Re: [Biofuel] Polymerization of BD- more than copper to be concerned with.

[bob allen]

JJJN wrote:
> Dang it I hate it when I make the same mistake twice.
> Again thanks for keeping me straight.  I also understand that it is 
> important to be clear when you are talking about things so closely related.
> 
> Could you give me a quick overview of what exactly happens in the 
> hydrogenation of oil and why that affects the gel point?

ok I'll give it a shot. Liquids solidify when all the component molecules can 
nestle together.  The 
more regular their structure, the more easily this will happen.  Saturated fats 
have a more regular 
structure than unsaturated fats, hence their gel points are higher. the 
unsaturation in vegetable 
oil amounts to putting kinks in otherwise regular chains.  Hydrogenation 
converts the source of the 
kinks- cis double bounds- to regular saturated chains, hence raising the gel 
point.


to recap:  saturated lipids, (usually from animal sources and called fats)  
regular structure, easy 
 nestling, high gel point.

unsaturated lipids ( usually from plant sources and called oils) 
irregular structure, 
difficult nestling, low gel point.


unsaturated bonds  + hydrogen---> saturated bonds  (the process is hence 
hydrogenation)



> 
> Jim
> 
> bob allen wrote:
> 
>>  you mean hydrogenated oil, hydrolyzed oil would be free fatty acids.
>>
>> "the scold"
>>
>>
>> JJJN wrote:
>>  
>>
>>> Hi Keith,
>>> I guess I am spoiled with the hydrolized oil I use that is mixed with 
>>> about 50 % animal fat.  But I must use a heated system in winter as I 
>>> gel around 45 degrees F. So winterizing is my big project now.
>>> Let me know how you do with the Venturi.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>  
>>
> 
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-- 
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=
The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises in moral 
philosophy; that is, 
the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness  JKG

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Re: [Biofuel] Polymerization of BD- more than copper to be concerned with.

[JJJN]

Dang it I hate it when I make the same mistake twice.
Again thanks for keeping me straight.  I also understand that it is 
important to be clear when you are talking about things so closely related.

Could you give me a quick overview of what exactly happens in the 
hydrogenation of oil and why that affects the gel point?

Jim

bob allen wrote:

>  you mean hydrogenated oil, hydrolyzed oil would be free fatty acids.
>
>"the scold"
>
>
>JJJN wrote:
>  
>
>>Hi Keith,
>>I guess I am spoiled with the hydrolized oil I use that is mixed with 
>>about 50 % animal fat.  But I must use a heated system in winter as I 
>>gel around 45 degrees F. So winterizing is my big project now.
>>Let me know how you do with the Venturi.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>  
>

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Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness (Was Hypnosis as Anesthesia WasTestimonials as Evidence)

[bob allen]

That last one from me was dashed off a little too hastily.  Here is what 
I should have sent:

Howdy Terry,

Terry Dyck wrote:
> Because my name was mentioned in this thread I would like to join Joe and D. 
> Mindock in stating that I to believe in science.  There is good science and 
> bad science. 

bad science has little meaning in my mind.   One can pursue information 
via methods that attempt to control for confounding variables or not. 
There is hype, marketing, downright lies etc. but that is not science.


  When it comes to the western world and health money seems to
> be a huge factor and prevention of disease does not get as much published 
> science in a good light as does big profit pharmacetical corportations.

or big profit for little guys like mercola, hulda clark, and an endless
array of hucksters?


   So
> we seem to mostly here what the big corporations have to say. 

not on this list, huh.  But we do see mercola et al. I really don't see
much difference, other than greater regulation of big pharma.



  This is not
> good for human health.
> 
> Terry Dyck
> 
> 
>> From: "D. Mindock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>> To: 
>> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness (Was Hypnosis as Anesthesia 
>> WasTestimonials as Evidence)
>> Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 02:33:15 -0500
>>
>> Yep, I too admire scientists, real truth seeking ones, not those who can be
>> bought to produce desired
>> outcomes. My degree is in science, atmospheric. Basically I am trained to
>> run computer
>> models of the atmosphere and to enhance the models so they correlate more
>> closely to
>> reality. Reality, aka Nature, is the gold standard.
>> Bob is wound a bit tight but that might come from trying to pour knowledge
>> into hung-over
>> college students. His love of data, results from scientific studies, is awe
>> inspiring at times.
>> Peace, D. Mindock
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Joe Street" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: 
>> Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 8:34 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness (Was Hypnosis as Anesthesia Was
>> Testimonials as Evidence)
>>
>>
>>> Hi Kurt;
>>>
>>> Pardon my snipping style but.
>>>
>>> Kurt Nolte wrote:
>>> snip
>>>
 On the other side we have his opponents, among them Joe Street, Terry
 Dyck, Mike Dupree and D. Mindock, to name a few off the top of my head.
 These people seem to be, to the best of my knowledge, claiming that
 herbs (The topic at hand) are the /only/ things that are truly
 efficacious as medicinal compounds, and that pharmaceuticals produced by
 synthetic processes just don't hack it.


>>> Actually I don't believe I ever said that!  I am opposing Bob to some
>>> degree but that doesn't mean I said what you are attributing to me, or I
>>> guess more correctly that you should be lumping me in with what you are
>>> saying about the others.  I am very scientifically inclined, I run a
>>> university lab for pete's sake as well but I am also a sceptic of the
>>> idea that science is the be all and end all or that it has all the
>>> answers.  I still have great respect for science and believe that one
>>> day it may encompass things that it currently can't explain.  All I am
>>> suggesting to Bob is that even though science cannot explain something
>>> at the present time, that does not mean it must necessarily be
>>> rejected.  I think this is the only point on which Bob and I are in
>>> dissagreement.  I also wouldn't say it is fair to be calling Bob closed
>>> minded.  Stubborn yes but narrow or closed minded, no.
>>>
>>> Joe
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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> 
> 
> 
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-
Science is what we have learned about how to
keep from fooling ourselves.   Richard Feynman

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Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness (Was Hypnosis as Anesthesia WasTestimonials as Evidence)

[bob allen]

howdy terry

Terry Dyck wrote:
> Because my name was mentioned in this thread I would like to join Joe and D. 
> Mindock in stating that I to believe in science.  There is good science and 
> bad science. 

bad science is an oxymoron.  One can pursue information via methods 
attempt to control confounding variables or not.  There is hype, 
marketing, downright lies etc.  but that is science.


  When it comes to the western world and health money seems to
> be a huge factor and prevention of disease does not get as much published 
> science in a good light as does big profit pharmacetical corportations. 

or big profit for little guys like mercola, hulda clark, and an endless 
array of hucksters.


So
> we seem to mostly here what the big corporations have to say.

not on this list, huh.  But we do see mercola et al. I really don't see 
much difference, other than greater regulation of big pharma.



   This is not
> good for human health.

it depends



> 
> Terry Dyck
> 
> 
>> From: "D. Mindock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>> To: 
>> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness (Was Hypnosis as Anesthesia 
>> WasTestimonials as Evidence)
>> Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 02:33:15 -0500
>>
>> Yep, I too admire scientists, real truth seeking ones, not those who can be
>> bought to produce desired
>> outcomes. My degree is in science, atmospheric. Basically I am trained to
>> run computer
>> models of the atmosphere and to enhance the models so they correlate more
>> closely to
>> reality. Reality, aka Nature, is the gold standard.
>> Bob is wound a bit tight but that might come from trying to pour knowledge
>> into hung-over
>> college students. His love of data, results from scientific studies, is awe
>> inspiring at times.
>> Peace, D. Mindock
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Joe Street" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: 
>> Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 8:34 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness (Was Hypnosis as Anesthesia Was
>> Testimonials as Evidence)
>>
>>
>>> Hi Kurt;
>>>
>>> Pardon my snipping style but.
>>>
>>> Kurt Nolte wrote:
>>> snip
>>>
 On the other side we have his opponents, among them Joe Street, Terry
 Dyck, Mike Dupree and D. Mindock, to name a few off the top of my head.
 These people seem to be, to the best of my knowledge, claiming that
 herbs (The topic at hand) are the /only/ things that are truly
 efficacious as medicinal compounds, and that pharmaceuticals produced by
 synthetic processes just don't hack it.


>>> Actually I don't believe I ever said that!  I am opposing Bob to some
>>> degree but that doesn't mean I said what you are attributing to me, or I
>>> guess more correctly that you should be lumping me in with what you are
>>> saying about the others.  I am very scientifically inclined, I run a
>>> university lab for pete's sake as well but I am also a sceptic of the
>>> idea that science is the be all and end all or that it has all the
>>> answers.  I still have great respect for science and believe that one
>>> day it may encompass things that it currently can't explain.  All I am
>>> suggesting to Bob is that even though science cannot explain something
>>> at the present time, that does not mean it must necessarily be
>>> rejected.  I think this is the only point on which Bob and I are in
>>> dissagreement.  I also wouldn't say it is fair to be calling Bob closed
>>> minded.  Stubborn yes but narrow or closed minded, no.
>>>
>>> Joe
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 

-- 
Bob Allen
http://www.ozarker.org/bob
-
Science is what we have learned about how to
keep from fooling ourselves.   Richard Feynman

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Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness (Was Hypnosis as Anesthesia WasTestimonials as Evidence)

[Terry Dyck]

Because my name was mentioned in this thread I would like to join Joe and D. 
Mindock in stating that I to believe in science.  There is good science and 
bad science.  When it comes to the western world and health money seems to 
be a huge factor and prevention of disease does not get as much published 
science in a good light as does big profit pharmacetical corportations.  So 
we seem to mostly here what the big corporations have to say.  This is not 
good for human health.

Terry Dyck


>From: "D. Mindock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>To: 
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness (Was Hypnosis as Anesthesia 
>WasTestimonials as Evidence)
>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 02:33:15 -0500
>
>Yep, I too admire scientists, real truth seeking ones, not those who can be
>bought to produce desired
>outcomes. My degree is in science, atmospheric. Basically I am trained to
>run computer
>models of the atmosphere and to enhance the models so they correlate more
>closely to
>reality. Reality, aka Nature, is the gold standard.
>Bob is wound a bit tight but that might come from trying to pour knowledge
>into hung-over
>college students. His love of data, results from scientific studies, is awe
>inspiring at times.
>Peace, D. Mindock
>
>
>- Original Message -
>From: "Joe Street" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: 
>Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 8:34 AM
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness (Was Hypnosis as Anesthesia Was
>Testimonials as Evidence)
>
>
> > Hi Kurt;
> >
> > Pardon my snipping style but.
> >
> > Kurt Nolte wrote:
> > snip
> >
> >>
> >>On the other side we have his opponents, among them Joe Street, Terry
> >>Dyck, Mike Dupree and D. Mindock, to name a few off the top of my head.
> >>These people seem to be, to the best of my knowledge, claiming that
> >>herbs (The topic at hand) are the /only/ things that are truly
> >>efficacious as medicinal compounds, and that pharmaceuticals produced by
> >>synthetic processes just don't hack it.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Actually I don't believe I ever said that!  I am opposing Bob to some
> > degree but that doesn't mean I said what you are attributing to me, or I
> > guess more correctly that you should be lumping me in with what you are
> > saying about the others.  I am very scientifically inclined, I run a
> > university lab for pete's sake as well but I am also a sceptic of the
> > idea that science is the be all and end all or that it has all the
> > answers.  I still have great respect for science and believe that one
> > day it may encompass things that it currently can't explain.  All I am
> > suggesting to Bob is that even though science cannot explain something
> > at the present time, that does not mean it must necessarily be
> > rejected.  I think this is the only point on which Bob and I are in
> > dissagreement.  I also wouldn't say it is fair to be calling Bob closed
> > minded.  Stubborn yes but narrow or closed minded, no.
> >
> > Joe
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Tiny Inhaled Particles Take Easy Route From Nose ToBrain

[Joe Street]

Hey Doug;

Maybe someone should tell them to make fuel rods out of it!  LOL

Joe

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Uranium 
  

snip

   improves the properties of steel as an alloying element which suggests 
to me that it may have good metallurgical properties on its own.

Doug Woodard
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada


On Fri, 6 Oct 2006, Paul S Cantrell wrote:

  
  
Ah, that's at standard pressure, right?  Don't you think that the impact of
a jetliner at several hundred miles per hour and the ensuing explosion and
fall of the towers would increase the pressure and lower the melting point
and vaporize some of the DU?

Anyway, the asbestos was enough to cause breathing problems for site workers
for the rest of their lives.

On 9/25/06, Thompson, Mark L. (PNB R&D) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


   Kirk the melting point of DU is 2070 F (1132C) and the boiling point us
7101 F (3917C).

The max temperature seen in the TWC was round 1000C, not even enough the
melt DU let alone vaporize it.
  

  
  
[snip]

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Re: [Biofuel] Polymerization of BD- more than copper to be concerned with.

[bob allen]

  you mean hydrogenated oil, hydrolyzed oil would be free fatty acids.

"the scold"


JJJN wrote:
> Hi Keith,
> I guess I am spoiled with the hydrolized oil I use that is mixed with 
> about 50 % animal fat.  But I must use a heated system in winter as I 
> gel around 45 degrees F. So winterizing is my big project now.
> Let me know how you do with the Venturi.
> 
>

-- 
Bob Allen
http://www.ozarker.org/bob
-
Science is what we have learned about how to
keep from fooling ourselves.   Richard Feynman

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Re: [Biofuel] Polymerization of BD- more than copper to be concerned with.

[Keith Addison]

Hi Jim

>Hi Keith,
>I guess I am spoiled with the hydrolized oil I use that is mixed with
>about 50 % animal fat.

Yes, I guess you are spoiled! :-)

>But I must use a heated system in winter as I
>gel around 45 degrees F. So winterizing is my big project now.

It's one reason we fitted the Elsbett system. We use SVO in summer 
until the temp hits about -5 deg C (23 deg F), then we switch to 
biodiesel. The Elsbett pre-heating has kept the biodiesel flowing 
freely through quite long periods at -12 to -15 deg C (10 to 5 deg 
F), haven't had a gelling problem yet. I don't know how far that 
would apply to 50% animal fat biodiesel though. A lot better than 45 
deg F I think.

>Let me know how you do with the Venturi.

Certainly I will, thanks.

Regards

Keith


>Jim
>
>Keith Addison wrote:
>
> >Hi Jim
> >
> >
> >
> >>What good would the methanol test do? I don't see a relationship with
> >>Polymerization. Now If you get a varnish layer like you would when
> >>oxidation affects Tung oil thats a sure giveaway it seems. I may be
> >>wrong but please explain.
> >>
> >>Also, Tung oil is a good subject here,  Polymerization affects it about
> >>as fast as anything going all you do is add oxygen and it happens.
> >>However I have store it for years by just  containering it  to eliminate
> >>the exposure to oxygen as I use it.  I also understand the oil has
> >>oxygen present during the packaging and seldom it is when I don' t open
> >>a can that has been around for a couple years that there is not a Skin.
> >>However the skin removed and the remaining oil is as good as ever until
> >>you add oxygen again.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >I think the subject concerns Iodine Values as much as treatment and storage.
> >
> >
> >
> >>So my premise here is:  Catalysts may be present but without the oxygen
> >>they are inert to a point. Therefore, it becomes more important to
> >>reduce Oxygen in storage and processing than variables that are out of
> >>your control. However that is not to say one should introduce any Metal
> >>ions in the process if at all avoidable.  I think that Biodiesel can be
> >>stored well if it is:
> >>1) Stored with the containers full as possible.
> >>2) Stored out of sunlight and in as cold a place as possible.
> >>3) Processed in a way as to eliminate oxygen and metal ions in the
> >>process as much as possible.
> >>4) Use a hydrolyzed oil if you can get your hands on it.
> >>5) If using a venturi it is absolute prerequisite that you DO NOT LET
> >>AIR CHURN IN DURING PROCESSING.
> >>6) Get the fuel dry. ( use a Diesel fuel de-ox and fungicide.)
> >>
> >>
> >
> >One to add?
> >
> >
> >
> >>I think that Biodiesel can be
> >>stored well if it is:
> >>
> >>
> >
> >7) Not made of soy oil.
> >
> >By the way...
> >
> >
> >
> >>5) If using a venturi it is absolute prerequisite that you DO NOT LET
> >>AIR CHURN IN DURING PROCESSING.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Soon! I've done no work with biodiesel for the last five months other
> >than make it as needed, but the other work (farm) is winding down in
> >October and then I'll be able to pick up some of the things I've been
> >putting aside, including the venturi.
> >
> >All best
> >
> >Keith
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>I have been wrong before and submit this premise to the greater minds of
> >>the list for scrutiny. Interesting subject this.
> >>
> >>Jim
> >>
> >>Joe Street wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Hi Tom;
> >>>
> >>>Just for giggles, if you get time I'd be curious if the methanol test
> >>>still passes on the 2 month old B100.  I assume it will still oxidize
> >>>even without the copper in constant contact.  There is sure to be
> >>>metal ions in the fuel from various sources.  Now that the cold is
> >>>here and I can only run B50 I'll slow down my production so I don't
> >>>get ahead of myself like I did last winter.
> >>>
> >>>Joe
> >>>
> >>>Thomas Kelly wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> Joe,
> Keep in mind that I had a 1M. piece of copper tubing submerged in the
> BD for over 3 months. I have a cubie of BD that was still crystal clear
> after 2 months (the longest I have stored BD other than the polymerized
> stuff) and it will go in the car.
> The 50+ gal (200L) of BD in question is burning in my
> 
> 
> >>oil-fired boiler.
> >>
> >>
> I'm about half way through it and with the temps getting cooler
> 
> 
> >>it should be
> >>
> >>
> gone soon. Good riddance to it.
> I like the silver lining you found in what looked like a grey cloud.
>  Tom
> - Original Message -
> From: "Joe Street" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> 
> >>
> >>
> >>
> To:  
> Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 1:12 PM
> Subject: [Biofuel] Polymerization of BD- more than copper to be
> concernedwith.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >While looking for info on IR spectra, I found this excellent paper;
> >
> >http://

Re: [Biofuel] Tung Oil Risks

[Keith Addison]

Hello Janet

>Good Afternoon,
>
>I hope that everyone is using adequate safety precautions when 
>handling materials.
>Tung oil, rich in phorbol esters, has been implicated in the 
>initiation of pharyngeal
>cancers and the activation of Epstein-Barr virus.
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&; 
>list_uids=6297709&dopt=Abstract
>
>Many of the fumes from the basic oil stocks are carcinogenic, especially
>in relation to the leukemias and lymphomas.  Methanol is highly neurotoxic.

Yes but. Please see:

More about methanol
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#moremeth

"... With information from: United Nations Environment Programme / 
International Labour Organisation / World Health Organization: 
International Programme On Chemical Safety, Environmental Health 
Criteria 196 - Methanol, from IPCS INCHEM, "Chemical Safety 
Information from Intergovernmental Organizations", in cooperation 
with the Canadian Centre for Occupational Health and Safety (CCOHS)" 
and elsewhere.

>The biggest problem is with inhalation and contact.  Most people 
>don't take the risks
>seriously.

Yes they do. On the other hand, many people overestimate the risks 
and overreact, which isn't much use either. Please also see:

Safety:
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#safe

Hazards:
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor.html#haz

>When processing, it is easy to get accustomed to fumes and spills.
>>From a health standpoint, fume inhalation is especially risky when one has a
>cold or the flu.
>
>Working in a very well ventilated area

Work with closed processors.

>and using the highest degree of cleanliness
>only takes a little planning and care and pays the greatest of dividends.

Safety and hazards have been a strong emphasis from the beginning. 
Safe processes and safe equipment and practices have been the 
standard here for quite a long time, the practices people here use 
(or should be using) are effective and safe, and continue to improve. 
The homebrewer casualty rate in seven years seems to be zero.

I don't think anybody is being exposed to tung oil fumes. Jim isn't 
heating the stuff, just using it as varnish, which people have been 
doing for a very long time without ill-effect. I don't think anybody 
tries to process tung oil into biodiesel.

>Many of the fumes from the basic oil stocks are carcinogenic

There's no exposure with closed containers, but please tell us of any 
carcinogenic or other hazards you know of from exposure to the fumes 
of the basic oil stocks at the usual process temperature of 55 deg C. 
If we're facing hazards at that temperature, what's the hazard level 
in the average kitchen?

"Depending on the temperature, the thermal degradation of vegetable 
oils is a polymerisation (200-300 deg C), a degradation of vegetable 
oils into acrolein, ketene, fatty acids then formation of alcanes, 
alcenes above 300 deg C and finally a formation of a gas-liquid 
mixture from around 500 deg C up."
http://www.nf-2000.org/secure/Fair/F484.htm
FAIR-CT95-0627 - Advanced Combustion Research for Energy from 
Vegetable Oils (ACREVO)

Best wishes

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
KYOTO Pref., Japan
http://journeytoforever.org/

 

>Janet
>
>
>
>- Original Message - From: "Keith Addison" 
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: 
>Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 10:55 AM
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Polymerization of BD- more than copper to be 
>concerned with.
>
>
>>Hi Jim
>>
>>>What good would the methanol test do? I don't see a relationship with
>>>Polymerization. Now If you get a varnish layer like you would when
>>>oxidation affects Tung oil thats a sure giveaway it seems. I may be
>>>wrong but please explain.
>>>
>>>Also, Tung oil is a good subject here,  Polymerization affects it about
>>>as fast as anything going all you do is add oxygen and it happens.
>>>However I have store it for years by just  containering it  to eliminate
>>>the exposure to oxygen as I use it.  I also understand the oil has
>>>oxygen present during the packaging and seldom it is when I don' t open
>>>a can that has been around for a couple years that there is not a Skin.
>>>However the skin removed and the remaining oil is as good as ever until
>>>you add oxygen again.
>>
>>I think the subject concerns Iodine Values as much as treatment and storage.
>>
>>>So my premise here is:  Catalysts may be present but without the oxygen
>>>they are inert to a point. Therefore, it becomes more important to
>>>reduce Oxygen in storage and processing than variables that are out of
>>>your control. However that is not to say one should introduce any Metal
>>>ions in the process if at all avoidable.  I think that Biodiesel can be
>>>stored well if it is:
>>>1) Stored with the containers full as possible.
>>>2) Stored out of sunlight and in as cold a place as possible.
>>>3) Processed in a way as to eliminate oxygen and metal ions in the
>>>process as much as possible.
>>>4) Use a hydrolyzed oil if you ca

Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness (Was Hypnosis asAnesthesiaWasTestimonials as Evidence)

[Marylynn Schmidt]

Hi D ..

Actually, I believe that so much we are given is given to allow us the 
opportunity to Learn .. and learning can cover a lot of territory.

We either get it or we don't and when we don't .. that lesson comes back 
again and again.

Tonight, one of my business partners and I were talking about either that 
film or one very similar she had either seen or heard about while in 
Maryland .. but I thought she said that there were 3 "healers" working at 
the same time while the tumor was actually being filmed .. 3 inch tumor .. 
sorry that's all I remember about that brief discussion.

Definitely want to see that film!! .. and not that it matters if there were 
1, 3 or 15 "healers" commanding a physical tumor to "be gone"  .. it was 
done .. WOW!!

.. and now we have some contacts and hopefully will soon be obtaining it.

Having been raised in a fundamental christian religion I was always told 
that if I really wanted something I should pray for it .. if I didn't get it 
then my "Faith" wasn't strong enough.

Perhaps that's why I've become such a fan of Dr.Emoto's work in "Messages 
from Water". His discovery of Positive vs. Negative and their effect on 
water took that sunday school lesson of guilt and just pitched it out the 
window .. Thank you Dr.Emoto!!

Also having been raised in a household of 3 Chemical Engineers .. President 
of Solvey (division of Allied Chemical at the time), Head of Patients of 
Union Carbide before her retirement (and before Dow), .. and brother .. 
keeper of records of ALL those tests that are done before something is 
marketed for at least 3 different chemical companies.

Such a vested interest in acknowledging the PHYSICAL and ONLY THE PHYSICAL 
concerning what life and living is all about .. not to mention a vested 
interest in making a profit at whatever cost .. called the "bottom line".

This was "Table Talk" .. you know, family gatherings like birthdays, 
anniversaries, holidays.

BUT with that film of the eradication of a "physical" tumor .. whoever made 
it ..  takes  that "Only The Physical" concept and also does a pitching out 
of windows action .. humm .. I like it!!

Some days I am so grateful to be living in today's emerging awareness that 
so much of what we have be taught to be ABSOLUTE is more of a MAYBE ..  or 
even a maybe.

I know so many people who do this stuff on a daily basis .. really good 
ones.  I repeatedly see physical results from psychic connections and I find 
such a sadness when those in authority will not act on information and life 
is actually lost .. such blindness.

Mary Lynn
Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister
ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART
TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . 
Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner 
. Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity .
The Animal Connection Healing Modalities
http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/
http://allcreatureconnections.org


>From: "D. Mindock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>To: 
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness (Was Hypnosis 
>asAnesthesiaWasTestimonials as Evidence)
>Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 01:15:19 -0500
>
>Hi Marylynn,
>Some do volunteer to be tested. I saw one woman, a psychic, from
>California in a documentary,
>I think on the Learning Channel. Anyway, she was filmed for the test. She
>was presented
>a person with a disease. That is all she knew. First she located the area 
>of
>the disease.
>It was in the abdomen and she found the diseased area quickly. It was a
>cancerous
>tumor. Then she worked on the area using energy techniques (Reiki, Qi
>Gong?). The camera switched
>over to infrared. As she worked on the man, you could see the tumor
>shrinking. She did not
>touch the man. Within an hour the tumor had essentially disappeared. This 
>is
>not science but it was very dramatic.
>This documentary was filmed in Japan, I believe. I don't remember the
>woman's name.
>Maybe someone else has details on this? It was perhaps three or four years
>ago when I saw
>this.
>I think being sick with a dis-ease happens to get our attention & to teach
>us something.
>Peace, D. Mindock
>
>- Original Message -
>From: "Marylynn Schmidt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: 
>Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 7:24 PM
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness (Was Hypnosis as
>AnesthesiaWasTestimonials as Evidence)
>
>
> > Anyone who "looks and listens" at what is daily offered will have a life
> > full of wonders and with wonders there comes something called gratitude
> > for
> > being even momentarily allowed to witness/experience that particular 
>gift.
> >
> > But it's been my observation to observe that many people do not and/or 
>can
> > not accept what is placed before them.
> >
> > They do not and/or can not accept for a variety of reasons .. these
> > reasons
> > range from truly not being able to see/hear all the way to having placed
> > their being-ness (other wo/m