Re: [OSM-talk] New OpenStreetMap iPhone Editor - Mapzen POI Collector
On Dec 7, 2009, at 7:16 AM, Frederik Ramm wrote: > Nick, Oleg, > >thank you for answering. > > I'm quite surprised that you are working directly from the API. Nick writes: > >> The server is actually quite responsive for POIs - maybe its because >> node queries are faster than way queries and because the bboxes are >> generally very small (equal to a few tiles). > > I can imagine that the server is responsive enough if you query for a > simple POI, or a number of them. But to the best of my knowledge, the > 0.6 API has no call that lets you retrieve only nodes in a certain bbox. > So do you initially do a slow "give me everything in this bbox" call and > simply discard ways and relations? I guess so, I've not looked at the code, but even then it only lets you do that when you're zoomed all the way to z17 or something, so there are very few other things to return. Yours &c. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New OpenStreetMap iPhone Editor - Mapzen POI Collector
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Peter Körner schreef: >> Well TRAPI already exists for the purpose of providing efficient read >> only access to the data for an area. > > From the TRAPI wiki page: > > Trapi does not store all tags, so Trapi data should not be used to > > edit and upload back to openstreetmap. There are other implementation that current serve all tags ;) Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.13 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAksdKSoACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn1jwwCdHzOUUiiWj6Km0wyZLEQK2tqq 12QAni37FuAgUvtJ36YF25l+URe7uwBp =vEgH -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New OpenStreetMap iPhone Editor - Mapzen POI Collector
> Well TRAPI already exists for the purpose of providing efficient read > only access to the data for an area. From the TRAPI wiki page: > Trapi does not store all tags, so Trapi data should not be used to > edit and upload back to openstreetmap. Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New OpenStreetMap iPhone Editor - Mapzen POI Collector
>A call to get only points is certainly something we could add and it >would certainly save quite a bit of work on the server over the normal >map call and hence hopefully speed things up. What would be really good, I think, to avoid conflicts is to add some API code which refuses to add a POI if there is a POI with the same name and "type" tags within a certain distance. It could be optional (the client could send a flag to the server to tell it to reject duplicates) but it would certainly open up a lot of possibilities client-side to develop easy to use POI editing applications. Nick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New OpenStreetMap iPhone Editor - Mapzen POI Collector
On 07/12/09 14:16, Frederik Ramm wrote: > Nick, Oleg, > > thank you for answering. > > I'm quite surprised that you are working directly from the API. Nick writes: > >> The server is actually quite responsive for POIs - maybe its because >> node queries are faster than way queries and because the bboxes are >> generally very small (equal to a few tiles). > > I can imagine that the server is responsive enough if you query for a > simple POI, or a number of them. But to the best of my knowledge, the > 0.6 API has no call that lets you retrieve only nodes in a certain bbox. > So do you initially do a slow "give me everything in this bbox" call and > simply discard ways and relations? A call to get only points is certainly something we could add and it would certainly save quite a bit of work on the server over the normal map call and hence hopefully speed things up. >> around conflicts though. An alternative is to speed up the main OSM >> server - this is good because then everyone in the community benefits >> (eg Potlatch and other editor users) and mainly because it reduces >> issues around conflicts. If we ended up doing a CM XAPI, we'd open up >> access to anyone who wanted to use it anyway, so other editors and >> mappers could benefit. > > There's surely a lot of potential benefits for the community at large in > there. I think the OSM admins may already have the idea of replication > on their radars, where read requests are fulfilled from a different > server than the writes go to. I don't know if that would be a > replication on the Postres level or on the application level. Well TRAPI already exists for the purpose of providing efficient read only access to the data for an area. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New OpenStreetMap iPhone Editor - Mapzen POI Collector
Nick, Oleg, thank you for answering. I'm quite surprised that you are working directly from the API. Nick writes: > The server is actually quite responsive for POIs - maybe its because > node queries are faster than way queries and because the bboxes are > generally very small (equal to a few tiles). I can imagine that the server is responsive enough if you query for a simple POI, or a number of them. But to the best of my knowledge, the 0.6 API has no call that lets you retrieve only nodes in a certain bbox. So do you initially do a slow "give me everything in this bbox" call and simply discard ways and relations? > around conflicts though. An alternative is to speed up the main OSM > server - this is good because then everyone in the community benefits > (eg Potlatch and other editor users) and mainly because it reduces > issues around conflicts. If we ended up doing a CM XAPI, we'd open up > access to anyone who wanted to use it anyway, so other editors and > mappers could benefit. There's surely a lot of potential benefits for the community at large in there. I think the OSM admins may already have the idea of replication on their radars, where read requests are fulfilled from a different server than the writes go to. I don't know if that would be a replication on the Postres level or on the application level. Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New OpenStreetMap iPhone Editor - Mapzen POI Collector
Hi Frederick, Answers below. Oleg Shaniuk is the CM developer who presented about Mapzen POI Collector at SOTM - he'll be able to give more detail than me. On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 12:28 AM, Frederik Ramm wrote: > Nick, > > Nick Black wrote: >> >> Mapzen POI Collector is a free iPhone app that makes it really easy to >> collect POIs for OpenStreetMap. Users locate themselves using the >> iPhone's built in GPS, position a pin at the location of the POI they >> want to add and then choose from a range of pre-selected categories. > > I'm lacking an iPhone myself so excuse me if my questions are stupid. I'm > interested in hearing about some technology aspects behind the POI collector > (unless these are terribly secret). There are no stupid questions - only stupid people who don't ask questions :-) > > I assume that the POI collector not only lets you collect new POIs but also > modify existing ones. For this, the existing ones must be shown as active > elements on the map that the device displays. Given that the OSM server > proper is too slow to answer real-time "give me POIs in my vicinity" > queries, and given that XAPI is not generally reliable for anything > commercial grade, I assume that you are using your own XAPI-like POI > database which tracks changes from the main OSM server and feeds them to the > iPhone users, is that correct? Mapzen POI Collector talks to the live OSM server - both to read and write. We looked at created a XAPI like server, but the for the first versions of all of the Mapzen tools we decided it was not worth it. The server is actually quite responsive for POIs - maybe its because node queries are faster than way queries and because the bboxes are generally very small (equal to a few tiles). The fact that everything is slow due to network latency and the general slowness of 3G networks in EU + US has a perverse effect of the user experience in that both the tiles and POIs load slowly, lessening the impact of slow loading POIs. The Mapzen Editor (mapzen.cloudmade.com) is another matter. The data can load very slowly - its a common user complaint. Going forward we'll want to speed up loading data into the Mapzen editor a lot. We have some ideas about how to do this on the client side (happy to share if anyone is interested), but the bottleneck is going to be the server. Having a XAPI like server would let us split requests for different layers and generally speed things up. It does raise issues around conflicts though. An alternative is to speed up the main OSM server - this is good because then everyone in the community benefits (eg Potlatch and other editor users) and mainly because it reduces issues around conflicts. If we ended up doing a CM XAPI, we'd open up access to anyone who wanted to use it anyway, so other editors and mappers could benefit. > > Are you simply getting a feed that is close to real-time as possible and > then let the device send updates directly to the OSM server, and what do you > do in the hopefully rare case of an editing conflict? As we're reading from and writing to live OSM, conflicts are rare. It would be pretty cool to be standing outside a shop, adding it as a POI with Mapzen, only to discover an OSMer standing next to you, adding the same shop with Vespucci. Its going to happen sooner or later... -- Nick Black twitter.com/nick_b ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New OpenStreetMap iPhone Editor - Mapzen POI Collector
2009/12/4 Frederik Ramm : > Nick, > I assume that the POI collector not only lets you collect new POIs but > also modify existing ones. For this, the existing ones must be shown as > active elements on the map that the device displays. Given that the OSM > server proper is too slow to answer real-time "give me POIs in my > vicinity" queries, and given that XAPI is not generally reliable for > anything commercial grade, I assume that you are using your own > XAPI-like POI database which tracks changes from the main OSM server and > feeds them to the iPhone users, is that correct? > quick reply... it is late. Mapzen POI is using the map live OSM API. (from what I can see) A single changeset is opened at the beginning of an active edit session. Standard API PUT node/create create is used to add POIs. Multiple POIs can be added in a single changeset session. Example: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/3278944 Example map query: /api/0.6/map?bbox=8.202985,49.656840,8.206418,49.660035 (lang: de-de) / Grant ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New OpenStreetMap iPhone Editor - Mapzen POI Collector
Nick, Nick Black wrote: > Mapzen POI Collector is a free iPhone app that makes it really easy to > collect POIs for OpenStreetMap. Users locate themselves using the > iPhone's built in GPS, position a pin at the location of the POI they > want to add and then choose from a range of pre-selected categories. I'm lacking an iPhone myself so excuse me if my questions are stupid. I'm interested in hearing about some technology aspects behind the POI collector (unless these are terribly secret). I assume that the POI collector not only lets you collect new POIs but also modify existing ones. For this, the existing ones must be shown as active elements on the map that the device displays. Given that the OSM server proper is too slow to answer real-time "give me POIs in my vicinity" queries, and given that XAPI is not generally reliable for anything commercial grade, I assume that you are using your own XAPI-like POI database which tracks changes from the main OSM server and feeds them to the iPhone users, is that correct? Are you simply getting a feed that is close to real-time as possible and then let the device send updates directly to the OSM server, and what do you do in the hopefully rare case of an editing conflict? Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New OpenStreetMap iPhone Editor - Mapzen POI Collector
On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 9:47 AM, Valent Turkovic wrote: > On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 10:56 AM, Nick Black wrote: >> Hi Guys, >> >> Mapzen POI Collector was released into the App Store this morning. >> Mapzen POI Collector is a free iPhone app that makes it really easy to >> collect POIs for OpenStreetMap. Users locate themselves using the >> iPhone's built in GPS, position a pin at the location of the POI they >> want to add and then choose from a range of pre-selected categories. >> No need to remember those obscure tags any more. > > I don't have an IPhone but I will borrow one just to test your app. > Is there a way of adding custom POI's and tags? If it is not please > consider adding that feature. Hi Valent - we are testing that feature right now. If you mail me your UUID to n...@cloudmade.com I'll get you setup with a version you can test out. > > Cheers! > > -- > pratite me na twitteru - www.twitter.com/valentt > http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ > linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless > registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. > ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic, msn: valent.turko...@hotmail.com > -- -- Nick Black twitter.com/nick_b ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New OpenStreetMap iPhone Editor - Mapzen POI Collector
On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 10:56 AM, Nick Black wrote: > Hi Guys, > > Mapzen POI Collector was released into the App Store this morning. > Mapzen POI Collector is a free iPhone app that makes it really easy to > collect POIs for OpenStreetMap. Users locate themselves using the > iPhone's built in GPS, position a pin at the location of the POI they > want to add and then choose from a range of pre-selected categories. > No need to remember those obscure tags any more. I don't have an IPhone but I will borrow one just to test your app. Is there a way of adding custom POI's and tags? If it is not please consider adding that feature. Cheers! -- pratite me na twitteru - www.twitter.com/valentt http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic, msn: valent.turko...@hotmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New OpenStreetMap iPhone Editor - Mapzen POI Collector
On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 10:32 PM, Peter Körner wrote: > Some more things that came in to my mind: > > 1. When Moving a POI it's not visible, because your finger is over it. > When you started moving, there's no way back and no possibility to > cancel. It would be better if moving were implemented just as adding: > holding the finger generates a pin that can be moved and dropped with a > button. Pin handling and POI placement were the toughest parts of the design and development of Mapzen POI Collector. I agree that the movement of existing POIs needs some work. We'll look at it for the 1.2. There is a cancel though - when you move an existing POI you see a "Cancel" icon in the top right of the screen. > > 2. Shops that are made up as areas are not editable nor clickable. > This is planned for the 1.1 release. > 3. It's not that clear when a POI is clickable and when it's not. The > POIs on the tiles sould not have the same color as the real clickable > POIs (or not have any color at all) That's a good point - we'll look at implementing that. Thanks for the feedback - I see you've added to the issue tracker as well - great work :-) http://developers.cloudmade.com/projects/mapzen/issues > > Peter > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > -- -- Nick Black twitter.com/nick_b ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New OpenStreetMap iPhone Editor - Mapzen POI Collector
Some more things that came in to my mind: 1. When Moving a POI it's not visible, because your finger is over it. When you started moving, there's no way back and no possibility to cancel. It would be better if moving were implemented just as adding: holding the finger generates a pin that can be moved and dropped with a button. 2. Shops that are made up as areas are not editable nor clickable. 3. It's not that clear when a POI is clickable and when it's not. The POIs on the tiles sould not have the same color as the real clickable POIs (or not have any color at all) Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New OpenStreetMap iPhone Editor - Mapzen POI Collector
Hi Peter, The app itself is not yet localised, though we plan to do so in later versions. Thanks for the feature request :-) The first update will focus on expanding the choices of POI types, so if there is a type that is not present, please add to here: http://developers.cloudmade.com/projects/mapzen/issues On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 10:28 AM, Peter Körner wrote: > Very cool thing! > But, how do I select the language, once I've installed Mapzen from the > App-Store (I found it by searching for Mapzen, not via the links above) > > I also already have a feature Request: > I'd like to have auto completion in the "Street" field. > > Peter > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > -- -- Nick Black twitter.com/nick_b ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New OpenStreetMap iPhone Editor - Mapzen POI Collector
Very cool thing! But, how do I select the language, once I've installed Mapzen from the App-Store (I found it by searching for Mapzen, not via the links above) I also already have a feature Request: I'd like to have auto completion in the "Street" field. Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
