Re: [svg-developers] MAX2005: Some Flash stuff ...and something about the Ele...

[John Dowdell]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The link didn't have much meat about why the Macromedia CEO isn't scared of  
> Sparkle, I note. I wonder if he had a solid-fronted podium so that the 
> audience  couldn't see his knees knocking? :)

People were actually walking around on the stage, no podium. ;-)

(I haven't seen much of a company stance on Sparkle or other 
announcements... we can see technology previews, and these have some 
good principles (vectors, network requests, visuals enhancing 
accessibility, etc), but until it's finalized and shipping things can 
change. Then after that there's the audience and their needs to 
consider...!)


Ronan Oger wrote:
 > Well, it was a keynote. The future is great. Everything is fine.
 > I agree, there was not much meat. Maybe the keynote transcript
 > is published somewhere with more...? If so, I am sure our MM
 > friends will happily pass it on to us.

Here's the most rigorous in-house reporting:
http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/max2005/

And lots more informal reporting from various participants:
http://snipurl.com/max_smartcategory
(redirects to the MXNA aggregator & its "MAX" ad-hoc category)

I haven't seen text or video transcripts yet. I've scanned the various 
news articles (including the one which started this thread), but these 
are often as much about the reporter as about the event.


 > I wonder increasingly if our little world won't realign itself
 > from SVG vs MM to SVG + MM vs WMF.

I don't have much info here, but my current personal expectation is 
that, some time after the Adobe deal closes, there will be some type of 
technology roadmap. I haven't seen much aversion to SVG at Macromedia, 
although this has often gotten mixed with reaction to the "boo SWF bad!" 
types of campaigns. Things seem open to me.


Doug Schepers wrote:
 > Perhaps it's optimistic of me, but I keep thinking that one
 > of the goals of SVG was to be a vector-graphics interchange
 > format. Not a Flash-killer, not a Sparkle-desparkler, but
 > as an open-standard shared medium that IDEs for each could
 > export to.
 > Sure, there are features that are specific to each of SVG,
 > XAML-stuff, and Flash, but there's also got to be a good
 > bit of common ground. I'm hoping that SVG flourishes in
 > that common ground.

This sounds good to me too, thanks for writing that, Doug. :)



Jerrold Maddox wrote:
 > My view has been that SVGs potential is not as a Flash killer,
 > but a way to create documents that get the best out of XHTML,
 > PDF and Flash - a very effective way to present information
 > efficiently, appropriately and gracefully, which none of
 > these three formats do now.

I'm with you on this, too. That mention of PDF is important -- I'd 
suspect that this format, runtime, and ecology will be quite important 
in any future roadmaps.


jd







-- 
John Dowdell . Macromedia Developer Support . San Francisco CA USA
Weblog: http://www.macromedia.com/go/blog_jd
Aggregator: http://www.macromedia.com/go/weblogs
Technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/
Spam killed my private email -- public record is best, thanks.


 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk back!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/T8sf5C/tzNLAA/TtwFAA/1U_rlB/TM
~-> 

-
To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-or-
visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my 
membership"
 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

RE: [svg-developers] MAX2005: Some Flash stuff ...and something about the Ele...

[Jerrold Maddox]

My view has been that SVGs potential is not as a Flash killer, but 
but a way to create documents that get the best out of XHTML, PDF and 
Flash - a very effective way to present information efficiently, 
appropriately and gracefully, which none of these three formats do 
now .

What is wrong with that picture?

Jerry

>Perhaps it's optimistic of me, but I keep thinking that one of the goals of
>SVG was to be a vector-graphics interchange format. Not a Flash-killer, not
>a Sparkle-desparkler, but as an open-standard shared medium that IDEs for
>each could export to.
>
>Sure, there are features that are specific to each of SVG, XAML-stuff, and
>Flash, but there's also got to be a good bit of common ground. I'm hoping
>that SVG flourishes in that common ground.
>
>Regards-
>Doug
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>www.vectoreal.com ...for scalable solutions.
>
>
>
>-
>To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>-or-
>visit 
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers
> 
>and click "edit my membership"
>
>
>
>SPONSORED LINKS
><'"http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Computer+internet+security&w1=Computer+internet+security&w2=Computer+internet+business&w3=Computer+internet+access&w4=Computer+internet+privacy+securities&w5=Computer+internet+help&w6=How+to+format+a+computer+hard+dri>Computer
> 
>internet security 
><'"http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Computer+internet+business&w1=Computer+internet+security&w2=Computer+internet+business&w3=Computer+internet+access&w4=Computer+internet+privacy+securities&w5=Computer+internet+help&w6=How+to+format+a+computer+hard+dri>Computer
> 
>internet business 
><'"http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Computer+internet+access&w1=Computer+internet+security&w2=Computer+internet+business&w3=Computer+internet+access&w4=Computer+internet+privacy+securities&w5=Computer+internet+help&w6=How+to+format+a+computer+hard+drive>Computer
> 
>internet access 
><'"http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Computer+internet+privacy+securities&w1=Computer+internet+security&w2=Computer+internet+business&w3=Computer+internet+access&w4=Computer+internet+privacy+securities&w5=Computer+internet+help&w6=How+to+format+a+compute>Computer
> 
>internet privacy securities 
><'"http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Computer+internet+help&w1=Computer+internet+security&w2=Computer+internet+business&w3=Computer+internet+access&w4=Computer+internet+privacy+securities&w5=Computer+internet+help&w6=How+to+format+a+computer+hard+drive&c>Computer
> 
>internet help 
><'"http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=How+to+format+a+computer+hard+drive&w1=Computer+internet+security&w2=Computer+internet+business&w3=Computer+internet+access&w4=Computer+internet+privacy+securities&w5=Computer+internet+help&w6=How+to+format+a+computer>How
> 
>to format a computer hard drive
>
>
>YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>  Visit your group 
>"svg-developers" on 
>the web.
>
>  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> 
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the 
>Yahoo! Terms of Service.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk back!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/T8sf5C/tzNLAA/TtwFAA/1U_rlB/TM
~-> 

-
To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-or-
visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my 
membership"
 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

RE: [svg-developers] MAX2005: Some Flash stuff ...and something about the Ele...

[Doug Schepers]

Perhaps it's optimistic of me, but I keep thinking that one of the goals of
SVG was to be a vector-graphics interchange format. Not a Flash-killer, not
a Sparkle-desparkler, but as an open-standard shared medium that IDEs for
each could export to.

Sure, there are features that are specific to each of SVG, XAML-stuff, and
Flash, but there's also got to be a good bit of common ground. I'm hoping
that SVG flourishes in that common ground.

Regards-
Doug

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.vectoreal.com ...for scalable solutions.



 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk back!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/T8sf5C/tzNLAA/TtwFAA/1U_rlB/TM
~-> 

-
To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-or-
visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my 
membership"
 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

Re: [svg-developers] MAX2005: Some Flash stuff ...and something about the Ele...

[david dailey]

At 07:25 AM 10/21/2005, Ronan wrote:

>I wonder increasingly if our little world won't realign itself from SVG vs MM
>to SVG + MM vs WMF.
I think if I were calling the shots for Adobe I would make SVG and 
Flash as allied and integrated as possible. If I were calling the 
shots for Microsoft, I would probably realize that it's going to take 
a while for Adobe/Macromedia to iron out where they stand in the SVG 
/ Flash thing so I'd inject huge amounts of SVG into MS products -- 
stealing, perhaps, a bit of thunder from Flash's proprietary 
ubiquity.  You can see from my naivete why I am in the ivory tower.

Instead I'll just buy an irony board to flatten out any emergent wrinkles. 



 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk back!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/T8sf5C/tzNLAA/TtwFAA/1U_rlB/TM
~-> 

-
To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-or-
visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my 
membership"
 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

Re: [svg-developers] MAX2005: Some Flash stuff ...and something about the Ele...

[AndrewWatt2001]

 
In a message dated 21/10/2005 12:26:35 GMT Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
writes:

I wonder  increasingly if our little world won't realign itself from SVG vs 
MM 
to  SVG + MM vs WMF.


Yes, Ronan, I think some realignment is likely.
 
I see some almighty battles as likely/possible:
 
e.g.
 
SVG vs XAML (? vs Flash?)
 
SVGT vs WPF/E (Windows Presentation Foundation/Everywhere, if I understand  
the broad aim of that stuff correctly)
 
PDF vs XPS (which I think has changed its name to ???) (?vs SVG?)
 
XHTML vs Ajax vs WBA (Windows Browser Apps)
 
Those may not be the precise battle lines, but it looks as if the whole  
space (I am not even sure there is an all-encompassing term for it - the "Human 
 
Presentation" space, perhaps?) is going to undergo a fairly significant shake 
up  in the next couple of years.
 
There is going to be an interesting play off of several factors including  
ease of development, improved workflow, cross-platform availability etc  etc.
 
SVG would have been in a much stronger position, I think, if Adobe  hadn't 
thrown the brakes on around Q4 2001.
 
As the Chinese curse allegedly says "We live in interesting times!"  :)
 
Andrew Watt


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk back!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/T8sf5C/tzNLAA/TtwFAA/1U_rlB/TM
~-> 

-
To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-or-
visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my 
membership"
 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

Re: [svg-developers] MAX2005: Some Flash stuff ...and something about the Ele...

[Ronan Oger]

Andrew, 

[irrelevant] WPF.  s/P/T/ ? ;-)

Well, it was a keynote. The future is great. Everything is fine. I agree, 
there was not much meat. Maybe the keynote transcript is published somewhere 
with more...? If so, I am sure our MM friends will happily pass it on to us.

This is obviously a dangerous place to talk about MM since we always end up in 
some wierd flame-soup that clogs our mailboxes for days on end. 

I wonder increasingly if our little world won't realign itself from SVG vs MM 
to SVG + MM vs WMF.

Ronan

On Friday 21 October 2005 04:56, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>  Ronan,
>
>  Avalon is now Windows Presentation Framework.
>
>  The link didn't have much meat about why the Macromedia CEO isn't scared
> of  Sparkle, I note. I wonder if he had a solid-fronted podium so that the
> audience  couldn't see his knees knocking? :)
>
>  Andrew Watt
>
>  In a message dated 21/10/2005 11:26:26 GMT Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  writes:
>
>  I came  across this Flash writeup about the keynote at MAX2005, some sort
> of  conference ;-) .
>
>  Flash people appear to feel quite confident  regarding our common risk:
> MS's  Avalon (or is it now sparkle?, or  sprinkle?, or tinkle?). Also, it
> seems MM products are making significant  headway with rich web apps. it
> will be interesting to see where Flash 8  goes with rich web  apps.
>
>  http://java.sys-con.com/read/142287.htm
>
>  MAX 2005 –  "Where's Flash Going?": Macromedia's CEO Wows Developers,
> Tells Microsoft  to "Try Again"
>  Stephen Elop Throws Down the Gauntlet to Redmond in Day 1  Keynote Address
> in Anaheim, CA
>
>
>  As anticipated by MX Developer's  Journal for several weeks, Macromedia
> CEO Stephen Elop (pictured) used his  keynote address at Day One of MAX
> 2005 here in Anaheim, CA, to blaze with  all guns firing – Macromedia's
> powerful Flash and Flex guns in particular.  Plus for good measure Elop
> delivered a combative
>  message to Microsoft, in  relation to their would-be Flash-killer,
> Expression Studio..."Try again!"
>  In one of the most memorable statistics of the entire keynote, Elop noted 
>  that
>  the download rate of Macromedia Flash Player 8 is now so rapid that 
> during the course of the keynote, about 400,000 Flash Players would have 
> been downloaded and installed.
>  He also gave some powerful examples of  Rich Internet Applications that
> bring real-world benefits in terms of what  business likes most: profits.
>
>  ...
>
>  Ronan
>
>  --
>  Ronan  Oger

-- 
Ronan Oger

Vectoreal
...for scaleable solutions

http://www.vectoreal.com

Tel: +41 76 527 3552
Fax: +41 44 274 2402

ronan dot oger at vectoreal dot com


 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Get Bzzzy! (real tools to help you find a job). Welcome to the Sweet Life.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/A77XvD/vlQLAA/TtwFAA/1U_rlB/TM
~-> 

-
To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-or-
visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my 
membership"
 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

Re: [svg-developers] MAX2005: Some Flash stuff ...and something about the Ele...

[AndrewWatt2001]

 
Mini-oops! 
 
I should have said that Avalon is now Windows Presentation  Foundation.
 
Andrew Watt
 
In a message dated 21/10/2005 11:57:18 GMT Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Ronan,

Avalon is now Windows Presentation Framework. 

The  link didn't have much meat about why the Macromedia CEO isn't scared of  
 
Sparkle, I note. I wonder if he had a solid-fronted podium so that the  
audience  couldn't see his knees knocking? :)

Andrew  Watt

In a message dated 21/10/2005 11:26:26 GMT Daylight Time,  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
writes:

I came  across this Flash  writeup about the keynote at MAX2005, some sort of 
 
conference ;-)  .

Flash people appear to feel quite confident  regarding our  common risk: MS's 
 
Avalon (or is it now sparkle?, or  sprinkle?,  or tinkle?). Also, it seems MM 
products are making significant   headway with rich web apps. it will be 
interesting to see where Flash  8  goes with rich web   apps.

http://java.sys-con.com/read/142287.htm

MAX 2005 –   "Where's Flash Going?": Macromedia's CEO Wows Developers, Tells  
Microsoft  to "Try Again"
Stephen Elop Throws Down the Gauntlet to  Redmond in Day 1  Keynote Address 
in 
Anaheim, CA


As  anticipated by MX Developer's  Journal for several weeks, Macromedia CEO  
Stephen Elop (pictured) used his  keynote address at Day One of MAX  2005 
here 
in Anaheim, CA, to blaze with  all guns firing –  Macromedia's powerful Flash 
and Flex guns in particular.  Plus for  good measure Elop delivered a 
combative 
message to Microsoft, in   relation to their would-be Flash-killer, 
Expression 
Studio..."Try  again!"  
In one of the most memorable statistics of the entire  keynote, Elop noted  
that 
the download rate of Macromedia Flash  Player 8 is now so rapid that  during 
the course of the keynote,  about 400,000 Flash Players would have  been 
downloaded and  installed. 
He also gave some powerful examples of  Rich Internet  Applications that 
bring 
real-world benefits in terms of what   business likes most: profits.

...

Ronan

--  
Ronan  Oger






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Get Bzzzy! (real tools to help you find a job). Welcome to the Sweet Life.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/A77XvD/vlQLAA/TtwFAA/1U_rlB/TM
~-> 

-
To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-or-
visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my 
membership"
 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

Re: [svg-developers] MAX2005: Some Flash stuff ...and something about the Ele...

[AndrewWatt2001]

 
Ronan,
 
Avalon is now Windows Presentation Framework. 
 
The link didn't have much meat about why the Macromedia CEO isn't scared of  
Sparkle, I note. I wonder if he had a solid-fronted podium so that the 
audience  couldn't see his knees knocking? :)
 
Andrew Watt
 
In a message dated 21/10/2005 11:26:26 GMT Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
writes:

I came  across this Flash writeup about the keynote at MAX2005, some sort of  
conference ;-) .

Flash people appear to feel quite confident  regarding our common risk: MS's  
Avalon (or is it now sparkle?, or  sprinkle?, or tinkle?). Also, it seems MM 
products are making significant  headway with rich web apps. it will be 
interesting to see where Flash 8  goes with rich web  apps.

http://java.sys-con.com/read/142287.htm

MAX 2005 –  "Where's Flash Going?": Macromedia's CEO Wows Developers, Tells 
Microsoft  to "Try Again"
Stephen Elop Throws Down the Gauntlet to Redmond in Day 1  Keynote Address in 
Anaheim, CA


As anticipated by MX Developer's  Journal for several weeks, Macromedia CEO 
Stephen Elop (pictured) used his  keynote address at Day One of MAX 2005 here 
in Anaheim, CA, to blaze with  all guns firing – Macromedia's powerful Flash 
and Flex guns in particular.  Plus for good measure Elop delivered a 
combative 
message to Microsoft, in  relation to their would-be Flash-killer, Expression 
Studio..."Try again!"  
In one of the most memorable statistics of the entire keynote, Elop noted  
that 
the download rate of Macromedia Flash Player 8 is now so rapid that  during 
the course of the keynote, about 400,000 Flash Players would have  been 
downloaded and installed. 
He also gave some powerful examples of  Rich Internet Applications that bring 
real-world benefits in terms of what  business likes most: profits.

...

Ronan

-- 
Ronan  Oger






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk back!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/T8sf5C/tzNLAA/TtwFAA/1U_rlB/TM
~-> 

-
To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-or-
visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my 
membership"
 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/