Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

[Matt Wilbur]

On Mon, May 13, 2024 at 3:20 PM adventures in9 
wrote:

> Suggesting ways to try out a Plan9 system is not a hypothetical for
> me.  I put myself out there doing videos demonstrating Plan9 systems,
> and so I get questions all the time.


FWIW I have found your channel *extremely* helpful in learning how to play
with 9front and am very grateful for it.

Matt





>
> Everyone has access to amd64 machines.  The used market is flooded
> with retired quad core amd64 Dell and Lenovo office desktops.  Most
> experienced Linux users who want to try a Plan9 system can also
> navigate qemu.  9Front covers all these use cases.  The typical
> problems that arise are lack of drivers, which 9Legacy is even worse
> with.
>
> Besides the hardware issue, the biggest benefit from 9Front is that it
> has an active community all working on the same fork.  The most eye
> opening thing about this whole long exchange is that the old Plan9
> people are largely working alone on private forks.
>
> On Mon, May 13, 2024 at 10:02 AM Ori Bernstein  wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, 13 May 2024 11:56:20 -0400
> > "ibrahim via 9fans" <9fans@9fans.net> wrote:
> >
> > > I'm wondering why you don't adjust it so that 9front can also be run
> there.
> >
> > Because 9vx is a hacky dead end; it fundamentally
> > only runs (and can only run) on 32-bit x86. It
> > works because of a quirk of 32-bit x86 addressing.
> >
> > Linux distros are wanting to drop support for
> > running 32 bit binaries (Ubuntu tried in 2019,
> > others have tried on and off).
> >
> > Macs no longer ship x86 processors, and even the
> > ones that have x86 cpus dropped support for 32-bit
> > binaries 5 years ago.
> >
> > I have no idea what windows is up to.
> >
> > Basically, qemu/drawterm works better in more or
> > less every way.

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Re: [9fans] How do I build from source on linux?

[Matt Wilbur]

It’s not possible to build but you could edit on Linux and build on your
qemu machine

On Thu, Jun 15, 2023 at 1:01 PM  wrote:

> Well i wanted to do things on Linux since i don't find the environment
> nice at all on 9front and would want to make my life easier by doing it on
> Linux. Turns out not.
> *9fans * / 9fans / see discussions
>  + participants
>  + delivery options
>  Permalink
> 
>

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Re: [9fans] How do I build from source on linux?

[Matt Wilbur]



On Thu, Jun 15, 2023 at 12:00 PM Arne Meyer  wrote:

> You don't
>
>  schrieb am Do., 15. Juni 2023, 18:53:
>
>> I run 9front with QEMU and i want to make some changes to it from source
>> and than build it and run it on qemu. How do I build it on linux with no mk?
>>
> *9fans * / 9fans / see discussions
>  + participants
>  + delivery options
>  Permalink
> 
>

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Re: [9fans] Despite being called a fork, is 9front similar to how Linux distros work?

[Matt]

On Monday, January 17, 2022, at 8:36 PM, Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir wrote:
> I'm afraid you got it wrong. Community is mostly centered around
9front. One of the reasons is that it actually works and is still
being developed and used by many. Plan 9 is dead, 9front lives on.
There is also software developed outside of 9front git repo, by people
who use 9front: http://only9fans.com Whether some "secret community" decides to 
"accept" (or not) 9front as
"official" doesn't matter.
I see. Now that I look at it, 9fans its more similar to 9front than Plan 9 
indeed. My confusion arose from the description being "Fans of the OS Plan 9 
from Bell Labs". Besides that, the subreddit is r/plan9, and people seem to 
talk more often about Plan 9 itself than 9front. Thanks for clearing it up.

On Monday, January 17, 2022, at 9:21 PM, Thaddeus Woskowiak wrote:
> All wrong. From my perspective 9front is plan 9 from the future
> compared to today's plan 9. 9front development moves at a much faster
> pace thanks to adopting tools like mercurial in the past and now git.
> That enables devs who are passionate about moving plan 9 forward
> commit access using tools they, and most of today's developers are
> already intimate with. It has virtualization, modern encryption,
> cleaned up pci code, rc fixes, boot clean up, and so much more.
> 
> The mailing list is very active and crawling with devs eager to review
> and apply fixes. It has a lot of enthusiastic energy behind it and
> keeps the core philosophy of plan 9 alive. This has attracted many
> wonderful and talented devs who would have otherwise stumbled with the
> old defaults of legacy.
> 
> Personally, I struggled with plan 9 until finding 9front. I run a CPU
> server at home 24/7 and it's been running reliably for years. I then
> netboot or tcp boot everything else. I love working with this
> operating system.
That's really great. I'm also interested and quite enthusiastic about working 
with 9front. Although, I'd have more chances of winning a competition for the 
worst developer... Thanks for your help.
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Re: [9fans] Despite being called a fork, is 9front similar to how Linux distros work?

[Matt]

But that's why 9front was forked, right? They say it on their FAQ. Even though 
Plan 9 isn't being developed anymore, doesn't the fork cause worry that one day 
they become too different, especially since the community is rather centered 
around Plan 9 rather than 9front? Or is the community actively trying to make 
9front be accepted as the official continuation of Plan 9?
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Re: [9fans] Despite being called a fork, is 9front similar to how Linux distros work?

[Matt]

@Humm: I understand that Android isn't a fork of Linux, I meant to imply that 
although Android is argued to be a Linux distro, they have very different 
environments that can't easily interact with each other. I also know that the 
meaning of forking is objective, I meant that forking invokes the mentioned 
feelings in me, subjectively. I understand that Plan 9 is not being developed 
anymore, but the community seems to be centered around it rather than 9front. 
Therefore, I wondered if that's because 9front, despite being forked, intends 
to stay true to Plan 9, like Linux distros stay true to the Linux kernel 
despite small configurations, as you said, so that if other operational systems 
are forked from Plan 9, they are able to interoperate easily with 9front.

@ori: Those are examples of forked software that happened because of the 
discontinuation of the original software, right? At least most of them are. 
That's what 9front is to Plan 9, right? If so, thanks for the clarification.

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Re: [9fans] problem using a vera font in rio

[matt]

i don't know.  it's not libfreetype.  fontsrv asks the OS X
graphics code to render each glyph into a box and then
concatenates the boxes to make the subfont.
all the text was noticeably lighter (more grey)
than in your screen shot when i put them side by side.
   



this is due to apple's algorithm for rendering glyphs.

I don't know if it is relevant but OSX uses a 1.8 Gamma whereas PC's ( 
TVs) use 2.2

Re: [9fans] pineview atom

[matt]

  it supports 4gb of memory.   
 


of non-ECC memory, so nice terminal, bad server


the probability of having at least one bit error in 4 gigabyes of 
memory at sea level on planet Earth in 72 hours is over 95%.



http://lambda-diode.com/opinion/ecc-memory

Re: [9fans] In case anyone worries about block hash collision in venti

[matt]

not only has someone got to find a collision during a tiny timeframe, 
they also have to fit it in 8k

Re: [9fans] contrib/gui

[Matt Adams]

Nice work, Federico!  This is very useful.  Thank you.

[9fans] Removing pages from the wiki

[Matt Adams]

Folks:

I've created a test page on the Plan 9 wiki and now want to get rid of
it so it doesn't add to the clutter on the site.  I don't see an
explicit remove feature - does one exist?


Thanks,

Matt

Re: [9fans] Coraid funded

[Matt Adams]

To the Coraid team:

Congrats on your recent funding - your efforts to improve and enhance
Plan 9 are obvious throughout the community.


Cheers,

Matt

[9fans] aux/vga: nvidia: not enough memory

[Matt Adams]

Folks: 

I've got a computer that I've added a better video card to in an
attempt to replace the wimpy onboard card.

I first tried adding an NVidia MX440se 64MB PCI card but got the
following error when I tired to start rio:

aux/vga: nvidia: not enough memory - 17408

I'm only asking for 1024x768x16.

I then put in an ATI Radeon Rage of some sort and got the exact same
error message which I think very odd since it's not an NVidia card.

Any idea what's up and what I can try next?


Thanks,

Matt

[9fans] How long should it take fossil to dump to venti (1st time around)

[Matt Adams]

Hi folks:

I've installed Plan 9 on another of my systems and so far so good.
This configuration is an all-in-one fossil+venti system.  Nothing has
been extended beyond the default ISO.

After I installed and rebooted I noticed that the hard drive light
came on and stayed on.  It's been on for several hours thus far.  I
assume that this is fossil being dumped for the first time but I
didn't think it would take this long.

Is there a way for me to peek at the dump process?  I'd like to turn
this machine off at some point but don't want to interrupt it.


Thanks,

Matt

[9fans] Logitech Wireless Optical Trackman

[Matt Adams]

Folks:

I am using a Logitech Wireless Optical Trackman.  When using Linux I
need to remap a couple of the buttons using the line 

pointer = 1 2 9 4 5 6 7 8 3

in my .Xmodmap file.

Button 1 works as expected and in the shell I can only get access to
the cut, paste, snarf... menu with buttons 8  9 - I think this is
equivalent to button 2 - but can't seem to get access to button 3.

Has anyone had success getting this type of mouse to work successfully
in Plan 9.  I know it is not the typical 3-button mouse but it works
fine in my other setups and fits nicely alongside my keyboard.  It
certainly has *enough* buttons.


Thanks,

Matt
-- 
PO Box 393 Wabasca, AB T0G 2K0 780-891-3282 mad...@phantomware.ca

Re: [9fans] How long should it take fossil to dump to venti (1st time around)

[Matt Adams]

  It will take a very long time, espicially if your IDE controller is not
  known or it is and DMA is known to be problematic.

Thanks, Steve.  The disks finally quieted down early this afternoon.
I just didn't expect it to take that long.

Matt

Re: [9fans] Hardware for Plan9

[matt]

I'm running the traditional Ken FS, sans Erik's mods.
 

sans is French for without hence serif  sans-serif, is that what 
you meant ?

[9fans] Recovering venti arenas using Qemu

[matt]

For Xmas Santa decided I'd been a bad boy and brought me a hard disk
failure.

Little did he know I had been dumping my arenas.

After a few false starts today I finally managed to get to my data

http://maht0x0r.blogspot.com/2010/01/restoring-venti-from-dumped-arenas.html

THANK YOU to everyone concerned :)

matt

if only the burst pipe  broken central heating were so easy to fix!

Re: [9fans] Just one piece o' help.

[matt]

 


burning CD/DVD
   



Plan 9 has a very elegant approach to burning CDs.  See
cdfs(4) and mk9660(8) for the details.
 


I wrote a wee helper for burning .iso files

http://plan9/bell-labs.com/sources/contrib/maht/rc/iso2cd

/n/sources/contrib/maht/rc/iso2cd

Re: [9fans] faces

[matt]

You can't prove harmlessness in people, hence the joyful collective 
outcry of all men are potential rapists. It's the halting problem of 
human interaction



Brian! Your computer thinks your face is harmful!

   


The following attachment had content that we can't
prove to be harmless. 
 



I get that a lot...but usually from women :)

BLS


 

Re: [9fans] What do you use plan 9 for?

[matt]

chutsu wrote:


So.. been looking at plan 9, am confused what plan 9 is used for? I
mean I know its a hobbyst sort of OS, but what can you do with it
though?
Can you browse the internet?
Watch videos?
Thanks
Chris

 


Your pre-conceptions are erroneous.

http://9fans.net/

read the man pages  papers

Re: [9fans] 9p resource sharing [was: Scanners]

[matt]

i wasn't talking about aoe.  but since you are, what
exactly is difficult about the plan 9 aoe driver?

- erik

 

the installer, or was last time I looked, I did try to make one but got 
so far and decided on a better way which is on my large pile of todo. 
I made a install to this drive script that did away with the installer 
completely but I haven't tested it much yet.

Re: [9fans] 9p resource sharing [was: Scanners]

[matt]

erik quanstrom wrote:


On Thu Nov 26 15:36:39 EST 2009, news...@lava.net wrote:
 


or the cannonical example, a hard drive.
 


I intentionally avoided this one because two things that modern
OSs do know how to share (at least a little) are:
  - filesystems
  - printers
   



it is pretty hard to run windows, osx or linux without
a hard drive.
 

I've done Linux over AoE, that was flawless once working. Lack of AoE 
aware installers made it interesting.


Plan9 is a fiddle too

I didn't try the MacOSX or Windows AoE initiators.

You need plenty of Foo to do any of them tbh.

Re: [9fans] instructions to use .eps in troff wanted

[matt]

Rudolf Sykora wrote:


Hello,

is there any good place where I could read how to embed some pictures 
into a troff document?

Preferably a way that works in plan9, too...
I can't find much about it anywhere.
What do you use?

Thanks
Ruda




/n/sources/contrib/maht/ppm2eps/

Re: [9fans] Examples of rc scripts

[matt]

Maurí­cio CA wrote:


Hi, all,

I found 'werc' in a wikipedia link, and used it
as a source for examples of how to use rc. Are there
other places where I can found rc scripts, as well
as other scripts for plan9 tools?

(By the way, do you know how can I attribute a
here document to a variable?)

Thanks,
Maurício


for werc specific rc scripting my project is 
http://code.google.com/p/scrappydog/

sadly the running code is down atm as the machine died.

some other examples of mine

http://plan9.bell-labs.com./sources/contrib/maht/rc/

though I'm sure there are better examples in the other contrib dirs

http://plan9.bell-labs.com./sources/contrib/

Re: [9fans] hoc's behaviour, unary operators

[matt]

i'll leave as an excersize why kr thought that making --
and ++ tokens was worth while.

 

did DEC make them do it so they could issue trademark infringement 
lawsuits for copying the instruction mnemonic?

Re: [9fans] [9ans] Question about network protocols

[matt]

ty ty wrote:


i haven't found any with grep


I find this quite good for browsing the source in a web browser

http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/?v=PLAN9

ipattach is referenced here

http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/ident?v=PLAN9;i=ipattach

Re: [9fans] Barrelfish

[matt]

Sorry to kick this rotting horse but I just got back

 


You've got to feed in 2 hours of source material - 820Gb per stream, how?
   



I suppose some sort of parallel bus of wires or optic fibres.  


we call that hand waving


If I have
massively parallel processing I would want massively parallel IO to go with it.
I.e. something like read data starting from here - here it is streaming one
megabit in parallel down the bus at 1Ghz over 1 million channels
 


While riding a unicorn


would take advantage of perhaps 720 cores to encode a two hour video in 10
second chunks with barely any Ahmdal effects,
 


This 720Gbit storage device sounds pretty good.


People do this stuff every day.
Have you heard of a render-farm?
 

Your sarcasm is cute. Have you used a render farm ? You're right that 
rendering on a few cores is CPU bound. But you've moved the goalposts by 
100,000,000 orders of magnitude.


We have this comic on the wall with programmer|compiling replaced with 
animator|rendering


http://xkcd.com/303/

And there's a standing order that you can't have sex unless you're 
rendering.



I'm not sure why I'm wasting time writing about this, it's obvious anyway.
 


Yeah, that must be why everyone is rendering Imax movies in a few seconds.

We can all imagine a place where computation is instant and we just say 
computer! run Sherlock Holmes on the Holodeck from where we left off, 
but this time give it a Wild West theme.

[9fans] I made it home

[matt]

Hi, I've been awake 40 hours or so now but I'm not hallucinating enough 
for my liking just yet but at leas the coffee tastes good here!


IWP9 was fab, a big thank you to everyone involved, attending, watching 
and those disappointed not to be there.
Sorry to those we managed to lose on Saturday, we all thought the other 
had the necessary cell phone nos!


Thanks to Ian for recommending The Grit, great food  delicious vegan 
cake, we even went back for breakfast.


Atlanta Fry's was a geek grotto, I half wish I'd had some money left 
(the other half is glad not to have a bag full of more gadgets to get 
round to playing with!).


Atlanta was a bit of a contrast after Athens, I'm glad I was only there 
2 nights. Even then my fake southern accent came in handy for the 
occasions I got asked the time while walking around alone in the dark. 
Lone white man is more usually known as Mark I think.


Oh how I missed having a smartphone on me with a data connection all the 
time.


Here's some links from various conversations.

* Boeing's passenger Wifi  Pilot fly-by-wire bridge
http://www.wired.com/politics/security/news/2008/01/dreamliner_security

* Apple's flash ram keyboard exploit
http://www.digitalsociety.org/2009/08/apple-keyboards-hacked-and-possessed/

* Cyanide in Apple seeds
http://www.snopes.com/food/warnings/apples.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanide

* // in URIS
http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1738.html

says the BNF for http URL's is

; HTTP

httpurl= http://; hostport [ / hpath [ ? search ]]
hpath  = hsegment *[ / hsegment ]
hsegment   = *[ uchar | ; | : | @ |  | = ]
search = *[ uchar | ; | : | @ |  | = ]

Contrary to my assertion and expectation Apache  maps 
http://www.maht0x0r.net//i.php on to document_root/i.php
Personally, I think this is a bug from mapping URIs to filenames, it 
should be 404. IE used to strip them out before sending the request but 
that is no longer the case (which is why it came up)


Section 3.3 of the RFC says

http://host:port/path?searchpart

path is an HTTP selector


* James Hamilton's Blog
James is Vice President and Distinguished Engineer at Amazon Web 
Services, formerly with 12 years at Microsoft and was a driving force 
behind the data centre in a shipping container idea and previous to that 
did 12 years at IBM. Ok a man that did SQL Server 7.0, Server-Side XML 
and IBM's C++ compiler might not be top of everyone's reading list but 
the reason I mentioned him at the time was his advocacy of ARM in the 
Datacentre


http://perspectives.mvdirona.com/2009/09/07/LinuxApacheOnARMProcessors.aspx

and the skinny on the next breed of ARMs

http://perspectives.mvdirona.com/default,date,2009-09-16.aspx



See you next year

Maht

Re: [9fans] Barrelfish

[matt]

The  misinterpretation of Moore's Law is to blame here, of course: Moore
is a smart guy and he was talking about transistor density, but pop culture
made is sound like he was talking speed up. For some time the two were
in lock-step. Not anymore.
 

I ran the numbers the other day based on sped doubles every 2 years, a 
60Mhz Pentium would be running 16Ghz by now

I think it was the 1ghz that should be 35ghz

Re: [9fans] Barrelfish

[matt]

erik quanstrom wrote:



you motivated me to find my copy of _high speed
semiconductor devices_, s.m. sze, ed., 1990.

 


which motivated me to dig out the post I made elsewhere :

Moore's law doesn't say anything about speed or power. It says 
manufacturing costs will lower from technological improvements such that 
the reasonably priced transistor count in an IC will double every 2 years.


And here's a pretty graph 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Transistor_Count_and_Moore%27s_Law_-_2008.svg


The misunderstanding makes people who say such twaddle as Moore's Law, 
the founding axiom behind Intel, that chips get exponentially faster.


If we pretend that 2 years = double speed then roughly :
The 1993 66Mhz P1 would now be running at 16.9Ghz
The 1995 200Mhz Pentium now would be 25.6Ghz
The 1997 300Mhz Pentium now would be 19.2Ghz
The 1999 500Mhz Pentium now would be 16Ghz
The 2000 1.3Ghz Pentium now would be 20Ghz
The 2002 2.2Ghz Pentium would now be 35Ghz
The 2002 3.06Ghz Pentium would be going on 48Ghz by Xmas

If you plot speed vs year for Pentiums you get two straight lines with a 
change in gradient in 1999 with the introduction of the P4

Re: [9fans] Barrelfish

[matt]

Eris Discordia wrote:


Moore's law doesn't say anything about speed or power.



But why'd you assume people in the wrong (w.r.t. their understanding 
of Moore's law) would measure speed in gigahertz rather than MIPS or 
FLOPS?



because that's what the discussion I was having was about

Re: [9fans] Barrelfish

[matt]

this is quite an astounding thread.  you brought
up clock speed doubling and now refute yourself.

i just noted that 48ghz is not possible with silicon
non-quantium effect tech.

- erik

 

I think I've been misunderstood, I wasn't asserting the clock speed 
increase in the first place, I was hoping to demonstrate what would have 
happened if Moore's law was the often misquoted speed doubles every 2 
years when measured in Ghz (not flops as noted by Eris)

Re: [9fans] android hacking?

[matt]

hiro wrote:


Is the usb port speaking the standard usb storage language?

 


yes, to the SD card, no idea if you can do anything else with it

Re: [9fans] android hacking?

[matt]

Tim Newsham wrote:


Anyone playing with android phones?



I have a G1 dev but I've not written a single line of code for it

You didn't mention the camera, I try not to !

What would be amazing would be attaching it via USB and importing its 
/net (or some other way of turning it into a 3G modem for plan9)

Re: [9fans] android hacking?

[matt]

hiro wrote:


What would be amazing would be attaching it via USB and importing its /net
(or some other way of turning it into a 3G modem for plan9)
   



Is there more about it than compiling inferno and simply exporting that device?

 


I'm sure that would be great, drop me an email when it's finished :)

Re: [9fans] android hacking?

[matt]

Anthony Sorace wrote:


as i understand it, proper android stuff is meant to be in their
java flavor. you can load C programs, 



http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2009/06/introducing-android-scripting.html


http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/android-barcode-scanner/

Just as a proof-of-concept, here’s a barcode scanner written in six 
lines of Python code:


import android
droid = android.Android()
code = droid.scanBarcode()
isbn = int(code['result']['SCAN_RESULT'])
url = “http://books.google.com?q=%d” % isbn
droid.startActivity(’android.intent.action.VIEW’, url)

Re: [9fans] mishandling empty lists - let's fix it

[matt]

You can build this whole dream using plan9 and show the world, you don't 
have to rewrite any of the utilities, just shape the calling convention 
to your liking.
I bet you could even find the pattern and wrap the whole lot in a meta 
script, maybe even utilise an FS



fn mkdir {
   if(! ~ $#* 0)
  /bin/mkdir $*
ifs = '
'
   m = `{read}
while(! ~ $#m 0) {
 ifs = ' '
 p = `{echo -n $m}
/bin/mkdir $p
 ifs='
'
 m = `{read}
   }
}

with no newlines in directory names


*On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 2:04 PM, John Stalker stal...@maths.tcd.ie wrote:

 


`cat' would concatenate 0 files, i.e. ouptut nothing,
   



cat would copy stdin to stdout

 


`chmod 755' would set the permissions of no files to 755,
   



would read a list of files from stdin and change the modes

 


`cp foo/' would move no files to the directory foo,
   


would read a list of files from stdin and copy them.

 


`df' would show free disk space for no filesystems,
   


would read a list of file system names and df them.

 


`kill' would stop no processes,
   


would read a list of pids in and stop them.

 


`ln foo/' would hardlink no files into the directory foo,
   


would read a list of filenames in and ln them

 


`ls' would list no files (you would use `ls .' for the usual case),
   


would read a list of file names in and ls them.

 


`mkdir' would create no directories,
   


would read a list of file names in and mkdir them (I could really use this one)

 


`mv foo/' would move no files into the directory foo,
   


would read a list of file names in and mv them

 


`ps -U' would show no users' processes,
   


would read a list of user names in and ps them

 


`rm' would remove no files,
   


would read a list of file names in and rm them

 


and `sh' would execute no scripts in the Bourne shell.
   



would read a set of commands from stdin and ... oh wait it does this.

I prefer my version to your versions. I can see uses for them already.

ron

 

Re: [9fans] mishandling empty lists - let's fix it

[matt]

sqweek wrote:



fn apply {
   cmd=$1
   shift
   while(! test $1 = :) {
   cmd=($cmd $1)
   shift
   }
   for(i in $*) $cmd $i
}
# eg: apply grep foo : *.c





that's the beauty of the rc shell, you can define what you like

fn cat {
   if(~ $#* 0)
   /bin/cat /dev/null
   if not {
  as = ()
  for(a in $*) {
 if(~ $a -)
as = ($as /fd/0)
 if not
as = ($as $a)
  }
  /bin/cat $as
   }
}

now
% echo test | cat
% echo test | cat -
test
%  cat  /lib/words | sed 1q
AAA
%

If your shell programs are defeated by unexpected empty lists I suggest 
you write better shell programs :)

Re: [9fans] handling output

[matt]

Tee part of the POSIX standard

http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/utilities/tee.html


hugo rivera wrote:


Great, thanks.
Looks like plan 9 guys have thought about everything useful ☺ (and
that I didn't do my homework).

2009/10/1, roger peppe rogpe...@gmail.com:
 


2009/10/1 hugo rivera uai...@gmail.com:

   


I've been wondering for a while if there's some way to multiplex (if
 


 this is the correct term) stdout for a given program:


that's what tee does.

e.g.
ls | tee {grep regexp1  file1} {grep regexp2  file2}


   




 

Re: [9fans] 9vx is really excellent, link it on the bell-labs pages?

[matt]

I've had /bin/rc: not found twice from Qemu with clean shutdowns

I run it in with -snapshot now and do manual commits (or rather, I did 
before I went to back to dedicated hardware)


My drawterm also pops out of existence sometimes when I'm using Acme.
If I restart it and open the same file, the same thing happens.
If I open a difference file for a while and go back it works fine.

I can't fathom how to reproduce it so I've never reported it and hope it 
is somehow Linux' fault. It also crashes with an assert in X11 code one 
in ten times at startup [but not when you do while() drawterm ...  
sleep 1] (tip don't do that if you like your X session as I just found 
out !)




On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 07:45:17 -0700
David Leimbach leim...@gmail.com wrote:

 


I think it's officially a port of Plan 9's kernel to the vx32 stuff, so it's
not precisely the same as running a Plan 9 box natively, or in another
emulator, but it is indeed quite a feat, and close enough that most people
won't notice.
Personally, I'd love to be able to completely replace drawterm with 9vx, but
for some reason I still have a little trouble with that setup (in fact I've
not finished setting up my CPUFSAUTH server yet, so really I'm the reason
for that).
   



Running 9vx instances as Plan 9 terminals fits better with the Plan 9
way than running Drawterm, aye.  :) I'd like to but I use Rio's hold
feature for making quick notes all the time, notes which I need to
have around for a few days.  I don't think I'll be using 9vx for
terminal work until at least 6 months after I hear the last word about
it crashing.

Now 9vx for CPU work; that's another matter.  That could very well
work better for me than my present QEmu-based CPU server, perhaps with
a QEmu-based file server.  OTOH I'd still need a QEmu-based terminal
server sort of wierd thing to use with drawterm, which leaves me
pondering the port assignments if not the overall logic of the
setup  Hmm!  :)

Anyway, I think 9vx is a great thing too, despite the occasional
crash.  As someone posted a week or two ago it even works well for
testing many kernel changes, having minimal boot-up time.  As to
changing the Plan 9 homepage, that may be a difficult matter.  The
wiki seems largely kept up to date, but the homepage and recommended
reading not so much.

 


Another interesting project would be an Inferno based drawterm :-)... but
I'd be lying if I said I had any time for that kind of fun.
   



 

Re: [9fans] 9vx is really excellent, link it on the bell-labs pages?

[matt]

I've had /bin/rc: not found twice from Qemu with clean shutdowns


I've also *just* had the disk go bad during the install to a qcow2 disk, 
at 90%+ too :(


(or at least I think it went bad, I had lots of /n/newfs not found based 
errors)


I started over with a raw disk instead

[9fans] more on the history of recursion

[matt]

http://www.paulgraham.com/mcilroy.html

Re: [9fans] bluetooth

[matt]

you could just set the mtime to the time of the last successful 
operation on that device



What do you mean exactly by sees? ...
 


all devices that are listening on inquiry scan channels and respond to
inquiry requests.
   



It looks like your requirement might be satisfied by one or
the other of these things in the /net/bt/devices record:

- a discoverable (ie responded to most recent inquiry) flag
- a timestamp for last inquiry response received (1 second resolution?)

I'm reluctant to remove devices altogether when they don't
respond to inquiry, because it may still be possible to
connect to a non-discoverable device by paging its address.


 

Re: [9fans] Petabytes on a budget: JBODs + Linux + JFS

[matt]

storage vendors have a credibility problem.  i think the big
storage vendors, as referenced in the op, sell you on many
things you don't need for much more than one has to spend.
 


I went to a product demo from http://www.isilon.com/

They make a filesystem that spans multiple machines. They split the data 
into 128k blocks and then duplicate store them across your RAIDs. They 
claim over 80% utilisation rather than the more usual 50% of mirroring


http://www.isilon.com/products/OneFS.php

I'm no expert but after reading a bit of Shannon when I got back I found 
it hard to believe their claims but they have great market penetration 
because you just stick another multi Tb server in the rack and it adds 
itself to the array.


All I kept thinking was you want $100k for 25tb of aoe and cwfs, get 
out of it!

Re: [9fans] awk help; not plan9 matter

[matt]

sed 's/^([^ ]+ +)([^ ]+)/\1HELL/'


Hello,

simple task.
I want to change the 2nd field on each line of a file, but preserve
the spacing of the lines.

If I do
 awk '{$2=hell; print}' file
the field gets changed, but all the spacing of the lines is gone; i.e.
any space is now just ' ' like this:
1  3 4   8
changes to
1 hell 4 8
while I need
1  hell 4   8.

Any help?
Thanks
Ruda

 

Re: [9fans] awk help; not plan9 matter

[matt]

awk '{a=$2; sub(a, hell); print}' file

also works if it contains no regex special chars 


this seems to do the trick otherwise

awk ' { p=substr($0, index($0,  )); split(p, a, [^ ]); sub(/ +[^ ]+/, , p); print 
$1 a[1] hell p} '



Rudolf Sykora wrote:


Hello,

simple task.
I want to change the 2nd field on each line of a file, but preserve
the spacing of the lines.

If I do
 awk '{$2=hell; print}' file
the field gets changed, but all the spacing of the lines is gone; i.e.
any space is now just ' ' like this:
1  3 4   8
changes to
1 hell 4 8
while I need
1  hell 4   8.

Any help?
Thanks
Ruda

 

Re: [9fans] fun quote

[matt]

look who's trolling now :)


i don't know how ingo managed to put his
finger on so many reasons i enjoy plan 9
by counterexample.

Linux is a 18+ years old kernel, there's not that
many easy projects left in it anymore :-/ Core kernel
features that look basic and which are not in Linux
yet often turn out to be not that simple.
-- Ingo Molnar

- erik

 

Re: [9fans] Installer error (not supposed to happen)

[Matt Adams]

   Any suggestions or solutions would be greatly appreciated.  I'd love
   to get Plan 9 installed on my computer.  Indicentally the same Plan 9
   ISO installs just fine on another computer that I have: that computer
   only has one hard drive.
  
  remove one hard drive.  add hard drive back after install?

So I disabled the second BIOS drive and began to reinstall via the
atom ISO that you provided.

About half way through I got the urge to try the official ISO image
that I'd downloaded a few days earlier.  

Low and behold it works like a charm.  Plan 9 only sees the first hard
drive when booting but once the kernel is loaded both hard drives are
visible and available for use.

I didn't actually retry the atom ISO but I imagine that this would fix
its problem as well.

I thought you might be interested to know this.


Matt

Re: [9fans] Installer error (not supposed to happen)

[matt]

Is there anything I can do to get around this or a possible fix to
test?  

run that portion of the installer manually, and don't perform the test, 
they are only shell scripts


if you have a plan9 already, you can roll your own installer

my efforts documented here

http://maht0x0r.blogspot.com/2007/11/roll-your-own-plan9-iso.html
http://maht0x0r.blogspot.com/2007/10/roll-your-own-plan-9.html

Re: [9fans] Installer error (not supposed to happen)

[Matt Adams]

   As soon as I put a wildcard into the test string, e.g.,
  
  Yes,
  
   test -f /dev/sdC0/plan9 /dev/sdC1/plan9
  
  is an invalid command.  Only one argument is expected.
  
  You're going to have to pick one of the two arguments.

I guess the crux of the matter is that I cannot install Plan 9 on my
computer due to the install scripts barfing when they evaluate 

test -f /dev/sd*/plan9*

Is there anything I can do to get around this or a possible fix to
test?  Eric mentions that he doesn't have this problem on his
computer.  FWIW, my an md5sum of /bin/test gives
8edc427379a1d7414c351d38d217ef17.

Any suggestions or solutions would be greatly appreciated.  I'd love
to get Plan 9 installed on my computer.  Indicentally the same Plan 9
ISO installs just fine on another computer that I have: that computer
only has one hard drive.


Thanks,

Matt

Re: [9fans] Installer error (not supposed to happen)

[Matt Adams]

   % test -f /dev/sdC1/plan9   # works, I think
   % test -f /dev/sd*/plan9*   
   test: unexpected operator/operand: /dev/sdC1/plan9
  
  interesting.  i tested that here and got no errors.
  
  and what is the output of
   test -f /dev/sd*/plan9*
  on my machine, i cannot get test to complain
  regardless of the arguments i give it.  

Indicentally test gives no errors on another machine which has only
one hard drive.

The bug must only be a problem where /dev/sd*/plan9* actually matches
more than once.


Matt
-- 
PO Box 393 Wabasca, AB T0G 2K0 780-891-3282 mad...@phantomware.ca

Re: [9fans] Installer error (not supposed to happen)

[Matt Adams]

   % test -f /dev/sdC1/plan9   # works, I think
   % test -f /dev/sd*/plan9*   
   test: unexpected operator/operand: /dev/sdC1/plan9
  
  interesting.  i tested that here and got no errors.
  
  and what is the output of
   test -f /dev/sd*/plan9*

test: unexpected operator/operand: /dev/sdC1/plan9

  on my machine, i cannot get test to complain
  regardless of the arguments i give it.  

Perhaps we have different versions of test?  An md5sum of /bin/test
gives

8edc427379a1d7414c351d38d217ef17


Matt

Re: [9fans] Installer error (not supposed to happen)

[Matt Adams]

  i don't think so.  i tested that before
  i asked the original question.  what does this
   x=/dev/sd*/plan9*
   whatis x

x=(/dev/sdC0/plan9 /dev/sdC1/plan9)

   ls -q /dev/sd*/plan9*

(04300016 1 00) /dev/sdC0/plan9
(04301016 1 00) /dev/sdC1/plan9

Also:

% test -f /dev/sdC0/plan9   # produces no errors
% test -f /dev/sdC1/plan9   # produces no errors

As soon as I put a wildcard into the test string, e.g.,

% test -f /dev/sd*/plan9
test: unexpected operator/operand: /dev/sdC1/plan9


Hope this helps - thanks!

Matt

[9fans] Installer error (not supposed to happen)

[Matt Adams]

Folks:

Using the Plan 9 ISO provided by Erik Quanstrom I was able to get Plan
9 to boot and detect my hard drives.  So far so good.

Once in the installer I selected fossil+venti and proceeded to run
fdisk on sdC0 to create one large Plan 9 partition.  No problems.

After running fdisk on sdC1 I see the following error message when I
am returned to the installer menu:

Preparing menu...test: unexpected operator/operand: /dev/sdC1/plan9

At the bottom of the screen was:

   hey you finished everything! not supposed to happen

After a while these messages repeat themselves.

Subsequent attempts to run the installer result in the same error
immediately after entering the windowing system.  I can't seem to do
anything else or break out of the installer script.

Any suggestions on what I can do next would be greatly appreciated!
I'm stuck here and would really like to get Plan 9 installed.


Thanks!

Matt

Re: [9fans] Disks not detected while installing Plan 9 on Dell OptiPlex GX1

[Matt Adams]

  would you be willing to try
   ftp://ftp.quanstro.net/other/9atom.iso.bz2

Okay, that works.  9atom.iso found both of my hard drives.

I now see the following drives detected when I get to the partdisk
step of the install process:

sdC0 - ST3160821A
 p1 0 8 (8 cylinders, 62.75MB) type 253
 p2 8 19457 (19449 cylinders, 148.98GB) type 253

sdC1 - ST3160821A
 p1 0 8 (8 cylinders, 62.75MB) type 253
 p2 8 19457 (19449 cylinders, 148.98GB) type 253


What is the difference between 9atom and the Plan 9 ISO I downloaded
from the official website?

  could you send me (offlist) the output of dmesg after having
  booted debian.  i don't see any reason your drives shouldn't
  be recognized, but i could be missing something.

Will do, thanks.


Matt

Re: [9fans] Installer error (not supposed to happen)

[Matt Adams]

  if you can't get back on track by forcing the step
  by just typing it at the prompt

I can't seem to do that; the installer doesn't give me a prompt after
the configfs step.

  the easiest trick might be something like this at the installer
  prompt:
  
   !rc
   # cp /bin/test /tmp/builtintest
   # {echo '#!/bin/rc' 
   echo '/tmp/builtintest $* || 
   echo [1=2] failed test args: $*}/tmp/test
   # chmod a+x /tmp/test
   # bind /tmp/test /bin/test

I had to add a quote after ...failed test args: $* to get this to work
but it seems to have done the trick and gives me a little more info.

  this will at the least tell us what the full arguments
  to test were.  and maybe give you some ideas on what
  to do next.

So instead of unexpected operator/operand I get the following:

failed test args: -f /dev/sd*/9fat
failed test args: -f /dev/sd*/fossil*
failed test args: -f /dev/sd*/arenas
failed test args: -f /dev/sd*/isect

I get the same results regardless of which file system types I select.


Thanks,

Matt

[9fans] Disks not detected while installing Plan 9 on Dell OptiPlex GX1

[Matt Adams]

Hi folks:

I have an older Dell OptiPlex GX1 (600MHz PIII) that I am having
trouble installing Plan 9 onto.  I am using a bootable CD ISO of Plan
9 that I downloaded last night so things should be current.

The system has two 130GB hard drives installed.  Everything works
under Debian Linux.  

*** Plan 9 is not able to detect the hard drives. *** 

Here is what I see during the boot process:

PBS1...
Plan 9 from Bell Labs
ELCR: 0C20
islba: drive 0x80 extensions version 33.0 cx 0.5
extgetsize: drive 0x80 info flags 0x1
bios0: drive 0x80: 137,438,952,960 bytes, type 3
islba: drive 0x81 extensions version 33.0 cx 0.5
extgetsize: drive 0x81 info flags 0x1
bios0: drive 0x81: 137,438,952,960 bytes, type 3
reading drive 0x80 offset 0 into seg:off 600:0...
biosdiskcall: int 13 op 0x42 drive 0x80 failed, ah error code 0x80
sectread: bios failed to read 512 @ sector 0 of 0x80
probing cd...dev A0 port 170 config 85C0 capabilities 0F00 mwdma 0407
found partition sdD0!cdboot; 52978+1440
reading drive 0x80 offset 0 into seg:off 600:0...
biosdiskcall: int 13 op 0x42 drive 0x80 failed, ah error code 0x80
sectread: bios failed to read 512 @ sector 0 of 0x80
reading drive 0x80 offset 1 into seg:off 600:0...
biosdiskcall: int 13 op 0x42 drive 0x80 failed, ah error code 0x80
sectread: bios failed to read 512 @ sector 1 of 0x80

During the partdisk step of the install process Plan 9 only sees sdD0
as possible disks.

I have tried saying yes and no to DMA for disk drives before the
windowing system starts up and there is no difference in detected
disks.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I might to do overcome
this problem?  I would appreciate anything here as I am flying pretty
blind.

I am running the most recent version of the BIOS (A10) from Dell.


Thanks in advance,

Matt

Re: [9fans] Petabytes on a budget: JBODs + Linux + JFS

[matt]

I concur with Erik, I specced out a 20tb server earlier this year, 
matching the throughputs hits you in the wallet.


I'm amazed they are using pci-e 1x , it's kind of naive

see what the guy from sun says

http://www.c0t0d0s0.org/archives/5899-Some-perspective-to-this-DIY-storage-server-mentioned-at-Storagemojo.html

Re: [9fans] Blocks in C

[matt]

I could be wrong, but I feel like you're not really interested in 
entertaining that this idea could be useful, but more interested in 
shooting it down.  That's fine, people do that all the time.  People 
are *constantly* saying Plan 9 is a huge waste of time too.  And if 
you count the number of actual users, they're probably right.



using plan9 as a stick to beat one of us with hurts us all

Re: [9fans] Interested in improving networking in Plan 9

[matt]

Oh I don't know Shoehorning a DB interface into a FS
interface doesn't feel right but stranger things have
happened.

 

I've done it a few ways. echo commit  /n/db/0/ctl is kind of where one 
ends up


for my limbo postgres module I never got round to the fs part. i just 
wrap the sql bits in their own adt

Re: [9fans] scheme plan 9

[matt]

number of schemes  4

http://www.plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/Contrib_index/

maybe one is what you are looking for

there is also a gsoc project, search 9fans for more details 


http://9fans.net/archive/



xiangyu wrote:


HI,everyone:
  Has anyone ported scheme into plan 9 ? or is there some scheme
implementation  existence on plan 9 ? i want to learn SCIP
recently ,but i can't find a scheme in plan 9 . so  ask ..
looking forward for the answer as soon as possible...
thanks first.

 

Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso

[matt]

the best way to remove 9load is to make Plan 9 grub-bootable.
 


I don't know much about this subject but I already boot Plan9 using grub.

You mean something more specific than chainloading I presume.

Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso

[matt]

Venkatesh Srinivas wrote:


On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 4:54 AM, hiro23h...@googlemail.com wrote:
 


perhaps we should try to boot plan 9 from a linux kernel? Sounds great to me...

this probably makes me a troll...

   



I hear ron minnich did that with his lguest port. Does that make him a troll?

-- vs

 


yes, he got us interested in something vicariously and then cast it aside :)

What you gonna do when MS knocks on the door for their FAT patent 
license fee


http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/02/microsoft-sues-tomtom-over-fat-patents-in-linux-based-device.ars 



though maybe the inability to do fat32 will save you.

Editing plan9.ini on dos has saved me more than once, but back when I 
was using a floppy (a BSDi labelled one at that)  and its small size has 
also hurt me before now too.


I like the sound of the sector 1 idea, I'm sure making a tool to r/w it 
in Linux / whatever can't be hard.

Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso

[matt]

erik quanstrom wrote:


i love it.  we have complaining that fat doesn't do more
than 8.3 and trolling that there's a patent liability for
doing more than 8.3 within 24 hrs.
 


thanks but I'm not trolling, not complaining


just to be clear.  fat itself is not patented.  just some
particular aspects of a 8.3 workaround.

 


though maybe the inability to do fat32 will save you.
   



dossrv and 9load both read fat32.
 


I was refering to format not dossrv

 BUGS
 Format can create FAT12 and FAT16 file systems, but not
 FAT32 file systems.  The boot block can only read from FAT12
 and FAT16 file systems.

 

I like the sound of the sector 1 idea, I'm sure making a tool to r/w it 
in Linux / whatever can't be hard.
   



i think that's the point of using fat.  no tools required.
 

No tools except a second OS installed on your machine / one you can plug 
your disk in to



you're already in a pickle if you've gotten to this point.
consider the acer inspire machine this week that 
 

but as you say here, if you're having trouble, you need something to 
help you. The great help you've been giving people here was via iso files


Anyway, there are good arguments on both sides. There's only one way to 
solve this :


FIGHT

[9fans] walk updated, earth shatters

[matt]

/n/sources/contrib/maht/walk.c

I adapted Dan's walk to add some options

-t : print trailing slashes on directories
-p : only print path (directory) names  # -d was taken
-f : only print file names

If -p and -f are given, all output is supressed but the walk still happens.

Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso

[matt]

To further report the machine seems to be running after installation 
quite snappily though I seem to have messed something up and get a 
lot of messages about failed venti writes, due to a lack of a connection.






venti=/dev/sdC0/venti
or
venti=#S/sdC0/venti

in plan9.ini
not sure which is best, I have the former and it works but the latter 
was already in my plan9.ini and that didn't work but that might be 
something else and I've never experimented after it worked :)

Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso

[matt]

Tim Newsham wrote:



You could just dd or rawrite from windows, as well.


iirc you need to be an administrator and can turn on raw disk access, 
for which you get v. scary dialog boxes warning you not to do it


that was on xp, I expect newer trash will be the same / worse

Re: [9fans] walk updated, earth shatters

[matt]

erik quanstrom wrote:


sounds familiar.  i haven't needed an analog
to your -f option yet since the most common
use is
grep -n pattern `{find /sys/src/|grep '\.[chys]$'

 


I changed it to do this :

chmod 550 `{walk -p}
chmod -w `{walk -f}

Re: [9fans] pipefrom fun

[matt]

why not use /mail/lib/names.local for the first example?



good point, upon my brief look the answer would be, although I can 
contrive upon boot to use a different file, in the general case, users 
can't edit it.



i haven't read the script, though.

; ls -l  /n/sources/contrib/maht/rc/pipefrom
--rwx--x--x M 675 maht sys 1107 Aug 20 20:50 /n/sources/contrib/maht/rc/pipefrom
 


I fixed that, oops thanks


one thing i've thought would be useful since people mail from
many places with many names is a translation from a set of from
addresses to a mailbox name so that, e.g. the ned f command doesn't
end up creating a bunch of folders for the same person.
 


I'll consider that when I get round to pipeto

Re: [9fans] pipefrom fun

[matt]

Russ Cox wrote:


pipefrom is too late to rewrite outgoing addresses,
because marshal has already written the To:


I submitted a patch for marshal to do the From: part but was told I 
should use pipefrom instead. I'll stick a sed in the send see how that 
works out :



line with the local address.  Your post says
   To: 9f...@steponnopets.net
 


dammit, I obviously had missed that when I was testing it


You can create /mail/box/$user/names
to get aliases that won't go out.

http://9fans.net/archive/2004/01/530
http://9fans.net/archive/2004/01/533
http://9fans.net/archive/2004/04/99  # ,s/%/@/g I think


 


Thanks I'll give those a read

Re: [9fans] Plan 9 via QEMU

[matt]

you can configure Qemu to use the host console as the guest serial console

Re: [9fans] audio standards -- too many to choose from

[matt]

Flogging this horse still

But as I got my old Edirol UA-3d working with plan9 again (i.e. I 
plugged it in!) I thought I'd see what the USB audio landscape looked 
like, my it has changed.


Has anyone tried one of these with plan9

http://www.roland.com/products/en/UA-101/

It also does MIDI which is something else I'd like to play with.

Re: [9fans] HP: Printing with the Illiterate

[matt]

I  don't trust multifunction devices anyway.

^ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_V_Shaney#cite_note-1 I hope that 
there are sour apples in every bushel.


oops, wrong one

/Those days are dead and gone and the eulogy was delivered by Perl./


I did a Markov of Uriel, that was amusing but I didn't save them.

Re: [9fans] Inserting Special Characters into Acme

[matt]

^M inserts a c/r

see /lib/keyboard for the other text entries

the second column is the key sequence, the first uses the modifier key 
(left Alt on my pc)


so, for instance, æ is alt-a e
alt-shift-o c is ©
alt-d g is †



Is there some way to insert special characters into Acme text windows? 
Specifically, I want to do some file editing and put CRLF line endings 
into some files, or around specific lines. Is there a way to do this 
regularly, just typing, I'd also like to know a bulk or Edit command 
to do it, also.


Aaron W. Hsu

[9fans] Blogger tools

[matt]

When the time came to choose a blogging platform I chose blogger because 
a few other 9fans had done the same and I thought great, blogger's UI 
is annoying enough that someone will make some plan9 tools


Two years later, that someone is me.

A bunch of shell scripts that wrap around some python, and my optional 
shell script driven fs


/n/sources/contrib/maht/blogger

You'll need bichued's python which is now a contrib the day after I 
worked out how to install it from source but the product of  that was 
wanting better blogging tools :


Matt

[9fans] Matrox DualHead2Go

[matt]

Hi, I don't quite know what I'm asking, I'm just fishing for responses :)

I got a Matrox DualHead2Go which splits a vga signal across multiple 
monitors. Atm. I have it driving two screen with a duplicated image but 
if you supply it one of these modes :


edid 2048x76...@60hz
   clock=113.75
   shb=2136 ehb=2200 ht=2352
   vrs=771 vre=786 vt=806
   hsync=+ vsync=-
edid 2048x76...@75hz
   clock=137.81
   shb=2120 ehb=2176 ht=2296
   vrs=769 vre=784 vt=800
   hsync=+ vsync=-
edid 2560x102...@60hz
   clock=189.82
   shb=2608 ehb=2720 ht=2968
   vrs=1025 vre=1037 vt=1066
   hsync=+ vsync=-
edid 2048x76...@85hz
   clock=165.39
   shb=2160 ehb=2232 ht=2408
   vrs=769 vre=781 vt=808
   hsync=- vsync=-


It will become two distinct screens, half on each monitor.
You can see form my Vesa mode dump that we don't have that in the list. 
My nvidia card (8600 GT dual SLI) is aslo unrecognised by the vganvida.c

pci | grep vid
3.0.0:vid  03.00.00 10de/0402  10 0:f900 16777216 1:c00c 
268435456 2: 16 3:f604 33554432 4: 16 5:cc01 128
4.0.0:vid  03.00.00 10de/0402  10 0:fd00 16777216 1:d00c 
268435456 2: 16 3:fa04 33554432 4: 16 5:dc01 128





edid mfrMTX
edid serialstr 
edid name  
edid product768

edid serial 1363750341
edid version1.3
edid mfrdate2007.44
edid size (cm)  41x31
edid gamma  2.21
edid vert (Hz)  0-0
edid horz (Hz)  0-0
edid pclkmax0
edid flags   standby suspend activeoff
edid 640x48...@60hz
   clock=25.175
   shb=648 ehb=792 ht=800
   vrs=490 vre=492 vt=525
   hsync=- vsync=-
edid 640x48...@75hz
   clock=31.5
   shb=640 ehb=840 ht=840
   vrs=481 vre=484 vt=500
   hsync=- vsync=-
edid 800x60...@60hz
   clock=40
   shb=800 ehb=1056 ht=1056
   vrs=601 vre=605 vt=628
   hsync=+ vsync=+
edid 800x60...@75hz
   clock=49.5
   shb=800 ehb=1056 ht=1056
   vrs=601 vre=604 vt=625
   hsync=+ vsync=+
edid 1024x76...@60hz
   clock=65
   shb=1024 ehb=1344 ht=1344
   vrs=771 vre=777 vt=806
   hsync=- vsync=-
edid 1024x76...@75hz
   clock=78.75
   shb=1024 ehb=1312 ht=1312
   vrs=769 vre=772 vt=800
   hsync=+ vsync=+
edid 1280x102...@75hz
   clock=135
   shb=1280 ehb=1688 ht=1688
   vrs=1025 vre=1028 vt=1066
   hsync=+ vsync=+
edid 2048x76...@60hz
   clock=113.75
   shb=2136 ehb=2200 ht=2352
   vrs=771 vre=786 vt=806
   hsync=+ vsync=-
edid 2048x76...@75hz
   clock=137.81
   shb=2120 ehb=2176 ht=2296
   vrs=769 vre=784 vt=800
   hsync=+ vsync=-
edid 2560x102...@60hz
   clock=189.82
   shb=2608 ehb=2720 ht=2968
   vrs=1025 vre=1037 vt=1066
   hsync=+ vsync=-
edid 2048x76...@85hz
   clock=165.39
   shb=2160 ehb=2232 ht=2408
   vrs=769 vre=781 vt=808
   hsync=- vsync=-


vesa flagUlinear|Hlinear
vesa sigVESA 3.0
vesa oemNVIDIA 96.132
vesa vendor NVIDIA Corporation
vesa product   
vesa rev   
vesa cap 8-bit-dac

vesa mem14680064
vesa mode   0x100 640x400x8 m8 packed
vesa mode   0x101 640x480x8 m8 packed
vesa mode   0x102 800x600x4 m4 planar
vesa mode   0x103 800x600x8 m8 packed
vesa mode   0x104 1024x768x4 m4 planar
vesa mode   0x105 1024x768x8 m8 packed
vesa mode   0x106 1280x1024x4 m4 planar
vesa mode   0x107 1280x1024x8 m8 packed
vesa mode   0x10e 320x200x16 r5g6b5 direct
vesa mode   0x10f 320x200x32 x8r8g8b8 direct
vesa mode   0x111 640x480x16 r5g6b5 direct
vesa mode   0x112 640x480x32 x8r8g8b8 direct
vesa mode   0x114 800x600x16 r5g6b5 direct
vesa mode   0x115 800x600x32 x8r8g8b8 direct
vesa mode   0x117 1024x768x16 r5g6b5 direct
vesa mode   0x118 1024x768x32 x8r8g8b8 direct
vesa mode   0x11a 1280x1024x16 r5g6b5 direct
vesa mode   0x11b 1280x1024x32 x8r8g8b8 direct
vesa mode   0x130 320x200x8 m8 packed
vesa mode   0x131 320x400x8 m8 packed
vesa mode   0x132 320x400x16 r5g6b5 direct
vesa mode   0x133 320x400x32 x8r8g8b8 direct
vesa mode   0x134 320x240x8 m8 packed
vesa mode   0x135 320x240x16 r5g6b5 direct
vesa mode   0x136 320x240x32 x8r8g8b8 direct
vesa mode   0x13d 640x400x16 r5g6b5 direct
vesa mode   0x13e 640x400x32 x8r8g8b8 direct
vesa mode   0x145 1600x1200x8 m8 packed
vesa mode   0x146 1600x1200x16 r5g6b5 direct
vesa mode   0x14a 1600x1200x32 x8r8g8b8 direct
vesa mode   0x147 1400x1050x8 m8 packed (unoffered)
vesa mode   0x148 1400x1050x16 r5g6b5 direct (unoffered)
vesa mode   0x149 1400x1050x32 x8r8g8b8 direct (unoffered)
vesa mode   0x152 2048x1536x32 x8r8g8b8 direct 

Re: [9fans] laptop install woes

[matt]

This is pretty much a show-stopper for me.  I guess it's time to find a new
laptop with supported hardware.

 


or a usb ethernet device

Re: [9fans] audio standards -- too many to choose from

[matt]

Charles Forsyth wrote:


Hardware 24...@192khz.
   



the human ear can't hear as high as that
still, it ought to please any passing bat!
Hi-fi, hi-fi, ...

 

Personally I can't hear over 9119 hz (audio), but I might want to record 
1s of 192Khz (samples I presume) and stretch them by 100x to 9600 hz 
(audio) and have a (possibly) interesting time listening to the results 
without interpolating.

Re: [9fans] Thrift RPC

[matt]

I have not been able to convince coworkers that filesystem namespaces
are the way to go.  I think they think it is too hard.

*shrug*  you can lead a horse...
   



Funny, the problem I usually have is that people think file systems
are *too simple*, oh, no data types other than *byte stream* and
*drectory*, and no type checking! We are all going to die!

People seem to have trouble believing something simple can do a job
that they have convinced themselves needs to be very complicated.

uriel

 


The point being that for most people, writing the FS is the hard part no ?

The java 9p server was interesting in that it served functions as 
files. I think we need a few more thinga like that where we can begin to 
stop thinking about the 9p part when designing a service

Re: [9fans] [limbo] I tried keyring, but it was the wrong number

[matt]

Charles Forsyth wrote:


with a zero modulus (which suggests the key wasn't unpacked correctly).
   



my deliberate mistake (it won't be using rsaencrypt but rsadecrypt)
happened to highlight the actual problem, which is that strtosk
shouldn't accept a string that looks to me (if not to it)
like a public key not a private/secret one,
producing something with plenty of zero mpint potential divisors.
b00f!

 


Yes, that was exactly it. I've changed the key generator to use default
names. How I mixed them up I don't know, but I did.

[9fans] Someone let the domain go

[matt]

http://www.lucent-inferno.com/


er nsfw btw !

Re: [9fans] what features would you like in a shell?

[matt]

If somebody wants to do such a thing (which all we agree is a bad
idea) you need no new features in the shell, eg:
while() firefox
   

that doesn't permit a clean exit, this does :

fn ff {firefox || ff} ; ff;

Re: [9fans] what features would you like in a shell?

[matt]

you think the idea of reloading a crashed program is not a good one?
for example, what if it's a web browser?




crash reload crash reload crash reload agghh make it stop

btw. Windows uses this mechanism for running Explorer, as a stop gap to 
fixing it they just made it auto-respawn.



either way I think it's a unrequired feature for a shell, a user program 
specifically for monitoring process state would be preferred, should it 
be required.

Re: [9fans] what features would you like in a shell?

[matt]

I've not run into many actual problems with rc so it's pretty near 
perfect :


Though as Erik said - regex matches to compliment ~ matching

hash maps : a['name'] = 'glenda'
arithmetic - though with the 80/20 rule, I don't think the bloat is worth it

I tried a write a couple of other ideas but each time it was better to 
spawn awk or some other better tool for the job!

[9fans] USB mouse doesn't like being unplugged

[Matt Adams]

Folks:

I am using usb/kb to provide support for my keyboard  mouse which are
plugged into a KVM.  They both seem to work well enough.  I still have
to use a PS/2 keyboard to input the mount point  user but at least
things start working when rio is available and I can do the usb/kb
thing.

My problem is when I switch to another machine and then come back to
my plan9 installation: the keyboard keeps working but the mouse stops
responding to all input.

I also get the following error when this happens:

usb/kb: mouse: read: usb endpoint stalled

Does anyone know how if it is possible to make the mouse portion of
usb/kb somewhat more resiliant to disappearing/reappearing?  I would
have hoped that this were possible seeing as how it's USB.


Thanks in advance,

Matt
-- 
If builders built buildings the way programmers write programs, then 
the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization. - anon

Re: [9fans] USB mouse doesn't like being unplugged

[Matt Adams]

erik quanstrom writes:

  you can kill off usb/usbd and usb/kb and restart
  them and that usually works.

Oddly enough the keyboard seems to work after the switch (most of the
time) but the mouse never does.  Use of usb/kb -k and usb/usbmouse
(and successive restarts of usb/usbmouse) seems to do the trick most
of the time but it is ungainly to say the least.

Would you be willing to provide an example of a script that I could
start from profile (or whatever is reasonable) - something that would
check for a stuck usb device and restart the appropriate components?
I would give this a shot myself but I am newbie enough that I think it
would take me a long time to get to that point.

In any case, thanks for your assistance -


Matt
-- 
If builders built buildings the way programmers write programs, then 
the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization. - anon

Re: [9fans] Regarding venti block size

[matt]

anooop.ano...@gmail.com wrote:

Hello All,

I want to store some big files on venti.  size range around 200MB.  Is
there any way to do this?

This is what I get when I try to store files of size around 300KB :
write: input too big: max block size is 57344

I was wondering may be if increase the block size in arena partition
this can be done. so I tried to format arena with block size 200M but
it gave the error below.

an...@allatoona:/usr/local/plan9/bin$ venti/fmtarenas -a 3800M -b
200M  arenas0. /dev/sda6 
[1] 32604
an...@allatoona:/usr/local/plan9/bin$ block size too large, max 65536
  


why are you choosing such a big block size ?

Blocks size and file size are related such that ceil(filesize / 
blocksize) = numberofblocks


The larger the blocksize the less likely you are of coalescing any (or 
that's what my intuition says). Sure, there's a tradeoff but the 
research has been done already and  64k blocks looks to have been found 
appropriate.



If your file is 300Kb and your blocksize 200M then every distinct 300kB 
file will occupy 200Mb of actual disk.



Also, 200Mb is not a big file!!

[9fans] Android / G1

[matt]

Anyone got an Android / G1 phone?

I'm about to and wondered if there was any feedback, esp. re: Plan 9 ideas?

matt

Re: [9fans] Regarding venti block size

[matt]

This is what I am planning to do.


  

I have a few wheel designs here in my basement too,

Re: [9fans] Regarding venti block size

[matt]

I don't get why you're dicking around with block sizes but I guess it's 
just learning :)


If these functions don't allow you to create and read/write files in a 
venti then my current project is screwed - it compiles but I haven't 
started testing it!


venti-file(2)
venti-cache(2)

vtdial()
vtcachealloc()
vtfileopenroot()
vtfilecreateroot()
vtfilecreate()
vtfileopen()
vtfilegetentry()
vtfileread()
vtfilewrite()
vthangup()
vtfreeconn()
  

[9fans] Venti by another name

[matt]

I came across this today

http://offsystem.sourceforge.net/

It's a P2P system where data blocks are traded not files.

A file becomes a set of blocks and if requested, anyone who has the 
block can supply the data, even if they don't possess the same file.


In that way no-one is sharing copyrighted material in the large, just 
coincedent blocks.


I've not pushed any mpeg data into venti, though I have idly wondered if 
there are any disk saving.

Re: [9fans] Web interface to '/n/sources/contrib' gone??

[matt]

iirc sources is down because there was some heavy scraping going on that 
was maxing out the CPU at the labs, see 9fans passim


I've found it frustrating, but mostly when trying to show off mad Glenda 
skillz on reddit / slashdot.


The wiki points to a contrib mirror on 9grid.de that goes to a spam page
and another to a 404 - http://sirviente.9grid.es/sources/
and another to a dead domain - http://plan9.kix.in/mirror/sources/


I wonder if

http://www.plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/Setting_up_a_sources_mirror/

still works :

Re: [9fans] Web interface to '/n/sources/contrib' gone??

[matt]

i may be wrong here but http://9fans.net/archive/2008/10/99 may be
suggesting why these problems are occuring.
if i'm correct, i feel compeled to say: what's the problem with using
old threads that discuss the same issue?

iru
  
while culling my last set of links I did notice that I got a few object 
not found, remote side hung up in httpd error message format, though it 
seems sporadic rather than ongoing (I can't reproduce it now!)


Thus a new saying If you want Plan9 you know where it's hidden!

Re: [9fans] nupas mk install bug

[matt]

/n/sources/contrib/quanstro/src/imap.c?
replace fs/imap.c with this file and recompile.
  


I found one in /n/sources/contrib/quanstro/imap.c and used that and it 
worked 99%


I got a panic (attached) but when I tried to reproduce it the message 
had gone. It was a notice from ebay but none of my other ebay notices 
would trigger it.


I big thank you.

I'll be using it daily from now on so I'll keep an eye on it.

matt
term% acid 1508
/proc/1508/text:386 plan 9 executable
/sys/lib/acid/port
/sys/lib/acid/386
acid: lstk()
abort()+0x0 /sys/src/libc/9sys/abort.c:6
_assert(s=0x3a9c3)+0x3a /sys/src/libc/port/_assert.c:12
parse(m=0xcbb38,mb=0x59ae0,addfrom=0x0,justmime=0x1)+0x83 
/usr/maht/nupas/fs/mbox.c:578
parseattachments(m=0x90750,mb=0x59ae0)+0xee /usr/maht/nupas/fs/mbox.c:443
p=0xe6b00
nm=0xcbb38
l=0x90850
i=0x0
x=0x90750
parsebody(m=0x90750,mb=0x59ae0)+0x1c0 /usr/maht/nupas/fs/mbox.c:553
l=0x15
s=0x988e8
nm=0x93dbc
parse(m=0x90750,mb=0x59ae0,addfrom=0x1,justmime=0x0)+0x66 
/usr/maht/nupas/fs/mbox.c:582
cachebody(mb=0x59ae0,m=0x90750)+0x1db /usr/maht/nupas/fs/cache.c:495
o=0x1000
fileinfo(mb=0x59ae0,m=0x90750,t=0x0,pp=0xdfffebbc)+0xe3 
/usr/maht/nupas/fs/fs.c:444
len=0x
p=0x935a8
e=0x4478
i=0x4478
mkstat(m=0x90750,mb=0x59ae0,d=0xdfffebf0,t=0x0)+0xfa /usr/maht/nupas/fs/fs.c:748
p=0x4341c
readmsgdir(f=0x93fd8,buf=0x511f8,blen=0x2000,off=0x0,cnt=0x2000)+0x44 
/usr/maht/nupas/fs/fs.c:1109
n=0x0
pos=0x0
d=0x0
i=0x0
msg=0x587dc
rread(f=0x93fd8)+0x191 /usr/maht/nupas/fs/fs.c:1173
off=0x0
cnt=0x2000
n=0x17
p=0x93fd8
t=0x13
io()+0x1c8 /usr/maht/nupas/fs/fs.c:1505
n=0x18
main(argv=0xdfffef7c,argc=0x0)+0x320 /usr/maht/nupas/fs/fs.c:395
mboxfile=0xdfffef95
nodflt=0x0
srvpost=0x0
v=0xdfffef74
_argc=0x66
_args=0x3e386
p=0x3
maildir=0x69616d2f
mbox=0x0
srvfile=0x0
_main+0x31 /sys/src/libc/386/main9.s:16
acid: 

[9fans] nupas mk install bug

[matt]

mk install
... snip ...
cp 8.out /386/bin/nupas/Mail
cp: can't create /386/bin/nupas/Mail: '/386/bin/nupas' does not exist


works ok when I access my Courier server but aborts on

nupas/fs/fs.c:157

when I access the imap version of http://fastmail.fm/

I've tried it on two mailboxes, it does this command

9x4 uid fetch 1:* (uid rfc822.size internaldate)

then fails parsing the repsonses

of the form

* 99 FETCH (UID 32768 INTERNALDATE  6-Feb-2009 08:52:33 -0500 
RFC822.SIZE 74193)



That's as far as I got :

Matt

[9fans] cd booting into network

[matt]

Hi,

after a while I worked out that I couldn't auth fully from the boot cd 
because it doesn't have /boot/factotum


I chose a pc kernel and made a new bootdisk

so, just for the record

http://maht0x0r.blogspot.com/2009/01/plan9-boot-cd.html

Re: [9fans] cheap, low-resolution terminal

[matt]

Eris Discordia wrote:
Late bloomers, eh? I wrote that... lemme see... more than two weeks 
ago and I get responses now?!


By the way, you have an utterly strange, yet totally fascinating, 
keyboard, matt. Why exactly does it have to be shaped like that? I 
mean, are you using a Maltron because you are an ergonomics buff or 
because you have to? 

Yeah, I 've been away, had 700+ 9fans mails to go through

I got that kb for the sake of exploring the world. I've not got to speed 
with it yet. Though I rather wish it was the left hand version because 
of Plan9 chording etc. - either that or train my left hand to mouse.

Re: [9fans] cheap, low-resolution terminal

[matt]

Eris Discordia wrote:
What'd you say if you had my keyboard? 

I'd say yay, she can't type any more of that goddam shite

j/k :

Re: [9fans] cheap, low-resolution terminal

[matt]

Eris Discordia wrote:

What'd you say if you had my keyboard? I



*and* what would you say if you had mine ?

http://www.proweb.co.uk/~matt/maltron.jpg