[OSM-talk] Names for places based on OSM - OpenStreetBlock

[Michal Migurski]

Mike Frumin put together a neat service that generates human-readable names 
based on nearby OSM ways:
http://frumin.net/ation/2011/04/openstreetblock.html

I makes strings like "14th St between 6th Ave and 7th Ave", currently just for 
NYC data.

-mike.


michal migurski- m...@stamen.com
 415.558.1610




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Re: [OSM-talk] Examples of OSM used in Transport Planning?

[Richard Weait]

On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 12:27 PM, Mikel Maron  wrote:
> Thanks all for the suggestions. I posted the slides and did a quick write
> up:
> http://groundtruthinitiative.org/2011/03/31/openstreetmap-and-transport-presentation-to-the-world-bank-transport-forum/

And thanks from me too.  I've got an OSM presentation tomorrow and
I've referred to this thread, and Mikel's deck several times.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Okay, this is just cool (Lockport, NY)

[Matthias Julius]

David Murn  writes:

> Based on andrzej's email correspondence, where it was pointed out that
> the relevant point in ToS is in regards to 'mass downloads or bulk feeds
> of any content', I assume this means that we cant automate the process
> from googles resources (such as the bing street tracer), but that
> individual use is fine ('checking the odd street name is okay').

I have read that a bit differently: If you come across an odd street
name in OSM (or some random street without a name) you may check it in
StreetView.  But, you may not go through an area in StreetView and
systematically add every street name you find -- automated or not.

Matthias

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Re: [OSM-talk] News from the London Hack Weekend

[Richard Weait]

>> @Firefishy says: Potlatch 2 is now the default editor on
>> #OpenStreetMap #PL2FTW #OSM

Other news from the Hack Weekend (distilled from twitter and #osm-dev)

Several devs were working on projects remotely, including iandees on
jxapi, Komzpa on translations, apmon on api(?)

smsm1 nailed an arcane error in the rails port.

dankarran improved osm.org for mobile screens

gregory announced toiletmap.org

gravitystorm ran a git workshop (though I hear you are supposed to
call them students) and a Rails port workshop.

SteveC called zere a socialist and revealed that Matt had been
consumed by new overlords ;-)
http://twitter.com/richardf/status/54199182612905984
http://yfrog.com/h8w1uecj

cyclestreets added some goodies and had some help from twain47

A SotM ad was added to the osm.org front page.

and surely many many more things, great and small that I missed in my
quick scan.

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Re: [OSM-talk] News from the London Hack Weekend

[Mike N]

On 4/3/2011 1:17 PM, Richard Weait wrote:

@Firefishy says: Potlatch 2 is now the default editor on
#OpenStreetMap #PL2FTW #OSM


  Excellent!  Glad to see the Potlatch 2 default.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Okay, this is just cool (Lockport, NY)

[David Murn]

On Sun, 2011-04-03 at 12:03 +0200, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote:

> The Google StreetView database isn't in Europe, it doesn't
> have anyspecial conditions attached to its use, 
>
> it has. At least if there aren't for Streetview in particular, the
> ones of Googlemaps in general do apply.

How do you assume that?  Do the terms for google maps also apply to
google news and google images too?  Google street-view is a different
product to google maps, it is a product they own and have created.

Google maps contains data that Google has licenced from other sources
(teleatlas, geoeye, europa, etc).  This map data, Google cannot
relicence.

Google street-view is a google product, created by google, which they
own 100% of the rights to.  The terms of use of both these products may
be similar, but given that the map data is covered under many different
terms, I doubt that all those restrictions have been placed on
street-view.

Based on andrzej's email correspondence, where it was pointed out that
the relevant point in ToS is in regards to 'mass downloads or bulk feeds
of any content', I assume this means that we cant automate the process
from googles resources (such as the bing street tracer), but that
individual use is fine ('checking the odd street name is okay').

>From reading andrzej's email it seems as though Google would be happy to
help out, but they believe OSM is complete and up-to-date in the areas
they have coverage.

David


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Re: [OSM-talk] Okay, this is just cool (Lockport, NY)

[yvecai]

On 03. 04. 11 12:46, Elizabeth Dodd wrote:

On Sun, 3 Apr 2011 12:03:16 +0200
M∡rtin Koppenhoefer  wrote:


2011/4/3 Elizabeth Dodd


While I'm not in the habit of collecting information from Google
StreetView, it is fair to say that if I go to the public library
and in the thousands of volumes there I find one with the
assistance of the old card catalogue and the Dewey assignment of
books, then no one is concerned about my use of the library
database to find my book.



because they consent the use of the database to find books. Also
Google Streetview consents the use of their database, but they have
ToS associated with that use, and if you use their db, you agree to
be subject to their ToS.

But is that legally binding?
Click Through licence agreements are not binding everywhere, so
actually, I don't agree to be subject to their ToS.





The Google StreetView database isn't in Europe, it doesn't have any

special conditions attached to its use,



it has. At least if there aren't for Streetview in particular, the
ones of Googlemaps in general do apply.



You of course think like an engineer, and I don't.
You know quite well that I meant that there was no European Database
Rights attached to the database, and you deliberately ignore that to
strike what you believe will be a killer blow.

What you state might be true under European law, but it doesn't work
where I am. I can do as Pieren states, and that is interpret
information I see in those photographs and reuse the information I
interpret. There's no special account here of the click-through licence
(mainly because the contract is one-sided and non-negotiable), and the
database has no particular protection in the law.

I still would rather take my own photographs.

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And why not just be fair? Does Google agrees OSM uses Streetview to map 
or not?
If they do, just wait for a formal agreement. If they don't, take your 
own camera.

Yves

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[OSM-talk] News from the London Hack Weekend

[Richard Weait]

@Firefishy says: Potlatch 2 is now the default editor on
#OpenStreetMap #PL2FTW #OSM

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[OSM-talk] SWG: Articles of Association sub-committee

[Richard Weait]

The Strategic Working Group has been tasked with looking at the
Articles of Association for the OSMF.  A sub-committee of the SWG has
formed to look at this and they need your participation[1].  If you
have an interest in the AoA, have stated previous concerns about them,
or have an interest in increased, but time bounded, participation in
OSMF Working Groups, this might be the group for you to participate
in.

Let us know, on the strategic@ mailing list[3].

[1] 
http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Working_Group_Minutes/SWG_2011-03-25#Minutes
[2] 
http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Working_Group_Minutes#Strategic_Working_Group
[3] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/strategic

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Re: [OSM-talk] Okay, this is just cool (Lockport, NY)

[Elizabeth Dodd]

On Sun, 3 Apr 2011 12:03:16 +0200
M∡rtin Koppenhoefer  wrote:

> 2011/4/3 Elizabeth Dodd 
> 
> > While I'm not in the habit of collecting information from Google
> > StreetView, it is fair to say that if I go to the public library
> > and in the thousands of volumes there I find one with the
> > assistance of the old card catalogue and the Dewey assignment of
> > books, then no one is concerned about my use of the library
> > database to find my book.
> >
> 
> 
> because they consent the use of the database to find books. Also
> Google Streetview consents the use of their database, but they have
> ToS associated with that use, and if you use their db, you agree to
> be subject to their ToS.

But is that legally binding?
Click Through licence agreements are not binding everywhere, so
actually, I don't agree to be subject to their ToS.



> 
> 
> The Google StreetView database isn't in Europe, it doesn't have any
> > special conditions attached to its use,
> 
> 
> 
> it has. At least if there aren't for Streetview in particular, the
> ones of Googlemaps in general do apply.
> 
>
You of course think like an engineer, and I don't.
You know quite well that I meant that there was no European Database
Rights attached to the database, and you deliberately ignore that to
strike what you believe will be a killer blow.

What you state might be true under European law, but it doesn't work
where I am. I can do as Pieren states, and that is interpret
information I see in those photographs and reuse the information I
interpret. There's no special account here of the click-through licence
(mainly because the contract is one-sided and non-negotiable), and the
database has no particular protection in the law.

I still would rather take my own photographs.

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Re: [OSM-talk] April fools that should have been

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 04/02/2011 11:52 PM, Dave F. wrote:



Why are April fools neither witty or funny any more?


They ceased to be worthwhile the moment you stopped making any, of course.

Bye
Frederik

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Re: [OSM-talk] Okay, this is just cool (Lockport, NY)

[M∡rtin Koppenhoefer]

2011/4/3 Elizabeth Dodd 

> While I'm not in the habit of collecting information from Google
> StreetView, it is fair to say that if I go to the public library and in the
> thousands of volumes there I find one with the assistance of the old
> card catalogue and the Dewey assignment of books, then no one is
> concerned about my use of the library database to find my book.
>


because they consent the use of the database to find books. Also Google
Streetview consents the use of their database, but they have ToS associated
with that use, and if you use their db, you agree to be subject to their
ToS.


The Google StreetView database isn't in Europe, it doesn't have any
> special conditions attached to its use,



it has. At least if there aren't for Streetview in particular, the ones of
Googlemaps in general do apply.


cheers,
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] Okay, this is just cool (Lockport, NY)

[Elizabeth Dodd]

On Sun, 3 Apr 2011 11:24:32 +0200
M∡rtin Koppenhoefer  wrote:

> without their database (i.e. georeferenced images made available
> through the streetview api) you would never be able to find your
> house in billions of fotos, nor know where a certain foto was taken
> for 99,9% of their fotos (which are not taken in the small world
> of your personal knowledge).
> 
> I am not a lawyer, and I am not sure whether streetview fotos are
> protectable or not (and whether they are actually protected in the
> current form they are made available), but I think that you see it in
> a too simplistic way.

While I'm not in the habit of collecting information from Google
StreetView, it is fair to say that if I go to the public library and in the
thousands of volumes there I find one with the assistance of the old
card catalogue and the Dewey assignment of books, then no one is
concerned about my use of the library database to find my book.
The law then states how much I can copy (this varies in different
countries, I give no example) out of that particular book.

The Google StreetView database isn't in Europe, it doesn't have any
special conditions attached to its use, so how will using that database
to find my particular building in a photograph be relevant to the the
information contained in the photograph?


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Re: [OSM-talk] Okay, this is just cool (Lockport, NY)

[M∡rtin Koppenhoefer]

2011/4/2 Pieren 

> Yes, they transform the images for panoramas. But we don't trace over these
> images, we don't reuse what they added. We just look the content of the
> picture. If they take a picture of your house, the house and all its
> attributes (colour, shape) is not a property of Google
>


+1



> because we see these attributes through a picture from Google. It has
> nothing, absolutely nothing to do with derivative work.
>


without their database (i.e. georeferenced images made available through the
streetview api) you would never be able to find your house in billions of
fotos, nor know where a certain foto was taken for 99,9% of their fotos
(which are not taken in the small world of your personal knowledge).

I am not a lawyer, and I am not sure whether streetview fotos are
protectable or not (and whether they are actually protected in the current
form they are made available), but I think that you see it in a too
simplistic way.

cheers,
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] April fools that should have been

[M∡rtin Koppenhoefer]

2011/4/3 Russ Nelson 

> Dave F. writes:
>  > Why are April fools neither witty or funny any more?
>
> Clearly you didn't see http://OpenWhateverMap.org/
>
>
>

this is brilliant. Would make a nice osm.org frontpage map (if it wasn't to
consume too much bandwidth on smaller servers/maps)

cheers,
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] Okay, this is just cool (Lockport, NY)

[andrzej zaborowski]

On 3 April 2011 09:29, Ed Avis  wrote:
> Could you forward Google's reply to this list?

I probably can since this is an inquiry about Google stuff. (I followed up)

On Friday April 01, 2011 2:21 PM, Ed Parsons  wrote:
> Hi Andrzej
>
> What do you want to do?  the relevant clause in the terms of service is..
>
> 2(e) use the Products in a manner that gives you or any other person access 
> to mass downloads or bulk feeds of any Content, including but not limited to 
> numerical latitude or longitude coordinates, imagery, and visible map data;
>
> so checking the odd street names is OK.. but every street name I would 
> suggest would represent a bulk feed.
>
> Surely OSM is complete and up to date in those areas where street view is 
> available ?
>
> On 31 March 2011 21:25, Andrzej Zaborowski 
> mailto:andrew.zaborow...@intel.com>> wrote:
> Hello Ed,
>
> I'm writing to you because you've been responsive the last time I had
> a question about Google Maps services, thanks.
>
> There's some demand for a source of information like Google Street
> View, for use as a mapping aid for us, OpenStreetMappers.  Do you
> think there's any chance of that happening?  As you know we take
> Terms of Use seriously, so we'd need a statement from someone
> like you that it's Ok for us to use Google Street View.  It would be
> wonderful help to this project, really.
>
> Cheers,
> Andrew
>
> On 31 March 2011 22:10, andrzej zaborowski 
> mailto:balr...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> On 31 March 2011 18:23, Ed Avis 
>> mailto:e...@waniasset.com>> wrote:
>>> Has anyone simply asked Google for permission to use Google Street View as a
>>> mapping aid?
>>
>> For the record, in East Europe where Google Street View has no
>> coverage, there's a an almost identical service provided by Norc.ro,
>> who explicitly allow usage in OSM.  And I have to say it's extra
>> useful, you can usually see all of the street signs, phone numbers on
>> shops' front windows and many other things.  If you've missed
>> something during survey you can go back "virtually" and fix it.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Ed Parsons,
> Geospatial Technologist
> Google
>
> Mobile: +44 (0)78 2538 2263
> Personal blog www.edparsons.com
> VC 38814629
> Registered Office: Belgrave House, 76 Buckingham Palace Road, London SW1W 9TQ
> Registered in England Number: 3977902
>
> "It's better to be a pirate than to join the Navy."

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