SourceForge development environment questions (was: Re: [abcusers] Questions about abcm2ps)

[Laura Conrad]

> "John" == jc  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

John> I've been registered as a developer since May.  I've
John> periodically wandered around to see what they have, and see
John> what I can learn.  I still haven't stumbled across the info
John> on how to put things into cvs.  Or, rather, the instructions
John> I've found have produced nothing but error messages that
John> don't give me any clues.

First, let me suggest that people who want to be developers join the
abc-discuss list at sourceforge, so we don't have to clutter up the
abcusers list with discussions of how to use cvs.

I did manage to get some stuff into cvs.  I used the documentation at
https://sourceforge.net/docman/?group_id=1.  The two documents that
are relevant are "Getting started with SourceForge" and the
"SourceForge CVS howto".  I'm willing to try to remember how I did
this if someone asks me specific questions.

As far as putting stuff up at the ftp site, the person who has done
this successfully is James Allwright.  I poked around the
documentation some this afternoon, and found a procedure for producing 
a "release", which I believe I could make work, but I don't think it's 
what James did, because it looks like it requires an administrator to
do the release, and he didn't ask me to do that.  Unless Bert did it
for him.

-- 
Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org )

(Note the email and homepage address changes; please update your
address book, bookmarks, and links.)

To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html

Re: [abcusers] Questions about abcm2ps

[jc]

John Atchley writes:
| Also, I'll be moving the distribution files to source forge once I figure out how to
| get sourceforge to let me do so.

Hmmm ...  So I'm not the only one with this problem.  When you figure
it  out,  how  about  you  pass  on  the  word  (or  a  URL  for  the
instructions).  It's a complex  beast  of  a  web  site.   I've  been
registered  as  a  developer  since  May.  I've periodically wandered
around to see what they have, and see what  I  can  learn.   I  still
haven't  stumbled across the info on how to put things into cvs.  Or,
rather, the instructions I've found have produced nothing  but  error
messages that don't give me any clues.

It looks like it should be really useful, if I could only figure  out
how to get it to do anything at all ...

To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html

Re: [abcusers] Update to jaabc2ps

[jc]

| > gets() is only used in one place (in the original abc2ps code, at that).
| > Where it is used is in the interactive function and it is used to get user
| > input to select tunes.  The buffer is 500+ characters, and it's *highly*
| > unlikely that the user is going to enter more characters than that.  If
| > they should, the only thing that will happen is that the program will
| > crash.
|
| 1. User enters the search string by copy-and-paste
| 2. User has copied more than they think they have.
| 3. Phut.
|
| This ought to be fixed.


Indeed.  For example, on a lot of PCs running unices (such as linux),
if  you  have  a  2-button  mouse, there is a common problem with the
attempt at emulation of the middle button. If you click both buttons,
rather  than  getting the Button-2-down event, something happens that
tells an xterm to paste its entire history  (often  in  some  garbled
form).   You  see  the  window flash, think "Omigod" and watch as the
window scrolls insanely in response  to  the  blast  of  input  data.
Typically  the  program running there dies, and the rest of the input
goes to the shell, which valiantly attempts to interpret  the  flood.
They keep saying that it's been fixed ...

Anyhow, when cut-and-paste is  an  option,  you  shouldn't  make  any
assumptions about how fast or how long a line a "user" can "type".

To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html

Re: [abcusers] tall or short bar lines

[Laura Conrad]

> "John" == John Atchley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:


John> Rather than risk abc that might break some existing parsers,
John> it might be better to use a syntax like %%stavesex ...

Maybe it's my dirty mind, but I'd vote against that particular name.

-- 
Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org )

(Note the email and homepage address changes; please update your
address book, bookmarks, and links.)

To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html

Re: [abcusers] Questions about abcm2ps

[John Atchley]

On Tue, 31 Oct 2000, Guido Gonzato wrote:
> I can only help you on this question. Dynamics marks < and > are not
> currently supported in abcm2ps, but they are in another abc2ps variant,
> jabcm2ps (http://www.guitarnut.com/abc/index.html). 

Actually, I've been calling it jaabc2ps, even though it did descend from abcm2ps ;-)

Also, I'll be moving the distribution files to source forge once I figure out how to
get sourceforge to let me do so.
-- 

John Atchley
--
So many guitars, so little time...
To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html

RE: [abcusers] Update to jaabc2ps

[John Atchley]

I "fixed" it (though only to shut up an irritating gcc linker message).  Frankly,
if I were the user in your scenario I'd rather see an immediate "phut" then watch
tons of error messages fill the screen as the parser strives valiantly to make
sense of the garbage I inadvertently pasted in.

On Mon, 30 Oct 2000, Jack Campin wrote:
> > gets() is only used in one place (in the original abc2ps code, at that). 
> > Where it is used is in the interactive function and it is used to get user 
> > input to select tunes.  The buffer is 500+ characters, and it's *highly* 
> > unlikely that the user is going to enter more characters than that.  If 
> > they should, the only thing that will happen is that the program will 
> > crash.
> 
> 1. User enters the search string by copy-and-paste.
> 
> 2. User has copied more than they think they have.
> 
> 3. Phut.
> 
> This ought to be fixed.
> 
> ===  ===
> 
> 
> To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: 
>http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
-- 

John Atchley
--
So many guitars, so little time...
To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html

Re: [abcusers] tall or short bar lines

[John Atchley]

On Tue, 31 Oct 2000, Guido Gonzato wrote:
> So my question is:
> 
>   John, could you add an option to jabcm2ps to toggle tall bar lines on/off?
>   Jean François, would you do the same?

I'll take a look at it.  The change I made for this was only a few lines of code,
but I remember that it did impact several functions, and that's about all I 
remember about it since it was so long ago.  I think I was being a good boy
and flagging all my changes with comments back then, though, so it might
not be hard to figure out.

> While I'm at it, I may just as well ask for more. Imagine a scheme like
> this: a SATB choral part and a piano/organ accompaniment. The SATB staves
> could be linked by tall bar lines, but not the piano part. So, something
> like:
> 
> %%staves [ 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 5 6 ]

The only problem I see with that is that it would have quite an impact on the
defacto "standard" (i.e., that group of ideas to which several programs adhere)
and not everyone that implements %%staves will necessarily be thrilled about
implementing it.  Rather than risk abc that might break some existing parsers,
it might be better to use a syntax like %%stavesex ...
-- 

John Atchley
--
So many guitars, so little time...
To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html

Re: [abcusers] tall or short bar lines

[Laura Conrad]

> "jc" == jc  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

jc> One thing that I wondered about a while  back,  but  didn't  get  any
jc> response from:  I've seen music that uses a "broken bar", in the form
jc> of short vertical dashes (either between the staff lines or  crossing
jc> them).   This  is useful, for instance, in an urtext edition in which
jc> you'd like to cut the bars in half for  readability,  but  you  still
jc> want to indicate which bar lines were in the original. It's also used
jc> in Balkan and Middle Eastern music to break up long bars  in  complex
jc> rhythms, again for readability.

I've also seen it in rhythmically complex "classical" music.  For
instance, a 7/4 bar that can be read as a 4/4 bar followed by a 3/4
bar will have a broken bar line in the middle.

-- 
Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org )

(Note the email and homepage address changes; please update your
address book, bookmarks, and links.)

To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html

RE: [abcusers] Update to jaabc2ps

[Jack Campin]

> gets() is only used in one place (in the original abc2ps code, at that). 
> Where it is used is in the interactive function and it is used to get user 
> input to select tunes.  The buffer is 500+ characters, and it's *highly* 
> unlikely that the user is going to enter more characters than that.  If 
> they should, the only thing that will happen is that the program will 
> crash.

1. User enters the search string by copy-and-paste.

2. User has copied more than they think they have.

3. Phut.

This ought to be fixed.

===  ===


To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html

Re: [abcusers] tall or short bar lines

[jc]

John Walsh writes:
|   While I'm at it, I think it may also be useful to have invisible
| bar lines.  These could be used in difficult cases to aid the alignment
| of notes between staves carrying different voices, or having different
| meters (in polyrhythmic music) or when there is M:none, or when for some
| other reason there were no barlines at all in one staff, as in some early
| music.  An alternative is some sort of tab stop that one can put in the
| music to align the notes.

This is implemented in abc2ps with the notation [|].   I  wonder  how
many  other  abc tools understand this?  I've used it in a few files,
since there are places where bar lines seem  to  be  required  but  I
don't want a bar showing on the printed copy.

One thing that I wondered about a while  back,  but  didn't  get  any
response from:  I've seen music that uses a "broken bar", in the form
of short vertical dashes (either between the staff lines or  crossing
them).   This  is useful, for instance, in an urtext edition in which
you'd like to cut the bars in half for  readability,  but  you  still
want to indicate which bar lines were in the original. It's also used
in Balkan and Middle Eastern music to break up long bars  in  complex
rhythms, again for readability. It seems to me that an isolated colon
not next to a bar line could very well be used for this purpose. It's
visually  the  same as the broken bar line, and doesn't seem to be in
conflict with any existing usage.

Hmmm ...  maybe I should implement it and try using it.   That  would
tell me whether there's some subtle problem with the idea.

To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html

Re: [abcusers] jaabcm2ps on SourceForge?

[Laura Conrad]

> "John" == Atchley, John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

John> I must be going blind in my old age.  I was there yesterday
John> and would have sworn the distributions were all 5.something!
John> ;-)

You're right, they are.  Try http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~ghost/.

-- 
Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org )

(Note the email and homepage address changes; please update your
address book, bookmarks, and links.)

To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html

Re: [abcusers] tall or short bar lines

[jc]

John Walsh writes:
|   While I'm at it, I think it may also be useful to have invisible
| bar lines.  These could be used in difficult cases to aid the alignment
| of notes between staves carrying different voices, or having different
| meters (in polyrhythmic music) or when there is M:none, or when for some
| other reason there were no barlines at all in one staff, as in some early
| music.  An alternative is some sort of tab stop that one can put in the
| music to align the notes.

This is implemented in abc2ps with the notation [|].   I  wonder  how
many  other  abc tools understand this?  I've used it in a few files,
since there are places where bar lines seem  to  be  required  but  I
don't want a bar showing on the printed copy.

One thing that I wondered about a while  back,  but  didn't  get  any
response from:  I've seen music that uses a "broken bar", in the form
of short vertical dashes (either between the staff lines or  crossing
them).   This  is useful, for instance, in an urtext edition in which
you'd like to cut the bars in half for  readability,  but  you  still
want to indicate which bar lines were in the original. It's also used
in Balkan and Middle Eastern music to break up long bars  in  complex
rhythms, again for readability. It seems to me that an isolated colon
not next to a bar line could very well be used for this purpose. It's
visually  the  same as the broken bar line, and doesn't seem to be in
conflict with any existing usage.

Hmmm ...  maybe I should implement it and try using it.   That  would
tell me whether there's some subtle problem with the idea.

To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html

RE: [abcusers] jaabcm2ps on SourceForge?

[Atchley, John]

I must be going blind in my old age.  I was there yesterday and would have
sworn the distributions were all 5.something! ;-)

> -Original Message-
> From: Laura Conrad 
> Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 10:08 AM
> To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject:  Re: [abcusers] jaabcm2ps on SourceForge?
> 
> > "John" == Atchley, John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> John> Does anybody know if ghostscript/ghostview 6.something is
> John> available for linux platforms?
>  
> Yes, if you go to the homepage, ftp://ftp.cs.wisc.edu/ghost/gnu/.
> 
> -- 
> Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org )
> 
> (Note the email and homepage address changes; please update your
> address book, bookmarks, and links.)
> 
> To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to:
> http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html

Re: [abcusers] tall or short bar lines

[John Walsh]

Guido Gonzato writes:

>While I'm at it, I may just as well ask for more. Imagine a scheme like
>this: a SATB choral part and a piano/organ accompaniment. The SATB staves
>could be linked by tall bar lines, but not the piano part. So, something
>like:
>

 This may be a question of language. I've recently been going into
MusiXTeX, to find what has to be done to make multistaves and lyrics
easier in abc2mtex.  I found that MusiXTeX organizes the staves in an
interesting way. Before defining staves, they define instruments (with
orchestral scores in mind, of course.) Then each instrument is assigned
one or several staves. This gives a way of associating certain staves. 
There are some things that can be done with staves associated
to the same instrument that can't be done with staves of different
instruments: barred note groups can cross staves, voices can go from one
staff to another, and presumably, one instrument can have tall barlines
while the others have short ones, although I haven't checked that last.
This idea may be useful for abc.

While I'm at it, I think it may also be useful to have invisible
bar lines.  These could be used in difficult cases to aid the alignment
of notes between staves carrying different voices, or having different
meters (in polyrhythmic music) or when there is M:none, or when for some
other reason there were no barlines at all in one staff, as in some early
music.  An alternative is some sort of tab stop that one can put in the
music to align the notes.

Cheers,
John Walsh
To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html

Re: [abcusers] in defense to ABC

[Laura Conrad]

> "Guido" == Guido Gonzato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Guido> abc received its share of thrashing lately, didn't it? 

I don't think that's quite what anyone was intending to do.  Someone
asked what Finale could do that ABC couldn't, and people answered
that  question.   

I admit I have a not-so-hidden agenda -- I'd like there to be a good
transfer route between ABC and some more fully-featured music-typesetting
system like musixtex or lilypond.  So a lot of what was in my answer
was the things I'm currently working on abc2ly and abc2mtex to get for 
myself.


Guido> Far from stating that abc is *the* music format of heavens
Guido> and earth, let's remind that the types of music it
Guido> currently supports is amazingly large.

No, the actual implemented standard that you can get a developer to
admit it's a bug if it doesn't work supports only a pretty small range 
of music.

Guido> I don't know the first thing in modern music or jazz or
Guido> whatever, but as far as choral, baroque, and most classical
Guido> music are concerned, abc is an excellent tool that rivals
Guido> other hi-end typesetting systems. 

Anything with words or multiple voices is not supported in a
standardized way.  There isn't a good way in the standard to enter
figured bass or many baroque and classical ornaments.  Or anything
other than a treble clef.  Or note values longer than a whole note.

Guido> Not to mention that abc focuses on description and
Guido> distribution of music, where it has so many advantages over
Guido> other formats I'd be tempted to say it wins hands down.

I agree with this.  Which is why we should work on getting the rest of 
the way to standardizing what we have now.

-- 
Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org )

(Note the email and homepage address changes; please update your
address book, bookmarks, and links.)

To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html

Re: [abcusers] jaabcm2ps on SourceForge?

[Laura Conrad]

> "John" == Atchley, John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

John> Does anybody know if ghostscript/ghostview 6.something is
John> available for linux platforms?
 
Yes, if you go to the homepage, ftp://ftp.cs.wisc.edu/ghost/gnu/.

-- 
Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org )

(Note the email and homepage address changes; please update your
address book, bookmarks, and links.)

To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html

RE: [abcusers] jaabcm2ps on SourceForge?

[Atchley, John]

Done!  I signed up over the weekend.  I tried to upload the RPMs to the pub
directory last night and was refused permission, both as anonymous and using
my sourceforge account and password.  Once I figure sourceforge out I'll
upload the RPMs.

BTW, I swatted a couple of minor bugs that haven't made it into the upload
on the guitarnuts site, yet.

I also discovered that the watermark feature doesn't work with
ghostview/ghostscript on Linux (don't recall what specific versions I'm
using, but it's 5.something, the versions delivered with Linux Mandrake
7.0).  Apparently Linux ghostscript doesn't recognize the ps3 constructs I
used for tiling the watermarks.  Does anybody know if ghostscript/ghostview
6.something is available for linux platforms?
 
John

> -Original Message-
> From: Guido Gonzato 
> Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 7:00 AM
> To:   ABC users ML
> Subject:  [abcusers] jaabcm2ps on SourceForge?
> 
> John, Laura,
> 
> this message is for you in particular. I'm wondering if John wishes to
> join us and become a SourceForge developer? He could just upload his stuff
> there, so that I could arrange for small things like providing binaries,
> polishing the archives a bit etc.
> 
> John, how about it?
> Later,
>   Guido =8-)
> 
> 
> -- 
> Dr. Guido Gonzato  - Linux System Administrator
> My public PGP key is at http://ibogeo.df.unibo.it/guido/PGP.asc
> 
> "It is a good morning exercise for a research scientist to discard
> a pet hypothesis every day before breakfast. It keeps him young."
>-- Konrad Lorenz
> 
> To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to:
> http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html

[abcusers] Sorry wrong address re : Pirate CDROMS (SOFTWARE).

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

Sorry about that post.
I was trying to send it to global.net to action.
But somehow it ended up in abcusers.

Sorry
Rod


To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html

Re: [abcusers] jaabcm2ps on SourceForge?

[Laura Conrad]

> "Guido" == Guido Gonzato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Guido> this message is for you in particular. I'm wondering if
Guido> John wishes to join us and become a SourceForge developer?

He has.  (Actually, both John Atchley and John Chambers have.)  We
now have 7 developers signed up.

-- 
Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ )
(617) 661-8097  fax: (801) 365-6574 
233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139
To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html

[abcusers] tall or short bar lines

[Guido Gonzato]

Hi all,

I'm going to touch a subject that I know some of you have strong feelings
against. The most apparent difference between abc2ps and abcm2ps is the
looks of bar lines: the latter has tall bar lines that cross the vocal part.
IIRC, John set out to write jabcm2ps because he couldn't stand those tall
bar lines...

However, there are points to support those. I found countless scores of
organ and choral music that have tall bar lines, and I asked a professional
musician the reason for this. His answer somewhat confused me, but it ran
like, "in organ scores that's the best thing to do".

On a personal note, a few singers of my choir and I find scores with tall
bar lines easier to read.

So my question is:

  John, could you add an option to jabcm2ps to toggle tall bar lines on/off?
  Jean François, would you do the same?

While I'm at it, I may just as well ask for more. Imagine a scheme like
this: a SATB choral part and a piano/organ accompaniment. The SATB staves
could be linked by tall bar lines, but not the piano part. So, something
like:

%%staves [ 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 5 6 ]

would do exactly what I saw yesterday in an Italian edition of Vivaldi's
Magnificat.

What do you think?

Thanks,
   Guido =8-)

-- 
Dr. Guido Gonzato  - Linux System Administrator
My public PGP key is at http://ibogeo.df.unibo.it/guido/PGP.asc

"It is a good morning exercise for a research scientist to discard
a pet hypothesis every day before breakfast. It keeps him young."
 -- Konrad Lorenz


To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html

[abcusers] jaabcm2ps on SourceForge?

[Guido Gonzato]

John, Laura,

this message is for you in particular. I'm wondering if John wishes to
join us and become a SourceForge developer? He could just upload his stuff
there, so that I could arrange for small things like providing binaries,
polishing the archives a bit etc.

John, how about it?
Later,
  Guido =8-)


-- 
Dr. Guido Gonzato  - Linux System Administrator
My public PGP key is at http://ibogeo.df.unibo.it/guido/PGP.asc

"It is a good morning exercise for a research scientist to discard
a pet hypothesis every day before breakfast. It keeps him young."
 -- Konrad Lorenz

To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html

[abcusers] in defense to ABC

[Guido Gonzato]

Hi all,

abc received its share of thrashing lately, didn't it? So I thought it would
be fair to say a couple of words in its defense...

Far from stating that abc is *the* music format of heavens and earth, let's
remind that the types of music it currently supports is amazingly large. I
don't know the first thing in modern music or jazz or whatever, but as far
as choral, baroque, and most classical music are concerned, abc is an
excellent tool that rivals other hi-end typesetting systems. Not to mention
that abc focuses on description and distribution of music, where it has so
many advantages over other formats I'd be tempted to say it wins hands down.

Let's criticize it, it will do it good, but let's not forget how nice it is
already :-)))

Later,
  Guido =8-)


-- 
Dr. Guido Gonzato  - Linux System Administrator
My public PGP key is at http://ibogeo.df.unibo.it/guido/PGP.asc

"It is a good morning exercise for a research scientist to discard
a pet hypothesis every day before breakfast. It keeps him young."
 -- Konrad Lorenz

To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html