Re: The Bat! 3.99.8 SSL Cert. Questions
On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 05:21:11 +0300 vitalie vrabie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: so, be a RealMan™ when this FemaleLogic® animal tells ya you CANNOT do any transfers with an expired certificate. :) Those who say cannot do should step aside for those who just do: You can indeed do transfers with an expired cert, unless the email software says you are too stupid to know what you are doing, and nannies you. ...or don't fear the expenses of the divorce, considering the benefits of marrying a better one later. ;) Done. ;-) I'll watch this list for a little while longer, maybe Ritlabs come to their senses. -- Cheers, Thomas. Using Claws Mail 2.9.2 under Ubuntu Feisty Fawn. Current beta is 3.99.07 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 3.99.8 SSL Cert. Questions
Thomas Fernandez wrote: so, be a RealMan™ when this FemaleLogic® animal tells ya you CANNOT do any transfers with an expired certificate. :) Those who say cannot do should step aside for those who just do: You can indeed do transfers with an expired cert, unless the email software says you are too stupid to know what you are doing, and nannies you. yeah... you'll always be a kid for your mom. despite the age, no matter what. point is... paternalistic? personally, i doubt it; mommernalistic would be a better explanation for this phenomenon... ;) Leisure Suit Larry - yeah, that was paternalistic indeed: do whatever you want, as long as you pass the exam. ...or don't fear the expenses of the divorce, considering the benefits of marrying a better one later. ;) Done. ;-) I'll watch this list for a little while longer, maybe Ritlabs come to their senses. ah. sure. after the divorce and re-marriage, why would we care of our ex? that's obvious! someone should count the faceliftings, liposuctions etc, right? :) -- Signed, Vitalie. Current beta is 3.99.07 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 3.99.8 SSL Cert. Questions
On Thursday, June 7, 2007, 12:19:45 PM, Goncalo Farias wrote: Nonetheless, I agree that one shouldn't have the possibility to edit a received message. I've seen that one is now able to remove attachments from a received message. Personally I don't like that. once you concede they should be paternalistic about some things, it's hard to complain about them doing it with others. perhaps I think they are right about the certificates and wrong on the other. -- Dwight A. Corrin 1201 W River Blvd Apt B108 Wichita KS 67203 316.303.9385 phone ahead to fax dcorrin at fastmail.fm Using IMAP with The Bat! 3.99.8 on Windows XP version 5,1 (Service Pack 2) Current beta is 3.99.07 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 3.99.8 SSL Cert. Questions
Hello Goncalo On Thursday, June 7, 2007 you wrote: I've seen that one is now able to remove attachments from a received message. Personally I don't like that. They key is ABLE. You can choose. I persoanlly LIKE to be able to remove attachments especially from Incredimail users :)) -- Rick The Bat Version 3.99.8 Current beta is 3.99.07 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 3.99.8 SSL Cert. Questions
Hello vitalie On Wednesday, June 6, 2007 you wrote: and further on with psychology, it means they're completely ruled by their wives at home? In my house *** I *** am the captain of the ship ... but I know who the admiral is :)) -- Rick The Bat Version 3.99.8 Current beta is 3.99.07 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 3.99.8 SSL Cert. Questions
Rick Grunwald wrote: In my house *** I *** am the captain of the ship sure. and it's YOUR duty to navigate around expired certificates and other sort of underwater rocks. ... but I know who the admiral is :)) mmm... Ritlabs? or Mother Nature, that 'stated' that rocks could deadly harm your ship? -- Signed, Vitalie. Current beta is 3.99.07 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 3.99.8 SSL Cert. Questions
Hello Rick, In my house *** I *** am the captain of the ship ... but I know who the admiral is Real men always have the last word.. Yes, dear! :-) -- George M. Menegakis Using The Bat v3.99.3 on Windows XP Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.99.07 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 3.99.8 SSL Cert. Questions
George M. Menegakis wrote: Real men always have the last word.. Yes, dear! :-) exactly. so, be a RealMan™ when this FemaleLogic® animal tells ya you CANNOT do any transfers with an expired certificate. :) ...or don't fear the expenses of the divorce, considering the benefits of marrying a better one later. ;) -- Signed, Vitalie. Current beta is 3.99.07 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 3.99.8 SSL Cert. Questions
On Saturday, June 2, 2007, 8:54:04 PM, Thomas Fernandez wrote: Ritlabs is of the opinion that that it is in your best interest if they deny you the option of accepting an expired certificate. They have a strong paternalistic streak. Lots like not letting one edit messages after receipt. -- Dwight A. Corrin 1201 W River Blvd Apt B108 Wichita KS 67203 316.303.9385 phone ahead to fax dcorrin at fastmail.fm Using IMAP with The Bat! 3.99.8 on Windows XP version 5,1 (Service Pack 2) Current beta is 3.99.07 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 3.99.8 SSL Cert. Questions
Dwight A Corrin wrote: Ritlabs is of the opinion that that it is in your best interest if they deny you the option of accepting an expired certificate. They have a strong paternalistic streak. and further on with psychology, it means they're completely ruled by their wives at home? -- Signed, Vitalie. Current beta is 3.99.07 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 3.99.8 SSL Cert. Questions
Jim Brown wrote: I can see RitLabs Point... BUT after 30+ years of Eng and support experience I'd have to second the suggestion that Alerting a User is Imperative... Denying a (knowledgeable) user after the Alert is excessive and Not in the best interest of the user OR product :( AFAIR, Max commented on this already. if your user is qualified indeed, he/she'd put something like stunnel. hence... in fact, you're talking about a LAZY user. no matter qualified or not. and Ritlabs' developers show lazy too. you're a nice couple! please don't divorce! ;) -- Signed, Vitalie. Current beta is 3.99.07 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 3.99.8 SSL Cert. Questions
Hello vitalie, On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 02:48:12 +0300 GMT (04/06/2007, 06:48 +0700 GMT), vitalie vrabie wrote: I can see RitLabs Point... BUT after 30+ years of Eng and support experience I'd have to second the suggestion that Alerting a User is Imperative... Denying a (knowledgeable) user after the Alert is excessive and Not in the best interest of the user OR product :( vv AFAIR, Max commented on this already. if your user is qualified indeed, vv he/she'd put something like stunnel. And why would he go through all this trouble? Just because Ritlabs refuses to respect his experience? Saying that they are smarter than him, they will check the certificate for him? There are other email clients out there with which the user can work as he desires. The purpose of computing in general is to make life easier, you seem to be forgetting this. If one email client makes my life more difficult, on purpose because a cert should not be expired - which is true but happens -, and another email client lets me accept it, which one would I use? Considering that I'm effectively cut off email without accepting that cert, so all the bells and whistles that make TB! so great don't count: A superior filtering system has no value without mails. Better use anothere email client with a not-so-good filtering system, but at least no problems at mail sending/retrieval. Yes, it is a mistake of the sysad if the cert is expired. So what? If the cert in our office expries, I will know he has slept again, and I want to accept the expired cert until he gets on his feet, instead of having to install stunnel and whatnot. Does Max want to call each sysad and remind him to please update his cert, as otherwise TB!-users are unable to do their mailing? Or the Belgian problem: The cert on the ID card is in another format than TB! expects, and the user is not allowed to accept it, even though he KNOWS it is perfectly valid. Only way for the user is to use another email client. How is this good for the product? -- Cheers, Thomas. I have an excellent track record, although I am not a horse, http://thomas.fernandez.hat-gar-keine-homepage.de/ Message reply created with The Bat! 3.99.3 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.99.07 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 3.99.8 SSL Cert. Questions
Thomas Fernandez wrote: vv AFAIR, Max commented on this already. if your user is qualified indeed, vv he/she'd put something like stunnel. Does Max want to call each sysad and remind him to please update his cert, as otherwise TB!-users are unable to do their mailing? why don't you ask him directly? who knows, maybe his point is exactly this; kinda eager to talk to sleepy sysadmins or the like. :) Or the Belgian problem: The cert on the ID card is in another format than TB! expects, and the user is not allowed to accept it, even though he KNOWS it is perfectly valid. Only way for the user is to use another email client. is it something similar to https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=5837 ? -- Signed, Vitalie. Current beta is 3.99.07 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 3.99.8 SSL Cert. Questions
Hi Folks, 6/1/2007, 14:00:36: FETCH - Certificate S/N: 432AECC1000303CF, algorithm: RSA (1024 bits), issued from 27 Mar 2006 to 27 Mar 2008, for 1 host(s): email.cisco.com. 6/1/2007, 14:00:36: FETCH - Owner: US, CA, San Jose, CIsco Systems, EMS, email.cisco.com. 6/1/2007, 14:00:36: FETCH - Issuer: Cisco Systems, Cisco SSL CA. !6/1/2007, 14:00:36: FETCH - TLS handshake failure. Invalid server certificate (This certificate has expired). But it wouldn't seem it's expired as says decoded valid from 27 Mar 2006 to 27 Mar 2008 ? So good for another 10+ months ? Well seems that this is truly an expire certificate regardless of what the log message shows as dates... I decided to try this server TLS/SSL with Outlook Express today and sure enough it also complained of an expired certificate.. A secure connection to the server could not be established. Account: 'email.cisco.com', Server: 'email.cisco.com', Protocol: POP3, Port: 995, Secure(SSL): Yes, Error Number: 0x800CCC1A Though Outlook would have let me ignore this fault... :) Sorry to bother the list... -- Best Regards, Jim Current beta is 3.99.07 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 3.99.8 SSL Cert. Questions
Hello Jim, On Sat, 2 Jun 2007 13:57:32 -0400 GMT (03/06/2007, 00:57 +0700 GMT), Jim Brown wrote: A secure connection to the server could not be established. Account: 'email.cisco.com', Server: 'email.cisco.com', Protocol: POP3, Port: 995, Secure(SSL): Yes, Error Number: 0x800CCC1A JB JBThough Outlook would have let me ignore this fault... :) JBSorry to bother the list... Ritlabs is of the opinion that that it is in your best interest if they deny you the option of accepting an expired certificate. They say that they have heard of a grandmother who clicked on YES mistakenly, and now her system is broken. So, that's why folks who need to accept an expired certificate and really know what they are doing, cannot use TB! but must use Outlook. I'm a bit sad that Ritlabs is not interested in those customers who know what they are doing any more. -- Cheers, Thomas. Nordamerika besteht aus lauter kleinen und grossen Inseln, von denen jedoch die wenigsten von Wasser umflossen sind. http://thomas.fernandez.hat-gar-keine-homepage.de/ Message reply created with The Bat! 3.99.3 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.99.07 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 3.99.8 SSL Cert. Questions
So, that's why folks who need to accept an expired certificate and really know what they are doing, cannot use TB! but must use Outlook. I'm a bit sad that Ritlabs is not interested in those customers who know what they are doing any more. Can this be true? -- Rick The Bat Version 3.99.8 Current beta is 3.99.07 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 3.99.8 SSL Cert. Questions
Hi Thomas, JBThough Outlook would have let me ignore this fault... :) JBSorry to bother the list... Ritlabs is of the opinion that that it is in your best interest if they deny you the option of accepting an expired certificate. They say that they have heard of a grandmother who clicked on YES mistakenly, and now her system is broken. So, that's why folks who need to accept an expired certificate and really know what they are doing, cannot use TB! but must use Outlook. I'm a bit sad that Ritlabs is not interested in those customers who know what they are doing any more. THANX... After going though the effort to setup Outlook to test the account I remembered seeing this discussed in the past... thus the smiley after my comment... I can see RitLabs Point... BUT after 30+ years of Eng and support experience I'd have to second the suggestion that Alerting a User is Imperative... Denying a (knowledgeable) user after the Alert is excessive and Not in the best interest of the user OR product :( -- Best Regards, Jim Current beta is 3.99.07 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 3.99.8 SSL Cert. Questions
Hello Rick, On Sat, 2 Jun 2007 22:06:00 -0400 GMT (03/06/2007, 09:06 +0700 GMT), Rick Grunwald wrote: So, that's why folks who need to accept an expired certificate and really know what they are doing, cannot use TB! but must use Outlook. I'm a bit sad that Ritlabs is not interested in those customers who know what they are doing any more. RG Can this be true? See the thread starting at mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] in this list, from just last month. Ritlabs didn't comment officially, so professionals who know what they are doing when accepting an expired cert have no hopes that this will ever be possible and the mistake in strategy be rectified. Hence, email professionals are not the target group anymore and have to look elsewhere, where they are not being nannied by their email client. -- Cheers, Thomas. What is this? Arnold Schwarzenegger has a big one... Cher and Madonna don't have one... And the Pope doesn't use his... Answer: A Last Name! http://thomas.fernandez.hat-gar-keine-homepage.de/ Message reply created with The Bat! 3.99.3 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.99.07 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 3.99.8 SSL Cert. Questions
Thomas Fernandez wrote: So, that's why folks who need to accept an expired certificate and really know what they are doing, cannot use TB! but must use Outlook. or Icedove.. -- C.K. Current beta is 3.99.07 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
