Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Tim Hardy]

My read is the RV Park is on very shaky ground here.  Most RVs and trucks now 
have fixed antennas underneath radomes on the roof.  There’s just no basis for 
restricting one from receiving satellite signals through these antennas - as 
Chuck commented, are you going to knock on their door to ensure they are 
complying with this bogus restriction?  Where does it stop, what about cellular 
signals or LEOs with smaller terminals? If the park is somehow enforcing this 
rule, they are a prime target for a petition to the FCC. If this happens, 99 
out of 100 of those petitioned back down as they could end up being liable for 
legal fees on both sides.

Finally, from the FCC’s main OTARD information page there’s this:

Q:  Does the rule apply to commercial property or only residential property?

A:  Nothing in the rule excludes antennas installed on commercial property.  
The rule applies to property used for commercial purposes in the same way it 
applies to residential property.


https://www.fcc.gov/media/over-air-reception-devices-rule 



> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:44 PM, Matt Hoppes  
> wrote:
> 
> I’m still confused. What’s the issue?
> 
> Tractor paying for night. In spot. Paying for WiFi. 
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:43 PM, Matt Hoppes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I don’t get your question. 
>> 
>> They can come in. Pay for a space. Stay the night and buy WiFi. 
>> 
>> What is the issue?
>> 
>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:41 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> I guess I should have said tractor.  
>>> -Original Message- From: Seth Mattinen Sent: Thursday, June 11, 
>>> 2020 7:22 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber 
> On 6/11/20 6:10 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
 Who said anything about the middle of the road?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I think he's thinking they always come with a trailer and therefore 
>>> wouldn't fit in a space.
>>> 
>>> -- 
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[AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

[Gino A. Villarini]

Friends & Colleagues, Help me reach 100 subs on my Youtube channel so I can 
have a url!

Gigabits & Gigahertz is a vlog with industry content for all to enjoy.

I hope it brings value to you all. Comments and suggestions welcomed!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-qjRCvu2lNt89xaXppPIEQ/


Gino Villarini
Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Matt Hoppes]

Hotspots are also restricted.

It’s not a matter of what’s legal or not via OTARD. No one comes into this not 
being aware of what the rules are. Nothing preclude a private contract from 
prohibiting someone from using a satellite antenna, you can agree or not agree 
to the contract.

I suppose if one of the campers wanted to fight it they probably could. We just 
provide the Wi-Fi the campsite makes the rules.

> On Jun 12, 2020, at 7:56 AM, Tim Hardy  wrote:
> 
> My read is the RV Park is on very shaky ground here.  Most RVs and trucks 
> now have fixed antennas underneath radomes on the roof.  There’s just no 
> basis for restricting one from receiving satellite signals through these 
> antennas - as Chuck commented, are you going to knock on their door to ensure 
> they are complying with this bogus restriction?  Where does it stop, what 
> about cellular signals or LEOs with smaller terminals? If the park is somehow 
> enforcing this rule, they are a prime target for a petition to the FCC. If 
> this happens, 99 out of 100 of those petitioned back down as they could end 
> up being liable for legal fees on both sides.
> 
> Finally, from the FCC’s main OTARD information page there’s this:
> 
> Q:  Does the rule apply to commercial property or only residential property?
> 
> A:  Nothing in the rule excludes antennas installed on commercial property.  
> The rule applies to property used for commercial purposes in the same way it 
> applies to residential property.
> 
> 
> https://www.fcc.gov/media/over-air-reception-devices-rule
> 
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:44 PM, Matt Hoppes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I’m still confused. What’s the issue?
>> 
>> Tractor paying for night. In spot. Paying for WiFi. 
>> 
>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:43 PM, Matt Hoppes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I don’t get your question. 
>>> 
>>> They can come in. Pay for a space. Stay the night and buy WiFi. 
>>> 
>>> What is the issue?
>>> 
 On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:41 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
 
 I guess I should have said tractor.  
 -Original Message- From: Seth Mattinen Sent: Thursday, June 11, 
 2020 7:22 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber 
>> On 6/11/20 6:10 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> Who said anything about the middle of the road?
 
 
 I think he's thinking they always come with a trailer and therefore 
 wouldn't fit in a space.
 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

[Mike Hammett]

Mine too. ;-) Well, we alreadyh ave the custom URL, but appreciate the subs 
anyway. :-) 


http://www.youtube.com/c/TheBrothersWISP 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Gino A. Villarini"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 6:57:18 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP! 



Friends & Colleagues, Help me reach 100 subs on my Youtube channel so I can 
have a url! 

Gigabits & Gigahertz is a vlog with industry content for all to enjoy. 

I hope it brings value to you all. Comments and suggestions welcomed! 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-qjRCvu2lNt89xaXppPIEQ/ 

Gino Villarini 
Founder/President 
@gvillarini 
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204 

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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Mike Hammett]

I don't think anyone has an issue with this, but you. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Matt Hoppes"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 8:44:44 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber 

I’m still confused. What’s the issue? 

Tractor paying for night. In spot. Paying for WiFi. 

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:43 PM, Matt Hoppes  
> wrote: 
> 
> I don’t get your question. 
> 
> They can come in. Pay for a space. Stay the night and buy WiFi. 
> 
> What is the issue? 
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:41 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: 
>> 
>> I guess I should have said tractor. 
>> -Original Message- From: Seth Mattinen Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 
>> 7:22 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber 
 On 6/11/20 6:10 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: 
>>> Who said anything about the middle of the road? 
>> 
>> 
>> I think he's thinking they always come with a trailer and therefore wouldn't 
>> fit in a space. 
>> 
>> -- 
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>> AF@af.afmug.com 
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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Mark Radabaugh]

> On Jun 12, 2020, at 8:08 AM, Matt Hoppes  
> wrote:
> 
> Hotspots are also restricted.

Now that one will get them into a shitload of trouble, especially if you try to 
actively block them:   
https://www.fcc.gov/document/marriott-pay-600k-resolve-wifi-blocking-investigation
 


Only cost Marriott $600,000 when the FCC wanted to make an example of them.

Mark

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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Chuck McCown]

So, a guest of the park signs an agreement not to turn on a personal hotspot on 
their phone?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 12, 2020, at 6:08 AM, Matt Hoppes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hotspots are also restricted.
> 
> It’s not a matter of what’s legal or not via OTARD. No one comes into this 
> not being aware of what the rules are. Nothing preclude a private contract 
> from prohibiting someone from using a satellite antenna, you can agree or not 
> agree to the contract.
> 
> I suppose if one of the campers wanted to fight it they probably could. We 
> just provide the Wi-Fi the campsite makes the rules.
> 
>>> On Jun 12, 2020, at 7:56 AM, Tim Hardy  wrote:
>>> 
>> My read is the RV Park is on very shaky ground here.  Most RVs and trucks 
>> now have fixed antennas underneath radomes on the roof.  There’s just no 
>> basis for restricting one from receiving satellite signals through these 
>> antennas - as Chuck commented, are you going to knock on their door to 
>> ensure they are complying with this bogus restriction?  Where does it stop, 
>> what about cellular signals or LEOs with smaller terminals? If the park is 
>> somehow enforcing this rule, they are a prime target for a petition to the 
>> FCC. If this happens, 99 out of 100 of those petitioned back down as they 
>> could end up being liable for legal fees on both sides.
>> 
>> Finally, from the FCC’s main OTARD information page there’s this:
>> 
>> Q:  Does the rule apply to commercial property or only residential property?
>> 
>> A:  Nothing in the rule excludes antennas installed on commercial property.  
>> The rule applies to property used for commercial purposes in the same way it 
>> applies to residential property.
>> 
>> 
>> https://www.fcc.gov/media/over-air-reception-devices-rule
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:44 PM, Matt Hoppes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I’m still confused. What’s the issue?
>>> 
>>> Tractor paying for night. In spot. Paying for WiFi. 
>>> 
 On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:43 PM, Matt Hoppes 
  wrote:
 
 I don’t get your question. 
 
 They can come in. Pay for a space. Stay the night and buy WiFi. 
 
 What is the issue?
 
> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:41 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> 
> I guess I should have said tractor.  
> -Original Message- From: Seth Mattinen Sent: Thursday, June 11, 
> 2020 7:22 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber 
>>> On 6/11/20 6:10 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>> Who said anything about the middle of the road?
> 
> 
> I think he's thinking they always come with a trailer and therefore 
> wouldn't fit in a space.
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 
> -- 
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>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

[Gino A. Villarini]

Done

From: AF  on behalf of Mike Hammett 
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Date: Friday, June 12, 2020 at 8:31 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

Mine too.  ;-)  Well, we alreadyh ave the custom URL, but appreciate the subs 
anyway.  :-)

http://www.youtube.com/c/TheBrothersWISP



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[Image removed by sender.][Image removed by 
sender.][Image 
removed by 
sender.][Image
 removed by sender.]
Midwest Internet Exchange
[Image removed by sender.][Image removed by 
sender.][Image 
removed by sender.]
The Brothers WISP
[Image removed by sender.][Image 
removed by sender.]




From: "Gino A. Villarini" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 6:57:18 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!
Friends & Colleagues, Help me reach 100 subs on my Youtube channel so I can 
have a url!

Gigabits & Gigahertz is a vlog with industry content for all to enjoy.

I hope it brings value to you all. Comments and suggestions welcomed!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-qjRCvu2lNt89xaXppPIEQ/


Gino Villarini
Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Adam Moffett]

Wow this thread blew up while I was sleeping.

I'm proposing both a wireless and fiber solution.  I'm sure they'll pick 
WiFi because it'll be cheaper, but I wanted to put all the cards on the 
table.


As far as why I'm bothering to propose fiber:

1) If there's fiber to the power pedestal, and each ped (or every other 
ped) has it's own little router with it's own SSID and key, then there's 
a security benefit vs having everybody in the park be able to sniff 
traffic from each other's devices.


2) We could track any illegal/bad/weird activity to a specific RV site 
(or at least to the proximity of one).


3) The changing positions and occupancy of RV sites won't affect 
anybody's WiFi because their WiFi will be right next to them no matter 
what.  Neither will the growth of trees hurt them.


4) No capacity issue in the park (and the feed TO the park can of course 
always be upgraded).


5) Infinitely upgrade-able.

6) We have all the equipment and personnel and we want to use them.  
There's an indefinite amount of work for them expanding and improving 
our own network, but if they do it for the campground we can bill them out.


-Adam



On 6/11/2020 5:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Why are you doing fiber?

We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over 
the Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.


It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to 
the sectors that cover several RV campers.



On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:



Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's 
part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal. I just thought it 
would be nice to have the option to plug in a cable.


I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV 
power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.



Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might give 
me a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two 
keystone jacks in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach 
are that each RV gets their own WiFi instead of sharing it with 
everybody around them, and if there was ever a law enforcement issue 
we could track the usage to a particular site rather than just 
"somewhere in the park".



On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections 
and doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   
Don't even carry and ethernet cable...


On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?

I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post 
next to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be 
able to plug Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to 
do so.  And if they don't then they have their own private WiFi 
right outside their RV.


of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this 
together, but I'm betting someone must have made a product for this 
already.







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Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

[Jaime Solorza]

I am 103!

On Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 7:53 AM Gino A. Villarini  wrote:

> Done
>
>
>
> *From: *AF  on behalf of Mike Hammett <
> af...@ics-il.net>
> *Reply-To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Date: *Friday, June 12, 2020 at 8:31 AM
> *To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!
>
>
>
> Mine too.  ;-)  Well, we alreadyh ave the custom URL, but appreciate the
> subs anyway.  :-)
>
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/c/TheBrothersWISP
>
>
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> [image: Image removed by sender.] [image:
> Image removed by sender.]
> [image:
> Image removed by sender.]
> [image:
> Image removed by sender.] 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> [image: Image removed by sender.] [image:
> Image removed by sender.]
> [image: Image
> removed by sender.] 
> The Brothers WISP 
> [image: Image removed by sender.]
> [image: Image removed by
> sender.]
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Gino A. Villarini" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Friday, June 12, 2020 6:57:18 AM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!
>
> Friends & Colleagues, Help me reach 100 subs on my Youtube channel so I
> can have a url!
>
>
>
> Gigabits & Gigahertz is a vlog with industry content for all to enjoy.
>
>
>
> I hope it brings value to you all. Comments and suggestions welcomed!
>
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-qjRCvu2lNt89xaXppPIEQ/
> 
>
>
>
> *Gino* *Villarini *
> Founder/President
> @gvillarini
> t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
>
> [image: Image removed by sender. aeronet-logo] 
>
> [image: Image removed by sender. inc500]
> 
>
> [image: Image removed by sender. fb-logo]
> 
>
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> 
>
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> 
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> 
>
>
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> 
>
> [image: Image removed by sender.] 
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Robert]

It _is_ a matter of what's legal or not.   LAWS preclude a private 
contract...  Whoa, you need to understand how the whole system works.   
Otherwise there would be a ton of contracts precluding certain races 
from buying in certain neighborhoods.. Or from riding certain buses.   
That RV park owner is just begging for a lawsuit at this point.   *I 
don't think you should be taking his/her side on any of this as it could 
include you in the liability*


On 6/12/20 5:08 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Hotspots are also restricted.

It’s not a matter of what’s legal or not via OTARD. No one comes into 
this not being aware of what the rules are. Nothing preclude a private 
contract from prohibiting someone from using a satellite antenna, you 
can agree or not agree to the contract.


I suppose if one of the campers wanted to fight it they probably 
could. We just provide the Wi-Fi the campsite makes the rules.



On Jun 12, 2020, at 7:56 AM, Tim Hardy  wrote:

 My read is the RV Park is on very shaky ground here.  Most RVs and 
trucks now have fixed antennas underneath radomes on the roof. 
 There’s just no basis for restricting one from receiving satellite 
signals through these antennas - as Chuck commented, are you going to 
knock on their door to ensure they are complying with this bogus 
restriction?  Where does it stop, what about cellular signals or LEOs 
with smaller terminals? If the park is somehow enforcing this rule, 
they are a prime target for a petition to the FCC. If this happens, 
99 out of 100 of those petitioned back down as they could end up 
being liable for legal fees on both sides.


Finally, from the FCC’s main OTARD information page there’s this:

*Q:  Does the rule apply to commercial property or only residential 
property?*


*sort by A: *Nothing in the rule excludes antennas installed on 
commercial property.  The rule applies to property used for 
commercial purposes in the same way it applies to residential property.



https://www.fcc.gov/media/over-air-reception-devices-rule


On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:44 PM, Matt Hoppes 
> wrote:


I’m still confused. What’s the issue?

Tractor paying for night. In spot. Paying for WiFi.

On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:43 PM, Matt Hoppes 
> wrote:


I don’t get your question.

They can come in. Pay for a space. Stay the night and buy WiFi.

What is the issue?

On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:41 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com 
 wrote:


I guess I should have said tractor.
-Original Message- From: Seth Mattinen Sent: Thursday, 
June 11, 2020 7:22 PM To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

On 6/11/20 6:10 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com  wrote:

Who said anything about the middle of the road?



I think he's thinking they always come with a trailer and 
therefore wouldn't fit in a space.


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Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

[Jay Weekley]

I subscribed to you both.  I hadn't heard anything about the Brothers 
Wisp in a while.  Glad content is still being produced.


Jaime Solorza wrote:

I am 103!

On Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 7:53 AM Gino A. Villarini > wrote:


Done

*From: *AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> on behalf of Mike Hammett
mailto:af...@ics-il.net>>
*Reply-To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Date: *Friday, June 12, 2020 at 8:31 AM
*To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

Mine too.  ;-)  Well, we alreadyh ave the custom URL, but
appreciate the subs anyway.  :-)

http://www.youtube.com/c/TheBrothersWISP



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
Image removed by sender. Image
removed by sender.
Image
removed by sender.
Image
removed by sender. 
Midwest Internet Exchange 
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removed by sender.
Image
removed by sender. 
The Brothers WISP 
Image removed by sender.
Image removed by sender.






*From: *"Gino A. Villarini" mailto:g...@aeronetpr.com>>
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Sent: *Friday, June 12, 2020 6:57:18 AM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

Friends & Colleagues, Help me reach 100 subs on my Youtube channel
so I can have a url!

Gigabits & Gigahertz is a vlog with industry content for all to
enjoy.

I hope it brings value to you all. Comments and suggestions welcomed!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-qjRCvu2lNt89xaXppPIEQ/



*GinoVillarini **
*Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204

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Re: [AFMUG] I need your HELP!

[Dennis Burgess via AF]

Guess I can’t get anyone to subscribe to mine, since we are asking 😊  
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIPCmnxlC5Ds7MphT_gCcuA/


[LTI-Full_175px]
Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium ePMP Certified
Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
Office: 314-735-0270  Website: 
http://www.linktechs.net
Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com

From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 7:30 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

Mine too.  ;-)  Well, we alreadyh ave the custom URL, but appreciate the subs 
anyway.  :-)

http://www.youtube.com/c/TheBrothersWISP



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing 
Solutions
[https://imsva91-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.ics%2dil.com%2fimages%2ffbicon.png%5d&umid=88C543E6-A7E3-9205-AEAB-CC337384FE38&auth=079c058f437b7c6303d36c6513e5e8848d0c5ac4-1dad0e2d3a4d891975a77154df57af29cf6c53fc[https://imsva91-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.ics%2dil.com%2fimages%2fgoogleicon.png%5d&umid=88C543E6-A7E3-9205-AEAB-CC337384FE38&auth=079c058f437b7c6303d36c6513e5e8848d0c5ac4-7f7055f3d06f51a4eeb7681b1fa39ab12892f46c[https://imsva91-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.ics%2dil.com%2fimages%2flinkedinicon.png%5d&umid=88C543E6-A7E3-9205-AEAB-CC337384FE38&auth=079c058f437b7c6303d36c6513e5e8848d0c5ac4-ebe938200f84d23f880667377e7d46b6d9077371[https://imsva91-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.ics%2dil.com%2fimages%2ftwittericon.png%5d&umid=88C543E6-A7E3-9205-AEAB-CC337384FE38&auth=079c058f437b7c6303d36c6513e5e8848d0c5ac4-233fe00ac3b92f45507dc9e3af5b2d2102128717
Midwest Internet Exchange
[https://imsva91-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.ics%2dil.com%2fimages%2ffbicon.png%5d&umid=88C543E6-A7E3-9205-AEAB-CC337384FE38&auth=079c058f437b7c6303d36c6513e5e8848d0c5ac4-1dad0e2d3a4d891975a77154df57af29cf6c53fc[https://imsva91-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.ics%2dil.com%2fimages%2flinkedinicon.png%5d&umid=88C543E6-A7E3-9205-AEAB-CC337384FE38&auth=079c058f437b7c6303d36c6513e5e8848d0c5ac4-ebe938200f84d23f880667377e7d46b6d9077371[https://imsva91-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.ics%2dil.com%2fimages%2ftwittericon.png%5d&umid=88C543E6-A7E3-9205-AEAB-CC337384FE38&auth=079c058f437b7c6303d36c6513e5e8848d0c5ac4-233fe00ac3b92f45507dc9e3af5b2d2102128717
The Brothers WISP
[https://imsva91-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.ics%2dil.com%2fimages%2ffbicon.png%5d&umid=88C543E6-A7E3-9205-AEAB-CC337384FE38&auth=079c058f437b7c6303d36c6513e5e8848d0c5ac4-1dad0e2d3a4d891975a77154df57af29cf6c53fc[https://imsva91-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.ics%2dil.com%2fimages%2fyoutubeicon.png%5d&umid=88C543E6-A7E3-9205-AEAB-CC337384FE38&auth=079c058f437b7c6303d36c6513e5e8848d0c5ac4-bd8fc62b51a126c60fed53cb0eae5c80108e197f




From: "Gino A. Villarini" mailto:g...@aeronetpr.com>>
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 6:57:18 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!
Friends & Colleagues, Help me reach 100 subs on my Youtube channel so I can 
have a url!

Gigabits & Gigahertz is a vlog with industry content for all to enjoy.

I hope it brings value to you all. Comments and suggestions welcomed!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-qjRCvu2lNt89xaXppPIEQ/


Gino Villarini
Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Mark Radabaugh]

I like your solution actually.   Should work out well.   Hardest part with 
trailers is getting through the aluminum box.   Putting AP’s close will help a 
lot.

Mark

> On Jun 12, 2020, at 9:54 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
> 
> Wow this thread blew up while I was sleeping.
> 
> I'm proposing both a wireless and fiber solution.  I'm sure they'll pick WiFi 
> because it'll be cheaper, but I wanted to put all the cards on the table.
> 
> As far as why I'm bothering to propose fiber:
> 
> 1) If there's fiber to the power pedestal, and each ped (or every other ped) 
> has it's own little router with it's own SSID and key, then there's a 
> security benefit vs having everybody in the park be able to sniff traffic 
> from each other's devices.
> 
> 2) We could track any illegal/bad/weird activity to a specific RV site (or at 
> least to the proximity of one).
> 
> 3) The changing positions and occupancy of RV sites won't affect anybody's 
> WiFi because their WiFi will be right next to them no matter what.  Neither 
> will the growth of trees hurt them.
> 
> 4) No capacity issue in the park (and the feed TO the park can of course 
> always be upgraded).
> 
> 5) Infinitely upgrade-able.
> 
> 6) We have all the equipment and personnel and we want to use them.  There's 
> an indefinite amount of work for them expanding and improving our own 
> network, but if they do it for the campground we can bill them out.
> 
> -Adam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 6/11/2020 5:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>> Why are you doing fiber?
>> 
>> We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over the 
>> Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
>> 
>> It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to the 
>> sectors that cover several RV campers.
>> 
>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's part of 
>>> why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it would be nice 
>>> to have the option to plug in a cable. 
>>> 
>>> I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV power 
>>> ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/. 
>>>  
>>> Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might give me a 
>>> place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two keystone jacks 
>>> in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach are that each RV gets 
>>> their own WiFi instead of sharing it with everybody around them, and if 
>>> there was ever a law enforcement issue we could track the usage to a 
>>> particular site rather than just "somewhere in the park". 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
 As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections and 
 doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   Don't even 
 carry and ethernet cable... 
 
 On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote: 
> If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site? 
> 
> I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post next to 
> their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be able to plug 
> Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to do so.  And if 
> they don't then they have their own private WiFi right outside their RV. 
> 
> of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this together, but 
> I'm betting someone must have made a product for this already. 
> 
> 
> 
 
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>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com 
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>>> 
>> 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

[chuck]

Done.
I had to see how many subs I had.  77

From: Gino A. Villarini 
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 5:57 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

Friends & Colleagues, Help me reach 100 subs on my Youtube channel so I can 
have a url! 

 

Gigabits & Gigahertz is a vlog with industry content for all to enjoy. 

 

I hope it brings value to you all. Comments and suggestions welcomed!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-qjRCvu2lNt89xaXppPIEQ/

 

Gino Villarini 
Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204 
 

www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968




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Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

[chuck]

But I have 138 quora followers.  I care more about that number.

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 8:15 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

Done.
I had to see how many subs I had.  77

From: Gino A. Villarini 
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 5:57 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

Friends & Colleagues, Help me reach 100 subs on my Youtube channel so I can 
have a url! 

 

Gigabits & Gigahertz is a vlog with industry content for all to enjoy. 

 

I hope it brings value to you all. Comments and suggestions welcomed!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-qjRCvu2lNt89xaXppPIEQ/

 

Gino Villarini 
Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204 
 

www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968




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Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

[Jay Weekley]

78 now.

ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Done.
I had to see how many subs I had.  77
*From:* Gino A. Villarini
*Sent:* Friday, June 12, 2020 5:57 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

Friends & Colleagues, Help me reach 100 subs on my Youtube channel so 
I can have a url!


Gigabits & Gigahertz is a vlog with industry content for all to enjoy.

I hope it brings value to you all. Comments and suggestions welcomed!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-qjRCvu2lNt89xaXppPIEQ/ 



*GinoVillarini
*Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Ken Hohhof]

Makes you wonder if a wire and an alligator clip could turn the aluminum box 
into an antenna.

 

Yeah, fields & waves was not my best course in college.  And I have a fear of 
heights.  So of course I end up running a WISP.  But turning a Faraday cage 
into an antenna is probably not my best idea.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 9:07 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

 

I like your solution actually.   Should work out well.   Hardest part with 
trailers is getting through the aluminum box.   Putting AP’s close will help a 
lot.

 

Mark





On Jun 12, 2020, at 9:54 AM, Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

 

Wow this thread blew up while I was sleeping.

I'm proposing both a wireless and fiber solution.  I'm sure they'll pick WiFi 
because it'll be cheaper, but I wanted to put all the cards on the table.

As far as why I'm bothering to propose fiber:

1) If there's fiber to the power pedestal, and each ped (or every other ped) 
has it's own little router with it's own SSID and key, then there's a security 
benefit vs having everybody in the park be able to sniff traffic from each 
other's devices.

2) We could track any illegal/bad/weird activity to a specific RV site (or at 
least to the proximity of one).

3) The changing positions and occupancy of RV sites won't affect anybody's WiFi 
because their WiFi will be right next to them no matter what.  Neither will the 
growth of trees hurt them.

4) No capacity issue in the park (and the feed TO the park can of course always 
be upgraded).

5) Infinitely upgrade-able.

6) We have all the equipment and personnel and we want to use them.  There's an 
indefinite amount of work for them expanding and improving our own network, but 
if they do it for the campground we can bill them out.

-Adam

 

 

On 6/11/2020 5:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Why are you doing fiber?

 

We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over the 
Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.

 

It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to the 
sectors that cover several RV campers.





On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett   
 wrote:

 

Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's part of why 
I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it would be nice to have 
the option to plug in a cable. 

I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV power ped. 
http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.  
 


Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might give me a 
place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two keystone jacks in 
it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach are that each RV gets their 
own WiFi instead of sharing it with everybody around them, and if there was 
ever a law enforcement issue we could track the usage to a particular site 
rather than just "somewhere in the park". 

 

On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:

As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections and doing a 
hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   Don't even carry and 
ethernet cable... 

On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote: 



If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site? 

I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post next to their 
power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be able to plug Ethernet in 
at the box if they have the wherewithal to do so.  And if they don't then they 
have their own private WiFi right outside their RV. 

of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this together, but I'm 
betting someone must have made a product for this already. 




 

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Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

[Ken Hohhof]

So are you guys “influencers” now?

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 9:16 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

 

Done.

I had to see how many subs I had.  77

 

From: Gino A. Villarini 

Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 5:57 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

 

Friends & Colleagues, Help me reach 100 subs on my Youtube channel so I can 
have a url! 

 

Gigabits & Gigahertz is a vlog with industry content for all to enjoy. 

 

I hope it brings value to you all. Comments and suggestions welcomed!

 

 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-qjRCvu2lNt89xaXppPIEQ/

 

Gino Villarini 
Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204 


  

  

   

   

   

 

  

   



  
  www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 
Guaynabo, PR 00968

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Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

[chuck]

tnx

-Original Message- 
From: Jay Weekley

Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 8:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

78 now.

ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Done.
I had to see how many subs I had.  77
*From:* Gino A. Villarini
*Sent:* Friday, June 12, 2020 5:57 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

Friends & Colleagues, Help me reach 100 subs on my Youtube channel so I 
can have a url!


Gigabits & Gigahertz is a vlog with industry content for all to enjoy.

I hope it brings value to you all. Comments and suggestions welcomed!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-qjRCvu2lNt89xaXppPIEQ/ 



*GinoVillarini
*Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
aeronet-logo  inc500 
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*Cyber Broadband
*

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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Mark Radabaugh]

Hey, I was proud of that D in Microwave and Antenna systems :-)   D’s get 
degrees.   I’m never going to use this shit.   Take the EIT / PE exam?   Why 
the hell would I ever work as a consulting engineer.

Of course my first job is a consulting engineer, and I deal with microwaves and 
antenna systems every day.

Ah, to know then what I know now.   Just don’t make me do all this shit over 
again.

Mark

> On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:38 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> 
> Makes you wonder if a wire and an alligator clip could turn the aluminum box 
> into an antenna.
>  
> Yeah, fields & waves was not my best course in college.  And I have a fear of 
> heights.  So of course I end up running a WISP.  But turning a Faraday cage 
> into an antenna is probably not my best idea.
>  
>  
> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf 
> Of Mark Radabaugh
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 9:07 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  >
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>  
> I like your solution actually.   Should work out well.   Hardest part with 
> trailers is getting through the aluminum box.   Putting AP’s close will help 
> a lot.
>  
> Mark
> 
> 
>> On Jun 12, 2020, at 9:54 AM, Adam Moffett > > wrote:
>>  
>> Wow this thread blew up while I was sleeping.
>> I'm proposing both a wireless and fiber solution.  I'm sure they'll pick 
>> WiFi because it'll be cheaper, but I wanted to put all the cards on the 
>> table.
>> As far as why I'm bothering to propose fiber:
>> 1) If there's fiber to the power pedestal, and each ped (or every other ped) 
>> has it's own little router with it's own SSID and key, then there's a 
>> security benefit vs having everybody in the park be able to sniff traffic 
>> from each other's devices.
>> 2) We could track any illegal/bad/weird activity to a specific RV site (or 
>> at least to the proximity of one).
>> 3) The changing positions and occupancy of RV sites won't affect anybody's 
>> WiFi because their WiFi will be right next to them no matter what.  Neither 
>> will the growth of trees hurt them.
>> 4) No capacity issue in the park (and the feed TO the park can of course 
>> always be upgraded).
>> 5) Infinitely upgrade-able.
>> 6) We have all the equipment and personnel and we want to use them.  There's 
>> an indefinite amount of work for them expanding and improving our own 
>> network, but if they do it for the campground we can bill them out.
>> -Adam
>>  
>>  
>> On 6/11/2020 5:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>> Why are you doing fiber?
>>>  
>>> We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over the 
>>> Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
>>>  
>>> It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to the 
>>> sectors that cover several RV campers.
>>> 
>>> 
 On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  
  wrote:
 
  
 Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's part 
 of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it would be 
 nice to have the option to plug in a cable. 
 I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV power 
 ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/. 
  
 Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might give me a 
 place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two keystone jacks 
 in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach are that each RV gets 
 their own WiFi instead of sharing it with everybody around them, and if 
 there was ever a law enforcement issue we could track the usage to a 
 particular site rather than just "somewhere in the park". 
  
 On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
> As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections and 
> doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   Don't 
> even carry and ethernet cable... 
> 
> On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote: 
> 
>> If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site? 
>> 
>> I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post next 
>> to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be able to 
>> plug Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to do so.  And 
>> if they don't then they have their own private WiFi right outside their 
>> RV. 
>> 
>> of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this together, 
>> but I'm betting someone must have made a product for this already. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>  
 -- 
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com 
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
 
>>> 
>> 
>> -- 
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>

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[chuck]

Assuming the metal box is a ped, not the trailer here

If you cut a half wavelength slot in the metal box, cover it with non metallic 
tape to keep the bugs out,
Then on the inside of the slot you put a quarter wave probe across the middle 
of the slot, you now have a sector antenna.
Might be best to cut it horizontally and make it a V pol.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 8:38 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

Makes you wonder if a wire and an alligator clip could turn the aluminum box 
into an antenna.

 

Yeah, fields & waves was not my best course in college.  And I have a fear of 
heights.  So of course I end up running a WISP.  But turning a Faraday cage 
into an antenna is probably not my best idea.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 9:07 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

 

I like your solution actually.   Should work out well.   Hardest part with 
trailers is getting through the aluminum box.   Putting AP’s close will help a 
lot.

 

Mark





  On Jun 12, 2020, at 9:54 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

   

  Wow this thread blew up while I was sleeping.

  I'm proposing both a wireless and fiber solution.  I'm sure they'll pick WiFi 
because it'll be cheaper, but I wanted to put all the cards on the table.

  As far as why I'm bothering to propose fiber:

  1) If there's fiber to the power pedestal, and each ped (or every other ped) 
has it's own little router with it's own SSID and key, then there's a security 
benefit vs having everybody in the park be able to sniff traffic from each 
other's devices.

  2) We could track any illegal/bad/weird activity to a specific RV site (or at 
least to the proximity of one).

  3) The changing positions and occupancy of RV sites won't affect anybody's 
WiFi because their WiFi will be right next to them no matter what.  Neither 
will the growth of trees hurt them.

  4) No capacity issue in the park (and the feed TO the park can of course 
always be upgraded).

  5) Infinitely upgrade-able.

  6) We have all the equipment and personnel and we want to use them.  There's 
an indefinite amount of work for them expanding and improving our own network, 
but if they do it for the campground we can bill them out.

  -Adam

   

   

  On 6/11/2020 5:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Why are you doing fiber?

 

We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over the 
Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.

 

It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to the 
sectors that cover several RV campers.





  On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com 
wrote:

   

  Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's part 
of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it would be nice to 
have the option to plug in a cable. 

  I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV 
power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/. 


  Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might give me 
a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two keystone jacks in 
it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach are that each RV gets their 
own WiFi instead of sharing it with everybody around them, and if there was 
ever a law enforcement issue we could track the usage to a particular site 
rather than just "somewhere in the park". 

   

  On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:

As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections and 
doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   Don't even 
carry and ethernet cable... 

On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote: 



  If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site? 

  I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post 
next to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be able to plug 
Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to do so.  And if they 
don't then they have their own private WiFi right outside their RV. 

  of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this together, 
but I'm betting someone must have made a product for this already. 




 

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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[chuck]

Those were the ONLY classes I cared about.  Got A’s in all things antenna and 
RF.
Got A’s in most of the linear stuff.  

Got the B’s in the digital crap that doesn’t matter to anyone  (those guys 
are called bit freaks)
Got a C- in integral calculus.  

From: Mark Radabaugh 
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 8:42 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

Hey, I was proud of that D in Microwave and Antenna systems :-)   D’s get 
degrees.   I’m never going to use this shit.   Take the EIT / PE exam?   Why 
the hell would I ever work as a consulting engineer. 

Of course my first job is a consulting engineer, and I deal with microwaves and 
antenna systems every day.

Ah, to know then what I know now.   Just don’t make me do all this shit over 
again.

Mark



  On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:38 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  Makes you wonder if a wire and an alligator clip could turn the aluminum box 
into an antenna.
   
  Yeah, fields & waves was not my best course in college.  And I have a fear of 
heights.  So of course I end up running a WISP.  But turning a Faraday cage 
into an antenna is probably not my best idea.
   
   
  From: AF  On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
  Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 9:07 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
   
  I like your solution actually.   Should work out well.   Hardest part with 
trailers is getting through the aluminum box.   Putting AP’s close will help a 
lot.
   
  Mark



On Jun 12, 2020, at 9:54 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
 
Wow this thread blew up while I was sleeping.
I'm proposing both a wireless and fiber solution.  I'm sure they'll pick 
WiFi because it'll be cheaper, but I wanted to put all the cards on the table.
As far as why I'm bothering to propose fiber:
1) If there's fiber to the power pedestal, and each ped (or every other 
ped) has it's own little router with it's own SSID and key, then there's a 
security benefit vs having everybody in the park be able to sniff traffic from 
each other's devices.
2) We could track any illegal/bad/weird activity to a specific RV site (or 
at least to the proximity of one).
3) The changing positions and occupancy of RV sites won't affect anybody's 
WiFi because their WiFi will be right next to them no matter what.  Neither 
will the growth of trees hurt them.
4) No capacity issue in the park (and the feed TO the park can of course 
always be upgraded).
5) Infinitely upgrade-able.
6) We have all the equipment and personnel and we want to use them.  
There's an indefinite amount of work for them expanding and improving our own 
network, but if they do it for the campground we can bill them out.
-Adam
 
 
On 6/11/2020 5:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
  Why are you doing fiber?
   
  We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over the 
Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
   
  It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to the 
sectors that cover several RV campers.



On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com 
wrote:

 
Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's 
part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it would be 
nice to have the option to plug in a cable. 
I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV 
power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/. 

Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might give 
me a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two keystone jacks 
in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach are that each RV gets their 
own WiFi instead of sharing it with everybody around them, and if there was 
ever a law enforcement issue we could track the usage to a particular site 
rather than just "somewhere in the park". 
 
On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
  As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections 
and doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   Don't even 
carry and ethernet cable... 

  On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote: 


If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site? 

I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post 
next to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be able to plug 
Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to do so.  And if they 
don't then they have their own private WiFi right outside their RV. 

of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this 
together, but I'm betting someone must have made a product for this already. 




   
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



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AF@af.afmug.c

Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

[Dennis Burgess via AF]

Thanks btw!


[LTI-Full_175px]
Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium ePMP Certified
Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
Office: 314-735-0270  Website: 
http://www.linktechs.net
Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 9:16 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

Done.
I had to see how many subs I had.  77

From: Gino A. Villarini
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 5:57 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

Friends & Colleagues, Help me reach 100 subs on my Youtube channel so I can 
have a url!

Gigabits & Gigahertz is a vlog with industry content for all to enjoy.

I hope it brings value to you all. Comments and suggestions welcomed!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-qjRCvu2lNt89xaXppPIEQ/


Gino Villarini
Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
[aeronet-logo]

[inc500]

[fb-logo]

[insta-logo]

[in-logo]

[tw-logo]

[yt-logo]


[https://mcusercontent.com/491678685aaddc31e08616413/images/663fa299-7512-404f-ab00-6f8d11d8a417.png]
www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 
Guaynabo, PR 00968


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Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

[Dennis Burgess via AF]

Lol



[LTI-Full_175px]
Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium ePMP Certified
Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
Office: 314-735-0270  Website: 
http://www.linktechs.net
Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 9:16 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

Done.
I had to see how many subs I had.  77

From: Gino A. Villarini
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 5:57 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

Friends & Colleagues, Help me reach 100 subs on my Youtube channel so I can 
have a url!

Gigabits & Gigahertz is a vlog with industry content for all to enjoy.

I hope it brings value to you all. Comments and suggestions welcomed!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-qjRCvu2lNt89xaXppPIEQ/


Gino Villarini
Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
[aeronet-logo]

[inc500]

[fb-logo]

[insta-logo]

[in-logo]

[tw-logo]

[yt-logo]


[https://mcusercontent.com/491678685aaddc31e08616413/images/663fa299-7512-404f-ab00-6f8d11d8a417.png]
www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 
Guaynabo, PR 00968


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Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

[Steve Jones]

whats your channel chuck?

On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 9:42 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> So are you guys “influencers” now?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Friday, June 12, 2020 9:16 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!
>
>
>
> Done.
>
> I had to see how many subs I had.  77
>
>
>
> *From:* Gino A. Villarini
>
> *Sent:* Friday, June 12, 2020 5:57 AM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!
>
>
>
> Friends & Colleagues, Help me reach 100 subs on my Youtube channel so I
> can have a url!
>
>
>
> Gigabits & Gigahertz is a vlog with industry content for all to enjoy.
>
>
>
> I hope it brings value to you all. Comments and suggestions welcomed!
>
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-qjRCvu2lNt89xaXppPIEQ/
> 
>
>
>
> *Gino* *Villarini *
> Founder/President
> @gvillarini
> t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
>
> [image: aeronet-logo] 
>
> [image: inc500] 
>
> [image: fb-logo] 
>
> [image: insta-logo] 
>
> [image: in-logo] 
>
>
> [image: tw-logo]
> 
>
>
> [image: yt-logo]
> 
>
> 
> www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968
> --
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

[chuck]

Goofy crap and boring experiments.  

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 8:49 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

whats your channel chuck?

On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 9:42 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  So are you guys “influencers” now?



  From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
  Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 9:16 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!



  Done.

  I had to see how many subs I had.  77



  From: Gino A. Villarini 

  Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 5:57 AM

  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

  Subject: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!



  Friends & Colleagues, Help me reach 100 subs on my Youtube channel so I can 
have a url! 



  Gigabits & Gigahertz is a vlog with industry content for all to enjoy. 



  I hope it brings value to you all. Comments and suggestions welcomed!

  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-qjRCvu2lNt89xaXppPIEQ/



  Gino Villarini 
  Founder/President
  @gvillarini
  t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204 


   








  www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968


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Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

[Mathew Howard]

You gotta post a link if you want subscribers...

Actually, I'm pretty sure I'm already subscribed to Chuck's channel.

On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 9:58 AM  wrote:

> Goofy crap and boring experiments.
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Friday, June 12, 2020 8:49 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!
>
> whats your channel chuck?
>
> On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 9:42 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> So are you guys “influencers” now?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 12, 2020 9:16 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!
>>
>>
>>
>> Done.
>>
>> I had to see how many subs I had.  77
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Gino A. Villarini
>>
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 12, 2020 5:57 AM
>>
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!
>>
>>
>>
>> Friends & Colleagues, Help me reach 100 subs on my Youtube channel so I
>> can have a url!
>>
>>
>>
>> Gigabits & Gigahertz is a vlog with industry content for all to enjoy.
>>
>>
>>
>> I hope it brings value to you all. Comments and suggestions welcomed!
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-qjRCvu2lNt89xaXppPIEQ/
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> *Gino* *Villarini *
>> Founder/President
>> @gvillarini
>> t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
>>
>> [image: aeronet-logo] 
>>
>> [image: inc500] 
>>
>> [image: fb-logo] 
>>
>> [image: insta-logo] 
>>
>> [image: in-logo]
>> 
>>
>> [image: tw-logo]
>> 
>>
>>
>> [image: yt-logo]
>> 
>>
>> 
>> www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968
>> --
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

[Steve Jones]

i meant link

On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 9:58 AM  wrote:

> Goofy crap and boring experiments.
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Friday, June 12, 2020 8:49 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!
>
> whats your channel chuck?
>
> On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 9:42 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> So are you guys “influencers” now?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 12, 2020 9:16 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!
>>
>>
>>
>> Done.
>>
>> I had to see how many subs I had.  77
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Gino A. Villarini
>>
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 12, 2020 5:57 AM
>>
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!
>>
>>
>>
>> Friends & Colleagues, Help me reach 100 subs on my Youtube channel so I
>> can have a url!
>>
>>
>>
>> Gigabits & Gigahertz is a vlog with industry content for all to enjoy.
>>
>>
>>
>> I hope it brings value to you all. Comments and suggestions welcomed!
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-qjRCvu2lNt89xaXppPIEQ/
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> *Gino* *Villarini *
>> Founder/President
>> @gvillarini
>> t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
>>
>> [image: aeronet-logo] 
>>
>> [image: inc500] 
>>
>> [image: fb-logo] 
>>
>> [image: insta-logo] 
>>
>> [image: in-logo]
>> 
>>
>> [image: tw-logo]
>> 
>>
>>
>> [image: yt-logo]
>> 
>>
>> 
>> www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968
>> --
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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[AFMUG] OT sprint

[chuck]

Working on engineering a new fiber line.  Called for locates.  Normally they 
will not do the locates unless you are actually digging.  If just engineering 
they will not even take the dig ticket.
So, I always do some form of geo tech bore hole soil sampling etc to get the 
paint down on the ROW without argument.  If I forget to drill the test 
holes well I am getting older and more forgetful.

Sprint showed up and said:
They have a 2’ (both sides, above and below) exclusive zone that we cannot come 
near nationwide.  4’ wide exclusion zone.
(I was in a state highway ROW).  Told the sprint guy that I doubted they have 
an exclusive ROW in a public highway ROW.  

He went ballistic.  Said I had messed with the wrong people etc.  Got his boss 
on the phone.  I told the boss that I simply did not believe it.  I might be 
proven wrong but generally road ROWs are pretty much the domain of the 
political entity etc.  He said he had fought this battle many times and always 
won.  They have an exclusive easement everywhere in the USA and that their 
fiber is much more important than everyone else.  I said that one thing was 
certain, one of would be proven wrong.  He hung up.

I called UDOT.  They said, no, nothing special about Sprint.  I gave them the 
contact info for the locator’s boss.  UDOT called him.  He told UDOT that they 
did indeed have an exclusive easement and the would sue the state of Utah if it 
is not honored.  UDOT researched it.  Nope.  Nothing more than a permit.  Just 
like what Chuck has.  Nothing special about Sprint.  They said that they were 
going to straighten this out with the AGs office.  

Then I discover that UDOT has very recently given this highway to the county.  
County engineer says Sprint has nothing, they are in trespass everywhere they 
are in the county.  

So, out plowing cable and the Sprint locator showed up.  Boxer shorts, flip 
flops, wife beater.  Starts running his mouth to my crew about Chuck pissed off 
the wrong guys and that he is going to be tied up in federal court for the next 
10 years etc.  Supervisor threw him off the job site.  No hard hat, no orange 
vest, no hard soled shoes.  Supervisor called me and said to expect a call from 
Sprint.  I called his boss instead.  Told him that they had failed to mark 1/3 
of the ROW and that the guy needs to conform to UDOT safety standards to be out 
there working.  And that as far as suing me in federal courth, UDOT says I am 
good to go.  “So tell your guy to shut the F*** up and just do his job. “ 

This time sprint boss was meek and mild and offered to cooperate any way 
possible.  
I actually apologized for the harsh words, but was expecting the same attitude 
as before.  -- 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

[chuck]

Really, just a handful of assorted things, mostly related to my products.
One test of a bunch of rust removers.  
Really boring stuff.  Not angling for subs.  I find it astounding I have any.  

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 9:05 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

i meant link

On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 9:58 AM  wrote:

  Goofy crap and boring experiments.  

  From: Steve Jones 
  Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 8:49 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

  whats your channel chuck?

  On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 9:42 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

So are you guys “influencers” now?



From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 9:16 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!



Done.

I had to see how many subs I had.  77



From: Gino A. Villarini 

Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 5:57 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!



Friends & Colleagues, Help me reach 100 subs on my Youtube channel so I can 
have a url! 



Gigabits & Gigahertz is a vlog with industry content for all to enjoy. 



I hope it brings value to you all. Comments and suggestions welcomed!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-qjRCvu2lNt89xaXppPIEQ/



Gino Villarini 
Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204 


 
  
  
  
  
  
  


www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968




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Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

[Robert]

What's your quora?  I'd follow that...

On 6/12/20 7:29 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

But I have 138 quora followers.  I care more about that number.
*From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
*Sent:* Friday, June 12, 2020 8:15 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!
Done.
I had to see how many subs I had.  77
*From:* Gino A. Villarini
*Sent:* Friday, June 12, 2020 5:57 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

Friends & Colleagues, Help me reach 100 subs on my Youtube channel so 
I can have a url!


Gigabits & Gigahertz is a vlog with industry content for all to enjoy.

I hope it brings value to you all. Comments and suggestions welcomed!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-qjRCvu2lNt89xaXppPIEQ/ 



*GinoVillarini
*Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
aeronet-logo  	inc500 
 	fb-logo 
 	insta-logo 
 	in-logo 
 	tw-logo 
 
	yt-logo  	



www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 
Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968



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Re: [AFMUG] OT sprint

[Dennis Burgess via AF]

Fun times!


[LTI-Full_175px]
Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium ePMP Certified
Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
Office: 314-735-0270  Website: 
http://www.linktechs.net
Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 10:12 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OT sprint

Working on engineering a new fiber line.  Called for locates.  Normally they 
will not do the locates unless you are actually digging.  If just engineering 
they will not even take the dig ticket.
So, I always do some form of geo tech bore hole soil sampling etc to get the 
paint down on the ROW without argument.  If I forget to drill the test 
holes well I am getting older and more forgetful.

Sprint showed up and said:
They have a 2’ (both sides, above and below) exclusive zone that we cannot come 
near nationwide.  4’ wide exclusion zone.
(I was in a state highway ROW).  Told the sprint guy that I doubted they have 
an exclusive ROW in a public highway ROW.

He went ballistic.  Said I had messed with the wrong people etc.  Got his boss 
on the phone.  I told the boss that I simply did not believe it.  I might be 
proven wrong but generally road ROWs are pretty much the domain of the 
political entity etc.  He said he had fought this battle many times and always 
won.  They have an exclusive easement everywhere in the USA and that their 
fiber is much more important than everyone else.  I said that one thing was 
certain, one of would be proven wrong.  He hung up.

I called UDOT.  They said, no, nothing special about Sprint.  I gave them the 
contact info for the locator’s boss.  UDOT called him.  He told UDOT that they 
did indeed have an exclusive easement and the would sue the state of Utah if it 
is not honored.  UDOT researched it.  Nope.  Nothing more than a permit.  Just 
like what Chuck has.  Nothing special about Sprint.  They said that they were 
going to straighten this out with the AGs office.

Then I discover that UDOT has very recently given this highway to the county.
County engineer says Sprint has nothing, they are in trespass everywhere they 
are in the county.

So, out plowing cable and the Sprint locator showed up.  Boxer shorts, flip 
flops, wife beater.  Starts running his mouth to my crew about Chuck pissed off 
the wrong guys and that he is going to be tied up in federal court for the next 
10 years etc.  Supervisor threw him off the job site.  No hard hat, no orange 
vest, no hard soled shoes.  Supervisor called me and said to expect a call from 
Sprint.  I called his boss instead.  Told him that they had failed to mark 1/3 
of the ROW and that the guy needs to conform to UDOT safety standards to be out 
there working.  And that as far as suing me in federal courth, UDOT says I am 
good to go.  “So tell your guy to shut the F*** up and just do his job. “

This time sprint boss was meek and mild and offered to cooperate any way 
possible.
I actually apologized for the harsh words, but was expecting the same attitude 
as before.
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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Robert]

I worked for IBM in H.S.   swore I'd never touch another computer in my 
life...   "How'd that work out for you?"   Oh why didn't I follow my 
heart and become a hermit on an island in the pacific...


On 6/12/20 7:42 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
Hey, I was proud of that D in Microwave and Antenna systems :-) D’s 
get degrees.   I’m never going to use this shit.   Take the EIT / PE 
exam?   Why the hell would I ever work as a consulting engineer.


Of course my first job is a consulting engineer, and I deal with 
microwaves and antenna systems every day.


Ah, to know then what I know now.   Just don’t make me do all this 
shit over again.


Mark

On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:38 AM, Ken Hohhof > wrote:


Makes you wonder if a wire and an alligator clip could turn the 
aluminum box into an antenna.
Yeah, fields & waves was not my best course in college. And I have a 
fear of heights.  So of course I end up running a WISP.  But turning 
a Faraday cage into an antenna is probably not my best idea.
*From:*AF >*On Behalf Of*Mark Radabaugh

*Sent:*Friday, June 12, 2020 9:07 AM
*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
I like your solution actually.   Should work out well. Hardest part 
with trailers is getting through the aluminum box.   Putting AP’s 
close will help a lot.

Mark


On Jun 12, 2020, at 9:54 AM, Adam Moffett > wrote:

Wow this thread blew up while I was sleeping.
I'm proposing both a wireless and fiber solution.  I'm sure they'll 
pick WiFi because it'll be cheaper, but I wanted to put all the 
cards on the table.

As far as why I'm bothering to propose fiber:
1) If there's fiber to the power pedestal, and each ped (or every 
other ped) has it's own little router with it's own SSID and key, 
then there's a security benefit vs having everybody in the park be 
able to sniff traffic from each other's devices.
2) We could track any illegal/bad/weird activity to a specific RV 
site (or at least to the proximity of one).
3) The changing positions and occupancy of RV sites won't affect 
anybody's WiFi because their WiFi will be right next to them no 
matter what. Neither will the growth of trees hurt them.
4) No capacity issue in the park (and the feed TO the park can of 
course always be upgraded).

5) Infinitely upgrade-able.
6) We have all the equipment and personnel and we want to use them.  
There's an indefinite amount of work for them expanding and 
improving our own network, but if they do it for the campground we 
can bill them out.

-Adam
On 6/11/2020 5:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Why are you doing fiber?
We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream 
over the Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly 
to the sectors that cover several RV campers.



On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett 
wrote:



Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and 
that's part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal. I just 
thought it would be nice to have the option to plug in a cable.
I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the 
RV power ped.http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.


Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might 
give me a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be 
two keystone jacks in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this 
approach are that each RV gets their own WiFi instead of sharing 
it with everybody around them, and if there was ever a law 
enforcement issue we could track the usage to a particular site 
rather than just "somewhere in the park".

On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi 
connections and doing a hardwire would be something that we 
_never_ plan for.   Don't even carry and ethernet cable...


On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:


If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?

I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a 
post next to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the 
campers to be able to plug Ethernet in at the box if they have 
the wherewithal to do so.  And if they don't then they have 
their own private WiFi right outside their RV.


of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this 
together, but I'm betting someone must have made a product for 
this already.




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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Mark Radabaugh]

See, I only cared about the digital stuff.   Though power, motors, etc. were 
pretty cool as well.   Grades were good in those classes.   

Senior project the advisor dinged me for building a system for a plant out of a 
microcontroller instead of using a PLC like he suggested.   But I want to do 
Microcontrollers.   Yep, first job was building industrial control systems with 
PLC’s.   I’m guessing I was a completely cocky bastard as a 21 year old.   
Perhaps someday I’ll grow out of that.   Or not.

Heh, calculus.   My last all night study session managed to turn a perfectly 
good B+ in differential equations into a D.   Walked in to that exam and drew a 
complete blank.  Should have just slept, probably would have aced it.

Mark

> On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:46 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> 
> Those were the ONLY classes I cared about.  Got A’s in all things antenna and 
> RF.
> Got A’s in most of the linear stuff. 
>  
> Got the B’s in the digital crap that doesn’t matter to anyone  (those 
> guys are called bit freaks)
> Got a C- in integral calculus. 
>  
> From: Mark Radabaugh <>
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 8:42 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>  
> Hey, I was proud of that D in Microwave and Antenna systems :-)   D’s get 
> degrees.   I’m never going to use this shit.   Take the EIT / PE exam?   Why 
> the hell would I ever work as a consulting engineer.
>  
> Of course my first job is a consulting engineer, and I deal with microwaves 
> and antenna systems every day.
>  
> Ah, to know then what I know now.   Just don’t make me do all this shit over 
> again.
>  
> Mark
> 
>> On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:38 AM, Ken Hohhof > wrote:
>>  
>> Makes you wonder if a wire and an alligator clip could turn the aluminum box 
>> into an antenna.
>>  
>> Yeah, fields & waves was not my best course in college.  And I have a fear 
>> of heights.  So of course I end up running a WISP.  But turning a Faraday 
>> cage into an antenna is probably not my best idea.
>>  
>>  
>> From: AF > On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
>> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 9:07 AM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>>  
>> I like your solution actually.   Should work out well.   Hardest part with 
>> trailers is getting through the aluminum box.   Putting AP’s close will help 
>> a lot.
>>  
>> Mark
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 12, 2020, at 9:54 AM, Adam Moffett > wrote:
>>>  
>>> Wow this thread blew up while I was sleeping.
>>> I'm proposing both a wireless and fiber solution.  I'm sure they'll pick 
>>> WiFi because it'll be cheaper, but I wanted to put all the cards on the 
>>> table.
>>> As far as why I'm bothering to propose fiber:
>>> 1) If there's fiber to the power pedestal, and each ped (or every other 
>>> ped) has it's own little router with it's own SSID and key, then there's a 
>>> security benefit vs having everybody in the park be able to sniff traffic 
>>> from each other's devices.
>>> 2) We could track any illegal/bad/weird activity to a specific RV site (or 
>>> at least to the proximity of one).
>>> 3) The changing positions and occupancy of RV sites won't affect anybody's 
>>> WiFi because their WiFi will be right next to them no matter what.  Neither 
>>> will the growth of trees hurt them.
>>> 4) No capacity issue in the park (and the feed TO the park can of course 
>>> always be upgraded).
>>> 5) Infinitely upgrade-able.
>>> 6) We have all the equipment and personnel and we want to use them.  
>>> There's an indefinite amount of work for them expanding and improving our 
>>> own network, but if they do it for the campground we can bill them out.
>>> -Adam
>>>  
>>>  
>>> On 6/11/2020 5:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
 Why are you doing fiber?
  
 We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over the 
 Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
  
 It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to the 
 sectors that cover several RV campers.
 
 
> On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com <> 
> wrote:
> 
>  
> Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's part 
> of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it would be 
> nice to have the option to plug in a cable. 
> I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV 
> power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/. 
>  
> Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might give me 
> a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two keystone 
> jacks in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach are that each 
> RV gets their own WiFi instead of sharing it with everybody around them, 
> and if there was ever a law enforcement issue we could track the usage to 
> a particular site

Re: [AFMUG] OT sprint

[Adam Moffett]

In NY you can call in a "design ticket" and get the markings done so you 
can do your engineering.  I didn't know other places didn't do that.


Great story about Sprint though.


On 6/12/2020 11:12 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Working on engineering a new fiber line.  Called for locates.  
Normally they will not do the locates unless you are actually 
digging.  If just engineering they will not even take the dig ticket.
So, I always do some form of geo tech bore hole soil sampling etc to 
get the paint down on the ROW without argument.  If I forget to drill 
the test holes well I am getting older and more forgetful.

Sprint showed up and said:
They have a 2’ (both sides, above and below) exclusive zone that we 
cannot come near nationwide.  4’ wide exclusion zone.
(I was in a state highway ROW).  Told the sprint guy that I doubted 
they have an exclusive ROW in a public highway ROW.
He went ballistic.  Said I had messed with the wrong people etc.  Got 
his boss on the phone.  I told the boss that I simply did not believe 
it.  I might be proven wrong but generally road ROWs are pretty much 
the domain of the political entity etc.  He said he had fought this 
battle many times and always won.  They have an exclusive easement 
everywhere in the USA and that their fiber is much more important than 
everyone else.  I said that one thing was certain, one of would be 
proven wrong.  He hung up.
I called UDOT.  They said, no, nothing special about Sprint.  I gave 
them the contact info for the locator’s boss.  UDOT called him.  He 
told UDOT that they did indeed have an exclusive easement and the 
would sue the state of Utah if it is not honored.  UDOT researched 
it.  Nope. Nothing more than a permit.  Just like what Chuck has. 
Nothing special about Sprint.  They said that they were going to 
straighten this out with the AGs office.
Then I discover that UDOT has very recently given this highway to the 
county.
County engineer says Sprint has nothing, they are in trespass 
everywhere they are in the county.
So, out plowing cable and the Sprint locator showed up. Boxer shorts, 
flip flops, wife beater.  Starts running his mouth to my crew about 
Chuck pissed off the wrong guys and that he is going to be tied up in 
federal court for the next 10 years etc.  Supervisor threw him off the 
job site.  No hard hat, no orange vest, no hard soled shoes.  
Supervisor called me and said to expect a call from Sprint.  I called 
his boss instead.  Told him that they had failed to mark 1/3 of the 
ROW and that the guy needs to conform to UDOT safety standards to be 
out there working.  And that as far as suing me in federal courth, 
UDOT says I am good to go.  “So tell your guy to shut the F*** up and 
just do his job. “
This time sprint boss was meek and mild and offered to cooperate any 
way possible.
I actually apologized for the harsh words, but was expecting the same 
attitude as before.


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Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

[chuck]

I honestly don’t know how you follow me other than to read one of the answers I 
have posted and follow that.  
Things like this:
https://www.quora.com/Do-I-need-to-account-for-the-phase-difference-between-dipole-antennas-in-an-array-by-adding-a-phasing-cable

I have 1510 answers on there so far.  Should hit 2000 by the end of the year.  

From: Robert 
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 9:17 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

What's your quora?  I'd follow that...


On 6/12/20 7:29 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  But I have 138 quora followers.  I care more about that number.

  From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
  Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 8:15 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

  Done.
  I had to see how many subs I had.  77

  From: Gino A. Villarini 
  Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 5:57 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

  Friends & Colleagues, Help me reach 100 subs on my Youtube channel so I can 
have a url! 

   

  Gigabits & Gigahertz is a vlog with industry content for all to enjoy. 

   

  I hope it brings value to you all. Comments and suggestions welcomed!

  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-qjRCvu2lNt89xaXppPIEQ/

   

  Gino Villarini 
  Founder/President
  @gvillarini
  t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204 
  
   

  www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968


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Re: [AFMUG] OT sprint

[Josh Luthman]

It's Sprint, why is he working so hard to defend them?!

Glad the dickheads got put in their place.  Love the county engineer
proving they're trespassing, too! XD

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 11:12 AM  wrote:

> Working on engineering a new fiber line.  Called for locates.  Normally
> they will not do the locates unless you are actually digging.  If just
> engineering they will not even take the dig ticket.
> So, I always do some form of geo tech bore hole soil sampling etc to get
> the paint down on the ROW without argument.  If I forget to drill the test
> holes well I am getting older and more forgetful.
>
> Sprint showed up and said:
> They have a 2’ (both sides, above and below) exclusive zone that we cannot
> come near nationwide.  4’ wide exclusion zone.
> (I was in a state highway ROW).  Told the sprint guy that I doubted they
> have an exclusive ROW in a public highway ROW.
>
> He went ballistic.  Said I had messed with the wrong people etc.  Got his
> boss on the phone.  I told the boss that I simply did not believe it.  I
> might be proven wrong but generally road ROWs are pretty much the domain of
> the political entity etc.  He said he had fought this battle many times and
> always won.  They have an exclusive easement everywhere in the USA and that
> their fiber is much more important than everyone else.  I said that one
> thing was certain, one of would be proven wrong.  He hung up.
>
> I called UDOT.  They said, no, nothing special about Sprint.  I gave them
> the contact info for the locator’s boss.  UDOT called him.  He told UDOT
> that they did indeed have an exclusive easement and the would sue the state
> of Utah if it is not honored.  UDOT researched it.  Nope.  Nothing more
> than a permit.  Just like what Chuck has.  Nothing special about Sprint.
> They said that they were going to straighten this out with the AGs office.
>
> Then I discover that UDOT has very recently given this highway to the
> county.
> County engineer says Sprint has nothing, they are in trespass everywhere
> they are in the county.
>
> So, out plowing cable and the Sprint locator showed up.  Boxer shorts,
> flip flops, wife beater.  Starts running his mouth to my crew about Chuck
> pissed off the wrong guys and that he is going to be tied up in federal
> court for the next 10 years etc.  Supervisor threw him off the job site.
> No hard hat, no orange vest, no hard soled shoes.  Supervisor called me and
> said to expect a call from Sprint.  I called his boss instead.  Told him
> that they had failed to mark 1/3 of the ROW and that the guy needs to
> conform to UDOT safety standards to be out there working.  And that as far
> as suing me in federal courth, UDOT says I am good to go.  “So tell your
> guy to shut the F*** up and just do his job. “
>
> This time sprint boss was meek and mild and offered to cooperate any way
> possible.
> I actually apologized for the harsh words, but was expecting the same
> attitude as before.
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

[Adam Moffett]

Nice profile pic, Magnum P.I.

On 6/12/2020 11:29 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
I honestly don’t know how you follow me other than to read one of the 
answers I have posted and follow that.

Things like this:
https://www.quora.com/Do-I-need-to-account-for-the-phase-difference-between-dipole-antennas-in-an-array-by-adding-a-phasing-cable
I have 1510 answers on there so far.  Should hit 2000 by the end of 
the year.

*From:* Robert
*Sent:* Friday, June 12, 2020 9:17 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!
What's your quora?  I'd follow that...

On 6/12/20 7:29 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

But I have 138 quora followers.  I care more about that number.
*From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
*Sent:* Friday, June 12, 2020 8:15 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!
Done.
I had to see how many subs I had.  77
*From:* Gino A. Villarini
*Sent:* Friday, June 12, 2020 5:57 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

Friends & Colleagues, Help me reach 100 subs on my Youtube channel so 
I can have a url!


Gigabits & Gigahertz is a vlog with industry content for all to enjoy.

I hope it brings value to you all. Comments and suggestions welcomed!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-qjRCvu2lNt89xaXppPIEQ/ 



*GinoVillarini
*Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
aeronet-logo  	inc500 
 	fb-logo 
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www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 
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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[chuck]

I drew a complete blank in the finite state machine final.  I know exactly what 
you mean.  I knew the stuff but it I think my FAT got corrupted or something.  
We are all pretty cocky 21 year olds I think.  

I was totally all about microcontrollers until I did my first PLC.  Then it 
was: “why did I ever want to do it the hard way”?

From: Mark Radabaugh 
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 9:22 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

See, I only cared about the digital stuff.   Though power, motors, etc. were 
pretty cool as well.   Grades were good in those classes.

Senior project the advisor dinged me for building a system for a plant out of a 
microcontroller instead of using a PLC like he suggested.   But I want to do 
Microcontrollers.   Yep, first job was building industrial control systems with 
PLC’s.   I’m guessing I was a completely cocky bastard as a 21 year old.   
Perhaps someday I’ll grow out of that.   Or not.

Heh, calculus.   My last all night study session managed to turn a perfectly 
good B+ in differential equations into a D.   Walked in to that exam and drew a 
complete blank.  Should have just slept, probably would have aced it.

Mark



  On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:46 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  Those were the ONLY classes I cared about.  Got A’s in all things antenna and 
RF.
  Got A’s in most of the linear stuff.  

  Got the B’s in the digital crap that doesn’t matter to anyone  (those 
guys are called bit freaks)
  Got a C- in integral calculus.  

  From: Mark Radabaugh 
  Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 8:42 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

  Hey, I was proud of that D in Microwave and Antenna systems :-)   D’s get 
degrees.   I’m never going to use this shit.   Take the EIT / PE exam?   Why 
the hell would I ever work as a consulting engineer. 

  Of course my first job is a consulting engineer, and I deal with microwaves 
and antenna systems every day.

  Ah, to know then what I know now.   Just don’t make me do all this shit over 
again.

  Mark



On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:38 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

Makes you wonder if a wire and an alligator clip could turn the aluminum 
box into an antenna.
 
Yeah, fields & waves was not my best course in college.  And I have a fear 
of heights.  So of course I end up running a WISP.  But turning a Faraday cage 
into an antenna is probably not my best idea.
 
 
From: AF  On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 9:07 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
 
I like your solution actually.   Should work out well.   Hardest part with 
trailers is getting through the aluminum box.   Putting AP’s close will help a 
lot.
 
Mark



  On Jun 12, 2020, at 9:54 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
   
  Wow this thread blew up while I was sleeping.
  I'm proposing both a wireless and fiber solution.  I'm sure they'll pick 
WiFi because it'll be cheaper, but I wanted to put all the cards on the table.
  As far as why I'm bothering to propose fiber:
  1) If there's fiber to the power pedestal, and each ped (or every other 
ped) has it's own little router with it's own SSID and key, then there's a 
security benefit vs having everybody in the park be able to sniff traffic from 
each other's devices.
  2) We could track any illegal/bad/weird activity to a specific RV site 
(or at least to the proximity of one).
  3) The changing positions and occupancy of RV sites won't affect 
anybody's WiFi because their WiFi will be right next to them no matter what.  
Neither will the growth of trees hurt them.
  4) No capacity issue in the park (and the feed TO the park can of course 
always be upgraded).
  5) Infinitely upgrade-able.
  6) We have all the equipment and personnel and we want to use them.  
There's an indefinite amount of work for them expanding and improving our own 
network, but if they do it for the campground we can bill them out.
  -Adam
   
   
  On 6/11/2020 5:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
Why are you doing fiber?
 
We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over 
the Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
 
It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to 
the sectors that cover several RV campers.



  On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com 
wrote:

   
  Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's 
part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it would be 
nice to have the option to plug in a cable. 
  I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV 
power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/. 

  Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might give 
me a place

Re: [AFMUG] OT sprint

[chuck]

The danger here is that they may ask you to pay for the design ticket expense.  

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 9:23 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT sprint

In NY you can call in a "design ticket" and get the markings done so you can do 
your engineering.  I didn't know other places didn't do that.

Great story about Sprint though.



On 6/12/2020 11:12 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  Working on engineering a new fiber line.  Called for locates.  Normally they 
will not do the locates unless you are actually digging.  If just engineering 
they will not even take the dig ticket.
  So, I always do some form of geo tech bore hole soil sampling etc to get the 
paint down on the ROW without argument.  If I forget to drill the test 
holes well I am getting older and more forgetful.

  Sprint showed up and said:
  They have a 2’ (both sides, above and below) exclusive zone that we cannot 
come near nationwide.  4’ wide exclusion zone.
  (I was in a state highway ROW).  Told the sprint guy that I doubted they have 
an exclusive ROW in a public highway ROW.  

  He went ballistic.  Said I had messed with the wrong people etc.  Got his 
boss on the phone.  I told the boss that I simply did not believe it.  I might 
be proven wrong but generally road ROWs are pretty much the domain of the 
political entity etc.  He said he had fought this battle many times and always 
won.  They have an exclusive easement everywhere in the USA and that their 
fiber is much more important than everyone else.  I said that one thing was 
certain, one of would be proven wrong.  He hung up.

  I called UDOT.  They said, no, nothing special about Sprint.  I gave them the 
contact info for the locator’s boss.  UDOT called him.  He told UDOT that they 
did indeed have an exclusive easement and the would sue the state of Utah if it 
is not honored.  UDOT researched it.  Nope.  Nothing more than a permit.  Just 
like what Chuck has.  Nothing special about Sprint.  They said that they were 
going to straighten this out with the AGs office.  

  Then I discover that UDOT has very recently given this highway to the county. 
 
  County engineer says Sprint has nothing, they are in trespass everywhere they 
are in the county.  

  So, out plowing cable and the Sprint locator showed up.  Boxer shorts, flip 
flops, wife beater.  Starts running his mouth to my crew about Chuck pissed off 
the wrong guys and that he is going to be tied up in federal court for the next 
10 years etc.  Supervisor threw him off the job site.  No hard hat, no orange 
vest, no hard soled shoes.  Supervisor called me and said to expect a call from 
Sprint.  I called his boss instead.  Told him that they had failed to mark 1/3 
of the ROW and that the guy needs to conform to UDOT safety standards to be out 
there working.  And that as far as suing me in federal courth, UDOT says I am 
good to go.  “So tell your guy to shut the F*** up and just do his job. “ 

  This time sprint boss was meek and mild and offered to cooperate any way 
possible.  
  I actually apologized for the harsh words, but was expecting the same 
attitude as before.  

   



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Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

[chuck]

Yeah, and I have been infringing on that particular piece of IP so long that he 
has lost his right to enforce it I think...

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 9:31 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

Nice profile pic, Magnum P.I.


On 6/12/2020 11:29 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  I honestly don’t know how you follow me other than to read one of the answers 
I have posted and follow that.  
  Things like this:
  
https://www.quora.com/Do-I-need-to-account-for-the-phase-difference-between-dipole-antennas-in-an-array-by-adding-a-phasing-cable

  I have 1510 answers on there so far.  Should hit 2000 by the end of the year. 
 

  From: Robert 
  Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 9:17 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

  What's your quora?  I'd follow that...


  On 6/12/20 7:29 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

But I have 138 quora followers.  I care more about that number.

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 8:15 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

Done.
I had to see how many subs I had.  77

From: Gino A. Villarini 
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 5:57 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

Friends & Colleagues, Help me reach 100 subs on my Youtube channel so I can 
have a url! 

 

Gigabits & Gigahertz is a vlog with industry content for all to enjoy. 

 

I hope it brings value to you all. Comments and suggestions welcomed!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-qjRCvu2lNt89xaXppPIEQ/

 

Gino Villarini 
Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204 

 

www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968



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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Robert]

Had a physics class with a prof who had us design a traffic light 
controller.   All the "hardy boys" did it with u-controllers... was 
pricey...  I did it with all analog/descrete components and got 1/4 the 
price..  Yeah, aced that class and got an offer from the prof to work 
with him on a signal detector... Highlight of my college time..
Unfortunately the prof got convicted of embezzling funds from his 
monster grant to work on his house  LOL...


On 6/12/20 7:46 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Those were the ONLY classes I cared about.  Got A’s in all things 
antenna and RF.

Got A’s in most of the linear stuff.
Got the B’s in the digital crap that doesn’t matter to anyone  
(those guys are called bit freaks)

Got a C- in integral calculus.
*From:* Mark Radabaugh
*Sent:* Friday, June 12, 2020 8:42 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
Hey, I was proud of that D in Microwave and Antenna systems :-) D’s 
get degrees.   I’m never going to use this shit.   Take the EIT / PE 
exam?   Why the hell would I ever work as a consulting engineer.
Of course my first job is a consulting engineer, and I deal with 
microwaves and antenna systems every day.
Ah, to know then what I know now.   Just don’t make me do all this 
shit over again.

Mark


On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:38 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
Makes you wonder if a wire and an alligator clip could turn the 
aluminum box into an antenna.
Yeah, fields & waves was not my best course in college. And I have a 
fear of heights.  So of course I end up running a WISP.  But turning 
a Faraday cage into an antenna is probably not my best idea.

*From:*AF *On Behalf Of*Mark Radabaugh
*Sent:*Friday, June 12, 2020 9:07 AM
*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
I like your solution actually.   Should work out well. Hardest part 
with trailers is getting through the aluminum box.   Putting AP’s 
close will help a lot.

Mark



On Jun 12, 2020, at 9:54 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
Wow this thread blew up while I was sleeping.
I'm proposing both a wireless and fiber solution. I'm sure they'll 
pick WiFi because it'll be cheaper, but I wanted to put all the 
cards on the table.

As far as why I'm bothering to propose fiber:
1) If there's fiber to the power pedestal, and each ped (or every 
other ped) has it's own little router with it's own SSID and key, 
then there's a security benefit vs having everybody in the park be 
able to sniff traffic from each other's devices.
2) We could track any illegal/bad/weird activity to a specific RV 
site (or at least to the proximity of one).
3) The changing positions and occupancy of RV sites won't affect 
anybody's WiFi because their WiFi will be right next to them no 
matter what.  Neither will the growth of trees hurt them.
4) No capacity issue in the park (and the feed TO the park can of 
course always be upgraded).

5) Infinitely upgrade-able.
6) We have all the equipment and personnel and we want to use them.  
There's an indefinite amount of work for them expanding and 
improving our own network, but if they do it for the campground we 
can bill them out.

-Adam
On 6/11/2020 5:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Why are you doing fiber?
We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream 
over the Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly 
to the sectors that cover several RV campers.



On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam 
Moffettmailto:dmmoffett@gmail.comwrote:



Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and 
that's part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just 
thought it would be nice to have the option to plug in a cable.
I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the 
RV power ped.http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.


Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might 
give me a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be 
two keystone jacks in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this 
approach are that each RV gets their own WiFi instead of sharing 
it with everybody around them, and if there was ever a law 
enforcement issue we could track the usage to a particular site 
rather than just "somewhere in the park".

On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi 
connections and doing a hardwire would be something that we 
_never_ plan for. Don't even carry and ethernet cable...


On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:


If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?

I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a 
post next to their power and water hookups. I'd want the campers 
to be able to plug Ethernet in at the box if they have the 
wherewithal to do so.  And if they don't then they have their 
own private WiFi right outside their RV.


of course I could get li

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Bill Prince]

  
  
Oh man. I was doing great in calculus until we got to
  differential equations. I blame the professor. Harry Blackman.
  What a terrible professor! He lectured with his back to the class
  and wrote on the blackboard; chalk in his outstretched right hand,
  and eraser in his outstretched left hand. He would write equations
  as he droned, and erased the information in the space between his
  hands. What a horrible experience that was!


bp



On 6/12/2020 8:22 AM, Mark Radabaugh
  wrote:


  
  See, I only cared about the digital stuff.   Though power, motors,
  etc. were pretty cool as well.   Grades were good in those
  classes.   
  
  
  Senior project the advisor dinged me for building a
system for a plant out of a microcontroller instead of using a
PLC like he suggested.   But I want to do Microcontrollers.  
Yep, first job was building industrial control systems with
PLC’s.   I’m guessing I was a completely cocky bastard as a 21
year old.   Perhaps someday I’ll grow out of that.   Or not.
  
  
  Heh, calculus.   My last all night study session
managed to turn a perfectly good B+ in differential equations
into a D.   Walked in to that exam and drew a complete blank.
 Should have just slept, probably would have aced it.
  
  
  Mark

  
On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:46 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:


  
  

  
Those were the ONLY classes I cared
  about.  Got A’s in all things antenna and RF.
Got A’s in most of the linear stuff. 

 
Got the B’s in the digital crap that
  doesn’t matter to anyone  (those guys are
  called bit freaks)
Got a C- in integral calculus.  

  
 

  From: Mark Radabaugh
  
  Sent: Friday,
June 12, 2020 8:42 AM
  To: AnimalFarm
  Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re:
[AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

  
   

Hey,
  I was proud of that D in Microwave and Antenna
  systems :-)   D’s get degrees.   I’m never going
  to use this shit.   Take the EIT / PE exam?   Why
  the hell would I ever work as a consulting
  engineer.
   
  Of course my first job is a
consulting engineer, and I deal with microwaves
and antenna systems every day.
   
  Ah, to know then what I know now.  
Just don’t make me do all this shit over again.
   
  Mark

  
On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:38 AM,
  Ken Hohhof 
  wrote:
 

  
Makes
  you wonder if a wire and an alligator
  clip could turn the aluminum box into
  an antenna.
 
Yeah,
  fields & waves was not my best
  course in college.  And I have a fear
  of heights.  So of course I end up
  running a WISP.  But turning a Faraday
  cage into an antenna is probably not
  my best idea.
 
 

  
From: AF
   On Behalf Of Mark
  Radabaugh
  Sent: Friday,
  June 12, 2020 9:07 AM
  To: AnimalFarm
  Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re:
  [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
  

Re: [AFMUG] OT sprint

[Robert]

I love it when a plan comes together...   Thanks that kind of story 
makes my day...  Feifdoms are a pet peave..


On 6/12/20 8:12 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Working on engineering a new fiber line.  Called for locates.  
Normally they will not do the locates unless you are actually 
digging.  If just engineering they will not even take the dig ticket.
So, I always do some form of geo tech bore hole soil sampling etc to 
get the paint down on the ROW without argument.  If I forget to drill 
the test holes well I am getting older and more forgetful.

Sprint showed up and said:
They have a 2’ (both sides, above and below) exclusive zone that we 
cannot come near nationwide.  4’ wide exclusion zone.
(I was in a state highway ROW).  Told the sprint guy that I doubted 
they have an exclusive ROW in a public highway ROW.
He went ballistic.  Said I had messed with the wrong people etc.  Got 
his boss on the phone.  I told the boss that I simply did not believe 
it.  I might be proven wrong but generally road ROWs are pretty much 
the domain of the political entity etc.  He said he had fought this 
battle many times and always won.  They have an exclusive easement 
everywhere in the USA and that their fiber is much more important than 
everyone else.  I said that one thing was certain, one of would be 
proven wrong.  He hung up.
I called UDOT.  They said, no, nothing special about Sprint.  I gave 
them the contact info for the locator’s boss.  UDOT called him.  He 
told UDOT that they did indeed have an exclusive easement and the 
would sue the state of Utah if it is not honored.  UDOT researched 
it.  Nope. Nothing more than a permit.  Just like what Chuck has. 
Nothing special about Sprint.  They said that they were going to 
straighten this out with the AGs office.
Then I discover that UDOT has very recently given this highway to the 
county.
County engineer says Sprint has nothing, they are in trespass 
everywhere they are in the county.
So, out plowing cable and the Sprint locator showed up. Boxer shorts, 
flip flops, wife beater.  Starts running his mouth to my crew about 
Chuck pissed off the wrong guys and that he is going to be tied up in 
federal court for the next 10 years etc.  Supervisor threw him off the 
job site.  No hard hat, no orange vest, no hard soled shoes.  
Supervisor called me and said to expect a call from Sprint.  I called 
his boss instead.  Told him that they had failed to mark 1/3 of the 
ROW and that the guy needs to conform to UDOT safety standards to be 
out there working.  And that as far as suing me in federal courth, 
UDOT says I am good to go.  “So tell your guy to shut the F*** up and 
just do his job. “
This time sprint boss was meek and mild and offered to cooperate any 
way possible.
I actually apologized for the harsh words, but was expecting the same 
attitude as before.




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Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

[Robert]

That's why you didn't want us following you...  Magnum...? LOL  
following now...


On 6/12/20 8:29 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
I honestly don’t know how you follow me other than to read one of the 
answers I have posted and follow that.

Things like this:
https://www.quora.com/Do-I-need-to-account-for-the-phase-difference-between-dipole-antennas-in-an-array-by-adding-a-phasing-cable
I have 1510 answers on there so far.  Should hit 2000 by the end of 
the year.

*From:* Robert
*Sent:* Friday, June 12, 2020 9:17 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!
What's your quora?  I'd follow that...

On 6/12/20 7:29 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

But I have 138 quora followers.  I care more about that number.
*From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
*Sent:* Friday, June 12, 2020 8:15 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!
Done.
I had to see how many subs I had.  77
*From:* Gino A. Villarini
*Sent:* Friday, June 12, 2020 5:57 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

Friends & Colleagues, Help me reach 100 subs on my Youtube channel so 
I can have a url!


Gigabits & Gigahertz is a vlog with industry content for all to enjoy.

I hope it brings value to you all. Comments and suggestions welcomed!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-qjRCvu2lNt89xaXppPIEQ/ 



*GinoVillarini
*Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
aeronet-logo  	inc500 
 	fb-logo 
 	insta-logo 
 	in-logo 
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www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 
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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Robert]

Were you in the same class as I was?   We had the same professor, I 
think..  Drove me off the deep end...  Specially when he blocked the 
equations with his body as he erased!!   But we had this one other 
assoc-prof..   Name of Jim Clark..  He was wild, specially when he went 
into game theory and betting systems..  Yep that Clark.   Worked for him 
20 years later...


On 6/12/20 8:44 AM, Bill Prince wrote:


Oh man. I was doing great in calculus until we got to differential 
equations. I blame the professor. Harry Blackman. What a terrible 
professor! He lectured with his back to the class and wrote on the 
blackboard; chalk in his outstretched right hand, and eraser in his 
outstretched left hand. He would write equations as he droned, and 
erased the information in the space between his hands. What a horrible 
experience that was!



bp


On 6/12/2020 8:22 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
See, I only cared about the digital stuff.   Though power, motors, 
etc. were pretty cool as well.   Grades were good in those classes.


Senior project the advisor dinged me for building a system for a 
plant out of a microcontroller instead of using a PLC like he 
suggested.   But I want to do Microcontrollers.   Yep, first job was 
building industrial control systems with PLC’s.   I’m guessing I was 
a completely cocky bastard as a 21 year old.   Perhaps someday I’ll 
grow out of that.   Or not.


Heh, calculus.   My last all night study session managed to turn a 
perfectly good B+ in differential equations into a D.   Walked in to 
that exam and drew a complete blank.  Should have just slept, 
probably would have aced it.


Mark

On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:46 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com 
 wrote:


Those were the ONLY classes I cared about.  Got A’s in all things 
antenna and RF.

Got A’s in most of the linear stuff.
Got the B’s in the digital crap that doesn’t matter to anyone  
(those guys are called bit freaks)

Got a C- in integral calculus.
*From:* Mark Radabaugh
*Sent:* Friday, June 12, 2020 8:42 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
Hey, I was proud of that D in Microwave and Antenna systems :-)   
D’s get degrees.   I’m never going to use this shit.   Take the EIT 
/ PE exam? Why the hell would I ever work as a consulting engineer.
Of course my first job is a consulting engineer, and I deal with 
microwaves and antenna systems every day.
Ah, to know then what I know now.   Just don’t make me do all this 
shit over again.

Mark


On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:38 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
Makes you wonder if a wire and an alligator clip could turn the 
aluminum box into an antenna.
Yeah, fields & waves was not my best course in college.  And I have 
a fear of heights.  So of course I end up running a WISP.  But 
turning a Faraday cage into an antenna is probably not my best idea.

*From:*AF *On Behalf Of*Mark Radabaugh
*Sent:*Friday, June 12, 2020 9:07 AM
*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
I like your solution actually.   Should work out well.   Hardest 
part with trailers is getting through the aluminum box.   Putting 
AP’s close will help a lot.

Mark



On Jun 12, 2020, at 9:54 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
Wow this thread blew up while I was sleeping.
I'm proposing both a wireless and fiber solution.  I'm sure 
they'll pick WiFi because it'll be cheaper, but I wanted to put 
all the cards on the table.

As far as why I'm bothering to propose fiber:
1) If there's fiber to the power pedestal, and each ped (or every 
other ped) has it's own little router with it's own SSID and key, 
then there's a security benefit vs having everybody in the park be 
able to sniff traffic from each other's devices.
2) We could track any illegal/bad/weird activity to a specific RV 
site (or at least to the proximity of one).
3) The changing positions and occupancy of RV sites won't affect 
anybody's WiFi because their WiFi will be right next to them no 
matter what.  Neither will the growth of trees hurt them.
4) No capacity issue in the park (and the feed TO the park can of 
course always be upgraded).

5) Infinitely upgrade-able.
6) We have all the equipment and personnel and we want to use 
them.  There's an indefinite amount of work for them expanding and 
improving our own network, but if they do it for the campground we 
can bill them out.

-Adam
On 6/11/2020 5:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Why are you doing fiber?
We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream 
over the Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly 
to the sectors that cover several RV campers.



On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam 
Moffettmailto:dmmoffett@gmail.comwrote:



Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and 
that's part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just 
thought it would be nice to have the option to plug in a cable.
I did find a comms enclosure that bolts o

Re: [AFMUG] OT sprint

[Ken Hohhof]

Chuck:  What company do you work for?

Locate Guy:  Sprint.

Chuck (now sprinting in circles):  OK, what company do you work for?

 

Actually, he’s going to need a magenta wifebeater since he’ll be working for 
“New T-Mobile”.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 10:47 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT sprint

 

I love it when a plan comes together...   Thanks that kind of story makes my 
day...  Feifdoms are a pet peave..

On 6/12/20 8:12 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com   wrote:

Working on engineering a new fiber line.  Called for locates.  Normally they 
will not do the locates unless you are actually digging.  If just engineering 
they will not even take the dig ticket.

So, I always do some form of geo tech bore hole soil sampling etc to get the 
paint down on the ROW without argument.  If I forget to drill the test 
holes well I am getting older and more forgetful.

 

Sprint showed up and said:

They have a 2’ (both sides, above and below) exclusive zone that we cannot come 
near nationwide.  4’ wide exclusion zone.

(I was in a state highway ROW).  Told the sprint guy that I doubted they have 
an exclusive ROW in a public highway ROW.  

 

He went ballistic.  Said I had messed with the wrong people etc.  Got his boss 
on the phone.  I told the boss that I simply did not believe it.  I might be 
proven wrong but generally road ROWs are pretty much the domain of the 
political entity etc.  He said he had fought this battle many times and always 
won.  They have an exclusive easement everywhere in the USA and that their 
fiber is much more important than everyone else.  I said that one thing was 
certain, one of would be proven wrong.  He hung up.

 

I called UDOT.  They said, no, nothing special about Sprint.  I gave them the 
contact info for the locator’s boss.  UDOT called him.  He told UDOT that they 
did indeed have an exclusive easement and the would sue the state of Utah if it 
is not honored.  UDOT researched it.  Nope.  Nothing more than a permit.  Just 
like what Chuck has.  Nothing special about Sprint.  They said that they were 
going to straighten this out with the AGs office.  

 

Then I discover that UDOT has very recently given this highway to the county.  

County engineer says Sprint has nothing, they are in trespass everywhere they 
are in the county.  

 

So, out plowing cable and the Sprint locator showed up.  Boxer shorts, flip 
flops, wife beater.  Starts running his mouth to my crew about Chuck pissed off 
the wrong guys and that he is going to be tied up in federal court for the next 
10 years etc.  Supervisor threw him off the job site.  No hard hat, no orange 
vest, no hard soled shoes.  Supervisor called me and said to expect a call from 
Sprint.  I called his boss instead.  Told him that they had failed to mark 1/3 
of the ROW and that the guy needs to conform to UDOT safety standards to be out 
there working.  And that as far as suing me in federal courth, UDOT says I am 
good to go.  “So tell your guy to shut the F*** up and just do his job. “ 

 

This time sprint boss was meek and mild and offered to cooperate any way 
possible.  

I actually apologized for the harsh words, but was expecting the same attitude 
as before.  





 

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Re: [AFMUG] Cloud Hosted Mikrotik

[Steven Kenney]

Consider the $160 month over 72 months = $11520. For almost the same cost, I 
can get a dell server virtualize it, run multiple servers on it, and if well 
maintained will last well past 72 months. 

Its just pure math. AWS isn't cost effective unless you are using it for a 
lower traffic app that you need to be global so you can have instances set up 
around the world. 

Scalability is a few more steps in Vmware or proxmox or whatever. I simply edit 
the resources, restart the vm, resize the disks bring it back up and its good 
to go. Literally a 10 min process. I've been sitting on 5+ physical servers 
that can run 60-100 linux servers for 6 years now and I still have plenty of 
room to grow. 

The only thing that sucks is the power and cooling costs. 

-- 
Steven Kenney 
Network Operations Manager 
WaveDirect Telecommunications 
http://www.wavedirect.net 
(519)737-WAVE (9283) 


From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)"  
To: "af"  
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:06:47 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cloud Hosted Mikrotik 

I have similar gripes with AWS. If you've got an application which was written 
for AWS and takes advantage of their infrastructure in the right way it isn't 
that bad. For instance, I'm seriously looking at using their serverless/IoT 
infrastructure for something I'm working on here, and the pricing I'm seeing is 
far better than I could do with a reasonable infrastructure to support it. Plus 
it scales nicely. 
For more traditional systems, Normal AWS is pretty expensive. On the other 
hand, the newer Lightsail service is more oriented toward those apps... You can 
get a entry-level server for $3.50/month, or at the other end, $160/month you 
can get a 32GB RAM, 8 Core, 640GB storage server. 

On the other hand, I really like Vultr, which has similar pricing but it is a 
lot easier to deal with. 

On Thu, Jun 11, 2020 at 9:59 AM Dennis Burgess via AF < [ 
mailto:af@af.afmug.com | af@af.afmug.com ] > wrote: 





We tried to toss TowerCoveage.com to AWS. Their quote was around 45k a month! 
We are the exact opposite of what they want, high CPU and high IOPs. 










Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer 
MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium ePMP 
Certified 

Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition” 

Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services 

Office : 314-735-0270 Website: [ http://www.linktechs.net/ | 
http://www.linktechs.net ] 

Create Wireless Coverage’s with [ http://www.towercoverage.com/ | 
www.towercoverage.com ] 





From: AF < [ mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com | af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] > On 
Behalf Of Steven Kenney 
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 8:42 AM 
To: af < [ mailto:af@af.afmug.com | af@af.afmug.com ] > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cloud Hosted Mikrotik 





Nobody make a product anymore and sells it. Its all subscription based. Its 
royally pissing me off too. I mean even in app games if you wanna remove ads 
you could just buy the game. NOW you need to pay $10 to remove ads for A MONTH 
or a period of time. 





Anyhoo.. as far as CHR - I've messed around with it on Amazon and it does work. 
Quite cool actually but I've found after crunching the numbers over the 
years its still way cheaper running your own hardware in your own NOC than in 
the cloud. I've had servers run for 9 years giving me way more ROI than any 
monthly subscription could. If properly maintained. Not to mention you are 
taking your own destiny into your own hands instead of placing them in a 3rd 
party's possession. 





Now if you don't have the staff or time to manage things then yeah you will 
need to pay someone else for their expertise in putting it all together. 





I think a hybrid solution is the overall best solution. The best of both 
worlds. 





-- 
Steven Kenney 
Network Operations Manager 
WaveDirect Telecommunications 
[ http://www.wavedirect.net/ | http://www.wavedirect.net ] 
(519)737-WAVE (9283) 






From: "Seth Mattinen" < [ mailto:se...@rollernet.us | se...@rollernet.us ] > 
To: "af" < [ mailto:af@af.afmug.com | af@af.afmug.com ] > 
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2020 12:53:22 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cloud Hosted Mikrotik 





On 6/10/20 6:01 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: 
> Oh, for sure. Virtualized routers are where the industry is going, whether 
> it's a VM running on your compute infrastructure or on your switch\router. 


No thanks, because here comes the annual subscriptions. Cisco already 
went that way with CSR 1000V. Maybe I'm pessimistic, but the majority of 
the industry is sure to go that way too. At least the first sale 
doctrine applies to hardware. Tired of fucking subscriptions for every 
damn thing. 

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http://a

Re: [AFMUG] OT sprint

[chuck]

Said Pig to Rat.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 10:02 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT sprint

Chuck:  What company do you work for?

Locate Guy:  Sprint.

Chuck (now sprinting in circles):  OK, what company do you work for?

 

Actually, he’s going to need a magenta wifebeater since he’ll be working for 
“New T-Mobile”.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 10:47 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT sprint

 

I love it when a plan comes together...   Thanks that kind of story makes my 
day...  Feifdoms are a pet peave..

On 6/12/20 8:12 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  Working on engineering a new fiber line.  Called for locates.  Normally they 
will not do the locates unless you are actually digging.  If just engineering 
they will not even take the dig ticket.

  So, I always do some form of geo tech bore hole soil sampling etc to get the 
paint down on the ROW without argument.  If I forget to drill the test 
holes well I am getting older and more forgetful.

   

  Sprint showed up and said:

  They have a 2’ (both sides, above and below) exclusive zone that we cannot 
come near nationwide.  4’ wide exclusion zone.

  (I was in a state highway ROW).  Told the sprint guy that I doubted they have 
an exclusive ROW in a public highway ROW.  

   

  He went ballistic.  Said I had messed with the wrong people etc.  Got his 
boss on the phone.  I told the boss that I simply did not believe it.  I might 
be proven wrong but generally road ROWs are pretty much the domain of the 
political entity etc.  He said he had fought this battle many times and always 
won.  They have an exclusive easement everywhere in the USA and that their 
fiber is much more important than everyone else.  I said that one thing was 
certain, one of would be proven wrong.  He hung up.

   

  I called UDOT.  They said, no, nothing special about Sprint.  I gave them the 
contact info for the locator’s boss.  UDOT called him.  He told UDOT that they 
did indeed have an exclusive easement and the would sue the state of Utah if it 
is not honored.  UDOT researched it.  Nope.  Nothing more than a permit.  Just 
like what Chuck has.  Nothing special about Sprint.  They said that they were 
going to straighten this out with the AGs office.  

   

  Then I discover that UDOT has very recently given this highway to the county. 
 

  County engineer says Sprint has nothing, they are in trespass everywhere they 
are in the county.  

   

  So, out plowing cable and the Sprint locator showed up.  Boxer shorts, flip 
flops, wife beater.  Starts running his mouth to my crew about Chuck pissed off 
the wrong guys and that he is going to be tied up in federal court for the next 
10 years etc.  Supervisor threw him off the job site.  No hard hat, no orange 
vest, no hard soled shoes.  Supervisor called me and said to expect a call from 
Sprint.  I called his boss instead.  Told him that they had failed to mark 1/3 
of the ROW and that the guy needs to conform to UDOT safety standards to be out 
there working.  And that as far as suing me in federal courth, UDOT says I am 
good to go.  “So tell your guy to shut the F*** up and just do his job. “ 

   

  This time sprint boss was meek and mild and offered to cooperate any way 
possible.  

  I actually apologized for the harsh words, but was expecting the same 
attitude as before.  





 




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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Ken Hohhof]

Professors are a mixed lot.  I took a course from this guy, who apparently is 
still teaching although he would be well into his 80’s now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Butz

 

I had no idea at the time he was a Holocaust denier.  I’ve never understood 
those people – my dad was in the Army in WWII and participated in liberating 
some concentration camps.  I mean, it’s a freakin’ fact, how can you deny 
facts.  Anyway, my recollection of Professor Butz was I had a friend who kept 
writing the name as “Prof. Butts” on his assignments and tests.  We kept 
telling him it was spelled Butz but he thought we were joking.  Brings new 
meaning to the expression “butt of a joke”.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 10:54 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

 

Were you in the same class as I was?   We had the same professor, I think..  
Drove me off the deep end...  Specially when he blocked the equations with his 
body as he erased!!   But we had this one other assoc-prof..   Name of Jim 
Clark..  He was wild, specially when he went into game theory and betting 
systems..  Yep that Clark.   Worked for him 20 years later...

On 6/12/20 8:44 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

Oh man. I was doing great in calculus until we got to differential equations. I 
blame the professor. Harry Blackman. What a terrible professor! He lectured 
with his back to the class and wrote on the blackboard; chalk in his 
outstretched right hand, and eraser in his outstretched left hand. He would 
write equations as he droned, and erased the information in the space between 
his hands. What a horrible experience that was!

 

bp

 

On 6/12/2020 8:22 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

See, I only cared about the digital stuff.   Though power, motors, etc. were 
pretty cool as well.   Grades were good in those classes.

 

Senior project the advisor dinged me for building a system for a plant out of a 
microcontroller instead of using a PLC like he suggested.   But I want to do 
Microcontrollers.   Yep, first job was building industrial control systems with 
PLC’s.   I’m guessing I was a completely cocky bastard as a 21 year old.   
Perhaps someday I’ll grow out of that.   Or not.

 

Heh, calculus.   My last all night study session managed to turn a perfectly 
good B+ in differential equations into a D.   Walked in to that exam and drew a 
complete blank.  Should have just slept, probably would have aced it.

 

Mark





On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:46 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com   wrote:

 

Those were the ONLY classes I cared about.  Got A’s in all things antenna and 
RF.

Got A’s in most of the linear stuff.  

 

Got the B’s in the digital crap that doesn’t matter to anyone  (those guys 
are called bit freaks)

Got a C- in integral calculus.  

 

From: Mark Radabaugh 

Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 8:42 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

 

Hey, I was proud of that D in Microwave and Antenna systems :-)   D’s get 
degrees.   I’m never going to use this shit.   Take the EIT / PE exam?   Why 
the hell would I ever work as a consulting engineer. 

 

Of course my first job is a consulting engineer, and I deal with microwaves and 
antenna systems every day.

 

Ah, to know then what I know now.   Just don’t make me do all this shit over 
again.

 

Mark





On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:38 AM, Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

 

Makes you wonder if a wire and an alligator clip could turn the aluminum box 
into an antenna.

 

Yeah, fields & waves was not my best course in college.  And I have a fear of 
heights.  So of course I end up running a WISP.  But turning a Faraday cage 
into an antenna is probably not my best idea.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 9:07 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

 

I like your solution actually.   Should work out well.   Hardest part with 
trailers is getting through the aluminum box.   Putting AP’s close will help a 
lot.

 

Mark






On Jun 12, 2020, at 9:54 AM, Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

 

Wow this thread blew up while I was sleeping.

I'm proposing both a wireless and fiber solution.  I'm sure they'll pick WiFi 
because it'll be cheaper, but I wanted to put all the cards on the table.

As far as why I'm bothering to propose fiber:

1) If there's fiber to the power pedestal, and each ped (or every other ped) 
has it's own little router with it's own SSID and key, then there's a security 
benefit vs having everybody in the park be able to sniff traffic from each 
other's devices.

2) We could track any illegal/bad/weird activity to a specific RV site (or at 
least to the proximity of one).

3) The changing positions and occupancy of RV sites won't affect anybody's WiFi 
because their WiFi will be right next to them no matter what. 

Re: [AFMUG] OT sprint

[James Howard]

I think the Sprint guy sounds more like the Crocs…..

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 11:10 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT sprint

Said Pig to Rat.

From: Ken Hohhof
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 10:02 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT sprint

Chuck:  What company do you work for?
Locate Guy:  Sprint.
Chuck (now sprinting in circles):  OK, what company do you work for?

Actually, he’s going to need a magenta wifebeater since he’ll be working for 
“New T-Mobile”.


From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Robert
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 10:47 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT sprint

I love it when a plan comes together...   Thanks that kind of story makes my 
day...  Feifdoms are a pet peave..
On 6/12/20 8:12 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Working on engineering a new fiber line.  Called for locates.  Normally they 
will not do the locates unless you are actually digging.  If just engineering 
they will not even take the dig ticket.
So, I always do some form of geo tech bore hole soil sampling etc to get the 
paint down on the ROW without argument.  If I forget to drill the test 
holes well I am getting older and more forgetful.

Sprint showed up and said:
They have a 2’ (both sides, above and below) exclusive zone that we cannot come 
near nationwide.  4’ wide exclusion zone.
(I was in a state highway ROW).  Told the sprint guy that I doubted they have 
an exclusive ROW in a public highway ROW.

He went ballistic.  Said I had messed with the wrong people etc.  Got his boss 
on the phone.  I told the boss that I simply did not believe it.  I might be 
proven wrong but generally road ROWs are pretty much the domain of the 
political entity etc.  He said he had fought this battle many times and always 
won.  They have an exclusive easement everywhere in the USA and that their 
fiber is much more important than everyone else.  I said that one thing was 
certain, one of would be proven wrong.  He hung up.

I called UDOT.  They said, no, nothing special about Sprint.  I gave them the 
contact info for the locator’s boss.  UDOT called him.  He told UDOT that they 
did indeed have an exclusive easement and the would sue the state of Utah if it 
is not honored.  UDOT researched it.  Nope.  Nothing more than a permit.  Just 
like what Chuck has.  Nothing special about Sprint.  They said that they were 
going to straighten this out with the AGs office.

Then I discover that UDOT has very recently given this highway to the county.
County engineer says Sprint has nothing, they are in trespass everywhere they 
are in the county.

So, out plowing cable and the Sprint locator showed up.  Boxer shorts, flip 
flops, wife beater.  Starts running his mouth to my crew about Chuck pissed off 
the wrong guys and that he is going to be tied up in federal court for the next 
10 years etc.  Supervisor threw him off the job site.  No hard hat, no orange 
vest, no hard soled shoes.  Supervisor called me and said to expect a call from 
Sprint.  I called his boss instead.  Told him that they had failed to mark 1/3 
of the ROW and that the guy needs to conform to UDOT safety standards to be out 
there working.  And that as far as suing me in federal courth, UDOT says I am 
good to go.  “So tell your guy to shut the F*** up and just do his job. “

This time sprint boss was meek and mild and offered to cooperate any way 
possible.
I actually apologized for the harsh words, but was expecting the same attitude 
as before.



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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Larry Smith]

That is true, did most of my college while serving in Europe.
My economics professor was Rebecca Keynes, wasn't
until like my fourth or fifth class that I found out her
grandfather was John Keynes (Keynesian Theory).

-- 
Larry Smith
lesm...@ecsis.net

On Fri June 12 2020 11:11, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> Professors are a mixed lot.  I took a course from this guy, who apparently
> is still teaching although he would be well into his 80’s now.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Butz
>
>
>
> I had no idea at the time he was a Holocaust denier.  I’ve never understood
> those people – my dad was in the Army in WWII and participated in
> liberating some concentration camps.  I mean, it’s a freakin’ fact, how can
> you deny facts.  Anyway, my recollection of Professor Butz was I had a
> friend who kept writing the name as “Prof. Butts” on his assignments and
> tests.  We kept telling him it was spelled Butz but he thought we were
> joking.  Brings new meaning to the expression “butt of a joke”.
>
>
>
>
>
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 10:54 AM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>
>
>
> Were you in the same class as I was?   We had the same professor, I think..
>  Drove me off the deep end...  Specially when he blocked the equations with
> his body as he erased!!   But we had this one other assoc-prof..   Name of
> Jim Clark..  He was wild, specially when he went into game theory and
> betting systems..  Yep that Clark.   Worked for him 20 years later...
>
> On 6/12/20 8:44 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
> Oh man. I was doing great in calculus until we got to differential
> equations. I blame the professor. Harry Blackman. What a terrible
> professor! He lectured with his back to the class and wrote on the
> blackboard; chalk in his outstretched right hand, and eraser in his
> outstretched left hand. He would write equations as he droned, and erased
> the information in the space between his hands. What a horrible experience
> that was!
>
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 6/12/2020 8:22 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
>
> See, I only cared about the digital stuff.   Though power, motors, etc.
> were pretty cool as well.   Grades were good in those classes.
>
>
>
> Senior project the advisor dinged me for building a system for a plant out
> of a microcontroller instead of using a PLC like he suggested.   But I want
> to do Microcontrollers.   Yep, first job was building industrial control
> systems with PLC’s.   I’m guessing I was a completely cocky bastard as a 21
> year old.   Perhaps someday I’ll grow out of that.   Or not.
>
>
>
> Heh, calculus.   My last all night study session managed to turn a
> perfectly good B+ in differential equations into a D.   Walked in to that
> exam and drew a complete blank.  Should have just slept, probably would
> have aced it.
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:46 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com  
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Those were the ONLY classes I cared about.  Got A’s in all things antenna
> and RF.
>
> Got A’s in most of the linear stuff.
>
>
>
> Got the B’s in the digital crap that doesn’t matter to anyone  (those
> guys are called bit freaks)
>
> Got a C- in integral calculus.
>
>
>
> From: Mark Radabaugh
>
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 8:42 AM
>
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>
>
>
> Hey, I was proud of that D in Microwave and Antenna systems :-)   D’s get
> degrees.   I’m never going to use this shit.   Take the EIT / PE exam?  
> Why the hell would I ever work as a consulting engineer.
>
>
>
> Of course my first job is a consulting engineer, and I deal with microwaves
> and antenna systems every day.
>
>
>
> Ah, to know then what I know now.   Just don’t make me do all this shit
> over again.
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:38 AM, Ken Hohhof   > wrote:
>
>
>
> Makes you wonder if a wire and an alligator clip could turn the aluminum
> box into an antenna.
>
>
>
> Yeah, fields & waves was not my best course in college.  And I have a fear
> of heights.  So of course I end up running a WISP.  But turning a Faraday
> cage into an antenna is probably not my best idea.
>
>
>
>
>
> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On
> Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 9:07 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group   > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>
>
>
> I like your solution actually.   Should work out well.   Hardest part with
> trailers is getting through the aluminum box.   Putting AP’s close will
> help a lot.
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 12, 2020, at 9:54 AM, Adam Moffett   > wrote:
>
>
>
> Wow this thread blew up while I was sleeping.
>
> I'm proposing both a wireless and fiber solution.  I'm sure they'll pick
> WiFi because it'll be cheaper, but I wanted to put all the cards on the
> table.
>
> As far as why I'm bothering to propose fiber:
>
> 1) If there's f

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Adam Moffett]

There's a psychology theoryI don't know the proper name of 
itwhere the idea is the smarter someone is the better they are at 
building a mental framework to support a faulty idea.  It seems to fit 
with the stereotype of eccentric professors.




On 6/12/2020 12:11 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


Professors are a mixed lot.  I took a course from this guy, who 
apparently is still teaching although he would be well into his 80’s now.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Butz

I had no idea at the time he was a Holocaust denier.  I’ve never 
understood those people – my dad was in the Army in WWII and 
participated in liberating some concentration camps.  I mean, it’s a 
freakin’ fact, how can you deny facts.  Anyway, my recollection of 
Professor Butz was I had a friend who kept writing the name as “Prof. 
Butts” on his assignments and tests.  We kept telling him it was 
spelled Butz but he thought we were joking.  Brings new meaning to the 
expression “butt of a joke”.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Robert
*Sent:* Friday, June 12, 2020 10:54 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

Were you in the same class as I was?   We had the same professor, I 
think..  Drove me off the deep end...  Specially when he blocked the 
equations with his body as he erased!!   But we had this one other 
assoc-prof..   Name of Jim Clark..  He was wild, specially when he 
went into game theory and betting systems..  Yep that Clark.   Worked 
for him 20 years later...


On 6/12/20 8:44 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

Oh man. I was doing great in calculus until we got to differential
equations. I blame the professor. Harry Blackman. What a terrible
professor! He lectured with his back to the class and wrote on the
blackboard; chalk in his outstretched right hand, and eraser in
his outstretched left hand. He would write equations as he droned,
and erased the information in the space between his hands. What a
horrible experience that was!

bp



On 6/12/2020 8:22 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

See, I only cared about the digital stuff.   Though power,
motors, etc. were pretty cool as well.   Grades were good in
those classes.

Senior project the advisor dinged me for building a system for
a plant out of a microcontroller instead of using a PLC like
he suggested.   But I want to do Microcontrollers.   Yep,
first job was building industrial control systems with PLC’s.
  I’m guessing I was a completely cocky bastard as a 21 year
old.   Perhaps someday I’ll grow out of that.   Or not.

Heh, calculus.   My last all night study session managed to
turn a perfectly good B+ in differential equations into a D.  
Walked in to that exam and drew a complete blank.  Should have
just slept, probably would have aced it.

Mark



On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:46 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
 wrote:

Those were the ONLY classes I cared about.  Got A’s in all
things antenna and RF.

Got A’s in most of the linear stuff.

Got the B’s in the digital crap that doesn’t matter to
anyone  (those guys are called bit freaks)

Got a C- in integral calculus.

*From:*Mark Radabaugh

*Sent:*Friday, June 12, 2020 8:42 AM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

Hey, I was proud of that D in Microwave and Antenna
systems :-)   D’s get degrees.   I’m never going to use
this shit.   Take the EIT / PE exam?   Why the hell would
I ever work as a consulting engineer.

Of course my first job is a consulting engineer, and I
deal with microwaves and antenna systems every day.

Ah, to know then what I know now.   Just don’t make me do
all this shit over again.

Mark



On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:38 AM, Ken Hohhof
mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:

Makes you wonder if a wire and an alligator clip could
turn the aluminum box into an antenna.

Yeah, fields & waves was not my best course in
college.  And I have a fear of heights.  So of course
I end up running a WISP.  But turning a Faraday cage
into an antenna is probably not my best idea.

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>>*On Behalf Of*Mark
Radabaugh
*Sent:*Friday, June 12, 2020 9:07 AM
*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

I like your solution actually.   Should work out
well.   Hardest part with trailers is getting through
the aluminum box.   Putting AP’

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Robert]

I worked on the Stanford campus in the 70's..  saw and talked to 
Shockley on a semi-daily basis.  Had no idea of the idiocy that he 
supported.  Just seemed like a very aloof guy but liked to chat...  Yeah 
we are in an age where these people are getting to say what they used to 
have to hide...


On 6/12/20 9:11 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


Professors are a mixed lot.  I took a course from this guy, who 
apparently is still teaching although he would be well into his 80’s now.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Butz

I had no idea at the time he was a Holocaust denier.  I’ve never 
understood those people – my dad was in the Army in WWII and 
participated in liberating some concentration camps.  I mean, it’s a 
freakin’ fact, how can you deny facts.  Anyway, my recollection of 
Professor Butz was I had a friend who kept writing the name as “Prof. 
Butts” on his assignments and tests.  We kept telling him it was 
spelled Butz but he thought we were joking.  Brings new meaning to the 
expression “butt of a joke”.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Robert
*Sent:* Friday, June 12, 2020 10:54 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

Were you in the same class as I was?   We had the same professor, I 
think..  Drove me off the deep end...  Specially when he blocked the 
equations with his body as he erased!!   But we had this one other 
assoc-prof..   Name of Jim Clark..  He was wild, specially when he 
went into game theory and betting systems..  Yep that Clark.   Worked 
for him 20 years later...


On 6/12/20 8:44 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

Oh man. I was doing great in calculus until we got to differential
equations. I blame the professor. Harry Blackman. What a terrible
professor! He lectured with his back to the class and wrote on the
blackboard; chalk in his outstretched right hand, and eraser in
his outstretched left hand. He would write equations as he droned,
and erased the information in the space between his hands. What a
horrible experience that was!

bp



On 6/12/2020 8:22 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

See, I only cared about the digital stuff.   Though power,
motors, etc. were pretty cool as well.   Grades were good in
those classes.

Senior project the advisor dinged me for building a system for
a plant out of a microcontroller instead of using a PLC like
he suggested.   But I want to do Microcontrollers.   Yep,
first job was building industrial control systems with PLC’s.
  I’m guessing I was a completely cocky bastard as a 21 year
old.   Perhaps someday I’ll grow out of that.   Or not.

Heh, calculus.   My last all night study session managed to
turn a perfectly good B+ in differential equations into a D.  
Walked in to that exam and drew a complete blank.  Should have
just slept, probably would have aced it.

Mark



On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:46 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
 wrote:

Those were the ONLY classes I cared about.  Got A’s in all
things antenna and RF.

Got A’s in most of the linear stuff.

Got the B’s in the digital crap that doesn’t matter to
anyone  (those guys are called bit freaks)

Got a C- in integral calculus.

*From:*Mark Radabaugh

*Sent:*Friday, June 12, 2020 8:42 AM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

Hey, I was proud of that D in Microwave and Antenna
systems :-)   D’s get degrees.   I’m never going to use
this shit.   Take the EIT / PE exam?   Why the hell would
I ever work as a consulting engineer.

Of course my first job is a consulting engineer, and I
deal with microwaves and antenna systems every day.

Ah, to know then what I know now.   Just don’t make me do
all this shit over again.

Mark



On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:38 AM, Ken Hohhof
mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:

Makes you wonder if a wire and an alligator clip could
turn the aluminum box into an antenna.

Yeah, fields & waves was not my best course in
college.  And I have a fear of heights.  So of course
I end up running a WISP.  But turning a Faraday cage
into an antenna is probably not my best idea.

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>>*On Behalf Of*Mark
Radabaugh
*Sent:*Friday, June 12, 2020 9:07 AM
*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

I like your solution actually.   Should work out
well.   Hardest part with trailers is getting through
  

[AFMUG] Antenna gain vs transmit power

[Josh]

If you have two ptmp antennas with the same sector width and same model ap 
attached to them, and one antenna is 4 db less gain then the other. If 
additional 4db of transmit power is applied to the lower gain antenna, would 
the two sectors perform roughly the same? Is one db of radio transmit power 
truly equivalent 1 db of antenna gain, or is there more to it?

 

Josh Heide
Operations Manager
209-838-1221 | velociter.net
j...@velociter.net
1525 2nd Street, Escalon, CA 95320

 

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Adam Moffett]

If you mean because of the Internet then I agree with that.  I asked an 
astronomy question on Quora and an actual astronomer answered it.  That 
kind of direct access to information and expertise is amazing.  On the 
other hand, since anyone can put anything out there a lot of fringe 
people are finding and supporting each other.


Holocaust deniers sure, but also every other brand of idiocy like 
homeopathy, magic rocks, antivax, neonazi's, etc.



On 6/12/2020 1:15 PM, Robert wrote:
I worked on the Stanford campus in the 70's..  saw and talked to 
Shockley on a semi-daily basis.  Had no idea of the idiocy that he 
supported.  Just seemed like a very aloof guy but liked to chat...  
Yeah we are in an age where these people are getting to say what they 
used to have to hide...


On 6/12/20 9:11 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


Professors are a mixed lot.  I took a course from this guy, who 
apparently is still teaching although he would be well into his 80’s now.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Butz

I had no idea at the time he was a Holocaust denier.  I’ve never 
understood those people – my dad was in the Army in WWII and 
participated in liberating some concentration camps.  I mean, it’s a 
freakin’ fact, how can you deny facts.  Anyway, my recollection of 
Professor Butz was I had a friend who kept writing the name as “Prof. 
Butts” on his assignments and tests.  We kept telling him it was 
spelled Butz but he thought we were joking.  Brings new meaning to 
the expression “butt of a joke”.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Robert
*Sent:* Friday, June 12, 2020 10:54 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

Were you in the same class as I was?   We had the same professor, I 
think..  Drove me off the deep end...  Specially when he blocked the 
equations with his body as he erased!!   But we had this one other 
assoc-prof..   Name of Jim Clark..  He was wild, specially when he 
went into game theory and betting systems..  Yep that Clark.   Worked 
for him 20 years later...


On 6/12/20 8:44 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

Oh man. I was doing great in calculus until we got to
differential equations. I blame the professor. Harry Blackman.
What a terrible professor! He lectured with his back to the class
and wrote on the blackboard; chalk in his outstretched right
hand, and eraser in his outstretched left hand. He would write
equations as he droned, and erased the information in the space
between his hands. What a horrible experience that was!

bp



On 6/12/2020 8:22 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

See, I only cared about the digital stuff.   Though power,
motors, etc. were pretty cool as well.   Grades were good in
those classes.

Senior project the advisor dinged me for building a system
for a plant out of a microcontroller instead of using a PLC
like he suggested.   But I want to do Microcontrollers.  
Yep, first job was building industrial control systems with
PLC’s.   I’m guessing I was a completely cocky bastard as a
21 year old.   Perhaps someday I’ll grow out of that.   Or not.

Heh, calculus.   My last all night study session managed to
turn a perfectly good B+ in differential equations into a D.
  Walked in to that exam and drew a complete blank.  Should
have just slept, probably would have aced it.

Mark



On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:46 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
 wrote:

Those were the ONLY classes I cared about.  Got A’s in
all things antenna and RF.

Got A’s in most of the linear stuff.

Got the B’s in the digital crap that doesn’t matter to
anyone  (those guys are called bit freaks)

Got a C- in integral calculus.

*From:*Mark Radabaugh

*Sent:*Friday, June 12, 2020 8:42 AM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

Hey, I was proud of that D in Microwave and Antenna
systems :-)   D’s get degrees.   I’m never going to use
this shit.   Take the EIT / PE exam?   Why the hell would
I ever work as a consulting engineer.

Of course my first job is a consulting engineer, and I
deal with microwaves and antenna systems every day.

Ah, to know then what I know now.   Just don’t make me do
all this shit over again.

Mark



On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:38 AM, Ken Hohhof
mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:

Makes you wonder if a wire and an alligator clip
could turn the aluminum box into an antenna.

Yeah, fields & waves was not my best course in
college.  And I have a fear of heights.  So of course
I end up running a WISP.  But turning a Faraday cage
 

Re: [AFMUG] Antenna gain vs transmit power

[Adam Moffett]

A db is a db, but an antenna works in both directions and tx power only 
works in the tx direction.


So they'll perform the same in one direction only.


On 6/12/2020 1:20 PM, Josh wrote:


If you have two ptmp antennas with the same sector width and same 
model ap attached to them, and one antenna is 4 db less gain then the 
other. If additional 4db of transmit power is applied to the lower 
gain antenna, would the two sectors perform roughly the same? Is one 
db of radio transmit power truly equivalent 1 db of antenna gain, or 
is there more to it?


Josh Heide
Operations Manager
209-838-1221 | velociter.net 
j...@velociter.net 
1525 2nd Street, Escalon, CA 95320


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[chuck]

I understand some of his logic and arguments.  I think there is some 
scientifically valid foundation for “some” of his ideas.  
If you were talking animal husbandry there would probably be no controversy.

But the way he presented the ideas were sure to draw a s*it storm.  For someone 
that smart to be so stupid is astounding.  Unless you consider he may have been 
on the asperberger/autism spectrum.  

From: Robert 
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 11:15 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

I worked on the Stanford campus in the 70's..  saw and talked to Shockley on a 
semi-daily basis.  Had no idea of the idiocy that he supported.  Just seemed 
like a very aloof guy but liked to chat...  Yeah we are in an age where these 
people are getting to say what they used to have to hide...


On 6/12/20 9:11 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

  Professors are a mixed lot.  I took a course from this guy, who apparently is 
still teaching although he would be well into his 80’s now.

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Butz

   

  I had no idea at the time he was a Holocaust denier.  I’ve never understood 
those people – my dad was in the Army in WWII and participated in liberating 
some concentration camps.  I mean, it’s a freakin’ fact, how can you deny 
facts.  Anyway, my recollection of Professor Butz was I had a friend who kept 
writing the name as “Prof. Butts” on his assignments and tests.  We kept 
telling him it was spelled Butz but he thought we were joking.  Brings new 
meaning to the expression “butt of a joke”.

   

   

  From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Robert
  Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 10:54 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

   

  Were you in the same class as I was?   We had the same professor, I think..  
Drove me off the deep end...  Specially when he blocked the equations with his 
body as he erased!!   But we had this one other assoc-prof..   Name of Jim 
Clark..  He was wild, specially when he went into game theory and betting 
systems..  Yep that Clark.   Worked for him 20 years later...

  On 6/12/20 8:44 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

Oh man. I was doing great in calculus until we got to differential 
equations. I blame the professor. Harry Blackman. What a terrible professor! He 
lectured with his back to the class and wrote on the blackboard; chalk in his 
outstretched right hand, and eraser in his outstretched left hand. He would 
write equations as he droned, and erased the information in the space between 
his hands. What a horrible experience that was!

 

bp On 6/12/2020 8:22 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

  See, I only cared about the digital stuff.   Though power, motors, etc. 
were pretty cool as well.   Grades were good in those classes.

   

  Senior project the advisor dinged me for building a system for a plant 
out of a microcontroller instead of using a PLC like he suggested.   But I want 
to do Microcontrollers.   Yep, first job was building industrial control 
systems with PLC’s.   I’m guessing I was a completely cocky bastard as a 21 
year old.   Perhaps someday I’ll grow out of that.   Or not.

   

  Heh, calculus.   My last all night study session managed to turn a 
perfectly good B+ in differential equations into a D.   Walked in to that exam 
and drew a complete blank.  Should have just slept, probably would have aced it.

   

  Mark





On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:46 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

 

Those were the ONLY classes I cared about.  Got A’s in all things 
antenna and RF.

Got A’s in most of the linear stuff.  

 

Got the B’s in the digital crap that doesn’t matter to anyone  
(those guys are called bit freaks)

Got a C- in integral calculus.  

 

From: Mark Radabaugh 

Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 8:42 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

 

Hey, I was proud of that D in Microwave and Antenna systems :-)   D’s 
get degrees.   I’m never going to use this shit.   Take the EIT / PE exam?   
Why the hell would I ever work as a consulting engineer. 

 

Of course my first job is a consulting engineer, and I deal with 
microwaves and antenna systems every day.

 

Ah, to know then what I know now.   Just don’t make me do all this shit 
over again.

 

Mark





  On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:38 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

   

  Makes you wonder if a wire and an alligator clip could turn the 
aluminum box into an antenna.

   

  Yeah, fields & waves was not my best course in college.  And I have a 
fear of heights.  So of course I end up running a WISP.  But turning a Faraday 
cage into an antenna is probably not my best idea.

   

   

  From: AF  On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
  Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 9:0

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[chuck]

I was not alive during the Holocaust, nor have I ever been to Germany.  
So I only know what I have experienced.

But the overwhelming quantity of media on the subject seems to indicate 
something happened
Oh, and the fact I actually knew someone with a tattoo on their arm... yeah, 
there’s that...

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 11:21 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

If you mean because of the Internet then I agree with that.  I asked an 
astronomy question on Quora and an actual astronomer answered it.  That kind of 
direct access to information and expertise is amazing.  On the other hand, 
since anyone can put anything out there a lot of fringe people are finding and 
supporting each other.  


Holocaust deniers sure, but also every other brand of idiocy like homeopathy, 
magic rocks, antivax, neonazi's, etc. 




On 6/12/2020 1:15 PM, Robert wrote:

  I worked on the Stanford campus in the 70's..  saw and talked to Shockley on 
a semi-daily basis.  Had no idea of the idiocy that he supported.  Just seemed 
like a very aloof guy but liked to chat...  Yeah we are in an age where these 
people are getting to say what they used to have to hide...


  On 6/12/20 9:11 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Professors are a mixed lot.  I took a course from this guy, who apparently 
is still teaching although he would be well into his 80’s now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Butz

 

I had no idea at the time he was a Holocaust denier.  I’ve never understood 
those people – my dad was in the Army in WWII and participated in liberating 
some concentration camps.  I mean, it’s a freakin’ fact, how can you deny 
facts.  Anyway, my recollection of Professor Butz was I had a friend who kept 
writing the name as “Prof. Butts” on his assignments and tests.  We kept 
telling him it was spelled Butz but he thought we were joking.  Brings new 
meaning to the expression “butt of a joke”.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 10:54 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

 

Were you in the same class as I was?   We had the same professor, I think.. 
 Drove me off the deep end...  Specially when he blocked the equations with his 
body as he erased!!   But we had this one other assoc-prof..   Name of Jim 
Clark..  He was wild, specially when he went into game theory and betting 
systems..  Yep that Clark.   Worked for him 20 years later...

On 6/12/20 8:44 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

  Oh man. I was doing great in calculus until we got to differential 
equations. I blame the professor. Harry Blackman. What a terrible professor! He 
lectured with his back to the class and wrote on the blackboard; chalk in his 
outstretched right hand, and eraser in his outstretched left hand. He would 
write equations as he droned, and erased the information in the space between 
his hands. What a horrible experience that was!

   

bp On 6/12/2020 8:22 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

See, I only cared about the digital stuff.   Though power, motors, etc. 
were pretty cool as well.   Grades were good in those classes.

 

Senior project the advisor dinged me for building a system for a plant 
out of a microcontroller instead of using a PLC like he suggested.   But I want 
to do Microcontrollers.   Yep, first job was building industrial control 
systems with PLC’s.   I’m guessing I was a completely cocky bastard as a 21 
year old.   Perhaps someday I’ll grow out of that.   Or not.

 

Heh, calculus.   My last all night study session managed to turn a 
perfectly good B+ in differential equations into a D.   Walked in to that exam 
and drew a complete blank.  Should have just slept, probably would have aced it.

 

Mark





  On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:46 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

   

  Those were the ONLY classes I cared about.  Got A’s in all things 
antenna and RF.

  Got A’s in most of the linear stuff.  

   

  Got the B’s in the digital crap that doesn’t matter to anyone  
(those guys are called bit freaks)

  Got a C- in integral calculus.  

   

  From: Mark Radabaugh 

  Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 8:42 AM

  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

   

  Hey, I was proud of that D in Microwave and Antenna systems :-)   D’s 
get degrees.   I’m never going to use this shit.   Take the EIT / PE exam?   
Why the hell would I ever work as a consulting engineer. 

   

  Of course my first job is a consulting engineer, and I deal with 
microwaves and antenna systems every day.

   

  Ah, to know then what I know now.   Just don’t make me do all this 
shit over again.

   

  Mark





On Jun 12, 2020, at 1

Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

[Mathew Howard]

I'm pretty sure I saw you selling reverse mortgages on TV the other day...

On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 10:33 AM  wrote:

> Yeah, and I have been infringing on that particular piece of IP so long
> that he has lost his right to enforce it I think...
>
> *From:* Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Friday, June 12, 2020 9:31 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!
>
>
> Nice profile pic, Magnum P.I.
> On 6/12/2020 11:29 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> I honestly don’t know how you follow me other than to read one of the
> answers I have posted and follow that.
> Things like this:
>
> https://www.quora.com/Do-I-need-to-account-for-the-phase-difference-between-dipole-antennas-in-an-array-by-adding-a-phasing-cable
>
> I have 1510 answers on there so far.  Should hit 2000 by the end of the
> year.
>
> *From:* Robert
> *Sent:* Friday, June 12, 2020 9:17 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!
>
> What's your quora?  I'd follow that...
>
> On 6/12/20 7:29 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> But I have 138 quora followers.  I care more about that number.
>
> *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Friday, June 12, 2020 8:15 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!
>
> Done.
> I had to see how many subs I had.  77
>
> *From:* Gino A. Villarini
> *Sent:* Friday, June 12, 2020 5:57 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!
>
>
> Friends & Colleagues, Help me reach 100 subs on my Youtube channel so I
> can have a url!
>
>
>
> Gigabits & Gigahertz is a vlog with industry content for all to enjoy.
>
>
>
> I hope it brings value to you all. Comments and suggestions welcomed!
>
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-qjRCvu2lNt89xaXppPIEQ/
> 
>
>
>
> *Gino*
> *Villarini *Founder/President
> @gvillarini
> t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
> [image: aeronet-logo]  [image: inc500]
>  [image: fb-logo]
>   [image: insta-logo]
>   [image: in-logo]
>   [image:
> tw-logo]
> 
>   [image: yt-logo]
> 
> 
> www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Huevo con Chorizo torta

[Steve Jones]

I know you find it a sin to put peppers in vinegar, but we are talking rice
vinegar here
slice 4-6 decent size serranos and 2 habanero (green has better flavor,
orange has better heat) and layer them in a pint jar seeds and all. fill it
with rice vinegar and refrigerate it for 2 days. flavored heat without the
pepper sitting in your gut destroying everything it sees

I spoon this vinegar onto everything, that sandwich is begging for a
spoonful sopped into the bread.

I also dumped the spicy vinegar and half the peppers from the jar into a
pan of homestyle ribs after searing them and baked them for a few hours, so
tasty.

On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 12:07 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Scrambled eggs, chorizo, cheese, jalapeno (super hot!) and onion...yum yum
> yum
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] Aviat vs Bridgewave multi-carrier battle

[Daniel White]

Considering how little 11GHz spectrum you have available in Chicago land
already... why would you want to encourage people to license even larger
chucks of spectrum that they don't necessarily need?

80MHz channels came when the FCC opted to allow the previous max channel
size in 11GHz to double from 40MHz and to harmonize with 18GHz.

You could argue why have a maximum channel size/emission designator at
all.  The answer is simple, to give as many people access to the band as
possible and make frequency coordination possible.

photograph  
Daniel White
Co-Founder & Managing Director of Operations
phone: +1 (702) 470-2770
direct:+1 (702) 470-2766

Mike Hammett wrote on 6/11/20 08:37:
> Generally, starting from a better-educated position is wise.
>
> What are the reasons for what we have now? Just that no one asked?
>
> What are the reasons it should stay the same?
>
>
>
> - 
> Mike Hammett 
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>
> The Brothers WISP 
>
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Tim Hardy" 
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 9:24:30 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Aviat vs Bridgewave multi-carrier battle
>
> All I meant was that 112 MHz bandwidth is an “ETSI” configuration.  There’s 
> nothing in Part 101 that allows bandwidths greater than 80 MHz, so that 
> particular configuration is not allowed in the US.  Other ETSI 
> configurations,  28 MHz or 56 MHz bandwidth are legal here and can be 
> licensed.
>
> Rules changes like this are not an easy process and require significant 
> backing.  If this is required, you need to get WISPA lobbying it before the 
> FCC and it would help to get FWCC, NSMA, and CTIA as well.  From start to 
> finish, it will likely take 2 or more years.
>
>
>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 10:00 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>> I suspect you have this backward.  It's not so much a rule against using an 
>> ETSI configuration, as the lack of that configuration in the FCC rules.  It 
>> would have to be added to Title 47, and manufacturers would have to (self) 
>> certify their equipment to the new rule.
>>
>> What convincing arguments would you put forward for a rules change?  It 
>> seems more like I want to buy European equipment designed for ETSI rules and 
>> use it here.  Perhaps not the best political climate for such an appeal.  Do 
>> you want Freedom Fries with that?
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 8:10 AM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Aviat vs Bridgewave multi-carrier battle
>>
>> Recommendations for changing that rule?
>>
>>
>>
>> - 
>> Mike Hammett 
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>>
>> The Brothers WISP 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Tim Hardy" 
>> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 6:49:30 AM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Aviat vs Bridgewave multi-carrier battle
>>
>>
>> Daniel is correct, and the notion that one could coordinate and license an 
>> 80 MHz channel pair with a 40 MHz pair separated by 60 MHz to somehow block 
>> out a 120 MHz chunk to then operate a 112 MHz bandwidth ETSI configuration 
>> is patently false. Any vendor (integrator, radio OEM or coordinator) that is 
>> “pushing” this concept to licensees needs to cease. A potential FCC 
>> Enforcement action would be against the operator, not the vendor that may 
>> have promoted this illicit scheme, so buyer beware. 
>>
>>
>> Just to reiterate the primary concern - The maximum allowable bandwidth for 
>> any single transmit frequency in the 11 or 18 GHz bands in the US is 80 MHz. 
>> Any use of larger bandwidths would require at least two significant rule 
>> waiver requests with each FCC application. A recent review of FCC licensed 
>> records found no (zero) frequencies with bandwidths greater than 80 MHz, 
>> therefore, anyone using 112 MHz bandwidth (as discussed by at least one 
>> vendor in this thread) would be doing so at their own peril. 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 10, 2020, at 12:57 PM, Peter Kranz via AF < af@af.afmug.com > wrote: 
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes you can always couple two discrete radios together with a coupler to 
>> achieve a 4+0, or 4 together for a 8+0 😊 
>> My comparison is for all in one units from Bridgewave and Aviat. 
>>
>>
>> Peter Kranz 
>> www.UnwiredLtd.com 
>> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100 
>> Mobile: 510-207- 
>> pkr...@unwiredltd.com 
>>
>>
>>
>> From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Daniel White 
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2020 8:10 AM 
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Aviat vs Bridgewave multi-carrier battle 
>>
>>
>> I would be surprised if any dual-core radio didn't support 4+0... although 
>> it may not aggregate the data streams. You will need to use a coupler, which 
>> will give you 3.5dB of loss per side (or 7dB of t

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Huevo con Chorizo torta

[Jaime Solorza]

Ah no...lol

On Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 11:50 AM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> I know you find it a sin to put peppers in vinegar, but we are talking
> rice vinegar here
> slice 4-6 decent size serranos and 2 habanero (green has better flavor,
> orange has better heat) and layer them in a pint jar seeds and all. fill it
> with rice vinegar and refrigerate it for 2 days. flavored heat without the
> pepper sitting in your gut destroying everything it sees
>
> I spoon this vinegar onto everything, that sandwich is begging for a
> spoonful sopped into the bread.
>
> I also dumped the spicy vinegar and half the peppers from the jar into a
> pan of homestyle ribs after searing them and baked them for a few hours, so
> tasty.
>
> On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 12:07 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> Scrambled eggs, chorizo, cheese, jalapeno (super hot!) and onion...yum
>> yum yum
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Antenna gain vs transmit power

[Daniel White]

You also assuming the CPE is in the main lobe (and that lobe shape isn't
different between the sectors).

Antenna Gain > TX Power Gain.  Not only because it is bi-directional but
there are plenty of benefits to increasing antenna gain and not TX power.

But as Adam said... a dB is a dB

photograph  
Daniel White
Co-Founder & Managing Director of Operations
phone: +1 (702) 470-2770
direct:+1 (702) 470-2766

Adam Moffett wrote on 6/12/20 11:22:
>
> A db is a db, but an antenna works in both directions and tx power
> only works in the tx direction.
>
> So they'll perform the same in one direction only.
>
>
> On 6/12/2020 1:20 PM, Josh wrote:
>>
>> If you have two ptmp antennas with the same sector width and same
>> model ap attached to them, and one antenna is 4 db less gain then the
>> other. If additional 4db of transmit power is applied to the lower
>> gain antenna, would the two sectors perform roughly the same? Is one
>> db of radio transmit power truly equivalent 1 db of antenna gain, or
>> is there more to it?
>>
>>  
>>
>> Josh Heide
>> Operations Manager
>> 209-838-1221 | velociter.net 
>> j...@velociter.net 
>> 1525 2nd Street, Escalon, CA 95320
>>
>>  
>>
>>
>
>

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Re: [AFMUG] Antenna gain vs transmit power

[Bill Prince]

  
  
The other issue is the distortion of the transmitter at the
  higher power. Amp output is linear through a range of power
  output, and when you get to the edges of the power envelope, they
  can start to distort.

bp



On 6/12/2020 10:54 AM, Daniel White
  wrote:


  
  You also
assuming the CPE is in the main lobe (and that lobe shape isn't
different between the sectors).

Antenna Gain > TX Power Gain.  Not only because it is
bi-directional but there are plenty of benefits to increasing
antenna gain and not TX power.

But as Adam said... a dB is a dB

  

  


  

  
Daniel White
Co-Founder &
Managing Director of Operations
  
  
phone: +1 (702)
  470-2770
direct: +1 (702)
  470-2766

  

  

  

  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
Adam Moffett wrote on 6/12/20 11:22:

  
  A db is a db, but an antenna works in both directions and
tx power only works in the tx direction.
  So they'll perform the same in one direction only.
  
  
  On 6/12/2020 1:20 PM, Josh wrote:
  
  




  If you have two ptmp antennas with
the same sector width and same model ap attached to
them, and one antenna is 4 db less gain then the other.
If additional 4db of transmit power is applied to the
lower gain antenna, would the two sectors perform
roughly the same? Is one db of radio transmit power
truly equivalent 1 db of antenna gain, or is there more
to it?
   
  

  Josh
  Heide
  Operations Manager
  209-838-1221 | velociter.net
  j...@velociter.net
  1525 2nd Street, Escalon, CA 95320

  
   



  
  
  
  


  
  
  

  


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Re: [AFMUG] Antenna gain vs transmit power

[Mathew Howard]

Yeah... you'll lose 4db on the AP's RX side, but in some cases the the CPE
TX power can be increased to compensate, so actual performance should be
pretty much the same.

On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 12:54 PM Daniel White  wrote:

> You also assuming the CPE is in the main lobe (and that lobe shape isn't
> different between the sectors).
>
> Antenna Gain > TX Power Gain.  Not only because it is bi-directional but
> there are plenty of benefits to increasing antenna gain and not TX power.
>
> But as Adam said... a dB is a dB
>
> [image: photograph]
> Daniel White
> Co-Founder & Managing Director of Operations
> phone: +1 (702) 470-2770
> direct: +1 (702) 470-2766
> Adam Moffett wrote on 6/12/20 11:22:
>
> A db is a db, but an antenna works in both directions and tx power only
> works in the tx direction.
>
> So they'll perform the same in one direction only.
>
>
> On 6/12/2020 1:20 PM, Josh wrote:
>
> If you have two ptmp antennas with the same sector width and same model ap
> attached to them, and one antenna is 4 db less gain then the other. If
> additional 4db of transmit power is applied to the lower gain antenna,
> would the two sectors perform roughly the same? Is one db of radio transmit
> power truly equivalent 1 db of antenna gain, or is there more to it?
>
>
>
> Josh Heide
> Operations Manager
> 209-838-1221 | velociter.net
> j...@velociter.net
> 1525 2nd Street, Escalon, CA 95320
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Antenna gain vs transmit power

[Mathew Howard]

Yeah, there's that too... but whether or not you'll get distortion depends
on the specific radio and on the power levels that we're talking about. If
you're talking about 16dbm vs 20dbm, it's probably not going to make a
difference to most radios, but 26dbm vs 30dbm is another story,

On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 12:59 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> The other issue is the distortion of the transmitter at the higher power.
> Amp output is linear through a range of power output, and when you get to
> the edges of the power envelope, they can start to distort.
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 6/12/2020 10:54 AM, Daniel White wrote:
>
> You also assuming the CPE is in the main lobe (and that lobe shape isn't
> different between the sectors).
>
> Antenna Gain > TX Power Gain.  Not only because it is bi-directional but
> there are plenty of benefits to increasing antenna gain and not TX power.
>
> But as Adam said... a dB is a dB
>
> [image: photograph]
> Daniel White
> Co-Founder & Managing Director of Operations
> phone: +1 (702) 470-2770
> direct: +1 (702) 470-2766
> Adam Moffett wrote on 6/12/20 11:22:
>
> A db is a db, but an antenna works in both directions and tx power only
> works in the tx direction.
>
> So they'll perform the same in one direction only.
>
>
> On 6/12/2020 1:20 PM, Josh wrote:
>
> If you have two ptmp antennas with the same sector width and same model ap
> attached to them, and one antenna is 4 db less gain then the other. If
> additional 4db of transmit power is applied to the lower gain antenna,
> would the two sectors perform roughly the same? Is one db of radio transmit
> power truly equivalent 1 db of antenna gain, or is there more to it?
>
>
>
> Josh Heide
> Operations Manager
> 209-838-1221 | velociter.net
> j...@velociter.net
> 1525 2nd Street, Escalon, CA 95320
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

[chuck]

As long as it is not diapers.  

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 11:47 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

I'm pretty sure I saw you selling reverse mortgages on TV the other day...


On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 10:33 AM  wrote:

  Yeah, and I have been infringing on that particular piece of IP so long that 
he has lost his right to enforce it I think...

  From: Adam Moffett 
  Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 9:31 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

  Nice profile pic, Magnum P.I.


  On 6/12/2020 11:29 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

I honestly don’t know how you follow me other than to read one of the 
answers I have posted and follow that.  
Things like this:

https://www.quora.com/Do-I-need-to-account-for-the-phase-difference-between-dipole-antennas-in-an-array-by-adding-a-phasing-cable

I have 1510 answers on there so far.  Should hit 2000 by the end of the 
year.  

From: Robert 
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 9:17 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

What's your quora?  I'd follow that...


On 6/12/20 7:29 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  But I have 138 quora followers.  I care more about that number.

  From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
  Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 8:15 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

  Done.
  I had to see how many subs I had.  77

  From: Gino A. Villarini 
  Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 5:57 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

  Friends & Colleagues, Help me reach 100 subs on my Youtube channel so I 
can have a url! 



  Gigabits & Gigahertz is a vlog with industry content for all to enjoy. 



  I hope it brings value to you all. Comments and suggestions welcomed!

  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-qjRCvu2lNt89xaXppPIEQ/



  Gino Villarini 
  Founder/President
  @gvillarini
  t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204 


  
   

  www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968 
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Re: [AFMUG] Aviat vs Bridgewave multi-carrier battle

[chuck]

Get while the getting is good... it’s the American Way.

From: Daniel White 
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 11:51 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Aviat vs Bridgewave multi-carrier battle

Considering how little 11GHz spectrum you have available in Chicago land 
already... why would you want to encourage people to license even larger chucks 
of spectrum that they don't necessarily need?

80MHz channels came when the FCC opted to allow the previous max channel size 
in 11GHz to double from 40MHz and to harmonize with 18GHz.

You could argue why have a maximum channel size/emission designator at all.  
The answer is simple, to give as many people access to the band as possible and 
make frequency coordination possible.


 Daniel White
Co-Founder & Managing Director of Operations 
phone: +1 (702) 470-2770
direct: +1 (702) 470-2766
   
 

Mike Hammett wrote on 6/11/20 08:37:

Generally, starting from a better-educated position is wise.

What are the reasons for what we have now? Just that no one asked?

What are the reasons it should stay the same?



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





- Original Message -
From: "Tim Hardy" mailto:thardy...@gmail.com
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 9:24:30 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Aviat vs Bridgewave multi-carrier battle

All I meant was that 112 MHz bandwidth is an “ETSI” configuration.  There’s 
nothing in Part 101 that allows bandwidths greater than 80 MHz, so that 
particular configuration is not allowed in the US.  Other ETSI configurations,  
28 MHz or 56 MHz bandwidth are legal here and can be licensed.

Rules changes like this are not an easy process and require significant 
backing.  If this is required, you need to get WISPA lobbying it before the FCC 
and it would help to get FWCC, NSMA, and CTIA as well.  From start to finish, 
it will likely take 2 or more years.


On Jun 11, 2020, at 10:00 AM, Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com wrote:

I suspect you have this backward.  It's not so much a rule against using an 
ETSI configuration, as the lack of that configuration in the FCC rules.  It 
would have to be added to Title 47, and manufacturers would have to (self) 
certify their equipment to the new rule.

What convincing arguments would you put forward for a rules change?  It seems 
more like I want to buy European equipment designed for ETSI rules and use it 
here.  Perhaps not the best political climate for such an appeal.  Do you want 
Freedom Fries with that?


-Original Message-
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 8:10 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Aviat vs Bridgewave multi-carrier battle

Recommendations for changing that rule?



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





- Original Message -
From: "Tim Hardy" mailto:thardy...@gmail.com
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 6:49:30 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Aviat vs Bridgewave multi-carrier battle


Daniel is correct, and the notion that one could coordinate and license an 80 
MHz channel pair with a 40 MHz pair separated by 60 MHz to somehow block out a 
120 MHz chunk to then operate a 112 MHz bandwidth ETSI configuration is 
patently false. Any vendor (integrator, radio OEM or coordinator) that is 
“pushing” this concept to licensees needs to cease. A potential FCC Enforcement 
action would be against the operator, not the vendor that may have promoted 
this illicit scheme, so buyer beware. 


Just to reiterate the primary concern - The maximum allowable bandwidth for any 
single transmit frequency in the 11 or 18 GHz bands in the US is 80 MHz. Any 
use of larger bandwidths would require at least two significant rule waiver 
requests with each FCC application. A recent review of FCC licensed records 
found no (zero) frequencies with bandwidths greater than 80 MHz, therefore, 
anyone using 112 MHz bandwidth (as discussed by at least one vendor in this 
thread) would be doing so at their own peril. 







On Jun 10, 2020, at 12:57 PM, Peter Kranz via AF < af@af.afmug.com > wrote: 



Yes you can always couple two discrete radios together with a coupler to 
achieve a 4+0, or 4 together for a 8+0 😊 
My comparison is for all in one units from Bridgewave and Aviat. 


Peter Kranz 
www.UnwiredLtd.com 
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100 
Mobile: 510-207- 
pkr...@unwiredltd.com 



From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Daniel White 
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2020 8:10 AM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Aviat vs Bridgewave multi-carrier battle 


I would be surprised if any dual-core radio didn't support 4+0...

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[James Howard]

But the skeptic might argue that the fact that you knew someone with a tattoo 
on his arm actually proves that it didn’t happen since OBVIOUSLY he wasn’t 
killed……  It just proves that they put people in prison camps and/or tattooed 
them.


This topic definitely has the potential for an early Lent…..


From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 12:34 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

I was not alive during the Holocaust, nor have I ever been to Germany.
So I only know what I have experienced.

But the overwhelming quantity of media on the subject seems to indicate 
something happened
Oh, and the fact I actually knew someone with a tattoo on their arm... yeah, 
there’s that...

From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 11:21 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber


If you mean because of the Internet then I agree with that.  I asked an 
astronomy question on Quora and an actual astronomer answered it.  That kind of 
direct access to information and expertise is amazing.  On the other hand, 
since anyone can put anything out there a lot of fringe people are finding and 
supporting each other.

Holocaust deniers sure, but also every other brand of idiocy like homeopathy, 
magic rocks, antivax, neonazi's, etc.


On 6/12/2020 1:15 PM, Robert wrote:
I worked on the Stanford campus in the 70's..  saw and talked to Shockley on a 
semi-daily basis.  Had no idea of the idiocy that he supported.  Just seemed 
like a very aloof guy but liked to chat...  Yeah we are in an age where these 
people are getting to say what they used to have to hide...
On 6/12/20 9:11 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Professors are a mixed lot.  I took a course from this guy, who apparently is 
still teaching although he would be well into his 80’s now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Butz

I had no idea at the time he was a Holocaust denier.  I’ve never understood 
those people – my dad was in the Army in WWII and participated in liberating 
some concentration camps.  I mean, it’s a freakin’ fact, how can you deny 
facts.  Anyway, my recollection of Professor Butz was I had a friend who kept 
writing the name as “Prof. Butts” on his assignments and tests.  We kept 
telling him it was spelled Butz but he thought we were joking.  Brings new 
meaning to the expression “butt of a joke”.


From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 10:54 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

Were you in the same class as I was?   We had the same professor, I think..  
Drove me off the deep end...  Specially when he blocked the equations with his 
body as he erased!!   But we had this one other assoc-prof..   Name of Jim 
Clark..  He was wild, specially when he went into game theory and betting 
systems..  Yep that Clark.   Worked for him 20 years later...
On 6/12/20 8:44 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

Oh man. I was doing great in calculus until we got to differential equations. I 
blame the professor. Harry Blackman. What a terrible professor! He lectured 
with his back to the class and wrote on the blackboard; chalk in his 
outstretched right hand, and eraser in his outstretched left hand. He would 
write equations as he droned, and erased the information in the space between 
his hands. What a horrible experience that was!



bp




On 6/12/2020 8:22 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
See, I only cared about the digital stuff.   Though power, motors, etc. were 
pretty cool as well.   Grades were good in those classes.

Senior project the advisor dinged me for building a system for a plant out of a 
microcontroller instead of using a PLC like he suggested.   But I want to do 
Microcontrollers.   Yep, first job was building industrial control systems with 
PLC’s.   I’m guessing I was a completely cocky bastard as a 21 year old.   
Perhaps someday I’ll grow out of that.   Or not.

Heh, calculus.   My last all night study session managed to turn a perfectly 
good B+ in differential equations into a D.   Walked in to that exam and drew a 
complete blank.  Should have just slept, probably would have aced it.

Mark

On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:46 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Those were the ONLY classes I cared about.  Got A’s in all things antenna and 
RF.
Got A’s in most of the linear stuff.

Got the B’s in the digital crap that doesn’t matter to anyone  (those guys 
are called bit freaks)
Got a C- in integral calculus.

From: Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 8:42 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

Hey, I was proud of that D in Microwave and Antenna systems :-)   D’s get 
degrees.   I’m never going to use this shit.   Take the EIT / PE exam?   Why 
the hell would I ever work as a consulting engineer.

Of course my first job is a consulting engineer, and I deal with microwaves a

Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

[James Howard]

Well, you did say in the commercials that you wouldn’t be selling those reverse 
mortgages if you didn’t “honestly believe” they were the right thing to do.  
Are you saying you don’t have the same conviction about diapers?

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 1:02 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

As long as it is not diapers.

From: Mathew Howard
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 11:47 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

I'm pretty sure I saw you selling reverse mortgages on TV the other day...

On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 10:33 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> 
wrote:
Yeah, and I have been infringing on that particular piece of IP so long that he 
has lost his right to enforce it I think...

From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 9:31 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!


Nice profile pic, Magnum P.I.
On 6/12/2020 11:29 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
I honestly don’t know how you follow me other than to read one of the answers I 
have posted and follow that.
Things like this:
https://www.quora.com/Do-I-need-to-account-for-the-phase-difference-between-dipole-antennas-in-an-array-by-adding-a-phasing-cable

I have 1510 answers on there so far.  Should hit 2000 by the end of the year.

From: Robert
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 9:17 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

What's your quora?  I'd follow that...
On 6/12/20 7:29 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
But I have 138 quora followers.  I care more about that number.

From: ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 8:15 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

Done.
I had to see how many subs I had.  77

From: Gino A. Villarini
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 5:57 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

Friends & Colleagues, Help me reach 100 subs on my Youtube channel so I can 
have a url!

Gigabits & Gigahertz is a vlog with industry content for all to enjoy.

I hope it brings value to you all. Comments and suggestions welcomed!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-qjRCvu2lNt89xaXppPIEQ/


Gino Villarini
Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
[aeronet-logo]

[inc500]

[fb-logo]

[insta-logo]

[in-logo]

[tw-logo]

[yt-logo]

[https://mcusercontent.com/491678685aaddc31e08616413/images/663fa299-7512-404f-ab00-6f8d11d8a417.png]
www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 
Guaynabo, PR 00968

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Re: [AFMUG] OT sprint

[Tim Reichhart]

ok lets be clear here is it sprint wireless or sprint that centurylink bought? 
there is 2 different companies here.



 

-Original Message-
From: "James Howard" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Date: 06/12/20 12:14
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT sprint


I think the Sprint guy sounds more like the Crocs…..

 


From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 11:10 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT sprint


 


Said Pig to Rat. 


 


From: Ken Hohhof


Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 10:02 AM


To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'


Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT sprint


 


Chuck:  What company do you work for?

Locate Guy:  Sprint.

Chuck (now sprinting in circles):  OK, what company do you work for?

 

Actually, he's going to need a magenta wifebeater since he'll be working for 
"New T-Mobile".

 

 


From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 10:47 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT sprint


 

I love it when a plan comes together...   Thanks that kind of story makes my 
day...  Feifdoms are a pet peave..

On 6/12/20 8:12 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:



Working on engineering a new fiber line.  Called for locates.  Normally they 
will not do the locates unless you are actually digging.  If just engineering 
they will not even take the dig ticket.


So, I always do some form of geo tech bore hole soil sampling etc to get the 
paint down on the ROW without argument.  If I forget to drill the test 
holes well I am getting older and more forgetful.


 


Sprint showed up and said:


They have a 2' (both sides, above and below) exclusive zone that we cannot come 
near nationwide.  4' wide exclusion zone.


(I was in a state highway ROW).  Told the sprint guy that I doubted they have 
an exclusive ROW in a public highway ROW. 


 


He went ballistic.  Said I had messed with the wrong people etc.  Got his boss 
on the phone.  I told the boss that I simply did not believe it.  I might be 
proven wrong but generally road ROWs are pretty much the domain of the 
political entity etc.  He said he had fought this battle many times and always 
won.  They have an exclusive easement everywhere in the USA and that their 
fiber is much more important than everyone else.  I said that one thing was 
certain, one of would be proven wrong.  He hung up.


 


I called UDOT.  They said, no, nothing special about Sprint.  I gave them the 
contact info for the locator's boss.  UDOT called him.  He told UDOT that they 
did indeed have an exclusive easement and the would sue the state of Utah if it 
is not honored.  UDOT researched it.  Nope.  Nothing more than a permit.  Just 
like what Chuck has.  Nothing special about Sprint.  They said that they were 
going to straighten this out with the AGs office. 


 


Then I discover that UDOT has very recently given this highway to the county. 


County engineer says Sprint has nothing, they are in trespass everywhere they 
are in the county. 


 


So, out plowing cable and the Sprint locator showed up.  Boxer shorts, flip 
flops, wife beater.  Starts running his mouth to my crew about Chuck pissed off 
the wrong guys and that he is going to be tied up in federal court for the next 
10 years etc.  Supervisor threw him off the job site.  No hard hat, no orange 
vest, no hard soled shoes.  Supervisor called me and said to expect a call from 
Sprint.  I called his boss instead.  Told him that they had failed to mark 1/3 
of the ROW and that the guy needs to conform to UDOT safety standards to be out 
there working.  And that as far as suing me in federal courth, UDOT says I am 
good to go.  "So tell your guy to shut the F*** up and just do his job. "


 


This time sprint boss was meek and mild and offered to cooperate any way 
possible. 


I actually apologized for the harsh words, but was expecting the same attitude 
as before. 


 

 


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Re: [AFMUG] OT sprint

[chuck]

The pin flags say Sprint.  I think the dig ticket may have said Sprint/Nextel.  
The fiber is fiber.

From: Tim Reichhart 
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 12:37 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT sprint

ok lets be clear here is it sprint wireless or sprint that centurylink bought? 
there is 2 different companies here.







--
  -Original Message-
  From: "James Howard" 
  To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
  Date: 06/12/20 12:14
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT sprint

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[AFMUG] OT when men were men and high speed was T1

[chuck]

A former co-worker stopped by with this.  A product I created 20 years ago.
Allowed you to put 3 T1 repeaters in a small ped.-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Adam Moffett]

If we need to call "lent" on discussion a well established fact like the 
holocaust then we're doomed.  Up is down, black is white, all fact and 
truth are irrelevant.


On 6/12/2020 2:07 PM, James Howard wrote:


But the skeptic might argue that the fact that you knew someone with a 
tattoo on his arm actually proves that it didn’t happen since 
OBVIOUSLY he wasn’t killed……  It just proves that they put people in 
prison camps and/or tattooed them.


This topic definitely has the potential for an early Lent…..

*From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
*Sent:* Friday, June 12, 2020 12:34 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

I was not alive during the Holocaust, nor have I ever been to Germany.

So I only know what I have experienced.

But the overwhelming quantity of media on the subject seems to 
indicate something happened


Oh, and the fact I actually knew someone with a tattoo on their arm... 
yeah, there’s that...


*From:*Adam Moffett

*Sent:*Friday, June 12, 2020 11:21 AM

*To:*af@af.afmug.com 

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

If you mean because of the Internet then I agree with that.  I asked 
an astronomy question on Quora and an actual astronomer answered it.  
That kind of direct access to information and expertise is amazing.  
On the other hand, since anyone can put anything out there a lot of 
fringe people are finding and supporting each other.


Holocaust deniers sure, but also every other brand of idiocy like 
homeopathy, magic rocks, antivax, neonazi's, etc.


On 6/12/2020 1:15 PM, Robert wrote:

I worked on the Stanford campus in the 70's..  saw and talked to
Shockley on a semi-daily basis.  Had no idea of the idiocy that he
supported.  Just seemed like a very aloof guy but liked to
chat...  Yeah we are in an age where these people are getting to
say what they used to have to hide...

On 6/12/20 9:11 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Professors are a mixed lot.  I took a course from this guy,
who apparently is still teaching although he would be well
into his 80’s now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Butz

I had no idea at the time he was a Holocaust denier. I’ve
never understood those people – my dad was in the Army in WWII
and participated in liberating some concentration camps.  I
mean, it’s a freakin’ fact, how can you deny facts.  Anyway,
my recollection of Professor Butz was I had a friend who kept
writing the name as “Prof. Butts” on his assignments and
tests.  We kept telling him it was spelled Butz but he thought
we were joking. Brings new meaning to the expression “butt of
a joke”.

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Robert
*Sent:* Friday, June 12, 2020 10:54 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

Were you in the same class as I was?   We had the same
professor, I think..  Drove me off the deep end...  Specially
when he blocked the equations with his body as he erased!!  
But we had this one other assoc-prof..   Name of Jim Clark.. 
He was wild, specially when he went into game theory and
betting systems..  Yep that Clark. Worked for him 20 years
later...

On 6/12/20 8:44 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

Oh man. I was doing great in calculus until we got to
differential equations. I blame the professor. Harry
Blackman. What a terrible professor! He lectured with his
back to the class and wrote on the blackboard; chalk in
his outstretched right hand, and eraser in his
outstretched left hand. He would write equations as he
droned, and erased the information in the space between
his hands. What a horrible experience that was!

bp



On 6/12/2020 8:22 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

See, I only cared about the digital stuff.   Though
power, motors, etc. were pretty cool as well.   Grades
were good in those classes.

Senior project the advisor dinged me for building a
system for a plant out of a microcontroller instead of
using a PLC like he suggested. But I want to do
Microcontrollers.   Yep, first job was building
industrial control systems with PLC’s.   I’m guessing
I was a completely cocky bastard as a 21 year old.
Perhaps someday I’ll grow out of that.   Or not.

Heh, calculus.   My last all night study session
managed to turn a perfectly good B+ in differential
equations into a D.   Walked in to that exam and drew
a complete blank. Should have just

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Dev]

What kind of AP’s and how far apart to get decent coverage? I assume a captive 
portal? Mesh topology? We’re looking at Xirrus and/or Cambium e700, anyone got 
experience with either (or other suggestion)?

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 2:48 PM, Matt Hoppes  
> wrote:
> 
> Why are you doing fiber?
> 
> We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over the 
> Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
> 
> It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to the 
> sectors that cover several RV campers.
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's part of 
>> why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it would be nice to 
>> have the option to plug in a cable. 
>> 
>> I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV power 
>> ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/. 
>>  
>> Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might give me a 
>> place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two keystone jacks in 
>> it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach are that each RV gets their 
>> own WiFi instead of sharing it with everybody around them, and if there was 
>> ever a law enforcement issue we could track the usage to a particular site 
>> rather than just "somewhere in the park". 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>>> As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections and 
>>> doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   Don't even 
>>> carry and ethernet cable... 
>>> 
>>> On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote: 
 If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site? 
 
 I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post next to 
 their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be able to plug 
 Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to do so.  And if they 
 don't then they have their own private WiFi right outside their RV. 
 
 of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this together, but 
 I'm betting someone must have made a product for this already. 
 
 
 
>>> 
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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Steve Jones]

a campground campsite is a rented domicile. you cannot make alterations to
the property as with any rental. nothing can prohibit the use of an
attached receiver (transmitter, yes) but is can disallow the use of even a
tripod that isnt attached. It is the same as the way they can disallow a
visible firearm, but they cannot restrict the possession of a firearm
within the main housing unit.

On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 1:49 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> If we need to call "lent" on discussion a well established fact like the
> holocaust then we're doomed.  Up is down, black is white, all fact and
> truth are irrelevant.
> On 6/12/2020 2:07 PM, James Howard wrote:
>
> But the skeptic might argue that the fact that you knew someone with a
> tattoo on his arm actually proves that it didn’t happen since OBVIOUSLY he
> wasn’t killed……  It just proves that they put people in prison camps and/or
> tattooed them.
>
>
>
>
>
> This topic definitely has the potential for an early Lent…..
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Friday, June 12, 2020 12:34 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>
>
>
> I was not alive during the Holocaust, nor have I ever been to Germany.
>
> So I only know what I have experienced.
>
>
>
> But the overwhelming quantity of media on the subject seems to indicate
> something happened
>
> Oh, and the fact I actually knew someone with a tattoo on their arm...
> yeah, there’s that...
>
>
>
> *From:* Adam Moffett
>
> *Sent:* Friday, June 12, 2020 11:21 AM
>
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>
>
>
> If you mean because of the Internet then I agree with that.  I asked an
> astronomy question on Quora and an actual astronomer answered it.  That
> kind of direct access to information and expertise is amazing.  On the
> other hand, since anyone can put anything out there a lot of fringe people
> are finding and supporting each other.
>
> Holocaust deniers sure, but also every other brand of idiocy like
> homeopathy, magic rocks, antivax, neonazi's, etc.
>
>
>
> On 6/12/2020 1:15 PM, Robert wrote:
>
> I worked on the Stanford campus in the 70's..  saw and talked to Shockley
> on a semi-daily basis.  Had no idea of the idiocy that he supported.  Just
> seemed like a very aloof guy but liked to chat...  Yeah we are in an age
> where these people are getting to say what they used to have to hide...
>
> On 6/12/20 9:11 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> Professors are a mixed lot.  I took a course from this guy, who apparently
> is still teaching although he would be well into his 80’s now.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Butz
>
>
>
> I had no idea at the time he was a Holocaust denier.  I’ve never
> understood those people – my dad was in the Army in WWII and participated
> in liberating some concentration camps.  I mean, it’s a freakin’ fact, how
> can you deny facts.  Anyway, my recollection of Professor Butz was I had a
> friend who kept writing the name as “Prof. Butts” on his assignments and
> tests.  We kept telling him it was spelled Butz but he thought we were
> joking.  Brings new meaning to the expression “butt of a joke”.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com  *On
> Behalf Of *Robert
> *Sent:* Friday, June 12, 2020 10:54 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>
>
>
> Were you in the same class as I was?   We had the same professor, I
> think..  Drove me off the deep end...  Specially when he blocked the
> equations with his body as he erased!!   But we had this one other
> assoc-prof..   Name of Jim Clark..  He was wild, specially when he went
> into game theory and betting systems..  Yep that Clark.   Worked for him 20
> years later...
>
> On 6/12/20 8:44 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
> Oh man. I was doing great in calculus until we got to differential
> equations. I blame the professor. Harry Blackman. What a terrible
> professor! He lectured with his back to the class and wrote on the
> blackboard; chalk in his outstretched right hand, and eraser in his
> outstretched left hand. He would write equations as he droned, and erased
> the information in the space between his hands. What a horrible experience
> that was!
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 6/12/2020 8:22 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
>
> See, I only cared about the digital stuff.   Though power, motors, etc.
> were pretty cool as well.   Grades were good in those classes.
>
>
>
> Senior project the advisor dinged me for building a system for a plant out
> of a microcontroller instead of using a PLC like he suggested.   But I want
> to do Microcontrollers.   Yep, first job was building industrial control
> systems with PLC’s.   I’m guessing I was a completely cocky bastard as a 21
> year old.   Perhaps someday I’ll grow out of that.   Or not.
>
>
>
> Heh, calculus.   My last all night study session managed to turn a
> perfectly good B+ in differential equations into a D.   W

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[chuck]

I agree, certain things seem worth of being deemed fact, by definition, by 
acclimation, by history, by simple agreement amongst honest, logical, civil 
peoples.
Not that newer facts can always come along and change thinking, but those are 
more in the realm of the best covid treatments or whether or not eggs will kill 
you.  

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 12:48 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

If we need to call "lent" on discussion a well established fact like the 
holocaust then we're doomed.  Up is down, black is white, all fact and truth 
are irrelevant.


On 6/12/2020 2:07 PM, James Howard wrote:

  But the skeptic might argue that the fact that you knew someone with a tattoo 
on his arm actually proves that it didn’t happen since OBVIOUSLY he wasn’t 
killed……  It just proves that they put people in prison camps and/or tattooed 
them.

   

   

  This topic definitely has the potential for an early Lent…..

   

   

  From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
  Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 12:34 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

   

  I was not alive during the Holocaust, nor have I ever been to Germany.  

  So I only know what I have experienced.

   

  But the overwhelming quantity of media on the subject seems to indicate 
something happened

  Oh, and the fact I actually knew someone with a tattoo on their arm... yeah, 
there’s that...

   

  From: Adam Moffett 

  Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 11:21 AM

  To: af@af.afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

   

  If you mean because of the Internet then I agree with that.  I asked an 
astronomy question on Quora and an actual astronomer answered it.  That kind of 
direct access to information and expertise is amazing.  On the other hand, 
since anyone can put anything out there a lot of fringe people are finding and 
supporting each other.  

  Holocaust deniers sure, but also every other brand of idiocy like homeopathy, 
magic rocks, antivax, neonazi's, etc. 

   

  On 6/12/2020 1:15 PM, Robert wrote:

I worked on the Stanford campus in the 70's..  saw and talked to Shockley 
on a semi-daily basis.  Had no idea of the idiocy that he supported.  Just 
seemed like a very aloof guy but liked to chat...  Yeah we are in an age where 
these people are getting to say what they used to have to hide...

On 6/12/20 9:11 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

  Professors are a mixed lot.  I took a course from this guy, who 
apparently is still teaching although he would be well into his 80’s now.

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Butz

   

  I had no idea at the time he was a Holocaust denier.  I’ve never 
understood those people – my dad was in the Army in WWII and participated in 
liberating some concentration camps.  I mean, it’s a freakin’ fact, how can you 
deny facts.  Anyway, my recollection of Professor Butz was I had a friend who 
kept writing the name as “Prof. Butts” on his assignments and tests.  We kept 
telling him it was spelled Butz but he thought we were joking.  Brings new 
meaning to the expression “butt of a joke”.

   

   

  From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Robert
  Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 10:54 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

   

  Were you in the same class as I was?   We had the same professor, I 
think..  Drove me off the deep end...  Specially when he blocked the equations 
with his body as he erased!!   But we had this one other assoc-prof..   Name of 
Jim Clark..  He was wild, specially when he went into game theory and betting 
systems..  Yep that Clark.   Worked for him 20 years later...

  On 6/12/20 8:44 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

Oh man. I was doing great in calculus until we got to differential 
equations. I blame the professor. Harry Blackman. What a terrible professor! He 
lectured with his back to the class and wrote on the blackboard; chalk in his 
outstretched right hand, and eraser in his outstretched left hand. He would 
write equations as he droned, and erased the information in the space between 
his hands. What a horrible experience that was!

 

bp On 6/12/2020 8:22 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

  See, I only cared about the digital stuff.   Though power, motors, 
etc. were pretty cool as well.   Grades were good in those classes.

   

  Senior project the advisor dinged me for building a system for a 
plant out of a microcontroller instead of using a PLC like he suggested.   But 
I want to do Microcontrollers.   Yep, first job was building industrial control 
systems with PLC’s.   I’m guessing I was a completely cocky bastard as a 21 
year old.   Perhaps someday I’ll grow out of that.   Or not.

   

  Heh, calculus.   My last all night study session managed to turn a 
perfectly good B+ in d

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Ken Hohhof]

It’s probably like the moon landing deniers.  They can confront Buzz Aldrin, 
who can punch them in the nose.  But soon everyone who was actually there will 
be dead, and people can rewrite history to fit their biases and conspiracy 
theories.

 

Most of the people like my dad who fought in World War II wanted to move on 
with life and didn’t talk much about the war.  But his army unit (89th infantry 
division) put together a book with history and photos, including emaciated 
survivors and dead bodies stacked like firewood at sub-camps of Buchenwald.  
You have never seen anything like it in your life, and you don’t want to.  
Obviously I wasn’t there, but my dad was, and anybody who theorizes that it was 
just propaganda makes me want to do a Buzz Aldrin on them.

 

Like the Marx Brothers quote, who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHxGUe1cjzM

 

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of James Howard
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 1:08 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

 

But the skeptic might argue that the fact that you knew someone with a tattoo 
on his arm actually proves that it didn’t happen since OBVIOUSLY he wasn’t 
killed……  It just proves that they put people in prison camps and/or tattooed 
them.

 

 

This topic definitely has the potential for an early Lent…..

 

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com 
 
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 12:34 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

 

I was not alive during the Holocaust, nor have I ever been to Germany.  

So I only know what I have experienced.

 

But the overwhelming quantity of media on the subject seems to indicate 
something happened

Oh, and the fact I actually knew someone with a tattoo on their arm... yeah, 
there’s that...

 

From: Adam Moffett 

Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 11:21 AM

To: af@af.afmug.com   

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

 

If you mean because of the Internet then I agree with that.  I asked an 
astronomy question on Quora and an actual astronomer answered it.  That kind of 
direct access to information and expertise is amazing.  On the other hand, 
since anyone can put anything out there a lot of fringe people are finding and 
supporting each other.  

Holocaust deniers sure, but also every other brand of idiocy like homeopathy, 
magic rocks, antivax, neonazi's, etc. 

 

On 6/12/2020 1:15 PM, Robert wrote:

I worked on the Stanford campus in the 70's..  saw and talked to Shockley on a 
semi-daily basis.  Had no idea of the idiocy that he supported.  Just seemed 
like a very aloof guy but liked to chat...  Yeah we are in an age where these 
people are getting to say what they used to have to hide...

On 6/12/20 9:11 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Professors are a mixed lot.  I took a course from this guy, who apparently is 
still teaching although he would be well into his 80’s now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Butz

 

I had no idea at the time he was a Holocaust denier.  I’ve never understood 
those people – my dad was in the Army in WWII and participated in liberating 
some concentration camps.  I mean, it’s a freakin’ fact, how can you deny 
facts.  Anyway, my recollection of Professor Butz was I had a friend who kept 
writing the name as “Prof. Butts” on his assignments and tests.  We kept 
telling him it was spelled Butz but he thought we were joking.  Brings new 
meaning to the expression “butt of a joke”.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 10:54 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

 

Were you in the same class as I was?   We had the same professor, I think..  
Drove me off the deep end...  Specially when he blocked the equations with his 
body as he erased!!   But we had this one other assoc-prof..   Name of Jim 
Clark..  He was wild, specially when he went into game theory and betting 
systems..  Yep that Clark.   Worked for him 20 years later...

On 6/12/20 8:44 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

Oh man. I was doing great in calculus until we got to differential equations. I 
blame the professor. Harry Blackman. What a terrible professor! He lectured 
with his back to the class and wrote on the blackboard; chalk in his 
outstretched right hand, and eraser in his outstretched left hand. He would 
write equations as he droned, and erased the information in the space between 
his hands. What a horrible experience that was!

 

bp

 

On 6/12/2020 8:22 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

See, I only cared about the digital stuff.   Though power, motors, etc. were 
pretty cool as well.   Grades were good in those classes.

 

Senior project the advisor dinged me for building a system for a plant out of a 
microcontroller instead of using a PLC like he suggested.   But I want to do 
Microcon

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[chuck]

We watched a movie called “Night and Fog” in high school.  I wish I hadn’t.  I 
will never get those images of folks being slid into the cookers out of my 
mind.  
It was a mix of nazi footage and liberators footage.  Sounds like your 89th 
book but the film version.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 12:57 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

It’s probably like the moon landing deniers.  They can confront Buzz Aldrin, 
who can punch them in the nose.  But soon everyone who was actually there will 
be dead, and people can rewrite history to fit their biases and conspiracy 
theories.

 

Most of the people like my dad who fought in World War II wanted to move on 
with life and didn’t talk much about the war.  But his army unit (89th infantry 
division) put together a book with history and photos, including emaciated 
survivors and dead bodies stacked like firewood at sub-camps of Buchenwald.  
You have never seen anything like it in your life, and you don’t want to.  
Obviously I wasn’t there, but my dad was, and anybody who theorizes that it was 
just propaganda makes me want to do a Buzz Aldrin on them.

 

Like the Marx Brothers quote, who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHxGUe1cjzM

 

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of James Howard
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 1:08 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

 

But the skeptic might argue that the fact that you knew someone with a tattoo 
on his arm actually proves that it didn’t happen since OBVIOUSLY he wasn’t 
killed……  It just proves that they put people in prison camps and/or tattooed 
them.

 

 

This topic definitely has the potential for an early Lent…..

 

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 12:34 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

 

I was not alive during the Holocaust, nor have I ever been to Germany.  

So I only know what I have experienced.

 

But the overwhelming quantity of media on the subject seems to indicate 
something happened

Oh, and the fact I actually knew someone with a tattoo on their arm... yeah, 
there’s that...

 

From: Adam Moffett 

Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 11:21 AM

To: af@af.afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

 

If you mean because of the Internet then I agree with that.  I asked an 
astronomy question on Quora and an actual astronomer answered it.  That kind of 
direct access to information and expertise is amazing.  On the other hand, 
since anyone can put anything out there a lot of fringe people are finding and 
supporting each other.  

Holocaust deniers sure, but also every other brand of idiocy like homeopathy, 
magic rocks, antivax, neonazi's, etc. 

 

On 6/12/2020 1:15 PM, Robert wrote:

  I worked on the Stanford campus in the 70's..  saw and talked to Shockley on 
a semi-daily basis.  Had no idea of the idiocy that he supported.  Just seemed 
like a very aloof guy but liked to chat...  Yeah we are in an age where these 
people are getting to say what they used to have to hide...

  On 6/12/20 9:11 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Professors are a mixed lot.  I took a course from this guy, who apparently 
is still teaching although he would be well into his 80’s now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Butz

 

I had no idea at the time he was a Holocaust denier.  I’ve never understood 
those people – my dad was in the Army in WWII and participated in liberating 
some concentration camps.  I mean, it’s a freakin’ fact, how can you deny 
facts.  Anyway, my recollection of Professor Butz was I had a friend who kept 
writing the name as “Prof. Butts” on his assignments and tests.  We kept 
telling him it was spelled Butz but he thought we were joking.  Brings new 
meaning to the expression “butt of a joke”.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 10:54 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

 

Were you in the same class as I was?   We had the same professor, I think.. 
 Drove me off the deep end...  Specially when he blocked the equations with his 
body as he erased!!   But we had this one other assoc-prof..   Name of Jim 
Clark..  He was wild, specially when he went into game theory and betting 
systems..  Yep that Clark.   Worked for him 20 years later...

On 6/12/20 8:44 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

  Oh man. I was doing great in calculus until we got to differential 
equations. I blame the professor. Harry Blackman. What a terrible professor! He 
lectured with his back to the class and wrote on the blackboard; chalk in his 
outstretched right hand, and eraser in his outstretched left hand. He would 
write equations as he droned, and erased the information in the space between 
his hands. What a horrible experience that was!

  

Re: [AFMUG] Antenna gain vs transmit power

[Brian Webster]

Yes the power budget stays the same and balanced it the TX power can also be 
increased on both ends. The one factor to consider however, is that as the gain 
of an antenna increase, typically the beam width decreases. So that may 
actually work in your favor because you are limiting the areas for which you 
can receive noise. Lower noise will increase your SNR and performance even if 
the signal levels stay the same. This factor is one of the reasons the RF 
elements horns show such an increase in performance for operators. It’s not any 
increase in power or antenna gain (in fact in many cases antenna gain is lower) 
it’s the rejection of unwanted signals because their antenna pattern is so 
tight and the front to back ratio is so good. Most links using their antennas 
tend to increase the SNR performance which in the end is all that matters.

 

Thank you,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Daniel White
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 1:54 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Antenna gain vs transmit power

 

You also assuming the CPE is in the main lobe (and that lobe shape isn't 
different between the sectors).

Antenna Gain > TX Power Gain.  Not only because it is bi-directional but there 
are plenty of benefits to increasing antenna gain and not TX power.

But as Adam said... a dB is a dB

 


 photograph 

 


Daniel White
Co-Founder & Managing Director of Operations


phone: +1 (702) 470-2770
direct: +1 (702) 470-2766




Adam Moffett wrote on 6/12/20 11:22:



A db is a db, but an antenna works in both directions and tx power only works 
in the tx direction.

So they'll perform the same in one direction only.

 

On 6/12/2020 1:20 PM, Josh wrote:

If you have two ptmp antennas with the same sector width and same model ap 
attached to them, and one antenna is 4 db less gain then the other. If 
additional 4db of transmit power is applied to the lower gain antenna, would 
the two sectors perform roughly the same? Is one db of radio transmit power 
truly equivalent 1 db of antenna gain, or is there more to it?

 

Josh Heide
Operations Manager
209-838-1221 |   velociter.net
  j...@velociter.net
1525 2nd Street, Escalon, CA 95320

 









 

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Re: [AFMUG] OT when men were men and high speed was T1

[Robert]

Get out of my Closet!  ( tech version of off my lawn )...

On 6/12/20 11:40 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
A former co-worker stopped by with this.  A product I created 20 years 
ago.

Allowed you to put 3 T1 repeaters in a small ped.



-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[James Howard]

But you mentioned homeopathy………

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 1:49 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber


If we need to call "lent" on discussion a well established fact like the 
holocaust then we're doomed.  Up is down, black is white, all fact and truth 
are irrelevant.
On 6/12/2020 2:07 PM, James Howard wrote:
But the skeptic might argue that the fact that you knew someone with a tattoo 
on his arm actually proves that it didn’t happen since OBVIOUSLY he wasn’t 
killed……  It just proves that they put people in prison camps and/or tattooed 
them.


This topic definitely has the potential for an early Lent…..


From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of 
ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 12:34 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

I was not alive during the Holocaust, nor have I ever been to Germany.
So I only know what I have experienced.

But the overwhelming quantity of media on the subject seems to indicate 
something happened
Oh, and the fact I actually knew someone with a tattoo on their arm... yeah, 
there’s that...

From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 11:21 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber


If you mean because of the Internet then I agree with that.  I asked an 
astronomy question on Quora and an actual astronomer answered it.  That kind of 
direct access to information and expertise is amazing.  On the other hand, 
since anyone can put anything out there a lot of fringe people are finding and 
supporting each other.

Holocaust deniers sure, but also every other brand of idiocy like homeopathy, 
magic rocks, antivax, neonazi's, etc.


On 6/12/2020 1:15 PM, Robert wrote:
I worked on the Stanford campus in the 70's..  saw and talked to Shockley on a 
semi-daily basis.  Had no idea of the idiocy that he supported.  Just seemed 
like a very aloof guy but liked to chat...  Yeah we are in an age where these 
people are getting to say what they used to have to hide...
On 6/12/20 9:11 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Professors are a mixed lot.  I took a course from this guy, who apparently is 
still teaching although he would be well into his 80’s now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Butz

I had no idea at the time he was a Holocaust denier.  I’ve never understood 
those people – my dad was in the Army in WWII and participated in liberating 
some concentration camps.  I mean, it’s a freakin’ fact, how can you deny 
facts.  Anyway, my recollection of Professor Butz was I had a friend who kept 
writing the name as “Prof. Butts” on his assignments and tests.  We kept 
telling him it was spelled Butz but he thought we were joking.  Brings new 
meaning to the expression “butt of a joke”.


From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 10:54 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

Were you in the same class as I was?   We had the same professor, I think..  
Drove me off the deep end...  Specially when he blocked the equations with his 
body as he erased!!   But we had this one other assoc-prof..   Name of Jim 
Clark..  He was wild, specially when he went into game theory and betting 
systems..  Yep that Clark.   Worked for him 20 years later...
On 6/12/20 8:44 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

Oh man. I was doing great in calculus until we got to differential equations. I 
blame the professor. Harry Blackman. What a terrible professor! He lectured 
with his back to the class and wrote on the blackboard; chalk in his 
outstretched right hand, and eraser in his outstretched left hand. He would 
write equations as he droned, and erased the information in the space between 
his hands. What a horrible experience that was!



bp




On 6/12/2020 8:22 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
See, I only cared about the digital stuff.   Though power, motors, etc. were 
pretty cool as well.   Grades were good in those classes.

Senior project the advisor dinged me for building a system for a plant out of a 
microcontroller instead of using a PLC like he suggested.   But I want to do 
Microcontrollers.   Yep, first job was building industrial control systems with 
PLC’s.   I’m guessing I was a completely cocky bastard as a 21 year old.   
Perhaps someday I’ll grow out of that.   Or not.

Heh, calculus.   My last all night study session managed to turn a perfectly 
good B+ in differential equations into a D.   Walked in to that exam and drew a 
complete blank.  Should have just slept, probably would have aced it.

Mark

On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:46 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Those were the ONLY classes I cared about.  Got A’s in all things antenna and 
RF.
Got A’s in most of the linear stuff.

Got the B’s in the digital crap that doesn’t matter to anyone  (those guys 
are called bit f

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Larry Smith]

Lived in Germany for three years late 60's.
My landlord and his wife both had tatoo's from
prison camps (they were German but did not agree
with Hitler).  Some of the stories they told would
give me chills.

Was back in Germany early 91 to late 94, and
again both my landlord and his wife had prison
camp tatoo's.  He would not talk much about it
but she said "You got in line and if that line cooked,
then you cooked but if that line dug graves then you
dug graves or later someone would be digging yours!"

Been to Auschwitz and a couple of other camps.
Didn't sleep for several days after.

Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it...

-- 
Larry Smith
lesm...@ecsis.net

On Fri June 12 2020 14:03, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> We watched a movie called “Night and Fog” in high school.  I wish I hadn’t.
>  I will never get those images of folks being slid into the cookers out of
> my mind. It was a mix of nazi footage and liberators footage.  Sounds like
> your 89th book but the film version.
>
> From: Ken Hohhof
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 12:57 PM
> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>
> It’s probably like the moon landing deniers.  They can confront Buzz
> Aldrin, who can punch them in the nose.  But soon everyone who was actually
> there will be dead, and people can rewrite history to fit their biases and
> conspiracy theories.
>
>
>
> Most of the people like my dad who fought in World War II wanted to move on
> with life and didn’t talk much about the war.  But his army unit (89th
> infantry division) put together a book with history and photos, including
> emaciated survivors and dead bodies stacked like firewood at sub-camps of
> Buchenwald.  You have never seen anything like it in your life, and you
> don’t want to.  Obviously I wasn’t there, but my dad was, and anybody who
> theorizes that it was just propaganda makes me want to do a Buzz Aldrin on
> them.
>
>
>
> Like the Marx Brothers quote, who are you going to believe, me or your own
> eyes?
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHxGUe1cjzM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: AF  On Behalf Of James Howard
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 1:08 PM
> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>
>
>
> But the skeptic might argue that the fact that you knew someone with a
> tattoo on his arm actually proves that it didn’t happen since OBVIOUSLY he
> wasn’t killed……  It just proves that they put people in prison camps and/or
> tattooed them.
>
>
>
>
>
> This topic definitely has the potential for an early Lent…..
>
>
>
>
>
> From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 12:34 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>
>
>
> I was not alive during the Holocaust, nor have I ever been to Germany.
>
> So I only know what I have experienced.
>
>
>
> But the overwhelming quantity of media on the subject seems to indicate
> something happened
>
> Oh, and the fact I actually knew someone with a tattoo on their arm...
> yeah, there’s that...
>
>
>
> From: Adam Moffett
>
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 11:21 AM
>
> To: af@af.afmug.com
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>
>
>
> If you mean because of the Internet then I agree with that.  I asked an
> astronomy question on Quora and an actual astronomer answered it.  That
> kind of direct access to information and expertise is amazing.  On the
> other hand, since anyone can put anything out there a lot of fringe people
> are finding and supporting each other.
>
> Holocaust deniers sure, but also every other brand of idiocy like
> homeopathy, magic rocks, antivax, neonazi's, etc.
>
>
>
> On 6/12/2020 1:15 PM, Robert wrote:
>
>   I worked on the Stanford campus in the 70's..  saw and talked to Shockley
> on a semi-daily basis.  Had no idea of the idiocy that he supported.  Just
> seemed like a very aloof guy but liked to chat...  Yeah we are in an age
> where these people are getting to say what they used to have to hide...
>
>   On 6/12/20 9:11 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> Professors are a mixed lot.  I took a course from this guy, who
> apparently is still teaching although he would be well into his 80’s now.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Butz
>
>
>
> I had no idea at the time he was a Holocaust denier.  I’ve never
> understood those people – my dad was in the Army in WWII and participated
> in liberating some concentration camps.  I mean, it’s a freakin’ fact, how
> can you deny facts.  Anyway, my recollection of Professor Butz was I had a
> friend who kept writing the name as “Prof. Butts” on his assignments and
> tests.  We kept telling him it was spelled Butz but he thought we were
> joking.  Brings new meaning to the expression “butt of a joke”.
>
>
>
>
>
> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Robert
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 10:54 AM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>
>
>
> 

[AFMUG] OT: How to skip ads on Youtube

[Bill Prince]

Here's a spiffy trick. If you add a period (.) after the .com in a 
youtube link, it will bypass all the ads embedded or prepended.



Example with ads:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tuo7PovqiIQ

Example without ads:

https://www.youtube.com./watch?v=Tuo7PovqiIQ

--

bp



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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[chuck]

Gay eye doctors are just fine with me.

From: James Howard 
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 2:28 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

But you mentioned homeopathy………   

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 1:49 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

 

If we need to call "lent" on discussion a well established fact like the 
holocaust then we're doomed.  Up is down, black is white, all fact and truth 
are irrelevant.

On 6/12/2020 2:07 PM, James Howard wrote:

  But the skeptic might argue that the fact that you knew someone with a tattoo 
on his arm actually proves that it didn’t happen since OBVIOUSLY he wasn’t 
killed……  It just proves that they put people in prison camps and/or tattooed 
them.

   

   

  This topic definitely has the potential for an early Lent…..

   

   

  From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
  Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 12:34 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

   

  I was not alive during the Holocaust, nor have I ever been to Germany.  

  So I only know what I have experienced.

   

  But the overwhelming quantity of media on the subject seems to indicate 
something happened

  Oh, and the fact I actually knew someone with a tattoo on their arm... yeah, 
there’s that...

   

  From: Adam Moffett 

  Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 11:21 AM

  To: af@af.afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

   

  If you mean because of the Internet then I agree with that.  I asked an 
astronomy question on Quora and an actual astronomer answered it.  That kind of 
direct access to information and expertise is amazing.  On the other hand, 
since anyone can put anything out there a lot of fringe people are finding and 
supporting each other.  

  Holocaust deniers sure, but also every other brand of idiocy like homeopathy, 
magic rocks, antivax, neonazi's, etc. 

   

  On 6/12/2020 1:15 PM, Robert wrote:

I worked on the Stanford campus in the 70's..  saw and talked to Shockley 
on a semi-daily basis.  Had no idea of the idiocy that he supported.  Just 
seemed like a very aloof guy but liked to chat...  Yeah we are in an age where 
these people are getting to say what they used to have to hide...

On 6/12/20 9:11 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

  Professors are a mixed lot.  I took a course from this guy, who 
apparently is still teaching although he would be well into his 80’s now.

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Butz

   

  I had no idea at the time he was a Holocaust denier.  I’ve never 
understood those people – my dad was in the Army in WWII and participated in 
liberating some concentration camps.  I mean, it’s a freakin’ fact, how can you 
deny facts.  Anyway, my recollection of Professor Butz was I had a friend who 
kept writing the name as “Prof. Butts” on his assignments and tests.  We kept 
telling him it was spelled Butz but he thought we were joking.  Brings new 
meaning to the expression “butt of a joke”.

   

   

  From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Robert
  Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 10:54 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

   

  Were you in the same class as I was?   We had the same professor, I 
think..  Drove me off the deep end...  Specially when he blocked the equations 
with his body as he erased!!   But we had this one other assoc-prof..   Name of 
Jim Clark..  He was wild, specially when he went into game theory and betting 
systems..  Yep that Clark.   Worked for him 20 years later...

  On 6/12/20 8:44 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

Oh man. I was doing great in calculus until we got to differential 
equations. I blame the professor. Harry Blackman. What a terrible professor! He 
lectured with his back to the class and wrote on the blackboard; chalk in his 
outstretched right hand, and eraser in his outstretched left hand. He would 
write equations as he droned, and erased the information in the space between 
his hands. What a horrible experience that was!

 

bp On 6/12/2020 8:22 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

  See, I only cared about the digital stuff.   Though power, motors, 
etc. were pretty cool as well.   Grades were good in those classes.

   

  Senior project the advisor dinged me for building a system for a 
plant out of a microcontroller instead of using a PLC like he suggested.   But 
I want to do Microcontrollers.   Yep, first job was building industrial control 
systems with PLC’s.   I’m guessing I was a completely cocky bastard as a 21 
year old.   Perhaps someday I’ll grow out of that.   Or not.

   

  Heh, calculus.   My last all night study session managed to turn a 
perfectly good B+ in differential equations into a D.   Walked in to that exam 
and drew a co

Re: [AFMUG] OT: How to skip ads on Youtube

[chuck]

We love you Bill.

-Original Message- 
From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 2:56 PM 
To: AFMUG 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: How to skip ads on Youtube 

Here's a spiffy trick. If you add a period (.) after the .com in a 
youtube link, it will bypass all the ads embedded or prepended.



Example with ads:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tuo7PovqiIQ

Example without ads:

https://www.youtube.com./watch?v=Tuo7PovqiIQ

--

bp



--
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: How to skip ads on Youtube

[Nate Burke]

I'm sure googlebot has now scanned this, and it's probably already 
'fixed' it


On 6/12/2020 4:12 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

We love you Bill.

-Original Message- From: Bill Prince Sent: Friday, June 12, 
2020 2:56 PM To: AFMUG Subject: [AFMUG] OT: How to skip ads on Youtube
Here's a spiffy trick. If you add a period (.) after the .com in a 
youtube link, it will bypass all the ads embedded or prepended.



Example with ads:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tuo7PovqiIQ

Example without ads:

https://www.youtube.com./watch?v=Tuo7PovqiIQ




--
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT sprint

[Mike Hammett]

There's also Sprint's long-haul division, that's neither wireless nor local 
service (Embarq). 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Tim Reichhart"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 1:37:27 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT sprint 


ok lets be clear here is it sprint wireless or sprint that centurylink bought? 
there is 2 different companies here. 







-Original Message- 
From: "James Howard" < ja...@litewire.net > 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < af@af.afmug.com > 
Date: 06/12/20 12:14 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT sprint 



I think the Sprint guy sounds more like the Crocs….. 



From: AF [mailto: af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com 
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 11:10 AM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT sprint 




Said Pig to Rat. 






From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 10:02 AM 

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT sprint 



Chuck: What company do you work for? 
Locate Guy: Sprint. 
Chuck (now sprinting in circles): OK, what company do you work for? 

Actually, he's going to need a magenta wifebeater since he'll be working for 
"New T-Mobile". 




From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Robert 
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 10:47 AM 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT sprint 

I love it when a plan comes together... Thanks that kind of story makes my 
day... Feifdoms are a pet peave.. 

On 6/12/20 8:12 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: 





Working on engineering a new fiber line. Called for locates. Normally they will 
not do the locates unless you are actually digging. If just engineering they 
will not even take the dig ticket. 

So, I always do some form of geo tech bore hole soil sampling etc to get the 
paint down on the ROW without argument. If I forget to drill the test holes 
well I am getting older and more forgetful. 



Sprint showed up and said: 

They have a 2' (both sides, above and below) exclusive zone that we cannot come 
near nationwide. 4' wide exclusion zone. 

(I was in a state highway ROW). Told the sprint guy that I doubted they have an 
exclusive ROW in a public highway ROW. 



He went ballistic. Said I had messed with the wrong people etc. Got his boss on 
the phone. I told the boss that I simply did not believe it. I might be proven 
wrong but generally road ROWs are pretty much the domain of the political 
entity etc. He said he had fought this battle many times and always won. They 
have an exclusive easement everywhere in the USA and that their fiber is much 
more important than everyone else. I said that one thing was certain, one of 
would be proven wrong. He hung up. 



I called UDOT. They said, no, nothing special about Sprint. I gave them the 
contact info for the locator's boss. UDOT called him. He told UDOT that they 
did indeed have an exclusive easement and the would sue the state of Utah if it 
is not honored. UDOT researched it. Nope. Nothing more than a permit. Just like 
what Chuck has. Nothing special about Sprint. They said that they were going to 
straighten this out with the AGs office. 



Then I discover that UDOT has very recently given this highway to the county. 

County engineer says Sprint has nothing, they are in trespass everywhere they 
are in the county. 



So, out plowing cable and the Sprint locator showed up. Boxer shorts, flip 
flops, wife beater. Starts running his mouth to my crew about Chuck pissed off 
the wrong guys and that he is going to be tied up in federal court for the next 
10 years etc. Supervisor threw him off the job site. No hard hat, no orange 
vest, no hard soled shoes. Supervisor called me and said to expect a call from 
Sprint. I called his boss instead. Told him that they had failed to mark 1/3 of 
the ROW and that the guy needs to conform to UDOT safety standards to be out 
there working. And that as far as suing me in federal courth, UDOT says I am 
good to go. "So tell your guy to shut the F*** up and just do his job. " 



This time sprint boss was meek and mild and offered to cooperate any way 
possible. 

I actually apologized for the harsh words, but was expecting the same attitude 
as before. 






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Total Control Panel 
Login 


To: ja...@litewire.net 

From: af-boun...@af.afmug.com   

You received this message because the domain afmug.com is on your allow list. 

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Re: [AFMUG] Aviat vs Bridgewave multi-carrier battle

[Mike Hammett]

For other people, not me. Can't even get 40 MHz here. 


If someone's going to license two links, they're going to use those licenses 
anyway, might as well let them use one radio and one carrier. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Daniel White"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 12:51:33 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Aviat vs Bridgewave multi-carrier battle 


Considering how little 11GHz spectrum you have available in Chicago land 
already... why would you want to encourage people to license even larger chucks 
of spectrum that they don't necessarily need? 

80MHz channels came when the FCC opted to allow the previous max channel size 
in 11GHz to double from 40MHz and to harmonize with 18GHz. 

You could argue why have a maximum channel size/emission designator at all. The 
answer is simple, to give as many people access to the band as possible and 
make frequency coordination possible. 


photograph  Daniel White 
Co-Founder & Managing Director of Operations 
phone: +1 (702) 470-2770 
direct: +1 (702) 470-2766 
Mike Hammett wrote on 6/11/20 08:37: 


Generally, starting from a better-educated position is wise.

What are the reasons for what we have now? Just that no one asked?

What are the reasons it should stay the same?



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





- Original Message -
From: "Tim Hardy"  To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
 Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 9:24:30 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Aviat vs Bridgewave multi-carrier battle

All I meant was that 112 MHz bandwidth is an “ETSI” configuration.  There’s 
nothing in Part 101 that allows bandwidths greater than 80 MHz, so that 
particular configuration is not allowed in the US.  Other ETSI configurations,  
28 MHz or 56 MHz bandwidth are legal here and can be licensed.

Rules changes like this are not an easy process and require significant 
backing.  If this is required, you need to get WISPA lobbying it before the FCC 
and it would help to get FWCC, NSMA, and CTIA as well.  From start to finish, 
it will likely take 2 or more years. 

On Jun 11, 2020, at 10:00 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

I suspect you have this backward.  It's not so much a rule against using an 
ETSI configuration, as the lack of that configuration in the FCC rules.  It 
would have to be added to Title 47, and manufacturers would have to (self) 
certify their equipment to the new rule.

What convincing arguments would you put forward for a rules change?  It seems 
more like I want to buy European equipment designed for ETSI rules and use it 
here.  Perhaps not the best political climate for such an appeal.  Do you want 
Freedom Fries with that?


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 8:10 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 
Aviat vs Bridgewave multi-carrier battle

Recommendations for changing that rule?



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





- Original Message -
From: "Tim Hardy"  To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
 Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 6:49:30 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Aviat vs Bridgewave multi-carrier battle


Daniel is correct, and the notion that one could coordinate and license an 80 
MHz channel pair with a 40 MHz pair separated by 60 MHz to somehow block out a 
120 MHz chunk to then operate a 112 MHz bandwidth ETSI configuration is 
patently false. Any vendor (integrator, radio OEM or coordinator) that is 
“pushing” this concept to licensees needs to cease. A potential FCC Enforcement 
action would be against the operator, not the vendor that may have promoted 
this illicit scheme, so buyer beware. 


Just to reiterate the primary concern - The maximum allowable bandwidth for any 
single transmit frequency in the 11 or 18 GHz bands in the US is 80 MHz. Any 
use of larger bandwidths would require at least two significant rule waiver 
requests with each FCC application. A recent review of FCC licensed records 
found no (zero) frequencies with bandwidths greater than 80 MHz, therefore, 
anyone using 112 MHz bandwidth (as discussed by at least one vendor in this 
thread) would be doing so at their own peril. 







On Jun 10, 2020, at 12:57 PM, Peter Kranz via AF < af@af.afmug.com > wrote: 



Yes you can always couple two discrete radios together with a coupler to 
achieve a 4+0, or 4 together for a 8+0 😊 
My comparison is for all in one units from Bridgewave and Aviat. 


Peter Kranz www.UnwiredLtd.com Desk: 510-868-1614 x100 
Mobile: 510-207- pkr...@unwiredltd.com From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > 
On Behalf Of Daniel White 
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2020 8:10 AM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Aviat vs Bridgewave multi-

Re: [AFMUG] Cloud Hosted Mikrotik

[Mike Hammett]

Well, they're great for applications designed for that environment. Ones that 
automatically spin up or shut down worker VMs as needed. Have an application 
that only runs from 12 AM to 4 AM to get it's work done, but there's a metric 
butt-load of work to do in that time? One orchestration VM, 100 worker VMs that 
turn on at midnight and shut off a few hours later. 




I may not have the details correct, but I'm just trying to throw the concept 
out there. 


Definitely a bad choice for constant workloads. 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Steven Kenney"  
To: "af"  
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 11:05:34 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cloud Hosted Mikrotik 



Consider the $160 month over 72 months = $11520. For almost the same cost, I 
can get a dell server virtualize it, run multiple servers on it, and if well 
maintained will last well past 72 months. 


Its just pure math. AWS isn't cost effective unless you are using it for a 
lower traffic app that you need to be global so you can have instances set up 
around the world. 


Scalability is a few more steps in Vmware or proxmox or whatever. I simply edit 
the resources, restart the vm, resize the disks bring it back up and its good 
to go. Literally a 10 min process. I've been sitting on 5+ physical servers 
that can run 60-100 linux servers for 6 years now and I still have plenty of 
room to grow. 


The only thing that sucks is the power and cooling costs. 


-- 
Steven Kenney 
Network Operations Manager 
WaveDirect Telecommunications 
http://www.wavedirect.net 
(519)737-WAVE (9283) 

- Original Message -

From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)"  
To: "af"  
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:06:47 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cloud Hosted Mikrotik 




I have similar gripes with AWS. If you've got an application which was written 
for AWS and takes advantage of their infrastructure in the right way it isn't 
that bad. For instance, I'm seriously looking at using their serverless/IoT 
infrastructure for something I'm working on here, and the pricing I'm seeing is 
far better than I could do with a reasonable infrastructure to support it. Plus 
it scales nicely. 

For more traditional systems, Normal AWS is pretty expensive. On the other 
hand, the newer Lightsail service is more oriented toward those apps... You can 
get a entry-level server for $3.50/month, or at the other end, $160/month you 
can get a 32GB RAM, 8 Core, 640GB storage server. 

On the other hand, I really like Vultr, which has similar pricing but it is a 
lot easier to deal with. 


On Thu, Jun 11, 2020 at 9:59 AM Dennis Burgess via AF < af@af.afmug.com > 
wrote: 





We tried to toss TowerCoveage.com to AWS. Their quote was around 45k a month! 
We are the exact opposite of what they want, high CPU and high IOPs. 




LTI-Full_175px
Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer 
MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium ePMP 
Certified 
Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition” 
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services 
Office : 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net 
Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com 



From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Steven Kenney 
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 8:42 AM 
To: af < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cloud Hosted Mikrotik 



Nobody make a product anymore and sells it. Its all subscription based. Its 
royally pissing me off too. I mean even in app games if you wanna remove ads 
you could just buy the game. NOW you need to pay $10 to remove ads for A MONTH 
or a period of time. 



Anyhoo.. as far as CHR - I've messed around with it on Amazon and it does work. 
Quite cool actually but I've found after crunching the numbers over the 
years its still way cheaper running your own hardware in your own NOC than in 
the cloud. I've had servers run for 9 years giving me way more ROI than any 
monthly subscription could. If properly maintained. Not to mention you are 
taking your own destiny into your own hands instead of placing them in a 3rd 
party's possession. 



Now if you don't have the staff or time to manage things then yeah you will 
need to pay someone else for their expertise in putting it all together. 



I think a hybrid solution is the overall best solution. The best of both 
worlds. 



-- 
Steven Kenney 
Network Operations Manager 
WaveDirect Telecommunications 
http://www.wavedirect.net 
(519)737-WAVE (9283) 





From: "Seth Mattinen" < se...@rollernet.us > 
To: "af" < af@af.afmug.com > 
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2020 12:53:22 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cloud Hosted Mikrotik 



On 6/10/20 6:01 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: 
> Oh, for sure. Virtualized routers are where the industry is going, whether 
> it's a VM running on your compute infrastructure or on your switch\router. 


No thanks, because here comes the annual subscriptions. Cisco al

Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP!

[Mike Hammett]

We're glad to have ya back! 


2,116 subscribers on YouTube. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Jay Weekley"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 9:05:51 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP! 

I subscribed to you both. I hadn't heard anything about the Brothers 
Wisp in a while. Glad content is still being produced. 

Jaime Solorza wrote: 
> I am 103! 
> 
> On Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 7:53 AM Gino A. Villarini  > wrote: 
> 
> Done 
> 
> *From: *AF  > on behalf of Mike Hammett 
> mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> 
> *Reply-To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  > 
> *Date: *Friday, June 12, 2020 at 8:31 AM 
> *To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  > 
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP! 
> 
> Mine too. ;-) Well, we alreadyh ave the custom URL, but 
> appreciate the subs anyway. :-) 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/c/TheBrothersWISP 
> 
> 
> 
> - 
> Mike Hammett 
> Intelligent Computing Solutions  
> Image removed by sender. Image 
> removed by sender. 
> Image 
> removed by sender. 
> Image 
> removed by sender.  
> Midwest Internet Exchange  
> Image removed by sender. Image 
> removed by sender. 
> Image 
> removed by sender.  
> The Brothers WISP  
> Image removed by sender. 
> Image removed by sender. 
> 
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> *From: *"Gino A. Villarini"  > 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  > 
> *Sent: *Friday, June 12, 2020 6:57:18 AM 
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] OT: I need your HELP! 
> 
> Friends & Colleagues, Help me reach 100 subs on my Youtube channel 
> so I can have a url! 
> 
> Gigabits & Gigahertz is a vlog with industry content for all to 
> enjoy. 
> 
> I hope it brings value to you all. Comments and suggestions welcomed! 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-qjRCvu2lNt89xaXppPIEQ/ 
> 
>  
> 
> *GinoVillarini ** 
> *Founder/President 
> @gvillarini 
> t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204 
> 
> Image removed by sender. aeronet-logo  
> 
> 
> 
> Image removed by sender. inc500  
> 
> 
> 
> Image removed by sender. fb-logo  
> 
> 
> 
> Image removed by sender. insta-logo 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> Image removed by sender. in-logo 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> Image removed by sender. tw-logo 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> Image removed by sender. yt-logo 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> Image removed by sender.  
> www.aeronetpr.com  | Metro Office Park 
> #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968 
> 
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list 
> AF@af.afmug.com  
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list 
> AF@af.afmug.com  
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
*Jay Weekley* 
*Cyber Broadband 
* 

-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. 
https://www.avg.com 


-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[James Howard]

And here all along I thought it was something to do with diluting things beyond 
any amount of actual continued presence………

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 4:12 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

Gay eye doctors are just fine with me.

From: James Howard
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 2:28 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

But you mentioned homeopathy………

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 1:49 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber


If we need to call "lent" on discussion a well established fact like the 
holocaust then we're doomed.  Up is down, black is white, all fact and truth 
are irrelevant.
On 6/12/2020 2:07 PM, James Howard wrote:
But the skeptic might argue that the fact that you knew someone with a tattoo 
on his arm actually proves that it didn’t happen since OBVIOUSLY he wasn’t 
killed……  It just proves that they put people in prison camps and/or tattooed 
them.


This topic definitely has the potential for an early Lent…..


From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of 
ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 12:34 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

I was not alive during the Holocaust, nor have I ever been to Germany.
So I only know what I have experienced.

But the overwhelming quantity of media on the subject seems to indicate 
something happened
Oh, and the fact I actually knew someone with a tattoo on their arm... yeah, 
there’s that...

From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 11:21 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber


If you mean because of the Internet then I agree with that.  I asked an 
astronomy question on Quora and an actual astronomer answered it.  That kind of 
direct access to information and expertise is amazing.  On the other hand, 
since anyone can put anything out there a lot of fringe people are finding and 
supporting each other.

Holocaust deniers sure, but also every other brand of idiocy like homeopathy, 
magic rocks, antivax, neonazi's, etc.


On 6/12/2020 1:15 PM, Robert wrote:
I worked on the Stanford campus in the 70's..  saw and talked to Shockley on a 
semi-daily basis.  Had no idea of the idiocy that he supported.  Just seemed 
like a very aloof guy but liked to chat...  Yeah we are in an age where these 
people are getting to say what they used to have to hide...
On 6/12/20 9:11 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Professors are a mixed lot.  I took a course from this guy, who apparently is 
still teaching although he would be well into his 80’s now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Butz

I had no idea at the time he was a Holocaust denier.  I’ve never understood 
those people – my dad was in the Army in WWII and participated in liberating 
some concentration camps.  I mean, it’s a freakin’ fact, how can you deny 
facts.  Anyway, my recollection of Professor Butz was I had a friend who kept 
writing the name as “Prof. Butts” on his assignments and tests.  We kept 
telling him it was spelled Butz but he thought we were joking.  Brings new 
meaning to the expression “butt of a joke”.


From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 10:54 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

Were you in the same class as I was?   We had the same professor, I think..  
Drove me off the deep end...  Specially when he blocked the equations with his 
body as he erased!!   But we had this one other assoc-prof..   Name of Jim 
Clark..  He was wild, specially when he went into game theory and betting 
systems..  Yep that Clark.   Worked for him 20 years later...
On 6/12/20 8:44 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

Oh man. I was doing great in calculus until we got to differential equations. I 
blame the professor. Harry Blackman. What a terrible professor! He lectured 
with his back to the class and wrote on the blackboard; chalk in his 
outstretched right hand, and eraser in his outstretched left hand. He would 
write equations as he droned, and erased the information in the space between 
his hands. What a horrible experience that was!



bp




On 6/12/2020 8:22 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
See, I only cared about the digital stuff.   Though power, motors, etc. were 
pretty cool as well.   Grades were good in those classes.

Senior project the advisor dinged me for building a system for a plant out of a 
microcontroller instead of using a PLC like he suggested.   But I want to do 
Microcontrollers.   Yep, first job was building industrial control systems with 
PLC’s.   I’m guessing I was a completely cocky bastard as a 21 year old.   
Perhaps someday I’ll grow out of that.   Or not.

Heh, calculus.   My last all ni

Re: [AFMUG] Cloud Hosted Mikrotik

[Steven Kenney]

I agree.. I think I mentioned that applications only are a good trade off 
probably worth it in some regards. But for 24/7 servers .. nope. Good thing 
about apps is you don't need to manage the operating system at all. However you 
are at the mercy of them managing everything. 

-- 
Steven Kenney 
Network Operations Manager 
WaveDirect Telecommunications 
http://www.wavedirect.net 
(519)737-WAVE (9283) 


From: "Mike Hammett"  
To: "af"  
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 5:48:09 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cloud Hosted Mikrotik 

Well, they're great for applications designed for that environment. Ones that 
automatically spin up or shut down worker VMs as needed. Have an application 
that only runs from 12 AM to 4 AM to get it's work done, but there's a metric 
butt-load of work to do in that time? One orchestration VM, 100 worker VMs that 
turn on at midnight and shut off a few hours later. 

I may not have the details correct, but I'm just trying to throw the concept 
out there. 

Definitely a bad choice for constant workloads. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
[ http://www.ics-il.com/ | Intelligent Computing Solutions ] 
[ https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL ] [ 
https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb ] [ 
https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions ] [ 
https://twitter.com/ICSIL ] 
[ http://www.midwest-ix.com/ | Midwest Internet Exchange ] 
[ https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix ] [ 
https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange ] [ 
https://twitter.com/mdwestix ] 
[ http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/ | The Brothers WISP ] 
[ https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp ] [ 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg ] 

From: "Steven Kenney"  
To: "af"  
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 11:05:34 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cloud Hosted Mikrotik 

Consider the $160 month over 72 months = $11520. For almost the same cost, I 
can get a dell server virtualize it, run multiple servers on it, and if well 
maintained will last well past 72 months. 

Its just pure math. AWS isn't cost effective unless you are using it for a 
lower traffic app that you need to be global so you can have instances set up 
around the world. 

Scalability is a few more steps in Vmware or proxmox or whatever. I simply edit 
the resources, restart the vm, resize the disks bring it back up and its good 
to go. Literally a 10 min process. I've been sitting on 5+ physical servers 
that can run 60-100 linux servers for 6 years now and I still have plenty of 
room to grow. 

The only thing that sucks is the power and cooling costs. 

-- 
Steven Kenney 
Network Operations Manager 
WaveDirect Telecommunications 
http://www.wavedirect.net 
(519)737-WAVE (9283) 


From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)"  
To: "af"  
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:06:47 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cloud Hosted Mikrotik 

I have similar gripes with AWS. If you've got an application which was written 
for AWS and takes advantage of their infrastructure in the right way it isn't 
that bad. For instance, I'm seriously looking at using their serverless/IoT 
infrastructure for something I'm working on here, and the pricing I'm seeing is 
far better than I could do with a reasonable infrastructure to support it. Plus 
it scales nicely. 
For more traditional systems, Normal AWS is pretty expensive. On the other 
hand, the newer Lightsail service is more oriented toward those apps... You can 
get a entry-level server for $3.50/month, or at the other end, $160/month you 
can get a 32GB RAM, 8 Core, 640GB storage server. 

On the other hand, I really like Vultr, which has similar pricing but it is a 
lot easier to deal with. 

On Thu, Jun 11, 2020 at 9:59 AM Dennis Burgess via AF < [ 
mailto:af@af.afmug.com | af@af.afmug.com ] > wrote: 





We tried to toss TowerCoveage.com to AWS. Their quote was around 45k a month! 
We are the exact opposite of what they want, high CPU and high IOPs. 










Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer 
MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium ePMP 
Certified 

Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition” 

Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services 

Office : 314-735-0270 Website: [ http://www.linktechs.net/ | 
http://www.linktechs.net ] 

Create Wireless Coverage’s with [ http://www.towercoverage.com/ | 
www.towercoverage.com ] 





From: AF < [ mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com | af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] > On 
Behalf Of Steven Kenney 
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 8:42 AM 
To: af < [ mailto:af@af.afmug.com | af@af.afmug.com ] > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cloud Hosted Mikrotik 





Nobody make a product anymore and sells it. Its all subscription based. Its 
royally pissing me off too. I mean even in app games if you wanna remove ads 
you could just buy the game. NOW you need to pay $10 to remove ads for A MONTH 
or a period of time. 





Anyhoo.. as far as CHR - I've messed around with it on Amazon and it does work. 
Quite cool actually but I've found after crunc

Re: [AFMUG] Cloud Hosted Mikrotik

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

So let me go down to the other end of the scale.

All of the packetflux web presence other than the ecommerce platform lives
on two Vultr VM's.   Total cost?  $11/month.

It could actually be $5/month, but I wanted to separate out the ticketing
system just because I didn't want to make a mess of the non-ticketing VM
with all the oddities that the ticketing system requires.

I'd have a hard time even paying for the hardware at this price.And I
don't have to worry about power, cooling, dealing with the hardware, etc.

Now talking about AWS, I agree with Mike, where that shines is where you
can use their infrastructure in the way it was intended.For instance,
as I mentioned previously I'm strongly looking at spinning up a serverless
infrastructure on AWS for some IoT stuff I'm playing with.  Serverless
means that there are *no* 24x7 servers running on your application.   For
example, you can set up a web page entirely on amazon S3, and then you pay
only for storage and requests.   2.3 cents/month per GB of storage,  and
0.4 cents per request (or stated the other way:  $1 per 2.5 million
requests).   There is also some minimal transfer-out fees if you use more
than 1GB/month.

So, many static websites can be hosted on S3 for well under $1/month.   I
have some stuff that I was going to go that way with, but it was just
easier to put it on the already-purchased $5/month server and be done with
it.

But if you go to AWS to get a high-core server on 24x7 then yes, it's
arguably cheaper to run it in-house.The point of AWS and also services
like vultr are more about running intermittent services, or VM's which can
be shared well with others.  Or things that need to be scaled.

On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 10:06 AM Steven Kenney  wrote:

> Consider the $160 month over 72 months = $11520.   For almost the same
> cost,  I can get a dell server virtualize it, run multiple servers on it,
> and if well maintained will last well past 72 months.
>
> Its just pure math.  AWS isn't cost effective unless you are using it for
> a lower traffic app that you need to be global so you can have instances
> set up around the world.
>
> Scalability is a few more steps in Vmware or proxmox or whatever.  I
> simply edit the resources,  restart the vm, resize the disks bring it back
> up and its good to go.  Literally a 10 min process.   I've been sitting on
> 5+ physical servers that can run 60-100 linux servers for 6 years now and I
> still have plenty of room to grow.
>
> The only thing that sucks is the power and cooling costs.
>
> --
> Steven Kenney
> Network Operations Manager
> WaveDirect Telecommunications
> http://www.wavedirect.net
> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>
> --
> *From: *"Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
> *To: *"af" 
> *Sent: *Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:06:47 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Cloud Hosted Mikrotik
>
> I have similar gripes with AWS.   If you've got an application which was
> written for AWS and takes advantage of their infrastructure in the right
> way it isn't that bad.   For instance, I'm seriously looking at using their
> serverless/IoT infrastructure for something I'm working on here, and the
> pricing I'm seeing is far better than I could do with a reasonable
> infrastructure to support it.   Plus it scales nicely.
> For more traditional systems,  Normal AWS is pretty expensive.On the
> other hand, the newer Lightsail service is more oriented toward those
> apps...  You can get a entry-level server for $3.50/month, or at the other
> end, $160/month you can get a 32GB RAM,  8 Core, 640GB storage server.
>
> On the other hand, I really like Vultr, which has similar pricing but it
> is a lot easier to deal with.
>
> On Thu, Jun 11, 2020 at 9:59 AM Dennis Burgess via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> We tried to toss TowerCoveage.com to AWS.  Their quote was around 45k a
>> month!   We are the exact opposite of what they want, high CPU and high
>> IOPs.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *[image: LTI-Full_175px]*
>>
>>
>> *Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE,
>> MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium ePMP Certified *
>>
>> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
>>
>> *Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>>
>> *Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>>
>> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Steven Kenney
>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 11, 2020 8:42 AM
>> *To:* af 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cloud Hosted Mikrotik
>>
>>
>>
>> Nobody make a product anymore and sells it.  Its all subscription based.
>> Its royally pissing me off too.  I mean even in app games if you wanna
>> remove ads you could just buy the game.  NOW you need to pay $10 to remove
>> ads for A MONTH or a period of time.
>>
>>
>>
>> Anyhoo.. as far as CHR - I've messed around with it on Amazon and it does
>> work.  Quite cool actually but I've found after crunching the numbers
>> over the years its still

Re: [AFMUG] Cloud Hosted Mikrotik

[Josh Baird]

One additional benefit to AWS (and similar public cloud providers) is
managed services.

Don't have the DBA resources to run highly available relational databases
in house?  Use RDS.

Don't have the skillset to run containerized workloads?  Use EKS/ECS.

The bottom line is that AWS can provide the infrastructure building blocks
that allow you to build services quickly without a ton of expertise for
individual components like databases, storage, compute, CDN, auditing,
CI/CD, etc.  Additionally, like you said, workloads on AWS can get
substantially cheaper if they are "cloud-native" and are designed to take
advantage of cloud infrastructure and services.  This includes 24x7
workloads.



On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 7:08 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> So let me go down to the other end of the scale.
>
> All of the packetflux web presence other than the ecommerce platform lives
> on two Vultr VM's.   Total cost?  $11/month.
>
> It could actually be $5/month, but I wanted to separate out the ticketing
> system just because I didn't want to make a mess of the non-ticketing VM
> with all the oddities that the ticketing system requires.
>
> I'd have a hard time even paying for the hardware at this price.And I
> don't have to worry about power, cooling, dealing with the hardware, etc.
>
> Now talking about AWS, I agree with Mike, where that shines is where you
> can use their infrastructure in the way it was intended.For instance,
> as I mentioned previously I'm strongly looking at spinning up a serverless
> infrastructure on AWS for some IoT stuff I'm playing with.  Serverless
> means that there are *no* 24x7 servers running on your application.   For
> example, you can set up a web page entirely on amazon S3, and then you pay
> only for storage and requests.   2.3 cents/month per GB of storage,  and
> 0.4 cents per request (or stated the other way:  $1 per 2.5 million
> requests).   There is also some minimal transfer-out fees if you use more
> than 1GB/month.
>
> So, many static websites can be hosted on S3 for well under $1/month.   I
> have some stuff that I was going to go that way with, but it was just
> easier to put it on the already-purchased $5/month server and be done with
> it.
>
> But if you go to AWS to get a high-core server on 24x7 then yes, it's
> arguably cheaper to run it in-house.The point of AWS and also services
> like vultr are more about running intermittent services, or VM's which can
> be shared well with others.  Or things that need to be scaled.
>
> On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 10:06 AM Steven Kenney 
> wrote:
>
>> Consider the $160 month over 72 months = $11520.   For almost the same
>> cost,  I can get a dell server virtualize it, run multiple servers on it,
>> and if well maintained will last well past 72 months.
>>
>> Its just pure math.  AWS isn't cost effective unless you are using it for
>> a lower traffic app that you need to be global so you can have instances
>> set up around the world.
>>
>> Scalability is a few more steps in Vmware or proxmox or whatever.  I
>> simply edit the resources,  restart the vm, resize the disks bring it back
>> up and its good to go.  Literally a 10 min process.   I've been sitting on
>> 5+ physical servers that can run 60-100 linux servers for 6 years now and I
>> still have plenty of room to grow.
>>
>> The only thing that sucks is the power and cooling costs.
>>
>> --
>> Steven Kenney
>> Network Operations Manager
>> WaveDirect Telecommunications
>> http://www.wavedirect.net
>> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>>
>> --
>> *From: *"Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
>> *To: *"af" 
>> *Sent: *Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:06:47 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Cloud Hosted Mikrotik
>>
>> I have similar gripes with AWS.   If you've got an application which was
>> written for AWS and takes advantage of their infrastructure in the right
>> way it isn't that bad.   For instance, I'm seriously looking at using their
>> serverless/IoT infrastructure for something I'm working on here, and the
>> pricing I'm seeing is far better than I could do with a reasonable
>> infrastructure to support it.   Plus it scales nicely.
>> For more traditional systems,  Normal AWS is pretty expensive.On the
>> other hand, the newer Lightsail service is more oriented toward those
>> apps...  You can get a entry-level server for $3.50/month, or at the other
>> end, $160/month you can get a 32GB RAM,  8 Core, 640GB storage server.
>>
>> On the other hand, I really like Vultr, which has similar pricing but it
>> is a lot easier to deal with.
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 11, 2020 at 9:59 AM Dennis Burgess via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> We tried to toss TowerCoveage.com to AWS.  Their quote was around 45k a
>>> month!   We are the exact opposite of what they want, high CPU and high
>>> IOPs.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *[image: LTI-Full_175px]*
>>>
>>>
>>> *Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE,
>>> M