Re: [313] Postmodern / Futurismo
You're getting ahead of me. Don't forget Jeff Mills got his start in an Industrial band (the name of which escapes me at the moment), and Fred Gianelli used to be part of Genisis P-Orridge's Psychic TV before recording for Plus 8 e Oliver Barkovic wrote: that came 60 years later (and Industrial begat Detroit Techno: thereby staying On Topic) Whoa now... lets not forget its George Clinton meets Kraftwerk in an elevator not George Clinton meets Nine Inch Nails in an elevator Ollie
Re: [313] Postmodern / Futurismo
From: Elliot Taub [EMAIL PROTECTED] You're getting ahead of me. Don't forget Jeff Mills got his start in an Industrial band (the name of which escapes me at the moment... -- Final Cut And before we have this argument--again--I think the last few hundred times we had it we concluded that techno draws its inspiration from multiple and disparate sources; inluding disco, Euro pop, jazz, industrial, funk, et cetera. As to which has had the most influence, I can't imagine us ever reaching agreement on that... Cheers Rol Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: [313] Postmodern / Futurismo
Cajmere said: Let Me Be. Well, it's a stretch... np: De La Soul - I am I be, by way of complete and total coincidince, or synchronicity --- James Bucknell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: sartre said: to do is to be plato said: to be is to do marshall jefferson said: do da do Elliot Taub [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 07/11/2000 04:15:43 PM Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org 313@hyperreal.org cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (bcc: James Bucknell/Magazines/Hearst) Subject: [313] Postmodern / Futurismo I would say there could be no discussion of music and philosophy without mentioning the Futurists; probably the only school of philosophical thought that espoused a musical form. The Futurist Symphonies of cars honking, scraping steel and construction noise had an obvious impact on the Industrial music that came 60 years later (and Industrial begat Detroit Techno: thereby staying On Topic) But speaking of contemporary continental philosophers, I'd say Markus Pop probably does a more interesting and successful critique of Deluze's Nomadology in a musical form than (for instance) DJ Spooky ever did. I don't think Pop concerns himself with philosophical baggage in terms of making his music, though: I think his approach is more of a process-oriented one (which in an of itself is a Deluzean manner of creating things like folds) but not one that's directly referencing any philosophy. Whatever. I want to press a button and hear a beat. e ps: every department has its own focus. The Architecture program I was a part of years ago worked within a feminist philosophical umbrella (though not everybody in the program subscribed to that viewpoint). It sounds odd until you think that a society that could come up with sayings like a woman's place is in the home must use sexuality as some kind of determining factor in architectural forms and identities. Phonopsia wrote: Can anyone think of contemporary artists who use postmodern thought to good effect in their music today? Skinny Puppy did it well once and you could make the argument that Stereolab is messing around with French philosophy. I'm having trouble thinking of many other artists who do it well, or who actually have any of the philosophical background to understand the concepts beneath the surface. It's been my experience that a lot of people skip straight to the recent thought (I tried it and realized I should probably go back and get the background before plungeing in), and miss a whole lot of philosophical/psychological/anthropological history in the process. I've also noticed that at least at the University of Iowa, the philosophy department seems to avoid postmodern continental thought focusing on contemporary Anglo-American philosophy, whereas most criticism programs skip the philosophy and head straight into the newer stuff. Probably a huge factor... Tristan == PHONOPSIA[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Lounge/5102 FrogboyMCI on AOL Instant Messenger New Album, Qu ébécois, online now. -Original Message- From: Lester Kenyatta Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313 Detroit 313@hyperreal.org Date: Monday, July 10, 2000 5:52 PM Subject: Re: [313] DJ Spooky/Dave Clarke On Mon, 10 Jul 2000, Cyclone Wehner wrote: I've seen him and he was OK - he did this live double-bass thing as well, not a great DJ, but the concept was interesting. Spooky doesn't see himself as mainstream at all, in fact he gets a lot of flack for his intellectual approach from the NY establishment. He sees it like, why can't an African-American man be an intellectual, a conceptualist, I don't want to do what the mainstream deems to be 'Black music' like gangsta rap or whatever. He is big on contemporary French philosophy (more influential than you'd think) and sees himself as intervening in those discourses. I think this is how he sees himself. But in discussions with him in another email forum (dedicated to the idea of afrofuturism) I've come to the conclusion that he's running the DJ equivalent of a Proudhon scam. Proudhon was a French philosopher cum activist who, when with philosophers would tout his activist credentials, and when with activists would tout his philosophy credentials. But Karl Marx peeped that he was actually NEITHER--his thoughts weren't that deep, and he simply wasn't doing any activist work, just faking it. I suspect that when he's with DJ's what he's really trying to claim is his reading of Marcuse, or Foucault, or even Crusebut when he's with intellectuals, he's trying to claim his status as a DJ. But when I've tried to talk to him about the intellectual end...his ideas are shallow at best. He ends up losing
Re: [313] Postmodern / Futurismo
that came 60 years later (and Industrial begat Detroit Techno: thereby staying On Topic) Whoa now... lets not forget its George Clinton meets Kraftwerk in an elevator not George Clinton meets Nine Inch Nails in an elevator Ollie I'll keep this simple. Kraftwerk are one of the original industrial music groups (Metal on Metal.) Nine Inch Nails is a pop band. Thankya. Josh phase 10 Saturday nights, midnight to 3. WCBN-FM 88.3, Ann Arbor, MI
Re: [313] Postmodern / Futurismo
It has also been reported that Mills was very influenced by seeing Belgian Industial band front 242 when they played detroit (particularly their paramilitary stage gear) Like so many other great insights i believe the source for this was 'Techno Rebels' By Dan Sicko which I can not reccomend engough (Dan definately used to be on the 313 but I'm not sure if he still is - anyone?) neil On Wed, 12 Jul 2000, rol leider wrote: From: Elliot Taub [EMAIL PROTECTED] You're getting ahead of me. Don't forget Jeff Mills got his start in an Industrial band (the name of which escapes me at the moment... -- Final Cut And before we have this argument--again--I think the last few hundred times we had it we concluded that techno draws its inspiration from multiple and disparate sources; inluding disco, Euro pop, jazz, industrial, funk, et cetera. As to which has had the most influence, I can't imagine us ever reaching agreement on that... Cheers Rol Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Postmodern / Futurismo
Any Final Cut Audio Samples on the Net? I'd be interested in actually hearing the stuff... -matt on 7/11/00 7:21 PM, rol leider at [EMAIL PROTECTED] said this: From: Elliot Taub [EMAIL PROTECTED] You're getting ahead of me. Don't forget Jeff Mills got his start in an Industrial band (the name of which escapes me at the moment... -- Final Cut
Re: [313] Postmodern / Futurismo
Sinatra said: Doo bee doo bee doo Shaggy said: Scooby DOO! Where are You?! From: tristan watkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: James Bucknell [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: 313@hyperreal.org 313@hyperreal.org, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [313] Postmodern / Futurismo Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 15:31:06 -0700 (PDT) Cajmere said: Let Me Be. Well, it's a stretch... np: De La Soul - I am I be, by way of complete and total coincidince, or synchronicity --- James Bucknell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: sartre said: to do is to be plato said: to be is to do marshall jefferson said: do da do Elliot Taub [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 07/11/2000 04:15:43 PM Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org 313@hyperreal.org cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (bcc: James Bucknell/Magazines/Hearst) Subject: [313] Postmodern / Futurismo I would say there could be no discussion of music and philosophy without mentioning the Futurists; probably the only school of philosophical thought that espoused a musical form. The Futurist Symphonies of cars honking, scraping steel and construction noise had an obvious impact on the Industrial music that came 60 years later (and Industrial begat Detroit Techno: thereby staying On Topic) But speaking of contemporary continental philosophers, I'd say Markus Pop probably does a more interesting and successful critique of Deluze's Nomadology in a musical form than (for instance) DJ Spooky ever did. I don't think Pop concerns himself with philosophical baggage in terms of making his music, though: I think his approach is more of a process-oriented one (which in an of itself is a Deluzean manner of creating things like folds) but not one that's directly referencing any philosophy. Whatever. I want to press a button and hear a beat. e ps: every department has its own focus. The Architecture program I was a part of years ago worked within a feminist philosophical umbrella (though not everybody in the program subscribed to that viewpoint). It sounds odd until you think that a society that could come up with sayings like a woman's place is in the home must use sexuality as some kind of determining factor in architectural forms and identities. Phonopsia wrote: Can anyone think of contemporary artists who use postmodern thought to good effect in their music today? Skinny Puppy did it well once and you could make the argument that Stereolab is messing around with French philosophy. I'm having trouble thinking of many other artists who do it well, or who actually have any of the philosophical background to understand the concepts beneath the surface. It's been my experience that a lot of people skip straight to the recent thought (I tried it and realized I should probably go back and get the background before plungeing in), and miss a whole lot of philosophical/psychological/anthropological history in the process. I've also noticed that at least at the University of Iowa, the philosophy department seems to avoid postmodern continental thought focusing on contemporary Anglo-American philosophy, whereas most criticism programs skip the philosophy and head straight into the newer stuff. Probably a huge factor... Tristan == PHONOPSIA[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Lounge/5102 FrogboyMCI on AOL Instant Messenger New Album, Qu ébécois, online now. -Original Message- From: Lester Kenyatta Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313 Detroit 313@hyperreal.org Date: Monday, July 10, 2000 5:52 PM Subject: Re: [313] DJ Spooky/Dave Clarke On Mon, 10 Jul 2000, Cyclone Wehner wrote: I've seen him and he was OK - he did this live double-bass thing as well, not a great DJ, but the concept was interesting. Spooky doesn't see himself as mainstream at all, in fact he gets a lot of flack for his intellectual approach from the NY establishment. He sees it like, why can't an African-American man be an intellectual, a conceptualist, I don't want to do what the mainstream deems to be 'Black music' like gangsta rap or whatever. He is big on contemporary French philosophy (more influential than you'd think) and sees himself as intervening in those discourses. I think this is how he sees himself. But in discussions with him in another email forum (dedicated to the idea of afrofuturism) I've come to the conclusion that he's running the DJ equivalent of a Proudhon scam. Proudhon was a French philosopher cum activist who, when with philosophers would tout his activist credentials, and when with activists would tout his philosophy credentials. But Karl Marx peeped that he was actually NEITHER--his thoughts weren't that deep, and he simply wasn't doing any activist work, just faking it. I suspect that when he's with DJ's
Re: [313] Postmodern / Futurismo
Re: Sorry but it's so far off 313 topic I'll keep this simple. Kraftwerk are one of the original industrial music groups (Metal on Metal.) Nine Inch Nails is a pop band. When I first heard NIN's Head like a Hole I thought he was a complete copycat of Jim Thirwell's Scraping Feotus Off the Wheel project, only much lighter. Let's talk Nihilist thought shall we? Fred Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: [313] Postmodern / Futurismo
God said: I Am From: FRED MCMURRY [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Postmodern / Futurismo Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:39:28 PDT Sinatra said: Doo bee doo bee doo Shaggy said: Scooby DOO! Where are You?! From: tristan watkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: James Bucknell [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: 313@hyperreal.org 313@hyperreal.org, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [313] Postmodern / Futurismo Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 15:31:06 -0700 (PDT) Cajmere said: Let Me Be. Well, it's a stretch... np: De La Soul - I am I be, by way of complete and total coincidince, or synchronicity --- James Bucknell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: sartre said: to do is to be plato said: to be is to do marshall jefferson said: do da do Elliot Taub [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 07/11/2000 04:15:43 PM Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org 313@hyperreal.org cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (bcc: James Bucknell/Magazines/Hearst) Subject: [313] Postmodern / Futurismo I would say there could be no discussion of music and philosophy without mentioning the Futurists; probably the only school of philosophical thought that espoused a musical form. The Futurist Symphonies of cars honking, scraping steel and construction noise had an obvious impact on the Industrial music that came 60 years later (and Industrial begat Detroit Techno: thereby staying On Topic) But speaking of contemporary continental philosophers, I'd say Markus Pop probably does a more interesting and successful critique of Deluze's Nomadology in a musical form than (for instance) DJ Spooky ever did. I don't think Pop concerns himself with philosophical baggage in terms of making his music, though: I think his approach is more of a process-oriented one (which in an of itself is a Deluzean manner of creating things like folds) but not one that's directly referencing any philosophy. Whatever. I want to press a button and hear a beat. e ps: every department has its own focus. The Architecture program I was a part of years ago worked within a feminist philosophical umbrella (though not everybody in the program subscribed to that viewpoint). It sounds odd until you think that a society that could come up with sayings like a woman's place is in the home must use sexuality as some kind of determining factor in architectural forms and identities. Phonopsia wrote: Can anyone think of contemporary artists who use postmodern thought to good effect in their music today? Skinny Puppy did it well once and you could make the argument that Stereolab is messing around with French philosophy. I'm having trouble thinking of many other artists who do it well, or who actually have any of the philosophical background to understand the concepts beneath the surface. It's been my experience that a lot of people skip straight to the recent thought (I tried it and realized I should probably go back and get the background before plungeing in), and miss a whole lot of philosophical/psychological/anthropological history in the process. I've also noticed that at least at the University of Iowa, the philosophy department seems to avoid postmodern continental thought focusing on contemporary Anglo-American philosophy, whereas most criticism programs skip the philosophy and head straight into the newer stuff. Probably a huge factor... Tristan == PHONOPSIA[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Lounge/5102 FrogboyMCI on AOL Instant Messenger New Album, Qu ébécois, online now. -Original Message- From: Lester Kenyatta Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313 Detroit 313@hyperreal.org Date: Monday, July 10, 2000 5:52 PM Subject: Re: [313] DJ Spooky/Dave Clarke On Mon, 10 Jul 2000, Cyclone Wehner wrote: I've seen him and he was OK - he did this live double-bass thing as well, not a great DJ, but the concept was interesting. Spooky doesn't see himself as mainstream at all, in fact he gets a lot of flack for his intellectual approach from the NY establishment. He sees it like, why can't an African-American man be an intellectual, a conceptualist, I don't want to do what the mainstream deems to be 'Black music' like gangsta rap or whatever. He is big on contemporary French philosophy (more influential than you'd think) and sees himself as intervening in those discourses. I think this is how he sees himself. But in discussions with him in another email forum (dedicated to the idea of afrofuturism) I've come to the conclusion that he's running the DJ equivalent of a Proudhon scam. Proudhon was a French philosopher cum activist who, when with philosophers would tout his activist credentials, and when with activists would tout his philosophy credentials. But Karl Marx
Re: [313] Postmodern / Futurismo
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], tristan watkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] messed around with filters and compression to make the sounds now known as: Cajmere said: Let Me Be. He also said I'm horny ;) De La Soul - I am I be sartre said: to do is to be plato said: to be is to do marshall jefferson said: do da do TTFN, -- Tom Lawton
Re: [313] Postmodern / Futurismo
that came 60 years later (and Industrial begat Detroit Techno: thereby staying On Topic) Whoa now... lets not forget its George Clinton meets Kraftwerk in an elevator not George Clinton meets Nine Inch Nails in an elevator Ollie From: Elliot Taub [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org 313@hyperreal.org CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [313] Postmodern / Futurismo Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 13:15:43 -0700 I would say there could be no discussion of music and philosophy without mentioning the Futurists; probably the only school of philosophical thought that espoused a musical form. The Futurist Symphonies of cars honking, scraping steel and construction noise had an obvious impact on the Industrial music that came 60 years later (and Industrial begat Detroit Techno: thereby staying On Topic) But speaking of contemporary continental philosophers, I'd say Markus Pop probably does a more interesting and successful critique of Deluze's Nomadology in a musical form than (for instance) DJ Spooky ever did. I don't think Pop concerns himself with philosophical baggage in terms of making his music, though: I think his approach is more of a process-oriented one (which in an of itself is a Deluzean manner of creating things like folds) but not one that's directly referencing any philosophy. Whatever. I want to press a button and hear a beat. e ps: every department has its own focus. The Architecture program I was a part of years ago worked within a feminist philosophical umbrella (though not everybody in the program subscribed to that viewpoint). It sounds odd until you think that a society that could come up with sayings like a woman's place is in the home must use sexuality as some kind of determining factor in architectural forms and identities. Phonopsia wrote: Can anyone think of contemporary artists who use postmodern thought to good effect in their music today? Skinny Puppy did it well once and you could make the argument that Stereolab is messing around with French philosophy. I'm having trouble thinking of many other artists who do it well, or who actually have any of the philosophical background to understand the concepts beneath the surface. It's been my experience that a lot of people skip straight to the recent thought (I tried it and realized I should probably go back and get the background before plungeing in), and miss a whole lot of philosophical/psychological/anthropological history in the process. I've also noticed that at least at the University of Iowa, the philosophy department seems to avoid postmodern continental thought focusing on contemporary Anglo-American philosophy, whereas most criticism programs skip the philosophy and head straight into the newer stuff. Probably a huge factor... Tristan == PHONOPSIA[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Lounge/5102 FrogboyMCI on AOL Instant Messenger New Album, Québécois, online now. -Original Message- From: Lester Kenyatta Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313 Detroit 313@hyperreal.org Date: Monday, July 10, 2000 5:52 PM Subject: Re: [313] DJ Spooky/Dave Clarke On Mon, 10 Jul 2000, Cyclone Wehner wrote: I've seen him and he was OK - he did this live double-bass thing as well, not a great DJ, but the concept was interesting. Spooky doesn't see himself as mainstream at all, in fact he gets a lot of flack for his intellectual approach from the NY establishment. He sees it like, why can't an African-American man be an intellectual, a conceptualist, I don't want to do what the mainstream deems to be 'Black music' like gangsta rap or whatever. He is big on contemporary French philosophy (more influential than you'd think) and sees himself as intervening in those discourses. I think this is how he sees himself. But in discussions with him in another email forum (dedicated to the idea of afrofuturism) I've come to the conclusion that he's running the DJ equivalent of a Proudhon scam. Proudhon was a French philosopher cum activist who, when with philosophers would tout his activist credentials, and when with activists would tout his philosophy credentials. But Karl Marx peeped that he was actually NEITHER--his thoughts weren't that deep, and he simply wasn't doing any activist work, just faking it. I suspect that when he's with DJ's what he's really trying to claim is his reading of Marcuse, or Foucault, or even Crusebut when he's with intellectuals, he's trying to claim his status as a DJ. But when I've tried to talk to him about the intellectual end...his ideas are shallow at best. He ends up losing in the long run because in the end his body of work won't be worth noting in either categorybut in the short run he gets PAID. peace lks
