Re: Fwd: Re: New Website for Perl Beginners: perlmeme.org

[Pressio Admin]

Hi all,

The goal may be duplicate but the means is not.
People learn in different ways, there's no one-size-fits-all, the more 
paths to the destination the better.


I remember doing the java trails tutorial and thought it was 
particularly good, though others may prefer a book etc.


Well done say I, let the freedom flow.

Tom Cowap


Shlomi Fish wrote:


Forwarding the message from Simon...

Shlomi Fish

--  Forwarded Message  --

Subject: Re: New Website for Perl Beginners: perlmeme.org
Date: Tuesday 04 October 2005 10:33
From: Simon Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: advocacy@perl.org

Hello,

Thanks to those who provided feedback to Shlomi's announcement a few days
back.

I've summarized the various criticisms that people made, along with our
response.

Randal L. Schwartz

 


Unless it's hidden, I'm not finding any obvious link there to the
defacto standard location for Perl beginners, <http://learn.perl.org>.
I think this represents broken integrity on your part, since you
appear to be trying to replace learn.perl.org, not supplement it, so
you're attempting to fracture the community, not enhance it.

If you add a prominent link to learn.perl.org, I will withdraw my
complaint.
   



We do reference Simon Cozens Beginning Perl book at learn.perl.org
but you're correct that the learn.perl.org site is not made prominent
on perlmeme.org. We can certainly do this.


Gavin Henry

 


I think their intentions are great, but what's wrong with:

   * http://learn.perl.org
   * http://faq.perl.org
   * Tutorials

 They talk about their motivations, but it seems like a big duplicate
 of effort? I think they need to have a links page mentioning things like
 above.
   



We link to some good perldoc pages at:
   http://perlmeme.org/faqs/references/
and I think that this is probably the place for us to link to the
learn.perl.org urls.


JupiterHost.Net

 


 And its not very well done CGI wise (IE super hackable...
 didn't you check and untaint the input?)

 http://perlmeme.org/misc/feedback.html?url=/joema...

 Thats pretty limmited in scope but not a good idea for a site that is
 supposed to be giving out good ideas :)
   



Well, you win.

Ovid

 


In http://perlmeme.org/start_here/our_motivations.html there's a lot of
talk about dealing with "anti-Perl memes" and, essentially, how to
market Perl.  Given that, I can only wonder why the site creators
didn't bother to contact The Perl Foundation
(http://www.perlfoundation.org/) as the latter is always interested in
new volunteers with energy and creative ability who are willing to help
out on that very topic.
   



I've had pleasant dealings with The Perl Foundation at the Open
Source Developers' Conference, but be honest, it never occured to me to
talk to them about perlmeme.org

 


And is there any mention of the Perl community?  I can't see it there.
The site purports to be a resource for "selling" Perl and overcoming
the negative reaction many folks have to the language, but the site is
little more than a cookbook.  How can one market Perl and leave out one
of its strongest selling points?
   



We'd love to sell the Perl community. If anyone here wants to send me some
text highlighting the resources that people who are new to Perl should
know about, we'll ensure it's featured prominently.

 


Oh, and this is bad, just bad:
http://www.perlmeme.org/howtos/subroutines/perl_files.html

And can you find the runtime errors on this page's code?
http://www.perlmeme.org/howtos/using_perl/display_text_message.html

And plenty of little bugs and typos here:
http://www.perlmeme.org/tutorials/cgi_script.html

There's more and nitpicking seems petty but for a site which has the
stated goal of addressing the "many irrational anti-Perl memes", it
really needs to get things right.
   



Ouch. You've highlighted some poor quality control there. We've now
rectified these pages. Thanks for pointing this out.


Henning Møller-Nielsen

 


I for one would like any example showing beginners to use
'require FUNCTIONLIB'  instead of 'use MODULE' to be
removed or edited to be in a style appropriate
for Perl 5.
   



Appreciate your point. The single 'require' example that we have on the site
is fine as it stands, but it does beg the question of why we didn't mention
"use" in the same place and the important ways it differs... We'll address
this.

Regards,

Simon Taylor
--
Unisolve Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia
+61 3 9568 2005

---

 

Re: New Website for Perl Beginners: perlmeme.org

[Simon Taylor]

Hello,

Thanks to those who provided feedback to Shlomi's announcement a few days 
back.

I've summarized the various criticisms that people made, along with our 
response.

Randal L. Schwartz
>  Unless it's hidden, I'm not finding any obvious link there to the
>  defacto standard location for Perl beginners, .
>  I think this represents broken integrity on your part, since you
>  appear to be trying to replace learn.perl.org, not supplement it, so
>  you're attempting to fracture the community, not enhance it.
>
>  If you add a prominent link to learn.perl.org, I will withdraw my
>  complaint.

We do reference Simon Cozens Beginning Perl book at learn.perl.org
but you're correct that the learn.perl.org site is not made prominent
on perlmeme.org. We can certainly do this.


Gavin Henry
>  I think their intentions are great, but what's wrong with:
>
> * http://learn.perl.org
> * http://faq.perl.org
> * Tutorials
>
>   They talk about their motivations, but it seems like a big duplicate
>   of effort? I think they need to have a links page mentioning things like
>   above.

We link to some good perldoc pages at:
http://perlmeme.org/faqs/references/
and I think that this is probably the place for us to link to the
learn.perl.org urls.


JupiterHost.Net
>   And its not very well done CGI wise (IE super hackable...
>   didn't you check and untaint the input?)
>
>   http://perlmeme.org/misc/feedback.html?url=/joema...
>
>   Thats pretty limmited in scope but not a good idea for a site that is
>   supposed to be giving out good ideas :)

Well, you win.

Ovid
>  In http://perlmeme.org/start_here/our_motivations.html there's a lot of
>  talk about dealing with "anti-Perl memes" and, essentially, how to
>  market Perl.  Given that, I can only wonder why the site creators
>  didn't bother to contact The Perl Foundation
>  (http://www.perlfoundation.org/) as the latter is always interested in
>  new volunteers with energy and creative ability who are willing to help
>  out on that very topic.

I've had pleasant dealings with The Perl Foundation at the Open
Source Developers' Conference, but be honest, it never occured to me to
talk to them about perlmeme.org

>  And is there any mention of the Perl community?  I can't see it there.
>  The site purports to be a resource for "selling" Perl and overcoming
>  the negative reaction many folks have to the language, but the site is
>  little more than a cookbook.  How can one market Perl and leave out one
>  of its strongest selling points?

We'd love to sell the Perl community. If anyone here wants to send me some
text highlighting the resources that people who are new to Perl should
know about, we'll ensure it's featured prominently.

> Oh, and this is bad, just bad:
>  http://www.perlmeme.org/howtos/subroutines/perl_files.html
>
>  And can you find the runtime errors on this page's code?
>  http://www.perlmeme.org/howtos/using_perl/display_text_message.html
>
>  And plenty of little bugs and typos here:
>  http://www.perlmeme.org/tutorials/cgi_script.html
>
>  There's more and nitpicking seems petty but for a site which has the
>  stated goal of addressing the "many irrational anti-Perl memes", it
>  really needs to get things right.

Ouch. You've highlighted some poor quality control there. We've now
rectified these pages. Thanks for pointing this out.


Henning Møller-Nielsen
>  I for one would like any example showing beginners to use 
>  'require FUNCTIONLIB'  instead of 'use MODULE' to be 
>  removed or edited to be in a style appropriate
>  for Perl 5.

Appreciate your point. The single 'require' example that we have on the site 
is fine as it stands, but it does beg the question of why we didn't mention 
"use" in the same place and the important ways it differs... We'll address 
this.

Regards,

Simon Taylor
-- 
Unisolve Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia
+61 3 9568 2005

Fwd: Re: New Website for Perl Beginners: perlmeme.org

[Shlomi Fish]

Forwarding the message from Simon...

Shlomi Fish

--  Forwarded Message  --

Subject: Re: New Website for Perl Beginners: perlmeme.org
Date: Tuesday 04 October 2005 10:33
From: Simon Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: advocacy@perl.org

Hello,

Thanks to those who provided feedback to Shlomi's announcement a few days
back.

I've summarized the various criticisms that people made, along with our
response.

Randal L. Schwartz

>  Unless it's hidden, I'm not finding any obvious link there to the
>  defacto standard location for Perl beginners, <http://learn.perl.org>.
>  I think this represents broken integrity on your part, since you
>  appear to be trying to replace learn.perl.org, not supplement it, so
>  you're attempting to fracture the community, not enhance it.
>
>  If you add a prominent link to learn.perl.org, I will withdraw my
>  complaint.

We do reference Simon Cozens Beginning Perl book at learn.perl.org
but you're correct that the learn.perl.org site is not made prominent
on perlmeme.org. We can certainly do this.


Gavin Henry

>  I think their intentions are great, but what's wrong with:
>
> * http://learn.perl.org
> * http://faq.perl.org
> * Tutorials
>
>   They talk about their motivations, but it seems like a big duplicate
>   of effort? I think they need to have a links page mentioning things like
>   above.

We link to some good perldoc pages at:
http://perlmeme.org/faqs/references/
and I think that this is probably the place for us to link to the
learn.perl.org urls.


JupiterHost.Net

>   And its not very well done CGI wise (IE super hackable...
>   didn't you check and untaint the input?)
>
>   http://perlmeme.org/misc/feedback.html?url=/joema...
>
>   Thats pretty limmited in scope but not a good idea for a site that is
>   supposed to be giving out good ideas :)

Well, you win.

Ovid

>  In http://perlmeme.org/start_here/our_motivations.html there's a lot of
>  talk about dealing with "anti-Perl memes" and, essentially, how to
>  market Perl.  Given that, I can only wonder why the site creators
>  didn't bother to contact The Perl Foundation
>  (http://www.perlfoundation.org/) as the latter is always interested in
>  new volunteers with energy and creative ability who are willing to help
>  out on that very topic.

I've had pleasant dealings with The Perl Foundation at the Open
Source Developers' Conference, but be honest, it never occured to me to
talk to them about perlmeme.org

>  And is there any mention of the Perl community?  I can't see it there.
>  The site purports to be a resource for "selling" Perl and overcoming
>  the negative reaction many folks have to the language, but the site is
>  little more than a cookbook.  How can one market Perl and leave out one
>  of its strongest selling points?

We'd love to sell the Perl community. If anyone here wants to send me some
text highlighting the resources that people who are new to Perl should
know about, we'll ensure it's featured prominently.

> Oh, and this is bad, just bad:
>  http://www.perlmeme.org/howtos/subroutines/perl_files.html
>
>  And can you find the runtime errors on this page's code?
>  http://www.perlmeme.org/howtos/using_perl/display_text_message.html
>
>  And plenty of little bugs and typos here:
>  http://www.perlmeme.org/tutorials/cgi_script.html
>
>  There's more and nitpicking seems petty but for a site which has the
>  stated goal of addressing the "many irrational anti-Perl memes", it
>  really needs to get things right.

Ouch. You've highlighted some poor quality control there. We've now
rectified these pages. Thanks for pointing this out.


Henning Møller-Nielsen

>  I for one would like any example showing beginners to use
>  'require FUNCTIONLIB'  instead of 'use MODULE' to be
>  removed or edited to be in a style appropriate
>  for Perl 5.

Appreciate your point. The single 'require' example that we have on the site
is fine as it stands, but it does beg the question of why we didn't mention
"use" in the same place and the important ways it differs... We'll address
this.

Regards,

Simon Taylor
--
Unisolve Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia
+61 3 9568 2005

---

-- 

-
Shlomi Fish  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:http://www.shlomifish.org/

95% of the programmers consider 95% of the code they did not write, in the
bottom 5%.

No Insults, Please! [was Re: New Website for Perl Beginners: perlmeme.org]

[Shlomi Fish]

Hi all!

This thread is getting a bit ridiculous. There are lot of ad-hominem attacks 
here, which I don't like.

If you have some factual critique about perlmeme.org, perl-begin.berlios or 
learn.perl.org, don't hesitate to voice it. It is possible all three of the 
sites could use some work, and outlining the problems is the first step for 
the cure. However, if you're going to insult someone for pointing out 
problems, you're not going to be effective.

So please stick to the facts. And if you feel like correcting one thing or 
another, please also consider sending a patch against the source of one site 
or another. Complaining is easy, but correcting the problem is more rewarding 
for both parties.

A constructive criticism to Randal and other similar participants in this 
discussion: you would be much more effective if you will be less insulting 
and flambouyant, and more pleasant, controlled, supportive, complimentary, 
and as a general rule, friendlier and less socially challenged.

No one is born with good social engineering skills - it is something you work 
on. Not only it is worth your time to develop such skills, but you'll be 
better off in any regards. Randal is a wonderful Perl hacker, tutor and 
writer. But he could be much less controversial if he controlled his temper, 
and stopped accusing people of doing the worst actions since not shipping 
bread loafs sliced.[1]

Finally, I should also note that it is my humble opinion that we should not 
attack people for starting their own Perl beginners' portals, tutorials, 
resources, forums, Wikis or whatever. There are tens if not hundreds of such 
resources for PHP, Java, Visual Basic each, and it only made them more 
popular. I don't see a point in trying to prevent duplicate effort, 
especially considering how much busy the .perl.org admins (Ask Bjorn Hansen, 
etc.) are and how much more straightforward it is to set up one's own site 
where one or his community have complete control.

Regards,

Shlomi Fish

[1] - I should note that friendliness/social engineering and contribution to 
society are not one and the same. Some of the greatest past and present 
villains were very friendly and hospitable (re Al Capone). Some of the 
greatest value producers were antipathic (re Henry Ford). Nevertheless, 
social engineering helps you become better at contributing values to society, 
and enable you to gather more help from the outside. So it's a good idea to 
have it and it's never too late to gain it.

On Monday 03 October 2005 23:26, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > I guess you need the money. You know, to pay those legal fees and all.
>
> Now this comment #really# contributes to the point you want to make. You
> couldn't possibly go lower than this. Bravo!
>
> GM

-- 

-
Shlomi Fish  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:http://www.shlomifish.org/

95% of the programmers consider 95% of the code they did not write, in the
bottom 5%.

Re: New Website for Perl Beginners: perlmeme.org

[george . magklaras]

>
> I guess you need the money. You know, to pay those legal fees and all.
>
>
Now this comment #really# contributes to the point you want to make. You
couldn't possibly go lower than this. Bravo!

GM

RE: New Website for Perl Beginners: perlmeme.org

[Henning Møller-Nielsen]

-Original Message-
> From: John Von Essen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 4:58 PM
> 
>> John> I guess Randal is upset because Shlomi isn't sending traffic to
>> John> a site that promotes his own Book(s) That can be bought from
>> John> Amazon
>>
> Randal> Troll.
>
John> Thats all the confirmation I need.
John>
John> I guess you need the money. You know, to pay those legal fees and all.

Now, that was not a nice thing to write. You made the allegation as quoted 
above just because Randal had some negative points about Shlomi's site.

I think Randal's response is quite precise, but obviously you disagree. It is 
hard to see what it is you got confirmed; Randal is negative, you accuse him of 
having an ulterior motive, he reponds negatively to this, and that is a 
confirmation of what? That he does not agree with your accusation?

Why are you pounding on Randal? There are some valid points about this 
perlmeme.org site that should be addressed, instead of this attacking.

I for one would like any example showing beginners to use 'require FUNCTIONLIB' 
instead of 'use MODULE' to be removed or edited to be in a style appropriate 
for Perl 5.

/Henning

Re: New Website for Perl Beginners: perlmeme.org

[John Von Essen]

> John> I guess Randal is upset because Shlomi isn't sending traffic to
> John> a site that promotes his own Book(s) That can be bought from
> John> Amazon
>
> Troll.

Thats all the confirmation I need.

I guess you need the money. You know, to pay those legal fees and all.

Re: New Website for Perl Beginners: perlmeme.org

[JupiterHost.Net]

Gavin Henry wrote:

Randal L. Schwartz said the following on 02/10/05 13:17:


"Shlomi" == Shlomi Fish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:



Shlomi> Hi good people,
Shlomi> there's a new web-site for Perl beginners - perlmeme.org - 


Shlomi> http://perlmeme.org/

Unless it's hidden, I'm not finding any obvious link there to the
defacto standard location for Perl beginners, .
I think this represents broken integrity on your part, since you
appear to be trying to replace learn.perl.org, not supplement it, so
you're attempting to fracture the community, not enhance it.

If you add a prominent link to learn.perl.org, I will withdraw my
complaint.




And its not very well done CGI wise (IE super hackable... didn't you 
check and untaint the input?)


http://perlmeme.org/misc/feedback.html?url=/joemama/index.joemama&page_title=http://google.com/";>Perlmeme%20is%20a%20good%20idea%20but%20needs%20to%20handle%20input%20safer

Thats pretty limmited in scope but not a good idea for a site that is 
supposed to be giving out good ideas :)

Re: New Website for Perl Beginners: perlmeme.org

[Shlomi Fish]

[De-CCing Beginners]

Hi Ovid!

Thanks a lot for your commentary - I believe it is all valid. Perlmeme.org is 
still under development and still need a lot of extra work. We decided to go 
public now rather than later because Perlmeme was still good enough as it is.

I am CCing this message to Simon Taylor, who'll hopefully take care of 
integrating what you said into the site. If you feel like contributing more, 
or just supervising the work, head on to perlmeme-org.sf.net and choose one 
or more of the ways in which you can help. We'll be glad to have you 
on-board!

Thanks again.

Regards,

Shlomi Fish

On Sunday 02 October 2005 21:21, Ovid wrote:
> --- Shlomi Fish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > http://perlmeme.org/
>
> In http://perlmeme.org/start_here/our_motivations.html there's a lot of
> talk about dealing with "anti-Perl memes" and, essentially, how to
> market Perl.  Given that, I can only wonder why the site creators
> didn't bother to contact The Perl Foundation
> (http://www.perlfoundation.org/) as the latter is always interested in
> new volunteers with energy and creative ability who are willing to help
> out on that very topic.
>
> And is there any mention of the Perl community?  I can't see it there.
> The site purports to be a resource for "selling" Perl and overcoming
> the negative reaction many folks have to the language, but the site is
> little more than a cookbook.  How can one market Perl and leave out one
> of its strongest selling points?
>
> Oh, and this is bad, just bad:
> http://www.perlmeme.org/howtos/subroutines/perl_files.html
>
> And can you find the runtime errors on this page's code?
> http://www.perlmeme.org/howtos/using_perl/display_text_message.html
>
> And plenty of little bugs and typos here:
> http://www.perlmeme.org/tutorials/cgi_script.html
>
> There's more and nitpicking seems petty but for a site which has the
> stated goal of addressing the "many irrational anti-Perl memes", it
> really needs to get things right.
>
> Cheers,
> Ovid

-- 

-
Shlomi Fish  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:http://www.shlomifish.org/

95% of the programmers consider 95% of the code they did not write, in the
bottom 5%.

Re: New Website for Perl Beginners: perlmeme.org

[Randal L. Schwartz]

> "John" == John Von Essen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

John> You guys are a bunch of hypocrites.

Really?  I want the community to have access to the best materials
available.  A lot of work has gone into learn.perl.org, and there is
history of Shlomi not wanting to help learn.perl.org but merely create
his own site for personal motivations.  That's the background for my
statement.

John> I guess Randal is upset because Shlomi isn't sending traffic to
John> a site that promotes his own Book(s) That can be bought from
John> Amazon

Troll.

John> Yes, Shlomi's site states the obvious, and alot of the examples can be
John> found in perldoc's. But his audience doesn't know about perldoc, so
John> its a great resource for someone who has no perl book and no
John> experience -
John> and wants quick access to some real Perl help with some real examples.

And so is learn.perl.org, and if there were complaints to
learn.perl.org, they could have been addressed there.  No need to
waste time duplicating effort.

Note that I will also argue the reciprocal.  Once Ovid's comments are
addressed (I had similar notes when I skimmed the site), there's no
reason that learn.perl.org shouldn't point at perlmeme.org as well.

But at this point, I won't argue that, because Shlomi should probably
spend a bit more time reading good Perl before promoting a site about
learning Perl.  I could recommend a good book, but it'd be feeding the
trolls. :)

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
 http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

Re: New Website for Perl Beginners: perlmeme.org

[Ovid]

--- Shlomi Fish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> http://perlmeme.org/

In http://perlmeme.org/start_here/our_motivations.html there's a lot of
talk about dealing with "anti-Perl memes" and, essentially, how to
market Perl.  Given that, I can only wonder why the site creators
didn't bother to contact The Perl Foundation
(http://www.perlfoundation.org/) as the latter is always interested in
new volunteers with energy and creative ability who are willing to help
out on that very topic.

And is there any mention of the Perl community?  I can't see it there. 
The site purports to be a resource for "selling" Perl and overcoming
the negative reaction many folks have to the language, but the site is
little more than a cookbook.  How can one market Perl and leave out one
of its strongest selling points?

Oh, and this is bad, just bad: 
http://www.perlmeme.org/howtos/subroutines/perl_files.html

And can you find the runtime errors on this page's code? 
http://www.perlmeme.org/howtos/using_perl/display_text_message.html

And plenty of little bugs and typos here: 
http://www.perlmeme.org/tutorials/cgi_script.html

There's more and nitpicking seems petty but for a site which has the
stated goal of addressing the "many irrational anti-Perl memes", it
really needs to get things right.

Cheers,
Ovid

-- 
If this message is a response to a question on a mailing list, please send
follow up questions to the list.

Web Programming with Perl -- http://users.easystreet.com/ovid/cgi_course/

Re: New Website for Perl Beginners: perlmeme.org

[Shlomi Fish]

Hi Randal!

Thank you very much for your commentary. Now for my comments.

On Sunday 02 October 2005 14:17, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
> > "Shlomi" == Shlomi Fish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> Shlomi> Hi good people,
> Shlomi> there's a new web-site for Perl beginners - perlmeme.org -
>
> Shlomi> http://perlmeme.org/
>
> Unless it's hidden, I'm not finding any obvious link there to the
> defacto standard location for Perl beginners, .

That may be possible. Perlmeme.org is still under constant development, and 
many important content and links are missing. As far as I'm concerned a link 
to learn.perl.org should be added very soon, at the very least because it 
also contains some online books including the first edition of Beginning 
Perl. 

> I think this represents broken integrity on your part, since you
> appear to be trying to replace learn.perl.org, not supplement it, so
> you're attempting to fracture the community, not enhance it.

Just a note: while being a perlmeme.org contributor I am by no means am 
leading this project. I'm sorry if I gave this impression, but my intention 
in the original message was to just publicize perlmeme.org. I believe Simon 
Taylor (CCed to this message) and other collaborators of his, are more of an 
authority as far as perlmeme.org is concerned. 

I believe they'll gladly accept any good patches to the site, either from 
Randal or from someone else. 

>
> If you add a prominent link to learn.perl.org, I will withdraw my
> complaint.

OK. Just note that perlmeme.org is a very different site that learn.perl.org 
(and to some extent perl-begin.berlios.de) and they both fill different 
niches. I'm still looking for more contributors for perl-begin, including 
people who can populate its wiki with useful content:

http://perl-begin.berlios.de/Wiki/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page

Thanks again!

Regards,

Shlomi Fish

-
Shlomi Fish  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage:http://www.shlomifish.org/

95% of the programmers consider 95% of the code they did not write, in the
bottom 5%.

Re: New Website for Perl Beginners: perlmeme.org

[John Von Essen]

You guys are a bunch of hypocrites.

Okay, so Shlomi didn't link to the "holy" learn.perl.org site. Big 
deal. Its his site, it is a self-contained learning site and he doesn't 
feel his audience has anything to gain by going to learn.perl.org. And 
to be perfectly honest, trying to learn perl from learn.perl.org is a 
waste of time, its just a bunch of ads for Books.


I guess Randal is upset because Shlomi isn't sending traffic to a site 
that promotes his own Book(s) That can be bought from Amazon


Yes, Shlomi's site states the obvious, and alot of the examples can be 
found in perldoc's. But his audience doesn't know about perldoc, so its 
a great resource for someone who has no perl book and no experience - 
and wants quick access to some real Perl help with some real examples.



-John Von Essen



On Oct 2, 2005, at 8:17 AM, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:


"Shlomi" == Shlomi Fish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:


Shlomi> Hi good people,
Shlomi> there's a new web-site for Perl beginners - perlmeme.org -

Shlomi> http://perlmeme.org/

Unless it's hidden, I'm not finding any obvious link there to the
defacto standard location for Perl beginners, .
I think this represents broken integrity on your part, since you
appear to be trying to replace learn.perl.org, not supplement it, so
you're attempting to fracture the community, not enhance it.

If you add a prominent link to learn.perl.org, I will withdraw my
complaint.

--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 
0095

 http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl 
training!

Re: New Website for Perl Beginners: perlmeme.org

[Gavin Henry]

Randal L. Schwartz said the following on 02/10/05 13:17:
>>"Shlomi" == Shlomi Fish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> 
> Shlomi> Hi good people,
> Shlomi> there's a new web-site for Perl beginners - perlmeme.org - 
> 
> Shlomi> http://perlmeme.org/
> 
> Unless it's hidden, I'm not finding any obvious link there to the
> defacto standard location for Perl beginners, .
> I think this represents broken integrity on your part, since you
> appear to be trying to replace learn.perl.org, not supplement it, so
> you're attempting to fracture the community, not enhance it.
> 
> If you add a prominent link to learn.perl.org, I will withdraw my
> complaint.


I agree with this, and mentioned my thoughts here:

http://perlmonks.org/?node_id=496511

Thanks,

Gavin.

Re: New Website for Perl Beginners: perlmeme.org

[Randal L. Schwartz]

> "Shlomi" == Shlomi Fish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Shlomi> Hi good people,
Shlomi> there's a new web-site for Perl beginners - perlmeme.org - 

Shlomi> http://perlmeme.org/

Unless it's hidden, I'm not finding any obvious link there to the
defacto standard location for Perl beginners, .
I think this represents broken integrity on your part, since you
appear to be trying to replace learn.perl.org, not supplement it, so
you're attempting to fracture the community, not enhance it.

If you add a prominent link to learn.perl.org, I will withdraw my
complaint.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
 http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!