Re: Google Address Lookup/ Autocomplete

[Sujit Shah via 4D_Tech]

OK Got it

There are 2 API keys needed one for Google Maps and one for Google Places.

Just for the record..


On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 3:41 PM, Sujit Shah  wrote:

> Hmm.. I am able to get the Address Validate to work but not the
> Auto-Complete.
>
> JSON Parse Object is saying: "This API project is not authorised to use
> this API..."
>
> This is using my own key. I have replaced it in both places ie
> Demo_Validate and Demo_Predict
>
> ??
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 12:32 PM, Sujit Shah  wrote:
>
>> Very good! Thanks.
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 11:11 AM, Scott Staley via 4D_Tech <
>> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> The 4D method user group did a presentation that included an address
>>> validation app using google maps api.  The url to the website page that
>>> includes the 4D sample database is shown below.
>>>
>>>  https://4dmethod.com/2015/07/08/next-meeting-july-30-priority-mail/
>>>
>>> fyi... The sample database uses a key code that has expired.  Google now
>>> requires a key code to access their apis and so you will need to get a
>>> valid
>>> key code to use the sample.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> View this message in context: http://4d.1045681.n5.nabble.co
>>> m/Google-Address-Lookup-Autocomplete-tp5751116p5751117.html
>>> Sent from the 4D Tech mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>> **
>>> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
>>> FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
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>>> **
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> xxx
>> "There must be ingenuity as well as intention, strategy as well as
>> strength. "
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> xxx
> "There must be ingenuity as well as intention, strategy as well as
> strength. "
>
>



-- 

xxx
"There must be ingenuity as well as intention, strategy as well as
strength. "
**
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Re: Google Address Lookup/ Autocomplete

[Sujit Shah via 4D_Tech]

Hmm.. I am able to get the Address Validate to work but not the
Auto-Complete.

JSON Parse Object is saying: "This API project is not authorised to use
this API..."

This is using my own key. I have replaced it in both places ie
Demo_Validate and Demo_Predict

??



On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 12:32 PM, Sujit Shah  wrote:

> Very good! Thanks.
>
> On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 11:11 AM, Scott Staley via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> The 4D method user group did a presentation that included an address
>> validation app using google maps api.  The url to the website page that
>> includes the 4D sample database is shown below.
>>
>>  https://4dmethod.com/2015/07/08/next-meeting-july-30-priority-mail/
>>
>> fyi... The sample database uses a key code that has expired.  Google now
>> requires a key code to access their apis and so you will need to get a
>> valid
>> key code to use the sample.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://4d.1045681.n5.nabble.co
>> m/Google-Address-Lookup-Autocomplete-tp5751116p5751117.html
>> Sent from the 4D Tech mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> **
>> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
>> FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
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>> Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
>> Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
>> **
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> xxx
> "There must be ingenuity as well as intention, strategy as well as
> strength. "
>
>



-- 

xxx
"There must be ingenuity as well as intention, strategy as well as
strength. "
**
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Re: Google Address Lookup/ Autocomplete

[Sujit Shah via 4D_Tech]

Very good! Thanks.

On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 11:11 AM, Scott Staley via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

>
> The 4D method user group did a presentation that included an address
> validation app using google maps api.  The url to the website page that
> includes the 4D sample database is shown below.
>
>  https://4dmethod.com/2015/07/08/next-meeting-july-30-priority-mail/
>
> fyi... The sample database uses a key code that has expired.  Google now
> requires a key code to access their apis and so you will need to get a
> valid
> key code to use the sample.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://4d.1045681.n5.nabble.
> com/Google-Address-Lookup-Autocomplete-tp5751116p5751117.html
> Sent from the 4D Tech mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> **
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
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-- 

xxx
"There must be ingenuity as well as intention, strategy as well as
strength. "
**
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Re: Question about passing JSON to 4D

[David Adams via 4D_Tech]

On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 10:35 AM, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> WEB GET VARIABLES only parses form variables (x-www-form-urlencoded).
>
> and then, jQuery post() only sends x-www-form-urlencoded.

...snip...

Thanks for the fantastic answer. I can easily imagine spending a couple of
(very frustrating) hours trying to figure that out.

Is there any chance that you could get this added to the docs and/or made
into a Tech Tip?
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Re: Google Address Lookup/ Autocomplete

[Scott Staley via 4D_Tech]

The 4D method user group did a presentation that included an address
validation app using google maps api.  The url to the website page that
includes the 4D sample database is shown below.  

 https://4dmethod.com/2015/07/08/next-meeting-july-30-priority-mail/

fyi... The sample database uses a key code that has expired.  Google now
requires a key code to access their apis and so you will need to get a valid
key code to use the sample.





--
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Sent from the 4D Tech mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Google Address Lookup/ Autocomplete

[Sujit Shah via 4D_Tech]

I am wondering if anyone has developed code to integrate with their API
within the context of a 4D Form?



-- 

xxx
"There must be ingenuity as well as intention, strategy as well as
strength. "
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Re: Question about passing JSON to 4D

[Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech]

WEB GET VARIABLES only parses form variables (x-www-form-urlencoded).

and then, jQuery post() only sends x-www-form-urlencoded.

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5529685/post-doesnt-send-data-as-json-but-as-x-www-form-urlencoded-instead

so with this setup,
you are basically working with a string variable whose name is "data"
and whose content just happens to look like JSON.

if you want to directly work with JSON,
then you need to use jQuery ajax (not post) as explained in the SO post above,
and use
WEB GET HTTP HEADER
WEB GET HTTP BODY PARTS/WEB GET HTTP BODY
JSON Parse/JSON PARSE ARRAY
with appropriate error handling instead of WEB GET VARIABLES.



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Re: Question about passing JSON to 4D

[Lee Hinde via 4D_Tech]

WEB GET HTTP BODY($body)
http://doc.4d.com/4Dv15/4D/15.4/WEB-GET-HTTP-BODY.301-3275031.en.html

> On Apr 4, 2017, at 5:16 PM, Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hi folks,
> 
> I need a little guidance here. I have a web form (in a browser) that is
> submitting data to 4D. I collect the data on the webform into an object
> then stringify it for passing to 4D - like so:
> 
> var postData = JSON.stringify(woData);
> $.post( "/workorder/data", postData)
> .done(function(data) {
> if(data.error){ // show the error
> swal(data.error, '', 'warning');
> } else {
> swal(data.pageMsg, '', 'success');
> }
> })
> .fail(function() {
> swal('Fail!');
> })
> .always(function() {
> // alert( "complete" );
> });
> 
> 
> ​I​ expected (because I saw it work this way in Tim Penner's great example
> db) on the 4D side I could do something like this:
> 
> ARRAY TEXT($at_names;0)
> ARRAY TEXT($at_values;0)
> WEB GET VARIABLES($at_names;$at_values)
> 
> ​and $at_names{1} would equal "data" and ​$
> at_values
> ​{1} would be the JSON.
> 
> Instead what I get is ​
> 
> $at_names{1} = first part of the JSON
> $at_values{1} = the second part of the JSON
> 
> ​Now, the good news is this seems to be consistent. I can concatenate the
> two parts and parse it fine.
> But I don't understand why it's working this way.
> 
> ​The data payload varies in length but isn't huge. It contains a few
> fields, some text and a couple of JSON arrays. It is too long to encode
> into the URL though so
> 
> $.post( "/workorder?data=" + postData)
> 
> ​doesn't work. (I tried.)
> 
> ​I'm hoping someone can either correct my approach or assure me it's OK.
> 
> Thanks, I really appreciate the help. ​
> 
> 
> -- 
> Kirk Brooks
> San Francisco, CA
> ===
> 
> *The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
> nothing.*
> 
> *- Edmund Burke*
> **
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Question about passing JSON to 4D

[Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech]

Hi folks,

I need a little guidance here. I have a web form (in a browser) that is
submitting data to 4D. I collect the data on the webform into an object
then stringify it for passing to 4D - like so:

var postData = JSON.stringify(woData);
$.post( "/workorder/data", postData)
.done(function(data) {
if(data.error){ // show the error
swal(data.error, '', 'warning');
} else {
swal(data.pageMsg, '', 'success');
}
})
.fail(function() {
swal('Fail!');
})
.always(function() {
// alert( "complete" );
});


​I​ expected (because I saw it work this way in Tim Penner's great example
db) on the 4D side I could do something like this:

ARRAY TEXT($at_names;0)
ARRAY TEXT($at_values;0)
WEB GET VARIABLES($at_names;$at_values)

​and $at_names{1} would equal "data" and ​$
at_values
​{1} would be the JSON.

Instead what I get is ​

$at_names{1} = first part of the JSON
$at_values{1} = the second part of the JSON

​Now, the good news is this seems to be consistent. I can concatenate the
two parts and parse it fine.
But I don't understand why it's working this way.

​The data payload varies in length but isn't huge. It contains a few
fields, some text and a couple of JSON arrays. It is too long to encode
into the URL though so

$.post( "/workorder?data=" + postData)

​doesn't work. (I tried.)

​I'm hoping someone can either correct my approach or assure me it's OK.

Thanks, I really appreciate the help. ​


-- 
Kirk Brooks
San Francisco, CA
===

*The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing.*

*- Edmund Burke*
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Re: delete or truncate

[Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech]

ALL RECORDS + DELETE SELECTION,
or selecting all records and deleting them in User Mode
logs "delete" action for each record in the journal file.

TRUNCATE TABLE, on the other hand, has its own single action in the journal 
file.

"Truncate" clears the address table, whereas "Delete" does not.
the main advantage of keeping the same (fragmented) address table
is that saves sets continue to work after a data compact.

the disadvantage is that isolated addresses may take longer to locate.

c.f
http://kb.4d.com/assetid=76195
http://kb.4d.com/assetid=76209
http://kb.4d.com/assetid=76414

tip: search for "compact@" at kb.4d.com
to find articles that refer to compacting.

typically one would end up with a fragmented address table
when a table with a relatively low number of records
has had a high record count some time in the past.
(the address count corresponds to the peak count)

a2017/04/05 2:43、Charles Miller via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> のメール：
>
> I seem to remember a tech note or example that would fix index problems
> that you would have when deleting most of the record in a able or or
> truncating it.




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Re: 4D Compiler

[David Adams via 4D_Tech]

Nigel,

The Compiler changed some versions back and no longer detects all error sin
one pass...at least in certain situations. A few tips and things to look
out for:

* If you've got a missing method, the Compiler usually stops reporting
errors, even if there are multiple cases of the problem.

* Sometimes, code doesn't seem to be scanned. I use a method to retokenize
all methods (pasted below) which helps. Note that you get an error on this
most of the time when the method tries to retokenize itself.

* If you compile with 'all variables are typed ' (and you are likely to
find more genuine errors this way), then periodically do a syntax check
with 'type the variables.' If you've got inconsistent declarations, this
can turn them up.

There are still a number of things that the compiler won't do - even in V16:

* Check parameter list lengths and detect extra params in some cases.

* Check parameter list lengths and detect missing params in any case.
(There's no syntax to declare a method parameter as optional in 4D.)

* Check method name references, like with New process, ON ERR CALL, etc.
There's also still no way to declare that a parameter is a method reference.

I've already got a feature request in at forums.4d.fr for these
improvements. If you like these ideas, or have related suggestions, please
comment and vote here:

Compiler/Typing Improvements: Detect some runtime errors in advance
http://forums.4d.fr/Post/EN/19107688/1/19107689

I have to say, I've got zero evidence to make be believe that the forum
voting makes any difference at all...but I'm new over there. So, maybe I
does. I do know that 4D officially ignores comments on this list, so
everything here is just chat. If, like many of us, you don't guess how to
vote properly, here's a Tech Tip that Tim Penner kindly pointed out not too
long ago:

Tech Tip: How to vote for a feature request
http://kb.4d.com/assetid=76726

Here's that method I promised earlier. The subroutine names are pretty
self-explanatory.

If (False)
  Method_RetokenizeAllCode

// Adapted from a NUG thread in September of 2015.
// From: Vincent de Lachaux
// Date: Wednesday, September 23, 2015
// Subject: Re-Tokenize Methods Procedurally
// To: 4D iNug Technical<4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
End if

C_BOOLEAN($1;$confirm_first)

$confirm_first:=True
If (Count parameters>=1)
  $confirm_first:=$1
End if

C_BOOLEAN($continue)
$continue:=True

If (System_IsCompiled )
//Method_AlertIfRunningCompiled ("Method retokenization does not work
in compiled mode.")
  $continue:=False
End if

OK:=0
If ($continue & $confirm_first)
  C_TEXT($message)
  $message:=""
  $message:=$message+"Please make a backup of the structure if you haven't
already."+Char(Carriage return)+Char(Carriage return)
  $message:=$message+"Close any methods currently open in the Design
environment before proceeding."+Char(Carriage return)+Char(Carriage return)
  $message:=$message+"Retokenize all methods now?"

  CONFIRM($message)
  $continue:=OK=1
End if

If ($continue)
  C_TEXT($icon_path)
  C_LONGINT($progress_id)
  C_BOOLEAN($enable_close)
  $icon_path:=Resources_GetImageFilePath ("Validate_Code_Large.png")
  $enable_close:=True
  $progress_id:=Progress_Open ("Retokenizing all
code";$icon_path;$enable_close)

  ARRAY TEXT($method_paths_at;0)
  METHOD GET PATHS(Path all objects;$method_paths_at;*)

  C_LONGINT($paths_count)
  C_LONGINT($path_index)
  $paths_count:=Size of array($method_paths_at)
  For ($path_index;1;$paths_count)
C_TEXT($method_path)
$method_path:=$method_paths_at{$path_index}

Progress_Update ($progress_id;$method_path;$path_index/$paths_count)

C_TEXT($method_text)
METHOD GET CODE($method_path;$method_text;*)
METHOD SET CODE($method_path;$method_text;*)
  End for

  Progress_Close ($progress_id)
End if
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Re: check for duplicates in v15

[Chuck Miller via 4D_Tech]

Thanks that must be it I should remember that

Regards
Chuck

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 4, 2017, at 5:41 PM, Wayne Stewart via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Only the first 1024 characters are indexed.

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Re: check for duplicates in v15

[Wayne Stewart via 4D_Tech]

Chuck,

This may be related:

http://doc.4d.com/4Dv16/4D/16/Creating-and-modifying-indexes.300-3048980.en.html

Only the first 1024 characters are indexed.

Wayne

On Wed, 5 Apr 2017 at 06:57, Charles Miller via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> Hi All
>
> I have in pseudo code the following
>
> distinct values on a text field, that can be anywhere from 5 or 6
> characters to >1000
>
> These text fields are supposed to bed unique in in fact are. However, the
> resultant array is not the same size as numbers of records.
>
> I know it is the same, as I added a field and did a hash on the text and
> when I do a distinct on that field I get same number of elements as records
> in table. Any idea as to why. It would appear that distinct does not use
> entire field length!!
>
> Regards
>
> Chuck
> --
>
> -
>  Chuck Miller Voice: (617) 739-0306 Fax: (617) 232-1064
>  Informed Solutions, Inc.
>  Brookline, MA 02446 USA Registered 4D Developer
>Providers of 4D, Sybase & SQL Sever connectivity
>   http://www.informed-solutions.com
>
> -
> This message and any attached documents contain information which may be
> confidential, subject to privilege or exempt from disclosure under
> applicable law.  These materials are intended only for the use of the
> intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient of this
> transmission, you are hereby notified that any distribution, disclosure,
> printing, copying, storage, modification or the taking of any action in
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Regards,

Wayne


[image: --]
Wayne Stewart
[image: http://]about.me/waynestewart

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RE: Anyone using v16 in WAN

[Timothy Penner via 4D_Tech]

Hi Chuck,

> OK what about when I connect from a v11 single user via sql row  64 BIT Mac 
> server. What network layer does it use.

Your v11 SingleUser app is definitely using the legacy network, it does not 
know about the New Network Layer.
Your 64 bit Mac Server is definitely using the new network layer, it does not 
support the legacy network.

But that doesn't matter -

The new network layer handles communications between 4D Server and remote 4D 
machines (clients).
The new network layer does not handle SQL/ODBC/Web/SOAP connections; only 
Client-Server.

So, connecting via SQL/ODBC connections should not be affected by the network 
layer or running on Mac 64 bit...
However, if you were to try to connect v11 as a 4D Client to the 64 bit Mac 
Server you would get error -19191


Refs:
http://doc.4d.com/4Dv16R2/4D/16-R2.1620/Network-and-Client-Server-options.300-3176533.en.html#1882948
http://doc.4d.com/4Dv15/4D/15/Compatibility-page.300-2045494.en.html
http://kb.4d.com/assetid=77427


-Tim



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check for duplicates in v15

[Charles Miller via 4D_Tech]

Hi All

I have in pseudo code the following

distinct values on a text field, that can be anywhere from 5 or 6
characters to >1000

These text fields are supposed to bed unique in in fact are. However, the
resultant array is not the same size as numbers of records.

I know it is the same, as I added a field and did a hash on the text and
when I do a distinct on that field I get same number of elements as records
in table. Any idea as to why. It would appear that distinct does not use
entire field length!!

Regards

Chuck
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RE: Anyone using v16 in WAN

[Dennis, Neil via 4D_Tech]

> OK what about when I connect from a v11 single user via sql row  64 BIT Mac 
> server.
> What network layer does it use. I have been running tests with v15 latest hot 
> fix. I have many disparate connection types.

If I had to take a guess, you are using the new network layer (as that is all 
the 64 Bit Mac knows)

There are some differences in client and SQL connections as they connect to 
different ports. However also keep in mind they are not changing the network 
protocol but the implementation of the network protocol. Something like an SQL 
connection shouldn't need to change based on what the server is speaking.

Agreed it would be a good topic for the World Tour

Neil


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RE: Anyone using v16 in WAN

[Timothy Penner via 4D_Tech]

Apparently my last post still wasn't clear so let me try again -


The new network layer is *required* if you are using:
* 4D Server 64 bit on Mac
* 4D 64 bit on Mac
* 4D 64 bit on Win
^ If you use any of these in your deployment you MUST use the new network layer 
because these products do not "understand" the legacy network, they only 
"understand" the new network layer.


The new network layer is *optional* if you are using:
* 4D Server 64 bit on Win
* 4D Server 32 bit on Mac
* 4D Server 32 bit on Win
* 4D 32 bit on Mac
* 4D 32 bit on Win
^ the products listed above can use *EITHER* the legacy network or the new 
network.



-Tim




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Re: Anyone using v16 in WAN

[Charles Miller via 4D_Tech]

On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 3:38 PM, Charles Miller 
wrote:

> This is true, you need to use the new network layer with a 64 bit MAC
>> server... legacy network doesn't exist.
>>
>>
>> Neil
>>
>>
> Ohm thanks to all. This was not how I understood it.


OK what about when I connect from a v11 single user via sql row  64 BIT Mac
server. What network layer does it use. I have been running tests with v15
latest hot fix. I have many disparate connection types.

4D single user to server to transfer data from inside the same network and
in the same building
4D single user to server to transfer data from inside the same network but
not in same building (connections speeds and types varies)

4D built clients connecting  to server from inside the same network and in
the same building
4D built clients connecting  to server from outside (WAN).

How does this change things and what to do about setting timeouts for this
type of setup

Thanks and boy do I wish this was more clear. I will be asking this at 4D
class on Thursday and Friday in Boston. I will report on answers I get there

Regards
Chuck


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Re: Anyone using v16 in WAN

[Charles Miller via 4D_Tech]

On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 3:37 PM, Dennis, Neil via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

>
> This is true, you need to use the new network layer with a 64 bit MAC
> server... legacy network doesn't exist.
>
>
> Neil
>
>
Ohm thanks to all. This was not how I understood it.

Regards

Chuck


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RE: Anyone using v16 in WAN

[Dennis, Neil via 4D_Tech]

> (Mac and Windows clients) and connect to a MAC server using 64 bit

This is true, you need to use the new network layer with a 64 bit MAC server... 
legacy network doesn't exist.

Neil








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Re: Anyone using v16 in WAN

[Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech]

Since you're using a 64-bit Mac server you have to use the new network layer. 
If you had a 64-bit Windows server with 32-bit clients, you could use the 
legacy (i.e. reliable) network layer.

> On Apr 4, 2017, at 2:13 PM, Charles Miller via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> OK I am a little confused. Ifs I build clients using 32 bit volume (Mac and
> Windows clients) and connect to a MAC server using 64 bit server, the new
> network layer is always used? or not? I thought 32 bit volume desktops did
> *NOT* support the new network layer

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RE: Anyone using v16 in WAN

[Dennis, Neil via 4D_Tech]

> OK I am a little confused. Ifs I build clients using 32 bit volume (Mac and 
> Windows clients) and 
> connect to a MAC server using 64 bit server, the new network layer is always 
> used? or not? 
> I thought 32 bit volume desktops did
> *NOT* support the new network layer

That would be 4D 32 bit, legacy network not required. Legacy network may not 
even be available... but absolutely not required.

Does that help?

Neil




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Re: Anyone using v16 in WAN

[Charles Miller via 4D_Tech]

On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 2:31 PM, Timothy Penner via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> The new network layer is required (legacy network not supported) if you
> are using:
>
> * 4D Server 64 bit on Mac
> * 4D 64 bit on Mac
> * 4D 64 bit on Win
>
> The new network layer is not required (legacy network supported) if you
> are using:
>
> * 4D Server 64 bit on Win
> * 4D Server 32 bit on Mac
> * 4D Server 32 bit on Win
> * 4D 32 bit on Mac
> * 4D 32 bit on Win
>

OK I am a little confused. Ifs I build clients using 32 bit volume (Mac and
Windows clients) and connect to a MAC server using 64 bit server, the new
network layer is always used? or not? I thought 32 bit volume desktops did
*NOT* support the new network layer

Regards
Chuck


-- 
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 Chuck Miller Voice: (617) 739-0306 Fax: (617) 232-1064
 Informed Solutions, Inc.
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  http://www.informed-solutions.com
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RE: delete or truncate

[Randy Engle via 4D_Tech]

Re: " To me, Truncate table is sort of the "Holy Hand Grenade"

I love TRUNCATE TABLE...

I think of it as the "Molecular Disruption Device" ( from Ender's Game)

When you really want to clean things up, with no witnesses left standing.

;-)

Randy Engle
XC2 Software LLC


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RE: delete or truncate

[Dennis, Neil via 4D_Tech]

> I am using truncate. I just want to make sure that by using this command then 
> then running MSC repair,
> I will get new fast indices for these tables and table space will be correct. 
> If one uses delete command and deletes
> most of the records table space is screwed up. That was my real question. I 
> was just not erudite enough to show it

I use truncate frequently and have seen no issues with it.
Keep in mind if you use delete triggers, they don't fire during a truncate 
table.

Neil






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Re: delete or truncate

[Charles Miller via 4D_Tech]

On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 2:04 PM, Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> It's a command whose function is to clear all the tablespace allocated to
> records in a given table along with the associated indexes.
>
> Delete selection is used to delete one or more records, ensuring that
> indexes and relational integrity constraints are enforced for each record
> deleted.
>
> I've used truncate a couple of times and it's *very* fast. In a V13 system,
> Truncate table deleted 10 GB of tablespace//11MM records in 10 seconds
> (MacBook Pro with SSD).
>
I am using truncate. I just want to make sure that by using this command
then then running MSC repair, I will get new fast indices for these tables
and table space will be correct. If one uses delete command and deletes
most of the records table space is screwed up. That was my real question. I
was just not erudite enough to show it

Regards and thanks

Chuck



-- 
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 Chuck Miller Voice: (617) 739-0306 Fax: (617) 232-1064
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RE: delete or truncate

[Stephen J. Orth via 4D_Tech]

Doug,

Yeah, this command lets you do a LOT of damage, very quickly, with no real 
recourse...   ;-)


Steve

-Original Message-
From: 4D_Tech [mailto:4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com] On Behalf Of Douglas von 
Roeder via 4D_Tech
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 1:35 PM
To: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
Cc: Douglas von Roeder 
Subject: Re: delete or truncate

Steve:

Very good point about a transaction.

Reading Chuck's posting, I got the impression that this would be done on an
"as needed" basis.

To me, Truncate table is sort of the "Holy Hand Grenade", sort of like in
the 4D Server betas when Array to selection would delete records.


--
Douglas von Roeder
949-336-2902


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Re: delete or truncate

[Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech]

Steve:

Very good point about a transaction.

Reading Chuck's posting, I got the impression that this would be done on an
"as needed" basis.

To me, Truncate table is sort of the "Holy Hand Grenade", sort of like in
the 4D Server betas when Array to selection would delete records.


--
Douglas von Roeder
949-336-2902

On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 11:19 AM, Stephen J. Orth via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> Tim,
>
> It appears to be back up again, but it was down for a bit, along with the
> 4D website.
>
>
> Steve
>
> -Original Message-
> From: 4D_Tech [mailto:4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com] On Behalf Of Timothy
> Penner via 4D_Tech
> Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 1:16 PM
> To: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> Cc: Timothy Penner 
> Subject: RE: delete or truncate
>
> > I like the TRUNCATE TABLE command, but I'm thinking this cannot be used
> within a transaction.
>
> " No transaction must be underway in the process executing TRUNCATE TABLE.
> If this if the case, the command does nothing and the OK system variable is
> set to 0"
>
> > 4D's documentation website is down, otherwise I would have confirmed
> this first.
>
> Doc Center is up:
> http://doc.4d.com/4Dv16/4D/16/TRUNCATE-TABLE.301-3037064.en.html
>
> -Tim
>
> **
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RE: Anyone using v16 in WAN

[Timothy Penner via 4D_Tech]

> Yes. You only need the new network layer to support 64-bit 4D on Mac.

The new network layer is required (legacy network not supported) if you are 
using:

* 4D Server 64 bit on Mac
* 4D 64 bit on Mac
* 4D 64 bit on Win

The new network layer is not required (legacy network supported) if you are 
using:

* 4D Server 64 bit on Win
* 4D Server 32 bit on Mac
* 4D Server 32 bit on Win
* 4D 32 bit on Mac
* 4D 32 bit on Win

-Tim



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Re: Anyone using v16 in WAN

[Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech]

Yes. You only need the new network layer to support 64-bit 4D on Mac. 

> On Apr 4, 2017, at 12:54 PM, Timothy Penner via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Tim,
> 
>>> I think it is important to investigate whether the instability is specific 
>>> to application code or not.
>>> 
>>> for instance, it is possible to create a bare bone copy of you database 
>>> with the export structure command. you can then open a copy of your 
>>> production data with that structure file.
>>> 
>>> if you have no issues using the database in user mode over the same 
>>> network, then perhaps some methods are choking the network in a way that 
>>> does not happen over the legacy layer.
> 
>> So is this a new feature of v16 and the new network layer? Are you saying 
>> that is is OK and acceptable for 4D v16 — using the new network layer — to 
>> drop a client connection simply because a method is running and choking the 
>> network? A developer can write some code that will kill the network 
>> connection?
>> Or are you saying that this is really an indication of a bug in v16 and the 
>> new network layer. That 4D should never disconnect 4D Client due to code 
>> running that “chokes” the network.

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RE: delete or truncate

[Stephen J. Orth via 4D_Tech]

Tim,

It appears to be back up again, but it was down for a bit, along with the 4D 
website.


Steve 

-Original Message-
From: 4D_Tech [mailto:4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com] On Behalf Of Timothy Penner 
via 4D_Tech
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 1:16 PM
To: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
Cc: Timothy Penner 
Subject: RE: delete or truncate

> I like the TRUNCATE TABLE command, but I'm thinking this cannot be used 
> within a transaction.

" No transaction must be underway in the process executing TRUNCATE TABLE. If 
this if the case, the command does nothing and the OK system variable is set to 
0"

> 4D's documentation website is down, otherwise I would have confirmed this 
> first.

Doc Center is up:
http://doc.4d.com/4Dv16/4D/16/TRUNCATE-TABLE.301-3037064.en.html

-Tim

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RE: delete or truncate

[Timothy Penner via 4D_Tech]

> I like the TRUNCATE TABLE command, but I'm thinking this cannot be used 
> within a transaction.

" No transaction must be underway in the process executing TRUNCATE TABLE. If 
this if the case, the command does nothing and the OK system variable is set to 
0"

> 4D's documentation website is down, otherwise I would have confirmed this 
> first.

Doc Center is up:
http://doc.4d.com/4Dv16/4D/16/TRUNCATE-TABLE.301-3037064.en.html

-Tim



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RE: delete or truncate

[Stephen J. Orth via 4D_Tech]

Doug,

I like the TRUNCATE TABLE command, but I'm thinking this cannot be used within 
a transaction.

4D's documentation website is down, otherwise I would have confirmed this first.


Steve

-Original Message-
From: 4D_Tech [mailto:4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com] On Behalf Of Douglas von 
Roeder via 4D_Tech
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 1:04 PM
To: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
Cc: Douglas von Roeder 
Subject: Re: delete or truncate

Chuck:

I'd go with truncate.

It's a command whose function is to clear all the tablespace allocated to
records in a given table along with the associated indexes.

Delete selection is used to delete one or more records, ensuring that
indexes and relational integrity constraints are enforced for each record
deleted.

I've used truncate a couple of times and it's *very* fast. In a V13 system,
Truncate table deleted 10 GB of tablespace//11MM records in 10 seconds
(MacBook Pro with SSD).

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Re: delete or truncate

[Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech]

Chuck:

I'd go with truncate.

It's a command whose function is to clear all the tablespace allocated to
records in a given table along with the associated indexes.

Delete selection is used to delete one or more records, ensuring that
indexes and relational integrity constraints are enforced for each record
deleted.

I've used truncate a couple of times and it's *very* fast. In a V13 system,
Truncate table deleted 10 GB of tablespace//11MM records in 10 seconds
(MacBook Pro with SSD).



--
Douglas von Roeder
949-336-2902

On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 10:43 AM, Charles Miller via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> I seem to remember a tech note or example that would fix index problems
> that you would have when deleting most of the record in a able or or
> truncating it. I can not seem to find it. I wanted to make sure that if we
> run a repair after doing this that all will be as it should. The two tables
> we are truncating grow quite large. One for example now has more than
> 30,000,000 records
>
> We are running v15.
>
> Can anyone point me in the right direction
>
> Thanks and regards
> Chuck
>
> --
> 
> -
>  Chuck Miller Voice: (617) 739-0306 Fax: (617) 232-1064
>  Informed Solutions, Inc.
>  Brookline, MA 02446 USA Registered 4D Developer
>Providers of 4D, Sybase & SQL Sever connectivity
>   http://www.informed-solutions.com
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Re: Anyone using v16 in WAN

[Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech]

On Apr 4, 2017, at 11:02 AM, Neil Dennis wrote:

> I found the new net work layer unusable as well. During heavy loads 4D will 
> quit responding. I use legacy network and things work great. This was all 
> done on a LAN not a WAN.
> 
> I let the 4D engineers know about this at the last 4D summit. I have been 
> unsuccessful in creating a small isolated database that demonstrates the 
> problem. In my case it only happens in heavy load conditions and can take a 
> few days to manifest itself.
> 
> By heavy load, we have over 100 users hitting the database (all on the same 
> network as the server) and there is a lot of network traffic. When I say quit 
> responding… there comes a time, sometimes after a few days, where no one can 
> log in, and those logged in appear to be frozen. Restarting the 4D server 
> fixes this for a few to several more days. When I run legacy network these 
> problems do not exist.

I was planning on upgrading a client from v14.4 to v16.0, but now I am having 
second thoughts. Their 4D Client connections are currently rock solid. And 
their 4D Server runs for months at a time without the need for a restart. This 
client has 70-80 users connected. 

I certainly don’t want to submit my clients to a v16 upgrade that results in 
regular, weekly support calls of “I can’t connect to 4D Server” and “4D Server 
is frozen and needs to be restarted”. 

Can I run 4D Server v16.0 64-bit Windows with legacy network layer and 4D 
Client v16.0 32-bit Windows without these network issues? Anybody doing that?

Tim


Tim Nevels
Innovative Solutions
785-749-3444
timnev...@mac.com


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RE: Anyone using v16 in WAN

[Timothy Penner via 4D_Tech]

Hi Tim,

> > I think it is important to investigate whether the instability is specific 
> > to application code or not.
> >
> > for instance, it is possible to create a bare bone copy of you database 
> > with the export structure command. you can then open a copy of your 
> > production data with that structure file.
> >
> > if you have no issues using the database in user mode over the same 
> > network, then perhaps some methods are choking the network in a way that 
> > does not happen over the legacy layer.

> So is this a new feature of v16 and the new network layer? Are you saying 
> that is is OK and acceptable for 4D v16 — using the new network layer — to 
> drop a client connection simply because a method is running and choking the 
> network? A developer can write some code that will kill the network 
> connection?
> Or are you saying that this is really an indication of a bug in v16 and the 
> new network layer. That 4D should never disconnect 4D Client due to code 
> running that “chokes” the network.


I think he was describing a way to "troubleshoot" or "investigate" the 
situation... Once it is narrowed down to a specific command or routine then a 
bug could be filed.

-Tim




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Re: Anyone using v16 in WAN

[Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech]

On Apr 4, 2017, at 11:02 AM,Keisuke Miyako wrote:

> I think it is important to investigate whether the instability is specific to 
> application code or not.
> 
> for instance, it is possible to create a bare bone copy of you database with 
> the export structure command. you can then open a copy of your production 
> data with that structure file.
> 
> if you have no issues using the database in user mode over the same network, 
> then perhaps some methods are choking the network in a way that does not 
> happen over the legacy layer.

So is this a new feature of v16 and the new network layer? Are you saying that 
is is OK and acceptable for 4D v16 — using the new network layer — to drop a 
client connection simply because a method is running and choking the network? A 
developer can write some code that will kill the network connection?

Or are you saying that this is really an indication of a bug in v16 and the new 
network layer. That 4D should never disconnect 4D Client due to code running 
that “chokes” the network.

Tim


Tim Nevels
Innovative Solutions
785-749-3444
timnev...@mac.com


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delete or truncate

[Charles Miller via 4D_Tech]

I seem to remember a tech note or example that would fix index problems
that you would have when deleting most of the record in a able or or
truncating it. I can not seem to find it. I wanted to make sure that if we
run a repair after doing this that all will be as it should. The two tables
we are truncating grow quite large. One for example now has more than
30,000,000 records

We are running v15.

Can anyone point me in the right direction

Thanks and regards
Chuck

-- 
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Re: 4D Compiler

[Nigel Greenlee via 4D_Tech]

Tim

Oh that this was V15!!!..its not a complaint about the compiler its doing a a 
damned fine job here its like Mr Trebus living 
room(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Trebus)

> On 4 Apr 2017, at 17:31, Charles Miller via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 12:23 PM, Nigel Greenlee via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
>> Chuck
>> 
>> Yep thats pretty much what i am figuring..but I was just curious if anyone
>> know what the 'trigger points’ that cause it to give up are-if we knew what
>> they were we could clear up those errors first(I have been at this one all
>> day today and most of yesterday)
>> 
> 
> If it was closer to the decade I was doing real computer science stuff I
> might have been better able to tell you, but alas that stuff has all passed
> me by
> 
> Regards
> 
> Chuck
> 
> 
> -- 
> -
> Chuck Miller Voice: (617) 739-0306 Fax: (617) 232-1064
> Informed Solutions, Inc.
> Brookline, MA 02446 USA Registered 4D Developer
>   Providers of 4D, Sybase & SQL Sever connectivity
>  http://www.informed-solutions.com
> -
> This message and any attached documents contain information which may be
> confidential, subject to privilege or exempt from disclosure under
> applicable law.  These materials are intended only for the use of the
> intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient of this
> transmission, you are hereby notified that any distribution, disclosure,
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> reliance upon this transmission is strictly prohibited.  Delivery of this
> message to any person other than the intended recipient shall not
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RE: 4D Compiler

[Timothy Penner via 4D_Tech]

Maybe related to this?
ACI0096385 [135142] Check Syntax Error Count Not Consistent.
^ Still in progress.
^ filed for v15.x / 16.x / 16R2
* I thought this was database specific though.

The bug description explains that it's just the number that seems wrong, but 
the actual list seems correct.
A workaround to get an accurate count is to enable the 'Generate Error File" 
setting in Compilation Options,
Then open the structurename_errors.xml file and "find/count" the number of 
"error lines" found like in this screenshot:
http://i.imgur.com/Y4tmX92.png

My suggestion is to just keep fixing the errors, because even if the 
number/total/count is wrong the error still needs to be fixed.

You can also open a case on taow.4d.com - perhaps having more samples that 
demonstrate the issue would be good - or maybe it is a different issue.

-Tim




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RE: Anyone using v16 in WAN

[Stephen J. Orth via 4D_Tech]

John,

We tried running this in 32 bit mode (Windows) and it was unusable.  We 
contacted 4D and they told us not to use it for 32 bit, but only 64 bit.  Have 
not tried that yet as we have been unable to get the 64 bit version working 
with our OEM system (web area issues using the integrated browser).


Steve


-Original Message-
From: 4D_Tech [mailto:4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com] On Behalf Of John DeSoi via 
4D_Tech
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 11:37 AM
To: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
Cc: John DeSoi 
Subject: Re: Anyone using v16 in WAN

Are folks having trouble with the new network layer using it in 32 bit mode or 
64 bit mode? Just wondering if 64 bit mode is also problematic.

John DeSoi, Ph.D.


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Re: 4D Compiler

[Nigel Greenlee via 4D_Tech]

Chuck

If it was closer to the days when i wrote load of errors i might have worked 
out(but then i was so daft i could not have worked it out)..now that i am 
clever enough to work it out i don’t need to work it out because i don't write 
100s of errors

…end of a long day clearing 100*n errors get to (100*n)/2 and I was back to 
(100*n)+100 then back to (100*n)-200 and then up again to (100*n)+200 …getting 
the real meat of missing end ifs etc now!  
LOL



> On 4 Apr 2017, at 17:31, Charles Miller via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 12:23 PM, Nigel Greenlee via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
>> Chuck
>> 
>> Yep thats pretty much what i am figuring..but I was just curious if anyone
>> know what the 'trigger points’ that cause it to give up are-if we knew what
>> they were we could clear up those errors first(I have been at this one all
>> day today and most of yesterday)
>> 
> 
> If it was closer to the decade I was doing real computer science stuff I
> might have been better able to tell you, but alas that stuff has all passed
> me by
> 
> Regards
> 
> Chuck
> 
> 
> -- 
> -
> Chuck Miller Voice: (617) 739-0306 Fax: (617) 232-1064
> Informed Solutions, Inc.
> Brookline, MA 02446 USA Registered 4D Developer
>   Providers of 4D, Sybase & SQL Sever connectivity
>  http://www.informed-solutions.com
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> confidential, subject to privilege or exempt from disclosure under
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Re: Anyone using v16 in WAN

[Charles Miller via 4D_Tech]

On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 12:36 PM, John DeSoi via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> Are folks having trouble with the new network layer using it in 32 bit
> mode or 64 bit mode? Just wondering if 64 bit mode is also problematic.


It is my understanding that 32 mode only runs on old network layer at least
that is so on Macs

Regards

Chuck


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Re: Anyone using v16 in WAN

[John DeSoi via 4D_Tech]

Are folks having trouble with the new network layer using it in 32 bit mode or 
64 bit mode? Just wondering if 64 bit mode is also problematic.

John DeSoi, Ph.D.


> On Apr 4, 2017, at 10:56 AM, lists via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> Of the sites we are running at, all but the smallest ones exhibit the same 
> slowness, non-responsiveness after several days (number of days depended on 
> usage load), logged off clients not clearing from the server and occupying 
> licenses.  We can actually see the system response time increase as more 
> clients are logging in.
> 
> All of the above disappears and work correctly with the legacy network layer. 
> 
> I strongly second the assertion that the new network layer is more of a 
> "proof of concept" work in progress alpha stage.

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Re: 4D Compiler

[Charles Miller via 4D_Tech]

On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 12:23 PM, Nigel Greenlee via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> Chuck
>
> Yep thats pretty much what i am figuring..but I was just curious if anyone
> know what the 'trigger points’ that cause it to give up are-if we knew what
> they were we could clear up those errors first(I have been at this one all
> day today and most of yesterday)
>

If it was closer to the decade I was doing real computer science stuff I
might have been better able to tell you, but alas that stuff has all passed
me by

Regards

Chuck


-- 
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 Chuck Miller Voice: (617) 739-0306 Fax: (617) 232-1064
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Re: 4D Compiler

[Nigel Greenlee via 4D_Tech]

Chuck

Yep thats pretty much what i am figuring..but I was just curious if anyone know 
what the 'trigger points’ that cause it to give up are-if we knew what they 
were we could clear up those errors first(I have been at this one all day today 
and most of yesterday)

Nigel Greenlee

> On 4 Apr 2017, at 17:19, Charles Miller via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:y a
> 
> On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Nigel Greenlee via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
>> Just out of curiosity does anyone know why the compiler does this(its a
>> long time since i have had more than 2 errors in the compiler because i
>> compile everytime i change a piece of code to check for syntax before i
>> even test it)
> 
> 
> I would think that at times when compiler hits an error it can not go
> further down that path of logic, so it can not report errors later in that
> code
> 
> Regards
> Chuck
> 
> 
> -- 
> -
> Chuck Miller Voice: (617) 739-0306 Fax: (617) 232-1064
> Informed Solutions, Inc.
> Brookline, MA 02446 USA Registered 4D Developer
>   Providers of 4D, Sybase & SQL Sever connectivity
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Re: 4D Compiler

[Charles Miller via 4D_Tech]

On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Nigel Greenlee via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> Just out of curiosity does anyone know why the compiler does this(its a
> long time since i have had more than 2 errors in the compiler because i
> compile everytime i change a piece of code to check for syntax before i
> even test it)


I would think that at times when compiler hits an error it can not go
further down that path of logic, so it can not report errors later in that
code

Regards
Chuck


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4D Compiler

[Nigel Greenlee via 4D_Tech]

Hi

I have always been curious-but really never had to see this in this way. 

I am currently updating a system which has never been compiled-not with a view 
to compiling but to clear up syntax errors. So i started with some number of 
errors(somewhat north of 100)…i cleared some stuff..and then suddenly i had 
some more errors.

In the past I always thought this was because errors of one type had been 
cleared(ie. syntax) and now it could see bad assignments. But in this case it 
was not so..and the errors now reported are probably more significant

Just out of curiosity does anyone know why the compiler does this(its a long 
time since i have had more than 2 errors in the compiler because i compile 
everytime i change a piece of code to check for syntax before i even test it)


Nigel Greenlee



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RE: Anyone using v16 in WAN

[lists via 4D_Tech]

Of the sites we are running at, all but the smallest ones exhibit the same 
slowness, non-responsiveness after several days (number of days depended on 
usage load), logged off clients not clearing from the server and occupying 
licenses.  We can actually see the system response time increase as more 
clients are logging in.

 All of the above disappears and work correctly with the legacy network layer. 

I strongly second the assertion that the new network layer is more of a "proof 
of concept" work in progress alpha stage.

Lahav

-Original Message-
From: 4D_Tech [mailto:4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com] On Behalf Of Herr Alexander 
Heintz via 4D_Tech
Sent: April 4, 2017 7:50 AM
To: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
Cc: Herr Alexander Heintz 
Subject: Re: Anyone using v16 in WAN

Am 04.04.2017 um 14:54 schrieb npdennis via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>:
> 
>> if you have no issues using the database in user mode over the same network, 
>> then perhaps some methods are choking the network in a way that does not 
>> happen over the legacy layer.
> 
> I found the new net work layer unusable as well. During heavy loads 4D will 
> quit responding. I use legacy network and things work great. This was all 
> done on a LAN not a WAN.

Same here, found the new network layer to be extremely unreliable, switched it 
off everywhere.
Will not try again until 4D tells me they fixed it big time!
The specs and the theory is sure interesting and it would be great, believe me, 
very great, but currently it is at most in a  „proof of concept“ Alpha stage...

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RE: Anyone using v16 in WAN

[lists via 4D_Tech]

Of the sites we are running at, all but the smallest ones exhibit the same 
slowness, non-responsiveness after several days (number of days depended on 
usage load), logged off clients not clearing from the server and occupying 
licenses.  We can actually see the system response time increase as more 
clients are logging in.

 All of the above disappears and work correctly with the legacy network layer. 

I strongly second the assertion that the new network layer is more of a "proof 
of concept" work in progress alpha stage.

Lahav

-Original Message-
From: 4D_Tech [mailto:4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com] On Behalf Of Herr Alexander 
Heintz via 4D_Tech
Sent: April 4, 2017 7:50 AM
To: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
Cc: Herr Alexander Heintz 
Subject: Re: Anyone using v16 in WAN

Am 04.04.2017 um 14:54 schrieb npdennis via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>:
> 
>> if you have no issues using the database in user mode over the same network, 
>> then perhaps some methods are choking the network in a way that does not 
>> happen over the legacy layer.
> 
> I found the new net work layer unusable as well. During heavy loads 4D will 
> quit responding. I use legacy network and things work great. This was all 
> done on a LAN not a WAN.

Same here, found the new network layer to be extremely unreliable, switched it 
off everywhere.
Will not try again until 4D tells me they fixed it big time!
The specs and the theory is sure interesting and it would be great, believe me, 
very great, but currently it is at most in a  „proof of concept“ Alpha stage...

**
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Re: Anyone using v16 in WAN

[Herr Alexander Heintz via 4D_Tech]

Am 04.04.2017 um 14:54 schrieb npdennis via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>:
> 
>> if you have no issues using the database in user mode over the same network, 
>> then perhaps some methods are choking the network in a way that does not 
>> happen over the legacy layer.
> 
> I found the new net work layer unusable as well. During heavy loads 4D will 
> quit responding. I use legacy network and things work great. This was all 
> done on a LAN not a WAN.

Same here, found the new network layer to be extremely unreliable, switched it 
off everywhere.
Will not try again until 4D tells me they fixed it big time!
The specs and the theory is sure interesting and it would be great, believe me, 
very great, but currently it is at most in a  „proof of concept“ Alpha stage...

**
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Re: Anyone using v16 in WAN

[npdennis via 4D_Tech]

> if you have no issues using the database in user mode over the same network, 
> then perhaps some methods are choking the network in a way that does not 
> happen over the legacy layer.

I found the new net work layer unusable as well. During heavy loads 4D will 
quit responding. I use legacy network and things work great. This was all done 
on a LAN not a WAN.

I let the 4D engineers know about this at the last 4D summit. I have been 
unsuccessful in creating a small isolated database that demonstrates the 
problem. In my case it only happens in heavy load conditions and can take a few 
days to manifest itself.

By heavy load, we have over 100 users hitting the database (all on the same 
network as the server) and there is a lot of network traffic. When I say quit 
responding… there comes a time, sometimes after a few days, where no one can 
log in, and those logged in appear to be frozen. Restarting the 4D server fixes 
this for a few to several more days. When I run legacy network these problems 
do not exist.

Neil

--
Neil Dennis
4D Developer since 1990


GreaText - Designing Software for the Way You Work
716 East 1850 N
North Ogden, UT 84414

mailto:npden...@greatext.com
http://www.greatext.com/



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Re: Anyone using v16 in WAN

[Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech]

Doug,
I've been running a db over WAN since v2004. I've found v15 to be more
stable than any of the others but I'm also running it on the legacy
setting. I've changed to the new one a couple of times and it always gets
complaints from users about responsiveness or sluggishness. I don't have
any v16 databases running with appreciable load yet but the one I do have
in production is totally acceptable with the new network layer.

Miyako is right, as I'm sure you know, about the attention you have to pay
to exactly where operations take place like searches, loops and such all
running on the server and not clients. But I'm guessing that's not the sort
of problems you're seeing.

The latency issue is still a bugger. Since it's highly dependent on the
routing it's not something you can control completely and it can bite you.
We had an issue a few years ago when a couple of our locations were on
Comcast and Comcast and L3 were having a fight resulting in Comcast
avoiding L3 connections. This resulted in the route from those offices,
about 8 miles from our colo, requiring hopping all the way from here to
Europe, turning around in Sweden ( I think) and then coming back to
California if you were connecting from a Comcast node. This took a
noticeable amount of time and 4D was not amused. Lead me to install a
couple of lines from a local carrier just for the data while they had their
pissing match. Actually we just ditched Comcast 'cause they are a miserable
company to deal with.

On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 12:20 AM, Douglas Cryer via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> I would like to hear from anyone using v16 in a WAN environment.
>
> Frankly every time I have tried out v16 or for that matter any v15 R
> release I have been shocked at how poor the network connection stability
> has been.
>
> It seems to stem from the new networking layer and certainly it seems to
> be more stable when the legacy  networking checkbox is checked but frankly
> it scared me off being an early adopter.
>
> I now have a little time to look at this again but wanted to gather some
> information from the community before I proceed with more testing.
>
> Are there any recommended settings and configurations I should look at?
> Some background:
>
> All our servers are running on Windows Servers mixture of 2008 and 2012.
> - 90% are dedicated hosted servers with a few in-house servers
> - Multiple databases run on our hosted servers on separate ports
> - WAN connection for each server is dedicated 100Mb
> - Client connections vary from domestic grade ADSL, Virgin Cable and
> Leased lines
> - Clients are a mixture of platforms 90% Windows 7, 8 & 10 and 10% OSX
>
> We have occasionally had issues with certain clients broadband connections
> but all in all v15 stability has been good.
>
> Issues I was seeing with v16 were:
> - Client connection timeout errors
> - Clients which had logged off, showing as connected to the server
>
> Am I missing some key documentation in this area or maybe some new
> networking layer tech note?
>
> Regards,  Dougie
> 
>
> telekinetix Limited- J. Douglas Cryer
> Phone : 01234 761759  Mobile : 07973 675 218
> 2nd Floor Broadway House, 4-6 The Broadway, Bedford MK40 2TE
> Email : jdcr...@telekinetix.com   Web :
> http://www.telekinetix.com 
> 
>
>
> **
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-- 
Kirk Brooks
San Francisco, CA
===

*The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing.*

*- Edmund Burke*
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Re: Anyone using v16 in WAN

[Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech]

Hello,

I think it is important to investigate whether the instability is specific to 
application code or not.

for instance, it is possible to create a bare bone copy of you database with 
the export structure command. you can then open a copy of your production data 
with that structure file.

if you have no issues using the database in user mode over the same network, 
then perhaps some methods are choking the network in a way that does not happen 
over the legacy layer.



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Anyone using v16 in WAN

[Douglas Cryer via 4D_Tech]

I would like to hear from anyone using v16 in a WAN environment.

Frankly every time I have tried out v16 or for that matter any v15 R release I 
have been shocked at how poor the network connection stability has been.

It seems to stem from the new networking layer and certainly it seems to be 
more stable when the legacy  networking checkbox is checked but frankly it 
scared me off being an early adopter.

I now have a little time to look at this again but wanted to gather some 
information from the community before I proceed with more testing.

Are there any recommended settings and configurations I should look at?  Some 
background:

All our servers are running on Windows Servers mixture of 2008 and 2012.
- 90% are dedicated hosted servers with a few in-house servers
- Multiple databases run on our hosted servers on separate ports
- WAN connection for each server is dedicated 100Mb
- Client connections vary from domestic grade ADSL, Virgin Cable and Leased 
lines
- Clients are a mixture of platforms 90% Windows 7, 8 & 10 and 10% OSX

We have occasionally had issues with certain clients broadband connections but 
all in all v15 stability has been good.

Issues I was seeing with v16 were:
- Client connection timeout errors
- Clients which had logged off, showing as connected to the server

Am I missing some key documentation in this area or maybe some new networking 
layer tech note?

Regards,  Dougie


telekinetix Limited- J. Douglas Cryer
Phone : 01234 761759  Mobile : 07973 675 218
2nd Floor Broadway House, 4-6 The Broadway, Bedford MK40 2TE
Email : jdcr...@telekinetix.com   Web : 
http://www.telekinetix.com 

 

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