Re: (313) the risks of datareduced music
Hmmm - digital music is bad but digital paintings (a laughable term in this case considering the work of real artists who work in digital painting) aren't? These are paintings from his website http://www.informatik.fh-hamburg.de/~windle_c/Logologie/picts1.html maybe he's right - because laughter is the best medicine MEK Brent Kirkwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org cc: 01/26/03 01:09 PMSubject: Re: (313) the risks of datareduced music I would hardly call his little web page scientific, though he seems to try to make it sound that way. He seems to have skipped about 4/5 steps of the scientific process. I found this good for a laugh, but much else. I hope his attempt at using a few technical terms doesn't fool anyone. Maybe we can join Mr. Windler Teachmaster's religion, too: Logologie. http://www.informatik.fh-hamburg.de/~windle_c/Logologie/e_index.html Sounds like someone to put your faith in during these data-reduced days in which we're rotting. Brent On Sunday, January 26, 2003, at 06:42 PM, marc christensen wrote: Not to sound critical of scientific hypothesis (because really what we have represented in the risks article is hypothesis, at a fairly grandiose level), but doesn't this dude's hypothesis sound a lot like the RIAA's best wet dream come true? Extending this theory, the internet is also damaging to the brain because it uses datareduced images like JPEGs and GIFs. my .02 anyway. -marc PS ASCII destroyed all my brain cells back in the 80's. Hi gang, i think this can be of interest to most of you - it is an article that explains the neuroacustic damage one (potentially?) suffers form listening to datareduced music ie. mp3 and other digital audio her is the link: http://www.informatik.fh-hamburg.de/~windle_c/Logologie/MP3-Gefahr/ MP3-risk. html have a nice weekend, fab
Re: (313) the risks of datareduced music
I would hardly call his little web page scientific, though he seems to try to make it sound that way. He seems to have skipped about 4/5 steps of the scientific process. I found this good for a laugh, but much else. I hope his attempt at using a few technical terms doesn't fool anyone. Maybe we can join Mr. Windler Teachmaster's religion, too: Logologie. http://www.informatik.fh-hamburg.de/~windle_c/Logologie/e_index.html Sounds like someone to put your faith in during these data-reduced days in which we're rotting. Brent On Sunday, January 26, 2003, at 06:42 PM, marc christensen wrote: Not to sound critical of scientific hypothesis (because really what we have represented in the risks article is hypothesis, at a fairly grandiose level), but doesn't this dude's hypothesis sound a lot like the RIAA's best wet dream come true? Extending this theory, the internet is also damaging to the brain because it uses datareduced images like JPEGs and GIFs. my .02 anyway. -marc PS ASCII destroyed all my brain cells back in the 80's. Hi gang, i think this can be of interest to most of you - it is an article that explains the neuroacustic damage one (potentially?) suffers form listening to datareduced music ie. mp3 and other digital audio her is the link: http://www.informatik.fh-hamburg.de/~windle_c/Logologie/MP3-Gefahr/ MP3-risk. html have a nice weekend, fab
Re: (313) the risks of datareduced music
what about all those years listening to cassettes? :) -d On Friday, January 24, 2003, at 10:12 AM, Fabrizio Nahum wrote: Hi gang, i think this can be of interest to most of you - it is an article that explains the neuroacustic damage one (potentially?) suffers form listening to datareduced music ie. mp3 and other digital audio her is the link: http://www.informatik.fh-hamburg.de/~windle_c/Logologie/MP3-Gefahr/ MP3-risk. html have a nice weekend, fab
Re: (313) the risks of datareduced music
listening to analogue data has no effect to the ear.. as I infere from the article. Cheers, Maarten what about all those years listening to cassettes? :) -d On Friday, January 24, 2003, at 10:12 AM, Fabrizio Nahum wrote: Hi gang, i think this can be of interest to most of you - it is an article that explains the neuroacustic damage one (potentially?) suffers form listening to datareduced music ie. mp3 and other digital audio her is the link: http://www.informatik.fh-hamburg.de/~windle_c/Logologie/MP3-Gefahr/ MP3-risk. html
RE: (313) the risks of datareduced music
Hmm surely by the same rational if you read too many magazines your eye sight should be damaged by the moire in the print ?? -Original Message- From: Fabrizio Nahum [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 3:12 PM To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: (313) the risks of datareduced music Hi gang, i think this can be of interest to most of you - it is an article that explains the neuroacustic damage one (potentially?) suffers form listening to datareduced music ie. mp3 and other digital audio her is the link: http://www.informatik.fh-hamburg.de/~windle_c/Logologie/MP3-Ge fahr/MP3-risk. html have a nice weekend, fab -- This message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the designated recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. This communication is for information purposes only and should not be regarded as an offer to sell or as a solicitation of an offer to buy any financial product, an official confirmation of any transaction, or as an official statement of Lehman Brothers. Email transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free. Therefore, we do not represent that this information is complete or accurate and it should not be relied upon as such. All information is subject to change without notice.
Re: (313) the risks of datareduced music
an interesting read, however there is one part the author did not go into detail about very much that i wouldlike to find out more about... is it damaging to sleep with music on i usually put a cd on as i go to sleep so it would last about an hour... am i damaging my hearing (its not very loud!)?! ab Hi gang, i think this can be of interest to most of you - it is an article that explains the neuroacustic damage one (potentially?) suffers form listening to datareduced music ie. mp3 and other digital audio her is the link: http://www.informatik.fh-hamburg.de/~windle_c/Logologie/MP3-Ge fahr/MP3-risk. html have a nice weekend, fab
Re: (313) the risks of datareduced music
I think the levels of damage we're talking about here are a lot less than the damage suffered listening to v. loud music in a club or headphones. It's all relative, interesting nonetheless. is it damaging to sleep with music on i usually put a cd on as i go to sleep so it would last about an hour... am i damaging my hearing (its not very loud!)?! The article says: I thus also suspect the data reduction in radio and TV broadcasts as a cause, not least because the hearing uses particularly the sleep for calibrating itself, during that the presence of neuroacoustically datareduced tones thus should be particularly harmful. So as long as its a CD you should be okay ;) However there is another danger from CDs A possible advantage of the data reduction characteristic to remove all sound portions classified as inaudible could otherwise even be that one could clean with it supposingly contaminated audio material (as for instance propaganda from dictatorships) from so-called subliminals (i.e. hidden hypnotic suggestion messages those are intended to get into the brain without getting into conscious awareness) before listening. Not too sure how plausible this article is? --Mike
RE: (313) the risks of datareduced music
Oh sh*t I don't want to know -Original Message- From: Michael Lees [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 3:53 PM To: Alex Bates Cc: Langsman, Marc; 'Fabrizio Nahum'; 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) the risks of datareduced music I think the levels of damage we're talking about here are a lot less than the damage suffered listening to v. loud music in a club or headphones. It's all relative, interesting nonetheless. is it damaging to sleep with music on i usually put a cd on as i go to sleep so it would last about an hour... am i damaging my hearing (its not very loud!)?! The article says: I thus also suspect the data reduction in radio and TV broadcasts as a cause, not least because the hearing uses particularly the sleep for calibrating itself, during that the presence of neuroacoustically datareduced tones thus should be particularly harmful. So as long as its a CD you should be okay ;) However there is another danger from CDs A possible advantage of the data reduction characteristic to remove all sound portions classified as inaudible could otherwise even be that one could clean with it supposingly contaminated audio material (as for instance propaganda from dictatorships) from so-called subliminals (i.e. hidden hypnotic suggestion messages those are intended to get into the brain without getting into conscious awareness) before listening. Not too sure how plausible this article is? --Mike Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically stated. This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: (313) the risks of datareduced music
Listening to music while asleep may cause other problems, like nightmares though! i usually try not to listen to gabber or grindcore when im trying to sleep :) also i thought tinnitus was a very permanent thing not just a ringing in the ear when you wake up? i know of quite a few drum and bass producers who suffer terribly from tinnitus... Marc: although reading too many magazines may cause problems (i for one wear glasses cuz i read too much under my covers with a flashlight as a kid), HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA!!! im sure im not the only one who doesnt want to know what you were reading! ab
RE: (313) the risks of datareduced music
although reading too many magazines may cause problems (i for one wear glasses cuz i read too much under my covers with a flashlight as a kid), i think that that is caused to insufficient lighting, poor print etc rather than the intrinsic qualities of the print per se, That's a common falacy that reading in dim light damages your eyesight btw whereas the data reduction in digital audio is sole cause of neuroacustic damage to the ear (in this case.) Surely by this rationale the data reduction whereby a spectrum of colours is reduced to 3 colours (allowing your brain to interpolate / correct the rest) would have the same affect as removing frequencies from sound ?! -- This message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the designated recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. This communication is for information purposes only and should not be regarded as an offer to sell or as a solicitation of an offer to buy any financial product, an official confirmation of any transaction, or as an official statement of Lehman Brothers. Email transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free. Therefore, we do not represent that this information is complete or accurate and it should not be relied upon as such. All information is subject to change without notice.
Re: (313) the risks of datareduced music
I think the reason he wakes up with tinnitus is because in the middle of the night his roommates sneak into his room, sedate him with heavy drug injections, then proceed to bang out Jeff Mills' The Bells on the lids of pots and pans. I do know this - if you fall asleep with music on it *will* prevent you from going into Delta sleep - that is the deeper sleep and the more restful sleep - you still might dream because you're brain is still listening to the music and more likely have nightmares because your body is not at rest. Mr. Sandman MEK Fabrizio Nahum [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Alex Bates [EMAIL PROTECTED], Langsman, Marc stries.com[EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org cc: 01/24/03 10:08 AM Subject: Re: (313) the risks of datareduced music IMO: Alex: the author only mentions cd audio as harmful in his personal case of when he falls asleep listening to music and waking up with tinnitus. He also seems to being basing part of his theory on this case, which IMO is not a very scientific way of proving it. AFAIK cd quality audio is not (heavily) datareduced so the authours theory may not apply. Listening to music while asleep may cause other problems, like nightmares though! Marc: although reading too many magazines may cause problems (i for one wear glasses cuz i read too much under my covers with a flashlight as a kid), i think that that is caused to insufficient lighting, poor print etc rather than the intrinsic qualities of the print per se, whereas the data reduction in digital audio is sole cause of neuroacustic damage to the ear (in this case.) - Original Message - From: Alex Bates [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Langsman, Marc [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Fabrizio Nahum' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 4:36 PM Subject: Re: (313) the risks of datareduced music an interesting read, however there is one part the author did not go into detail about very much that i wouldlike to find out more about... is it damaging to sleep with music on i usually put a cd on as i go to sleep so it would last about an hour... am i damaging my hearing (its not very loud!)?! ab Hi gang, i think this can be of interest to most of you - it is an article that explains the neuroacustic damage one (potentially?) suffers form listening to datareduced music ie. mp3 and other digital audio her is the link: http://www.informatik.fh-hamburg.de/~windle_c/Logologie/MP3-Ge fahr/MP3-risk. html have a nice weekend, fab
Re: (313) the risks of datareduced music
Fab: the author only mentions cd audio as harmful in his personal case of when he falls asleep listening to music and waking up with tinnitus. He also seems to being basing part of his theory on this case, which IMO is not a very scientific way of proving it. AFAIK cd quality audio is not (heavily) datareduced so the authours theory may not apply. Listening to music while asleep may cause other problems, like nightmares though! I completely agree with you, his argument was (basically) that he woke up after watching TV asleep with a ringing in his ears, therefore the datareduced sound used on TVs must cause tinitus. Marc: Surely by this rationale the data reduction whereby a spectrum of colours is reduced to 3 colours (allowing your brain to interpolate / correct the rest) would have the same affect as removing frequencies from sound ?! But all colours are made from the primary colours? Therefore the data isn't reduced unless you use low colour depth ie. 8bit I think the number of colours the eye can distniguish is between 16 and 24bit 2^16 or 2^24? By using fewer colours I don't think you're tricking the eye? It just sees a particular tint instead of another? Michael: I think the reason he wakes up with tinnitus is because in the middle of the night his roommates sneak into his room, sedate him with heavy drug injections, then proceed to bang out Jeff Mills' The Bells on the lids of pots and pans. I know people who've stopped taking drugs purely on the basis of their tinnitus. Apparently after drugs it got so bad he couldn't sleep, I don't know if this is to do with hightened sensory awareness? -- Mike
Re: (313) the risks of datareduced music
When you wake up, before you hear any loud noises (such as your alarm clock), your hear is very sensitive and with very little outside noise, you usually hear a high pitched noise within your head. Waking up with this sound is perfectly normal. Perhaps it's this that is being mistake for hearing damage? Have a look at this from http://www.tinnitus.org The meaning of tinnitus sounds In 1953 Heller and Bergman performed an simple and classic experiment. They placed 80 tinnitus free individuals (university members in a sound proofed room for 5 minutes each, asking them to report on any sounds that might be heard. The subjects thought they might be undergoing a hearing test, but actually experienced 5 minutes of total silence. 93% reported hearing buzzing, pulsing, whistling sounds in the head or ears identical to those reported by tinnitus sufferers. This simple experiment shows almost anyone can detect background electrical activity present in every living nerve cell in the hearing pathways as a sound. Although some areas of the auditory system may be more active than others, every neurone will contribute to some extent to the final perception of tinnitus. These electrical signals are not evidence of damage, but compensatory activity that occurs all the time in the auditory system of each one of us. Compensation can occur as a response to changes in our sound environment (e.g. silence) to hearing loss which may be a natural part of ageing, or to exposure to sudden noise. Its good to think of the sounds produced by this compensatory activity as 'the music of the brain'. Of those who DO experience persistent tinnitus, population studies have shown that about 85% do not find it intrusive, disturbing or anxiety provoking (something tinnitus sufferers find very hard to believe!). The reason for this is not so much because the quality or loudness of the tinnitus is different; in fact we have found that tinnitus is of a very similar type of sound in those who are bothered by it and those who are not.
Re: (313) the risks of datareduced music
sleep - you still might dream because you're brain is still listening to the music and more likely have nightmares because your body is not at rest. ever listened to SAWII or Leo Annibaldi's Void while sleeping? :-)) - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Fabrizio Nahum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org; Alex Bates [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Langsman, Marc [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 5:26 PM Subject: Re: (313) the risks of datareduced music I think the reason he wakes up with tinnitus is because in the middle of the night his roommates sneak into his room, sedate him with heavy drug injections, then proceed to bang out Jeff Mills' The Bells on the lids of pots and pans. I do know this - if you fall asleep with music on it *will* prevent you from going into Delta sleep - that is the deeper sleep and the more restful sleep - you still might dream because you're brain is still listening to the music and more likely have nightmares because your body is not at rest. Mr. Sandman MEK Fabrizio Nahum [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Alex Bates [EMAIL PROTECTED], Langsman, Marc stries.com[EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org cc: 01/24/03 10:08 AM Subject: Re: (313) the risks of datareduced music IMO: Alex: the author only mentions cd audio as harmful in his personal case of when he falls asleep listening to music and waking up with tinnitus. He also seems to being basing part of his theory on this case, which IMO is not a very scientific way of proving it. AFAIK cd quality audio is not (heavily) datareduced so the authours theory may not apply. Listening to music while asleep may cause other problems, like nightmares though! Marc: although reading too many magazines may cause problems (i for one wear glasses cuz i read too much under my covers with a flashlight as a kid), i think that that is caused to insufficient lighting, poor print etc rather than the intrinsic qualities of the print per se, whereas the data reduction in digital audio is sole cause of neuroacustic damage to the ear (in this case.) - Original Message - From: Alex Bates [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Langsman, Marc [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Fabrizio Nahum' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 4:36 PM Subject: Re: (313) the risks of datareduced music an interesting read, however there is one part the author did not go into detail about very much that i wouldlike to find out more about... is it damaging to sleep with music on i usually put a cd on as i go to sleep so it would last about an hour... am i damaging my hearing (its not very loud!)?! ab Hi gang, i think this can be of interest to most of you - it is an article that explains the neuroacustic damage one (potentially?) suffers form listening to datareduced music ie. mp3 and other digital audio her is the link: http://www.informatik.fh-hamburg.de/~windle_c/Logologie/MP3-Ge fahr/MP3-risk. html have a nice weekend, fab
Re: (313) the risks of datareduced music
Fabrizio Nahum wrote on Fri, 24 Jan 2003 about following: ever listened to SAWII or Leo Annibaldi's Void while sleeping? yes, SAWII on repeat. i had some wisdom teeth problem. it was painful. SAWII helped me to sleep overnight. sakke -- - * time to jack * - http://www.arabuusimiehet.com/sakke/music.html
