[Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator
Is there an instruction sheet anywhere for simh to load the rsx OS I think it's rsx-11m to use with the pdp11 simh emulator? Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator
- Original Message - From: To: Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2015 1:38 PM Subject: Re: [Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator On Tue, 3 Mar 2015 13:28:27 -0500 Henry Bent wrote: The gunkies.org wiki has done a pretty fair job of consolidating installation procedures for various flavors of Unix. I believe the person behind the site is on this list, perhaps he would be willing to say whether or not he would be willing to host non-Unix SIMH instructions. Thank you. That's a good site. I don't know if it would be good for the purpose I mentioned but it's a good resource anyway. Thats what I am looking for. Simh instructions. I think from some kind of OS guide for RSXs one might be able to generate the system. Am I corerct did Dave Cutler with MS have anything to do with RSX ? Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Is Alpha AXP in SIMH's future?
- Original Message - From: To: Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2015 1:03 PM Subject: Re: [Simh] Is Alpha AXP in SIMH's future? On Tue, 3 Mar 2015 09:31:58 -0800 Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote: On Tuesday, March 3, 2015 at 9:26 AM, li...@openmailbox.org wrote: > Is an Alpha machine capable of running OpenVMS in SIMH's future? I know > there are several Alpha emulators for Linux and Windows but I really > like SIMH since it runs on pretty much any UNIX-like OS and doesn't > depend on having a 64-bit Linux installed. Well, Bob implemented the guts of an Alpha simulator and that code is in the current github repository. Bob classified this simulator in the 'beta' category, with beta, in this case, meaning 'a simulator which hasn't been finished'. If someone has the ability and interest to get this simulator fully working, I'll be here to support those activities. I wish I could help but sadly I can't since C and I don't get along. Thanks for the update. C's been rough to me too. But I keep trying. It and 16 bit assembly I will eventually master :) Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator
- Original Message - From: "Vorländer, Martin" To: Cc: "Bill Cunningham" Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2015 2:39 AM Subject: Re: [Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator Am 03.03.2015 um 04:29 schrieb Bill Cunningham : Is there an instruction sheet anywhere for simh to load the rsx OS I think it's rsx-11m to use with the pdp11 simh emulator? I once found http://home.earthlink.net/~n1be/pdp11/PDP11.html but haven’t yet had the time to try and follow the instructions. That's what I'm looking for. But how does one set up the pdp11 with simh. I think there's the best pdp11 emulator. Of course there are others. Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator
- Original Message - From: "Sergey Oboguev" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2015 3:31 PM Subject: Re: [Simh] Getting rsxs to run on the pdp11 emulator There is a couple of publicly accessible system running RSX-11M+. *** The first one I know of is located in Novosibirsk and runs RSX-11M-PLUS V4.6 BL87. Some days it is executed by SimH, other days by Ersatz-11. To access, telnet rsx.pdp-11.org.ru That russian site is very nice Then log in as HEL GUEST/ (note the slash before empty password field) Web page (in Russian): http://pdp-11.org.ru/~form/ctakah.html To get an account or for other inquiries contact supp...@pdp-11.org.ru. Login screen reports the date as 4-MAR-15, so the system must be Y2K aware at least to the extent of "mostly running". *** Another one is hosted in IL, but the owner seems to be in MA. http://www.dbit.com telnet rsx.dbit.com This one I can't quite get to. Specifically, if you want to plug your old dusty Unibus or Q-bus card into a PC, knock there. ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Regarding "Cutler THE father of VMS" myth
- Original Message - From: "Johnny Billquist" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2015 2:20 PM Subject: Re: [Simh] Regarding "Cutler THE father of VMS" myth On 2015-03-04 20:18, Bill Cunningham wrote: - Original Message - From: To: "SIMH" Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2015 7:45 AM Subject: Re: [Simh] Regarding "Cutler THE father of VMS" myth Incredible post! This list is worth following for the scope of information alone, even if you never run SIMH... On Tue, 3 Mar 2015 17:28:25 -0800 Sergey Oboguev wrote: Since the topic of "Cutler the Demiurg of VMS" comes up once in a while here and there... [fantastic post deleted for brevity] This sounds to me that Cutler and maye RSX was about the same time that Ritchie and Thompson also got Unix together. And I guess it was 5 years later that Kildall put CP/M together. And the 8" diskette came together. Actually, Ritchie and Thompson did Unix before Cutler did RSX. But Cutler didn't design RSX, he just reimplemented it. The early versions of RSX are contemporary with Unix, yes. Johnny Well you would know. But I've always heard Dave Cutler given full credit for RSX. I know he designed NTFS. Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Regarding "Cutler THE father of VMS" myth
- Original Message - From: To: "SIMH" Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2015 7:45 AM Subject: Re: [Simh] Regarding "Cutler THE father of VMS" myth Incredible post! This list is worth following for the scope of information alone, even if you never run SIMH... On Tue, 3 Mar 2015 17:28:25 -0800 Sergey Oboguev wrote: Since the topic of "Cutler the Demiurg of VMS" comes up once in a while here and there... [fantastic post deleted for brevity] This sounds to me that Cutler and maye RSX was about the same time that Ritchie and Thompson also got Unix together. And I guess it was 5 years later that Kildall put CP/M together. And the 8" diskette came together. Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Regarding "Cutler THE father of VMS" myth
- Original Message - From: "Sergey Oboguev" To: "Bill Cunningham" ; Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2015 2:47 PM Subject: Re: [Simh] Regarding "Cutler THE father of VMS" myth From: Bill Cunningham I've always heard Dave Cutler given full credit for RSX. I know he designed NTFS. If you imply NT file system, then the history of NTFS development is described at some length in the "Showstopper". According to this description NTFS was one of the aspects of NT Cutler did not partake in. NTFS had other developers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTFS#Developers I apologize. It seems I have been told all kinds of wrong things. Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Regarding "Cutler THE father of VMS" myth
- Original Message - From: "Clem Cole" To: "Johnny Billquist" Cc: "SIMH" Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2015 3:16 PM Subject: Re: [Simh] Regarding "Cutler THE father of VMS" myth Hmm since this has deteriorated into stories and history of Dave and what he did. I'll add one of mine and what I know. Apologies to this group ahead of time if you do not, but I think many of you might find it amusing if not interesting. I was under the impression Culter built something similar to RSX for the PDP-10 pre-DEC (for DuPont). At least that is what guys like Fossil, Clark D'Elia who had worked with Dave on RSX, Paul Cantrell who had worked on VMS's file systems and Tom Kent on the terminal system had always said to me. I'm pretty sure it was the DEC sales guys that introduced him to the engineering teams and eventually he went to work for Roger in the "VAX SW" team. I've never been completely sure of the path, I think Dave came late to RSX proper, although I thought he had a heavy hand in the "11M" implementation. I can say, in the early 1980s, I first met him at a bar in Littleton Ma (the old "Maui ??something??" - which is now the site of the YankeeZee River Restaurant) in Littleton, MA.Clark knew I had programmed on VAX Serial #1 under VMS and done the TCP/IP work so was pretty familiar with the systems and even Dave's C compiler, but prefered UNIX and "Ritchie C." Dave and I knew of each other and had actually exchanged emails previously but have never met in person before that night. Clark wanted us to meet, so he arrange for some of the VMS guys to getgether and dragged me along when Cutler who was at the time at DEC west working on what would later become Mica and had come east at that point for some mtg in Maynard WRT uVax IIRC. Dave Cane (Mr. VAX 750), heard the meeting was going to happen and walked into Roger's office, who was later reported by I think it was Janet Egan as having to have replied: "Oh sh*t one of them is going to tear a new a*shole into the other." Anyway, we all ended up at the bar and Clark tried to trying to start a food fight by turning to Dave and introduced me with the words: "Dave meet Clem. He's one of the old UNIX guys and he thinks all the SW DEC built in the last few years sucks." But Fossil then turned to Dave and said "When I hired you I had a fiery red beard [he turned grey in the mid-70s], and then turned to me and said and after you I went bald." Truth is we got along fine that night and would each buy the other a beer or two. In fact, Dave and I would work together a few years later on NT-OS/2 uKernel when he was at MSFT and I was at NCR. But that evening, I would not grant him two design issues with VMS - using assembler instead of BLISS [DC hates BLISS] and the file naming conventions [which he defended as being required to be compatible with RSX and I replied but he wasn't]; and he would not give into the fact the UNIX had a command system that was in his words "random" and "unclean" in the handling of things like errors [I understand but accept it as a cost of that's what happens when you have a lot of different developers as opposed to small controlled team and in return you get a lot of useful work from a lot of people]. The truth is we both respected the work the other had done and understand why both systems were successful and useful and I think Clark was disappointed it did not become a shouting match. As for NT, Dave definitely lead Mica, which begat NT-OS/2 @ MSFT. Windows was spliced into what would become NT-Windows by the time it became a product. But Dave's team was responsible for uKernel portion and he will tell you he was influenced by CMU's Mach and what had made UNIX successful. When it was still Mica, the idea was to have two user mode API's, one being VMS and one being UNIX with the new ukernel being coming between them. Clem That is indeed a wonderful story. So Cutler didn't "hate" Unix like I have alawys heard then? Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] rsx not working
I used the rsx files from this site. http://home.earthlink.net/~n1be/pdp11/PDP11.html And compiled a pdp11 simh binary. I ran in linux... ./pdp11 sim.ini Which as a copy of the file on that page. I didn't copy run.sh the shell script. When I tried to boot either of the tapes the system told me it was searching for a telnet connection and always times out. IS there something wrong here? Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] RSX problem
Oh I see now. I thought this was a console simulation. Well it would help if I installed xterm. So I installed the Basic Desktop group for fedora. It looks like it might want gnome too. I have more to install. Does anyone who happens to know, I'm not asking anyone to go looking for stuff that's my job. Exactly what fedora package groups I might need for this simulation. Like I say if not, I'll find something. Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] RSX problem
- Original Message - From: "Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm" To: "Bill Cunningham" ; Sent: Friday, March 06, 2015 8:14 PM Subject: RE: [Simh] RSX problem On Saturday, March 06, 2015 at 5:02 PM, Bill Cunningham wrote: Oh I see now. I thought this was a console simulation. Well it would help if I installed xterm. So I installed the Basic Desktop group for fedora. It looks like it might want gnome too. I have more to install. Does anyone who happens to know, I'm not asking anyone to go looking for stuff that's my job. Exactly what fedora package groups I might need for this simulation. Like I say if not, I'll find something. As I said, you can ignore the steps which aren't working and merely create a new terminal window and telnet to port 1 on the localhost. OK I think I might understand now. Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] rsx problem
Ok I am still officially duped. But here is a copy of the log file simh created. Bill console.log Description: Binary data ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] rsx problem
- Original Message - From: "Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm" To: "Bill Cunningham" Cc: Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2015 12:12 AM Subject: Re: [Simh] rsx problem Use the original config file. Notice that the last useful lines in the file are the attempt to start the separate terminal window followed by echo command giving instructions. Since the terminal window isn't start automatically, you should perform the suggested telnet command from another window manually BEFORE you follow the instructions about entering a boot command Seems like I need to add frame buffer and windowing support as well as a windowing system to my host system. Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] rsx problem
- Original Message - From: "Kevin Monceaux" To: Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2015 2:14 PM Subject: Re: [Simh] rsx problem Bill, On Sat, Mar 07, 2015 at 01:51:56PM -0500, Bill Cunningham wrote: - Original Message - From: "Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm" Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2015 12:12 AM Subject: Re: [Simh] rsx problem > Since the terminal window isn't start automatically, you should perform > the suggested telnet command from another window manually BEFORE you > follow the instructions about entering a boot command Seems like I need to add frame buffer and windowing support as well as a windowing system to my host system. No, telnet doesn't need any of that. Just replace "another window" in the advice above with "another shell." After you've started SIMH go to wherever you can find another command prompt on your system and perform the suggested telnet command before entering a boot command. If you're starting SIMH at a Linux virtual console you could use a second virtual console to perform the telnet command. Or you could use something like GNU screen. I am not understand ing something. I will study that script. I added gnome-desktop. It's fine and as you point out. nothing changes. There is a shell script on the page I looked at that I didn't copy maybe I need that. Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] rsx problem
- Original Message - From: "Johnny Billquist" To: Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2015 6:23 PM Subject: Re: [Simh] rsx problem On 2015-03-07 19:51, Bill Cunningham wrote: - Original Message - From: "Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm" To: "Bill Cunningham" Cc: Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2015 12:12 AM Subject: Re: [Simh] rsx problem Use the original config file. Notice that the last useful lines in the file are the attempt to start the separate terminal window followed by echo command giving instructions. Since the terminal window isn't start automatically, you should perform the suggested telnet command from another window manually BEFORE you follow the instructions about entering a boot command Seems like I need to add frame buffer and windowing support as well as a windowing system to my host system. How about just not starting the console on a telnet port? Two rp06 "tapes" and one rl01 file is made. I think since they're generated. Can't someone just set and attach them. I am not sure how to boot them. One has user and one sys in the filename. Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] simh
Are there any docs about the way simh is constructed? Is it an API? I know it emulates CPUs but what else? Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] simh
- Original Message - From: To: Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2015 6:55 PM Subject: Re: [Simh] simh * On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 07:41:30PM -0500, Bill Cunningham wrote: Are there any docs about the way simh is constructed? Is it an API? I know it emulates CPUs but what else? There sure are. If you're looking for the technical nitty-gritty, you can find a document titled "Writing a Simulator for the SIMH System" on GitHub here: https://github.com/simh/simh/blob/master/doc/simh.doc It's in Microsoft Word format. I was unable to find a PDF version of the DOC, so I've exported one here, temporarily: http://www.loomcom.com/junk/simh.pdf That one above hit the spot. Thanks. Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] rsx-11 rk tapes
Can anyone give me a tip on how to boot from simh two rk tapes I found that have rsx-11m v3.2 on them. They were in the sme directory as the tapes on this page http://home.earthlink.net/~n1be/pdp11/PDP11.html But those disks I don't think I'm ever going to get going so I thought I'd try these two rk tapes. But there's no instructions I can find to use them with simh's pdp11 simulator. Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] rsx11m-v3.2
I am going to try once again with simh's pdp 11/70 setting generating the rsx11m-v3.2. From this page I mentioned before. http://home.earthlink.net/~n1be/pdp11/PDP11.html I was about 10 yo in 1979 so I don't remember these machines. But the pics I see they looked like beauties to behold. So does anyone with any experience in this want to give me any tips? I am going to follow directions from this page as far as I can understand. Thanks, Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] rsx11m-v3.2
- Original Message - From: "Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm" Hi Bill, Your previous efforts were tangled up with the question of the platform you were using and the configuration of that platform. Simh will run on essentially all modern OS platforms, but the example you've pointed at was a Linux Desktop system (I.e. one with a GUI display environment configured running the X-Window system). Start from that and follow the directions in your recipe. Well I have the sim.ini file copied from the page and it's the run.sh script that I don't know what to do with. I can't run it from simh. That what confused me before. Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] rsx-11M-v3.2
I find the part of the page that involves "simh setup" confusing. it mentions a config file. I know where no config file is. It looks like the gzip'd files are above a directory called "X". then run.sh shell script is run. The simh varialbe will need changed to the parth to the pdp11 simh emulator. I'll see what I can get done. Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] rx8e tapes and pdp8s
I have two os8 files that have the extension rx01. So I am assuming they are rx8e floppies. I have been able to successfully attack the first file to rx. But the second file I can't remember if it's unit or device not available. But these are the files if anyone is familiar with them. os8_v3d_bin_X.rx01 // Where the X is is 1 and 2 I can only get 1 to load. How do I load both. Is this the way the OS8 can from the "factory"? Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] os8/pdp8
- Original Message - From: frederic fournis To: bill...@suddenlink.net Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2015 1:53 PM Subject: os8/pdp8 Hi, My config file is the following: att rx0 os8_rx.dsk att rx1 os8f4_rx.ok att rk0 advent.rk05 boot rx0 at the prompt: dir RXA0: dir RXA1: dir RKA0: I hope it helped you. have a good day Frederic What are the dir RX's mean? Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] buses
Were the different buses like the ominibus and the unibus very much different? And how do they realte to today's buses? Would they be and address or system bus? Bill Thanks ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] buses
- Original Message - From: Bill Cunningham To: simh@trailing-edge.com Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2015 6:22 PM Subject: [Simh] buses Were the different buses like the ominibus and the unibus very much different? And how do they realte relate to today's buses? Would they be and address or system bus? Bill Thanks Sorry for the typo. ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] pdp11 and vax network
Is it possible anymore to compile the emulators without networking support naymore. Or is that choice gone. I noticed at compile time there's a lot of dynamic libraries here being linked in at compile time. Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] pdp11 and vax correction
Sorry I guess that would be static libraries. posix threading, the C math library of course. But that was always there. Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] pdp11 and vax network
I'm using old OE so I will go ahead and top post this. I don't know if the simh group has rules against top posting or not. I am learning the pcap library so yes I always have the development libraries there. Not just runtime in my linux system. My goal is a little hazy right now. I would like to learn more about the simh simulator API if it's called that. But no real goal there yet. As too simulating something. I would like to compile, like the old version allowed -DUSE_NETWORK=0 I think was the define at compile time. I guess I liked the choice. I never really go online with vax or pdp11 much anyway. HTH Bill - Original Message - From: Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm To: Bill Cunningham ; simh@trailing-edge.com Sent: Friday, June 26, 2015 12:34 AM Subject: RE: [Simh] pdp11 and vax network Hi Bill, Anything is possible, however, what is the real goal behind your question? If your build environment doesn't have the necessary components to support network activities, then you can't build binaries with network support. The makefile looks around for components which are available on the build system and the binaries are built which will work on that system. Even if libpcap is available on the build system, the binaries dynamically load libpcap at runtime so binaries built on a system with the necessary pieces will actually run on a different host of the same platform type and provide libpcap networking support if the executing system has libpcap available and not if it isn't available. Please explain what you are trying to achieve. Thanks. -Mark From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Bill Cunningham Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2015 8:08 PM To: simh@trailing-edge.com Subject: [Simh] pdp11 and vax network Is it possible anymore to compile the emulators without networking support naymore. Or is that choice gone. I noticed at compile time there's a lot of dynamic libraries here being linked in at compile time. Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] TU58 device for PDP-11s
- Original Message - From: Hans-Ulrich Hölscher To: simh@trailing-edge.com Sent: Friday, June 26, 2015 12:56 PM Subject: [Simh] TU58 device for PDP-11s Am I right that there is currently no TU58 device available for the PDP-11 series of computers? If so, would someone be so kind as to implement it? Thanks in advance to all programmers who ponder on evetually doing it! Regards, Ulli I don't know about simh, but there are several simulators out there. There is something for linux too. But it sounds like a worthy cause. Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] IO ports 8 bit bidirectional like in C64
I am looking at this page... http://www.mikroe.com/chapters/view/4/chapter-3-i-o-ports/ Now would this be similar or what the C64 MOS processor would be like? The specs I got ahold of says "8 bit bidirectional IO ports" I don't know who is familiar with the commodore 64s. But it's something to think about. I was also ready the APIs IO functions in simh.doc. One thing in C I haven't got to is this idea of function return types being in parenthesis. What's that for? I have seen it several times. Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] IO functions
void (*sim_vm_init) (void) Well what is this. The function returns nothing and takes nothing right? What's the *sim_VM_init in parenthesis referring too? That's my question. ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] The genius of C declarations
- Original Message - From: Robert Armstrong To: simh@trailing-edge.com Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 6:31 PM Subject: Re: [Simh] The genius of C declarations Everybody does know about the cdecl utility, right? No I have never heard of it. But there's a lot of coding I haven't done, including this type of thing. I will look for it in my linux distro. I think I am understanding the "function pointer" now. Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] cdecl
I guess cdecl was removed from my distro of linux; fedora because of copyright concerns. I have read the project was long dead. ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] cdecl
The copy I found wanted lex and yacc. Well evidently byacc was acceptable. Lex is from unix of course so I didn't have the dependancies to compile the C program. I am not sure if it would accept flex or not. - Original Message - From: R P Herrold To: Bill Cunningham Cc: simh@trailing-edge.com Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 11:19 AM Subject: cdecl On Mon, 29 Jun 2015, Bill Cunningham wrote: > I guess cdecl was removed from my distro of linux; > fedora because of copyright concerns. I have read the > project was long dead. There is less there than meets the eye, but it was formerly in CentOS, and PUIAS the SRPM rebuilds trivially on C 6 -- I placed a copy, after rebuild, out at: ftp://ftp.owlriver.com/pub/local/ORC/cdecl/ -- Russ herrold -- -- end == .-- -... ---.. ... -.- -.-- Copyright (C) 2015 R P Herrold herr...@owlriver.com My words are not deathless prose, but they are mine.___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] C64 word size
Ok anyone know the C64 word size of memory? The 6510 was 8 bit and there was 16 bit addressability. I guess that would be a "16 bit address bus"; if they had that back then. It had 64kb of ram.___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] C64 and C128
Did the C64 not run CP/M? I know the 128 did. It had a 8502 processor and Z80A processor I believe. One was for CP/M. What good is a commodore machine without CP/M ;) Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] C64 and C128
I remember those floppy drives where big and heavy. I never had cp/m or a c128. I am reading that an 8502 and Z80A (which I can't find anything on) was inside. The Z80A was about 4 MHz. The Z80A word size I do not know. It was of course an 8 bit with a 16 bit address bus I believe. Now which is "memory word" size? - Original Message - From: Kevin Handy To: Bill Cunningham Cc: simh@trailing-edge.com Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 7:46 PM Subject: Re: [Simh] C64 and C128 The C64 did not run cp/m out of the box, because it did not have any kind of Intel 8080 based processor. You could buy a cartridge (iirc) that would allow you to run cp/m, but it was basically bolting a cp/m machine onto the side of the C64. The C128 had both the C64 processor, and a Z80 processor built in, and it could run cp/m. The floppy drive speed was really lousy though (300 baud serial bus iirc). On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 5:21 PM, Bill Cunningham wrote: Did the C64 not run CP/M? I know the 128 did. It had a 8502 processor and Z80A processor I believe. One was for CP/M. What good is a commodore machine without CP/M ;) Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] C64 and C128
- Original Message - From: Johnny Billquist To: simh@trailing-edge.com Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 10:07 PM Subject: Re: [Simh] C64 and C128 On 2015-07-01 01:56, Bill Cunningham wrote: > I remember those floppy drives where big and heavy. I never had cp/m or > a c128. I am reading that an 8502 and Z80A (which I can't find anything > on) was inside. The Z80A was about 4 MHz. The Z80A word size I do not > know. It was of course an 8 bit with a 16 bit address bus I believe. Now > which is "memory word" size? You are asking very weird questions. What do you mean by "word size"? Johnny I read in some specs either for 6502 or Z80A the term "memory word size". These are all 8 bit cpus I know that but they have different sized address buses. Rich straightened me out. The term "memory" was throwing me off. I these cases Word Size would be 8 bit. Like todays 64 bit machines. Word size is now considered "64" on 64 bit processors. Although the 6502 had 8 bit registers except maybe for one, and a 16 bit address bus. They are 8 bit "word" sized. Under control now. Thanks though. ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] C64 and C128
I think maybe the simh doc too might have confused me a bit. 3.1.3 talks about "word length, not addressability" and that kind of confused me. I was looking into the PDPs and then commodore machines that ran CP/M which I guess was C128. I never had one. C64s and TRS-80 CoCos but not C128. So I began wondering "word size?" Which to me was a processor's register size. Not various system bus sizes. Addressability made me think of the address bus size and that varied. Well I wondered about a simh VM for the C128 that would use CP/M 2 or 3. Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] bits and bites
Is that F-831F ? It's all I can find from May 65. - Original Message - From: Jack Rubin To: simh@trailing-edge.com Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2015 12:14 PM Subject: [Simh] bits and bites Just to add to the general hilarity, the PDP-8 Interface Manual (DEC publication F-83, May, 1965, page 6) states that "The PDP-8 ... collects and distributes data in 12 bit bites." The manual is on bitsavers. Jack ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] simh-V3.8-1
The only old copy of simh I was able to get was the 3.8-1 version and it involves "DECnet". Does anyone know anything about a DECnet for simh or on the internet anywhere? Why is this simh called that? Is it a specialized version by another party other than the maintainer? Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] Booting the vax750 simulator
[...] This kernel I built was only microvax II and VAX-11/750 so it won't directly boot on a 11/780 nor a VAX8600. But if I add a line CPU "VAX780" and CPU "VAX8600" it boots on both. But still no-go on vax750. I even tried to remove some more optional features in the kernel config but no difference. Still boot on vax780, microvax2 and vax8600 simulator though. Here is the image I tried : https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96935524/Datormusuem/VAX11-750/ultrix3.dsk [...] I'm getting a dead link here. Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] DEC stuff and simh
Will the software on this page run on simh? Is TU-58 supported? IF not can something else be used? This looks like some pretty good stuff. Bill http://iamvirtual.ca/VAX11/VAX-11-software.html___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] simh API
I am not quite sure if I have ask this, or something similar before. If so please forgive me. Is there a simh tutorial as an API ? There is simh_doc.doc but it is kind of limited in scope. If someone were interested in using the API as a simulator for a C128's 650x processor, how would they begin? If anyone has done anything like this. I have brought up the CBM computers before. Is there an API tutorial? Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] simh API
I have problems with winvice. I'm not sure the trouble is. I do suppose you have a point there. I never thought about graphics but some cli. But I'm not sure how much of CBM was cli. I was interested in something to use CP/Ms. But I understand what you are trying to say and perhaps you are right. Thanks for the comment. Message - From: pigi To: simh@trailing-edge.com Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 1:44 PM Subject: Re: [Simh] simh API Il 14/07/2015 19:25, Bill Cunningham ha scritto: > I am not quite sure if I have ask this, or something similar before. If so please forgive me. Is there a simh tutorial as an API ? There is simh_doc.doc but it is kind of limited in scope. If someone were interested in using the API as a simulator for a C128's 650x processor, how would they begin? If anyone has done anything like this. > > I have brought up the CBM computers before. Is there an API tutorial? sir, I must point to you that, AFAIK the CBM machines's peculiarities isn't easy to adapt to the general structure of SIMH, even with an graphic API for SIMH (a WIP, as I understand), and, OTOH, there's already a very fine and mature emulator/simulator for the CBM machines: > http://vice-emu.sourceforge.net/ Best regards from Italy, dott. Piergiorgio. ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] rsx11m46.tpc and simh
I have some instructions on how to use the pdp11 simulator for the mentioned in the subject line. set cpu 11/45 set cpu 256k set cpu idle SET RL enable set RL0 RL02 set RL1 RL02 SET RP ENABLE SET RP0 RP06 ATTACH RP0 RP06.000 SET RP1 RP06 ;ATTACH RP1 RP06.001 SET TS ENABLE SET TS0 FORMAT=TPC SET TS0 LOCKED SET DZ ENABLE SET DZ LINES=8 ATTACH -am DZ 11023 I am not sure the enableds are needed here. And a part additional is, at ts0 rsx11m46.tpc boot ts0 I am getting error codes. Does anyone happen to know simh well enough to get simh pdp11 to boot this file? Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] rsx11m46.tpc and simh
http://ancientbits.blogspot.com/2012/07/installing-rsx-11m-46-from-scratch-part.html I used those links and that blog. - Original Message - From: Mark Pizzolato To: Bill Cunningham ; simh@trailing-edge.com Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2015 4:35 PM Subject: RE: [Simh] rsx11m46.tpc and simh Hi Bill, Please provide: 1) The exact place where you picked up the tape image you are trying to boot from 2) The exact output produced when you run the simulator with the provided configuration Thanks - Mark From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Bill Cunningham Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2015 11:37 AM To: simh@trailing-edge.com Subject: [Simh] rsx11m46.tpc and simh I have some instructions on how to use the pdp11 simulator for the mentioned in the subject line. set cpu 11/45 set cpu 256k set cpu idle SET RL enable set RL0 RL02 set RL1 RL02 SET RP ENABLE SET RP0 RP06 ATTACH RP0 RP06.000 SET RP1 RP06 ;ATTACH RP1 RP06.001 SET TS ENABLE SET TS0 FORMAT=TPC SET TS0 LOCKED SET DZ ENABLE SET DZ LINES=8 ATTACH -am DZ 11023 I am not sure the enableds are needed here. And a part additional is, at ts0 rsx11m46.tpc boot ts0 I am getting error codes. Does anyone happen to know simh well enough to get simh pdp11 to boot this file? Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] error
After using shutdown on my virtual VMS, it dropped to the simh prompt and had this error. Infinite loop, PC833DC8D3 (BRB ...) and the same hex number were the ... is. What does that mean? Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] vax simh and loading file
I thought there were directions for this but I can't find them now. I have a file I wish to put into openvms. I am using the vax simulator. It contains a bit of license information. Is there a way through simh that this file can be passed into a loaded openvms image? Maybe I was looking at an emulator other than vax. Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] vax simh and loading file
- Original Message - From: Johnny Billquist To: Bill Cunningham Sent: Friday, February 12, 2016 4:42 PM Subject: Re: [Simh] vax simh and loading file On 2016-02-12 22:40, Bill Cunningham wrote: > Hum. I am running in console mode. Cut and paste from one terminal > window to another? I will have to load some things. That's ok, but I was > wondering if simh was able to do this. I was just giving a suggestion. :-) I'm not aware of any really simple way of transporting bytes across the barrier. I can think of various more or less tricky ways, but no really simple ones. Sure I understand. I had in mind simh could do this though. Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] vax simh and loading file
Old posts to this list from 2014 say somethings but the links are dead. I don't know if simh has changed since then or not. MAC address and xq0 device will need set up and a file can be attached in simh somehow. Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] vax simh and loading file
I see. Forgive me but I don't know if vms has ftp or not. I'm really starting out with it. I found some pages for setting up phase iv but need to get the PAKs into openvms via simh. - Original Message - From: Bill Deegan To: Bill Cunningham Sent: Friday, February 12, 2016 6:06 PM Subject: Re: [Simh] vax simh and loading file Was thinking you could run ftp client inside vms and pull from a ftp server you push file to.. On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 2:58 PM, Bill Cunningham wrote: I'm not sure. There's telnet that is in simh too. One might be able to do something there. I tried copy and paste with X servers and it was a horror story. Couldn't copy anything. How would you ftp it into vax then vms? Or telnet it there if possible. Bill - Original Message - From: Bill Deegan To: Bill Cunningham Cc: simh@trailing-edge.com Sent: Friday, February 12, 2016 5:16 PM Subject: Re: [Simh] vax simh and loading file Can't ftp it into the vax? On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Bill Cunningham wrote: - Original Message - From: Johnny Billquist To: Bill Cunningham Sent: Friday, February 12, 2016 4:42 PM Subject: Re: [Simh] vax simh and loading file On 2016-02-12 22:40, Bill Cunningham wrote: > Hum. I am running in console mode. Cut and paste from one terminal > window to another? I will have to load some things. That's ok, but I was > wondering if simh was able to do this. I was just giving a suggestion. :-) I'm not aware of any really simple way of transporting bytes across the barrier. I can think of various more or less tricky ways, but no really simple ones. Sure I understand. I had in mind simh could do this though. Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] vax simh and loading file
Didn't work for me. Not at all. Just don't know what I'm doing probably with
Xservers. Well I see openvms does indeed have ftp. Yeah I think your idea could
work. But is a file I have called "dec.com" I could use @dec.com in vms to run
attachable somehow to simh. I believe it is.
Bill
- Original Message -
From: Bill Deegan
To: Bill Cunningham
Cc: simh@trailing-edge.com
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2016 6:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Simh] vax simh and loading file
For the PAKs I just copy/pasted to get things going. That worked fine.
Bring it up in a text editor on host machine, select all. Then in your simh
window you should be ok to paste.
On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 3:11 PM, Bill Cunningham
wrote:
I see. Forgive me but I don't know if vms has ftp or not. I'm really
starting out with it. I found some pages for setting up phase iv but need to
get the PAKs into openvms via simh.
- Original Message -
From: Bill Deegan
To: Bill Cunningham
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2016 6:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Simh] vax simh and loading file
Was thinking you could run ftp client inside vms and pull from a ftp
server you push file to..
On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 2:58 PM, Bill Cunningham
wrote:
I'm not sure. There's telnet that is in simh too. One might be able to
do something there. I tried copy and paste with X servers and it was a horror
story. Couldn't copy anything. How would you ftp it into vax then vms? Or
telnet it there if possible.
Bill
- Original Message -
From: Bill Deegan
To: Bill Cunningham
Cc: simh@trailing-edge.com
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2016 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Simh] vax simh and loading file
Can't ftp it into the vax?
On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Bill Cunningham
wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Johnny Billquist
To: Bill Cunningham
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2016 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Simh] vax simh and loading file
On 2016-02-12 22:40, Bill Cunningham wrote:
> Hum. I am running in console mode. Cut and paste from one
terminal
> window to another? I will have to load some things. That's ok,
but I was
> wondering if simh was able to do this.
I was just giving a suggestion. :-)
I'm not aware of any really simple way of transporting bytes
across the
barrier. I can think of various more or less tricky ways, but no
really
simple ones.
Sure I understand. I had in mind simh could do this though.
Bill
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[Simh] vax simh and loading file
OK I have changed my linux by installing these programs. ckermit, gkermit and I installed the dnprogs which seems to work for me. It compiled with warnings but the compile didn't break. So I can use decnet on my linux now after some tinkering I'm sure. So what would be the easist way to get the PAK I have called dvnetend, or something like that into simh and vms. I appreciate the help. I'm getting closer. Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] vax simh and loading file
Wilm, Your suggestion on the simh list looks just like what I need. I use simh 3.9 and the vax has a cr device. I attached a file and everything is good. When I login to vms nothing understands job. I've tried job @sys$system:job and so on and can't get job or find it anywhere. The help list doesn't list a noprint qualifier but there is /keep and /name. Where is "job" that's what I can't seem to find out. This is from the list. " $JOB SYSTEM /NOPRINT /KEEP /NAME=WilmTest $PASSWORD xxx $! some ASCII text $ show time $EOJ"___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] vax simh and loading file
- Original Message - From: Wilm Boerhout To: simh@trailing-edge.com Sent: Monday, February 15, 2016 3:42 AM Subject: Re: [Simh] vax simh and loading file Exactly. The only thing that simh adds to this process is the "set cr reset" command to prompt the card reader (driver?). So on simh, the flow control would be: 1. get your "card deck" in a file on the host 2. boot simh with the cr device attached to said file 3. boot your VAX 4. log in, then CTRL/E out to the simh prompt, and issue "set cr reset" 5. issue "continue" to the simh prompt to resume the VAX 6. observe that your job has run, and the file (if not deleted, which is the default) is now a DCL file in your default login directory, default name is "INPBATCH.COM". Name may be overridden by the /NAME qualifier on the job card. /Wilm OK here's what I tried. Issuing "continue" in simg doesn't work. simh> "continue" just gives an error. ./vax lo -r ka655x.bin set cpu 64m set cpu idle=vms set rq0 ra92 at rq0 vms at nvr r set cr autoeof at -a cr list "name of licnese PAKs set cr translation=029 b cpu Then I use "b dua0" no problems login as system and enter password. No problems ^E simh> here I enter "set cr reset" and at simh> I enter "continue" and get an error. Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] vax simh and loading file
There is no inpsmb. simh 3.9 doesn't accept the "continue" option. - Original Message - From: Timothe Litt To: simh@trailing-edge.com Sent: Monday, February 15, 2016 3:33 PM Subject: Re: [Simh] vax simh and loading file you have to start a queue or manually run inpsmb On 15-Feb-16 14:53, Bill Cunningham wrote: - Original Message - From: Wilm Boerhout To: simh@trailing-edge.com Sent: Monday, February 15, 2016 3:42 AM Subject: Re: [Simh] vax simh and loading file Exactly. The only thing that simh adds to this process is the "set cr reset" command to prompt the card reader (driver?). So on simh, the flow control would be: 1. get your "card deck" in a file on the host 2. boot simh with the cr device attached to said file 3. boot your VAX 4. log in, then CTRL/E out to the simh prompt, and issue "set cr reset" 5. issue "continue" to the simh prompt to resume the VAX 6. observe that your job has run, and the file (if not deleted, which is the default) is now a DCL file in your default login directory, default name is "INPBATCH.COM". Name may be overridden by the /NAME qualifier on the job card. /Wilm OK here's what I tried. Issuing "continue" in simg doesn't work. simh> "continue" just gives an error. ./vax lo -r ka655x.bin set cpu 64m set cpu idle=vms set rq0 ra92 at rq0 vms at nvr r set cr autoeof at -a cr list "name of licnese PAKs set cr translation=029 b cpu Then I use "b dua0" no problems login as system and enter password. No problems ^E simh> here I enter "set cr reset" and at simh> I enter "continue" and get an error. Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh -- ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] loading file
To: Timothy Litt My OE isn't printing your emails for some reason, so I am having to read your posts of the list's archive. Dunno what's up. Thanks to all who have helped me. I have now in vms a file I saved as "lic.txt" I type "type lic.txt" and it prints out in in entirety. Now if I could direct that output to the license database. @sys$update:vmslicense.com asks all kinds of questions. Some of which are not included in my license. A bit confusing. Thanks again! Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] loading file
- Original Message - From: Timothe Litt To: simh@trailing-edge.com Sent: Monday, February 15, 2016 5:13 PM Subject: Re: [Simh] loading file Glad you've made progress. There is no 'y' in my name. So post the full recipe that worked for you so that future folks can find it. Type to the fields that your license doesn't contain. I post to the list as text-only. OE may insist on HTML. Haven't used it in years. Gave up on Outlook too. Thunderbird is a better client. And the price is right. In any case, it's better to post to the list so that everyone benefits. Yeah OE sucks sometimes but I'm not buying a windows OS. Thunderbird seemed complicated. i am probably just not used to it. I love firefox though. I followed your suggestions alloc cra0: set card_reader cra0:/029 copy cra0: lic.txt I am have a nice text file. Now to get it into the license registry. I guess the whole thing will have to go in for full access. VMS telnet and ftp may not work through a network connection with phase iv and my linux ethernet through simh. Because of license problems. I followed Wilm's advice with the simh setup. C worked but continue didn't. Is there a way you can recommend to load the PAKs into the license database? Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] license error
I successfully copied the license to vms as lic.com. Then a typed @lic.com. This is a logged result by simh. cut a bit. $ @lic.com %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first chara
[Simh] License File
- Original Message - From: Robert Thomas To: simh@trailing-edge.com Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 5:40 PM Subject: Re: [Simh] License File Rather than fight file transfers prior to installing licenses, use the following command: $ @SYS$UPDATE:VMSLICENSE The command procedure will guide one through the license data entry in the order and format as on the hardcopy license. The format for a command file is as below. The various options will differ based on the type of license. $ LICENSE REGISTER xx - /ISSUER=yyy - /AUTHORIZATION=zz - /PRODUCER= - /UNITS= - /OPTIONS=(cc) - /CHECKSUM=ddd $ LICENSE LOADxxx/LOG/PRODUCER=aa $! $ exit $! $! [End of File] The thing is I always get down to the checksum and enter it correctly and get an error that something isn't typed right. With every PAK I've tried so far. My hobbyist ID number is always the same, bu the checksum is always different. [...] ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] pdp11 and unix
When Ken Thompson coded UNIX it was in assembly. The first versions anyway before B/NB/C. Is there in existance pdp11 (45 or 70 ?) intterupt (vector) lists or IRQs and so, registers that shows how to code in assembly on a pdp11? I am sure simh does it. Isn't what the "dep" command is for? Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix
- Original Message - From: Clem Cole To: Bill Cunningham Cc: SIMH Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 9:22 PM Subject: Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 7:50 PM, Bill Cunningham wrote: When Ken Thompson coded UNIX it was in assembly. Correct... The first versions anyway before B/NB/C I do not think that is 100% correct. B and early UNIX sort of come about at the same time. B (and its pseudo model - BCPL) has only one data type (a word) and that works because UNIX was originally implemented on a word addressed machine. NB/C comes out when the Ken starts moving to the 11 which was byte addressed, as opposed to word addresses of it's predecessors. What model PDP was the first UNIX written on. All I know of s the PDP11. Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix
- Original Message - From: Johnny Billquist To: simh@trailing-edge.com Sent: Friday, February 26, 2016 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix On 2016-02-26 01:50, Bill Cunningham wrote: > When Ken Thompson coded UNIX it was in assembly. The first versions > anyway before B/NB/C. Is there in existance pdp11 (45 or 70 ?) intterupt > (vector) lists or IRQs and so, registers that shows how to code in > assembly on a pdp11? I am sure simh does it. Isn't what the "dep" > command is for? I'm not sure what you ask for. The first version of Unix was for a PDP-7, so any PDP-11 information is irrelevant. UNix was then ported to the PDP-11, and was still written in assembler. It was then rewritten in C, however, there are still parts that are written in assembler. Not everything can be done in C... I was not aware they started on a PDP7. What about inline assembly. That's kinda C, isn't it? Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix
I didn't know that B had been around so much. I then was /not/ designed for working with UNIX specifically? - Original Message - From: Clem Cole To: Eric Smith Cc: simh@trailing-edge.com Sent: Friday, February 26, 2016 7:24 PM Subject: Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 6:43 PM, Eric Smith wrote: It would be interesting to know how they went from B to C .. but once they had a higher level language (C .. well, higher level compared to the assembler), things would become much easier. Dennis described it all in one of his papers. NB was written in B. C morphed into being so as he said, there was never really a "C" compiler from scratch. At one point, they realized the language had diverged enough to call it something else. Also, as Doug has pointed out either here or on the TUHS list, there was an early parser in TMG - which I believe spit out B at that point. Yacc and Lex do not appear until later in the cycle. The point is that the kernel and the tools "matured" as time went on. At some point Dennis would collect up tools that people had and pick up the current state of the kernel and "release" was come out. So it was a ephemeral thing, not a big formal process we think of today with release candidates et al.The bad news for us trying to pick through the history, is that it means in some cases we really do not have an established date of references point. Warren has done yeoman's work to try to help establish such a timeline and probably has the most definitive track of what was what - but in some cases it was hazy and frankly the intermediate codes have been lost. Clem -- ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix
Or program in binary. Like originally. - Original Message - From: Paul Koning To: Clem Cole Cc: SIMH Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2016 2:01 PM Subject: Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix > On Feb 26, 2016, at 7:13 PM, Clem Cole wrote: > > > On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 6:28 PM, Nigel Williams wrote: > Perhaps not unusual for the 1960s but laborious none-the-less. > > Depends who you are. For grins look for the original Cray-1 "assembler" box. You'll discover there are no mnemonics like "add", "branch" - just octal codes. Seymor didn't need them. Obviously, to get an assembler you'd first have to bootstrap *that*, unless you could write a cross-assembler. And early assemblers weren't necessarily all that fancy. I've been reading some 1950s era computer descriptions, for machines without assemblers. Opcodes are simply written as op/addr so you'd remember, say, that 0 is add and 6 is store, and so forth. A machine introduced in Holland in 1958 -- the EL-X1 -- had a very bare-bones assembler, or slightly smart loader, depending on how you'd want to think about it. Just a few hundred instructions; it had opcodes like "0A" (add to A) or "6S" (store S register). And it had symbolic addresses, but you couldn't label individual locations, only "paragraphs" because symbols were only pairs of one of 13 letters, i.e., a max of 169 symbols per program. Still, with that primitive tool some large software was written, such as the world's first ALGOL compiler. It isn't really all that much harder than a modern assembler once you get used to the different look. paul ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix
- Original Message - From: Bill Cunningham To: Paul Koning ; s...@trailing-edge.com Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2016 2:36 PM Subject: Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix Well that's certainly before ICs I think that was in the 1950s and it was some early calculators that killed slide rules. What kind of "processor" were they using? I'm not so sure there was real HLL before Adm. Hopper. And no binary by Babbge. Do you have any links or anything from the '40s? Bill - Original Message - From: Paul Koning To: Bill Cunningham Cc: simh@trailing-edge.com Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2016 2:09 PM Subject: Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix > On Feb 27, 2016, at 2:06 PM, Bill Cunningham wrote: > > Or program in binary. Like originally. I'm not so sure about that. I have documents from as early as 1948 showing programming in machine language, though each of these use decimal numbers for the opcodes and addresses. While of course many machines were binary internally, I've never seen anyone actually code programs in binary. paul ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix
Thanks much. Yes I know you were speaking of assembly. I was just considering history. I've always heard binary was first. What that might mean IDK. And there was no evidence presented for that. - Original Message - From: Paul Koning To: SIMH Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2016 2:46 PM Subject: Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix > On Feb 27, 2016, at 2:36 PM, Bill Cunningham wrote: > > Well that's certainly before ICs I think that was in the 1950s and it was some early calculators that killed slide rules. What kind of "processor" were they using? I'm not so sure there was real HLL before Adm. Hopper. And no binary by Babbge. Do you have any links or anything from the '40s? HLL? I was talking about assembler... Anyway, I don't believe COBOL was the first HLL, though it certainly was fairly early. You can find writeups about Harvard Mark 4 in Bitsavers, and presumably other old stuff as well. My own comment was referring to documents about early Dutch computer work I've been looking at. For example this one: http://oai.cwi.nl/oai/asset/9603/9603A.pdf, "Principles of electronic computers: course February 1948". It mentions that, at time of writing, the only functioning electronic computer was ENIAC. (That may not be entirely accurate, considering possible classified machines, but it's certainly close.) It describes the key components of a computer, and gives an outline of what an instruction set might look like. No suggestion that the instruction set in question corresponds to any actual design, though. Unfortunately it's in Dutch. paul ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix
Calculators I'm thinking of are "HandHeld" and the IC by Jack Kilby. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Kilby 1976. The "year the slide rule died" They say. - Original Message - From: Johnny Billquist To: simh@trailing-edge.com Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2016 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix On 2016-02-27 20:46, Paul Koning wrote: > >> On Feb 27, 2016, at 2:36 PM, Bill Cunningham wrote: >> >> Well that's certainly before ICs I think that was in the 1950s and it was some early calculators that killed slide rules. What kind of "processor" were they using? I'm not so sure there was real HLL before Adm. Hopper. And no binary by Babbge. Do you have any links or anything from the '40s? > > HLL? I was talking about assembler... Anyway, I don't believe COBOL was the first HLL, though it certainly was fairly early. The first HLL ought to have been FORTRAN. Lisp might have been the second, but I'm not entirely sure. I'm not sure what kind of calculators Bill are thinking of. But until the early 70s, calculators were usually mechanical, or electromechanical things with cogwheels, and definitely worked in decimal. No processors in there... Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix
1967 was the first hand held. - Original Message - From: Johnny Billquist To: Bill Cunningham ; simh@trailing-edge.com Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2016 8:05 PM Subject: Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix Well, 1976 is a far cry from the 1950s... Johnny Bill Cunningham skrev: (27 februari 2016 23:59:06 CET) >Calculators I'm thinking of are "HandHeld" and the IC by Jack Kilby. > >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Kilby > >1976. The "year the slide rule died" They say. > - Original Message - > From: Johnny Billquist > To: simh@trailing-edge.com > Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2016 5:05 PM > Subject: Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix > > > On 2016-02-27 20:46, Paul Koning wrote: > > >>> On Feb 27, 2016, at 2:36 PM, Bill Cunningham > wrote: > >> >>> Well that's certainly before ICs I think that was in the 1950s and >it was some early calculators that killed slide rules. What kind of >"processor" were they using? I'm not so sure there was real HLL before >Adm. Hopper. And no binary by Babbge. Do you have any links or anything >from the '40s? > > >> HLL? I was talking about assembler... Anyway, I don't believe COBOL >was the first HLL, though it certainly was fairly early. > > The first HLL ought to have been FORTRAN. Lisp might have been the > second, but I'm not entirely sure. > > I'm not sure what kind of calculators Bill are thinking of. But until >the early 70s, calculators were usually mechanical, or >electromechanical > things with cogwheels, and definitely worked in decimal. > No processors in there... > > Johnny > > -- > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus > || on a psychedelic trip > email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books > pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol > ___ > Simh mailing list > Simh@trailing-edge.com > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh > > > >___ >Simh mailing list >Simh@trailing-edge.com >http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] programming in binary
https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/events/EDSAC99/simulators/ This is kind of interesting. - Original Message - From: dave porter To: simh@trailing-edge.com Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2016 3:07 PM Subject: Re: [Simh] programming in binary As I understand it. the EDSAC (the first or second, depending on how you counted, stored-program machine in production service) had an assembler/bootstrap (modern terminology, or course) program wired into a bank of uniselectors as the 'initial orders'. This allowed for single-character instruction mnemonics and decimal storage addresses. 'A' for 'add' seems clear enough to me, but 'V' for multiply-and-add is less so. So, we apparently had assemblers from more-or-less the very beginning. ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] how do settings help simh
When I load a file with simh if I'm using the vax simulator for example. I use these settings: set nvr filename set cpu 64m set cpu idle=vms specifically the third for vms. Now it seems these are not really needed to me. How does it help the simulator or the simulation? Is it easier for it to use or view files? I really myself don't notice much. ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Disk info request
- Original Message - From: Paul Koning To: Johnny Billquist Cc: simh@trailing-edge.com Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2016 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [Simh] Disk info request I long ago forgot the details, but a look at the MSCP Basic Functions manual (on Bitsavers in the uda50 directory) is helpful. See page 4-25 and the next couple. Ok well sorry to interrupt, but where is a "UDA50" directory on bitsavers. I am not finding it. Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Disk info request
- Original Message - From: Paul Koning To: Bill Cunningham Cc: simh@trailing-edge.com Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2016 11:44 AM Subject: Re: [Simh] Disk info request > On Mar 9, 2016, at 11:41 AM, Bill Cunningham wrote: > > >> - Original Message - >> From: Paul Koning >> To: Johnny Billquist >> Cc: simh@trailing-edge.com >> Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2016 11:12 AM >> Subject: Re: [Simh] Disk info request >> >> >> I long ago forgot the details, but a look at the MSCP Basic Functions manual (on Bitsavers in the uda50 directory) is helpful. See page 4-25 and the next couple. >> >> Ok well sorry to interrupt, but where is a "UDA50" directory on bitsavers. I am not finding it. Sorry, I should have been more explicit. pdf/dec/disc/uda50/ The specific document is pdf/dec/disc/uda50/AA-L619A-TK_MSCP_BasicDiscFnsV1.2_Apr82.pdf paul OK great thanks. And it's Chapter 4.11 that your looking at right? Nice. LBA and physical mapping. Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] networking support
Are there any plans by the developers and maintainers to add networking support to any of the simulators that do not have it? AFAIK pdp11 and vax are the only two that have networking support. Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] [SimH] Networking support
What I meant was that I remember on early PCs using an rs232-c line for using the old BBSes and compuserve before it was an ISP. 10 cents a minute. I had several modems 300, 1200 and 2400 baud modems. These even older machines may have had hookups within a company. Even one building connecting 5 or so machines. Serial would've worked fine. And was what was used. I was thinking with maybe 4-5 PDP8s a company would use some kind of networking. Perhaps not back then. I was only aware of pdp11 and vax being "network possible". I guess I was wrong. Bill - Original Message - From: Clem Cole To: Anders Magnusson Cc: SIMH ; Bob Supnik Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2016 2:24 PM Subject: Re: [Simh] [SimH] Networking support On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 12:25 PM, Anders Magnusson wrote: DG-UX or MV/UX? Which was the rewrite of System V ?? i.e. System V cmd system, but internally developed System V SMP kernel -- I want to say DG-UX maybe; but I'd been a long time and many beers ago - I've forgotten the name. I remember it was a very clean UNIX implementation. Nice locking structure, easy to debug, etc... Locus was working on different projects with Ultrix, Tru64, VMS, AIX, SunOS, Solaris, HP-UX, Apollo, DG's UX, some work for Pr1me, ISC's 386/ix, Intel's 386 port, SVR4 for the AT&T/UI guys, and Intel's Paragon at the same time. At one point, I had the OS release schedules for HP, DEC and Sun all pasted on the wall behind my desk. I used to say LCC got to see everyone's dirty laundry in those days. As I said, I do remember the DG Unix re-implementation was very easy to work on (I will not say which one we cursed the most). The DG ethernet card has a 82586 on board. As I said, many beers ago. I'm undoubtedly mixed up a couple of the systems, since we had so many we worked with in those days. I remember the AMD chip was a lot easier to program than the Intel device. That said, I suspect that I have the docs on the Intel chips somewhere, but it sounds like others have the DG docs which are going to be better for simh purposes. Clem -- ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] [SimH] Networking support
- Original Message - From: Clem Cole To: Bill Cunningham Cc: SIMH Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2016 3:31 PM Subject: Re: [Simh] [SimH] Networking support Bill, You probably need to date things a little and get a some perspective of where a few of us are coming. Just to set a few lines in the sand. While 3Mb/s "xerox" ethernet has been around for about 5 years, the DEC/Intel/Xerox Ethernet 10Mb/s spec was published Sep 30, 1980. Per RFC 801, Arpanet was not officially schedule to switch from the old NCP to IP until Jan 1, 1983 (although a number of folks like me had been working with what would become IP/TCP for 3-4 years before that). Oh Wow. I have always been told Jan 1st 1981 and they went from "Link Control Protocol" to TCP/IP. Must've been wrong then somebody was. [...] ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] [SimH] Networking support
the OS support for same. Frankly, it is probably not worth investing a lot of effort into writing the HW emulation unless we have the SW to drive it. And frankly, you need to think how you will use it. Modulo Johnny and the cool folks running HECnet (a large world wide network running DECnet over the Internet), you probably will want to have Internet functionality to be able to access the systems. The good news is that a number of folks developed implementations for almost most of the major OS implementations and many of the manufacturers eventually picked them up (DEC would eventually take the Tek/CMU IP implementation in house). The bad news is I fear except for a few cases where the manufacturer picked it up and made a product, some of those stacks (like the HP-1000 and HP-3000 stacks from BBN) have been lost. If someone has those it would be cool, but I have not seen those bits since the early 1980s. Clem On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 2:36 PM, Bill Cunningham wrote: What I meant was that I remember on early PCs using an rs232-c line for using the old BBSes and compuserve before it was an ISP. 10 cents a minute. I had several modems 300, 1200 and 2400 baud modems. These even older machines may have had hookups within a company. Even one building connecting 5 or so machines. Serial would've worked fine. And was what was used. I was thinking with maybe 4-5 PDP8s a company would use some kind of networking. Perhaps not back then. I was only aware of pdp11 and vax being "network possible". I guess I was wrong. Bill - Original Message - From: Clem Cole To: Anders Magnusson Cc: SIMH ; Bob Supnik Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2016 2:24 PM Subject: Re: [Simh] [SimH] Networking support On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 12:25 PM, Anders Magnusson wrote: DG-UX or MV/UX? Which was the rewrite of System V ?? i.e. System V cmd system, but internally developed System V SMP kernel -- I want to say DG-UX maybe; but I'd been a long time and many beers ago - I've forgotten the name. I remember it was a very clean UNIX implementation. Nice locking structure, easy to debug, etc... Locus was working on different projects with Ultrix, Tru64, VMS, AIX, SunOS, Solaris, HP-UX, Apollo, DG's UX, some work for Pr1me, ISC's 386/ix, Intel's 386 port, SVR4 for the AT&T/UI guys, and Intel's Paragon at the same time. At one point, I had the OS release schedules for HP, DEC and Sun all pasted on the wall behind my desk. I used to say LCC got to see everyone's dirty laundry in those days. As I said, I do remember the DG Unix re-implementation was very easy to work on (I will not say which one we cursed the most). The DG ethernet card has a 82586 on board. As I said, many beers ago. I'm undoubtedly mixed up a couple of the systems, since we had so many we worked with in those days. I remember the AMD chip was a lot easier to program than the Intel device. That said, I suspect that I have the docs on the Intel chips somewhere, but it sounds like others have the DG docs which are going to be better for simh purposes. Clem ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh -- ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] Networking support
NCP is that network control program? "Network control protocol" and "link control protocol" I am finding is part of PPP. So RFC 801's reference to NCP; is that "network control program". I appreciate being corrected. Henry's BBN question is very interesting. Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] simh and dos
I personally think simh is one of the highest quality simulator systems you can get. Do any of the emulators like altair or so emulate MS DOS of any version? Or can they? If not might it in the future? Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] simh and dos
Yeah I've heard of RDOS and X DOS. I have virtual PC 2007 and dosbox does work. I still like SIMh the best. B - Original Message - From: Davis Johnson To: Bill Cunningham Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2016 3:43 PM Subject: Re: [Simh] simh and dos None of the SIMH emulators emulate a machine MS/DOS would run on. There are other operating systems called DOS (disk operating system) that have nothing to do with MS/DOS. Many of the SIMH emulators will run one of these DOS operating systems. DOS may run on a VM using vmware, under emulation by, BOCHS, dosbox, boxer etc. On 03/19/2016 04:28 PM, Bill Cunningham wrote: The thing is I don't know the emulators well enough to know which one(s) do or don't do that. I've only used say three of them and never Altair. Vax, PDP-11 and PDP-8. Bill - Original Message - From: Davis Johnson To: simh@trailing-edge.com Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2016 2:24 PM Subject: Re: [Simh] simh and dos Emulating a 5-slot PC or 8-slot PC/XT so that you can run actual MS/DOS would be closer to the SIMH way. On 03/19/2016 03:04 PM, Bill Cunningham wrote: I personally think simh is one of the highest quality simulator systems you can get. Do any of the emulators like altair or so emulate MS DOS of any version? Or can they? If not might it in the future? Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh -- ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] simh and dos
Simh will probably never emulate a more modern system. At least not the main
distro. That's not simh's purpose to my knowledge. MSDOS just isn't old enough
:)
- Original Message -
From: Bill Cunningham
To: Davis Johnson ; simh@trailing-edge.com
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2016 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Simh] simh and dos
Yeah I've heard of RDOS and X DOS. I have virtual PC 2007 and
dosbox does work. I still like SIMh the best.
B
- Original Message -
From: Davis Johnson
To: Bill Cunningham
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2016 3:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Simh] simh and dos
None of the SIMH emulators emulate a machine MS/DOS would run on. There are
other operating systems called DOS (disk operating system) that have nothing to
do with MS/DOS. Many of the SIMH emulators will run one of these DOS operating
systems.
DOS may run on a VM using vmware, under emulation by, BOCHS, dosbox, boxer
etc.
On 03/19/2016 04:28 PM, Bill Cunningham wrote:
The thing is I don't know the emulators well enough to know which one(s)
do or don't do that. I've only used say three of them and never Altair. Vax,
PDP-11 and PDP-8.
Bill
- Original Message -
From: Davis Johnson
To: simh@trailing-edge.com
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2016 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Simh] simh and dos
Emulating a 5-slot PC or 8-slot PC/XT so that you can run actual MS/DOS
would be closer to the SIMH way.
On 03/19/2016 03:04 PM, Bill Cunningham wrote:
I personally think simh is one of the highest quality simulator
systems you can get. Do any of the emulators like altair or so emulate MS DOS
of any version? Or can they? If not might it in the future?
Bill
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[Simh] TU-58 tape
I can't seem to be able to find anywhere, and I looked at some of my own previous posts as well as others on this list; about tu-58 tapes. Now there are some VMS versions 3 and 4 and such that have a .TAP extension. They are copies of actual cartridges. For vax or possibly pdp11. How do you set the vax for those tapes? I have looked at simh docs and tried at tu (or tk) tk0 and it seems to work but set doesn't work. Here's a link to that page. http://iamvirtual.ca/VAX11/VAX-11-software.html Does simh emulate this tape? I'm sure most are familiar with this page. Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] TU-58 tape
OK I see. I have the 3.9 that is at Simh's homepage. I can get the master at github. TYVM. Bill - Original Message - From: Mark Pizzolato To: Bill Cunningham Cc: simh@trailing-edge.com Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 5:21 PM Subject: Re: [Simh] TU-58 tape The all of the VAX (and PDP11) simulators in the current simh codebase at HTTPS://github.com/simh/simh have TU58 device support. The console devices on the VAX750 and VAX730 simulators can boot from bootable media (device TD as I recall). All simulators have simulated TU58s connected via simulated DL serial ports with the device known as TDC. Up to 32 TU58 drives are supported. - MarkI can't seem to be able to find anywhere, and I looked at some of my own previous posts as well as others on this list; about tu-58 tapes. Now there are some VMS versions 3 and 4 and such that have a .TAP extension. They are copies of actual cartridges. For vax or possibly pdp11. How do you set the vax for those tapes? I have looked at simh docs and tried at tu (or tk) tk0 and it seems to work but set doesn't work. Here's a link to that page. http://iamvirtual.ca/VAX11/VAX-11-software.html Does simh emulate this tape? I'm sure most are familiar with this page. Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] (no subject)
Hum. I read the docs for both vax780 and 'vax' and I see TU being there. But not a 'TU-58' for either of these emulators. This is the version from February of this year. There's TK tapes and a TU-8x. I use x because I can't remember that second digit. Just not '58'. Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] TU-56
My apologies for posting carlessly and not entering a subject. I do now indeed have the latest simhvmaster mar 2006. OK. I see vax780 supports TU-50. Will that also support TU-56. Sorry for my ignorance. Maybe I am overlooking TU-56 support somewhere. Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] TU-56
Ok at this page then, http://iamvirtual.ca/VAX11/VAX-11-software.html Whatever that putr is it's for DOS. OK I guess it is TU-58 then. Too many numbers today. THis looks mostly like VMS but maybe some other things too. Bill - Original Message - From: Mark Pizzolato To: Christian Gauger-Cosgrove ; Bill Cunningham Cc: SIMH Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2016 4:55 PM Subject: RE: [Simh] TU-56 On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 2:40 PM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote: > On 24 March 2016 at 18:13, Bill Cunningham wrote: > > My apologies for posting carlessly and not entering a subject. I > > do now indeed have the latest simhvmaster mar 2006. OK. I see vax780 > > supports TU-50. Will that also support TU-56. Sorry for my ignorance. > > Maybe I am overlooking TU-56 support somewhere. > > > Neither the "vax780" (VAX-11/780) or "vax8600" (VAX-11/790... sorry, I mean > VAX 8600) simulators support the TU56 DECtape, but they do support TU58 > DECtape II. This is not merely a problem with lack of simulation. The goal of the simh simulators is to simulate what was really supported on the original hardware that is being simulated. DEC didn't support TU56 DECtape on any VAX system, hence the device isn't included in the VAX simulators... - Mark ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] text from openvms
I have been studying the best way to copy from a vax simulator with openvms to a linux host, text files. The Docs look like telnet and kermit are the way to do it. So is there not a device like ISO that I can copy TOO? I wouldn't think because cdrom is RO after all. and 'set rq writeenable' isn't working nor is anything to do with cdrom working. There may be several ways to do this. I am not concerned so much about binary files as several .txt files. Am I on the right track with telnet and kermit from those who have attempted and done this? Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] text from openvms
I don't want to get involved with FTP. That's setting up tcpip in VMS and lately I've been having terrible problems with that. I have set that aside. For now anyway. IDK about the old VMSs but openvms is new to me and I don't want to go too far too much. Thank's for the idea. My linux does have kermit. Is there a way to do this without involving tcp/ip protocols? - Original Message - From: Bill Deegan To: Zachary Kline Cc: Bill Cunningham ; SIMH List Sent: Friday, March 25, 2016 1:38 PM Subject: Re: [Simh] text from openvms How about FTP? On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 11:27 AM, Zachary Kline wrote: Hi Bill, Kermit is definitely robust enough to do what you want. You could always do the “type the file to your terminal and copy paste,” dance too. That would work for text files particularly. ON OS X at least there’s a way to save terminal output to a text file as well. I don’t know about CDs. I’d think that might be a bit of overkill for what you want, Kermit’s pretty easy to set up. Best, Zack. On Mar 25, 2016, at 12:23 PM, Bill Cunningham wrote: I have been studying the best way to copy from a vax simulator with openvms to a linux host, text files. The Docs look like telnet and kermit are the way to do it. So is there not a device like ISO that I can copy TOO? I wouldn't think because cdrom is RO after all. and 'set rq writeenable' isn't working nor is anything to do with cdrom working. There may be several ways to do this. I am not concerned so much about binary files as several .txt files. Am I on the right track with telnet and kermit from those who have attempted and done this? Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] text from openvms
OK. I will look into it. And see what I can do. - Original Message - From: Mark Pizzolato To: Bill Cunningham ; Bill Deegan ; simh@trailing-edge.com Sent: Friday, March 25, 2016 1:50 PM Subject: RE: [Simh] text from openvms If you want to go down the Kermit path you’ll need Kermit for the VMS side and you’ll need to find a way to get it into your simulated environment. From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Bill Cunningham Sent: Friday, March 25, 2016 12:46 PM To: Bill Deegan ; simh@trailing-edge.com Subject: Re: [Simh] text from openvms I don't want to get involved with FTP. That's setting up tcpip in VMS and lately I've been having terrible problems with that. I have set that aside. For now anyway. IDK about the old VMSs but openvms is new to me and I don't want to go too far too much. Thank's for the idea. My linux does have kermit. Is there a way to do this without involving tcp/ip protocols? - Original Message - From: Bill Deegan To: Zachary Kline Cc: Bill Cunningham ; SIMH List Sent: Friday, March 25, 2016 1:38 PM Subject: Re: [Simh] text from openvms How about FTP? On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 11:27 AM, Zachary Kline wrote: Hi Bill, Kermit is definitely robust enough to do what you want. You could always do the “type the file to your terminal and copy paste,” dance too. That would work for text files particularly. ON OS X at least there’s a way to save terminal output to a text file as well. I don’t know about CDs. I’d think that might be a bit of overkill for what you want, Kermit’s pretty easy to set up. Best, Zack. On Mar 25, 2016, at 12:23 PM, Bill Cunningham wrote: I have been studying the best way to copy from a vax simulator with openvms to a linux host, text files. The Docs look like telnet and kermit are the way to do it. So is there not a device like ISO that I can copy TOO? I wouldn't think because cdrom is RO after all. and 'set rq writeenable' isn't working nor is anything to do with cdrom working. There may be several ways to do this. I am not concerned so much about binary files as several .txt files. Am I on the right track with telnet and kermit from those who have attempted and done this? Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] text from openvms
I used, at lpt t.txt And all worked fine there. But print file.txt on VMS is not so simple. But that's another story. - Original Message - From: Bob Supnik To: simh@trailing-edge.com Sent: Friday, March 25, 2016 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [Simh] text from openvms 1. Attach a (new) host file to the simulated printer on VMS. 2. Print your VMS text file to file to the simulated printer. 3. Let some time elapse, to make sure the print spooler finishes. 4. Detach file from the simulated printer. 5. VMS text file is now on your host in the host file you specified in step 1. The LP11 printer is very dumb. It requires carriage returns and linefeeds for proper sequencing, so you end up with a correctly formatted Windows text file. Linux should be able to eat that directly; if it needs the carriage returns removed, there are utilities to do that (see ASC in the simtools package). /Bob On 3/25/2016 2:51 PM, simh-requ...@trailing-edge.com wrote: > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 14:23:35 -0500 > From: "Bill Cunningham" > To: > Subject: [Simh] text from openvms > Message-ID: <2F1F92FAE2FF4B2FB298AD1D3C4C36C3@apxtz6bip7fvgk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I have been studying the best way to copy from a vax simulator with openvms to a linux host, text files. The Docs look like telnet and kermit are the way to do it. So is there not a device like ISO that I can copy TOO? I wouldn't think because cdrom is RO after all. and 'set rq writeenable' isn't working nor is anything to do with cdrom working. > > There may be several ways to do this. I am not concerned so much about binary files as several .txt files. Am I on the right track with telnet and kermit from those who have attempted and done this? > > Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] text from openvms
The only thing I know I can do is to use 'type filename' and log that to a file
attached to simh. That would take a very long time though. People tell me
kermit in vms can be a pain.
- Original Message -
From: Sergey Oboguev
To: Mark Pizzolato ; Bill Cunningham ; Bill Deegan ; simh@trailing-edge.com
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2016 6:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Simh] text from openvms
One approach would be to simply use telnet client that can dump a session to
a file or copy it to the clipboard, and then inside VMS do something like "COPY
Q.TXT TXB1:"
--
From: Mark Pizzolato
To: Bill Cunningham ; Bill Deegan
; "simh@trailing-edge.com"
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2016 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Simh] text from openvms
If you want to go down the Kermit path you’ll need Kermit for the VMS side
and you’ll need to find a way to get it into your simulated environment.
From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Cunningham
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2016 12:46 PM
To: Bill Deegan ; simh@trailing-edge.com
Subject: Re: [Simh] text from openvms
I don't want to get involved with FTP. That's setting up tcpip in VMS and
lately I've been having terrible problems with that. I have set that aside. For
now anyway. IDK about the old VMSs but openvms is new to me and I don't want to
go too far too much. Thank's for the idea. My linux does have kermit. Is there
a way to do this without involving tcp/ip protocols?
- Original Message -
From: Bill Deegan
To: Zachary Kline
Cc: Bill Cunningham ; SIMH List
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2016 1:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Simh] text from openvms
How about FTP?
On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 11:27 AM, Zachary Kline
wrote:
Hi Bill,
Kermit is definitely robust enough to do what you want. You could always
do the “type the file to your terminal and copy paste,” dance too. That would
work for text files particularly. ON OS X at least there’s a way to save
terminal output to a text file as well.
I don’t know about CDs. I’d think that might be a bit of overkill for
what you want, Kermit’s pretty easy to set up.
Best,
Zack.
On Mar 25, 2016, at 12:23 PM, Bill Cunningham
wrote:
I have been studying the best way to copy from a vax simulator with
openvms to a linux host, text files. The Docs look like telnet and kermit are
the way to do it. So is there not a device like ISO that I can copy TOO? I
wouldn't think because cdrom is RO after all. and 'set rq writeenable' isn't
working nor is anything to do with cdrom working.
There may be several ways to do this. I am not concerned so much
about binary files as several .txt files. Am I on the right track with telnet
and kermit from those who have attempted and done this?
Bill
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Re: [Simh] Been off the job too long
Oh my God there's no hope for me. :-) - Original Message - From: Bob Supnik To: simh@trailing-edge.com Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2016 2:58 PM Subject: [Simh] Been off the job too long How can I get the macro11 cross-assembler to output absolute binary format? Or is there a post-processing program that I've forgotten about? Thanks, /Bob Supnik ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] (no subject)
Mark and all, Since you are going to add TU-58 support will these files be accessable now? http://iamvirtual.ca/VAX11/VAX-11-software.html It seems like at some point I used simh to successfully get into one of those .TAP files. I didn't know enough about it to know what I was doing but would have been able to get it? These seem to be relatively new additions by the DEC users. Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] simh development
I seem to have remembered discussing this somewhere at sometime. I have googled and googled and don't know how to get in touch with Mark. Is there a .doc that is a tutorial to use simh as a API? I know I have seen something like that before. Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] error
I am receiving this error code ?42 no such file set rq0 cdrom at rq0 openvms73.iso Recently the file openvms73.iso which was bzip2'd was being uncompressed. bunzip2 said there was a problem. And use bzip2recover. Which I did. Of course there were many recovery files and as they were being created recover said there was something wrong. Then I used bunzip2 rec* > openvms73.iso and all the recovery files seemed to merge into openvms73.iso. Could there be a problem there? simh vax simulator isn't recognizing a file for some reason. Can I correct this? Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] Integrity
What simh emulator is the "Integrity"? I have a VMS hobbyist PAK for it from HP. Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] EXT : Integrity
Oh I thought simh had a working alpha simulator. For a later version than vms7.3. OH I have a PAK for VAX oh yes. - Original Message - From: "Hittner, David T (IS)" To: "Bill Cunningham" ; Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 2:07 PM Subject: RE: EXT :[Simh] Integrity There is no Integrity [aka Itanium or IA-64] simulation in SIMH. You will have to use real hardware for your Hobbyist PAK. The Alpha simulator is in development and does not boot yet. The VAX simulation (and variants) are the only ones that can currently run VMS. Sorry, David Hittner -Original Message- From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Bill Cunningham Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 1:56 PM To: simh@trailing-edge.com Subject: EXT :[Simh] Integrity What simh emulator is the "Integrity"? I have a VMS hobbyist PAK for it from HP. Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
[Simh] alpha emulator
Ok since I have been told the alpha simh emulator isn't booting yet. I guess I have two questions: o does anyone know when it should be complete or what's going on? Maybe I should check the main page or something. o And two, is there any emulators that can be used until then? Something to run openVMS on. Ty Bill ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
