(313) free idea for academic paper in Musicology....

2008-09-25 Thread kent williams
When I defended my Master's Project I promised myself never to go back
to school. After nearly 30 years of schooling I realized that I'm a
terrible student.  Ironically my work now is in an Academic department
of the College of Medicine. I work with and for professors and grad
students.  But I just write software -- I leave it to them to do the
academics. Suckers!

But every so often I have an idea that has academic potential, and
when I think of following through on it I break out in a cold sweat.
But no reason not to share it:
Detroit Techno's signature sound is based in part on dramatic string
or string-like chord patterns over a bed of beats not that far from
classic Chicago House.  Contrary to the norm in western music, the
chords are likely to be 'parallel' -- i.e. a pattern of 4 chords will
be one chord, transposed from the root 3 times.

The traditional harmonic rules of Western music, by contrast are more
parsimonious in tonal motion -- i.e. any two chords in sequence will
most likely retain any common notes. The transition between two
dissimilar chords will move from one chord to the inversion of the
second chord with the least interval distance from the notes of the
first.

If you are not a musician, your eyes are probably rolling up in your
head by now, so more concretely: The Detroit way if played on a piano
would involve moving your whole hand, but using (roughly) the same
spacing of your fingers.  The traditional way would keep your hand
mostly in the same place, but change the spacing between your fingers.

My suspicion is that the 'Detroit' chords came at least in part from a
feature of the Roland Alpha Juno synthesizer, which had a feature
called 'chord memory' -- you could play a chord, push a button, and
thereafter,  you could play that same chord with one finger on the
lowest note of the original chord. Or, you could play a transposed
chord by playing a different single note.

A perfect example of the meshing of these two approaches in one song
is UR's 'Jupiter Jazz' -- there is the signature stacatto chords of
the synthesizer -- with parallel chord transposition, and a denser
female chorus sound that exhiibits the more traditional conservation
of harmonic motion.  That contrast and overlay of two different
harmonic strategies is part of what makes that song so compelling.
Well, that, and the bubbling acid line. And Mad Mike's soaring synth
soloing...


RE: (313) free idea for academic paper in Musicology....

2008-09-25 Thread Odeluga, Ken
I just cut and pasted that off into an application form for the Royal
College of Music, Kent.

Thanks

;-)


-Original Message-
From: kent williams [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 4:25 PM
To: list 313
Subject: (313) free idea for academic paper in Musicology


When I defended my Master's Project I promised myself never to go back
to school. After nearly 30 years of schooling I realized that I'm a
terrible student.  Ironically my work now is in an Academic department
of the College of Medicine. I work with and for professors and grad
students.  But I just write software -- I leave it to them to do the
academics. Suckers!

But every so often I have an idea that has academic potential, and when
I think of following through on it I break out in a cold sweat. But no
reason not to share it: Detroit Techno's signature sound is based in
part on dramatic string or string-like chord patterns over a bed of
beats not that far from classic Chicago House.  Contrary to the norm in
western music, the chords are likely to be 'parallel' -- i.e. a pattern
of 4 chords will be one chord, transposed from the root 3 times.

The traditional harmonic rules of Western music, by contrast are more
parsimonious in tonal motion -- i.e. any two chords in sequence will
most likely retain any common notes. The transition between two
dissimilar chords will move from one chord to the inversion of the
second chord with the least interval distance from the notes of the
first.

If you are not a musician, your eyes are probably rolling up in your
head by now, so more concretely: The Detroit way if played on a piano
would involve moving your whole hand, but using (roughly) the same
spacing of your fingers.  The traditional way would keep your hand
mostly in the same place, but change the spacing between your fingers.

My suspicion is that the 'Detroit' chords came at least in part from a
feature of the Roland Alpha Juno synthesizer, which had a feature called
'chord memory' -- you could play a chord, push a button, and thereafter,
you could play that same chord with one finger on the lowest note of the
original chord. Or, you could play a transposed chord by playing a
different single note.

A perfect example of the meshing of these two approaches in one song is
UR's 'Jupiter Jazz' -- there is the signature stacatto chords of the
synthesizer -- with parallel chord transposition, and a denser female
chorus sound that exhiibits the more traditional conservation of
harmonic motion.  That contrast and overlay of two different harmonic
strategies is part of what makes that song so compelling. Well, that,
and the bubbling acid line. And Mad Mike's soaring synth soloing...


Re: (313) free idea for academic paper in Musicology....

2008-09-25 Thread Michael . Elliot-Knight
You started a sentence with Or?

;-)

MEK

kent williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 09/25/2008 10:24:46 AM:

 When I defended my Master's Project I promised myself never to go back
 to school. After nearly 30 years of schooling I realized that I'm a
 terrible student.  Ironically my work now is in an Academic department
 of the College of Medicine. I work with and for professors and grad
 students.  But I just write software -- I leave it to them to do the
 academics. Suckers!

 But every so often I have an idea that has academic potential, and
 when I think of following through on it I break out in a cold sweat.
 But no reason not to share it:
 Detroit Techno's signature sound is based in part on dramatic string
 or string-like chord patterns over a bed of beats not that far from
 classic Chicago House.  Contrary to the norm in western music, the
 chords are likely to be 'parallel' -- i.e. a pattern of 4 chords will
 be one chord, transposed from the root 3 times.

 The traditional harmonic rules of Western music, by contrast are more
 parsimonious in tonal motion -- i.e. any two chords in sequence will
 most likely retain any common notes. The transition between two
 dissimilar chords will move from one chord to the inversion of the
 second chord with the least interval distance from the notes of the
 first.

 If you are not a musician, your eyes are probably rolling up in your
 head by now, so more concretely: The Detroit way if played on a piano
 would involve moving your whole hand, but using (roughly) the same
 spacing of your fingers.  The traditional way would keep your hand
 mostly in the same place, but change the spacing between your fingers.

 My suspicion is that the 'Detroit' chords came at least in part from a
 feature of the Roland Alpha Juno synthesizer, which had a feature
 called 'chord memory' -- you could play a chord, push a button, and
 thereafter,  you could play that same chord with one finger on the
 lowest note of the original chord. Or, you could play a transposed
 chord by playing a different single note.

 A perfect example of the meshing of these two approaches in one song
 is UR's 'Jupiter Jazz' -- there is the signature stacatto chords of
 the synthesizer -- with parallel chord transposition, and a denser
 female chorus sound that exhiibits the more traditional conservation
 of harmonic motion.  That contrast and overlay of two different
 harmonic strategies is part of what makes that song so compelling.
 Well, that, and the bubbling acid line. And Mad Mike's soaring synth
 soloing...



Re: (313) free idea for academic paper in Musicology....

2008-09-25 Thread Jacob Arnold
http://www.getitwriteonline.com/archive/032601.htm

Most likely, many people believe they should not start a sentence with a
coordinating conjunction because their grammar teachers in grade school
discouraged them from doing so. Yet such a rule is completely
unjustifiable.

;-)


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 You started a sentence with Or?

 ;-)

 MEK

 kent williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 09/25/2008 10:24:46 AM:

 When I defended my Master's Project I promised myself never to go back
 to school. After nearly 30 years of schooling I realized that I'm a
 terrible student.  Ironically my work now is in an Academic department
 of the College of Medicine. I work with and for professors and grad
 students.  But I just write software -- I leave it to them to do the
 academics. Suckers!

 But every so often I have an idea that has academic potential, and
 when I think of following through on it I break out in a cold sweat.
 But no reason not to share it:
 Detroit Techno's signature sound is based in part on dramatic string
 or string-like chord patterns over a bed of beats not that far from
 classic Chicago House.  Contrary to the norm in western music, the
 chords are likely to be 'parallel' -- i.e. a pattern of 4 chords will
 be one chord, transposed from the root 3 times.

 The traditional harmonic rules of Western music, by contrast are more
 parsimonious in tonal motion -- i.e. any two chords in sequence will
 most likely retain any common notes. The transition between two
 dissimilar chords will move from one chord to the inversion of the
 second chord with the least interval distance from the notes of the
 first.

 If you are not a musician, your eyes are probably rolling up in your
 head by now, so more concretely: The Detroit way if played on a piano
 would involve moving your whole hand, but using (roughly) the same
 spacing of your fingers.  The traditional way would keep your hand
 mostly in the same place, but change the spacing between your fingers.

 My suspicion is that the 'Detroit' chords came at least in part from a
 feature of the Roland Alpha Juno synthesizer, which had a feature
 called 'chord memory' -- you could play a chord, push a button, and
 thereafter,  you could play that same chord with one finger on the
 lowest note of the original chord. Or, you could play a transposed
 chord by playing a different single note.

 A perfect example of the meshing of these two approaches in one song
 is UR's 'Jupiter Jazz' -- there is the signature stacatto chords of
 the synthesizer -- with parallel chord transposition, and a denser
 female chorus sound that exhiibits the more traditional conservation
 of harmonic motion.  That contrast and overlay of two different
 harmonic strategies is part of what makes that song so compelling.
 Well, that, and the bubbling acid line. And Mad Mike's soaring synth
 soloing...






Re: (313) free idea for academic paper in Musicology....

2008-09-25 Thread theREAL

It all depends on whether the sentence really IS a sentence (or a fragment).
Ask any of my former comp students. ;-)

   jeff

Jacob Arnold wrote:

http://www.getitwriteonline.com/archive/032601.htm

Most likely, many people believe they should not start a sentence with a
coordinating conjunction because their grammar teachers in grade school
discouraged them from doing so. Yet such a rule is completely
unjustifiable.

;-)


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  

You started a sentence with Or?

;-)

MEK

kent williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 09/25/2008 10:24:46 AM:



When I defended my Master's Project I promised myself never to go back
to school. After nearly 30 years of schooling I realized that I'm a
terrible student.  Ironically my work now is in an Academic department
of the College of Medicine. I work with and for professors and grad
students.  But I just write software -- I leave it to them to do the
academics. Suckers!

But every so often I have an idea that has academic potential, and
when I think of following through on it I break out in a cold sweat.
But no reason not to share it:
Detroit Techno's signature sound is based in part on dramatic string
or string-like chord patterns over a bed of beats not that far from
classic Chicago House.  Contrary to the norm in western music, the
chords are likely to be 'parallel' -- i.e. a pattern of 4 chords will
be one chord, transposed from the root 3 times.

The traditional harmonic rules of Western music, by contrast are more
parsimonious in tonal motion -- i.e. any two chords in sequence will
most likely retain any common notes. The transition between two
dissimilar chords will move from one chord to the inversion of the
second chord with the least interval distance from the notes of the
first.

If you are not a musician, your eyes are probably rolling up in your
head by now, so more concretely: The Detroit way if played on a piano
would involve moving your whole hand, but using (roughly) the same
spacing of your fingers.  The traditional way would keep your hand
mostly in the same place, but change the spacing between your fingers.

My suspicion is that the 'Detroit' chords came at least in part from a
feature of the Roland Alpha Juno synthesizer, which had a feature
called 'chord memory' -- you could play a chord, push a button, and
thereafter,  you could play that same chord with one finger on the
lowest note of the original chord. Or, you could play a transposed
chord by playing a different single note.

A perfect example of the meshing of these two approaches in one song
is UR's 'Jupiter Jazz' -- there is the signature stacatto chords of
the synthesizer -- with parallel chord transposition, and a denser
female chorus sound that exhiibits the more traditional conservation
of harmonic motion.  That contrast and overlay of two different
harmonic strategies is part of what makes that song so compelling.
Well, that, and the bubbling acid line. And Mad Mike's soaring synth
soloing...
  






  




Re: (313) free idea for academic paper in Musicology....

2008-09-25 Thread kent williams
Note that a) it was a complete sentence and b) what Jacob said.  It is
also something that would be completely reasonable in spoken English.

On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 1:01 PM, theREAL [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 It all depends on whether the sentence really IS a sentence (or a fragment).
 Ask any of my former comp students. ;-)

   jeff

 Jacob Arnold wrote:

 http://www.getitwriteonline.com/archive/032601.htm

 Most likely, many people believe they should not start a sentence with a
 coordinating conjunction because their grammar teachers in grade school
 discouraged them from doing so. Yet such a rule is completely
 unjustifiable.

 ;-)


 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 You started a sentence with Or?

 ;-)

 MEK

 kent williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 09/25/2008 10:24:46 AM:



 When I defended my Master's Project I promised myself never to go back
 to school. After nearly 30 years of schooling I realized that I'm a
 terrible student.  Ironically my work now is in an Academic department
 of the College of Medicine. I work with and for professors and grad
 students.  But I just write software -- I leave it to them to do the
 academics. Suckers!

 But every so often I have an idea that has academic potential, and
 when I think of following through on it I break out in a cold sweat.
 But no reason not to share it:
 Detroit Techno's signature sound is based in part on dramatic string
 or string-like chord patterns over a bed of beats not that far from
 classic Chicago House.  Contrary to the norm in western music, the
 chords are likely to be 'parallel' -- i.e. a pattern of 4 chords will
 be one chord, transposed from the root 3 times.

 The traditional harmonic rules of Western music, by contrast are more
 parsimonious in tonal motion -- i.e. any two chords in sequence will
 most likely retain any common notes. The transition between two
 dissimilar chords will move from one chord to the inversion of the
 second chord with the least interval distance from the notes of the
 first.

 If you are not a musician, your eyes are probably rolling up in your
 head by now, so more concretely: The Detroit way if played on a piano
 would involve moving your whole hand, but using (roughly) the same
 spacing of your fingers.  The traditional way would keep your hand
 mostly in the same place, but change the spacing between your fingers.

 My suspicion is that the 'Detroit' chords came at least in part from a
 feature of the Roland Alpha Juno synthesizer, which had a feature
 called 'chord memory' -- you could play a chord, push a button, and
 thereafter,  you could play that same chord with one finger on the
 lowest note of the original chord. Or, you could play a transposed
 chord by playing a different single note.

 A perfect example of the meshing of these two approaches in one song
 is UR's 'Jupiter Jazz' -- there is the signature stacatto chords of
 the synthesizer -- with parallel chord transposition, and a denser
 female chorus sound that exhiibits the more traditional conservation
 of harmonic motion.  That contrast and overlay of two different
 harmonic strategies is part of what makes that song so compelling.
 Well, that, and the bubbling acid line. And Mad Mike's soaring synth
 soloing...










Re: (313) New Luomo--Paper Tigers

2006-10-16 Thread Matt MacQueen


On Oct 13, 2006, at 6:54 PM, Wes Prince wrote:


http://www.luomoweb.com/

...beautiful.


I like this too... really don't mind is pretty great.   I see the  
mp3 and CD is for sale... anyone know if there's vinyl available?   
(old habits die hard)


peace


--
MM
http://sonicsunset.com
http://moodmat.com




Re: (313) New Luomo--Paper Tigers

2006-10-16 Thread Matt Kane's Brain

Looks like a solid sorta: http://www.discogs.com/release/759623

On Oct 15, 2006, at 21:35, Matt MacQueen wrote:



On Oct 13, 2006, at 6:54 PM, Wes Prince wrote:


http://www.luomoweb.com/

...beautiful.


I like this too... really don't mind is pretty great.   I see the  
mp3 and CD is for sale... anyone know if there's vinyl available?   
(old habits die hard)


peace


--
MM
http://sonicsunset.com
http://moodmat.com



--
matt kane's brain
http://hydrogenproject.com
aim - mkbatwerk
[EMAIL PROTECTED]




Re: (313) New Luomo--Paper Tigers

2006-10-16 Thread Jernej Marusic
still waiting for my CD to arrive, but I've been enjoying the really 
don't mind 12 and listened to the promo thats floating around, with 
delays baby crying over the music every couple of minutes :)


looks like there will be another vinyl single Good to be with
http://www.huumerecordings.com/seasonal


Jernej
www.octex.si

Matt Kane's Brain wrote:

Looks like a solid sorta: http://www.discogs.com/release/759623

On Oct 15, 2006, at 21:35, Matt MacQueen wrote:



On Oct 13, 2006, at 6:54 PM, Wes Prince wrote:


http://www.luomoweb.com/

...beautiful.


I like this too... really don't mind is pretty great.   I see the 
mp3 and CD is for sale... anyone know if there's vinyl available?  
(old habits die hard)


peace


--
MM
http://sonicsunset.com
http://moodmat.com



--
matt kane's brain
http://hydrogenproject.com
aim - mkbatwerk
[EMAIL PROTECTED]







(313) New Luomo--Paper Tigers

2006-10-13 Thread Wes Prince
http://www.luomoweb.com/

...beautiful.

-- 

Wes Prince, Ph.DAuckland, New Zealand
~




(313) I Bet It Looked Good On Paper

2006-03-01 Thread Martin Dust

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVUUCdZA_EI

Should have stayed meta...

m



Re: (313) I Bet It Looked Good On Paper

2006-03-01 Thread Ian Cheshire
ha ha classicStevie Wonder kinda saves it for me but then only for a
short period..

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVUUCdZA_EI

 Should have stayed meta...

 m





-- 
www.midnightbeats.de
www.reactor-bookings.com
www.aonpromotions.com
www.kube72.com




Re: (313) I Bet It Looked Good On Paper

2006-03-01 Thread Michael . Elliot-Knight




LOL!! - I love right before Stevie starts singing (the best part).  They're
all randomly jumping from keyboard to keyboard.  Thomas Dolby is playing a
303 that is triggering samples?  Then he and Stevie are practically jumping
up and down on the keys.  It's complete chaos when the vocoder voice-over
says Get it together guys...

Dolby looks like Weird Al Yankovic and truly seems to be getting into it,
Herbie Hancock tries to keep up the enthusiasm, Howard Jones is looking for
the exit toward the end, and it might have been the only time Stevie was
happy to be blind.

I'm addicted to this car crash - it's brilliant

MEK





   
 Ian Cheshire
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 yonder.co.uk  To 
   Martin Dust [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 03/01/06 07:34 AM  cc 
   313@Hyperreal.Org 313 
   313@hyperreal.org 
 Please respond to Subject 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Re: (313) I Bet It Looked Good On   
onder.co.ukPaper   
   
   
   
   
   
   




ha ha classicStevie Wonder kinda saves it for me but then only for a
short period..

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVUUCdZA_EI

 Should have stayed meta...

 m





--
www.midnightbeats.de
www.reactor-bookings.com
www.aonpromotions.com
www.kube72.com






Re: (313) I Bet It Looked Good On Paper

2006-03-01 Thread djwillweb

Wow!!! YouTube is awsome!!!
Strawberry Switchblade, Rita Mitsouko, Housemartins, DM 
takes me back..


A the good ol days...


- Original Message - 
From: Martin Dust [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: 313@Hyperreal.Org 313 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 8:08 AM
Subject: (313) I Bet It Looked Good On Paper



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVUUCdZA_EI

Should have stayed meta...

m




Re: [313] News clipping from today's paper

2002-04-19 Thread Michael D Tyrer
Sorry - i hope people dont think this too off topic - and I would agree
certainly lets not (here) start any discussions on the merits of drugs - but
I did feel that this was of some relevance:  Its the so called dangers and
distributions of E that the authorities so often use as the major excuse to
persecute people who try to put parties on.
- Original Message -
From: Matthew MacQueen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
With all due respect (and I mean that) to people really interested in
ecstasy, I always come back to 313 because as a list it discussed and
celebrated the city and it's flavors of electronic music more than it
focused on the other elements of the party scene(s).  All I'm asking is that
we please not turn this thread into a forum for debate on the effects of
various drugs?


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[313] News clipping from today's paper

2002-04-18 Thread Michael D Tyrer
Ecstasy theory 'may be flawed'
Research claiming that ecstasy damages the brain is flawed and has misled
politicians and the public, scientists said today.
An inquiry by New Scientist magazine found that many of the findings
purporting to show long or short-term damage could not be trusted because of
huge variations in results.
In addition, said the report, other scientific journals appeared reluctant
to publish 'null' results which showed no difference in tests comparing
ecstasy users with non-users.



must send this to my dear ma-ma . i've been trying to tell her this 4
years

Regards
Mike Tyrer
020 7701 7113
07949 232 174



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RE: [313] News clipping from today's paper

2002-04-18 Thread Matthew MacQueen
 Ecstasy theory 'may be flawed'
 Research claiming that ecstasy damages the brain is flawed and has misled
 politicians and the public, scientists said today.

With all due respect (and I mean that) to people really interested in ecstasy, 
I always come back to 313 because as a list it discussed and celebrated the 
city and it's flavors of electronic music more than it focused on the other 
elements of the party scene(s).  All I'm asking is that we please not turn this 
thread into a forum for debate on the effects of various drugs?

Respectfully,
Matt MacQueen

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Jaguar paper

2000-12-17 Thread christos
This is the last email about it I swear (and sorry for any cross posts),
but the final draft of my Jaguar UR/Sony/BMG paper is up and on the web,
along with all of my sources.  If you read the rough draft, I did not add
much, just a little bit about content commodification.  Oh yeah, and the
URL is www-personal.umich.edu/~michalak.  Please feel free to email me any
feedback if you read it.  

-christos



jaguar paper...

2000-11-23 Thread christos
If anyone is interested, I have a rough draft (only a rough draft) of my
Jaguar paper on my website www-personal.umich.edu/~michalak Check it out
if you want, and I encourage feedback, both positive and negative.

---
Christos Michalakis If you want to kiss the sky, you better learn how
734.332.1256 to kneel
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   -Paul Hewson
---




paper

2000-11-13 Thread christos
Some of you may remember that I am writting a paper on media conglomerates
trying to sell unerground music/culture, and that I am trying to get as
much information as I can about the UR vs. Sony case.  I know that this
has been asked recently, and I apologize for that, but can anyone tell me
who officially produced the fake Jaguar, what label it is currently on,
and where I can find information about it, including an mp3 of it?  Thanks
in advance and hit me up privatly if necessary.

-christos



pAPER RECORDINGS

2000-10-24 Thread Perry, Jeff
cOULD some one point me to some audio of paper recordings?

Comments on this label?  I don't think i've heard them.  POinters to some
good
releases?



Re: [313] pAPER RECORDINGS

2000-10-24 Thread Paul Hudson
They have a website at  http://paper.state51.co.uk/
I think that has some audio clips on it.

Hope that helps.
Paul

 cOULD some one point me to some audio of paper recordings?
 
 Comments on this label?  I don't think i've heard them.  POinters to some
 good
 releases?
 




Re: [313] pAPER RECORDINGS

2000-10-24 Thread Paul V


www.paperecordings.com

audio in the back catalogue


From: Perry, Jeff [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 313@hyperreal.org, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [313] pAPER RECORDINGS
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 11:42:00 -0400

cOULD some one point me to some audio of paper recordings?

Comments on this label?  I don't think i've heard them.  POinters to some
good
releases?


-
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For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: [313] pAPER RECORDINGS

2000-10-24 Thread DJ DMT
paper 001 classic write the book if correcT
022 lara's them as featured on 1 Juan Atkins mixcd (ah 313)
   036 classic to be Grazy pennis aka todd ?? problem kids


all eye got
- Original Message -
From: Paul V [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 6:17 PM
Subject: Re: [313] pAPER RECORDINGS



 www.paperecordings.com

 audio in the back catalogue

 From: Perry, Jeff [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: 313@hyperreal.org, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: [313] pAPER RECORDINGS
 Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 11:42:00 -0400
 
 cOULD some one point me to some audio of paper recordings?
 
 Comments on this label?  I don't think i've heard them.  POinters to some
 good
 releases?
 
 
 -
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 

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 Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

 Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
 http://profiles.msn.com.


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