Re: [9fans] gar nix!
hey, ron.
On Fri Sep 16 01:57:04 EDT 2011, rminn...@gmail.com wrote:
> for the 2M pages -- I'm willing to see some measurement but let's get
> the #s -- I've done some simple measurements and it's not the hit one
> would expect. These new machines have about 10 GB/s bandwidth (well,
> the ones we are targeting do) and that translates to sub-millisecond
> times to zero a 2M page. Further, the text page is in the image cache.
> So after first exec of a program, the only text issue is locating the
> page. It's not simply a case of having to write 6M each time you exec.
however, neither the stack nor the heap are. that's 4MB that need to be
cleared. that sounds like an operation that could take on the order of
ms, and well-worth measuring.
maybe it might make sense to use 4k pages for stack, and sometime for
the heap.
> I note that starting a proc, allocating and zeroing 2 GiB, takes
> *less* time with 2M pages than 4K pages -- this was measured in May
> when we still were supporting 4K pages -- the page faults are far more
i'll try to get some numbers soon, but i think a higher priority is to get
a smp setup. is anyone testing with smp right now?
are you sure this isn't the difference between throughput and latency?
did you try a small-executable test like
for(i in `{seq 1 100})dd -if /dev/zero -of /dev/null -quiet 1
? now that the code has been removed, it's a little harder to replicate your
numbers.
> expensive than the time to write the memory. Again, YMMV, esp. on an
> Atom, but the cost of taking (say) 6 page faults for a 24k text
> segment that's already in memory may not be what you want.
>
> There are plenty of games to be played to reduce the cost of zero
> filled pages but at least from what I measured the 2M pages are not a
> real hit.
i'm okay with the atom suffering a little bit (odd how far down the food
chain one can get 64 bits!), i'm actually more concerned about
being punshed severely for forking on a beefy but busy machine.
the atom is just my test mule.
(can't one just preemptively map the whole text on first-fault?)
- erik
p.s. i guess the claim i thought i saw that you need 1gb pages
isn't correct. that's good, but i need to track down why i don't see 'em on
the atom.
Re: [9fans] gar nix!
for the 2M pages -- I'm willing to see some measurement but let's get the #s -- I've done some simple measurements and it's not the hit one would expect. These new machines have about 10 GB/s bandwidth (well, the ones we are targeting do) and that translates to sub-millisecond times to zero a 2M page. Further, the text page is in the image cache. So after first exec of a program, the only text issue is locating the page. It's not simply a case of having to write 6M each time you exec. I note that starting a proc, allocating and zeroing 2 GiB, takes *less* time with 2M pages than 4K pages -- this was measured in May when we still were supporting 4K pages -- the page faults are far more expensive than the time to write the memory. Again, YMMV, esp. on an Atom, but the cost of taking (say) 6 page faults for a 24k text segment that's already in memory may not be what you want. There are plenty of games to be played to reduce the cost of zero filled pages but at least from what I measured the 2M pages are not a real hit. ron
Re: [9fans] my kingdom for a web browser :-P
On Sep 15, 2011, at 17:31, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote: > None of these integrate with the native environment. I.e. I can't plumb a > URL to Firefox running under the Not out of the box, no. But the plumber's remarkably flexible, and especially if someone had p9p running inside your virtual environment, I'd be shocked if that sort of cross-VM plumbing (pardon the terminology overloading) couldn't be done in an hour. I've done it between OS X and Plan 9 via drawterm in about 20 minutes, and while I do think that's a bit of an easier target, not by more than an order of magnitude.
Re: [9fans] gar nix!
Submit these changes as code reviews. See /PROCESS if anything is unclear about
how to do that.
Sent from my iPad
On Sep 16, 2011, at 3:19 AM, erik quanstrom wrote:
> well, after a bit of a time resembling /sys/src/cmd/aux/vga/adventure
> i currently have my atom box running nix. unfortunately, only one
> core is recognized. but i'll just have to leave one or two things till
> tomorrow.
>
> here are a list of a few things i tripped on
>
> 1. unfortunately, ppxeload isn't ready to load a .gz. i added a bit of
> code to at least not jump unconditionally to an x86 binary, but that's
> just not enough. need to revisit this.
>
> 2. ppxeload accepts only the old-and-wierd serial baud setting and
> not the kernel-standard, e.g. "0 b115200". i did fix this.
>
> 3. the 8169 driver wasn't working. i just dropped the one from 9load
> on top. inelegant, but effective.
>
> (i did have a 82563 chip going for a while that wasn't recognized. also
> needed to drop in a new driver for this, but since then the hardware has
> died.)
>
> 4. panic on memory init. this was caused because the only page color was
> 6, thus when starting in the array of page colors at 0, you won't find any.
> . i worked around this with this bit of code.
>
> ; diffy -c physalloc.c
> /n/dump/2011/0915/sys/src/nix/k10/physalloc.c:236,242 - physalloc.c:236,244
> uintmem m;
>
> DBG("physalloc\n");
> -assert(b->size > 0);
> +if(b->size == 0)
> +return 0;
> + //assert(b->size > 0);
>
> avail = b->avail;
> blocks = b->blocks;
>
> i need to go back and investigate if this is a problem with memory recognition
> or what.
>
> 5. needed to update 8169 and 82563 in the kernel.
>
> 6. had an old version of 6l that expected to make 4k pages. by the way,
> (won't we pay a heavy price for forking and/or execing small programs
> with 2mb pages? this means that each fork/exec is going to be at least
> 6mb worth of messing around.)
>
> it looks like my processors aren't recognized, and i'm pretty sure that the
> atom supports 1gb pages, but they aren't recognized either.
>
> - erik
>
Re: [9fans] Nemo book
On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 8:02 PM, Ethan Grammatikidis wrote: > On Wed, 14 Sep 2011 18:41:29 -0400 > L N wrote: > > > The goal should be a Plan 9 "distro" that runs natively on AMD-64, and > can > > open a web-browser. > > That "goal" is a target moving at approximately the speed of light. > Specifically, the "open a web browser" part of it is. > > A virtualizer running on Plan 9 would waste far less time than implementing > enough Linux syscalls to run a Linux distro new enough to run any browser > newer than Opera 9. > Is running Opera on Plan 9 an option? Also, I don't know how to get abaco running. Downloaded the tarball ... http://rain.ifmo.ru/~olegfink/abaco-p9p.tgz Unpacked it, ran mk. Ran ./abaco.sh. Got this far ... ./abaco.sh ./abaco.sh: 7: webfs: not found ./abaco.sh: 10: abaco.bin: not found Apologies for being helpless. - Leonard
Re: [9fans] Nemo book
2011/9/16 ron minnich : > On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 5:02 PM, Ethan Grammatikidis > wrote: >> On Wed, 14 Sep 2011 18:41:29 -0400 >> L N wrote: >> >>> The goal should be a Plan 9 "distro" that runs natively on AMD-64, and can >>> open a web-browser. >> >> That "goal" is a target moving at approximately the speed of light. >> Specifically, the "open a web browser" part of it is. >> >> A virtualizer running on Plan 9 would waste far less time than implementing >> enough Linux syscalls to run a Linux distro new enough to run any browser >> newer than Opera 9. > > That's a very interesting point. Implementing lguest on Plan 9 would > require something like 13 "system calls". Far easier than doing the > near-400 system calls of linux correctly. > > ron > > Just out of interest, has anyone made a cross compiler either for the 32-bit Plan9 or 64-bit Nix target? I have been looking a bit into the possibility of packaging the old GCC 3.0 as a cross compiler on Arch linux. At the moment my builds fail miserably since the build assumes that you build on a Plan9 host (hard links in the binutils build to i386-lucent-plan9-ar etc). A newer version (>4.6) would be cooler since it also supports the plan9 dialect of C. On the other hand, the cross compiler would just be a neat way to build legacy stuff without having to worry about having all the GNU tools on the target machine. Alternatively - would a newlib approach be a better bet to get binutils/gcc going? I have been trying to read up on it and to try to locate the syscall information I need from plan9 libc. If anyone got any pointers on how to do this, it would be appreciated :) I am a total nooob on this though (unfortunately with very little time, so my efforts are sporadic) Ps. I have an experimental PKGBUILD for nix on my machine. The basic idea I got with that one is: - static root at /opt/vx32/nix/root - changes at /opt/vx32/nix/changes - /usr/glenda moved to /home/glenda, user "glenda" added to system (directory /opt/vx32/nix/usr removed) - union mount /opt/nix/vx32/nix/root and /opt/nix/vx32/nix/changes at /mnt/nix - mount /home at /mnt/nix/usr It is not ready for public consumption yet however. - One thing I wonder there about 9vx is - can you add a command line argument to start a script in the plan9 that boots? Right now building/packaging nix requires manual intervention in the booted plan9 environment during packaging. Also, it would be nice to have a "firstrun" part in the startup script for a user so that the system executes /sys/lib/newuser. This in combination with a cross compiler would turn playing with Plan9 far easier and more fun :)
Re: [9fans] my kingdom for a web browser :-P
Than you? I agree. On 16 September 2011 12:46, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote: >> If you can't run your holy grail (back off about badgers) - a web >> browser > > What do you mean? The badgers are better conversationalists. > > -- Don't meddle in the mouth -- MVS (0416935147, +1-513-3BRUCEE)
Re: [9fans] my kingdom for a web browser :-P
If you can't run your holy grail (back off about badgers) - a web browser What do you mean? The badgers are better conversationalists.
Re: [9fans] my kingdom for a web browser :-P
If you can't run your holy grail (back off about badgers) - a web browser - and plan9 on the same cheap ass machine (or two if you insist on a native bunny) then I believe you can apply to the United Nations for Whining Remedial Sillyman Assistance - and get off my grass. brucee On 16 September 2011 11:21, erik quanstrom wrote: >> and running the browser there? (I fully expect Eric to leap in here and >> point out he has nothing other than Plan9 running :-) Anyone else?) > > i'm running a few embedded oses, too, and as of 5 minutes ago, nix. > > - erik > > -- Don't meddle in the mouth -- MVS (0416935147, +1-513-3BRUCEE)
[9fans] gar nix!
well, after a bit of a time resembling /sys/src/cmd/aux/vga/adventure
i currently have my atom box running nix. unfortunately, only one
core is recognized. but i'll just have to leave one or two things till
tomorrow.
here are a list of a few things i tripped on
1. unfortunately, ppxeload isn't ready to load a .gz. i added a bit of
code to at least not jump unconditionally to an x86 binary, but that's
just not enough. need to revisit this.
2. ppxeload accepts only the old-and-wierd serial baud setting and
not the kernel-standard, e.g. "0 b115200". i did fix this.
3. the 8169 driver wasn't working. i just dropped the one from 9load
on top. inelegant, but effective.
(i did have a 82563 chip going for a while that wasn't recognized. also
needed to drop in a new driver for this, but since then the hardware has
died.)
4. panic on memory init. this was caused because the only page color was
6, thus when starting in the array of page colors at 0, you won't find any.
. i worked around this with this bit of code.
; diffy -c physalloc.c
/n/dump/2011/0915/sys/src/nix/k10/physalloc.c:236,242 - physalloc.c:236,244
uintmem m;
DBG("physalloc\n");
- assert(b->size > 0);
+ if(b->size == 0)
+ return 0;
+ //assert(b->size > 0);
avail = b->avail;
blocks = b->blocks;
i need to go back and investigate if this is a problem with memory recognition
or what.
5. needed to update 8169 and 82563 in the kernel.
6. had an old version of 6l that expected to make 4k pages. by the way,
(won't we pay a heavy price for forking and/or execing small programs
with 2mb pages? this means that each fork/exec is going to be at least
6mb worth of messing around.)
it looks like my processors aren't recognized, and i'm pretty sure that the
atom supports 1gb pages, but they aren't recognized either.
- erik
Re: [9fans] my kingdom for a web browser :-P
> and running the browser there? (I fully expect Eric to leap in here and > point out he has nothing other than Plan9 running :-) Anyone else?) i'm running a few embedded oses, too, and as of 5 minutes ago, nix. - erik
Re: [9fans] my kingdom for a web browser :-P
But doing the lguest bit might be fun for someone. No doubt, but please don't sully the idea of doing something for the sheer pleasure of learning with the idea that life without the web isn't worth living. (Wait, that just might have solved the problem ...) On a slightly related note, I did spend a bit of time poking around the W3C source code archives. If someone consumed enough mescaline there's a chance the core libraries could be ported, leading to a lynx-like native client. And a graphics-free browser is still a (mostly) viable option these days. I'm living on the boat right now, behind an insanely expensive 3G data stick, so I run Firefox with graphics turned off. I've only had to enable graphics for one site that simply won't function without its GIF buttons. I don't think there's any hope of getting away without Javascript anymore, though :-P --lyndon
Re: [9fans] my kingdom for a web browser :-P
But doing the lguest bit might be fun for someone. ron
[9fans] my kingdom for a web browser :-P
On Thu, 15 Sep 2011, ron minnich wrote: wrote: A virtualizer running on Plan 9 would waste far less time than implementing enough Linux syscalls to run a Linux distro new enough to run any browser newer than Opera 9. That's a very interesting point. Implementing lguest on Plan 9 would require something like 13 "system calls". Far easier than doing the near-400 system calls of linux correctly. But all of these 'solutions' mean running a foreign binary under some sort of emulation. None of these integrate with the native environment. I.e. I can't plumb a URL to Firefox running under the linuxulator. (Can I? If there's a way I can't find it.) And that being the case, how are these emulated browsers any different from cranking up vncv to an external host and running the browser there? (I fully expect Eric to leap in here and point out he has nothing other than Plan9 running :-) Anyone else?) While it's mildly annoying, I still manage quite well with vncv and Firefox running on a UNIX host. Said host has u9fs and mounts under /n on the Plan9 hosts, so it's not that difficult to save things and copy them into a permanent home on the file server. And it's trivial to code up an rc script that uses ssh to pass URLs to a remote browser instance. Wouldn't we be better off rewriting the Plan 9 kernel in Javascript? --lyndon
Re: [9fans] Nemo book
> That's a very interesting point. Implementing lguest on Plan 9 would > require something like 13 "system calls". Far easier than doing the > near-400 system calls of linux correctly. i believe there's at least 2 and they're working on 3 abi for each system call. it's like FAR and HUGE pointers are back from the dead. - erik
Re: [9fans] Nemo book
On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 5:02 PM, Ethan Grammatikidis wrote: > On Wed, 14 Sep 2011 18:41:29 -0400 > L N wrote: > >> The goal should be a Plan 9 "distro" that runs natively on AMD-64, and can >> open a web-browser. > > That "goal" is a target moving at approximately the speed of light. > Specifically, the "open a web browser" part of it is. > > A virtualizer running on Plan 9 would waste far less time than implementing > enough Linux syscalls to run a Linux distro new enough to run any browser > newer than Opera 9. That's a very interesting point. Implementing lguest on Plan 9 would require something like 13 "system calls". Far easier than doing the near-400 system calls of linux correctly. ron
Re: [9fans] Nemo book
On Wed, 14 Sep 2011 18:41:29 -0400 L N wrote: > The goal should be a Plan 9 "distro" that runs natively on AMD-64, and can > open a web-browser. That "goal" is a target moving at approximately the speed of light. Specifically, the "open a web browser" part of it is. A virtualizer running on Plan 9 would waste far less time than implementing enough Linux syscalls to run a Linux distro new enough to run any browser newer than Opera 9.
Re: [9fans] Plan 9 is dead
O rinnovarsi o perire http://books.google.com/books?id=n_p0TmPHIJwC&pg=PA166&q=O%20rinnovarsi%20o%20perire Anyway, I guess you're pissed that you have to use Hg and install Python? Sorry, but Plan 9 can't reinvent the wheel in 2011. Just consider how MIT dropped Scheme for Python in intro courses. Toy language construction no longer precedes practical programming; likewise, who outside 9fans would use a replica replacement? So why write one? Better to focus on what counts as Sussman did with Scheme/SICP which is instead offered to advanced students who better appreciate it (6.945). Plus, it's never been a committee. (Would Plan 9 seem less dead to you if others stopped working on it?) On 9/15/11, Bruce Ellis wrote: > just when the bunny was out of the bag ... > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEZbtpdckJA > > On 16 September 2011 06:17, Bakul Shah wrote: >> On Thu, 15 Sep 2011 12:56:54 PDT David Leimbach >> wrote: >>> > Christoph Lohmann wrote: >>> > >>> >> Hello, >>> >> >>> >> now that an academic non-polished Plan 9 remake with idiotic >>> >> dependencies and the fun OS, which has its only goal to add >>> >> political jokes, are taking all the pace, I hereby declare, >>> >> that Plan 9 is MORE ALIVE THAN EVER. >>> >> >>> >> Rest In Peace. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Sincerely, >>> >> >>> >> Christoph Lohmann >>> >> >>> >> >>> > FTFY >>> > >>> > Giving a new direction to plan 9 is, in a sense, a death. Death is the >>> gateway to a new beginning. >>> >>> Plan 9 is dead, long live Plan 9. >> >> Don't nix Plan9! Nix Plan9! >> >> > > > > -- > Don't meddle in the mouth -- MVS (0416935147, +1-513-3BRUCEE) > >
Re: [9fans] Plan 9 is dead
just when the bunny was out of the bag ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEZbtpdckJA On 16 September 2011 06:17, Bakul Shah wrote: > On Thu, 15 Sep 2011 12:56:54 PDT David Leimbach wrote: >> > Christoph Lohmann wrote: >> > >> >> Hello, >> >> >> >> now that an academic non-polished Plan 9 remake with idiotic >> >> dependencies and the fun OS, which has its only goal to add >> >> political jokes, are taking all the pace, I hereby declare, >> >> that Plan 9 is MORE ALIVE THAN EVER. >> >> >> >> Rest In Peace. >> >> >> >> >> >> Sincerely, >> >> >> >> Christoph Lohmann >> >> >> >> >> > FTFY >> > >> > Giving a new direction to plan 9 is, in a sense, a death. Death is the >> gateway to a new beginning. >> >> Plan 9 is dead, long live Plan 9. > > Don't nix Plan9! Nix Plan9! > > -- Don't meddle in the mouth -- MVS (0416935147, +1-513-3BRUCEE)
Re: [9fans] booting options for brand new installation [UPDATE]
On 09/15/2011 10:56 PM, Sasha and Tanya Kapshuk wrote:
On 09/15/2011 12:57 AM, Richard Miller wrote:
i want to boot plan9 using grub.
My /boot/grub/menu.lst includes these lines:
title Plan 9
root(hd0,1)
chainloader +1
and the corresponding partition has /386/pbslba as a boot block --
see format(8).
thanks for the tip, Richard, but i found that debian squeeze doesn't
have /boot/grub/menu.lst anymore.
i tried googling for instructions on how to add alternative systems to
grub2, but so far haven't found anything substantial;
the only thing i did try was i added this to /etc/grub.d/40_custom:
menuentry "Plan9 from Bell Labs" {
insmod chain
insmod fat16
set root=(hd0,1)
chainloader +1
}
then i ran update-grub as root and rebooted the system;
this time "Plan9 from Bell Labs" did appear in the grub menu; i
selected it and got an error: message: error: invalid signature
the right way of doing it isn't immediately obvious to me;
any input would be appreciated;
sasha kapshuk.
i found what the problem was...
my plan9 partition is /dev/sda3, so the following entry in the
/etc/grub.d/40_custom file should read:
menuentry "Plan9 from Bell Labs" {
insmod chain
insmod fat16
set root=(hd0,3) #not set root=(hd0,1)
chainloader +1
}
it should be followed by running update-grub and rebooting the system;
the instructions above are confirmed to have worked on my system;
Re: [9fans] Plan 9 is dead
On Thu, 15 Sep 2011 12:56:54 PDT David Leimbach wrote: > > Christoph Lohmann wrote: > > > >> Hello, > >> > >> now that an academic non-polished Plan 9 remake with idiotic > >> dependencies and the fun OS, which has its only goal to add > >> political jokes, are taking all the pace, I hereby declare, > >> that Plan 9 is MORE ALIVE THAN EVER. > >> > >> Rest In Peace. > >> > >> > >> Sincerely, > >> > >> Christoph Lohmann > >> > >> > > FTFY > > > > Giving a new direction to plan 9 is, in a sense, a death. Death is the > gateway to a new beginning. > > Plan 9 is dead, long live Plan 9. Don't nix Plan9! Nix Plan9!
Re: [9fans] Plan 9 is dead
On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 11:21 AM, Jack Norton wrote: > Christoph Lohmann wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> now that an academic non-polished Plan 9 remake with idiotic >> dependencies and the fun OS, which has its only goal to add >> political jokes, are taking all the pace, I hereby declare, >> that Plan 9 is MORE ALIVE THAN EVER. >> >> Rest In Peace. >> >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Christoph Lohmann >> >> > FTFY > > Giving a new direction to plan 9 is, in a sense, a death. Death is the gateway to a new beginning. Plan 9 is dead, long live Plan 9. Dave
Re: [9fans] booting options for brand new installation
On 09/15/2011 12:57 AM, Richard Miller wrote:
i want to boot plan9 using grub.
My /boot/grub/menu.lst includes these lines:
title Plan 9
root(hd0,1)
chainloader +1
and the corresponding partition has /386/pbslba as a boot block --
see format(8).
thanks for the tip, Richard, but i found that debian squeeze doesn't
have /boot/grub/menu.lst anymore.
i tried googling for instructions on how to add alternative systems to
grub2, but so far haven't found anything substantial;
the only thing i did try was i added this to /etc/grub.d/40_custom:
menuentry "Plan9 from Bell Labs" {
insmod chain
insmod fat16
set root=(hd0,1)
chainloader +1
}
then i ran update-grub as root and rebooted the system;
this time "Plan9 from Bell Labs" did appear in the grub menu; i selected
it and got an error: message: error: invalid signature
the right way of doing it isn't immediately obvious to me;
any input would be appreciated;
sasha kapshuk.
Re: [9fans] Plan 9 is dead
Christoph Lohmann wrote: Hello, now that an academic non-polished Plan 9 remake with idiotic dependencies and the fun OS, which has its only goal to add political jokes, are taking all the pace, I hereby declare, that Plan 9 is MORE ALIVE THAN EVER. Rest In Peace. Sincerely, Christoph Lohmann FTFY
Re: [9fans] Plan 9 is dead
It's feeling better... (I'm waiting for someone to start singing) Sent from my Android phone on T-Mobile. America’s first nationwide 4G network. - Reply message - From: "Digby Tarvin" To: "Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs" <9fans@9fans.net> Subject: [9fans] Plan 9 is dead Date: Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:42 On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 06:26:03PM +0200, cinap_len...@gmx.de wrote: > no, its just resting :-) > I'm just waiting for someone to comment on the beautiful plumage... :) DigbyT -- Digby R. S. Tarvin digbyt(at)digbyt.com http://www.digbyt.com
Re: [9fans] Plan 9 is dead
On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 06:26:03PM +0200, cinap_len...@gmx.de wrote: > no, its just resting :-) > I'm just waiting for someone to comment on the beautiful plumage... :) DigbyT -- Digby R. S. Tarvin digbyt(at)digbyt.com http://www.digbyt.com
Re: [9fans] another compile problem
Please report issues here: http://code.google.com/p/nix-os/issues/list thanks! ron
Re: [9fans] Plan 9 is dead
no, its just resting :-) -- cinap
Re: [9fans] Plan 9 is dead
excessive whimsy can be a little trying, but on a practical level, i expect code and ideas to continue to move both ways, in some sense.--- Begin Message --- Hello, now that an academic non-polished Plan 9 remake with idiotic dependencies and the fun OS, which has its only goal to add political jokes, are taking all the pace, I hereby declare, that Plan 9 is dead. Rest In Peace. Sincerely, Christoph Lohmann--- End Message ---
Re: [9fans] NIX 64-bit kernel is available
In the experiments I made I was sending all results through shared memory (a pointer to the reply). But I don't think that code is in the main rep. On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 4:13 PM, erik quanstrom wrote: > On Thu Sep 15 10:04:54 EDT 2011, n...@lsub.org wrote: >> I could run old binaries. Perhaps profiling no longer works for them, >> didn't even try. >> Either way, we had no choice. We had to put some stuff in there. > > i wasn't complaining. i just wanted to make sure. also, for the > nixcalls, where does the error string memory go? > > - erik > >
Re: [9fans] fossil deadlock
On Thu Sep 15 10:31:09 EDT 2011, eeke...@fastmail.fm wrote: > On Thu, 08 Sep 2011 13:48:23 +0100 r...@hemiola.co.uk wrote: > > > I can easily get fossil to deadlock. It would be great if anyone > > with fossil internals expertise could comment. > > > Every now and then someone studies fossil, having the belief that if > only it were understood it could be made to work properly. No-one has > succeeded in gaining "fossil internals expertise" yet, and the > filesystem is over 10 years old. i think that's an excellent summary of the issues. - erik
Re: [9fans] fossil deadlock
On Thu, 08 Sep 2011 13:48:23 +0100 r...@hemiola.co.uk wrote: > I can easily get fossil to deadlock. It would be great if anyone with > fossil internals expertise could comment. Every now and then someone studies fossil, having the belief that if only it were understood it could be made to work properly. No-one has succeeded in gaining "fossil internals expertise" yet, and the filesystem is over 10 years old.
Re: [9fans] booting
Not yet, if you're willing to be a test subject head over to nix-dev and we can work through the steps for you and add a document explaining the process. Noah On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 4:08 PM, Christian Neukirchen wrote: > quans...@quanstro.net (erik quanstrom) writes: > >> does 9load do enough to boot the nix 64-bit kernel? >> >> - erik > > And are there instructions for bootstrapping such a nix system? > It builds fine here now, but I have no idea how/what to put on disk to > make it boot. > > -- > Christian Neukirchen http://chneukirchen.org > >
Re: [9fans] booting
> > does 9load do enough to boot the nix 64-bit kernel? > And are there instructions for bootstrapping such a nix system? > It builds fine here now, but I have no idea how/what to put on disk to > make it boot. The PXE bootloader seems to be in /sys/src/nix/w/pxeload. -- David du Colombier
Re: [9fans] booting
No. Compile an npxeload from /sys/src/nix/w/pxeload. That should work. If it doesn't file an issue. Noah On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 3:27 PM, erik quanstrom wrote: > does 9load do enough to boot the nix 64-bit kernel? > > - erik > >
Re: [9fans] NIX 64-bit kernel is available
On Thu Sep 15 10:04:54 EDT 2011, n...@lsub.org wrote: > I could run old binaries. Perhaps profiling no longer works for them, > didn't even try. > Either way, we had no choice. We had to put some stuff in there. i wasn't complaining. i just wanted to make sure. also, for the nixcalls, where does the error string memory go? - erik
Re: [9fans] booting
quans...@quanstro.net (erik quanstrom) writes: > does 9load do enough to boot the nix 64-bit kernel? > > - erik And are there instructions for bootstrapping such a nix system? It builds fine here now, but I have no idea how/what to put on disk to make it boot. -- Christian Neukirchenhttp://chneukirchen.org
Re: [9fans] NIX 64-bit kernel is available
I could run old binaries. Perhaps profiling no longer works for them, didn't even try. Either way, we had no choice. We had to put some stuff in there.
[9fans] Plan 9 is dead
Hello, now that an academic non-polished Plan 9 remake with idiotic dependencies and the fun OS, which has its only goal to add political jokes, are taking all the pace, I hereby declare, that Plan 9 is dead. Rest In Peace. Sincerely, Christoph Lohmann
[9fans] booting
does 9load do enough to boot the nix 64-bit kernel? - erik
Re: [9fans] NIX 64-bit kernel is available
On Thu Sep 15 03:30:29 EDT 2011, nemo.m...@gmail.com wrote: > i was in the middle of a commit > try the release tag or give me one more hour. > > On Sep 15, 2011, at 6:39 AM, erik quanstrom wrote: > > > i'm having a bit of trouble compiling everything. > > > > chula; mk trap.6 > > 6c -FTVw trap.c > > trap.c:280 not a member of struct/union: core > > trap.c:281 not a member of struct/union: nixtype > > mk: 6c -FTVw trap.c : exit status=rc 25899: 6c 25901: error > > > > /sys/include/tos.h doesn't appear to match. isn't changing the size of tos going to break old executables? - erik
[9fans] iwp9 wip submission deadline
I just wanted to remind everyone that the iwp9's works in progress submission deadline (1 Oct) is approaching fast. Also, if anyone is interested in giving a Plan 9/inferno related tutorial please contact us at iwp9trou...@lsub.org.
Re: [9fans] NIX 64-bit kernel is available
noah.ev...@gmail.com (Noah Evans) writes: > don't forget to hg add amd64/bin/auth/.shutuphg > > Noah Works, and submitted. (After I "fixed" codereview for mercurial 1.9 :P) -- Christian Neukirchenhttp://chneukirchen.org
Re: [9fans] NIX 64-bit kernel is available
don't forget to hg add amd64/bin/auth/.shutuphg Noah On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 1:07 PM, Noah Evans wrote: > mkdir /amd64/bin/auth > touch /amd64/bin/auth/.shutuphg > > will let you build factotum and friends. > > Then from your normal shell and your nix directory(I assume you have > your .hg/hgrc ready for codereview, if not look at /PROCESS): > > hg change > > hg mail > > I'd do it myself, but I have some speculative changes I don't want to > introduce to the main tree yet. > > Noah > > > > On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 12:50 PM, Christian Neukirchen > wrote: >> n...@lsub.org (Francisco J Ballesteros) writes: >> >>> cd /sys/src >>> objtype=amd64 >>> mk install >> >> ... >> mk factotum >> for (i in factotum fgui) >> mk $MKFLAGS $i.install >> cp 6.factotum /amd64/bin/auth/factotum >> cp: can't create /amd64/bin/auth/factotum: '/amd64/bin/auth' does not exist >> mk: cp 6.factotum /amd64/bin/auth/factotum : exit status=rc 2064: cp 2066: >> errors >> mk: for (i in ... : exit status=rc 2061: mk 2063: error >> mk: for (i in ... : exit status=rc 2048: rc 2057: mk 2060: error >> mk: for(i in 1a ... : exit status=rc 1815: rc 2041: mk 2044: error >> mk: test -e 8._cp ... : exit status=rc 1782: mk 1803: error >> mk: date for (i ... : exit status=rc 178: rc 1767: mk 1770: error >> >> Ideas? >> >> >> PS: whoa nice, 9vx shares the snarf buffer. >> -- >> Christian Neukirchen http://chneukirchen.org >> >> >
Re: [9fans] NIX 64-bit kernel is available
mkdir /amd64/bin/auth touch /amd64/bin/auth/.shutuphg will let you build factotum and friends. Then from your normal shell and your nix directory(I assume you have your .hg/hgrc ready for codereview, if not look at /PROCESS): hg change hg mail I'd do it myself, but I have some speculative changes I don't want to introduce to the main tree yet. Noah On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 12:50 PM, Christian Neukirchen wrote: > n...@lsub.org (Francisco J Ballesteros) writes: > >> cd /sys/src >> objtype=amd64 >> mk install > > ... > mk factotum > for (i in factotum fgui) > mk $MKFLAGS $i.install > cp 6.factotum /amd64/bin/auth/factotum > cp: can't create /amd64/bin/auth/factotum: '/amd64/bin/auth' does not exist > mk: cp 6.factotum /amd64/bin/auth/factotum : exit status=rc 2064: cp 2066: > errors > mk: for (i in ... : exit status=rc 2061: mk 2063: error > mk: for (i in ... : exit status=rc 2048: rc 2057: mk 2060: error > mk: for(i in 1a ... : exit status=rc 1815: rc 2041: mk 2044: error > mk: test -e 8._cp ... : exit status=rc 1782: mk 1803: error > mk: date for (i ... : exit status=rc 178: rc 1767: mk 1770: error > > Ideas? > > > PS: whoa nice, 9vx shares the snarf buffer. > -- > Christian Neukirchen http://chneukirchen.org > >
Re: [9fans] NIX 64-bit kernel is available
n...@lsub.org (Francisco J Ballesteros) writes: > cd /sys/src > objtype=amd64 > mk install ... mk factotum for (i in factotum fgui) mk $MKFLAGS $i.install cp 6.factotum /amd64/bin/auth/factotum cp: can't create /amd64/bin/auth/factotum: '/amd64/bin/auth' does not exist mk: cp 6.factotum /amd64/bin/auth/factotum : exit status=rc 2064: cp 2066: errors mk: for (i in ... : exit status=rc 2061: mk 2063: error mk: for (i in ... : exit status=rc 2048: rc 2057: mk 2060: error mk: for(i in 1a ... : exit status=rc 1815: rc 2041: mk 2044: error mk: test -e 8._cp ... : exit status=rc 1782: mk 1803: error mk: date for (i ... : exit status=rc 178: rc 1767: mk 1770: error Ideas? PS: whoa nice, 9vx shares the snarf buffer. -- Christian Neukirchenhttp://chneukirchen.org
Re: [9fans] booting options for brand new installation
thanks a lot. i'll give that a try. On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 12:57 AM, Richard Miller <9f...@hamnavoe.com> wrote: > > i want to boot plan9 using grub. > > My /boot/grub/menu.lst includes these lines: > > title Plan 9 > root(hd0,1) > chainloader +1 > > and the corresponding partition has /386/pbslba as a boot block -- > see format(8). > > > >
Re: [9fans] NIX 64-bit kernel is available
Let's make a deal. Anyone who writes something can give it a name. :)
Re: [9fans] NIX 64-bit kernel is available
Just one thought: call it "Nicht OS".
Re: [9fans] NIX 64-bit kernel is available
Perhaps you checked out an old version? I just checked and there's a $nixroot/BUILDING_AMD64 file, provided you did the check out at $nixroot. This is what the file has: cd /sys/src objtype=386 mk libs cd ape/lib mk install cd /sys/src objtype=amd64 mk install BTW, for building the nix kernel just go to /sys/src/nix and mk. It will require amd64 binaries and libraries at /amd64. hth
Re: [9fans] NIX 64-bit kernel is available
rminn...@gmail.com (ron minnich) writes: > You'll need a 9vx setup to start. > Checkout the tree, and run 9vx with the tree as your root. You'll find a file > called BUILDING_AMD64 with further instructions in the root. Just for the record, one needs the 9vx from https://bitbucket.org/rminnich/vx32 The binaries from http://swtch.com/9vx/ don't work. And that file BUILDING_AMD64 I couldn't find anywhere. -- Christian Neukirchenhttp://chneukirchen.org
Re: [9fans] hg on plan 9
On Thursday 15 of September 2011 05:58:00 erik quanstrom wrote: > looks like spaces in file names are a problem, at least > on my system. > > minooka; hg clone https://code.google.com/p/nix-os/ > destination directory: nix-os > requesting all changes > adding changesets > adding manifests > adding file changes > transaction abort! > rollback completed > abort: Bad file number: > /n/other/quanstro/nix-os/.hg/store/data/lib/font/bit/anonpro/_anonymous > _pro.ttf.i there used to be a hack in Hg to safely store files with spaces (and other potentially unsafe characters) in names, called `fncache repository format'. http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/fncacheRepoFormat seems you can toggle it on/off in config. -- dexen deVries [[[↓][→]]] For example, if the first thing in the file is: an XML parser will recognize that the document is stored in the traditional ROT13 encoding. (( Joe English, http://www.flightlab.com/~joe/sgml/faq-not.txt ))
Re: [9fans] NIX 64-bit kernel is available
Ok. If you check out the release tag from nix-os.googlecode.com it should be ok and compile and work fine. I just checked. We are sorry we didn't tell before. >From now on we'll tag as "release" the last release we are happy with. hth
Re: [9fans] Nemo book
On Thursday 15 of September 2011 00:54:11 John Floren wrote: > (...) > I think you have seriously misapprehended many things about Plan 9. > We don't have X. We are not Linux compatible, although there's a > rather decent Linux emulator. There is no GTK, no Qt, no Firefox, no > modern C++ compiler. > > I think it's time for people to stop telling the "Plan 9 community" > what its goals should be, when these people haven't even booted Plan > 9. I'm one of the `never even booted Plan 9' folks, and I agree with John 100%. Let Plan 9 do things the Plan 9 way, for better or worse. And let the real needs influence what gets implemented first and what later on. If there's pressing need for /native/ full-blown browser, some of the likes of Abaco will be improved to that point. If Plan 9 tries hard to emulate Linux first and innovate second, it'll become stagnant and irrelevant. -- dexen deVries [[[↓][→]]] For example, if the first thing in the file is: an XML parser will recognize that the document is stored in the traditional ROT13 encoding. (( Joe English, http://www.flightlab.com/~joe/sgml/faq-not.txt ))
Re: [9fans] NIX 64-bit kernel is available
i was in the middle of a commit try the release tag or give me one more hour. On Sep 15, 2011, at 6:39 AM, erik quanstrom wrote: > i'm having a bit of trouble compiling everything. > > chula; mk trap.6 > 6c -FTVw trap.c > trap.c:280 not a member of struct/union: core > trap.c:281 not a member of struct/union: nixtype > mk: 6c -FTVw trap.c : exit status=rc 25899: 6c 25901: error > > /sys/include/tos.h doesn't appear to match. > > - erik >
