Re: Upgrading 2004 to v15

[Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech]

Mark:

I don't have anything running V16 but the docs for OT state "4D V11.5+" and
it is compatible with 32 bit and 64 bit versions.

The web site (https://www.aparajitaworld.com/downloads) reads "What you
will need: 4D V11 or later" and it confirms the 32 and 64 bit
functionality.

--
Douglas von Roeder
949-336-2902

On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 2:53 PM, Mark Zinke via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I was wondering if anyone knows if ObjectTools supports 4D V16?
>
>
>
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Re: Upgrading 2004 to v15

[Jim Hays via 4D_Tech]

Yes ObjectTools works with v16.  We are on 16R6.  It is 64bit as well.

Jim

On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 5:53 PM, Mark Zinke via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I was wondering if anyone knows if ObjectTools supports 4D V16?
>
>
>
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Re: Upgrading 2004 to v15

[Mark Zinke via 4D_Tech]

Hi All,

I was wondering if anyone knows if ObjectTools supports 4D V16?



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Re: Upgrading 2004 to v15

[Doug Hall]

Thanks so much for this. I hadn't heard about the deprecated commands yet,
so that tip is sure to be helpful. I'll look up Thomas Maul's Summit
session, too. Thanks.

Doug

On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 9:44 AM, Myriad List  wrote:

> > From: Doug Hall 
> > To: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> > Subject: Upgrading 2004 to v15
>
> RE:  Should I shoot for an interim version, say v13, or is
> it possible (practical) to go all the way from 2004 to v15?
>
> Doug;
>
> Definitely do not bother with incremental version upgrading unless you are
> in version 2003 or before and then all you need do is convert to 2004 and
> then straight to v15.  v15 is much better at the conversion and properly
> auto populates the new primary keys.  While I don’t recall which versions,
> some earlier versions (v13 - v14?) had an issue where updating the final
> datafile did not populate and save the new keys so you had to write code to
> fill them in.  v15 handles this very fast.
>
> v2004 has a unique checkbox when running 4D Tools Repair Structure
> “Rebuild all forms”.  You must do this with 2004 Tools or many of your
> forms will function like static pictures of what once were tab-able
> objects.  I’m not going to get into why other than make sure you do this or
> you will be starting over in 2004 or rewriting lots of forms later.
>
> I have done quite a few from 2004 to v15 and the process can be fairly
> simple to complex depending on:
>
> - plugins used
> - web application situation (some such as contextual have to be completely
> re-written)
> - how many deprecated commands you have used
> - how many deprecated objects such as “linked arrays” you have on forms
> - how far back in the 4D family your application originated (just more
> issues)
> apps written in 2004 and later will convert quicker and easier
> than apps that originated in v1.04
>
> Consider this before you get in too deep:
>
> - Read the all 4D upgrade documents carefully as much is covered there
>
> - Reach out to Bob Miller with Parker Hannifin as he did a session at the
> 4D 2016 Summit that went into great detail on "Upgrade Phobia".  No sense
> in covering what has all been so adequately done.  Most applications will
> be affected by a small fraction of all the upgrading issues so do not be
> discouraged by all the possibilities.  Its not that difficult unless you
> start converting before you digest the relevant material and have to re-do
> your work (which I did several times by the way)
>
> - Try to Locate Thomas Maul’s summit session documents on conversions
> (2014 ? 2015? I don’t recall) .  He too had some helpful material.
>
> Maybe your 4D sales rep will help you obtain these docs as I’m
> sure they would be happy if you upgraded.  I’m not sure how publicly
> available they are.  They cover the nuances and hindsight that the 4D docs
> don’t have.
>
> Some hindsight information I picked up:
>
> The consensus of deprecated commands that are replaced with __o__ seems to
> be leave them alone for now rather than globally replacing them (unless you
> have lots of extra time for the conversion).  There is code out there that
> will go through your methods and update them all but the thought was you
> will lose track of where all these instances were.  The application will
> run as is because the commands still function.  This allows you to later go
> through the code and replace them making sure there are no unintended
> consequences.  An example of that would be if you relied on set string
> lengths of variables to control input.  C_string(12;…) will now function as
> C_TEXT(), so your converted app may have some string bugs but it will run.
>
> Note that much has already been said about Primary Keys so I’m only going
> to touch on summary of what I took away.
>
> - UUID or LI is a personal preference - both work fine
> - UUID would be better for syncing with outside data sources
> - LI is a bit faster/smaller and more “human readable” if you have to pick
> through any data some day
> - Its always safe to simply let 4D create a new ID field (your preference
> UUID or LI)
> - Some developers with legacy applications decided to use these primary
> keys only for 4Ds journaling and leave their legacy key systems in place.
> Let 4D create keys for all tables just to allow the new 4D journaling.  Its
> fast and datafile space is cheap these days.
> - If you have an obvious field that is unique and can function as a LI key
> it is certainly safe to use it.
>
> John Bernhoft
> Myriad Systems LLC
>
>
> **
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RE: Upgrading 2004 to v15

[Myriad List]

> From: Doug Hall 
> To: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> Subject: Upgrading 2004 to v15

RE:  Should I shoot for an interim version, say v13, or is
it possible (practical) to go all the way from 2004 to v15?

Doug;

Definitely do not bother with incremental version upgrading unless you are in 
version 2003 or before and then all you need do is convert to 2004 and then 
straight to v15.  v15 is much better at the conversion and properly auto 
populates the new primary keys.  While I don’t recall which versions, some 
earlier versions (v13 - v14?) had an issue where updating the final datafile 
did not populate and save the new keys so you had to write code to fill them 
in.  v15 handles this very fast.  

v2004 has a unique checkbox when running 4D Tools Repair Structure “Rebuild all 
forms”.  You must do this with 2004 Tools or many of your forms will function 
like static pictures of what once were tab-able objects.  I’m not going to get 
into why other than make sure you do this or you will be starting over in 2004 
or rewriting lots of forms later.

I have done quite a few from 2004 to v15 and the process can be fairly simple 
to complex depending on:

- plugins used
- web application situation (some such as contextual have to be completely 
re-written)
- how many deprecated commands you have used
- how many deprecated objects such as “linked arrays” you have on forms
- how far back in the 4D family your application originated (just more issues)
apps written in 2004 and later will convert quicker and easier than 
apps that originated in v1.04

Consider this before you get in too deep:

- Read the all 4D upgrade documents carefully as much is covered there

- Reach out to Bob Miller with Parker Hannifin as he did a session at the 4D 
2016 Summit that went into great detail on "Upgrade Phobia".  No sense in 
covering what has all been so adequately done.  Most applications will be 
affected by a small fraction of all the upgrading issues so do not be 
discouraged by all the possibilities.  Its not that difficult unless you start 
converting before you digest the relevant material and have to re-do your work 
(which I did several times by the way)

- Try to Locate Thomas Maul’s summit session documents on conversions (2014 ? 
2015? I don’t recall) .  He too had some helpful material.

Maybe your 4D sales rep will help you obtain these docs as I’m sure 
they would be happy if you upgraded.  I’m not sure how publicly available they 
are.  They cover the nuances and hindsight that the 4D docs don’t have.

Some hindsight information I picked up:

The consensus of deprecated commands that are replaced with __o__ seems to be 
leave them alone for now rather than globally replacing them (unless you have 
lots of extra time for the conversion).  There is code out there that will go 
through your methods and update them all but the thought was you will lose 
track of where all these instances were.  The application will run as is 
because the commands still function.  This allows you to later go through the 
code and replace them making sure there are no unintended consequences.  An 
example of that would be if you relied on set string lengths of variables to 
control input.  C_string(12;…) will now function as C_TEXT(), so your converted 
app may have some string bugs but it will run.

Note that much has already been said about Primary Keys so I’m only going to 
touch on summary of what I took away.

- UUID or LI is a personal preference - both work fine
- UUID would be better for syncing with outside data sources
- LI is a bit faster/smaller and more “human readable” if you have to pick 
through any data some day
- Its always safe to simply let 4D create a new ID field (your preference UUID 
or LI)
- Some developers with legacy applications decided to use these primary keys 
only for 4Ds journaling and leave their legacy key systems in place.  Let 4D 
create keys for all tables just to allow the new 4D journaling.  Its fast and 
datafile space is cheap these days.
- If you have an obvious field that is unique and can function as a LI key it 
is certainly safe to use it.

John Bernhoft
Myriad Systems LLC


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Re: Upgrading 2004 to v15

[Doug Hall]

I sure appreciate all the helpful posts. Sorry I don't have the time to
reply individually, but rest assured I'm paying attention to all the
comments. Something tells me I need something like Evernote to help
organize all the notes I'm going to be taking. :-)

Doug

On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 3:56 PM, Wayne Stewart 
wrote:

> And guard your catalog.xml file with your life.
>
> :)
>
> On Thursday, 1 September 2016, Tim Nevels  wrote:
>
> > On Aug 31, 2016, at 1:36 PM, Peter Mew wrote:
> >
> > > I just tried to open the 2004 database with the v13 development
> > environment and it converted both structure and database to v13 format.
> > Then I had to work my way through it to find what still worked, and fix
> > what didn't.
> >
> > I would agree with Peter’s advice. You’ve already said you are going to
> > upgrade to v15. So just grab a copy of the current structure and a copy
> of
> > the current data file and open it in v15 and let it convert it.
> >
> > You’ll get a bunch of errors about the plugins and messages about not
> > having primary keys set for all the tables. And of course it will not
> > compile. Then you get to work like Peter says.
> >
> > Upgrade the plugins. Then run a compile. Go to each error, like all the
> > plugin related ones, and fix them by writing new code or replacing a
> plugin
> > with a method you create. It’s going to take you a few days and maybe 50
> > attempts to compile before it works. But you’ll get there.
> >
> > You may have to write some code to update your data file because v15
> > requires a primary key be set for every table you want to journal. So you
> > may have to do several test data file upgrades before it works smoothly.
> > You may also have to make one more 2004 version that has all the primary
> > key fields created and values assigned to them. Then when you open that
> > data file with v15 it will convert it and assign the primary keys without
> > issues.
> >
> > We all had to go through the primary key issues when moving from v13 to
> > v14 or v15.
> >
> > Once all that is done, you’ll be ready to install the v15 version and let
> > it upgrade your production data file.  The final step will be dealing
> with
> > those odd bugs and issues that users report about certain things that you
> > didn’t run across while doing the upgrade work. Can’t get around that
> part
> > either. It’s going to happen, but they usually very quick and easy to
> fix.
> > Probably on need one or two v15 version bug fix structure installs and
> you
> > will be back to where you are now running your 2004 version.
> >
> > And as they say… good luck. :)
> >
> > Tim
> >
> > 
> > Tim Nevels
> > Innovative Solutions
> > 785-749-3444
> > timnev...@mac.com 
> > 
> >
> > **
> > 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
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>
>
>
> --
>
> Regards,
>
> Wayne
>
>
> [image: --]
> Wayne Stewart
> [image: http://]about.me/waynestewart
> 
> **
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Re: Upgrading 2004 to v15

[Wayne Stewart]

And guard your catalog.xml file with your life.

:)

On Thursday, 1 September 2016, Tim Nevels  wrote:

> On Aug 31, 2016, at 1:36 PM, Peter Mew wrote:
>
> > I just tried to open the 2004 database with the v13 development
> environment and it converted both structure and database to v13 format.
> Then I had to work my way through it to find what still worked, and fix
> what didn't.
>
> I would agree with Peter’s advice. You’ve already said you are going to
> upgrade to v15. So just grab a copy of the current structure and a copy of
> the current data file and open it in v15 and let it convert it.
>
> You’ll get a bunch of errors about the plugins and messages about not
> having primary keys set for all the tables. And of course it will not
> compile. Then you get to work like Peter says.
>
> Upgrade the plugins. Then run a compile. Go to each error, like all the
> plugin related ones, and fix them by writing new code or replacing a plugin
> with a method you create. It’s going to take you a few days and maybe 50
> attempts to compile before it works. But you’ll get there.
>
> You may have to write some code to update your data file because v15
> requires a primary key be set for every table you want to journal. So you
> may have to do several test data file upgrades before it works smoothly.
> You may also have to make one more 2004 version that has all the primary
> key fields created and values assigned to them. Then when you open that
> data file with v15 it will convert it and assign the primary keys without
> issues.
>
> We all had to go through the primary key issues when moving from v13 to
> v14 or v15.
>
> Once all that is done, you’ll be ready to install the v15 version and let
> it upgrade your production data file.  The final step will be dealing with
> those odd bugs and issues that users report about certain things that you
> didn’t run across while doing the upgrade work. Can’t get around that part
> either. It’s going to happen, but they usually very quick and easy to fix.
> Probably on need one or two v15 version bug fix structure installs and you
> will be back to where you are now running your 2004 version.
>
> And as they say… good luck. :)
>
> Tim
>
> 
> Tim Nevels
> Innovative Solutions
> 785-749-3444
> timnev...@mac.com 
> 
>
> **
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-- 

Regards,

Wayne


[image: --]
Wayne Stewart
[image: http://]about.me/waynestewart

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Re: Upgrading 2004 to v15

[Tim Nevels]

On Aug 31, 2016, at 1:36 PM, Peter Mew wrote:

> I just tried to open the 2004 database with the v13 development environment 
> and it converted both structure and database to v13 format. Then I had to 
> work my way through it to find what still worked, and fix what didn't.

I would agree with Peter’s advice. You’ve already said you are going to upgrade 
to v15. So just grab a copy of the current structure and a copy of the current 
data file and open it in v15 and let it convert it. 

You’ll get a bunch of errors about the plugins and messages about not having 
primary keys set for all the tables. And of course it will not compile. Then 
you get to work like Peter says. 

Upgrade the plugins. Then run a compile. Go to each error, like all the plugin 
related ones, and fix them by writing new code or replacing a plugin with a 
method you create. It’s going to take you a few days and maybe 50 attempts to 
compile before it works. But you’ll get there. 

You may have to write some code to update your data file because v15 requires a 
primary key be set for every table you want to journal. So you may have to do 
several test data file upgrades before it works smoothly. You may also have to 
make one more 2004 version that has all the primary key fields created and 
values assigned to them. Then when you open that data file with v15 it will 
convert it and assign the primary keys without issues. 

We all had to go through the primary key issues when moving from v13 to v14 or 
v15. 

Once all that is done, you’ll be ready to install the v15 version and let it 
upgrade your production data file.  The final step will be dealing with those 
odd bugs and issues that users report about certain things that you didn’t run 
across while doing the upgrade work. Can’t get around that part either. It’s 
going to happen, but they usually very quick and easy to fix. Probably on need 
one or two v15 version bug fix structure installs and you will be back to where 
you are now running your 2004 version.

And as they say… good luck. :)

Tim


Tim Nevels
Innovative Solutions
785-749-3444
timnev...@mac.com


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RE: Upgrading 2004 to v15

[Timothy Penner]

Hi Doug,

> I imagine I *still* need to read the upgrade manuals for v11 through v14 too, 
> though, right? 
> There may be issues that still apply to me that are not repeated in more 
> recent upgrade manuals. 

Yes, you should review the upgrade manuals and deprecated features manual for 
each version you are skipping because the changes will still apply to you and 
the documentation would be in the version that the change occurred in.

-Tim PENNER
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Re: Upgrading 2004 to v15

[Chip Scheide]

probably a good idea  :)
RTFM   8D

however, there is one major issue:
Primary Keys.

Beginning in v14(?) [i'm still on 13]
if you want backups, you will need to have primary key on every table.

if you look at the archives you can find - lots of long discussions on 
this topic.
read one or more of them too

On Wed, 31 Aug 2016 09:52:21 -0500, Doug Hall wrote:
> WOW! Okay, that's great. I imagine I *still* need to read the upgrade
> manuals for v11 through v14 too, though, right? There may be issues that
> still apply to me that are not repeated in more recent upgrade manuals.
> 
> On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 9:48 AM, Wayne Stewart 
> wrote:
> 
>> Doug,
>> 
>> It should just convert. I recently went from 6.7 to v15 in one step. No
>> problem at all
>> 
>> Wayne
>> 
>> 
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Re: Upgrading 2004 to v15

[Peter Mew]

Hi Doug
I just tried to open the 2004 database with the v13 development environment and 
it converted both structure and database to v13 format. Then I had to work my 
way through it to find what still worked, and fix what didn't.
-pm

Sent from my iPad

> On 31 Aug 2016, at 15:45, Doug Hall  wrote:
> 
> When you guys say you've moved from 4D 2004 to v13 (or later) in one go,
> you don't mean that the data file converts seamlessly jumping straight to
> those later versions, do you? I'm working under the assumption that the
> data file must be opened and manipulated with contiguous versions, but that
> the CODE can jump (with a lot of rework) from 2004 to v15. Is this right?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
>> On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 4:34 AM, Peter Mew  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Doug
>> I upgraded a 2004 database to v13 in one go.
>> I had to rewrite some code for plugins no longer supported, many of the
>> routines for which a plug was used, are now available in native 4D.
>> I upgraded ALP to the latest version. There were no major problems with
>> the 4D code.
>> Good luck
>> -pm
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On 30 Aug 2016, at 22:30, Doug Hall  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Oops. I accidentally sent the above before I was finished.
>>> 
>>> Anyway, I'd like to pick some brains of those who've transitioned from a
>>> similar environment. Did you just rewrite the Bash routines? That's got
>> to
>>> be a pain. Is there nothing out there that does a lot of the same stuff?
>> I
>>> primarily used the DTS (DateTimeStamp) and DSS modules. UI probably used
>>> NULL, too, but not much. I'm a little worried about all the time it will
>>> take to recreate this functionality.
>>> 
>>> Most of the other stuff, I think I'm going to be okay upgrading. Active4D
>>> and ObjectTools are still supported by Aparajita Fishman, and PDF Plugin
>>> and PostgreSQL Plugin are in good hands with Rob Laveaux. AreaList Pro I
>>> see has changed hands and the licensing structure has changed. Are there
>>> any other surprises there, or should the upgrade be pretty
>> straightforward?
>>> 
>>> Do I make the leap all the way from 2004 to v15, or should I try to shoot
>>> for interim versions? Do I need to get each version to work, or will the
>>> data upgrade from version to version be fine from an uncompiled (and
>>> non-functioning) version. I know I'll have to remove the components, like
>>> Bash. What other lovely surprises await me?
>>> 
>>> Many thanks ahead of time!
>>> Doug Hall
>>> 
 On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 4:17 PM, Doug Hall 
>> wrote:
 
 For various reasons, we have put off upgrading 4D. We originally
>> intended
 to just move off of 4D all at once, but that turned out to be
>> impossible.
 I've added onto our existing structure in spurts, but for the most part,
 I've been out of active 4D development for almost a decade, now.So, now
>> I
 begin the journey of a million miles, with a single step. The first is
 advise from you guys. Should I shoot for an interim version, say v13,
>> or is
 it possible (practical) to go all the way from 2004 to v15?
 
 I know that the Bash component we're using has not been supported for
 years. Has anyone reverse engineered the methods in this component? If
>> so,
 please email me privately.
 
 
 Here's what we're currently using in 4D 2004:
 
 Foundation (v3.7.2?)
 
 Components:
 Bash Component: I've heard there is no way to upgrade. Please advise.
 Rollover (Used by ToolBar) No longer available.
 
 Plugins:
 AreaList Pro 7.9
 Active4D
 MD5 Plugin
 PDF Plugin
 PostgreSQL Plugin
>>> **
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Re: Upgrading 2004 to v15

[Doug Hall]

WOW! Okay, that's great. I imagine I *still* need to read the upgrade
manuals for v11 through v14 too, though, right? There may be issues that
still apply to me that are not repeated in more recent upgrade manuals.

On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 9:48 AM, Wayne Stewart 
wrote:

> Doug,
>
> It should just convert. I recently went from 6.7 to v15 in one step. No
> problem at all
>
> Wayne
>
>
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Re: Upgrading 2004 to v15

[Wayne Stewart]

Doug,

It should just convert. I recently went from 6.7 to v15 in one step. No
problem at all

Wayne

On Thursday, 1 September 2016, Doug Hall  wrote:

> When you guys say you've moved from 4D 2004 to v13 (or later) in one go,
> you don't mean that the data file converts seamlessly jumping straight to
> those later versions, do you? I'm working under the assumption that the
> data file must be opened and manipulated with contiguous versions, but that
> the CODE can jump (with a lot of rework) from 2004 to v15. Is this right?
>
> Thanks!
>
> On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 4:34 AM, Peter Mew  > wrote:
>
> > Hi Doug
> > I upgraded a 2004 database to v13 in one go.
> > I had to rewrite some code for plugins no longer supported, many of the
> > routines for which a plug was used, are now available in native 4D.
> > I upgraded ALP to the latest version. There were no major problems with
> > the 4D code.
> > Good luck
> > -pm
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> > > On 30 Aug 2016, at 22:30, Doug Hall  > wrote:
> > >
> > > Oops. I accidentally sent the above before I was finished.
> > >
> > > Anyway, I'd like to pick some brains of those who've transitioned from
> a
> > > similar environment. Did you just rewrite the Bash routines? That's got
> > to
> > > be a pain. Is there nothing out there that does a lot of the same
> stuff?
> > I
> > > primarily used the DTS (DateTimeStamp) and DSS modules. UI probably
> used
> > > NULL, too, but not much. I'm a little worried about all the time it
> will
> > > take to recreate this functionality.
> > >
> > > Most of the other stuff, I think I'm going to be okay upgrading.
> Active4D
> > > and ObjectTools are still supported by Aparajita Fishman, and PDF
> Plugin
> > > and PostgreSQL Plugin are in good hands with Rob Laveaux. AreaList Pro
> I
> > > see has changed hands and the licensing structure has changed. Are
> there
> > > any other surprises there, or should the upgrade be pretty
> > straightforward?
> > >
> > > Do I make the leap all the way from 2004 to v15, or should I try to
> shoot
> > > for interim versions? Do I need to get each version to work, or will
> the
> > > data upgrade from version to version be fine from an uncompiled (and
> > > non-functioning) version. I know I'll have to remove the components,
> like
> > > Bash. What other lovely surprises await me?
> > >
> > > Many thanks ahead of time!
> > > Doug Hall
> > >
> > >> On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 4:17 PM, Doug Hall  >
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> For various reasons, we have put off upgrading 4D. We originally
> > intended
> > >> to just move off of 4D all at once, but that turned out to be
> > impossible.
> > >> I've added onto our existing structure in spurts, but for the most
> part,
> > >> I've been out of active 4D development for almost a decade, now.So,
> now
> > I
> > >> begin the journey of a million miles, with a single step. The first is
> > >> advise from you guys. Should I shoot for an interim version, say v13,
> > or is
> > >> it possible (practical) to go all the way from 2004 to v15?
> > >>
> > >> I know that the Bash component we're using has not been supported for
> > >> years. Has anyone reverse engineered the methods in this component? If
> > so,
> > >> please email me privately.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Here's what we're currently using in 4D 2004:
> > >>
> > >> Foundation (v3.7.2?)
> > >>
> > >> Components:
> > >> Bash Component: I've heard there is no way to upgrade. Please advise.
> > >> Rollover (Used by ToolBar) No longer available.
> > >>
> > >> Plugins:
> > >> AreaList Pro 7.9
> > >> Active4D
> > >> MD5 Plugin
> > >> PDF Plugin
> > >> PostgreSQL Plugin
> > > **
> > > 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> > > FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
> > > Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> > > Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
> > > Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com 
> > > **
> > **
> > 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> > FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
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> >
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-- 

Regards,

Wayne


[image: --]
Wayne Stewart
[image: http://]about.me/waynestewart

**
4D Internet 

Re: Upgrading 2004 to v15

[Doug Hall]

When you guys say you've moved from 4D 2004 to v13 (or later) in one go,
you don't mean that the data file converts seamlessly jumping straight to
those later versions, do you? I'm working under the assumption that the
data file must be opened and manipulated with contiguous versions, but that
the CODE can jump (with a lot of rework) from 2004 to v15. Is this right?

Thanks!

On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 4:34 AM, Peter Mew  wrote:

> Hi Doug
> I upgraded a 2004 database to v13 in one go.
> I had to rewrite some code for plugins no longer supported, many of the
> routines for which a plug was used, are now available in native 4D.
> I upgraded ALP to the latest version. There were no major problems with
> the 4D code.
> Good luck
> -pm
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On 30 Aug 2016, at 22:30, Doug Hall  wrote:
> >
> > Oops. I accidentally sent the above before I was finished.
> >
> > Anyway, I'd like to pick some brains of those who've transitioned from a
> > similar environment. Did you just rewrite the Bash routines? That's got
> to
> > be a pain. Is there nothing out there that does a lot of the same stuff?
> I
> > primarily used the DTS (DateTimeStamp) and DSS modules. UI probably used
> > NULL, too, but not much. I'm a little worried about all the time it will
> > take to recreate this functionality.
> >
> > Most of the other stuff, I think I'm going to be okay upgrading. Active4D
> > and ObjectTools are still supported by Aparajita Fishman, and PDF Plugin
> > and PostgreSQL Plugin are in good hands with Rob Laveaux. AreaList Pro I
> > see has changed hands and the licensing structure has changed. Are there
> > any other surprises there, or should the upgrade be pretty
> straightforward?
> >
> > Do I make the leap all the way from 2004 to v15, or should I try to shoot
> > for interim versions? Do I need to get each version to work, or will the
> > data upgrade from version to version be fine from an uncompiled (and
> > non-functioning) version. I know I'll have to remove the components, like
> > Bash. What other lovely surprises await me?
> >
> > Many thanks ahead of time!
> > Doug Hall
> >
> >> On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 4:17 PM, Doug Hall 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> For various reasons, we have put off upgrading 4D. We originally
> intended
> >> to just move off of 4D all at once, but that turned out to be
> impossible.
> >> I've added onto our existing structure in spurts, but for the most part,
> >> I've been out of active 4D development for almost a decade, now.So, now
> I
> >> begin the journey of a million miles, with a single step. The first is
> >> advise from you guys. Should I shoot for an interim version, say v13,
> or is
> >> it possible (practical) to go all the way from 2004 to v15?
> >>
> >> I know that the Bash component we're using has not been supported for
> >> years. Has anyone reverse engineered the methods in this component? If
> so,
> >> please email me privately.
> >>
> >>
> >> Here's what we're currently using in 4D 2004:
> >>
> >> Foundation (v3.7.2?)
> >>
> >> Components:
> >> Bash Component: I've heard there is no way to upgrade. Please advise.
> >> Rollover (Used by ToolBar) No longer available.
> >>
> >> Plugins:
> >> AreaList Pro 7.9
> >> Active4D
> >> MD5 Plugin
> >> PDF Plugin
> >> PostgreSQL Plugin
> > **
> > 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> > FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
> > Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> > Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
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Re: Upgrading 2004 to v15

[Chip Scheide]

proof reading...

Moving .. stuff.. is **NOW** just drag n drop between 2 open databases


also, after locating something with Find in Design, you can globally 
change it.
if you use a variable my_text_var_t
and you find you want/need to retype (as in data type) to long int and 
want to rename it to match you can use the replace in content function 
to change it to: my_Longint_var_l
and all displayed occurrences are replaced

On Wed, 31 Aug 2016 10:28:35 -0400, Chip Scheide wrote:
> 
> 
> Moving .. stuff.. is not just drag n drop between 2 open databases. 
> Need a form from system 1 in system 2?
> open both, drag from 1 to 2.
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Re: Upgrading 2004 to v15

[Chip Scheide]

Yes and no
4d has implemented a system of 'Find in Design' that, mostly, replaces 
Insider.
It does some things that insider didn't, and there are a few things 
that insider did that the new system does not.

Find in design does the insider cross referencing, live; BUT, it does 
so only on the entered request.
so there is no Xref to look through, BUT you can ask : Where is this 
variable/field/text/command/table/etc. used and get an answer in a 
second or 2.

There are menu functions to allow finding unused local and global vars, 
and methods.

Moving .. stuff.. is not just drag n drop between 2 open databases. 
Need a form from system 1 in system 2?
open both, drag from 1 to 2.

On Tue, 30 Aug 2016 18:03:04 -0500, Doug Hall wrote:
> 4D Insider will help me
> locate stuff I'm not using. By the way, is there a replacement for that
> functionality now that there is no more 4D Insider?
**
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Re: Upgrading 2004 to v15

[Peter Mew]

Hi Doug
I upgraded a 2004 database to v13 in one go.
I had to rewrite some code for plugins no longer supported, many of the 
routines for which a plug was used, are now available in native 4D.
I upgraded ALP to the latest version. There were no major problems with the 4D 
code.
Good luck
-pm

Sent from my iPad

> On 30 Aug 2016, at 22:30, Doug Hall  wrote:
> 
> Oops. I accidentally sent the above before I was finished.
> 
> Anyway, I'd like to pick some brains of those who've transitioned from a
> similar environment. Did you just rewrite the Bash routines? That's got to
> be a pain. Is there nothing out there that does a lot of the same stuff? I
> primarily used the DTS (DateTimeStamp) and DSS modules. UI probably used
> NULL, too, but not much. I'm a little worried about all the time it will
> take to recreate this functionality.
> 
> Most of the other stuff, I think I'm going to be okay upgrading. Active4D
> and ObjectTools are still supported by Aparajita Fishman, and PDF Plugin
> and PostgreSQL Plugin are in good hands with Rob Laveaux. AreaList Pro I
> see has changed hands and the licensing structure has changed. Are there
> any other surprises there, or should the upgrade be pretty straightforward?
> 
> Do I make the leap all the way from 2004 to v15, or should I try to shoot
> for interim versions? Do I need to get each version to work, or will the
> data upgrade from version to version be fine from an uncompiled (and
> non-functioning) version. I know I'll have to remove the components, like
> Bash. What other lovely surprises await me?
> 
> Many thanks ahead of time!
> Doug Hall
> 
>> On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 4:17 PM, Doug Hall  wrote:
>> 
>> For various reasons, we have put off upgrading 4D. We originally intended
>> to just move off of 4D all at once, but that turned out to be impossible.
>> I've added onto our existing structure in spurts, but for the most part,
>> I've been out of active 4D development for almost a decade, now.So, now I
>> begin the journey of a million miles, with a single step. The first is
>> advise from you guys. Should I shoot for an interim version, say v13, or is
>> it possible (practical) to go all the way from 2004 to v15?
>> 
>> I know that the Bash component we're using has not been supported for
>> years. Has anyone reverse engineered the methods in this component? If so,
>> please email me privately.
>> 
>> 
>> Here's what we're currently using in 4D 2004:
>> 
>> Foundation (v3.7.2?)
>> 
>> Components:
>> Bash Component: I've heard there is no way to upgrade. Please advise.
>> Rollover (Used by ToolBar) No longer available.
>> 
>> Plugins:
>> AreaList Pro 7.9
>> Active4D
>> MD5 Plugin
>> PDF Plugin
>> PostgreSQL Plugin
> **
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
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Re: Upgrading 2004 to v15

[Philippe Ganter]

Doug,

As far as our plugins are concerned you’ll need to upgrade AreaList PrintList 
Pro and PrintList Pro to the current versions:

www.e-node.net/alp
www.e-node.net/plp

Best regards,
-- 
Phil
forums.e-node.net


> On 30 Aug 2016, at 23:17, Doug Hall  wrote:
> 
> For various reasons, we have put off upgrading 4D. We originally intended
> to just move off of 4D all at once, but that turned out to be impossible.
> I've added onto our existing structure in spurts, but for the most part,
> I've been out of active 4D development for almost a decade, now.So, now I
> begin the journey of a million miles, with a single step. The first is
> advise from you guys. Should I shoot for an interim version, say v13, or is
> it possible (practical) to go all the way from 2004 to v15?
> 
> I know that the Bash component we're using has not been supported for
> years. Has anyone reverse engineered the methods in this component? If so,
> please email me privately.
> 
> 
> Here's what we're currently using in 4D 2004:
> 
> Foundation (v3.7.2?)
> 
> Components:
> Bash Component: I've heard there is no way to upgrade. Please advise.
> Rollover (Used by ToolBar) No longer available.
> 
> Plugins:
> AreaList Pro 7.9
> Active4D
> MD5 Plugin
> PDF Plugin
> PostgreSQL Plugin
















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Re: Upgrading 2004 to v15

[Doug Hall]

Thanks, Guy. I'll definitely check it out.

On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 6:57 PM, Guy Algot  wrote:

> No problem Doug. If it changes let me know.
>
> You probably want to visit the Foundation page and upgrade your component.
> There’s also a support list over there as well.
>
> > On Aug 30, 2016, at 5:03 PM, Doug Hall  wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for the responses so far! I'm so glad I still have help here! (I'm
> > gonna need it.) How wonderful to hear from some of you old-timers -- all
> > the way back to the CompuServe days (Douglas von Roeder and Lee Hinde for
> > sure, and Chip Scheide might have been around in those days. My memory
> > fails me.) I can hear that blasted 9600 baud modem screeching, to this
> day!
> > :-))  <--- Yes, I've adopted a double chin, now. Gotta get rid of that
> > stupid thing. :-((
> >
> > After a little plowing through 4D Insider, I've found a few plugins that
> I
> > wasn't even using, but never bothered to clean out. I've already
> > removed Expat4D, 4D Open and PrintList Pro. I had already removed the MD5
> > plugin I mentioned earlier, but I had forgotten I had. (I was working off
> > an old list of plugins.)
> >
> > Before I waste more of your time, I'm going to need to dive into the
> > upgrade manuals and do some further preening of my code, to make sure
> that
> > I'm only porting the code that I'm actually using. 4D Insider will help
> me
> > locate stuff I'm not using. By the way, is there a replacement for that
> > functionality now that there is no more 4D Insider?
> >
> > I am glad to hear that it's actually possible to go straight to v15. I'm
> > going to have lots of questions along the way. I hope you guys don't get
> > tired of me.
> >
> > Guy Algot, I appreciate the offer of help, but we're pretty low budget in
> > this state office. Just upgrading the software is sending shock waves. I
> > appreciate the offer, though.
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 4:45 PM, Chip Scheide <4d_o...@pghrepository.org
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> as for BASH:
> >> list which methods in it you are using.  THere are likely bits of code
> >> out there to replace the functionality (if 4D has not already done that)
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, 30 Aug 2016 16:17:26 -0500, Doug Hall wrote:
> >>> For various reasons, we have put off upgrading 4D. We originally
> intended
> >>> to just move off of 4D all at once, but that turned out to be
> impossible.
> >>> I've added onto our existing structure in spurts, but for the most
> part,
> >>> I've been out of active 4D development for almost a decade, now.So,
> now I
> >>> begin the journey of a million miles, with a single step. The first is
> >>> advise from you guys. Should I shoot for an interim version, say v13,
> or
> >> is
> >>> it possible (practical) to go all the way from 2004 to v15?
> >>>
> >>> I know that the Bash component we're using has not been supported for
> >>> years. Has anyone reverse engineered the methods in this component? If
> >> so,
> >>> please email me privately.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Here's what we're currently using in 4D 2004:
> >>>
> >>> Foundation (v3.7.2?)
> >>>
> >>> Components:
> >>> Bash Component: I've heard there is no way to upgrade. Please advise.
> >>> Rollover (Used by ToolBar) No longer available.
> >>>
> >>> Plugins:
> >>> AreaList Pro 7.9
> >>> Active4D
> >>> MD5 Plugin
> >>> PDF Plugin
> >>> PostgreSQL Plugin
> >>>
>
>
> **
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Re: Upgrading 2004 to v15

[Guy Algot]

No problem Doug. If it changes let me know.

You probably want to visit the Foundation page and upgrade your component. 
There’s also a support list over there as well.

> On Aug 30, 2016, at 5:03 PM, Doug Hall  wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the responses so far! I'm so glad I still have help here! (I'm
> gonna need it.) How wonderful to hear from some of you old-timers -- all
> the way back to the CompuServe days (Douglas von Roeder and Lee Hinde for
> sure, and Chip Scheide might have been around in those days. My memory
> fails me.) I can hear that blasted 9600 baud modem screeching, to this day!
> :-))  <--- Yes, I've adopted a double chin, now. Gotta get rid of that
> stupid thing. :-((
> 
> After a little plowing through 4D Insider, I've found a few plugins that I
> wasn't even using, but never bothered to clean out. I've already
> removed Expat4D, 4D Open and PrintList Pro. I had already removed the MD5
> plugin I mentioned earlier, but I had forgotten I had. (I was working off
> an old list of plugins.)
> 
> Before I waste more of your time, I'm going to need to dive into the
> upgrade manuals and do some further preening of my code, to make sure that
> I'm only porting the code that I'm actually using. 4D Insider will help me
> locate stuff I'm not using. By the way, is there a replacement for that
> functionality now that there is no more 4D Insider?
> 
> I am glad to hear that it's actually possible to go straight to v15. I'm
> going to have lots of questions along the way. I hope you guys don't get
> tired of me.
> 
> Guy Algot, I appreciate the offer of help, but we're pretty low budget in
> this state office. Just upgrading the software is sending shock waves. I
> appreciate the offer, though.
> 
> 
> On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 4:45 PM, Chip Scheide <4d_o...@pghrepository.org>
> wrote:
> 
>> as for BASH:
>> list which methods in it you are using.  THere are likely bits of code
>> out there to replace the functionality (if 4D has not already done that)
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, 30 Aug 2016 16:17:26 -0500, Doug Hall wrote:
>>> For various reasons, we have put off upgrading 4D. We originally intended
>>> to just move off of 4D all at once, but that turned out to be impossible.
>>> I've added onto our existing structure in spurts, but for the most part,
>>> I've been out of active 4D development for almost a decade, now.So, now I
>>> begin the journey of a million miles, with a single step. The first is
>>> advise from you guys. Should I shoot for an interim version, say v13, or
>> is
>>> it possible (practical) to go all the way from 2004 to v15?
>>> 
>>> I know that the Bash component we're using has not been supported for
>>> years. Has anyone reverse engineered the methods in this component? If
>> so,
>>> please email me privately.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Here's what we're currently using in 4D 2004:
>>> 
>>> Foundation (v3.7.2?)
>>> 
>>> Components:
>>> Bash Component: I've heard there is no way to upgrade. Please advise.
>>> Rollover (Used by ToolBar) No longer available.
>>> 
>>> Plugins:
>>> AreaList Pro 7.9
>>> Active4D
>>> MD5 Plugin
>>> PDF Plugin
>>> PostgreSQL Plugin
>>> 


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Re: Upgrading 2004 to v15

[Lee Hinde]

No, but you can quickly search the database for specific objects. 
Command/Control-Shift-F


> On Aug 30, 2016, at 4:03 PM, Doug Hall  wrote:
> 
> Before I waste more of your time, I'm going to need to dive into the
> upgrade manuals and do some further preening of my code, to make sure that
> I'm only porting the code that I'm actually using. 4D Insider will help me
> locate stuff I'm not using. By the way, is there a replacement for that
> functionality now that there is no more 4D Insider?

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Re: Upgrading 2004 to v15

[Doug Hall]

Thanks for the responses so far! I'm so glad I still have help here! (I'm
gonna need it.) How wonderful to hear from some of you old-timers -- all
the way back to the CompuServe days (Douglas von Roeder and Lee Hinde for
sure, and Chip Scheide might have been around in those days. My memory
fails me.) I can hear that blasted 9600 baud modem screeching, to this day!
:-))  <--- Yes, I've adopted a double chin, now. Gotta get rid of that
stupid thing. :-((

After a little plowing through 4D Insider, I've found a few plugins that I
wasn't even using, but never bothered to clean out. I've already
removed Expat4D, 4D Open and PrintList Pro. I had already removed the MD5
plugin I mentioned earlier, but I had forgotten I had. (I was working off
an old list of plugins.)

Before I waste more of your time, I'm going to need to dive into the
upgrade manuals and do some further preening of my code, to make sure that
I'm only porting the code that I'm actually using. 4D Insider will help me
locate stuff I'm not using. By the way, is there a replacement for that
functionality now that there is no more 4D Insider?

I am glad to hear that it's actually possible to go straight to v15. I'm
going to have lots of questions along the way. I hope you guys don't get
tired of me.

Guy Algot, I appreciate the offer of help, but we're pretty low budget in
this state office. Just upgrading the software is sending shock waves. I
appreciate the offer, though.


On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 4:45 PM, Chip Scheide <4d_o...@pghrepository.org>
wrote:

> as for BASH:
> list which methods in it you are using.  THere are likely bits of code
> out there to replace the functionality (if 4D has not already done that)
>
>
> On Tue, 30 Aug 2016 16:17:26 -0500, Doug Hall wrote:
> > For various reasons, we have put off upgrading 4D. We originally intended
> > to just move off of 4D all at once, but that turned out to be impossible.
> > I've added onto our existing structure in spurts, but for the most part,
> > I've been out of active 4D development for almost a decade, now.So, now I
> > begin the journey of a million miles, with a single step. The first is
> > advise from you guys. Should I shoot for an interim version, say v13, or
> is
> > it possible (practical) to go all the way from 2004 to v15?
> >
> > I know that the Bash component we're using has not been supported for
> > years. Has anyone reverse engineered the methods in this component? If
> so,
> > please email me privately.
> >
> >
> > Here's what we're currently using in 4D 2004:
> >
> > Foundation (v3.7.2?)
> >
> > Components:
> > Bash Component: I've heard there is no way to upgrade. Please advise.
> > Rollover (Used by ToolBar) No longer available.
> >
> > Plugins:
> > AreaList Pro 7.9
> > Active4D
> > MD5 Plugin
> > PDF Plugin
> > PostgreSQL Plugin
> > **
> > 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> > FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
> > Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
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> > **
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Re: Upgrading 2004 to v15

[Chip Scheide]

as for BASH:
list which methods in it you are using.  THere are likely bits of code 
out there to replace the functionality (if 4D has not already done that)


On Tue, 30 Aug 2016 16:17:26 -0500, Doug Hall wrote:
> For various reasons, we have put off upgrading 4D. We originally intended
> to just move off of 4D all at once, but that turned out to be impossible.
> I've added onto our existing structure in spurts, but for the most part,
> I've been out of active 4D development for almost a decade, now.So, now I
> begin the journey of a million miles, with a single step. The first is
> advise from you guys. Should I shoot for an interim version, say v13, or is
> it possible (practical) to go all the way from 2004 to v15?
> 
> I know that the Bash component we're using has not been supported for
> years. Has anyone reverse engineered the methods in this component? If so,
> please email me privately.
> 
> 
> Here's what we're currently using in 4D 2004:
> 
> Foundation (v3.7.2?)
> 
> Components:
> Bash Component: I've heard there is no way to upgrade. Please advise.
> Rollover (Used by ToolBar) No longer available.
> 
> Plugins:
> AreaList Pro 7.9
> Active4D
> MD5 Plugin
> PDF Plugin
> PostgreSQL Plugin
> **
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
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Re: Upgrading 2004 to v15

[Doug Hall]

Oops. I accidentally sent the above before I was finished.

Anyway, I'd like to pick some brains of those who've transitioned from a
similar environment. Did you just rewrite the Bash routines? That's got to
be a pain. Is there nothing out there that does a lot of the same stuff? I
primarily used the DTS (DateTimeStamp) and DSS modules. UI probably used
NULL, too, but not much. I'm a little worried about all the time it will
take to recreate this functionality.

Most of the other stuff, I think I'm going to be okay upgrading. Active4D
and ObjectTools are still supported by Aparajita Fishman, and PDF Plugin
and PostgreSQL Plugin are in good hands with Rob Laveaux. AreaList Pro I
see has changed hands and the licensing structure has changed. Are there
any other surprises there, or should the upgrade be pretty straightforward?

Do I make the leap all the way from 2004 to v15, or should I try to shoot
for interim versions? Do I need to get each version to work, or will the
data upgrade from version to version be fine from an uncompiled (and
non-functioning) version. I know I'll have to remove the components, like
Bash. What other lovely surprises await me?

Many thanks ahead of time!
Doug Hall

On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 4:17 PM, Doug Hall  wrote:

> For various reasons, we have put off upgrading 4D. We originally intended
> to just move off of 4D all at once, but that turned out to be impossible.
> I've added onto our existing structure in spurts, but for the most part,
> I've been out of active 4D development for almost a decade, now.So, now I
> begin the journey of a million miles, with a single step. The first is
> advise from you guys. Should I shoot for an interim version, say v13, or is
> it possible (practical) to go all the way from 2004 to v15?
>
> I know that the Bash component we're using has not been supported for
> years. Has anyone reverse engineered the methods in this component? If so,
> please email me privately.
>
>
> Here's what we're currently using in 4D 2004:
>
> Foundation (v3.7.2?)
>
> Components:
> Bash Component: I've heard there is no way to upgrade. Please advise.
> Rollover (Used by ToolBar) No longer available.
>
> Plugins:
> AreaList Pro 7.9
> Active4D
> MD5 Plugin
> PDF Plugin
> PostgreSQL Plugin
>
>
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