[Talk-gb-westmidlands] Houses and other buildings
Hi all, When I look at a lot of towns all the houses etc have been traced but not in others, I can't beleive someone has sat down and done each house one by one? Where is this coming from and how can I get it for my area? Cheers Jon (bigfatfrog67) ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Houses and other buildings
On 8 June 2012 22:12, Big Fat Frog bigfatfro...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, When I look at a lot of towns all the houses etc have been traced but not in others, I can't beleive someone has sat down and done each house one by one? Where is this coming from and how can I get it for my area? It depends on where you're looking but I think that in most areas, the building have been traced manually. For example almost all the buildings at http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.39399lon=-1.57597zoom=15layers=M have been traced by me from Bing aerial imagery. It can be tedious but sometimes my OCD gets the better of me :) Cheers, Matt ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Houses and other buildings
If you look in Birmingham then all the houses are there, I can't beleive that was done manually. There must have been an import sometime. On 08/06/2012 22:38, Matt Williams wrote: On 8 June 2012 22:12, Big Fat Frogbigfatfro...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, When I look at a lot of towns all the houses etc have been traced but not in others, I can't beleive someone has sat down and done each house one by one? Where is this coming from and how can I get it for my area? It depends on where you're looking but I think that in most areas, the building have been traced manually. For example almost all the buildings at http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.39399lon=-1.57597zoom=15layers=M have been traced by me from Bing aerial imagery. It can be tedious but sometimes my OCD gets the better of me :) Cheers, Matt ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Houses and other buildings
Wow Matt, which one are you out of The Big Bang Theory? Sheldon, Leonard, Howard or Raj? ;-) On 08/06/2012 22:38, Matt Williams wrote: On 8 June 2012 22:12, Big Fat Frogbigfatfro...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, When I look at a lot of towns all the houses etc have been traced but not in others, I can't beleive someone has sat down and done each house one by one? Where is this coming from and how can I get it for my area? It depends on where you're looking but I think that in most areas, the building have been traced manually. For example almost all the buildings at http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.39399lon=-1.57597zoom=15layers=M have been traced by me from Bing aerial imagery. It can be tedious but sometimes my OCD gets the better of me :) Cheers, Matt ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Houses and other buildings
OMG that's amazing. Why can't we get it from OS Opendata? On 08/06/2012 23:06, Andy Robinson wrote: All done manually, there is no magic import. Its several years of hard graft tracing from Bing imagery and if they also have numbers also from ground survey. Cheers Andy -Original Message- From: Big Fat Frog [mailto:bigfatfro...@gmail.com] Sent: 08 June 2012 22:46 To: talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Houses and other buildings If you look in Birmingham then all the houses are there, I can't beleive that was done manually. There must have been an import sometime. On 08/06/2012 22:38, Matt Williams wrote: On 8 June 2012 22:12, Big Fat Frogbigfatfro...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, When I look at a lot of towns all the houses etc have been traced but not in others, I can't beleive someone has sat down and done each house one by one? Where is this coming from and how can I get it for my area? It depends on where you're looking but I think that in most areas, the building have been traced manually. For example almost all the buildings at http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.39399lon=- 1.57597zoom=15layers =M have been traced by me from Bing aerial imagery. It can be tedious but sometimes my OCD gets the better of me :) Cheers, Matt ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Houses and other buildings
OS Opendata buildings are simplified polygons. Tracing over Bing imagery is much better generally, at least in the Birmingham area it is as the resolution of the imagery is good. Cheers Andy -Original Message- From: Big Fat Frog [mailto:bigfatfro...@gmail.com] Sent: 08 June 2012 23:15 To: talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Houses and other buildings OMG that's amazing. Why can't we get it from OS Opendata? On 08/06/2012 23:06, Andy Robinson wrote: All done manually, there is no magic import. Its several years of hard graft tracing from Bing imagery and if they also have numbers also from ground survey. Cheers Andy -Original Message- From: Big Fat Frog [mailto:bigfatfro...@gmail.com] Sent: 08 June 2012 22:46 To: talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Houses and other buildings If you look in Birmingham then all the houses are there, I can't beleive that was done manually. There must have been an import sometime. On 08/06/2012 22:38, Matt Williams wrote: On 8 June 2012 22:12, Big Fat Frogbigfatfro...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, When I look at a lot of towns all the houses etc have been traced but not in others, I can't beleive someone has sat down and done each house one by one? Where is this coming from and how can I get it for my area? It depends on where you're looking but I think that in most areas, the building have been traced manually. For example almost all the buildings at http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.39399lon=- 1.57597zoom=15layers =M have been traced by me from Bing aerial imagery. It can be tedious but sometimes my OCD gets the better of me :) Cheers, Matt ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Houses and other buildings
It's a hugely impressive achievement and all credit to those involved. If you would like to add addresses but don't have the time to trace all buildings, you can make use of addr:interpolation tag. Basically add a node for the two houses at either end of a road (or corner with an adjoining road) and fill in their numbers (addr:housenumber=) and street (addr:street=), then draw a way connecting them and tag the way addr:interpolation=even (or odd) as appropriate. * Example: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.3905lon=-1.51256zoom=17layers=M * Addr:Interpolation details: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Addresses#Using_interpolation Regards, RobJN On , Andy Robinson ajrli...@gmail.com wrote: All done manually, there is no magic import. Its several years of hard graft tracing from Bing imagery and if they also have numbers also from ground survey. Cheers Andy -Original Message- From: Big Fat Frog [mailto:bigfatfro...@gmail.com] Sent: 08 June 2012 22:46 To: talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Houses and other buildings If you look in Birmingham then all the houses are there, I can't beleive that was done manually. There must have been an import sometime. On 08/06/2012 22:38, Matt Williams wrote: On 8 June 2012 22:12, Big Fat frogbigfatfro...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, When I look at a lot of towns all the houses etc have been traced but not in others, I can't beleive someone has sat down and done each house one by one? Where is this coming from and how can I get it for my area? It depends on where you're looking but I think that in most areas, the building have been traced manually. For example almost all the buildings at http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.39399lon=- 1.57597zoom=15layers =M have been traced by me from Bing aerial imagery. It can be tedious but sometimes my OCD gets the better of me :) Cheers, Matt ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-GB] PRoW Ref codes (WAS:Hampshire Rights of Way Data released under OS OpenData licence)
Is it not sensible to use the reference format of the place you are in,
rather than create some sudo standard?
If a footpath is in County Durham, and I see OSM has it as ref=Footpath
5, then I know I can call Durham council and say Repair footpath 5
please..
If another footpath is in Newcastle, and I see OSM has it as ref=NE/06-b,
then I can call that council and say Repair path NE slash 06 dash b,
please..
If I call Durham council and ask them to fix Footpath DH slash 5. they
will just be confused why I'm saying DH and slash.
Should there be a national referencing system introduced, or at least
planned and adopted by some areas, then we can think about using tags such
as *ref:uk*, *{name_of_standard}_ref*, or perhaps just *ref* and *old_ref* for
the number/format previously used in the area.
On 2 June 2012 11:35, Barry Cornelius barrycorneliu...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, 31 May 2012, Robert Whittaker (OSM) wrote:
... (This is Worcestershire, and at the same time,
they've also split the paths up at every junction so that no path has
two routes leaving a junction, i.e. a path always ends at the first
junction of rights of way it comes to, and its continuation is now a
separate new path. I think this may have something to do with
geometries in GIS software.)
I think this is also adopted by Buckinghamshire. For example, there is a
four way junction where TWY/16/2, TWY/16/3, TWY/19/1 and TWY/19/2 meet.
Oxfordshire don't do this. One of their four way junctions has the meeting
of 265/29, 265/29, 265/33 and 265/33.
I'm not sure what's best to do for for an overall format. I think we
may probably have to consider things on a county by county basis,
trying to keep things as consistent as possible. ...
A web application I'm developing straddles many counties. So I've decided
to adopt the scheme:
code-for-council:code-for-**path-adopted-by-council
Examples are:
BM:TWY/16/2
BM:TWY/19/1
ON:265/29
ON:265/33
For the code-for-council (e.g., BM and ON), I've chosen to use the two
letter codes that are used by the OS Opendata 1:50 000 Scale Gazetteer that
is described at: http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.**uk/oswebsite/products/50k-
**gazetteer/index.htmlhttp://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/products/50k-gazetteer/index.html
It's in field 12 of their colon-separated file. There are 208 values.
Is this sensible?
--
Barry Cornelius
http://www.thehs2.com/
http://www.oxonpaths.com/
http://www.northeastraces.com/
http://www.barrycornelius.com/
__**_
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--
Gregory
o...@livingwithdragons.com
http://www.livingwithdragons.com
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Re: [Talk-GB] PRoW Ref codes (WAS:Hampshire Rights of Way Data released under OS OpenData licence)
On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 2:07 PM, Gregory nomoregra...@googlemail.com wrote: Is it not sensible to use the reference format of the place you are in, rather than create some sudo standard? A web application I'm developing straddles many counties. So I've decided to adopt the scheme: code-for-council:code-for-path-adopted-by-council I think this is a way of doing what you suggest, i.e. using the reference format of the place you're in (along with the necessary indication of what place you are in). An alternative would be to use the council's own code, and then in another tag (or in a relation, see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Is_In) indicating which county it is in. But that seems a roundabout way of doing it, harder both to use and to map. __John ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] PRoW Ref codes (WAS:Hampshire Rights of Way Data released under OS OpenData licence)
On 08/06/2012 16:02, John Sturdy wrote: On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 2:07 PM, Gregory nomoregra...@googlemail.com wrote: Is it not sensible to use the reference format of the place you are in, rather than create some sudo standard? A web application I'm developing straddles many counties. So I've decided to adopt the scheme: code-for-council:code-for-path-adopted-by-council I think this is a way of doing what you suggest, i.e. using the reference format of the place you're in (along with the necessary indication of what place you are in). An alternative would be to use the council's own code, and then in another tag (or in a relation, see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Is_In) indicating which county it is in. But that seems a roundabout way of doing it, harder both to use and to map. That is exactly what the concept of namespaces/value domains is designed to address. Counties won't check with each other about uniqueness of the value, so it's only guaranteed unique and unambiguous within the context of a certain county. Hence, the ref must be accompanied with an indication of which county generated the ref. So ref=organisation:num is one way, ref:organisation=num is another. Just think of what happens in the case of a new path: who or what generates its ref? It would be nothing short of best practice to include the organisation in the tagging. Just like the principle which says that amounts are never recorded in financial systems without a currency code and timestamps must always have a timezone - to avoid all possibility of ambiguity. Colin ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Follow up : Hampshire Rights of Way Data released under OS OpenData licence
Hi Nick, All, Has any contact been made with either Ordnance Survey or Hampshire CC to get clarity on the use of the Hampshire OS OpenData? Recap of the Issue: * Hampshire CC : The data has been published as Open Data under the Ordnance Survey Open Data Licence. Here the use of Open Data seems to be an internal term that Hants CC use [1]. To me this appears to suggest that they have contacted Ordnance Survey to check that they can release the data and OS came back with the suggestion that they use the OS Open Data Licence (it is clear that the rights of way are not derived from OS OpenData as the resolution is too high - i.e. very zoomed in) * The OS OpenData licence [2] states that it governs access to the data on OS's website. The Hampshire data is not on the OS website. This wording therefore looks bad but does it, in itself, prevent use of the data in OSM? * Ordnance Survey: Have stated that they have no objections to geodata derived in part from OS OpenData being released under the Open Database License 1.0. Thus: If we take the Ordnance Surveys response to mean they have 'no objections to geodata derived in part from OS OpenData LICENSED DATA being released under the Open Database License 1.0.' then we are okay. But, it this one step too far? Alternatively, we go back to Hampshire and get them to confirm that we can add this to OSM. We can use OS's quote as supporting evidence. Regards, RobJN [1] http://www3.hants.gov.uk/opendata.htm [2] http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/docs/licences/os-opendata-licence.pdf ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Follow up : Hampshire Rights of Way Data released under OS OpenData licence
On 8 June 2012 16:27, Rob Nickerson rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com wrote: Recap of the Issue: * Hampshire CC : The data has been published as Open Data under the Ordnance Survey Open Data Licence. Here the use of Open Data seems to be an internal term that Hants CC use [1]. To me this appears to suggest that they have contacted Ordnance Survey to check that they can release the data and OS came back with the suggestion that they use the OS Open Data Licence (it is clear that the rights of way are not derived from OS OpenData as the resolution is too high - i.e. very zoomed in) * The OS OpenData licence [2] states that it governs access to the data on OS's website. The Hampshire data is not on the OS website. This wording therefore looks bad but does it, in itself, prevent use of the data in OSM? * Ordnance Survey: Have stated that they have no objections to geodata derived in part from OS OpenData being released under the Open Database License 1.0. Thus: If we take the Ordnance Surveys response to mean they have 'no objections to geodata derived in part from OS OpenData LICENSED DATA being released under the Open Database License 1.0.' then we are okay. But, it this one step too far? As things stand, the license we are being offered the data under is not compatible with ODbL. And I don't think we can assume that the special permission we have to use OS OpenData would cover this additional data -- as you say the HCC data isn't derived from OS OpenData, and in any case it's HCC offering the licence not OS, so technically we've got no right to employ our special permission from OS without HCC's approval. In short, I don't think we can rely on second-guessing what either Hampshire CC or OS mean here with the license, and hence we will need to clarify things with HCC and possibly OS too before we can make use of the data. Interestingly, of all the datasets listed at http://www3.hants.gov.uk/opendata/datasets.htm , the public rights of way data is the only one not released under the vanilla OGL license. This would suggest to me that they are aware of some rights OS has in the data, and OS requested they use OS's license. If that's the case I think it's likely that HCC and OS would agree to us using the data, if we're able to ask them. Robert. -- Robert Whittaker ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Follow up : Hampshire Rights of Way Data released under OS OpenData licence
Hello Rob, (and all) I've emailed the Hants CC guy once - he was away so the email bounced. I've emailed him again tonight. Nick -Rob Nickerson rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com wrote: - To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org, nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk, legal-t...@openstreetmap.org From: Rob Nickerson rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com Date: 08/06/2012 04:27PM Subject: Follow up : Hampshire Rights of Way Data released under OS OpenData licence Hi Nick, All, Has any contact been made with either Ordnance Survey or Hampshire CC to get clarity on the use of the Hampshire OS OpenData? Recap of the Issue: * Hampshire CC : The data has been published as Open Data under the Ordnance Survey Open Data Licence. Here the use of Open Data seems to be an internal term that Hants CC use [1]. To me this appears to suggest that they have contacted Ordnance Survey to check that they can release the data and OS came back with the suggestion that they use the OS Open Data Licence (it is clear that the rights of way are not derived from OS OpenData as the resolution is too high - i.e. very zoomed in) * The OS OpenData licence [2] states that it governs access to the data on OS's website. The Hampshire data is not on the OS website. This wording therefore looks bad but does it, in itself, prevent use of the data in OSM? * Ordnance Survey: Have stated that they have no objections to geodata derived in part from OS OpenData being released under the Open Database License 1.0. Thus: If we take the Ordnance Surveys response to mean they have 'no objections to geodata derived in part from OS OpenData LICENSED DATA being released under the Open Database License 1.0.' then we are okay. But, it this one step too far? Alternatively, we go back to Hampshire and get them to confirm that we can add this to OSM. We can use OS's quote as supporting evidence. Regards, RobJN [1] http://www3.hants.gov.uk/opendata.htm [2] http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/docs/licences/os-opendata-licence.pdf ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] OpenHants - doing something with the Hants CC data in the meantime
Hi, While waiting for the decision as to whether we should use the Hants CC data, I've started work on a small side-project OpenHants which overlays the Hants CC footpath data as a separate layer on top of a kothic-js rendered OSM map (basically same server side code as for Freemap). Footpaths are green, bridleways are brown and byways red (no key yet) and you can report problems (just saves it in a database at the moment, aim is to create an RSS feed). What I'd like to do is allow people to report problems in the field via an Android app (I have something similar written already). It also shows which Hampshire ROWs are not in OSM yet. It's at www.free-map.org.uk/hampshire/ - requires an up-to-date browser (e.g. IE must be 9) Nick ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Follow up : Hampshire Rights of Way Data released under OS OpenData licence
On 08/06/12 17:30, Robert Whittaker (OSM) wrote: And I don't think we can assume that the special permission we have to use OS OpenData would cover this additional data [...] It has been repeated many times on these lists, by a very small number of people, that we have 'special permission' to use OS OpenData. This is not true. I have checked the process that the LWG went through and there was *no* special permission given. Ordnance Survey confirmed: The Ordnance Survey has no objections to geodata derived in part from OS OpenData being released under the Open Database License 1.0. This is not special permission. If there was special permission there would be something in writing to the effect We (OS) grant You (OSM) permission or somesuch and this does not exist. Please stop repeating that we have special permission, we are simply using the the OS OpenData under their licence and OS confirmed that that is acceptable, as almost everyone who considered the situation thought at the time. -- Cheers, Chris user: chillly ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] OpenHants - doing something with the Hants CC data in the meantime
Fantastic use of the data Nick! Is there any guides for how to do something similar? I was trying to visualise the Natural England data using Leaflet but failed miserably as the shapefile is too big. Your website appears to load just the bit needed. Would I be able to use some of your code? Cheers, RobJN p.s I'm not hugely tech savy, but with a simple set of steps (e.g. Load data in x, tweak code where there are references to yz, etc) should be enough to get me started as I can research the details on google. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
