Re: [313] Older people's views on detriot?

2000-06-26 Thread dobyrush

At 6:18 PM -0400 6/26/00, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I've watched some of the best DJs that have ever come to midwest and
find most of them tend to be in their mid to late thirties. I think it's
great that they still enjoy the scene and are willing to share their extreme
talents with us young folk.


Get near 30 and you'll discover that, for as many ways as it's 
different from being 20-ish, it's also not.


..Unless you convince yourself otherwise ahead of time.


Re: [313] Older people's views on detriot?

2000-06-26 Thread AngstAngel
 I've watched some of the best DJs that have ever come to midwest and 
find most of them tend to be in their mid to late thirties. I think it's 
great that they still enjoy the scene and are willing to share their extreme 
talents with us young folk. At first I was surprised to find a Dj in his 
thirties at all (Yes, I'm young and naive :)... It's great to keep this 
passing down instead of us younger ones thinking we're creating it as a 
follow up to Generation X... because to be honest, most people that rave at 
or under the age of 20 think that they're part of a whole big new movement 
and they're making it. Maybe it's just because I enjoy a lot of the older 
music myself and have a lot of older friends that I'm not naive enough to 
believe this. None the less. You older ones almost sound ashamned admitting 
to being 'old' and liking this all still and I say, More Power to Yah... Rave 
on :)

+|~Christine~|+


> Subj:  Re: [313] Older people's views on detriot?
>  Date:6/26/00 4:11:15 PM US Eastern Standard Time
>  From:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthew L. Thompson)
>  To:  313@hyperreal.org
>  
>  Intersting perspective there, Pat. :)  I'm 31 and have followed the techno
>  scene loosely for 10 years or so now... there are plenty of people in this
>  group that are older than I and most of them have been a part of the techno
>  genre for quite a bit longer than that.  Also consider the fact that the
>  "founders" of Techno (Atkins, Saunderson, and May - The Belleville Three)
>  are all going to be pushing into their 40's over the next 2 or 3 years, so
>  you aren't quite as "old" as you might lead yourself to believe. :)
>  
>  Matt
>  E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Homepage: http://magicmattkelly.tripod.com
>  


RE: [313] Fwd: THAT ECCIE STUFF (Melb, Aust)

2000-06-26 Thread FC3 Richards
AHHH NOO...RESPECTED AMERICAN DJ CHRISTOPHER LAWERENCE...
jeff

 

"THOU SHALT REMEMBER THE FUNK AND KEEP IT HOLY"
-George Clinton

> -Original Message-
> From: Nathan Pooley [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, June 26, 2000 11:00 AM
> To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject:  [313] Fwd: THAT ECCIE STUFF (Melb, Aust)
> VFM... A FIERCE NIGHT OF TECHNO, Saturday July 8 @ Billboard 170
> Russel St Melb. Quality is what these promoters are trying to bring back 
> from the old world of techno. Bringing back a sence of community and 
> lightness of spirit.! Dancers, drummers, performers, full colour laser, 
> original live animaitions by Harshmellow, plus more!! Featuring: DJ ROYAL 
> (Sydney) ONE SHOW ONLY!! (He has played along side highly respected 
> internationals such as Claude Young, Christopher Lawrence, Trevor 
> Rockcliffe, and Luke Slater.), 


Re: [313] Older people's views on detriot?

2000-06-26 Thread Matthew L. Thompson
Intersting perspective there, Pat. :)  I'm 31 and have followed the techno
scene loosely for 10 years or so now... there are plenty of people in this
group that are older than I and most of them have been a part of the techno
genre for quite a bit longer than that.  Also consider the fact that the
"founders" of Techno (Atkins, Saunderson, and May - The Belleville Three)
are all going to be pushing into their 40's over the next 2 or 3 years, so
you aren't quite as "old" as you might lead yourself to believe. :)

Matt
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage: http://magicmattkelly.tripod.com


> My name is Pat. Iv'e been lurking here for a while now. I am a single mom
> w. 2 kids & a house & a small business so I barely have time to read all
my
> e-mail never mind respond to everything I'm interested in...
>
> Well, I'm an "older people" (46... I qualify, right?) & I must say, I
would
> not miss this musical FEAST for anything! I felt like I waited my whole
> life for the phenomenon of "raves" too. I LOVE to dance & I love good
music
> & I never want it to stop! I've hunted down good books, good music & just
> generally good stuff my whole life.




Re: [313] Older people's views on detriot?

2000-06-26 Thread teth
> From my parents just simply being around me they've learned alot about the
> music. My dad is in his 50's and completely knows who Kenny Larkin and
> Richie Hawtin are.

Ha! Reminds me of the first time my Dad heard drum & bass a couple of years
ago. It was some funky-assed Ninja Tunes cut and he goes "This is great!
Check out that solo work..." and I kinda had to go "Well, I don't think this
guy's ever actually sat behind a kit" and shatter the old man's illusions by
explaining that most of this stuff's made on computers these days.

Don't think he quite gets it to this day.
Gotta laugh though.

Andy



Older people's views on detriot?

2000-06-26 Thread Younger Graphics
My name is Pat. Iv'e been lurking here for a while now. I am a single mom
w. 2 kids & a house & a small business so I barely have time to read all my
e-mail never mind respond to everything I'm interested in...

Well, I'm an "older people" (46... I qualify, right?) & I must say, I would
not miss this musical FEAST for anything! I felt like I waited my whole
life for the phenomenon of "raves" too. I LOVE to dance & I love good music
& I never want it to stop! I've hunted down good books, good music & just
generally good stuff my whole life. 

My kids (16 & 19) don't go to raves or really like techno/electronic the
way I do. I was always into the music more for the sake of the music rather
than to represent my generation or anything else about me when I was young.
I was actually a bit shocked when I realized that most of my friends were
not listening to the music the same way that I was.

I think that the world of music has changed SO much since I was a kid. I am
pleased to see power slip away from the big corps', as long as the artists
survive (& hopefully thrive).

I just want to say that I am stunned by the quality & variety & abundance
of really good music these days, most of that in the techno vein, it seems.
It strikes me as a very pure "art" medium. Like other forms of design I
believe it very much respects, responds, interacts, honours & exploits our
biological makeup or "hardwiring" so I think that although it may be
commonly thought of by some as mechanical & removed from the "natural"
human experience I think it is very much the opposite of that in various
ways. I think this is kind of related to the turn-of-the century painters
who were studying the biology of colour & expressionist interest in
psychology or psychiatry, etc.. Wasn't there a thread recently about the
relationship of art with techno? What about "Tomato" & Underworld? 

I do have a bit of trouble finding other people my age who are as
interested in this kind of music, so it looks like that's a bit rare. I
really do not believe that it is just "music for youth" as some people from
my generation seem to think. It is awesome music! & awesome music is for
everyone! There are no lyrics about "puppy luv" or first dates. (but that's
what a lot of folks my age are still listening to!???) It's not "immature"
or age-limited music just because younger people listen to it! I listen to
"everything" from industrial to dub & i always have. Due to the large
presence of techno music in my life I have a predominance of younger
friends & aquaintances, but I wouldn't mind meeting more older techno
friends. :) so where are they!!!?

Pat


>My Mom (over 50 but fighting) went and loved it while I was stuck in SF
>la bouche and other cheese dance pop, but loves house I have played,
>although she liked Rolando's Aztec Mystic mix the best.  She also said she
>thought mdma sounded pretty neat after the reading the Time article a few
>weeks back.  Parents just aren't the same as they used to be methinks.  

>>On Sat, 24 Jun 2000 16:43:34 PDT, Diana Potts wrote:


  
>>  
>>  On the DEMF tip there were tons of "older" people getting down and loving

>>  the music. Lots of parents of performers totally getting into the beats
and 
>>  vibe. It was so great to see...and lets not forget all the little kids
too 
>>  shakin their little legs.
>>  




Younger Graphics


Offices: 250 749 6150
 250 246 9992

Fax: 250 749 6363
 
Cell:250 246 6425
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


www.frequencydetroit.com site launch tonight -

2000-06-26 Thread zander waldman
frequency detroit
26.6.00

9:00 pm TONIGHT FREQUENCY DETROIT GOES ON-LINE.

This month we feature many new full-length house and drum&bass mp3 mixes and 
artist information.

FEATURED ARTIST-
Mike Huckaby-Detroit
exclusive 70 minute mp3

new music and information from many other artists have also been posted.

thank you,
frequency detroit
log on & enjoy
http://www.frequencydetroit.com


Re: [313] Santonio Echols

2000-06-26 Thread phred
And don't forget "Visions of Music" on Serious Grooves, my favorite
Santonio track and the one most responsible for dragging me into the
Detroit music orbit.

phred


Re: [313] neat moog fact

2000-06-26 Thread Dave Walker
Diana Potts wrote:

> . You can see the original Moog
> at the Ford Museum.

Diana -- is this at the Henry Ford museum in Dearborn?

[if so, COOL!]

-d.w.




John Beltran contact info?

2000-06-26 Thread Matt Corwine
Anyone have an email/fax/phone number for John Beltran?  Pls. reply privately.

ob313: Recloose's "Can't Take It" knocked my ass flat, as did the new Agent
X. I'll have some of what they're having down at PE HQ.


Re: [313] the appeals of repetition...

2000-06-26 Thread Seth electricpress
you might want to tie in with the previous thread of women and techno... the 
male brain is better configured for repetetive or minimal music as a hang 
over from hunting (when it was necessary to concentrate on one thing and not 
be distracted), the female brain, which processes sound in a different area, 
is used to recieving additional input.


also, it may be worth looking at the effect of seratonin. The action of 
ecstacy, stopping seratonin breakdown, has been shown to cause mice to 
repeat movements (if you can find the original paper it's unintentionally 
hilarious, particularly the mouse on speed, I think it was in the "Animal 
Behaviour" journal). In addition, fluoxetine (Prozac) is used to alleviate 
depression and can cause people to become far more outgoing, this acts on 
seratonin production.
If you have access, a quick search on www.bids.ac.uk should bring up a good 
many papers in the effect of seratonin.


introvert and extrovert people will have different seratonin levels, if the 
link between this and repetition can be made, a good argument could be put 
forward that this governed people's reactions to repetitive music.


I'd be interested to hear how it goes...

Seth

The Electric Press

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Re: [313] Older people's views on detriot?

2000-06-26 Thread R Vincent
My  50 year old mother has seemed to develop a great liking for minimal
detroit techno. She thinks it is "very tribal" and enjoys "the emphasis on
each specific sound."She especially likes Claude Young, but doesnt really
care too much for Richie Hawtin. She still needs a little bit of schooling
though, cuz jungle is still her "favorite" =P
respect,
r

=
"For those who know, stay low, stay strong, stay ready,stay underground. For 
those who don't,learn. For those who'stole the soul',live in fear as the 
spirits will track you into your next life and beyond. Nothing good will come 
to you."

 - Mad Mike Banks
UR

__
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Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/


Mills in Ljubljana pictures (was New Mills, ...)

2000-06-26 Thread Jernej Marusic
Cyclone Wehner wrote:

> These are just the previously unreleased tracks.
>
> >MILLS, JEFF: The Art of Connecting CD (NEXTERA). New compilation of Jeff
> >Mills material, only released in the Czech Republic and Australia
>
> I thought Sweden was mentioned too? Also Poland?? Don't quote me on that.

It's definitely not Czech Republic only, because I've bought it here in Slovenia
2 week ago.

btw: Mills was playing here in Ljubljana on saturday as part of his Art Of
Connecting tour. He seemed to be in a really good mood and enjoying himself,
smiling and nodding his had while listening to other DJs before and after his
set. He was great. started off with some JVC record than dropped the Knights of
Jaguar and people went mad. On couple of occasions we he had some great mix of
trax going he stopped.
I have some pictures from this party on my page:
http://megaklik.si/sol/photo/


Jernej

--
http://megaklik.si/sol/
the sound of ljubljana



Re: [313] +8072

2000-06-26 Thread Todd Smith
This is not a new release its a reissue with a new look
todd

Jim Grindle wrote:

> I like the new Speedy J record on NovaMute ( A Shocking Hobby) it is dark,
> haunting, beautiful, and abrasive but rather off timed and abstract ?jungle?
> I had no idea what to expect from the new +8 release
>  well after two weeks in the mix I must say it is slamming !!
> 3 hard percussive tracks that deconstruct and rebuild like "orange" did
> very unique in his use of sounds
> I really hope that @ the Sept re-launch plus 8 party W/ Rich & John that
> Jochem will be one of the "special guests" hint hint!!!
> Grindle Out!
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Fwd: THAT ECCIE STUFF (Melb, Aust)

2000-06-26 Thread Nathan Pooley

Hello

How r u?

Hope you are keeping warm and staying well, don't forget to keep
stocked up
with Vitamin C and ecccinatia, sorry can't spell, you know that
eccie stuff.
Anyhow here is more exciting informative ramble about a mad party
that you
are invited to attend.

***VFM***

VFM... A FIERCE NIGHT OF TECHNO, Saturday July 8 @ Billboard 170
Russel St Melb. Quality is what these promoters are trying to bring back 
from the old world of techno. Bringing back a sence of community and 
lightness of spirit.! Dancers, drummers, performers, full colour laser, 
original live animaitions by Harshmellow, plus more!! Featuring: DJ ROYAL 
(Sydney) ONE SHOW ONLY!! (He has played along side highly respected 
internationals such as Claude Young, Christopher Lawrence, Trevor 
Rockcliffe, and Luke Slater.), PB909 100% Live, DJ’s: STEVE ROBBINS (SPR 
Mint Recordings), RUDEBOY, RSK and IDES. DRESS WILD because this is the 
renewel of teckno, and the party in cold July thats going to be HOT and NOT 
TO BE MISSED!!! Check fliers for further details...


Come party

Nathan Pooley



Micro Dynamic Music Agency PTY LTD (MDMAgency)
Mob: 0417 549 665
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Post: PO Box 1331 Windsor Vic 3181 Australia


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Re: [313] New Techno Names/The Advent

2000-06-26 Thread TechnoSnob
Hope this helps:

www.fumiyatanaka.com
http://megaklik.si/sol/index.html








On Tue, 27 Jun 2000, Cyclone Wehner wrote:

> I am desperately looking for basic biog info on the following new school
> techno DJ/producers:
> 
> - Gaetek
> - Ade Fenton
> - Chris McCormack
> - Umek
> - Samuel Sessions
> - Fumuya Tanaka (sp?)
> 
> 
> 
> Any tips?
> 
> Also someone mentioned that there was a new Advent LP a while ago entitled
> Past Forward. Was this actually an LP or EP as I have only seen a double 12"
> pack called that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 



+8072

2000-06-26 Thread Jim Grindle
I like the new Speedy J record on NovaMute ( A Shocking Hobby) it is dark,
haunting, beautiful, and abrasive but rather off timed and abstract ?jungle?
I had no idea what to expect from the new +8 release 
 well after two weeks in the mix I must say it is slamming !!
3 hard percussive tracks that deconstruct and rebuild like "orange" did 
very unique in his use of sounds
I really hope that @ the Sept re-launch plus 8 party W/ Rich & John that
Jochem will be one of the "special guests" hint hint!!!
Grindle Out!



Re: [313] Classic Kraftwerk Find-ULTRAVOX

2000-06-26 Thread Eric Iverson
> I'm sure you've already checked "Herr X" (Mister X) by Ultravox. "Alleys of 
> your mind" was heavily based on that record. (I wouldn't call it a copy, but 
> it comes close). 

likewise Mr.X was heavily based on Kraftwerk's "Hall of mirrors".

the thread has now come full circle :)


--eric


Detroit comps (revised)

2000-06-26 Thread Gwendal Cobert
Following my post from last week, I have received numerous emails of things to 
add to my list, and have compiled all these, categorized and added comments 
etc, I am not too sure everything is perfectly right, but anyway...
I have also found very good discographies in Techno Rebels (Dan Sicko) and 
Energy Flash (Simon Reynolds)
Thanks to all those who answered !

Gwendal


***Compilations more or less representing the whole spectrum***
- V/A - Detroit: Beyond The Third Wave
- V/A - Detroit: The Deeper Shade of Techno I+II
- V/A - True People from Detroit (Reactivate) :
= a great two-CD comp, featuring classic tracks, really representative of the 
whole scene.
- V/A - Origins of a Sound (Submerge)
- V/A - Depth Charge 1-5 (Submerge)
- V/A - Strangely Arranged (Communique Records)
- V/A - Virtual sex (Buzz)
- V/A - Intergalactic Beats (Planet E)
- V/A - Techno 1 & 2 (network)
- V/A - Retro Techno emotion (network)
- V/A - Panic in Detroit (Buzz)
- V/A - Made in Detroit (KMS)
- V/A - Generator World Sonik Domination vols 1-2
- V/A - Elements of and experiments with sound (Planet E)

***Label comps***
- V/A - Geology (Planet E)
- V/A - Interstellar Fugitives (Underground Resistance)
= seems to represent about all the artists on this label, with people like 
Suburban Knight and Drexciya
- V/A - Direct Beat (430 West)
- V/A - Blueprints for Modern Techno (Plus8)
- V/A - From our minds to yours (Plus8)

***The "Holy Trinity" comps***
- Model 500 - Classics (R&S)
= the earliest works of Juan Atkins solo (since it seems there were 3 people 
involved in Cybotron), I think it better stands the test of time than the 
Cybotron stuff, the version of No UFOs included here is a remix
- Derrick May - Innovator 2CD (Transmat)
= there are two tracks more on the european version ? anyway, it seems to have 
almost all Derrick May has released, including several versions of Strings of 
Life
- Kevin Saunderson - Faces and Phases 2CD (Planet E)
= spans his whole career (for now), representing the more "commercial" part of 
techno, but no "big fun" ?

***Artist comps***
- John Beltran - Earth & Nightfall (R&S)
- Underground Resistance - Revolution For Change (Network)
- The Martian - LBK-6251876 (Red Planet)
- Drexciya - The Quest (Submerge)
- Moodymann - A Silent Introduction (Planet E)
- Theo Parrish - Sound Signature (Sound Signature)
- Jeff Mills : Purpose Maker
- Common Factor : Dreams from Elsewhere
- Octave One comps
- Jason Hodges comp

***Albums***
- Carl Craig - Landcruising (Blanco Y Negro)
= not a comp but an album, with long instrumental pieces, closer to straight 
techno than house, and my favorite Craig work to date, probably because the 
tracks seem so evocative of travel
- X-101 - Sonic Destroyer (Tresor)

***Mix CDs***
- Jeff Mills : Live from Liquid Room
- DJ Rolando - Aztec Mix (Underground Resistance)
- Derrick May : Mix-Up (Studio K7!)
- Stacey Pullen : DJ Kicks (Studio K7!)
... and more generally, tons of mix CDs on Studio K7!, in their Mix-up, DJ 
Kicks and X-Mix series, as well as their Electro Boogie series - BTW, is Dave 
Clarke Detroit ? and what about the artists featured on his Electro Boogie mix ?



Re: [313] Santonio Echols

2000-06-26 Thread Chris Zimmerman

Good luck hunting.



Rhythim is Rhythim Strings of Life Networkretro 1999

Santonio Kisses Tresor House 1995



Santonio Deep Cover Tresor House 1995


The Santonio Project Clouds of Thunder Cyren America 1992



DJ Tone Insanity KMS UK 1992



Tronik House Straight Outta Hell Network 1992



Low Key Rainforest Serious Grooves 1992



Reese & Santonio Structure FFRR 1990



Reese & Santonio Just Want Another Chance House Classics 1989



Reese Rock To The Beat Target 1989



Reese & Santonio Bounce your Body to the Box KMS 1988



Reese & Santonio The Sound (Remix) KMS 1988



Reese & Santonio Truth of Self Evidence KMS 1988



Reese & Santonio, The Sound Kool Kat 1988



Reese & Santonio The Sound KMS




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Re: [313] Older people's views on detriot?-demf

2000-06-26 Thread hans kaufmann

My Mom (over 50 but fighting) went and loved it while I was stuck in SF
wishing I was there.  She goes out to the old people clubs where they play
la bouche and other cheese dance pop, but loves house I have played,
although she liked Rolando's Aztec Mystic mix the best.  She also said she
thought mdma sounded pretty neat after the reading the Time article a few
weeks back.  Parents just aren't the same as they used to be methinks.  

On Sat, 24 Jun 2000 16:43:34 PDT, Diana Potts wrote:

>  
>  
>  On the DEMF tip there were tons of "older" people getting down and loving

>  the music. Lots of parents of performers totally getting into the beats
and 
>  vibe. It was so great to see...and lets not forget all the little kids
too 
>  shakin their little legs.
>  
>  
>  
>  d
>  
>  Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
>  
>  
>  -
>  To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>





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RE: [313] New Techno Names/The Advent

2000-06-26 Thread FC3 Richards
Sam Sessions...I don't like him.  tribal techno songs that are good for oh,
about 1 1/2 minutes and then it is just boring from there.  there are alot
of people out there spinning his stuff like it is the greatest stuff out
there, though.
jeff

 

"THOU SHALT REMEMBER THE FUNK AND KEEP IT HOLY"
-George Clinton

> -Original Message-
> From: Cyclone Wehner [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, June 26, 2000 10:28 AM
> To:   313 Detroit
> Subject:  [313] New Techno Names/The Advent
> 
> I am desperately looking for basic biog info on the following new school
> techno DJ/producers:
> 
> - Gaetek
> - Ade Fenton
> - Chris McCormack
> - Umek
> - Samuel Sessions
> - Fumuya Tanaka (sp?)
> 
> 
> 
> Any tips?
> 
> Also someone mentioned that there was a new Advent LP a while ago entitled
> Past Forward. Was this actually an LP or EP as I have only seen a double
> 12"
> pack called that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 


RE: [313] Detroit comps

2000-06-26 Thread Gwendal Cobert
I know the answer is probably no, but has the Chameleon below anything to do
with the Chameleon the two guys from Global Communication used to release
Jungle stuff ?
Gwendal

> -Original Message-
> From: FRED MCMURRY [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 7:56 PM
> To: 313@hyperreal.org
> Subject: Re: [313] Detroit comps
>
>
> Underground Resistance:Interstellar Fugitives (UR045) from 1998
> feat.
> The Suburban Knight "Maroon"
> UR "Nannytown"
> Gerald Mitchell "Soulsaver"
> The Aztec Mystic "Mi Raza"
> Perception "Mirage"
> Chaos "Afrogermanic"
> Drexciya "Aquatacizem"
> The Infiltrator "Thought 1"
> Mad Mike "Moor Horseman on Bolarus 5"
> Chameleon "Thought 2"
> Andre Holland "Unabomber"
> UR "Negative Evolution"
>
> excellent compilation from the UR crew.
> __
> __
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
> http://www.hotmail.com
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Isolee "Rest"

2000-06-26 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sorry if I missed a post on this, but does anyone know if there's a US
release in the works on this?

How about a realaudio URL for it?
--
There4IM



New Techno Names/The Advent

2000-06-26 Thread Cyclone Wehner
I am desperately looking for basic biog info on the following new school
techno DJ/producers:

- Gaetek
- Ade Fenton
- Chris McCormack
- Umek
- Samuel Sessions
- Fumuya Tanaka (sp?)



Any tips?

Also someone mentioned that there was a new Advent LP a while ago entitled
Past Forward. Was this actually an LP or EP as I have only seen a double 12"
pack called that.





Re: [313] Santonio Echols

2000-06-26 Thread James Bucknell


i've got a santonio echols disk, can't remeber the label, two tracks, one is has
samples 'ask not what you can do for your country...' and the other is a slice
of very funky techno/house. it's late 80, early 90s.
i know the 'ask not what..' track  also appeared on one of the 'correct use of
techno' releases.
some of his stuff also appeared on the tresor house label in the mid 90s.
there are also one or two tracks on the 'detroit: true people' cd. one of them
is an absolute blinder.
james





FC3 Richards <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on 06/25/2000 10:00:35 PM

To:   "'313@hyperreal.org'" <313@hyperreal.org>
cc:(bcc: James Bucknell/Magazines/Hearst)
Subject:  [313] Santonio Echols




is there any work out there by Santonio Echols besides the tracks that he
did with Kevin Saunderson way back when???
jeff



"THOU SHALT REMEMBER THE FUNK AND KEEP IT HOLY"
  -George Clinton


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Re: [313] bent crayon mailout

2000-06-26 Thread Todd Smith
Please stop reposting this matter to the list its already been here.
todd

Jason wrote:

> just spotted this:
>
> VA: House Party 013: Carl Craig Presents Planet E Mix CD (NEXTERA).
> "Compiled and mixed live by Carl Craig and DJ Peter Anthony of two Technics
> turntables with a Pioneer DJM-500 DJ Mixer, November 1999 at Electron Labs,
> Detroit USA. Post-production by Carl Craig featuring the Korg KAOSS Pad at
> Electron Labs, Detroit. Featuring: Chaz Vincent- "Dream Zenith 2",
> Paperclip People- "Floor", Designer Music- "Stevie Knows", Alton Miller-
> "Exstasol", Common Factor- "North Nights", Recloose- "Soul Clap 2000",
> Paperclip People- "Steam", Gemini- "Crossing Mars", Common Factor- "Pisces
> Groove", Chaz Vincent- "Tom Cat", BFC- "Galaxy", Common Factor- "Will"."
> 13.99
>
> jason
>
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Re: [313] jeff mills mix cd

2000-06-26 Thread Cyclone Wehner
Actually, this isn't a mix-CD.

Cheers

Cyclone

>also on the bent crayon list:
>
>MILLS, JEFF: The Art of Connecting CD (NEXTERA). 


jeff mills mix cd

2000-06-26 Thread Jason
also on the bent crayon list:

MILLS, JEFF: The Art of Connecting CD (NEXTERA). New compilation of Jeff 
Mills material, only released in the Czech Republic and Australia -- will 
not be issued in any other countries. "Track titles: 'Deckard' 
(unreleased), 'Nepta' (taken from AX-015: The Other Day EP), 'Gamma Player' 
(taken from AX-012: Humana EP), 4 Art (unreleased), 'Pacific State Of Mind' 
(unreleased), 'Cobolt' (taken from AX-016 Very EP), 'The Bells' (taken from 
PM-002 Kat Moda EP), 'Java' (taken from PM-001 Java EP), 'UFO' 
(unreleased), 'Utopia' (taken from AX-008 Cycle 30 EP). All compositions 
produced, mixed, and edited by Jeff Mills for Axis Records. Recorded at the 
Spider Formation in Chicago. The Art of Connecting is dedicated to those 
who feel the need to express what they feel through the amazing art form of 
electronic music." 13.99


bent crayon mailout

2000-06-26 Thread Jason
just spotted this:

VA: House Party 013: Carl Craig Presents Planet E Mix CD (NEXTERA). 
"Compiled and mixed live by Carl Craig and DJ Peter Anthony of two Technics 
turntables with a Pioneer DJM-500 DJ Mixer, November 1999 at Electron Labs, 
Detroit USA. Post-production by Carl Craig featuring the Korg KAOSS Pad at 
Electron Labs, Detroit. Featuring: Chaz Vincent- "Dream Zenith 2", 
Paperclip People- "Floor", Designer Music- "Stevie Knows", Alton Miller- 
"Exstasol", Common Factor- "North Nights", Recloose- "Soul Clap 2000", 
Paperclip People- "Steam", Gemini- "Crossing Mars", Common Factor- "Pisces 
Groove", Chaz Vincent- "Tom Cat", BFC- "Galaxy", Common Factor- "Will"."
13.99

jason


Re: [313] Classic Kraftwerk Find/New Wave suggestions

2000-06-26 Thread James Bucknell


'the garden' by john fox.
he was originally with...ultravox, i think.





Frank Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on 06/24/2000 09:13:53 PM

To:   313@hyperreal.org
cc:   Mxyzptlk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (bcc: James Bucknell/Magazines/Hearst)
Subject:  Re: [313] Classic Kraftwerk Find/New Wave suggestions




"The Steps" by Visage is a classic, slow and  dark synth mood peace.

Frank


> Mxyzptlk wrote:
> >
> > Can you narrow the category a bit?
>
> Sure, I am looking for stuff along the lines of In a Lonely Place by New
> Order and Ghosts by Japan. I am looking for moody, slow records with
> deep synth sounds, something that would have been an outgrowth of Here
> Are The Young Men by Joy Division.



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nick craddock/darkest energy

2000-06-26 Thread martin clark

nick: send me an email would ya?
martin

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Fwd: flatplastic.com relaunch / version 7.0

2000-06-26 Thread martin clark





From: "Giles Dickerson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED],  
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Subject: flatplastic.com relaunch / version 7.0
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 10:26:27 -0400

h o u s e h e a d s /

[ as a pre-into note, I no longer belong to the 313 and techhouse lists
due to my busy work schedule so would someone who belongs to these lists
forward this message to the relevant mailing lists and other important
individuals i have missed here ]

flatplastic.com, as of last night has relaunched in a new format. the
focus of flatplastic will from henceforth be entirely on the weekly
show. due to tremendous demands for the cds, and difficulty managing
international currency exchanges, the weekly HOUSEMIX will now be
available in a streaming stereo REAL AUDIO format, as well as a
downloadable and streamable MP3 which you can then take with you  on the
road, as technology for this becomes more readily available I'm sure
this will be the preferred medium.

the show will now be one hour, mixed live by myself and guest dj's
weekly, and will as my show always has, featuring a diversity of the
vest house music from the past and present, covering everything from
banging techno-house, to deep soulful moody house, from minimal bleepy
german tracks to the organic sounds of the new york underground. You'll
hear music from Detroit, Chicago, New York, West Coast, East Coast,
Germany, Japan, Sweden, England, France and anywhere else good house
music is coming from.

most importantly as anyone who knows me knows, i play a healthy dose of
the rare, the deep, and the eclectic that are both hard to find and not
often played.

the format will be the mix and the tracklisting, and that's it, in one
simple page updated weekly. this way the show will be available
globally, and people who want to have a copy of the show can download
the MP3 if they so desire. so now, without further ado, I invite you to
visit the new flatplastic.com and experience the FLATPLASTIC HOUSEMIX,
just like it has been for four years running. spread the word.

best regards / giles dickerson / flatplastic.com




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RE: [313] Older people's views on detriot?

2000-06-26 Thread johno
Same story here.

My mom just turned 50 and over the years I have been playing so many cd's
(my turntables used to be in a seperate room above the garage) in the
morning (to get my engine going) that she became used to it and sometimes
she said: 'I really like this, what is it?'. Thanks to years of
enthousiastically talking about my idols and the parties I went to, my mom
knows a lot of artists by name and she's pretty well-informed (for a mom
that is...). I'm really lucky she let me go to all these parties even if it
was far away or abroad. Now I live together with my girlfriend in the city
of Ghent, but I'm still gratefull she never attempted to supress my musical
ideas. Thanks mom!!

John

-Original Message-
From: Diana Potts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2000 1:41 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: [313] Older people's views on detriot?



>From my parents just simply being around me they've learned alot about the 
music. My dad is in his 50's and completely knows who Kenny Larkin and 
Richie Hawtin are. My mom likes Theorem (dales's) stuff too. I had Terrence 
Parker's 'Ten',CD one, playing in my car the other day and my dad said 'can 
we listen to that on our next road trip?!' They like the housier stuff 
better, and like some of the minimal and downtempo stuff as well.

Though I must say, however, my mom has a small heart attack every time I 
come home with a big brown bag or records-but she thinks of it as just the 
thing "i collect" :)


i love my parents:)
diana

>From: "Ben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: "Ben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "313" <313@hyperreal.org>
>Subject: [313] Older people's views on detriot?
>Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 21:44:33 +0200
>
>Hi everyone hope you are keeping well!  I was just remembering a friends
>Granddad (God bless his soul) saying how the music blew his mind sometimes,
>but asked if it could be played lower! :-) (The guy was in his 70's).  Do
>any of you have similar stories of older generations views on Detroit?  I'd
>be interested to hear.  Peace 2 all.
>
>Ben.
>
>
>-
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Re: [313] Favorite Mills?

2000-06-26 Thread Jochem_Peteri


I´ll stick 2 Final cut-Deep into the cut!  no mercy, like front242 but
soulfull. And a lot of "Apocalyps now" samples.




Favorite Mills?

2000-06-26 Thread Wibo Lammerts
" Black is the number"  (AX-012 Purpose Maker) or "Gamma Player" from  Humana, 
the rest is good but doesn't come even close.

W



Re: [313] the appeals of repetition...

2000-06-26 Thread JARED WILSON

You should check out the book "More Brilliant than the Sun" by Kodwo Eshun.

Jared Wilson
OBSOLETE RECORDS


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Re: [313] Derrick May DEMF track id

2000-06-26 Thread Nick Walsh
I've tried my best to find what I can about this tune.
Shows how sad I am I guess but all I've found (from
the ONE decent person that replied to my mail) is that
it

...could be dutch and sounds about 5 years old... 

Hmmm, if anyone knows you'd better tell me. Also,
what's the tune on Dego's set - Part 1 - 22 mins in. I
want this... someone knows...

Thanks,
Nick:)

--- Stewart Moroney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >
Please help, I need this tune.
> 
> DEMF Derrick May part-2 28 mins in.
> 
> Stewart
> 
>
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Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
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Re: [313] Detroit Grand Trance-Bahs

2000-06-26 Thread Holly C MacDonald-Korth
Whats the deal on this?   I'd only want to own it for novelty purposes but
it seems quite odd putting ghetto and trance together.

anyways
-mike



sounds very miami to me like a track manufactured for power96  (i think it's
the last of the "power" stations... anyone know of any other surviving?)

peace,
holly




radius this friday

2000-06-26 Thread Tom Churchill
Quick plug, apologies for non-UK readers...

  :: r a d i u s
  ::
who   :: Tyler T-Bone Stadius (Sonar, Vancouver)
  :: & residents Raeph Powell & Tom Churchill (Headspace)
what  :: Deep house and then some!
when  :: Friday June 30 / 2200-0300
where :: Clwb Ifor Bach / Cardiff
cost  :: 5/6 ukp
info  :: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  :: http://www.clwbifor.com
  :: 07976 898514
 
Cheers,

Tom



Re: [313] Classic Kraftwerk Find-ULTRAVOX

2000-06-26 Thread jim proffit

Intermodal wrote:


While we are on the subject of classic finds, does anyone have any good
recommendations for obscure but good new wave records?


I'm sure you've already checked "Herr X" (Mister X) by Ultravox. "Alleys of 
your mind" was heavily based on that record. (I wouldn't call it a copy, but 
it comes close). Does Rinon or anybody know if Herr X is released as a 12"? 
Cause I'm thinkin' gettin it...



Proffit

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Re: [313] Sahko Recordings ?

2000-06-26 Thread jim proffit

Fred Giannelli wrote:


Not Detroit related but, does anyone on this list know how to contact
Tommi Gronlund from Sahko Recordings?


-Try if this works:

Sähkö Recordings / Puu
c/o a.men Oy
Tehtaankatu 27-29 D 74
00150 Helsinki
FINLAND

E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Proffit

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RE: [313] Classic Kraftwerk Find

2000-06-26 Thread Batory, Jason
>As a matter of fact if I remember correctly, it looked like the cover of
>Refried Ectoplasm (Switched On Volume 2), I believe there was only 1,500
>vinyl pieces ever released of  it. But I not sure if it was full-length  EP
>or single 12"

I've got this. Its a 2x12", orange vinyl.

Respect
JasonB

> - Original Message -
> From: "Intermodal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "JavierDrada" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2000 2:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [313] Classic Kraftwerk Find
> 
> 
> > Hey Javier,
> >
> > Do you mean Stereolab or Vanguard Stereolab?
> >
> > mt
> >
> >  I even saw some collectors, "Stereo Lab" vinyl
> > > pieces.
> > >
> > > 504.522.0530 tel
> > > 504.522.0529 fax
> > >
> > > Magic Bus Records & CD's
> > > 527 Conti Street
> > > New Orleans, LA 70130
> > >
> > > peace.
> > >
> > > j.d.
> > > www.undergroundcommittee.com
> > >
> > > -
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > --
> >  Michael Taylor : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >  http://homes.arealcity.com/Intermodal/index.html
> >  http://www.mp3.com/TheMSProject
> >  http://www.egroups.com/group/tech-gear
> >  "Occasional collisions unexpectedly encountered determine
> >   the direction of a lifetime. " Elias Canetti
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [313] New Mills, Hood, Craig, Shake, 430 West...

2000-06-26 Thread Cyclone Wehner

These are just the previously unreleased tracks.

>MILLS, JEFF: The Art of Connecting CD (NEXTERA). New compilation of Jeff 
>Mills material, only released in the Czech Republic and Australia

I thought Sweden was mentioned too? Also Poland?? Don't quote me on that. 

'Deckard' 
>(unreleased), 

This is a cool, cinematic track composed as an imaginary film score. Would
suit a time lapse photography type scenario.

'Pacific State Of Mind' 
>(unreleased),

Playful and sexy - sounds like a Millsian Nude Photo! Has this girl laughing
on it.

 'UFO' 
>(unreleased)

More dramatic, quite hard and driving.

I am sure 4 Art was on another compilation?


Anyone else waiting on records from Johanna Thomson?

2000-06-26 Thread AeOtaku
I'm wondering if anyone else out there
is still waiting on records from Johanna
Thomson. If you are, please drop me a line. 
>From the past thread on this I am guessing
there are several of you out there. 

Matt


Re: [313] Re: UR Vote

2000-06-26 Thread AeOtaku
In a message dated 6/23/00 12:18:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< 
 
 yeah, when i see an isolee record, i don't hesitate to listen to it. i've
 heard 'the rest' album several times now. i'm finally in love. first few
 times it just didn't do it for me. i'll probably pick up my copy
 tommorrow.-m >>

For once I am not in agreement with people over a great
album (usually my opinions are similar to what I hear on
this listen): first time I heard "Rest" I was just amazed. Next
ten or so listens still in awe. Not as awestruck now but this
is probably the new full-length of 2000. 

Matt


RE: [313] RE: Detroit Techno & Art

2000-06-26 Thread FC3 Richards
hey that stuff is on ESPN too!!!

 

"THOU SHALT REMEMBER THE FUNK AND KEEP IT HOLY"
-George Clinton

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2000 10:35 PM
> To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
> Subject:  Re: [313] RE: Detroit Techno & Art
> 
> In a message dated 24/06/00 11:43:10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> 
> > Mark Pauline from SRL used to do some pretty off the hook stuff. As time
> >  has progressed he has gotten a little more business oriented and he
> >  isn't quite as radical as he once was. He isn't attacking bill boards
> >  anymore, he isn't stealing his supplies from factories anymore either.
> >  ;) These days the stuff that is probably getting him the most attention
> >  is the Robot Wars events in SF that he organizes. If you watched
> >  Discovery and TLC a couple years ago the events used to get coverage on
> >  their tech shows. Remote control robots that smash each other up while
> >  the onlooking crowd cheers, its like Rome with IC's.
> 
> 


RE: [313] warped

2000-06-26 Thread FC3 Richards
i was told if you put it in the oven at a low temp and then take it out and
put something heavy and flat on top of it then it will flatten out...but i
think that is a last resort for badly warped vinyl.  i also need to know
because my Velocity Funk record is warped and the side with Banjo skips
between it and the other track (whose name i can't remember)
jeff

 

"THOU SHALT REMEMBER THE FUNK AND KEEP IT HOLY"
-George Clinton

> -Original Message-
> From: Christos Michalakis [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2000 5:07 PM
> To:   313@hyperreal.org
> Subject:  [313] warped
> 
> I know that this has been discussed before, but I have some slightly
> warped vinyl.  How can I flatten it?  Thanks in advance.
> 
> --
> ---
> Christos Michalakis   "I'm a Canadian.  Its kind of like an American,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] except without the gun."
> (734) 622-8398-David Foley
> --
> ---
> 
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> 


Santonio Echols

2000-06-26 Thread FC3 Richards
is there any work out there by Santonio Echols besides the tracks that he
did with Kevin Saunderson way back when???
jeff

 

"THOU SHALT REMEMBER THE FUNK AND KEEP IT HOLY"
-George Clinton



demf

2000-06-26 Thread philipm

howdy peepz

anyone know how if i can get a demf poster? it sounds kinda cool.

p-dogg



New Mills, Hood, Craig, Shake, 430 West...

2000-06-26 Thread Lance @ Inaudible
Just read about some impressive new Detroit-related releases that i thought
others might like to know about. Here are the details on each.

MILLS, JEFF: The Art of Connecting CD (NEXTERA). New compilation of Jeff Mills 
material, only released in the Czech Republic and Australia -- will not be 
issued in any other countries. "Track titles: 'Deckard' (unreleased), 'Nepta' 
(taken from AX-015: The Other Day EP), 'Gamma Player' (taken from AX-012: 
Humana EP), 4 Art (unreleased), 'Pacific State Of Mind' (unreleased), 'Cobolt' 
(taken from AX-016 Very EP), 'The Bells' (taken from PM-002 Kat Moda EP), 
'Java' (taken from PM-001 Java EP), 'UFO' (unreleased), 'Utopia' (taken from 
AX-008 Cycle 30 EP). All compositions produced, mixed, and edited by Jeff Mills 
for Axis Records. Recorded at the Spider Formation in Chicago. The Art of 
Connecting is dedicated to those who feel the need to express what they feel 
through the amazing art form of electronic music." 

VA: House Party 013: Carl Craig Presents Planet E Mix CD (NEXTERA). "Compiled 
and mixed live by Carl Craig and DJ Peter Anthony of two Technics turntables 
with a Pioneer DJM-500 DJ Mixer, November 1999 at Electron Labs, Detroit USA. 
Post-production by Carl Craig featuring the Korg KAOSS Pad at Electron Labs, 
Detroit. Featuring: Chaz Vincent- "Dream Zenith 2", Paperclip People- "Floor", 
Designer Music- "Stevie Knows", Alton Miller- "Exstasol", Common Factor- "North 
Nights", Recloose- "Soul Clap 2000", Paperclip People- "Steam", Gemini- 
"Crossing Mars", Common Factor- "Pisces Groove", Chaz Vincent- "Tom Cat", BFC- 
"Galaxy", Common Factor- "Will"." 

ROBERT HOOD Nighttime World Vol 2 US - 14 tracks+prod. by Robert Hood. 
Delicious diverse mix of moody tech, techno jazz, mysterious soundtrack like
pieces, riveting tech minimalism, space jazz, spoken word and more! CD M-PLANT

DA SAMPLA Samplaholic - 3 tracks+prod. by Da Sampla: Pop; The rider; Lamented. 
Anthony 'Shake' Shakir appears in his 'Da Sampla' guise. Da Sampla serves up a 
quirky foray into eclectic sounds and elusive funk, somewhere in between house, 
techno, electro and trip hop. The mysterious, ominous, tech housey 'The Rider' 
stands out. 12 MOODS & GROOVES

RANDOM NOISE GENERATION Links in the chain  - 13 tracks+prod. by Random Noise 
Generation. Following a steady series of dance floor EPs,
Random Noise Generation has reached the next level, a decryption of encryption, 
a journey to the exploratory realm of the mind's eye and the ear's mind. 'Links 
in the chain' compiles the best of R.N.G. into a collection of dance floor/mind 
moving music. This collection chronicles the R.N.G. history from their first 
hit track 'Falling in dub' in 1992 to new unreleased songs for the 2000. The 
funk driven rhythms of Random Noise Generation have moved crowds for the last 8 
years, and this is the definitive collection. CD 430 WEST 

RANDOM NOISE GENERATION Links In The Chain 2xLPs  - 7 tracks+prod. by Random 
Noise Generation: Instrument of change; The beginning; Echelon
(PGP edit); The reckoning; Badge of honor; We can survive; Falling in dub. 
Following a steady series of dance floor EPs, R.N.G. has reached the next 
level, a decryption of incryption, a journey to the exploratory realm of the 
mind's eye and the ear's mind. Now available on double vinyl pack, 'Links in 
the chain' compiles the best of R.N.G. into a collection of dance floor/mind 
moving music. DP 430 WEST

Anybody have reviews of these?

-->-Lance---
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
p.o. box 450715
westlake, ohio 44145
united states



Re: [313] mills records

2000-06-26 Thread Turlough Murphy


Utopia is my fave too!



From: "Cyborg K" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
CC: 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: [313] mills records
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 22:38:45 GMT

I love Utopia...  that very abstract and expressionist track that he opens
the live at the liquid room CD with.  The parts he doesn't play on that 
disc

are great too though!  --dave

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Re: [313] Older people's views on detriot?

2000-06-26 Thread innercity

- Original Message -
From: Ben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 313 <313@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2000 8:44 PM
Subject: [313] Older people's views on detriot?


> Hi everyone hope you are keeping well!  I was just remembering a friends
> Granddad (God bless his soul) saying how the music blew his mind
sometimes,
> but asked if it could be played lower! :-) (The guy was in his 70's).  Do
> any of you have similar stories of older generations views on Detroit?
I'd
> be interested to hear.  Peace 2 all.
>
> Ben.



HiYa Ben  and the rest of the tech heads

Us old git's still go ya no...( I,m 49 by the way and not ready for the
wheel chair just yet)
I remember when I first saw Kraftwerk and Tangerine Dream -  live, back in
76.
I was in the RAF and serving time  in Germany god it blew my
mind, the heaviest thing then was Pink Floyd.
Since then I have become an audio design/engineer (The Dome in London! it's
one of mine)
and developed my own equipment - and yes
I DO LOVE TECHNO / ELECTRONICA.. Its only a modern version of T Dream
anyway.

If any of us old gits can help you young "sprogs" (military for yung'uns)
then fire away, I will help ya with technical
audio, mixing, production etc, problems.
Just to really pee you young un's off, if you want to hear my latest techno
mix
e-mail me and I will send you it in ASF (media player) format.
Good luck and stay off the drugs, OK experience talking ere.It
catch's up with ya,  believe me.
Stick to booze, sex and ciggies.
Steve
e-mail me at
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



>
>



warped

2000-06-26 Thread Christos Michalakis
I know that this has been discussed before, but I have some slightly
warped vinyl.  How can I flatten it?  Thanks in advance.

-
Christos Michalakis "I'm a Canadian.  Its kind of like an American,
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   except without the gun."
(734) 622-8398  -David Foley
-