Re: [AI] distributing books
Further, granting that electronic versions have far more potential for illegal distribution to financial detriment of publisher, hard copies cannot be said to be invulnerable to such distribution. There are shops replete with such pirated hard copies for sighted to save money. Has there been a legal battle involving such pirates? Rajesh Assistant General Manager (PPS), Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 Doth God exact day-labour, light denied? John Milton -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Asudani, Rajesh Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 10:56 AM To: mrmukeshsha...@gmail.com; accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] distributing books Yes, Subramani, You may quote my name while citing my views anywhere. However, I would like to add about the ongoing debate that laws have, for their end, promotion of justice. Thus, justice is paramount and not necessarily the statutes written in black and white on paper. It is the quest for justice which is reflected, in my opinion, in assertions that we may follow our interior laws. It is the quest for justice which prompts to change laws. So, slavish obedience to written laws merely bespeaks of a mechanical mindset, which consists in following letter of the law like a computer follows a programme and even achieves spectacular results. However, a sensitive and sensible soul would often yearn after justice. So, It is not clearly just when a visually challenged person does not get accessible reading material. To remedy this injustice, we may, individually convert the material into accessible formats and provide it to those who require it. Publishers come into picture only when we collectively do so, or publicly announce availability of such accessible material. Now, justice demands that they should also get monitory reward for what they own, as it has been put here. However, they should be able to sell what is required by the customer and not dog food to humans. Now, even though Dipendra has asserted with a few examples that they are ready to convert dog food to human food given the essential safeguards that it would not be supplied to others to publishers' monitory loss. However, we want each and every publisher to be so willing, if not voluntarily compelled by law to do so, as it is the course reducing injustice to minimum regarding right to read of VI is concerned. When we are setting up a few public platforms for making availability known, or even actually making the book available, we are only symbolically breaking the laws, for there books so available would not constitute more than ten percent of published copyright material available at a given time. So, apart from this symbolic disobedience, if negotiations and treaties can make way for all to read at an affordable cost and without extra effort, I would welcome that day. Till then, let us keep up negotiations and symbolic acts of book satya graha. I hope, in this blind community is not indulging in naxalite violence! Rajesh Asudani Assistant General Manager (PPS), Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 Doth God exact day-labour, light denied? John Milton -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Mukesh Sharma Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 6:20 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] distributing books In the below example, you care about the seller's right to get money of the products he supplies, you are converting the product you purchased and thus the seller is getting what he is entitled to. However in case if you rob him and then convert the food for your use, then? I know, you too will agree it's being immoral and illegal too. The distribution of food is fully justified because you own the raw material and the effort you put in to convert but what if some one robs you for his hunger? How would you feel? I do understand you are doing it for a cause and it is important to note and understand that transformation of social order can not be and never been silent or without a pain or even not confirming to all laws and morals. And on top of that the right to read is not of equal degree to the right to food. Kill the sin and not the sinner, the sin here in our case is the lack of awareness among the publishers, lack of infrastructure for providing accessible books, lack of inclusiveness in copyright act. Thanks Mukesh -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Asudani, Rajesh Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 5:31 PM To: mrmukeshsha...@gmail.com; accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] distributing books Suppose I am in a country of dogs where only dog food is supplied. I am obliged to purchase
Re: [AI] distributing books
Folks: With the permission of those commented on the list and with the permission of the moderator, I would like to pass a few of the comments to my editor; she has agreed to reserve a full page for the campaign (R2R) and wanted more material. I told her the material is available in plenty since she wanted comments for and against exchange of materials in alternative format without legal approval. Pl let me know off the list if your individual comments can be used with your name. Subramani -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Vetrivel Adhimoolam Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 5:55 AM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] distributing books I think instead of fighting over words, this is one issue that requires social activism. It is the high time that we demand the government of India to pass suitable law to make books/other printed materials available to the visually challenged persons in accessible format. Unless our energy gets mobilized in this direction, this threat is going to lead us nowhere. Perhaps a few others will comment, someone will throw personalized statements, the moderator finally will intervene and put a full stop and the issue will vanish from the radar. I am sure that those who care about accessibility are not looking for such an useless end to this meaningful debate. Just my thoughts. Vetri. - Original Message - From: Vamshi. G gvamsh...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [AI] distributing books HI, If converting books into accessible format is piracy, what is taking xerox copies of those books. Doesn't it amount to piracy and violating the laws? So, ask those lakhs of xerox shop keepers to close their shops first, and then we will think of copyrights in India. Once I went to I I M, Banglore and I found a xerox shop where we can take xerox copies of books, journals and even some portion of their PhD theses. So, when a premier educational institution in India is doing it openly, why should we refrain ourselves from doing so? -- G. Vamshi PH Res : +91 877-2243861 Mobile: +91 9949349497 E-mail ID: gvamsh...@gmail.com Skype: gvamshi81 God helps those who help themselves On 10/9/09, Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in wrote: So dinesh, You are essentially saying that: 1. We should do our book related transactions through organizations of and for blind like NAB which can provide e text and daisy books to legally disabled persons on request. 2. refrain from publicly ask for books or post their availability notifications in fora of blind/disabled like AI Bookbole as it would entail their destruction sooner or later, and may make a book available to a non-disabled person. Now, here, what even such organizations are doing is nothing but violation of copyrights, till the law is amended at least. Making a fundamental right an exclusively institutionalized and secretive act, in my opinion, is cowardly and oversubmissive. I truly appreciate bookbole for their courage and openness. World, according to me, operates on extremely surfacical grounds and superfluous way. Authors and publishers are not at all going to feel the need for making the materials accessible until they feel a pinch in their pockets by mass distributions of their copyrighted works amongst the disabled. Anyway piracy is not highly uncommon even for general masses, so heavens are not going to fall if a few deserving disabled benefit. Besides, my earlier argument about widening the reach of books to individuals who otherwise would never have got a chance to appreciate them, remains to be answered by anybody. Besides, there is no justification of copyright or non-availability about educational books in accessible format to all. UNCRPD talks of access to cultural material and IPR not being a barrier to it. So, what are books but manifestations of cultural conscious? Exclusively Institutionalizing a basic need and right for the fear that its open manifestation would entail legal proceedings does not appeal to me. There was a time when living of blind/disabled and their pursuits of activity in general community were regarded dangerous and taxing resources too much. So, they were institutionalized as individuals fit for living only in institutions. What is wrong in that? Now, it is felt that books etc. should be provided secretly to disabled by their institutions as we are here for profit earnings and if we concede to demands of few persons with disabilities it would be too expensive and why bother about inferior minorities? So let the business of publishing flourish unabated without being open to widen its prospects of catering to wider but different audience, and let the disabled crave for even the basic of their needs
Re: [AI] distributing books
Hello Friends Most likely, no publisher is going to challenge providing books to blind. How ever, to scale things up and create huge libraries of thousands of copy righted books and share them among every one all over the world, we need provisions in copy right law and need legal back-up. There will always be a fear among most of us till we get legal rights. More over, if we want that books are provided to us the same day as and when they are released, we need cooperation of publishers. This will happen only when we take the path of right to read campaign to let publishers and the society know that we exist and right to read is what we claim. Being law breaker is easy. Changing law is very tough. How ever, in the long run and to be able to get books lawfully in right time in right format we will have to take this tough path. Currently, World Intellectual Property Rights Organisation is deliberating on a treety proposed by the World Blind Union. All stake holders are participating in this negociation. Most knowledgable world leaders of the blindness community and technology experts are fighting this battle. At this time getting together and fighting together to get our right legally can help solve this problem for ever for our country. Publishers are not our animies. They have a right to earn a living out of what they own. They are mostly cooperative for us. How ever, we need to create systems and right technological and legal solutions for them to be able to help us in a systematic way which helps them protect their rights and at the same time gives us the right to read in accessible format. Dipendra Manocha -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of George Abraham Sent: 10 October 2009 04:02 To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] distributing books The need of the hour is social activism, awareness building that focuses on the need for making available books in accessible formats, negotiation and call for legislation. Right to read is ours, but then the authors and publishers too have their rights. It is middle ground that we need to find for a meaningful way forward. This discussion has given me a fair bit of content as possible content for my presentation at the forthcoming Regional Conference being organised by WIPE. - Original Message - From: Vetrivel Adhimoolam vadhimoo...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 5:54 AM Subject: Re: [AI] distributing books I think instead of fighting over words, this is one issue that requires social activism. It is the high time that we demand the government of India to pass suitable law to make books/other printed materials available to the visually challenged persons in accessible format. Unless our energy gets mobilized in this direction, this threat is going to lead us nowhere. Perhaps a few others will comment, someone will throw personalized statements, the moderator finally will intervene and put a full stop and the issue will vanish from the radar. I am sure that those who care about accessibility are not looking for such an useless end to this meaningful debate. Just my thoughts. Vetri. - Original Message - From: Vamshi. G gvamsh...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [AI] distributing books HI, If converting books into accessible format is piracy, what is taking xerox copies of those books. Doesn't it amount to piracy and violating the laws? So, ask those lakhs of xerox shop keepers to close their shops first, and then we will think of copyrights in India. Once I went to I I M, Banglore and I found a xerox shop where we can take xerox copies of books, journals and even some portion of their PhD theses. So, when a premier educational institution in India is doing it openly, why should we refrain ourselves from doing so? -- G. Vamshi PH Res : +91 877-2243861 Mobile: +91 9949349497 E-mail ID: gvamsh...@gmail.com Skype: gvamshi81 God helps those who help themselves On 10/9/09, Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in wrote: So dinesh, You are essentially saying that: 1. We should do our book related transactions through organizations of and for blind like NAB which can provide e text and daisy books to legally disabled persons on request. 2. refrain from publicly ask for books or post their availability notifications in fora of blind/disabled like AI Bookbole as it would entail their destruction sooner or later, and may make a book available to a non-disabled person. Now, here, what even such organizations are doing is nothing but violation of copyrights, till the law is amended at least. Making a fundamental right an exclusively institutionalized and secretive act, in my opinion, is cowardly and oversubmissive. I truly appreciate bookbole for their courage
Re: [AI] distributing books
Gandhiji broke law symbolically to come in the eyes of the government so that with the intention of getting the law changed. This is exactly we need here. Path where we are able to change the law and not justify breaking it. Dipendra Manocha -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Mahesh Panicker Sent: 09 October 2009 13:12 To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] distributing books I think although Dinesh tried to answer some of the issues I put forward, I haven't got anything to justify publishers or libraries including those of centrel universities like Jawaharlal Nehru University, not providing EBooks to disabled, even though the books are available to non-disabled students. and although there are sites like questia.com even those are expensive, and books are not available in portable formats, and you need net connection to read them, as only online reading is possible. if you need academic Ebooks, from publishers like sage or routledge, their sites charge you very high indeed. and if you are buying books, you have to put in additional unpaied labour of scanning them. so being at the wrong end of all these discrimination, I don't see any moral obligation to submit to discriminating laws. what Gandhi asked was not to submit to immoral laws, not using means that are based on arms. in scanning and distributing scanned book, there is no use of arms. On 10/9/09, Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in wrote: So dinesh, You are essentially saying that: 1. We should do our book related transactions through organizations of and for blind like NAB which can provide e text and daisy books to legally disabled persons on request. 2. refrain from publicly ask for books or post their availability notifications in fora of blind/disabled like AI Bookbole as it would entail their destruction sooner or later, and may make a book available to a non-disabled person. Now, here, what even such organizations are doing is nothing but violation of copyrights, till the law is amended at least. Making a fundamental right an exclusively institutionalized and secretive act, in my opinion, is cowardly and oversubmissive. I truly appreciate bookbole for their courage and openness. World, according to me, operates on extremely surfacical grounds and superfluous way. Authors and publishers are not at all going to feel the need for making the materials accessible until they feel a pinch in their pockets by mass distributions of their copyrighted works amongst the disabled. Anyway piracy is not highly uncommon even for general masses, so heavens are not going to fall if a few deserving disabled benefit. Besides, my earlier argument about widening the reach of books to individuals who otherwise would never have got a chance to appreciate them, remains to be answered by anybody. Besides, there is no justification of copyright or non-availability about educational books in accessible format to all. UNCRPD talks of access to cultural material and IPR not being a barrier to it. So, what are books but manifestations of cultural conscious? Exclusively Institutionalizing a basic need and right for the fear that its open manifestation would entail legal proceedings does not appeal to me. There was a time when living of blind/disabled and their pursuits of activity in general community were regarded dangerous and taxing resources too much. So, they were institutionalized as individuals fit for living only in institutions. What is wrong in that? Now, it is felt that books etc. should be provided secretly to disabled by their institutions as we are here for profit earnings and if we concede to demands of few persons with disabilities it would be too expensive and why bother about inferior minorities? So let the business of publishing flourish unabated without being open to widen its prospects of catering to wider but different audience, and let the disabled crave for even the basic of their needs and rights by forming organizations who do the same illegal thing but secretly. Let us bring it out in the open and strongly demand that right to read is the part and parcel of freedom of speech and expression and its illegitimate denial constitutes gross violation of our fundamental rights. Adequate safeguards can be envisaged once the right is recognized and accessibility is taken into account. We have been cowards all these years, fearing even to distribute even educational and informational content. Tagore had said: Let my country awaken into heaven, where every one holds their head high, Where knowledge is free.. And let me add: Accessible. Lending names may not lend credibility to any cause, but it is more than sufficient if one person, say, Rajesh Asudani, thinks in a particular way. I am not bound by dead past and great names. And, yes, I
Re: [AI] distributing books
As Individuals we may convert making use of fare use clause. How ever, collectively, we need to move in right way. I have not seen bad resonse from copyright owners when approahed with adequate infrastructure and systems in place. DFI and Bookshare have many signed contracts to show this. More and more publishers suport and want to work towards this. Thus situation is not that sellors are not willing to convert dog food to human food in any cost. Dipendra Manocha -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Asudani, Rajesh Sent: 09 October 2009 14:01 To: mrmukeshsha...@gmail.com; accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] distributing books Suppose I am in a country of dogs where only dog food is supplied. I am obliged to purchase it and then convert it into human food by any hypothetical means and eat it. I demand that I would purchase the said dog food, if it is processed and converted into human food otherwise not. But sellers insist that they would not do it at any cost. I think I am fully justified to distribute such converted food anyhow obtained to fellow human beings in order to satisfy the human hunger and also to make them-sellers-realize that there is demand for human food and they would do well to process it and earn their due share by selling human food in addition to dog food.. How am I infringing upon the rights of sellers? Further, I am satisfying hunger of few humans who would otherwise have never satisfied hunger as they could not purchase or digest dog food, but were hungry nonetheless. Rajesh Asudani Assistant General Manager (PPS), Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 Doth God exact day-labour, light denied? John Milton -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Mukesh Sharma Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 5:08 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] distributing books Just a simple question, how would you like to ensure the right of the publisher / writer? Or would you simply say no to their right of earning from their hard work? Though I completely understand the right to read and support it completely but the worry is the question Am I stepping on the right of others? is this the right way to secure my rights? I believe, If we ensure the rights of the publishers and authors, their coperation would certainly be with us or at the most we will be striving towards a balanced liberal society. All, please take a note of that argument / disagreement to the ideas / views does not mean disrespect in any manner and if I am hurting anyone , my sincere apologies in advance. Thanks Mukesh -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Mahesh Panicker Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 4:43 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] distributing books I think although Dinesh tried to answer some of the issues I put forward, I haven't got anything to justify publishers or libraries including those of centrel universities like Jawaharlal Nehru University, not providing EBooks to disabled, even though the books are available to non-disabled students. and although there are sites like questia.com even those are expensive, and books are not available in portable formats, and you need net connection to read them, as only online reading is possible. if you need academic Ebooks, from publishers like sage or routledge, their sites charge you very high indeed. and if you are buying books, you have to put in additional unpaied labour of scanning them. so being at the wrong end of all these discrimination, I don't see any moral obligation to submit to discriminating laws. what Gandhi asked was not to submit to immoral laws, not using means that are based on arms. in scanning and distributing scanned book, there is no use of arms. On 10/9/09, Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in wrote: So dinesh, You are essentially saying that: 1. We should do our book related transactions through organizations of and for blind like NAB which can provide e text and daisy books to legally disabled persons on request. 2. refrain from publicly ask for books or post their availability notifications in fora of blind/disabled like AI Bookbole as it would entail their destruction sooner or later, and may make a book available to a non-disabled person. Now, here, what even such organizations are doing is nothing but violation of copyrights, till the law is amended at least. Making a fundamental right an exclusively institutionalized and secretive act, in my opinion, is cowardly and oversubmissive. I truly appreciate bookbole for their courage and openness. World, according to me, operates on extremely surfacical grounds and superfluous way. Authors
Re: [AI] distributing books
Yes, Subramani, You may quote my name while citing my views anywhere. However, I would like to add about the ongoing debate that laws have, for their end, promotion of justice. Thus, justice is paramount and not necessarily the statutes written in black and white on paper. It is the quest for justice which is reflected, in my opinion, in assertions that we may follow our interior laws. It is the quest for justice which prompts to change laws. So, slavish obedience to written laws merely bespeaks of a mechanical mindset, which consists in following letter of the law like a computer follows a programme and even achieves spectacular results. However, a sensitive and sensible soul would often yearn after justice. So, It is not clearly just when a visually challenged person does not get accessible reading material. To remedy this injustice, we may, individually convert the material into accessible formats and provide it to those who require it. Publishers come into picture only when we collectively do so, or publicly announce availability of such accessible material. Now, justice demands that they should also get monitory reward for what they own, as it has been put here. However, they should be able to sell what is required by the customer and not dog food to humans. Now, even though Dipendra has asserted with a few examples that they are ready to convert dog food to human food given the essential safeguards that it would not be supplied to others to publishers' monitory loss. However, we want each and every publisher to be so willing, if not voluntarily compelled by law to do so, as it is the course reducing injustice to minimum regarding right to read of VI is concerned. When we are setting up a few public platforms for making availability known, or even actually making the book available, we are only symbolically breaking the laws, for there books so available would not constitute more than ten percent of published copyright material available at a given time. So, apart from this symbolic disobedience, if negotiations and treaties can make way for all to read at an affordable cost and without extra effort, I would welcome that day. Till then, let us keep up negotiations and symbolic acts of book satya graha. I hope, in this blind community is not indulging in naxalite violence! Rajesh Asudani Assistant General Manager (PPS), Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 Doth God exact day-labour, light denied? John Milton -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Mukesh Sharma Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 6:20 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] distributing books In the below example, you care about the seller's right to get money of the products he supplies, you are converting the product you purchased and thus the seller is getting what he is entitled to. However in case if you rob him and then convert the food for your use, then? I know, you too will agree it's being immoral and illegal too. The distribution of food is fully justified because you own the raw material and the effort you put in to convert but what if some one robs you for his hunger? How would you feel? I do understand you are doing it for a cause and it is important to note and understand that transformation of social order can not be and never been silent or without a pain or even not confirming to all laws and morals. And on top of that the right to read is not of equal degree to the right to food. Kill the sin and not the sinner, the sin here in our case is the lack of awareness among the publishers, lack of infrastructure for providing accessible books, lack of inclusiveness in copyright act. Thanks Mukesh -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Asudani, Rajesh Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 5:31 PM To: mrmukeshsha...@gmail.com; accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] distributing books Suppose I am in a country of dogs where only dog food is supplied. I am obliged to purchase it and then convert it into human food by any hypothetical means and eat it. I demand that I would purchase the said dog food, if it is processed and converted into human food otherwise not. But sellers insist that they would not do it at any cost. I think I am fully justified to distribute such converted food anyhow obtained to fellow human beings in order to satisfy the human hunger and also to make them-sellers-realize that there is demand for human food and they would do well to process it and earn their due share by selling human food in addition to dog food.. How am I infringing upon the rights of sellers? Further, I am satisfying hunger of few humans who would otherwise have never satisfied hunger as they could not purchase or digest dog food, but were hungry nonetheless
Re: [AI] distributing books
Intellectuals, Would not comment on laws and other things which you are discussing. I had a talk with an author recently, and the same question was put forth in front of me. How will you ensure that our E-copies are not going to used for distributing via piracy related sources? Good question, I understand their rights too, so uptill now the only solution which I know is like this. Here comes the development or technical part of my mail. Every publisher has its own website which enables us to place order. Now we get e-copy via whatever mode. Some of them send us the link to download, or some send in cd. Now question of protection. What I saw that one of the institute for law entrance koachings, (Prime Tutor www.primetutor.com), was distributing the solutions of all the previous years papers of major colleges in software form. What they did was they took our machine's number, then generated a user name and password by which we can access the software. Drawback of this system: After you format system, You have to request them again for generating user name and password. I am not saying that still piracy can not be done say what if person after entering into software coppies the data and paste it someware for distribution? But generally people won't do that provided that they have the zeal to pay money if its afortable. So what if publishers develop some system like this for PDF or Documents? I think this is the only way to secure such documents. Regards Amar Jain. - Original Message - From: ashish ashish2...@accessindia.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 9:47 AM Subject: Re: [AI] distributing books no, we can not and must not do this, following laws of our own interior? well I think it is the most dangerous thing, because then no one will follow any law. and situation will go out of hand. when we talk about not following laws that does not limit us to books only. that can endanger your right to live also, so this path should not be adopted. I think first of all we should start an awareness campaign like right to read we should take part in such awareness activities, and secondly help each other by providing books, but we should also take care that books should stay in Visually impaired community. I know this is very difficult and next to impossible but I think until nothing happens we have no other choice. and please note distributing books freely is not going to create awareness but it will create a bad image for us. so need of this time is to create awareness in publishers and talk with ministers and government officers. take care, regards. ashish - Original Message - From: prateek aggarwal prateekagarwa...@gmail.com To: accessindia accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 6:44 PM Subject: Re: [AI] distributing books I don’t know where this thread is onwarding to us, as the matter being so sensitive and more then 1000 listers and their 10 views, seems that it’s enough for anyone to get boggled. I’m wondering why we are still in contention on the legality and illegality of books sharing, as we all somewhat concur about the errors in our existing laws. dear intellectuals, can’t we just forget about the laws created by state and follow the laws of our interior in this matter. I agree to subramani sir, that if it really wounds the hearts of authors, let them come with objections. And, if it doesn’t, we have two options left I.E. either to continue with the same process or to redirect ourselves to the old era of gawky life. Rajesh sir,, hundred percent agreed that Authors and publishers are not at all going to feel the need for making the materials accessible until they feel a pinch in their pockets by mass distributions of their copyrighted works amongst the disabled. The problem is, that even though the books are converted and shared on a good large basis now, yet I don’t remember any author standing against it. Seriously, I want this message to reach to the right ears and let them resist it. for sure they can resist only if they having better alternative, which means agreeing to provide accessible coppies to us. I’ve no problem if the publishers and authors agrees to provide accessible coppies on their original prize, but as the delhi seems too far from now, let’s continue the same and waite for that golden day. In fact, let’s enlarge the sharing, so that we can at least make them awake first. As per is giving the responsibility of distributions to major welfare organization is concern, can you guaranty that the blind persons who have received the books won’t share it with any non print disables? Ok, let me confess here, I’ve already shared a number of programming books with my cited counterparts. Then? who guaranties the legal distribution? About the Gandhi, if I’m correct, he has affirmed “work by your own” and theory of “ramrajya” which meant to follow your own
Re: [AI] distributing books
Secured PDF is not accessible for now. We can use acrobat reader to read ordinary pdf files, but when we want to read secured pdf files, we would need something called AdobeR Digital editions, which is not accessible. Alternatively We need to use acrobat reader v7, which does not work properly on vista. Then there is a problem that some authors disable text to speech in their secured PDF files. Probably, they do not understand its use so they disable it as a safeguard. One solution is that publishers adopt EPub format which has digital rights management as well. But I don't know which software can be used to read such files. The best solution would be to target large ebook publishers such as Amazon, since their scale is large, they would have to provide properly accessible book readers. Currently, Amazon's kindle reader is expensive (Rs. 13000), but with time the cost should go down. Kindle also has text to speech which is not great, but it should improve with time. if one purchases Kindle, one would instantly be able to purchase any book out of 2 lakh books. And the time for all this? They claim a minute. But there is a caveat. An author may choose to disable text to speech function, as some of the authors think that their audio book sail could have a hit due to text to speech function. May be with time, Amazon would come up with a method that text to speech can not be disabled for print impaired readers. In the long run, large scale readers will trump the efforts of special need solutions. So our best bet could be to make sure that these readers are more and more accessible. Another point, ebooks are cheaper than hard copies as of now. -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Amar Jain Sent: 10 October 2009 04:04 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] distributing books Intellectuals, Would not comment on laws and other things which you are discussing. I had a talk with an author recently, and the same question was put forth in front of me. How will you ensure that our E-copies are not going to used for distributing via piracy related sources? Good question, I understand their rights too, so uptill now the only solution which I know is like this. Here comes the development or technical part of my mail. Every publisher has its own website which enables us to place order. Now we get e-copy via whatever mode. Some of them send us the link to download, or some send in cd. Now question of protection. What I saw that one of the institute for law entrance koachings, (Prime Tutor www.primetutor.com), was distributing the solutions of all the previous years papers of major colleges in software form. What they did was they took our machine's number, then generated a user name and password by which we can access the software. Drawback of this system: After you format system, You have to request them again for generating user name and password. I am not saying that still piracy can not be done say what if person after entering into software coppies the data and paste it someware for distribution? But generally people won't do that provided that they have the zeal to pay money if its afortable. So what if publishers develop some system like this for PDF or Documents? I think this is the only way to secure such documents. Regards Amar Jain. - Original Message - From: ashish ashish2...@accessindia.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 9:47 AM Subject: Re: [AI] distributing books no, we can not and must not do this, following laws of our own interior? well I think it is the most dangerous thing, because then no one will follow any law. and situation will go out of hand. when we talk about not following laws that does not limit us to books only. that can endanger your right to live also, so this path should not be adopted. I think first of all we should start an awareness campaign like right to read we should take part in such awareness activities, and secondly help each other by providing books, but we should also take care that books should stay in Visually impaired community. I know this is very difficult and next to impossible but I think until nothing happens we have no other choice. and please note distributing books freely is not going to create awareness but it will create a bad image for us. so need of this time is to create awareness in publishers and talk with ministers and government officers. take care, regards. ashish - Original Message - From: prateek aggarwal prateekagarwa...@gmail.com To: accessindia accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 6:44 PM Subject: Re: [AI] distributing books I don't know where this thread is onwarding to us, as the matter being so sensitive and more then 1000 listers and their 10 views, seems that it's enough for anyone to get boggled. I'm wondering why we
Re: [AI] distributing books
I think although Dinesh tried to answer some of the issues I put forward, I haven't got anything to justify publishers or libraries including those of centrel universities like Jawaharlal Nehru University, not providing EBooks to disabled, even though the books are available to non-disabled students. and although there are sites like questia.com even those are expensive, and books are not available in portable formats, and you need net connection to read them, as only online reading is possible. if you need academic Ebooks, from publishers like sage or routledge, their sites charge you very high indeed. and if you are buying books, you have to put in additional unpaied labour of scanning them. so being at the wrong end of all these discrimination, I don't see any moral obligation to submit to discriminating laws. what Gandhi asked was not to submit to immoral laws, not using means that are based on arms. in scanning and distributing scanned book, there is no use of arms. On 10/9/09, Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in wrote: So dinesh, You are essentially saying that: 1. We should do our book related transactions through organizations of and for blind like NAB which can provide e text and daisy books to legally disabled persons on request. 2. refrain from publicly ask for books or post their availability notifications in fora of blind/disabled like AI Bookbole as it would entail their destruction sooner or later, and may make a book available to a non-disabled person. Now, here, what even such organizations are doing is nothing but violation of copyrights, till the law is amended at least. Making a fundamental right an exclusively institutionalized and secretive act, in my opinion, is cowardly and oversubmissive. I truly appreciate bookbole for their courage and openness. World, according to me, operates on extremely surfacical grounds and superfluous way. Authors and publishers are not at all going to feel the need for making the materials accessible until they feel a pinch in their pockets by mass distributions of their copyrighted works amongst the disabled. Anyway piracy is not highly uncommon even for general masses, so heavens are not going to fall if a few deserving disabled benefit. Besides, my earlier argument about widening the reach of books to individuals who otherwise would never have got a chance to appreciate them, remains to be answered by anybody. Besides, there is no justification of copyright or non-availability about educational books in accessible format to all. UNCRPD talks of access to cultural material and IPR not being a barrier to it. So, what are books but manifestations of cultural conscious? Exclusively Institutionalizing a basic need and right for the fear that its open manifestation would entail legal proceedings does not appeal to me. There was a time when living of blind/disabled and their pursuits of activity in general community were regarded dangerous and taxing resources too much. So, they were institutionalized as individuals fit for living only in institutions. What is wrong in that? Now, it is felt that books etc. should be provided secretly to disabled by their institutions as we are here for profit earnings and if we concede to demands of few persons with disabilities it would be too expensive and why bother about inferior minorities? So let the business of publishing flourish unabated without being open to widen its prospects of catering to wider but different audience, and let the disabled crave for even the basic of their needs and rights by forming organizations who do the same illegal thing but secretly. Let us bring it out in the open and strongly demand that right to read is the part and parcel of freedom of speech and expression and its illegitimate denial constitutes gross violation of our fundamental rights. Adequate safeguards can be envisaged once the right is recognized and accessibility is taken into account. We have been cowards all these years, fearing even to distribute even educational and informational content. Tagore had said: Let my country awaken into heaven, where every one holds their head high, Where knowledge is free.. And let me add: Accessible. Lending names may not lend credibility to any cause, but it is more than sufficient if one person, say, Rajesh Asudani, thinks in a particular way. I am not bound by dead past and great names. And, yes, I am not willing to tolerate any comparisons of blind community to blood-thirsty acts, the person concerned has not withdrawn it still. I am pained as a person who is blind and who is willing to openly advocate rights of persons with disabilities and who is willing to put up a fight with so called intellectuals who would not budge until their monetary interests are impinged upon. The fact that by sharing a book amongst disabled, it may be available to a non-disabled person, is a bi-product and side effect and a
Re: [AI] distributing books
To add, I too can not justify Universities / educational institutes not providing study material in accessible format, if a student has enrolled in a course, it is his basic right as a student. -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Mahesh Panicker Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 4:43 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] distributing books I think although Dinesh tried to answer some of the issues I put forward, I haven't got anything to justify publishers or libraries including those of centrel universities like Jawaharlal Nehru University, not providing EBooks to disabled, even though the books are available to non-disabled students. and although there are sites like questia.com even those are expensive, and books are not available in portable formats, and you need net connection to read them, as only online reading is possible. if you need academic Ebooks, from publishers like sage or routledge, their sites charge you very high indeed. and if you are buying books, you have to put in additional unpaied labour of scanning them. so being at the wrong end of all these discrimination, I don't see any moral obligation to submit to discriminating laws. what Gandhi asked was not to submit to immoral laws, not using means that are based on arms. in scanning and distributing scanned book, there is no use of arms. On 10/9/09, Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in wrote: So dinesh, You are essentially saying that: 1. We should do our book related transactions through organizations of and for blind like NAB which can provide e text and daisy books to legally disabled persons on request. 2. refrain from publicly ask for books or post their availability notifications in fora of blind/disabled like AI Bookbole as it would entail their destruction sooner or later, and may make a book available to a non-disabled person. Now, here, what even such organizations are doing is nothing but violation of copyrights, till the law is amended at least. Making a fundamental right an exclusively institutionalized and secretive act, in my opinion, is cowardly and oversubmissive. I truly appreciate bookbole for their courage and openness. World, according to me, operates on extremely surfacical grounds and superfluous way. Authors and publishers are not at all going to feel the need for making the materials accessible until they feel a pinch in their pockets by mass distributions of their copyrighted works amongst the disabled. Anyway piracy is not highly uncommon even for general masses, so heavens are not going to fall if a few deserving disabled benefit. Besides, my earlier argument about widening the reach of books to individuals who otherwise would never have got a chance to appreciate them, remains to be answered by anybody. Besides, there is no justification of copyright or non-availability about educational books in accessible format to all. UNCRPD talks of access to cultural material and IPR not being a barrier to it. So, what are books but manifestations of cultural conscious? Exclusively Institutionalizing a basic need and right for the fear that its open manifestation would entail legal proceedings does not appeal to me. There was a time when living of blind/disabled and their pursuits of activity in general community were regarded dangerous and taxing resources too much. So, they were institutionalized as individuals fit for living only in institutions. What is wrong in that? Now, it is felt that books etc. should be provided secretly to disabled by their institutions as we are here for profit earnings and if we concede to demands of few persons with disabilities it would be too expensive and why bother about inferior minorities? So let the business of publishing flourish unabated without being open to widen its prospects of catering to wider but different audience, and let the disabled crave for even the basic of their needs and rights by forming organizations who do the same illegal thing but secretly. Let us bring it out in the open and strongly demand that right to read is the part and parcel of freedom of speech and expression and its illegitimate denial constitutes gross violation of our fundamental rights. Adequate safeguards can be envisaged once the right is recognized and accessibility is taken into account. We have been cowards all these years, fearing even to distribute even educational and informational content. Tagore had said: Let my country awaken into heaven, where every one holds their head high, Where knowledge is free.. And let me add: Accessible. Lending names may not lend credibility to any cause, but it is more than sufficient if one person, say, Rajesh Asudani, thinks in a particular way. I am not bound by dead past and great names. And, yes, I am not willing to tolerate any
Re: [AI] distributing books
Well, I am not an expert on copyrights, and till now I had assumed that organizations are permited to create copies for the use of blind persons. But as per the cowardly and oversubmissive point, following the law does not seem to me such, and working to make the changes is our right. Legal framework is a basis for all civil societies, and unfortunately it is becoming a fassion to denounce law. Another comparison, which may not be totally wrong. But before that let me state that Right to read is really important and providing books through organizations does not seem to me cowardly and oversubmissive. Around 30 percent of Indian population is below poverty line, their basic right to eat, proper life and dignity is vilated, would you all be ready to be robbed of some portion of your money for that purpose? I know you may say we are ready to give money for such cause, so are a few authors as well. But the point is to give away your money without your consent. And how much difference small contribution from you and me is goine to make for such a large problem? We have to respect others property rights when we talk about our own rights. In the meanwhile increasing the efforts to make it possible for blind persons to access material could help. -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Asudani, Rajesh Sent: 09 October 2009 03:59 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: [AI] distributing books So dinesh, You are essentially saying that: 1. We should do our book related transactions through organizations of and for blind like NAB which can provide e text and daisy books to legally disabled persons on request. 2. refrain from publicly ask for books or post their availability notifications in fora of blind/disabled like AI Bookbole as it would entail their destruction sooner or later, and may make a book available to a non-disabled person. Now, here, what even such organizations are doing is nothing but violation of copyrights, till the law is amended at least. Making a fundamental right an exclusively institutionalized and secretive act, in my opinion, is cowardly and oversubmissive. I truly appreciate bookbole for their courage and openness. World, according to me, operates on extremely surfacical grounds and superfluous way. Authors and publishers are not at all going to feel the need for making the materials accessible until they feel a pinch in their pockets by mass distributions of their copyrighted works amongst the disabled. Anyway piracy is not highly uncommon even for general masses, so heavens are not going to fall if a few deserving disabled benefit. Besides, my earlier argument about widening the reach of books to individuals who otherwise would never have got a chance to appreciate them, remains to be answered by anybody. Besides, there is no justification of copyright or non-availability about educational books in accessible format to all. UNCRPD talks of access to cultural material and IPR not being a barrier to it. So, what are books but manifestations of cultural conscious? Exclusively Institutionalizing a basic need and right for the fear that its open manifestation would entail legal proceedings does not appeal to me. There was a time when living of blind/disabled and their pursuits of activity in general community were regarded dangerous and taxing resources too much. So, they were institutionalized as individuals fit for living only in institutions. What is wrong in that? Now, it is felt that books etc. should be provided secretly to disabled by their institutions as we are here for profit earnings and if we concede to demands of few persons with disabilities it would be too expensive and why bother about inferior minorities? So let the business of publishing flourish unabated without being open to widen its prospects of catering to wider but different audience, and let the disabled crave for even the basic of their needs and rights by forming organizations who do the same illegal thing but secretly. Let us bring it out in the open and strongly demand that right to read is the part and parcel of freedom of speech and expression and its illegitimate denial constitutes gross violation of our fundamental rights. Adequate safeguards can be envisaged once the right is recognized and accessibility is taken into account. We have been cowards all these years, fearing even to distribute even educational and informational content. Tagore had said: Let my country awaken into heaven, where every one holds their head high, Where knowledge is free.. And let me add: Accessible. Lending names may not lend credibility to any cause, but it is more than sufficient if one person, say, Rajesh Asudani, thinks in a particular way. I am not bound by dead past and great names. And, yes, I am not willing to tolerate any comparisons of blind community to blood-thirsty acts, the person concerned has not
Re: [AI] distributing books
Suppose I am in a country of dogs where only dog food is supplied. I am obliged to purchase it and then convert it into human food by any hypothetical means and eat it. I demand that I would purchase the said dog food, if it is processed and converted into human food otherwise not. But sellers insist that they would not do it at any cost. I think I am fully justified to distribute such converted food anyhow obtained to fellow human beings in order to satisfy the human hunger and also to make them-sellers-realize that there is demand for human food and they would do well to process it and earn their due share by selling human food in addition to dog food.. How am I infringing upon the rights of sellers? Further, I am satisfying hunger of few humans who would otherwise have never satisfied hunger as they could not purchase or digest dog food, but were hungry nonetheless. Rajesh Asudani Assistant General Manager (PPS), Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 Doth God exact day-labour, light denied? John Milton -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Mukesh Sharma Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 5:08 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] distributing books Just a simple question, how would you like to ensure the right of the publisher / writer? Or would you simply say no to their right of earning from their hard work? Though I completely understand the right to read and support it completely but the worry is the question Am I stepping on the right of others? is this the right way to secure my rights? I believe, If we ensure the rights of the publishers and authors, their coperation would certainly be with us or at the most we will be striving towards a balanced liberal society. All, please take a note of that argument / disagreement to the ideas / views does not mean disrespect in any manner and if I am hurting anyone , my sincere apologies in advance. Thanks Mukesh -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Mahesh Panicker Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 4:43 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] distributing books I think although Dinesh tried to answer some of the issues I put forward, I haven't got anything to justify publishers or libraries including those of centrel universities like Jawaharlal Nehru University, not providing EBooks to disabled, even though the books are available to non-disabled students. and although there are sites like questia.com even those are expensive, and books are not available in portable formats, and you need net connection to read them, as only online reading is possible. if you need academic Ebooks, from publishers like sage or routledge, their sites charge you very high indeed. and if you are buying books, you have to put in additional unpaied labour of scanning them. so being at the wrong end of all these discrimination, I don't see any moral obligation to submit to discriminating laws. what Gandhi asked was not to submit to immoral laws, not using means that are based on arms. in scanning and distributing scanned book, there is no use of arms. On 10/9/09, Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in wrote: So dinesh, You are essentially saying that: 1. We should do our book related transactions through organizations of and for blind like NAB which can provide e text and daisy books to legally disabled persons on request. 2. refrain from publicly ask for books or post their availability notifications in fora of blind/disabled like AI Bookbole as it would entail their destruction sooner or later, and may make a book available to a non-disabled person. Now, here, what even such organizations are doing is nothing but violation of copyrights, till the law is amended at least. Making a fundamental right an exclusively institutionalized and secretive act, in my opinion, is cowardly and oversubmissive. I truly appreciate bookbole for their courage and openness. World, according to me, operates on extremely surfacical grounds and superfluous way. Authors and publishers are not at all going to feel the need for making the materials accessible until they feel a pinch in their pockets by mass distributions of their copyrighted works amongst the disabled. Anyway piracy is not highly uncommon even for general masses, so heavens are not going to fall if a few deserving disabled benefit. Besides, my earlier argument about widening the reach of books to individuals who otherwise would never have got a chance to appreciate them, remains to be answered by anybody. Besides, there is no justification of copyright or non-availability about educational books in accessible format to all. UNCRPD talks of access to cultural material and IPR not being a barrier to it. So, what are books
Re: [AI] distributing books
In the below example, you care about the seller's right to get money of the products he supplies, you are converting the product you purchased and thus the seller is getting what he is entitled to. However in case if you rob him and then convert the food for your use, then? I know, you too will agree it's being immoral and illegal too. The distribution of food is fully justified because you own the raw material and the effort you put in to convert but what if some one robs you for his hunger? How would you feel? I do understand you are doing it for a cause and it is important to note and understand that transformation of social order can not be and never been silent or without a pain or even not confirming to all laws and morals. And on top of that the right to read is not of equal degree to the right to food. Kill the sin and not the sinner, the sin here in our case is the lack of awareness among the publishers, lack of infrastructure for providing accessible books, lack of inclusiveness in copyright act. Thanks Mukesh -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Asudani, Rajesh Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 5:31 PM To: mrmukeshsha...@gmail.com; accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] distributing books Suppose I am in a country of dogs where only dog food is supplied. I am obliged to purchase it and then convert it into human food by any hypothetical means and eat it. I demand that I would purchase the said dog food, if it is processed and converted into human food otherwise not. But sellers insist that they would not do it at any cost. I think I am fully justified to distribute such converted food anyhow obtained to fellow human beings in order to satisfy the human hunger and also to make them-sellers-realize that there is demand for human food and they would do well to process it and earn their due share by selling human food in addition to dog food.. How am I infringing upon the rights of sellers? Further, I am satisfying hunger of few humans who would otherwise have never satisfied hunger as they could not purchase or digest dog food, but were hungry nonetheless. Rajesh Asudani Assistant General Manager (PPS), Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 Doth God exact day-labour, light denied? John Milton -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Mukesh Sharma Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 5:08 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] distributing books Just a simple question, how would you like to ensure the right of the publisher / writer? Or would you simply say no to their right of earning from their hard work? Though I completely understand the right to read and support it completely but the worry is the question Am I stepping on the right of others? is this the right way to secure my rights? I believe, If we ensure the rights of the publishers and authors, their coperation would certainly be with us or at the most we will be striving towards a balanced liberal society. All, please take a note of that argument / disagreement to the ideas / views does not mean disrespect in any manner and if I am hurting anyone , my sincere apologies in advance. Thanks Mukesh -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Mahesh Panicker Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 4:43 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] distributing books I think although Dinesh tried to answer some of the issues I put forward, I haven't got anything to justify publishers or libraries including those of centrel universities like Jawaharlal Nehru University, not providing EBooks to disabled, even though the books are available to non-disabled students. and although there are sites like questia.com even those are expensive, and books are not available in portable formats, and you need net connection to read them, as only online reading is possible. if you need academic Ebooks, from publishers like sage or routledge, their sites charge you very high indeed. and if you are buying books, you have to put in additional unpaied labour of scanning them. so being at the wrong end of all these discrimination, I don't see any moral obligation to submit to discriminating laws. what Gandhi asked was not to submit to immoral laws, not using means that are based on arms. in scanning and distributing scanned book, there is no use of arms. On 10/9/09, Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in wrote: So dinesh, You are essentially saying that: 1. We should do our book related transactions through organizations of and for blind like NAB which can provide e text and daisy books to legally disabled persons on request. 2. refrain from publicly ask for books or post their availability notifications
Re: [AI] distributing books
Hai: Why do you have to think you are robbing? If a book sells for say 1 million copies, a publisher makes money from it. If a college purchases it, the college would have obviously paid for it. So in what way a few people who otherwise cannot use the book were to scan and use it? Another question is that when you have conflicting laws in the country which one should you follow and which you shouldn't? If UNCRPD is adopted as part of our laws, we must follow it and its recommendation that copyright laws should respect use of books and materials by print disabled. Changing the copyright laws is the job of the government, which they should have done the day they ratified UNCRPD. From our side, people are pushing the case for a change, but should you and I wait for the government to change? Suppose, if that doesn't happen until you and I cross 60, do you say we should stay away from reading books? Why should you guys get into an overdrive when it comes to following illegal laws? Subramani -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Mukesh Sharma Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 6:20 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] distributing books In the below example, you care about the seller's right to get money of the products he supplies, you are converting the product you purchased and thus the seller is getting what he is entitled to. However in case if you rob him and then convert the food for your use, then? I know, you too will agree it's being immoral and illegal too. The distribution of food is fully justified because you own the raw material and the effort you put in to convert but what if some one robs you for his hunger? How would you feel? I do understand you are doing it for a cause and it is important to note and understand that transformation of social order can not be and never been silent or without a pain or even not confirming to all laws and morals. And on top of that the right to read is not of equal degree to the right to food. Kill the sin and not the sinner, the sin here in our case is the lack of awareness among the publishers, lack of infrastructure for providing accessible books, lack of inclusiveness in copyright act. Thanks Mukesh -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Asudani, Rajesh Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 5:31 PM To: mrmukeshsha...@gmail.com; accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] distributing books Suppose I am in a country of dogs where only dog food is supplied. I am obliged to purchase it and then convert it into human food by any hypothetical means and eat it. I demand that I would purchase the said dog food, if it is processed and converted into human food otherwise not. But sellers insist that they would not do it at any cost. I think I am fully justified to distribute such converted food anyhow obtained to fellow human beings in order to satisfy the human hunger and also to make them-sellers-realize that there is demand for human food and they would do well to process it and earn their due share by selling human food in addition to dog food.. How am I infringing upon the rights of sellers? Further, I am satisfying hunger of few humans who would otherwise have never satisfied hunger as they could not purchase or digest dog food, but were hungry nonetheless. Rajesh Asudani Assistant General Manager (PPS), Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 Doth God exact day-labour, light denied? John Milton -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Mukesh Sharma Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 5:08 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] distributing books Just a simple question, how would you like to ensure the right of the publisher / writer? Or would you simply say no to their right of earning from their hard work? Though I completely understand the right to read and support it completely but the worry is the question Am I stepping on the right of others? is this the right way to secure my rights? I believe, If we ensure the rights of the publishers and authors, their coperation would certainly be with us or at the most we will be striving towards a balanced liberal society. All, please take a note of that argument / disagreement to the ideas / views does not mean disrespect in any manner and if I am hurting anyone , my sincere apologies in advance. Thanks Mukesh -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Mahesh Panicker Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 4:43 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] distributing books I think although Dinesh tried to answer some of the issues I put forward, I haven't got anything
Re: [AI] distributing books
I don’t know where this thread is onwarding to us, as the matter being so sensitive and more then 1000 listers and their 10 views, seems that it’s enough for anyone to get boggled. I’m wondering why we are still in contention on the legality and illegality of books sharing, as we all somewhat concur about the errors in our existing laws. dear intellectuals, can’t we just forget about the laws created by state and follow the laws of our interior in this matter. I agree to subramani sir, that if it really wounds the hearts of authors, let them come with objections. And, if it doesn’t, we have two options left I.E. either to continue with the same process or to redirect ourselves to the old era of gawky life. Rajesh sir,, hundred percent agreed that Authors and publishers are not at all going to feel the need for making the materials accessible until they feel a pinch in their pockets by mass distributions of their copyrighted works amongst the disabled. The problem is, that even though the books are converted and shared on a good large basis now, yet I don’t remember any author standing against it. Seriously, I want this message to reach to the right ears and let them resist it. for sure they can resist only if they having better alternative, which means agreeing to provide accessible coppies to us. I’ve no problem if the publishers and authors agrees to provide accessible coppies on their original prize, but as the delhi seems too far from now, let’s continue the same and waite for that golden day. In fact, let’s enlarge the sharing, so that we can at least make them awake first. As per is giving the responsibility of distributions to major welfare organization is concern, can you guaranty that the blind persons who have received the books won’t share it with any non print disables? Ok, let me confess here, I’ve already shared a number of programming books with my cited counterparts. Then? who guaranties the legal distribution? About the Gandhi, if I’m correct, he has affirmed “work by your own” and theory of “ramrajya” which meant to follow your own subterranean rather any state or government. Centralizing the powers on one place is just an act of making the process autocratic which is certainly irrational keeping the fact in mind that india has a misfortune of having largest number of blind persons. Means largest harm of world if we make the process tyrannical. as a resounding declaration in frunt of more then 1000 listers and to any one else who may read this mail from the archives by googling or else, I’ll continue sharing the books with even more fervor until a better alternative comes. Well before I bind up this long mail, opinion expressed in this mail are clearly belongs to me and even though I don’t regret for any of my statements, yet you are free to disagree. wanna look inside me? My blog is the telescope: http://www.myfriendprateek.blogspot.com regards, prateek agarwal. Skype: Prateek_agarwal32 website: http://www.prateekagarwal.webs.com Best solutions for all your softwares/websites development needs. You tell, I’ll build. -- Original message -- From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in accessindia@accessindia.org.in Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 15:59:12 +0530 Subject: [AI] distributing books So dinesh, You are essentially saying that: 1. We should do our book related transactions through organizations of and for blind like NAB which can provide e text and daisy books to legally disabled persons on request. 2. refrain from publicly ask for books or post their availability notifications in fora of blind/disabled like AI Bookbole as it would entail their destruction sooner or later, and may make a book available to a non-disabled person. Now, here, what even such organizations are doing is nothing but violation of copyrights, till the law is amended at least. Making a fundamental right an exclusively institutionalized and secretive act, in my opinion, is cowardly and oversubmissive. I truly appreciate bookbole for their courage and openness. World, according to me, operates on extremely surfacical grounds and superfluous way. Authors and publishers are not at all going to feel the need for making the materials accessible until they feel a pinch in their pockets by mass distributions of their copyrighted works amongst the disabled. Anyway piracy is not highly uncommon even for general masses, so heavens are not going to fall if a few deserving disabled benefit. Besides, my earlier argument about widening the reach of books to individuals who otherwise would never have got a chance to appreciate them, remains to be answered by anybody. Besides, there is no justification of copyright or non-availability about educational books in accessible format to all. UNCRPD talks of access to cultural material and IPR not being a barrier to it. So, what are books but manifestations of cultural conscious? Exclusively
Re: [AI] distributing books
snip dear intellectuals, can't we just forget about the laws created by state and follow the laws of our interior in this matter. /snip If we follow this logic, then where do we stop? And who will define where should we stop? Each of us should define what should be or should not be the law? So someone may come along and say that PWD is state law and we will not follow it? Why should I follow any laws for that matter? I think I can not discuss further, because when everything can be bent to suit the need, no point in discussion, law is what we believe in, law is what we want. Don't know where would this lead, so I refuse to run further. -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of prateek aggarwal Sent: 09 October 2009 06:44 PM To: accessindia Subject: Re: [AI] distributing books I don't know where this thread is onwarding to us, as the matter being so sensitive and more then 1000 listers and their 10 views, seems that it's enough for anyone to get boggled. I'm wondering why we are still in contention on the legality and illegality of books sharing, as we all somewhat concur about the errors in our existing laws. dear intellectuals, can't we just forget about the laws created by state and follow the laws of our interior in this matter. I agree to subramani sir, that if it really wounds the hearts of authors, let them come with objections. And, if it doesn't, we have two options left I.E. either to continue with the same process or to redirect ourselves to the old era of gawky life. Rajesh sir,, hundred percent agreed that Authors and publishers are not at all going to feel the need for making the materials accessible until they feel a pinch in their pockets by mass distributions of their copyrighted works amongst the disabled. The problem is, that even though the books are converted and shared on a good large basis now, yet I don't remember any author standing against it. Seriously, I want this message to reach to the right ears and let them resist it. for sure they can resist only if they having better alternative, which means agreeing to provide accessible coppies to us. I've no problem if the publishers and authors agrees to provide accessible coppies on their original prize, but as the delhi seems too far from now, let's continue the same and waite for that golden day. In fact, let's enlarge the sharing, so that we can at least make them awake first. As per is giving the responsibility of distributions to major welfare organization is concern, can you guaranty that the blind persons who have received the books won't share it with any non print disables? Ok, let me confess here, I've already shared a number of programming books with my cited counterparts. Then? who guaranties the legal distribution? About the Gandhi, if I'm correct, he has affirmed work by your own and theory of ramrajya which meant to follow your own subterranean rather any state or government. Centralizing the powers on one place is just an act of making the process autocratic which is certainly irrational keeping the fact in mind that india has a misfortune of having largest number of blind persons. Means largest harm of world if we make the process tyrannical. as a resounding declaration in frunt of more then 1000 listers and to any one else who may read this mail from the archives by googling or else, I'll continue sharing the books with even more fervor until a better alternative comes. Well before I bind up this long mail, opinion expressed in this mail are clearly belongs to me and even though I don't regret for any of my statements, yet you are free to disagree. wanna look inside me? My blog is the telescope: http://www.myfriendprateek.blogspot.com regards, prateek agarwal. Skype: Prateek_agarwal32 website: http://www.prateekagarwal.webs.com Best solutions for all your softwares/websites development needs. You tell, I'll build. -- Original message -- From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in accessindia@accessindia.org.in Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 15:59:12 +0530 Subject: [AI] distributing books So dinesh, You are essentially saying that: 1. We should do our book related transactions through organizations of and for blind like NAB which can provide e text and daisy books to legally disabled persons on request. 2. refrain from publicly ask for books or post their availability notifications in fora of blind/disabled like AI Bookbole as it would entail their destruction sooner or later, and may make a book available to a non-disabled person. Now, here, what even such organizations are doing is nothing but violation of copyrights, till the law is amended at least. Making a fundamental right an exclusively institutionalized and secretive act, in my opinion, is cowardly and oversubmissive. I truly appreciate bookbole for their courage and openness
Re: [AI] distributing books
HI, If converting books into accessible format is piracy, what is taking xerox copies of those books. Doesn't it amount to piracy and violating the laws? So, ask those lakhs of xerox shop keepers to close their shops first, and then we will think of copyrights in India. Once I went to I I M, Banglore and I found a xerox shop where we can take xerox copies of books, journals and even some portion of their PhD theses. So, when a premier educational institution in India is doing it openly, why should we refrain ourselves from doing so? -- G. Vamshi PH Res : +91 877-2243861 Mobile: +91 9949349497 E-mail ID: gvamsh...@gmail.com Skype: gvamshi81 God helps those who help themselves On 10/9/09, Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in wrote: So dinesh, You are essentially saying that: 1. We should do our book related transactions through organizations of and for blind like NAB which can provide e text and daisy books to legally disabled persons on request. 2. refrain from publicly ask for books or post their availability notifications in fora of blind/disabled like AI Bookbole as it would entail their destruction sooner or later, and may make a book available to a non-disabled person. Now, here, what even such organizations are doing is nothing but violation of copyrights, till the law is amended at least. Making a fundamental right an exclusively institutionalized and secretive act, in my opinion, is cowardly and oversubmissive. I truly appreciate bookbole for their courage and openness. World, according to me, operates on extremely surfacical grounds and superfluous way. Authors and publishers are not at all going to feel the need for making the materials accessible until they feel a pinch in their pockets by mass distributions of their copyrighted works amongst the disabled. Anyway piracy is not highly uncommon even for general masses, so heavens are not going to fall if a few deserving disabled benefit. Besides, my earlier argument about widening the reach of books to individuals who otherwise would never have got a chance to appreciate them, remains to be answered by anybody. Besides, there is no justification of copyright or non-availability about educational books in accessible format to all. UNCRPD talks of access to cultural material and IPR not being a barrier to it. So, what are books but manifestations of cultural conscious? Exclusively Institutionalizing a basic need and right for the fear that its open manifestation would entail legal proceedings does not appeal to me. There was a time when living of blind/disabled and their pursuits of activity in general community were regarded dangerous and taxing resources too much. So, they were institutionalized as individuals fit for living only in institutions. What is wrong in that? Now, it is felt that books etc. should be provided secretly to disabled by their institutions as we are here for profit earnings and if we concede to demands of few persons with disabilities it would be too expensive and why bother about inferior minorities? So let the business of publishing flourish unabated without being open to widen its prospects of catering to wider but different audience, and let the disabled crave for even the basic of their needs and rights by forming organizations who do the same illegal thing but secretly. Let us bring it out in the open and strongly demand that right to read is the part and parcel of freedom of speech and expression and its illegitimate denial constitutes gross violation of our fundamental rights. Adequate safeguards can be envisaged once the right is recognized and accessibility is taken into account. We have been cowards all these years, fearing even to distribute even educational and informational content. Tagore had said: Let my country awaken into heaven, where every one holds their head high, Where knowledge is free.. And let me add: Accessible. Lending names may not lend credibility to any cause, but it is more than sufficient if one person, say, Rajesh Asudani, thinks in a particular way. I am not bound by dead past and great names. And, yes, I am not willing to tolerate any comparisons of blind community to blood-thirsty acts, the person concerned has not withdrawn it still. I am pained as a person who is blind and who is willing to openly advocate rights of persons with disabilities and who is willing to put up a fight with so called intellectuals who would not budge until their monetary interests are impinged upon. The fact that by sharing a book amongst disabled, it may be available to a non-disabled person, is a bi-product and side effect and a necessary evil, which can be prevented by recognizing our most fundamental freedom of expression. I am maddened when I see blind children simply at the mercy of readers or writers and groping for material to study. Any law is a pittance before a helpless human being who requires the rights
Re: [AI] distributing books
I think instead of fighting over words, this is one issue that requires social activism. It is the high time that we demand the government of India to pass suitable law to make books/other printed materials available to the visually challenged persons in accessible format. Unless our energy gets mobilized in this direction, this threat is going to lead us nowhere. Perhaps a few others will comment, someone will throw personalized statements, the moderator finally will intervene and put a full stop and the issue will vanish from the radar. I am sure that those who care about accessibility are not looking for such an useless end to this meaningful debate. Just my thoughts. Vetri. - Original Message - From: Vamshi. G gvamsh...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [AI] distributing books HI, If converting books into accessible format is piracy, what is taking xerox copies of those books. Doesn't it amount to piracy and violating the laws? So, ask those lakhs of xerox shop keepers to close their shops first, and then we will think of copyrights in India. Once I went to I I M, Banglore and I found a xerox shop where we can take xerox copies of books, journals and even some portion of their PhD theses. So, when a premier educational institution in India is doing it openly, why should we refrain ourselves from doing so? -- G. Vamshi PH Res : +91 877-2243861 Mobile: +91 9949349497 E-mail ID: gvamsh...@gmail.com Skype: gvamshi81 God helps those who help themselves On 10/9/09, Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in wrote: So dinesh, You are essentially saying that: 1. We should do our book related transactions through organizations of and for blind like NAB which can provide e text and daisy books to legally disabled persons on request. 2. refrain from publicly ask for books or post their availability notifications in fora of blind/disabled like AI Bookbole as it would entail their destruction sooner or later, and may make a book available to a non-disabled person. Now, here, what even such organizations are doing is nothing but violation of copyrights, till the law is amended at least. Making a fundamental right an exclusively institutionalized and secretive act, in my opinion, is cowardly and oversubmissive. I truly appreciate bookbole for their courage and openness. World, according to me, operates on extremely surfacical grounds and superfluous way. Authors and publishers are not at all going to feel the need for making the materials accessible until they feel a pinch in their pockets by mass distributions of their copyrighted works amongst the disabled. Anyway piracy is not highly uncommon even for general masses, so heavens are not going to fall if a few deserving disabled benefit. Besides, my earlier argument about widening the reach of books to individuals who otherwise would never have got a chance to appreciate them, remains to be answered by anybody. Besides, there is no justification of copyright or non-availability about educational books in accessible format to all. UNCRPD talks of access to cultural material and IPR not being a barrier to it. So, what are books but manifestations of cultural conscious? Exclusively Institutionalizing a basic need and right for the fear that its open manifestation would entail legal proceedings does not appeal to me. There was a time when living of blind/disabled and their pursuits of activity in general community were regarded dangerous and taxing resources too much. So, they were institutionalized as individuals fit for living only in institutions. What is wrong in that? Now, it is felt that books etc. should be provided secretly to disabled by their institutions as we are here for profit earnings and if we concede to demands of few persons with disabilities it would be too expensive and why bother about inferior minorities? So let the business of publishing flourish unabated without being open to widen its prospects of catering to wider but different audience, and let the disabled crave for even the basic of their needs and rights by forming organizations who do the same illegal thing but secretly. Let us bring it out in the open and strongly demand that right to read is the part and parcel of freedom of speech and expression and its illegitimate denial constitutes gross violation of our fundamental rights. Adequate safeguards can be envisaged once the right is recognized and accessibility is taken into account. We have been cowards all these years, fearing even to distribute even educational and informational content. Tagore had said: Let my country awaken into heaven, where every one holds their head high, Where knowledge is free.. And let me add: Accessible. Lending names may not lend credibility to any cause, but it is more than sufficient if one person, say, Rajesh Asudani, thinks in a particular way. I am not bound by dead
Re: [AI] distributing books
The need of the hour is social activism, awareness building that focuses on the need for making available books in accessible formats, negotiation and call for legislation. Right to read is ours, but then the authors and publishers too have their rights. It is middle ground that we need to find for a meaningful way forward. This discussion has given me a fair bit of content as possible content for my presentation at the forthcoming Regional Conference being organised by WIPE. - Original Message - From: Vetrivel Adhimoolam vadhimoo...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 5:54 AM Subject: Re: [AI] distributing books I think instead of fighting over words, this is one issue that requires social activism. It is the high time that we demand the government of India to pass suitable law to make books/other printed materials available to the visually challenged persons in accessible format. Unless our energy gets mobilized in this direction, this threat is going to lead us nowhere. Perhaps a few others will comment, someone will throw personalized statements, the moderator finally will intervene and put a full stop and the issue will vanish from the radar. I am sure that those who care about accessibility are not looking for such an useless end to this meaningful debate. Just my thoughts. Vetri. - Original Message - From: Vamshi. G gvamsh...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [AI] distributing books HI, If converting books into accessible format is piracy, what is taking xerox copies of those books. Doesn't it amount to piracy and violating the laws? So, ask those lakhs of xerox shop keepers to close their shops first, and then we will think of copyrights in India. Once I went to I I M, Banglore and I found a xerox shop where we can take xerox copies of books, journals and even some portion of their PhD theses. So, when a premier educational institution in India is doing it openly, why should we refrain ourselves from doing so? -- G. Vamshi PH Res : +91 877-2243861 Mobile: +91 9949349497 E-mail ID: gvamsh...@gmail.com Skype: gvamshi81 God helps those who help themselves On 10/9/09, Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in wrote: So dinesh, You are essentially saying that: 1. We should do our book related transactions through organizations of and for blind like NAB which can provide e text and daisy books to legally disabled persons on request. 2. refrain from publicly ask for books or post their availability notifications in fora of blind/disabled like AI Bookbole as it would entail their destruction sooner or later, and may make a book available to a non-disabled person. Now, here, what even such organizations are doing is nothing but violation of copyrights, till the law is amended at least. Making a fundamental right an exclusively institutionalized and secretive act, in my opinion, is cowardly and oversubmissive. I truly appreciate bookbole for their courage and openness. World, according to me, operates on extremely surfacical grounds and superfluous way. Authors and publishers are not at all going to feel the need for making the materials accessible until they feel a pinch in their pockets by mass distributions of their copyrighted works amongst the disabled. Anyway piracy is not highly uncommon even for general masses, so heavens are not going to fall if a few deserving disabled benefit. Besides, my earlier argument about widening the reach of books to individuals who otherwise would never have got a chance to appreciate them, remains to be answered by anybody. Besides, there is no justification of copyright or non-availability about educational books in accessible format to all. UNCRPD talks of access to cultural material and IPR not being a barrier to it. So, what are books but manifestations of cultural conscious? Exclusively Institutionalizing a basic need and right for the fear that its open manifestation would entail legal proceedings does not appeal to me. There was a time when living of blind/disabled and their pursuits of activity in general community were regarded dangerous and taxing resources too much. So, they were institutionalized as individuals fit for living only in institutions. What is wrong in that? Now, it is felt that books etc. should be provided secretly to disabled by their institutions as we are here for profit earnings and if we concede to demands of few persons with disabilities it would be too expensive and why bother about inferior minorities? So let the business of publishing flourish unabated without being open to widen its prospects of catering to wider but different audience, and let the disabled crave for even the basic of their needs and rights by forming organizations who do the same illegal thing but secretly. Let us bring it out
Re: [AI] distributing books
no, we can not and must not do this, following laws of our own interior? well I think it is the most dangerous thing, because then no one will follow any law. and situation will go out of hand. when we talk about not following laws that does not limit us to books only. that can endanger your right to live also, so this path should not be adopted. I think first of all we should start an awareness campaign like right to read we should take part in such awareness activities, and secondly help each other by providing books, but we should also take care that books should stay in Visually impaired community. I know this is very difficult and next to impossible but I think until nothing happens we have no other choice. and please note distributing books freely is not going to create awareness but it will create a bad image for us. so need of this time is to create awareness in publishers and talk with ministers and government officers. take care, regards. ashish - Original Message - From: prateek aggarwal prateekagarwa...@gmail.com To: accessindia accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 6:44 PM Subject: Re: [AI] distributing books I don’t know where this thread is onwarding to us, as the matter being so sensitive and more then 1000 listers and their 10 views, seems that it’s enough for anyone to get boggled. I’m wondering why we are still in contention on the legality and illegality of books sharing, as we all somewhat concur about the errors in our existing laws. dear intellectuals, can’t we just forget about the laws created by state and follow the laws of our interior in this matter. I agree to subramani sir, that if it really wounds the hearts of authors, let them come with objections. And, if it doesn’t, we have two options left I.E. either to continue with the same process or to redirect ourselves to the old era of gawky life. Rajesh sir,, hundred percent agreed that Authors and publishers are not at all going to feel the need for making the materials accessible until they feel a pinch in their pockets by mass distributions of their copyrighted works amongst the disabled. The problem is, that even though the books are converted and shared on a good large basis now, yet I don’t remember any author standing against it. Seriously, I want this message to reach to the right ears and let them resist it. for sure they can resist only if they having better alternative, which means agreeing to provide accessible coppies to us. I’ve no problem if the publishers and authors agrees to provide accessible coppies on their original prize, but as the delhi seems too far from now, let’s continue the same and waite for that golden day. In fact, let’s enlarge the sharing, so that we can at least make them awake first. As per is giving the responsibility of distributions to major welfare organization is concern, can you guaranty that the blind persons who have received the books won’t share it with any non print disables? Ok, let me confess here, I’ve already shared a number of programming books with my cited counterparts. Then? who guaranties the legal distribution? About the Gandhi, if I’m correct, he has affirmed “work by your own” and theory of “ramrajya” which meant to follow your own subterranean rather any state or government. Centralizing the powers on one place is just an act of making the process autocratic which is certainly irrational keeping the fact in mind that india has a misfortune of having largest number of blind persons. Means largest harm of world if we make the process tyrannical. as a resounding declaration in frunt of more then 1000 listers and to any one else who may read this mail from the archives by googling or else, I’ll continue sharing the books with even more fervor until a better alternative comes. Well before I bind up this long mail, opinion expressed in this mail are clearly belongs to me and even though I don’t regret for any of my statements, yet you are free to disagree. wanna look inside me? My blog is the telescope: http://www.myfriendprateek.blogspot.com regards, prateek agarwal. Skype: Prateek_agarwal32 website: http://www.prateekagarwal.webs.com Best solutions for all your softwares/websites development needs. You tell, I’ll build. -- Original message -- From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in accessindia@accessindia.org.in Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 15:59:12 +0530 Subject: [AI] distributing books So dinesh, You are essentially saying that: 1. We should do our book related transactions through organizations of and for blind like NAB which can provide e text and daisy books to legally disabled persons on request. 2. refrain from publicly ask for books or post their availability notifications in fora of blind/disabled like AI Bookbole as it would entail their destruction sooner or later, and may make a book available to a non-disabled person. Now, here
