RE: [Texascavers] spies tambien

[Louise Power]

As opposed to "partially dead?"> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:38:07 -0500> To: 
texascavers@texascavers.com> From: gi...@worldnet.att.net> Subject: 
[Texascavers] spies tambien> > At 01:05 PM 7/18/2008, Ted Samsel wrote:> 
>Berlandier was Swiss, thus allowing the Swiss to take over Rde14.> > During 
and after the Texas revolution Berlandier, having forsaken der > Schweitz, 
lived in Matamoros where he was a naturalist. I think that > means he belonged 
to a nudist camp? He drowned whilst swimming (or, > rather, not swimming) in 
the Rio Soto la Marina and became totally > dead as a result of it.> > 
--Ediger> > > 
-> Visit 
our website: http://texascavers.com> To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
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RE: [Texascavers] RE: video clip

[Louise Power]

Webwasher has a strange way of classifying things. I was trying to look on line 
a couple of years ago at a cemetery site and it wouldn't let me because it 
classified it as a "dating" site. Now that's BIZARRE! It fairly boggles the 
imagination. 
 
I'm not sure what kind of word samples it looks at to make these decisions. I 
tried to look at the local NPR station a couple of months ago and it wouldn't 
let me because it was a "GSTREAMING" site. But it will let me look a the site 
for the local rightwing radio station (think Rush, etc).
 
No accounting for it's choices seems to pull them out of it's electronic...



From: mminton@nmhu.eduTo: texascavers@texascavers.comDate: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 
16:06:03 -0400Subject: [Texascavers] RE: video clip




Louise,
 
>Since my work computer won't let me bring this up (Webwasher says its "r 
>rated), I can't take a look at it here, so tell me, are you sure it's a 
>creature camouflaged as a rock or is it "The Horta" from the old Star Trek 
>series
 
  I can't imagine why that video got an R rating.  Anyway, the creature 
seemed to be the rock itself, unlike the horta which merely moved through rock 
at a rapid clip.
 
>Is this one of those clay model animations? 
>The accompanying music was a little strange.
 
  The main character did look like claymation.  Think Wallace and Grommit 
but much more crude.    I think the music was 
played backwards.
 
Mark Minton

RE: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices

[Louise Power]

Since I can't cave anymore, I'd have to say no to whether or not it changed my 
caving habits, but it sure has changed my travel habits. I don't just get in my 
little 98 Ford Ranger and go like I used to. One thing I have noticed around 
here is that on Sundays (when a friend and I treat ourselves to lunch out and a 
movie), there's almost nobody in the restaurants.> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 
11:19:38 -0500> From: gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org> To: 
texascavers@texascavers.com> Subject: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices> > > Couple 
of questions for the Texas Caver use group related to the price> of gas and 
caving.> > Has the price of gas changed your caving habits?> > Are you still 
caving as much but closer to home or are you caving less> frequently but on 
longer trips.> > Have you switched to a smaller vehicle or are you car pooling 
more.> > Have you seen the number of folks attending grotto meetings increase 
or> decline over the last 6 months?> > What will be the long term impact on 
caving?> > Geary> > 
-> Visit 
our website: http://texascavers.com> To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
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RE: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices

[Louise Power]

I used to drive a '67 Chevy Suburban with 4wd that got about 18 mpg on the road 
because it didn't have any pollution control devices on it. Happy Mexico 
memories with that one. Gee I wish I had it back.

From: fholt@townandcountryins.comTo: wavyca...@gmail.com; 
philipmoss@juno.comCC: texascavers@texascavers.comDate: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 
10:27:39 -0500Subject: RE: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices








Wavy, 
I guess I only qualify as a Butt Head as I drive a 210 HP Ford Exploder that 
only gets 20 MPG highway. As has been mentioned, a big part of the problem is S 
& D. With China, India and Russia demanding more oil and gasoline, the supply 
can’t keep up. I feel a little pain but I am with Philip in that I am just glad 
that I can buy the gas. It was about 1974 or 75 when it was so scarce that I 
had to know a local official in Hondo to be able to buy gas there for a caving 
trip further west.  I don’t have the solution but I still believe that it is in 
the best interest of all US citizens that congress open all accessible areas to 
environmentally safe drilling.
Happy Motoring, as one of the major oil companies used to advertise.
Fritz
 




From: Don Cooper [mailto:wavyca...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 12:43 
AMTo: Philip L MossCc: texascavers@texascavers.comSubject: Re: [Texascavers] 
OT- gas prices
 

No - but I would give my left nut to go back to the days that gas was 1.05 a 
gallon, when I was making only $19.00 an hour with excellent health benefits 
and rent, including paid utilities were only $500 a month.Basically, you can 
blame a lot of the current energy situation, worldwide, on assholes who feel 
like they are ENTITLED to drive 350hp giant SUVs everyday everywhere for 
anything.-WaV

On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Philip L Moss  wrote:


Do you want your income to revert to what it was when gas was $0.699/gal. also? 
 Personally, I find it less painful to fill up today than I did in the 
mid-1970s.

 

BTW - gas prices in some places in the US in 1906 was $1.06/gallon.  Inflation 
calculators say that is equivalent to over $25/gal. in 2008 dollars.  1906 was 
the first year anyone drove from coast to coast in the US and it the trip cost 
about $8,000 in 1906 dollars (fuel, food, maintenance, and a mechanic's salary 
for the trip).  There is a movie called "Horatio's Drive" about the trip.  
Energy prices have been high before, just not much in living memory.

 

BTW - we do have subsidized gas prices in the US.  There are numerous tax 
breaks specifically for oil companies, their waste is never treated as 
expensively as the same waste from other industries, and I don't believe that 
the American people are getting fair market royalties for oil produced from 
public lands.

 

Philip L. mossphilipm...@juno.com

 

Louise Power  writes:


>snip<

Yipes! I remember when I thought I was being ripped off at $0.699/gal. Gimme 
back those days!!!
 Paralegal 
Scholarship - Click Now!
 

RE: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices

[Louise Power]

You can't even give those things away in Oregon. You see them sitting roadside 
along with Hummers with big "For Sale" signs in the windshield. They've been 
sitting there so long that most of the signs are faded and have spidey webs on 
them.
 



List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 00:43:17 -0500From: wavycaver@gmail.comTo: 
philipmoss@juno.comCC: texascavers@texascavers.comSubject: Re: [Texascavers] 
OT- gas prices
No - but I would give my left nut to go back to the days that gas was 1.05 a 
gallon, when I was making only $19.00 an hour with excellent health benefits 
and rent, including paid utilities were only $500 a month.Basically, you can 
blame a lot of the current energy situation, worldwide, on assholes who feel 
like they are ENTITLED to drive 350hp giant SUVs everyday everywhere for 
anything.-WaV
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Philip L Moss  wrote:


Do you want your income to revert to what it was when gas was $0.699/gal. also? 
 Personally, I find it less painful to fill up today than I did in the 
mid-1970s.
 
BTW - gas prices in some places in the US in 1906 was $1.06/gallon.  Inflation 
calculators say that is equivalent to over $25/gal. in 2008 dollars.  1906 was 
the first year anyone drove from coast to coast in the US and it the trip cost 
about $8,000 in 1906 dollars (fuel, food, maintenance, and a mechanic's salary 
for the trip).  There is a movie called "Horatio's Drive" about the trip.  
Energy prices have been high before, just not much in living memory.
 
BTW - we do have subsidized gas prices in the US.  There are numerous tax 
breaks specifically for oil companies, their waste is never treated as 
expensively as the same waste from other industries, and I don't believe that 
the American people are getting fair market royalties for oil produced from 
public lands.
 
Philip L. mossphilipm...@juno.com
 
Louise Power  writes:

>snip<
Yipes! I remember when I thought I was being ripped off at $0.699/gal. Gimme 
back those days!!! 
Paralegal Scholarship - Click Now!

RE: [Texascavers] ICS gas prices

[Louise Power]

Actually, from what I hear on the Sunday "talking heads" shows, the fault lies 
with futures market speculators--your retirement plan (if you have one) may be 
one of the bad guys.

List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 15:06:42 -0700From: jpbrooks01@sbcglobal.netSubject: Re: 
[Texascavers] ICS gas pricesTo: fholt@townandcountryins.comCC: 
power_lou...@hotmail.com; j...@oztotl.com; texascavers@texascavers.com
Oklet me throw a wrench in all the complaining about high oil prices...do 
you think that oil prices may just be a symptom? It looks to me like the value 
oil has risen, but certainly not as much as the price of gas. The pain we are 
all feeling is more likely the result of a devalued dollar buying a commodity 
that is holding its value and is increasing in valuesure oil is going 
up...but not as fast as our buying power is diminishing.
I am not an economistbut from simple observationit doesn't take a PHD 
in economics to figure out the cause of the dollars decline...its the 9 
trillion dollar national debt we have accumulated from fighting two very 
expensive wars.
You can keep your eyes on the pump if you wantand blame the oil 
companiesbut the real culprit for our woes resides elsewhere.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 17, 2008, at 4:47 PM, Fritz Holt  wrote:






I’ll take bets that we never see $2. gas again and if we do , most of us won’t 
have two cents to rub together.
Fritz
 




From: Louise Power [mailto:power_lou...@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, July 17, 
2008 4:45 PMTo: Joe Ranzau; texascavers@texascavers.comSubject: RE: 
[Texascavers] ICS gas prices
 
And yet here in Southwest Oregon, we haven't seen $3.00 gas in a coon's age 
(however old they get). Today the lowest is at Costco (where else?) at 
$4.239/gal; the highest at Chevron at $4.399/gal. Yipes! I remember when I 
thought I was being ripped off at $0.699/gal. Gimme back those days!!!



List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 16:33:53 -0500From: joe@oztotl.comTo: 
texascavers@texascavers.comSubject: Re: [Texascavers] ICS gas prices

The Chevron in Comfort Texas near the site of next year's ICS has gas for a 
whopping $3.83, by far the cheapest I have seen in this neck of the woods!

On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 4:28 PM, David  wrote:

This post is only for people travelling thru southern Louisiana on the way to

the NSS Convention in Florida.

 

 

At the present time, it appears gas prices are cheapest in Gulport, Mississippi,

at around $ 3.85

 

Also, on the east side of Baton Rouge and it suburbs along the I-12 route have 
gas prices in the $ 3.89 range,

and the same for  Baytown ( east of Houston ).

 

If you don't fill up at those places, you can plan on paying $ 4 or more for 
gas in Florida.

 

You might consider carrying a  5 gallon jug of gas and filling it up in 
Gulfport, just so you don't have to buy

gas at some place that is $ 4.17.   That just might save you $ 1.60 on the 
trip.

 

Or you could tow a trailer full of gas to the convention and sell enough 
gasoline to make a profit to

pay for your trip to the convention.   

 

What is the most extra gas you have ever carried on a road trip?   Five 
5-gallon jugs?

 

David Locklear
 

[Texascavers] spies tambien

[Gill Ediger]

At 01:05 PM 7/18/2008, Ted Samsel wrote:

Berlandier was Swiss, thus allowing the Swiss to take over Rde14.


During and after the Texas revolution Berlandier, having forsaken der 
Schweitz, lived in Matamoros where he was a naturalist. I think that 
means he belonged to a nudist camp? He drowned whilst swimming (or, 
rather, not swimming) in the Rio Soto la Marina and became totally 
dead as a result of it.


--Ediger


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[Texascavers] RE: gas prices

[Minton, Mark]

Geary,

>Couple of questions for the Texas Caver use group related to the price of gas 
>and caving.

  I can provide an Eastern perspective, since I now live in Virgina and 
cave in VA and WV.

>Has the price of gas changed your caving habits?

  Not at all.  We cave as much as possible.  :-)

>Are you still caving as much but closer to home or are you caving less 
>frequently but on longer trips.

  No change really.  Weekend caving in VA and WV with one or two trips a 
year to Mexico.

>Have you switched to a smaller vehicle or are you car pooling more.

  Still using the same vehicles.  (My '84 Toyota has nearly 450,000 on the 
odometer, and still gets over 20 mpg.)  Car pooling is rarely practical for us 
because there are few other cavers near us going to where we go.  However lots 
of our friends car pool, and have been doing so so years.

>Have you seen the number of folks attending grotto meetings increase or 
>decline over the last 6 months?

  We rarely go to grotto meetings.  However our caving project weekends are 
as well attended as ever.  Just last weekend, for example, there were at least 
30 cavers in Germany Valley, WV.  They typically come from OH, PA, MD, NJ, NY, 
VA, and WV. 

>What will be the long term impact on caving?

  Other than increased car pooling by those who can, I don't see much 
foreseeable change.  The only thing I have noticed is that people who used to 
drive a lot further to come to WV, like TAG cavers, are now more reluctant to 
do so specifically because of cost.  I agree with Ediger that there may be a 
return to larger vehicles that can carry more people, even if the vehicle 
mileage per se is lower.  That used to be the norm, not so much due to fuel 
cost, but because relatively few cavers had capable vehicles.  Those that did 
have big trucks or buses took a lot of people.

Mark Minton

[Texascavers] RE: video clip

[Minton, Mark]

Louise,

>Since my work computer won't let me bring this up (Webwasher says its "r 
>rated), I can't take a look at it here, so tell me, are you sure it's a 
>creature camouflaged as a rock or is it "The Horta" from the old Star Trek 
>series

  I can't imagine why that video got an R rating.  Anyway, the creature 
seemed to be the rock itself, unlike the horta which merely moved through rock 
at a rapid clip.

>Is this one of those clay model animations? 
>The accompanying music was a little strange.

  The main character did look like claymation.  Think Wallace and Grommit 
but much more crude.    I think the music was 
played backwards.

Mark Minton

Re: [Texascavers] OT- gas consumption

[dirtdoc]

Yes, Gill.  Time to visit Austin school bus again and find a good used diesel 
shortie.

Dirtdoc


> The return of the SpeleoCamper may be near. 
> 
> --Ediger 

Re: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices

[Charles Goldsmith]

I understand Mark, I stayed away from the local grottos for several
years because of the bickering and politics.  I'm fortunate that I
live and work just a few miles away from REI.

DFWG has gotten a lot better in the last couple of years, mainly cause
several people don't come anymore or have moved away.  Bill Steele is
doing a great job of keeping things running smoothly and I've enjoyed
the meetings since I've been a member.

Plus I like to rumble things every now and then with talk of merging
the 3 grottos, gets everyone up in arms and gets a lot more people
involved for a short time, even if its just to show up and voice their
opinions on the matter :)

But don't worry, I'm not scheduled to shake things up for at least another year.

Keep up the good work with the TSA, it is needed, whether a lot of
people think so or not.

Charles

On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 2:15 PM,   wrote:
>
> A couple of reasons, Charles:
>
>
> I live in Mesquite, so all are quite a drive for me.
>
> Being an officer of the TSA, I feel I can serve the Texas caving
> community better in an "at-large" level, rather than belong to any one
> grotto and get caught up in the petty bickering and pissing matches
> we've been witness to around here the last couple of years.
>
> Thirdly, there are a few personalities that I have philosophical
> differences with and, maybe once they aren't involved any longer, I'll
> become more active in the area grottos. (A couple have already left or
> are no longer involved).
>
> My feelings, frankly, were quite hurt after being a DFWG member and
> newsletter editor for a number of years before my late wife took ill
> with cancer and there was not a word of condolences or a visit or email
> from anyone when she died.
>
> The DFWG always seemed cliquish to me and never made me feel like a true
> member. Things may be getting better, but, see number 3.
>
> Finally, I'm just lazy and don't feel like fighting the traffic.
>
>
> Guess that about sums it up.
>
> My hard work seems to be better appreciated and I can and have
> accomplished more (and cave all I want, anyway) at the state level than
> at the local level.
>
>
> Thanks for asking, though.
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:wo...@justfamily.org]
> Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 1:38 PM
> To: Alman, Mark @ IRP
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices
>
> And why is that?  I don't think I've ever seen you at a grotto meet,
> and we have 3 in the metroplex.
>
> On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 11:40 AM,   wrote:
>
>> Have you seen the number of folks attending grotto meetings increase
> or
>>
>> decline over the last 6 months?
>>
>> N/A. Don't go.
>>
>

RE: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices

[mark . alman]

A couple of reasons, Charles:


I live in Mesquite, so all are quite a drive for me.

Being an officer of the TSA, I feel I can serve the Texas caving
community better in an "at-large" level, rather than belong to any one
grotto and get caught up in the petty bickering and pissing matches
we've been witness to around here the last couple of years.

Thirdly, there are a few personalities that I have philosophical
differences with and, maybe once they aren't involved any longer, I'll
become more active in the area grottos. (A couple have already left or
are no longer involved).

My feelings, frankly, were quite hurt after being a DFWG member and
newsletter editor for a number of years before my late wife took ill
with cancer and there was not a word of condolences or a visit or email
from anyone when she died.

The DFWG always seemed cliquish to me and never made me feel like a true
member. Things may be getting better, but, see number 3.

Finally, I'm just lazy and don't feel like fighting the traffic.


Guess that about sums it up.

My hard work seems to be better appreciated and I can and have
accomplished more (and cave all I want, anyway) at the state level than
at the local level.


Thanks for asking, though.


Mark





-Original Message-
From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:wo...@justfamily.org] 
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 1:38 PM
To: Alman, Mark @ IRP
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices

And why is that?  I don't think I've ever seen you at a grotto meet,
and we have 3 in the metroplex.

On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 11:40 AM,   wrote:

> Have you seen the number of folks attending grotto meetings increase
or
>
> decline over the last 6 months?
>
> N/A. Don't go.
>

[Texascavers] [Fuel, Caving & NSS]

[Don Arburn]

Anyone want a ride to Convention?

Don Arburn

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Re: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices

[Charles Goldsmith]

And why is that?  I don't think I've ever seen you at a grotto meet,
and we have 3 in the metroplex.

On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 11:40 AM,   wrote:

> Have you seen the number of folks attending grotto meetings increase or
>
> decline over the last 6 months?
>
> N/A. Don't go.
>

Re: [ot_caving] Re: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices

[Terry Holsinger]

Many like to place the blame for the "decrease" in CAFE on the new big 
SUV's, however one other reason is that as we increase the regulations 
on emissions we decrease the efficiency of the engines. Compare the same 
engine in the same makes fuel econemy for a late 80's and a late 90's 
car and you will note that the emmissions are down, as is the power and 
mpg. Fuel efficent gasoline IC engines need to run at high compressions 
which increases the "bad" combustion byproducts. Fuel "efficiency" has 
made a good increase in the older large v8's look at the mpg of full 
sized  trucks and "muscle" cars they have had a steady increase from a 
"standard" of around 12 to upwards of 20 mpg on the hwy. At the same 
time cars that used to get about to 40mpg are now only getting about 
30mpg, or have been discontinued because of poor sales or the inability 
to make current emissions standards (or current "safety" standards).


Terry H.

Don Cooper wrote:

Sorry for name calling, but...
Big time consumption has been egging on the "S & D" equation for a long time
now.
The fact that the most recent hyper-spike in price has only curbed
consumption marginally just goes to show how lucky we've been so far
(In other words, I feel like its fortunate that it hasnt been like this for
years instead of months)
I too remember what it was like when SUPPLY was down - based on the Arab oil
Embargo -
odd thing back then I seem to recall very little price gouging - but the
worldwide price of crude didn't go over $20 even when there was a shortage
of it.  But yeah - that was a much "larger dollar".
What we are experiencing now are the first bands of thunderstorms generated
by a MF of a hurricane.  The fact that fuel consumption efficiency has
steadily DECREASED since 1987 with our testosterone-driven 'gotta have more
power and size' consumerism has advanced our progress toward the brink.
Consumerism isn't the reason the brink exists.  Escalades and Hummers aren't
the reason we're running out of petroleum resources, they are why we are
running out sooner than we should have.
-WaV


On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 10:27 AM, Fritz Holt 
wrote:


 Wavy,

I guess I only qualify as a Butt Head as I drive a 210 HP Ford *Exploder*that 
only gets 20 MPG highway. As has been mentioned, a big part of the
problem is S & D. With China, India and Russia demanding more oil and
gasoline, the supply can't keep up. I feel a little pain but I am with
Philip in that I am just glad that I can buy the gas. It was about 1974 or
75 when it was so scarce that I had to know a local official in Hondo to be
able to buy gas there for a caving trip further west.  I don't have the
solution but I still believe that it is in the best interest of all US
citizens that congress open all accessible areas to environmentally safe
drilling.

Happy Motoring, as one of the major oil companies used to advertise.

Fritz


 --

*From:* Don Cooper [mailto:wavyca...@gmail.com]
*Sent:* Friday, July 18, 2008 12:43 AM
*To:* Philip L Moss
*Cc:* texascavers@texascavers.com
*Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices



No - but I would give my left nut to go back to the days that gas was 1.05
a gallon, when I was making only $19.00 an hour with excellent health
benefits and rent, including paid utilities were only $500 a month.
Basically, you can blame a lot of the current energy situation, worldwide,
on assholes who feel like they are ENTITLED to drive 350hp giant SUVs
everyday everywhere for anything.
-WaV

On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Philip L Moss 
wrote:

Do you want your income to revert to what it was when gas was $0.699/gal.
also?  Personally, I find it less painful to fill up today than I did in the
mid-1970s.



BTW - gas prices in some places in the US in 1906 was $1.06/gallon.
Inflation calculators say that is equivalent to over $25/gal. in 2008
dollars.  1906 was the first year anyone drove from coast to coast in the US
and it the trip cost about $8,000 in 1906 dollars (fuel, food, maintenance,
and a mechanic's salary for the trip).  There is a movie called "Horatio's
Drive" about the trip.  Energy prices have been high before, just not much
in living memory.



BTW - we do have subsidized gas prices in the US.  There are numerous tax
breaks specifically for oil companies, their waste is never treated as
expensively as the same waste from other industries, and I don't believe
that the American people are getting fair market royalties for oil produced
from public lands.



Philip L. Moss
philipm...@juno.com



Louise Power  writes:

 >snip<

Yipes! I remember when I thought I was being ripped off at $0.699/gal.
Gimme back those days!!!




Paralegal Scholarship - Click 
Now!








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[Texascavers] OT- gas trip topics

[Gill Ediger]

At 11:39 AM 7/18/2008, Lyndon Tiu wrote:

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 11:34:12 -0500 mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote:
> As long as they enjoy listening to SRV and don't beat me down with
> stories about themselves or genealogy talk, we'll be OK.

... or talk about religion and politics?


Actually talk about religion can  be quite OK and interesting--say, 
like, if it is about ancient Mayan religion which involves caves and 
strange sexual rituals--well, maybe not that strange--which, 
all-in-all, in the end pretty much boiled down to Mayan politics 
anyhow. See how much fun this can be? It's the mindset, not the 
subject that is to blame for the discord.


--Ediger


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Re: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices

[Diana Tomchick]

OK, I'll bite.

On Jul 18, 2008, at 11:19 AM, Geary Schindel wrote:



Couple of questions for the Texas Caver use group related to the price
of gas and caving.

Has the price of gas changed your caving habits?


No, the balance of time to be spent on family/work/caving is the  
limiting factor in my decision to go caving on any given weekend.





Are you still caving as much but closer to home or are you caving less
frequently but on longer trips.


Still caving as much as the family and work will allow, generally  
twice a month.





Have you switched to a smaller vehicle or are you car pooling more.


Always car pooled to caving events both near and far, so that hasn't  
changed any. Started riding my bike to and from work (10-mile one-way  
journey) a few days a week, though this has very little to do with the  
price of gas and more with needing to find some time to exercise.





Have you seen the number of folks attending grotto meetings increase  
or

decline over the last 6 months?


The relative number has remained fairly steady, but with the departure  
of some of the old-timers we now have a new mix of younger people,  
including an increase in interest from foreign cavers (India, Israel,  
Belgium).





What will be the long term impact on caving?



Maybe this will lead to a reduction in (sub)urban sprawl in karst  
areas and improve the environmental quality of the karst and aquifers.  
One can hope, at least.


Diana

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Diana R. Tomchick
Associate Professor
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
Department of Biochemistry
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214B   
Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A.   
Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
214-645-6383 (phone)
214-645-6353 (fax)


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[Texascavers] OT- gas consumption

[Gill Ediger]

At 11:19 AM 7/18/2008, Geary Schindel wrote:

Has the price of gas changed your caving habits?


I will reiterate my Hamburger Theory: Back in 1970 a hamburger cost 
30 or 35 cents--so did a gallon of gas. Today a hamburger costs 3 
dollars or more and so does a gallon of gas. Is the price of gas 
really very far out of line with the national economy?



Are you still caving as much but closer to home or are you caving less
frequently but on longer trips. Have you switched to a smaller 
vehicle or are you car pooling more.


Back in the later '70s--especially after the crunch--our solution to 
what we considered high gas prices was to have larger vehicles--not 
smaller ones--that got horrible gas mileage but could carry 8 or 10 
people and all their gear for a 2 week trip. The SpeleoCamper had 
been around since the '60s but was brought out in force and used well 
into the '80s.


I still have my Dodge diesel 3/4-ton pickup and can get 8 cavers (10 
for a short trip) and all their gear into it. At 20 mpg it's still 
moderately economical with a good deal fewer folks even with the 
higher cost of diesel, but loaded with 8 people that works out to 160 
mpcg--miles per caver gallon. No SUV can match that--4 cavers max and 
minimal room for gear and maybe 14 mpg? And the sub-compact 40+mpg 
non-off-road mini-whatever-it-is is impractical for all but the near 
asphalt caves and meetings.



Have you seen the number of folks attending grotto meetings increase or
decline over the last 6 months?


It may not be totally representative of all Grottos but the UT Grotto 
meeting last Wednesday evening had one of the largest attendances 
I've ever seen, and that in the middle of the summer when UT 
attendance is usually unusually low. Some DID show up on bicycles, 
though, I have to admit.



What will be the long term impact on caving?


The return of the SpeleoCamper may be near.

--Ediger


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RE: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices

[Geary Schindel]

Lyndon,

Sounds like a very long drive back to Houston with George last weekend.
My condolences.  Anyway, thought George would like that comment.  :)

Geary

-Original Message-
From: Lyndon Tiu [mailto:l...@alumni.sfu.ca] 
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 11:40 AM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 11:34:12 -0500 mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote:
> As long as they enjoy listening to SRV and don't beat me down with
> stories about themselves or genealogy talk, we'll be OK.

... or talk about religion and politics?

--
Lyndon Tiu

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RE: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices

[mark . alman]

I don't mind that, Lyndon.

Although, my blood pressure may rise and I may accidentally drive us
into tree.


Mark



-Original Message-
From: Lyndon Tiu [mailto:l...@alumni.sfu.ca] 
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 11:40 AM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 11:34:12 -0500 mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote:
> As long as they enjoy listening to SRV and don't beat me down with
> stories about themselves or genealogy talk, we'll be OK.

... or talk about religion and politics?

--
Lyndon Tiu

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RE: [ot_caving] RE: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices

[mark . alman]

I disagree, Fritz.

 

I totally blame you for everything.  8^)>

 

 

Later,

 

(a punchy) Mark A.

 

 



From: Fritz Holt [mailto:fh...@townandcountryins.com] 
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 11:01 AM
To: Don Cooper
Cc: o...@texascavers.com
Subject: [ot_caving] RE: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices

 

Wavy,

My skin is thick but I didn't take it personally anyway. None of us feel
that we are the culprit.

Fritz

Re: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices

[Lyndon Tiu]

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 11:34:12 -0500 mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote:
> As long as they enjoy listening to SRV and don't beat me down with
> stories about themselves or genealogy talk, we'll be OK.

... or talk about religion and politics?

--
Lyndon Tiu

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RE: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices

[mark . alman]

Good quiz, Geary. I'll answer below:

-Original Message-
From: Geary Schindel [mailto:gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org] 
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 11:20 AM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices


Couple of questions for the Texas Caver use group related to the price
of gas and caving.

Has the price of gas changed your caving habits?

Yes. It's the reason we didn't come down to the last Punkin/Deep work
weekend.

Are you still caving as much but closer to home or are you caving less
frequently but on longer trips.

I wish we could cave close to DFW, but that's geologically impossible.
We're caving less.

We decided against going to CaCa and Colorado this summer, even with
free use of a cabin, because of fuel costs. 

Have you switched to a smaller vehicle or are you car pooling more.

C. Driving a lot less and we've switched vehicles. My wife drives to
work here in town in my F250 and I'm driving her car 20 miles to work.

Have you seen the number of folks attending grotto meetings increase or
decline over the last 6 months?

N/A. Don't go.

What will be the long term impact on caving?

More carpooling and less participation, unfortunately.

Geary

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RE: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices

[mark . alman]

Hey, Lyndon!


I agree with you.

As much as I enjoy tooling down by myself or with the kiddos on caving
trips in my big diesel F250, I may have to consider splitting the fuel
costs with someone on future trips.

As long as they enjoy listening to SRV and don't beat me down with
stories about themselves or genealogy talk, we'll be OK.


Later,

Mark A.

 

-Original Message-
From: Lyndon Tiu [mailto:l...@alumni.sfu.ca] 
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 11:26 AM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices


My observation: People are now asking for carpooling opportunites rather
than driving alone without asking if others are making the same trip.


On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 11:19:38 -0500 gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org wrote:
> 
> Couple of questions for the Texas Caver use group related to the price
> of gas and caving.
> 
> Has the price of gas changed your caving habits?
> 
> Are you still caving as much but closer to home or are you caving less
> frequently but on longer trips.
> 
> Have you switched to a smaller vehicle or are you car pooling more.
> 
> Have you seen the number of folks attending grotto meetings increase
or
> decline over the last 6 months?
> 
> What will be the long term impact on caving?
> 
> Geary
> 
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
> 


--
Lyndon Tiu

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Re: [Texascavers] ICS gas prices

[Joe Ranzau]

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/import.html


2008/7/18 Fritz Holt :

>  Joe,
>
> No, but I would like to. These damned computers don t do what our fingers
> tell it to.
>
> Fritz
>
>
>  --
>
> *From:* Joe Ranzau [mailto:jran...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 17, 2008 6:22 PM
> *To:* Fritz Holt
> *Cc:* John Brooks; Louise Power; Joe Ranzau; texascavers@texascavers.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] ICS gas prices
>
>
>
> Ok, I'll bite...  Fritz, do you know which foreign country is our number on
> supplier?
>
> Joe
>
>
>
> j...@oztotl.com
>
>
>
> Sent while mobile
>
>
> On Jul 17, 2008, at 5:44 PM, Fritz Holt 
> wrote:
>
>  John, I concur. I don't like it but I definitely don't lay gas prices on
> the oil companies. My point was that if gas does go back to $2. in our
> economy, we will have far greater problems than today's high cost of
> gasoline. Other than some producing nations that subsidize the cost of
> gasoline, ours is still some of the least expensive world wide. That said,
> our legislators and some environmentalists, and I consider myself one, need
> to recognize that the situation will get worse before it gets better and
> that our best hope for the future is to initiate legislation to at least
> start us toward a future of LESS dependency on foreign oil. Viable
> alternative energy solutions will take longer than developing our oil and
> natural gas resources but our Democrat controlled congress must act now if
> that is to happen.
>
> Fritz
>
>
>  --
>
> *From:* John Brooks 
> [mailto:jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net]
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 17, 2008 5:07 PM
> *To:* Fritz Holt
> *Cc:* Louise Power; Joe Ranzau; texascavers@texascavers.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] ICS gas prices
>
>
>
> Oklet me throw a wrench in all the complaining about high oil
> prices...do you think that oil prices may just be a symptom? It looks to me
> like the value oil has risen, but certainly not as much as the price of gas.
> The pain we are all feeling is more likely the result of a devalued dollar
> buying a commodity that is holding its value and is increasing in
> valuesure oil is going up...but not as fast as our buying power is
> diminishing.
>
> I am not an economistbut from simple observationit doesn't take a
> PHD in economics to figure out the cause of the dollars decline...its the 9
> trillion dollar national debt we have accumulated from fighting two very
> expensive wars.
>
> You can keep your eyes on the pump if you wantand blame the oil
> companiesbut the real culprit for our woes resides elsewhere.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Jul 17, 2008, at 4:47 PM, Fritz Holt < 
> fh...@townandcountryins.com> wrote:
>
>  Iʼll take bets that we never see $2. gas again and if we do , most of us
> wonʼt have two cents to rub together.
>
> Fritz
>
>
>  --
>
> *From:* Louise Power [ 
> mailto:power_lou...@hotmail.com ]
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 17, 2008 4:45 PM
> *To:* Joe Ranzau; texascavers@texascavers.com
> *Subject:* RE: [Texascavers] ICS gas prices
>
>
>
> And yet here in Southwest Oregon, we haven't seen $3.00 gas in a coon's age
> (however old they get). Today the lowest is at Costco (where else?) at
> $4.239/gal; the highest at Chevron at $4.399/gal. Yipes! I remember when I
> thought I was being ripped off at $0.699/gal. Gimme back those days!!!
>  --
>
> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 16:33:53 -0500
> From:  j...@oztotl.com
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] ICS gas prices
>
> The Chevron in Comfort Texas near the site of next year's ICS has gas for a
> whopping $3.83, by far the cheapest I have seen in this neck of the woods!
>
> On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 4:28 PM, David < 
> 
> dlocklea...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> This post is only for people travelling thru southern Louisiana on the way
> to
>
> the NSS Convention in Florida.
>
>
>
>
>
> At the present time, it appears gas prices are cheapest in Gulport,
> Mississippi,
>
> at around $ 3.85
>
>
>
> Also, on the east side of Baton Rouge and it suburbs along the I-12 route
> have gas prices in the $ 3.89 range,
>
> and the same for  Baytown ( east of Houston ).
>
>
>
> If you don't fill up at those places, you can plan on paying $ 4 or more
> for gas in Florida.
>
>
>
> You might consider carrying a  5 gallon jug of gas and filling it up in
> Gulfport, just so you don't have to buy
>
> gas at some place that is $ 4.17.   That just might save you $ 1.60 on
> the trip.
>
>
>
> Or you could tow a trailer full of gas to the convention and sell enough
> gasoline to make a profit to
>
> pay for your trip to the convention.
>
>
>
> What is the most extra gas you have ever carried on a road trip?   Five
> 5-gallon jugs?
>
>
>
> David Locklear
>
>
>
>  e> Locklear
>
>
>
> iv> tml>
>
>

Re: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices

[Lyndon Tiu]

My observation: People are now asking for carpooling opportunites rather than 
driving alone without asking if others are making the same trip.


On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 11:19:38 -0500 gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org wrote:
> 
> Couple of questions for the Texas Caver use group related to the price
> of gas and caving.
> 
> Has the price of gas changed your caving habits?
> 
> Are you still caving as much but closer to home or are you caving less
> frequently but on longer trips.
> 
> Have you switched to a smaller vehicle or are you car pooling more.
> 
> Have you seen the number of folks attending grotto meetings increase or
> decline over the last 6 months?
> 
> What will be the long term impact on caving?
> 
> Geary
> 
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
> 


--
Lyndon Tiu

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Re: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices

[Bill Bentley]

Answers IN CAPS below


>
> Couple of questions for the Texas Caver use group related to the price
> of gas and caving.
>
> Has the price of gas changed your caving habits? YES
>
> Are you still caving as much but closer to home or are you caving less
> frequently but on longer trips.   NO

> Have you switched to a smaller vehicle or are you car pooling more. NO
>
> Have you seen the number of folks attending grotto meetings increase or
> decline over the last 6 months? NO CHANGE
>
> What will be the long term impact on caving? EVENTUALLY ADJUST TO IT,
BUDGET MORE


>
> Geary
>
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>
>
>


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[Texascavers] OT- gas prices

[Geary Schindel]

Couple of questions for the Texas Caver use group related to the price
of gas and caving.

Has the price of gas changed your caving habits?

Are you still caving as much but closer to home or are you caving less
frequently but on longer trips.

Have you switched to a smaller vehicle or are you car pooling more.

Have you seen the number of folks attending grotto meetings increase or
decline over the last 6 months?

What will be the long term impact on caving?

Geary

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[Texascavers] books available at party

[Mixon Bill]

I will have the following things at the Stricklands' pond party  
tomorrow. I won't be actively peddling them--it's a party, after all-- 
but if someone can catch me I can get them out of my car for you.


AMCS Activities Newsletter 31 (June 2008) $14 softbound, $24 hardbound
AMCS Bulletin 19, vulcanospeleology symposia proceedings (March 2008)  
$15
AMCS Bulletin 10, Caves of the Gonondrinas Area, new printing $6 (was  
$15)

Tsaval #7, magazine of the San Luis Potosí cavers $5
(cash or checks to AMCS for the above)

Carl Kunath's "50 Years of Texas Caving" $50 (cash or check to Carl  
Kunath)


--Bill Mixon, AMCS sales
--
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org



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Re: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices

[Lyndon Tiu]

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 10:51:24 -0500 fh...@townandcountryins.com wrote:
> Lyndon,
> We all have to make sacrifices for our pleasures.
> Fritz

I made the sacrifice willingly and I had lots of fun.

--
Lyndon Tiu

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[ot_caving] RE: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices

[Fritz Holt]

Wavy,
My skin is thick but I didn't take it personally anyway. None of us feel that 
we are the culprit.
Fritz


From: Don Cooper [mailto:wavyca...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 11:00 AM
To: Fritz Holt
Cc: o...@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices

Sorry for name calling, but...
Big time consumption has been egging on the "S & D" equation for a long time 
now.
The fact that the most recent hyper-spike in price has only curbed consumption 
marginally just goes to show how lucky we've been so far
(In other words, I feel like its fortunate that it hasnt been like this for 
years instead of months).
I too remember what it was like when SUPPLY was down - based on the Arab oil 
Embargo -
odd thing back then I seem to recall very little price gouging - but the 
worldwide price of crude didn't go over $20 even when there was a shortage of 
it.  But yeah - that was a much "larger dollar".
What we are experiencing now are the first bands of thunderstorms generated by 
a MF of a hurricane.  The fact that fuel consumption efficiency has steadily 
DECREASED since 1987 with our testosterone-driven 'gotta have more power and 
size' consumerism has advanced our progress toward the brink. Consumerism isn't 
the reason the brink exists.  Escalades and Hummers aren't the reason we're 
running out of petroleum resources, they are why we are running out sooner than 
we should have.
-WaV

On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 10:27 AM, Fritz Holt 
mailto:fh...@townandcountryins.com>> wrote:

Wavy,

I guess I only qualify as a Butt Head as I drive a 210 HP Ford Exploder that 
only gets 20 MPG highway. As has been mentioned, a big part of the problem is S 
& D. With China, India and Russia demanding more oil and gasoline, the supply 
can't keep up. I feel a little pain but I am with Philip in that I am just glad 
that I can buy the gas. It was about 1974 or 75 when it was so scarce that I 
had to know a local official in Hondo to be able to buy gas there for a caving 
trip further west.  I don't have the solution but I still believe that it is in 
the best interest of all US citizens that congress open all accessible areas to 
environmentally safe drilling.

Happy Motoring, as one of the major oil companies used to advertise.

Fritz





From: Don Cooper [mailto:wavyca...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 12:43 AM
To: Philip L Moss
Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices



No - but I would give my left nut to go back to the days that gas was 1.05 a 
gallon, when I was making only $19.00 an hour with excellent health benefits 
and rent, including paid utilities were only $500 a month.
Basically, you can blame a lot of the current energy situation, worldwide, on 
assholes who feel like they are ENTITLED to drive 350hp giant SUVs everyday 
everywhere for anything.
-WaV

On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Philip L Moss 
mailto:philipm...@juno.com>> wrote:

Do you want your income to revert to what it was when gas was $0.699/gal. also? 
 Personally, I find it less painful to fill up today than I did in the 
mid-1970s.



BTW - gas prices in some places in the US in 1906 was $1.06/gallon.  Inflation 
calculators say that is equivalent to over $25/gal. in 2008 dollars.  1906 was 
the first year anyone drove from coast to coast in the US and it the trip cost 
about $8,000 in 1906 dollars (fuel, food, maintenance, and a mechanic's salary 
for the trip).  There is a movie called "Horatio's Drive" about the trip.  
Energy prices have been high before, just not much in living memory.



BTW - we do have subsidized gas prices in the US.  There are numerous tax 
breaks specifically for oil companies, their waste is never treated as 
expensively as the same waste from other industries, and I don't believe that 
the American people are getting fair market royalties for oil produced from 
public lands.



Philip L. Moss
philipm...@juno.com



Louise Power mailto:power_lou...@hotmail.com>> writes:

>snip<

Yipes! I remember when I thought I was being ripped off at $0.699/gal. Gimme 
back those days!!!



Paralegal Scholarship - Click 
Now!

[ot_caving] Re: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices

[Don Cooper]

Sorry for name calling, but...
Big time consumption has been egging on the "S & D" equation for a long time
now.
The fact that the most recent hyper-spike in price has only curbed
consumption marginally just goes to show how lucky we've been so far
(In other words, I feel like its fortunate that it hasnt been like this for
years instead of months).
I too remember what it was like when SUPPLY was down - based on the Arab oil
Embargo -
odd thing back then I seem to recall very little price gouging - but the
worldwide price of crude didn't go over $20 even when there was a shortage
of it.  But yeah - that was a much "larger dollar".
What we are experiencing now are the first bands of thunderstorms generated
by a MF of a hurricane.  The fact that fuel consumption efficiency has
steadily DECREASED since 1987 with our testosterone-driven 'gotta have more
power and size' consumerism has advanced our progress toward the brink.
Consumerism isn't the reason the brink exists.  Escalades and Hummers aren't
the reason we're running out of petroleum resources, they are why we are
running out sooner than we should have.
-WaV


On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 10:27 AM, Fritz Holt 
wrote:

>  Wavy,
>
> I guess I only qualify as a Butt Head as I drive a 210 HP Ford *Exploder*that 
> only gets 20 MPG highway. As has been mentioned, a big part of the
> problem is S & D. With China, India and Russia demanding more oil and
> gasoline, the supply can't keep up. I feel a little pain but I am with
> Philip in that I am just glad that I can buy the gas. It was about 1974 or
> 75 when it was so scarce that I had to know a local official in Hondo to be
> able to buy gas there for a caving trip further west.  I don't have the
> solution but I still believe that it is in the best interest of all US
> citizens that congress open all accessible areas to environmentally safe
> drilling.
>
> Happy Motoring, as one of the major oil companies used to advertise.
>
> Fritz
>
>
>  --
>
> *From:* Don Cooper [mailto:wavyca...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, July 18, 2008 12:43 AM
> *To:* Philip L Moss
> *Cc:* texascavers@texascavers.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices
>
>
>
> No - but I would give my left nut to go back to the days that gas was 1.05
> a gallon, when I was making only $19.00 an hour with excellent health
> benefits and rent, including paid utilities were only $500 a month.
> Basically, you can blame a lot of the current energy situation, worldwide,
> on assholes who feel like they are ENTITLED to drive 350hp giant SUVs
> everyday everywhere for anything.
> -WaV
>
> On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Philip L Moss 
> wrote:
>
> Do you want your income to revert to what it was when gas was $0.699/gal.
> also?  Personally, I find it less painful to fill up today than I did in the
> mid-1970s.
>
>
>
> BTW - gas prices in some places in the US in 1906 was $1.06/gallon.
> Inflation calculators say that is equivalent to over $25/gal. in 2008
> dollars.  1906 was the first year anyone drove from coast to coast in the US
> and it the trip cost about $8,000 in 1906 dollars (fuel, food, maintenance,
> and a mechanic's salary for the trip).  There is a movie called "Horatio's
> Drive" about the trip.  Energy prices have been high before, just not much
> in living memory.
>
>
>
> BTW - we do have subsidized gas prices in the US.  There are numerous tax
> breaks specifically for oil companies, their waste is never treated as
> expensively as the same waste from other industries, and I don't believe
> that the American people are getting fair market royalties for oil produced
> from public lands.
>
>
>
> Philip L. Moss
> philipm...@juno.com
>
>
>
> Louise Power  writes:
>
>  >snip<
>
> Yipes! I remember when I thought I was being ripped off at $0.699/gal.
> Gimme back those days!!!
>
>
>
> 
> Paralegal Scholarship - Click 
> Now!
>
>
>

RE: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices

[Fritz Holt]

Lyndon,
We all have to make sacrifices for our pleasures.
Fritz


-Original Message-
From: Lyndon Tiu [mailto:l...@alumni.sfu.ca]
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 10:45 AM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 10:27:39 -0500 fh...@townandcountryins.com wrote:
> Wavy,
> I guess I only qualify as a Butt Head as I drive a 210 HP Ford
> Exploder that only gets 20 MPG highway.

Your 20MPG Exploder is very good. Compare that to a certain caver's 13MPG Jeep!

How did I get that 13MPG number?

In Barnhart, I gassed up to full. Then drove to Ozona, then gassed up to full 
again. The amount of gas needed to fill the tank back up in Ozona = 2.5 gallons.

Calculations:

32 miles from Barnhart to Ozona used up 2.5 gallons = 13 MPG.

--
Lyndon Tiu

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Re: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices

[Lyndon Tiu]

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 10:27:39 -0500 fh...@townandcountryins.com wrote:
> Wavy,
> I guess I only qualify as a Butt Head as I drive a 210 HP Ford
> Exploder that only gets 20 MPG highway. 

Your 20MPG Exploder is very good. Compare that to a certain caver's 13MPG Jeep!

How did I get that 13MPG number? 

In Barnhart, I gassed up to full. Then drove to Ozona, then gassed up to full 
again. The amount of gas needed to fill the tank back up in Ozona = 2.5 gallons.

Calculations:

32 miles from Barnhart to Ozona used up 2.5 gallons = 13 MPG.

--
Lyndon Tiu

-
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RE: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices

[Fritz Holt]

Wavy,
I guess I only qualify as a Butt Head as I drive a 210 HP Ford Exploder that 
only gets 20 MPG highway. As has been mentioned, a big part of the problem is S 
& D. With China, India and Russia demanding more oil and gasoline, the supply 
can't keep up. I feel a little pain but I am with Philip in that I am just glad 
that I can buy the gas. It was about 1974 or 75 when it was so scarce that I 
had to know a local official in Hondo to be able to buy gas there for a caving 
trip further west.  I don't have the solution but I still believe that it is in 
the best interest of all US citizens that congress open all accessible areas to 
environmentally safe drilling.
Happy Motoring, as one of the major oil companies used to advertise.
Fritz


From: Don Cooper [mailto:wavyca...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 12:43 AM
To: Philip L Moss
Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] OT- gas prices

No - but I would give my left nut to go back to the days that gas was 1.05 a 
gallon, when I was making only $19.00 an hour with excellent health benefits 
and rent, including paid utilities were only $500 a month.
Basically, you can blame a lot of the current energy situation, worldwide, on 
assholes who feel like they are ENTITLED to drive 350hp giant SUVs everyday 
everywhere for anything.
-WaV
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Philip L Moss 
mailto:philipm...@juno.com>> wrote:
Do you want your income to revert to what it was when gas was $0.699/gal. also? 
 Personally, I find it less painful to fill up today than I did in the 
mid-1970s.

BTW - gas prices in some places in the US in 1906 was $1.06/gallon.  Inflation 
calculators say that is equivalent to over $25/gal. in 2008 dollars.  1906 was 
the first year anyone drove from coast to coast in the US and it the trip cost 
about $8,000 in 1906 dollars (fuel, food, maintenance, and a mechanic's salary 
for the trip).  There is a movie called "Horatio's Drive" about the trip.  
Energy prices have been high before, just not much in living memory.

BTW - we do have subsidized gas prices in the US.  There are numerous tax 
breaks specifically for oil companies, their waste is never treated as 
expensively as the same waste from other industries, and I don't believe that 
the American people are getting fair market royalties for oil produced from 
public lands.

Philip L. Moss
philipm...@juno.com

Louise Power mailto:power_lou...@hotmail.com>> writes:
>snip<
Yipes! I remember when I thought I was being ripped off at $0.699/gal. Gimme 
back those days!!!



Paralegal Scholarship - Click 
Now!

Re: [Texascavers] Helmet Cam

[Alan Blevins]

I picked up a "Tony Hawk's Helmet Cam" about a year ago with the idea
that it was cheap enough to risk breaking it in a cave or dropping it
in a pool of water. It has survived a handful of caving trips,
including a thorough beating against the sides of Robber Baron cave.

Here's one for $25:
http://www.compuplus.com/i-Digital-Blue-Tony-Hawk-Helmetcam-1011956~.html?sid=6d9v35b715u3v12

For dropping a wide pit lit by daylight like Devil's Sinkhole, it does
a reasonable job: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_8H2ewVOd4

In a cave at a range of 2-3 feet with the 2nd brightest setting
selected on a Princeton Apex, it does a reasonable job:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G83DLfvW8Y

The video quality is about what you'd expect for a camera in its price
range: 320x240, 15fps, heavy compression artifacting, and poor
low-light response. For your average stumbling through a cave, the
results are mixed from poor to unwatchable, usually because they are
too dark, but sometimes because of a weakness inherent in any helmet
cam: it's attached to you helmet, which is in turn attached to your
head. Our sneaky little brains play a very neat trick on us where in
shifting our focus from one point to another, we perceive a smooth and
seamless transition. Watching *videos* of the same transition, from
almost the same perspective, our brains don't know how to perform this
smoothing, and the result is violent and almost nauseating. A
helmet-cam operator needs a great deal of focus and discipline to
overcome the natural instinct to turn his head at a normal speed for a
human, and this is a talent I do not have! Overall, it's a fun toy
that can shoot some crappy video that's great for your local grotto's
recruitment purposes, if nothing else.

~Alan Blevins

On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 1:10 PM, Matt Turner  wrote:
> Yeah we've had a few people bring these on our beginner trips and normally
> all you really get is a low quality video of hands and dirt. They only
> capture well where your head lamp is pointed and only then if it's decently
> bright. Truthfully though as with most things it probably just takes some
> tweaking to get the results you want out of it.
>
> Matt Turner
>
> "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought
> without accepting it." - Aristotle
>
> "Empty pockets never held anyone back.Only empty heads and empty hearts can
> do that."- Norman Vincent Peale
>
> - Original Message 
> From: "Minton, Mark" 
> To: nmca...@caver.net; txcaver 
> Cc: "jcbr...@alum.rit.edu" ; yd
> 
> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 9:06:59 AM
> Subject: [Texascavers] Helmet Cam
>
>   Now you can get a good deal on a waterproof helmet camera to record
> all of your caving and other exploits.  Mountain Gear has one on sale for
> only $100.
> 
> It doesn't say how well they do in low-light though.
>
> Mark Minton
>

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