Re: [9fans] anyone put their venti on an SSD?
On Sat May 4 00:18:46 EDT 2013, cinap_len...@gmx.de wrote: cwfs copies the blocks from worm into the cache on read. so the working set is served from the ssd and the ram buffer cache. reading /n/dump would hit the mechanical disk tho. that's an option for ken's fs. i haven't found that it's fast enough because the latency to retrieve a block that's not in the cache is the latency for read(worm)+read(cachebkt)+ write(cache). if one keeps the cache small, the read of the cachebkt goes away. therefore it's best to keep cachesize wormsize. - erik
Re: [9fans] anyone put their venti on an SSD?
I had similar problems with OCZ. I ought to have observed that I bought the drive from Fry's as refurbished, which probably wasn't a good recommendation for a drive that was fairly new. Three strikes. Fate couldn't resist.
Re: [9fans] anyone put their venti on an SSD?
On Fri May 3 23:27:40 EDT 2013, sstall...@gmail.com wrote: I had originally used a Crucial 32GB SSD years ago and swapped to a 55GB OCZ enterprise drive (using sdahci). More recently I've moved my venti arenas over to plan9port and have switched over to using the entire SSD for fossil. So far this has been faster than running venti natively - though I still take a replica each night out of paranoia. there are many components to the performance here, but i can think of at least one simple issue. plan 9 loopback tcp can be pretty slow due to scheduling issues. (induced by the structure of tcp, not any issue with the scheduler.) my atom (which is slightly worse than a d525) gets ladd; nettest -l -n 1 tcp!192.168.0.136!39769 count 1; 8192 bytes in 2.649575 s @ 29.5 MB/s (0ms) so i would imagine that working out how to post a fd to srv would really help a lot. not to mention, taking some funk out of configuring the network on boot. :-) - erik
Re: [9fans] anyone put their venti on an SSD?
Makes sense. Moving to plan9port had more to do with making better use of the ReadyNAS in the rack than anything else. The performance was a nice if unexpected side-effect. On Friday, May 3, 2013, erik quanstrom wrote: On Fri May 3 23:27:40 EDT 2013, sstall...@gmail.com javascript:; wrote: I had originally used a Crucial 32GB SSD years ago and swapped to a 55GB OCZ enterprise drive (using sdahci). More recently I've moved my venti arenas over to plan9port and have switched over to using the entire SSD for fossil. So far this has been faster than running venti natively - though I still take a replica each night out of paranoia. there are many components to the performance here, but i can think of at least one simple issue. plan 9 loopback tcp can be pretty slow due to scheduling issues. (induced by the structure of tcp, not any issue with the scheduler.) my atom (which is slightly worse than a d525) gets ladd; nettest -l -n 1 tcp!192.168.0.136!39769 count 1; 8192 bytes in 2.649575 s @ 29.5 MB/s (0ms) so i would imagine that working out how to post a fd to srv would really help a lot. not to mention, taking some funk out of configuring the network on boot. :-) - erik
[9fans] anyone put their venti on an SSD?
what the subject says, anyone put their venti (those that use it) on a solid state disk? -Steve
Re: [9fans] anyone put their venti on an SSD?
I have not yet, but i've been meaning to play around some with different arrangements for different parts. Please let us know if you hear anything interesting. Anthony
Re: [9fans] anyone put their venti on an SSD?
I tried putting our index on a single OCZ SSD and it died during buildindex. The SSD was completely unresponsive thereafter, which is pretty appalling behaviour for a storage device. Having since sworn off OCZ, I would try again with a pair of Intel 330s in a RAID.
Re: [9fans] anyone put their venti on an SSD?
I tried putting venti on an ssd with similar results. Fossil, kenfs, and cwfs all worked fine on that drive though. I think it was one of the earlier Intels. On May 3, 2013, at 16:59, ge...@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: I tried putting our index on a single OCZ SSD and it died during buildindex. The SSD was completely unresponsive thereafter, which is pretty appalling behaviour for a storage device. Having since sworn off OCZ, I would try again with a pair of Intel 330s in a RAID.
Re: [9fans] anyone put their venti on an SSD?
i have 60GB intel ssd in my new fileserver holding the cwfs worm cache. no problems so far. but the machine is just up for two weeks. its an experiment. if it breaks i have spare sata drive that could replace it. the worm is on a mirror with traditional mechanical harddrives. cpu% cat '#S/sdC0/ctl' inquiry INTEL SSDSC2CT060A3 config 0040 capabilities 2F00 dma 00550040 dmactl 00550040 rwm 16 rwmctl 0 lba48always off model INTEL SSDSC2CT060A3 serial BTMP31010344060AGN firm300i featlba llba smart power nop ata8 sct geometry 117231408512 alignment 512 0 missirq 0 sloop 0 irq 2233361 2233358 bsy 0 0 nildrive3 part data 0 117231408 part plan9 63 117226305 part 9fat 63 204863 part nvram 204863 204864 part fscache 204871 67313735 -- cinap
Re: [9fans] anyone put their venti on an SSD?
On 3 May 2013 21:59, ge...@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: I tried putting our index on a single OCZ SSD and it died during buildindex. The SSD was completely unresponsive thereafter, which is pretty appalling behaviour for a storage device. I had similar problems with OCZ. I was only copying venti state (as raw partitions) from one drive to the ssd. I haven't tried again with other makes, mainly for lack of time.
Re: [9fans] anyone put their venti on an SSD?
On 2013-05-03, at 1:59 PM, ge...@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: I tried putting our index on a single OCZ SSD and it died during buildindex. The SSD was completely unresponsive thereafter, which is pretty appalling behaviour for a storage device. Having since sworn off OCZ, I would try again with a pair of Intel 330s in a RAID. A couple of months ago I tried cloning my existing fossil+venti to an OCZ Vertex 3. I did the partitioning and setup by hand and everything seemed to go just fine: the arenas copied and verified, fossil initialized, and I could run and mount the fossil from the SSD, but whenever I tried to boot from it it failed very early on with I/O error and that was that. I didn't have any spare time to mess around with it so I just stuck with the existing disk. I was running a really bastardized mix of old and new boot software, so it's quite possible I screwed up installing the correct MBR and boot loader. But it might also have been a problem with the BIOS or SATA controller on the motherboard -- it's a slightly ancient Supermicro Atom 1U, and it doesn't like SATA hard disks, either (it's currently talking to an IDE disk). I didn't have time to try 9atom. That said, the limited testing I did with the secondary fossil+venti showed it to be quite zippy, within the limitations of the surrounding motherboard hardware. Certainly it was noticeably faster than the hard disk for, e.g., mk all. --lyndon
Re: [9fans] anyone put their venti on an SSD?
We've had a lot of success with Intel SSDs, only problem is that they seem to be in short supply right now. We're also looking at Samsung SSDs, and they seem to be perhaps even better than the Intel SSDs. OCZs break often in my experience. 2013/5/3 cinap_len...@gmx.de: ocz seems to have a bad reputation. just googled intel ssd broken and you get tons of results from people with broken/dead ocz ssd's. -- cinap
Re: [9fans] anyone put their venti on an SSD?
I was running a really bastardized mix of old and new boot software, so it's quite possible I screwed up installing the correct MBR and boot loader. But it might also have been a problem with the BIOS or SATA controller on the motherboard -- it's a slightly ancient Supermicro Atom 1U, and it doesn't like SATA hard disks, either (it's currently talking to an IDE disk). I didn't have time to try 9atom. that sort of machine is 9atom's original raison d'être. also there were some issues with ide in pio mode recently fixed. (credit: stallion) you may still want to look at 9atom even in ide mode. (i'm not absolving the drive. just saying that there are plan 9 issues affecting your machine.) - erik
Re: [9fans] anyone put their venti on an SSD?
On 2013-05-03, at 6:31 PM, cinap_len...@gmx.de wrote: ocz seems to have a bad reputation. just googled intel ssd broken and you get tons of results from people with broken/dead ocz ssd's. Disk drive reliability comes and goes with the seasons. For years I only ran Seagate disks, and wouldn't go near WD. Then, after a 30% failure run on 1 year old Seagates, I switched back to WDs, which have been flawless for me. So far. And Hitachi has drifted in and out of the picture over the years. Ask anyone else and they will tell you a partially to completely different story. At $80 for a couple of TB, I'll just toss them out when they break. And while SSD isn't anywhere near that inexpensive yet, it's finally down into the price range where you can call it commodity disk. These days I'm paying a bit under $1/GB for SSD. That's cheap enough that I can afford to experiment with smaller sized drives in non-critical applications. I have a FreeBSD box that's been running off an OCZ Vertex 3 for a few months now without issue. It does regular buildworlds and the like, so I'm not gentle on the write volume. UFS TRIM support seems to work fine, and if you chose to believe the smart stats, the (128 GB) disk is error free after having many TB written to it. Many claim Sandforce disks will blow up well before this. I'm beginning to think otherwise, although my sample space is not statistically significant. I have a pair of Vertex 4s I haven't installed yet. I'm curious to see how much (or if) the new OCZ controllers work. The benchmarks I've read are impressive. I'm planning to put one into my Mac Mini. If MacOS and its several hundred GB VM footprint can't kill an SSD, nothing will ;-) --lyndon
Re: [9fans] anyone put their venti on an SSD?
On 2013-05-03, at 6:43 PM, erik quanstrom wrote: (i'm not absolving the drive. just saying that there are plan 9 issues affecting your machine.) No doubt. But I got it to the point where it's working quite happily. And it can maintain that steady state until it tips over and dies, at which point I will re-install on much more current kit. I'm getting too old to fight with the hardware any more ;-P
Re: [9fans] anyone put their venti on an SSD?
Disk drive reliability comes and goes with the seasons. For years I only ran Seagate disks, and wouldn't go near WD. Then, after a 30% failure run on 1 year old Seagates, I switched back to WDs, which have been flawless for me. So far. And Hitachi has drifted in and out of the picture over the years. imho, applying 50 years of experience with spinning hard drives with the relatively new flash memory drive is a suspect comparison. - erik
Re: [9fans] anyone put their venti on an SSD?
On 2013-05-03, at 6:51 PM, erik quanstrom wrote: imho, applying 50 years of experience with spinning hard drives with the relatively new flash memory drive is a suspect comparison. Is it? Cheap SSD seems to break as often as cheap spinny disks. According to everyone's anecdotal stories, at least.
Re: [9fans] anyone put their venti on an SSD?
On Fri May 3 17:59:27 EDT 2013, cinap_len...@gmx.de wrote: i have 60GB intel ssd in my new fileserver holding the cwfs worm cache. no problems so far. but the machine is just up for two weeks. as long as we're straying from venti, i'll say that i've used ssds in ken's file server as both cache and worm drives. there were no problems at all. i've mostly used various intel drives, which have performed in accordance to all published specs. i've also used ocz drives as boot drives to hold nvram. no problems. perhaps this is the proverbial faint praise. on the subject of ken's file server / cwfs, it makes the most sense to me to use ssds as worm, not cache. bandwith to the cache isn't important as long as you don't blow the ram cache. but anything that isn't in the ram cache but is on the worm tends to be randomish access. ssds to very well at at random access, and write once decreases pressure on many things that make implementing a flash drive hard. i would expect similar from venti, which has an even more random data access pattern. - erik
Re: [9fans] anyone put their venti on an SSD?
On 2013-05-03, at 7:00 PM, erik quanstrom wrote: well clearly, we must lump everything that breaks anecdotally as often in the same catagory, by manufacturer. Exactly. That's where we started this conversation :-)
Re: [9fans] anyone put their venti on an SSD?
On Fri, May 03, 2013 at 10:00:41PM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote: On 2013-05-03, at 6:51 PM, erik quanstrom wrote: imho, applying 50 years of experience with spinning hard drives with the relatively new flash memory drive is a suspect comparison. Is it? Cheap SSD seems to break as often as cheap spinny disks. According to everyone's anecdotal stories, at least well clearly, we must lump everything that breaks anecdotally as often in the same catagory, by manufacturer. - erik that was the worst haiku I've ever seen
Re: [9fans] anyone put their venti on an SSD?
well clearly, we must lump everything that breaks anecdotally as often in the same catagory, by manufacturer. - erik that was the worst haiku I've ever seen oh, now. you give me too much credit. i wasn't even trying. - erik
Re: [9fans] anyone put their venti on an SSD?
I had originally used a Crucial 32GB SSD years ago and swapped to a 55GB OCZ enterprise drive (using sdahci). More recently I've moved my venti arenas over to plan9port and have switched over to using the entire SSD for fossil. So far this has been faster than running venti natively - though I still take a replica each night out of paranoia. On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 7:19 AM, Steve Simon st...@quintile.net wrote: what the subject says, anyone put their venti (those that use it) on a solid state disk? -Steve
Re: [9fans] anyone put their venti on an SSD?
cwfs copies the blocks from worm into the cache on read. so the working set is served from the ssd and the ram buffer cache. reading /n/dump would hit the mechanical disk tho. -- cinap
Re: [9fans] anyone put their venti on an SSD?
no cats in picture! -- cinap
Re: [9fans] anyone put their venti on an SSD?
On 4 May 2013 00:59, Charles Forsyth charles.fors...@gmail.com wrote: I had similar problems with OCZ. I ought to have observed that I bought the drive from Fry's as refurbished, which probably wasn't a good recommendation for a drive that was fairly new.
