date:20200129

Most of those are achievable by a small wisp.  But CLEC status is not so 
easy.

-Original Message- 
From: Mark Radabaugh

Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 3:02 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CAF-II lack of bidders?

CAF-II bidding is long since over, and RDOF isn’t out yet.   The rules for 
both programs, while available to WISP’s have significant hurdles that keep 
smaller entities from bidding on them - audited financials, letters of 
credit, PE sign off, telephone service offerings, CLEC status, etc.   While 
it’s theoretically possible to apply for these as a small WISP the reality 
is it’s very difficult unless you are a couple million/year company to start 
with.

Mark

On Jan 29, 2020, at 1:07 PM, Dev  wrote:

Got a question from an elected official type about why bids have been slow 
to come in for CAF-II, and also looking at RDOF and the satellite "lock 
 up”. I’m sure there are some opinions here, any you wish to relate?

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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

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Re: [AFMUG] CAF-II lack of bidders?

2020-01-29 Thread Mark Radabaugh

CAF-II bidding is long since over, and RDOF isn’t out yet.   The rules for both 
programs, while available to WISP’s have significant hurdles that keep smaller 
entities from bidding on them - audited financials, letters of credit, PE sign 
off, telephone service offerings, CLEC status, etc.   While it’s theoretically 
possible to apply for these as a small WISP the reality is it’s very difficult 
unless you are a couple million/year company to start with.

Mark

> On Jan 29, 2020, at 1:07 PM, Dev  wrote:
> 
> Got a question from an elected official type about why bids have been slow to 
> come in for CAF-II, and also looking at RDOF and the satellite "lock up”. I’m 
> sure there are some opinions here, any you wish to relate?
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 

-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Trencher

2020-01-29 Thread David Coudron

Ryan,

Would you be open to  a call about the Lineward?   We are pretty interested in 
one of those for fiber runs but are looking for real world usage experience.   
I talked with the company this morning and got a bunch of question answered but 
it is tough to know how much of the answers are sales and how much we can trust.

Regards,

David Coudron
From: AF  On Behalf Of Ryan Hill
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 1:57 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Trencher

Those make a hell of a mess.  Gotta stay true to the Lineward Vibratory Plow, 
causes very little ground disturbance




   [cid:image001.png@01D5D6B0.EA098BE0]
 Ryan Hill
   Operations Manager
 Amplex Internet
  (419)837-5015 Ext 1047
  www.amplex.net








On Jan 29, 2020, at 2:53 PM, Carl Peterson 
mailto:cpeter...@portnetworks.com>> wrote:

https://www.eztrench.com/trenchers/groundsaw-ez9100/

On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 1:52 PM Carl Peterson 
mailto:cpeter...@portnetworks.com>> wrote:
There is a deeper EZ-Trencher that goes down about 13"  We have one for our FL 
crew.  Works pretty well and cuts right through irrigation lines like they 
aren't even there.

On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 12:57 PM Josh Luthman 
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:
We got a Mini Sneaker (which is super old, old company, taken over by another, 
etc) and it seems great.  Paid 3k for it.  Have yet to do my fiber installs yet 
- soon!

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 8:51 AM David Coudron 
mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com>> wrote:
We got the BravePro brand rather than the EZ-Trencher as it was available 
locally and less expensive.   Seems to be about the same kind of equipment.   
It was $2000.

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200720688_200720688

Regards,

David Coudron

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Steven Kenney
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 7:33 AM
To: af mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Trencher

Looks good for a portable installer trencher for ethernet... any idea how much 
these cost?

Will need to look for something else for fiber though.

--
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)


From: "David Coudron" 
mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com>>
To: "af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 9:02:54 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Trencher

We use EZ-Trencher.   It works OK for the ethernet runs to the house, but as 
mentioned below, it doesn’t go very deep.   The really nice thing about it is 
that one guy can lift it into the back of a service van, so no need for ramps 
or trailers.   However the wire feed process can be a bit tricky, the Cat 6 
shielded cable we use can hang up every once and awhile.  One of the things we 
like about it is that we rigged up a wire pickup so that you could come back 
later and trench without having to take ends off the cable to feed it through.  
 The really daring guys don’t even unplug the cable.   Works pretty good, you 
just have to be careful.

From looking at the Lineward (and the Ditch Witch) I am guessing you could pull 
1” conduit pretty easily for fiber runs to houses.  Anyone using either for 
that?

Regards,

David Coudron
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Timothy Steele
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 7:24 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Trencher

why not an EZ-Trencher? or are you needing to go deeper than that?

On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 4:26 AM Steven Kenney 
mailto:st...@wavedirect.org>> wrote:
Looks about the size I was talking about.  Small enough to fit into a work van. 
 But powerful enough to do the job.

--
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)


From: "Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]" 
mailto:j...@brazoswifi.com>>
To: "af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 2:39:23 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Trencher

I think that is going to vary depending on how much you use it.
We have a Ditch Witch SX100.  Good little machine for 4-6” depth.  We have 
probably only run it 100 hours so far.
We also have a Ditch Witch 4010DD with the plow attachment.  It has about 2000 
hours on it and required a bit of work to get it back to good after purchase.

Overall, I think they are decent machines for what they do.

Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-985-5912
http://www.brazoswifi.com

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Steven Kenney
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 1:13 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Trencher

We are looking to buy a trencher.  The vibrating

[AFMUG] OT: Now there are ~~ 180




SpaceX got another 60 Starlink sats into orbit this morning. That brings 
the functional constellation to 180 sats. The first batch of 60 don't 
count since they are not equipped to communicate with each other. 
Various reports say either 300 or 400 sats are required to get a basic 
minimal functioning system. At the rate they're going, this may mean 
they will have achieved their goal in another couple of months (they 
want to do 2 launches per month).


https://www.space.com/spacex-starlink-3-satellites-launch-rocket-landing-success.html

--

bp



--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Trencher

2020-01-29 Thread Ryan Hill

Those make a hell of a mess.  Gotta stay true to the Lineward Vibratory Plow, 
causes very little ground disturbance



  
 Ryan Hill 
   Operations Manager
 Amplex Internet
  (419)837-5015 Ext 1047 
  www.amplex.net 






> On Jan 29, 2020, at 2:53 PM, Carl Peterson  wrote:
> 
> https://www.eztrench.com/trenchers/groundsaw-ez9100/ 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 1:52 PM Carl Peterson  > wrote:
> There is a deeper EZ-Trencher that goes down about 13"  We have one for our 
> FL crew.  Works pretty well and cuts right through irrigation lines like they 
> aren't even there. 
> 
> On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 12:57 PM Josh Luthman  > wrote:
> We got a Mini Sneaker (which is super old, old company, taken over by 
> another, etc) and it seems great.  Paid 3k for it.  Have yet to do my fiber 
> installs yet - soon!
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 8:51 AM David Coudron  > wrote:
> We got the BravePro brand rather than the EZ-Trencher as it was available 
> locally and less expensive.   Seems to be about the same kind of equipment.   
> It was $2000.
> 
>  
> 
> https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200720688_200720688 
> 
>  
> 
> Regards,
> 
>  
> 
> David Coudron
> 
>  
> 
> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf 
> Of Steven Kenney
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 7:33 AM
> To: af mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Trencher
> 
>  
> 
> Looks good for a portable installer trencher for ethernet... any idea how 
> much these cost?
> 
>  
> 
> Will need to look for something else for fiber though. 
> 
>  
> 
> -- 
> Steven Kenney
> Network Operations Manager
> WaveDirect Telecommunications
> http://www.wavedirect.net 
> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
> 
>  
> 
> From: "David Coudron"  >
> To: "af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 9:02:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Trencher
> 
>  
> 
> We use EZ-Trencher.   It works OK for the ethernet runs to the house, but as 
> mentioned below, it doesn’t go very deep.   The really nice thing about it is 
> that one guy can lift it into the back of a service van, so no need for ramps 
> or trailers.   However the wire feed process can be a bit tricky, the Cat 6 
> shielded cable we use can hang up every once and awhile.  One of the things 
> we like about it is that we rigged up a wire pickup so that you could come 
> back later and trench without having to take ends off the cable to feed it 
> through.   The really daring guys don’t even unplug the cable.   Works pretty 
> good, you just have to be careful.  
> 
>  
> 
> From looking at the Lineward (and the Ditch Witch) I am guessing you could 
> pull 1” conduit pretty easily for fiber runs to houses.  Anyone using either 
> for that?
> 
>  
> 
> Regards,
> 
>  
> 
> David Coudron
> 
> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf 
> Of Timothy Steele
> Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 7:24 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  >
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Trencher
> 
>  
> 
> why not an EZ-Trencher? or are you needing to go deeper than that?
> 
>  
> 
> On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 4:26 AM Steven Kenney  > wrote:
> 
> Looks about the size I was talking about.  Small enough to fit into a work 
> van.  But powerful enough to do the job. 
> 
>  
> 
> -- 
> Steven Kenney
> Network Operations Manager
> WaveDirect Telecommunications
> http://www.wavedirect.net 
> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
> 
>  
> 
> From: "Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]"  >
> To: "af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 2:39:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Trencher
> 
>  
> 
> I think that is going to vary depending on how much you use it.
> 
> We have a Ditch Witch SX100.  Good little machine for 4-6” depth.  We have 
> probably only run it 100 hours so far.
> We also have a Ditch Witch 4010DD with the plow attachment.  It has about 
> 2000 hours on it and required a bit of work to get it back to good after 
> purchase.
> 
> Overall, I think they are decent machines for what they do.
> 
>  
> 
> Jim Bouse
> Owner - Brazos WiFi
> 979-985-5912
> http://www.brazoswifi.com 
>  
> 
> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf 
> Of Steven Kenney
> Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 1:13 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com 
> Subject: [AFMUG] Trencher
> 
>  
> 
> We are looking to buy a trencher.  The vibrating type... however from what 
> we've been told by many people they

Re: [AFMUG] Trencher

2020-01-29 Thread Carl Peterson

https://www.eztrench.com/trenchers/groundsaw-ez9100/

On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 1:52 PM Carl Peterson 
wrote:

> There is a deeper EZ-Trencher that goes down about 13"  We have one for
> our FL crew.  Works pretty well and cuts right through irrigation lines
> like they aren't even there.
>
> On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 12:57 PM Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
>> We got a Mini Sneaker (which is super old, old company, taken over by
>> another, etc) and it seems great.  Paid 3k for it.  Have yet to do my fiber
>> installs yet - soon!
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 8:51 AM David Coudron <
>> david.coud...@advantenon.com> wrote:
>>
>>> We got the BravePro brand rather than the EZ-Trencher as it was
>>> available locally and less expensive.   Seems to be about the same kind of
>>> equipment.   It was $2000.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200720688_200720688
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> David Coudron
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Steven Kenney
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 29, 2020 7:33 AM
>>> *To:* af 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Trencher
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Looks good for a portable installer trencher for ethernet... any idea
>>> how much these cost?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Will need to look for something else for fiber though.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Steven Kenney
>>> Network Operations Manager
>>> WaveDirect Telecommunications
>>> http://www.wavedirect.net
>>> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> *From: *"David Coudron" 
>>> *To: *"af" 
>>> *Sent: *Tuesday, January 28, 2020 9:02:54 PM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Trencher
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We use EZ-Trencher.   It works OK for the ethernet runs to the house,
>>> but as mentioned below, it doesn’t go very deep.   The really nice thing
>>> about it is that one guy can lift it into the back of a service van, so no
>>> need for ramps or trailers.   However the wire feed process can be a bit
>>> tricky, the Cat 6 shielded cable we use can hang up every once and awhile.
>>> One of the things we like about it is that we rigged up a wire pickup so
>>> that you could come back later and trench without having to take ends off
>>> the cable to feed it through.   The really daring guys don’t even unplug
>>> the cable.   Works pretty good, you just have to be careful.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From looking at the Lineward (and the Ditch Witch) I am guessing you
>>> could pull 1” conduit pretty easily for fiber runs to houses.  Anyone using
>>> either for that?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> David Coudron
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Timothy Steele
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 28, 2020 7:24 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Trencher
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> why not an EZ-Trencher? or are you needing to go deeper than that?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 4:26 AM Steven Kenney 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Looks about the size I was talking about.  Small enough to fit into a
>>> work van.  But powerful enough to do the job.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Steven Kenney
>>> Network Operations Manager
>>> WaveDirect Telecommunications
>>> http://www.wavedirect.net
>>> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> *From: *"Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]" 
>>> *To: *"af" 
>>> *Sent: *Tuesday, January 28, 2020 2:39:23 PM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Trencher
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I think that is going to vary depending on how much you use it.
>>>
>>> We have a Ditch Witch SX100.  Good little machine for 4-6” depth.  We
>>> have probably only run it 100 hours so far.
>>> We also have a Ditch Witch 4010DD with the plow attachment.  It has
>>> about 2000 hours on it and required a bit of work to get it back to good
>>> after purchase.
>>>
>>> Overall, I think they are decent machines for what they do.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jim Bouse
>>> Owner - Brazos WiFi
>>> 979-985-5912
>>> http://www.brazoswifi.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steven Kenney
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 28, 2020 1:13 PM
>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Trencher
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We are looking to buy a trencher.  The vibrating type... however from
>>> what we've been told by many people they require constant maintenance
>>> because of the vibrations.  Things are always falling apart.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Has anyone had any good luck with trenchers that are well built and will
>>> last more than a few years? If so which brand?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Steven Kenney
>>> Network Operations Manager
>>> WaveDirect Telecommunications
>>> http://www.wavedirect.net
>>> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] Trencher

2020-01-29 Thread Carl Peterson

There is a deeper EZ-Trencher that goes down about 13"  We have one for our
FL crew.  Works pretty well and cuts right through irrigation lines like
they aren't even there.

On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 12:57 PM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> We got a Mini Sneaker (which is super old, old company, taken over by
> another, etc) and it seems great.  Paid 3k for it.  Have yet to do my fiber
> installs yet - soon!
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 8:51 AM David Coudron <
> david.coud...@advantenon.com> wrote:
>
>> We got the BravePro brand rather than the EZ-Trencher as it was available
>> locally and less expensive.   Seems to be about the same kind of
>> equipment.   It was $2000.
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200720688_200720688
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> David Coudron
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Steven Kenney
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 29, 2020 7:33 AM
>> *To:* af 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Trencher
>>
>>
>>
>> Looks good for a portable installer trencher for ethernet... any idea how
>> much these cost?
>>
>>
>>
>> Will need to look for something else for fiber though.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Steven Kenney
>> Network Operations Manager
>> WaveDirect Telecommunications
>> http://www.wavedirect.net
>> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *From: *"David Coudron" 
>> *To: *"af" 
>> *Sent: *Tuesday, January 28, 2020 9:02:54 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Trencher
>>
>>
>>
>> We use EZ-Trencher.   It works OK for the ethernet runs to the house, but
>> as mentioned below, it doesn’t go very deep.   The really nice thing about
>> it is that one guy can lift it into the back of a service van, so no need
>> for ramps or trailers.   However the wire feed process can be a bit tricky,
>> the Cat 6 shielded cable we use can hang up every once and awhile.  One of
>> the things we like about it is that we rigged up a wire pickup so that you
>> could come back later and trench without having to take ends off the cable
>> to feed it through.   The really daring guys don’t even unplug the cable.
>> Works pretty good, you just have to be careful.
>>
>>
>>
>> From looking at the Lineward (and the Ditch Witch) I am guessing you
>> could pull 1” conduit pretty easily for fiber runs to houses.  Anyone using
>> either for that?
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> David Coudron
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Timothy Steele
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 28, 2020 7:24 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Trencher
>>
>>
>>
>> why not an EZ-Trencher? or are you needing to go deeper than that?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 4:26 AM Steven Kenney 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Looks about the size I was talking about.  Small enough to fit into a
>> work van.  But powerful enough to do the job.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Steven Kenney
>> Network Operations Manager
>> WaveDirect Telecommunications
>> http://www.wavedirect.net
>> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *From: *"Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]" 
>> *To: *"af" 
>> *Sent: *Tuesday, January 28, 2020 2:39:23 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Trencher
>>
>>
>>
>> I think that is going to vary depending on how much you use it.
>>
>> We have a Ditch Witch SX100.  Good little machine for 4-6” depth.  We
>> have probably only run it 100 hours so far.
>> We also have a Ditch Witch 4010DD with the plow attachment.  It has about
>> 2000 hours on it and required a bit of work to get it back to good after
>> purchase.
>>
>> Overall, I think they are decent machines for what they do.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jim Bouse
>> Owner - Brazos WiFi
>> 979-985-5912
>> http://www.brazoswifi.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steven Kenney
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 28, 2020 1:13 PM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Trencher
>>
>>
>>
>> We are looking to buy a trencher.  The vibrating type... however from
>> what we've been told by many people they require constant maintenance
>> because of the vibrations.  Things are always falling apart.
>>
>>
>>
>> Has anyone had any good luck with trenchers that are well built and will
>> last more than a few years? If so which brand?
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Steven Kenney
>> Network Operations Manager
>> WaveDirect Telecommunications
>> http://www.wavedirect.net
>> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 

Carl Peterson

*PORT NETWORKS*

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD

Re: [AFMUG] Calix (was RE: Google/Nest WiFi speedtest)

Well, we are probably not one of their traditional channels.  I would think 
they would appoint someone as the WISP sales manager.  

From: Tushar Patel 
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 12:33 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix (was RE: Google/Nest WiFi speedtest)

Chuck,

Maybe you get special consideration! But my experience has been different.

I had requested a quote at WISPAPALOOSA, never heard back from them, Finally I 
wanted to make decision so I filled out a online form on 1/20, I got 1 email 
about they will be in touch, I left a message on the phone next day, nothing 
after that. 

Just before I posted here I did send them email stating them how nobody was 
getting back to me, immediately after that email I did get a call and someone 
from Calix who is on this list also got back to me. I finally have a quote from 
them.

Anyway all is good now, hope I will have better experience/communication going 
forward.

Thanks,

Tushar

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 5:53 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix (was RE: Google/Nest WiFi speedtest)

Wow that is odd.  Normally Calix is right on the ball with us.  

From: Tushar Patel 

Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 9:05 AM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix (was RE: Google/Nest WiFi speedtest)

My experience with Calix sales people is horrendous!!

They don’t return calls or email  weeks at a time!! 

Can’t even get a quote out of this guys!!

I hope that is not how their supports works too.

How can you do business with a company who can’t even give a quote and what I 
have heard is everyone gets different price too!!

Tushar

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Hill
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 7:24 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix (was RE: Google/Nest WiFi speedtest)

Mike’s our Sales Rep, he relocated to Kentucky.  I can share your contact info 
with him if you’d like

 Ryan Hill 

   Operations Manager

 Amplex Internet

  (419)837-5015 Ext 1047 

  www.amplex.net

  On Jan 27, 2020, at 6:38 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

  Yeah, Mike did live in Naperville. I forget at times that there's a cluster 
of people on the list that know where Naperville is.

  I've worked with Liz as well. I've attached her information here.

  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP

--

  From: "Ken Hohhof" 
  To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
  Sent: Monday, January 27, 2020 5:21:48 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix (was RE: Google/Nest WiFi speedtest)

  I remember talking to a Mike Carpinelli at a WISPAmerica, I’d have to dig out 
his card, but I think you’re right he lived in Naperville or something.  But I 
also remember various “team” members named Liz, Brian, Scott.  I don’t remember 
who did what.  I think Liz, maybe last name Christie, was Great Lakes region 
manager?  But they should be easy enough to contact and find out who to deal 
with.  First step: NDA.

  From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
  Sent: Monday, January 27, 2020 12:09 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix (was RE: Google/Nest WiFi speedtest)

  Hrm, he must have moved. He used to live not far from me.

  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP

--

  From: "Josh Luthman" 
  To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
  Sent: Monday, January 27, 2020 11:21:01 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix (was RE: Google/Nest WiFi speedtest)

  That's my guy for Ohio.  He lives in Kentucky.

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 9:13 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

Mike's my regional guy. He's probably yours too.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP

From: "Jason McKemie" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Friday, January 24, 2020 2:52:12 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix (was RE: Google/Nest WiFi speedtest)

Gotcha, thanks.

So you are buying your hardware direct from Calix?  Do you have a contact 
there? 

On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 1:59 PM Darin Steffl  
wrote:

  Calix used to be an add-on at $50 upfront and $10 per month. We've since 
increased all our plans $10 per month and now the

Re: [AFMUG] Calix (was RE: Google/Nest WiFi speedtest)

2020-01-29 Thread Tushar Patel

Chuck,

 

Maybe you get special consideration! But my experience has been different.

 

I had requested a quote at WISPAPALOOSA, never heard back from them, Finally I 
wanted to make decision so I filled out a online form on 1/20, I got 1 email 
about they will be in touch, I left a message on the phone next day, nothing 
after that. 

 

Just before I posted here I did send them email stating them how nobody was 
getting back to me, immediately after that email I did get a call and someone 
from Calix who is on this list also got back to me. I finally have a quote from 
them.

 

Anyway all is good now, hope I will have better experience/communication going 
forward.

 

Thanks,

Tushar

 

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 5:53 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix (was RE: Google/Nest WiFi speedtest)

 

Wow that is odd.  Normally Calix is right on the ball with us.  

 

From: Tushar Patel 

Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 9:05 AM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix (was RE: Google/Nest WiFi speedtest)

 

My experience with Calix sales people is horrendous!!

 

They don’t return calls or email  weeks at a time!! 

 

Can’t even get a quote out of this guys!!

 

I hope that is not how their supports works too.

 

How can you do business with a company who can’t even give a quote and what I 
have heard is everyone gets different price too!!

 

Tushar

 

From: AF [  mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On 
Behalf Of Ryan Hill
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 7:24 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <  af@af.afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix (was RE: Google/Nest WiFi speedtest)

 

Mike’s our Sales Rep, he relocated to Kentucky.  I can share your contact info 
with him if you’d like



 


  

 Ryan Hill 

   Operations Manager

 Amplex Internet

  (419)837-5015 Ext 1047 

    www.amplex.net

 

 

 





 

On Jan 27, 2020, at 6:38 PM, Mike Hammett mailto:af...@ics-il.net> > wrote:

 

Yeah, Mike did live in Naperville. I forget at times that there's a cluster of 
people on the list that know where Naperville is.

I've worked with Liz as well. I've attached her information here.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 





  _  


From: "Ken Hohhof" <  af...@kwisp.com>
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <  
af@af.afmug.com>
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2020 5:21:48 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix (was RE: Google/Nest WiFi speedtest)

I remember talking to a Mike Carpinelli at a WISPAmerica, I’d have to dig out 
his card, but I think you’re right he lived in Naperville or something.  But I 
also remember various “team” members named Liz, Brian, Scott.  I don’t remember 
who did what.  I think Liz, maybe last name Christie, was Great Lakes region 
manager?  But they should be easy enough to contact and find out who to deal 
with.  First step: NDA.

 

From: AF <  af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf 
Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2020 12:09 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <  af@af.afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix (was RE: Google/Nest WiFi speedtest)

 

Hrm, he must have moved. He used to live not far from me.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 





  _  


From: "Josh Luthman" <  
j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <  
af@af.afmug.com>
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2020 11:21:01 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix (was RE: Google/Nest WiFi speedtest)

Re: [AFMUG] Calix (was RE: Google/Nest WiFi speedtest)

2020-01-29 Thread Josh Luthman

They've been great to me.  I've only ordered a couple of boxes.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 11:30 AM Cassidy B. Larson  wrote:

> Just like all other vendors, your price is based on the QTY you order.
> You have more leverage to get better pricing if you order more QTY.
>
> We ordered 1000 Calix units last year and got a GREAT deal. Then they
> allowed us to spread out shipment delivery to 100 a month.
>
> We do the same thing with our radio vendors too.  It gives them months to
> know what kind of stock they need to keep on hand to fulfill our orders.
>
>
>
> On Jan 28, 2020, at 9:05 AM, Tushar Patel  wrote:
>
> My experience with Calix sales people is horrendous!!
>
> They don’t return calls or email  weeks at a time!!
>
> Can’t even get a quote out of this guys!!
>
> I hope that is not how their supports works too.
>
> How can you do business with a company who can’t even give a quote and
> what I have heard is everyone gets different price too!!
>
> Tushar
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Ryan Hill
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 28, 2020 7:24 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Calix (was RE: Google/Nest WiFi speedtest)
>
> Mike’s our Sales Rep, he relocated to Kentucky.  I can share your contact
> info with him if you’d like
>
>
>
>
>
> * Ryan Hill *
>Operations Manager
>  *Amplex I**nternet*
>   (419)837-5015 Ext 1047
>   www.amplex.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jan 27, 2020, at 6:38 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>
> Yeah, Mike did live in Naperville. I forget at times that there's a
> cluster of people on the list that know where Naperville is.
>
> I've worked with Liz as well. I've attached her information here.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Monday, January 27, 2020 5:21:48 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Calix (was RE: Google/Nest WiFi speedtest)
> I remember talking to a Mike Carpinelli at a WISPAmerica, I’d have to dig
> out his card, but I think you’re right he lived in Naperville or
> something.  But I also remember various “team” members named Liz, Brian,
> Scott.  I don’t remember who did what.  I think Liz, maybe last name
> Christie, was Great Lakes region manager?  But they should be easy enough
> to contact and find out who to deal with.  First step: NDA.
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Monday, January 27, 2020 12:09 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Calix (was RE: Google/Nest WiFi speedtest)
>
>
> Hrm, he must have moved. He used to live not far from me.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Josh Luthman" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Monday, January 27, 2020 11:21:01 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Calix (was RE: Google/Nest WiFi speedtest)
> That's my guy for Ohio.  He lives in Kentucky.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 9:13 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
> Mike's my regional guy. He's probably yours too.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers

Re: [AFMUG] Trencher

2020-01-29 Thread Josh Luthman

We got a Mini Sneaker (which is super old, old company, taken over by
another, etc) and it seems great.  Paid 3k for it.  Have yet to do my fiber
installs yet - soon!

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 8:51 AM David Coudron 
wrote:

> We got the BravePro brand rather than the EZ-Trencher as it was available
> locally and less expensive.   Seems to be about the same kind of
> equipment.   It was $2000.
>
>
>
> https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200720688_200720688
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> David Coudron
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Steven Kenney
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 29, 2020 7:33 AM
> *To:* af 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Trencher
>
>
>
> Looks good for a portable installer trencher for ethernet... any idea how
> much these cost?
>
>
>
> Will need to look for something else for fiber though.
>
>
>
> --
> Steven Kenney
> Network Operations Manager
> WaveDirect Telecommunications
> http://www.wavedirect.net
> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>
>
> --
>
> *From: *"David Coudron" 
> *To: *"af" 
> *Sent: *Tuesday, January 28, 2020 9:02:54 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Trencher
>
>
>
> We use EZ-Trencher.   It works OK for the ethernet runs to the house, but
> as mentioned below, it doesn’t go very deep.   The really nice thing about
> it is that one guy can lift it into the back of a service van, so no need
> for ramps or trailers.   However the wire feed process can be a bit tricky,
> the Cat 6 shielded cable we use can hang up every once and awhile.  One of
> the things we like about it is that we rigged up a wire pickup so that you
> could come back later and trench without having to take ends off the cable
> to feed it through.   The really daring guys don’t even unplug the cable.
> Works pretty good, you just have to be careful.
>
>
>
> From looking at the Lineward (and the Ditch Witch) I am guessing you could
> pull 1” conduit pretty easily for fiber runs to houses.  Anyone using
> either for that?
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> David Coudron
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Timothy Steele
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 28, 2020 7:24 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Trencher
>
>
>
> why not an EZ-Trencher? or are you needing to go deeper than that?
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 4:26 AM Steven Kenney 
> wrote:
>
> Looks about the size I was talking about.  Small enough to fit into a work
> van.  But powerful enough to do the job.
>
>
>
> --
> Steven Kenney
> Network Operations Manager
> WaveDirect Telecommunications
> http://www.wavedirect.net
> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>
>
> --
>
> *From: *"Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]" 
> *To: *"af" 
> *Sent: *Tuesday, January 28, 2020 2:39:23 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Trencher
>
>
>
> I think that is going to vary depending on how much you use it.
>
> We have a Ditch Witch SX100.  Good little machine for 4-6” depth.  We have
> probably only run it 100 hours so far.
> We also have a Ditch Witch 4010DD with the plow attachment.  It has about
> 2000 hours on it and required a bit of work to get it back to good after
> purchase.
>
> Overall, I think they are decent machines for what they do.
>
>
>
> Jim Bouse
> Owner - Brazos WiFi
> 979-985-5912
> http://www.brazoswifi.com
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steven Kenney
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 28, 2020 1:13 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Trencher
>
>
>
> We are looking to buy a trencher.  The vibrating type... however from what
> we've been told by many people they require constant maintenance because of
> the vibrations.  Things are always falling apart.
>
>
>
> Has anyone had any good luck with trenchers that are well built and will
> last more than a few years? If so which brand?
>
>
>
> --
> Steven Kenney
> Network Operations Manager
> WaveDirect Telecommunications
> http://www.wavedirect.net
> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape

Make it a contest.  Who can suck the most rum through a cat 5 cable in 30 
seconds.  

From: g...@shireeninc.com 
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 11:32 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape

ATTENTION /  ATTENTION

If your tests include any of these liquid compositions other than water, I must 
announce our disclaimer of our product.  

However, I would more than happy to participate in field testing your 
application at the upcoming Wispa event in Dallas.  

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 1:21 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape

Tomato juice would be a no-no. Better to use citrus; like lime or lemon. Gin & 
tonic would work (with a little lime in it).

bp On 1/29/2020 10:13 AM, Steve Jones wrote:

  does it have to be water, or would something like a bloody mary work?

  On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 11:56 AM  wrote:

Your is a much better test than trying to first suck water through it like 
a straw, which has been done…..and then proven to sustain a PRESSURE test by 
trying to blow bubbles on both ends…  we are very serious about our technology. 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Eric Muehleisen
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 12:34 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape

Same. We attached a funnel full of water to the end of a 2ft chuck of 
DC-1042. Left it for 24 hours expecting water to drip out the bottom. Never 
did. We started using it exclusively on our towers for the last 2 years. Not a 
single issue.

On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 11:29 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

  I remember dropping a chunk of that tape into a glass of water and 
  waiting for something to happen.  Maybe I didn't wait long enough, but 
  nothing happened.

  On 1/29/2020 11:59 AM, g...@shireeninc.com wrote:
  > The chemical reaction is pretty simple
  > When chemical compound  of 2 Hydrogen and 1 Oxygen atoms are present and
  > come in contact to our (Non Caustic, Non-Woven, Super Swelling Polyester
  > Bonding Material*) better known as "No-conductive water blocking tape"
  >
  > The following parametric occurs:
  >
  > Thickness [mm]0.2 0.25
  > Weigh[g/m2]   80  90
  > Swelling height [mm]  ?12 ?14
  > Swelling speed[mm/1st min]?10 ?10
  > Tensile strength[N/15mm]  ?45 ?50
  >
  > Because of our Jacket composition, no change in OD has been observed.
  > Because of the non-causticity, no damage has been observed to the 4 
pairs
  > insulation nor the solid 24 and 23 AWG copper core itself
  >
  >
  > Thanks for your attention.
  >
  >
  > -Original Message-
  > From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt
  > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 9:56 AM
  > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape
  >
  > So how does dry tape work anyway?  I assumed it had some dry powder type
  > glue in it and when exposed to water absorbed and cured blocking further
  > passage of water?  But not at all sure?
  >
  > --
  > AF mailing list
  > AF@af.afmug.com
  > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
  >
  >

  -- 
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  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] Waveguide Makes a Comeback in 5G—for Antennas | Electronic Design

I wonder if they will have downtilt being at 30 feet or higher.  The reports I 
have read so far say you have to be looking at a base station to get the 
benefit of the MM signal and moving a foot in any direction can make it stop 
working.  Seems like marketing hype to me.  

From: Brian Webster 
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 11:12 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Waveguide Makes a Comeback in 5G—for Antennas | Electronic 
Design

The problem with gain at those frequencies is going to be the maximum 
permissible exposure power levels for uncontrolled public spaces. Handsets with 
a lot of gain near the eyes will exceed those power levels in short order. 
Nobody seems to be talking about that, antenna height needs to be above 30 feet 
I believe to not be in what is considered uncontrolled public access space. 
Still not seeing the logic with the thought process of using MM wave in 
handsets given those constraints.

Thank you,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 11:26 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Waveguide Makes a Comeback in 5G—for Antennas | Electronic 
Design

Very flat pancake pattern with that much gain in an omni.  

From: Cameron Crum 

Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 8:41 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Waveguide Makes a Comeback in 5G—for Antennas | Electronic 
Design

They said about 12 dBi gain from that omni which is pretty impressive for an 
omni. I guess if you have enough of them, it won't matter too much. I'm 
guessing these go with little pico-pops in an indoor type environment. 

On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 9:28 AM  wrote:

  The one on the right looks like a dielectrically loaded V pol slot antenna.  
(On slots, the slot direction is opposite the polarization).  Similar to a 
collinear coax design.  

  Narrow V pattern, low gain, mm waves, people moving around with super low 
gain antennas in their phones.  Am I the only one that does not think this will 
work well?

  From: Cameron Crum 

  Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 8:05 AM

  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Waveguide Makes a Comeback in 5G—for Antennas | 
Electronic Design

  Very cool. The antennas I made for my wisp years ago were all slotted wave 
guides and 1 horn. Easy to make, simple materials, little to nothing to fail. 
These are obviously more advanced combining, those with active components, and 
other techniques, but it's cool to see it.  

  On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 8:07 AM Jaime Solorza  
wrote:

https://www.electronicdesign.com/industrial-automation/article/21121326/waveguide-makes-a-comeback-in-5gfor-antennas

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Re: [AFMUG] CAF-II lack of bidders?

We had an opportunity to bid on CAF via the New York State BPO in 2018.  
Nobody involved like the strings attached.  At this point I can't 
remember what the "strings" were, just that they sounded like a nuisance.


Perhaps the bigger issue was that the public contributions seemed to be 
structured over a 10 year period.  A 10 year payback means it's fiber 
optic or nothingperhaps that's by design.  More importantly, the 
private equity partners were not happy with the idea of a >10 year 
return.  We ended up building only in areas with NY State broadband 
funding and skipping around the CAF areas.


I can put you in touch with people who are still involved in that 
project if you hit me offlist.


Frankly the way the NY BPO has structured their current program is a lot 
more attractive than CAF.  So attractive that they've overwhelmed the 
capacity of engineering, make-ready, and line contractors with the 
amount of broadband construction ongoing in NY State for the past 
several years --I mean that in a good way. Everyone is struggling to 
build more and build faster into rural markets because NY BPO made it 
viable for them to do so.  You might talk to them about what they've done.


-Adam Moffett



On 1/29/2020 1:07 PM, Dev wrote:

Got a question from an elected official type about why bids have been slow to come 
in for CAF-II, and also looking at RDOF and the satellite "lock up”. I’m sure 
there are some opinions here, any you wish to relate?


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Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape

ATTENTION /  ATTENTION

If your tests include any of these liquid compositions other than water, I must 
announce our disclaimer of our product.  

However, I would more than happy to participate in field testing your 
application at the upcoming Wispa event in Dallas.  

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 1:21 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape

Tomato juice would be a no-no. Better to use citrus; like lime or lemon. Gin & 
tonic would work (with a little lime in it).

bp

On 1/29/2020 10:13 AM, Steve Jones wrote:

does it have to be water, or would something like a bloody mary work?

On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 11:56 AM mailto:g...@shireeninc.com> > wrote:

Your is a much better test than trying to first suck water through it like a 
straw, which has been done…..and then proven to sustain a PRESSURE test by 
trying to blow bubbles on both ends…  we are very serious about our technology. 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Eric Muehleisen
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 12:34 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape

Same. We attached a funnel full of water to the end of a 2ft chuck of DC-1042. 
Left it for 24 hours expecting water to drip out the bottom. Never did. We 
started using it exclusively on our towers for the last 2 years. Not a single 
issue.

On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 11:29 AM Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I remember dropping a chunk of that tape into a glass of water and 
waiting for something to happen.  Maybe I didn't wait long enough, but 
nothing happened.

On 1/29/2020 11:59 AM, g...@shireeninc.com   wrote:
> The chemical reaction is pretty simple
> When chemical compound  of 2 Hydrogen and 1 Oxygen atoms are present and
> come in contact to our (Non Caustic, Non-Woven, Super Swelling Polyester
> Bonding Material*) better known as "No-conductive water blocking tape"
>
> The following parametric occurs:
>
> Thickness [mm]0.2 0.25
> Weigh[g/m2]   80  90
> Swelling height [mm]  ?12 ?14
> Swelling speed[mm/1st min]?10 ?10
> Tensile strength[N/15mm]  ?45 ?50
>
> Because of our Jacket composition, no change in OD has been observed.
> Because of the non-causticity, no damage has been observed to the 4 pairs
> insulation nor the solid 24 and 23 AWG copper core itself
>
>
> Thanks for your attention.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On 
> Behalf Of Matt
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 9:56 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group   >
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape
>
> So how does dry tape work anyway?  I assumed it had some dry powder type
> glue in it and when exposed to water absorbed and cured blocking further
> passage of water?  But not at all sure?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com  
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>

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Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape

like lime, bar syrup, triple sec, and tequila?


On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 12:21 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> Tomato juice would be a no-no. Better to use citrus; like lime or lemon.
> Gin & tonic would work (with a little lime in it).
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 1/29/2020 10:13 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> does it have to be water, or would something like a bloody mary work?
>
> On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 11:56 AM  wrote:
>
>> Your is a much better test than trying to first suck water through it
>> like a straw, which has been done…..and then proven to sustain a PRESSURE
>> test by trying to blow bubbles on both ends…  we are very serious about our
>> technology.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Eric Muehleisen
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 29, 2020 12:34 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape
>>
>>
>>
>> Same. We attached a funnel full of water to the end of a 2ft chuck of
>> DC-1042. Left it for 24 hours expecting water to drip out the bottom. Never
>> did. We started using it exclusively on our towers for the last 2 years.
>> Not a single issue.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 11:29 AM Adam Moffett 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I remember dropping a chunk of that tape into a glass of water and
>> waiting for something to happen.  Maybe I didn't wait long enough, but
>> nothing happened.
>>
>>
>> On 1/29/2020 11:59 AM, g...@shireeninc.com wrote:
>> > The chemical reaction is pretty simple
>> > When chemical compound  of 2 Hydrogen and 1 Oxygen atoms are present and
>> > come in contact to our (Non Caustic, Non-Woven, Super Swelling Polyester
>> > Bonding Material*) better known as "No-conductive water blocking tape"
>> >
>> > The following parametric occurs:
>> >
>> > Thickness [mm]0.2 0.25
>> > Weigh[g/m2]   80  90
>> > Swelling height [mm]  ?12 ?14
>> > Swelling speed[mm/1st min]?10 ?10
>> > Tensile strength[N/15mm]  ?45 ?50
>> >
>> > Because of our Jacket composition, no change in OD has been observed.
>> > Because of the non-causticity, no damage has been observed to the 4
>> pairs
>> > insulation nor the solid 24 and 23 AWG copper core itself
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks for your attention.
>> >
>> >
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt
>> > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 9:56 AM
>> > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape
>> >
>> > So how does dry tape work anyway?  I assumed it had some dry powder type
>> > glue in it and when exposed to water absorbed and cured blocking further
>> > passage of water?  But not at all sure?
>> >
>> > --
>> > AF mailing list
>> > AF@af.afmug.com
>> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> >
>> >
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape


  
  
Tomato juice would be a no-no. Better to use citrus; like lime or
  lemon. Gin & tonic would work (with a little lime in it).


bp



On 1/29/2020 10:13 AM, Steve Jones
  wrote:


  
  does it have to be water, or would something like a
bloody mary work?
  
  
On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 11:56
  AM  wrote:


  

  Your is a much better test than
trying to first suck water through it like a straw,
which has been done…..and then proven to sustain a
PRESSURE test by trying to blow bubbles on both ends… 
we are very serious about our technology.   
   
   
   
  From: AF 
On Behalf Of Eric Muehleisen
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 12:34 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape
   
  
Same. We attached a funnel full of
  water to the end of a 2ft chuck of DC-1042. Left it
  for 24 hours expecting water to drip out the bottom.
  Never did. We started using it exclusively on our
  towers for the last 2 years. Not a single issue.
  
   
  

  On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 11:29 AM
Adam Moffett 
wrote:


  I remember dropping a chunk of
that tape into a glass of water and 
waiting for something to happen.  Maybe I didn't
wait long enough, but 
nothing happened.


On 1/29/2020 11:59 AM, g...@shireeninc.com
wrote:
> The chemical reaction is pretty simple
> When chemical compound  of 2 Hydrogen and 1
Oxygen atoms are present and
> come in contact to our (Non Caustic, Non-Woven,
Super Swelling Polyester
> Bonding Material*) better known as
"No-conductive water blocking tape"
>
> The following parametric occurs:
>
> Thickness [mm]        0.2     0.25
> Weigh[g/m2]   80      90
> Swelling height [mm]  ?12     ?14
> Swelling speed[mm/1st min]    ?10     ?10
> Tensile strength[N/15mm]      ?45     ?50
>
> Because of our Jacket composition, no change in
OD has been observed.
> Because of the non-causticity, no damage has
been observed to the 4 pairs
> insulation nor the solid 24 and 23 AWG copper
core itself
>
>
> Thanks for your attention.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF 
On Behalf Of Matt
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 9:56 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry
Tape
>
> So how does dry tape work anyway?  I assumed it
had some dry powder type
> glue in it and when exposed to water absorbed
and cured blocking further
> passage of water?  But not at all sure?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>

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Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape

does it have to be water, or would something like a bloody mary work?

On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 11:56 AM  wrote:

> Your is a much better test than trying to first suck water through it like
> a straw, which has been done…..and then proven to sustain a PRESSURE test
> by trying to blow bubbles on both ends…  we are very serious about our
> technology.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Eric Muehleisen
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 29, 2020 12:34 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape
>
>
>
> Same. We attached a funnel full of water to the end of a 2ft chuck of
> DC-1042. Left it for 24 hours expecting water to drip out the bottom. Never
> did. We started using it exclusively on our towers for the last 2 years.
> Not a single issue.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 11:29 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> I remember dropping a chunk of that tape into a glass of water and
> waiting for something to happen.  Maybe I didn't wait long enough, but
> nothing happened.
>
>
> On 1/29/2020 11:59 AM, g...@shireeninc.com wrote:
> > The chemical reaction is pretty simple
> > When chemical compound  of 2 Hydrogen and 1 Oxygen atoms are present and
> > come in contact to our (Non Caustic, Non-Woven, Super Swelling Polyester
> > Bonding Material*) better known as "No-conductive water blocking tape"
> >
> > The following parametric occurs:
> >
> > Thickness [mm]0.2 0.25
> > Weigh[g/m2]   80  90
> > Swelling height [mm]  ?12 ?14
> > Swelling speed[mm/1st min]?10 ?10
> > Tensile strength[N/15mm]  ?45 ?50
> >
> > Because of our Jacket composition, no change in OD has been observed.
> > Because of the non-causticity, no damage has been observed to the 4 pairs
> > insulation nor the solid 24 and 23 AWG copper core itself
> >
> >
> > Thanks for your attention.
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 9:56 AM
> > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape
> >
> > So how does dry tape work anyway?  I assumed it had some dry powder type
> > glue in it and when exposed to water absorbed and cured blocking further
> > passage of water?  But not at all sure?
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
> >
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Waveguide Makes a Comeback in 5G—for Antennas | Electronic Design

2020-01-29 Thread Brian Webster

The problem with gain at those frequencies is going to be the maximum 
permissible exposure power levels for uncontrolled public spaces. Handsets with 
a lot of gain near the eyes will exceed those power levels in short order. 
Nobody seems to be talking about that, antenna height needs to be above 30 feet 
I believe to not be in what is considered uncontrolled public access space. 
Still not seeing the logic with the thought process of using MM wave in 
handsets given those constraints.

 

Thank you,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 11:26 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Waveguide Makes a Comeback in 5G—for Antennas | Electronic 
Design

 

Very flat pancake pattern with that much gain in an omni.  

 

From: Cameron Crum 

Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 8:41 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Waveguide Makes a Comeback in 5G—for Antennas | Electronic 
Design

 

They said about 12 dBi gain from that omni which is pretty impressive for an 
omni. I guess if you have enough of them, it won't matter too much. I'm 
guessing these go with little pico-pops in an indoor type environment. 

 

On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 9:28 AM  wrote:

The one on the right looks like a dielectrically loaded V pol slot antenna.  
(On slots, the slot direction is opposite the polarization).  Similar to a 
collinear coax design.  

 

Narrow V pattern, low gain, mm waves, people moving around with super low gain 
antennas in their phones.  Am I the only one that does not think this will work 
well?

 

From: Cameron Crum 

Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 8:05 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Waveguide Makes a Comeback in 5G—for Antennas | Electronic 
Design

 

Very cool. The antennas I made for my wisp years ago were all slotted wave 
guides and 1 horn. Easy to make, simple materials, little to nothing to fail. 
These are obviously more advanced combining, those with active components, and 
other techniques, but it's cool to see it.  

 

 

 

On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 8:07 AM Jaime Solorza  wrote:

https://www.electronicdesign.com/industrial-automation/article/21121326/waveguide-makes-a-comeback-in-5gfor-antennas
 

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[AFMUG] CAF-II lack of bidders?

2020-01-29 Thread Dev

Got a question from an elected official type about why bids have been slow to 
come in for CAF-II, and also looking at RDOF and the satellite "lock up”. I’m 
sure there are some opinions here, any you wish to relate?
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Re: [AFMUG] Cambium POE Splitter

2020-01-29 Thread Matt

> The nice thing about this method is that it's all passive components.
>
> I might still rather do the switch at top with PoE in+out and VLAN per SM.  
> Without actually adding everything up I'd wager that the cost was about the 
> sameor comparable at least.  The operational difference is in whether you 
> have more faith in the brains out in the field or more faith in the brains in 
> the office configuring switches.  And if the building had more than 2 units 
> it might matter that you can add a 3rd or 4th SM this way.
>
> Or the ultimate lesson to take away from this:  If you're running a difficult 
> and time consuming cable path then pull extra cables at the same time.  It's 
> hard to get employees to look past the current job and think about how they 
> can help themselves in the future, but it's nice if they can.
>

Very very true.  In this case the wire run was not that difficult
around 3 years ago.  Then they remodeled the entire building.

If I ever remodel/build a home or business I am thinking of running in
wall micro duct to each location etc.



> On 1/29/2020 12:52 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>
> The differing twist lengths are engineered to minimize crosstalk between the 
> pairs.   If all of them have the same number of twists per inch then you will 
> find that the same wires tend to be next to each other down the length of the 
> cable.   If instead you have each of them have a different number of twists 
> such that over the length of the cable the amount of time each is in contact 
> with each other tends to be more even, reducing crosstalk.
>
> I suspect in some cases having two separate links running through the same 
> cable will hurt performance because you will get crosstalk from the other 
> link which you may not be able to cancel out using an echo canceller.  
> Probably depends on the length and specifics of the link.
>
> On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 8:33 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>> Each pair has a different number of twists per inch.  In Cat5 and Cat5e 
>> cable I observe the green and orange pairs, which are the data pairs, have 
>> the tightest twists.  I don’t remember if Cat6 is similar.  This leads me to 
>> believe the blue and brown pairs may have inferior crosstalk performance.  
>> But GigE uses all 4 pairs for data, so my theory is probably wrong.  I guess 
>> the important thing is that none of the pairs have the same number of twists.
>>
>>
>>
>> The reason I mention this is sometimes I see people assert that if you split 
>> a Cat5 cable into 2 as is being discussed, it will hurt the performance.
>>
>>
>>
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Forrest Christian (List 
>> Account)
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 5:24 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium POE Splitter
>>
>>
>>
>> This is actually pretty simple:
>>
>>
>>
>> Split the CAT5 into two, two pairs per radio, put the pairs on the data 
>> line.   At the bottom use a 24V gigabit capable injector which puts the 
>> power on the data pairs.  We have a couple at PacketFlux, Chuck makes a 
>> couple, and there are others available.   The goal here is to get the 24V 
>> riding the data line along with the data.So effectively you have two 
>> 10/100 capable links up with power on them.
>>
>>
>>
>> At the top, you reverse the process  get a device which will pull the 
>> power off of the data pairs, probably one of them from Chuck.   (See 
>> 800-GigE-PoE as an example).   Plug the cable from the bottom in the PoE 
>> port, then build yourself a cable for the radio which puts the extracted 
>> power on 4,5,7,8 and the data pins where they belong.
>>
>>
>>
>> You could also use a single midspan Gigabit PoE injector at the bottom with 
>> power on all 4 pairs, then remove it using a similar one at the top.   Then 
>> your long CAT5 stays unsplit, and the splitting and PoE mess is all in a 
>> single cable harness.   To do this you'd take two cat5 cables, and then wire 
>> the 1,2,3,6 pairs from each cable into a single RJ45 (putting one on 1,2,3,6 
>> and the other on 4,5,7,8) which gets plugged into the non-PoE side of the 
>> extractor.   Then the remaining 4,5,7,8 wires you'd connect to the power 
>> which came out of the PoE extractor at the top. The bottom harness would 
>> be similar but for simplicity you can just put 24V in the injector and not 
>> connect 4,5,7,8 on either CAT5.   Now I think about this, this is what I'd 
>> probably do and just use a single 800-GigE-PoE top and bottom.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 9:17 AM Matt  wrote:
>>
>> I have a case where I need to power up two separate Cambium 24 volt
>> SMs on rooftop but only need 100base to each.  Its very difficult to
>> run the second wire at this location which I need.  Anyone know of way
>> to split the cat5 at bottom and top to do this?  Not likely but
>> thought I would ask.
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape

Your is a much better test than trying to first suck water through it like a 
straw, which has been done…..and then proven to sustain a PRESSURE test by 
trying to blow bubbles on both ends…  we are very serious about our technology. 
  

 

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Eric Muehleisen
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 12:34 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape

 

Same. We attached a funnel full of water to the end of a 2ft chuck of DC-1042. 
Left it for 24 hours expecting water to drip out the bottom. Never did. We 
started using it exclusively on our towers for the last 2 years. Not a single 
issue.

 

On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 11:29 AM Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I remember dropping a chunk of that tape into a glass of water and 
waiting for something to happen.  Maybe I didn't wait long enough, but 
nothing happened.


On 1/29/2020 11:59 AM, g...@shireeninc.com   wrote:
> The chemical reaction is pretty simple
> When chemical compound  of 2 Hydrogen and 1 Oxygen atoms are present and
> come in contact to our (Non Caustic, Non-Woven, Super Swelling Polyester
> Bonding Material*) better known as "No-conductive water blocking tape"
>
> The following parametric occurs:
>
> Thickness [mm]0.2 0.25
> Weigh[g/m2]   80  90
> Swelling height [mm]  ?12 ?14
> Swelling speed[mm/1st min]?10 ?10
> Tensile strength[N/15mm]  ?45 ?50
>
> Because of our Jacket composition, no change in OD has been observed.
> Because of the non-causticity, no damage has been observed to the 4 pairs
> insulation nor the solid 24 and 23 AWG copper core itself
>
>
> Thanks for your attention.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On 
> Behalf Of Matt
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 9:56 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group   >
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape
>
> So how does dry tape work anyway?  I assumed it had some dry powder type
> glue in it and when exposed to water absorbed and cured blocking further
> passage of water?  But not at all sure?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com  
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>

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Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape

2020-01-29 Thread Mathew Howard

That's because the sea monkeys all escaped when you took it out of the
jacket.

On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 11:43 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> That sounds like a much better test than mine.  All I did was extract a
> piece of the tape from the cable and set it in a glass with water in it.  I
> was expecting to see some visible swelling, but I couldn't see any.
>
>
> On 1/29/2020 12:34 PM, Eric Muehleisen wrote:
>
> Same. We attached a funnel full of water to the end of a 2ft chuck of
> DC-1042. Left it for 24 hours expecting water to drip out the bottom. Never
> did. We started using it exclusively on our towers for the last 2 years.
> Not a single issue.
>
> On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 11:29 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> I remember dropping a chunk of that tape into a glass of water and
>> waiting for something to happen.  Maybe I didn't wait long enough, but
>> nothing happened.
>>
>>
>> On 1/29/2020 11:59 AM, g...@shireeninc.com wrote:
>> > The chemical reaction is pretty simple
>> > When chemical compound  of 2 Hydrogen and 1 Oxygen atoms are present and
>> > come in contact to our (Non Caustic, Non-Woven, Super Swelling Polyester
>> > Bonding Material*) better known as "No-conductive water blocking tape"
>> >
>> > The following parametric occurs:
>> >
>> > Thickness [mm]0.2 0.25
>> > Weigh[g/m2]   80  90
>> > Swelling height [mm]  ?12 ?14
>> > Swelling speed[mm/1st min]?10 ?10
>> > Tensile strength[N/15mm]  ?45 ?50
>> >
>> > Because of our Jacket composition, no change in OD has been observed.
>> > Because of the non-causticity, no damage has been observed to the 4
>> pairs
>> > insulation nor the solid 24 and 23 AWG copper core itself
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks for your attention.
>> >
>> >
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt
>> > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 9:56 AM
>> > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape
>> >
>> > So how does dry tape work anyway?  I assumed it had some dry powder type
>> > glue in it and when exposed to water absorbed and cured blocking further
>> > passage of water?  But not at all sure?
>> >
>> > --
>> > AF mailing list
>> > AF@af.afmug.com
>> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> >
>> >
>>
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape

We used that once on a tower site. When water got into it, it created 
very confusing symptoms. We replaced it with BBDGE. I don't remember 
what brand the water-blocking tape was. Using the BBDGE, we occasionally 
get some of the gel leaking out at the bottom, but it doesn't cause any 
problems other than the esthetics.




On 1/28/2020 2:16 PM, Matt wrote:

Has anyone used shielded cat5 up tower with water blocking dry tape?
Does it work very well in case of water intrusion?

Once in rare while we will get a run with water in it.  I always think
when it happens someone did something wrong on install but a real pain
when it happens.



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Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape

It works at the quantum level and will not do its magic if it is observed.  

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 10:42 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape

That sounds like a much better test than mine.  All I did was extract a piece 
of the tape from the cable and set it in a glass with water in it.  I was 
expecting to see some visible swelling, but I couldn't see any.

On 1/29/2020 12:34 PM, Eric Muehleisen wrote:

  Same. We attached a funnel full of water to the end of a 2ft chuck of 
DC-1042. Left it for 24 hours expecting water to drip out the bottom. Never 
did. We started using it exclusively on our towers for the last 2 years. Not a 
single issue.

  On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 11:29 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

I remember dropping a chunk of that tape into a glass of water and 
waiting for something to happen.  Maybe I didn't wait long enough, but 
nothing happened.

On 1/29/2020 11:59 AM, g...@shireeninc.com wrote:
> The chemical reaction is pretty simple
> When chemical compound  of 2 Hydrogen and 1 Oxygen atoms are present and
> come in contact to our (Non Caustic, Non-Woven, Super Swelling Polyester
> Bonding Material*) better known as "No-conductive water blocking tape"
>
> The following parametric occurs:
>
> Thickness [mm]0.2 0.25
> Weigh[g/m2]   80  90
> Swelling height [mm]  ?12 ?14
> Swelling speed[mm/1st min]?10 ?10
> Tensile strength[N/15mm]  ?45 ?50
>
> Because of our Jacket composition, no change in OD has been observed.
> Because of the non-causticity, no damage has been observed to the 4 pairs
> insulation nor the solid 24 and 23 AWG copper core itself
>
>
> Thanks for your attention.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 9:56 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape
>
> So how does dry tape work anyway?  I assumed it had some dry powder type
> glue in it and when exposed to water absorbed and cured blocking further
> passage of water?  But not at all sure?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>

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Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape

That sounds like a much better test than mine.  All I did was extract a 
piece of the tape from the cable and set it in a glass with water in 
it.  I was expecting to see some visible swelling, but I couldn't see any.



On 1/29/2020 12:34 PM, Eric Muehleisen wrote:
Same. We attached a funnel full of water to the end of a 2ft chuck of 
DC-1042. Left it for 24 hours expecting water to drip out the bottom. 
Never did. We started using it exclusively on our towers for the last 
2 years. Not a single issue.


On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 11:29 AM Adam Moffett > wrote:


I remember dropping a chunk of that tape into a glass of water and
waiting for something to happen.  Maybe I didn't wait long enough,
but
nothing happened.


On 1/29/2020 11:59 AM, g...@shireeninc.com
 wrote:
> The chemical reaction is pretty simple
> When chemical compound  of 2 Hydrogen and 1 Oxygen atoms are
present and
> come in contact to our (Non Caustic, Non-Woven, Super Swelling
Polyester
> Bonding Material*) better known as "No-conductive water blocking
tape"
>
> The following parametric occurs:
>
> Thickness [mm]        0.2     0.25
> Weigh[g/m2]   80      90
> Swelling height [mm]  ?12     ?14
> Swelling speed[mm/1st min]    ?10     ?10
> Tensile strength[N/15mm]      ?45     ?50
>
> Because of our Jacket composition, no change in OD has been
observed.
> Because of the non-causticity, no damage has been observed to
the 4 pairs
> insulation nor the solid 24 and 23 AWG copper core itself
>
>
> Thanks for your attention.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of Matt
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 9:56 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape
>
> So how does dry tape work anyway?  I assumed it had some dry
powder type
> glue in it and when exposed to water absorbed and cured blocking
further
> passage of water?  But not at all sure?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com 
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>

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Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape

No one is allowed to comment at AFMUG if its not serious. this is serious
business here

On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 11:35 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> I'm not sure whether you're serious.
>
>
> On 1/29/2020 12:32 PM, g...@shireeninc.com wrote:
> > You have to be hanging from a tower and connected to a network for it
> work
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 12:29 PM
> > To: af@af.afmug.com
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape
> >
> > I remember dropping a chunk of that tape into a glass of water and
> waiting for something to happen.  Maybe I didn't wait long enough, but
> nothing happened.
> >
> >
> > On 1/29/2020 11:59 AM, g...@shireeninc.com wrote:
> >> The chemical reaction is pretty simple When chemical compound  of 2
> >> Hydrogen and 1 Oxygen atoms are present and come in contact to our
> >> (Non Caustic, Non-Woven, Super Swelling Polyester Bonding Material*)
> >> better known as "No-conductive water blocking tape"
> >>
> >> The following parametric occurs:
> >>
> >> Thickness [mm]   0.2 0.25
> >> Weigh[g/m2]  80  90
> >> Swelling height [mm] ?12 ?14
> >> Swelling speed[mm/1st min]   ?10 ?10
> >> Tensile strength[N/15mm] ?45 ?50
> >>
> >> Because of our Jacket composition, no change in OD has been observed.
> >> Because of the non-causticity, no damage has been observed to the 4
> >> pairs insulation nor the solid 24 and 23 AWG copper core itself
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks for your attention.
> >>
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt
> >> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 9:56 AM
> >> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape
> >>
> >> So how does dry tape work anyway?  I assumed it had some dry powder
> >> type glue in it and when exposed to water absorbed and cured blocking
> >> further passage of water?  But not at all sure?
> >>
> >> --
> >> AF mailing list
> >> AF@af.afmug.com
> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >>
> >>
> > --
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> > AF@af.afmug.com
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> >
> >
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape


I'm not sure whether you're serious.


On 1/29/2020 12:32 PM, g...@shireeninc.com wrote:

You have to be hanging from a tower and connected to a network for it work
  



-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 12:29 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape

I remember dropping a chunk of that tape into a glass of water and waiting for 
something to happen.  Maybe I didn't wait long enough, but nothing happened.


On 1/29/2020 11:59 AM, g...@shireeninc.com wrote:

The chemical reaction is pretty simple When chemical compound  of 2
Hydrogen and 1 Oxygen atoms are present and come in contact to our
(Non Caustic, Non-Woven, Super Swelling Polyester Bonding Material*)
better known as "No-conductive water blocking tape"

The following parametric occurs:

Thickness [mm]  0.2 0.25
Weigh[g/m2] 80  90
Swelling height [mm]?12 ?14
Swelling speed[mm/1st min]  ?10 ?10
Tensile strength[N/15mm]?45 ?50

Because of our Jacket composition, no change in OD has been observed.
Because of the non-causticity, no damage has been observed to the 4
pairs insulation nor the solid 24 and 23 AWG copper core itself


Thanks for your attention.


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 9:56 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape

So how does dry tape work anyway?  I assumed it had some dry powder
type glue in it and when exposed to water absorbed and cured blocking
further passage of water?  But not at all sure?

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Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape

2020-01-29 Thread Eric Muehleisen

Same. We attached a funnel full of water to the end of a 2ft chuck of
DC-1042. Left it for 24 hours expecting water to drip out the bottom. Never
did. We started using it exclusively on our towers for the last 2 years.
Not a single issue.

On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 11:29 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> I remember dropping a chunk of that tape into a glass of water and
> waiting for something to happen.  Maybe I didn't wait long enough, but
> nothing happened.
>
>
> On 1/29/2020 11:59 AM, g...@shireeninc.com wrote:
> > The chemical reaction is pretty simple
> > When chemical compound  of 2 Hydrogen and 1 Oxygen atoms are present and
> > come in contact to our (Non Caustic, Non-Woven, Super Swelling Polyester
> > Bonding Material*) better known as "No-conductive water blocking tape"
> >
> > The following parametric occurs:
> >
> > Thickness [mm]0.2 0.25
> > Weigh[g/m2]   80  90
> > Swelling height [mm]  ?12 ?14
> > Swelling speed[mm/1st min]?10 ?10
> > Tensile strength[N/15mm]  ?45 ?50
> >
> > Because of our Jacket composition, no change in OD has been observed.
> > Because of the non-causticity, no damage has been observed to the 4 pairs
> > insulation nor the solid 24 and 23 AWG copper core itself
> >
> >
> > Thanks for your attention.
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 9:56 AM
> > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape
> >
> > So how does dry tape work anyway?  I assumed it had some dry powder type
> > glue in it and when exposed to water absorbed and cured blocking further
> > passage of water?  But not at all sure?
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
> >
>
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape

You have to be hanging from a tower and connected to a network for it work 
 


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 12:29 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape

I remember dropping a chunk of that tape into a glass of water and waiting for 
something to happen.  Maybe I didn't wait long enough, but nothing happened.


On 1/29/2020 11:59 AM, g...@shireeninc.com wrote:
> The chemical reaction is pretty simple When chemical compound  of 2 
> Hydrogen and 1 Oxygen atoms are present and come in contact to our 
> (Non Caustic, Non-Woven, Super Swelling Polyester Bonding Material*) 
> better known as "No-conductive water blocking tape"
>
> The following parametric occurs:
>
> Thickness [mm]0.2 0.25
> Weigh[g/m2]   80  90
> Swelling height [mm]  ?12 ?14
> Swelling speed[mm/1st min]?10 ?10
> Tensile strength[N/15mm]  ?45 ?50
>
> Because of our Jacket composition, no change in OD has been observed.
> Because of the non-causticity, no damage has been observed to the 4 
> pairs insulation nor the solid 24 and 23 AWG copper core itself
>
>
> Thanks for your attention.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 9:56 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape
>
> So how does dry tape work anyway?  I assumed it had some dry powder 
> type glue in it and when exposed to water absorbed and cured blocking 
> further passage of water?  But not at all sure?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>

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Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape

I remember dropping a chunk of that tape into a glass of water and 
waiting for something to happen.  Maybe I didn't wait long enough, but 
nothing happened.



On 1/29/2020 11:59 AM, g...@shireeninc.com wrote:

The chemical reaction is pretty simple
When chemical compound  of 2 Hydrogen and 1 Oxygen atoms are present and
come in contact to our (Non Caustic, Non-Woven, Super Swelling Polyester
Bonding Material*) better known as "No-conductive water blocking tape"

The following parametric occurs:

Thickness [mm]  0.2 0.25
Weigh[g/m2] 80  90
Swelling height [mm]?12 ?14
Swelling speed[mm/1st min]  ?10 ?10
Tensile strength[N/15mm]?45 ?50

Because of our Jacket composition, no change in OD has been observed.
Because of the non-causticity, no damage has been observed to the 4 pairs
insulation nor the solid 24 and 23 AWG copper core itself


Thanks for your attention.


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 9:56 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape

So how does dry tape work anyway?  I assumed it had some dry powder type
glue in it and when exposed to water absorbed and cured blocking further
passage of water?  But not at all sure?

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Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape

Better watch the radiation, else you may have large green unhappy sea monkeys 
busting out of the side of the jacket.  

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 10:05 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape

"(Non Caustic, Non-Woven, Super Swelling Polyester
Bonding Material*) better known as Sea Monkeys" 

I told you guys, and greg has verified it. I knew it. Cables full of sea 
monkeys out there. fat little water filled sea monkeys, pooping on our pairs 
getting exposed to 5G radiation. this is how we go down, super sea monkeys from 
shireen. I bet top execs at shireen have some deal with the sea monkey leaders 
for their freedom. Selling us all out in the Sea monkey kingdom. 

On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 11:00 AM  wrote:

  The chemical reaction is pretty simple 
  When chemical compound  of 2 Hydrogen and 1 Oxygen atoms are present and
  come in contact to our (Non Caustic, Non-Woven, Super Swelling Polyester
  Bonding Material*) better known as "No-conductive water blocking tape"

  The following parametric occurs:

  Thickness [mm]  0.2 0.25
  Weigh[g/m2] 80  90
  Swelling height [mm]?12 ?14
  Swelling speed[mm/1st min]  ?10 ?10
  Tensile strength[N/15mm]?45 ?50

  Because of our Jacket composition, no change in OD has been observed.
  Because of the non-causticity, no damage has been observed to the 4 pairs
  insulation nor the solid 24 and 23 AWG copper core itself 

  Thanks for your attention.

  -Original Message-
  From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt
  Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 9:56 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape

  So how does dry tape work anyway?  I assumed it had some dry powder type
  glue in it and when exposed to water absorbed and cured blocking further
  passage of water?  But not at all sure?

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Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape

[image: ShireenSeaMonkey.jpg]

On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 11:07 AM  wrote:

> You have a 50/50 chance of being correct.
>
> As you risk your business, that would be a risk to Shireen, Inc. also.
>
> Other than suggesting: Cat6 up towers over 100’, move to fiber, or use
> hybrid cables.  I think your risk of regret is low. 
>
>
>
> I have also answered your copper damaging concern in a previous email to
> this forum on this subject.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 29, 2020 9:33 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape
>
>
>
> we started using this apex 9 stuff on residential, I think its shireen
> rebranded, i dont know. We have recently started taking the risk of using
> it on POPs instead of the BBDGE simply for cost savings, we will probably
> come to regret it when we are pulling it all out and putting BBDGE back in
> like we did with the BBDNE. To concept seems solid wit the embedded tape,
> but it also makes me wonder if it absorbs the water and when it freezes it
> will damage the copper.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 8:23 AM  wrote:
>
> If I can assist anyone with any concerns, please feel free to ask
>
> g...@shireeninc.com
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 9:08 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape
>
> > This is a little off the subject but more to do with water migration.
> >
> > Decades of working with coaxial cable on towers has taught me that a
> small
> cut out of the jacket at the bottom of a drop loop before entering a
> shelter
> or cabinet goes a long way to preventing water migration into connectors.
>
> I put a new connector on and do that on runs that have gotten water in
> them.
> Just hate to do it on a good run but its a good point.  Always leave a
> generous service loop now days to make this possible.
>
>
> >
> > Water is a lot like electricity... Always seeking the path of least
> resistance.
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 8:06 PM Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I agree. We've been using the shireen stuff on towers for awhile. If
> there's a bad enough leak, it will eventually make it to the bottom, but
> it's definitely better than nothing.
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 4:51 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> We use the Shireen stuff.  I'd rate the dry gel tape as good not great.
> >>> It's certainly better than the Belden we used to use, which has a
> >>> cellophane like wrap that seems to guide the water all the way to
> >>> the RJ45 at the bottom.
> >>>
> >>> The tape gets soggy, it doesn't turn into water blocking gel like in
> >>> a gel filled cable.  I'm not sure how I feel about some soggy tape
> >>> inside the cable 100 feet up, but I don't think I've experienced
> >>> drops of water coming out the bottom of any of the Shireen cable.
> >>> You absolutely do want to tape or otherwise weatherproof the ends of
> >>> any spare cables though, or they will absorb water and you'll have
> >>> to cut off several feet if you ever want to terminate and use them.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -Original Message-
> >>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 4:16 PM
> >>> To: af@af.afmug.com
> >>> Subject: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape
> >>>
> >>> Has anyone used shielded cat5 up tower with water blocking dry tape?
> >>> Does it work very well in case of water intrusion?
> >>>
> >>> Once in rare while we will get a run with water in it.  I always
> >>> think when it happens someone did something wrong on install but a
> >>> real pain when it happens.
> >>>
> >>> --
>
> --
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>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape

I got a book coming out… you will have wait.  

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 12:05 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape

"(Non Caustic, Non-Woven, Super Swelling Polyester
Bonding Material*) better known as Sea Monkeys"

I told you guys, and greg has verified it. I knew it. Cables full of sea 
monkeys out there. fat little water filled sea monkeys, pooping on our pairs 
getting exposed to 5G radiation. this is how we go down, super sea monkeys from 
shireen. I bet top execs at shireen have some deal with the sea monkey leaders 
for their freedom. Selling us all out in the Sea monkey kingdom. 

On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 11:00 AM mailto:g...@shireeninc.com> > wrote:

The chemical reaction is pretty simple 
When chemical compound  of 2 Hydrogen and 1 Oxygen atoms are present and
come in contact to our (Non Caustic, Non-Woven, Super Swelling Polyester
Bonding Material*) better known as "No-conductive water blocking tape"

The following parametric occurs:

Thickness [mm]  0.2 0.25
Weigh[g/m2] 80  90
Swelling height [mm]?12 ?14
Swelling speed[mm/1st min]  ?10 ?10
Tensile strength[N/15mm]?45 ?50

Because of our Jacket composition, no change in OD has been observed.
Because of the non-causticity, no damage has been observed to the 4 pairs
insulation nor the solid 24 and 23 AWG copper core itself 

Thanks for your attention.

-Original Message-
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Matt
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 9:56 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape

So how does dry tape work anyway?  I assumed it had some dry powder type
glue in it and when exposed to water absorbed and cured blocking further
passage of water?  But not at all sure?

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Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape

You have a 50/50 chance of being correct.  

As you risk your business, that would be a risk to Shireen, Inc. also.

Other than suggesting: Cat6 up towers over 100’, move to fiber, or use hybrid 
cables.  I think your risk of regret is low. 

 

I have also answered your copper damaging concern in a previous email to this 
forum on this subject.

 

 

 

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 9:33 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape

 

we started using this apex 9 stuff on residential, I think its shireen 
rebranded, i dont know. We have recently started taking the risk of using it on 
POPs instead of the BBDGE simply for cost savings, we will probably come to 
regret it when we are pulling it all out and putting BBDGE back in like we did 
with the BBDNE. To concept seems solid wit the embedded tape, but it also makes 
me wonder if it absorbs the water and when it freezes it will damage the copper.

 

On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 8:23 AM mailto:g...@shireeninc.com> > wrote:

If I can assist anyone with any concerns, please feel free to ask

g...@shireeninc.com  


-Original Message-
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Matt
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 9:08 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape

> This is a little off the subject but more to do with water migration.
>
> Decades of working with coaxial cable on towers has taught me that a small
cut out of the jacket at the bottom of a drop loop before entering a shelter
or cabinet goes a long way to preventing water migration into connectors.

I put a new connector on and do that on runs that have gotten water in them.
Just hate to do it on a good run but its a good point.  Always leave a
generous service loop now days to make this possible.


>
> Water is a lot like electricity... Always seeking the path of least
resistance.
>
> On Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 8:06 PM Mathew Howard   > wrote:
>>
>> I agree. We've been using the shireen stuff on towers for awhile. If
there's a bad enough leak, it will eventually make it to the bottom, but
it's definitely better than nothing.
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 4:51 PM Ken Hohhof >  > wrote:
>>>
>>> We use the Shireen stuff.  I'd rate the dry gel tape as good not great.
>>> It's certainly better than the Belden we used to use, which has a 
>>> cellophane like wrap that seems to guide the water all the way to 
>>> the RJ45 at the bottom.
>>>
>>> The tape gets soggy, it doesn't turn into water blocking gel like in 
>>> a gel filled cable.  I'm not sure how I feel about some soggy tape 
>>> inside the cable 100 feet up, but I don't think I've experienced 
>>> drops of water coming out the bottom of any of the Shireen cable.  
>>> You absolutely do want to tape or otherwise weatherproof the ends of 
>>> any spare cables though, or they will absorb water and you'll have 
>>> to cut off several feet if you ever want to terminate and use them.
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On 
>>> Behalf Of Matt
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 4:16 PM
>>> To: af@af.afmug.com  
>>> Subject: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape
>>>
>>> Has anyone used shielded cat5 up tower with water blocking dry tape?
>>> Does it work very well in case of water intrusion?
>>>
>>> Once in rare while we will get a run with water in it.  I always 
>>> think when it happens someone did something wrong on install but a 
>>> real pain when it happens.
>>>
>>> --

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Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape

"(Non Caustic, Non-Woven, Super Swelling Polyester
Bonding Material*) better known as Sea Monkeys"

I told you guys, and greg has verified it. I knew it. Cables full of sea
monkeys out there. fat little water filled sea monkeys, pooping on our
pairs getting exposed to 5G radiation. this is how we go down, super sea
monkeys from shireen. I bet top execs at shireen have some deal with the
sea monkey leaders for their freedom. Selling us all out in the Sea monkey
kingdom.

On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 11:00 AM  wrote:

> The chemical reaction is pretty simple
> When chemical compound  of 2 Hydrogen and 1 Oxygen atoms are present and
> come in contact to our (Non Caustic, Non-Woven, Super Swelling Polyester
> Bonding Material*) better known as "No-conductive water blocking tape"
>
> The following parametric occurs:
>
> Thickness [mm]  0.2 0.25
> Weigh[g/m2] 80  90
> Swelling height [mm]?12 ?14
> Swelling speed[mm/1st min]  ?10 ?10
> Tensile strength[N/15mm]?45 ?50
>
> Because of our Jacket composition, no change in OD has been observed.
> Because of the non-causticity, no damage has been observed to the 4 pairs
> insulation nor the solid 24 and 23 AWG copper core itself
>
>
> Thanks for your attention.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 9:56 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape
>
> So how does dry tape work anyway?  I assumed it had some dry powder type
> glue in it and when exposed to water absorbed and cured blocking further
> passage of water?  But not at all sure?
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape

The chemical reaction is pretty simple 
When chemical compound  of 2 Hydrogen and 1 Oxygen atoms are present and
come in contact to our (Non Caustic, Non-Woven, Super Swelling Polyester
Bonding Material*) better known as "No-conductive water blocking tape"

The following parametric occurs:

Thickness [mm]  0.2 0.25
Weigh[g/m2] 80  90
Swelling height [mm]?12 ?14
Swelling speed[mm/1st min]  ?10 ?10
Tensile strength[N/15mm]?45 ?50

Because of our Jacket composition, no change in OD has been observed.
Because of the non-causticity, no damage has been observed to the 4 pairs
insulation nor the solid 24 and 23 AWG copper core itself 


Thanks for your attention.


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 9:56 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape

So how does dry tape work anyway?  I assumed it had some dry powder type
glue in it and when exposed to water absorbed and cured blocking further
passage of water?  But not at all sure?

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Re: [AFMUG] RackMount Devices - Handles or No Handles

2020-01-29 Thread Steve Utick

https://www.racksolutions.com/cage-nut-tool.html

On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 8:18 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Yeah, I used to hate cage nuts, but when you get to a site with a bag full
> of the wrong screws you start to wonder if you shouldn't have used cage
> nuts.
>
> In other news.what tool for cage nuts?  Have I been doing it the hard
> way?
>
>
> On 1/28/2020 8:05 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> New stuff I try to use M6, but I have lots of telco racks and telco stuff
> is all 12-24 (probably even to this day).
>
>
>
> I’m sure there’s some 10-32 and M5 screws around also, but being an old
> telco industry guy, I consider those too wimpy.  I guess I accept the 10-32
> stuff as legacy IT rack standard just like 12-24 is legacy telco rack
> standard.  Anything I do metric is new, so M5 just doesn’t make sense.
> Luckily most new stuff has the square holes so I just need a bag of M6 cage
> nuts.  Now if I could just find my tool for inserting and extracting cage
> nuts.
>
>
>
> What I hate is stripping the threads in an old rack because I think it’s
> one size and it’s another.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Mark Radabaugh
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 28, 2020 6:18 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] RackMount Devices - Handles or No Handles
>
>
>
> ug… no wonder this ends up aggravating me on a regular basis.  I think we
> settled on 12-24 for the majority of the equipment we have.
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> On Jan 28, 2020, at 6:06 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> There are actually four standards:
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Even better, the *two* active standards (IEC_60927-3-100 and IEA/ECA-310)
> each have a preferred thread sizes.   The IEC standard prefers M6x1, and
> the IEA/ECA standard prefers M5.
>
>
>
> I'm assuming that you're talking about either a M5 or a M6 screw, not a
> non-metric 10-32 or 12-24.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 8:53 AM Mark Radabaugh  wrote:
>
> Not a big concern for us.   If you get rid of the handles please leave a
> tapped hole in the center of the 1U bracket that matches the common rack
> screw (there are two standards - pick one) to use as a jack screw if the
> unit is being stubborn coming out of the rack.
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> On Jan 28, 2020, at 9:13 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>
>
> I can live without handles.
>
>
>
> Not really a big deal unless it’s a super long, heavy server, and those
> typically go in 4 post racks or cabinets anyway with rear access.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jason Wilson
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 28, 2020 1:24 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] RackMount Devices - Handles or No Handles
>
>
>
> Make keyholes for handles?  If you happen to need them slide them on.
> Removeable. Keep 1 set in the go bag.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 10:09 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
> I'm wondering if anyone has strong opinions about handles on
> rackmount devices.
>
>
>
> I'm in the process of switching the enclosure manufacturer on the
> RackInjector and in the process making some design changes that should make
> things better for both us and our customers.  I don't want to share too
> much just in case this doesn't work out - and no, this isn't a change to
> hot-swappable cards.
>
>
>
> With the design we're working on, the handles we have on the front of the
> existing enclosure aren't very easy to implement in the new design.   So
> I'm thinking about just dropping them to save the hassle/pain/shipping
> issues/cost/etc/etc/etc.
>
>
>
> My personal experience has been that although handles on enclosures are
> nice when removing a device from a rack, they are by no means necessary.
>  On occasion, I've also had handles become a liability instead of a help.
>  But on the other hand, when a device gets stuck in a rack (typically due
> to neighboring devices), it is nice to have them to add leverage when
> removing the enclosure.
>
>
>
> I'm wondering what everyone else's thoughts on this are...
>
>
>
> --
>
> - Forrest
>
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>
> Remotely Located
>
> Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
>
> 530-651-1736
>
> 530-748-9608 Cell
>
> www.remotelylocated.com
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>
>
>
>
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> - Forrest
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Waveguide Makes a Comeback in 5G—for Antennas | Electronic Design

Very flat pancake pattern with that much gain in an omni.  

From: Cameron Crum 
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 8:41 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Waveguide Makes a Comeback in 5G—for Antennas | Electronic 
Design

They said about 12 dBi gain from that omni which is pretty impressive for an 
omni. I guess if you have enough of them, it won't matter too much. I'm 
guessing these go with little pico-pops in an indoor type environment. 

On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 9:28 AM  wrote:

  The one on the right looks like a dielectrically loaded V pol slot antenna.  
(On slots, the slot direction is opposite the polarization).  Similar to a 
collinear coax design.  

  Narrow V pattern, low gain, mm waves, people moving around with super low 
gain antennas in their phones.  Am I the only one that does not think this will 
work well?

  From: Cameron Crum 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 8:05 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Waveguide Makes a Comeback in 5G—for Antennas | 
Electronic Design

  Very cool. The antennas I made for my wisp years ago were all slotted wave 
guides and 1 horn. Easy to make, simple materials, little to nothing to fail. 
These are obviously more advanced combining, those with active components, and 
other techniques, but it's cool to see it.  

  On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 8:07 AM Jaime Solorza  
wrote:

https://www.electronicdesign.com/industrial-automation/article/21121326/waveguide-makes-a-comeback-in-5gfor-antennas

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Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape

Don’t knock technology, I have a rock that’s a therapy animal.   

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 10:26 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape

Its got embedded sea monkey eggs, when they get wet they come alive and drink 
the water

On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 8:57 AM Matt mailto:matt.mailingli...@gmail.com> > wrote:

So how does dry tape work anyway?  I assumed it had some dry powder
type glue in it and when exposed to water absorbed and cured blocking
further passage of water?  But not at all sure?

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Re: [AFMUG] OT: OTA Antennas again

In our experience, any antenna placed indoors will suck bronto. We tried
several iterations, and even just the roof attenuated the signal too much.

We had a small yagi-type antenna for a while, but the wind just ripped
it apart. The last antenna we got was a Winegard "FlatWave Air
(https://winegard.com/products/hdtv-digital-antennas/outdoor-antennas/flatwave/flatwave-air).
We have used it now for several years. It's relatively small, and
doesn't "look" like an antenna either.

Almost all the stations we get are on a single large tower in San
Francisco at about 40 miles (all UHF and one VHF). There is a single
station (VHF) that is about 35 miles away at almost exactly the same
azimuth, and another UHF station that is about 75 miles away. Curiously,
the 75-mile UHF station is the strongest signal of all.

On 1/28/2020 6:37 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
I know it's been brought up in the past, but I'm too lazy to go look
through the archives.

What good OTA Antennas are out there now? Is channel master still the
gold standard? Looking to mount inside an attic. 35 miles to the
transmitter across water, and through a couple sand dunes and a forest
(NW Indiana across lake Michigan to Chicago)

Looks like there are square and yagi antennas. The Yagi antennas say
'line of sight' Does that really mean LOS like we think of LOS, or
LOS as in it has to be aimed at the receiver?

Has to go in the attic because my mom says 'anything that goes on the
roof will leak', but she's ready to dump Comcast because they keep
raising her price and taking away her channels (last straw was them
pulling TCM from her package). I was at least smart enough to put in
a conduit from the attic to the basement when they built the house.
Yagi might be hard to aim in the attic. Would it work just the same on
a post in the yard, or does the extra 15' of height to the attic
really help.

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Re: [AFMUG] Cambium POE Splitter


The nice thing about this method is that it's all passive components.

I might still rather do the switch at top with PoE in+out and VLAN per 
SM.  Without actually adding everything up I'd wager that the cost was 
about the sameor comparable at least.  The operational difference is 
in whether you have more faith in the brains out in the field or more 
faith in the brains in the office configuring switches.  And if the 
building had more than 2 units it might matter that you can add a 3rd or 
4th SM this way.


Or the ultimate lesson to take away from this:  If you're running a 
difficult and time consuming cable path then pull extra cables at the 
same time.  It's hard to get employees to look past the current job and 
think about how they can help themselves in the future, but it's nice if 
they can.



On 1/29/2020 12:52 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
The differing twist lengths are engineered to minimize crosstalk 
between the pairs.   If all of them have the same number of twists per 
inch then you will find that the same wires tend to be next to each 
other down the length of the cable.   If instead you have each of them 
have a different number of twists such that over the length of the 
cable the amount of time each is in contact with each other tends to 
be more even, reducing crosstalk.


I suspect in some cases having two separate links running through the 
same cable will hurt performance because you will get crosstalk from 
the other link which you may not be able to cancel out using an echo 
canceller.  Probably depends on the length and specifics of the link.


On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 8:33 PM Ken Hohhof > wrote:


Each pair has a different number of twists per inch.  In Cat5 and
Cat5e cable I observe the green and orange pairs, which are the
data pairs, have the tightest twists.  I don’t remember if Cat6 is
similar.  This leads me to believe the blue and brown pairs may
have inferior crosstalk performance.  But GigE uses all 4 pairs
for data, so my theory is probably wrong.  I guess the important
thing is that none of the pairs have the same number of twists.

The reason I mention this is sometimes I see people assert that if
you split a Cat5 cable into 2 as is being discussed, it will hurt
the performance.

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Forrest Christian
(List Account)
*Sent:* Tuesday, January 28, 2020 5:24 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium POE Splitter

This is actually pretty simple:

Split the CAT5 into two, two pairs per radio, put the pairs on the
data line.  At the bottom use a 24V gigabit capable injector which
puts the power on the data pairs.  We have a couple at PacketFlux,
Chuck makes a couple, and there are others available.   The goal
here is to get the 24V riding the data line along with the data. 
  So effectively you have two 10/100 capable links up with power
on them.

At the top, you reverse the process  get a device which will
pull the power off of the data pairs, probably one of them from
Chuck.   (See 800-GigE-PoE as an example).   Plug the cable from
the bottom in the PoE port, then build yourself a cable for the
radio which puts the extracted power on 4,5,7,8 and the data pins
where they belong.

You could also use a single midspan Gigabit PoE injector at the
bottom with power on all 4 pairs, then remove it using a similar
one at the top.   Then your long CAT5 stays unsplit, and the
splitting and PoE mess is all in a single cable harness.   To do
this you'd take two cat5 cables, and then wire the 1,2,3,6 pairs
from each cable into a single RJ45 (putting one on 1,2,3,6 and the
other on 4,5,7,8) which gets plugged into the non-PoE side of the
extractor.   Then the remaining 4,5,7,8 wires you'd connect to the
power which came out of the PoE extractor at the top.     The
bottom harness would be similar but for simplicity you can just
put 24V in the injector and not connect 4,5,7,8 on either CAT5. 
 Now I think about this, this is what I'd probably do and just use
a single 800-GigE-PoE top and bottom.

On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 9:17 AM Matt mailto:matt.mailingli...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I have a case where I need to power up two separate Cambium 24
volt
SMs on rooftop but only need 100base to each.  Its very
difficult to
run the second wire at this location which I need. Anyone know
of way
to split the cat5 at bottom and top to do this?  Not likely but
thought I would ask.

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Re: [AFMUG] Waveguide Makes a Comeback in 5G—for Antennas | Electronic Design

2020-01-29 Thread Cameron Crum

They said about 12 dBi gain from that omni which is pretty impressive for
an omni. I guess if you have enough of them, it won't matter too much. I'm
guessing these go with little pico-pops in an indoor type environment.

On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 9:28 AM  wrote:

> The one on the right looks like a dielectrically loaded V pol slot
> antenna.  (On slots, the slot direction is opposite the polarization).
> Similar to a collinear coax design.
>
> Narrow V pattern, low gain, mm waves, people moving around with super low
> gain antennas in their phones.  Am I the only one that does not think this
> will work well?
>
> *From:* Cameron Crum
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 29, 2020 8:05 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Waveguide Makes a Comeback in 5G—for Antennas |
> Electronic Design
>
> Very cool. The antennas I made for my wisp years ago were all slotted wave
> guides and 1 horn. Easy to make, simple materials, little to nothing to
> fail. These are obviously more advanced combining, those with active
> components, and other techniques, but it's cool to see it.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 8:07 AM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> https://www.electronicdesign.com/industrial-automation/article/21121326/waveguide-makes-a-comeback-in-5gfor-antennas
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Cambium POE Splitter


  
  
I have been in a number of homes where the original wiring
  install used one cat5 cable to feed two ports. False economy in my
  mind, but they all functioned as "normal" cat5 at 100BaseT. I
  think the number of twists is primarily to suppress cross talk.

bp



On 1/28/2020 7:32 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


  
  
  
  
Each pair has a different number of twists
  per inch.  In Cat5 and Cat5e cable I observe the green and
  orange pairs, which are the data pairs, have the tightest
  twists.  I don’t remember if Cat6 is similar.  This leads me
  to believe the blue and brown pairs may have inferior
  crosstalk performance.  But GigE uses all 4 pairs for data, so
  my theory is probably wrong.  I guess the important thing is
  that none of the pairs have the same number of twists.
 
The reason I mention this is sometimes I
  see people assert that if you split a Cat5 cable into 2 as is
  being discussed, it will hurt the performance.
 
From: AF
   On Behalf Of Forrest
  Christian (List Account)
  Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 5:24 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
  
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium POE Splitter
 

  This is actually pretty simple:
  
 
  
  
Split the CAT5 into two, two pairs per
  radio, put the pairs on the data line.   At the bottom use
  a 24V gigabit capable injector which puts the power on the
  data pairs.  We have a couple at PacketFlux, Chuck makes a
  couple, and there are others available.   The goal here is
  to get the 24V riding the data line along with the data. 
    So effectively you have two 10/100 capable links up with
  power on them.
  
  
 
  
  
At the top, you reverse the
  process  get a device which will pull the power off of
  the data pairs, probably one of them from Chuck.   (See
  800-GigE-PoE as an example).   Plug the cable from the
  bottom in the PoE port, then build yourself a cable for
  the radio which puts the extracted power on 4,5,7,8 and
  the data pins where they belong.
  
  
 
  
  
You could also use a single midspan
  Gigabit PoE injector at the bottom with power on all 4
  pairs, then remove it using a similar one at the top. 
   Then your long CAT5 stays unsplit, and the splitting and
  PoE mess is all in a single cable harness.   To do this
  you'd take two cat5 cables, and then wire the 1,2,3,6
  pairs from each cable into a single RJ45 (putting one on
  1,2,3,6 and the other on 4,5,7,8) which gets plugged into
  the non-PoE side of the extractor.   Then the remaining
  4,5,7,8 wires you'd connect to the power which came out of
  the PoE extractor at the top.     The bottom harness would
  be similar but for simplicity you can just put 24V in the
  injector and not connect 4,5,7,8 on either CAT5.   Now I
  think about this, this is what I'd probably do and just
  use a single 800-GigE-PoE top and bottom.
  

 

  
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 9:17 AM Matt
  
  wrote:
  
  
I have a case where I need to power up
  two separate Cambium 24 volt
  SMs on rooftop but only need 100base to each.  Its very
  difficult to
  run the second wire at this location which I need.  Anyone
  know of way
  to split the cat5 at bottom and top to do this?  Not
  likely but
  thought I would ask.
  
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Re: [AFMUG] WIFI and 4mb Speedtest.net

Id like a combined electric/water test to run when some of our customers
are in the shower

On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 9:25 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> 240v x 200A = 48KVA  Yet I see a lot of 15KVA transformers out there.
>
> I think the electric "speed test" would set a lot of transformers on
> fire.  At least they'll know they got what they paid for.
>
>
> On 1/28/2020 9:19 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
>
> You can say and publish 'Up-to' all you want.  All the customer hears is
> 'guaranteed on my test, no matter what else I'm doing'
>
> What I really want is a device that would connect up to the customers
> electric mains, so they can test that they're really getting their 200A
> electric service multiple times a day.  Or to test their water service
> delivery, randomly, hopefully while they're in the shower.
>
> On 1/28/2020 8:08 PM, Darin Steffl wrote:
>
> If there's no actual issue besides a test showing "I don't get what I pay
> for", refer them to the up-to explanation for residential service. It
> should be in everyone's TOS and list the 50+ variables of why a speedtest
> won't always be perfect or accurate.
>
> On Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 8:00 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> You can't win.
>>
>> I had to tell one customer we would only troubleshoot speedtest.net or
>> fast.com results, he was using some automatic speedtest and then
>> reviewing the report and complaining he wasn't getting what he was paying
>> for (our traffic graphs and preseem graphs say otherwise).  He was using
>> something like testmy.net.
>>
>> This is a new thing, I'm waiting for speedtests that automatically
>> complain to the ISP and demand a refund.  Even if everything works fine
>> including streaming.
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 7:37 PM
>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WIFI and 4mb Speedtest.net
>>
>> On 1/28/20 17:24, Josh Baird wrote:
>> > That's great and all, but most users will go to speedtest.net
>> >  by default.  This is why you should consider
>> > running your own Ookla server.
>>
>>
>> We dealt with that by having a policy of not supporting speedtest.net
>> results, and direct them to the test we will support.
>>
>> --
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>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Waveguide Makes a Comeback in 5G—for Antennas | Electronic Design

The one on the right looks like a dielectrically loaded V pol slot antenna.  
(On slots, the slot direction is opposite the polarization).  Similar to a 
collinear coax design.  

Narrow V pattern, low gain, mm waves, people moving around with super low gain 
antennas in their phones.  Am I the only one that does not think this will work 
well?

From: Cameron Crum 
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 8:05 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Waveguide Makes a Comeback in 5G—for Antennas | Electronic 
Design

Very cool. The antennas I made for my wisp years ago were all slotted wave 
guides and 1 horn. Easy to make, simple materials, little to nothing to fail. 
These are obviously more advanced combining, those with active components, and 
other techniques, but it's cool to see it.  



On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 8:07 AM Jaime Solorza  wrote:

  
https://www.electronicdesign.com/industrial-automation/article/21121326/waveguide-makes-a-comeback-in-5gfor-antennas
 
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Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape

Its got embedded sea monkey eggs, when they get wet they come alive and
drink the water

On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 8:57 AM Matt  wrote:

> So how does dry tape work anyway?  I assumed it had some dry powder
> type glue in it and when exposed to water absorbed and cured blocking
> further passage of water?  But not at all sure?
>
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Re: [AFMUG] WIFI and 4mb Speedtest.net

240v x 200A = 48KVA  Yet I see a lot of 15KVA transformers out there.

I think the electric "speed test" would set a lot of transformers on 
fire.  At least they'll know they got what they paid for.

On 1/28/2020 9:19 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
You can say and publish 'Up-to' all you want.  All the customer hears 
is 'guaranteed on my test, no matter what else I'm doing'

What I really want is a device that would connect up to the customers 
electric mains, so they can test that they're really getting their 
200A electric service multiple times a day.  Or to test their water 
service delivery, randomly, hopefully while they're in the shower.

On 1/28/2020 8:08 PM, Darin Steffl wrote:
If there's no actual issue besides a test showing "I don't get what I 
pay for", refer them to the up-to explanation for residential 
service. It should be in everyone's TOS and list the 50+ variables of 
why a speedtest won't always be perfect or accurate.

On Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 8:00 PM Ken Hohhof > wrote:

You can't win.

I had to tell one customer we would only troubleshoot
speedtest.net  or fast.com
 results, he was using some automatic speedtest
and then reviewing the report and complaining he wasn't getting
what he was paying for (our traffic graphs and preseem graphs say
otherwise).  He was using something like testmy.net
.

This is a new thing, I'm waiting for speedtests that
automatically complain to the ISP and demand a refund.  Even if
everything works fine including streaming.

-Original Message-
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 7:37 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WIFI and 4mb Speedtest.net

On 1/28/20 17:24, Josh Baird wrote:
> That's great and all, but most users will go to speedtest.net

>  by default. This is why you should consider
> running your own Ookla server.

We dealt with that by having a policy of not supporting
speedtest.net  results, and direct them to
the test we will support.

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Re: [AFMUG] RackMount Devices - Handles or No Handles

Yeah, I used to hate cage nuts, but when you get to a site with a bag 
full of the wrong screws you start to wonder if you shouldn't have used 
cage nuts.


In other news.what tool for cage nuts?  Have I been doing it the 
hard way?



On 1/28/2020 8:05 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


New stuff I try to use M6, but I have lots of telco racks and telco 
stuff is all 12-24 (probably even to this day).


I’m sure there’s some 10-32 and M5 screws around also, but being an 
old telco industry guy, I consider those too wimpy.  I guess I accept 
the 10-32 stuff as legacy IT rack standard just like 12-24 is legacy 
telco rack standard.  Anything I do metric is new, so M5 just doesn’t 
make sense.  Luckily most new stuff has the square holes so I just 
need a bag of M6 cage nuts.  Now if I could just find my tool for 
inserting and extracting cage nuts.


What I hate is stripping the threads in an old rack because I think 
it’s one size and it’s another.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Mark Radabaugh
*Sent:* Tuesday, January 28, 2020 6:18 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] RackMount Devices - Handles or No Handles

ug… no wonder this ends up aggravating me on a regular basis.  I think 
we settled on 12-24 for the majority of the equipment we have.


Mark



On Jan 28, 2020, at 6:06 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account)
mailto:li...@packetflux.com>> wrote:

There are actually four standards:



Even better, the *two* active standards (IEC_60927-3-100 and
IEA/ECA-310) each have a preferred thread sizes.   The IEC
standard prefers M6x1, and the IEA/ECA standard prefers M5.

I'm assuming that you're talking about either a M5 or a M6 screw,
not a non-metric 10-32 or 12-24.

On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 8:53 AM Mark Radabaugh mailto:m...@amplex.net>> wrote:

Not a big concern for us. If you get rid of the handles please
leave a tapped hole in the center of the 1U bracket that
matches the common rack screw (there are two standards - pick
one) to use as a jack screw if the unit is being stubborn
coming out of the rack.

Mark



On Jan 28, 2020, at 9:13 AM, Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:

I can live without handles.

Not really a big deal unless it’s a super long, heavy
server, and those typically go in 4 post racks or cabinets
anyway with rear access.

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Jason Wilson
*Sent:* Tuesday, January 28, 2020 1:24 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] RackMount Devices - Handles or No
Handles

Make keyholes for handles?  If you happen to need them
slide them on. Removeable. Keep 1 set in the go bag.

On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 10:09 PM Forrest Christian (List
Account) mailto:li...@packetflux.com>> wrote:

I'm wondering if anyone has strong opinions about
handles on rackmount devices.

I'm in the process of switching the enclosure
manufacturer on the RackInjector and in the process
making some design changes that should make things
better for both us and our customers.  I don't want to
share too much just in case this doesn't work out -
and no, this isn't a change to hot-swappable cards.

With the design we're working on, the handles we have
on the front of the existing enclosure aren't very
easy to implement in the new design.   So I'm thinking
about just dropping them to save the
hassle/pain/shipping issues/cost/etc/etc/etc.

My personal experience has been that although handles
on enclosures are nice when removing a device from a
rack, they are by no means necessary.   On occasion,
I've also had handles become a liability instead of a
help.   But on the other hand, when a device gets
stuck in a rack (typically due to neighboring
devices), it is nice to have them to add leverage when
removing the enclosure.

I'm wondering what everyone else's thoughts on this are...

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Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.

530-651-1736

530-748-9608 Cell

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Re: [AFMUG] OT: OTA Antennas again

2020-01-29 Thread Nate Burke

Using the FCC tool, https://www.fcc.gov/media/engineering/dtvmaps it 
looks like all my stations are in UHF, except for one that is 'Hi-V'.  
RF Channel range is from channel 12-35.


All the transmitters I need are within 3 degrees, coming off either 
Hancock or Willis in Downtown Chicago.  Half the channels are in 'Strong 
Signal' the other half are in 'Moderate' Signal, so I'd think the more 
gain the better.   I tried one of the super cheap 1'x1' indoor flat 
panel antennas, it can pickup about 2 channels, some of the time.


On 1/28/2020 9:22 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
What kind of bandwidth do you need from the lowest to the highest 
channel?


I would assume all desired channels are in the UHF band.
Yagi's are great for a channel or three, but they are inherently 
narrow band.


A wide band log perodic will give you the most signal but do you 
really need that much signal?


I recently purchased a dipole in front of a reflector from Home Depot 
and I actually have too much signal.
I am only 5 miles away ( and one mile below) the majority of the 
transmitters, but I have tons of signal.


https://www.homedepot.com/p/RCA-Attic-Outdoor-Compact-Design-HDTV-Antenna-ANT705E/303087505 



BTW, I left off the VHF dipole during assembly on purpose.  Very few 
areas have actual VHF tv transmitters any more.


-Original Message- From: Nate Burke
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 7:37 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: OTA Antennas again

I know it's been brought up in the past, but I'm too lazy to go look
through the archives.

What good OTA Antennas are out there now?  Is channel master still the
gold standard?  Looking to mount inside an attic.  35 miles to the
transmitter across water, and through a couple sand dunes and a forest
(NW Indiana across lake Michigan to Chicago)

Looks like there are square and yagi antennas.  The Yagi antennas say
'line of sight'  Does that really mean LOS like we think of LOS, or LOS
as in it has to be aimed at the receiver?

Has to go in the attic because my mom says 'anything that goes on the
roof will leak', but she's ready to dump Comcast because they keep
raising her price and taking away her channels (last straw was them
pulling TCM from her package).  I was at least smart enough to put in a
conduit from the attic to the basement when they built the house. Yagi
might be hard to aim in the attic.  Would it work just the same on a
post in the yard, or does the extra 15' of height to the attic really 
help.





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Re: [AFMUG] Waveguide Makes a Comeback in 5G—for Antennas | Electronic Design

2020-01-29 Thread Cameron Crum

Very cool. The antennas I made for my wisp years ago were all slotted wave
guides and 1 horn. Easy to make, simple materials, little to nothing to
fail. These are obviously more advanced combining, those with active
components, and other techniques, but it's cool to see it.

On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 8:07 AM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

>
> https://www.electronicdesign.com/industrial-automation/article/21121326/waveguide-makes-a-comeback-in-5gfor-antennas
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape

2020-01-29 Thread Matt

So how does dry tape work anyway?  I assumed it had some dry powder
type glue in it and when exposed to water absorbed and cured blocking
further passage of water?  But not at all sure?

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Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape

we started using this apex 9 stuff on residential, I think its shireen
rebranded, i dont know. We have recently started taking the risk of using
it on POPs instead of the BBDGE simply for cost savings, we will probably
come to regret it when we are pulling it all out and putting BBDGE back in
like we did with the BBDNE. To concept seems solid wit the embedded tape,
but it also makes me wonder if it absorbs the water and when it freezes it
will damage the copper.

On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 8:23 AM  wrote:

> If I can assist anyone with any concerns, please feel free to ask
>
> g...@shireeninc.com
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 9:08 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape
>
> > This is a little off the subject but more to do with water migration.
> >
> > Decades of working with coaxial cable on towers has taught me that a
> small
> cut out of the jacket at the bottom of a drop loop before entering a
> shelter
> or cabinet goes a long way to preventing water migration into connectors.
>
> I put a new connector on and do that on runs that have gotten water in
> them.
> Just hate to do it on a good run but its a good point.  Always leave a
> generous service loop now days to make this possible.
>
>
> >
> > Water is a lot like electricity... Always seeking the path of least
> resistance.
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 8:06 PM Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I agree. We've been using the shireen stuff on towers for awhile. If
> there's a bad enough leak, it will eventually make it to the bottom, but
> it's definitely better than nothing.
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 4:51 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> We use the Shireen stuff.  I'd rate the dry gel tape as good not great.
> >>> It's certainly better than the Belden we used to use, which has a
> >>> cellophane like wrap that seems to guide the water all the way to
> >>> the RJ45 at the bottom.
> >>>
> >>> The tape gets soggy, it doesn't turn into water blocking gel like in
> >>> a gel filled cable.  I'm not sure how I feel about some soggy tape
> >>> inside the cable 100 feet up, but I don't think I've experienced
> >>> drops of water coming out the bottom of any of the Shireen cable.
> >>> You absolutely do want to tape or otherwise weatherproof the ends of
> >>> any spare cables though, or they will absorb water and you'll have
> >>> to cut off several feet if you ever want to terminate and use them.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -Original Message-
> >>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 4:16 PM
> >>> To: af@af.afmug.com
> >>> Subject: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape
> >>>
> >>> Has anyone used shielded cat5 up tower with water blocking dry tape?
> >>> Does it work very well in case of water intrusion?
> >>>
> >>> Once in rare while we will get a run with water in it.  I always
> >>> think when it happens someone did something wrong on install but a
> >>> real pain when it happens.
> >>>
> >>> --
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Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Water Blocking Dry Tape