Re: [AFMUG] Chicago Colo\Connectivity

[Mike Hammett]

I send an invoice, you send cashiers checks. No sorcery. ;-) 




But yeah, your first idea was spot on. I can help with that too. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Steve Jones"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 10:18:31 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Chicago Colo\Connectivity 


can you break down how this works? 


like we are in central IL, do we have to find leased lines to a colo center to 
gan benefit or is there some internet sorcery that gets our traffic there and 
back 


On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 10:16 AM Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 






We're looking to bring on some connectivity and colo customers in Chicago. You 
can locate some servers in a legendary data center (Equinix at 350 E. Cermak) 
or pick up connectivity. We've got Cogent as well as a connection to an IX that 
gets you connectivity to Akamai, Amazon, Cloudflare, Facebook, Google, 
Microsoft, Netflix, Oath\Yahoo, Riot Games, Salesforce, etc. There's also 
connectivity to Indianapolis. 


We can also manage that connectivity for you if you want the benefits of good 
connectivity without needing to learn additional skills. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




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Re: [AFMUG] Wisp Tower climber pay scale

[Craig House]

I’m talking about for trained competent tower climbers who work for me. I’m 
legitimately trying to be fair and keep good employees. I have no desire to 
have untrained under qualified employees. I’m no longer a wisp owner although I 
do a lot of work for wisp companies as well as a lot of two-way communications 
work and contract work but nothing cellular. Thanks for all of the input guys

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 16, 2022, at 12:38, Steve Jones  wrote:
> 
> 
> Are you talking tower climber with certification working for a tower company, 
> or just johnny with the harness at the WISP?
> I used to be Johnny with the harness, that was dumb.
> Nobody should be climbing towers without legitimate training, legitimate 
> equipment and legitimate pay. 20-35 is what that should be around here (IL)
> 
> If youre asking for yourself as a climber, if youre not offered certification 
> (or legitimate training) and legitimate equipment, dont worry about pay, just 
> quit, now.
> If youre asking as an owner, I really hope its because you're trying to 
> figure out how to pay for legitimate training and legitimate equipment while 
> offering a reasonable compensation.
> 
> Even with inflation, which will recede, a low man can live in most non cities 
> on 20, and experienced climber can make it on 25-35 for sure. Not talking 
> about "living wage" just reasonable compensation for skilled labor. I think 
> "living wage" according to those who use phrases like "living wage" and "this 
> tastes like cum" no one can even begin to survive on less than 75 dollars an 
> hour
> 
>> On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 12:06 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>> Be thankful we're not in Europe. US inflation is high, but in Europe 
>> it's astronomic.
>> 
>> 
>> bp
>> 
>> 
>> On 11/16/2022 9:28 AM, Craig House wrote:
>> > Read the recent inflation on everything in this country what is the going 
>> > ratr now for tower climbers pay. I did a Google search for the national 
>> > average on tower climbers pay scale and it seems to be around $17-$19 an 
>> > hour but that seems low to me given today’s economy and you can get a job 
>> > flipping burgers for 16
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> 
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Re: [AFMUG] Wisp Tower climber pay scale

[Steve Jones]

Are you talking tower climber with certification working for a tower
company, or just johnny with the harness at the WISP?
I used to be Johnny with the harness, that was dumb.
Nobody should be climbing towers without legitimate training, legitimate
equipment and legitimate pay. 20-35 is what that should be around here (IL)

If youre asking for yourself as a climber, if youre not offered
certification (or legitimate training) and legitimate equipment, dont worry
about pay, just quit, now.
If youre asking as an owner, I really hope its because you're trying to
figure out how to pay for legitimate training and legitimate equipment
while offering a reasonable compensation.

Even with inflation, which will recede, a low man can live in most non
cities on 20, and experienced climber can make it on 25-35 for sure. Not
talking about "living wage" just reasonable compensation for skilled labor.
I think "living wage" according to those who use phrases like "living wage"
and "this tastes like cum" no one can even begin to survive on less than 75
dollars an hour

On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 12:06 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> Be thankful we're not in Europe. US inflation is high, but in Europe
> it's astronomic.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 11/16/2022 9:28 AM, Craig House wrote:
> > Read the recent inflation on everything in this country what is the
> going ratr now for tower climbers pay. I did a Google search for the
> national average on tower climbers pay scale and it seems to be around
> $17-$19 an hour but that seems low to me given today’s economy and you can
> get a job flipping burgers for 16
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Wisp Tower climber pay scale

[Bill Prince]

Be thankful we're not in Europe. US inflation is high, but in Europe 
it's astronomic.



bp


On 11/16/2022 9:28 AM, Craig House wrote:

Read the recent inflation on everything in this country what is the going ratr 
now for tower climbers pay. I did a Google search for the national average on 
tower climbers pay scale and it seems to be around $17-$19 an hour but that 
seems low to me given today’s economy and you can get a job flipping burgers 
for 16

Sent from my iPhone


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Re: [AFMUG] Wisp Tower climber pay scale

[Tyson Burris]

$25-$35 is the ballpark range here in Indiana.

Tyson Burris, President 
Internet Communications Inc. 
739 Commerce Dr. 
Franklin, IN 46131 
  
Office # 317-738-0320 
Cell/Direct # 317-412-1540 
Online: www.surfici.net 


What can ICI do for you? 

Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP Cameras - 
Fiber - Towers - Infrastructure. 
  
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the 
addressee shown. It contains information that is 
confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review, 
dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by 
unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly 
prohibited. 

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Craig House
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 12:28 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Wisp Tower climber pay scale

Read the recent inflation on everything in this country what is the going ratr 
now for tower climbers pay. I did a Google search for the national average on 
tower climbers pay scale and it seems to be around $17-$19 an hour but that 
seems low to me given today’s economy and you can get a job flipping burgers 
for 16

Sent from my iPhone
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[AFMUG] Wisp Tower climber pay scale

[Craig House]

Read the recent inflation on everything in this country what is the going ratr 
now for tower climbers pay. I did a Google search for the national average on 
tower climbers pay scale and it seems to be around $17-$19 an hour but that 
seems low to me given today’s economy and you can get a job flipping burgers 
for 16

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [AFMUG] Solar panel ice/snow buildup

[Chuck McCown via AF]

Price per BTU is important.  Propane is half the cost of Diesel per btu.
Propane is very clean if you can use vapor.

If you need it at the super cold temps you will want a liquid pickup.  That 
will have to be filtered and then vaporized.

Takes a bit of energy to start the vaporizer but once the engine is running the 
water jacket will do the job.  
Most standby generators heat the waterjacket anyhow so it will probably not 
need external power for the vaporizer.  

Propane powered trucks use a liquid pickup.  
Yes, you can run a semi off of propane, but you have to blend it with a bit of 
Diesel.  


From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 8:16 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Solar panel ice/snow buildup

Regardless of maintenance and upkeep, the thing I can see right up front would 
be energy density.  How many propane semis are there?

On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 10:14 AM  wrote:

  I have noticed that large generators everywhere seem to all be diesel, and 
it’s something I’ve often wondered about.  Propane can be stored for decades.  
Diesel breaks down, gels, and grows algae.  So I’ve always gone with propane 
and just got the oversized tank.  I can’t imagine a heater for the tank is that 
huge of a problem (but I’ve never done it either).



  What is it that makes diesel more attractive for the larger generators?





  From: AF  On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
  Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 9:23 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Solar panel ice/snow buildup



  You can do something for it - heaters or maybe an additive.  Keep in mind all 
the really big data centers are all diesel (remember when NYC went dark during 
the hurricane?)



  On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 9:14 AM  wrote:

Wouldn’t diesel gel at -20F?  



From: AF  On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 8:55 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Solar panel ice/snow buildup



When I looked at propane for a standby generator at the data center I 
calculated it out as a 3000 gal tank at -20F to be able to provide sufficient 
flow for a 125k generator.   Or it needed a propane boiler to turn liquid to 
gas.   



I went with diesel :-)



Mark



  On Nov 15, 2022, at 11:43 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:



  How big is your propane tank?



  In the cold temps you need a large tank that is mostly full to keep the 
pressure high so it stays a vapor.   



  If the tank is small and/or below ~40% full then in the cold temps it 
doesn’t stay a vapor and the engine won’t run.  



  This site has a good explanation:



  https://www.hunker.com/13418816/how-does-cold-affect-propane-tanks





  -Sean





  On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 5:00 PM lists gogebicrange.net 
 wrote:

Sean,

We have had a bear of a time getting out propane generator to start 
below 10 degrees and defiantly below zero. What system are you using and does 
it start in the cold?  Everything I have found commercially available is setup 
for a grid tie with a small heater on the carb that runs on grid power.



Thanks,

Brandon





From: AF  On Behalf Of Sean Heskett
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2022 2:44 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Solar panel ice/snow buildup



In addition to froth-pak, be sure to tilt them at [latitude] + 23.5.  



We are at 40 north so we tilt the panels at about 65*  



40 + 23.5 = 63.5*



At that angle when there’s any amount of direct sunlight it slides 
pretty quick.  



But we also have a propane generator on-site because the stars don’t 
always align just right :-/



-Sean



On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 3:02 PM James Howard  wrote:

  I have a vague memory of a thread in bygone years about testing 
different kinds of coatings to help with buildup of snow/ice but I can’t find 
the thread and don’t remember if it was about solar panels or dish antennas.



  The only thing I can find when I search my archive is about using 
froth-pak on the back of the panels.  Are there any other options that work?

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-- 

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ZIRKEL 
Internet • WiFi • Phone • TV
970-871-8500 x100 - Office

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  970-871-8500 x100 - Office

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Re: [AFMUG] Chicago Colo\Connectivity

[Steve Jones]

can you break down how this works?

like we are in central IL, do we have to find leased lines to a colo center
to gan benefit or is there some internet sorcery that gets our traffic
there and back

On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 10:16 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> We're looking to bring on some connectivity and colo customers in Chicago.
> You can locate some servers in a legendary data center (Equinix at 350 E.
> Cermak) or pick up connectivity. We've got Cogent as well as a connection
> to an IX that gets you connectivity to Akamai, Amazon, Cloudflare,
> Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Netflix, Oath\Yahoo, Riot Games, Salesforce,
> etc. There's also connectivity to Indianapolis.
>
> We can also manage that connectivity for you if you want the benefits of
> good connectivity without needing to learn additional skills.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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AF mailing list
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Re: [AFMUG] Solar panel ice/snow buildup

[Josh Luthman]

Regardless of maintenance and upkeep, the thing I can see right up front
would be energy density.  How many propane semis are there?

On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 10:14 AM  wrote:

> I have noticed that large generators everywhere seem to all be diesel, and
> it’s something I’ve often wondered about.  Propane can be stored for
> decades.  Diesel breaks down, gels, and grows algae.  So I’ve always gone
> with propane and just got the oversized tank.  I can’t imagine a heater for
> the tank is that huge of a problem (but I’ve never done it either).
>
>
>
> What is it that makes diesel more attractive for the larger generators?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 16, 2022 9:23 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Solar panel ice/snow buildup
>
>
>
> You can do something for it - heaters or maybe an additive.  Keep in mind
> all the really big data centers are all diesel (remember when NYC went dark
> during the hurricane?)
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 9:14 AM  wrote:
>
> Wouldn’t diesel gel at -20F?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Mark Radabaugh
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 16, 2022 8:55 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Solar panel ice/snow buildup
>
>
>
> When I looked at propane for a standby generator at the data center I
> calculated it out as a 3000 gal tank at -20F to be able to provide
> sufficient flow for a 125k generator.   Or it needed a propane boiler to
> turn liquid to gas.
>
>
>
> I went with diesel :-)
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> On Nov 15, 2022, at 11:43 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
>
>
>
> How big is your propane tank?
>
>
>
> In the cold temps you need a large tank that is mostly full to keep the
> pressure high so it stays a vapor.
>
>
>
> If the tank is small and/or below ~40% full then in the cold temps it
> doesn’t stay a vapor and the engine won’t run.
>
>
>
> This site has a good explanation:
>
>
>
> https://www.hunker.com/13418816/how-does-cold-affect-propane-tanks
>
>
>
>
>
> -Sean
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 5:00 PM lists gogebicrange.net <
> li...@gogebicrange.net> wrote:
>
> Sean,
>
> We have had a bear of a time getting out propane generator to start below
> 10 degrees and defiantly below zero. What system are you using and does it
> start in the cold?  Everything I have found commercially available is setup
> for a grid tie with a small heater on the carb that runs on grid power.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Sean Heskett
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 12, 2022 2:44 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Solar panel ice/snow buildup
>
>
>
> In addition to froth-pak, be sure to tilt them at [latitude] + 23.5.
>
>
>
> We are at 40 north so we tilt the panels at about 65*
>
>
>
> 40 + 23.5 = 63.5*
>
>
>
> At that angle when there’s any amount of direct sunlight it slides pretty
> quick.
>
>
>
> But we also have a propane generator on-site because the stars don’t
> always align just right :-/
>
>
>
> -Sean
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 3:02 PM James Howard  wrote:
>
> I have a vague memory of a thread in bygone years about testing different
> kinds of coatings to help with buildup of snow/ice but I can’t find the
> thread and don’t remember if it was about solar panels or dish antennas.
>
>
>
> The only thing I can find when I search my archive is about using
> froth-pak on the back of the panels.  Are there any other options that work?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
>
> Sean Heskett
>
> ZIRKEL
> Internet • WiFi • Phone • TV
> 970-871-8500 x100 - Office
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
>
> Sean Heskett
>
> ZIRKEL
> Internet • WiFi • Phone • TV
> 970-871-8500 x100 - Office
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
> --
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>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Solar panel ice/snow buildup

[dmmoffett]

I have noticed that large generators everywhere seem to all be diesel, and it’s 
something I’ve often wondered about.  Propane can be stored for decades.  
Diesel breaks down, gels, and grows algae.  So I’ve always gone with propane 
and just got the oversized tank.  I can’t imagine a heater for the tank is that 
huge of a problem (but I’ve never done it either).

 

What is it that makes diesel more attractive for the larger generators?



 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 9:23 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Solar panel ice/snow buildup

 

You can do something for it - heaters or maybe an additive.  Keep in mind all 
the really big data centers are all diesel (remember when NYC went dark during 
the hurricane?)

 

On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 9:14 AM mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Wouldn’t diesel gel at -20F?  

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 8:55 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Solar panel ice/snow buildup

 

When I looked at propane for a standby generator at the data center I 
calculated it out as a 3000 gal tank at -20F to be able to provide sufficient 
flow for a 125k generator.   Or it needed a propane boiler to turn liquid to 
gas.   

 

I went with diesel :-)

 

Mark

 

On Nov 15, 2022, at 11:43 PM, Sean Heskett mailto:af...@zirkel.us> > wrote:

 

How big is your propane tank?

 

In the cold temps you need a large tank that is mostly full to keep the 
pressure high so it stays a vapor.   

 

If the tank is small and/or below ~40% full then in the cold temps it doesn’t 
stay a vapor and the engine won’t run.  

 

This site has a good explanation:

 

https://www.hunker.com/13418816/how-does-cold-affect-propane-tanks

 

 

-Sean

 

 

On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 5:00 PM lists gogebicrange.net 
  mailto:li...@gogebicrange.net> > wrote:

Sean,

We have had a bear of a time getting out propane generator to start below 10 
degrees and defiantly below zero. What system are you using and does it start 
in the cold?  Everything I have found commercially available is setup for a 
grid tie with a small heater on the carb that runs on grid power.

 

Thanks,

Brandon

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Sean Heskett
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2022 2:44 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Solar panel ice/snow buildup

 

In addition to froth-pak, be sure to tilt them at [latitude] + 23.5.  

 

We are at 40 north so we tilt the panels at about 65*  

 

40 + 23.5 = 63.5*

 

At that angle when there’s any amount of direct sunlight it slides pretty 
quick.  

 

But we also have a propane generator on-site because the stars don’t always 
align just right :-/

 

-Sean

 

On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 3:02 PM James Howard mailto:ja...@litewire.net> > wrote:

I have a vague memory of a thread in bygone years about testing different kinds 
of coatings to help with buildup of snow/ice but I can’t find the thread and 
don’t remember if it was about solar panels or dish antennas.

 

The only thing I can find when I search my archive is about using froth-pak on 
the back of the panels.  Are there any other options that work?

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ZIRKEL 
Internet • WiFi • Phone • TV
970-871-8500 x100 - Office

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970-871-8500 x100 - Office

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Re: [AFMUG] Solar panel ice/snow buildup

[Josh Luthman]

You can do something for it - heaters or maybe an additive.  Keep in mind
all the really big data centers are all diesel (remember when NYC went dark
during the hurricane?)

On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 9:14 AM  wrote:

> Wouldn’t diesel gel at -20F?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Mark Radabaugh
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 16, 2022 8:55 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Solar panel ice/snow buildup
>
>
>
> When I looked at propane for a standby generator at the data center I
> calculated it out as a 3000 gal tank at -20F to be able to provide
> sufficient flow for a 125k generator.   Or it needed a propane boiler to
> turn liquid to gas.
>
>
>
> I went with diesel :-)
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> On Nov 15, 2022, at 11:43 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
>
>
>
> How big is your propane tank?
>
>
>
> In the cold temps you need a large tank that is mostly full to keep the
> pressure high so it stays a vapor.
>
>
>
> If the tank is small and/or below ~40% full then in the cold temps it
> doesn’t stay a vapor and the engine won’t run.
>
>
>
> This site has a good explanation:
>
>
>
> https://www.hunker.com/13418816/how-does-cold-affect-propane-tanks
>
>
>
>
>
> -Sean
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 5:00 PM lists gogebicrange.net <
> li...@gogebicrange.net> wrote:
>
> Sean,
>
> We have had a bear of a time getting out propane generator to start below
> 10 degrees and defiantly below zero. What system are you using and does it
> start in the cold?  Everything I have found commercially available is setup
> for a grid tie with a small heater on the carb that runs on grid power.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Sean Heskett
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 12, 2022 2:44 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Solar panel ice/snow buildup
>
>
>
> In addition to froth-pak, be sure to tilt them at [latitude] + 23.5.
>
>
>
> We are at 40 north so we tilt the panels at about 65*
>
>
>
> 40 + 23.5 = 63.5*
>
>
>
> At that angle when there’s any amount of direct sunlight it slides pretty
> quick.
>
>
>
> But we also have a propane generator on-site because the stars don’t
> always align just right :-/
>
>
>
> -Sean
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 3:02 PM James Howard  wrote:
>
> I have a vague memory of a thread in bygone years about testing different
> kinds of coatings to help with buildup of snow/ice but I can’t find the
> thread and don’t remember if it was about solar panels or dish antennas.
>
>
>
> The only thing I can find when I search my archive is about using
> froth-pak on the back of the panels.  Are there any other options that work?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
>
> Sean Heskett
>
> ZIRKEL
> Internet • WiFi • Phone • TV
> 970-871-8500 x100 - Office
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
>
> Sean Heskett
>
> ZIRKEL
> Internet • WiFi • Phone • TV
> 970-871-8500 x100 - Office
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Solar panel ice/snow buildup

[dmmoffett]

Wouldn’t diesel gel at -20F?  

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 8:55 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Solar panel ice/snow buildup

 

When I looked at propane for a standby generator at the data center I 
calculated it out as a 3000 gal tank at -20F to be able to provide sufficient 
flow for a 125k generator.   Or it needed a propane boiler to turn liquid to 
gas.   

 

I went with diesel :-)

 

Mark





On Nov 15, 2022, at 11:43 PM, Sean Heskett mailto:af...@zirkel.us> > wrote:

 

How big is your propane tank?

 

In the cold temps you need a large tank that is mostly full to keep the 
pressure high so it stays a vapor.   

 

If the tank is small and/or below ~40% full then in the cold temps it doesn’t 
stay a vapor and the engine won’t run.  

 

This site has a good explanation:

 

https://www.hunker.com/13418816/how-does-cold-affect-propane-tanks

 

 

-Sean

 

 

On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 5:00 PM lists gogebicrange.net 
  mailto:li...@gogebicrange.net> > wrote:

Sean,

We have had a bear of a time getting out propane generator to start below 10 
degrees and defiantly below zero. What system are you using and does it start 
in the cold?  Everything I have found commercially available is setup for a 
grid tie with a small heater on the carb that runs on grid power.

 

Thanks,

Brandon

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Sean Heskett
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2022 2:44 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Solar panel ice/snow buildup

 

In addition to froth-pak, be sure to tilt them at [latitude] + 23.5.  

 

We are at 40 north so we tilt the panels at about 65*  

 

40 + 23.5 = 63.5*

 

At that angle when there’s any amount of direct sunlight it slides pretty 
quick.  

 

But we also have a propane generator on-site because the stars don’t always 
align just right :-/

 

-Sean

 

On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 3:02 PM James Howard mailto:ja...@litewire.net> > wrote:

I have a vague memory of a thread in bygone years about testing different kinds 
of coatings to help with buildup of snow/ice but I can’t find the thread and 
don’t remember if it was about solar panels or dish antennas.

 

The only thing I can find when I search my archive is about using froth-pak on 
the back of the panels.  Are there any other options that work?

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 

Sean Heskett

ZIRKEL 
Internet • WiFi • Phone • TV
970-871-8500 x100 - Office

-- 
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-- 

Sean Heskett

ZIRKEL 
Internet • WiFi • Phone • TV
970-871-8500 x100 - Office

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

 

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Re: [AFMUG] Solar panel ice/snow buildup

[Mark Radabaugh]

When I looked at propane for a standby generator at the data center I 
calculated it out as a 3000 gal tank at -20F to be able to provide sufficient 
flow for a 125k generator.   Or it needed a propane boiler to turn liquid to 
gas.   

I went with diesel :-)

Mark

> On Nov 15, 2022, at 11:43 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
> 
> How big is your propane tank?
> 
> In the cold temps you need a large tank that is mostly full to keep the 
> pressure high so it stays a vapor.   
> 
> If the tank is small and/or below ~40% full then in the cold temps it doesn’t 
> stay a vapor and the engine won’t run.  
> 
> This site has a good explanation:
> 
> https://www.hunker.com/13418816/how-does-cold-affect-propane-tanks 
> 
> 
> -Sean
> 
> 
> On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 5:00 PM lists gogebicrange.net 
>   > wrote:
> Sean,
> 
> We have had a bear of a time getting out propane generator to start below 10 
> degrees and defiantly below zero. What system are you using and does it start 
> in the cold?  Everything I have found commercially available is setup for a 
> grid tie with a small heater on the carb that runs on grid power.
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Brandon
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf 
> Of Sean Heskett
> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2022 2:44 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  >
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Solar panel ice/snow buildup
> 
>  
> 
> In addition to froth-pak, be sure to tilt them at [latitude] + 23.5.  
> 
>  
> 
> We are at 40 north so we tilt the panels at about 65*  
> 
>  
> 
> 40 + 23.5 = 63.5*
> 
>  
> 
> At that angle when there’s any amount of direct sunlight it slides pretty 
> quick.  
> 
>  
> 
> But we also have a propane generator on-site because the stars don’t always 
> align just right :-/
> 
>  
> 
> -Sean
> 
>  
> 
> On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 3:02 PM James Howard  > wrote:
> 
> I have a vague memory of a thread in bygone years about testing different 
> kinds of coatings to help with buildup of snow/ice but I can’t find the 
> thread and don’t remember if it was about solar panels or dish antennas.
> 
>  
> 
> The only thing I can find when I search my archive is about using froth-pak 
> on the back of the panels.  Are there any other options that work?
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com 
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
> 
> --
> 
> Sean Heskett
> 
> ZIRKEL 
> Internet • WiFi • Phone • TV
> 970-871-8500 x100 - Office
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com 
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
> 
> -- 
> Sean Heskett
> 
> ZIRKEL 
> Internet • WiFi • Phone • TV
> 970-871-8500 x100 - Office
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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