Re: [Vo]:Sealing the Dog Bone
It may be that the hydrogen only acts to help distribute the Li-7 to the Ni isotopes for the Li-7+Ni reactions Jones suggested back in October and Eric has just reviewed. There has been talk of the idea that Li-H vaporizes at about 900 degrees within the reactor chamber. It would condense in the cooler cracks and help seal the chamber if that is necessary. In any case H may not be involved in the reaction and its exfiltration is not a problem. Only the loss of Li would be a problem, since it would be the necessary reactant with Ni in the Rossi device tested at Lugano. As far as I know an accounting of H in the Lugano report was not accomplished. I also think there likely is a mechanism for distribution of heat energy within the reactor chamber to keep things from melting or sintering. This would most likely be accomplished by a heat transfer gas of some sort. It may be Li-H vapor, Li vapor or some other gas evolved from the fuel and/or the body of the reactor chamber as the device heats up.If the mechanism were EM, it would have to be a fairly local emission/absorption reaction, otherwise it would not be effective in distributing the heat and maintaining a constant temperature. Of course this assumption would not be correct, if most of the LENR energy is EM and escapes the local reaction site to be absorbed in the body of the alumina. In that case the self sustaining mode would depend upon the conduction of heat from the alumina to the cooler internal reactor chamber to keep the reaction going. Controlling the reaction would be a matter of keeping it hot given the cooling (loss of energy) from the reaction location--a nice problem to have when it comes to dynamics and control-- in that it would constitute a negative temperature coeff. But assuming the LENR happens in a fixed temperature range and stops if it gets too hot, there is a built in negative temperature coeff. which also seems to me to be a necessary feature of the reactor. The ideas hinge on the idea that resonances of some sort are necessary to get the reaction to occur. There may be an effective resonant absorption cross section for LI-7 and the various Ni isotope reactions to facilitate the LENR reaction---phonic resonances with the nano particles of Ni fuel, EM resonances for photon absorption and emission, nuclear magnetic resonances etc., and/or some combination of these parameters. I would guess understanding these resonant details, a complex problem, will be required to get a firm handle on the science of any specific LENR system. Engineering which includes a lot of trial and error is probably the most practical way to get a working device. I think this is what Rossi has been doing over the years he has been working on his reactor. Most advances in technology are based on a mixture of trial and error work and application of half-baked theory. They go hand in hand. Rossi's half baked theory turned out pretty good. Mills I think also took this approach, but may have had a too--narrow perspective (a bias) of possible reactions and resonances considering his theory. His has been and is a worthy endeavor, however. Bob Cook - Original Message - From: Axil Axil To: vortex-l Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 7:23 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Sealing the Dog Bone http://luratia.com/graphene/graphene-is-impermeable Graphene is impermeable to all gases including hydrogen but it will let water through like it was not even there, http://phys.org/news/2012-01-graphene-supermaterial-superpermeable.html I segest a surface coating of nano Graphene produced by an application of nano powdered Graphene on the inside surface of the Alumina tube to keep the hydrogen in. The GO membrain http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1112/1112.3488.pdf I believe this use of Nano Graphene to make the inside surface of the alumina impermeable to gas exfiltration was the reason why large amounts of carbon was found in the fuel load of Rossi's Hot Cat. On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 2:58 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Let us not underestimate Rossi. The account of how Rossi loaded the fuel into the alumina tubes told by the TPR2 report does not sound like Rossi when through a complicated time consuming and/or involved alumina sealing process to protect against hydrogen leakage. An excerpt from the Lugano report: A thermocouple probe, inserted into one of the caps, allows the control system to manage power supply to the resistors by measuring the internal temperature of the reactor. The hole for the thermocouple probe is also the only access point for the fuel charge. The thermocouple probe cable is inserted in an alumina cement cylinder, which acts as a bushing and perfectly fits the hole, about 4 mm in diameter. When charging the reactor, the bushing is pulled out, and the charge is inserted. After
Re: [Vo]:Sealing the Dog Bone
http://luratia.com/graphene/graphene-is-impermeable Graphene is impermeable to all gases including hydrogen but it will let water through like it was not even there, http://phys.org/news/2012-01-graphene-supermaterial-superpermeable.html I segest a surface coating of nano Graphene produced by an application of nano powdered Graphene on the inside surface of the Alumina tube to keep the hydrogen in. The GO membrain http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1112/1112.3488.pdf I believe this use of Nano Graphene to make the inside surface of the alumina impermeable to gas exfiltration was the reason why large amounts of carbon was found in the fuel load of Rossi's Hot Cat. On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 2:58 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Let us not underestimate Rossi. The account of how Rossi loaded the fuel into the alumina tubes told by the TPR2 report does not sound like Rossi when through a complicated time consuming and/or involved alumina sealing process to protect against hydrogen leakage. An excerpt from the Lugano report: A thermocouple probe, inserted into one of the caps, allows the control system to manage power supply to the resistors by measuring the internal temperature of the reactor. The hole for the thermocouple probe is also the only access point for the fuel charge. The thermocouple probe cable is inserted in an alumina cement cylinder, which acts as a bushing and perfectly fits the hole, about 4 mm in diameter. When charging the reactor, the bushing is pulled out, and the charge is inserted. After the thermocouple probe has been lodged back in place, the bushing is sealed and secured with alumina cement. To extract the charge, pliers are used to open the seal. These recent tests by MFMP indicate that sealing alumina from hydrogen leakage is a challenge. But the Rossi Hot Cat did run for weeks without apparent loss of hydrogen. Rossi has come up with a way to effectively seal alumina. How could have Rossi made the alumina tube resistant to hydrogen leakage? Could Rossi have used a self sealing additive included in the fuel mix that entered the pores of the alumina after the reactor was started to minimize hydrogen exfiltration? There was a large amount of carbon in the element analysis of the fuel load. Could it be that Rossi used a organic sealant to stop hydrogen leakage? An excerpt from the Lugano report: Besides the analyzed elements it has been found that the fuel also contains rather high concentrations of C, Ca, Cl, Fe, Mg, Mn and these are not found in the ash. Where did all those rather high concentrations of elements go? Could it be that the C, Ca, Cl, Fe, Mg, and Mn were nano particles used to seal the fuel including hydrogen by blocking the pores of the alumina in a self anodizing process in the initial stages during of reactor startup? Carbon is a well know hydrogen blocker.
Re: [Vo]:Sealing the Dog Bone
I did not mean to slight Robin. He always has interesting and well founded comments. Robins suggestion seems to match the depletion of the Ni isotopes to one degree or another and also a potential depletion of Li-7. Eric--where does you factor of 10-20 come from? I thought the depletion of Li-7 from the fuel was from 93% Li-7 and 7% Li-6 to ash with 7.9% to 42.5% Li-7 and would be consistent with the idea that the Li-7 changed to Li-6. The report did not quantitatively identify the depletion of Li-7, only its relative isotopic abundance. (7.9% of 93% is 1/12 or about 8% and 42.5% of 93% is 45%) McKubre addresses this issue of Li-7 involvement in the Lugano test in his review of the test that can be found on page 11 of INFINITE ENERGY, Issue 118 of November/December 2014. (McKubre points out that the authors of the test suggested that Be-8 was formed from Li-7 and H and that it decayed to 2 He atoms. They did not address the mechanism for the Ni isotope changes.) Bob - Original Message - From: Eric Walker To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Sealing the Dog Bone On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 9:24 AM, Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com wrote: It may be that the hydrogen only acts to help distribute the Li-7 to the Ni isotopes for the Li-7+Ni reactions Jones suggested back in October and Eric has just reviewed. Just a small correction. It was Robin that suggested that what was going on was a chain of 7Li(Ni,Ni)6Li neutron-stripping reactions. This is a suggestion that I'm still partial to. Unless there has been an error in my analysis, I'm inclined to think the percentage of lithium reported in the 2mg sample from the Lugano assay was unrepresentative of the percentage of lithium in the total charge by a factor of 10-20. Admittedly, this is a heavy strike against the proposed involvement of 7Li, all else being equal. Most advances in technology are based on a mixture of trial and error work and application of half-baked theory. They go hand in hand. Nice summary. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Sealing the Dog Bone
Eric-- Also keep in mind the physics student, Carl-Oscar Gullstrom, at the Uppsala University and under one of the Lugano authors, has a theory that is similar to Robin's idea. Its worth reviewing. http://www.scribd.com/doc/244393652/Low-radiation-fusion-through-bound-neutron-tunneling Bob - Original Message - From: Eric Walker To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Sealing the Dog Bone On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 9:24 AM, Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com wrote: It may be that the hydrogen only acts to help distribute the Li-7 to the Ni isotopes for the Li-7+Ni reactions Jones suggested back in October and Eric has just reviewed. Just a small correction. It was Robin that suggested that what was going on was a chain of 7Li(Ni,Ni)6Li neutron-stripping reactions. This is a suggestion that I'm still partial to. Unless there has been an error in my analysis, I'm inclined to think the percentage of lithium reported in the 2mg sample from the Lugano assay was unrepresentative of the percentage of lithium in the total charge by a factor of 10-20. Admittedly, this is a heavy strike against the proposed involvement of 7Li, all else being equal. Most advances in technology are based on a mixture of trial and error work and application of half-baked theory. They go hand in hand. Nice summary. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Sealing the Dog Bone
On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 9:24 AM, Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com wrote: It may be that the hydrogen only acts to help distribute the Li-7 to the Ni isotopes for the Li-7+Ni reactions Jones suggested back in October and Eric has just reviewed. Just a small correction. It was Robin that suggested that what was going on was a chain of 7Li(Ni,Ni)6Li neutron-stripping reactions. This is a suggestion that I'm still partial to. Unless there has been an error in my analysis, I'm inclined to think the percentage of lithium reported in the 2mg sample from the Lugano assay was unrepresentative of the percentage of lithium in the total charge by a factor of 10-20. Admittedly, this is a heavy strike against the proposed involvement of 7Li, all else being equal. Most advances in technology are based on a mixture of trial and error work and application of half-baked theory. They go hand in hand. Nice summary. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Sealing the Dog Bone
The element analysis was done based on just a few grains of material. This is like trying to determine who will be elected to office by polling just one person. The results of the transmutation analysis are indeed uncertain. On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 4:13 PM, Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com wrote: Axil-- Have you seen any data that confirms the presence of H gas at the end of the Lugano test or any other Hot-Cat test? I presume the containment of H is a guess on your part. Bob - Original Message - *From:* Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com *To:* vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Saturday, January 03, 2015 7:23 AM *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Sealing the Dog Bone http://luratia.com/graphene/graphene-is-impermeable Graphene is impermeable to all gases including hydrogen but it will let water through like it was not even there, http://phys.org/news/2012-01-graphene-supermaterial-superpermeable.html I segest a surface coating of nano Graphene produced by an application of nano powdered Graphene on the inside surface of the Alumina tube to keep the hydrogen in. The GO membrain http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1112/1112.3488.pdf I believe this use of Nano Graphene to make the inside surface of the alumina impermeable to gas exfiltration was the reason why large amounts of carbon was found in the fuel load of Rossi's Hot Cat. On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 2:58 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Let us not underestimate Rossi. The account of how Rossi loaded the fuel into the alumina tubes told by the TPR2 report does not sound like Rossi when through a complicated time consuming and/or involved alumina sealing process to protect against hydrogen leakage. An excerpt from the Lugano report: A thermocouple probe, inserted into one of the caps, allows the control system to manage power supply to the resistors by measuring the internal temperature of the reactor. The hole for the thermocouple probe is also the only access point for the fuel charge. The thermocouple probe cable is inserted in an alumina cement cylinder, which acts as a bushing and perfectly fits the hole, about 4 mm in diameter. When charging the reactor, the bushing is pulled out, and the charge is inserted. After the thermocouple probe has been lodged back in place, the bushing is sealed and secured with alumina cement. To extract the charge, pliers are used to open the seal. These recent tests by MFMP indicate that sealing alumina from hydrogen leakage is a challenge. But the Rossi Hot Cat did run for weeks without apparent loss of hydrogen. Rossi has come up with a way to effectively seal alumina. How could have Rossi made the alumina tube resistant to hydrogen leakage? Could Rossi have used a self sealing additive included in the fuel mix that entered the pores of the alumina after the reactor was started to minimize hydrogen exfiltration? There was a large amount of carbon in the element analysis of the fuel load. Could it be that Rossi used a organic sealant to stop hydrogen leakage? An excerpt from the Lugano report: Besides the analyzed elements it has been found that the fuel also contains rather high concentrations of C, Ca, Cl, Fe, Mg, Mn and these are not found in the ash. Where did all those rather high concentrations of elements go? Could it be that the C, Ca, Cl, Fe, Mg, and Mn were nano particles used to seal the fuel including hydrogen by blocking the pores of the alumina in a self anodizing process in the initial stages during of reactor startup? Carbon is a well know hydrogen blocker.
Re: [Vo]:Sealing the Dog Bone
From the TPR2 report: The elements C, H, O, N, He, Ar and F cannot be measured quantitatively by this technique. There is a blink spot in the analysis involving hydrogen. On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 4:13 PM, Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com wrote: Axil-- Have you seen any data that confirms the presence of H gas at the end of the Lugano test or any other Hot-Cat test? I presume the containment of H is a guess on your part. Bob - Original Message - *From:* Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com *To:* vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Saturday, January 03, 2015 7:23 AM *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Sealing the Dog Bone http://luratia.com/graphene/graphene-is-impermeable Graphene is impermeable to all gases including hydrogen but it will let water through like it was not even there, http://phys.org/news/2012-01-graphene-supermaterial-superpermeable.html I segest a surface coating of nano Graphene produced by an application of nano powdered Graphene on the inside surface of the Alumina tube to keep the hydrogen in. The GO membrain http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1112/1112.3488.pdf I believe this use of Nano Graphene to make the inside surface of the alumina impermeable to gas exfiltration was the reason why large amounts of carbon was found in the fuel load of Rossi's Hot Cat. On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 2:58 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Let us not underestimate Rossi. The account of how Rossi loaded the fuel into the alumina tubes told by the TPR2 report does not sound like Rossi when through a complicated time consuming and/or involved alumina sealing process to protect against hydrogen leakage. An excerpt from the Lugano report: A thermocouple probe, inserted into one of the caps, allows the control system to manage power supply to the resistors by measuring the internal temperature of the reactor. The hole for the thermocouple probe is also the only access point for the fuel charge. The thermocouple probe cable is inserted in an alumina cement cylinder, which acts as a bushing and perfectly fits the hole, about 4 mm in diameter. When charging the reactor, the bushing is pulled out, and the charge is inserted. After the thermocouple probe has been lodged back in place, the bushing is sealed and secured with alumina cement. To extract the charge, pliers are used to open the seal. These recent tests by MFMP indicate that sealing alumina from hydrogen leakage is a challenge. But the Rossi Hot Cat did run for weeks without apparent loss of hydrogen. Rossi has come up with a way to effectively seal alumina. How could have Rossi made the alumina tube resistant to hydrogen leakage? Could Rossi have used a self sealing additive included in the fuel mix that entered the pores of the alumina after the reactor was started to minimize hydrogen exfiltration? There was a large amount of carbon in the element analysis of the fuel load. Could it be that Rossi used a organic sealant to stop hydrogen leakage? An excerpt from the Lugano report: Besides the analyzed elements it has been found that the fuel also contains rather high concentrations of C, Ca, Cl, Fe, Mg, Mn and these are not found in the ash. Where did all those rather high concentrations of elements go? Could it be that the C, Ca, Cl, Fe, Mg, and Mn were nano particles used to seal the fuel including hydrogen by blocking the pores of the alumina in a self anodizing process in the initial stages during of reactor startup? Carbon is a well know hydrogen blocker.
Re: [Vo]:Sealing the Dog Bone
Axil-- Have you seen any data that confirms the presence of H gas at the end of the Lugano test or any other Hot-Cat test? I presume the containment of H is a guess on your part. Bob - Original Message - From: Axil Axil To: vortex-l Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 7:23 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Sealing the Dog Bone http://luratia.com/graphene/graphene-is-impermeable Graphene is impermeable to all gases including hydrogen but it will let water through like it was not even there, http://phys.org/news/2012-01-graphene-supermaterial-superpermeable.html I segest a surface coating of nano Graphene produced by an application of nano powdered Graphene on the inside surface of the Alumina tube to keep the hydrogen in. The GO membrain http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1112/1112.3488.pdf I believe this use of Nano Graphene to make the inside surface of the alumina impermeable to gas exfiltration was the reason why large amounts of carbon was found in the fuel load of Rossi's Hot Cat. On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 2:58 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Let us not underestimate Rossi. The account of how Rossi loaded the fuel into the alumina tubes told by the TPR2 report does not sound like Rossi when through a complicated time consuming and/or involved alumina sealing process to protect against hydrogen leakage. An excerpt from the Lugano report: A thermocouple probe, inserted into one of the caps, allows the control system to manage power supply to the resistors by measuring the internal temperature of the reactor. The hole for the thermocouple probe is also the only access point for the fuel charge. The thermocouple probe cable is inserted in an alumina cement cylinder, which acts as a bushing and perfectly fits the hole, about 4 mm in diameter. When charging the reactor, the bushing is pulled out, and the charge is inserted. After the thermocouple probe has been lodged back in place, the bushing is sealed and secured with alumina cement. To extract the charge, pliers are used to open the seal. These recent tests by MFMP indicate that sealing alumina from hydrogen leakage is a challenge. But the Rossi Hot Cat did run for weeks without apparent loss of hydrogen. Rossi has come up with a way to effectively seal alumina. How could have Rossi made the alumina tube resistant to hydrogen leakage? Could Rossi have used a self sealing additive included in the fuel mix that entered the pores of the alumina after the reactor was started to minimize hydrogen exfiltration? There was a large amount of carbon in the element analysis of the fuel load. Could it be that Rossi used a organic sealant to stop hydrogen leakage? An excerpt from the Lugano report: Besides the analyzed elements it has been found that the fuel also contains rather high concentrations of C, Ca, Cl, Fe, Mg, Mn and these are not found in the ash. Where did all those rather high concentrations of elements go? Could it be that the C, Ca, Cl, Fe, Mg, and Mn were nano particles used to seal the fuel including hydrogen by blocking the pores of the alumina in a self anodizing process in the initial stages during of reactor startup? Carbon is a well know hydrogen blocker.
Re: [Vo]:Sealing the Dog Bone
I'm not sure if Axil gets credit for first bringing up graphene, but I've often wondered if there weren't a role for it in either the macro- or nano- structure of a device. BTW, graphene can be 3d printed on regular machines, while alumina can be 2d printed (with some difficulty I believe) on laser lithography type 3d printers. ken On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 12:21 PM, Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com wrote: Eric-- Also keep in mind the physics student, Carl-Oscar Gullstrom, at the Uppsala University and under one of the Lugano authors, has a theory that is similar to Robin's idea. Its worth reviewing. http://www.scribd.com/doc/244393652/Low-radiation-fusion-through-bound-neutron-tunneling Bob - Original Message - *From:* Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Saturday, January 03, 2015 10:16 AM *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Sealing the Dog Bone On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 9:24 AM, Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com wrote: It may be that the hydrogen only acts to help distribute the Li-7 to the Ni isotopes for the Li-7+Ni reactions Jones suggested back in October and Eric has just reviewed. Just a small correction. It was Robin that suggested that what was going on was a chain of 7Li(Ni,Ni)6Li neutron-stripping reactions. This is a suggestion that I'm still partial to. Unless there has been an error in my analysis, I'm inclined to think the percentage of lithium reported in the 2mg sample from the Lugano assay was unrepresentative of the percentage of lithium in the total charge by a factor of 10-20. Admittedly, this is a heavy strike against the proposed involvement of 7Li, all else being equal. Most advances in technology are based on a mixture of trial and error work and application of half-baked theory. They go hand in hand. Nice summary. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Sealing the Dog Bone
On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 11:21 AM, Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com wrote: Also keep in mind the physics student, Carl-Oscar Gullstrom, at the Uppsala University and under one of the Lugano authors, has a theory that is similar to Robin's idea. Yes -- I saw that. I note that Gullstrom's writeup is dated several weeks after Robin's post. I do not have an opinion on the specifics in Gullstrom's paper, which I haven't taken a close look at yet, and whose merits I probably wouldn't be in a position to evaluate. Eric
[Vo]:Sealing the Dog Bone
Let us not underestimate Rossi. The account of how Rossi loaded the fuel into the alumina tubes told by the TPR2 report does not sound like Rossi when through a complicated time consuming and/or involved alumina sealing process to protect against hydrogen leakage. An excerpt from the Lugano report: A thermocouple probe, inserted into one of the caps, allows the control system to manage power supply to the resistors by measuring the internal temperature of the reactor. The hole for the thermocouple probe is also the only access point for the fuel charge. The thermocouple probe cable is inserted in an alumina cement cylinder, which acts as a bushing and perfectly fits the hole, about 4 mm in diameter. When charging the reactor, the bushing is pulled out, and the charge is inserted. After the thermocouple probe has been lodged back in place, the bushing is sealed and secured with alumina cement. To extract the charge, pliers are used to open the seal. These recent tests by MFMP indicate that sealing alumina from hydrogen leakage is a challenge. But the Rossi Hot Cat did run for weeks without apparent loss of hydrogen. Rossi has come up with a way to effectively seal alumina. How could have Rossi made the alumina tube resistant to hydrogen leakage? Could Rossi have used a self sealing additive included in the fuel mix that entered the pores of the alumina after the reactor was started to minimize hydrogen exfiltration? There was a large amount of carbon in the element analysis of the fuel load. Could it be that Rossi used a organic sealant to stop hydrogen leakage? An excerpt from the Lugano report: Besides the analyzed elements it has been found that the fuel also contains rather high concentrations of C, Ca, Cl, Fe, Mg, Mn and these are not found in the ash. Where did all those rather high concentrations of elements go? Could it be that the C, Ca, Cl, Fe, Mg, and Mn were nano particles used to seal the fuel including hydrogen by blocking the pores of the alumina in a self anodizing process in the initial stages during of reactor startup? Carbon is a well know hydrogen blocker.
