Re: [9fans] html5 canvas, go, devdraw
You'd be wrong. I'm just playing :) But thanks for the compliment. On Sep 7, 2013, at 5:54 PM, lu...@proxima.alt.za wrote: Just wondering, anyone playing with such a beast? I bet you're streets ahead of anyone else on this one! ++L
Re: [9fans] Closed nix development is an insult
On Sep 7, 2013, at 1:35 AM, Aram Hăvărneanu ara...@mgk.ro wrote: I believe the rules are different when the work is research, sponsored by public money. People are getting research grants to work on nix. Just for the record, we got not a single cent for nix. As far as lsub is concerned, it's been a free time effort. So, I don't know what you are complainting about.
Re: [9fans] How useful is a scroll wheel?
On Jul 8, 2013, at 12:09 PM, Devon H. O'Dell devon.od...@gmail.com wrote: Although I spend a large part of my time on a Mac laptop, I'm a little puzzled at how or why one would use two hands with the trackpad doohickey. I use one pad|mouse combined with Fn keys defined as mouse buttons (with chording). This works only on Plan 9, not on plan9ports, but, I found it very very convenient. I usually end up with one hand in the mouse plus the left hand on Fns, when not in typing mode. I guess, regarding usability, that using an external pad could be as convenient.
Re: [9fans] 9n
It's a modified stock kernel, no need to ask because I made the changes directly there. ;) Now seriously..., no plan 9 secret society has ever been actually secret and hiding code, as far as I know, that is. The only times I saw someone was keeping code without publishing it was because the code was not considered to be ready enough for others to try. Don't know if I should add more :)s, well... hth On Jun 17, 2013, at 6:29 PM, Jiten Pathy jpa...@mail.nanosouffle.net wrote: I am just wondering, does the new Plan9 secret society approve of the release of code ? On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 11:19 PM, Francisco J Ballesteros n...@lsub.org wrote: On Jun 6, 2013, at 7:40 PM, Francisco J Ballesteros n...@lsub.org wrote: concat us Since concat'ing us may be disgusting, I should have written contact us. sorry.
Re: [9fans] 9n
You should ask if anyone else did that before doing it, instead of saying they are un-spined life forms. Don't you have a tricorder? On Jun 17, 2013, at 8:40 PM, Kurt H Maier kh...@intma.in wrote: It is annoying to have to replicate work someone else has done merely because they lack the spine to release it.
Re: [9fans] is lsub web server up?
Should be ok now. Try and drop me a line off list if you have problems. We had some problems with one of the machines, sorry. On Jun 9, 2013, at 8:51 AM, arn...@skeeve.com wrote: Hi. I tried to get the 9pix paper but am getting connection refused sorts of errors from http://lsub.org. Thanks, Arnold
Re: [9fans] Go for systems programming
If you remove the features that make go interesting you'd get C without punctuation symbols.
Re: [9fans] International Ispell in Plan9
you could put it in sources, if not yet there.
Re: [9fans] Unintuitive mount behavior
On Apr 9, 2013, at 10:56 PM, a...@9srv.net wrote: This came up in #plan9, and I reduced it to this example: :; mkdir cat dog pig :; echo meow cat/tabby :; echo woof dog/mutt :; bind cat pig When you reach pig, you now jump to cat. :; bind dog/mutt pig/tabby You resolve pig/tabby before the bind, which means cat/tabbly because of the bind :; cat cat/tabby woof And there your are. That's unless I'm too sleepy, of course. I had problems with mount tables because I came from unix. Here they are just jump here to there, but it's hard to assume, at least to me, because it's too simple for what I'd expect, perhaps.
Re: [9fans] gcc not an option for Plan9
I'll try to say it in a different way. I asked Siri and (s)he said (s)he does not consume many resources. Now, that's nice. I'm willing to give up the machine resources for that, or for dialling by voice on my car. *But*, I'm not sure that to print Hi there I need a few megs, nor am I sure that to install a and compile a few sources I need to see hundreds of stats/reads; The funny thing is that the compilers seem to be really fast, but the go tool fixes that problem. Fortunately, a few mkfiles fix the go tool problems. Also, doing a cp /bin/echo /bin/hg improves things a bit. This is just IMHO, the language is nice as are parts of the runtime. I'm glad go is out there. On Mar 23, 2013, at 6:44 PM, hiro 23h...@gmail.com wrote: On 3/23/13, Francisco J Ballesteros n...@lsub.org wrote: Although, in general, I agree. Are you surprised that you do?
Re: [9fans] two questions about go in Plan 9
not really. in some cases a server I have wants to close the con to a client and there's a reader proc. I would like to hang up even if the client doesn't. On Feb 18, 2013, at 5:54 PM, lu...@proxima.alt.za wrote: What do you do in that case? Or, more likely, what am I doing wrong? You're trying to signal in-band, which is only a short cut. Would it be expensive to put the signalling out of band? ++L [/mail/box/nemo/msgs/201302/889]
Re: [9fans] two questions about go in Plan 9
yes. that was the problem. perhaps exporting hangup would be fine. or perhaps a close in a tcp stream should also interrupt the reader in plan9, if any. thanks On Feb 18, 2013, at 7:58 PM, aku...@mail.nanosouffle.net wrote: In order to deal with Conn types, you're supposed to just use the interface's functions. Unfortunately, Conn's Close() simply closes the associated fd. I think in general, this is fine. For the Listener, a Close() will do the hangup. I'm updating the net package implementation for Plan 9, so new ideas are welcome in this phase. We can try to export a Hangup() function for Plan 9 for the Conn type (or for individual implementations of the type). On 18 February 2013 10:12, Francisco J Ballesteros n...@lsub.org wrote: I know, but, what's the std way to do that in go in plan 9? On Feb 18, 2013, at 7:07 PM, cinap_len...@gmx.de wrote: network connections on plan9 can be hanged up by writing hangup into the corresponding ctl file. -- cinap [/mail/box/nemo/msgs/201302/897] [/mail/box/nemo/msgs/201302/902]
Re: [9fans] Spanish hyphenation in troff
Yes, it was a hack I made, but a hack anyway. In most cases it worked fine, but it's not a real fix, so I didn't say anything in this thread. On Jan 18, 2013, at 4:17 PM, Gorka Guardiola pau...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 3:14 PM, trebol trebol55...@yahoo.es wrote: Thanks Gorka, but I've tried that with ftp.ctan.org/pub/tex/language/hyphenation/eshyph.tex and all I've is: assertion failed: file n8.c:543 I'm new to plan9, so I'm a little lost. Sorry if this is an obvious/common task. trebol. Looking at the version on our tree, there was a fix for this, but to me it seems wrong. The function trieindex (and maybe the whole implementation of hyphenation) looks ascii-centric and most probably needs reimplementation. I may be wrong, though, as I am unfamiliar with the code. G.
Re: [9fans] file server design documentation
IIRC, I think I wrote something about that in the 9.intro book. But it's likely you already know all that's written there and you want more details… On Dec 21, 2012, at 7:23 PM, steve st...@quintile.net wrote: hi, I writing another non-disc file server after a gap of a few years and am making mistakes. is there a written spec of how its supposed to work? For example: the initial stat of a zero length name should return the Dir of the root dir. and a walk up to the root directory tells mount driver that you want to pass control back to the parent filesystem. -Steve
Re: [9fans] c++
Halo 4 On Nov 22, 2012, at 11:07 AM, lu...@proxima.alt.za wrote: What is so special a COBOL programmer can't do?
Re: [9fans] c++
it's an Xbox game. and yes, you need it ;) On Nov 22, 2012, at 4:37 PM, lu...@proxima.alt.za wrote: Halo 4 Whatever it is, I haven't needed it in the past 38 years, should I have? ++L
Re: [9fans] tabstops
or a script that does everything for you. you edit at one tree and Rin the script which copies to another replaces and submits. On Nov 16, 2012, at 12:37 PM, dexen deVries dexen.devr...@gmail.com wrote: On Friday 16 of November 2012 11:12:38 Steve Simon wrote: I am working on a project that insists on 4 space indentation of code. I can change the tabstop environment variable so I layout the code how they want but I am still inderting tabs into my source. I can use russ's tab(1) to convert the tabs to whitespace before every checkin, but thats a bit painful. create tabfs, a stacking FS? convert leading tabs to spaces on write(3), convert leading quartets of spaces to tabs on read(3). IIRC there was already some stacking FS doing somet ranslation, perhaps it was CRLF -LF -- dexen deVries [[[↓][→]]] Reality is just a convenient measure of complexity. -- Alvy Ray Smith
Re: [9fans] off-topic: why linux lost the desktop
that's what I thought. :) On Oct 18, 2012, at 2:10 PM, Oleksandr Iakovliev yshu...@lynxline.com wrote: On 2012-10-18 11:03 , Balwinder S Dheeman wrote: On 10/18/2012 01:35 AM, Christoph Lohmann wrote: Greetings comrades. On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 22:05:08 +0200 Aharon Robbins arn...@skeeve.com wrote: This says a lot, rather nicely: http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2012/Aug-29.html Having lived through the Unix wars of the 80s and 90s, it's the same story all over again. The question is rather: What killed the Plan 9 desktop? 1) Lack of modern GUI and GUI development kit 2) Lack of Object Oriented GUI configuration tools 3) Lack of a decent web0browser 4) Lack of a decent communication/messaging client 5) Lack of an Office Applications suite ... ... ... z) Last, but not the least, hate towards C++ and love for the Go But that's the list of benefits, isn't? :)
[9fans] Fwd: Initial call for participation 7th International Plan 9 Workshop, Dublin, Ireland, November 14-16, 2012
[I'm sending this on behalf of Eric Jul. Thus, the From is wrong :). ] Dear Inferno/Plan 9 fans. Attached is the initial call for participation for the 7th International Plan 9 Workshop, Dublin, Ireland, November 14-16, 2012. Please note that the workshop this time takes place in November and that we are hoping for some good demos besides the usual program. We have also planned a good social program in Dublin. Sincerely, Eric Jul Title: 7th International Workshop on Plan 9 Initial Call for Participation7th International Workshop on Plan 9 November 14 16, 2011 Bell Labs Ireland Alcatel-Lucent Blanchardstown Business and Technology Park Snugborough Road, Blanchardstown Dublin 15, Republic of Ireland Important Dates - Paper Submission - Program - WIP Submission - Registration - Location Travel - Accommodation - Posters Purpose The workshop aims to bring together researchers, developers and students working on Plan 9 from Bell Labs or related systems, platforms, and projects, to discuss a wide range of system and application ideas and issues. Previous issues: 1st IWP9 (2006), Rey Juan Carlos University, Madrid, Spain; 2nd IWP9 (2007), Bell Labs, NJ, United States; 3rd IWP9 (2008), University of Thessaly, Volos, Greece; 4th IWP9 (2009), University of Georgia, Athens, GA, United States; 5th IWP9 (2010), Seattle, WA, United States; 6th IWP9 (2011), Universidad Rey Juan Carlos, Fuenlabrada, Madrid, Spain. Important Dates Oct 15: Paper submission deadline Oct 24: Paper acceptance notification Oct 25: Works in progress and demos submission deadline (may be subject to change) Nov 1: WIP/Demos acceptance notification (may be subject to change) Nov 5: Registration deadline (may be subject to change) Nov 6: Camera ready version (may be subject to change) Nov 14-16: Workshop in Dublin Paper Submission (preliminary instructions subject to minor changes) Papers of up to 15 pages must be sent to iwp9papers at ericjul.dk in PDF or PS format. The call for papers is not here yet. Please do not forget to include the e-mail address of the contact author. Submissions will be acknowledged via e-mail (please allow for a small delay). Papers must be visually similar to Plan 9 papers that can be found at /sys/doc/9/ in order to compile a homogeneous proceedings book. See for example this paper. These macros and this mkfile can be used to duplicate this look. Please keep this look and feel, use the same fonts and do not include page numbers. For accepted papers, besides the PDF/PS file, it would be nice, if authors could provide a LaTeX (or troff) source as to facilitate the compilation of the proceedings printable version. This is not mandatory. In the worst case, page numbers and a toc will be added by hand. You might, however, have to compensate for this at an Irish pub. The workshop proceedings will be published in electronic form. We are also considering the edition of a printed version with ISBN, to be distributed during the workshop. Preliminary Schedule for Program June 14th: 14:00 Registration (and coffee) 16:00 Welcome + keynote 17:00 Demos 19:00 Intro to Irish pub + pub dinner 22:00 Live Irish Session music at music pub June 15th 09:30 panel: news from new systems: osprey, inferno-ports, and nix 11:00 talks 12:00 Lunch at nearby Market (bring coat in case of rain) 14:00 talks/demos 18:00 Irish Microbrew 20:00 Dinner at restaurant (TBD) June 15th 9:30talks 13:00 lunch at Bell Labs 14:00 talks 15:30 concluding remarks Demos Submission We solicit interesting demos. Send a description, include a time limit for your demo. WIP Submission WIP of up to 3 pages must be set to iwp9wip at ericjul.dk in PDF or PS format. Please do not forget to include the e-mail address of the contact author. Submissions will be acknowledged via e-mail (please allow for a small delay). Formatting requirements are the same as for papers. Program and Proceedings Printed copies of the proceedings will be provided to all participants and authors. An electronic copy will be made available. Registration The registration deadline is Oct 10th, 2011. To register, please send an e-mail to iwp9reg at lsub.org with your name, affiliation and e-mail address, one per line. Location Travel Location Travel Bell Labs Ireland is located in Alcatel-Lucents building in the Blanchardstown Business and Technology Park approximately 12 km from the center of Dublin and approximately 15 km from the Dublin airport. The schedule is so that you may arrive at the Dublin airport by 2-3pm on Wednesday and fly out on Friday afternoon on flights departing at 6pm or later. How to get there from the airport (full details later): >From the Dublin airport, Bell
Re: [9fans] Showing an image on an o/live window
native there means in the host os of the pc and the namespace you had there. On May 22, 2012, at 2:29 PM, kokam...@hera.eonet.ne.jp wrote: I issued the ';page' command from 9front terminal, where ';' indicates the native OS's command. What is 'native' here? This may also be from the different version of inferno, too. The $OCTOPUS/usr/octopus/port/lib/os.b file shows the line of system(xctx, cmd); and the cmd= os -d dir rc -c cmd here. According to my inferno man page, os command of the inferno sh has -m mountpoint option, which we dont't use. If that option is not used, the defdault is at /cmd directory which would be linked to _local_ bin... Too much complicated to me for now. Kenji
Re: [9fans] Showing an image on an o/live window
On May 19, 2012, at 6:53 AM, kokam...@hera.eonet.ne.jp wrote: (1) !mkdir /mnt/ui/appl/image:logo (2) !cp /usr/okamoto/octopus.img /mnt/ui/appl/image:logo/data (3) !echo copyto /main/row:stats /mnt/ui/appl/image:logo/ctl 1 and 2 create the widget and update it. but it's not shown anywhere. 3 links that widget to a tree shown by the main screen. Apps can create their hierarchies and then decide which widgets to replicate and where (to show them). did the command ;page octopus.img on the directory panel of /usr/okamoto on the terminal. I got the octopus image on my PC (octopus server) side, but not the terminal side. because you are not expected to use the PC for graphics. You asked the PC to run page and it did that. Note that the rio you are likely to run on the PC is not part of the octopus. hth
Re: [9fans] Reading gmail
let me! let me! -- iphone kbd. excuse typos :) On May 19, 2012, at 11:06 PM, Charles Forsyth charles.fors...@gmail.com wrote: Oh my whiskers! Oh my paws! Can't we make this stop? I suppose you'll now start posting incomplete things with the frail excuse that you haven't got a keyboard and posted from my ipad. On 19 May 2012 21:54, Steve Simon st...@quintile.net wrote: though I have recently bought an ipad
[9fans] The creepy WORM. (was: Re: Thinkpad T61 Installation Experience)
Because I noticed Ken's worm fs was being discussed in this thread, I thought I might just drop here the man page for a new alternate file server that we wrote for nix. It's not yet ready for use (I'm using it, but it's still under testing, and the version in the main nix tree is now out of date, btw; will send the new one soon). But I thought it might be of interest to 9fans, if only to get comments. CREEPY(4) CREEPY(4) NAME 9pix, fmt, rip, arch - creepy file server and WORM archive SYNOPSIS creepy/9pix [ -DFLAGS ] [ -ra ] [ -A addr ] [ -S srv ] disk creepy/fmt [ -DFLAGS ] [ -wy ] disk creepy/rip [ -DFLAGS ] [ -a ] [ -c n ] [ -A addr ] [ -S srv ] disk creepy/arch [ -DFLAGS ] [ dir ] DESCRIPTION Creepy is a prototype file server for Nix. It maintains a mutable file tree with unix semantics, kept in main memory, served through 9P, see intro(5), and through IX. Creepy/9pix is the main file server program. It serves a file tree through 9P and IX. The tree kept in memory is mutable. But frozen versions of the tree are written to disk, both upon request and also on a periodic basis, to survive power outages and other problems, and to be able to operate on trees that do not fit on main memory. The tree(s) stored on disk are frozen and cannot be changed once written. By default the program listens for 9P in the standard TCP port and posts a connection that can be mounted at /srv/9pix. Flags -A and -S may be used to specify an alter- nate network address and/or srv(3) file to post. Using these flags makes the program not to listen and not to post to srv(3) unless a flag indicates so. Flag -r makes the pro- gram operate in read-only mode, and flag -a starts the pro- gram without requiring authentication to mount the file tree. The disk is organized as a log of blocks. When a new version of the tree must be written to disk, all blocks that changed are given disk addresses and are appended to the log. Once written, they are frozen. If new changes are made to the tree, blocks are melted and forget their previous addresses: each time they are written again, they are assigned new ones. When the disk gets full, all reachable blocks are marked and all other blocks are considered available for growing the log (this is a description of semantics, not of the imple- mentation). Thus, the log is circular but jumps to the next available block each time it grows. If, after the mark pro- cess, the disk is still full, the file system becomes read only but for removing files. Before using a disk it must be formatted using creepy/fmt. This initializes blocks used to store marks for the mark and sweep process and also initializes a super block and an empty root directory. Flag -y forces the format even if the disk seems to contain a fossil (4) or creepy (4) partition. Flag -w is used to format the partition for a WORM (described later) and not for a main file tree. Creepy/rip is the same file server program, but operates in WORM mode. In this case, no mark and sweep for free blocks will ever happen. Blocks are consumed from the disk until it becomes full. The file tree served is always read-only. Operating the WORM to in administrative mode to add more trees or new versions of the archived trees does not require any protocol: it can be done using the standard file inter- face used to operate on any other tree, by mounting and changing it. An alternate mount specifier, wormwr, can be used to mount the tree in read-write mode, to update the archive. Updat- ing the archive is performed by creating new trees with the conventional /treename/year/mmdd paths on the WORM. But note that such paths are not enforced by the program at all. Before updating a tree in the archive, for a new day, a con- trol request described later can be used to link the direc- tory for the previous version of the archive to the new one. After that, changes made to files would in effect copy on write all blocks affected, and refer to old ones when they did not change. Creepy/arch is a program started by creepy/9pix to archive snapshots of the tree into a directory provided by creepy/rip (or by any other file server). The program is not expected to be run by users, and
Re: [9fans] Octopus viewer?
for portability. -- iphone kbd. excuse typos :) On May 11, 2012, at 3:50 AM, kokam...@hera.eonet.ne.jp wrote: Sorry I couldn't be of more help. Don't worry about that. It was your several years ago works, and you are doing another work now. I'll walking around it for a more, because it is very difficult to understand why it works. Conceptually, yes, it looks beautifull and easy to understand. My problem is to understand what is inferno anyway... You chose Inferno to build octopus on it, why? etc. Kenji
Re: [9fans] Question about o/mero - o/live event notification mechanism
On May 2, 2012, at 3:56 PM, aram wrote: % cat olive I receive nothing, whereas by executing Because IIRC that file is used to speak a protocol. That is, unless you issue certain requests on that file, o/mero wont reply. That's used to synchronize all o/lives so that they all perform very much like in cooperative editing environments. The ctls you saw in the comment are the protocol (merop).
Re: [9fans] Question about o/mero - o/live event notification mechanism
On Apr 30, 2012, at 11:54 PM, aram wrote: Hi, i explore the UI of octopus and i try to understand how omero notifies the viewers for events. It is apparent from the documentation that the viewers read events from the ui/olive file. However, when i cat that file from the shell and play with a terminal a bit, i get no data. The terminals are updated correctly which indicates that the events are delivered. I checked the source of olive (port/live/live.b) and it simply reads (by calling updateproc(fd)) the file as expected. Obviously i am missing something important that the documentation does not cover. How can i read events posted by omero? Thanks There are two type of events. IIRC. User events like open, exec, ... are posted via o/ports, and you can read them from there. UI events are sent through a file with a protocol for o/live. (Time ago they were sent also through ports, but I think I changed that). The viewer reads a tree and then gets updates from that file. That's internal and I don't think the man page describes that. I can take a look to the source so I remember if you don't have luck with these hints. hth
Re: [9fans] Octopus viewer?
/mnt/view is used for that. open in olive will use it when in a terminal. -- iphone kbd. excuse typos :) On Apr 30, 2012, at 3:19 AM, kokam...@hera.eonet.ne.jp wrote: On Apr 28, 2012, at 10:23 AM, kokam...@hera.eonet.ne.jp wrote: Why Inferno shows 's', and olive does 'M'? Kenji olive is using the namespace where o/x runs, so it's not directly the underlying name space, but it's re-exported. I think that's why. I checked the inferno source of plumber.b, and found it's from emu's source of devsrv.c. In the function of srv2c() in the file, it shows error of directory not a srv device which I met, if the /chan directory is mounted directory. This indicates plumber on octopus will not work if it comes from the PC, will it? Kenji
Re: [9fans] Octopus viewer?
On Apr 28, 2012, at 10:23 AM, kokam...@hera.eonet.ne.jp wrote: Why Inferno shows 's', and olive does 'M'? Kenji olive is using the namespace where o/x runs, so it's not directly the underlying name space, but it's re-exported. I think that's why.
Re: [9fans] AMD64 system
nix does not have graphics yet. sorry. we are using a changed 9pxeload and are switching to the new 9boot. the loader can be found in the distrib. if you can't wait. -- iphone kbd. excuse typos :) On Apr 25, 2012, at 4:17 PM, Strake strake...@gmail.com wrote: Hello all. I just lately installed Plan 9, but the stock system is built for 32-bit x86, and I have an amd64 computer. I found this diff: http://9legacy.org/9legacy/patch/nix.diff which seems to have all needed system libraries, and its own kernel, but the kernel seems to lack basic functionality, such as graphics and mouse, and I can't find the local bootloader for it — the stock bootloader chokes with message bad kernel format, and on the nix web site it says only to build pxe bootloader, which is not what I need. It seems that nix is meant for cpu servers, not terminals. I need, if my ken of 9jargon is not wrong, a terminal kernel. In an earlier thread, 9vx instability, F. J. Ballesteros said this: Jim, Charles, and others made an excellent port for amd64 ... We used that as a starting point for nix. Is this the legendary amd64 port? Is it available? I feel a bit lost. In the documentation, the authours emphasize its portability, yet to actually build for another architecture seems quite a bother, regrettably, since I was quite enthusiastic to use it as my primary system. Anyhow, I would be glad of any pointers to an amd64 port or instructions to do same. Cheers, strake
Re: [9fans] AMD64 system
No. But sofware capable of using nix services is. As you can see by looking at my signature in the previous mail. Enjoy. On Apr 25, 2012, at 4:31 PM, Christoph Lohmann wrote: Greetings. On Wed, 25 Apr 2012 16:31:42 +0200 Nemo n...@lsub.org wrote: iphone kbd. excuse typos :) Nix is running on iPhones? Sincerely, Christoph Lohmann
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
ah, if you said just to leverage a native kit, yes, that was the plan I had. but abstracting it. -- iphone kbd. excuse typos :) On Apr 18, 2012, at 6:09 PM, arn...@skeeve.com wrote: Is it exported as files? I thought I knew Qt, but, if it provides a file interface, I missed that. No - but I would suggest building on Qt, to let it handle all the interface to the native graphics, and you provide the file service / translation over it. I think that would be challenging and interesting, and also save you an *enormous* amount of work in having to write the same set of GUI interfaces three times (X11, windows, Mac OS). In other words, the GUI part is already a laregly solved problem; build upon it instead of reinventing it. Just an idea. :-) Arnold
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
I have in the todo yet another ui system to run on top of other systems. for terminals. -- iphone kbd. excuse typos :) On Apr 17, 2012, at 4:16 AM, kokam...@hera.eonet.ne.jp wrote: http://lsub.org/ls/nix.html yeah, now I can browse individual files now, When I tried two days ago, onlt directories can be browsed. Yes, I downloaded nix.tgz, and running it on my Ubuntu 11.10. I'm also running 9front here, of course, Plan 9 itself which I'm now writing this mail. I retired the univ this March, and have time now. I'm looking into codes of Plan 9 for my fun. I'm looking many to find out which is most interesting to make me most fun. Then, I have a question to all working for OS developement. Developping device drivers, such as 3D mode of nvidia card etc., is very difficult now, because there is no documents abailable. However, if we try to develope OS, we have to meet this difficulty. How you are trying to solve this? Kenji
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
Funny, the plan I mentioned about the new window system was also to provide inferno to some modern UI, retaining a simple programmatic interface. Since I don't have even a single line of code for this, I didn't say. But I'm glad to see you did :) On Apr 17, 2012, at 8:56 PM, Charles Forsyth wrote: I was thinking along the lines of http://lsub.org/ls/octopus.html, myself, using a child of Inferno.
Re: [9fans] test
got it clear. -- iphone kbd. excuse typos :) On Apr 16, 2012, at 6:46 PM, cinap_len...@gmx.de wrote: can't receive mail from 9fans anymore. but can i still send? -- cinap
[9fans] nix at lsub
Hi, just FYI, http://lsub.org/ls/nix.html has links and pointers for anyone to get the distribution and updates and/or send changes. hth
Re: [9fans] fossil riddle
I've seen that when the directory is ok but the file is not, fossil cannot get to the data file although it can obtain the metadata for the file. In fact, we still have a few files named bug which came from mv a-file-in-such-shape to bug Is that the case? On Mar 27, 2012, at 6:38 PM, Richard Miller wrote: Who can guess what's happening here: term% ls -ld src d-rwxrwxr-x M 353 miller miller 0 Mar 27 17:15 src term% ls -l src d-rwxrwxr-x M 353 miller miller 0 Mar 27 09:31 src/9 d-rwxrwxr-x M 353 miller miller 0 Mar 27 09:31 src/ape d-rwxrwxr-x M 353 miller miller 0 Mar 27 09:31 src/boot d-rwxrwxr-x M 353 miller miller 0 Mar 27 09:31 src/cmd d-rwxrwxr-x M 353 miller miller 0 Mar 27 09:31 src/games d-rwxrwxr-x M 353 miller miller 0 Mar 27 09:31 src/lib9p d-rwxrwxr-x M 353 miller miller 0 Mar 27 09:31 src/libString d-rwxrwxr-x M 353 miller miller 0 Mar 27 09:31 src/libauth d-rwxrwxr-x M 353 miller miller 0 Mar 27 09:31 src/libauthsrv d-rwxrwxr-x M 353 miller miller 0 Mar 27 09:31 src/libavl d-rwxrwxr-x M 353 miller miller 0 Mar 27 09:31 src/libbin d-rwxrwxr-x M 353 miller miller 0 Mar 27 09:31 src/libbio term% ls -l src/* ls: src/9: 'src/9' does not exist ls: src/ape: 'src/ape' does not exist ls: src/boot: 'src/boot' does not exist ls: src/cmd: 'src/cmd' does not exist ls: src/games: 'src/games' does not exist ls: src/lib9p: 'src/lib9p' does not exist ls: src/libString: 'src/libString' does not exist ls: src/libauth: 'src/libauth' does not exist ls: src/libauthsrv: 'src/libauthsrv' does not exist ls: src/libavl: 'src/libavl' does not exist ls: src/libbin: 'src/libbin' does not exist ls: src/libbio: 'src/libbio' does not exist
Re: [9fans] fossil archive corruption - solved
impressive. hats off. -- iphone kbd. excuse typos :) On Mar 22, 2012, at 8:24 PM, Richard Miller 9f...@hamnavoe.com wrote: I've not been able to easily reproduce this problem. How did you proceed? Not very reproducible, but I found it could be encouraged to happen (on a sacrificial secondary fossil+venti) with this: tar c /n/xfossil/sys/src /dev/null while (sleep 60) echo snap -a /srv/xfscons An easily recognisable consequence when it fails is a BtDir block with invalid contents. So I peppered the source with diagnostics checking for that, until I was able to spot exactly where it happened.
Re: [9fans] hardware device line - what about the file resource hardware devices that are supported
For the octopus we wrap underlying MacOS X or Linux devices, and then use them. For native plan 9 I don't know if there's a working usb camera. I think there was some, long ago, but I'm not even sure.
Re: [9fans] For first ONLY a laser printer in this resource meaning
I think in the octopus we have a print device that used the underlying default printer. It should be in /mnt/print or /mnt/terms/yourmachinename/print Take a look to the start scripts to see if print is starting or printing some diagnostics. So, cp afile.pdf /mnt/print should print it there. Ah, if you don't see /mnt/print/ndb then you don't have a printer running and mounted at /mnt/print. What Lyndon said is also true, btw. I'm not saying it's not. Only that you can also wrap non-native devices with little file servers, as in this case.
Re: [9fans] octopus paper
I'm trying to clear that out, we'll see. On Mar 2, 2012, at 5:27 PM, John Floren wrote: Unless Elsevier is even more evil that I thought, Nemo should still be able to post a PDF on lsub.org. Now, if they're really evil, they got exclusive rights... John
Re: [9fans] octopus paper
Ok. They said explicitly that I can post pre-prints of the paper at web sites. http://lsub.org/ls/export/ojss.ps On Mar 2, 2012, at 5:32 PM, Nemo wrote: I'm trying to clear that out, we'll see. On Mar 2, 2012, at 5:27 PM, John Floren wrote: Unless Elsevier is even more evil that I thought, Nemo should still be able to post a PDF on lsub.org. Now, if they're really evil, they got exclusive rights... John
Re: [9fans] octopus paper
I have plans for something related to it in the future, but nix goes before that and it will still take a long time to get there. So, for me, it's just the system I use for development (working on nix, mostly). On Mar 2, 2012, at 7:47 PM, Jack Johnson wrote: On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 12:37 AM, Francisco J Ballesteros n...@lsub.org wrote: Given the lag in publication, this system is no longer under development (though we are still using it), but here's a paper about the Octopus. Hey Francisco, First, I really like the ideas in Octopus. I think it was extremely well-considered, and worth reviewing as people reconsider where and how money is allocated in the various cloud-based infrastructure subsystems, and how much or how little it affects the net effect. Would you say it's more in maintenance mode or are you already considering the subsequent cephalopod? :) -Jack
[9fans] poll: files
I'm working on a file system that will keep most of the tree in memory at all times (in fact, the active tree is only in memory). It archives frozen temporary copies to a disk partition until it gets full (in which case the oldest is discarded) and an external program is going to make permanent archives in venti. I'd like to know how many files do you have in /active and how big is your /active tree in the machines you are using (even though they might not run plan 9, I don't care about that). thanks for the info. PS: send it directly to me, I'll summarize here if people wants to know.
Re: [9fans] iwp9 hotel issues :-(
anyone near atocha would do. there should be rooms. -- iphone kbd. excuse typos :) On Oct 18, 2011, at 6:22 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@labs.coraid.com wrote: i messed up and didn't reserve a hotel soon enough. does anyone know of alternate hotels? thanks. - erik
Re: [9fans] gar nix!
im working in smp.
On Sep 16, 2011, at 8:46 AM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote:
hey, ron.
On Fri Sep 16 01:57:04 EDT 2011, rminn...@gmail.com wrote:
for the 2M pages -- I'm willing to see some measurement but let's get
the #s -- I've done some simple measurements and it's not the hit one
would expect. These new machines have about 10 GB/s bandwidth (well,
the ones we are targeting do) and that translates to sub-millisecond
times to zero a 2M page. Further, the text page is in the image cache.
So after first exec of a program, the only text issue is locating the
page. It's not simply a case of having to write 6M each time you exec.
however, neither the stack nor the heap are. that's 4MB that need to be
cleared. that sounds like an operation that could take on the order of
ms, and well-worth measuring.
maybe it might make sense to use 4k pages for stack, and sometime for
the heap.
I note that starting a proc, allocating and zeroing 2 GiB, takes
*less* time with 2M pages than 4K pages -- this was measured in May
when we still were supporting 4K pages -- the page faults are far more
i'll try to get some numbers soon, but i think a higher priority is to get
a smp setup. is anyone testing with smp right now?
are you sure this isn't the difference between throughput and latency?
did you try a small-executable test like
for(i in `{seq 1 100})dd -if /dev/zero -of /dev/null -quiet 1
? now that the code has been removed, it's a little harder to replicate your
numbers.
expensive than the time to write the memory. Again, YMMV, esp. on an
Atom, but the cost of taking (say) 6 page faults for a 24k text
segment that's already in memory may not be what you want.
There are plenty of games to be played to reduce the cost of zero
filled pages but at least from what I measured the 2M pages are not a
real hit.
i'm okay with the atom suffering a little bit (odd how far down the food
chain one can get 64 bits!), i'm actually more concerned about
being punshed severely for forking on a beefy but busy machine.
the atom is just my test mule.
(can't one just preemptively map the whole text on first-fault?)
- erik
p.s. i guess the claim i thought i saw that you need 1gb pages
isn't correct. that's good, but i need to track down why i don't see 'em on
the atom.
Re: [9fans] Announcing Inferno for Android phones
impressive :) On Sep 17, 2011, at 12:23 AM, John Floren j...@jfloren.net wrote: We would like to announce the availability of Inferno for Android phones. Because our slogan is If it ain't broke, break it, we decided to replace the Java stack on Android phones with Inferno. We've dubbed it the Hellaphone--it was originally Hellphone, to keep with the Inferno theme, but then we realized we're in Northern California and the change was obvious. The Hellaphone runs Inferno directly on top of the basic Linux layer provided by Android. We do not even allow the Java system to start. Instead, emu draws directly to the Linux framebuffer (thanks, Andrey, for the initial code!) and treats the touchscreen like a one-button mouse. Because the Java environment doesn't start, it only takes about 10 seconds to go from power off to a fully-booted Inferno environment. As of today, we have Inferno running on the Nexus S and the Nook Color. It should also run on the Android emulator, but we haven't tested that in a long time. The cell radio is supported, at least on the Nexus S (the only actual phone we've had), so you can make phone calls, send texts, and use the data network. The Inferno window manager has been re-worked with cell phone use in mind. Windows are automatically sized to fill the whole screen. The menu has been moved to the top and the menu items have been made significantly larger. Physical buttons on the phone are now used to do many common tasks: (these keys are for the Nexus S, different bindings are used for the Nook, which has different keys available) * Back: Close the current window * Menu: Toggle the onscreen keyboard * Home: Minimize the current window * Power: Turn off the screen * Power+Volume Up: Open the screen brightness widget * Power+Volume Down: Turn off the phone * Power+Home: Restart Inferno Installation is reasonably simple. You'll need the Android SDK (http://developer.android.com/sdk/index.html), with the platform-tools package installed for the adb and fastboot utilities. We also strongly recommend installing CyanogenMod on your phone before proceeding--that's what we use to test. First, make absolutely sure you have the adb and fastboot commands in your path--see the previous paragraph regarding the SDK and try running adb to be sure. Download the tarball from http://bitbucket.org/floren/inferno/downloads/hellaphone.tgz and unpack it in your root. You should end up with a /data/inferno directory (we put it there because of the Inferno build process). Then, go to the /data/inferno/android directory and run the Reflash-Nexus-S.sh script (assuming you have a Nexus S. Run Reflash-Nook-Color.sh if you have a Nook). This will automatically set up the phone to boot into either Inferno or the regular Java environment--during bootup, the screen will go solid white; if you touch the screen at this point, it will boot into the regular Android environment, otherwise it will timeout and go to Inferno. However, at this point you're not yet ready to boot into Inferno, so reboot the phone and touch the screen to go into the regular Android UI. The final task is to run the command cd /data/inferno; ./parallel-push.sh. Reboot, let it boot into Inferno, and you're ready to go. You can also clone the repository (http://bitbucket.org/floren/inferno/) and build it yourself, but this is a significant effort. I do not recommend it if you wish to simply try the system, but if you want to do development you should get the repository. Disclaimer: If you break your phone, it's not our fault. Don't email us, don't come knocking on our door, and don't call us--oh wait, you won't be able to do that anyway, your phone is broken! Credit where credit is due: Ron Minnich came up with the initial idea--we've been kicking the idea of a Plan 9/Inferno phone around for years. Our summer interns, Joel Armstrong and Joshua Landgraf, did the lion's share of the work of making Inferno into a usable cell phone OS--no small feat, considering that neither had any Limbo or Inferno experience before the start of the summer! They re-wrote the UI, puzzled out the undocumented cell radio interface, figured out audio, worked to make Inferno more portable across phones, and generally figured out how to make Inferno and the Android kernel coexist peacefully. Andy Jones, another intern, also did some very early work with Android that helped us figure out the Android init process and how to build for Android. I took care of getting Inferno running on the phone in the first place and have been adding things occasionally since then. We would also like to thank Andrey Mirtchovski for providing the OLPC framebuffer code (which ported to the Android phones relatively easily), and of course Charles Forsyth for keeping the Inferno torch lit all these years (and helping me figure out some puzzling problems throughout the
Re: [9fans] Announcing Inferno for Android phones
or some screenshots at least :) On Sep 17, 2011, at 12:46 AM, andrey mirtchovski mirtchov...@gmail.com wrote: John, turn a camera on and film the phone while using it, please!
Re: [9fans] NIX 64-bit kernel is available
i was in the middle of a commit try the release tag or give me one more hour. On Sep 15, 2011, at 6:39 AM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: i'm having a bit of trouble compiling everything. chula; mk trap.6 6c -FTVw trap.c trap.c:280 not a member of struct/union: core trap.c:281 not a member of struct/union: nixtype mk: 6c -FTVw trap.c : exit status=rc 25899: 6c 25901: error /sys/include/tos.h doesn't appear to match. - erik
Re: [9fans] tech writer humor
apic ids can be found in the madt table, from acpi, iirc. On Feb 22, 2011, at 9:27 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: On Tue Feb 22 15:11:29 EST 2011, rminn...@gmail.com wrote: let me ask the question again. I know what the difference between APIC and ACPI means. i wasn't implying that you didn't. i was saying that i sometimes think one and say the other. Why is it that they don't think anyone needs that register any more? What are they suggesting people use instead? good question. as i said before, i have to chalk it up to hurried documentation. i'm quite sure apic ids are still important. - erik
Re: [9fans] streams
i reply myself; i think they use sst to mix multimedia streams, and in that case a lost packet in one stream (say text) would delay other streams (say audio) that do not need to be delayed if you use sst. But otherwise I still think that muxing a tcp stream might provide something similar (without some of sst ffeatures, i admit) and a lot easier to implement. I'll write a toy to see if this is wrong. thanks for your reply, Russ, btw. On Feb 21, 2011, at 12:25 AM, Nemo nemo.m...@gmail.com wrote: i did read it before asking, and i'm still wondering why not mux tcp instead (provided you dont want/need that extra feature or dont implement it that way) On Feb 20, 2011, at 10:59 PM, Russ Cox r...@swtch.com wrote: On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 11:55 AM, Nemo nemo.m...@gmail.com wrote: why not mux tcp instead? See the paper. Among other things, independent flow control on the different sub-streams. http://www.brynosaurus.com/pub/net/sst-abs.html
Re: [9fans] streams
why not mux tcp instead? On Feb 20, 2011, at 2:35 AM, Charles Forsyth fors...@terzarima.net wrote: i think it might be helpful to have a transport protocol along the lines of Bryan Ford's SST, which allows a stream to create substreams with separate flow control and other attributes. a primary 9p stream might create a substream for a large Tread or Twrite. the facility could be emulated for existing protocols, although addressing puzzles make that trickier that one might like. the demo SST implementation was built on UDP. a service to resolve addressing puzzles might be useful too.
Re: [9fans] streams
i did read it before asking, and i'm still wondering why not mux tcp instead (provided you dont want/need that extra feature or dont implement it that way) On Feb 20, 2011, at 10:59 PM, Russ Cox r...@swtch.com wrote: On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 11:55 AM, Nemo nemo.m...@gmail.com wrote: why not mux tcp instead? See the paper. Among other things, independent flow control on the different sub-streams. http://www.brynosaurus.com/pub/net/sst-abs.html
Re: [9fans] usb vid/did
i think usbd added that. iirc it should do it. I'll take a look anyway. maybe the code was gone in some change... On Jan 7, 2011, at 2:12 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: it doesn't seem to be available in anyone's control files. usb(3) says This may result from the read of an endpoint control file: (the first line is wrapped to make it fit here) enabled control rw speed full maxpkt 64 pollival 0 samplesz 0 hz 0 hub 1 port 3 busy storage csp 0x500608 vid 0x951 did 0x1613 Kingston 'DT 101 II' yet my endpoints never have a vid nor a did. kw# grep . */ctl ep1.0/ctl:enabled control rw speed high maxpkt 64 pollival 0 samplesz 0 hz 0 hub 0 port 0 busy ep1.0/ctl:roothub csp 0x09 ports 1 ehci ep2.0/ctl:enabled control rw speed high maxpkt 64 pollival 0 samplesz 0 hz 0 hub 1 port 1 busy ep2.0/ctl:hub csp 0x020009 ports 7 none nil ehci ep3.0/ctl:enabled control rw speed full maxpkt 8 pollival 0 samplesz 0 hz 0 hub 2 port 2 busy ep3.0/ctl:hub csp 0x09 ports 3 'Mitsumi Electric' 'Hub in Apple Extended USB Keyboard' ehci a little grep-o-matic indicates this is just the way it goes. is this an oversite, or does usb(3) just not have that information? if not, usbd(4) does have that information. are there any problems with adding it and correcting the man page? - erik
Re: [9fans] A little more ado about async Tclunk
let's call it rumba and go on. On Oct 30, 2010, at 1:28 AM, Bruce Ellis bruce.el...@gmail.com wrote: well you need more books. On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 10:07 AM, roger peppe rogpe...@gmail.com wrote: the only book by hoare i've got (CSP) doesn't mention a deadly embrace. On 29 October 2010 23:43, Bruce Ellis bruce.el...@gmail.com wrote: grab a book by hoare or morgan. brucee On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 9:39 AM, roger peppe rogpe...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 October 2010 21:44, Bruce Ellis bruce.el...@gmail.com wrote: that definition is wrong! so point us to the right one then.
Re: [9fans] πp
back to the 80s, or was it 70s? many people have implemented migration. the first i remember is swaping (yes, not paging) out a process, then swapping it back into a different machine. iirc, it might be the sprite unix, not quite sure. the point is, the migrated process still needs all the connections it had with the outer world in the old location. perhaps, some of them to other processes still at the old location. they got it working, but they were caught in the resulting spaghetty. So, when I hear migration, I just tend to see what happens after it has been implemented and faces the spaghethy phase. Of course it might be just that this word scares the hell out of me. On Oct 15, 2010, at 6:28 PM, Lyndon Nerenberg lyn...@orthanc.ca wrote: i wonder if making 9p work better over high latency connections is even the right answer to the problem. the real problem is that the data your program wants to work on in miles away from you and transfering it all will suck. would it not be cool to have a way to teleport/migrate your process to a cpu server close to the data? This works when you can colocate CPU with the data. But think of sensor networks where the data lives on very cpu- and power-challenged SOCs behind, e.g., high-latency radio links. --lyndon
Re: [9fans] bib?
I don't know if i took bib from somewhere, adapted it, wrote it, or what happen. but i have been used it. if it does not work I can check out to see if the copy I'm using is different. sorry for the delay in the reply, had a bad server day, thus, bad day. On Oct 4, 2010, at 10:34 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: On Mon Oct 4 16:04:09 EDT 2010, jaketodd...@gmail.com wrote: There's http://lsub.org/who/nemo/9.html. that looks right. i had to change a number of instances of assigning NULL to a char, as in: char *p; ... p[n] = NULL;/* sic */ - erik
Re: [9fans] Sheevaplug - USB working? Just checking
Iirc, there's still work to be done to get them working fully and properly. But i may be mistaken. I remember I had to add support for kbin and mousein, as Erik points out. On Sep 6, 2010, at 5:22 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: On Mon Sep 6 10:44:06 EDT 2010, eeke...@fastmail.fm wrote: Just checking before I buy something; do the host-side USB ports work on the Sheevaplug? That's the ports you plug USB devices into, yes. but life is not trouble-free: plug# /boot/usbd: /dev/usb/ep2.0: warning: device with short descriptor usb/hub... kb: #m/mousein: unknown device in # filename usb/kb... kb: #Ι/kbin: unknown device in # filename usb/kb... plug# - erik
