[AFMUG] Industrial or Outdoor Ethernet switches

[Lincs_Chel]

Hi;

Working on a project that requires the use of a couple 4-port (minimum) 
switches to be installed outdoors.  Kindly note that these won't be in 
any snow and/or ice cold environment.  Think Florida and more 
specifically South Florida type weather conditions.


Some may have an opportunity to be installed inside at the bottom of the 
lamp post.   The cavities inside (at the bottom) are large enough to 
hold a basic 4-8 port switch.   Some may need to be mounted in a NEMA4 
enclosure.


Additional Options:-

    1) both PoE and non-POE would be great.
    2) SNMP or management
    3) AC or POE powered.
    4) Don't need fibre.  This will only be a CAT5/CAT6 copper based 
solution.


In one of the runs, I will need to uplink or connect at least three (3) 
in series.  So, if it is powered via POE, then it will also need to 
provide POE for the next switch in series.


Any suggestions.

Regards.

LH


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] RF Goggles

[Colin Stanners]

I have a pretty good idea to create some, but it's a massive project and I
constantly lack energy and time...

On Tue, Nov 5, 2019, 9:48 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Still not a thing?
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

[AFMUG] RF Goggles

[Ken Hohhof]

Still not a thing?

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

[Bill Prince]

  
  
There are a couple ways to look at this. If your customers are
  all smart and sophisticated, they will quiesce their internal
  network before they run a speed test.
However, if they're rubes, Billy will be in his bedroom
  downloading Fortnight, while Suzie is in her bedroom watching the
  latest Netflix/Youtube/Hulu sensation, and grandma and mother will
  also be watching some videos whereever they are hanging out.
Dad will run his speedtest, and it will show  minus , and he will
  complain to the ISP that he's not getting .
Rinse and repeat.

bp



On 11/5/2019 2:38 PM, Josh Luthman
  wrote:


  True, but if your upstream is full then you have other problems...which is
kind of what started the whole constant speedtest craze.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 3:17 PM  wrote:


  
If you host a local server, then they will get the highest speeds possible
without you being penalized for network problems outside your own system.

*From:* Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 5, 2019 9:03 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

How so?  I didn't notice any difference from when our server was taken
offline (because I didn't have a 10G pipe).

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 2:42 PM  wrote:



  If you host a speedtest server, most of this goes away.

*From:* Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 5, 2019 6:07 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net


Sounds like an IT guy justifying his paycheck.  Why do you need me?  I
call our ISP every morning and bitch about the speed.  Right after the
rooster crows to make the sun come up.  Without me and the rooster, the
Internet would be slow and the sun wouldn’t rise.



Either that or an IT guy who spends all day with people bitching at him,
so his only joy is bitching at you.



I am somehow reminded of yesterday on WGN radio they were talking about
auto responders and people who don’t realize they are arguing with an auto
responder, and how people will call WGN to bitch about something and the
auto responder would thank them for liking WGN and offer to send them an
autographed photo.





*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Nate Burke
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 5, 2019 10:02 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net



It is tempting.  This is also the IT Guy who told me "I can definitely
tell how much faster my LAN is since I've changed from Cat5e to Cat6
cables."

On 11/5/2019 9:47 AM, Craig Schmaderer wrote:

Nate, you should route his call into a special phone tree that he can not
escape out of.  lol



*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Nate Burke
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 5, 2019 9:43 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net



I think it would be a good tool to have in the toolbox, but maybe
selectively applied.

We have one business customer (Broadband), every morning the "IT guy"
will run a speedtest, and call in if it's not the 40mb he expects.  He
don't bother to look at any of his other network traffic, any downloads
that are going on, if there are actually any problems.  He only cares what
speedtest shows, and if his screen doesn't show 40mb, then he's calling.
Every time, !EVERY TIME!, it's because his network traffic is using the
rest of the connection, which we explain to him EVERY TIME, but this has
been his operating procedure for the last 3 years.  "Hey guys, speeds are
slow this morning, you need to check it and fix it."

On 11/5/2019 9:30 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

If you sell by speed tiers, I think speedtest.net can actually be your
friend, and you don’t want to doctor the results.  If the guy on a 10 Mbps
plan is complaining his Internet is slow because he can’t watch 5 HD
streams simultaneously, it helps to show him “you’re getting what you’re
paying for”.  Then you can maybe upsell him to a higher speed tier.



If he’s downloading a 150 GB Xbox game, your tech support is going to
have to educate him about restricting the hours that game consoles can do
downloads.  Making speedtest.net results look better isn’t going to
avoid that, in fact it may make that more difficult.  The effort might be
better spent finding a way to deprioritize software downloads, so people
can watch video or pay games while new games are downloading.



If you sell best effort “up to” speeds, the answer may be different.





*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 5, 2019 8:46 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net



If I'm being honest, it's partly a failure on the sa

Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

[Josh Luthman]

True, but if your upstream is full then you have other problems...which is
kind of what started the whole constant speedtest craze.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 3:17 PM  wrote:

> If you host a local server, then they will get the highest speeds possible
> without you being penalized for network problems outside your own system.
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 5, 2019 9:03 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net
>
> How so?  I didn't notice any difference from when our server was taken
> offline (because I didn't have a 10G pipe).
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 2:42 PM  wrote:
>
>> If you host a speedtest server, most of this goes away.
>>
>> *From:* Ken Hohhof
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 5, 2019 6:07 PM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net
>>
>>
>> Sounds like an IT guy justifying his paycheck.  Why do you need me?  I
>> call our ISP every morning and bitch about the speed.  Right after the
>> rooster crows to make the sun come up.  Without me and the rooster, the
>> Internet would be slow and the sun wouldn’t rise.
>>
>>
>>
>> Either that or an IT guy who spends all day with people bitching at him,
>> so his only joy is bitching at you.
>>
>>
>>
>> I am somehow reminded of yesterday on WGN radio they were talking about
>> auto responders and people who don’t realize they are arguing with an auto
>> responder, and how people will call WGN to bitch about something and the
>> auto responder would thank them for liking WGN and offer to send them an
>> autographed photo.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Nate Burke
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 5, 2019 10:02 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net
>>
>>
>>
>> It is tempting.  This is also the IT Guy who told me "I can definitely
>> tell how much faster my LAN is since I've changed from Cat5e to Cat6
>> cables."
>>
>> On 11/5/2019 9:47 AM, Craig Schmaderer wrote:
>>
>> Nate, you should route his call into a special phone tree that he can not
>> escape out of.  lol
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Nate Burke
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 5, 2019 9:43 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net
>>
>>
>>
>> I think it would be a good tool to have in the toolbox, but maybe
>> selectively applied.
>>
>> We have one business customer (Broadband), every morning the "IT guy"
>> will run a speedtest, and call in if it's not the 40mb he expects.  He
>> don't bother to look at any of his other network traffic, any downloads
>> that are going on, if there are actually any problems.  He only cares what
>> speedtest shows, and if his screen doesn't show 40mb, then he's calling.
>> Every time, !EVERY TIME!, it's because his network traffic is using the
>> rest of the connection, which we explain to him EVERY TIME, but this has
>> been his operating procedure for the last 3 years.  "Hey guys, speeds are
>> slow this morning, you need to check it and fix it."
>>
>> On 11/5/2019 9:30 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>> If you sell by speed tiers, I think speedtest.net can actually be your
>> friend, and you don’t want to doctor the results.  If the guy on a 10 Mbps
>> plan is complaining his Internet is slow because he can’t watch 5 HD
>> streams simultaneously, it helps to show him “you’re getting what you’re
>> paying for”.  Then you can maybe upsell him to a higher speed tier.
>>
>>
>>
>> If he’s downloading a 150 GB Xbox game, your tech support is going to
>> have to educate him about restricting the hours that game consoles can do
>> downloads.  Making speedtest.net results look better isn’t going to
>> avoid that, in fact it may make that more difficult.  The effort might be
>> better spent finding a way to deprioritize software downloads, so people
>> can watch video or pay games while new games are downloading.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you sell best effort “up to” speeds, the answer may be different.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 5, 2019 8:46 AM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net
>>
>>
>>
>> If I'm being honest, it's partly a failure on the sales end to manage
>> expectations on wireless ("up to 50mbps" etc), and partly a failure of tech
>> support to manage the conversation.  IMO they need to not let the customer
>> focus on a speed test result and instead prompt them to talk about what
>> their actual problems are. Whether the speed test says 10 meg or 50 meg has
>> no bearing on the fact that you suck of Call of Duty or that your VPN to
>> the office doe

Re: [AFMUG] cnHeat Promotion

[Dan Spitler]

Curious if anyone knows where they get their data from? Based on their
vague map, I'd say public LIDAR sources which can be pretty old these days.

On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 11:58 AM  wrote:

> Would this be the
>
> 450H
>
> 450L
>
> 450C
>
> Or the  450R ?
>
> *From:* Ray Savich via AF
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 5, 2019 8:44 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Cc:* Ray Savich
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] cnHeat Promotion
>
>
> For the first 100 WISPs in the USA: Purchase four 450m, 450i AP, or ePMP
> 3000 now through December 20 and receive a 1year subscription to cnHeat
> LOCATE and 500 cnHeat IDENTIFY addresses for free.
> https://community.cambiumnetworks.com/t5/cnHeat/cnHeat-IDENTIFY-Promotion-Free-One-Year-Subscription-Free-500/td-p/110476
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: cnHeat Promotion

[Dan Sullivan via AF]

Hi Matt,

This is per site.  You can put as many APs as you would like on a site.

Dan

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 1:56 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] cnHeat Promotion

1 year subscription for how many APs?

On 11/5/19 2:44 PM, Ray Savich via AF wrote:
> For the first 100 WISPs in the USA: Purchase four 450m, 450i AP, or 
> ePMP
> 3000 now through December 20 and receive a 1year subscription to 
> cnHeat LOCATE and 500 cnHeat IDENTIFY addresses for free.
> https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcomm
> unity.cambiumnetworks.com%2Ft5%2FcnHeat%2FcnHeat-IDENTIFY-Promotion-Fr
> ee-One-Year-Subscription-Free-500%2Ftd-p%2F110476&data=02%7C01%7Cd
> aniel.sullivan%40cambiumnetworks.com%7C04430d8d21624c99f23f08d7622a44a
> 7%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C0%7C1%7C637085806012242352&
> sdata=O%2By%2BGRTIioKViLjUYgG6wN17%2Bruz0LUZHLo4rKIGYnQ%3D&reserve
> d=0
> 
> 
> 

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faf.afmug.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Faf_af.afmug.com&data=02%7C01%7Cdaniel.sullivan%40cambiumnetworks.com%7C04430d8d21624c99f23f08d7622a44a7%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C0%7C1%7C637085806012242352&sdata=tQNxsly39FSIaXXFHwqahbivja%2FNmOCm%2FDC9EfpekRs%3D&reserved=0

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

[Mike Hammett]

I'm busy. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Ken Hohhof"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 2:28:14 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net 



I’m waiting for a certain person to chime in that you’re responsible for the 
entire Internet, you need better upstreams, you need to take full routes, you 
need to peer at an IXP, you need IPv6, if the problem is upstream of you then 
you need to fix that. 



From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com 
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 2:17 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net 




If you host a local server, then they will get the highest speeds possible 
without you being penalized for network problems outside your own system. 






From: Josh Luthman 

Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 9:03 PM 

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net 




How so? I didn't notice any difference from when our server was taken offline 
(because I didn't have a 10G pipe). 






Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 






On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 2:42 PM < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






If you host a speedtest server, most of this goes away. 






From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 6:07 PM 

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net 




Sounds like an IT guy justifying his paycheck. Why do you need me? I call our 
ISP every morning and bitch about the speed. Right after the rooster crows to 
make the sun come up. Without me and the rooster, the Internet would be slow 
and the sun wouldn’t rise. 

Either that or an IT guy who spends all day with people bitching at him, so his 
only joy is bitching at you. 

I am somehow reminded of yesterday on WGN radio they were talking about auto 
responders and people who don’t realize they are arguing with an auto 
responder, and how people will call WGN to bitch about something and the auto 
responder would thank them for liking WGN and offer to send them an autographed 
photo. 




From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Nate Burke 
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 10:02 AM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net 

It is tempting. This is also the IT Guy who told me "I can definitely tell how 
much faster my LAN is since I've changed from Cat5e to Cat6 cables." 

On 11/5/2019 9:47 AM, Craig Schmaderer wrote: 


Nate, you should route his call into a special phone tree that he can not 
escape out of. lol 



From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Nate Burke 
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 9:43 AM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net 

I think it would be a good tool to have in the toolbox, but maybe selectively 
applied. 

We have one business customer (Broadband), every morning the "IT guy" will run 
a speedtest, and call in if it's not the 40mb he expects. He don't bother to 
look at any of his other network traffic, any downloads that are going on, if 
there are actually any problems. He only cares what speedtest shows, and if his 
screen doesn't show 40mb, then he's calling. Every time, !EVERY TIME!, it's 
because his network traffic is using the rest of the connection, which we 
explain to him EVERY TIME, but this has been his operating procedure for the 
last 3 years. "Hey guys, speeds are slow this morning, you need to check it and 
fix it." 

On 11/5/2019 9:30 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: 


If you sell by speed tiers, I think speedtest.net can actually be your friend, 
and you don’t want to doctor the results. If the guy on a 10 Mbps plan is 
complaining his Internet is slow because he can’t watch 5 HD streams 
simultaneously, it helps to show him “you’re getting what you’re paying for”. 
Then you can maybe upsell him to a higher speed tier. 

If he’s downloading a 150 GB Xbox game, your tech support is going to have to 
educate him about restricting the hours that game consoles can do downloads. 
Making speedtest.net results look better isn’t going to avoid that, in fact it 
may make that more difficult. The effort might be better spent finding a way to 
deprioritize software downloads, so people can watch video or pay games while 
new games are downloading. 

If you sell best effort “up to” speeds, the answer may be different. 




From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Adam Moffett 
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 8:46 AM 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net 

If I'm being honest, it's partly a failure on the sales end to manage 
expectations on wireless ("up to 50mbps" etc), and partly a failure of tech 
support to manage the conversation. IMO they need to 

Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

[Ken Hohhof]

I’m waiting for a certain person to chime in that you’re responsible for the 
entire Internet, you need better upstreams, you need to take full routes, you 
need to peer at an IXP, you need IPv6, if the problem is upstream of you then 
you need to fix that.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 2:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

 

If you host a local server, then they will get the highest speeds possible 
without you being penalized for network problems outside your own system.

 

From: Josh Luthman 

Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 9:03 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

 

How so?  I didn't notice any difference from when our server was taken offline 
(because I didn't have a 10G pipe).


 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

 

On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 2:42 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > 
wrote:

If you host a speedtest server, most of this goes away.

 

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 6:07 PM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

 

Sounds like an IT guy justifying his paycheck.  Why do you need me?  I call our 
ISP every morning and bitch about the speed.  Right after the rooster crows to 
make the sun come up.  Without me and the rooster, the Internet would be slow 
and the sun wouldn’t rise.

 

Either that or an IT guy who spends all day with people bitching at him, so his 
only joy is bitching at you.

 

I am somehow reminded of yesterday on WGN radio they were talking about auto 
responders and people who don’t realize they are arguing with an auto 
responder, and how people will call WGN to bitch about something and the auto 
responder would thank them for liking WGN and offer to send them an autographed 
photo.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Nate Burke
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 10:02 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

 

It is tempting.  This is also the IT Guy who told me "I can definitely tell how 
much faster my LAN is since I've changed from Cat5e to Cat6 cables."  

On 11/5/2019 9:47 AM, Craig Schmaderer wrote:

Nate, you should route his call into a special phone tree that he can not 
escape out of.  lol

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 9:43 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

 

I think it would be a good tool to have in the toolbox, but maybe selectively 
applied.  

We have one business customer (Broadband), every morning the "IT guy" will run 
a speedtest, and call in if it's not the 40mb he expects.  He don't bother to 
look at any of his other network traffic, any downloads that are going on, if 
there are actually any problems.  He only cares what speedtest shows, and if 
his screen doesn't show 40mb, then he's calling.  Every time, !EVERY TIME!, 
it's because his network traffic is using the rest of the connection, which we 
explain to him EVERY TIME, but this has been his operating procedure for the 
last 3 years.  "Hey guys, speeds are slow this morning, you need to check it 
and fix it."

On 11/5/2019 9:30 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

If you sell by speed tiers, I think speedtest.net   can 
actually be your friend, and you don’t want to doctor the results.  If the guy 
on a 10 Mbps plan is complaining his Internet is slow because he can’t watch 5 
HD streams simultaneously, it helps to show him “you’re getting what you’re 
paying for”.  Then you can maybe upsell him to a higher speed tier.

 

If he’s downloading a 150 GB Xbox game, your tech support is going to have to 
educate him about restricting the hours that game consoles can do downloads.  
Making speedtest.net   results look better isn’t going to 
avoid that, in fact it may make that more difficult.  The effort might be 
better spent finding a way to deprioritize software downloads, so people can 
watch video or pay games while new games are downloading.

 

If you sell best effort “up to” speeds, the answer may be different.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 8:46 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

 

If I'm being honest, it's partly a failure on the sales end to manage 
expectations on wireless ("up to 50mbps" etc), and partly a failure of tech 
support to manage the conversation.  IMO they need to not let the customer 
focus on a speed test result and instead prompt them to talk about what their 
actual problems are. Whether the speed test says 10 meg or 50 meg has no 
bearing on the fact that you suck of Call of

Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

[chuck]

If you host a local server, then they will get the highest speeds possible 
without you being penalized for network problems outside your own system.

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 9:03 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

How so?  I didn't notice any difference from when our server was taken offline 
(because I didn't have a 10G pipe).


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 2:42 PM  wrote:

  If you host a speedtest server, most of this goes away.

  From: Ken Hohhof 
  Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 6:07 PM
  To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

  Sounds like an IT guy justifying his paycheck.  Why do you need me?  I call 
our ISP every morning and bitch about the speed.  Right after the rooster crows 
to make the sun come up.  Without me and the rooster, the Internet would be 
slow and the sun wouldn’t rise.



  Either that or an IT guy who spends all day with people bitching at him, so 
his only joy is bitching at you.



  I am somehow reminded of yesterday on WGN radio they were talking about auto 
responders and people who don’t realize they are arguing with an auto 
responder, and how people will call WGN to bitch about something and the auto 
responder would thank them for liking WGN and offer to send them an autographed 
photo.





  From: AF  On Behalf Of Nate Burke
  Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 10:02 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net



  It is tempting.  This is also the IT Guy who told me "I can definitely tell 
how much faster my LAN is since I've changed from Cat5e to Cat6 cables."  

  On 11/5/2019 9:47 AM, Craig Schmaderer wrote:

Nate, you should route his call into a special phone tree that he can not 
escape out of.  lol



From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 9:43 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net



I think it would be a good tool to have in the toolbox, but maybe 
selectively applied.  

We have one business customer (Broadband), every morning the "IT guy" will 
run a speedtest, and call in if it's not the 40mb he expects.  He don't bother 
to look at any of his other network traffic, any downloads that are going on, 
if there are actually any problems.  He only cares what speedtest shows, and if 
his screen doesn't show 40mb, then he's calling.  Every time, !EVERY TIME!, 
it's because his network traffic is using the rest of the connection, which we 
explain to him EVERY TIME, but this has been his operating procedure for the 
last 3 years.  "Hey guys, speeds are slow this morning, you need to check it 
and fix it."

On 11/5/2019 9:30 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

  If you sell by speed tiers, I think speedtest.net can actually be your 
friend, and you don’t want to doctor the results.  If the guy on a 10 Mbps plan 
is complaining his Internet is slow because he can’t watch 5 HD streams 
simultaneously, it helps to show him “you’re getting what you’re paying for”.  
Then you can maybe upsell him to a higher speed tier.



  If he’s downloading a 150 GB Xbox game, your tech support is going to 
have to educate him about restricting the hours that game consoles can do 
downloads.  Making speedtest.net results look better isn’t going to avoid that, 
in fact it may make that more difficult.  The effort might be better spent 
finding a way to deprioritize software downloads, so people can watch video or 
pay games while new games are downloading.



  If you sell best effort “up to” speeds, the answer may be different.





  From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
  Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 8:46 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net



  If I'm being honest, it's partly a failure on the sales end to manage 
expectations on wireless ("up to 50mbps" etc), and partly a failure of tech 
support to manage the conversation.  IMO they need to not let the customer 
focus on a speed test result and instead prompt them to talk about what their 
actual problems are. Whether the speed test says 10 meg or 50 meg has no 
bearing on the fact that you suck of Call of Duty or that your VPN to the 
office doesn't want to connect this morning.

  I think the idea is just make the speed test show what they want to see 
and then we can move the conversation forward.  It strikes me as a viable but 
lazy and dishonest solution.  I'm trying hard to be open minded.

  I appreciate all the thoughts on this.  Thanks everyone.



  On 11/5/2019 8:01 AM, Daniel White wrote:

I've worked extensively with Sandvine and Saisei and this is a topic 
that always comes up sinc

Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

[Josh Luthman]

How so?  I didn't notice any difference from when our server was taken
offline (because I didn't have a 10G pipe).

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 2:42 PM  wrote:

> If you host a speedtest server, most of this goes away.
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 5, 2019 6:07 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net
>
>
> Sounds like an IT guy justifying his paycheck.  Why do you need me?  I
> call our ISP every morning and bitch about the speed.  Right after the
> rooster crows to make the sun come up.  Without me and the rooster, the
> Internet would be slow and the sun wouldn’t rise.
>
>
>
> Either that or an IT guy who spends all day with people bitching at him,
> so his only joy is bitching at you.
>
>
>
> I am somehow reminded of yesterday on WGN radio they were talking about
> auto responders and people who don’t realize they are arguing with an auto
> responder, and how people will call WGN to bitch about something and the
> auto responder would thank them for liking WGN and offer to send them an
> autographed photo.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Nate Burke
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 5, 2019 10:02 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net
>
>
>
> It is tempting.  This is also the IT Guy who told me "I can definitely
> tell how much faster my LAN is since I've changed from Cat5e to Cat6
> cables."
>
> On 11/5/2019 9:47 AM, Craig Schmaderer wrote:
>
> Nate, you should route his call into a special phone tree that he can not
> escape out of.  lol
>
>
>
> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Nate Burke
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 5, 2019 9:43 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net
>
>
>
> I think it would be a good tool to have in the toolbox, but maybe
> selectively applied.
>
> We have one business customer (Broadband), every morning the "IT guy" will
> run a speedtest, and call in if it's not the 40mb he expects.  He don't
> bother to look at any of his other network traffic, any downloads that are
> going on, if there are actually any problems.  He only cares what speedtest
> shows, and if his screen doesn't show 40mb, then he's calling.  Every time,
> !EVERY TIME!, it's because his network traffic is using the rest of the
> connection, which we explain to him EVERY TIME, but this has been his
> operating procedure for the last 3 years.  "Hey guys, speeds are slow this
> morning, you need to check it and fix it."
>
> On 11/5/2019 9:30 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> If you sell by speed tiers, I think speedtest.net can actually be your
> friend, and you don’t want to doctor the results.  If the guy on a 10 Mbps
> plan is complaining his Internet is slow because he can’t watch 5 HD
> streams simultaneously, it helps to show him “you’re getting what you’re
> paying for”.  Then you can maybe upsell him to a higher speed tier.
>
>
>
> If he’s downloading a 150 GB Xbox game, your tech support is going to have
> to educate him about restricting the hours that game consoles can do
> downloads.  Making speedtest.net results look better isn’t going to avoid
> that, in fact it may make that more difficult.  The effort might be better
> spent finding a way to deprioritize software downloads, so people can watch
> video or pay games while new games are downloading.
>
>
>
> If you sell best effort “up to” speeds, the answer may be different.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 5, 2019 8:46 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net
>
>
>
> If I'm being honest, it's partly a failure on the sales end to manage
> expectations on wireless ("up to 50mbps" etc), and partly a failure of tech
> support to manage the conversation.  IMO they need to not let the customer
> focus on a speed test result and instead prompt them to talk about what
> their actual problems are. Whether the speed test says 10 meg or 50 meg has
> no bearing on the fact that you suck of Call of Duty or that your VPN to
> the office doesn't want to connect this morning.
>
> I think the idea is just make the speed test show what they want to see
> and then we can move the conversation forward.  It strikes me as a viable
> but lazy and dishonest solution.  I'm trying hard to be open minded.
>
> I appreciate all the thoughts on this.  Thanks everyone.
>
>
>
> On 11/5/2019 8:01 AM, Daniel White wrote:
>
> I've worked extensively with Sandvine and Saisei and this is a topic that
> always comes up since it is fairly easy to implement via those appliances
> (and easier to implement across multiple speed testing sites).
>
> I don't see it as evil on a best effort connection.  Customers typically
> are not likely to understand what the results m

Re: [AFMUG] cnHeat Promotion

[chuck]

Would this be the 
450H

450L

450C

Or the  450R ?


From: Ray Savich via AF 
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 8:44 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Ray Savich 
Subject: [AFMUG] cnHeat Promotion

For the first 100 WISPs in the USA: Purchase four 450m, 450i AP, or ePMP 3000 
now through December 20 and receive a 1year subscription to cnHeat LOCATE and 
500 cnHeat IDENTIFY addresses for free. 
https://community.cambiumnetworks.com/t5/cnHeat/cnHeat-IDENTIFY-Promotion-Free-One-Year-Subscription-Free-500/td-p/110476
 



 

 

 




-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] cnHeat Promotion

[Matt Hoppes]

1 year subscription for how many APs?

On 11/5/19 2:44 PM, Ray Savich via AF wrote:
For the first 100 WISPs in the USA: Purchase four 450m, 450i AP, or ePMP 
3000 now through December 20 and receive a 1year subscription to cnHeat 
LOCATE and 500 cnHeat IDENTIFY addresses for free. 
https://community.cambiumnetworks.com/t5/cnHeat/cnHeat-IDENTIFY-Promotion-Free-One-Year-Subscription-Free-500/td-p/110476 






--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

[AFMUG] cnHeat Promotion

[Ray Savich via AF]

For the first 100 WISPs in the USA: Purchase four 450m, 450i AP, or ePMP 3000 
now through December 20 and receive a 1year subscription to cnHeat LOCATE and 
500 cnHeat IDENTIFY addresses for free. 
https://community.cambiumnetworks.com/t5/cnHeat/cnHeat-IDENTIFY-Promotion-Free-One-Year-Subscription-Free-500/td-p/110476
[cid:image001.jpg@01D593DF.2D6743B0]



-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

[chuck]

If you host a speedtest server, most of this goes away.

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 6:07 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

Sounds like an IT guy justifying his paycheck.  Why do you need me?  I call our 
ISP every morning and bitch about the speed.  Right after the rooster crows to 
make the sun come up.  Without me and the rooster, the Internet would be slow 
and the sun wouldn’t rise.

 

Either that or an IT guy who spends all day with people bitching at him, so his 
only joy is bitching at you.

 

I am somehow reminded of yesterday on WGN radio they were talking about auto 
responders and people who don’t realize they are arguing with an auto 
responder, and how people will call WGN to bitch about something and the auto 
responder would thank them for liking WGN and offer to send them an autographed 
photo.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 10:02 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

 

It is tempting.  This is also the IT Guy who told me "I can definitely tell how 
much faster my LAN is since I've changed from Cat5e to Cat6 cables."  

On 11/5/2019 9:47 AM, Craig Schmaderer wrote:

  Nate, you should route his call into a special phone tree that he can not 
escape out of.  lol

   

  From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Nate Burke
  Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 9:43 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

   

  I think it would be a good tool to have in the toolbox, but maybe selectively 
applied.  

  We have one business customer (Broadband), every morning the "IT guy" will 
run a speedtest, and call in if it's not the 40mb he expects.  He don't bother 
to look at any of his other network traffic, any downloads that are going on, 
if there are actually any problems.  He only cares what speedtest shows, and if 
his screen doesn't show 40mb, then he's calling.  Every time, !EVERY TIME!, 
it's because his network traffic is using the rest of the connection, which we 
explain to him EVERY TIME, but this has been his operating procedure for the 
last 3 years.  "Hey guys, speeds are slow this morning, you need to check it 
and fix it."

  On 11/5/2019 9:30 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

If you sell by speed tiers, I think speedtest.net can actually be your 
friend, and you don’t want to doctor the results.  If the guy on a 10 Mbps plan 
is complaining his Internet is slow because he can’t watch 5 HD streams 
simultaneously, it helps to show him “you’re getting what you’re paying for”.  
Then you can maybe upsell him to a higher speed tier.

 

If he’s downloading a 150 GB Xbox game, your tech support is going to have 
to educate him about restricting the hours that game consoles can do downloads. 
 Making speedtest.net results look better isn’t going to avoid that, in fact it 
may make that more difficult.  The effort might be better spent finding a way 
to deprioritize software downloads, so people can watch video or pay games 
while new games are downloading.

 

If you sell best effort “up to” speeds, the answer may be different.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 8:46 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

 

If I'm being honest, it's partly a failure on the sales end to manage 
expectations on wireless ("up to 50mbps" etc), and partly a failure of tech 
support to manage the conversation.  IMO they need to not let the customer 
focus on a speed test result and instead prompt them to talk about what their 
actual problems are. Whether the speed test says 10 meg or 50 meg has no 
bearing on the fact that you suck of Call of Duty or that your VPN to the 
office doesn't want to connect this morning.

I think the idea is just make the speed test show what they want to see and 
then we can move the conversation forward.  It strikes me as a viable but lazy 
and dishonest solution.  I'm trying hard to be open minded.

I appreciate all the thoughts on this.  Thanks everyone.

 

On 11/5/2019 8:01 AM, Daniel White wrote:

  I've worked extensively with Sandvine and Saisei and this is a topic that 
always comes up since it is fairly easy to implement via those appliances (and 
easier to implement across multiple speed testing sites).

  I don't see it as evil on a best effort connection.  Customers typically 
are not likely to understand what the results mean and the only congestion it 
masks is on your network (which you should be aware of anyways).  You can chalk 
it up to reasonable network management practices, as the intent is to show what 
your connection is capable of vs. what is available to you at that moment.  
Furthermore, unless the speedtest server is on your network, s

Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

[Seth Mattinen]

On 11/5/19 6:45 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
If I'm being honest, it's partly a failure on the sales end to manage 
expectations on wireless ("up to 50mbps" etc), and partly a failure of 
tech support to manage the conversation.  IMO they need to not let the 
customer focus on a speed test result and instead prompt them to talk 
about what their actual problems are. Whether the speed test says 10 meg 
or 50 meg has no bearing on the fact that you suck of Call of Duty or 
that your VPN to the office doesn't want to connect this morning.



I don't know, some customers are just obtuse idiots. Yesterday someone 
started arguing with me what it means to "return equipment" when they 
cancel. I expect they are going to stiff me on their last bill as well.


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

[Adam Moffett]

If he’s downloading a 150 GB Xbox game, your tech support is going to 
have to educate him about restricting the hours that game consoles can 
do downloads.


That's what I would say too.  The counterpoint is that some people 
refuse to be educated.  They'll just assume you're the evil lying ISP 
making excuses.


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

[Ken Hohhof]

Sounds like an IT guy justifying his paycheck.  Why do you need me?  I call
our ISP every morning and bitch about the speed.  Right after the rooster
crows to make the sun come up.  Without me and the rooster, the Internet
would be slow and the sun wouldn't rise.

 

Either that or an IT guy who spends all day with people bitching at him, so
his only joy is bitching at you.

 

I am somehow reminded of yesterday on WGN radio they were talking about auto
responders and people who don't realize they are arguing with an auto
responder, and how people will call WGN to bitch about something and the
auto responder would thank them for liking WGN and offer to send them an
autographed photo.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 10:02 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

 

It is tempting.  This is also the IT Guy who told me "I can definitely tell
how much faster my LAN is since I've changed from Cat5e to Cat6 cables."  

On 11/5/2019 9:47 AM, Craig Schmaderer wrote:

Nate, you should route his call into a special phone tree that he can not
escape out of.  lol

 

From: AF    On
Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 9:43 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

 

I think it would be a good tool to have in the toolbox, but maybe
selectively applied.  

We have one business customer (Broadband), every morning the "IT guy" will
run a speedtest, and call in if it's not the 40mb he expects.  He don't
bother to look at any of his other network traffic, any downloads that are
going on, if there are actually any problems.  He only cares what speedtest
shows, and if his screen doesn't show 40mb, then he's calling.  Every time,
!EVERY TIME!, it's because his network traffic is using the rest of the
connection, which we explain to him EVERY TIME, but this has been his
operating procedure for the last 3 years.  "Hey guys, speeds are slow this
morning, you need to check it and fix it."

On 11/5/2019 9:30 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

If you sell by speed tiers, I think speedtest.net can actually be your
friend, and you don't want to doctor the results.  If the guy on a 10 Mbps
plan is complaining his Internet is slow because he can't watch 5 HD streams
simultaneously, it helps to show him "you're getting what you're paying
for".  Then you can maybe upsell him to a higher speed tier.

 

If he's downloading a 150 GB Xbox game, your tech support is going to have
to educate him about restricting the hours that game consoles can do
downloads.  Making speedtest.net results look better isn't going to avoid
that, in fact it may make that more difficult.  The effort might be better
spent finding a way to deprioritize software downloads, so people can watch
video or pay games while new games are downloading.

 

If you sell best effort "up to" speeds, the answer may be different.

 

 

From: AF    On
Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 8:46 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

 

If I'm being honest, it's partly a failure on the sales end to manage
expectations on wireless ("up to 50mbps" etc), and partly a failure of tech
support to manage the conversation.  IMO they need to not let the customer
focus on a speed test result and instead prompt them to talk about what
their actual problems are. Whether the speed test says 10 meg or 50 meg has
no bearing on the fact that you suck of Call of Duty or that your VPN to the
office doesn't want to connect this morning.

I think the idea is just make the speed test show what they want to see and
then we can move the conversation forward.  It strikes me as a viable but
lazy and dishonest solution.  I'm trying hard to be open minded.

I appreciate all the thoughts on this.  Thanks everyone.

 

On 11/5/2019 8:01 AM, Daniel White wrote:

I've worked extensively with Sandvine and Saisei and this is a topic that
always comes up since it is fairly easy to implement via those appliances
(and easier to implement across multiple speed testing sites).

I don't see it as evil on a best effort connection.  Customers typically are
not likely to understand what the results mean and the only congestion it
masks is on your network (which you should be aware of anyways).  You can
chalk it up to reasonable network management practices, as the intent is to
show what your connection is capable of vs. what is available to you at that
moment.  Furthermore, unless the speedtest server is on your network,
sometimes the issue is on the net or with the server so further impacting
the results by giving the testing a low availability on your network is
further giving your customers the wrong impression of your actual delivery.

By implementing something though - how many support tickets are you
potentially reduci

Re: [AFMUG] troubleshooting smart TV complaints?

[Josh Luthman]

Why did you guys start this conversation.  I just had someone open a ticket
because their Samsung 4k TV wouldn't play any videos.

She didn't understand it could be the TV.  It had to be the wind.  Even
though it was working on her iPhone just fine.

Basic logic is lost amongst the public.  And there's another thread about
blaming the sales people on the "up to speeds" and customers seeing only 45
mbps on their 50 mbps plan during the Netflix extravaganza.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 11:53 AM Cameron Crum  wrote:

> Silo or Atyme... pretty much the same. The remotes even work on each
> other.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 10:42 AM Darin Steffl 
> wrote:
>
>> I find it's almost impossible to buy a non-smart TV nowadays. Most TVs
>> 42" or larger all have something built in but I still would only use a
>> dedicated device like Roku or fire tv for the best experience.
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 5, 2019, 1:24 PM Cameron Crum  wrote:
>>
>>> You can get non-smart TV's a lot cheaper and then get a Roku stick. I've
>>> got several sub $200 43 inch 4k TVs I got on the daily deals at frys. Most
>>> of them run off a cat-6 distributed network so they can all show the same
>>> thing at the same time. They are hanging in my DIY auto shop so people can
>>> all watch sports while working on their cars and such. I have the main roku
>>> running on the distribution and then individual rokus I hand out if they
>>> want to screen cast you tube videos or something to help them with their
>>> projects.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 2, 2019 at 3:59 PM Mathew Howard 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 It's especially good when the router is sitting right next to the TV...

 But to be fair, the majority of cheap smart TVs and streaming devices
 probably are wifi only.

 On Sat, Nov 2, 2019 at 7:58 AM Lewis Bergman 
 wrote:

> WiFi to the TV send like a waste. The TV never moves. Why not run a
> damn cable? I never have issues like this when the TV is hardwired.
>
> On Sat, Nov 2, 2019, 7:53 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Does the hive mind have any suggestions for troubleshooting
>> complaints like “my LG smart TV can’t connect to Amazon Prime in the
>> evening, it says to contact my ISP”?  Not an insufficient speed error, a
>> cannot connect to the service error.  Yet the TV is connected to their
>> WiFi, and its local IP address can be pinged just fine from the router.
>>
>>
>>
>> Let’s say their connection checks out totally OK, and even though the
>> only thing they do on the Internet is watch Amazon Prime (because it’s
>> essentially free), we get them to  check some other stuff like going to
>> Google from their phone or running a Netflix speedtest at fast.com
>> and that seems OK also.
>>
>>
>>
>> If everything else seems OK, it seems like a pointless adventure of
>> reset your router, reset your TV, update the apps on your TV, try some
>> other streaming service like Netflix or Hulu, oh you don’t have
>> subscriptions.  Do you get sucked into that, or just say call the TV
>> manufacturer, call Amazon Prime?  They are just going to say call your
>> ISP.  I’m tempted to say there are dozens of streaming services, if 
>> Amazon
>> Prime isn’t working for you, switch to Netflix, Hulu, etc.  I know at one
>> time people would have trouble with their early Samsung smart TVs and I
>> would tell them to call a computer guy who would tell them their router 
>> and
>> TV were incompatible and sell them a new router.  So it’s not ALWAYS your
>> ISP’s fault.
>>
>>
>>
>> At least with a website that’s not working, you can do pings and
>> traceroutes to its IP address.  I have no idea how to check reachability,
>> packet loss, latency, etc. to Amazon Prime.
>>
>>
>>
>> And if people complain about rebuffering or video quality there is a
>> TCP connection we can torch and figure out where the traffic is going.  
>> How
>> do you troubleshoot with a TV?
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] troubleshooting smart TV complaints?

[Cameron Crum]

Silo or Atyme... pretty much the same. The remotes even work on each other.



On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 10:42 AM Darin Steffl 
wrote:

> I find it's almost impossible to buy a non-smart TV nowadays. Most TVs 42"
> or larger all have something built in but I still would only use a
> dedicated device like Roku or fire tv for the best experience.
>
> On Tue, Nov 5, 2019, 1:24 PM Cameron Crum  wrote:
>
>> You can get non-smart TV's a lot cheaper and then get a Roku stick. I've
>> got several sub $200 43 inch 4k TVs I got on the daily deals at frys. Most
>> of them run off a cat-6 distributed network so they can all show the same
>> thing at the same time. They are hanging in my DIY auto shop so people can
>> all watch sports while working on their cars and such. I have the main roku
>> running on the distribution and then individual rokus I hand out if they
>> want to screen cast you tube videos or something to help them with their
>> projects.
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 2, 2019 at 3:59 PM Mathew Howard 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It's especially good when the router is sitting right next to the TV...
>>>
>>> But to be fair, the majority of cheap smart TVs and streaming devices
>>> probably are wifi only.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 2, 2019 at 7:58 AM Lewis Bergman 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 WiFi to the TV send like a waste. The TV never moves. Why not run a
 damn cable? I never have issues like this when the TV is hardwired.

 On Sat, Nov 2, 2019, 7:53 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Does the hive mind have any suggestions for troubleshooting complaints
> like “my LG smart TV can’t connect to Amazon Prime in the evening, it says
> to contact my ISP”?  Not an insufficient speed error, a cannot connect to
> the service error.  Yet the TV is connected to their WiFi, and its local 
> IP
> address can be pinged just fine from the router.
>
>
>
> Let’s say their connection checks out totally OK, and even though the
> only thing they do on the Internet is watch Amazon Prime (because it’s
> essentially free), we get them to  check some other stuff like going to
> Google from their phone or running a Netflix speedtest at fast.com
> and that seems OK also.
>
>
>
> If everything else seems OK, it seems like a pointless adventure of
> reset your router, reset your TV, update the apps on your TV, try some
> other streaming service like Netflix or Hulu, oh you don’t have
> subscriptions.  Do you get sucked into that, or just say call the TV
> manufacturer, call Amazon Prime?  They are just going to say call your
> ISP.  I’m tempted to say there are dozens of streaming services, if Amazon
> Prime isn’t working for you, switch to Netflix, Hulu, etc.  I know at one
> time people would have trouble with their early Samsung smart TVs and I
> would tell them to call a computer guy who would tell them their router 
> and
> TV were incompatible and sell them a new router.  So it’s not ALWAYS your
> ISP’s fault.
>
>
>
> At least with a website that’s not working, you can do pings and
> traceroutes to its IP address.  I have no idea how to check reachability,
> packet loss, latency, etc. to Amazon Prime.
>
>
>
> And if people complain about rebuffering or video quality there is a
> TCP connection we can torch and figure out where the traffic is going.  
> How
> do you troubleshoot with a TV?
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] troubleshooting smart TV complaints?

[Darin Steffl]

I find it's almost impossible to buy a non-smart TV nowadays. Most TVs 42"
or larger all have something built in but I still would only use a
dedicated device like Roku or fire tv for the best experience.

On Tue, Nov 5, 2019, 1:24 PM Cameron Crum  wrote:

> You can get non-smart TV's a lot cheaper and then get a Roku stick. I've
> got several sub $200 43 inch 4k TVs I got on the daily deals at frys. Most
> of them run off a cat-6 distributed network so they can all show the same
> thing at the same time. They are hanging in my DIY auto shop so people can
> all watch sports while working on their cars and such. I have the main roku
> running on the distribution and then individual rokus I hand out if they
> want to screen cast you tube videos or something to help them with their
> projects.
>
> On Sat, Nov 2, 2019 at 3:59 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:
>
>> It's especially good when the router is sitting right next to the TV...
>>
>> But to be fair, the majority of cheap smart TVs and streaming devices
>> probably are wifi only.
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 2, 2019 at 7:58 AM Lewis Bergman 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> WiFi to the TV send like a waste. The TV never moves. Why not run a damn
>>> cable? I never have issues like this when the TV is hardwired.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 2, 2019, 7:53 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>>
 Does the hive mind have any suggestions for troubleshooting complaints
 like “my LG smart TV can’t connect to Amazon Prime in the evening, it says
 to contact my ISP”?  Not an insufficient speed error, a cannot connect to
 the service error.  Yet the TV is connected to their WiFi, and its local IP
 address can be pinged just fine from the router.



 Let’s say their connection checks out totally OK, and even though the
 only thing they do on the Internet is watch Amazon Prime (because it’s
 essentially free), we get them to  check some other stuff like going to
 Google from their phone or running a Netflix speedtest at fast.com and
 that seems OK also.



 If everything else seems OK, it seems like a pointless adventure of
 reset your router, reset your TV, update the apps on your TV, try some
 other streaming service like Netflix or Hulu, oh you don’t have
 subscriptions.  Do you get sucked into that, or just say call the TV
 manufacturer, call Amazon Prime?  They are just going to say call your
 ISP.  I’m tempted to say there are dozens of streaming services, if Amazon
 Prime isn’t working for you, switch to Netflix, Hulu, etc.  I know at one
 time people would have trouble with their early Samsung smart TVs and I
 would tell them to call a computer guy who would tell them their router and
 TV were incompatible and sell them a new router.  So it’s not ALWAYS your
 ISP’s fault.



 At least with a website that’s not working, you can do pings and
 traceroutes to its IP address.  I have no idea how to check reachability,
 packet loss, latency, etc. to Amazon Prime.



 And if people complain about rebuffering or video quality there is a
 TCP connection we can torch and figure out where the traffic is going.  How
 do you troubleshoot with a TV?
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] troubleshooting smart TV complaints?

[Cameron Crum]

You can get non-smart TV's a lot cheaper and then get a Roku stick. I've
got several sub $200 43 inch 4k TVs I got on the daily deals at frys. Most
of them run off a cat-6 distributed network so they can all show the same
thing at the same time. They are hanging in my DIY auto shop so people can
all watch sports while working on their cars and such. I have the main roku
running on the distribution and then individual rokus I hand out if they
want to screen cast you tube videos or something to help them with their
projects.

On Sat, Nov 2, 2019 at 3:59 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:

> It's especially good when the router is sitting right next to the TV...
>
> But to be fair, the majority of cheap smart TVs and streaming devices
> probably are wifi only.
>
> On Sat, Nov 2, 2019 at 7:58 AM Lewis Bergman 
> wrote:
>
>> WiFi to the TV send like a waste. The TV never moves. Why not run a damn
>> cable? I never have issues like this when the TV is hardwired.
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 2, 2019, 7:53 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>>> Does the hive mind have any suggestions for troubleshooting complaints
>>> like “my LG smart TV can’t connect to Amazon Prime in the evening, it says
>>> to contact my ISP”?  Not an insufficient speed error, a cannot connect to
>>> the service error.  Yet the TV is connected to their WiFi, and its local IP
>>> address can be pinged just fine from the router.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Let’s say their connection checks out totally OK, and even though the
>>> only thing they do on the Internet is watch Amazon Prime (because it’s
>>> essentially free), we get them to  check some other stuff like going to
>>> Google from their phone or running a Netflix speedtest at fast.com and
>>> that seems OK also.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If everything else seems OK, it seems like a pointless adventure of
>>> reset your router, reset your TV, update the apps on your TV, try some
>>> other streaming service like Netflix or Hulu, oh you don’t have
>>> subscriptions.  Do you get sucked into that, or just say call the TV
>>> manufacturer, call Amazon Prime?  They are just going to say call your
>>> ISP.  I’m tempted to say there are dozens of streaming services, if Amazon
>>> Prime isn’t working for you, switch to Netflix, Hulu, etc.  I know at one
>>> time people would have trouble with their early Samsung smart TVs and I
>>> would tell them to call a computer guy who would tell them their router and
>>> TV were incompatible and sell them a new router.  So it’s not ALWAYS your
>>> ISP’s fault.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> At least with a website that’s not working, you can do pings and
>>> traceroutes to its IP address.  I have no idea how to check reachability,
>>> packet loss, latency, etc. to Amazon Prime.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And if people complain about rebuffering or video quality there is a TCP
>>> connection we can torch and figure out where the traffic is going.  How do
>>> you troubleshoot with a TV?
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

[Adam Moffett]

What's funny is our test case is a residential customer who does 
essentially the same thing.  I think he's a programmer of some type.



On 11/5/2019 10:42 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
I think it would be a good tool to have in the toolbox, but maybe 
selectively applied.


We have one business customer (Broadband), every morning the "IT guy" 
will run a speedtest, and call in if it's not the 40mb he expects.  He 
don't bother to look at any of his other network traffic, any 
downloads that are going on, if there are actually any problems.  He 
only cares what speedtest shows, and if his screen doesn't show 40mb, 
then he's calling.  Every time, !EVERY TIME!, it's because his network 
traffic is using the rest of the connection, which we explain to him 
EVERY TIME, but this has been his operating procedure for the last 3 
years.  "Hey guys, speeds are slow this morning, you need to check it 
and fix it."


On 11/5/2019 9:30 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


If you sell by speed tiers, I think speedtest.net can actually be 
your friend, and you don’t want to doctor the results.  If the guy on 
a 10 Mbps plan is complaining his Internet is slow because he can’t 
watch 5 HD streams simultaneously, it helps to show him “you’re 
getting what you’re paying for”.  Then you can maybe upsell him to a 
higher speed tier.


If he’s downloading a 150 GB Xbox game, your tech support is going to 
have to educate him about restricting the hours that game consoles 
can do downloads.  Making speedtest.net results look better isn’t 
going to avoid that, in fact it may make that more difficult.  The 
effort might be better spent finding a way to deprioritize software 
downloads, so people can watch video or pay games while new games are 
downloading.


If you sell best effort “up to” speeds, the answer may be different.

*From:*AF  *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 5, 2019 8:46 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

If I'm being honest, it's partly a failure on the sales end to manage 
expectations on wireless ("up to 50mbps" etc), and partly a failure 
of tech support to manage the conversation.  IMO they need to not let 
the customer focus on a speed test result and instead prompt them to 
talk about what their actual problems are. Whether the speed test 
says 10 meg or 50 meg has no bearing on the fact that you suck of 
Call of Duty or that your VPN to the office doesn't want to connect 
this morning.


I think the idea is just make the speed test show what they want to 
see and then we can move the conversation forward. It strikes me as a 
viable but lazy and dishonest solution. I'm trying hard to be open 
minded.


I appreciate all the thoughts on this.  Thanks everyone.

On 11/5/2019 8:01 AM, Daniel White wrote:

I've worked extensively with Sandvine and Saisei and this is a
topic that always comes up since it is fairly easy to implement
via those appliances (and easier to implement across multiple
speed testing sites).

I don't see it as evil on a best effort connection. Customers
typically are not likely to understand what the results mean and
the only congestion it masks is on your network (which you should
be aware of anyways).  You can chalk it up to reasonable network
management practices, as the intent is to show what your
connection is capable of vs. what is available to you at that
moment.  Furthermore, unless the speedtest server is on your
network, sometimes the issue is on the net or with the server so
further impacting the results by giving the testing a low
availability on your network is further giving your customers the
wrong impression of your actual delivery.

By implementing something though - how many support tickets are
you potentially reducing?  How about customer churn?  If these
are issues for you is it because you have actual congestion on
your network? Is hacking the response worthwhile from a technical
effort - and if your customers found out about it is it
worthwhile from a PR standpoint?

I usually end up somewhere in the it's cool to tinker with but of
limited value in the real world.  The PR fallout if your
competition finds out and uses it against you is probably more
damaging.

My 2 cents.

photograph



*Daniel White
*Co-Founder & Managing Director of Operations

*phone:* +1 (702) 470-2766
*direct:* +1 (702) 470-2770


Adam Moffett wrote on 11/4/19 12:32:

I can set a higher priority DSCP value on speedtest.net
traffic. I tested this on one SM and it works great.  On a
busy AP at 9:30pm I was getting speedtest results from
12-20mbps.  I set the speedtest traffic to DSCP 26 and enable
a "medium" priority channel and now it's 34mbps every single
time without fail (and at my data rate, frame size, etc
that's all I could ever hope for).

The question is:

Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

[Craig Schmaderer]

Duh, must be morning, yeah you are right on the upstream part.  Downstream part 
would be easy.  I need more coffee.

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 10:15 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

This is all hypothetical right now, but in my test I did the marking on the 
router upstream from the customer.  The wireless access point is configured to 
give a higher weight to traffic with that tag.  You'd have to do it at the 
customer end instead (or in addition) if you needed to affect upstream traffic 
as well.


On 11/5/2019 10:46 AM, Craig Schmaderer wrote:
> Adam, so you are marking the traffic DSCP with the speed test ips on the 
> customer router I would assume.  I could easily do this on our managed Calix 
> routers and I have thought about this a lot, even for my fiber customers, 
> just so they get a solid speed test when they are streaming.  I am not really 
> worried about congestion even our my wireless network, that usually means it 
> is time for me to upgrade that tower anyways.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
> Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 8:30 AM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net
>
> The short answer is you don't need to match every packet, just need to 
> identify the IPs of speedtest.net servers.  Easy to do.
>
>
> On 11/5/2019 6:15 AM, Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] wrote:
>> Howdy Adam,
>>
>> How are you detecting/classifying the test data?  Isn't it all SSL?
>>
>> Jim Bouse
>> Owner - Brazos WiFi
>> 979-985-5912
>> http://www.brazoswifi.com
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
>> Sent: Monday, November 4, 2019 1:32 PM
>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net
>>
>> I can set a higher priority DSCP value on speedtest.net traffic. I tested 
>> this on one SM and it works great.  On a busy AP at 9:30pm I was getting 
>> speedtest results from 12-20mbps.  I set the speedtest traffic to DSCP 26 
>> and enable a "medium" priority channel and now it's 34mbps every single time 
>> without fail (and at my data rate, frame size, etc that's all I could ever 
>> hope for).
>>
>> The question is: Would this be evil?
>>
>> The feeling is that for some customers there's nothing actually wrong except 
>> they run speedtest.net simultaneously as their XBox downloads a game and 
>> then call to report "slow" speeds.  The feeling is that it would be easier 
>> to just let them see a bigger speed test number than to educate them (and 
>> some will always refuse to be educated).
>>
>> The evil part is that it would mask an actual congestion problem.
>>
>> There's also a notion being tossed around the office that our competitors 
>> are already doing this.  I have no idea if they actually are, and I'm also 
>> not sure if I care what they're doing.
>>
>> -Adam
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

[Adam Moffett]

This is all hypothetical right now, but in my test I did the marking on 
the router upstream from the customer.  The wireless access point is 
configured to give a higher weight to traffic with that tag.  You'd have 
to do it at the customer end instead (or in addition) if you needed to 
affect upstream traffic as well.



On 11/5/2019 10:46 AM, Craig Schmaderer wrote:

Adam, so you are marking the traffic DSCP with the speed test ips on the 
customer router I would assume.  I could easily do this on our managed Calix 
routers and I have thought about this a lot, even for my fiber customers, just 
so they get a solid speed test when they are streaming.  I am not really 
worried about congestion even our my wireless network, that usually means it is 
time for me to upgrade that tower anyways.

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 8:30 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

The short answer is you don't need to match every packet, just need to identify 
the IPs of speedtest.net servers.  Easy to do.


On 11/5/2019 6:15 AM, Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] wrote:

Howdy Adam,

How are you detecting/classifying the test data?  Isn't it all SSL?

Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-985-5912
http://www.brazoswifi.com

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, November 4, 2019 1:32 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

I can set a higher priority DSCP value on speedtest.net traffic. I tested this on one SM 
and it works great.  On a busy AP at 9:30pm I was getting speedtest results from 
12-20mbps.  I set the speedtest traffic to DSCP 26 and enable a "medium" 
priority channel and now it's 34mbps every single time without fail (and at my data rate, 
frame size, etc that's all I could ever hope for).

The question is: Would this be evil?

The feeling is that for some customers there's nothing actually wrong except they run 
speedtest.net simultaneously as their XBox downloads a game and then call to report 
"slow" speeds.  The feeling is that it would be easier to just let them see a 
bigger speed test number than to educate them (and some will always refuse to be 
educated).

The evil part is that it would mask an actual congestion problem.

There's also a notion being tossed around the office that our competitors are 
already doing this.  I have no idea if they actually are, and I'm also not sure 
if I care what they're doing.

-Adam



--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

[Robert]

& that would be the kind of IT guy that makes the IT title the brunt of 
so many jokes.   You should direct him to the "Buy a Clue $1" 
website...    * I have wanted to do that website since 1995 *


On 11/5/19 8:02 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
It is tempting.  This is also the IT Guy who told me "I can definitely 
tell how much faster my LAN is since I've changed from Cat5e to Cat6 
cables."


On 11/5/2019 9:47 AM, Craig Schmaderer wrote:


Nate, you should route his call into a special phone tree that he can 
not escape out of.  lol


*From:*AF  *On Behalf Of *Nate Burke
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 5, 2019 9:43 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

I think it would be a good tool to have in the toolbox, but maybe 
selectively applied.


We have one business customer (Broadband), every morning the "IT guy" 
will run a speedtest, and call in if it's not the 40mb he expects.  
He don't bother to look at any of his other network traffic, any 
downloads that are going on, if there are actually any problems.  He 
only cares what speedtest shows, and if his screen doesn't show 40mb, 
then he's calling.  Every time, !EVERY TIME!, it's because his 
network traffic is using the rest of the connection, which we explain 
to him EVERY TIME, but this has been his operating procedure for the 
last 3 years.  "Hey guys, speeds are slow this morning, you need to 
check it and fix it."


On 11/5/2019 9:30 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

If you sell by speed tiers, I think speedtest.net can actually be
your friend, and you don’t want to doctor the results.  If the
guy on a 10 Mbps plan is complaining his Internet is slow because
he can’t watch 5 HD streams simultaneously, it helps to show him
“you’re getting what you’re paying for”.  Then you can maybe
upsell him to a higher speed tier.

If he’s downloading a 150 GB Xbox game, your tech support is
going to have to educate him about restricting the hours that
game consoles can do downloads.  Making speedtest.net results
look better isn’t going to avoid that, in fact it may make that
more difficult.  The effort might be better spent finding a way
to deprioritize software downloads, so people can watch video or
pay games while new games are downloading.

If you sell best effort “up to” speeds, the answer may be different.

*From:*AF 
 *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 5, 2019 8:46 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

If I'm being honest, it's partly a failure on the sales end to
manage expectations on wireless ("up to 50mbps" etc), and partly
a failure of tech support to manage the conversation.  IMO they
need to not let the customer focus on a speed test result and
instead prompt them to talk about what their actual problems are.
Whether the speed test says 10 meg or 50 meg has no bearing on
the fact that you suck of Call of Duty or that your VPN to the
office doesn't want to connect this morning.

I think the idea is just make the speed test show what they want
to see and then we can move the conversation forward.  It strikes
me as a viable but lazy and dishonest solution.  I'm trying hard
to be open minded.

I appreciate all the thoughts on this.  Thanks everyone.

On 11/5/2019 8:01 AM, Daniel White wrote:

I've worked extensively with Sandvine and Saisei and this is
a topic that always comes up since it is fairly easy to
implement via those appliances (and easier to implement
across multiple speed testing sites).

I don't see it as evil on a best effort connection. Customers
typically are not likely to understand what the results mean
and the only congestion it masks is on your network (which
you should be aware of anyways).  You can chalk it up to
reasonable network management practices, as the intent is to
show what your connection is capable of vs. what is available
to you at that moment.  Furthermore, unless the speedtest
server is on your network, sometimes the issue is on the net
or with the server so further impacting the results by giving
the testing a low availability on your network is further
giving your customers the wrong impression of your actual
delivery.

By implementing something though - how many support tickets
are you potentially reducing?  How about customer churn?  If
these are issues for you is it because you have actual
congestion on your network? Is hacking the response
worthwhile from a technical effort - and if your customers
found out about it is it worthwhile from a PR standpoint?

I usually end up somewhere in the it's cool to tinker with
but of limited value in the real world

Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

[Nate Burke]

It is tempting.  This is also the IT Guy who told me "I can definitely 
tell how much faster my LAN is since I've changed from Cat5e to Cat6 
cables."


On 11/5/2019 9:47 AM, Craig Schmaderer wrote:


Nate, you should route his call into a special phone tree that he can 
not escape out of.  lol


*From:*AF  *On Behalf Of *Nate Burke
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 5, 2019 9:43 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

I think it would be a good tool to have in the toolbox, but maybe 
selectively applied.


We have one business customer (Broadband), every morning the "IT guy" 
will run a speedtest, and call in if it's not the 40mb he expects.  He 
don't bother to look at any of his other network traffic, any 
downloads that are going on, if there are actually any problems.  He 
only cares what speedtest shows, and if his screen doesn't show 40mb, 
then he's calling.  Every time, !EVERY TIME!, it's because his network 
traffic is using the rest of the connection, which we explain to him 
EVERY TIME, but this has been his operating procedure for the last 3 
years.  "Hey guys, speeds are slow this morning, you need to check it 
and fix it."


On 11/5/2019 9:30 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

If you sell by speed tiers, I think speedtest.net can actually be
your friend, and you don’t want to doctor the results.  If the guy
on a 10 Mbps plan is complaining his Internet is slow because he
can’t watch 5 HD streams simultaneously, it helps to show him
“you’re getting what you’re paying for”.  Then you can maybe
upsell him to a higher speed tier.

If he’s downloading a 150 GB Xbox game, your tech support is going
to have to educate him about restricting the hours that game
consoles can do downloads.  Making speedtest.net results look
better isn’t going to avoid that, in fact it may make that more
difficult.  The effort might be better spent finding a way to
deprioritize software downloads, so people can watch video or pay
games while new games are downloading.

If you sell best effort “up to” speeds, the answer may be different.

*From:*AF 
 *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 5, 2019 8:46 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

If I'm being honest, it's partly a failure on the sales end to
manage expectations on wireless ("up to 50mbps" etc), and partly a
failure of tech support to manage the conversation.  IMO they need
to not let the customer focus on a speed test result and instead
prompt them to talk about what their actual problems are. Whether
the speed test says 10 meg or 50 meg has no bearing on the fact
that you suck of Call of Duty or that your VPN to the office
doesn't want to connect this morning.

I think the idea is just make the speed test show what they want
to see and then we can move the conversation forward. It strikes
me as a viable but lazy and dishonest solution. I'm trying hard to
be open minded.

I appreciate all the thoughts on this.  Thanks everyone.

On 11/5/2019 8:01 AM, Daniel White wrote:

I've worked extensively with Sandvine and Saisei and this is a
topic that always comes up since it is fairly easy to
implement via those appliances (and easier to implement across
multiple speed testing sites).

I don't see it as evil on a best effort connection. Customers
typically are not likely to understand what the results mean
and the only congestion it masks is on your network (which you
should be aware of anyways).  You can chalk it up to
reasonable network management practices, as the intent is to
show what your connection is capable of vs. what is available
to you at that moment.  Furthermore, unless the speedtest
server is on your network, sometimes the issue is on the net
or with the server so further impacting the results by giving
the testing a low availability on your network is further
giving your customers the wrong impression of your actual
delivery.

By implementing something though - how many support tickets
are you potentially reducing?  How about customer churn?  If
these are issues for you is it because you have actual
congestion on your network? Is hacking the response worthwhile
from a technical effort - and if your customers found out
about it is it worthwhile from a PR standpoint?

I usually end up somewhere in the it's cool to tinker with but
of limited value in the real world.  The PR fallout if your
competition finds out and uses it against you is probably more
damaging.

My 2 cents.

photograph



*Daniel White
*Co-Founder & Managing Director of 

Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

[Craig Schmaderer]

Nate, you should route his call into a special phone tree that he can not 
escape out of.  lol

From: AF  On Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 9:43 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

I think it would be a good tool to have in the toolbox, but maybe selectively 
applied.

We have one business customer (Broadband), every morning the "IT guy" will run 
a speedtest, and call in if it's not the 40mb he expects.  He don't bother to 
look at any of his other network traffic, any downloads that are going on, if 
there are actually any problems.  He only cares what speedtest shows, and if 
his screen doesn't show 40mb, then he's calling.  Every time, !EVERY TIME!, 
it's because his network traffic is using the rest of the connection, which we 
explain to him EVERY TIME, but this has been his operating procedure for the 
last 3 years.  "Hey guys, speeds are slow this morning, you need to check it 
and fix it."
On 11/5/2019 9:30 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
If you sell by speed tiers, I think speedtest.net can actually be your friend, 
and you don't want to doctor the results.  If the guy on a 10 Mbps plan is 
complaining his Internet is slow because he can't watch 5 HD streams 
simultaneously, it helps to show him "you're getting what you're paying for".  
Then you can maybe upsell him to a higher speed tier.

If he's downloading a 150 GB Xbox game, your tech support is going to have to 
educate him about restricting the hours that game consoles can do downloads.  
Making speedtest.net results look better isn't going to avoid that, in fact it 
may make that more difficult.  The effort might be better spent finding a way 
to deprioritize software downloads, so people can watch video or pay games 
while new games are downloading.

If you sell best effort "up to" speeds, the answer may be different.


From: AF  On Behalf Of 
Adam Moffett
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 8:46 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net


If I'm being honest, it's partly a failure on the sales end to manage 
expectations on wireless ("up to 50mbps" etc), and partly a failure of tech 
support to manage the conversation.  IMO they need to not let the customer 
focus on a speed test result and instead prompt them to talk about what their 
actual problems are. Whether the speed test says 10 meg or 50 meg has no 
bearing on the fact that you suck of Call of Duty or that your VPN to the 
office doesn't want to connect this morning.

I think the idea is just make the speed test show what they want to see and 
then we can move the conversation forward.  It strikes me as a viable but lazy 
and dishonest solution.  I'm trying hard to be open minded.

I appreciate all the thoughts on this.  Thanks everyone.


On 11/5/2019 8:01 AM, Daniel White wrote:
I've worked extensively with Sandvine and Saisei and this is a topic that 
always comes up since it is fairly easy to implement via those appliances (and 
easier to implement across multiple speed testing sites).

I don't see it as evil on a best effort connection.  Customers typically are 
not likely to understand what the results mean and the only congestion it masks 
is on your network (which you should be aware of anyways).  You can chalk it up 
to reasonable network management practices, as the intent is to show what your 
connection is capable of vs. what is available to you at that moment.  
Furthermore, unless the speedtest server is on your network, sometimes the 
issue is on the net or with the server so further impacting the results by 
giving the testing a low availability on your network is further giving your 
customers the wrong impression of your actual delivery.

By implementing something though - how many support tickets are you potentially 
reducing?  How about customer churn?  If these are issues for you is it because 
you have actual congestion on your network?  Is hacking the response worthwhile 
from a technical effort - and if your customers found out about it is it 
worthwhile from a PR standpoint?

I usually end up somewhere in the it's cool to tinker with but of limited value 
in the real world.  The PR fallout if your competition finds out and uses it 
against you is probably more damaging.

My 2 cents.

[photograph]
Daniel White
Co-Founder & Managing Director of Operations
phone: +1 (702) 470-2766
direct: +1 (702) 470-2770
Adam Moffett wrote on 11/4/19 12:32:


I can set a higher priority DSCP value on speedtest.net traffic. I tested this 
on one SM and it works great.  On a busy AP at 9:30pm I was getting speedtest 
results from 12-20mbps.  I set the speedtest traffic to DSCP 26 and enable a 
"medium" priority channel and now it's 34mbps every single time without fail 
(and at my data rate, frame size, etc that's all I could ever hope for).

The question is: Would this be evil?

The feeling is that for some customers there's not

Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

[Craig Schmaderer]

Adam, so you are marking the traffic DSCP with the speed test ips on the 
customer router I would assume.  I could easily do this on our managed Calix 
routers and I have thought about this a lot, even for my fiber customers, just 
so they get a solid speed test when they are streaming.  I am not really 
worried about congestion even our my wireless network, that usually means it is 
time for me to upgrade that tower anyways.  

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 8:30 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

The short answer is you don't need to match every packet, just need to identify 
the IPs of speedtest.net servers.  Easy to do.


On 11/5/2019 6:15 AM, Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] wrote:
> Howdy Adam,
>
> How are you detecting/classifying the test data?  Isn't it all SSL?
>
> Jim Bouse
> Owner - Brazos WiFi
> 979-985-5912
> http://www.brazoswifi.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
> Sent: Monday, November 4, 2019 1:32 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net
>
> I can set a higher priority DSCP value on speedtest.net traffic. I tested 
> this on one SM and it works great.  On a busy AP at 9:30pm I was getting 
> speedtest results from 12-20mbps.  I set the speedtest traffic to DSCP 26 and 
> enable a "medium" priority channel and now it's 34mbps every single time 
> without fail (and at my data rate, frame size, etc that's all I could ever 
> hope for).
>
> The question is: Would this be evil?
>
> The feeling is that for some customers there's nothing actually wrong except 
> they run speedtest.net simultaneously as their XBox downloads a game and then 
> call to report "slow" speeds.  The feeling is that it would be easier to just 
> let them see a bigger speed test number than to educate them (and some will 
> always refuse to be educated).
>
> The evil part is that it would mask an actual congestion problem.
>
> There's also a notion being tossed around the office that our competitors are 
> already doing this.  I have no idea if they actually are, and I'm also not 
> sure if I care what they're doing.
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

[Nate Burke]

I think it would be a good tool to have in the toolbox, but maybe 
selectively applied.


We have one business customer (Broadband), every morning the "IT guy" 
will run a speedtest, and call in if it's not the 40mb he expects.  He 
don't bother to look at any of his other network traffic, any downloads 
that are going on, if there are actually any problems.  He only cares 
what speedtest shows, and if his screen doesn't show 40mb, then he's 
calling.  Every time, !EVERY TIME!, it's because his network traffic is 
using the rest of the connection, which we explain to him EVERY TIME, 
but this has been his operating procedure for the last 3 years.  "Hey 
guys, speeds are slow this morning, you need to check it and fix it."


On 11/5/2019 9:30 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


If you sell by speed tiers, I think speedtest.net can actually be your 
friend, and you don’t want to doctor the results. If the guy on a 10 
Mbps plan is complaining his Internet is slow because he can’t watch 5 
HD streams simultaneously, it helps to show him “you’re getting what 
you’re paying for”. Then you can maybe upsell him to a higher speed tier.


If he’s downloading a 150 GB Xbox game, your tech support is going to 
have to educate him about restricting the hours that game consoles can 
do downloads.  Making speedtest.net results look better isn’t going to 
avoid that, in fact it may make that more difficult.  The effort might 
be better spent finding a way to deprioritize software downloads, so 
people can watch video or pay games while new games are downloading.


If you sell best effort “up to” speeds, the answer may be different.

*From:*AF  *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 5, 2019 8:46 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

If I'm being honest, it's partly a failure on the sales end to manage 
expectations on wireless ("up to 50mbps" etc), and partly a failure of 
tech support to manage the conversation. IMO they need to not let the 
customer focus on a speed test result and instead prompt them to talk 
about what their actual problems are. Whether the speed test says 10 
meg or 50 meg has no bearing on the fact that you suck of Call of Duty 
or that your VPN to the office doesn't want to connect this morning.


I think the idea is just make the speed test show what they want to 
see and then we can move the conversation forward.  It strikes me as a 
viable but lazy and dishonest solution.  I'm trying hard to be open 
minded.


I appreciate all the thoughts on this.  Thanks everyone.

On 11/5/2019 8:01 AM, Daniel White wrote:

I've worked extensively with Sandvine and Saisei and this is a
topic that always comes up since it is fairly easy to implement
via those appliances (and easier to implement across multiple
speed testing sites).

I don't see it as evil on a best effort connection. Customers
typically are not likely to understand what the results mean and
the only congestion it masks is on your network (which you should
be aware of anyways). You can chalk it up to reasonable network
management practices, as the intent is to show what your
connection is capable of vs. what is available to you at that
moment.  Furthermore, unless the speedtest server is on your
network, sometimes the issue is on the net or with the server so
further impacting the results by giving the testing a low
availability on your network is further giving your customers the
wrong impression of your actual delivery.

By implementing something though - how many support tickets are
you potentially reducing?  How about customer churn?  If these are
issues for you is it because you have actual congestion on your
network?  Is hacking the response worthwhile from a technical
effort - and if your customers found out about it is it worthwhile
from a PR standpoint?

I usually end up somewhere in the it's cool to tinker with but of
limited value in the real world.  The PR fallout if your
competition finds out and uses it against you is probably more
damaging.

My 2 cents.

photograph



*Daniel White
*Co-Founder & Managing Director of Operations

*phone:* +1 (702) 470-2766
*direct:* +1 (702) 470-2770


Adam Moffett wrote on 11/4/19 12:32:

I can set a higher priority DSCP value on speedtest.net
traffic. I tested this on one SM and it works great.  On a
busy AP at 9:30pm I was getting speedtest results from
12-20mbps.  I set the speedtest traffic to DSCP 26 and enable
a "medium" priority channel and now it's 34mbps every single
time without fail (and at my data rate, frame size, etc that's
all I could ever hope for).

The question is: Would this be evil?

The feeling is that for some customers there's nothing
actually wrong except they run speedtest.net simultaneously as
their XBox downloads

Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

[Ken Hohhof]

If you sell by speed tiers, I think speedtest.net can actually be your friend, 
and you don’t want to doctor the results.  If the guy on a 10 Mbps plan is 
complaining his Internet is slow because he can’t watch 5 HD streams 
simultaneously, it helps to show him “you’re getting what you’re paying for”.  
Then you can maybe upsell him to a higher speed tier.

 

If he’s downloading a 150 GB Xbox game, your tech support is going to have to 
educate him about restricting the hours that game consoles can do downloads.  
Making speedtest.net results look better isn’t going to avoid that, in fact it 
may make that more difficult.  The effort might be better spent finding a way 
to deprioritize software downloads, so people can watch video or pay games 
while new games are downloading.

 

If you sell best effort “up to” speeds, the answer may be different.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 8:46 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

 

If I'm being honest, it's partly a failure on the sales end to manage 
expectations on wireless ("up to 50mbps" etc), and partly a failure of tech 
support to manage the conversation.  IMO they need to not let the customer 
focus on a speed test result and instead prompt them to talk about what their 
actual problems are. Whether the speed test says 10 meg or 50 meg has no 
bearing on the fact that you suck of Call of Duty or that your VPN to the 
office doesn't want to connect this morning.

I think the idea is just make the speed test show what they want to see and 
then we can move the conversation forward.  It strikes me as a viable but lazy 
and dishonest solution.  I'm trying hard to be open minded.

I appreciate all the thoughts on this.  Thanks everyone.

 

On 11/5/2019 8:01 AM, Daniel White wrote:

I've worked extensively with Sandvine and Saisei and this is a topic that 
always comes up since it is fairly easy to implement via those appliances (and 
easier to implement across multiple speed testing sites).

I don't see it as evil on a best effort connection.  Customers typically are 
not likely to understand what the results mean and the only congestion it masks 
is on your network (which you should be aware of anyways).  You can chalk it up 
to reasonable network management practices, as the intent is to show what your 
connection is capable of vs. what is available to you at that moment.  
Furthermore, unless the speedtest server is on your network, sometimes the 
issue is on the net or with the server so further impacting the results by 
giving the testing a low availability on your network is further giving your 
customers the wrong impression of your actual delivery.

By implementing something though - how many support tickets are you potentially 
reducing?  How about customer churn?  If these are issues for you is it because 
you have actual congestion on your network?  Is hacking the response worthwhile 
from a technical effort - and if your customers found out about it is it 
worthwhile from a PR standpoint?

I usually end up somewhere in the it's cool to tinker with but of limited value 
in the real world.  The PR fallout if your competition finds out and uses it 
against you is probably more damaging.

My 2 cents.

 


  

 


Daniel White
Co-Founder & Managing Director of Operations


phone: +1 (702) 470-2766
direct: +1 (702) 470-2770



Adam Moffett wrote on 11/4/19 12:32:



I can set a higher priority DSCP value on speedtest.net traffic. I tested this 
on one SM and it works great.  On a busy AP at 9:30pm I was getting speedtest 
results from 12-20mbps.  I set the speedtest traffic to DSCP 26 and enable a 
"medium" priority channel and now it's 34mbps every single time without fail 
(and at my data rate, frame size, etc that's all I could ever hope for). 

The question is: Would this be evil? 

The feeling is that for some customers there's nothing actually wrong except 
they run speedtest.net simultaneously as their XBox downloads a game and then 
call to report "slow" speeds.  The feeling is that it would be easier to just 
let them see a bigger speed test number than to educate them (and some will 
always refuse to be educated). 

The evil part is that it would mask an actual congestion problem. 

There's also a notion being tossed around the office that our competitors are 
already doing this.  I have no idea if they actually are, and I'm also not sure 
if I care what they're doing. 

-Adam 




 





-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

[Adam Moffett]

If I'm being honest, it's partly a failure on the sales end to manage 
expectations on wireless ("up to 50mbps" etc), and partly a failure of 
tech support to manage the conversation.  IMO they need to not let the 
customer focus on a speed test result and instead prompt them to talk 
about what their actual problems are. Whether the speed test says 10 meg 
or 50 meg has no bearing on the fact that you suck of Call of Duty or 
that your VPN to the office doesn't want to connect this morning.


I think the idea is just make the speed test show what they want to see 
and then we can move the conversation forward.  It strikes me as a 
viable but lazy and dishonest solution.  I'm trying hard to be open minded.


I appreciate all the thoughts on this.  Thanks everyone.


On 11/5/2019 8:01 AM, Daniel White wrote:
I've worked extensively with Sandvine and Saisei and this is a topic 
that always comes up since it is fairly easy to implement via those 
appliances (and easier to implement across multiple speed testing sites).


I don't see it as evil on a best effort connection.  Customers 
typically are not likely to understand what the results mean and the 
only congestion it masks is on your network (which you should be aware 
of anyways).  You can chalk it up to reasonable network management 
practices, as the intent is to show what your connection is capable of 
vs. what is available to you at that moment.  Furthermore, unless the 
speedtest server is on your network, sometimes the issue is on the net 
or with the server so further impacting the results by giving the 
testing a low availability on your network is further giving your 
customers the wrong impression of your actual delivery.


By implementing something though - how many support tickets are you 
potentially reducing?  How about customer churn?  If these are issues 
for you is it because you have actual congestion on your network?  Is 
hacking the response worthwhile from a technical effort - and if your 
customers found out about it is it worthwhile from a PR standpoint?


I usually end up somewhere in the it's cool to tinker with but of 
limited value in the real world.  The PR fallout if your competition 
finds out and uses it against you is probably more damaging.


My 2 cents.

photograph  
Daniel White
Co-Founder & Managing Director of Operations
phone: +1 (702) 470-2766
direct:+1 (702) 470-2770

Adam Moffett wrote on 11/4/19 12:32:
I can set a higher priority DSCP value on speedtest.net traffic. I 
tested this on one SM and it works great.  On a busy AP at 9:30pm I 
was getting speedtest results from 12-20mbps.  I set the speedtest 
traffic to DSCP 26 and enable a "medium" priority channel and now 
it's 34mbps every single time without fail (and at my data rate, 
frame size, etc that's all I could ever hope for).


The question is: Would this be evil?

The feeling is that for some customers there's nothing actually wrong 
except they run speedtest.net simultaneously as their XBox downloads 
a game and then call to report "slow" speeds.  The feeling is that it 
would be easier to just let them see a bigger speed test number than 
to educate them (and some will always refuse to be educated).


The evil part is that it would mask an actual congestion problem.

There's also a notion being tossed around the office that our 
competitors are already doing this.  I have no idea if they actually 
are, and I'm also not sure if I care what they're doing.


-Adam






-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

[Mathew Howard]

There are quite a few people that complain/open support tickets because
they're getting bad numbers on speed tests, even though it's having
absolutely no effect on anything they do (and that's usually because
they're running tests while they have Netflix running on six TVs)... I
imagine it would cut down on the number of tickets from that type of
customer a bit.

On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 7:02 AM Daniel White  wrote:

> I've worked extensively with Sandvine and Saisei and this is a topic that
> always comes up since it is fairly easy to implement via those appliances
> (and easier to implement across multiple speed testing sites).
>
> I don't see it as evil on a best effort connection.  Customers typically
> are not likely to understand what the results mean and the only congestion
> it masks is on your network (which you should be aware of anyways).  You
> can chalk it up to reasonable network management practices, as the intent
> is to show what your connection is capable of vs. what is available to you
> at that moment.  Furthermore, unless the speedtest server is on your
> network, sometimes the issue is on the net or with the server so further
> impacting the results by giving the testing a low availability on your
> network is further giving your customers the wrong impression of your
> actual delivery.
>
> By implementing something though - how many support tickets are you
> potentially reducing?  How about customer churn?  If these are issues for
> you is it because you have actual congestion on your network?  Is hacking
> the response worthwhile from a technical effort - and if your customers
> found out about it is it worthwhile from a PR standpoint?
>
> I usually end up somewhere in the it's cool to tinker with but of limited
> value in the real world.  The PR fallout if your competition finds out and
> uses it against you is probably more damaging.
>
> My 2 cents.
>
> [image: photograph]
> Daniel White
> Co-Founder & Managing Director of Operations
> phone: +1 (702) 470-2766
> direct: +1 (702) 470-2770
> Adam Moffett wrote on 11/4/19 12:32:
>
> I can set a higher priority DSCP value on speedtest.net traffic. I tested
> this on one SM and it works great.  On a busy AP at 9:30pm I was getting
> speedtest results from 12-20mbps.  I set the speedtest traffic to DSCP 26
> and enable a "medium" priority channel and now it's 34mbps every single
> time without fail (and at my data rate, frame size, etc that's all I could
> ever hope for).
>
> The question is: Would this be evil?
>
> The feeling is that for some customers there's nothing actually wrong
> except they run speedtest.net simultaneously as their XBox downloads a
> game and then call to report "slow" speeds.  The feeling is that it would
> be easier to just let them see a bigger speed test number than to educate
> them (and some will always refuse to be educated).
>
> The evil part is that it would mask an actual congestion problem.
>
> There's also a notion being tossed around the office that our competitors
> are already doing this.  I have no idea if they actually are, and I'm also
> not sure if I care what they're doing.
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

[Adam Moffett]

The short answer is you don't need to match every packet, just need to 
identify the IPs of speedtest.net servers.  Easy to do.



On 11/5/2019 6:15 AM, Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] wrote:

Howdy Adam,

How are you detecting/classifying the test data?  Isn't it all SSL?

Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-985-5912
http://www.brazoswifi.com

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, November 4, 2019 1:32 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

I can set a higher priority DSCP value on speedtest.net traffic. I tested this on one SM 
and it works great.  On a busy AP at 9:30pm I was getting speedtest results from 
12-20mbps.  I set the speedtest traffic to DSCP 26 and enable a "medium" 
priority channel and now it's 34mbps every single time without fail (and at my data rate, 
frame size, etc that's all I could ever hope for).

The question is: Would this be evil?

The feeling is that for some customers there's nothing actually wrong except they run 
speedtest.net simultaneously as their XBox downloads a game and then call to report 
"slow" speeds.  The feeling is that it would be easier to just let them see a 
bigger speed test number than to educate them (and some will always refuse to be 
educated).

The evil part is that it would mask an actual congestion problem.

There's also a notion being tossed around the office that our competitors are 
already doing this.  I have no idea if they actually are, and I'm also not sure 
if I care what they're doing.

-Adam



--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

[Daniel White]

I've worked extensively with Sandvine and Saisei and this is a topic 
that always comes up since it is fairly easy to implement via those 
appliances (and easier to implement across multiple speed testing sites).


I don't see it as evil on a best effort connection.  Customers typically 
are not likely to understand what the results mean and the only 
congestion it masks is on your network (which you should be aware of 
anyways).  You can chalk it up to reasonable network management 
practices, as the intent is to show what your connection is capable of 
vs. what is available to you at that moment.  Furthermore, unless the 
speedtest server is on your network, sometimes the issue is on the net 
or with the server so further impacting the results by giving the 
testing a low availability on your network is further giving your 
customers the wrong impression of your actual delivery.


By implementing something though - how many support tickets are you 
potentially reducing?  How about customer churn?  If these are issues 
for you is it because you have actual congestion on your network?  Is 
hacking the response worthwhile from a technical effort - and if your 
customers found out about it is it worthwhile from a PR standpoint?


I usually end up somewhere in the it's cool to tinker with but of 
limited value in the real world. The PR fallout if your competition 
finds out and uses it against you is probably more damaging.


My 2 cents.

photograph  
Daniel White
Co-Founder & Managing Director of Operations
phone: +1 (702) 470-2766
direct:+1 (702) 470-2770

Adam Moffett wrote on 11/4/19 12:32:
I can set a higher priority DSCP value on speedtest.net traffic. I 
tested this on one SM and it works great.  On a busy AP at 9:30pm I 
was getting speedtest results from 12-20mbps.  I set the speedtest 
traffic to DSCP 26 and enable a "medium" priority channel and now it's 
34mbps every single time without fail (and at my data rate, frame 
size, etc that's all I could ever hope for).


The question is: Would this be evil?

The feeling is that for some customers there's nothing actually wrong 
except they run speedtest.net simultaneously as their XBox downloads a 
game and then call to report "slow" speeds.  The feeling is that it 
would be easier to just let them see a bigger speed test number than 
to educate them (and some will always refuse to be educated).


The evil part is that it would mask an actual congestion problem.

There's also a notion being tossed around the office that our 
competitors are already doing this.  I have no idea if they actually 
are, and I'm also not sure if I care what they're doing.


-Adam





-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

[Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]]

Howdy Adam,

How are you detecting/classifying the test data?  Isn't it all SSL?

Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-985-5912
http://www.brazoswifi.com

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, November 4, 2019 1:32 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Priority on Speedtest.net

I can set a higher priority DSCP value on speedtest.net traffic. I tested this 
on one SM and it works great.  On a busy AP at 9:30pm I was getting speedtest 
results from 12-20mbps.  I set the speedtest traffic to DSCP 26 and enable a 
"medium" priority channel and now it's 34mbps every single time without fail 
(and at my data rate, frame size, etc that's all I could ever hope for).

The question is: Would this be evil?

The feeling is that for some customers there's nothing actually wrong except 
they run speedtest.net simultaneously as their XBox downloads a game and then 
call to report "slow" speeds.  The feeling is that it would be easier to just 
let them see a bigger speed test number than to educate them (and some will 
always refuse to be educated).

The evil part is that it would mask an actual congestion problem.

There's also a notion being tossed around the office that our competitors are 
already doing this.  I have no idea if they actually are, and I'm also not sure 
if I care what they're doing.

-Adam



--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com