Re: [AFMUG] Urgent message for Chuck Macenski!

[Seth Mattinen]

On 9/6/19 2:39 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
ha ha, yeah, right. Maybe in the year 2025. I would suggest to anyone 
that wants to know traffic stats that they poll the switches or routers 
on each end of an airfiber link. The only useful values you can get from 
an airfiber via SNMP are things like modulation scheme, RSL, 
temperatures. All of which thankfully fit within 32 bit integer values.


They're too busy re-implementing speedtest.net at the moment.

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

[Darin Steffl]

It all comes down to ROI. It doesn't pay to have redundant fiber rings
sometimes so they don't do it.

70 miles is nothing. I'm sure in Colorado or Montana, etc there's plenty of
fiber that is a stub where there's hundreds of miles with no redundancy.

Or if you order a wavelength cross country, there could be thousands of
miles with zero redundancy unless you pay big bucks to have a second
geographic route.

Customers simply think fiber is bulletproof and as long as it isn't cut,
that's mostly true. But cuts are frequent and take awhile to fix and people
don't expect that.


On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, 11:10 PM Colin Stanners  wrote:

> Any fiber provider who doesn't have redundancy for a 70 mile run should be
> out of business. Cuts happen and should be planned for... But it's not
> obvious to customers which companies have their network properly designed.
>
> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, 11:04 PM Darin Steffl 
> wrote:
>
>> We've also seen business customers leave us for fiber because it's
>> "fiber" and when we followup after 6 months, they inform us of the 2 or 3
>> fiber cuts they had with them and how we were actually more reliable.
>>
>> Funny how they don't believe our redundancy claims until they deal with
>> their new fiber provider who doesn't have any redundancy for 70 miles of
>> fiber.
>>
>> We monitor all fiber cuts in Minnesota and the average is 20 hours to
>> fix, the best I've seen in 7 years is 7 hours and worst is 72 hours.
>>
>> It's a battle trying to convince people that our backhaul network is more
>> reliable than fiber networks that aren't on rings.
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, 4:29 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>
>>> Microwave backhaul is probably the most reliable thing there is.  If
>>> power is provided at both end points and neither end point is struck by a
>>> meteor then the backhaul is up.
>>>
>>> When you install thousands of individual customers and compare the
>>> number of trouble calls and truck rolls, then I do think it's a different
>>> animal.
>>>
>>> I'm not trashing wireless.  I've been in the ISP business for 20 years,
>>> and 15 of them were in wireless.  My life is built around it.  I'm just
>>> telling you what the future looks like to me.
>>>
>>> -Adam
>>>
>>> On 9/6/2019 4:25 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>>
>>> I’m not saying you can’t drill through rock but that’s why most
>>> everything in Pennsylvania is areal and why it’s so expensive to try to
>>> drill.
>>>
>>> And to everyone who says that fiber is more reliable than microwave,
>>> right now in the Outer Banks in North Carolina there is power out all over
>>> the place, fiber optic circuits that are down, and yet our microwave
>>> wireless networks are still trucking there  and they haven’t missed a beat
>>> through the entire storm.
>>>
>>> On Sep 6, 2019, at 4:18 PM,   wrote:
>>>
>>> I chewed through about $2K of carbide bits on a 6’ diameter rock saw
>>> last week.  Not cheap.
>>>
>>> *From:* Adam Moffett
>>> *Sent:* Friday, September 6, 2019 2:15 PM
>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber
>>>
>>> How about a 6' diameter rock saw?
>>> There's a tool for every job right?
>>>
>>> On 9/6/2019 4:07 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>>
>>> I just googled the geology of central Pennsylvania.
>>> Yeah, that is definitely some serious rock you got going there.
>>>
>>> *From:* Mike Hammett
>>> *Sent:* Friday, September 6, 2019 1:57 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber
>>>
>>> Assumingly at considerably more expense.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The Brothers WISP 
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> --
>>> *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
>>> *Sent: *Friday, September 6, 2019 2:56:08 PM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Fiber
>>>
>>> I do rock all day long.  Even solid rock at times.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Matt Hoppes
>>> Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 1:53 PM
>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber
>>>
>>> Rock.
>>>
>>> > On Sep 6, 2019, at 3:44 PM, mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Why?
>>> >
>>> > -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
>>> > Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 10:40 AM
>>> > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Colin Stanners
>>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber
>>> >
>>> > And the cost to run 

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

[Colin Stanners]

Any fiber provider who doesn't have redundancy for a 70 mile run should be
out of business. Cuts happen and should be planned for... But it's not
obvious to customers which companies have their network properly designed.

On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, 11:04 PM Darin Steffl  wrote:

> We've also seen business customers leave us for fiber because it's "fiber"
> and when we followup after 6 months, they inform us of the 2 or 3 fiber
> cuts they had with them and how we were actually more reliable.
>
> Funny how they don't believe our redundancy claims until they deal with
> their new fiber provider who doesn't have any redundancy for 70 miles of
> fiber.
>
> We monitor all fiber cuts in Minnesota and the average is 20 hours to fix,
> the best I've seen in 7 years is 7 hours and worst is 72 hours.
>
> It's a battle trying to convince people that our backhaul network is more
> reliable than fiber networks that aren't on rings.
>
> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, 4:29 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> Microwave backhaul is probably the most reliable thing there is.  If
>> power is provided at both end points and neither end point is struck by a
>> meteor then the backhaul is up.
>>
>> When you install thousands of individual customers and compare the number
>> of trouble calls and truck rolls, then I do think it's a different animal.
>>
>> I'm not trashing wireless.  I've been in the ISP business for 20 years,
>> and 15 of them were in wireless.  My life is built around it.  I'm just
>> telling you what the future looks like to me.
>>
>> -Adam
>>
>> On 9/6/2019 4:25 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>
>> I’m not saying you can’t drill through rock but that’s why most
>> everything in Pennsylvania is areal and why it’s so expensive to try to
>> drill.
>>
>> And to everyone who says that fiber is more reliable than microwave,
>> right now in the Outer Banks in North Carolina there is power out all over
>> the place, fiber optic circuits that are down, and yet our microwave
>> wireless networks are still trucking there  and they haven’t missed a beat
>> through the entire storm.
>>
>> On Sep 6, 2019, at 4:18 PM,   wrote:
>>
>> I chewed through about $2K of carbide bits on a 6’ diameter rock saw last
>> week.  Not cheap.
>>
>> *From:* Adam Moffett
>> *Sent:* Friday, September 6, 2019 2:15 PM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber
>>
>> How about a 6' diameter rock saw?
>> There's a tool for every job right?
>>
>> On 9/6/2019 4:07 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>
>> I just googled the geology of central Pennsylvania.
>> Yeah, that is definitely some serious rock you got going there.
>>
>> *From:* Mike Hammett
>> *Sent:* Friday, September 6, 2019 1:57 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber
>>
>> Assumingly at considerably more expense.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Friday, September 6, 2019 2:56:08 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Fiber
>>
>> I do rock all day long.  Even solid rock at times.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Matt Hoppes
>> Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 1:53 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber
>>
>> Rock.
>>
>> > On Sep 6, 2019, at 3:44 PM, mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com
>> mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>> >
>> > Why?
>> >
>> > -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
>> > Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 10:40 AM
>> > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Colin Stanners
>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber
>> >
>> > And the cost to run underground fiber in central Pennsylvania is
>> > astronomical -- if not impossible.
>> >
>> >> On 9/6/19 12:37 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
>> >> Then they need to move to underground, as long as it's done well and
>> the
>> >> other utilities are good with CBYD, chances of problems are very small.
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 11:32 AM Matt Hoppes
>> >> > >> mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>That's what everyone keeps saying but my fiber provider sends me
>> >>e-mails every other week about pole fires taking out fiber, trees
>> >>taking
>> >>out fiber, wind taking out fiber, etc.
>> >>
>> >>On 9/6/19 12:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>> >> > When it's broken it can be expensive, but frankly it doesn't
>> >>   

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

[Darin Steffl]

We've also seen business customers leave us for fiber because it's "fiber"
and when we followup after 6 months, they inform us of the 2 or 3 fiber
cuts they had with them and how we were actually more reliable.

Funny how they don't believe our redundancy claims until they deal with
their new fiber provider who doesn't have any redundancy for 70 miles of
fiber.

We monitor all fiber cuts in Minnesota and the average is 20 hours to fix,
the best I've seen in 7 years is 7 hours and worst is 72 hours.

It's a battle trying to convince people that our backhaul network is more
reliable than fiber networks that aren't on rings.

On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, 4:29 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Microwave backhaul is probably the most reliable thing there is.  If power
> is provided at both end points and neither end point is struck by a meteor
> then the backhaul is up.
>
> When you install thousands of individual customers and compare the number
> of trouble calls and truck rolls, then I do think it's a different animal.
>
> I'm not trashing wireless.  I've been in the ISP business for 20 years,
> and 15 of them were in wireless.  My life is built around it.  I'm just
> telling you what the future looks like to me.
>
> -Adam
>
> On 9/6/2019 4:25 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>
> I’m not saying you can’t drill through rock but that’s why most everything
> in Pennsylvania is areal and why it’s so expensive to try to drill.
>
> And to everyone who says that fiber is more reliable than microwave, right
> now in the Outer Banks in North Carolina there is power out all over the
> place, fiber optic circuits that are down, and yet our microwave wireless
> networks are still trucking there  and they haven’t missed a beat through
> the entire storm.
>
> On Sep 6, 2019, at 4:18 PM,   wrote:
>
> I chewed through about $2K of carbide bits on a 6’ diameter rock saw last
> week.  Not cheap.
>
> *From:* Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Friday, September 6, 2019 2:15 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber
>
> How about a 6' diameter rock saw?
> There's a tool for every job right?
>
> On 9/6/2019 4:07 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> I just googled the geology of central Pennsylvania.
> Yeah, that is definitely some serious rock you got going there.
>
> *From:* Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Friday, September 6, 2019 1:57 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber
>
> Assumingly at considerably more expense.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, September 6, 2019 2:56:08 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Fiber
>
> I do rock all day long.  Even solid rock at times.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 1:53 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber
>
> Rock.
>
> > On Sep 6, 2019, at 3:44 PM, mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com
> mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> >
> > Why?
> >
> > -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
> > Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 10:40 AM
> > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Colin Stanners
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber
> >
> > And the cost to run underground fiber in central Pennsylvania is
> > astronomical -- if not impossible.
> >
> >> On 9/6/19 12:37 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
> >> Then they need to move to underground, as long as it's done well and
> the
> >> other utilities are good with CBYD, chances of problems are very small.
> >>
> >> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 11:32 AM Matt Hoppes
> >>  >> mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>That's what everyone keeps saying but my fiber provider sends me
> >>e-mails every other week about pole fires taking out fiber, trees
> >>taking
> >>out fiber, wind taking out fiber, etc.
> >>
> >>On 9/6/19 12:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
> >> > When it's broken it can be expensive, but frankly it doesn't
> >>break that
> >> > often.
> >> > -Adam
> >> >
> >> > On 9/6/2019 12:29 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> >> >> Except the contractor gets paid every time the fiber gets broken.
> >> >>
> >> >> On 9/6/19 12:18 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
> >> >>> If you've only got 2 or 3 people *total* then you'd be relying
> on
> >> >>> contractors a lot and basically just being an owner/GC.  Your
> >>

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

[Adam Moffett]

Microwave backhaul is probably the most reliable thing there is.  If 
power is provided at both end points and neither end point is struck by 
a meteor then the backhaul is up.


When you install thousands of individual customers and compare the 
number of trouble calls and truck rolls, then I do think it's a 
different animal.


I'm not trashing wireless.  I've been in the ISP business for 20 years, 
and 15 of them were in wireless.  My life is built around it.  I'm just 
telling you what the future looks like to me.


-Adam

On 9/6/2019 4:25 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
I’m not saying you can’t drill through rock but that’s why most 
everything in Pennsylvania is areal and why it’s so expensive to try 
to drill.


And to everyone who says that fiber is more reliable than microwave, 
right now in the Outer Banks in North Carolina there is power out all 
over the place, fiber optic circuits that are down, and yet our 
microwave wireless networks are still trucking there  and they haven’t 
missed a beat through the entire storm.


On Sep 6, 2019, at 4:18 PM, mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:


I chewed through about $2K of carbide bits on a 6’ diameter rock saw 
last week.  Not cheap.

*From:* Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Friday, September 6, 2019 2:15 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber
How about a 6' diameter rock saw?
There's a tool for every job right?

On 9/6/2019 4:07 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

I just googled the geology of central Pennsylvania.
Yeah, that is definitely some serious rock you got going there.
*From:* Mike Hammett
*Sent:* Friday, September 6, 2019 1:57 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber
Assumingly at considerably more expense.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





*From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
*Sent: *Friday, September 6, 2019 2:56:08 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

I do rock all day long.  Even solid rock at times.

-Original Message-
From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 1:53 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

Rock.

> On Sep 6, 2019, at 3:44 PM, mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

>
> Why?
>
> -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 10:40 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Colin Stanners
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber
>
> And the cost to run underground fiber in central Pennsylvania is
> astronomical -- if not impossible.
>
>> On 9/6/19 12:37 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
>> Then they need to move to underground, as long as it's done well 
and the
>> other utilities are good with CBYD, chances of problems are very 
small.

>>
>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 11:32 AM Matt Hoppes
>> > mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>>
>>    That's what everyone keeps saying but my fiber provider 
sends me

>>    e-mails every other week about pole fires taking out fiber, trees
>>    taking
>>    out fiber, wind taking out fiber, etc.
>>
>>    On 9/6/19 12:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>> > When it's broken it can be expensive, but frankly it doesn't
>>    break that
>> > often.
>> > -Adam
>> >
>> > On 9/6/2019 12:29 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>> >> Except the contractor gets paid every time the fiber gets 
broken.

>> >>
>> >> On 9/6/19 12:18 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>> >>> If you've only got 2 or 3 people *total* then you'd be 
relying on

>> >>> contractors a lot and basically just being an owner/GC.  Your
>>    capex
>> >>> will be higher than with in-house labor, but console 
yourself

>> with
>> >>> the idea that the contractor only gets paid once, and you 
get

>> paid
>> >>> for 50 years.
>> >>>
>> >>> -Adam
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On 9/6/2019 8:30 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>  People ask why I don’t do fiber. The following story 
pretty much
>>  sums it up. For those doing fiber, how do you do it with 
a 2 or

>> 3
>>  man team? We’d be run ragged.  How do you stay sain?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  Someone was logging up in Ogdensburg near Joe Hill and 
took a

>>    tree
>>  down which took another tree down which took another 
tree down

>>    which
>>  snapped off the side 

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

[Ken Hohhof]

Yes, Chuck is a rock star.
Rock around the clock.

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 2:56 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

I do rock all day long.  Even solid rock at times.

-Original Message-
From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 1:53 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

Rock.

> On Sep 6, 2019, at 3:44 PM,   wrote:
>
> Why?
>
> -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 10:40 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Colin Stanners
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber
>
> And the cost to run underground fiber in central Pennsylvania is 
> astronomical -- if not impossible.
>
>> On 9/6/19 12:37 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
>> Then they need to move to underground, as long as it's done well and 
>> the other utilities are good with CBYD, chances of problems are very small.
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 11:32 AM Matt Hoppes 
>> > > wrote:
>>
>>That's what everyone keeps saying but my fiber provider sends me
>>e-mails every other week about pole fires taking out fiber, trees
>>taking
>>out fiber, wind taking out fiber, etc.
>>
>>On 9/6/19 12:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>> > When it's broken it can be expensive, but frankly it doesn't
>>break that
>> > often.
>> > -Adam
>> >
>> > On 9/6/2019 12:29 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>> >> Except the contractor gets paid every time the fiber gets broken.
>> >>
>> >> On 9/6/19 12:18 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>> >>> If you've only got 2 or 3 people *total* then you'd be relying on
>> >>> contractors a lot and basically just being an owner/GC.  Your
>>capex
>> >>> will be higher than with in-house labor, but console yourself 
>> with
>> >>> the idea that the contractor only gets paid once, and you get 
>> paid
>> >>> for 50 years.
>> >>>
>> >>> -Adam
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On 9/6/2019 8:30 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>  People ask why I don’t do fiber. The following story pretty much
>>  sums it up. For those doing fiber, how do you do it with a 2 
>> or
>> 3
>>  man team?  We’d be run ragged.  How do you stay sain?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  Someone was logging up in Ogdensburg near Joe Hill and took a
>>tree
>>  down which took another tree down which took another tree down
>>which
>>  snapped off the side arms of the utility pole taking out the
>>  powerlines which burned the fiber underneath it.
>> 
>> 
>>  Last night about 11 o’clock I drove up there on my way home and
>>  found the Crown Castle guys trying to figure out where the fiber
>>  damage was, I talk to them for a moment and they were like
>>yeah it’s
>>  like 2500 feet away from here but we can’t figure out where the
>>  fiber goes, I said follow me, so they got over there and
>>started work.
>> 
>> 
>>  Zito was already over there fixing their fiber with about 10 
>> guys
>>  and five trucks.
>> 
>> 
>>  I just spun back up there and as of this morning they (both
>>  companies) are still trying to figure out why the fiber is not
>>working.
>> 
>> 
>>  Add to this the utility easement is on the side of a 
>> mountain and
>>  not right beside the road. These guys had entire teams and
>>haven’t
>>  fixed 1,500ft of fiber in 12 hours plus had to wait nearly
>>7hrs to
>>  even access the local due to power lines down.
>> 
>> 
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >
>>
>>-- AF mailing list
>>AF@af.afmug.com 
>>http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>
> --
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] EPMP SmartAntenna

[Gino A. Villarini]

Make sense that the gain on the sector provides a better snr than the 
selectiveness of the smart antenna…


Gino Villarini
Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
m:
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www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 
Guaynabo, PR 00968
From: AF  on behalf of Nate Burke 
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Date: Friday, September 6, 2019 at 4:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] EPMP SmartAntenna

A reboot of the AP or a reboot of the SM?  I just noticed it today because I 
hooked up a new client, Signal level is fine, but I'm only getting about 3-4mb 
on the upload.  They're connected to the sector.I would expect they would 
do better on the smart antenna.
On 9/6/2019 2:56 PM, 
can...@believewireless.net wrote:
What we have seen is that clients will mostly use the smart antenna initially 
and then switch to the sector.
What is odd is that a reboot moves them back to the smart antenna. Talking to 
Cambium, they said that
the sector is probably the best option for the client which I'm not buying.

On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 3:45 PM Nate Burke 
mailto:n...@blastcomm.com>> wrote:
1-6 miles
On 9/6/2019 2:41 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
What is the distance to the clients?


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[cid:~WRD397.jpg][cid:~WRD397.jpg][cid:~WRD397.jpg][cid:~WRD397.jpg]
Midwest Internet Exchange
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The Brothers WISP
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From: "Nate Burke" 
To: "Animal Farm" 
Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 2:38:37 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] EPMP SmartAntenna

I have a couple 2000 Ap's installed with the Smart Antenna.  The AP is
set to 'Auto' for antenna selection.  I don't have a single SM that is
using the smart antenna.  They are all using the sector.  Is that
normal?  Does it only choose the smart antenna when there is lots of noise?

I have a couple SM's that have poor uplink performance.  Would forcing
them to the Smart antenna help, or would they just drop completely out.

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

[Trey Scarborough]

Yeah Pennsylvania is next to impossible to do underground. Not only due 
to rock, but its a mix so a rock saw won't cut through dirt. Plus once 
you get in town you have to worry about a 100 year old sewer pipe.




On 9/6/2019 3:18 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
I chewed through about $2K of carbide bits on a 6’ diameter rock saw 
last week.  Not cheap.

*From:* Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Friday, September 6, 2019 2:15 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber
How about a 6' diameter rock saw?
There's a tool for every job right?

On 9/6/2019 4:07 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

I just googled the geology of central Pennsylvania.
Yeah, that is definitely some serious rock you got going there.
*From:* Mike Hammett
*Sent:* Friday, September 6, 2019 1:57 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber
Assumingly at considerably more expense.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





*From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
*Sent: *Friday, September 6, 2019 2:56:08 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

I do rock all day long.  Even solid rock at times.

-Original Message-
From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 1:53 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

Rock.

> On Sep 6, 2019, at 3:44 PM, mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

>
> Why?
>
> -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 10:40 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Colin Stanners
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber
>
> And the cost to run underground fiber in central Pennsylvania is
> astronomical -- if not impossible.
>
>> On 9/6/19 12:37 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
>> Then they need to move to underground, as long as it's done well 
and the
>> other utilities are good with CBYD, chances of problems are very 
small.

>>
>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 11:32 AM Matt Hoppes
>> > mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>>
>>    That's what everyone keeps saying but my fiber provider 
sends me

>>    e-mails every other week about pole fires taking out fiber, trees
>>    taking
>>    out fiber, wind taking out fiber, etc.
>>
>>    On 9/6/19 12:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>> > When it's broken it can be expensive, but frankly it doesn't
>>    break that
>> > often.
>> > -Adam
>> >
>> > On 9/6/2019 12:29 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>> >> Except the contractor gets paid every time the fiber gets 
broken.

>> >>
>> >> On 9/6/19 12:18 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>> >>> If you've only got 2 or 3 people *total* then you'd be 
relying on

>> >>> contractors a lot and basically just being an owner/GC.  Your
>>    capex
>> >>> will be higher than with in-house labor, but console yourself
>> with
>> >>> the idea that the contractor only gets paid once, and you get
>> paid
>> >>> for 50 years.
>> >>>
>> >>> -Adam
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On 9/6/2019 8:30 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>  People ask why I don’t do fiber. The following story 
pretty much
>>  sums it up. For those doing fiber, how do you do it with 
a 2 or

>> 3
>>  man team?  We’d be run ragged.  How do you stay sain?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  Someone was logging up in Ogdensburg near Joe Hill and took a
>>    tree
>>  down which took another tree down which took another tree 
down

>>    which
>>  snapped off the side arms of the utility pole taking out the
>>  powerlines which burned the fiber underneath it.
>> 
>> 
>>  Last night about 11 o’clock I drove up there on my way 
home and
>>  found the Crown Castle guys trying to figure out where 
the fiber

>>  damage was, I talk to them for a moment and they were like
>>    yeah it’s
>>  like 2500 feet away from here but we can’t figure out 
where the

>>  fiber goes, I said follow me, so they got over there and
>>    started work.
>> 
>> 
>>  Zito was already over there fixing their fiber with about 10
>> guys
>>  and five trucks.
>> 
>> 
>>  I just spun back up there and as of this morning they (both
>>  companies) are still trying to figure out why the fiber 
is not

>>    working.
>> 
>> 

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

[Matt Hoppes]

I’m not saying you can’t drill through rock but that’s why most everything in 
Pennsylvania is areal and why it’s so expensive to try to drill.

And to everyone who says that fiber is more reliable than microwave, right now 
in the Outer Banks in North Carolina there is power out all over the place, 
fiber optic circuits that are down, and yet our microwave wireless networks are 
still trucking there  and they haven’t missed a beat through the entire storm.

> On Sep 6, 2019, at 4:18 PM,   wrote:
> 
> I chewed through about $2K of carbide bits on a 6’ diameter rock saw last 
> week.  Not cheap. 
>  
> From: Adam Moffett
> Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 2:15 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber
>  
> How about a 6' diameter rock saw? 
> There's a tool for every job right?
> 
>> On 9/6/2019 4:07 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>> I just googled the geology of central Pennsylvania. 
>> Yeah, that is definitely some serious rock you got going there. 
>>  
>> From: Mike Hammett
>> Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 1:57 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber
>>  
>> Assumingly at considerably more expense.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: ch...@wbmfg.com
>> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
>> Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 2:56:08 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber
>> 
>> I do rock all day long.  Even solid rock at times.
>> 
>> -Original Message- 
>> From: Matt Hoppes
>> Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 1:53 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber
>> 
>> Rock.
>> 
>> > On Sep 6, 2019, at 3:44 PM, mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com 
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > Why?
>> >
>> > -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
>> > Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 10:40 AM
>> > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Colin Stanners
>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber
>> >
>> > And the cost to run underground fiber in central Pennsylvania is
>> > astronomical -- if not impossible.
>> >
>> >> On 9/6/19 12:37 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
>> >> Then they need to move to underground, as long as it's done well and the 
>> >> other utilities are good with CBYD, chances of problems are very small.
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 11:32 AM Matt Hoppes 
>> >> > >> mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>That's what everyone keeps saying but my fiber provider sends me
>> >>e-mails every other week about pole fires taking out fiber, trees
>> >>taking
>> >>out fiber, wind taking out fiber, etc.
>> >>
>> >>On 9/6/19 12:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>> >> > When it's broken it can be expensive, but frankly it doesn't
>> >>break that
>> >> > often.
>> >> > -Adam
>> >> >
>> >> > On 9/6/2019 12:29 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>> >> >> Except the contractor gets paid every time the fiber gets broken.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On 9/6/19 12:18 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>> >> >>> If you've only got 2 or 3 people *total* then you'd be relying on
>> >> >>> contractors a lot and basically just being an owner/GC.  Your
>> >>capex
>> >> >>> will be higher than with in-house labor, but console yourself 
>> >> with
>> >> >>> the idea that the contractor only gets paid once, and you get 
>> >> paid
>> >> >>> for 50 years.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> -Adam
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> On 9/6/2019 8:30 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>> >>  People ask why I don’t do fiber. The following story pretty much
>> >>  sums it up. For those doing fiber, how do you do it with a 2 or 
>> >> 3
>> >>  man team?  We’d be run ragged.  How do you stay sain?
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >>  Someone was logging up in Ogdensburg near Joe Hill and took a
>> >>tree
>> >>  down which took another tree down which took another tree down
>> >>which
>> >>  snapped off the side arms of the utility pole taking out the
>> >>  powerlines which burned the fiber underneath it.
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >>  Last night about 11 o’clock I drove up there on my way home and
>> >>  found the Crown Castle guys trying to figure out where the fiber
>> >>  damage was, I talk to them for a moment and they were like
>> >>yeah it’s
>> >>  like 2500 feet away from here but we can’t figure out where the
>> >>  fiber goes, I said follow me, so they got over there and
>> >>started work.
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >>  Zito was already over there fixing their fiber with about 10 
>> >> guys
>> >>  and five trucks.
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >>  I just spun back up there and as of this morning they (both
>> >>  companies) are still trying to figure out why the fiber is not
>> 

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

[chuck]

I chewed through about $2K of carbide bits on a 6’ diameter rock saw last week. 
 Not cheap.  

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 2:15 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

How about a 6' diameter rock saw? 
There's a tool for every job right?


On 9/6/2019 4:07 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  I just googled the geology of central Pennsylvania.  
  Yeah, that is definitely some serious rock you got going there.  

  From: Mike Hammett 
  Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 1:57 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

  Assumingly at considerably more expense.




  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






--

  From: ch...@wbmfg.com
  To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 2:56:08 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

  I do rock all day long.  Even solid rock at times.

  -Original Message- 
  From: Matt Hoppes
  Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 1:53 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

  Rock.

  > On Sep 6, 2019, at 3:44 PM, mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com 
wrote:
  >
  > Why?
  >
  > -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
  > Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 10:40 AM
  > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Colin Stanners
  > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber
  >
  > And the cost to run underground fiber in central Pennsylvania is
  > astronomical -- if not impossible.
  >
  >> On 9/6/19 12:37 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
  >> Then they need to move to underground, as long as it's done well and the 
  >> other utilities are good with CBYD, chances of problems are very small.
  >>
  >> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 11:32 AM Matt Hoppes 
  >> > mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
  >>
  >>That's what everyone keeps saying but my fiber provider sends me
  >>e-mails every other week about pole fires taking out fiber, trees
  >>taking
  >>out fiber, wind taking out fiber, etc.
  >>
  >>On 9/6/19 12:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
  >> > When it's broken it can be expensive, but frankly it doesn't
  >>break that
  >> > often.
  >> > -Adam
  >> >
  >> > On 9/6/2019 12:29 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
  >> >> Except the contractor gets paid every time the fiber gets broken.
  >> >>
  >> >> On 9/6/19 12:18 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
  >> >>> If you've only got 2 or 3 people *total* then you'd be relying on
  >> >>> contractors a lot and basically just being an owner/GC.  Your
  >>capex
  >> >>> will be higher than with in-house labor, but console yourself 
  >> with
  >> >>> the idea that the contractor only gets paid once, and you get 
  >> paid
  >> >>> for 50 years.
  >> >>>
  >> >>> -Adam
  >> >>>
  >> >>>
  >> >>> On 9/6/2019 8:30 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
  >>  People ask why I don’t do fiber. The following story pretty much
  >>  sums it up. For those doing fiber, how do you do it with a 2 or 
  >> 3
  >>  man team?  We’d be run ragged.  How do you stay sain?
  >> 
  >> 
  >> 
  >> 
  >> 
  >>  Someone was logging up in Ogdensburg near Joe Hill and took a
  >>tree
  >>  down which took another tree down which took another tree down
  >>which
  >>  snapped off the side arms of the utility pole taking out the
  >>  powerlines which burned the fiber underneath it.
  >> 
  >> 
  >>  Last night about 11 o’clock I drove up there on my way home and
  >>  found the Crown Castle guys trying to figure out where the fiber
  >>  damage was, I talk to them for a moment and they were like
  >>yeah it’s
  >>  like 2500 feet away from here but we can’t figure out where the
  >>  fiber goes, I said follow me, so they got over there and
  >>started work.
  >> 
  >> 
  >>  Zito was already over there fixing their fiber with about 10 
  >> guys
  >>  and five trucks.
  >> 
  >> 
  >>  I just spun back up there and as of this morning they (both
  >>  companies) are still trying to figure out why the fiber is not
  >>working.
  >> 
  >> 
  >>  Add to this the utility easement is on the side of a mountain 
  >> and
  >>  not right beside the road. These guys had entire teams and
  >>haven’t
  >>  fixed 1,500ft of fiber in 12 hours plus had to wait nearly
  >>7hrs to
  >>  even access the local due to power lines down.
  >> 
  >> 
  >> >>>
  >> >>>
  >> >
  >>
  >>-- AF mailing list
  >>AF@af.afmug.com mailto:AF@af.afmug.com
  >>http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
  >>
  >>
  >
  > -- 
 

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

[Adam Moffett]

How about a 6' diameter rock saw?
There's a tool for every job right?

On 9/6/2019 4:07 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

I just googled the geology of central Pennsylvania.
Yeah, that is definitely some serious rock you got going there.
*From:* Mike Hammett
*Sent:* Friday, September 6, 2019 1:57 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber
Assumingly at considerably more expense.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





*From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
*Sent: *Friday, September 6, 2019 2:56:08 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

I do rock all day long.  Even solid rock at times.

-Original Message-
From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 1:53 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

Rock.

> On Sep 6, 2019, at 3:44 PM,   wrote:
>
> Why?
>
> -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 10:40 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Colin Stanners
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber
>
> And the cost to run underground fiber in central Pennsylvania is
> astronomical -- if not impossible.
>
>> On 9/6/19 12:37 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
>> Then they need to move to underground, as long as it's done well 
and the

>> other utilities are good with CBYD, chances of problems are very small.
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 11:32 AM Matt Hoppes
>> > > wrote:
>>
>>    That's what everyone keeps saying but my fiber provider sends me
>>    e-mails every other week about pole fires taking out fiber, trees
>>    taking
>>    out fiber, wind taking out fiber, etc.
>>
>>    On 9/6/19 12:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>> > When it's broken it can be expensive, but frankly it doesn't
>>    break that
>> > often.
>> > -Adam
>> >
>> > On 9/6/2019 12:29 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>> >> Except the contractor gets paid every time the fiber gets 
broken.

>> >>
>> >> On 9/6/19 12:18 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>> >>> If you've only got 2 or 3 people *total* then you'd be 
relying on

>> >>> contractors a lot and basically just being an owner/GC.  Your
>>    capex
>> >>> will be higher than with in-house labor, but console yourself
>> with
>> >>> the idea that the contractor only gets paid once, and you get
>> paid
>> >>> for 50 years.
>> >>>
>> >>> -Adam
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On 9/6/2019 8:30 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>  People ask why I don’t do fiber. The following story 
pretty much
>>  sums it up. For those doing fiber, how do you do it with a 
2 or

>> 3
>>  man team?  We’d be run ragged.  How do you stay sain?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  Someone was logging up in Ogdensburg near Joe Hill and took a
>>    tree
>>  down which took another tree down which took another tree down
>>    which
>>  snapped off the side arms of the utility pole taking out the
>>  powerlines which burned the fiber underneath it.
>> 
>> 
>>  Last night about 11 o’clock I drove up there on my way 
home and
>>  found the Crown Castle guys trying to figure out where the 
fiber

>>  damage was, I talk to them for a moment and they were like
>>    yeah it’s
>>  like 2500 feet away from here but we can’t figure out 
where the

>>  fiber goes, I said follow me, so they got over there and
>>    started work.
>> 
>> 
>>  Zito was already over there fixing their fiber with about 10
>> guys
>>  and five trucks.
>> 
>> 
>>  I just spun back up there and as of this morning they (both
>>  companies) are still trying to figure out why the fiber is not
>>    working.
>> 
>> 
>>  Add to this the utility easement is on the side of a mountain
>> and
>>  not right beside the road. These guys had entire teams and
>>    haven’t
>>  fixed 1,500ft of fiber in 12 hours plus had to wait nearly
>>    7hrs to
>>  even access the local due to power lines down.
>> 
>> 
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >
>>
>>    -- AF mailing list
>>    AF@af.afmug.com 
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

[chuck]

I just googled the geology of central Pennsylvania.  
Yeah, that is definitely some serious rock you got going there.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 1:57 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

Assumingly at considerably more expense.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 2:56:08 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

I do rock all day long.  Even solid rock at times.

-Original Message- 
From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 1:53 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

Rock.

> On Sep 6, 2019, at 3:44 PM,   wrote:
>
> Why?
>
> -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 10:40 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Colin Stanners
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber
>
> And the cost to run underground fiber in central Pennsylvania is
> astronomical -- if not impossible.
>
>> On 9/6/19 12:37 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
>> Then they need to move to underground, as long as it's done well and the 
>> other utilities are good with CBYD, chances of problems are very small.
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 11:32 AM Matt Hoppes 
>> > > wrote:
>>
>>That's what everyone keeps saying but my fiber provider sends me
>>e-mails every other week about pole fires taking out fiber, trees
>>taking
>>out fiber, wind taking out fiber, etc.
>>
>>On 9/6/19 12:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>> > When it's broken it can be expensive, but frankly it doesn't
>>break that
>> > often.
>> > -Adam
>> >
>> > On 9/6/2019 12:29 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>> >> Except the contractor gets paid every time the fiber gets broken.
>> >>
>> >> On 9/6/19 12:18 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>> >>> If you've only got 2 or 3 people *total* then you'd be relying on
>> >>> contractors a lot and basically just being an owner/GC.  Your
>>capex
>> >>> will be higher than with in-house labor, but console yourself 
>> with
>> >>> the idea that the contractor only gets paid once, and you get 
>> paid
>> >>> for 50 years.
>> >>>
>> >>> -Adam
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On 9/6/2019 8:30 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>  People ask why I don’t do fiber. The following story pretty much
>>  sums it up. For those doing fiber, how do you do it with a 2 or 
>> 3
>>  man team?  We’d be run ragged.  How do you stay sain?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  Someone was logging up in Ogdensburg near Joe Hill and took a
>>tree
>>  down which took another tree down which took another tree down
>>which
>>  snapped off the side arms of the utility pole taking out the
>>  powerlines which burned the fiber underneath it.
>> 
>> 
>>  Last night about 11 o’clock I drove up there on my way home and
>>  found the Crown Castle guys trying to figure out where the fiber
>>  damage was, I talk to them for a moment and they were like
>>yeah it’s
>>  like 2500 feet away from here but we can’t figure out where the
>>  fiber goes, I said follow me, so they got over there and
>>started work.
>> 
>> 
>>  Zito was already over there fixing their fiber with about 10 
>> guys
>>  and five trucks.
>> 
>> 
>>  I just spun back up there and as of this morning they (both
>>  companies) are still trying to figure out why the fiber is not
>>working.
>> 
>> 
>>  Add to this the utility easement is on the side of a mountain 
>> and
>>  not right beside the road. These guys had entire teams and
>>haven’t
>>  fixed 1,500ft of fiber in 12 hours plus had to wait nearly
>>7hrs to
>>  even access the local due to power lines down.
>> 
>> 
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >
>>
>>-- AF mailing list
>>AF@af.afmug.com 
>>http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 


-- 
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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com





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Re: [AFMUG] 900 mhz PMP100 (LASTCALL)

[Craig House]

We threw away 100 of them last month

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 6, 2019, at 14:38, Andy Trimmell  wrote:
> 
> Going in the trash Monday morning.
>  
> From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Andy Trimmell
> Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2019 10:25 AM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: [AFMUG] 900 mhz PMP100
>  
> Anyone have any use for a bunch of 900 clients units along with antennas?  
> We’re moving and they’re either getting sent somewhere or I’m throwing them 
> away. I remembered at one point Cambium was taking some for overseas projects 
> to get internet to grief stricken areas.  Anyone?
>  
> Andy Trimmell
> Business Manager
> PDS Connect
> 317-831-3000
>  
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Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

[chuck]

Depends, if my plow can rip it the cost really does not increase much.  
Or if our rock bits on our drills can grind through it.  
Lots of different kind of rock.  
Rock mixed with soil is not a huge problem.  
Solid cobble can be plowed but not drilled.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 1:57 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

Assumingly at considerably more expense.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 2:56:08 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

I do rock all day long.  Even solid rock at times.

-Original Message- 
From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 1:53 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

Rock.

> On Sep 6, 2019, at 3:44 PM,   wrote:
>
> Why?
>
> -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 10:40 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Colin Stanners
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber
>
> And the cost to run underground fiber in central Pennsylvania is
> astronomical -- if not impossible.
>
>> On 9/6/19 12:37 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
>> Then they need to move to underground, as long as it's done well and the 
>> other utilities are good with CBYD, chances of problems are very small.
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 11:32 AM Matt Hoppes 
>> > > wrote:
>>
>>That's what everyone keeps saying but my fiber provider sends me
>>e-mails every other week about pole fires taking out fiber, trees
>>taking
>>out fiber, wind taking out fiber, etc.
>>
>>On 9/6/19 12:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>> > When it's broken it can be expensive, but frankly it doesn't
>>break that
>> > often.
>> > -Adam
>> >
>> > On 9/6/2019 12:29 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>> >> Except the contractor gets paid every time the fiber gets broken.
>> >>
>> >> On 9/6/19 12:18 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>> >>> If you've only got 2 or 3 people *total* then you'd be relying on
>> >>> contractors a lot and basically just being an owner/GC.  Your
>>capex
>> >>> will be higher than with in-house labor, but console yourself 
>> with
>> >>> the idea that the contractor only gets paid once, and you get 
>> paid
>> >>> for 50 years.
>> >>>
>> >>> -Adam
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On 9/6/2019 8:30 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>  People ask why I don’t do fiber. The following story pretty much
>>  sums it up. For those doing fiber, how do you do it with a 2 or 
>> 3
>>  man team?  We’d be run ragged.  How do you stay sain?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  Someone was logging up in Ogdensburg near Joe Hill and took a
>>tree
>>  down which took another tree down which took another tree down
>>which
>>  snapped off the side arms of the utility pole taking out the
>>  powerlines which burned the fiber underneath it.
>> 
>> 
>>  Last night about 11 o’clock I drove up there on my way home and
>>  found the Crown Castle guys trying to figure out where the fiber
>>  damage was, I talk to them for a moment and they were like
>>yeah it’s
>>  like 2500 feet away from here but we can’t figure out where the
>>  fiber goes, I said follow me, so they got over there and
>>started work.
>> 
>> 
>>  Zito was already over there fixing their fiber with about 10 
>> guys
>>  and five trucks.
>> 
>> 
>>  I just spun back up there and as of this morning they (both
>>  companies) are still trying to figure out why the fiber is not
>>working.
>> 
>> 
>>  Add to this the utility easement is on the side of a mountain 
>> and
>>  not right beside the road. These guys had entire teams and
>>haven’t
>>  fixed 1,500ft of fiber in 12 hours plus had to wait nearly
>>7hrs to
>>  even access the local due to power lines down.
>> 
>> 
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >
>>
>>-- AF mailing list
>>AF@af.afmug.com 
>>http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] EPMP SmartAntenna

[Nate Burke]

A reboot of the AP or a reboot of the SM?  I just noticed it today 
because I hooked up a new client, Signal level is fine, but I'm only 
getting about 3-4mb on the upload.  They're connected to the sector.
I would expect they would do better on the smart antenna.


On 9/6/2019 2:56 PM, can...@believewireless.net wrote:
What we have seen is that clients will mostly use the smart antenna 
initially and then switch to the sector.
What is odd is that a reboot moves them back to the smart antenna. 
Talking to Cambium, they said that
the sector is probably the best option for the client which I'm not 
buying.


On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 3:45 PM Nate Burke > wrote:


1-6 miles

On 9/6/2019 2:41 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

What is the distance to the clients?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Nate Burke"  
*To: *"Animal Farm"  
*Sent: *Friday, September 6, 2019 2:38:37 PM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] EPMP SmartAntenna

I have a couple 2000 Ap's installed with the Smart Antenna.  The
AP is
set to 'Auto' for antenna selection.  I don't have a single SM
that is
using the smart antenna.  They are all using the sector.  Is that
normal?  Does it only choose the smart antenna when there is lots
of noise?

I have a couple SM's that have poor uplink performance.  Would
forcing
them to the Smart antenna help, or would they just drop
completely out.

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Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

[Mike Hammett]

Assumingly at considerably more expense. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 2:56:08 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber 

I do rock all day long. Even solid rock at times. 

-Original Message- 
From: Matt Hoppes 
Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 1:53 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber 

Rock. 

> On Sep 6, 2019, at 3:44 PM,   wrote: 
> 
> Why? 
> 
> -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes 
> Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 10:40 AM 
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Colin Stanners 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber 
> 
> And the cost to run underground fiber in central Pennsylvania is 
> astronomical -- if not impossible. 
> 
>> On 9/6/19 12:37 PM, Colin Stanners wrote: 
>> Then they need to move to underground, as long as it's done well and the 
>> other utilities are good with CBYD, chances of problems are very small. 
>> 
>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 11:32 AM Matt Hoppes 
>> > > wrote: 
>> 
>> That's what everyone keeps saying but my fiber provider sends me 
>> e-mails every other week about pole fires taking out fiber, trees 
>> taking 
>> out fiber, wind taking out fiber, etc. 
>> 
>> On 9/6/19 12:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote: 
>> > When it's broken it can be expensive, but frankly it doesn't 
>> break that 
>> > often. 
>> > -Adam 
>> > 
>> > On 9/6/2019 12:29 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote: 
>> >> Except the contractor gets paid every time the fiber gets broken. 
>> >> 
>> >> On 9/6/19 12:18 PM, Adam Moffett wrote: 
>> >>> If you've only got 2 or 3 people *total* then you'd be relying on 
>> >>> contractors a lot and basically just being an owner/GC. Your 
>> capex 
>> >>> will be higher than with in-house labor, but console yourself 
>> with 
>> >>> the idea that the contractor only gets paid once, and you get 
>> paid 
>> >>> for 50 years. 
>> >>> 
>> >>> -Adam 
>> >>> 
>> >>> 
>> >>> On 9/6/2019 8:30 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote: 
>>  People ask why I don’t do fiber. The following story pretty much 
>>  sums it up. For those doing fiber, how do you do it with a 2 or 
>> 3 
>>  man team? We’d be run ragged. How do you stay sain? 
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  Someone was logging up in Ogdensburg near Joe Hill and took a 
>> tree 
>>  down which took another tree down which took another tree down 
>> which 
>>  snapped off the side arms of the utility pole taking out the 
>>  powerlines which burned the fiber underneath it. 
>>  
>>  
>>  Last night about 11 o’clock I drove up there on my way home and 
>>  found the Crown Castle guys trying to figure out where the fiber 
>>  damage was, I talk to them for a moment and they were like 
>> yeah it’s 
>>  like 2500 feet away from here but we can’t figure out where the 
>>  fiber goes, I said follow me, so they got over there and 
>> started work. 
>>  
>>  
>>  Zito was already over there fixing their fiber with about 10 
>> guys 
>>  and five trucks. 
>>  
>>  
>>  I just spun back up there and as of this morning they (both 
>>  companies) are still trying to figure out why the fiber is not 
>> working. 
>>  
>>  
>>  Add to this the utility easement is on the side of a mountain 
>> and 
>>  not right beside the road. These guys had entire teams and 
>> haven’t 
>>  fixed 1,500ft of fiber in 12 hours plus had to wait nearly 
>> 7hrs to 
>>  even access the local due to power lines down. 
>>  
>>  
>> >>> 
>> >>> 
>> > 
>> 
>> -- AF mailing list 
>> AF@af.afmug.com  
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
>> 
>> 
> 
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> 
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Re: [AFMUG] EPMP SmartAntenna

[can...@believewireless.net]

What we have seen is that clients will mostly use the smart antenna
initially and then switch to the sector.
What is odd is that a reboot moves them back to the smart antenna. Talking
to Cambium, they said that
the sector is probably the best option for the client which I'm not buying.

On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 3:45 PM Nate Burke  wrote:

> 1-6 miles
>
> On 9/6/2019 2:41 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>
> What is the distance to the clients?
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Nate Burke"  
> *To: *"Animal Farm"  
> *Sent: *Friday, September 6, 2019 2:38:37 PM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] EPMP SmartAntenna
>
> I have a couple 2000 Ap's installed with the Smart Antenna.  The AP is
> set to 'Auto' for antenna selection.  I don't have a single SM that is
> using the smart antenna.  They are all using the sector.  Is that
> normal?  Does it only choose the smart antenna when there is lots of noise?
>
> I have a couple SM's that have poor uplink performance.  Would forcing
> them to the Smart antenna help, or would they just drop completely out.
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

[Matt Hoppes]

Rock. 

> On Sep 6, 2019, at 3:44 PM,   wrote:
> 
> Why?
> 
> -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 10:40 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Colin Stanners
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber
> 
> And the cost to run underground fiber in central Pennsylvania is
> astronomical -- if not impossible.
> 
>> On 9/6/19 12:37 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
>> Then they need to move to underground, as long as it's done well and the 
>> other utilities are good with CBYD, chances of problems are very small.
>> 
>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 11:32 AM Matt Hoppes 
>> > > wrote:
>> 
>>That's what everyone keeps saying but my fiber provider sends me
>>e-mails every other week about pole fires taking out fiber, trees
>>taking
>>out fiber, wind taking out fiber, etc.
>> 
>>On 9/6/19 12:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>> > When it's broken it can be expensive, but frankly it doesn't
>>break that
>> > often.
>> > -Adam
>> >
>> > On 9/6/2019 12:29 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>> >> Except the contractor gets paid every time the fiber gets broken.
>> >>
>> >> On 9/6/19 12:18 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>> >>> If you've only got 2 or 3 people *total* then you'd be relying on
>> >>> contractors a lot and basically just being an owner/GC.  Your
>>capex
>> >>> will be higher than with in-house labor, but console yourself with
>> >>> the idea that the contractor only gets paid once, and you get paid
>> >>> for 50 years.
>> >>>
>> >>> -Adam
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On 9/6/2019 8:30 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>  People ask why I don’t do fiber. The following story pretty much
>>  sums it up. For those doing fiber, how do you do it with a 2 or 3
>>  man team?  We’d be run ragged.  How do you stay sain?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  Someone was logging up in Ogdensburg near Joe Hill and took a
>>tree
>>  down which took another tree down which took another tree down
>>which
>>  snapped off the side arms of the utility pole taking out the
>>  powerlines which burned the fiber underneath it.
>> 
>> 
>>  Last night about 11 o’clock I drove up there on my way home and
>>  found the Crown Castle guys trying to figure out where the fiber
>>  damage was, I talk to them for a moment and they were like
>>yeah it’s
>>  like 2500 feet away from here but we can’t figure out where the
>>  fiber goes, I said follow me, so they got over there and
>>started work.
>> 
>> 
>>  Zito was already over there fixing their fiber with about 10 guys
>>  and five trucks.
>> 
>> 
>>  I just spun back up there and as of this morning they (both
>>  companies) are still trying to figure out why the fiber is not
>>working.
>> 
>> 
>>  Add to this the utility easement is on the side of a mountain and
>>  not right beside the road. These guys had entire teams and
>>haven’t
>>  fixed 1,500ft of fiber in 12 hours plus had to wait nearly
>>7hrs to
>>  even access the local due to power lines down.
>> 
>> 
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >
>> 
>>-- AF mailing list
>>AF@af.afmug.com 
>>http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> 
>> 
> 
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> 
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Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

[chuck]

Why?

-Original Message- 
From: Matt Hoppes

Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 10:40 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Colin Stanners
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

And the cost to run underground fiber in central Pennsylvania is
astronomical -- if not impossible.

On 9/6/19 12:37 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
Then they need to move to underground, as long as it's done well and the 
other utilities are good with CBYD, chances of problems are very small.


On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 11:32 AM Matt Hoppes 
> wrote:


That's what everyone keeps saying but my fiber provider sends me
e-mails every other week about pole fires taking out fiber, trees
taking
out fiber, wind taking out fiber, etc.

On 9/6/19 12:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
 > When it's broken it can be expensive, but frankly it doesn't
break that
 > often.
 > -Adam
 >
 > On 9/6/2019 12:29 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
 >> Except the contractor gets paid every time the fiber gets broken.
 >>
 >> On 9/6/19 12:18 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
 >>> If you've only got 2 or 3 people *total* then you'd be relying on
 >>> contractors a lot and basically just being an owner/GC.  Your
capex
 >>> will be higher than with in-house labor, but console yourself 
with
 >>> the idea that the contractor only gets paid once, and you get 
paid

 >>> for 50 years.
 >>>
 >>> -Adam
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> On 9/6/2019 8:30 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
  People ask why I don’t do fiber. The following story pretty much
  sums it up. For those doing fiber, how do you do it with a 2 or 
3

  man team?  We’d be run ragged.  How do you stay sain?
 
 
 
 
 
  Someone was logging up in Ogdensburg near Joe Hill and took a
tree
  down which took another tree down which took another tree down
which
  snapped off the side arms of the utility pole taking out the
  powerlines which burned the fiber underneath it.
 
 
  Last night about 11 o’clock I drove up there on my way home and
  found the Crown Castle guys trying to figure out where the fiber
  damage was, I talk to them for a moment and they were like
yeah it’s
  like 2500 feet away from here but we can’t figure out where the
  fiber goes, I said follow me, so they got over there and
started work.
 
 
  Zito was already over there fixing their fiber with about 10 
guys

  and five trucks.
 
 
  I just spun back up there and as of this morning they (both
  companies) are still trying to figure out why the fiber is not
working.
 
 
  Add to this the utility easement is on the side of a mountain 
and

  not right beside the road. These guys had entire teams and
haven’t
  fixed 1,500ft of fiber in 12 hours plus had to wait nearly
7hrs to
  even access the local due to power lines down.
 
 
 >>>
 >>>
 >

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Re: [AFMUG] EPMP SmartAntenna

[Nate Burke]

1-6 miles

On 9/6/2019 2:41 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

What is the distance to the clients?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Nate Burke" 
*To: *"Animal Farm" 
*Sent: *Friday, September 6, 2019 2:38:37 PM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] EPMP SmartAntenna

I have a couple 2000 Ap's installed with the Smart Antenna.  The AP is
set to 'Auto' for antenna selection.  I don't have a single SM that is
using the smart antenna.  They are all using the sector.  Is that
normal?  Does it only choose the smart antenna when there is lots of 
noise?


I have a couple SM's that have poor uplink performance.  Would forcing
them to the Smart antenna help, or would they just drop completely out.

--
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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com





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Re: [AFMUG] EPMP SmartAntenna

[Mike Hammett]

What is the distance to the clients? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Nate Burke"  
To: "Animal Farm"  
Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 2:38:37 PM 
Subject: [AFMUG] EPMP SmartAntenna 

I have a couple 2000 Ap's installed with the Smart Antenna. The AP is 
set to 'Auto' for antenna selection. I don't have a single SM that is 
using the smart antenna. They are all using the sector. Is that 
normal? Does it only choose the smart antenna when there is lots of noise? 

I have a couple SM's that have poor uplink performance. Would forcing 
them to the Smart antenna help, or would they just drop completely out. 

-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

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[AFMUG] EPMP SmartAntenna

[Nate Burke]

I have a couple 2000 Ap's installed with the Smart Antenna.  The AP is 
set to 'Auto' for antenna selection.  I don't have a single SM that is 
using the smart antenna.  They are all using the sector.  Is that 
normal?  Does it only choose the smart antenna when there is lots of noise?


I have a couple SM's that have poor uplink performance.  Would forcing 
them to the Smart antenna help, or would they just drop completely out.


--
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[AFMUG] 900 mhz PMP100 (LASTCALL)

[Andy Trimmell]

Going in the trash Monday morning.

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Andy Trimmell
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2019 10:25 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] 900 mhz PMP100

 

Anyone have any use for a bunch of 900 clients units along with
antennas?  We're moving and they're either getting sent somewhere or I'm
throwing them away. I remembered at one point Cambium was taking some
for overseas projects to get internet to grief stricken areas.  Anyone?

 

Andy Trimmell

Business Manager

PDS Connect

317-831-3000

 

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[AFMUG] PMP320

[Andy Trimmell]

Selling a lot of PMP320 CPEs to a good home. Qty 40 I believe. Send me
offlist. Buyer pays shipping.

 

Andy Trimmell

Business Manager

PDS Connect

317-831-3000

 

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Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

[Colin Stanners]

FTTH is a bit difficult to justify in untreed areas where you can do a few
hundred Mbps on LOS wireless. But in treed areas that would be limited to
<50mbps on wireless, fiber is the best option.

To feed towers with the new wireless platforms that can add up to 1Gbps+
per tower, it's only possible to go through 1-2 wireless hops before the
bandwidth needs get to a few Gbps, past the limits of most long-distance
wireless platforms and available spectrum, and that will require a fiber
backbone to those core towers in the upcoming years.
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Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

[Craig Schmaderer]

Started fiber in 2012 and never looked back.   Every profit my wireless makes 
goes into expanding the fiber plant.   My design is always based on what will 
take the least maintenance once installed.  It defiantly cost more to do it the 
way we do it, but we forget we have customers once they are installed.   We 
splice everything, and install customer drops in 3/4" conduit and are all 
underground, except for 8 blocks in a down town area.   Once my wireless is 25% 
of my revenue I think I will have a WISP for sale if anyone once it.   I will 
probably be at that in 2 years.  

On 9/6/19, 11:43 AM, "AF on behalf of Robert Andrews"  wrote:

Must be Zayo...

On 09/06/2019 09:31 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> That's what everyone keeps saying but my fiber provider sends me 
> e-mails every other week about pole fires taking out fiber, trees taking 
> out fiber, wind taking out fiber, etc.
> 
> On 9/6/19 12:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>> When it's broken it can be expensive, but frankly it doesn't break 
>> that often.
>> -Adam
>>
>> On 9/6/2019 12:29 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>> Except the contractor gets paid every time the fiber gets broken.
>>>
>>> On 9/6/19 12:18 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
 If you've only got 2 or 3 people *total* then you'd be relying on 
 contractors a lot and basically just being an owner/GC.  Your capex 
 will be higher than with in-house labor, but console yourself with 
 the idea that the contractor only gets paid once, and you get paid 
 for 50 years.

 -Adam


 On 9/6/2019 8:30 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> People ask why I don’t do fiber. The following story pretty much 
> sums it up. For those doing fiber, how do you do it with a 2 or 3 
> man team?  We’d be run ragged.  How do you stay sain?
>
>
>
>
>
> Someone was logging up in Ogdensburg near Joe Hill and took a tree 
> down which took another tree down which took another tree down 
> which snapped off the side arms of the utility pole taking out the 
> powerlines which burned the fiber underneath it.
>
>
> Last night about 11 o’clock I drove up there on my way home and 
> found the Crown Castle guys trying to figure out where the fiber 
> damage was, I talk to them for a moment and they were like yeah 
> it’s like 2500 feet away from here but we can’t figure out where 
> the fiber goes, I said follow me, so they got over there and 
> started work.
>
>
> Zito was already over there fixing their fiber with about 10 guys 
> and five trucks.
>
>
> I just spun back up there and as of this morning they (both 
> companies) are still trying to figure out why the fiber is not 
> working.
>
>
> Add to this the utility easement is on the side of a mountain and 
> not right beside the road. These guys had entire teams and haven’t 
> fixed 1,500ft of fiber in 12 hours plus had to wait nearly 7hrs to 
> even access the local due to power lines down.
>
>


>>
> 

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Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

[Seth Mattinen]

On 9/6/19 9:50 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

Unpopular Opinion time:
DSL is the new dialup.  Wireless is the new DSL.  Nobody wants any of 
those if they can get something better.  You can push the end farther 
down into the future with micro POP's, MU-MIMO, big channel sizes, etc; 
but we're at the top of the hump in the business cycle and the tail is 
looming before us.  Use the cash generated by your wireless business to 
start something new, and/or plan how you'll maximize revenue on the long 
tail.  If fiber ain't your thing that's ok, but figure out some kind of 
plan.



Back when I started doing WISP stuff it was upgrading people from DSL.

I've had customers downgrade from 300Mbps licensed microwave to 50Mbps 
fiber at a higher cost because it was fiber. Often the perception is all 
"wireless" to the customer, and wireless is assumed as poor quality, 
many times by the actions of lesser WISPs. And I don't have the energy 
or sales charisma to convince people otherwise so basically I'm on my 
way out of the WISP business unless someone asks nicely and it's easy 
for me to do.


But the perception that wireless is bad doesn't seem to extend to 
LTE/4G/5G or "mesh" or wifi repeaters other indoors wifi.


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Re: [AFMUG] OT Afternoon project

[Carl Peterson]

It could be a slide rule stick.  Assuming flat sides you could set top and
bottom dia and the stick would calibrate itself

On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 11:30 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Bummer.
>
> On 9/6/2019 12:20 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> I discovered that there is no standard on the dimensions of the bucket.
>
> *From:* Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Friday, September 6, 2019 10:13 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Afternoon project
>
> I wonder if someone already makes a gauge stick for 5-gallon buckets.  If
> not, then maybe there's a new product idea for you.  Sounds like your
> design work is half done already.
>
> On 9/2/2019 10:13 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> Yes then measured with a tape. I want to get a casting of the inside so I
> can get some really accurate measurements so I can also do a calculated
> version.  Also I want to do one on a scale too.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 1, 2019, at 8:53 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> So did you add 1 gallon at a time and mark graduations with a sharpie?
>
> On 8/31/2019 6:00 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> Needed to measure how much compressor oil was actually in a compressor.
> So I made this.
>
>
> --
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
> --
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


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*PORT NETWORKS*

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707
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Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

[Robert Andrews]

& Satellite...???

On 09/06/2019 09:50 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

Unpopular Opinion time:
DSL is the new dialup.  Wireless is the new DSL.  Nobody wants any of 
those if they can get something better.  You can push the end farther 
down into the future with micro POP's, MU-MIMO, big channel sizes, etc; 
but we're at the top of the hump in the business cycle and the tail is 
looming before us.  Use the cash generated by your wireless business to 
start something new, and/or plan how you'll maximize revenue on the long 
tail.  If fiber ain't your thing that's ok, but figure out some kind of 
plan.


...or I'm wrong.  Time will tell.


On 9/6/2019 12:35 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
That being said -- most of the e-mails I get involved circuits I'm on, 
but thanks to rings we don't go down.


On 9/6/19 12:33 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
Imagine if you sent every customer e-mails about every outage every 
time on your network.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
 


Midwest Internet Exchange 
 


The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Matt Hoppes" 
*To: *"Adam Moffett" , "AnimalFarm Microwave 
Users Group" 

*Sent: *Friday, September 6, 2019 11:31:24 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

That's what everyone keeps saying but my fiber provider sends me
e-mails every other week about pole fires taking out fiber, trees taking
out fiber, wind taking out fiber, etc.

On 9/6/19 12:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
 > When it's broken it can be expensive, but frankly it doesn't break 
that

 > often.
 > -Adam
 >
 > On 9/6/2019 12:29 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
 >> Except the contractor gets paid every time the fiber gets broken.
 >>
 >> On 9/6/19 12:18 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
 >>> If you've only got 2 or 3 people *total* then you'd be relying on
 >>> contractors a lot and basically just being an owner/GC.  Your capex
 >>> will be higher than with in-house labor, but console yourself with
 >>> the idea that the contractor only gets paid once, and you get paid
 >>> for 50 years.
 >>>
 >>> -Adam
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> On 9/6/2019 8:30 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
  People ask why I don’t do fiber. The following story pretty much
  sums it up. For those doing fiber, how do you do it with a 2 or 3
  man team?  We’d be run ragged.  How do you stay sain?
 
 
 
 
 
  Someone was logging up in Ogdensburg near Joe Hill and took a tree
  down which took another tree down which took another tree down 
which

  snapped off the side arms of the utility pole taking out the
  powerlines which burned the fiber underneath it.
 
 
  Last night about 11 o’clock I drove up there on my way home and
  found the Crown Castle guys trying to figure out where the fiber
  damage was, I talk to them for a moment and they were like yeah 
it’s

  like 2500 feet away from here but we can’t figure out where the
  fiber goes, I said follow me, so they got over there and 
started work.

 
 
  Zito was already over there fixing their fiber with about 10 guys
  and five trucks.
 
 
  I just spun back up there and as of this morning they (both
  companies) are still trying to figure out why the fiber is not 
working.

 
 
  Add to this the utility easement is on the side of a mountain and
  not right beside the road. These guys had entire teams and haven’t
  fixed 1,500ft of fiber in 12 hours plus had to wait nearly 7hrs to
  even access the local due to power lines down.
 
 
 >>>
 >>>
 >

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Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

[Bill Prince]

Unless and/or until Starlink comes online. It's possible that Starlink 
can provide lower latency than any ground-based technology. The flash 
traders on the stock market will jump on that with both feet.



bp


On 9/6/2019 9:50 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

Unpopular Opinion time:
DSL is the new dialup.  Wireless is the new DSL.  Nobody wants any of 
those if they can get something better.  You can push the end farther 
down into the future with micro POP's, MU-MIMO, big channel sizes, 
etc; but we're at the top of the hump in the business cycle and the 
tail is looming before us.  Use the cash generated by your wireless 
business to start something new, and/or plan how you'll maximize 
revenue on the long tail.  If fiber ain't your thing that's ok, but 
figure out some kind of plan.


...or I'm wrong.  Time will tell.


On 9/6/2019 12:35 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
That being said -- most of the e-mails I get involved circuits I'm 
on, but thanks to rings we don't go down.


On 9/6/19 12:33 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
Imagine if you sent every customer e-mails about every outage every 
time on your network.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
 


Midwest Internet Exchange 
 


The Brothers WISP 




 


*From: *"Matt Hoppes" 
*To: *"Adam Moffett" , "AnimalFarm Microwave 
Users Group" 

*Sent: *Friday, September 6, 2019 11:31:24 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

That's what everyone keeps saying but my fiber provider sends me
e-mails every other week about pole fires taking out fiber, trees 
taking

out fiber, wind taking out fiber, etc.

On 9/6/19 12:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
 > When it's broken it can be expensive, but frankly it doesn't 
break that

 > often.
 > -Adam
 >
 > On 9/6/2019 12:29 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
 >> Except the contractor gets paid every time the fiber gets broken.
 >>
 >> On 9/6/19 12:18 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
 >>> If you've only got 2 or 3 people *total* then you'd be relying on
 >>> contractors a lot and basically just being an owner/GC.  Your 
capex

 >>> will be higher than with in-house labor, but console yourself with
 >>> the idea that the contractor only gets paid once, and you get paid
 >>> for 50 years.
 >>>
 >>> -Adam
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> On 9/6/2019 8:30 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
  People ask why I don’t do fiber. The following story pretty much
  sums it up. For those doing fiber, how do you do it with a 2 or 3
  man team?  We’d be run ragged.  How do you stay sain?
 
 
 
 
 
  Someone was logging up in Ogdensburg near Joe Hill and took a 
tree
  down which took another tree down which took another tree down 
which

  snapped off the side arms of the utility pole taking out the
  powerlines which burned the fiber underneath it.
 
 
  Last night about 11 o’clock I drove up there on my way home and
  found the Crown Castle guys trying to figure out where the fiber
  damage was, I talk to them for a moment and they were like 
yeah it’s

  like 2500 feet away from here but we can’t figure out where the
  fiber goes, I said follow me, so they got over there and 
started work.

 
 
  Zito was already over there fixing their fiber with about 10 guys
  and five trucks.
 
 
  I just spun back up there and as of this morning they (both
  companies) are still trying to figure out why the fiber is not 
working.

 
 
  Add to this the utility easement is on the side of a mountain and
  not right beside the road. These guys had entire teams and 
haven’t
  fixed 1,500ft of fiber in 12 hours plus had to wait nearly 
7hrs to

  even access the local due to power lines down.
 
 
 >>>
 >>>
 >

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Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

[Mike Hammett]

Don't conflate the capabilities of DSL with poor execution by the major telcos. 

If the major telcos had done a reasonable organic build, every town and 
subdivision (not rural areas outside of towns and subdivisions) would have at 
least bonded VDSL, giving every customer in those areas at least a symmetrical 
100 meg. They should be well on their way to something faster such as G.fast. 


Copper pairs are still useful in the hands of competent operators. 




Fiber likely won't fiscally cut it in many rural situations... ever. It should 
be deployed in many more areas than it is, though. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Adam Moffett"  
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 11:50:01 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber 

Unpopular Opinion time: 
DSL is the new dialup. Wireless is the new DSL. Nobody wants any of 
those if they can get something better. You can push the end farther 
down into the future with micro POP's, MU-MIMO, big channel sizes, etc; 
but we're at the top of the hump in the business cycle and the tail is 
looming before us. Use the cash generated by your wireless business to 
start something new, and/or plan how you'll maximize revenue on the long 
tail. If fiber ain't your thing that's ok, but figure out some kind of 
plan. 

...or I'm wrong. Time will tell. 


On 9/6/2019 12:35 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote: 
> That being said -- most of the e-mails I get involved circuits I'm on, 
> but thanks to rings we don't go down. 
> 
> On 9/6/19 12:33 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: 
>> Imagine if you sent every customer e-mails about every outage every 
>> time on your network. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> - 
>> Mike Hammett 
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP  
>>  
>> 
>> 
>>  
>>  
>> *From: *"Matt Hoppes"  
>> *To: *"Adam Moffett" , "AnimalFarm Microwave 
>> Users Group"  
>> *Sent: *Friday, September 6, 2019 11:31:24 AM 
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Fiber 
>> 
>> That's what everyone keeps saying but my fiber provider sends me 
>> e-mails every other week about pole fires taking out fiber, trees taking 
>> out fiber, wind taking out fiber, etc. 
>> 
>> On 9/6/19 12:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote: 
>> > When it's broken it can be expensive, but frankly it doesn't break 
>> that 
>> > often. 
>> > -Adam 
>> > 
>> > On 9/6/2019 12:29 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote: 
>> >> Except the contractor gets paid every time the fiber gets broken. 
>> >> 
>> >> On 9/6/19 12:18 PM, Adam Moffett wrote: 
>> >>> If you've only got 2 or 3 people *total* then you'd be relying on 
>> >>> contractors a lot and basically just being an owner/GC. Your capex 
>> >>> will be higher than with in-house labor, but console yourself with 
>> >>> the idea that the contractor only gets paid once, and you get paid 
>> >>> for 50 years. 
>> >>> 
>> >>> -Adam 
>> >>> 
>> >>> 
>> >>> On 9/6/2019 8:30 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote: 
>>  People ask why I don’t do fiber. The following story pretty much 
>>  sums it up. For those doing fiber, how do you do it with a 2 or 3 
>>  man team? We’d be run ragged. How do you stay sain? 
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  Someone was logging up in Ogdensburg near Joe Hill and took a tree 
>>  down which took another tree down which took another tree down 
>> which 
>>  snapped off the side arms of the utility pole taking out the 
>>  powerlines which burned the fiber underneath it. 
>>  
>>  
>>  Last night about 11 o’clock I drove up there on my way home and 
>>  found the Crown Castle guys trying to figure out where the fiber 
>>  damage was, I talk to them for a moment and they were like yeah 
>> it’s 
>>  like 2500 feet away from here but we can’t figure out where the 
>>  fiber goes, I said follow me, so they got over there and 
>> started work. 
>>  
>>  
>>  Zito was already over there fixing their fiber with about 10 guys 
>>  and five trucks. 
>>  
>>  
>>  I just spun back up there and as of this morning they (both 
>>  companies) are still trying to figure out why the fiber is not 
>> working. 
>>  
>>  
>>  Add to this the utility easement is on the side of a mountain and 
>>  not right beside the road. These guys had entire teams and haven’t 

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

[Clint Wiley]

It's unfortunate if that's an unpopular opinion because it rings true. Find 
some way to prepare for bigger bandwidth requirements from your customers or 
you will lose them.

On 9/6/19, 12:50 PM, "AF on behalf of Adam Moffett"  wrote:

Unpopular Opinion time:
DSL is the new dialup.  Wireless is the new DSL.  Nobody wants any of 
those if they can get something better.  You can push the end farther 
down into the future with micro POP's, MU-MIMO, big channel sizes, etc; 
but we're at the top of the hump in the business cycle and the tail is 
looming before us.  Use the cash generated by your wireless business to 
start something new, and/or plan how you'll maximize revenue on the long 
tail.  If fiber ain't your thing that's ok, but figure out some kind of 
plan.

...or I'm wrong.  Time will tell.


On 9/6/2019 12:35 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> That being said -- most of the e-mails I get involved circuits I'm on, 
> but thanks to rings we don't go down.
>
> On 9/6/19 12:33 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>> Imagine if you sent every customer e-mails about every outage every 
>> time on your network.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 

 
>>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 

 
>>
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> 
>> *From: *"Matt Hoppes" 
>> *To: *"Adam Moffett" , "AnimalFarm Microwave 
>> Users Group" 
>> *Sent: *Friday, September 6, 2019 11:31:24 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Fiber
>>
>> That's what everyone keeps saying but my fiber provider sends me
>> e-mails every other week about pole fires taking out fiber, trees taking
>> out fiber, wind taking out fiber, etc.
>>
>> On 9/6/19 12:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>>  > When it's broken it can be expensive, but frankly it doesn't break 
>> that
>>  > often.
>>  > -Adam
>>  >
>>  > On 9/6/2019 12:29 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>  >> Except the contractor gets paid every time the fiber gets broken.
>>  >>
>>  >> On 9/6/19 12:18 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>>  >>> If you've only got 2 or 3 people *total* then you'd be relying on
>>  >>> contractors a lot and basically just being an owner/GC.  Your capex
>>  >>> will be higher than with in-house labor, but console yourself with
>>  >>> the idea that the contractor only gets paid once, and you get paid
>>  >>> for 50 years.
>>  >>>
>>  >>> -Adam
>>  >>>
>>  >>>
>>  >>> On 9/6/2019 8:30 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>   People ask why I don’t do fiber. The following story pretty much
>>   sums it up. For those doing fiber, how do you do it with a 2 or 3
>>   man team?  We’d be run ragged.  How do you stay sain?
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>   Someone was logging up in Ogdensburg near Joe Hill and took a tree
>>   down which took another tree down which took another tree down 
>> which
>>   snapped off the side arms of the utility pole taking out the
>>   powerlines which burned the fiber underneath it.
>>  
>>  
>>   Last night about 11 o’clock I drove up there on my way home and
>>   found the Crown Castle guys trying to figure out where the fiber
>>   damage was, I talk to them for a moment and they were like yeah 
>> it’s
>>   like 2500 feet away from here but we can’t figure out where the
>>   fiber goes, I said follow me, so they got over there and 
>> started work.
>>  
>>  
>>   Zito was already over there fixing their fiber with about 10 guys
>>   and five trucks.
>>  
>>  
>>   I just spun back up there and as of this morning they (both
>>   companies) are still trying to figure out why the fiber is not 
>> working.
>>  
>>  
>>   Add to this the utility easement is on the side of a mountain and
>>   not right beside the road. These guys had entire teams and haven’t
>>   fixed 1,500ft of fiber in 12 hours plus had to wait nearly 7hrs to
>>   even access the local due to power lines down.
>>  
>>  
>>  >>>
>>  >>>
>>  >
>>
>> -- 
>> AF mailing 

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

[Matt Hoppes]

Why?   Not neccessarily disagreeing with you... but why do you feel that 
way?


If I can get 300-500megabits out of a site and down to a customer that 
seems like that will hold them for many years to come.


On 9/6/19 12:50 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

Unpopular Opinion time:
DSL is the new dialup.  Wireless is the new DSL.  Nobody wants any of 
those if they can get something better.  You can push the end farther 
down into the future with micro POP's, MU-MIMO, big channel sizes, etc; 
but we're at the top of the hump in the business cycle and the tail is 
looming before us.  Use the cash generated by your wireless business to 
start something new, and/or plan how you'll maximize revenue on the long 
tail.  If fiber ain't your thing that's ok, but figure out some kind of 
plan.


...or I'm wrong.  Time will tell.


On 9/6/2019 12:35 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
That being said -- most of the e-mails I get involved circuits I'm on, 
but thanks to rings we don't go down.


On 9/6/19 12:33 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
Imagine if you sent every customer e-mails about every outage every 
time on your network.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
 


Midwest Internet Exchange 
 


The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Matt Hoppes" 
*To: *"Adam Moffett" , "AnimalFarm Microwave 
Users Group" 

*Sent: *Friday, September 6, 2019 11:31:24 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

That's what everyone keeps saying but my fiber provider sends me
e-mails every other week about pole fires taking out fiber, trees taking
out fiber, wind taking out fiber, etc.

On 9/6/19 12:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
 > When it's broken it can be expensive, but frankly it doesn't break 
that

 > often.
 > -Adam
 >
 > On 9/6/2019 12:29 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
 >> Except the contractor gets paid every time the fiber gets broken.
 >>
 >> On 9/6/19 12:18 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
 >>> If you've only got 2 or 3 people *total* then you'd be relying on
 >>> contractors a lot and basically just being an owner/GC.  Your capex
 >>> will be higher than with in-house labor, but console yourself with
 >>> the idea that the contractor only gets paid once, and you get paid
 >>> for 50 years.
 >>>
 >>> -Adam
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> On 9/6/2019 8:30 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
  People ask why I don’t do fiber. The following story pretty much
  sums it up. For those doing fiber, how do you do it with a 2 or 3
  man team?  We’d be run ragged.  How do you stay sain?
 
 
 
 
 
  Someone was logging up in Ogdensburg near Joe Hill and took a tree
  down which took another tree down which took another tree down 
which

  snapped off the side arms of the utility pole taking out the
  powerlines which burned the fiber underneath it.
 
 
  Last night about 11 o’clock I drove up there on my way home and
  found the Crown Castle guys trying to figure out where the fiber
  damage was, I talk to them for a moment and they were like yeah 
it’s

  like 2500 feet away from here but we can’t figure out where the
  fiber goes, I said follow me, so they got over there and 
started work.

 
 
  Zito was already over there fixing their fiber with about 10 guys
  and five trucks.
 
 
  I just spun back up there and as of this morning they (both
  companies) are still trying to figure out why the fiber is not 
working.

 
 
  Add to this the utility easement is on the side of a mountain and
  not right beside the road. These guys had entire teams and haven’t
  fixed 1,500ft of fiber in 12 hours plus had to wait nearly 7hrs to
  even access the local due to power lines down.
 
 
 >>>
 >>>
 >

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Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

[Adam Moffett]

Unpopular Opinion time:
DSL is the new dialup.  Wireless is the new DSL.  Nobody wants any of 
those if they can get something better.  You can push the end farther 
down into the future with micro POP's, MU-MIMO, big channel sizes, etc; 
but we're at the top of the hump in the business cycle and the tail is 
looming before us.  Use the cash generated by your wireless business to 
start something new, and/or plan how you'll maximize revenue on the long 
tail.  If fiber ain't your thing that's ok, but figure out some kind of 
plan.


...or I'm wrong.  Time will tell.


On 9/6/2019 12:35 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
That being said -- most of the e-mails I get involved circuits I'm on, 
but thanks to rings we don't go down.


On 9/6/19 12:33 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
Imagine if you sent every customer e-mails about every outage every 
time on your network.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
 


Midwest Internet Exchange 
 


The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Matt Hoppes" 
*To: *"Adam Moffett" , "AnimalFarm Microwave 
Users Group" 

*Sent: *Friday, September 6, 2019 11:31:24 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

That's what everyone keeps saying but my fiber provider sends me
e-mails every other week about pole fires taking out fiber, trees taking
out fiber, wind taking out fiber, etc.

On 9/6/19 12:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
 > When it's broken it can be expensive, but frankly it doesn't break 
that

 > often.
 > -Adam
 >
 > On 9/6/2019 12:29 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
 >> Except the contractor gets paid every time the fiber gets broken.
 >>
 >> On 9/6/19 12:18 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
 >>> If you've only got 2 or 3 people *total* then you'd be relying on
 >>> contractors a lot and basically just being an owner/GC.  Your capex
 >>> will be higher than with in-house labor, but console yourself with
 >>> the idea that the contractor only gets paid once, and you get paid
 >>> for 50 years.
 >>>
 >>> -Adam
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> On 9/6/2019 8:30 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
  People ask why I don’t do fiber. The following story pretty much
  sums it up. For those doing fiber, how do you do it with a 2 or 3
  man team?  We’d be run ragged.  How do you stay sain?
 
 
 
 
 
  Someone was logging up in Ogdensburg near Joe Hill and took a tree
  down which took another tree down which took another tree down 
which

  snapped off the side arms of the utility pole taking out the
  powerlines which burned the fiber underneath it.
 
 
  Last night about 11 o’clock I drove up there on my way home and
  found the Crown Castle guys trying to figure out where the fiber
  damage was, I talk to them for a moment and they were like yeah 
it’s

  like 2500 feet away from here but we can’t figure out where the
  fiber goes, I said follow me, so they got over there and 
started work.

 
 
  Zito was already over there fixing their fiber with about 10 guys
  and five trucks.
 
 
  I just spun back up there and as of this morning they (both
  companies) are still trying to figure out why the fiber is not 
working.

 
 
  Add to this the utility easement is on the side of a mountain and
  not right beside the road. These guys had entire teams and haven’t
  fixed 1,500ft of fiber in 12 hours plus had to wait nearly 7hrs to
  even access the local due to power lines down.
 
 
 >>>
 >>>
 >

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Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

[Robert Andrews]

Must be Zayo...

On 09/06/2019 09:31 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
That's what everyone keeps saying but my fiber provider sends me 
e-mails every other week about pole fires taking out fiber, trees taking 
out fiber, wind taking out fiber, etc.


On 9/6/19 12:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
When it's broken it can be expensive, but frankly it doesn't break 
that often.

-Adam

On 9/6/2019 12:29 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Except the contractor gets paid every time the fiber gets broken.

On 9/6/19 12:18 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
If you've only got 2 or 3 people *total* then you'd be relying on 
contractors a lot and basically just being an owner/GC.  Your capex 
will be higher than with in-house labor, but console yourself with 
the idea that the contractor only gets paid once, and you get paid 
for 50 years.


-Adam


On 9/6/2019 8:30 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
People ask why I don’t do fiber. The following story pretty much 
sums it up. For those doing fiber, how do you do it with a 2 or 3 
man team?  We’d be run ragged.  How do you stay sain?






Someone was logging up in Ogdensburg near Joe Hill and took a tree 
down which took another tree down which took another tree down 
which snapped off the side arms of the utility pole taking out the 
powerlines which burned the fiber underneath it.



Last night about 11 o’clock I drove up there on my way home and 
found the Crown Castle guys trying to figure out where the fiber 
damage was, I talk to them for a moment and they were like yeah 
it’s like 2500 feet away from here but we can’t figure out where 
the fiber goes, I said follow me, so they got over there and 
started work.



Zito was already over there fixing their fiber with about 10 guys 
and five trucks.



I just spun back up there and as of this morning they (both 
companies) are still trying to figure out why the fiber is not 
working.



Add to this the utility easement is on the side of a mountain and 
not right beside the road. These guys had entire teams and haven’t 
fixed 1,500ft of fiber in 12 hours plus had to wait nearly 7hrs to 
even access the local due to power lines down.












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Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

[Matt Hoppes]

And the cost to run underground fiber in central Pennsylvania is 
astronomical -- if not impossible.


On 9/6/19 12:37 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
Then they need to move to underground, as long as it's done well and the 
other utilities are good with CBYD, chances of problems are very small.


On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 11:32 AM Matt Hoppes 
> wrote:


That's what everyone keeps saying but my fiber provider sends me
e-mails every other week about pole fires taking out fiber, trees
taking
out fiber, wind taking out fiber, etc.

On 9/6/19 12:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
 > When it's broken it can be expensive, but frankly it doesn't
break that
 > often.
 > -Adam
 >
 > On 9/6/2019 12:29 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
 >> Except the contractor gets paid every time the fiber gets broken.
 >>
 >> On 9/6/19 12:18 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
 >>> If you've only got 2 or 3 people *total* then you'd be relying on
 >>> contractors a lot and basically just being an owner/GC.  Your
capex
 >>> will be higher than with in-house labor, but console yourself with
 >>> the idea that the contractor only gets paid once, and you get paid
 >>> for 50 years.
 >>>
 >>> -Adam
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> On 9/6/2019 8:30 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
  People ask why I don’t do fiber. The following story pretty much
  sums it up. For those doing fiber, how do you do it with a 2 or 3
  man team?  We’d be run ragged.  How do you stay sain?
 
 
 
 
 
  Someone was logging up in Ogdensburg near Joe Hill and took a
tree
  down which took another tree down which took another tree down
which
  snapped off the side arms of the utility pole taking out the
  powerlines which burned the fiber underneath it.
 
 
  Last night about 11 o’clock I drove up there on my way home and
  found the Crown Castle guys trying to figure out where the fiber
  damage was, I talk to them for a moment and they were like
yeah it’s
  like 2500 feet away from here but we can’t figure out where the
  fiber goes, I said follow me, so they got over there and
started work.
 
 
  Zito was already over there fixing their fiber with about 10 guys
  and five trucks.
 
 
  I just spun back up there and as of this morning they (both
  companies) are still trying to figure out why the fiber is not
working.
 
 
  Add to this the utility easement is on the side of a mountain and
  not right beside the road. These guys had entire teams and
haven’t
  fixed 1,500ft of fiber in 12 hours plus had to wait nearly
7hrs to
  even access the local due to power lines down.
 
 
 >>>
 >>>
 >

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Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

[Colin Stanners]

Then they need to move to underground, as long as it's done well and the
other utilities are good with CBYD, chances of problems are very small.

On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 11:32 AM Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> That's what everyone keeps saying but my fiber provider sends me
> e-mails every other week about pole fires taking out fiber, trees taking
> out fiber, wind taking out fiber, etc.
>
> On 9/6/19 12:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
> > When it's broken it can be expensive, but frankly it doesn't break that
> > often.
> > -Adam
> >
> > On 9/6/2019 12:29 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> >> Except the contractor gets paid every time the fiber gets broken.
> >>
> >> On 9/6/19 12:18 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
> >>> If you've only got 2 or 3 people *total* then you'd be relying on
> >>> contractors a lot and basically just being an owner/GC.  Your capex
> >>> will be higher than with in-house labor, but console yourself with
> >>> the idea that the contractor only gets paid once, and you get paid
> >>> for 50 years.
> >>>
> >>> -Adam
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 9/6/2019 8:30 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>  People ask why I don’t do fiber. The following story pretty much
>  sums it up. For those doing fiber, how do you do it with a 2 or 3
>  man team?  We’d be run ragged.  How do you stay sain?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Someone was logging up in Ogdensburg near Joe Hill and took a tree
>  down which took another tree down which took another tree down which
>  snapped off the side arms of the utility pole taking out the
>  powerlines which burned the fiber underneath it.
> 
> 
>  Last night about 11 o’clock I drove up there on my way home and
>  found the Crown Castle guys trying to figure out where the fiber
>  damage was, I talk to them for a moment and they were like yeah it’s
>  like 2500 feet away from here but we can’t figure out where the
>  fiber goes, I said follow me, so they got over there and started work.
> 
> 
>  Zito was already over there fixing their fiber with about 10 guys
>  and five trucks.
> 
> 
>  I just spun back up there and as of this morning they (both
>  companies) are still trying to figure out why the fiber is not
> working.
> 
> 
>  Add to this the utility easement is on the side of a mountain and
>  not right beside the road. These guys had entire teams and haven’t
>  fixed 1,500ft of fiber in 12 hours plus had to wait nearly 7hrs to
>  even access the local due to power lines down.
> 
> 
> >>>
> >>>
> >
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

[Matt Hoppes]

That being said -- most of the e-mails I get involved circuits I'm on, 
but thanks to rings we don't go down.


On 9/6/19 12:33 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
Imagine if you sent every customer e-mails about every outage every time 
on your network.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Matt Hoppes" 
*To: *"Adam Moffett" , "AnimalFarm Microwave Users 
Group" 

*Sent: *Friday, September 6, 2019 11:31:24 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

That's what everyone keeps saying but my fiber provider sends me
e-mails every other week about pole fires taking out fiber, trees taking
out fiber, wind taking out fiber, etc.

On 9/6/19 12:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
 > When it's broken it can be expensive, but frankly it doesn't break that
 > often.
 > -Adam
 >
 > On 9/6/2019 12:29 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
 >> Except the contractor gets paid every time the fiber gets broken.
 >>
 >> On 9/6/19 12:18 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
 >>> If you've only got 2 or 3 people *total* then you'd be relying on
 >>> contractors a lot and basically just being an owner/GC.  Your capex
 >>> will be higher than with in-house labor, but console yourself with
 >>> the idea that the contractor only gets paid once, and you get paid
 >>> for 50 years.
 >>>
 >>> -Adam
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> On 9/6/2019 8:30 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
  People ask why I don’t do fiber. The following story pretty much
  sums it up. For those doing fiber, how do you do it with a 2 or 3
  man team?  We’d be run ragged.  How do you stay sain?
 
 
 
 
 
  Someone was logging up in Ogdensburg near Joe Hill and took a tree
  down which took another tree down which took another tree down which
  snapped off the side arms of the utility pole taking out the
  powerlines which burned the fiber underneath it.
 
 
  Last night about 11 o’clock I drove up there on my way home and
  found the Crown Castle guys trying to figure out where the fiber
  damage was, I talk to them for a moment and they were like yeah it’s
  like 2500 feet away from here but we can’t figure out where the
  fiber goes, I said follow me, so they got over there and started work.
 
 
  Zito was already over there fixing their fiber with about 10 guys
  and five trucks.
 
 
  I just spun back up there and as of this morning they (both
  companies) are still trying to figure out why the fiber is not 
working.

 
 
  Add to this the utility easement is on the side of a mountain and
  not right beside the road. These guys had entire teams and haven’t
  fixed 1,500ft of fiber in 12 hours plus had to wait nearly 7hrs to
  even access the local due to power lines down.
 
 
 >>>
 >>>
 >

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Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

[Matt Hoppes]

I would be sending out maybe 2 e-mails a year.

On 9/6/19 12:33 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
Imagine if you sent every customer e-mails about every outage every time 
on your network.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Matt Hoppes" 
*To: *"Adam Moffett" , "AnimalFarm Microwave Users 
Group" 

*Sent: *Friday, September 6, 2019 11:31:24 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

That's what everyone keeps saying but my fiber provider sends me
e-mails every other week about pole fires taking out fiber, trees taking
out fiber, wind taking out fiber, etc.

On 9/6/19 12:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
 > When it's broken it can be expensive, but frankly it doesn't break that
 > often.
 > -Adam
 >
 > On 9/6/2019 12:29 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
 >> Except the contractor gets paid every time the fiber gets broken.
 >>
 >> On 9/6/19 12:18 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
 >>> If you've only got 2 or 3 people *total* then you'd be relying on
 >>> contractors a lot and basically just being an owner/GC.  Your capex
 >>> will be higher than with in-house labor, but console yourself with
 >>> the idea that the contractor only gets paid once, and you get paid
 >>> for 50 years.
 >>>
 >>> -Adam
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> On 9/6/2019 8:30 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
  People ask why I don’t do fiber. The following story pretty much
  sums it up. For those doing fiber, how do you do it with a 2 or 3
  man team?  We’d be run ragged.  How do you stay sain?
 
 
 
 
 
  Someone was logging up in Ogdensburg near Joe Hill and took a tree
  down which took another tree down which took another tree down which
  snapped off the side arms of the utility pole taking out the
  powerlines which burned the fiber underneath it.
 
 
  Last night about 11 o’clock I drove up there on my way home and
  found the Crown Castle guys trying to figure out where the fiber
  damage was, I talk to them for a moment and they were like yeah it’s
  like 2500 feet away from here but we can’t figure out where the
  fiber goes, I said follow me, so they got over there and started work.
 
 
  Zito was already over there fixing their fiber with about 10 guys
  and five trucks.
 
 
  I just spun back up there and as of this morning they (both
  companies) are still trying to figure out why the fiber is not 
working.

 
 
  Add to this the utility easement is on the side of a mountain and
  not right beside the road. These guys had entire teams and haven’t
  fixed 1,500ft of fiber in 12 hours plus had to wait nearly 7hrs to
  even access the local due to power lines down.
 
 
 >>>
 >>>
 >

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Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

[Mike Hammett]

Imagine if you sent every customer e-mails about every outage every time on 
your network. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Matt Hoppes"  
To: "Adam Moffett" , "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
 
Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 11:31:24 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber 

That's what everyone keeps saying but my fiber provider sends me 
e-mails every other week about pole fires taking out fiber, trees taking 
out fiber, wind taking out fiber, etc. 

On 9/6/19 12:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote: 
> When it's broken it can be expensive, but frankly it doesn't break that 
> often. 
> -Adam 
> 
> On 9/6/2019 12:29 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote: 
>> Except the contractor gets paid every time the fiber gets broken. 
>> 
>> On 9/6/19 12:18 PM, Adam Moffett wrote: 
>>> If you've only got 2 or 3 people *total* then you'd be relying on 
>>> contractors a lot and basically just being an owner/GC. Your capex 
>>> will be higher than with in-house labor, but console yourself with 
>>> the idea that the contractor only gets paid once, and you get paid 
>>> for 50 years. 
>>> 
>>> -Adam 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 9/6/2019 8:30 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote: 
 People ask why I don’t do fiber. The following story pretty much 
 sums it up. For those doing fiber, how do you do it with a 2 or 3 
 man team? We’d be run ragged. How do you stay sain? 
 
 
 
 
 
 Someone was logging up in Ogdensburg near Joe Hill and took a tree 
 down which took another tree down which took another tree down which 
 snapped off the side arms of the utility pole taking out the 
 powerlines which burned the fiber underneath it. 
 
 
 Last night about 11 o’clock I drove up there on my way home and 
 found the Crown Castle guys trying to figure out where the fiber 
 damage was, I talk to them for a moment and they were like yeah it’s 
 like 2500 feet away from here but we can’t figure out where the 
 fiber goes, I said follow me, so they got over there and started work. 
 
 
 Zito was already over there fixing their fiber with about 10 guys 
 and five trucks. 
 
 
 I just spun back up there and as of this morning they (both 
 companies) are still trying to figure out why the fiber is not working. 
 
 
 Add to this the utility easement is on the side of a mountain and 
 not right beside the road. These guys had entire teams and haven’t 
 fixed 1,500ft of fiber in 12 hours plus had to wait nearly 7hrs to 
 even access the local due to power lines down. 
 
 
>>> 
>>> 
> 

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Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

[Adam Moffett]

When it's broken it can be expensive, but frankly it doesn't break that 
often.

-Adam

On 9/6/2019 12:29 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Except the contractor gets paid every time the fiber gets broken.

On 9/6/19 12:18 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
If you've only got 2 or 3 people *total* then you'd be relying on 
contractors a lot and basically just being an owner/GC.  Your capex 
will be higher than with in-house labor, but console yourself with 
the idea that the contractor only gets paid once, and you get paid 
for 50 years.


-Adam


On 9/6/2019 8:30 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
People ask why I don’t do fiber. The following story pretty much 
sums it up. For those doing fiber, how do you do it with a 2 or 3 
man team?  We’d be run ragged.  How do you stay sain?






Someone was logging up in Ogdensburg near Joe Hill and took a tree 
down which took another tree down which took another tree down which 
snapped off the side arms of the utility pole taking out the 
powerlines which burned the fiber underneath it.



Last night about 11 o’clock I drove up there on my way home and 
found the Crown Castle guys trying to figure out where the fiber 
damage was, I talk to them for a moment and they were like yeah it’s 
like 2500 feet away from here but we can’t figure out where the 
fiber goes, I said follow me, so they got over there and started work.



Zito was already over there fixing their fiber with about 10 guys 
and five trucks.



I just spun back up there and as of this morning they (both 
companies) are still trying to figure out why the fiber is not working.



Add to this the utility easement is on the side of a mountain and 
not right beside the road. These guys had entire teams and haven’t 
fixed 1,500ft of fiber in 12 hours plus had to wait nearly 7hrs to 
even access the local due to power lines down.









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Re: [AFMUG] OT Afternoon project

[Adam Moffett]

Bummer.

On 9/6/2019 12:20 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

I discovered that there is no standard on the dimensions of the bucket.
*From:* Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Friday, September 6, 2019 10:13 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Afternoon project
I wonder if someone already makes a gauge stick for 5-gallon buckets.  
If not, then maybe there's a new product idea for you.  Sounds like 
your design work is half done already.


On 9/2/2019 10:13 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
Yes then measured with a tape. I want to get a casting of the inside 
so I can get some really accurate measurements so I can also do a 
calculated version.  Also I want to do one on a scale too.


Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 1, 2019, at 8:53 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:


So did you add 1 gallon at a time and mark graduations with a sharpie?

On 8/31/2019 6:00 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Needed to measure how much compressor oil was actually in a 
compressor.  So I made this.




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Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

[Matt Hoppes]

Except the contractor gets paid every time the fiber gets broken.

On 9/6/19 12:18 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
If you've only got 2 or 3 people *total* then you'd be relying on 
contractors a lot and basically just being an owner/GC.  Your capex will 
be higher than with in-house labor, but console yourself with the idea 
that the contractor only gets paid once, and you get paid for 50 years.


-Adam


On 9/6/2019 8:30 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
People ask why I don’t do fiber. The following story pretty much sums 
it up. For those doing fiber, how do you do it with a 2 or 3 man team? 
 We’d be run ragged.  How do you stay sain?






Someone was logging up in Ogdensburg near Joe Hill and took a tree 
down which took another tree down which took another tree down which 
snapped off the side arms of the utility pole taking out the 
powerlines which burned the fiber underneath it.



Last night about 11 o’clock I drove up there on my way home and found 
the Crown Castle guys trying to figure out where the fiber damage was, 
I talk to them for a moment and they were like yeah it’s like 2500 
feet away from here but we can’t figure out where the fiber goes, I 
said follow me, so they got over there and started work.



Zito was already over there fixing their fiber with about 10 guys and 
five trucks.



I just spun back up there and as of this morning they (both companies) 
are still trying to figure out why the fiber is not working.



Add to this the utility easement is on the side of a mountain and not 
right beside the road. These guys had entire teams and haven’t fixed 
1,500ft of fiber in 12 hours plus had to wait nearly 7hrs to even 
access the local due to power lines down.








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Re: [AFMUG] OT Afternoon project

[chuck]

I discovered that there is no standard on the dimensions of the bucket.  

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 10:13 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Afternoon project

I wonder if someone already makes a gauge stick for 5-gallon buckets.  If not, 
then maybe there's a new product idea for you.  Sounds like your design work is 
half done already.


On 9/2/2019 10:13 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  Yes then measured with a tape. I want to get a casting of the inside so I can 
get some really accurate measurements so I can also do a calculated version.  
Also I want to do one on a scale too.


  Sent from my iPhone

  On Sep 1, 2019, at 8:53 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:


So did you add 1 gallon at a time and mark graduations with a sharpie?


On 8/31/2019 6:00 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  Needed to measure how much compressor oil was actually in a compressor.  
So I made this.

   


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Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

[Adam Moffett]

If you've only got 2 or 3 people *total* then you'd be relying on 
contractors a lot and basically just being an owner/GC.  Your capex will 
be higher than with in-house labor, but console yourself with the idea 
that the contractor only gets paid once, and you get paid for 50 years.


-Adam


On 9/6/2019 8:30 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
People ask why I don’t do fiber. The following story pretty much sums 
it up. For those doing fiber, how do you do it with a 2 or 3 man team? 
 We’d be run ragged.  How do you stay sain?






Someone was logging up in Ogdensburg near Joe Hill and took a tree 
down which took another tree down which took another tree down which 
snapped off the side arms of the utility pole taking out the 
powerlines which burned the fiber underneath it.



Last night about 11 o’clock I drove up there on my way home and found 
the Crown Castle guys trying to figure out where the fiber damage was, 
I talk to them for a moment and they were like yeah it’s like 2500 
feet away from here but we can’t figure out where the fiber goes, I 
said follow me, so they got over there and started work.



Zito was already over there fixing their fiber with about 10 guys and 
five trucks.



I just spun back up there and as of this morning they (both companies) 
are still trying to figure out why the fiber is not working.



Add to this the utility easement is on the side of a mountain and not 
right beside the road. These guys had entire teams and haven’t fixed 
1,500ft of fiber in 12 hours plus had to wait nearly 7hrs to even 
access the local due to power lines down.





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Re: [AFMUG] OT Afternoon project

[Adam Moffett]

I wonder if someone already makes a gauge stick for 5-gallon buckets.  
If not, then maybe there's a new product idea for you. Sounds like your 
design work is half done already.


On 9/2/2019 10:13 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
Yes then measured with a tape. I want to get a casting of the inside 
so I can get some really accurate measurements so I can also do a 
calculated version.  Also I want to do one on a scale too.


Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 1, 2019, at 8:53 PM, Adam Moffett > wrote:



So did you add 1 gallon at a time and mark graduations with a sharpie?

On 8/31/2019 6:00 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Needed to measure how much compressor oil was actually in a 
compressor.  So I made this.




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Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

[Craig Schmaderer]

I will just keep on digging, and digging, fiber all the way...

On 9/6/19, 9:44 AM, "AF on behalf of Matt Hoppes"  wrote:

That's what I'm guessing as well... it's going to be a VERY large 
bill... three different companies involved so far.

On 9/6/19 10:11 AM, Carl Peterson wrote:
> And I'm guessing some logging company is paying for all those people 
> standing around trying to figure it out.
> 
> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 9:06 AM Chuck McCown  > wrote:
> 
> I don’t do aerial anymore, all underground.  But back in the day I
> built miles of aerial by my self.  It is doable.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Sep 6, 2019, at 6:30 AM, Matt Hoppes
>  > wrote:
> 
>> People ask why I don’t do fiber. The following story pretty much
>> sums it up. For those doing fiber, how do you do it with a 2 or 3
>> man team?  We’d be run ragged.  How do you stay sain?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Someone was logging up in Ogdensburg near Joe Hill and took a tree
>> down which took another tree down which took another tree down
>> which snapped off the side arms of the utility pole taking out the
>> powerlines which burned the fiber underneath it.
>>
>>
>> Last night about 11 o’clock I drove up there on my way home and
>> found the Crown Castle guys trying to figure out where the fiber
>> damage was, I talk to them for a moment and they were like yeah
>> it’s like 2500 feet away from here but we can’t figure out where
>> the fiber goes, I said follow me, so they got over there and
>> started work.
>>
>>
>> Zito was already over there fixing their fiber with about 10 guys
>> and five trucks.
>>
>>
>> I just spun back up there and as of this morning they (both
>> companies) are still trying to figure out why the fiber is not
>> working.
>>
>>
>> Add to this the utility easement is on the side of a mountain and
>> not right beside the road. These guys had entire teams and haven’t
>> fixed 1,500ft of fiber in 12 hours plus had to wait nearly 7hrs to
>> even access the local due to power lines down.
>>
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com 
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com 
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Carl Peterson
> 
> *PORT NETWORKS*
> 
> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
> 
> Baltimore, MD 21202
> 
> (410) 637-3707
> 
> 

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Re: [AFMUG] Mesh whole house wifi

[Craig Schmaderer]

Ryan, email me a price for the entire lot (include what numbers you have).  I 
will take them if it makes sense for me.   
cr...@skywaveconnect.comThanks

From: AF  on behalf of Ryan's Amplex 
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Date: Friday, September 6, 2019 at 6:31 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mesh whole house wifi

Calix reps hand out demos like candy to get you hooked then...

I’d like to sell the whole lot together.

On Sep 5, 2019, at 10:22 PM, Dan Spitler 
mailto:d...@common.net>> wrote:
TR-069 support isn’t actually enabled though. Have to bug them and after a lot 
of back-and-forth they’ll enable a beta release for specific MACs you give 
them. (side-note: I really wish the binaries were readily available)
Of course, I haven’t had time to play with it but think I will tonight.

How much for a Gigacenter and repeater? I’ve always wanted to try one, but 
didn’t want to bother  with the whole procurement process.



On Thursday, September 5, 2019, Ryan's Amplex 
mailto:rh...@amplex.net>> wrote:
Welp just figured out what I’m doing tonight.  So much for mowing the lawn.

On Sep 5, 2019, at 4:58 PM, Clint Wiley 
mailto:cl...@hagerstownfiber.com>> wrote:
I thought the latest Amplifi firmware supported TR-069?

https://community.amplifi.com/topic/1862/firmware-v3-0-0


Thanks,

Clint Wiley
Hagerstown Fiber Internet

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> on behalf of 
Ryan Hill mailto:rh...@amplex.net>>
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Date: Thursday, September 5, 2019 at 4:39 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mesh whole house wifi

I went through exactly the list of options that you mentioned David.  My 
favorite was the Amplifi, it worked flawlessly but it is expensive, and didn’t 
have access to the unifi controller which stunk.  They answer to that has been 
the Dream Machine which is better but still requires it’s own Unifi Controller 
which stinks for what were looking for.  We explored Calix extensively and even 
bought 25 Gigacenters and the Mesh units(Let me know if someone wants them?) 
but we too didn’t want to undertake using their cloud since we own our own ACS. 
 The onboarding of the Calix ourselves into our ACS wasn’t something we have 
time to do so we scrapped Calix.
This leaves Cambium or Ubnt
We’ve been selling managed router services with the r201s for a couple years 
but just started testing now the  r201s meshed with themselves and or the e430H 
wall units is working ok, or Unifi devices which we are deploying rapidly for 
business class applications and managing with the unifi controller.





   
 Ryan Hill
   Operations Manager
 Amplex Internet
  (419)837-5015 Ext 1047
  www.amplex.net






On Sep 5, 2019, at 4:13 PM, Robert Andrews 
mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:

We had customers try orbi and found a couple of problems.   1st was that you 
could not set the channel that it used for mesh.   There was a place to in the 
config but it didn't actually change anything ( it lied ) and if it chose a 
channel we were delivering on, all hell broke loose. Second was that we had a 
customer pick theirs up from Costco when they were selling them and when the 
customer went to upgrade the firmware ( hopefully to fix the mesh channel thing 
) there was no firmware available for the mesh unit they had purchased.   They 
looked, we drove out there and looked,   The unit number was nowhere in the 
orbi support firmwares and could not be upgraded.

Disqualified because of those two things..



On 09/05/2019 11:47 AM, David Coudron wrote:
We looked at a bunch of different options and decided to provide Netgear Orbi 
Mesh.   What we looked at was:
Ubiquiti Amplifi – worked great in our tests, but there is no remote management 
option
Calix Gigacenter – also worked great, but really need to commit to their cloud 
management.  That was too big a commitment for just the few meshes we do
TP Link, Google and a bunch of others – all would likely work, but most didn’t 
have remote management and/or a dedicated backhaul channel.
Mikrotik – Not really in the same category, but wasn’t a serious consideration 
as it was way to complicated and under performing
Netgear checked the boxes that were important to us:
Readily available
Remotely manageable
Dedicated backhaul channel
Reasonably priced
Passed our simple testing
Regards,
David Coudron
*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf 
Of *Clint Wiley
*Sent:* Thursday, September 5, 2019 1:36 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Mesh whole house wifi
Hi all,
For those of you offering ‘whole house’ wifi services, what are you deploying? 
We know that the one sore point for our users is wifi coverage. Our ONT vendor 
(zhone) has been promising a solution for almost a year now but it still isn’t 
ready 

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

[Matt Hoppes]

That's what I'm guessing as well... it's going to be a VERY large 
bill... three different companies involved so far.


On 9/6/19 10:11 AM, Carl Peterson wrote:
And I'm guessing some logging company is paying for all those people 
standing around trying to figure it out.


On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 9:06 AM Chuck McCown > wrote:


I don’t do aerial anymore, all underground.  But back in the day I
built miles of aerial by my self.  It is doable.

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 6, 2019, at 6:30 AM, Matt Hoppes
mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:


People ask why I don’t do fiber. The following story pretty much
sums it up. For those doing fiber, how do you do it with a 2 or 3
man team?  We’d be run ragged.  How do you stay sain?





Someone was logging up in Ogdensburg near Joe Hill and took a tree
down which took another tree down which took another tree down
which snapped off the side arms of the utility pole taking out the
powerlines which burned the fiber underneath it.


Last night about 11 o’clock I drove up there on my way home and
found the Crown Castle guys trying to figure out where the fiber
damage was, I talk to them for a moment and they were like yeah
it’s like 2500 feet away from here but we can’t figure out where
the fiber goes, I said follow me, so they got over there and
started work.


Zito was already over there fixing their fiber with about 10 guys
and five trucks.


I just spun back up there and as of this morning they (both
companies) are still trying to figure out why the fiber is not
working.


Add to this the utility easement is on the side of a mountain and
not right beside the road. These guys had entire teams and haven’t
fixed 1,500ft of fiber in 12 hours plus had to wait nearly 7hrs to
even access the local due to power lines down.

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*PORT NETWORKS*

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707




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Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

[Carl Peterson]

And I'm guessing some logging company is paying for all those people
standing around trying to figure it out.

On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 9:06 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> I don’t do aerial anymore, all underground.  But back in the day I built
> miles of aerial by my self.  It is doable.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 6, 2019, at 6:30 AM, Matt Hoppes 
> wrote:
>
> People ask why I don’t do fiber. The following story pretty much sums it
> up. For those doing fiber, how do you do it with a 2 or 3 man team?  We’d
> be run ragged.  How do you stay sain?
>
>
>
>
>
> Someone was logging up in Ogdensburg near Joe Hill and took a tree down
> which took another tree down which took another tree down which snapped off
> the side arms of the utility pole taking out the powerlines which burned
> the fiber underneath it.
>
>
> Last night about 11 o’clock I drove up there on my way home and found the
> Crown Castle guys trying to figure out where the fiber damage was, I talk
> to them for a moment and they were like yeah it’s like 2500 feet away from
> here but we can’t figure out where the fiber goes, I said follow me, so
> they got over there and started work.
>
>
> Zito was already over there fixing their fiber with about 10 guys and five
> trucks.
>
>
> I just spun back up there and as of this morning they (both companies) are
> still trying to figure out why the fiber is not working.
>
>
> Add to this the utility easement is on the side of a mountain and not
> right beside the road. These guys had entire teams and haven’t fixed
> 1,500ft of fiber in 12 hours plus had to wait nearly 7hrs to even access
> the local due to power lines down.
>
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>
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>


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*PORT NETWORKS*

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707
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Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

[Chuck McCown]

I don’t do aerial anymore, all underground.  But back in the day I built miles 
of aerial by my self.  It is doable.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 6, 2019, at 6:30 AM, Matt Hoppes  
> wrote:
> 
> People ask why I don’t do fiber. The following story pretty much sums it up. 
> For those doing fiber, how do you do it with a 2 or 3 man team?  We’d be run 
> ragged.  How do you stay sain?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Someone was logging up in Ogdensburg near Joe Hill and took a tree down which 
> took another tree down which took another tree down which snapped off the 
> side arms of the utility pole taking out the powerlines which burned the 
> fiber underneath it.
> 
> Last night about 11 o’clock I drove up there on my way home and found the 
> Crown Castle guys trying to figure out where the fiber damage was, I talk to 
> them for a moment and they were like yeah it’s like 2500 feet away from here 
> but we can’t figure out where the fiber goes, I said follow me, so they got 
> over there and started work.   
> 
> Zito was already over there fixing their fiber with about 10 guys and five 
> trucks. 
> 
> I just spun back up there and as of this morning they (both companies) are 
> still trying to figure out why the fiber is not working.
> 
> Add to this the utility easement is on the side of a mountain and not right 
> beside the road. These guys had entire teams and haven’t fixed 1,500ft of 
> fiber in 12 hours plus had to wait nearly 7hrs to even access the local due 
> to power lines down. 
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Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

[Colin Stanners]

That's a very problematic situation, but doing aerial / near-electrical
fiber has much bigger risks than (ducted, non-pedastal, well-CBYD-listed)
underground; in this case going aerial was their choice / risk.

A 2 or 3 man team can do lots of underground work, but a few more people is
very helpful to make things faster / for bigger operations.


On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 7:31 AM Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> People ask why I don’t do fiber. The following story pretty much sums it
> up. For those doing fiber, how do you do it with a 2 or 3 man team?  We’d
> be run ragged.  How do you stay sain?
>
>
>
>
>
> Someone was logging up in Ogdensburg near Joe Hill and took a tree down
> which took another tree down which took another tree down which snapped off
> the side arms of the utility pole taking out the powerlines which burned
> the fiber underneath it.
>
>
> Last night about 11 o’clock I drove up there on my way home and found the
> Crown Castle guys trying to figure out where the fiber damage was, I talk
> to them for a moment and they were like yeah it’s like 2500 feet away from
> here but we can’t figure out where the fiber goes, I said follow me, so
> they got over there and started work.
>
>
> Zito was already over there fixing their fiber with about 10 guys and five
> trucks.
>
>
> I just spun back up there and as of this morning they (both companies) are
> still trying to figure out why the fiber is not working.
>
>
> Add to this the utility easement is on the side of a mountain and not
> right beside the road. These guys had entire teams and haven’t fixed
> 1,500ft of fiber in 12 hours plus had to wait nearly 7hrs to even access
> the local due to power lines down.
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Re: [AFMUG] Fiber

[Mark Radabaugh]

It’s no worse than dealing with lightning strikes on tower sites.   Just a 
different sort of problem, just happens less often.

You assume we are sane in the first place.   Or perhaps we do make the sign of 
the cross a lot, it probably can’t hurt.   Perhaps that’s what you meant.

Mark

> On Sep 6, 2019, at 8:30 AM, Matt Hoppes  
> wrote:
> 
> People ask why I don’t do fiber. The following story pretty much sums it up. 
> For those doing fiber, how do you do it with a 2 or 3 man team?  We’d be run 
> ragged.  How do you stay sain?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Someone was logging up in Ogdensburg near Joe Hill and took a tree down which 
> took another tree down which took another tree down which snapped off the 
> side arms of the utility pole taking out the powerlines which burned the 
> fiber underneath it.
> 
> Last night about 11 o’clock I drove up there on my way home and found the 
> Crown Castle guys trying to figure out where the fiber damage was, I talk to 
> them for a moment and they were like yeah it’s like 2500 feet away from here 
> but we can’t figure out where the fiber goes, I said follow me, so they got 
> over there and started work.   
> 
> Zito was already over there fixing their fiber with about 10 guys and five 
> trucks. 
> 
> I just spun back up there and as of this morning they (both companies) are 
> still trying to figure out why the fiber is not working.
> 
> Add to this the utility easement is on the side of a mountain and not right 
> beside the road. These guys had entire teams and haven’t fixed 1,500ft of 
> fiber in 12 hours plus had to wait nearly 7hrs to even access the local due 
> to power lines down. 
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Re: [AFMUG] Mesh whole house wifi

[dave via AF]

Are we doing this again LOL

I do all cambium so it was easy for us including using CNmaestro for 
total MSP access.
I have a shop here locally that we hand over the MSP keys for each site 
and they get residual for each one.

Too easy and got a Tshirt for it :)


On 9/5/19 1:36 PM, Clint Wiley wrote:


Hi all,

For those of you offering ‘whole house’ wifi services, what are you 
deploying? We know that the one sore point for our users is wifi 
coverage. Our ONT vendor (zhone) has been promising a solution for 
almost a year now but it still isn’t ready and, quite frankly, lacks 
the end user management features others might have. We’d like remote 
management so we can assist in setting SSID’s and changing passwords, et.


Thanks,

Clint




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[AFMUG] Fiber

[Matt Hoppes]

People ask why I don’t do fiber. The following story pretty much sums it up. 
For those doing fiber, how do you do it with a 2 or 3 man team?  We’d be run 
ragged.  How do you stay sain?





Someone was logging up in Ogdensburg near Joe Hill and took a tree down which 
took another tree down which took another tree down which snapped off the side 
arms of the utility pole taking out the powerlines which burned the fiber 
underneath it.

Last night about 11 o’clock I drove up there on my way home and found the Crown 
Castle guys trying to figure out where the fiber damage was, I talk to them for 
a moment and they were like yeah it’s like 2500 feet away from here but we 
can’t figure out where the fiber goes, I said follow me, so they got over there 
and started work.   

Zito was already over there fixing their fiber with about 10 guys and five 
trucks. 

I just spun back up there and as of this morning they (both companies) are 
still trying to figure out why the fiber is not working.

Add to this the utility easement is on the side of a mountain and not right 
beside the road. These guys had entire teams and haven’t fixed 1,500ft of fiber 
in 12 hours plus had to wait nearly 7hrs to even access the local due to power 
lines down. -- 
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Re: [AFMUG] Mesh whole house wifi

[Ryan's Amplex]

Calix reps hand out demos like candy to get you hooked then...

I’d like to sell the whole lot together.

> On Sep 5, 2019, at 10:22 PM, Dan Spitler  wrote:
> 
> TR-069 support isn’t actually enabled though. Have to bug them and after a 
> lot of back-and-forth they’ll enable a beta release for specific MACs you 
> give them. (side-note: I really wish the binaries were readily available)
> Of course, I haven’t had time to play with it but think I will tonight.
> 
> How much for a Gigacenter and repeater? I’ve always wanted to try one, but 
> didn’t want to bother  with the whole procurement process.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Thursday, September 5, 2019, Ryan's Amplex  wrote:
>> Welp just figured out what I’m doing tonight.  So much for mowing the lawn. 
>> 
>>> On Sep 5, 2019, at 4:58 PM, Clint Wiley  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I thought the latest Amplifi firmware supported TR-069?
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> https://community.amplifi.com/topic/1862/firmware-v3-0-0
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Clint Wiley
>>> 
>>> Hagerstown Fiber Internet
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> From: AF  on behalf of Ryan Hill 
>>> Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> Date: Thursday, September 5, 2019 at 4:39 PM
>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mesh whole house wifi
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> I went through exactly the list of options that you mentioned David.  My 
>>> favorite was the Amplifi, it worked flawlessly but it is expensive, and 
>>> didn’t have access to the unifi controller which stunk.  They answer to 
>>> that has been the Dream Machine which is better but still requires it’s own 
>>> Unifi Controller which stinks for what were looking for.  We explored Calix 
>>> extensively and even bought 25 Gigacenters and the Mesh units(Let me know 
>>> if someone wants them?) but we too didn’t want to undertake using their 
>>> cloud since we own our own ACS.  The onboarding of the Calix ourselves into 
>>> our ACS wasn’t something we have time to do so we scrapped Calix.  
>>> 
>>> This leaves Cambium or Ubnt
>>> 
>>> We’ve been selling managed router services with the r201s for a couple 
>>> years but just started testing now the  r201s meshed with themselves and or 
>>> the e430H wall units is working ok, or Unifi devices which we are deploying 
>>> rapidly for business class applications and managing with the unifi 
>>> controller. 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>>   
>>> 
>>>  Ryan Hill 
>>> 
>>>Operations Manager
>>> 
>>>  Amplex Internet
>>> 
>>>   (419)837-5015 Ext 1047 
>>> 
>>>   www.amplex.net
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sep 5, 2019, at 4:13 PM, Robert Andrews  wrote:
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> We had customers try orbi and found a couple of problems.   1st was that 
>>> you could not set the channel that it used for mesh.   There was a place to 
>>> in the config but it didn't actually change anything ( it lied ) and if it 
>>> chose a channel we were delivering on, all hell broke loose. Second was 
>>> that we had a customer pick theirs up from Costco when they were selling 
>>> them and when the customer went to upgrade the firmware ( hopefully to fix 
>>> the mesh channel thing ) there was no firmware available for the mesh unit 
>>> they had purchased.   They looked, we drove out there and looked,   The 
>>> unit number was nowhere in the orbi support firmwares and could not be 
>>> upgraded.
>>> 
>>> Disqualified because of those two things..
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 09/05/2019 11:47 AM, David Coudron wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> We looked at a bunch of different options and decided to provide Netgear 
>>> Orbi Mesh.   What we looked at was:
>>> Ubiquiti Amplifi – worked great in our tests, but there is no remote 
>>> management option
>>> Calix Gigacenter – also worked great, but really need to commit to their 
>>> cloud management.  That was too big a commitment for just the few meshes we 
>>> do
>>> TP Link, Google and a bunch of others – all would likely work, but most 
>>> didn’t have remote management and/or a dedicated backhaul channel.
>>> Mikrotik – Not really in the same category, but wasn’t a serious 
>>> consideration as it was way to complicated and under performing
>>> Netgear checked the boxes that were important to us:
>>> Readily available
>>> Remotely manageable
>>> Dedicated backhaul channel
>>> Reasonably priced
>>> Passed our simple testing
>>> Regards,
>>> David Coudron
>>> *From:*AF  *On Behalf Of *Clint Wiley
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 5, 2019 1:36 PM
>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Mesh whole house wifi
>>> Hi all,
>>> For those of you offering ‘whole house’ wifi services, what are you 
>>> deploying? We know that the one sore point for our users is wifi coverage. 
>>> Our ONT vendor (zhone) has been promising a solution for almost a year now 
>>> but it still isn’t ready and, quite frankly, lacks the end user