RE: [Texascavers] RE: Sea Level Rise--the Map
Couldn't help but notice the make a donation link at the bottom of the page. Smells like propoganda to me From: a...@oztotl.com To: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:36:27 -0500 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] RE: Sea Level Rise--the Map I saw that Ediger didn't include the link either so I did a google search for sea level rise map and it was the first hit. http://flood.firetree.net/ I would like to add the sea level rise WILL NOT affect this year's TCR site. Mother Nature is not invited so we are not expecting floods! Allan - Original Message - From: Minton, Mark To: texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 9:44 AM Subject: [Texascavers] RE: Sea Level Rise--the Map Ediger said:Here is the map of sea level rise I've been looking for. Where? There was no URL given. Remember - no attachments on Texascavers. :-) Mark Minton _ Connect to the next generation of MSN Messenger http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-ussource=wlmailtagline - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] imaginary overalls
Deep, kinda like some caves I've been in. That was some good chewing gum for my brain. From: gi...@att.net To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] imaginary overalls Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 00:25:40 + -- Original message -- From: Jan Campbell jan_campb...@sbcglobal.net Only if you imagine there IS no heaven. But if there is, isn't it an objective reality, rather than a subjective one? We now come to the philosophical portion of our program: Imagining that there is no Heaven would pretty much be equal to imagining that there is. They are both active pursuits--something that one has to make an active effort to realize. On the other hand, there is a passive condition that is necessary to the understanding of the mechanism of belief systems to begin with. To actively imagine that there is no Heaven requires an active back formation from an active imagination that there is a Heaven. To wit: Way back in the development of humanity there was a time before any concepts of the supernatural, of gods, of heaven had been imagined. There was no belief system--in Heaven or anything else; we hadn't learned to do it yet. This lack of belief was totally passive--no one had to take any action in order to not believe in Heaven, or to not imagine it or anything else. Only after someone had imagined that there was a Heaven and popularized it into the imagination of other people--be they merely family members or entire societies--would anyone be required to actively imagine that a heaven did not exist. The purity of an uncorrupted imagination had been polluted by the otherwise unsupported belief system of overly active minds. And that, essentially, is the problem with the concept of atheism--it is a back formation of a belief system that something is real which the atheists never bought into in the first place. In their natural state they are not non-believers; they were there first, before there were believers. So they have been named and put into a defensive position by the mass neurosis of a socially driven belief system that they are otherwise not an active part of. But even if there is a Heaven, it is highly likely that it makes no difference at all if one believes in it or not, since there is no proof or evidence that anyone's concept of what Heaven--physically or spiritually--consists of, or that their belief or lack of belief in it makes any difference--now or ever. It is all subject to to the vagaries of one's own imagination based upon a mother's stories, picture books, personal tastes, and other incidental visions. In that case it's subjective. But one's images of a heaven based on personal greed--say like eternal life happiness (a mighty convoluted concept in it's own right)--makes for a very objective heaven. Doesn't it? ...the object of one's desires. I think it is no accident that in Spanish the word which means to wish also means to wait. Striving to be as open minded as possible I would never insist that the existance of an actual physical/spiritual Heaven is completely beyond the realm of possibility. Remember that my earlier statement the Universe is stranger than we can imagine leaves room for such all things beyond that of the imagination. But at the same time I would be willing to wager that the odds of such a thing would be a good bit worse than the odds of, say, winning the lottery--three or four times in a row. All in all, it makes no difference what one believes because that is all it is, just a belief--it is a concept of the imagination without any basis of further solidity: physical, spiritual, magical, or any other type of hocus-pocus one may further conceive or pretend to be true. Though things may be absolutely real in the imagination, that is the limit of their reality. The proof of that is that if something is physically real, then their is no need to believe in it--in fact, to say one believed in something one can touch is not belief but physical reality. --Ediger - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com _ A place for moms to take a break! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHMloc=us - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] Floyd Collins House
Floyd died in Sand cave but, owned and opperated Crystal cave. There's some good books and stories that surround that fellow... I would be interested in the name of that movie though, I remember a Simpsons episode that paralleled the baby in the well in Midland and it seemed to depict the circus that surounded the Floyd deal as well From: Fritz Holt fh...@townandcountryins.com To: Preston Forsythe pns_...@bellsouth.net,Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Floyd Collins House Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 11:05:59 -0500 Having read early accounts of Floyd Collins being trapped and dying in Crystal Cave and Preston's post reminds me of the cave related movie, The Big Circus. This movie is from the 50's or maybe 60's and is a take-off of what went on above ground during the rescue attempt. I'll check my movie book at home tonight if anyone is interested in more details. Kirk Douglas may be in it. Fritz _ From: Preston Forsythe [mailto:pns_...@bellsouth.net] Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 9:34 PM To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] Floyd Collins House I am going to send this again as I don't think it posted earlier today. On Aug. 5th we hiked down to the Collins House. The Floyd Collins House at Mammoth Cave National Park is being restored. Two park maintenance men have been working on the home all summer. The house has been jacked up and all of the rotten foundation wood and flooring have been replaced. Foundation stone has been redone so the house is now well off the ground and the floor is level. New drywall has been installed, the chimney brick inside from the collapsed chimney has been removed and the roof has been repaired with new metal. We thank Bob Ward at the park for this restoration. The last major restoration on the House was done in the late '80s by park maintenance head C.D. Church and crew. The Crystal Cave Ticket Office, beside Floyd's Home, was restored last summer in a similar fashion. Cavingly, Preston _ See what you�re getting into�before you go there http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507 - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] US Border Fences 'an Eco-Danger' (Sigma Xi Science News Daily)
Oh good gravy! If anyone has seen the river that flows out of Acunia (other side of the dam from lake Amistad) it would be obvious that the environment is of no concern to Mexico From: cavera...@aol.com To: Texascavers@texascavers.com, cano...@world.std.com, greater_houston_gro...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Texascavers] US Border Fences 'an Eco-Danger' (Sigma Xi Science News Daily) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 10:26:27 EDT US Border Fences 'an Eco-Danger' from BBC News Online Mexico has urged the US to alter its plans for expanded fences along their shared border, saying they would damage the environment and harm wildlife. The fences threaten unique ecosystems, Mexican environment officials warned. Mexico was ready to file a complaint with the International Court of Justice over the matter if the US did not respond, the environment minister said. The planned barriers aim to curb illegal immigration, a highly divisive and controversial issue in the US. The fences, planned along a possible 700 miles (1,125km) of the border, are to be equipped with hi-tech surveillance equipment, including sensors and strong lights. The eventual construction of this barrier would place at risk the various ecosystems that we share, Mexico's Environment Minister Juan Rafael Elvira told a news conference. To read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6924475.stm Or: http://tinyurl.com/ytdpdl Roger Moore Houston ** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour _ Now you can see trouble�before he arrives http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_protection_0507 - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] US Border Fences 'an Eco-Danger' (Sigma Xi Science News Daily)
On one side of the fence we have The Devils River (the cleanest in Texas!) On the other side they have whaterver that green smelly thing is called running out of Acuna, With this in mind the contrast has never been greater between our two countries. No wonder the (real) Mexicans (the rest are Americans) want to come over here. I hope I wasn't mistaken about about gripping about our neighbors down south, I just dont see how Mexico can take an enviromental stance on this issue. As caver, we tend to be a liitle environMENTAL when it comes to our playground so, I think this is a good thread. I'm sorry if some want to cry about it. From: Joe S. Ranzau j...@oztotl.com To: 'Louise Power' power_lou...@hotmail.com CC: Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] US Border Fences 'an Eco-Danger' (Sigma Xi Science News Daily) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 18:48:35 -0500 Ha! It takes a hell of a lot more than this. lol _ From: Louise Power [mailto:power_lou...@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 5:00 PM To: fh...@townandcountryins.com; jcra...@edwardsaquifer.org; pitboun...@gmail.com; stefan.crea...@arm.com Cc: nan...@io.com; Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] US Border Fences 'an Eco-Danger' (Sigma Xi Science News Daily) Could we please get away from this inflamatory political rhetoric before someone complains to the webmaster and you're all thrown off forever. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com _ Puzzles, trivia teasers, word scrambles and more. Play for your chance to win! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_hotmailtextlink - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] RE: Wyandotte airflow
Wyandotte, what a cool cave! I went there ten years ago on a tour with a good guide. I had been up all night driving from Lubbock, so it was fun to just relax and stroll thru the cave like a zombie. The guide and I were the only two on the trip and he was so embarrassed by the Christmas tree lights all over the rock cairns in that one room, (I don't know if those lights still exist.) It also had an Odd Fellows room in it, I remember stumbling across Dead Horse cave at the Idaho convention that was an Odd Fellows hall. I always meant to look into those folks, all I know is that they were some type fraternal secret thing. Tim From: Jim Kennedy jkenn...@batcon.org To: Minton, Mark mmin...@nmhu.edu,texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] RE: Wyandotte airflow Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 18:57:04 -0500 I have been in Wyandotte for the full week before Convention and the last few days since Convention, mostly mapping the airflow and historic bat roost stains throughout the cave. It is true that a great deal of air is contributed by the Easter Pit entrance and entire Easter Pit section of the cave, but there are other air inputs not currently accounted for by the known entrances. Those kinds of things always make me say hm... -- Crash From: Minton, Mark [mailto:mmin...@nmhu.edu] Sent: Wed 8/1/2007 1:52 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] RE: NSS Convention Report # 14 David Locklear said: I was impressed with Wyandotte Cave.It had good air-flow and I thought it was the coldest of the 12 Indiana caves that I visited. I would like to see more of this cave someday.I believe several cavers went on long trips during the convention into this cave. Are any of you out there? Yvonne Droms and I were part of a group of 17(!) people who went to Easter Pit on the Saturday after Convention. It is a back entrance to Wyandotte. (See map on CD that came with the Convention Guidebook.) It has good airflow, and the connection no doubt accounts for much of the airflow in both parts of the system. We did not get to do a through trip, and I do not know if anyone went into Wyandotte proper on wild tours during the Convention. Easter Pit also has large borehole and big rooms, but a very tight entrance canyon and lots of crawling (much of it dug out) in the back toward the connection area. It is a fun cave and one rarely seen since it is usually closed. Mark Minton _ Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more�.then map the best route! http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2ss=yp.bars~yp.pizza~yp.movie%20theatercp=42.358996~-71.056691style=rlvl=13tilt=-90dir=0alt=-1000scene=950607encType=1FORM=MGAC01 - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] Re: About big cats
About ten years ago I was camping with some old friends from Indiana in Big Bend. We were just north of the mountains. My friends were asking the park ranger about fossils so, the park ranger sent us to igneous rock. Smart move of conservation on the rangers part, those guys couldn't keep finds out of their pockets. Anyhow, I was taking a morning walk and out of a small clump of trees a buck jumped out, stopped took a look at me and hauled ass. I thought that was kinda cool and wathched him off into the distance, (you can see forever in that part of the country.) Just as I started to move on, another rustle came from the same area. I just got a glimps of its shoulder and tail as a mountain lion took off like a rocket in the other dirrection. I just ruined his breakfast and was glad I wasn't a second choice on the menu. From: Mike Flannigan mikef...@earthlink.net To: Cavetex Texascavers@texascavers.com, speleoste...@tx.rr.com Subject: [Texascavers] Re: About big cats Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 21:56:40 -0600 In 1978 or 1979 my brother and I took off from St. Louis in a Levi's Gremlin I owned and drove to Austin for the Willie Nelson picnic he first held on that golf course he bought for the concerts. BTW, does anybody here know if that was 1978 or 1979? I've been thinking 1979 all these years, but now think 1978. That is when we learned what great partiers Texans are. Then we drove across the country to Yosemite. Did a 3 day hike from Porcupine Flat to the top of the main falls, then hiked up the Merced river? to the campground about 7 miles above the falls. On the way to the campground we were in the creek bottom and had a large cat on the cliff above us. It was not real big and was not really stalking much, but I think it was a mountain lion and not a bobcat. We were not very afraid of it even though it was pretty close - probably only 100 ft away. We just thought it was checking us out, which is probably the case. Mike On Thu, 12 Jul 2007, speleoste...@tx.rr.com wrote: Subject:About big cats Date:Thu, 12 Jul 2007 4:56:24 -0700 From: speleoste...@tx.rr.com To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Big Cats By: Gary Stewart (Gadsden, Alabama) I wanted to comment on the big cat story I just read and relate some of my experiences. The only mountain lion encounter I have had was in Steele, Alabama west of Gadsden in 1979. There was a cattleman in that area thet was offering a $1000.00 dollar reward for the killing of a black panther' that had been killing his cattle. Myself and 2 friends decided we would try to collect on the bounty since we were young and stupid and I had just returned from overseas in the Navy and need the money. We were several miles up into an area and new we were close because you could smell where it had marked its territory. We went up snip - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com _ Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!� http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_hotmailtextlink2 - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] NM Caves featured in new magazine
I remember a friend of mine passing through town 10 years ago gave me a pamphlet of Fort Stanton Cave that he got from a hotel in Roswell. From: dirt...@comcast.net To: Texascavers@texascavers.com (Cave Texas), nmca...@caver.net (Cave NM) Subject: [Texascavers] NM Caves featured in new magazine Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 03:26:00 + NM Caves featured in new magazine Today I received a complementary copy of the second issue of �Oh, So � Ruidoso� magazine, a very slick new publication clearly aimed at those who own very nice second homes in Ruidoso. It is not completely clear why I should be �honored�, but likely because we do own a rental property just off Sudderth Drive, a result of spending 35 years on ski patrol --. There are two very nice articles on caves � one on Carlsbad Caverns and a second on Fort Stanton Cave and Snowy River. Is a nice job, clearly promoted by the BLM. Along with a few great photos, Penny Boston, John McLean, John Corcoran, Donald Davis, and Mike Bilbo are quoted and other cave notables mentioned (or is that cave mentionables noted?) I am sure that there will be a lot of locals requesting permission to visit the cave, and also assume that the BLM Roswell Office is prepared -. DirtDoc - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com _ http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-usocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_pcmag_0507 - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] RE: Dermabond Skin Glue
I worked as a screen printer for number of years and would sometimes slice my finger cutting stencils or handling card stock. Super glue worked great, it kept all the solvents out when washing screens and everything seemed to heal faster. Sometimes out of convenience it becomes necessary not to wear gloves and my hands are prone to a tot of abuse and super glue is the shit. Tim From: Fritz Holt fh...@townandcountryins.com To: speleoste...@tx.rr.com,Minton, Mark mmin...@nmhu.edu CC: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RE: Dermabond Skin Glue Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 14:51:43 -0500 It seems as if wearing gloves might be a better solution. This avoids blisters and sunburned hands. Geezer -Original Message- From: speleoste...@tx.rr.com [mailto:speleoste...@tx.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 8:51 AM To: Minton, Mark Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] RE: Dermabond Skin Glue When I rafted 225 miles of the Colorado River through the Grand Canyon three years ago, I witnessed Utah caver and rafter Doug Powell applying Super Glue to his nicked and slightly lacerated hands each morning before we took to the river. He rowed his own raft the whole way. Bill Minton wrote: David Locklear said: Do cavers carry super-glue in their cave-packs? Is DermaBond Skin Glue something you can get without a prescription. Surgical skin glue has been around for a long time. I think it first came out during the Vietnam war for emergency use on the battlefield. That was one of the first uses of super glue (cyanoacrylate). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanoacrylate I have indeed heard of people using super glue to close wounds in an emergency, but I have not seen it done in a cave. The medical variety is slightly different from the home adhesive, but the latter would work in a pinch. Mark Minton - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com _ http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=hmtextlinkjuly07 - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers]OT gas prices
Think about the cost it takes to refine drinking water as opposed gasoline. I never hear anyone complain about the price of water. Back in the 70's the gas crisis was a big deal, the price of it went up and the economy car was the new standard. We all know now that was a giant lie. Are these hybred cars going to become the new Ford Pintos? It cost me about eight more dollars to drive to Carlsbad now, Oh, I'm such a victim. _ More photos, more messages, more storage�get 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-usocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507 - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] RE: Math Skills
Einstein once said that if you think of how smart the average Joe is, half the population are more stupid than that. From: Minton, Mark mmin...@nmhu.edu To: Cave Texas Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] RE: Math Skills Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 14:00:54 -0400 Fritz Holt said: Most math skills for dollars and cents are so poor that cashiers would be lost if the register did not tell them how much change was due the customer. That's for sure. I often give a cashier a larger bill than the total due, plus some coins to make the change come out more even, so that I'll get a nickel or a dime rather than a bunch of pennies. Sometimes they just push the coins back and make change out of the large bill, as if I didn't realize I already had enough cash on the table. Those are usually the ones who try to think about it. If they just punch it into the cash register, they give me what it says and don't appear to think about it one way or another. Other times they are totally stumped, and I have to explain what I want. It's sad. Mark _ PC Magazine�s 2007 editors� choice for best Web mail�award-winning Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-usocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_pcmag_0507 - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
