Giovanni Andreani wrote:
[snip]
Well, there's a lot to say here, and I'll obviously cover one minimum
percentage of the aspect.
One thing I have learned, traveling, living and studying in countries
also different from my homeland is that it's difficult to state the real,
deepest meaning one intends
>> Allegro, andante, old Italian. Who in this time (in their native
>> language)
>> actually puts "happy" as a musical direction or "walking"? (Okay,
>> maybe the
>> Italians. Sr. Andreani, care to respond?)
>
>"Walking" isn't a very good translation of "andante". The closest
>English equivalen
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> James Bailey
writes:
>
>The point is, classical people like to use older terms, I think it makes us
>feel superior.
If you play old music, you have to know them, and if you write for
performers who play old music, you can have some confidence that they
do.
>I¹ve ne
David W. Fenton:
You seem to me to be someone who admires precision of language and
integrity of usage. "Bandstration" may be used (it seems very
narrowly used), but that doesn't make it good. People do all sorts of
things in daily usage that are basically wrong or confusing.
When I was very young
On 26 Aug 2004 at 11:47, Andrew Stiller wrote:
> On Aug 25, 2004, at 3:21 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
>
> >> The term "bandstration" has been in widespread use for over 40
> >> years.
> >
> > And you're advocating the use of such a monstrosity?
>
> It's not up to me to advocate. I'm not in charge
indeed, something is lost in castration...
klaas.
Op 26-aug-04 om 17:49 heeft Andrew Stiller het volgende geschreven:
On Aug 25, 2004, at 3:31 PM, Carlberg Jones wrote:
At 3:21 PM -0400 8/25/04, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 25 Aug 2004 at 11:41, Andrew Stiller wrote:
What about piano to concert band?
On Aug 25, 2004, at 5:34 PM, James Bailey wrote:
Words have meanings, but if, as you say (and I agree)
the English meaning doesn't match the Italian meaning, what is the
English
meaning? That's the whole point, as far as I'm concerned. We have all
the
musical terms that we've changed the meaning
On Aug 25, 2004, at 3:42 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
"Bandstration"?
?
Someone please tell me WHAT the classical music world has against the
word "arrangement." What's wrong with saying "Arranged for band"?
"Arranged for string quartet"? "Arranged for wind octet"?
- Darcy
The word bandstrati
On Aug 25, 2004, at 3:31 PM, Carlberg Jones wrote:
At 3:21 PM -0400 8/25/04, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 25 Aug 2004 at 11:41, Andrew Stiller wrote:
What about piano to concert band? What would you call that (other
than the generic "arrangement"?
--
The term "bandstration" has been in widespread use
On Aug 25, 2004, at 3:21 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
The term "bandstration" has been in widespread use for over 40 years.
And you're advocating the use of such a monstrosity?
It's not up to me to advocate. I'm not in charge of the English
language.
Andrew Stiller
Kallisti Music Press
http://home.
On Aug 26, 2004, at 5:40 AM, dhbailey wrote:
Googling "orchestration" turned up 385,000 hits!
And most of those, I notice, are in reference to the term as used by
business management types, meaning to organise and put into action,
like an allegory to the musical definition.
Christopher
Richard Yates wrote:
The term "bandstration" has been in widespread use for over 40 years.
And you're advocating the use of such a monstrosity?
I've never heard it, myself, and think it is ridiculous.
--
David W. Fenton
Googling "bandstration" (a common method of judging frequency of usage that
is
On Aug 25, 2004, at 10:40 PM, James Bailey wrote:
Words are actually fun for me, and knowing the etymology of a word is
interesting to me. I like to know where the words in my language come
from.
I've learned that while I'm not alone in this, I am something of an
anomaly.
And don't get me wrong
On 25.08.2004 22:09 Uhr, "Mark D Lew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Aug 25, 2004, at 2:34 PM, James Bailey wrote:
>
>> But this is the point. Words have meanings, but if, as you say (and I
>> agree)
>> the English meaning doesn't match the Italian meaning, what is the
>> English
>> meaning?
On Aug 25, 2004, at 2:34 PM, James Bailey wrote:
But this is the point. Words have meanings, but if, as you say (and I
agree)
the English meaning doesn't match the Italian meaning, what is the
English
meaning? That's the whole point, as far as I'm concerned. We have all
the
musical terms that we
Googling "bandstration" (a common method of judging frequency of usage
that is used in alt.english.usage) turns up only 18 hits. This is a
remarkably low total for a 40 year old term. (for comparison "David W.
Fenton" turns up 4,950)
' "David W. Fenton" -finale' reduces that by 3/4. Clearly hi
On 25 Aug 2004 at 16:55, Richard Yates wrote:
> > > The term "bandstration" has been in widespread use for over 40
> > > years.
> > And you're advocating the use of such a monstrosity?
> > I've never heard it, myself, and think it is ridiculous.
> > --
> > David W. Fenton
>
> Googling "bandstrat
> > The term "bandstration" has been in widespread use for over 40 years.
> And you're advocating the use of such a monstrosity?
> I've never heard it, myself, and think it is ridiculous.
> --
> David W. Fenton
Googling "bandstration" (a common method of judging frequency of usage that
is used in
On 25.08.2004 14:14 Uhr, "Mark D Lew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Walking" isn't a very good translation of "andante". The closest
> English equivalent would be "going", and in the musical context it's
> more like "moving". Perhaps you are getting confused with Spanish,
> where "andar" is a
Ouch.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Carlberg Jones
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 2:32 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Finale] Arrangement, Orchestration or Transcription?
At 3:21 PM -0400 8/25/04, David W. Fenton wrote:
>
On Aug 25, 2004, at 1:03 PM, James Bailey wrote:
I don't know, I've always simply seen "transcription". String quartet
transcription, transcribed for piano solo. I don't think that there's
anything against it, just that transcribed is older, and classical
music
tends to prefer older terms.
I think
On Aug 25, 2004, at 12:42 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
Someone please tell me WHAT the classical music world has against the
word "arrangement." What's wrong with saying "Arranged for band"?
"Arranged for string quartet"? "Arranged for wind octet"?
The classical music world has nothing against
On Aug 25, 2004, at 3:42 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
"Bandstration"?
?
Someone please tell me WHAT the classical music world has against the
word "arrangement." What's wrong with saying "Arranged for band"?
"Arranged for string quartet"? "Arranged for wind octet"?
Well, it's kind of what thi
On Aug 25, 2004, at 3:31 PM, Carlberg Jones wrote:
At 3:21 PM -0400 8/25/04, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 25 Aug 2004 at 11:41, Andrew Stiller wrote:
What about piano to concert band? What would you call that (other
than the generic "arrangement"?
--
The term "bandstration" has been in widespread use
Title: Re: [Finale] Arrangement, Orchestration or Transcription?
I don't know, I've always simply seen "transcription". String quartet transcription, transcribed for piano solo. I don't think that there's anything against it, just that transcribed is older, and c
Carlberg Jones wrote:
At 3:21 PM -0400 8/25/04, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 25 Aug 2004 at 11:41, Andrew Stiller wrote:
What about piano to concert band? What would you call that (other
than the generic "arrangement"?
--
The term "bandstration" has been in widespread use for over 40 years.
What woul
"Bandstration"?
?
Someone please tell me WHAT the classical music world has against the
word "arrangement." What's wrong with saying "Arranged for band"?
"Arranged for string quartet"? "Arranged for wind octet"?
- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY
David W. Fenton wrote:
On 25 Aug 2004 at 11:41, Andrew Stiller wrote:
What about piano to concert band? What would you call that (other
than the generic "arrangement"?
--
David W. Fenton
The term "bandstration" has been in widespread use for over 40 years.
And you're advocating the u
At 3:21 PM -0400 8/25/04, David W. Fenton wrote:
>On 25 Aug 2004 at 11:41, Andrew Stiller wrote:
>> >What about piano to concert band? What would you call that (other
>> >than the generic "arrangement"?
>> >
>> >--
>> The term "bandstration" has been in widespread use for over 40 years.
What woul
On 25 Aug 2004 at 11:41, Andrew Stiller wrote:
> >What about piano to concert band? What would you call that (other
> >than the generic "arrangement"?
> >
> >--
> David W. Fenton
>
> The term "bandstration" has been in widespread use for over 40 years.
And you're advocating the use of such a mon
What about piano to concert band? What would you call that (other
than the generic "arrangement"?
--
David W. Fenton
The term "bandstration" has been in widespread use for over 40 years.
--
Andrew Stiller
Kallisti Music Press
http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/
___
Would you prefer "This piano sonata was instrumentated for string
quartet?"
Not at all. "Arranged" will do, as will "transcribed" or even "scored."
Andrew Stiller
Kallisti Music Press
http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/
___
Finale mailing list
[EMAIL P
On Aug 24, 2004, at 11:22 AM, Brad Beyenhof wrote:
Well, what precisely constitutes an orchestra? I
Loosely, any ensemble of more than 10 instruments, the majority being
members of the violin family.
More strictly, any such ensemble in which each of the bowed-string
parts is rendered by two or
On 24 Aug 2004 at 11:03, Andrew Stiller wrote:
> On Aug 23, 2004, at 6:57 PM, Christopher Smith wrote:
>
> > On Aug 23, 2004, at 6:17 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
> >
> >> On 23 Aug 2004 at 11:35, Mark D Lew wrote:
> >>
> >>> The definitions that Andrew Stiller gave sound exactly right to
> >>> me.
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Mark D Lew
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>Just more evidence that the difference between the various types of
>work is a continuum and you can always find a gray area at the margin.
Lord Kelvin wrote (something like), "Science starts when measurement
starts". Langua
Brad Beyenhof wrote:
Now I've used the word "orchestration" so much it's beginning to look
like a made-up word... :)
ALL words are made up. Originally.
--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
Finale mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.shsu.edu/
On Aug 24, 2004, at 11:03 AM, Andrew Stiller wrote:
On Aug 23, 2004, at 6:57 PM, Christopher Smith wrote:
On Aug 23, 2004, at 6:17 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 23 Aug 2004 at 11:35, Mark D Lew wrote:
The definitions that Andrew Stiller gave sound exactly right to me.
My only quibble is with the id
On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 11:03:13 -0400, Andrew Stiller
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> So you guys wd. have no problem with, "this piano sonata was later
> orchestrated for string quartet"? To me that makes as much sense as
> "Admission is free, so pay at the door; pull up a chair and sit on the
> flo
I always thought of orchestration as simply the process of writing music for
instruments; whereas transcription would be used in any case where the
destination ensemble is not the same as the original. So Bach's versions of
Vivaldi's concerto's works as a transcription as well as transcribing a
pi
On Aug 23, 2004, at 6:57 PM, Christopher Smith wrote:
On Aug 23, 2004, at 6:17 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 23 Aug 2004 at 11:35, Mark D Lew wrote:
The definitions that Andrew Stiller gave sound exactly right to me.
My only quibble is with the idea that "orchestration" applies only to
orchestras.
On Aug 23, 2004, at 6:17 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 23 Aug 2004 at 11:35, Mark D Lew wrote:
The definitions that Andrew Stiller gave sound exactly right to me.
My only quibble is with the idea that "orchestration" applies only to
orchestras. I thought it was now pretty common to use the term
met
Responding to the following bit of my whimsy,
I don't think there are firm rules to distinguish between these terms.
In my own usage, the use of the words "transposition",
"transcription", "adaptation", and "arrangement" is determined by the
amount of change to the original material. A transpo
On 23 Aug 2004 at 11:35, Mark D Lew wrote:
> The definitions that Andrew Stiller gave sound exactly right to me.
My only quibble is with the idea that "orchestration" applies only to
orchestras. I thought it was now pretty common to use the term
metaphorically as replacement for the klunky "ins
On Aug 23, 2004, at 1:25 PM, Noel Stoutenburg wrote:
I don't think there are firm rules to distinguish between these terms.
In my own usage, the use of the words "transposition",
"transcription", "adaptation", and "arrangement" is determined by the
amount of change to the original material. A
When Dennis Bathory-Kitsz writes:
Because ELP, Thelonius Monk, Nick Didkovsky, George Lewis, Electric Prunes,
Andrew Lloyd Weber all make "art music". I'm not sure if any among them
would call it "classical". They might not call it "nonpop" either, though
Didkovsky and Lewis are there for me. :)
Giovanni Andreani wrote:
It's not easy as it seems to be.
I don't think there are firm rules to distinguish between these terms.
In my own usage, the use of the words "transposition", "transcription",
"adaptation", and "arrangement" is determined by the amount of change to
the original material
At 11:51 AM 8/23/04 -0700, Brad Beyenhof wrote:
>Aha! Dennis BK's "nonpop" strikes again!
Boom!
>In college, our Music History prof instructed us to capitalize it if
>we meant the specific period and keep it lower-case for the entire
>spectrum. I prefer the term "art music," but I can appreciate
At 02:52 PM 8/23/04 -0400, dhbailey wrote:
>Just out of curiosity, how would you term these three things:
>1) setting The Lady Is A Tramp for big-band, to last 5 minutes;
>2) getting a piano part from a client and setting it for full orchestra
>without changing the length of the work or the roadma
On Aug 23, 2004, at 2:52 PM, dhbailey wrote:
Just out of curiosity, how would you term these three things:
1) setting The Lady Is A Tramp for big-band, to last 5 minutes;
That depends on what a "setting" is! In this case, it looks like an
arrangement to me.
2) getting a piano part from a client
On Aug 23, 2004, at 11:15 AM, Christopher Smith wrote:
Orchestration
– You are assigning the composer’s notes to instruments without changing anything, except you can change and add octaves where necessary. You cannot leave out any notes unless you are eliminating an octave double, and that only
On Aug 23, 2004, at 11:52 AM, dhbailey wrote:
I've always seen the term "arranged by" used in conjunction with works
which are definitely different in road-map from the original. Maybe
it's just my narrow sphere of experience.
In the classical world, we don't often change the road-map at all. M
Mark D Lew wrote:
On Aug 23, 2004, at 5:08 AM, dhbailey wrote:
I would call what you are asking about a transcription.
Interesting. I would have called it an arrangement.
I've always thought of the three in this manner:
Arrangement: taking a given work and changing it's basic road-map as
well as
On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 11:35:33 -0700, Mark D Lew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> PS. In case it's not obvious, I mean "classical" in the broader sense
> -- not in the narrow sense that excludes baroque, romantic,
> post-modern, etc.
Aha! Dennis BK's "nonpop" strikes again!
In college, our Music Hist
On Aug 23, 2004, at 5:08 AM, dhbailey wrote:
I would call what you are asking about a transcription.
Interesting. I would have called it an arrangement.
I've always thought of the three in this manner:
Arrangement: taking a given work and changing it's basic road-map as
well as possibly changing
Transcription: A written composition that contains some deviation from
the original written composition. Usually a transcription is a copy of
the composition into a different key or arranged for different
instrumentation.
I know some people use the word this way, but in classical circles
it's jus
On Aug 23, 2004, at 5:50 AM, Giovanni Andreani wrote:
It's not easy as it seems to be. I'll start with three definitions from
the Virginia Tech Multimedia Music Dictionary:
Arrangement: The selection and adaptation of a composition or parts of a
composition to instruments for which it was not o
I would call what you are asking about a transcription.
I've always thought of the three in this manner:
Arrangement: taking a given work and changing it's basic road-map as
well as possibly changing the orchestration. Such as taking the basic
32-bar song format of The Lady Is A Tramp and turnin
It's not easy as it seems to be. I'll start with three definitions from
the Virginia Tech Multimedia Music Dictionary:
Arrangement: The selection and adaptation of a composition or parts of a
composition to instruments for which it was not originally designed or
for some other use for which it wa
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