Re: (313) Justice
you can add your own influence to something else. hiphop culture is all over the globe now, and it has been mutated and added on to. i personally think all of this stuff sucks, but at least it is being done by people who live that culture as best as it is done in their country. spank rock and ta live down the street, theyre spectators to a culture they then represent. it wouldnt matter if they were purple if they were down with the culture. but theyre not so it doesnt matter. so how are they *not* down with the culture? What would they be doing differently if they were down with the culture? I always always got the impression from the early hollertronix/the rub/moneystudies/et all that their whole vibe was we're not you guys, but we're *down* with what you are doing (with respect to the baltimore producers and such). Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC
Re: (313) Justice
y0y0y0y0y0y0y0y00y00y0yy0y0y0y0y00y0yy00y0y00y0y0y0y0y0y00y0y0y0y0y0yy0, i dont see why this even matters anyways, either music is good or it isnt. tom has the for-real-o-meter though, for real. G. - Original Message - From: Rob G [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 7:47 PM Subject: Re: (313) Justice you can add your own influence to something else. hiphop culture is all over the globe now, and it has been mutated and added on to. i personally think all of this stuff sucks, but at least it is being done by people who live that culture as best as it is done in their country. spank rock and ta live down the street, theyre spectators to a culture they then represent. it wouldnt matter if they were purple if they were down with the culture. but theyre not so it doesnt matter. so how are they *not* down with the culture? What would they be doing differently if they were down with the culture? I always always got the impression from the early hollertronix/the rub/moneystudies/et all that their whole vibe was we're not you guys, but we're *down* with what you are doing (with respect to the baltimore producers and such). Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC
Re: (313) Justice
that's the whole point. who cares with being down with a culture or not. who CARES! i have a great cd that is supposedly traditional south american indian music, but it's actually made by music professors from sao paolo. it's great, i like it, i could care less about how real they are etc. where do you draw the line on these judgement calls of realness anyways, and does it ever have positive effects? i mean what is the point? did chi people get all protective when detroit did their take on house? probably some did. i don't have time for that sort of nonsense. music is meant to bleed all over the place, it's in its nature, it's what it do. trace a style back and you can keep tracing it all the way back to africa. you don't have to like the new permutations, but insisting that new permutations are wrong is just assanine imo. i don't care if indie rockers start doing some retarded take on techno and get famous for it, go for it, i won't enjoy it and i'll talk sh*t on it and give it a stupid name, but it has as much a right to exist as anything else. this is all art 101 if you ask me, but tmo is acting like it's a sport of keepin it real. some of the best music of all time is made by ultra reclusive socially retarded people who could care less about being down with a scene or culture, they just make music. or maybe they're gregarious a-holes, who knows. i don't know spank rock and i don't know their motivations or personalities and i don't presume to know. i keep hearing tom assert that they are fronting on bmore club, but i think their name is supposed to be a concept in itself, it's spank rock. yes, it's got a rock attitude. it's not bmore club per se, it's in the name for godsakes -Original Message- From: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Jun 27, 2007 8:01 PM To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) Justice y0y0y0y0y0y0y0y00y00y0yy0y0y0y0y00y0yy00y0y00y0y0y0y0y0y00y0y0y0y0y0yy0, i dont see why this even matters anyways, either music is good or it isnt. tom has the for-real-o-meter though, for real. G. - Original Message - From: Rob G [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 7:47 PM Subject: Re: (313) Justice you can add your own influence to something else. hiphop culture is all over the globe now, and it has been mutated and added on to. i personally think all of this stuff sucks, but at least it is being done by people who live that culture as best as it is done in their country. spank rock and ta live down the street, theyre spectators to a culture they then represent. it wouldnt matter if they were purple if they were down with the culture. but theyre not so it doesnt matter. so how are they *not* down with the culture? What would they be doing differently if they were down with the culture? I always always got the impression from the early hollertronix/the rub/moneystudies/et all that their whole vibe was we're not you guys, but we're *down* with what you are doing (with respect to the baltimore producers and such). Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC
Re: (313) Justice finale??
someone wake me up when they get out the kiddie pool and mud. or might I suggest just chasing eachother in a circle for similar results. ;) agree to disagree, it's the art of mature discussion. --- J.T. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: that's the whole point. who cares with being down with a culture or not. who CARES! i have a great cd that is supposedly traditional south american indian music, but it's actually made by music professors from sao paolo. it's great, i like it, i could care less about how real they are etc. where do you draw the line on these judgement calls of realness anyways, and does it ever have positive effects? i mean what is the point? did chi people get all protective when detroit did their take on house? probably some did. i don't have time for that sort of nonsense. music is meant to bleed all over the place, it's in its nature, it's what it do. trace a style back and you can keep tracing it all the way back to africa. you don't have to like the new permutations, but insisting that new permutations are wrong is just assanine imo. i don't care if indie rockers start doing some retarded take on techno and get famous for it, go for it, i won't enjoy it and i'll talk sh*t on it and give it a stupid name, but it has as much a right to exist as anything else. this is all art 101 if you ask me, but tmo is acting like it's a sport of keepin it real. some of the best music of all time is made by ultra reclusive socially retarded people who could care less about being down with a scene or culture, they just make music. or maybe they're gregarious a-holes, who knows. i don't know spank rock and i don't know their motivations or personalities and i don't presume to know. i keep hearing tom assert that they are fronting on bmore club, but i think their name is supposed to be a concept in itself, it's spank rock. yes, it's got a rock attitude. it's not bmore club per se, it's in the name for godsakes -Original Message- From: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Jun 27, 2007 8:01 PM To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) Justice y0y0y0y0y0y0y0y00y00y0yy0y0y0y0y00y0yy00y0y00y0y0y0y0y0y00y0y0y0y0y0yy0, i dont see why this even matters anyways, either music is good or it isnt. tom has the for-real-o-meter though, for real. G. - Original Message - From: Rob G [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 7:47 PM Subject: Re: (313) Justice you can add your own influence to something else. hiphop culture is all over the globe now, and it has been mutated and added on to. i personally think all of this stuff sucks, but at least it is being done by people who live that culture as best as it is done in their country. spank rock and ta live down the street, theyre spectators to a culture they then represent. it wouldnt matter if they were purple if they were down with the culture. but theyre not so it doesnt matter. so how are they *not* down with the culture? What would they be doing differently if they were down with the culture? I always always got the impression from the early hollertronix/the rub/moneystudies/et all that their whole vibe was we're not you guys, but we're *down* with what you are doing (with respect to the baltimore producers and such). Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mailp=summer+activities+for+kidscs=bz
Re: (313) Justice
On 6/27/07, J.T. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: did chi people get all protective when detroit did their take on house? probably some did. detroit had their own dance culture already going on, as well as taking part in chicago's house culture. insisting that new permutations are wrong is just assanine imo. i dont care if the permutation is new. there are plenty that are just fine and dont have anything to do with cultural appropriation in any way. i dont have any problems with that. i don't care if indie rockers start doing some retarded take on techno and get famous for it, go for it, i won't enjoy it and i'll talk sh*t on it and give it a stupid name, but it has as \ much a right to exist as anything else. it can exist all it wants. but im going to talk sh*t on it. and call it names. which is what im doing. and youre saying i shouldnt? this is all art 101 if you ask me, but tmo is acting like it's a sport of keepin it real. it has nothing to do with keeping it real. i like how since we're talking about black music i have seen the words on the street and keeping it real thrown about in reference to my opinions, yet i never use those phrases, i talk about artists being part of a culture. some of the best music of all time is made by ultra reclusive socially retarded people who could care less about being down with a scene or culture, they just make music. name these people whose music is not from a culture. it doesnt exist. i don't know spank rock and i don't know their motivations or personalities and i don't presume to know. all i can go by is what i hear and read. if they dont want to be judged on that, they should do a better job of PR. i keep hearing tom assert that they are fronting on bmore club, but i think their name is supposed to be a concept in itself, it's spank rock. yes, it's got a rock attitude. it's not bmore club per se, it's in the name for godsakes why then does every single review, writeup, etc mention baltimore and club music? they dont even live there anymore. they try to cash in on that credential. tom
(313) Techno Party
Hey all, I'm feeling the need to party... What's going on this weekend? Looking for techno - (not looking for trance or progressive house) Any suggestions welcome... peace, T63
Re: (313) Justice
On 6/27/07, Rob G [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: so how are they *not* down with the culture? What would they be doing differently if they were down with the culture? they would have records out on labels, have deejay residencies, live in baltimore, etc etc. instead they came from nowhere and represent this stuff on worldwide label. I always always got the impression from the early hollertronix/the rub/moneystudies/et all that their whole vibe was we're not you guys, but we're *down* with what you are doing (with respect to the baltimore producers and such). they can say that all they want, but who decides? rod lee opened for spank rock at a bmore show. http://media.www.jhunewsletter.com/media/storage/paper932/news/2006/11/02/ArtsAndEntertainment/Baltimore.Club.And.Spank.Rock.Attract.A.Hipster.Crowd-2439111.shtml the guy is not critical of spank rock, but look how differently he describes rod lee and how he talks about the hollertronix guys. being down and giving these people opening slots is almost more insulting to the culture than it is in helping people get down with it in anything more than the most superficial and ridiculous manner. tom
Re: (313) Techno Party
if you're in detroit: http://www.detroitluv.com/index.php#14 there are also some out-of-area events listed there, but nothing super-comprehensive - Original Message - From: T63 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 11:27 PM Subject: (313) Techno Party Hey all, I'm feeling the need to party... What's going on this weekend? Looking for techno - (not looking for trance or progressive house) Any suggestions welcome... peace, T63
Re: (313) Justice
also JT, if you want an example of doing it right by these small genres, look to Mo Wax in the summer of 00. they wanted to represent ghetto tech and miami bass, but they didnt go out and find some white hipsters to make a joke out of it. instead they got DJ Assault and Magic Mike to drop LPs: http://www.discogs.com/release/14733 http://www.discogs.com/release/94662 now thats how to do it right. and i remember they got heavily criticised by the usual Mo Wax fans for dropping those LPs. doing it right isnt always the easy way, and it certainly isnt the way to make money. tom
Re: (313) Justice
also JT, if you want an example of doing it right by these small genres, look to Mo Wax in the summer of 00. they wanted to represent ghetto tech and miami bass, but they didnt go out and find some white hipsters to make a joke out of it. instead they got DJ Assault and Magic Mike to drop LPs: wait, we're talking about labels now? well, mo'wax were just putting out music they liked. i know those guys, i worked with them too remember. it should also be noted dj assault was the hype then, coming off coverage in rolling stone and spin etc, and was an obvious choice with little competition. just like spank rock was an obvious choice for ninja tune because they were selling out shows everywhere and had some hype, and because ninja tune dug their music. maybe technics should have sent them a demo. i sure wish they'd put out technics too, but it's not spank's fault they don't, and technics has got his stuff worked out anyways. so why all the drama and bitterness and why are you directing it where you are? what is this big conspiracy you think has occurred, what are the motives for pushing spank and not technics? there's loads of bad music out there, is it the crappy artists' fault when it miraculously becomes popular, or their label's for picking it up and torturing the world with it and embarking on a marketing campaign etc etc?
Re: (313) Justice
detroit had their own dance culture already going on, as well as taking part in chicago's house culture. detroit had it's own sub-culture yes, they shouldn't have come along and appropriated chicago's. and chicago shouldn't have appropriated new york's. music institute was just a wannabe music box was just a wannabe paradise garage where do you draw the lines? why bother? i dont care if the permutation is new. there are plenty that are just fine and dont have anything to do with cultural appropriation in any way. i dont have any problems with that. that is a ridiculous statement. culture can't be narrowly defined, nor can appropriation. you can say virtually everything is appropriation. there is no such thing as originality in the objective sense. besides, appropriation is a scary word, very negative connotations, but it's not as sinister as all that necessarily. white radio appropriated the jive talk style of black radio, but you could argue that helped bring black culture further into the mainstream and promoted racial equality. it had bad effects, it had good effects, like lots of things do.. it can exist all it wants. but im going to talk sh*t on it. and call it names. which is what im doing. and youre saying i shouldnt? no, i'm saying all your points about culture and realness and blah blah blah have nothing to do with whether their music is sonically pleasing to you or not. there are factors other than your ears affecting your opinion. those other things have their place, but not in your ears. it has nothing to do with keeping it real. i like how since we're then why do you keep talking about how they are fronting and not down and not real, and comparing to who is real, and etc etc? what about the SOUNDS??? just say they use crappy samples and you don't like their voices. the rest is noise when it comes to talking about music. some of the best music of all time is made by ultra reclusive socially retarded people who could care less about being down with a scene or culture, they just make music. name these people whose music is not from a culture. it doesnt exist. dummy, sub-culture that they themselves 'belong' to then, however you go about defining that in the first place. i do not consider myself a part of house sub-culture. at all. and yet i make house. i love house. should i give it up? where do you draw the lines? why do you give so much credit to scenes/culture in the first place? what's so great about them, other than getting the bragging rights to claim you are real and to get credit or whatever? scenes just breed homogeny and boring politics. i'd rather just make music i like and get paid for it. i'm getting too old to care about anything else. credit where credit is due is great of course, but getting credit isn't going to make technics as popular as spank or ayres. because all these issues you are talking about has nothing to do with their popularity. they make relatively mainstream, radio-friendly party music. nobody cares about the rest. except music geeks like us, the .01% all i can go by is what i hear and read. if they dont want to be judged on that, they should do a better job of PR. i think they'd like to be judged on their music and i think the other 99.99% of the people who hear them do that. why then does every single review, writeup, etc mention baltimore and club music? they dont even live there anymore. they try to cash in on that credential. because they are highly influenced by bmore club stuff? i'd probably mention detroit in any interview, but i've never lived there. i'd also mention music that is 80 years old that i wasn't even alive to experience. i think you are miffed because they are coming across as the pioneers of bmore club, and that's unfortunate, but that's how it goes. they are treated that way by the media because they are the first to make waves (similar things have happened with dance music, like how portishead or chem bros became the pioneers of trip hop in the mainstream's eyes). they give credit to the bmore scene in every interview, like you say. so...? what more can they do? and what is there to cash in on? there was no bmore club craze until them, and it's still not really about bmore. they are bringing attention to the music. they shouldn't? btw, tom and i just like to argue. we friends. i think he says dumb stuff sometimes but so do i (see above and previous 1000 messages on 313). but i 3 tom
Re: (313) Track Moodymann dropped... what is it? a quick nyc update
That would be greatly appreciated! Peter On 6/27/07, Stoddard, Kamal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll look when I get home tonite after work. But I was playing it the other day so it shouldn't be hard to find. Bought it in like 99-2000 maybe? It's a reggae kinda joint, but not all druggy and delayed out. Just wobbly bass and some bouncy stabs and that guy going on. Fxcking great tune too. I'll post the name tonite for sure. K mwnb -Original Message- From: M Ng [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 2:24 PM To: Stoddard, Kamal Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) Track Moodymann dropped... what is it? a quick nyc update I think so! it was fresh in my mind 2 weeks ago but now i cna't remember.. the bass so deep that i can't even hear it very much on the video! So what is it? ;) On 6/26/07, Stoddard, Kamal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Did you ever get an answer for this? Just catching up and I think I might have this track. Does the guy go on about my woman, my woman... and all that? Lemme know. K mwnb -Original Message- From: M Ng [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 11:24 PM To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: (313) Track Moodymann dropped... what is it? a quick nyc update Hey guys Just a quick update NYC Moodymann played at Shelter on the 17th, nice little party with him playing behind a screen (no facing the front!). He'd dropped some really great deep tracks, speak on the microphone and everyone had a great time. This one track, he played i have no idea what it is but it was so very deep ... i captured it on video on my camera: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8EzVsdaJBg [this will also give you an idea of how everyone was also dancing around] Carl played at Demon nights last night. Unfort he was BAD in that it was more of a uplifting NY sound with no SOUL.. i think Dang spent the nite getting him to play this one track. Ok it was fun but I've seen him funk it up big time and tonight unfort was not it. It ws probably the crowd of 18 year olds or whatever. :( I have come to the realisation that I prefer the relatively empty venue and a DJ that is uncompromising (eg Jeff, Juan, Moodymann) rather than a full venue and bad music. cheers m
(313) MOS // Aroy Dee website
http://www.mosrecordings.com/
Re: (313) Justice
Plan B is a bit of fun. Roots Manuva is great live. The new Dizzee is really fresh musically. Kinda Bomb Squad type beats on the single Sirens. I like Akala's track Shakespeare - the one that sampled Tomcraft. Clever concept and works well! There is a French MC who worked in Detroit lately, I forget his name! He's fresh and soulful. On 28/06/2007, at 1:11 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's the general verdict on Roots Manuva ? I've not heard any new material from him for a while but I still love Brand New Second Hand, Run Come Save Me Dub Come Save Me. He's the best UK MC that I know of. I'm looking forward to checking out some of these recommendations tho. Kind regards, Gary Entertainment UK Ltd Auriol Drive | Greenford Park | Greenford | UB6 0DS x: 2946 | t: +44 (0)20 8833 2946 kent williams [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: list 313 313@hyperreal.org il.com cc: Subject: Re: (313) Justice 27/06/07 15:36 On the british tip, any MC that tries to sound American is as weak as almost all Americans who try to make Drum and Bass. People I have respect for -- like the Streets, and Goldie Lookin Chains -- aren't even trying to make real hip hop: they're doing something uniquely British. They don't hit me in the heart like the best American hip hop, but they sound like themselves, not like they spent their youths in a pub listening to Biggie on their walkman, fantasizing about walking the mean streets of NYC. I'm very picky about hip hop as well. When it's on, it's Shakespeare-caliber word play backed by beats that make you want to cry. When it's not, well, it's like 99% of all musical culture -- crap. On 6/26/07, Tristan Watkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/25/07, Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mehdi is more like Timbaland but open about his influences. He used to produce MC Solaar. i never really liked solaar either. to be honest, aside from a couple of UK emcees, i find most non-american hiphop to just be missing something.
Re: (313) Techno Party
Techno people don't party, we just get together and confirm that we are those who know! On Jun 27, 2007, at 11:27 PM, T63 wrote: Hey all, I'm feeling the need to party... What's going on this weekend? Looking for techno - (not looking for trance or progressive house) Any suggestions welcome... peace, T63 -- matt kane's brain http://hydrogenproject.com aim - mkbatwerk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: (313) Justice
This wins for the longest thread in recent memory. Thanks to all (and Tom) for not getting super-salty and personal for a change. My 2 Cents: Tittsworth just played here. I haven't even heard his records, but in my opinion he ripped sh*t up. He throws everything but the kitchen sink into his sets -- all sorts of classic rock, Nirvana, Michael Jackson, Booty House, and what I presume is the BMore club stuff Tom is so exercised about. I had fun, and the rest of the people in the spot had fun. And Iowa City has a huge population of ironic hipsters, but they don't come out for our dance events. We get people who want to dance and get crazy -- black, white, old, young, gutter punks and club kids. I don't claim any authenticity for the scene, but a dance crowd here has almost no overlap with the hipster set. The hipster set doesn't even LIKE The Picador -- the club Tittsworth played at -- because it's cinderblock cave with filthy floors and lousy ventilation. I honestly don't see how he was being ironic -- even when he dropped Journey. Like Jason Forrest, it's funny when they quote cheesy pop music, but they do it because they love it, not because they're all PoMo. Whatever the hell Tittsworth does it seemed genuinely his own. Tom or anyone can diss him for cultural appropriation, but I don't think it's the whole story. Contrast what he does with, for example, DJ Funk. I know Chuck a little -- he's played here several times, and I spent one very weird night driving him around town. Nice enough guy. Funk is very much an authentic proponent of Booty House. But his show consists of mixing between two CDRs in Pioneer CD decks, and him jumping around and clowning. People seem to like it, but as far as a musical performance goes, give me Tittsworth any day. Either music is real, and it works or it isn't and it doesn't. Talking about cultural imperialism is all well and good but there is _NO_ african-american music that has ever stayed purely black. Aretha's records were produced by a Turk and had white musicians all over them. Elvis isn't a particularly good example either -- Public Enemy's famous diss notwithstanding. Especially when you've got Pat Boone covering Little Richard to beat up on. And we have to consider the audience -- NO African American music has become a popular phenomenon without a white audience. And once it has a white audience you hear muttering from some black folks about artists 'tomming' for that audience. Or in Spike Lee's case with Bamboozled, fairly shouting from the rooftops. Curiously, you mostly hear complaints about cultural appropriation from white people. They want their black music like they want their gourmet chocolate -- pure and black. I'm not calling Tom out about it either -- love him or hate him, agree or disagree, Tom's passion for the music is real. But I really wonder how valid it is for the dominant culture to demand 'authenticity' in the music produced by the minority culture.
Re: (313) Justice
speaking of dj funk: in an interview (for those who understand german: http://www.de-bug.de/texte/4588.html, quite funny read...) he says that he's going to release stuff on ed banger. as far as i know there's only a remix for justice's waters of nazareth so far. oh, back on topic. if you wanna see him and the ed banger posse clowning check: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrLxDZeqiw0 (even if don't dig the music, you have to give respect for the raw energy in that room, hilarious) c* Contrast what he does with, for example, DJ Funk. I know Chuck a little -- he's played here several times, and I spent one very weird night driving him around town. Nice enough guy. Funk is very much an authentic proponent of Booty House. But his show consists of mixing between two CDRs in Pioneer CD decks, and him jumping around and clowning. People seem to like it, but as far as a musical performance goes, give me Tittsworth any day.
Re: (313) MOS // Aroy Dee website
hahahaha i'm cracking up that he put my comment in the press quotes for mos #6. so articulate awesome to see the architectural pictures and sketches (aroy is an archytech fyi), and dammmn that record shelf he made is CLASS (see interviews mixes page) lies is such an awesome track. wish those mixes were downloadable, especially the planet delsin ones. saving them for a cd release? :P -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Jun 28, 2007 2:30 AM To: 313 313@hyperreal.org Subject: (313) MOS // Aroy Dee website http://www.mosrecordings.com/
Re: (313) MOS // Aroy Dee website
Hey JT this might keep your ears interested for a while Aroy Dee (MOS) and Tim Nieburg (Planet Delsin) recorded at Nachtplan in the TWSTD (Amsterdam) a raw mix ranging from Chicago till detroit records with tracks from Carl Craig, James T Cotton Melvin Oliphant, Mr. Fingers, Aroy Dee, Redshape, Ra.h, UR, Ragtime, Rob Hood, Nova dream Sequence, Sterac, etc. http://www.mosrecordings.com/audio/mixes/Aroydee[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mosrecordings.com/audio/mixes/Aroydee[EMAIL PROTECTED] Cheers BT --- J.T. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hahahaha i'm cracking up that he put my comment in the press quotes for mos #6. so articulate awesome to see the architectural pictures and sketches (aroy is an archytech fyi), and dammmn that record shelf he made is CLASS (see interviews mixes page) lies is such an awesome track. wish those mixes were downloadable, especially the planet delsin ones. saving them for a cd release? :P -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Jun 28, 2007 2:30 AM To: 313 313@hyperreal.org Subject: (313) MOS // Aroy Dee website http://www.mosrecordings.com/
Re: (313) MOS // Aroy Dee website
ha no you can download them all :-) http://www.mosrecordings.com/audio/mixes/m1.mp3 http://www.mosrecordings.com/audio/mixes/m2.mp3 etc.. J.T. schreef: hahahaha i'm cracking up that he put my comment in the press quotes for mos #6. so articulate awesome to see the architectural pictures and sketches (aroy is an archytech fyi), and dammmn that record shelf he made is CLASS (see interviews mixes page) lies is such an awesome track. wish those mixes were downloadable, especially the planet delsin ones. saving them for a cd release? :P -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Jun 28, 2007 2:30 AM To: 313 313@hyperreal.org Subject: (313) MOS // Aroy Dee website http://www.mosrecordings.com/
(313) Vague terrain 07: sample culture launched
The latest edition of the Toronto based digital arts quarterly vagueterrain.net is now live. The issue, vague terrain 07: sample culture is a provocative exploration of contemporary sampling of sound, image and information. This body of work examines the remix as a critical practice while addressing broader issues of ownership and intellectual property. Vague terrain 07: sample culture contains work from: brad collard, christian marc schmidt, defasten, des cailloux et du carbone, [dNASAb], eduardo navas, eskaei, freida abtan, jakob thiesen, jennifer a. machiorlatti, jeremy rotsztain, noah pred, ortiz, rebekah farrugia, and an interview with ezekiel honig conducted by evan saskin. For more information please see http://www.vagueterrain.net
Re: (313) Justice
I'm so shocked and disappointed that a serious, real artist such as DJ Funk (from a genuine place like Chicago) would pander to working with such transparent and vapid scenesters as Justice (from Paris no less... what the hell do they know about culture anyway?) - Original Message From: Carlos de Brito [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 6:55:45 AM Subject: Re: (313) Justice speaking of dj funk: in an interview (for those who understand german: http://www.de-bug.de/texte/4588.html, quite funny read...) he says that he's going to release stuff on ed banger. as far as i know there's only a remix for justice's waters of nazareth so far. oh, back on topic. if you wanna see him and the ed banger posse clowning check: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrLxDZeqiw0 (even if don't dig the music, you have to give respect for the raw energy in that room, hilarious) c* Contrast what he does with, for example, DJ Funk. I know Chuck a little -- he's played here several times, and I spent one very weird night driving him around town. Nice enough guy. Funk is very much an authentic proponent of Booty House. But his show consists of mixing between two CDRs in Pioneer CD decks, and him jumping around and clowning. People seem to like it, but as far as a musical performance goes, give me Tittsworth any day. Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. http://travel.yahoo.com/
Re: (313) Justice
On 6/28/07, Rob G [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm so shocked and disappointed that a serious, real artist such as DJ Funk (from a genuine place like Chicago) would pander to working with such transparent and vapid scenesters as Justice (from Paris no less... what the hell do they know about culture anyway?) their money spends as well as anyone else's. and its good that someone with some actual place to make money from such music is getting it instead of the other jokers they have on there. tom
Re: (313) Justice
well, yes but... I was being heavy handedly sarcastic. but now you bring money into it... - Original Message From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 9:19:29 AM Subject: Re: (313) Justice On 6/28/07, Rob G [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm so shocked and disappointed that a serious, real artist such as DJ Funk (from a genuine place like Chicago) would pander to working with such transparent and vapid scenesters as Justice (from Paris no less... what the hell do they know about culture anyway?) their money spends as well as anyone else's. and its good that someone with some actual place to make money from such music is getting it instead of the other jokers they have on there. tom Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/
Re: (313) Justice
On 6/28/07, Rob G [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: well, yes but... I was being heavy handedly sarcastic. but now you bring money into it... my whole problem is that these guys that i dont like are taking money, exposure, popularity, and credit from the people who really deserve it. which is part of the reason im so angry about it. if the deserving people get hooked up with all of that, someone might actually be doing something right. but one remix isnt enough! tom
Re: (313) Justice
Big tings gwidarn! http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=tjvCmdp6OKQ Incidentally, Plan B's just down the high street. On 28 Jun 2007, at 10:14, Cyclone Wehner wrote: Plan B is a bit of fun. Roots Manuva is great live. The new Dizzee is really fresh musically. Kinda Bomb Squad type beats on the single Sirens. I like Akala's track Shakespeare - the one that sampled Tomcraft. Clever concept and works well! There is a French MC who worked in Detroit lately, I forget his name! He's fresh and soulful. On 28/06/2007, at 1:11 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's the general verdict on Roots Manuva ? I've not heard any new material from him for a while but I still love Brand New Second Hand, Run Come Save Me Dub Come Save Me. He's the best UK MC that I know of. I'm looking forward to checking out some of these recommendations tho. Kind regards, Gary Entertainment UK Ltd Auriol Drive | Greenford Park | Greenford | UB6 0DS x: 2946 | t: +44 (0)20 8833 2946 kent williams [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: list 313 313@hyperreal.org il.com cc: Subject: Re: (313) Justice 27/06/07 15:36 On the british tip, any MC that tries to sound American is as weak as almost all Americans who try to make Drum and Bass. People I have respect for -- like the Streets, and Goldie Lookin Chains -- aren't even trying to make real hip hop: they're doing something uniquely British. They don't hit me in the heart like the best American hip hop, but they sound like themselves, not like they spent their youths in a pub listening to Biggie on their walkman, fantasizing about walking the mean streets of NYC. I'm very picky about hip hop as well. When it's on, it's Shakespeare-caliber word play backed by beats that make you want to cry. When it's not, well, it's like 99% of all musical culture -- crap. On 6/26/07, Tristan Watkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/25/07, Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mehdi is more like Timbaland but open about his influences. He used to produce MC Solaar. i never really liked solaar either. to be honest, aside from a couple of UK emcees, i find most non-american hiphop to just be missing something.
Re: (313) Justice finale??
diana potts wrote: someone wake me up when they get out the kiddie pool and mud. or might I suggest just chasing eachother in a circle for similar results. Personally, I'm waiting for the J.T./Kooky Scientist/Tomm WWF steel-cage mud wrestling deathmatch. :D - Greg P.S. As for all the Justice/Spank Rock/etc. discussion - I thought this was the (313) Detroit Techno list, not the Whatever Music The (313) Listmembers Feel Like Discussing At The Moment list?!?
Re: (313) Justice finale??
On Jun 28, 2007, at 1:43 PM, Greg Earle wrote: P.S. As for all the Justice/Spank Rock/etc. discussion - I thought this was the (313) Detroit Techno list, not the Whatever Music The (313) Listmembers Feel Like Discussing At The Moment list?!? OK, nobody talk about Delsin anymore! -- matt kane's brain http://hydrogenproject.com aim - mkbatwerk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: (313) Justice finale??
Personally, I'm waiting for the J.T./Kooky Scientist/Tomm WWF steel-cage mud wrestling deathmatch. Count me in for a block of season tickets. Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink QA. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396545367
Re: (313) Jeff Mills Runway Fashion Show
A techno perfume would be cool. Something like Thierry Mugler's Alien, that's a techno sent kinda. The packaging is unreal. On 28/06/2007, at 5:31 AM, John Sokolowski wrote: Just got this in my inbox. I signed up for the Gamma Player newsletter when I was in the shop a few months back ___ GOOD FOR PARTY PRESENTS: LET THERE BE LIGHT EARTH. AIR. FIRE. WATER. A demonstration of design, substance, and revealing illumination. A runway and live mannequin show exhibiting styles of the four elements featuring Gamma Player's collection of exclusive international labels from South America, Europe, and East Asia. Curated by CHRISTINA WILSON of Good for Party. Music provided by JEFF MILLS for duration of the show. Couture style provided by GAMMAPLAYER. THURSDAY JUNE 28TH 8PM - 2AM Lumen | 845 W. Fulton Market | Chicago | 312.733. COMPLIMENTARY COCKTAIL RECEPTION 8 TO 9PM. Runway Show Begins at 9pm. Please rsvp for the runway show and complimentary cocktail reception to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] by 6/27/07. More info: www.goodforparty.com _ Who's that on the Red Carpet? Play win glamorous prizes. http:// club.live.com/red_carpet_reveal.aspx?icid=REDCARPET_hotmailtextlink3
Re: (313) Justice
I hear you about that problem, and again, this is part and parcel to the appropriation issue. but - again, personal anecdote here - I've purchased a lot of baltimore club 12s at this point, but a few years back I'd never heard of it. What exposed me to it? (I live on the west coast, b.t.w.) the Hollertronix mix: Never Scared. Before I had garnered an appreciation for Detroit techno... what stuff did I come across that piqued my interested in electronic music in general? Honestly I'm embarrassed to name the acts but, all cross-over stuff where they were appropriating. Same with the route I took in my long winding education of hip hop culture. Believe me, my experience in appreciating African-American music culture as a whole has given me DEEP pause in considering the Elvis effect. Is that white guilt? I'm loath to think so. I'm just grateful - whatever the path taken - that I've been exposed to some phenomenal music and culture that I love. SO: when I we have a modern rock station out here that will play hip hop every once and a while, but when they do... IT'S THE BEASTIE BOYS! yeah, I wince a little... its kinda messed up no doubt. but then, who knows, maybe there were be some people that get exposed to it, and then that's just a starting point for a whole world that's opened up. I wonder: could I be the only fan of Derrick May that at one point enjoyed listening to Exit Planet Dust? - Original Message From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 9:29:05 AM Subject: Re: (313) Justice On 6/28/07, Rob G [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: well, yes but... I was being heavy handedly sarcastic. but now you bring money into it... my whole problem is that these guys that i dont like are taking money, exposure, popularity, and credit from the people who really deserve it. which is part of the reason im so angry about it. if the deserving people get hooked up with all of that, someone might actually be doing something right. but one remix isnt enough! tom Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink QA. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396545367
Re: (313) Justice
On 6/28/07, Rob G [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hear you about that problem, and again, this is part and parcel to the appropriation issue. but - again, personal anecdote here - I've purchased a lot of baltimore club 12s at this point, but a few years back I'd never heard of it. What exposed me to it? (I live on the west coast, b.t.w.) the Hollertronix mix: Never Scared. Before I had garnered an appreciation for Detroit techno... what stuff did I come across that piqued my interested in electronic music in general? Honestly I'm embarrassed to name the acts but, all cross-over stuff where they were appropriating. Same with the route I took in my long winding education of hip hop culture. Believe me, my experience in appreciating African-American music culture as a whole has given me DEEP pause in considering the Elvis effect. Is that white guilt? I'm loath to think so. I'm just grateful - whatever the path taken - that I've been exposed to some phenomenal music and culture that I love. SO: when I we have a modern rock station out here that will play hip hop every once and a while, but when they do... IT'S THE BEASTIE BOYS! yeah, I wince a little... its kinda messed up no doubt. but then, who knows, maybe there were be some people that get exposed to it, and then that's just a starting point for a whole world that's opened up. I wonder: could I be the only fan of Derrick May that at one point enjoyed listening to Exit Planet Dust? sure, people can get involved with good music from entry level stuff, but how many more just stay into nonsense? if 10,000 people in the US were chem bros fans, how many of them went on to become techno or house fans vs how many went on to become trance and progressive fans? i think its always best to give people the good stuff and let them decide from that. people are inherently lazy, and especially when its hard to find good info about something as underground as club music or the like out there, it makes it increasingly unlikely that people will go from liking the corny stuff to supporting the good stuff. tom
Re: (313) Justice
i used to play the LOA/PragaKhan/RaveTilDawn stuff in like 93 because i didn't know any better (i was 13). then my uncle introduced me to Front242 which led to the Waxtrax Artificial Intelligence Comps and (most importantly) the Trance Atlantic comp. it was all over after that. I never played any of the belgian rave stuff again (except when i'm feeling nostalgic). I wonder: could I be the only fan of Derrick May that at one point enjoyed listening to Exit Planet Dust? - Original Message From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 9:29:05 AM Subject: Re: (313) Justice On 6/28/07, Rob G [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: well, yes but... I was being heavy handedly sarcastic. but now you bring money into it... my whole problem is that these guys that i dont like are taking money, exposure, popularity, and credit from the people who really deserve it. which is part of the reason im so angry about it. if the deserving people get hooked up with all of that, someone might actually be doing something right. but one remix isnt enough! tom Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink QA. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396545367
Re: (313) Justice
fine but my point was in terms of money - I would have not sent what I did into the hands of DJ Technics, Rod Lee, etc if it wasn't for the Hollertronix mix that put their stuff in my ears. those guys got paid more money then that might have if it weren't for the youngsters propagation of it. but then, maybe that mix made hollertronix more dough than the DJs saw right? well that's a classic debate about djs vs producers right there anyway. - Original Message sure, people can get involved with good music from entry level stuff, but how many more just stay into nonsense? if 10,000 people in the US were chem bros fans, how many of them went on to become techno or house fans vs how many went on to become trance and progressive fans? i think its always best to give people the good stuff and let them decide from that. people are inherently lazy, and especially when its hard to find good info about something as underground as club music or the like out there, it makes it increasingly unlikely that people will go from liking the corny stuff to supporting the good stuff. Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. http://new.toolbar.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/index.php
Re: (313) Justice finale??
Personally, I'm waiting for the J.T./Kooky Scientist/Tomm WWF steel-cage mud wrestling deathmatch. tom and i are friends, there's no animosity...we just like to argue about social/cultural bs, we're probably on the same page anyways. P.S. As for all the Justice/Spank Rock/etc. discussion - I thought this was the (313) Detroit Techno list, not the Whatever Music The (313) Listmembers Feel Like Discussing At The Moment list?!? i think all the issues we've been talking about relate equally as much to detroit techno, no? just replace spank rock with ritchie hawtin, technics with mike banks, and bmore with detroit, et voila
Re: (313) Justice finale??
i think all the issues we've been talking about relate equally as much to detroit techno, no? just replace spank rock with ritchie hawtin, technics with mike banks, and bmore with detroit, et voila thanx for that. in my last post I was tempted to mention Disco D and DJ Assault to that effect as well. Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos more. http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC
Re: (313) Justice
On 6/28/07, J.T. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: wait, we're talking about labels now? well, mo'wax were just putting out music they liked. i know those guys, i worked with them too remember. but thats the thing, they approached it like fans of the music, not someone trying to get paid by putting out least common denominator music. it should also be noted dj assault was the hype then, coming off coverage in rolling stone and spin etc, and was an obvious choice with little competition. the choice *should* be obvious! just like spank rock was an obvious choice for ninja tune because they were selling out shows everywhere and had some hype, and because ninja tune dug their music. maybe technics should have sent them a demo. obviously i dont know for sure, but my guess is that assault and magic mike werent shipping demos around to mo wax. i mean, club music is pretty obscure, but if i could find out about it in pittsburgh years and years ago, im sure it wouldnt have been that hard for anyone else on any other label to do so as well. but again, there isnt money in that kind of decision. i sure wish they'd put out technics too, but it's not spank's fault they don't, and technics has got his stuff worked out anyways. so why all the drama and bitterness and why are you directing it where you are? everyone is guilty here, the publicists who write this nonsense, the label and artists for pushing this baltimore connection, the artists themselves for allowing the label to market them as they have, and even moreso to the people that i think should know better, who have seen this kind of thing happen before and should be able to tell when its happening again. what is this big conspiracy you think has occurred, what are the motives for pushing spank and not technics? the motive is selling watered down product to white hipsters because the real image is not something that is easy to sell. there's loads of bad music out there, is it the crappy artists' fault when it miraculously becomes popular, or their label's for picking it up and torturing the world with it and embarking on a marketing campaign etc etc? everyone is to blame. everyone's motivation is to make easy $$$, not to push art. and they do it at any expense to real art and culture. and i find it deplorable. detroit had it's own sub-culture yes, they shouldn't have come along and appropriated chicago's. and chicago shouldn't have appropriated new york's. music institute was just a wannabe music box was just a wannabe paradise garage but these were all part of a larger common culture, the underground black and/or gay culture in inner cities in the US. its the same way that club and ghetto tech and booty house and miami bass are all part of the same family despite having slightly different local DNA. that is a ridiculous statement. culture can't be narrowly defined, nor can appropriation. you can say virtually everything is appropriation. there is no such thing as originality in the objective sense. no, people live a culture and their own personalities and experiences allow them to help it move beyond its previous borders. its all a very continuous flow. in the case of appropriation, the flow is discontinuous. besides, appropriation is a scary word, very negative connotations, but it's not as sinister as all that necessarily. white radio appropriated the jive talk style of black radio, but you could argue that helped bring black culture further into the mainstream and promoted racial equality. it had bad effects, it had good effects, like lots of things do.. but at this point, we've seen this all before. why bother going through this roundabout process that serves no one but the established music industry when its so easy to get straight to the real stuff? do white people really need a buffer zone to be able to appreciate black culture? no, i'm saying all your points about culture and realness and blah blah blah have nothing to do with whether their music is sonically pleasing to you or not. there are factors other than your ears affecting your opinion. those other things have their place, but not in your ears. but my previous knowledge of music makes me hear new stuff like this and say this is not really new, this is not interesting. why is this being hyped up? and then i start to answer those questions and i arrive at answers. then why do you keep talking about how they are fronting and not down and not real, and comparing to who is real, and etc etc? what about the SOUNDS??? just say they use crappy samples and you don't like their voices. the rest is noise when it comes to talking about music. if music was listened to and sold in complete isolation, that would be the easy way to critique something. unfortunately, theres a whole lifestyle industry out there that is part of the music that also needs (pretty much constant) critiquing. and in this day and age, that industry and the music and marketing all go
Re: (313) Justice finale??
On 6/28/07, J.T. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i think all the issues we've been talking about relate equally as much to detroit techno, no? just replace spank rock with ritchie hawtin, technics with mike banks, and bmore with detroit, et voila it is true, this is a constant problem in all kinds of music scenes built around black american music! tom
Re: (313) Justice
and it's still not really about bmore. they are bringing attention to the music. they shouldn't? not in this disingenuous manner. Thomas, I really really hear you on a lot of what you are saying in your email, and yes, there's a twisted element at the core of American pop culture where we've seen it over and over and over again. but I guess I just don't get what *would* be a genuine way of calling attention to the music? (in contrast to this disingenuous manner). Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. http://farechase.yahoo.com/
Re: (313) Justice
but I guess I just don't get what *would* be a genuine way of calling attention to the music? (in contrast to this disingenuous manner). well put..i agree with most of what tom is saying at some level, but it's impossibly idealistic and entirely speculative. idealism is vital tho. but yeah. who knows exactly what would happen if somehow someway the crazy real club stuff got mainstream coverage, but i highly doubt it would take off like spank rock, there's no foundation for it too. the foundation ahs to be built sometime somewhere though if something like that is ever going to happen. i remember how excited i was to see articles in rolling stone and spin some years back about the belleville 3, thinking yes, the rest of the world is finally going to wake up to this brilliant music and real dance music will become a viable part of the music industry!bzzt! but then again, it depends on your pov. playlists from ibiza have gotten better, and i'm certainly happier to see kompakt inhabiting the same space moonshine and company used to. it could be better, maybe, but it could also be much worse. something is usually better than nothing, and that goes for spank's mis-credit as bmore club as well
Re: (313) MOS // Aroy Dee website
On Thu, Jun 28, 2007 at 10:40:48AM -0400, J.T. wrote: awesome to see the architectural pictures and sketches (aroy is an archytech fyi), and dammmn that record shelf he made is CLASS (see interviews mixes page) Yep, interesting to see that Sao Paulo is an inspiration as well... It looks that there are many concrete junkies in the music business. G -- Guilherme Menegon Arantes, PhD São Paulo, Brasil __
