Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Kotian, H P]

Dear Dananjay

Do you think, you can take an initiative of audio / video recording of the 
exams of VI candidate as a part of the support service in providing scribes.
I suppose it is time for someone to bell the cat and build precedence

Please also document the process of the equipment used, the preservation policy 
of the recording, protocol to handover the recording etc. Get the documentation 
published on your portal so that it becomes a fully transparent process.


Your thoughts please.

Harish.

-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of 
Dhananjay Bhole
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 1:35 PM
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the 
disabled. 
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

Dear All,


Very important discussion going on.
I would like to know what are the rules/guidelines for institutions providing 
scribe from their side?
Being coordinator of disability support services of Pune University I have to 
provide scribes to students appearing exam in university department and 
affiliated colleges. Some times we provide a senior person like research 
associate or teaching assistant who acts as a scribe and superviser as well. Is 
it allowed? This practice eliminate mal practices and also helpful to students 
with visual impairment as such persons can understand what student is dictating.
Also Many departmental heads or examination centre chief consult to coordinator 
of disability support service for specific cases such as what type of scribe 
should be provided to MBA student. Whether the scribe should be from non 
management non commerce background? I suggest them that the scribe should be 
from same discipline but 1 year lower qualification. EG if student is appearing 
second year MCA the scribe should be from First year MCA or lower. Not from 
social science background. If student is comfortable with other stream, they 
can go for it.

Keeping rational in mind, we manipulate some rules for the convenience of 
students and institutes. There should be guidelines for institutes as well 
which provides scribes to students.

I remembered that I was given a clurck as my scribe in CSIR NET exam who was 
not able to understand and read and write several terminologies of science and 
mathematics. I struggled a lot there.
Exam aspirents with visual impairment should not face such issues if scribe is 
provided by institutes conducting exams.

Regards
On 6/26/18, Shweta Mishra  wrote:
> hi friends!
> it means, scribe criteria will be different for for candidates with
> different qualification.
> for example, a post graduate and a twelfth passed candidate is
> appearing for the same competitive exam, then what will be scribe
> criteria for both candidates?
> if a post graduate candidate will bring graduate scribe, then won't it
> be injustice to the twelfth passed candidate? because twelfth passed
> candidate will be allowed to bring maximum eleventh passed scribe.
>
> On 6/26/18, Lyngdoh  wrote:
>> Can someone help me out with scribe for SBI PO 2018 exams... I mean
>> what qualification shall I ask for from my to be scribe then? In the
>> past I have always looked for graduates.
>>
>> On 6/26/18, Asudani, Rajesh  wrote:
>>> Congrats!
>>> Retention of capacity to choose own scribe, though less in
>>> qualification than oneself, along with freedom to use devices, and
>>> meet the scribe two days in advance is a superb victory.
>>>
>>> At least folks now at least, stop using professional scribes.
>>> Accessible exams, if online or computerized, is the ultimate dream.
>>>
>>>
>>> सादर / With thanks & Regards
>>> राजेश आसुदानी Rajesh Asudani
>>> सहायक महाप्रबन्धक AGM
>>> बाजार आसूचना ईकाई MIU
>>> भारतीय रिजर्व बैंक Reserve Bank of India नागपुर Nagpur
>>>
>>> 0712 2806846
>>>
>>> President
>>> VIBEWA
>>> Co-Moderator
>>> VIB-India
>>>
>>> A-pilll = Action coupled with Positivity, Interest, Love, Logic and
>>> laughter.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
>>> Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani
>>> Sent: 25 June 2018 16:18
>>> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>>> concerning the disabled.'
>>> Subject: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>>
>>> Sorry folks for not reporting for 2 days. A lot of you have already
>>> heard what happened but let me explain a few issues
>>>
>>> 1.   You all know that in 2013 we got new guidelines for the use of
>>> scribes. This was far and beyond what had been given by Courts and
>>> definitely more than what we had demanded at different times.
>>>
>>> 2.   So far about one year there was not too much of a problem
>>> because
>>> no one really implemented the guidelines.
>>>
>>> 3.   Then the penny dropped-U PS C and others started saying that
>>> these
>>> guidelines were unfair.
>>>
>>> 4.   Some of our own VI candidates decided that these guidelines gave
>>> them the right to have 

Re: [AI] Kerala Federation of the Blind under the scanner: ₹1.13 crore allowed to KFB between 2013-2017 under Project Insight report sought on its utilisation

[Kanchan Pamnani]

Wonderful that someone will check on NGOs.Kanchan  

-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of 
avinash shahi
Sent: 27 June 2018 16:18
To: accessindia
Subject: [AI] Kerala Federation of the Blind under the scanner: ₹1.13 crore 
allowed to KFB between 2013-2017 under Project Insight report sought on its 
utilisation

Sharing this news cause this is of immense interest! and other organisations 
are also trembling.
Biju Prabhakar, Special Secretary, Department of Social Justice, has clarified 
that the Kerala Federation of the Blind (KFB) will not be allowed further 
financial grants in the name of Project Insight, unless the organisation 
produces evidence to show how the funds allowed for the project has actually 
helped the scheme’s beneficiaries.
Read more:
http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Thiruvananthapuram/project-insight-funds-use-report-sought/article24257127.ece


--
Avinash Shahi
Doctoral student at Centre for Law and Governance JNU




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Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Kanchan Pamnani]

Prashant, 
Our subcommittee let us down at one level and secondly our own people  have 
complained to court and to the UPSC and  our own Ministry against the rampant 
misuse of scribes.
Technology during exams is improving every year and slowly but surely we will 
get to a point when most exams will be on the computer however at present we 
are not there and therefore we have to deal with the difficult situation. 
Kanchan 
-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of 
Prashant Ranjan Verma
Sent: 27 June 2018 16:37
To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the 
disabled.'
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

It is unfortunate that the present progressive and rights based exam writing 
guidelines are being tinkered with. Instead of modifications, it should have 
been uniformly implemented all over the country. 

If some problems were being observed, arrangements should have been made for 
stronger invigilation. 
May be a complete video + audio recording of each blind candidate with scribe  
could be done. It is not so expensive and I think cost is anyway not the reason 
for the changes being proposed. 
The videos of successful candidates could then be evaluated and compared with 
the answer sheets. The fear of   being in complete CCTV surveillance would 
deter much of the wrong practices. 

These days the election voting, some court hearings, interrogations etc. are 
being video graphed. why can't the   same government agree for video graphy of 
exams? 

If not this, why cant the government appoint invigilator for each blind 
candidate or at least one invigilator for 2 blind candidates.

Accessibility of the question paper and method of evaluation is a separate 
issue which needs to be pursued with each examining body in parallel.

Imagine the government appointed pool of scribes offering the blind candidates 
additional service on some payment.  If blind candidates are being accused of 
malpractices, the scribe pool can also become corrupt with time. 

Who wants to give a guarantee that knowledge is related to academic 
qualifications only? Why can't a less qualified person be capable of solving 
questions of a higher exam? and in the same way are all post graduates capable 
of doing well in the class 12 exams even now? Fixing scribe qualifications is 
not a good idea, it will not solve the problem. 

thanks,
Prashant
-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of 
Sudeshna Bhattacharya
Sent: 27 June 2018 15:05
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the 
disabled. 
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

Hi Friends,
On reading this very interesting and extremely useful discussion, I could not 
stop from expressing my observations and view there of.
Firstly in a country like India where there is a huge number of unemployed 
youth, it will not be that easy to curb malpractices of various types in 
writing exams. We are thinking of malpractices that can be caused by using 
scribes by VI candidates only, but it can happen with any other candidates as 
well by any other type  of wrong attitude..  So why to stop VI candidates from 
choosing scribe of their own as it was before? Is it the only malpractice going 
on while writing any exam?Here I’d like to mention that I don’t support 
malpractices by VI but when finding a scribe itself is a great
challenge- particularly in semi urban or rural areas, putting even more 
restriction will make the chance of getting a scribe even more limited..
Secondly I feel, even if the exam authority can build up a pool of scribes and 
provides scribe mandatorily to the candidates who are to use their services,is 
there any guarantee that every one of them will be of same qualification or 
merit? Moreover if a VI candidate finds a scribe provided by the authority not 
suitable for him / her to write the exam only two days before the exam, how the 
authority will provide him / her a suitable one within that very short 
time?won’t it be an extreme injustice  towards him / her and don’t you feel it 
will create a tremendous mental pressure on the candidate?
Thirdly, if we think the case of any exam for any other people, aren’t there 
any differences amongst the candidates in regard to qualification and merit? E. 
g. in any clerical exam do all the candidates hold the same HS qualification? 
Still lots of HS candidates are appearing the exam knowing fully well that 
there is very high possibility of  many candidates with much higher degree and 
efficiency being his / her competitor. isn’t it?
Fourthly, if we talk about professional scribes and malpractices caused by 
them, lowering educational qualification doesn’t seem to be a viable solution 
because in that case, persons interested to be a scribe in profession, will 
learn the subjects of competitive exams only irrespective of their 

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Bhavya shah]

Hi all,

Thanks Kanchan Ma’am and others involved for all your efforts. This is
a much needed and enlightening discussion. Having recently appeard for
the CBSE Class 10 Boards and now preparing for the JEE, reflecting on
the unanticipated scribe-related issues I just experienced and the
stark scribe-related challenges that lie ahead with the present JEE
guidelines, I would like to offer some inputs to this conversation.

There are so many positions that are hotly debated in India about
certain accommodations for candidates with special needs that are
norms abroad. For instance, accommodations for exams like the SAT
conducted by the College Board seem to be almost all-encompassing and
are well documented on these pages -
https://www.collegeboard.org/students-with-disabilities,
https://www.collegeboard.org/students-with-disabilities/typical-accommodations
and 
https://www.collegeboard.org/students-with-disabilities/typical-accommodations/other.
The argument of strengthened invigilation preventing scribe
malpractices seems to have been accepted in parts of the world but not
in India. It is also worth noting that compensatory time in these
parts of the world, as Dinesh Sir has noted, is often 50-100% as
opposed to the average 33% in India, which can prove inadequate for
calculation-intensive examinations. In regards to the JEE and other
esoteric examinations at least, I feel like the system is not very
reassuring.

JEE is a purely mathematical and scientific exam, containing a
substantial proportion of visuals and diagrams. The scribe guidelines
for the JEE are such that the blind candidate does not have the
discretion of bringing his/her own scribe, less qualified or not, and
JEE is responsible for the provision of a scribe from Class 11 Science
stream with Mathematics, who can be met by the blind candidate only a
day before the exam. This does sound reasonable to an extent, but the
challenge begins to become apparent when the scribe and blind
candidate have less than 24 hours to figure out how best to describe
diagrams or actually draw them on the swell line sheet, read out tons
of mathematical and scientific symbols that are perhaps covered only
in Class 12, coordinate calculations whether they are standard
arithmetic operations, require the scribe to draw a matrix, or note
down symbols themselves, and the list goes on.

Even with the present reality and ecosystem in India, I think there
are some feasible and acceptable solutions to this problem. If the
blind candidate were to have the discretion to bring his/her own less
qualified scribe, then there would be ample time before the exam to
work out everything. However, even if the examination conducting body
were to provide a scribe from their end compulsorily, there are just
two additional changes that are required – (1) an earlier meeting
between the blind candidate and the scribe  and (2) availability of a
an alternative scribe. With reference to (1), a window of about 5 days
would be enough to get the scribe familiarized with everything
significant. About (2), in case of the unsuitability of the previously
assigned scribe, a backup should be available.

I still have two years to hope for some positive changes in the scribe
guidelines for the JEE and think this through, but just sharing some
thoughts…

Thanks.

On 6/27/18, Dinesh Kaushal  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Many of the problems such as finding a suitable writer at the last minute
> due to unsuitability or health issues could be solved if the examination
> system is a bit flexible. Accommodating people with various needs is not
> easy so examining bodies could consider second chance in a few days.
>
> Many international examining bodies allow you to retake the exam if due to
> unavoidable circumstances your exam could not be completed on the set date.
> They also provide religious alternative dates for candidates who cannot
> appear on the set date. I am using religious alternative date as an example
> of being flexible.
>
> Many of you already know, examination bodies such ETS or GMAC also provide
> 50 to 100 percent extra time for Toefl/GRE / GMAT.
>
> Unfortunately even GMAT or GRE are not yet accessible via computer though
> they allow the candidates to write the descriptive parts using screen
> readers. I understand that there could be problems regarding diagrams,
> special symbols etc. many of the suggestions put forward are visionary in
> nature but we need to go by what is already available.
>
> These bodies have a lot of discretion about whom they allow as a scribe. It
> is their mandate to provide a suitable scribe, but if you request, they do
> allow your own candidate and they record your session to check for any
> malpractice. Many of Indian examining bodies would say that they do not have
> resources to record sessions. But it is their responsibility to provide
> support for candidates as well as ensure that the integrity of the exam is
> not compromised.
>
> Additional note: One way to 

Re: [AI] Term insurance for VI

[Surya Prakash Sharma]

Hi,
I also have a term insurance plan with aegon religare.

On June 25, 2018 11:07:23 PM Ajay Minocha  wrote:


Hi,

I took a term plan from Aviva last year. The document clearly mentions
my disability and it provides cover against all types of mortality.

Would like to mentioned that Aviva though gave me the term plan
without any issue but didn't give me good enough coverage in a
critical illness plan. Has anyone tried to avail a critical illness
plan on this list?

Cheers,
Ajay

On 24/06/2018, Radha thunder storm  wrote:

Have any family members been honored with sum assured?


Sent from my iPhone


On 24-Jun-2018, at 2:24 PM, Hassim syed  wrote:

Dear Friend,
I have a term policy for Rs 1 Crore  from Max Life India. I took the
policy in March 2015. Even in the policy document, it is clearly
mentioned about my visual impairment.

For further details you may feel free to revert to me.

With wishes.


On 6/22/18, Nitin Dhaware  wrote:
Hello All,

Many of my friends tried to avail term insurance from SBI life and LIC.
However, they denied on the ground of VI. I would like to know, has
anyone
availed term insurance here on the list?
If any, what kind of challenges faced?
Which term insurance has availed?
Is the provider providing accidental cover?
Has anyone tried to talk to insurance authority like IRDA about the
same?

Kind Regards,
Nitin



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--
Ajay Minocha
Mob : +91-9584076767
E mail : ajayminoc...@gmail.com
p13aj...@iimidr.ac.in
Skype: ajayminocha2




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Re: [AI] Blind concession on Tatkal train tickets?

[bhawani shankar verma]

no need of clerification, there is no concession in mentioned trains.


-Original Message- 
From: Siva Suresh

Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 4:59 PM
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning 
the disabled.

Subject: Re: [AI] Blind concession on Tatkal train tickets?

bavani sir and others. forget about concession on tatkal. but recently
I have to book a ticket to delhi from Vijayawada. I tried to book
ticket in garibrath express but I was told that there is no concession
ticket given for garibrath express. if not tatkal. is the concession
not applicable for such trains? as you mentioned duranto, janshatabdi,
garibrath
suvidha, antyodaya trains?
please thro some light on this.

Thanking you in advance Shivasuresh

On 6/27/18, bhawani shankar verma  wrote:

no, there is no concession on tatkal, duranto, janshatabdi, garibrath,
suvidha, antyodaya trains etc.

On Wed, 27 Jun 2018, 8:30 a.m. Rishi Kewalramani, <
rishi.kewalram...@gmail.com> wrote:


Hi Friends,
Do the V I get concession on Tatkal train tickets?Thanks, Rishi





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--
thank you and warm regards.
shivasuresh.
reach me through the following means
mobile no. 9550437181.
e- mail I D sivasureshka...@gmail.com
skype I D sivasuresh.katta
hyderabad




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[AI] Youtube link of radioudaan badalta daur with Mr Nipun Malhotra on his latest contribution for disability community

[Radio Udaan]

Youtube link of radioudaan badalta daur with Mr Nipun Malhotra on his
latest contribution for disability community
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcDAim-ouE4




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[AI] Shared from BBC News

[Arijeet Patil]

Hope all of you find inspiration, hope and pride reading this.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44601944
Regards,Arijeet.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10




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[AI] contact detail

[Sonu Golkar]

Hi,

Requesting Mr. Bhavani shankar Verma to share his email ID and contact
number to my personal Id at sonugol...@gmail.com

 

Thank you

 

Regards

 

Sonu




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Re: [AI] Blind concession on Tatkal train tickets?

[Siva Suresh]

bavani sir and others. forget about concession on tatkal. but recently
I have to book a ticket to delhi from Vijayawada. I tried to book
ticket in garibrath express but I was told that there is no concession
 ticket given for garibrath express. if not tatkal. is the concession
not applicable for such trains? as you mentioned duranto, janshatabdi,
garibrath
 suvidha, antyodaya trains?
please thro some light on this.

Thanking you in advance Shivasuresh

On 6/27/18, bhawani shankar verma  wrote:
> no, there is no concession on tatkal, duranto, janshatabdi, garibrath,
> suvidha, antyodaya trains etc.
>
> On Wed, 27 Jun 2018, 8:30 a.m. Rishi Kewalramani, <
> rishi.kewalram...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Friends,
>> Do the V I get concession on Tatkal train tickets?Thanks, Rishi
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Search for old postings at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/
>>
>> To unsubscribe send a message to
>> accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in
>> with the subject unsubscribe.
>>
>> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes,
>> please visit the list home page at
>> http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
>>
>>
>> Disclaimer:
>> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of
>> the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its
>> veracity;
>>
>> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the
>> mails
>> sent through this mailing list..
>>
>
>
>
> Search for old postings at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/
>
> To unsubscribe send a message to
> accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in
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>
>
> Disclaimer:
> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the
> person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;
>
> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails
> sent through this mailing list..
>


-- 
thank you and warm regards.
shivasuresh.
reach me through the following means
mobile no. 9550437181.
e- mail I D sivasureshka...@gmail.com
skype I D sivasuresh.katta
hyderabad




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Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Dinesh Kaushal]

Hi all,

Many of the problems such as finding a suitable writer at the last minute due 
to unsuitability or health issues could be solved if the examination system is 
a bit flexible. Accommodating people with various needs is not easy so 
examining bodies could consider second chance in a few days.

Many international examining bodies allow you to retake the exam if due to 
unavoidable circumstances your exam could not be completed on the set date. 
They also provide religious alternative dates for candidates who cannot appear 
on the set date. I am using religious alternative date as an example of being 
flexible.

Many of you already know, examination bodies such ETS or GMAC also provide 50 
to 100 percent extra time for Toefl/GRE / GMAT.

Unfortunately even GMAT or GRE are not yet accessible via computer though they 
allow the candidates to write the descriptive parts using screen readers. I 
understand that there could be problems regarding diagrams, special symbols 
etc. many of the suggestions put forward are visionary in nature but we need to 
go by what is already available.

These bodies have a lot of discretion about whom they allow as a scribe. It is 
their mandate to provide a suitable scribe, but if you request, they do allow 
your own candidate and they record your session to check for any malpractice. 
Many of Indian examining bodies would say that they do not have resources to 
record sessions. But it is their responsibility to provide support for 
candidates as well as ensure that the integrity of the exam is not compromised.

Additional note: One way to make math related content accessible could be a 
MathML based course material as well as the examination, but that too will not 
solve diagram issues. So in near future we would have to depend on human 
scribes. I think UPSC should establish disability support services similar to 
what Pune University already has. If such a service gets established, UPSC 
could make incremental modifications every year.


-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of 
Srinivasu Chakravarthula
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 3:56 PM
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the 
disabled. 
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

George,
I think it was used to illustrate the scenario. Well, firstly PhD candidate 
shouldn't be applying to compete for a clerk post. Overall point is if scribe 
qualification is slightly less than what the job is needed should be enough. If 
at all that less qualification is a mandate.

Regards,

Srinivasu Chakravarthula - Twitter: http://twitter.com/CSrinivasu/
Website: http://www.srinivasu.org | http://serveominclusion.com

Let's create an inclusive web!

Lead Accessibility Consultant, Informatica


On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 6:41 PM, George Abraham  wrote:

> Just would like to point out that the caliber of a Ph.D is definitely 
> higher than a 12th passed. Insisting on the Ph.D to use a 11th passed 
> scribe might be a disservice to him. A point to ponder!
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On 
> Behalf Of Kotian, H P
> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 2:44 PM
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues 
> concerning the disabled.
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>
> Hi
> If I understand the scenario correct for example the post is for a 
> clerk for which the minimum qualification is HSC, there are 2 
> candidates one a post graduate and another a HSC. The qualification to 
> consider for the job is HSC and not the qualification of the candidate.
> Therefore the qualification for a scribe should not be HSC passed in 
> this case.
>
> I am aware the minimum qualification for clerk is no more HSC. 
> Mentioned it for illustration purpose.
>
> Harish.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On 
> Behalf Of Shweta Mishra
> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 1:51 PM
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues 
> concerning the disabled. 
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>
> hi friends!
> it means, scribe criteria will be different for for candidates with 
> different qualification.
> for example, a post graduate and a twelfth passed candidate is 
> appearing for the same competitive exam, then what will be scribe 
> criteria for both candidates?
> if a post graduate candidate will bring graduate scribe, then won't it 
> be injustice to the twelfth passed candidate? because twelfth passed 
> candidate will be allowed to bring maximum eleventh passed scribe.
>
> On 6/26/18, Lyngdoh  wrote:
> > Can someone help me out with scribe for SBI PO 2018 exams... I mean 
> > what qualification shall I ask for from my to be scribe then? In the 
> > past I have always looked for graduates.
> >
> > On 6/26/18, Asudani, Rajesh  wrote:
> >> Congrats!
> >> Retention of capacity to choose own 

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Siva Suresh]

HI Sudeshna Bhattacharya it was a good discussion. very neatly
concluded all the points. dear friends.  if the minimam qualification
for a scribe is matriculation. what is the criteria for a VI candidate
who is appearing for SSC board exam which is equivalent to
matriculation in AP?
nead your suggestions and inputs on this point.

Thank you all in advance. Shivasuresh



On 6/27/18, Srinivasu Chakravarthula  wrote:
> George,
> I think it was used to illustrate the scenario. Well, firstly PhD candidate
> shouldn't be applying to compete for a clerk post. Overall point is if
> scribe qualification is slightly less than what the job is needed should be
> enough. If at all that less qualification is a mandate.
>
> Regards,
>
> Srinivasu Chakravarthula - Twitter: http://twitter.com/CSrinivasu/
> Website: http://www.srinivasu.org | http://serveominclusion.com
>
> Let's create an inclusive web!
>
> Lead Accessibility Consultant, Informatica
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 6:41 PM, George Abraham  wrote:
>
>> Just would like to point out that the caliber of a Ph.D is definitely
>> higher than a 12th passed. Insisting on the Ph.D to use a 11th passed
>> scribe might be a disservice to him. A point to ponder!
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
>> Behalf Of Kotian, H P
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 2:44 PM
>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
>> the disabled.
>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>
>> Hi
>> If I understand the scenario correct for example the post is for a clerk
>> for which the minimum qualification is HSC, there are 2 candidates one a
>> post graduate and another a HSC. The qualification to consider for the job
>> is HSC and not the qualification of the candidate.
>> Therefore the qualification for a scribe should not be HSC passed in this
>> case.
>>
>> I am aware the minimum qualification for clerk is no more HSC. Mentioned
>> it for illustration purpose.
>>
>> Harish.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
>> Behalf Of Shweta Mishra
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 1:51 PM
>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
>> the disabled. 
>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>
>> hi friends!
>> it means, scribe criteria will be different for for candidates with
>> different qualification.
>> for example, a post graduate and a twelfth passed candidate is appearing
>> for the same competitive exam, then what will be scribe criteria for both
>> candidates?
>> if a post graduate candidate will bring graduate scribe, then won't it be
>> injustice to the twelfth passed candidate? because twelfth passed
>> candidate
>> will be allowed to bring maximum eleventh passed scribe.
>>
>> On 6/26/18, Lyngdoh  wrote:
>> > Can someone help me out with scribe for SBI PO 2018 exams... I mean
>> > what qualification shall I ask for from my to be scribe then? In the
>> > past I have always looked for graduates.
>> >
>> > On 6/26/18, Asudani, Rajesh  wrote:
>> >> Congrats!
>> >> Retention of capacity to choose own scribe, though less in
>> >> qualification than oneself, along with freedom to use devices, and
>> >> meet the scribe two days in advance is a superb victory.
>> >>
>> >> At least folks now at least, stop using professional scribes.
>> >> Accessible exams, if online or computerized, is the ultimate dream.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> सादर / With thanks & Regards
>> >> राजेश आसुदानी Rajesh Asudani
>> >> सहायक महाप्रबन्धक AGM
>> >> बाजार आसूचना ईकाई MIU
>> >> भारतीय रिजर्व बैंक Reserve Bank of India नागपुर Nagpur
>> >>
>> >> 0712 2806846
>> >>
>> >> President
>> >> VIBEWA
>> >> Co-Moderator
>> >> VIB-India
>> >>
>> >> A-pilll = Action coupled with Positivity, Interest, Love, Logic and
>> >> laughter.
>> >>
>> >> -Original Message-
>> >> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
>> >> Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani
>> >> Sent: 25 June 2018 16:18
>> >> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>> >> concerning the disabled.'
>> >> Subject: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>> >>
>> >> Sorry folks for not reporting for 2 days. A lot of you have already
>> >> heard what happened but let me explain a few issues
>> >>
>> >> 1.   You all know that in 2013 we got new guidelines for the use of
>> >> scribes. This was far and beyond what had been given by Courts and
>> >> definitely more than what we had demanded at different times.
>> >>
>> >> 2.   So far about one year there was not too much of a problem
>> because
>> >> no one really implemented the guidelines.
>> >>
>> >> 3.   Then the penny dropped-U PS C and others started saying that
>> >> these
>> >> guidelines were unfair.
>> >>
>> >> 4.   Some of our own VI candidates decided that these guidelines
>> gave
>> >> them the right to have overqualified or should I say coached writers.
>> >>
>> >> 5.   Our 

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Prashant Ranjan Verma]

It is unfortunate that the present progressive and rights based exam writing 
guidelines are being tinkered with. Instead of modifications, it should have 
been uniformly implemented all over the country. 

If some problems were being observed, arrangements should have been made for 
stronger invigilation. 
May be a complete video + audio recording of each blind candidate with scribe  
could be done. It is not so expensive and I think cost is anyway not the reason 
for the changes being proposed. 
The videos of successful candidates could then be evaluated and compared with 
the answer sheets. The fear of   being in complete CCTV surveillance would 
deter much of the wrong practices. 

These days the election voting, some court hearings, interrogations etc. are 
being video graphed. why can't the   same government agree for video graphy of 
exams? 

If not this, why cant the government appoint invigilator for each blind 
candidate or at least one invigilator for 2 blind candidates.

Accessibility of the question paper and method of evaluation is a separate 
issue which needs to be pursued with each examining body in parallel.

Imagine the government appointed pool of scribes offering the blind candidates 
additional service on some payment.  If blind candidates are being accused of 
malpractices, the scribe pool can also become corrupt with time. 

Who wants to give a guarantee that knowledge is related to academic 
qualifications only? Why can't a less qualified person be capable of solving 
questions of a higher exam? and in the same way are all post graduates capable 
of doing well in the class 12 exams even now? Fixing scribe qualifications is 
not a good idea, it will not solve the problem. 

thanks,
Prashant 
-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of 
Sudeshna Bhattacharya
Sent: 27 June 2018 15:05
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the 
disabled. 
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

Hi Friends,
On reading this very interesting and extremely useful discussion, I could not 
stop from expressing my observations and view there of.
Firstly in a country like India where there is a huge number of unemployed 
youth, it will not be that easy to curb malpractices of various types in 
writing exams. We are thinking of malpractices that can be caused by using 
scribes by VI candidates only, but it can happen with any other candidates as 
well by any other type  of wrong attitude..  So why to stop VI candidates from 
choosing scribe of their own as it was before? Is it the only malpractice going 
on while writing any exam?Here I’d like to mention that I don’t support 
malpractices by VI but when finding a scribe itself is a great
challenge- particularly in semi urban or rural areas, putting even more 
restriction will make the chance of getting a scribe even more limited..
Secondly I feel, even if the exam authority can build up a pool of scribes and 
provides scribe mandatorily to the candidates who are to use their services,is 
there any guarantee that every one of them will be of same qualification or 
merit? Moreover if a VI candidate finds a scribe provided by the authority not 
suitable for him / her to write the exam only two days before the exam, how the 
authority will provide him / her a suitable one within that very short 
time?won’t it be an extreme injustice  towards him / her and don’t you feel it 
will create a tremendous mental pressure on the candidate?
Thirdly, if we think the case of any exam for any other people, aren’t there 
any differences amongst the candidates in regard to qualification and merit? E. 
g. in any clerical exam do all the candidates hold the same HS qualification? 
Still lots of HS candidates are appearing the exam knowing fully well that 
there is very high possibility of  many candidates with much higher degree and 
efficiency being his / her competitor. isn’t it?
Fourthly, if we talk about professional scribes and malpractices caused by 
them, lowering educational qualification doesn’t seem to be a viable solution 
because in that case, persons interested to be a scribe in profession, will 
learn the subjects of competitive exams only irrespective of their 
qualification and master it. Hence putting restriction on scribe selection can 
neither rule out the possibility of malpractice, nor the use of professional 
scribes’ service.
Fifth, digital media like EVM, audio recorder for submitting exam papers is a 
time taken process in Indian Infrastructural scenario and its efficiency is 
also debatable.
Finally, when our objective is to see the well being of the VI community as a 
whole, and at the same time getting a suitable scribe is really tough task,just 
in an attempt to eliminate malpractice and use of professional scribes, I 
think, instead of putting restriction on scribe selection process and blaming 
our own community  for using unethical means, we should 

[AI] Kerala Federation of the Blind under the scanner: ₹1.13 crore allowed to KFB between 2013-2017 under Project Insight report sought on its utilisation

[avinash shahi]

Sharing this news cause this is of immense interest! and other
organisations are also trembling.
Biju Prabhakar, Special Secretary, Department of Social Justice, has
clarified that the Kerala Federation of the Blind (KFB) will not be
allowed further
financial grants in the name of Project Insight, unless the
organisation produces evidence to show how the funds allowed for the
project has actually helped
the scheme’s beneficiaries.
Read more:
http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Thiruvananthapuram/project-insight-funds-use-report-sought/article24257127.ece


-- 
Avinash Shahi
Doctoral student at Centre for Law and Governance JNU




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Disclaimer:
1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the 
person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;

2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent 
through this mailing list..

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Srinivasu Chakravarthula]

George,
I think it was used to illustrate the scenario. Well, firstly PhD candidate
shouldn't be applying to compete for a clerk post. Overall point is if
scribe qualification is slightly less than what the job is needed should be
enough. If at all that less qualification is a mandate.

Regards,

Srinivasu Chakravarthula - Twitter: http://twitter.com/CSrinivasu/
Website: http://www.srinivasu.org | http://serveominclusion.com

Let's create an inclusive web!

Lead Accessibility Consultant, Informatica


On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 6:41 PM, George Abraham  wrote:

> Just would like to point out that the caliber of a Ph.D is definitely
> higher than a 12th passed. Insisting on the Ph.D to use a 11th passed
> scribe might be a disservice to him. A point to ponder!
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
> Behalf Of Kotian, H P
> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 2:44 PM
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
> the disabled.
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>
> Hi
> If I understand the scenario correct for example the post is for a clerk
> for which the minimum qualification is HSC, there are 2 candidates one a
> post graduate and another a HSC. The qualification to consider for the job
> is HSC and not the qualification of the candidate.
> Therefore the qualification for a scribe should not be HSC passed in this
> case.
>
> I am aware the minimum qualification for clerk is no more HSC. Mentioned
> it for illustration purpose.
>
> Harish.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
> Behalf Of Shweta Mishra
> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 1:51 PM
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
> the disabled. 
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>
> hi friends!
> it means, scribe criteria will be different for for candidates with
> different qualification.
> for example, a post graduate and a twelfth passed candidate is appearing
> for the same competitive exam, then what will be scribe criteria for both
> candidates?
> if a post graduate candidate will bring graduate scribe, then won't it be
> injustice to the twelfth passed candidate? because twelfth passed candidate
> will be allowed to bring maximum eleventh passed scribe.
>
> On 6/26/18, Lyngdoh  wrote:
> > Can someone help me out with scribe for SBI PO 2018 exams... I mean
> > what qualification shall I ask for from my to be scribe then? In the
> > past I have always looked for graduates.
> >
> > On 6/26/18, Asudani, Rajesh  wrote:
> >> Congrats!
> >> Retention of capacity to choose own scribe, though less in
> >> qualification than oneself, along with freedom to use devices, and
> >> meet the scribe two days in advance is a superb victory.
> >>
> >> At least folks now at least, stop using professional scribes.
> >> Accessible exams, if online or computerized, is the ultimate dream.
> >>
> >>
> >> सादर / With thanks & Regards
> >> राजेश आसुदानी Rajesh Asudani
> >> सहायक महाप्रबन्धक AGM
> >> बाजार आसूचना ईकाई MIU
> >> भारतीय रिजर्व बैंक Reserve Bank of India नागपुर Nagpur
> >>
> >> 0712 2806846
> >>
> >> President
> >> VIBEWA
> >> Co-Moderator
> >> VIB-India
> >>
> >> A-pilll = Action coupled with Positivity, Interest, Love, Logic and
> >> laughter.
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
> >> Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani
> >> Sent: 25 June 2018 16:18
> >> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
> >> concerning the disabled.'
> >> Subject: [AI] Scribe guidelines
> >>
> >> Sorry folks for not reporting for 2 days. A lot of you have already
> >> heard what happened but let me explain a few issues
> >>
> >> 1.   You all know that in 2013 we got new guidelines for the use of
> >> scribes. This was far and beyond what had been given by Courts and
> >> definitely more than what we had demanded at different times.
> >>
> >> 2.   So far about one year there was not too much of a problem
> because
> >> no one really implemented the guidelines.
> >>
> >> 3.   Then the penny dropped-U PS C and others started saying that
> >> these
> >> guidelines were unfair.
> >>
> >> 4.   Some of our own VI candidates decided that these guidelines
> gave
> >> them the right to have overqualified or should I say coached writers.
> >>
> >> 5.   Our other VI who suffered because of the special writers
> >> complained
> >> to U P S C and to the Courts-Bombay and Eranakulam I am told.
> >>
> >> 6.   Then the Government set up our committee. We met about 3 times
> >> but
> >> could not agree so the MSJE set up a sub-committee.
> >>
> >> 7.   This subcommittee gave a report which we had to discuss at this
> >> meeting on 20th June.
> >>
> >> 8.   I had shared the sub-committee's report and the comments of U
> PS
> >> C
> >> and SSC.
> >>
> >> 9.   Our meeting started an hour and 

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Sudeshna Bhattacharya]

Hi Friends,
On reading this very interesting and extremely useful discussion, I
could not stop from expressing my observations and view there of.
Firstly in a country like India where there is a huge number of
unemployed youth, it will not be that easy to curb malpractices of
various types in writing exams. We are thinking of malpractices that
can be caused by using scribes by VI candidates only, but it can
happen with any other candidates as well by any other type  of wrong
attitude..  So why to stop VI candidates from choosing scribe of their
own as it was before? Is it the only malpractice going on while
writing any exam?Here I’d like to mention that I don’t support
malpractices by VI but when finding a scribe itself is a great
challenge- particularly in semi urban or rural areas, putting even
more restriction will make the chance of getting a scribe even more
limited..
Secondly I feel, even if the exam authority can build up a pool of
scribes and provides scribe mandatorily to the candidates who are to
use their services,is there any guarantee that every one of them will
be of same qualification or merit? Moreover if a VI candidate finds a
scribe provided by the authority not suitable for him / her to write
the exam only two days before the exam, how the authority will provide
him / her a suitable one within that very short time?won’t it be an
extreme injustice  towards him / her and don’t you feel it will create
a tremendous mental pressure on the candidate?
Thirdly, if we think the case of any exam for any other people, aren’t
there any differences amongst the candidates in regard to
qualification and merit? E. g. in any clerical exam do all the
candidates hold the same HS qualification? Still lots of HS candidates
are appearing the exam knowing fully well that there is very high
possibility of  many candidates with much higher degree and efficiency
being his / her competitor. isn’t it?
Fourthly, if we talk about professional scribes and malpractices
caused by them, lowering educational qualification doesn’t seem to be
a viable solution because in that case, persons interested to be a
scribe in profession, will learn the subjects of competitive exams
only irrespective of their qualification and master it. Hence putting
restriction on scribe selection can neither rule out the possibility
of malpractice, nor the use of professional scribes’ service.
Fifth, digital media like EVM, audio recorder for submitting exam
papers is a time taken process in Indian Infrastructural scenario and
its efficiency is also debatable.
Finally, when our objective is to see the well being of the VI
community as a whole, and at the same time getting a suitable scribe
is really tough task,just in an attempt to eliminate malpractice and
use of professional scribes, I think, instead of putting restriction
on scribe selection process and blaming our own community  for using
unethical means, we should rely on the basic ethics of our own
community  and prepare for the exams to come. the scribe selection
should be with the candidates only to ensure availability and prior
exam interaction. The responsibility to curb the malpractice should
lie with the exam authority’s stringent invigilation  as well. For
providing Independent writing experience to the candidates, the online
exam platform should be fully accessible and the specified computers
should be equipped with open source assistive softwares.

All your criticisms against my view are most welcome.

Thanks and regards,
Sudeshna Bhattacharya



On 6/27/18, Kanchan Pamnani  wrote:
>
> In reply to your 2.At the harshest level I can suggest that you ask the
> Examining Authorities to get you a writer. Also there is a rule of not less
> than matriculation. So 9th standard is not required.
> As far as 3 is concerned  yes your brother will have different level of
> writer.
> This is to prevent your brother from having a overqualified scribe.
> Please understand that this matter has been going on for 12 years. We are
> reviewing the 2013 guidelines only because some of us decided to circumvent
> the law .. -
> Kanchan
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf
> Of Yogesh Chhabra
> Sent: 26 June 2018 19:23
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
> the disabled.
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>
> respected members and kanchan mam,
> after reading the proposed guidelines I have some queries and situations
> which I am unable to see the solutions, 1, according to the proposed
> guidelines, the scribe should be one class below the candidates
> qualification then suppose if I am a language student like German and I am
> appearing for my first year exam. At this time who will be my scribe? whom
> should I take as a scribe for my first year examination? I am asking this
> because no one can read german or any other language and according to this
> situation I need to take one class 

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Kanchan Pamnani]

In reply to your 2.At the harshest level I can suggest that you ask the 
Examining Authorities to get you a writer. Also there is a rule of not less 
than matriculation. So 9th standard is not required.
As far as 3 is concerned  yes your brother will have different level of writer. 
This is to prevent your brother from having a overqualified scribe. 
Please understand that this matter has been going on for 12 years. We are 
reviewing the 2013 guidelines only because some of us decided to circumvent the 
law .. -
Kanchan
-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of 
Yogesh Chhabra
Sent: 26 June 2018 19:23
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the 
disabled.
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

respected members and kanchan mam,
after reading the proposed guidelines I have some queries and situations which 
I am unable to see the solutions, 1, according to the proposed guidelines, the 
scribe should be one class below the candidates qualification then suppose if I 
am a language student like German and I am appearing for my first year exam. At 
this time who will be my scribe? whom should I take as a scribe for my first 
year examination? I am asking this because no one can read german or any other 
language and according to this situation I need to take one class lower scribe, 
that means in my case the 12th standard or below 12th class student. similarly, 
there are many courses in JNU and other universities like French, Spanish, ETC. 
who will be the scribe for such students in their first year course?
2. If I am a student of 11th standard and I have taken maths as one of my 
subject then I have to take 10th standard student as my scribe, but at the time 
of my examinations, the 10th standard students are also having their 
examination so I have no choice and I have to take 9th standard student to 
write my math examination. here the situation is that the 11th standard math 
and 9th standard's math is totally different and most of the things will be new 
for the scribe and he will find it difficult to read it for me. so in this 
situation, who will be my scribe?
3. suppose me and my brother are appearing for the railway examination and we 
both are visually impaired. my qualification is post graduate and my brother's 
qualification is 12th standard and both are eligible for this examination. 
according to the proposed scribe guidelines, I can take the scribe who is 
pursuing post graduation and my brother can take the 11th standard scribe only.
This situation will occur in the SSC 12th standard higher secondary level 
examination also.

so friends, what are the solutions for these situations?

On 6/26/18, Siva Suresh  wrote:
> waw! amazing discussion. it was very helpful and people will be 
> greatly benifited if we have a strong guidelines for getting scribes.
> at the same time we should support the people who are talking on our 
> behalf. I thank Kanchan for your great effort to support every 
> visually impaired friends across india. it was a very helpful 
> discussion for every one.
>
> Thank you. Shivasuresh
>
>
> On 6/26/18, Kanchan Pamnani  wrote:
>> Shweta please don’t say you cant get a scribe because the Authorities 
>> are saying that they will provide and we don’t have to worry.
>> All my effort will go to nought.
>> K
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On 
>> Behalf Of Shweta Mishra
>> Sent: 26 June 2018 16:30
>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues 
>> concerning the disabled.
>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>
>> but bhawani sir, it'll be very difficult for many candidates to get a 
>> good studying scribe,because these days, students are very busy in 
>> their own assignments. then how will they be able to  give their 
>> precious time to some one?
>>
>> On 6/26/18, bhawani shankar verma  wrote:
>>> the qualification of the scribe should be one standard less what the 
>>> post requires not the qualification of candidate. if a clerk exam 
>>> requires minimum 12th pass then the scribe should be at 11th standard.
>>> no matter the education of candidate whether is PHD or 12th. this 
>>> means a PHD qualified candidate can bring 11th pass person for scribe.
>>> only the regular students or studying candidates should be allowed 
>>> as scribe.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Shweta Mishra
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 3:34 PM
>>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues 
>>> concerning the disabled.
>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>>
>>> right Kanchan mam.
>>> but according to me, if a PHD candidate is allow to bring a graduate 
>>> scribe, then the twelfth passed candidate should also be allowed to 
>>> bring graduate scribe.
>>>
>>> On 6/26/18, Kanchan Pamnani  wrote:
 No Harish. Shweta was more right than you.
 So lets go 

Re: [AI] Blind concession on Tatkal train tickets?

[bhawani shankar verma]

no, there is no concession on tatkal, duranto, janshatabdi, garibrath,
suvidha, antyodaya trains etc.

On Wed, 27 Jun 2018, 8:30 a.m. Rishi Kewalramani, <
rishi.kewalram...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Friends,
> Do the V I get concession on Tatkal train tickets?Thanks, Rishi
>
>
>
>
>
> Search for old postings at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/
>
> To unsubscribe send a message to
> accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in
> with the subject unsubscribe.
>
> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes,
> please visit the list home page at
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>
>
> Disclaimer:
> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of
> the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;
>
> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails
> sent through this mailing list..
>



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Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Kanchan Pamnani]

I would think that if the University approaches you then minimum matriculation 
and no other restriction except that the writer and candidate must meet 2 days 
in advance. 
In case the candidate approaches you then the only restriction is that the 
writer must be less qualified than the candidate. 
Kanchan 

-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of 
Dhananjay Bhole
Sent: 27 June 2018 13:35
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the 
disabled.
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

Dear All,


Very important discussion going on.
I would like to know what are the rules/guidelines for institutions providing 
scribe from their side?
Being coordinator of disability support services of Pune University I have to 
provide scribes to students appearing exam in university department and 
affiliated colleges. Some times we provide a senior person like research 
associate or teaching assistant who acts as a scribe and superviser as well. Is 
it allowed? This practice eliminate mal practices and also helpful to students 
with visual impairment as such persons can understand what student is dictating.
Also Many departmental heads or examination centre chief consult to coordinator 
of disability support service for specific cases such as what type of scribe 
should be provided to MBA student. Whether the scribe should be from non 
management non commerce background? I suggest them that the scribe should be 
from same discipline but 1 year lower qualification. EG if student is appearing 
second year MCA the scribe should be from First year MCA or lower. Not from 
social science background. If student is comfortable with other stream, they 
can go for it.

Keeping rational in mind, we manipulate some rules for the convenience of 
students and institutes. There should be guidelines for institutes as well 
which provides scribes to students.

I remembered that I was given a clurck as my scribe in CSIR NET exam who was 
not able to understand and read and write several terminologies of science and 
mathematics. I struggled a lot there.
Exam aspirents with visual impairment should not face such issues if scribe is 
provided by institutes conducting exams.

Regards
On 6/26/18, Shweta Mishra  wrote:
> hi friends!
> it means, scribe criteria will be different for for candidates with 
> different qualification.
> for example, a post graduate and a twelfth passed candidate is 
> appearing for the same competitive exam, then what will be scribe 
> criteria for both candidates?
> if a post graduate candidate will bring graduate scribe, then won't it 
> be injustice to the twelfth passed candidate? because twelfth passed 
> candidate will be allowed to bring maximum eleventh passed scribe.
>
> On 6/26/18, Lyngdoh  wrote:
>> Can someone help me out with scribe for SBI PO 2018 exams... I mean 
>> what qualification shall I ask for from my to be scribe then? In the 
>> past I have always looked for graduates.
>>
>> On 6/26/18, Asudani, Rajesh  wrote:
>>> Congrats!
>>> Retention of capacity to choose own scribe, though less in 
>>> qualification than oneself, along with freedom to use devices, and 
>>> meet the scribe two days in advance is a superb victory.
>>>
>>> At least folks now at least, stop using professional scribes.
>>> Accessible exams, if online or computerized, is the ultimate dream.
>>>
>>>
>>> सादर / With thanks & Regards
>>> राजेश आसुदानी Rajesh Asudani
>>> सहायक महाप्रबन्धक AGM
>>> बाजार आसूचना ईकाई MIU
>>> भारतीय रिजर्व बैंक Reserve Bank of India नागपुर Nagpur
>>>
>>> 0712 2806846
>>>
>>> President
>>> VIBEWA
>>> Co-Moderator
>>> VIB-India
>>>
>>> A-pilll = Action coupled with Positivity, Interest, Love, Logic and 
>>> laughter.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On 
>>> Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani
>>> Sent: 25 June 2018 16:18
>>> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues 
>>> concerning the disabled.'
>>> Subject: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>>
>>> Sorry folks for not reporting for 2 days. A lot of you have already 
>>> heard what happened but let me explain a few issues
>>>
>>> 1.   You all know that in 2013 we got new guidelines for the use of
>>> scribes. This was far and beyond what had been given by Courts and 
>>> definitely more than what we had demanded at different times.
>>>
>>> 2.   So far about one year there was not too much of a problem
>>> because
>>> no one really implemented the guidelines.
>>>
>>> 3.   Then the penny dropped-U PS C and others started saying that
>>> these
>>> guidelines were unfair.
>>>
>>> 4.   Some of our own VI candidates decided that these guidelines gave
>>> them the right to have overqualified or should I say coached writers.
>>>
>>> 5.   Our other VI who suffered because of the special writers
>>> complained
>>> to U P S C and to the Courts-Bombay and Eranakulam I am told.

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Kanchan Pamnani]

Dhananjay Please get in touch with Rosy at NCPEDP. Kanchan  

-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf
Of Dhananjay Bhole
Sent: 27 June 2018 13:57
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
the disabled.
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

Hello Bhagyashri,

blaming examination system and syllabus is not good. requesting consession
for persons with disabilities will not be going to solve problem. The
reasoning, logic and quantitative aptitude is only matriculation and +2
level. Since students with visual impairment do not take interest in
mathematics and allied abstract cources even in secondary schools level
throw them in to challenges. Preparing for compitative exams requires
dedication. Only filling forms and appearing exam with little preparation
cannot qualify exams. I have appeared for IBPS HR scale 1 exam with
preparation and qualified in 2011. That may be due to my science background.
But I also didn't have mathematics in 8,9th, and 10th standard. I learn
engineering mathematics like calculus, differential equation while pursuing
my M.Sc. bioinformatics. I think we should not demand consession. Instead we
should demand facilities and get ready for challenges.

Regards
On 6/27/18, Mujeeb Rahman  wrote:
> Hi
>
> Good discussion going on.. and would like to add the following points too.
>
> 1. Scribe should not be overqualified than the post qualification to 
> avoid malpractices. However, for academical purposes, a seporate guide 
> line should be framed.
> 2 Scribe should be provided by the authorities to make sure the 
> availability.
> 3. . must be permitted to interact with the scribe before the exam to 
> brief him .
> 4. The guideline should be applicable to all the examining authorities 
> including state PSCs.
> As far as the Kerala PSC is concerned, the situation is worse and we a 
> group of candidates are seeking the legal possibilities to amend the 
> prevailing rules as its yet to follow the RPWD act 2018. Request 
> guidance from Kanchan ma'am and others.
> On 6/25/18, Kanchan Pamnani  wrote:
>> Sorry folks for not reporting for 2 days. A lot of you have already 
>> heard what happened but let me explain a few issues
>>
>> 1.   You all know that in 2013 we got new guidelines for the use of
>> scribes. This was far and beyond what had been given by Courts and 
>> definitely more than what we had demanded at different times.
>>
>> 2.   So far about one year there was not too much of a problem
>> because
>> no one really implemented the guidelines.
>>
>> 3.   Then the penny dropped-U PS C and others started saying that
>> these
>> guidelines were unfair.
>>
>> 4.   Some of our own VI candidates decided that these guidelines gave
>> them the right to have overqualified or should I say coached writers.
>>
>> 5.   Our other VI who suffered because of the special writers
>> complained
>> to U P S C and to the Courts-Bombay and Eranakulam I am told.
>>
>> 6.   Then the Government set up our committee. We met about 3 times
>> but
>> could not agree so the MSJE set up a sub-committee.
>>
>> 7.   This subcommittee gave a report which we had to discuss at this
>> meeting on 20th June.
>>
>> 8.   I had shared the sub-committee's report and the comments of U PS
>> C
>> and SSC.
>>
>> 9.   Our meeting started an hour and half late because the Secretary
>> had
>> gone to meet the Minister.
>>
>> 10.   Before she came in the other committee members gave theiropinion on
>> the subcommittees report. Only Mr. Rungta and I were left to give our 
>> comments when the Secretary arrived and we started the formal meeting.
>>
>> 11.   It was quite a hot debate.
>>
>> 12.   The problem with govt agencies is that they don't send the same
>> person
>> to the followup meetings. This includes U P S C and our own NIVH. 
>> This hampers progressive discussion and we cannot pin the representative
down.
>>
>> 13.   There was no problem with compensatory time etc. The
>> recommendations
>> of the Sub-committee were accepted.
>>
>> 14.   So what have we won or should I say retained-the first right of the
>> candidate to choose his scribe. If not available then the Examining 
>> body can provide not less than a matriculate.
>>
>> 15.   Further you can meet your scribe 2 days in advance.
>>
>> 16.   Some other devices etc for other disabilities that can be used.Our
>> committee added to Sub committee recommendations. This added to the 
>> original guidelines.
>>
>> 17.   The only problem with the subcommittee's  suggestion is that they
>> are
>> not allowing you to use your own laptop. I however feel that this 
>> should not be in the guidelines.  I know atleast 2 members on this 
>> list who have used their own laptops and didn't have a problem after 
>> explanations. This may be considered to be a loss and squarely 
>> attributable to the subcommittee.
>>
>> 18.   Now the loss that will bother 

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Dhananjay Bhole]

Hello Bhagyashri,

blaming examination system and syllabus is not good. requesting
consession for persons with disabilities will not be going to solve
problem. The reasoning, logic and quantitative aptitude is only
matriculation and +2  level. Since students with visual impairment do
not take interest in mathematics and allied abstract cources even in
secondary schools level throw them in to challenges. Preparing for
compitative exams requires dedication. Only filling forms and
appearing exam with little preparation cannot qualify exams. I have
appeared for IBPS HR scale 1 exam with preparation and qualified in
2011. That may be due to my science background. But I also didn't have
mathematics in 8,9th, and 10th standard. I learn engineering
mathematics like calculus, differential equation while pursuing my
M.Sc. bioinformatics. I think we should not demand consession. Instead
we should demand facilities and get ready for challenges.

Regards
On 6/27/18, Mujeeb Rahman  wrote:
> Hi
>
> Good discussion going on.. and would like to add the following points too.
>
> 1. Scribe should not be overqualified than the post qualification to
> avoid malpractices. However, for academical purposes, a seporate guide
> line should be framed.
> 2 Scribe should be provided by the authorities to make sure the
> availability.
> 3. . must be permitted to interact with the scribe before the exam to
> brief him .
> 4. The guideline should be applicable to all the examining authorities
> including state PSCs.
> As far as the Kerala PSC is concerned, the situation is worse and we a
> group of candidates are seeking the legal possibilities to amend the
> prevailing rules as its yet to follow the RPWD act 2018. Request
> guidance from Kanchan ma'am and others.
> On 6/25/18, Kanchan Pamnani  wrote:
>> Sorry folks for not reporting for 2 days. A lot of you have already heard
>> what happened but let me explain a few issues
>>
>> 1.   You all know that in 2013 we got new guidelines for the use of
>> scribes. This was far and beyond what had been given by Courts and
>> definitely more than what we had demanded at different times.
>>
>> 2.   So far about one year there was not too much of a problem
>> because
>> no one really implemented the guidelines.
>>
>> 3.   Then the penny dropped-U PS C and others started saying that
>> these
>> guidelines were unfair.
>>
>> 4.   Some of our own VI candidates decided that these guidelines gave
>> them the right to have overqualified or should I say coached writers.
>>
>> 5.   Our other VI who suffered because of the special writers
>> complained
>> to U P S C and to the Courts-Bombay and Eranakulam I am told.
>>
>> 6.   Then the Government set up our committee. We met about 3 times
>> but
>> could not agree so the MSJE set up a sub-committee.
>>
>> 7.   This subcommittee gave a report which we had to discuss at this
>> meeting on 20th June.
>>
>> 8.   I had shared the sub-committee's report and the comments of U PS
>> C
>> and SSC.
>>
>> 9.   Our meeting started an hour and half late because the Secretary
>> had
>> gone to meet the Minister.
>>
>> 10.   Before she came in the other committee members gave theiropinion on
>> the subcommittees report. Only Mr. Rungta and I were left to give our
>> comments when the Secretary arrived and we started the formal meeting.
>>
>> 11.   It was quite a hot debate.
>>
>> 12.   The problem with govt agencies is that they don't send the same
>> person
>> to the followup meetings. This includes U P S C and our own NIVH. This
>> hampers progressive discussion and we cannot pin the representative down.
>>
>> 13.   There was no problem with compensatory time etc. The
>> recommendations
>> of the Sub-committee were accepted.
>>
>> 14.   So what have we won or should I say retained-the first right of the
>> candidate to choose his scribe. If not available then the Examining body
>> can
>> provide not less than a matriculate.
>>
>> 15.   Further you can meet your scribe 2 days in advance.
>>
>> 16.   Some other devices etc for other disabilities that can be used.Our
>> committee added to Sub committee recommendations. This added to the
>> original
>> guidelines.
>>
>> 17.   The only problem with the subcommittee's  suggestion is that they
>> are
>> not allowing you to use your own laptop. I however feel that this should
>> not
>> be in the guidelines.  I know atleast 2 members on this list who have
>> used
>> their own laptops and didn't have a problem after explanations. This may
>> be
>> considered to be a loss and squarely attributable to the subcommittee.
>>
>> 18.   Now the loss that will bother us some day-the scribe has to be less
>> in
>> qualification than the candidate.
>>
>> 19.   So this guideline has got nothing to do with the exam but only with
>> the candidate. Keeping in mind that the minimum educational qualification
>> for a scribe is matriculation. This does not sound too bad but ground
>> realities will tell.
>>

[AI] These blind massage therapists can heal your knots with their touch

[Ramya Venkitesh]

Source - https://newzhook.com/story/18779  

As Lata Sadashiv gently strokes the base of your neck, the phrase 'healing
touch' starts to make perfect sense. A blind massage therapist at Sparsh
Foot Spa in Mumbai, her fingers seem to know exactly which spot to hit. It
is a skill that speaks volumes not only about Lata's years of experience,
but also the strong desire to help and heal people.

Sparsh is an initiative of NGO Trinayani. Since it was founded in 2006, the
NGO has been working towards creating awareness about disabilities and equal
opportunities for disabled people.

The Sparsh Foot Spa spa is self-sustaining and managed and run by trained
blind therapists. The idea of starting such an initiative was to change
perceptions and attitudes towards people who are blind and visually
impaired, says Ritika Sahni, founder of Trinayani.

"Blind people are perhaps the most empowered among the disabled community in
India, but there are many who do not get the opportunities. People also have
so many misconceptions about the blind. So, here we also train them on how
to speak to clients. I tell them to self-advocate" - Ritika Sahni, Founder,
Trinayani

The spa started off with six therapists, all of them trained at the National
Association for the Blind. The spa is located at Kandivali, a bustling
suburb in Mumbai. It is managed by Lata and Ramesh Mangilal Chauhan, who
joined the spa two years ago.

Ramesh, 29 years old, also underwent a six-month training in massage therapy
from the Victoria School for the Blind in Mumbai.

"I am visually impaired since birth and can only distinguish between light
and dark. After completing Class 12 in Nagpur, I was seriously worried about
career options. A friend told me about massage therapy training in Mumbai
and that is now I came to this city and found a job" - Ramesh Mangilal
Chauhan, Blind massage therapist, Sparsh Foot Spa

The Sparsh Foot Spa is open six days a week, Tuesdays to Sundays, 10 am to 7
pm. The range of services offered in quite extensive, from a full body
massage, foot reflexology, acupressure, and a back and shoulder massage. The
costs are kept nominal. Home visits are offered too, but only to known
clients or through references.

"This is a different community to work with in some ways. We gauge so much
with our eyes so there is some mistrust, which is understandable. We conduct
motivational sessions every day here. At times, they have been cheated, but
we tell them it is not because they are blind. The person concerned would
have cheated anyway" - Ritika Sahni, Founder, Trinayani

28-year-old Lata, who commutes nearly two hours to work every day, says
working at Trinayani has exposed her to a range of experiences. Sparsh Foot
Spa stalls have now become a familiar site across malls, marathons, and
corporate offices in Mumbai.

"I have many regular clients who come to me for various services which feels
really good. People call us for functions to their homes. When clients
praise us, it feels really good. I feel happy that I am able to help them" -
Lata Sadashiv, Blind massage therapist, Sparsh Foot Spa

However, there are the odd clients who are superstitious and refuse to get
their feet massaged by a blind person because they think it a sin. There are
also insensitive statements at times that question their ability to travel
by public transport or to do the job at all.

Comments that Lata handles by staying mentally strong.

"I never get defeated. Because if you get beaten, then there is no life, no
future. You cannot live that way" - Lata Sadashiv, Blind massage therapist,
Sparsh Foot Spa

A truly inspiring attitude that will go a long way towards changing
attitudes towards people with disabilities!

To find out more about Sparsh Foot Spa or to check out their services, call
022-28697390.

For your daily dose of news log on to www.newzhook.com
  

Regards

Ramya

 




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[AI] Urgent opening for B.com

[Rahul Bhatia]

Hi all,
Hope all are doing well,
There is urgent opening for a B.com candidate for DOW chemical for
mumbai location,
Interested candidates send their CV's to Mr Neelesh Nayak at
nayak.neel...@tcs.com  or for more details contact him on 9029353638
after 7PM in evening.


-- 
Thanks & Regards
Rahul Bhatia




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2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent 
through this mailing list..

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Dhananjay Bhole]

Dear All,


Very important discussion going on.
I would like to know what are the rules/guidelines for institutions
providing scribe from their side?
Being coordinator of disability support services of Pune University I
have to provide scribes to students appearing exam in university
department and affiliated colleges. Some times we provide a senior
person like research associate or teaching assistant who acts as a
scribe and superviser as well. Is it allowed? This practice eliminate
mal practices and also helpful to students with visual impairment as
such persons can understand what student is dictating.
Also Many departmental heads or examination centre chief consult to
coordinator of disability support service for specific cases such as
what type of scribe should be provided to MBA student. Whether the
scribe should be from non management non commerce background? I
suggest them that the scribe should be from same discipline but 1
year lower qualification. EG if student is appearing second year MCA
the scribe should be from First year MCA or lower. Not from social
science background. If student is comfortable with other stream, they
can go for it.

Keeping rational in mind, we manipulate some rules for the convenience
of students and institutes. There should be guidelines for institutes
as well which provides scribes to students.

I remembered that I was given a clurck as my scribe in CSIR NET exam
who was not able to understand and read and write several
terminologies of science and mathematics. I struggled a lot there.
Exam aspirents with visual impairment should not face such issues if
scribe is provided by institutes conducting exams.

Regards
On 6/26/18, Shweta Mishra  wrote:
> hi friends!
> it means, scribe criteria will be different for for candidates with
> different qualification.
> for example, a post graduate and a twelfth passed candidate is
> appearing for the same competitive exam, then what will be scribe
> criteria for both candidates?
> if a post graduate candidate will bring graduate scribe, then won't it
> be injustice to the twelfth passed candidate? because twelfth passed
> candidate will be allowed to bring maximum eleventh passed scribe.
>
> On 6/26/18, Lyngdoh  wrote:
>> Can someone help me out with scribe for SBI PO 2018 exams... I mean
>> what qualification shall I ask for from my to be scribe then? In the
>> past I have always looked for graduates.
>>
>> On 6/26/18, Asudani, Rajesh  wrote:
>>> Congrats!
>>> Retention of capacity to choose own scribe, though less in qualification
>>> than oneself, along with freedom to use devices, and meet the scribe two
>>> days in advance is a superb victory.
>>>
>>> At least folks now at least, stop using professional scribes.
>>> Accessible exams, if online or computerized, is the ultimate dream.
>>>
>>>
>>> सादर / With thanks & Regards
>>> राजेश आसुदानी Rajesh Asudani
>>> सहायक महाप्रबन्धक AGM
>>> बाजार आसूचना ईकाई MIU
>>> भारतीय रिजर्व बैंक Reserve Bank of India
>>> नागपुर Nagpur
>>>
>>> 0712 2806846
>>>
>>> President
>>> VIBEWA
>>> Co-Moderator
>>> VIB-India
>>>
>>> A-pilll = Action coupled with Positivity, Interest, Love, Logic and
>>> laughter.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Kanchan Pamnani
>>> Sent: 25 June 2018 16:18
>>> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>>> concerning
>>> the disabled.'
>>> Subject: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>>
>>> Sorry folks for not reporting for 2 days. A lot of you have already heard
>>> what happened but let me explain a few issues
>>>
>>> 1.   You all know that in 2013 we got new guidelines for the use of
>>> scribes. This was far and beyond what had been given by Courts and
>>> definitely more than what we had demanded at different times.
>>>
>>> 2.   So far about one year there was not too much of a problem
>>> because
>>> no one really implemented the guidelines.
>>>
>>> 3.   Then the penny dropped-U PS C and others started saying that
>>> these
>>> guidelines were unfair.
>>>
>>> 4.   Some of our own VI candidates decided that these guidelines gave
>>> them the right to have overqualified or should I say coached writers.
>>>
>>> 5.   Our other VI who suffered because of the special writers
>>> complained
>>> to U P S C and to the Courts-Bombay and Eranakulam I am told.
>>>
>>> 6.   Then the Government set up our committee. We met about 3 times
>>> but
>>> could not agree so the MSJE set up a sub-committee.
>>>
>>> 7.   This subcommittee gave a report which we had to discuss at this
>>> meeting on 20th June.
>>>
>>> 8.   I had shared the sub-committee's report and the comments of U PS
>>> C
>>> and SSC.
>>>
>>> 9.   Our meeting started an hour and half late because the Secretary
>>> had
>>> gone to meet the Minister.
>>>
>>> 10.   Before she came in the other committee members gave theiropinion on
>>> the subcommittees report. Only Mr. Rungta and I 

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[BHAGYASHREE GANDHI]

I have been giving Banking exams since 4 years.
 But, could not clear in-spite of all necessary efforts, due to very
high cutoff of visually impaired catagory resulting out of scribe
misuse.
 The main reason for scribe misuse is due to the existing patern of
most competitive exams.
 If the patern of exam continues as it is, then it is imposible for a
completely visually impaired candidate to clear without scribe
interfearence.
 Even if the scribe guidelines are changed, or the exam is made
accessible, the problem is not going to be solved, as the patern will
be the same.
 Firstly, There are some very complicated questions in Quantitative
aptitude and reasoning sections, which generally the scribes are not
in a position to explain a totally blind candidate.
 I feel, the solution on this problem is, the patern of competitive
exams should be changed.
 Then only a visually impaired candidate will be able to independently
solve the paper.
 Secondly, Just by making the exam accessible with screen reader won't
work, if the patern of questions, pertaining to reasoning and aptitude
sections remains the same.

 Kindly request you to take the above mentioned issues in to
consideration before finalising the decission.
On 6/25/18, Kanchan Pamnani  wrote:
> Sorry folks for not reporting for 2 days. A lot of you have already heard
> what happened but let me explain a few issues
>
> 1.   You all know that in 2013 we got new guidelines for the use of
> scribes. This was far and beyond what had been given by Courts and
> definitely more than what we had demanded at different times.
>
> 2.   So far about one year there was not too much of a problem because
> no one really implemented the guidelines.
>
> 3.   Then the penny dropped-U PS C and others started saying that these
> guidelines were unfair.
>
> 4.   Some of our own VI candidates decided that these guidelines gave
> them the right to have overqualified or should I say coached writers.
>
> 5.   Our other VI who suffered because of the special writers
> complained
> to U P S C and to the Courts-Bombay and Eranakulam I am told.
>
> 6.   Then the Government set up our committee. We met about 3 times but
> could not agree so the MSJE set up a sub-committee.
>
> 7.   This subcommittee gave a report which we had to discuss at this
> meeting on 20th June.
>
> 8.   I had shared the sub-committee's report and the comments of U PS C
> and SSC.
>
> 9.   Our meeting started an hour and half late because the Secretary
> had
> gone to meet the Minister.
>
> 10.   Before she came in the other committee members gave theiropinion on
> the subcommittees report. Only Mr. Rungta and I were left to give our
> comments when the Secretary arrived and we started the formal meeting.
>
> 11.   It was quite a hot debate.
>
> 12.   The problem with govt agencies is that they don't send the same
> person
> to the followup meetings. This includes U P S C and our own NIVH. This
> hampers progressive discussion and we cannot pin the representative down.
>
> 13.   There was no problem with compensatory time etc. The recommendations
> of the Sub-committee were accepted.
>
> 14.   So what have we won or should I say retained-the first right of the
> candidate to choose his scribe. If not available then the Examining body
> can
> provide not less than a matriculate.
>
> 15.   Further you can meet your scribe 2 days in advance.
>
> 16.   Some other devices etc for other disabilities that can be used.Our
> committee added to Sub committee recommendations. This added to the
> original
> guidelines.
>
> 17.   The only problem with the subcommittee's  suggestion is that they are
> not allowing you to use your own laptop. I however feel that this should
> not
> be in the guidelines.  I know atleast 2 members on this list who have used
> their own laptops and didn't have a problem after explanations. This may be
> considered to be a loss and squarely attributable to the subcommittee.
>
> 18.   Now the loss that will bother us some day-the scribe has to be less
> in
> qualification than the candidate.
>
> 19.   So this guideline has got nothing to do with the exam but only with
> the candidate. Keeping in mind that the minimum educational qualification
> for a scribe is matriculation. This does not sound too bad but ground
> realities will tell.
>
> 20.   So the meeting ended about three and half hours later with 2 cups of
> tea and 4 biscuits thrown in. The Secretary will have to report to the
> courts.
>
> 21.   The fact that we have the right to choose our own scribe is going to
> be debated over and over again until we stop the malpractises and each of
> you reading my email or whatsapp need to take care of the situation. You
> are
> responsible for what lies ahead. I know the argument about supervision.
>
> 22.   It is not an easy task to take the whole room on by just 2 people. We
> did it because you gave us strength. We were prepared and many weren't.
> However it 

Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

[Mujeeb Rahman]

Hi

Good discussion going on.. and would like to add the following points too.

1. Scribe should not be overqualified than the post qualification to
avoid malpractices. However, for academical purposes, a seporate guide
line should be framed.
2 Scribe should be provided by the authorities to make sure the availability.
3. . must be permitted to interact with the scribe before the exam to
brief him .
4. The guideline should be applicable to all the examining authorities
including state PSCs.
As far as the Kerala PSC is concerned, the situation is worse and we a
group of candidates are seeking the legal possibilities to amend the
prevailing rules as its yet to follow the RPWD act 2018. Request
guidance from Kanchan ma'am and others.
On 6/25/18, Kanchan Pamnani  wrote:
> Sorry folks for not reporting for 2 days. A lot of you have already heard
> what happened but let me explain a few issues
>
> 1.   You all know that in 2013 we got new guidelines for the use of
> scribes. This was far and beyond what had been given by Courts and
> definitely more than what we had demanded at different times.
>
> 2.   So far about one year there was not too much of a problem because
> no one really implemented the guidelines.
>
> 3.   Then the penny dropped-U PS C and others started saying that these
> guidelines were unfair.
>
> 4.   Some of our own VI candidates decided that these guidelines gave
> them the right to have overqualified or should I say coached writers.
>
> 5.   Our other VI who suffered because of the special writers
> complained
> to U P S C and to the Courts-Bombay and Eranakulam I am told.
>
> 6.   Then the Government set up our committee. We met about 3 times but
> could not agree so the MSJE set up a sub-committee.
>
> 7.   This subcommittee gave a report which we had to discuss at this
> meeting on 20th June.
>
> 8.   I had shared the sub-committee's report and the comments of U PS C
> and SSC.
>
> 9.   Our meeting started an hour and half late because the Secretary
> had
> gone to meet the Minister.
>
> 10.   Before she came in the other committee members gave theiropinion on
> the subcommittees report. Only Mr. Rungta and I were left to give our
> comments when the Secretary arrived and we started the formal meeting.
>
> 11.   It was quite a hot debate.
>
> 12.   The problem with govt agencies is that they don't send the same
> person
> to the followup meetings. This includes U P S C and our own NIVH. This
> hampers progressive discussion and we cannot pin the representative down.
>
> 13.   There was no problem with compensatory time etc. The recommendations
> of the Sub-committee were accepted.
>
> 14.   So what have we won or should I say retained-the first right of the
> candidate to choose his scribe. If not available then the Examining body
> can
> provide not less than a matriculate.
>
> 15.   Further you can meet your scribe 2 days in advance.
>
> 16.   Some other devices etc for other disabilities that can be used.Our
> committee added to Sub committee recommendations. This added to the
> original
> guidelines.
>
> 17.   The only problem with the subcommittee's  suggestion is that they are
> not allowing you to use your own laptop. I however feel that this should
> not
> be in the guidelines.  I know atleast 2 members on this list who have used
> their own laptops and didn't have a problem after explanations. This may be
> considered to be a loss and squarely attributable to the subcommittee.
>
> 18.   Now the loss that will bother us some day-the scribe has to be less
> in
> qualification than the candidate.
>
> 19.   So this guideline has got nothing to do with the exam but only with
> the candidate. Keeping in mind that the minimum educational qualification
> for a scribe is matriculation. This does not sound too bad but ground
> realities will tell.
>
> 20.   So the meeting ended about three and half hours later with 2 cups of
> tea and 4 biscuits thrown in. The Secretary will have to report to the
> courts.
>
> 21.   The fact that we have the right to choose our own scribe is going to
> be debated over and over again until we stop the malpractises and each of
> you reading my email or whatsapp need to take care of the situation. You
> are
> responsible for what lies ahead. I know the argument about supervision.
>
> 22.   It is not an easy task to take the whole room on by just 2 people. We
> did it because you gave us strength. We were prepared and many weren't.
> However it has taken lots of persuasion, anger, raised voices and a lot of
> diplomacy.
>
> 23.   What will let us down is the continuous  use of professional scribes.
>
>
> 24.   Please help by giving me the reference to the Bombay High Court and
> Eranakulam cases. We will have to intervene.
>
> 25.   Thanks to each of you who respond to my urgent requests and give your
> input on these crucial issues.
>
> 26.   It has been 12 years battling this menace. I wish I dint have to face
> a