Re: (313) Jeff Milestone Mills
I think that's a bit hard maybe. Jeff Mills was raised in Detroit, he probably spent his first 20 years there, and just because he doesn't play there often doesn't mean he doesn't visit, or have family there. His influence is pervasive in Detroit. Stacey Pullen was saying that some might say his Fabric CD is 'not Detroit' because there is but one track by a Detroit artist (in this case Moodymann) but the point is he is from Detroit, in Detroit, it's his aesthetic. -- From: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) Jeff Milestone Mills Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 12:50 PM why did he film it in detroit? he's not in detroit anymore, he doesnt play in detroit anymore. what the hell does jeff mills know about detroit? the the wizard era of detroit is long gone, and mostly for the better. it was a bad city with good music then, and now its a better city with better music IMO. _j - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org; Ploegmakers, Joost [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Katrin Richter [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 7:03 PM Subject: RE: (313) Jeff Milestone Mills Yussel, I think you've missed the point. It's a play on the idea of exhibitionism and the idea that you get to see inside of him - he's putting himself on display. If you look at the pictures on the CD/EVE a bit closer you'll see that the image isn't some wax sculpture - it's actually Jeff Mills. He hasn't entombed his image in a museum type display case at all- it's a store front window. Check out what is going to be on the DVD and you might begin to understand why it's called Exhibitionist and why placing himself in a store display window is a decent graphic representation of the project. In addition - the DVD was filmed in Detroit - not Germany or anywhere else that he could have done it. It doesn't make me ill at all - I think it's fantastic and the DVD sounds brilliant. Can't wait to get my paws on it. MEK [EMAIL PROTECTED] et To: Ploegmakers, Joost [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Katrin Richter [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org 01/16/04 05:04 PMSubject: RE: (313) Jeff Milestone Mills hope this doesn't make you more ill (iller?) http://sonar.es/portal/eng/home.cfm seems as though Katrin's estimation was dead on as Mr. Mills has now entombed his image in a museum type display case. I gotta say- on the one hand I don't agree with this particular direction for techno. Nor do I agree that Mills is the right person to take it in this direction (given the state of his current live performances) BUT, I do feel a bit more respect knowing that his actions (misguided or not) do have a definate purpose, rather than just egocentric flights of fancy. but that still doesn't explain why he refuse to let the sound guy keep him from distorting bassbins. On Fri, 16 Jan 2004, Ploegmakers, Joost wrote: Well, I never thought this was possible, but reading your mail just made me physically sick. I could comment on every single sentence, but I won't. I'm just too upset. If what you are writing are actually truly the things that are going on in Mr. Mills mind, I will never want anything to do with him ever again. What an arrogant elitist artsy fartsy wannabe prick! I sincerely hope Jeff übermensch Mills will come to his senses soon enough. Or that this is all not true of course. Joost -Original Message- From: Katrin Richter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: donderdag 15 januari 2004 17:04 To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: (313) Jeff Milestone Mills When I met Jeff, he was a very nice caring person who was deeply concerned about the direction Techno was taking in Germany (!). He felt that he and Dimitri Hegemann from Tresor did a bad job back in the early Nineties because he pleaded guilty for conditioning people to consume Techno in dark boxes full of fog and strobes and didn't consider making it nicer for girls (which is, in his opinion, the reason why there are not so many girls embracing Techno)... We had a really long discussion and he admitted that he sometimes feels really removed from his audience. He said he'd never consume drugs because he would hate to put his company - and the people working for him - at risk... I don't think he is greedy... I think he is striving to be a real artist, sound- and concept-wise, that is accepted by educated people. This is, in my opinion, the reason, why he tries to employ these pseudo-intellectual, pseudo-philosophical thoughts on his sleeves written in bad English (which of course, are more expensive to make). Although he has done Metropolis and a lot of groundbreaking other projects, he is not really really accepted
Re: (313) Jeff Milestone Mills
I'm really surprised at the full-on responses to this post by Katrin. Mills may have a conceptual approach but that doesn't equate to being elitist, I think he's fascinated with the theoretical possibilities of techno - he's to techno what ?uestlove is to hip-hop. It's not like either are anti-party. He is one of the most gracious people in the business, and modest to a fault. He certainly doesn't look down on anyone. If anything he is incredibly relativistic. So he's ambivalent about the proliferation of drugs in the scene - so is Derrick May, so is Paul Van Dyk, Armin Van Buuren, Ferry Corsten, all for different reasons. Is that such a bad thing? It's not like he's preaching an evangelical message, 'do not take drugs to my music'. Many of those in the scene who don't partake in the drug culture are ambivalent about it. I am certainly glad *someone cares* about the absence of women in the techno (and dance) scene - even though on a business level it would be great to see women supporting each other, not, as in some cases, undermining them, as that is actually the biggest barrier we face. ;) When I met Jeff, he was a very nice caring person who was deeply concerned about the direction Techno was taking in Germany (!). He felt that he and Dimitri Hegemann from Tresor did a bad job back in the early Nineties because he pleaded guilty for conditioning people to consume Techno in dark boxes full of fog and strobes and didn't consider making it nicer for girls (which is, in his opinion, the reason why there are not so many girls embracing Techno)... We had a really long discussion and he admitted that he sometimes feels really removed from his audience. He said he'd never consume drugs because he would hate to put his company - and the people working for him - at risk... I don't think he is greedy... I think he is striving to be a real artist, sound- and concept-wise, that is accepted by educated people. This is, in my opinion, the reason, why he tries to employ these pseudo-intellectual, pseudo-philosophical thoughts on his sleeves written in bad English (which of course, are more expensive to make). Although he has done Metropolis and a lot of groundbreaking other projects, he is not really really accepted in the realms of high art, especially not in North America where a Techno artist would never reach the status of social acceptance he longs for. In Europe and Japan, people roll out the red carpet... here, he is the person who single-handedly established Techno in Berlin (well, at least that's what Dimi and Jeff both want to believe - themselves - and which is impossible to prove or disprove). I guess the things I just mentioned are integral parts of his personality and that might explain why he tries to make his label a sought-after commodity rather than being down with the locals. Drug-mongering simple minds are just not his thang as he was working hard enough to transcend this stage of low human existance and I think he likes to see himself as a man of class and style - certainly the way he dresses and the hotels he chooses. Okay, that was the psychological analysis from da Kat :) who sat on the mat and is a big fan of Jeff as a human. I wouldn't buy See The Light but I certainly would buy the flip flips in his shop (and even the Axis beach towel) if I had the money spare. I love supporting people... -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Donnerstag, 15. Januar 2004 16:03 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Betreff: Re: (313) axis But what if he and others in his position could take it further than that! Galvanize this community through festivals (lukewarm overall), seminars, clubs (gasp!), and the development of new players in the game. Uh, yeah - he does all of this. It's called Musik und Machine. http://www.musikundmaschine.com/index_flash.html not many other individual artists have done this so I think Jeff is actually on the forefront of doing exactly what you're asking him to do. MEK
RE: (313) Jeff Milestone Mills
Just a small point, but the display case pic is in Barcelona, and indeed, he was seeking what kind of reaction he would get from normal passers by from seeing a man in a shop windon doing all that (what may be completely alien to some) stuff. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 17 January 2004 12:04 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org; Ploegmakers, Joost; Katrin Richter Subject: RE: (313) Jeff Milestone Mills Yussel, I think you've missed the point. It's a play on the idea of exhibitionism and the idea that you get to see inside of him - he's putting himself on display. If you look at the pictures on the CD/EVE a bit closer you'll see that the image isn't some wax sculpture - it's actually Jeff Mills. He hasn't entombed his image in a museum type display case at all- it's a store front window. Check out what is going to be on the DVD and you might begin to understand why it's called Exhibitionist and why placing himself in a store display window is a decent graphic representation of the project. In addition - the DVD was filmed in Detroit - not Germany or anywhere else that he could have done it. It doesn't make me ill at all - I think it's fantastic and the DVD sounds brilliant. Can't wait to get my paws on it. MEK [EMAIL PROTECTED] et To: Ploegmakers, Joost [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Katrin Richter [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org 01/16/04 05:04 PMSubject: RE: (313) Jeff Milestone Mills hope this doesn't make you more ill (iller?) http://sonar.es/portal/eng/home.cfm seems as though Katrin's estimation was dead on as Mr. Mills has now entombed his image in a museum type display case. I gotta say- on the one hand I don't agree with this particular direction for techno. Nor do I agree that Mills is the right person to take it in this direction (given the state of his current live performances) BUT, I do feel a bit more respect knowing that his actions (misguided or not) do have a definate purpose, rather than just egocentric flights of fancy. but that still doesn't explain why he refuse to let the sound guy keep him from distorting bassbins. On Fri, 16 Jan 2004, Ploegmakers, Joost wrote: Well, I never thought this was possible, but reading your mail just made me physically sick. I could comment on every single sentence, but I won't. I'm just too upset. If what you are writing are actually truly the things that are going on in Mr. Mills mind, I will never want anything to do with him ever again. What an arrogant elitist artsy fartsy wannabe prick! I sincerely hope Jeff übermensch Mills will come to his senses soon enough. Or that this is all not true of course. Joost -Original Message- From: Katrin Richter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: donderdag 15 januari 2004 17:04 To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: (313) Jeff Milestone Mills When I met Jeff, he was a very nice caring person who was deeply concerned about the direction Techno was taking in Germany (!). He felt that he and Dimitri Hegemann from Tresor did a bad job back in the early Nineties because he pleaded guilty for conditioning people to consume Techno in dark boxes full of fog and strobes and didn't consider making it nicer for girls (which is, in his opinion, the reason why there are not so many girls embracing Techno)... We had a really long discussion and he admitted that he sometimes feels really removed from his audience. He said he'd never consume drugs because he would hate to put his company - and the people working for him - at risk... I don't think he is greedy... I think he is striving to be a real artist, sound- and concept-wise, that is accepted by educated people. This is, in my opinion, the reason, why he tries to employ these pseudo-intellectual, pseudo-philosophical thoughts on his sleeves written in bad English (which of course, are more expensive to make). Although he has done Metropolis and a lot of groundbreaking other projects, he is not really really accepted in the realms of high art, especially not in North America where a Techno artist would never reach the status of social acceptance he longs for. In Europe and Japan, people roll out the red carpet... here, he is the person who single-handedly established Techno in Berlin (well, at least that's what Dimi and Jeff both want to believe - themselves - and which is impossible to prove or disprove). I guess the things I just mentioned are integral parts of his personality and that might explain why he tries to make his label a sought-after commodity rather than being down with the locals. Drug-mongering simple minds are just not his thang as he was working hard
RE: (313) Jeff Milestone Mills
Yussel, I think you've missed the point. It's a play on the idea of exhibitionism and the idea that you get to see inside of him - he's putting himself on display. If you look at the pictures on the CD/EVE a bit closer you'll see that the image isn't some wax sculpture - it's actually Jeff Mills. He hasn't entombed his image in a museum type display case at all- it's a store front window. Check out what is going to be on the DVD and you might begin to understand why it's called Exhibitionist and why placing himself in a store display window is a decent graphic representation of the project. In addition - the DVD was filmed in Detroit - not Germany or anywhere else that he could have done it. It doesn't make me ill at all - I think it's fantastic and the DVD sounds brilliant. Can't wait to get my paws on it. MEK [EMAIL PROTECTED] et To: Ploegmakers, Joost [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Katrin Richter [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org 01/16/04 05:04 PMSubject: RE: (313) Jeff Milestone Mills hope this doesn't make you more ill (iller?) http://sonar.es/portal/eng/home.cfm seems as though Katrin's estimation was dead on as Mr. Mills has now entombed his image in a museum type display case. I gotta say- on the one hand I don't agree with this particular direction for techno. Nor do I agree that Mills is the right person to take it in this direction (given the state of his current live performances) BUT, I do feel a bit more respect knowing that his actions (misguided or not) do have a definate purpose, rather than just egocentric flights of fancy. but that still doesn't explain why he refuse to let the sound guy keep him from distorting bassbins. On Fri, 16 Jan 2004, Ploegmakers, Joost wrote: Well, I never thought this was possible, but reading your mail just made me physically sick. I could comment on every single sentence, but I won't. I'm just too upset. If what you are writing are actually truly the things that are going on in Mr. Mills mind, I will never want anything to do with him ever again. What an arrogant elitist artsy fartsy wannabe prick! I sincerely hope Jeff übermensch Mills will come to his senses soon enough. Or that this is all not true of course. Joost -Original Message- From: Katrin Richter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: donderdag 15 januari 2004 17:04 To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: (313) Jeff Milestone Mills When I met Jeff, he was a very nice caring person who was deeply concerned about the direction Techno was taking in Germany (!). He felt that he and Dimitri Hegemann from Tresor did a bad job back in the early Nineties because he pleaded guilty for conditioning people to consume Techno in dark boxes full of fog and strobes and didn't consider making it nicer for girls (which is, in his opinion, the reason why there are not so many girls embracing Techno)... We had a really long discussion and he admitted that he sometimes feels really removed from his audience. He said he'd never consume drugs because he would hate to put his company - and the people working for him - at risk... I don't think he is greedy... I think he is striving to be a real artist, sound- and concept-wise, that is accepted by educated people. This is, in my opinion, the reason, why he tries to employ these pseudo-intellectual, pseudo-philosophical thoughts on his sleeves written in bad English (which of course, are more expensive to make). Although he has done Metropolis and a lot of groundbreaking other projects, he is not really really accepted in the realms of high art, especially not in North America where a Techno artist would never reach the status of social acceptance he longs for. In Europe and Japan, people roll out the red carpet... here, he is the person who single-handedly established Techno in Berlin (well, at least that's what Dimi and Jeff both want to believe - themselves - and which is impossible to prove or disprove). I guess the things I just mentioned are integral parts of his personality and that might explain why he tries to make his label a sought-after commodity rather than being down with the locals. Drug-mongering simple minds are just not his thang as he was working hard enough to transcend this stage of low human existance and I think he likes to see himself as a man of class and style - certainly the way he dresses and the hotels he chooses. Okay, that was the psychological analysis from da Kat :) who sat on the mat and is a big fan of Jeff as a human. I
RE: (313) Jeff Milestone Mills
If you look at the pictures on the CD/EVE... whoops - that's supposed to be CD/DVD MEK Michael.Elliot-Knight @fallon.com To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: 313@hyperreal.org, Ploegmakers, Joost [EMAIL PROTECTED], 01/16/04 06:03 PM Katrin Richter [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: (313) Jeff Milestone Mills Yussel, I think you've missed the point. It's a play on the idea of exhibitionism and the idea that you get to see inside of him - he's putting himself on display. If you look at the pictures on the CD/EVE a bit closer you'll see that the image isn't some wax sculpture - it's actually Jeff Mills. He hasn't entombed his image in a museum type display case at all- it's a store front window. Check out what is going to be on the DVD and you might begin to understand why it's called Exhibitionist and why placing himself in a store display window is a decent graphic representation of the project. In addition - the DVD was filmed in Detroit - not Germany or anywhere else that he could have done it. It doesn't make me ill at all - I think it's fantastic and the DVD sounds brilliant. Can't wait to get my paws on it. MEK [EMAIL PROTECTED] et To: Ploegmakers, Joost [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Katrin Richter [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org 01/16/04 05:04 PMSubject: RE: (313) Jeff Milestone Mills hope this doesn't make you more ill (iller?) http://sonar.es/portal/eng/home.cfm seems as though Katrin's estimation was dead on as Mr. Mills has now entombed his image in a museum type display case. I gotta say- on the one hand I don't agree with this particular direction for techno. Nor do I agree that Mills is the right person to take it in this direction (given the state of his current live performances) BUT, I do feel a bit more respect knowing that his actions (misguided or not) do have a definate purpose, rather than just egocentric flights of fancy. but that still doesn't explain why he refuse to let the sound guy keep him from distorting bassbins. On Fri, 16 Jan 2004, Ploegmakers, Joost wrote: Well, I never thought this was possible, but reading your mail just made me physically sick. I could comment on every single sentence, but I won't. I'm just too upset. If what you are writing are actually truly the things that are going on in Mr. Mills mind, I will never want anything to do with him ever again. What an arrogant elitist artsy fartsy wannabe prick! I sincerely hope Jeff übermensch Mills will come to his senses soon enough. Or that this is all not true of course. Joost -Original Message- From: Katrin Richter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: donderdag 15 januari 2004 17:04 To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: (313) Jeff Milestone Mills When I met Jeff, he was a very nice caring person who was deeply concerned about the direction Techno was taking in Germany (!). He felt that he and Dimitri Hegemann from Tresor did a bad job back in the early Nineties because he pleaded guilty for conditioning people to consume Techno in dark boxes full of fog and strobes and didn't consider making it nicer for girls (which is, in his opinion, the reason why there are not so many girls embracing Techno)... We had a really long discussion and he admitted that he sometimes feels really removed from his audience. He said he'd never consume drugs because he would hate to put his company - and the people working for him - at risk... I don't think he is greedy... I think he is striving to be a real artist, sound- and concept-wise, that is accepted by educated people. This is, in my opinion, the reason, why he tries to employ these pseudo-intellectual, pseudo-philosophical thoughts on his sleeves written in bad English (which of course, are more expensive to make). Although he has done Metropolis and a lot of groundbreaking other projects, he is not really really accepted in the realms of high art, especially not in North America where a Techno artist would never reach the status of social acceptance he longs for. In Europe and Japan, people roll out the red carpet... here, he is the person who single-handedly established Techno in Berlin (well, at least that's what Dimi and Jeff both want to believe - themselves - and which is impossible to prove or disprove). I guess the things I just mentioned are integral parts of his personality and that might explain why he tries to make his label
RE: (313) Jeff Milestone Mills
I was referring to the other person who said the notion (as allegedly stated by Mills) that he was trying to elevate DJing to high art, made him sick. Its obvious that people are going to translate the Mills on display image being used to promote his product in whatever way endorses their position (fan/ not fan) But understanding what he intends and ageeing with it are two separate things. Just because the Bush administration insist that their priorities are with the MAerican public and not big business doesn't make it true. And just because I 'understand' their true meaning doesn't mean its right. I did say that I gained a little respect for Mills for at least having a concept (as opposed to just being driven by arbitrairy vanity), but arbitrary or not, it is still vanity and is not something that appals to me or many other people on this list. But please don't imply that I don't 'get it.' I get it and don't like it- and I was under the impression that a detroit techo centered list ought to be a forum where people could discuss whether or not they approved of a particular techno artist's music-ideas-performances-products. btw- this isnt a new idea for Mills. The video for Life Cycle(?) was basically a single camera angel showing his hands manipulating turntables and a mixer (which I though was silly since there's no mixing going on in the musical track) His later photograph show that consisted of stills of his hands again hinted at this new project, which all comes to the physical interaction of a DJ on display. Great if your into it- although if watching the DJ work is so compelling, than I wonder why most of Mill's gigs are in gigantic venues where you can't see what he's doing. One thing that I think helped Mills develope as an icon is the fact that he looks good behind the decks- shaking his hips and moving his hands in an incredibly fast yet gracefull manner. I wouldn't say whether or not this is a concious style he developed- or if its his natural movements. Eithr way, its something of interest. But it ranks rather low in terms of priorities for me, after... 1) killer live sets (which I've discussed my experiences) 2) killer records (which I've found lacking the past few years- although I liked my DOWNLOADS of the triple EPs that started this discussion) 3) decent business practices (which is of course what started this thread all those many days ago. His bailing on gigs- which has been mentioned repeatedly as well- is another example of questionable ethics) 4) fun person (i'm sorry- but one of the essential things about this culture for me is the access and interaction between artists and fans. if i want to worship someone from afar, i'll go to a stones concert.) I could probably llist a lot more before 'looks cool behind the decks' which seems to be what is being perpetuated by this DVD- adn the promotion around it. I get it. I don't care for it. On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yussel, I think you've missed the point. It's a play on the idea of exhibitionism and the idea that you get to see inside of him - he's putting himself on display. If you look at the pictures on the CD/EVE a bit closer you'll see that the image isn't some wax sculpture - it's actually Jeff Mills. He hasn't entombed his image in a museum type display case at all- it's a store front window. Check out what is going to be on the DVD and you might begin to understand why it's called Exhibitionist and why placing himself in a store display window is a decent graphic representation of the project. In addition - the DVD was filmed in Detroit - not Germany or anywhere else that he could have done it. It doesn't make me ill at all - I think it's fantastic and the DVD sounds brilliant. Can't wait to get my paws on it. MEK [EMAIL PROTECTED] et To: Ploegmakers, Joost [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Katrin Richter [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org 01/16/04 05:04 PMSubject: RE: (313) Jeff Milestone Mills hope this doesn't make you more ill (iller?) http://sonar.es/portal/eng/home.cfm seems as though Katrin's estimation was dead on as Mr. Mills has now entombed his image in a museum type display case. I gotta say- on the one hand I don't agree with this particular direction for techno. Nor do I agree that Mills is the right person to take it in this direction (given the state of his current live performances) BUT, I do feel a bit more respect knowing that his actions (misguided or not) do have a definate purpose, rather than just egocentric flights of fancy. but that still doesn't explain why he refuse to let the sound guy keep him from distorting bassbins. On Fri, 16 Jan 2004, Ploegmakers, Joost wrote: Well, I never thought this was possible, but reading your mail just made me physically
Re: (313) Jeff Milestone Mills
why did he film it in detroit? he's not in detroit anymore, he doesnt play in detroit anymore. what the hell does jeff mills know about detroit? the the wizard era of detroit is long gone, and mostly for the better. it was a bad city with good music then, and now its a better city with better music IMO. _j - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org; Ploegmakers, Joost [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Katrin Richter [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 7:03 PM Subject: RE: (313) Jeff Milestone Mills Yussel, I think you've missed the point. It's a play on the idea of exhibitionism and the idea that you get to see inside of him - he's putting himself on display. If you look at the pictures on the CD/EVE a bit closer you'll see that the image isn't some wax sculpture - it's actually Jeff Mills. He hasn't entombed his image in a museum type display case at all- it's a store front window. Check out what is going to be on the DVD and you might begin to understand why it's called Exhibitionist and why placing himself in a store display window is a decent graphic representation of the project. In addition - the DVD was filmed in Detroit - not Germany or anywhere else that he could have done it. It doesn't make me ill at all - I think it's fantastic and the DVD sounds brilliant. Can't wait to get my paws on it. MEK [EMAIL PROTECTED] et To: Ploegmakers, Joost [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Katrin Richter [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org 01/16/04 05:04 PMSubject: RE: (313) Jeff Milestone Mills hope this doesn't make you more ill (iller?) http://sonar.es/portal/eng/home.cfm seems as though Katrin's estimation was dead on as Mr. Mills has now entombed his image in a museum type display case. I gotta say- on the one hand I don't agree with this particular direction for techno. Nor do I agree that Mills is the right person to take it in this direction (given the state of his current live performances) BUT, I do feel a bit more respect knowing that his actions (misguided or not) do have a definate purpose, rather than just egocentric flights of fancy. but that still doesn't explain why he refuse to let the sound guy keep him from distorting bassbins. On Fri, 16 Jan 2004, Ploegmakers, Joost wrote: Well, I never thought this was possible, but reading your mail just made me physically sick. I could comment on every single sentence, but I won't. I'm just too upset. If what you are writing are actually truly the things that are going on in Mr. Mills mind, I will never want anything to do with him ever again. What an arrogant elitist artsy fartsy wannabe prick! I sincerely hope Jeff übermensch Mills will come to his senses soon enough. Or that this is all not true of course. Joost -Original Message- From: Katrin Richter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: donderdag 15 januari 2004 17:04 To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: (313) Jeff Milestone Mills When I met Jeff, he was a very nice caring person who was deeply concerned about the direction Techno was taking in Germany (!). He felt that he and Dimitri Hegemann from Tresor did a bad job back in the early Nineties because he pleaded guilty for conditioning people to consume Techno in dark boxes full of fog and strobes and didn't consider making it nicer for girls (which is, in his opinion, the reason why there are not so many girls embracing Techno)... We had a really long discussion and he admitted that he sometimes feels really removed from his audience. He said he'd never consume drugs because he would hate to put his company - and the people working for him - at risk... I don't think he is greedy... I think he is striving to be a real artist, sound- and concept-wise, that is accepted by educated people. This is, in my opinion, the reason, why he tries to employ these pseudo-intellectual, pseudo-philosophical thoughts on his sleeves written in bad English (which of course, are more expensive to make). Although he has done Metropolis and a lot of groundbreaking other projects, he is not really really accepted in the realms of high art, especially not in North America where a Techno artist would never reach the status of social acceptance he longs for. In Europe and Japan, people roll out the red carpet... here, he is the person who single-handedly established Techno in Berlin (well, at least that's what Dimi and Jeff both want to believe - themselves - and which is impossible to prove or disprove). I guess the things I just mentioned are integral parts of his personality and that might explain why he tries to make his label a sought-after commodity rather than being down with the locals. Drug-mongering simple minds are just not his thang as he
Re: (313) Jeff Milestone Mills
i get the sense that there's some seething going on somewhere...what's that about?
RE: (313) Jeff Milestone Mills
Well, I never thought this was possible, but reading your mail just made me physically sick. I could comment on every single sentence, but I won't. I'm just too upset. If what you are writing are actually truly the things that are going on in Mr. Mills mind, I will never want anything to do with him ever again. What an arrogant elitist artsy fartsy wannabe prick! I sincerely hope Jeff übermensch Mills will come to his senses soon enough. Or that this is all not true of course. Joost -Original Message- From: Katrin Richter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: donderdag 15 januari 2004 17:04 To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: (313) Jeff Milestone Mills When I met Jeff, he was a very nice caring person who was deeply concerned about the direction Techno was taking in Germany (!). He felt that he and Dimitri Hegemann from Tresor did a bad job back in the early Nineties because he pleaded guilty for conditioning people to consume Techno in dark boxes full of fog and strobes and didn't consider making it nicer for girls (which is, in his opinion, the reason why there are not so many girls embracing Techno)... We had a really long discussion and he admitted that he sometimes feels really removed from his audience. He said he'd never consume drugs because he would hate to put his company - and the people working for him - at risk... I don't think he is greedy... I think he is striving to be a real artist, sound- and concept-wise, that is accepted by educated people. This is, in my opinion, the reason, why he tries to employ these pseudo-intellectual, pseudo-philosophical thoughts on his sleeves written in bad English (which of course, are more expensive to make). Although he has done Metropolis and a lot of groundbreaking other projects, he is not really really accepted in the realms of high art, especially not in North America where a Techno artist would never reach the status of social acceptance he longs for. In Europe and Japan, people roll out the red carpet... here, he is the person who single-handedly established Techno in Berlin (well, at least that's what Dimi and Jeff both want to believe - themselves - and which is impossible to prove or disprove). I guess the things I just mentioned are integral parts of his personality and that might explain why he tries to make his label a sought-after commodity rather than being down with the locals. Drug-mongering simple minds are just not his thang as he was working hard enough to transcend this stage of low human existance and I think he likes to see himself as a man of class and style - certainly the way he dresses and the hotels he chooses. Okay, that was the psychological analysis from da Kat :) who sat on the mat and is a big fan of Jeff as a human. I wouldn't buy See The Light but I certainly would buy the flip flips in his shop (and even the Axis beach towel) if I had the money spare. I love supporting people... -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Donnerstag, 15. Januar 2004 16:03 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Betreff: Re: (313) axis But what if he and others in his position could take it further than that! Galvanize this community through festivals (lukewarm overall), seminars, clubs (gasp!), and the development of new players in the game. Uh, yeah - he does all of this. It's called Musik und Machine. http://www.musikundmaschine.com/index_flash.html not many other individual artists have done this so I think Jeff is actually on the forefront of doing exactly what you're asking him to do. MEK
RE: (313) Jeff Milestone Mills
hope this doesn't make you more ill (iller?) http://sonar.es/portal/eng/home.cfm seems as though Katrin's estimation was dead on as Mr. Mills has now entombed his image in a museum type display case. I gotta say- on the one hand I don't agree with this particular direction for techno. Nor do I agree that Mills is the right person to take it in this direction (given the state of his current live performances) BUT, I do feel a bit more respect knowing that his actions (misguided or not) do have a definate purpose, rather than just egocentric flights of fancy. but that still doesn't explain why he refuse to let the sound guy keep him from distorting bassbins. On Fri, 16 Jan 2004, Ploegmakers, Joost wrote: Well, I never thought this was possible, but reading your mail just made me physically sick. I could comment on every single sentence, but I won't. I'm just too upset. If what you are writing are actually truly the things that are going on in Mr. Mills mind, I will never want anything to do with him ever again. What an arrogant elitist artsy fartsy wannabe prick! I sincerely hope Jeff übermensch Mills will come to his senses soon enough. Or that this is all not true of course. Joost -Original Message- From: Katrin Richter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: donderdag 15 januari 2004 17:04 To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: (313) Jeff Milestone Mills When I met Jeff, he was a very nice caring person who was deeply concerned about the direction Techno was taking in Germany (!). He felt that he and Dimitri Hegemann from Tresor did a bad job back in the early Nineties because he pleaded guilty for conditioning people to consume Techno in dark boxes full of fog and strobes and didn't consider making it nicer for girls (which is, in his opinion, the reason why there are not so many girls embracing Techno)... We had a really long discussion and he admitted that he sometimes feels really removed from his audience. He said he'd never consume drugs because he would hate to put his company - and the people working for him - at risk... I don't think he is greedy... I think he is striving to be a real artist, sound- and concept-wise, that is accepted by educated people. This is, in my opinion, the reason, why he tries to employ these pseudo-intellectual, pseudo-philosophical thoughts on his sleeves written in bad English (which of course, are more expensive to make). Although he has done Metropolis and a lot of groundbreaking other projects, he is not really really accepted in the realms of high art, especially not in North America where a Techno artist would never reach the status of social acceptance he longs for. In Europe and Japan, people roll out the red carpet... here, he is the person who single-handedly established Techno in Berlin (well, at least that's what Dimi and Jeff both want to believe - themselves - and which is impossible to prove or disprove). I guess the things I just mentioned are integral parts of his personality and that might explain why he tries to make his label a sought-after commodity rather than being down with the locals. Drug-mongering simple minds are just not his thang as he was working hard enough to transcend this stage of low human existance and I think he likes to see himself as a man of class and style - certainly the way he dresses and the hotels he chooses. Okay, that was the psychological analysis from da Kat :) who sat on the mat and is a big fan of Jeff as a human. I wouldn't buy See The Light but I certainly would buy the flip flips in his shop (and even the Axis beach towel) if I had the money spare. I love supporting people... -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Donnerstag, 15. Januar 2004 16:03 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Betreff: Re: (313) axis But what if he and others in his position could take it further than that! Galvanize this community through festivals (lukewarm overall), seminars, clubs (gasp!), and the development of new players in the game. Uh, yeah - he does all of this. It's called Musik und Machine. http://www.musikundmaschine.com/index_flash.html not many other individual artists have done this so I think Jeff is actually on the forefront of doing exactly what you're asking him to do. MEK
Re: (313) Jeff Milestone Mills
I guess the things I just mentioned are integral parts of his personalityand that might explain why he tries to make his label a sought-after commodity rather than being down with the locals. Drug-mongering simpleminds are just not his thang as he was working hard enough to transcend this stage of low human existance and I think he likes to see himself as a man of class and style - certainly the way he dresses and the hotels he chooses. Kat, thanks for the insight. I enjoyed reading, but have a problem with the above paragraph. I went to school for fine arts and around my senior year I started visting galleries, artists, and museums to get an understanding of the business. I soon realised that I had no interest in the art community due to the intense elitism involved. Charging thousands of dollars for conversation pieces and dealing with agents, galleries and curators who wouldn't give the time of day unless you display a working knowledge of contemporary critical thought and art history. I ended up working in the academic community where knowledge is embraced and the main goal is to spread it rather than horde it. This is also what brought me to the music community. The price tag of vinyl is a lot more accesible to anyone interested, and the community is a lot more accepting of people from all walks of life. Passing off local music lovers as drug-mongering simpleminds reflects the same elitism that drove me away from high art in the first place... I think the real way to transcend the low stage of human existance is to work within that stage to help improve it rather than to ignore it.. Just my .02 - and I'm sure someone will call me on also stereotyping the art community as elitists (as I call them on stereotyping the simpletons). I met a handful of very down to earth people in the art community and I make judgement calls on an individual basis based on words and actions. But what I encountered overwhelmingly was the aforementioned attitude, and Kat's words above reinforce that attitude.. PS - I do see the desire for having techno appreciated as an artform rather than passed off as druggies making music to take drugs to - but I think that can happen without alienating core parts of the community. The art can speak for itself and has already spoken for itself with the likes of Mills, Brinkmann, Panasonic, Aphex Twin, Hawtin, Basic Channel and lots of others who are certainly being recognized by the art community. This is great, but I don't think techno artists should be pandering to them specifically and ignoring thousands of music lovers who don't pass their subjective art-IQ tests. peace, sorry for blabbing so much, I think its all out of my system now :) pete
Re: (313) Jeff Milestone Mills
[Katrin Richter [EMAIL PROTECTED]] I guess the things I just mentioned are integral parts of his personality and that might explain why he tries to make his label a sought-after commodity rather than being down with the locals. Drug-mongering simple minds are just not his thang as he was working hard enough to transcend this stage of low human existance and I think he likes to see himself as a man of class and style - certainly the way he dresses and the hotels he chooses. Wow, now I'm completely offended. Drug-mongering simple minds? Where do you think this music came from? I thought techno as a genre was born of the decay and hopelessness of Detroit, or at least that's the PR that's spewed in every movie and magazine. So now you're telling me that Jeff Mills got rich off of this and is now above it because he buys expensive clothes and stays in expensive hotels? Now you've summed up the whole of my problem in one paragraph-- thank you for summarizing. -- :: atomly :: [ [EMAIL PROTECTED] : www.atomly.com ... [ atomiq records : po box 805319 chicago il 60680 : 312.804.5389 ... [ e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for atomly info and updates ...
RE: (313) Jeff Milestone Mills
Yeh i'm offended also. -Original Message- From: atomly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 15 January 2004 5:30 PM To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) Jeff Milestone Mills [Katrin Richter [EMAIL PROTECTED]] I guess the things I just mentioned are integral parts of his personality and that might explain why he tries to make his label a sought-after commodity rather than being down with the locals. Drug-mongering simple minds are just not his thang as he was working hard enough to transcend this stage of low human existance and I think he likes to see himself as a man of class and style - certainly the way he dresses and the hotels he chooses. Wow, now I'm completely offended. Drug-mongering simple minds? Where do you think this music came from? I thought techno as a genre was born of the decay and hopelessness of Detroit, or at least that's the PR that's spewed in every movie and magazine. So now you're telling me that Jeff Mills got rich off of this and is now above it because he buys expensive clothes and stays in expensive hotels? Now you've summed up the whole of my problem in one paragraph-- thank you for summarizing. -- :: atomly :: [ [EMAIL PROTECTED] : www.atomly.com ... [ atomiq records : po box 805319 chicago il 60680 : 312.804.5389 ... [ e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for atomly info and updates ...
