Re: [AFMUG] IPv6 in home routers

[Sterling Jacobson]

Well, it IS a lot more sparse than IPv4. So I agree with you that firewall 
should be as tight on IPv6 as possible, it’s also not really feasible to port 
scan IPv6 addresses…

From: AF  On Behalf Of dmmoff...@gmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2021 11:30 AM
To: 'Jesse DuPont' ; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users 
Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] IPv6 in home routers

Yes the firewall thing is a glaring hole especially since you’re giving out 
public IP space to everything.
I wonder how many internet enabled refrigerators and ovens have log4j libraries.


From: Jesse DuPont 
mailto:jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net>>
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2021 11:49 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>; 
dmmoff...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] IPv6 in home routers

I have done (somewhat) comprehensive testing of consumer routers and IPv6. 
You're right, Cambium/ReadyNet's implementation is either not functional or 
buggy (like, sometimes fails to announce itself as a gateway to the LAN). 
Mikrotik is great, but does take a few steps. Calix's support for IPv6 is solid 
and reliable. Netgear and Asus also have good IPv6 support, but it must be 
enabled. If doing DHCP, just enabling it with Auto Config is sufficient most of 
the time. If PPPoE, need to specify it's PPPoE and then to use the same session 
as IPv4. Linksys also generally has working IPv6 support, although the older 
stuff (3+ years) is a little spotty.

When I say working IPv6 support, I mean that they request a prefix via DHCP-PD, 
install that prefix on the LAN side and start announcing it to the LAN for 
SLAAC addressing. Most of them except Mikrotik seem to also require a global 
address via SLAAC on their WAN ports. So in my implementation, I have a SLAAC 
prefix on the subscriber router network from my equipment, and DHCP-PD running 
and the routers assign themselves a global address from the SLAAC prefix on 
their WAN ports and the DHCP-PD prefix on their LAN side. I guess they use the 
WAN address for things like DNS queries (for themselves and when they're doing 
DNS proxy). Mikrotik will use any global address for things like DNS queries, 
even an address on it's LAN side.

I'll also say that seems the IPv6 firewall is not enabled on about half of what 
I tested. Maybe it's better now, but even Mikrotik today doesn't have a 
standard set of consumer-router IPv6 firewall rules, at least not in RouterOS 
v6 or earlier. Maybe they do in v7.


Jesse DuPont

Owner / Network Architect
email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
Celerity Networks LLC / Celerity Broadband LLC
Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc

Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
[X]
On 12/13/21 2:51 PM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:

I was doing some testing on our dual stack FTTX network.

I grabbed a CnPilot R201P off the shelf.  IPv6 was disabled by default.  You 
had to enable it in 3 different places and even after following the guides on 
Cambium’s site the prefix delegation seems to not really work.
I grabbed an AirCube…..no IPv6 support at all.  It’s supported in the 
underlying OS, but not in the GUI.  Ubiquiti support says it’s coming, but 
they’ve been saying that for 2 years +.
I grabbed a Mikrotik…..works perfectly fine, but setup is beyond what any 
consumer is going to do.  If I’m quibbling, it doesn’t support stateful dhcp 
assignments from a delegated prefix.  That’s not too big of a deal.

Out of 3 routers I have close at hand, 1 is a faulty implementation, 1 is not 
implemented at all, and one is too hard for normal people.

So when people run out to the store and get a Netgear, Asus, or whatever router 
off the shelf is it hit-or-miss with those too?  I guess I naively assumed that 
25 years after IPv6 was created that we’d have working implementations by now.



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Re: [AFMUG] Customer payment demands

[Seth Mattinen]

On 12/14/21 7:10 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
We seen to have more and more business customers who are outsourcing 
their bill payments, but then that vendor puts more work on us.


Exampe#1, A payment vendor must give us a new 1 time use credit card 
every month.  They will NOT log into our portal do do this, they MUST 
talk to someone to give the card to.


Example#2, A payment vendor will not take mail/email delivery of the 
invoice, they MUST be sent through their bill payment vendors portal. 
(And they want us to attend a webinar to find out how to get this 
opportunity)





I just straight up tell them "no, that's not acceptable". There's stuff 
in our contracts about methods of payment and invoice delivery that 
always settles the issue if it goes that far.


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Re: [AFMUG] 477 reporting

[Chuck McCown via AF]

Thanks everyone.  

From: Dennis Burgess 
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2021 12:16 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 477 reporting

You can also input it into TowerCoverage.com, your fiber maps, then we will 
spit out the census blocks that you cover.  99% of our process is already done… 
 

 

 



Dennis Burgess


Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition” 

Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services 

Office: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net 

Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com 

Need MikroTik Cloud Management: https://cloud.linktechs.net 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Cameron Crum
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2021 1:03 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 477 reporting

 

Due every 6 months. Periods are Jan1 - June 30 with filing due Sept 1, and July 
1 - Dec 31 with filing due March 1. You have to have an FRN and a CORES login 
(new last filing). It's pretty straightforward once you log in. 

 

Cameron

 

On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 12:57 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

  We have the polygons and I think shape files now.  There is a state map we 
keep up to date.  

  I just need to know the mechanics, how often, which form, who do you send it 
to, how do you send it.

   

  From: Cameron Crum 

  Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2021 11:51 AM

  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 477 reporting

   

  I do these if you want help. For the deployment, I would just need a polygon 
(KML from GE is fine) around the homes you pass. I can create a spatial query 
against the census blocks as I already have a spatial DB set up for this. If 
you need subscriptions as well I can do those but I'd need a bit more info. If 
you have a DB with the block data, you can do it yourself. 

   

   

   

  On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 12:32 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

I have not yet filed a 477 on my new fiber startup.  But we only have about 
40 customers.  

What is a good way to start?

 

 

 

Best Regards,
Chuck McCown

McCown Technology Corporation 
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench-blades.com

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Re: [AFMUG] 477 reporting

[Dennis Burgess]

You can also input it into TowerCoverage.com, your fiber maps, then we will 
spit out the census blocks that you cover.  99% of our process is already done…


[LTI-Full_175px]
Dennis Burgess

Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
Office: 314-735-0270  Website: 
http://www.linktechs.net
Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
Need MikroTik Cloud Management: https://cloud.linktechs.net

From: AF  On Behalf Of Cameron Crum
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2021 1:03 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 477 reporting

Due every 6 months. Periods are Jan1 - June 30 with filing due Sept 1, and July 
1 - Dec 31 with filing due March 1. You have to have an FRN and a CORES login 
(new last filing). It's pretty straightforward once you log in.

Cameron

On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 12:57 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> wrote:
We have the polygons and I think shape files now.  There is a state map we keep 
up to date.
I just need to know the mechanics, how often, which form, who do you send it 
to, how do you send it.

From: Cameron Crum
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2021 11:51 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 477 reporting

I do these if you want help. For the deployment, I would just need a polygon 
(KML from GE is fine) around the homes you pass. I can create a spatial query 
against the census blocks as I already have a spatial DB set up for this. If 
you need subscriptions as well I can do those but I'd need a bit more info. If 
you have a DB with the block data, you can do it yourself.



On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 12:32 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> wrote:
I have not yet filed a 477 on my new fiber startup.  But we only have about 40 
customers.
What is a good way to start?



Best Regards,
Chuck McCown

McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com
https://imsva91-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=www.microtrench%2dblades.com=8CD0CC64-D320-0605-87D1-8271C19FE903=079c058f437b7c6303d36c6513e5e8848d0c5ac4-5603f73c7eb0c5b6ecf1ad4d7229ab96446a9931
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Re: [AFMUG] 477 reporting

[Cameron Crum]

Due every 6 months. Periods are Jan1 - June 30 with filing due Sept 1, and
July 1 - Dec 31 with filing due March 1. You have to have an FRN and a
CORES login (new last filing). It's pretty straightforward once you log in.

Cameron

On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 12:57 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
wrote:

> We have the polygons and I think shape files now.  There is a state map we
> keep up to date.
> I just need to know the mechanics, how often, which form, who do you send
> it to, how do you send it.
>
> *From:* Cameron Crum
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 14, 2021 11:51 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 477 reporting
>
> I do these if you want help. For the deployment, I would just need a
> polygon (KML from GE is fine) around the homes you pass. I can create a
> spatial query against the census blocks as I already have a spatial DB set
> up for this. If you need subscriptions as well I can do those but I'd need
> a bit more info. If you have a DB with the block data, you can do it
> yourself.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 12:32 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> I have not yet filed a 477 on my new fiber startup.  But we only have
>> about 40 customers.
>> What is a good way to start?
>>
>>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Chuck McCown
>>
>> McCown Technology Corporation
>> 8401 N Commerce Dr
>> Lake Point, Utah 84074
>> 801-250-9503 Office
>> 435-830-4306 Cell
>> www.mccowntech.com
>> www.microtrench-blades.com
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] 477 reporting

[dmmoffett]

Read the FCC 477 instructions.  The form is done online, and it’s easy except 
for the CSV attachments. 

 

With 40 customers and a small deployment you could probably get by doing it in 
Excel and looking up the census block and tract numbers by hand.  That’s not 
going to scale well though.  Long term you either need to set it up in a GIS 
package or farm it out to someone who can do that.

 

-Adam

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2021 1:57 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 477 reporting

 

We have the polygons and I think shape files now.  There is a state map we keep 
up to date.  

I just need to know the mechanics, how often, which form, who do you send it 
to, how do you send it.

 

From: Cameron Crum 

Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2021 11:51 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 477 reporting

 

I do these if you want help. For the deployment, I would just need a polygon 
(KML from GE is fine) around the homes you pass. I can create a spatial query 
against the census blocks as I already have a spatial DB set up for this. If 
you need subscriptions as well I can do those but I'd need a bit more info. If 
you have a DB with the block data, you can do it yourself. 

 

 

 

On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 12:32 PM Chuck McCown via AF <  
af@af.afmug.com> wrote:

I have not yet filed a 477 on my new fiber startup.  But we only have about 40 
customers.  

What is a good way to start?

 

 

 

Best Regards,
Chuck McCown

McCown Technology Corporation 
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
  www.mccowntech.com
  www.microtrench-blades.com

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Re: [AFMUG] 477 reporting

[Brian Webster]

You can ping me and I can help. This next filing requires operators to use
the census 2020 geography files now. For your small system I can make up
some files for that general area and you can pick and choose them if you
would like as things change/grow

 

Thank you,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2021 1:31 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Cc: Chuck McCown
Subject: [AFMUG] 477 reporting

 

I have not yet filed a 477 on my new fiber startup.  But we only have about
40 customers.  

What is a good way to start?

 

 

 

Best Regards,
Chuck McCown

McCown Technology Corporation 
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench-blades.com

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Re: [AFMUG] 477 reporting

[Chuck McCown via AF]

We have the polygons and I think shape files now.  There is a state map we keep 
up to date.  
I just need to know the mechanics, how often, which form, who do you send it 
to, how do you send it.

From: Cameron Crum 
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2021 11:51 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 477 reporting

I do these if you want help. For the deployment, I would just need a polygon 
(KML from GE is fine) around the homes you pass. I can create a spatial query 
against the census blocks as I already have a spatial DB set up for this. If 
you need subscriptions as well I can do those but I'd need a bit more info. If 
you have a DB with the block data, you can do it yourself. 



On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 12:32 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

  I have not yet filed a 477 on my new fiber startup.  But we only have about 
40 customers.  
  What is a good way to start?



  Best Regards,
  Chuck McCown

  McCown Technology Corporation 
  8401 N Commerce Dr
  Lake Point, Utah 84074
  801-250-9503 Office
  435-830-4306 Cell
  www.mccowntech.com
  www.microtrench-blades.com

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Re: [AFMUG] 477 reporting

[Cameron Crum]

I do these if you want help. For the deployment, I would just need a
polygon (KML from GE is fine) around the homes you pass. I can create a
spatial query against the census blocks as I already have a spatial DB set
up for this. If you need subscriptions as well I can do those but I'd need
a bit more info. If you have a DB with the block data, you can do it
yourself.



On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 12:32 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
wrote:

> I have not yet filed a 477 on my new fiber startup.  But we only have
> about 40 customers.
> What is a good way to start?
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Chuck McCown
>
> McCown Technology Corporation
> 8401 N Commerce Dr
> Lake Point, Utah 84074
> 801-250-9503 Office
> 435-830-4306 Cell
> www.mccowntech.com
> www.microtrench-blades.com
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
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[AFMUG] 477 reporting

[Chuck McCown via AF]

I have not yet filed a 477 on my new fiber startup.  But we only have about 40 
customers.  
What is a good way to start?



Best Regards,
Chuck McCown

McCown Technology Corporation 
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench-blades.com
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Re: [AFMUG] IPv6 in home routers

[dmmoffett]

Yes the firewall thing is a glaring hole especially since you’re giving out 
public IP space to everything.  

I wonder how many internet enabled refrigerators and ovens have log4j 
libraries.  

 

 

From: Jesse DuPont  
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2021 11:49 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; dmmoff...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] IPv6 in home routers

 

I have done (somewhat) comprehensive testing of consumer routers and IPv6. 
You're right, Cambium/ReadyNet's implementation is either not functional or 
buggy (like, sometimes fails to announce itself as a gateway to the LAN). 
Mikrotik is great, but does take a few steps. Calix's support for IPv6 is solid 
and reliable. Netgear and Asus also have good IPv6 support, but it must be 
enabled. If doing DHCP, just enabling it with Auto Config is sufficient most of 
the time. If PPPoE, need to specify it's PPPoE and then to use the same session 
as IPv4. Linksys also generally has working IPv6 support, although the older 
stuff (3+ years) is a little spotty.

When I say working IPv6 support, I mean that they request a prefix via DHCP-PD, 
install that prefix on the LAN side and start announcing it to the LAN for 
SLAAC addressing. Most of them except Mikrotik seem to also require a global 
address via SLAAC on their WAN ports. So in my implementation, I have a SLAAC 
prefix on the subscriber router network from my equipment, and DHCP-PD running 
and the routers assign themselves a global address from the SLAAC prefix on 
their WAN ports and the DHCP-PD prefix on their LAN side. I guess they use the 
WAN address for things like DNS queries (for themselves and when they're doing 
DNS proxy). Mikrotik will use any global address for things like DNS queries, 
even an address on it's LAN side.

I'll also say that seems the IPv6 firewall is not enabled on about half of what 
I tested. Maybe it's better now, but even Mikrotik today doesn't have a 
standard set of consumer-router IPv6 firewall rules, at least not in RouterOS 
v6 or earlier. Maybe they do in v7.

 

Jesse DuPont

Owner / Network Architect
email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net  
Celerity Networks LLC / Celerity Broadband LLC
Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc

Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband

  

 

On 12/13/21 2:51 PM, dmmoff...@gmail.com   wrote:

 

I was doing some testing on our dual stack FTTX network.  

 

I grabbed a CnPilot R201P off the shelf.  IPv6 was disabled by default.  You 
had to enable it in 3 different places and even after following the guides on 
Cambium’s site the prefix delegation seems to not really work.

I grabbed an AirCube…..no IPv6 support at all.  It’s supported in the 
underlying OS, but not in the GUI.  Ubiquiti support says it’s coming, but 
they’ve been saying that for 2 years +.

I grabbed a Mikrotik…..works perfectly fine, but setup is beyond what any 
consumer is going to do.  If I’m quibbling, it doesn’t support stateful dhcp 
assignments from a delegated prefix.  That’s not too big of a deal.

 

Out of 3 routers I have close at hand, 1 is a faulty implementation, 1 is not 
implemented at all, and one is too hard for normal people.

 

So when people run out to the store and get a Netgear, Asus, or whatever router 
off the shelf is it hit-or-miss with those too?  I guess I naively assumed that 
25 years after IPv6 was created that we’d have working implementations by now. 

 





 

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Re: [AFMUG] IPv6 in home routers

[Jesse DuPont]

  
  
I have done (somewhat) comprehensive testing of
  consumer routers and IPv6. You're right, Cambium/ReadyNet's
  implementation is either not functional or buggy (like, sometimes
  fails to announce itself as a gateway to the LAN). Mikrotik is
  great, but does take a few steps. Calix's support for IPv6 is
  solid and reliable. Netgear and Asus also have good IPv6 support,
  but it must be enabled. If doing DHCP, just enabling it with Auto
  Config is sufficient most of the time. If PPPoE, need to specify
  it's PPPoE and then to use the same session as IPv4. Linksys also
  generally has working IPv6 support, although the older stuff (3+
  years) is a little spotty.
  
  When I say working IPv6 support, I mean that they request a prefix
  via DHCP-PD, install that prefix on the LAN side and start
  announcing it to the LAN for SLAAC addressing. Most of them except
  Mikrotik seem to also require a global address via SLAAC on their
  WAN ports. So in my implementation, I have a SLAAC prefix on the
  subscriber router network from my equipment, and DHCP-PD running
  and the routers assign themselves a global address from the SLAAC
  prefix on their WAN ports and the DHCP-PD prefix on their LAN
  side. I guess they use the WAN address for things like DNS queries
  (for themselves and when they're doing DNS proxy). Mikrotik will
  use any global address for things like DNS queries, even an
  address on it's LAN side.
  
  I'll also say that seems the IPv6 firewall is not enabled on about
  half of what I tested. Maybe it's better now, but even Mikrotik
  today doesn't have a standard set of consumer-router IPv6 firewall
  rules, at least not in RouterOS v6 or earlier. Maybe they do in
  v7.


  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
Jesse DuPont
Owner
  / Network
  Architect
  email:
  jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
  Celerity
  Networks LLC / Celerity
Broadband LLC
  Like us!
  facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
Like
  us!
  facebook.com/celeritybroadband
 
  

On 12/13/21 2:51 PM,
  dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:


  
  
  
  
 
I was doing some testing on our dual stack
  FTTX network.  
 
I grabbed a CnPilot R201P off the shelf. 
  IPv6 was disabled by default.  You had to enable it in 3
  different places and even after following the guides on
  Cambium’s site the prefix delegation seems to not really work.
I grabbed an AirCube…..no IPv6 support at
  all.  It’s supported in the underlying OS, but not in the
  GUI.  Ubiquiti support says it’s coming, but they’ve been
  saying that for 2 years +.
I grabbed a Mikrotik…..works perfectly
  fine, but setup is beyond what any consumer is going to do.
   If I’m quibbling, it doesn’t support stateful dhcp
  assignments from a delegated prefix.  That’s not too big of a
  deal.
 
Out of 3 routers I have close at hand, 1 is
  a faulty implementation, 1 is not implemented at all, and one
  is too hard for normal people.
 
So when people run out to the store and get
  a Netgear, Asus, or whatever router off the shelf is it
  hit-or-miss with those too?  I guess I naively assumed that 25
  years after IPv6 was created that we’d have working
  implementations by now. 
 
  
  
  


  


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Re: [AFMUG] Customer payment demands

[Jan-GAMs]

If you are dealing with a vendor concerning payments, I am assuming you 
are trying to pay them, right?  Wouldn't they (vendors) be shutting you 
off when you don't pay them?  A wee-bit confused here with the 
terminology used.


My solution was when clients didn't pay, I turn the service down to 
dial-up quality and usually got paid with-in 24 hours.  The other part 
of the solution was to tell the "ACH" service to "pound sand".  Their 
requirements, hoop-jumping and charges were excessive and not worth the 
bother.  It was more than worth my time to put an employee on the job of 
billing.  I also found that a esase (enclosed self addressed stamped 
envelope) along with the bill was a good way to maintain customer 
relations and announcements and often got referrals for more clients.  
Cheap advertisements!


On 12/14/21 07:48, Josh Luthman wrote:
Maybe they have agreements with the big companies - one agreement with 
AT covers 1000s of accounts and saves a ton of processing every month.


Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 10:32 AM Nate Burke  wrote:

Even answering the questions takes some work though.  I guess it's
more of a question on how these payment companies make a go of it
since none of the 'big boys' will play their games either, why do
they even bother.

On 12/14/2021 9:20 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

"We are unable to do  to accept billing at this
time.  We accept cash, check, and can process your credit card or
bank account automatically."

I have one of those vendors wanting my bank info so they can push
their ACH transfers.  They ask about every other month at which
point I say that and suddenly they go right back to mailing me a
check.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 10:15 AM Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
 wrote:

I ignore all these requests.
When the internet turns off automatically due to non-payment,
magically it gets paid.

The margins on internet aren't thick enough to babysit anyone.

Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-999-7000
http://www.brazoswifi.com

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2021 9:11 AM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: [AFMUG] Customer payment demands

We seen to have more and more business customers who are
outsourcing their bill payments, but then that vendor puts
more work on us.

Exampe#1, A payment vendor must give us a new 1 time use
credit card every month.  They will NOT log into our portal
do do this, they MUST talk to someone to give the card to.

Example#2, A payment vendor will not take mail/email delivery
of the invoice, they MUST be sent through their bill payment
vendors portal.
(And they want us to attend a webinar to find out how to get this
opportunity)

I can't believe that Any Comcast/AT/ElectricCompany/Insert
large utility here, would do any extra work on their part to
get paid, so how are these services actually working?

Of course, we won't mention the customers who can't see the
17 different spots on the bill that say to send payments to
our Lockbox, but find the
1 small return mailing address of our office, and will send
their payments there every month.

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Re: [AFMUG] Customer payment demands

[Josh Luthman]

Maybe they have agreements with the big companies - one agreement with AT
covers 1000s of accounts and saves a ton of processing every month.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 10:32 AM Nate Burke  wrote:

> Even answering the questions takes some work though.  I guess it's more of
> a question on how these payment companies make a go of it since none of the
> 'big boys' will play their games either, why do they even bother.
>
> On 12/14/2021 9:20 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> "We are unable to do  to accept billing at this time.
> We accept cash, check, and can process your credit card or bank account
> automatically."
>
> I have one of those vendors wanting my bank info so they can push their
> ACH transfers.  They ask about every other month at which point I say that
> and suddenly they go right back to mailing me a check.
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 10:15 AM Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] <
> j...@brazoswifi.com> wrote:
>
>> I ignore all these requests.
>> When the internet turns off automatically due to non-payment, magically
>> it gets paid.
>>
>> The margins on internet aren't thick enough to babysit anyone.
>>
>> Jim Bouse
>> Owner - Brazos WiFi
>> 979-999-7000
>> http://www.brazoswifi.com
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Nate Burke
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2021 9:11 AM
>> To: Animal Farm 
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Customer payment demands
>>
>> We seen to have more and more business customers who are outsourcing
>> their bill payments, but then that vendor puts more work on us.
>>
>> Exampe#1, A payment vendor must give us a new 1 time use credit card
>> every month.  They will NOT log into our portal do do this, they MUST talk
>> to someone to give the card to.
>>
>> Example#2, A payment vendor will not take mail/email delivery of the
>> invoice, they MUST be sent through their bill payment vendors portal.
>> (And they want us to attend a webinar to find out how to get this
>> opportunity)
>>
>> I can't believe that Any Comcast/AT/ElectricCompany/Insert large
>> utility here, would do any extra work on their part to get paid, so how are
>> these services actually working?
>>
>> Of course, we won't mention the customers who can't see the 17 different
>> spots on the bill that say to send payments to our Lockbox, but find the
>> 1 small return mailing address of our office, and will send their
>> payments there every month.
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Customer payment demands

[Nate Burke]

Even answering the questions takes some work though.  I guess it's more 
of a question on how these payment companies make a go of it since none 
of the 'big boys' will play their games either, why do they even bother.


On 12/14/2021 9:20 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
"We are unable to do  to accept billing at this 
time.  We accept cash, check, and can process your credit card or bank 
account automatically."


I have one of those vendors wanting my bank info so they can push 
their ACH transfers.  They ask about every other month at which point 
I say that and suddenly they go right back to mailing me a check.


Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 10:15 AM Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] 
mailto:j...@brazoswifi.com>> wrote:


I ignore all these requests.
When the internet turns off automatically due to non-payment,
magically it gets paid.

The margins on internet aren't thick enough to babysit anyone.

Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-999-7000
http://www.brazoswifi.com

-Original Message-
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2021 9:11 AM
To: Animal Farm mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: [AFMUG] Customer payment demands

We seen to have more and more business customers who are
outsourcing their bill payments, but then that vendor puts more
work on us.

Exampe#1, A payment vendor must give us a new 1 time use credit
card every month.  They will NOT log into our portal do do this,
they MUST talk to someone to give the card to.

Example#2, A payment vendor will not take mail/email delivery of
the invoice, they MUST be sent through their bill payment vendors
portal.
(And they want us to attend a webinar to find out how to get this
opportunity)

I can't believe that Any Comcast/AT/ElectricCompany/Insert large
utility here, would do any extra work on their part to get paid,
so how are these services actually working?

Of course, we won't mention the customers who can't see the 17
different spots on the bill that say to send payments to our
Lockbox, but find the
1 small return mailing address of our office, and will send their
payments there every month.

--
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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] Customer payment demands

[Steve Jones]

Id have no issue with it. $483 custom billing surcharge and a $15.94
processing fee on top of the bill is more than fair

On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 9:21 AM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> "We are unable to do  to accept billing at this time.
> We accept cash, check, and can process your credit card or bank account
> automatically."
>
> I have one of those vendors wanting my bank info so they can push their
> ACH transfers.  They ask about every other month at which point I say that
> and suddenly they go right back to mailing me a check.
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 10:15 AM Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] <
> j...@brazoswifi.com> wrote:
>
>> I ignore all these requests.
>> When the internet turns off automatically due to non-payment, magically
>> it gets paid.
>>
>> The margins on internet aren't thick enough to babysit anyone.
>>
>> Jim Bouse
>> Owner - Brazos WiFi
>> 979-999-7000
>> http://www.brazoswifi.com
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Nate Burke
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2021 9:11 AM
>> To: Animal Farm 
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Customer payment demands
>>
>> We seen to have more and more business customers who are outsourcing
>> their bill payments, but then that vendor puts more work on us.
>>
>> Exampe#1, A payment vendor must give us a new 1 time use credit card
>> every month.  They will NOT log into our portal do do this, they MUST talk
>> to someone to give the card to.
>>
>> Example#2, A payment vendor will not take mail/email delivery of the
>> invoice, they MUST be sent through their bill payment vendors portal.
>> (And they want us to attend a webinar to find out how to get this
>> opportunity)
>>
>> I can't believe that Any Comcast/AT/ElectricCompany/Insert large
>> utility here, would do any extra work on their part to get paid, so how are
>> these services actually working?
>>
>> Of course, we won't mention the customers who can't see the 17 different
>> spots on the bill that say to send payments to our Lockbox, but find the
>> 1 small return mailing address of our office, and will send their
>> payments there every month.
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Customer payment demands

[Josh Luthman]

"We are unable to do  to accept billing at this time.  We
accept cash, check, and can process your credit card or bank account
automatically."

I have one of those vendors wanting my bank info so they can push their ACH
transfers.  They ask about every other month at which point I say that and
suddenly they go right back to mailing me a check.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 10:15 AM Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] 
wrote:

> I ignore all these requests.
> When the internet turns off automatically due to non-payment, magically it
> gets paid.
>
> The margins on internet aren't thick enough to babysit anyone.
>
> Jim Bouse
> Owner - Brazos WiFi
> 979-999-7000
> http://www.brazoswifi.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Nate Burke
> Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2021 9:11 AM
> To: Animal Farm 
> Subject: [AFMUG] Customer payment demands
>
> We seen to have more and more business customers who are outsourcing their
> bill payments, but then that vendor puts more work on us.
>
> Exampe#1, A payment vendor must give us a new 1 time use credit card every
> month.  They will NOT log into our portal do do this, they MUST talk to
> someone to give the card to.
>
> Example#2, A payment vendor will not take mail/email delivery of the
> invoice, they MUST be sent through their bill payment vendors portal.
> (And they want us to attend a webinar to find out how to get this
> opportunity)
>
> I can't believe that Any Comcast/AT/ElectricCompany/Insert large utility
> here, would do any extra work on their part to get paid, so how are these
> services actually working?
>
> Of course, we won't mention the customers who can't see the 17 different
> spots on the bill that say to send payments to our Lockbox, but find the
> 1 small return mailing address of our office, and will send their payments
> there every month.
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Customer payment demands

[Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]]

I ignore all these requests.
When the internet turns off automatically due to non-payment, magically it gets 
paid.

The margins on internet aren't thick enough to babysit anyone.

Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-999-7000
http://www.brazoswifi.com

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2021 9:11 AM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: [AFMUG] Customer payment demands

We seen to have more and more business customers who are outsourcing their bill 
payments, but then that vendor puts more work on us.

Exampe#1, A payment vendor must give us a new 1 time use credit card every 
month.  They will NOT log into our portal do do this, they MUST talk to someone 
to give the card to.

Example#2, A payment vendor will not take mail/email delivery of the invoice, 
they MUST be sent through their bill payment vendors portal.  
(And they want us to attend a webinar to find out how to get this
opportunity)

I can't believe that Any Comcast/AT/ElectricCompany/Insert large utility 
here, would do any extra work on their part to get paid, so how are these 
services actually working?

Of course, we won't mention the customers who can't see the 17 different spots 
on the bill that say to send payments to our Lockbox, but find the
1 small return mailing address of our office, and will send their payments 
there every month.

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
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[AFMUG] Customer payment demands

[Nate Burke]

We seen to have more and more business customers who are outsourcing 
their bill payments, but then that vendor puts more work on us.


Exampe#1, A payment vendor must give us a new 1 time use credit card 
every month.  They will NOT log into our portal do do this, they MUST 
talk to someone to give the card to.


Example#2, A payment vendor will not take mail/email delivery of the 
invoice, they MUST be sent through their bill payment vendors portal.  
(And they want us to attend a webinar to find out how to get this 
opportunity)


I can't believe that Any Comcast/AT/ElectricCompany/Insert large 
utility here, would do any extra work on their part to get paid, so how 
are these services actually working?


Of course, we won't mention the customers who can't see the 17 different 
spots on the bill that say to send payments to our Lockbox, but find the 
1 small return mailing address of our office, and will send their 
payments there every month.


--
AF mailing list
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