Re: [AFMUG] troubleshooting telco pairs

[dmmoffett]

Yes that’s definitely a thing.  Did it with Sipura SPA ATA’s a long time ago.  
Those don’t exist anymore, so I don’t know what hardware to get today, but yes 
absolutely.

-Adam

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of TJ Trout
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2024 11:25 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] troubleshooting telco pairs

 

I think you can make a virtual pots line using an FXO and FXS adapters over ip

 

On Wed, Jun 5, 2024, 7:58 AM mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com> > 
wrote:

You can kinda sniff along the wire.  I would tie the pairs together at the far 
end and put the tone on it.  But the age old method is to cut it in the middle 
and see which direction the fault lies.  Ground each wire at the far end in 
sequence and identify the problem wire.  Keep cutting the bad half.  Binary 
chopping.  You might be able to put tone on one wire to ground and sniff, or 
open the jacked at a mid point etc.  Find someone with an old fashioned copper 
TDR.  Do you only have 2 wire available?  Does it read open circuit or does it 
have some leakage, shorts or grounds?

 

Best Regards,
Chuck McCown

McCown Technology Corporation 
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com  
www.microtrench.pro  
www.terabitnetworks.com  

 

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Wednesday, June 5, 2024 8:44 AM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] troubleshooting telco pairs

 

Oddly, the customer’s IT guy does have Ethernet connectivity to the barns via 
wireless bridges.  But they want their barn controllers to also dial a list of 
phone numbers using the FAX line in the office.

 

Either I’m doing something stupid, or the wire’s broken in which case it wasn’t 
working over the POTS line either.

 

Farms can be very old school.  Don’t want eFAX.  Don’t want voicemail sent to 
email, they still use *97.  Don’t want IVRs or autoattendants or dial by name 
directory.  Don’t want computer-phone integration or softphones.  And yet the 
owner’s son drives a Tesla.

 

If it’s really a broken wire, then it’s their problem to get it fixed, I just 
usually start from the assumption that it was working when I got there and I’m 
doing something stupid.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Daniel White
Sent: Wednesday, June 5, 2024 9:27 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] troubleshooting telco pairs

 

Can you just eliminate the wire and do a wireless PtP between the two 
locations?  Even if you find the issue with the wire, if it is that convoluted, 
it sounds like an ongoing problem potentially.

 


  


Daniel White
Co-Founder

phone: +1 (702) 470-2770
direct: +1 (702) 470-2766

 

Ken Hohhof

June 5, 2024 at 1:24 AM

Anybody remember your POTS troubleshooting skills?

 

I’m trying to get an alarm system to work from a VoIP ATA over about 1000 feet 
of convoluted wiring at a farm, a combination of overhead and buried.  I get 
tone on my tone tracer (Tempo brand) but 0 VDC on a buttset or voltmeter.  It’s 
too far for my Fluke cable tester which is meant for data cables.

 

I suspect one wire in the pair is open, but I don’t know how to check this with 
just a tone tracer.

 

The alarm system just calls and plays a recorded voice announcement, so the 
VoIP part shouldn’t be tricky at all, not like FAX machines or alarms that use 
modems.  But it can’t even seize the line and call out.

 

 


  _  


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Re: [AFMUG] troubleshooting telco pairs

[chuck]

I totally forgot about those.  Nice pots line stretchers.  



From: dmmoff...@gmail.com 
Sent: Friday, June 7, 2024 6:33 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] troubleshooting telco pairs

Yes that’s definitely a thing.  Did it with Sipura SPA ATA’s a long time ago.  
Those don’t exist anymore, so I don’t know what hardware to get today, but yes 
absolutely.

-Adam

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of TJ Trout
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2024 11:25 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] troubleshooting telco pairs

 

I think you can make a virtual pots line using an FXO and FXS adapters over ip

 

On Wed, Jun 5, 2024, 7:58 AM  wrote:

  You can kinda sniff along the wire.  I would tie the pairs together at the 
far end and put the tone on it.  But the age old method is to cut it in the 
middle and see which direction the fault lies.  Ground each wire at the far end 
in sequence and identify the problem wire.  Keep cutting the bad half.  Binary 
chopping.  You might be able to put tone on one wire to ground and sniff, or 
open the jacked at a mid point etc.  Find someone with an old fashioned copper 
TDR.  Do you only have 2 wire available?  Does it read open circuit or does it 
have some leakage, shorts or grounds?

   

  Best Regards,
  Chuck McCown

  McCown Technology Corporation 
  8401 N Commerce Dr
  Lake Point, Utah 84074
  801-250-9503 Office
  435-830-4306 Cell
  www.mccowntech.com
  www.microtrench.pro
  www.terabitnetworks.com

   

  From: Ken Hohhof 

  Sent: Wednesday, June 5, 2024 8:44 AM

  To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] troubleshooting telco pairs

   

  Oddly, the customer’s IT guy does have Ethernet connectivity to the barns via 
wireless bridges.  But they want their barn controllers to also dial a list of 
phone numbers using the FAX line in the office.

   

  Either I’m doing something stupid, or the wire’s broken in which case it 
wasn’t working over the POTS line either.

   

  Farms can be very old school.  Don’t want eFAX.  Don’t want voicemail sent to 
email, they still use *97.  Don’t want IVRs or autoattendants or dial by name 
directory.  Don’t want computer-phone integration or softphones.  And yet the 
owner’s son drives a Tesla.

   

  If it’s really a broken wire, then it’s their problem to get it fixed, I just 
usually start from the assumption that it was working when I got there and I’m 
doing something stupid.

   

  From: AF  On Behalf Of Daniel White
  Sent: Wednesday, June 5, 2024 9:27 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] troubleshooting telco pairs

   

  Can you just eliminate the wire and do a wireless PtP between the two 
locations?  Even if you find the issue with the wire, if it is that convoluted, 
it sounds like an ongoing problem potentially.

   


   Daniel White
  Co-Founder

  phone: +1 (702) 470-2770
  direct: +1 (702) 470-2766
 
   

   

Ken Hohhof

June 5, 2024 at 1:24 AM

Anybody remember your POTS troubleshooting skills?

 

I’m trying to get an alarm system to work from a VoIP ATA over about 1000 
feet of convoluted wiring at a farm, a combination of overhead and buried.  I 
get tone on my tone tracer (Tempo brand) but 0 VDC on a buttset or voltmeter.  
It’s too far for my Fluke cable tester which is meant for data cables.

 

I suspect one wire in the pair is open, but I don’t know how to check this 
with just a tone tracer.

 

The alarm system just calls and plays a recorded voice announcement, so the 
VoIP part shouldn’t be tricky at all, not like FAX machines or alarms that use 
modems.  But it can’t even seize the line and call out.

 

   


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Re: [AFMUG] troubleshooting telco pairs

[Ken Hohhof]

Turns out Fluke makes a buttset with a TDR built in that can detect shorts and 
opens out to 3000 ft. so I’m working on getting my hands on one of those.  
Trying to find the smoking gun I can point at and tell the customer to get 
their premise wiring fixed.  I’m willing to “own the problem” up to the point 
where I can show it’s not my problem.

 

Still not sure what a TDR will show if the wiring is a star rather than a daisy 
chain.  Opens could look like bridge taps.

 

Which reminds me, back when I did dry pair DSL, I had a little bridge tap 
detector.  Oh wait, it was a load coil detector.  It was just a small battery 
powered box with an audio oscillator, and a frequency knob, and a meter.  You 
would sweep the frequency and each load coil would cause the meter to dip.  I 
wonder if I still have that somewhere.  Probably with my other relics of bygone 
technology, like my degaussing coil and my VHS tape rewinder.  Look, there’s 
one on eBay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/133724824625

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@go-mtc.com
Sent: Friday, June 7, 2024 10:18 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] troubleshooting telco pairs

 

I totally forgot about those.  Nice pots line stretchers.  

 

 

 

From: dmmoff...@gmail.com   

Sent: Friday, June 7, 2024 6:33 AM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] troubleshooting telco pairs

 

Yes that’s definitely a thing.  Did it with Sipura SPA ATA’s a long time ago.  
Those don’t exist anymore, so I don’t know what hardware to get today, but yes 
absolutely.

-Adam

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of TJ Trout
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2024 11:25 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] troubleshooting telco pairs

 

I think you can make a virtual pots line using an FXO and FXS adapters over ip

 

On Wed, Jun 5, 2024, 7:58 AM mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com> > 
wrote:

You can kinda sniff along the wire.  I would tie the pairs together at the far 
end and put the tone on it.  But the age old method is to cut it in the middle 
and see which direction the fault lies.  Ground each wire at the far end in 
sequence and identify the problem wire.  Keep cutting the bad half.  Binary 
chopping.  You might be able to put tone on one wire to ground and sniff, or 
open the jacked at a mid point etc.  Find someone with an old fashioned copper 
TDR.  Do you only have 2 wire available?  Does it read open circuit or does it 
have some leakage, shorts or grounds?

 

Best Regards,
Chuck McCown

McCown Technology Corporation 
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com  
www.microtrench.pro  
www.terabitnetworks.com  

 

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Wednesday, June 5, 2024 8:44 AM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] troubleshooting telco pairs

 

Oddly, the customer’s IT guy does have Ethernet connectivity to the barns via 
wireless bridges.  But they want their barn controllers to also dial a list of 
phone numbers using the FAX line in the office.

 

Either I’m doing something stupid, or the wire’s broken in which case it wasn’t 
working over the POTS line either.

 

Farms can be very old school.  Don’t want eFAX.  Don’t want voicemail sent to 
email, they still use *97.  Don’t want IVRs or autoattendants or dial by name 
directory.  Don’t want computer-phone integration or softphones.  And yet the 
owner’s son drives a Tesla.

 

If it’s really a broken wire, then it’s their problem to get it fixed, I just 
usually start from the assumption that it was working when I got there and I’m 
doing something stupid.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Daniel White
Sent: Wednesday, June 5, 2024 9:27 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] troubleshooting telco pairs

 

Can you just eliminate the wire and do a wireless PtP between the two 
locations?  Even if you find the issue with the wire, if it is that convoluted, 
it sounds like an ongoing problem potentially.

 


  


Daniel White
Co-Founder

phone: +1 (702) 470-2770
direct: +1 (702) 470-2766

 

Ken Hohhof

June 5, 2024 at 1:24 AM

Anybody remember your POTS troubleshooting skills?

 

I’m trying to get an alarm system to work from a VoIP ATA over about 1000 feet 
of convoluted wiring at a farm, a combination of overhead and buried.  I get 
tone on my tone tracer (Tempo brand) but 0 VDC on a buttset or voltmeter.  It’s 
too far for my Fluke cable tester which is meant for data cables.

 

I suspect one wire in the pair is open, but I don’t know how to check this with 
just a tone tracer.

 

The alarm system just calls and plays a recorded voice announcement, so the 
VoIP part shouldn’t be tricky at all, not like FAX machin

[AFMUG] Hey Bill Prince

[chuck]

Planning a 3 day largely unstructured excursion around the bay area with grand 
children and their DNA donors.

Day 1 Computer Museum, Winchester House then thinking of heading toward 
Monterey for the clam chowder samples and perhaps the aquarium.  This might 
stretch into the second day.  Is there an amusement part in Half Moon Bay?  I 
seem to remember some touristy stuff there.  

Then downtown SF, street cars, wharf with navy vessels and Bubba Gump shrimp, 
perhaps Alcatraz.  

Then ??? and home.  
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Hey Bill Prince

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

I'm not Bill, but I do have some recommendations based on my semi-frequent
visits...

First of all, don't forget to find a good,  authentic mission style burrito
somewhere along the way. If I find a specific place next weekend when I'm
down there,  I'll let you know.

Santa Cruz is where I always think when I think about Northern California
Beach with amusement park.

There's an old time coin operated arcade/museum near pier 49 in San
Francisco.   My visits to that part of the world almost always contains a
Boudin sourdough bread bowl with clam chowder in it from the Boudin bakery
and then a walk over to the arcade, and then a walk over to the end of pier
49 to see the sea lions.

Closer to the bay Bridge is the explotatorium which is a great science
museum on one of the other piers.  I usually try to arrange my visits for
the adult only evenings but that won't apply for you.

If I'm relying on public transportation (or just want the experience) you
can take a cable car from mission and market up over the hill and down to
basically the Boudin bakery.  Then there are old time trolleys which
service the route along the piers so I've been known to use the trolley to
go from pier 49 to the exploratorium.

Both myself and my wife were disappointed by the Monterey Bay aquarium,  as
in the one in the Salt Lake Valley might be better.   Different critters,
obviously and the Monterey bay aquarium has been around for quite some
time.   I'm sure this is because of how many aquariums and similar we've
visited and that our expectations were higher than reality because of the
reputation.   I'm not saying don't go,  just expect a smaller aquarium.

On Fri, Jun 7, 2024, 10:23 AM  wrote:

> Planning a 3 day largely unstructured excursion around the bay area with
> grand children and their DNA donors.
>
> Day 1 Computer Museum, Winchester House then thinking of heading toward
> Monterey for the clam chowder samples and perhaps the aquarium.  This might
> stretch into the second day.  Is there an amusement part in Half Moon Bay?
> I seem to remember some touristy stuff there.
>
> Then downtown SF, street cars, wharf with navy vessels and Bubba Gump
> shrimp, perhaps Alcatraz.
>
> Then ??? and home.
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Hey Bill Prince

[chuck]

Thanks.

Best Regards,
Chuck McCown

McCown Technology Corporation 
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench.pro
www.terabitnetworks.com

From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
Sent: Friday, June 7, 2024 11:58 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Hey Bill Prince

I'm not Bill, but I do have some recommendations based on my semi-frequent 
visits... 

First of all, don't forget to find a good,  authentic mission style burrito 
somewhere along the way. If I find a specific place next weekend when I'm down 
there,  I'll let you know. 

Santa Cruz is where I always think when I think about Northern California Beach 
with amusement park. 

There's an old time coin operated arcade/museum near pier 49 in San Francisco.  
 My visits to that part of the world almost always contains a Boudin sourdough 
bread bowl with clam chowder in it from the Boudin bakery and then a walk over 
to the arcade, and then a walk over to the end of pier 49 to see the sea lions. 
  

Closer to the bay Bridge is the explotatorium which is a great science museum 
on one of the other piers.  I usually try to arrange my visits for the adult 
only evenings but that won't apply for you. 

If I'm relying on public transportation (or just want the experience) you can 
take a cable car from mission and market up over the hill and down to basically 
the Boudin bakery.  Then there are old time trolleys which service the route 
along the piers so I've been known to use the trolley to go from pier 49 to the 
exploratorium.

Both myself and my wife were disappointed by the Monterey Bay aquarium,  as in 
the one in the Salt Lake Valley might be better.   Different critters, 
obviously and the Monterey bay aquarium has been around for quite some time.   
I'm sure this is because of how many aquariums and similar we've visited and 
that our expectations were higher than reality because of the reputation.   I'm 
not saying don't go,  just expect a smaller aquarium. 

On Fri, Jun 7, 2024, 10:23 AM  wrote:

  Planning a 3 day largely unstructured excursion around the bay area with 
grand children and their DNA donors.

  Day 1 Computer Museum, Winchester House then thinking of heading toward 
Monterey for the clam chowder samples and perhaps the aquarium.  This might 
stretch into the second day.  Is there an amusement part in Half Moon Bay?  I 
seem to remember some touristy stuff there.  

  Then downtown SF, street cars, wharf with navy vessels and Bubba Gump shrimp, 
perhaps Alcatraz.  

  Then ??? and home.  

  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




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Re: [AFMUG] Hey Bill Prince

[Ken Hohhof]

Is there a Ghirardelli factory or store?

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@go-mtc.com
Sent: Friday, June 7, 2024 1:14 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Hey Bill Prince

 

Thanks.

 

Best Regards,
Chuck McCown

McCown Technology Corporation 
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com  
www.microtrench.pro  
www.terabitnetworks.com  

 

From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 

Sent: Friday, June 7, 2024 11:58 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Hey Bill Prince

 

I'm not Bill, but I do have some recommendations based on my semi-frequent 
visits... 

 

First of all, don't forget to find a good,  authentic mission style burrito 
somewhere along the way. If I find a specific place next weekend when I'm down 
there,  I'll let you know. 

 

Santa Cruz is where I always think when I think about Northern California Beach 
with amusement park. 

 

There's an old time coin operated arcade/museum near pier 49 in San Francisco.  
 My visits to that part of the world almost always contains a Boudin sourdough 
bread bowl with clam chowder in it from the Boudin bakery and then a walk over 
to the arcade, and then a walk over to the end of pier 49 to see the sea lions. 
  

 

Closer to the bay Bridge is the explotatorium which is a great science museum 
on one of the other piers.  I usually try to arrange my visits for the adult 
only evenings but that won't apply for you. 

 

If I'm relying on public transportation (or just want the experience) you can 
take a cable car from mission and market up over the hill and down to basically 
the Boudin bakery.  Then there are old time trolleys which service the route 
along the piers so I've been known to use the trolley to go from pier 49 to the 
exploratorium.

 

Both myself and my wife were disappointed by the Monterey Bay aquarium,  as in 
the one in the Salt Lake Valley might be better.   Different critters, 
obviously and the Monterey bay aquarium has been around for quite some time.   
I'm sure this is because of how many aquariums and similar we've visited and 
that our expectations were higher than reality because of the reputation.   I'm 
not saying don't go,  just expect a smaller aquarium. 

 

On Fri, Jun 7, 2024, 10:23 AM mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com> > 
wrote:

Planning a 3 day largely unstructured excursion around the bay area with grand 
children and their DNA donors.

 

Day 1 Computer Museum, Winchester House then thinking of heading toward 
Monterey for the clam chowder samples and perhaps the aquarium.  This might 
stretch into the second day.  Is there an amusement part in Half Moon Bay?  I 
seem to remember some touristy stuff there.  

 

Then downtown SF, street cars, wharf with navy vessels and Bubba Gump shrimp, 
perhaps Alcatraz.  

 

Then ??? and home.  

 

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Re: [AFMUG] Hey Bill Prince

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Yes,  near the boudin bakery but west from there if i recall correctly.
Walkable depending on your definition of Walkable.

Not sure if I've ever successfully been to the tour.

On Fri, Jun 7, 2024, 12:33 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Is there a Ghirardelli factory or store?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@go-mtc.com
> *Sent:* Friday, June 7, 2024 1:14 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Hey Bill Prince
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Chuck McCown
>
> McCown Technology Corporation
> 8401 N Commerce Dr
> Lake Point, Utah 84074
> 801-250-9503 Office
> 435-830-4306 Cell
> www.mccowntech.com
> www.microtrench.pro
> www.terabitnetworks.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
>
> *Sent:* Friday, June 7, 2024 11:58 AM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Hey Bill Prince
>
>
>
> I'm not Bill, but I do have some recommendations based on my semi-frequent
> visits...
>
>
>
> First of all, don't forget to find a good,  authentic mission style
> burrito somewhere along the way. If I find a specific place next weekend
> when I'm down there,  I'll let you know.
>
>
>
> Santa Cruz is where I always think when I think about Northern California
> Beach with amusement park.
>
>
>
> There's an old time coin operated arcade/museum near pier 49 in San
> Francisco.   My visits to that part of the world almost always contains a
> Boudin sourdough bread bowl with clam chowder in it from the Boudin bakery
> and then a walk over to the arcade, and then a walk over to the end of pier
> 49 to see the sea lions.
>
>
>
> Closer to the bay Bridge is the explotatorium which is a great science
> museum on one of the other piers.  I usually try to arrange my visits for
> the adult only evenings but that won't apply for you.
>
>
>
> If I'm relying on public transportation (or just want the experience) you
> can take a cable car from mission and market up over the hill and down to
> basically the Boudin bakery.  Then there are old time trolleys which
> service the route along the piers so I've been known to use the trolley to
> go from pier 49 to the exploratorium.
>
>
>
> Both myself and my wife were disappointed by the Monterey Bay aquarium,
> as in the one in the Salt Lake Valley might be better.   Different
> critters, obviously and the Monterey bay aquarium has been around for quite
> some time.   I'm sure this is because of how many aquariums and similar
> we've visited and that our expectations were higher than reality because of
> the reputation.   I'm not saying don't go,  just expect a smaller aquarium.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 7, 2024, 10:23 AM  wrote:
>
> Planning a 3 day largely unstructured excursion around the bay area with
> grand children and their DNA donors.
>
>
>
> Day 1 Computer Museum, Winchester House then thinking of heading toward
> Monterey for the clam chowder samples and perhaps the aquarium.  This might
> stretch into the second day.  Is there an amusement part in Half Moon Bay?
> I seem to remember some touristy stuff there.
>
>
>
> Then downtown SF, street cars, wharf with navy vessels and Bubba Gump
> shrimp, perhaps Alcatraz.
>
>
>
> Then ??? and home.
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Hey Bill Prince

[Bill Prince]

There is a Ghirardelli factory/shop near fisherman's wharf; not more 
than a block or two walk IIRC (but it's been a while since I went there).


There's also fisherman's wharf and Pier 39 (not 49 if I remember 
correctly).


As mentioned there is the Exploratorium, Steinhart Aquarium, Cal 
Academy, and Muir Woods to name just a handful of the big ones, but 
there are probably a couple dozen in and around the city. If you haven't 
done it, taking one of the ferry rides around the bay is a real treat; 
especially for someone who has never been there.


In the south bay, there is Great America, the computer history museum, 
and Tech Interactive.


I do like the Monterey Bay Aquarium, but I haven't been there in a while.

bp


On 6/7/2024 11:32 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


Is there a Ghirardelli factory or store?

*From:*AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@go-mtc.com
*Sent:* Friday, June 7, 2024 1:14 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Hey Bill Prince

Thanks.

Best Regards,
Chuck McCown

McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com 
www.microtrench.pro 
www.terabitnetworks.com 

*From:*Forrest Christian (List Account)

*Sent:*Friday, June 7, 2024 11:58 AM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Hey Bill Prince

I'm not Bill, but I do have some recommendations based on my 
semi-frequent visits...


First of all, don't forget to find a good,  authentic mission style 
burrito somewhere along the way. If I find a specific place next 
weekend when I'm down there,  I'll let you know.


Santa Cruz is where I always think when I think about Northern 
California Beach with amusement park.


There's an old time coin operated arcade/museum near pier 49 in San 
Francisco.   My visits to that part of the world almost always 
contains a Boudin sourdough bread bowl with clam chowder in it from 
the Boudin bakery and then a walk over to the arcade, and then a walk 
over to the end of pier 49 to see the sea lions.


Closer to the bay Bridge is the explotatorium which is a great science 
museum on one of the other piers. I usually try to arrange my visits 
for the adult only evenings but that won't apply for you.


If I'm relying on public transportation (or just want the experience) 
you can take a cable car from mission and market up over the hill and 
down to basically the Boudin bakery.  Then there are old time trolleys 
which service the route along the piers so I've been known to use the 
trolley to go from pier 49 to the exploratorium.


Both myself and my wife were disappointed by the Monterey Bay 
aquarium,  as in the one in the Salt Lake Valley might be better.   
Different critters, obviously and the Monterey bay aquarium has been 
around for quite some time. I'm sure this is because of how many 
aquariums and similar we've visited and that our expectations were 
higher than reality because of the reputation.   I'm not saying don't 
go,  just expect a smaller aquarium.


On Fri, Jun 7, 2024, 10:23 AM  wrote:

Planning a 3 day largely unstructured excursion around the bay
area with grand children and their DNA donors.

Day 1 Computer Museum, Winchester House then thinking of heading
toward Monterey for the clam chowder samples and perhaps the
aquarium.  This might stretch into the second day.  Is there an
amusement part in Half Moon Bay?  I seem to remember some touristy
stuff there.

Then downtown SF, street cars, wharf with navy vessels and Bubba
Gump shrimp, perhaps Alcatraz.

Then ??? and home.

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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



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Re: [AFMUG] Hey Bill Prince

[Ken Hohhof]

I guess a block or two walk has to be taken in context in San Francisco.  I saw 
a post saying don’t believe people who say at least it will be downhill on the 
way back, that will be uphill too.

 

Now I’m having mental images of the car chase from Bullitt.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Friday, June 7, 2024 6:13 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Hey Bill Prince

 

There is a Ghirardelli factory/shop near fisherman's wharf; not more than a 
block or two walk IIRC (but it's been a while since I went there). 

There's also fisherman's wharf and Pier 39 (not 49 if I remember correctly). 

As mentioned there is the Exploratorium, Steinhart Aquarium, Cal Academy, and 
Muir Woods to name just a handful of the big ones, but there are probably a 
couple dozen in and around the city. If you haven't done it, taking one of the 
ferry rides around the bay is a real treat; especially for someone who has 
never been there.

In the south bay, there is Great America, the computer history museum, and Tech 
Interactive.

I do like the Monterey Bay Aquarium, but I haven't been there in a while.

bp


On 6/7/2024 11:32 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Is there a Ghirardelli factory or store?

 

From: AF    On Behalf 
Of ch...@go-mtc.com  
Sent: Friday, June 7, 2024 1:14 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group   
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Hey Bill Prince

 

Thanks.

 

Best Regards,
Chuck McCown

McCown Technology Corporation 
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com  
www.microtrench.pro  
www.terabitnetworks.com  

 

From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 

Sent: Friday, June 7, 2024 11:58 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Hey Bill Prince

 

I'm not Bill, but I do have some recommendations based on my semi-frequent 
visits... 

 

First of all, don't forget to find a good,  authentic mission style burrito 
somewhere along the way. If I find a specific place next weekend when I'm down 
there,  I'll let you know. 

 

Santa Cruz is where I always think when I think about Northern California Beach 
with amusement park. 

 

There's an old time coin operated arcade/museum near pier 49 in San Francisco.  
 My visits to that part of the world almost always contains a Boudin sourdough 
bread bowl with clam chowder in it from the Boudin bakery and then a walk over 
to the arcade, and then a walk over to the end of pier 49 to see the sea lions. 
  

 

Closer to the bay Bridge is the explotatorium which is a great science museum 
on one of the other piers.  I usually try to arrange my visits for the adult 
only evenings but that won't apply for you. 

 

If I'm relying on public transportation (or just want the experience) you can 
take a cable car from mission and market up over the hill and down to basically 
the Boudin bakery.  Then there are old time trolleys which service the route 
along the piers so I've been known to use the trolley to go from pier 49 to the 
exploratorium.

 

Both myself and my wife were disappointed by the Monterey Bay aquarium,  as in 
the one in the Salt Lake Valley might be better.   Different critters, 
obviously and the Monterey bay aquarium has been around for quite some time.   
I'm sure this is because of how many aquariums and similar we've visited and 
that our expectations were higher than reality because of the reputation.   I'm 
not saying don't go,  just expect a smaller aquarium. 

 

On Fri, Jun 7, 2024, 10:23 AM mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com> > 
wrote:

Planning a 3 day largely unstructured excursion around the bay area with grand 
children and their DNA donors.

 

Day 1 Computer Museum, Winchester House then thinking of heading toward 
Monterey for the clam chowder samples and perhaps the aquarium.  This might 
stretch into the second day.  Is there an amusement part in Half Moon Bay?  I 
seem to remember some touristy stuff there.  

 

Then downtown SF, street cars, wharf with navy vessels and Bubba Gump shrimp, 
perhaps Alcatraz.  

 

Then ??? and home.  

 

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  _  


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Re: [AFMUG] Hey Bill Prince

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Sorry,  yes 39, not 49.

On Fri, Jun 7, 2024, 5:14 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> There is a Ghirardelli factory/shop near fisherman's wharf; not more than
> a block or two walk IIRC (but it's been a while since I went there).
>
> There's also fisherman's wharf and Pier 39 (not 49 if I remember
> correctly).
>
> As mentioned there is the Exploratorium, Steinhart Aquarium, Cal Academy,
> and Muir Woods to name just a handful of the big ones, but there are
> probably a couple dozen in and around the city. If you haven't done it,
> taking one of the ferry rides around the bay is a real treat; especially
> for someone who has never been there.
>
> In the south bay, there is Great America, the computer history museum, and
> Tech Interactive.
>
> I do like the Monterey Bay Aquarium, but I haven't been there in a while.
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 6/7/2024 11:32 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> Is there a Ghirardelli factory or store?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *ch...@go-mtc.com
> *Sent:* Friday, June 7, 2024 1:14 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Hey Bill Prince
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Chuck McCown
>
> McCown Technology Corporation
> 8401 N Commerce Dr
> Lake Point, Utah 84074
> 801-250-9503 Office
> 435-830-4306 Cell
> www.mccowntech.com
> www.microtrench.pro
> www.terabitnetworks.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
>
> *Sent:* Friday, June 7, 2024 11:58 AM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Hey Bill Prince
>
>
>
> I'm not Bill, but I do have some recommendations based on my semi-frequent
> visits...
>
>
>
> First of all, don't forget to find a good,  authentic mission style
> burrito somewhere along the way. If I find a specific place next weekend
> when I'm down there,  I'll let you know.
>
>
>
> Santa Cruz is where I always think when I think about Northern California
> Beach with amusement park.
>
>
>
> There's an old time coin operated arcade/museum near pier 49 in San
> Francisco.   My visits to that part of the world almost always contains a
> Boudin sourdough bread bowl with clam chowder in it from the Boudin bakery
> and then a walk over to the arcade, and then a walk over to the end of pier
> 49 to see the sea lions.
>
>
>
> Closer to the bay Bridge is the explotatorium which is a great science
> museum on one of the other piers.  I usually try to arrange my visits for
> the adult only evenings but that won't apply for you.
>
>
>
> If I'm relying on public transportation (or just want the experience) you
> can take a cable car from mission and market up over the hill and down to
> basically the Boudin bakery.  Then there are old time trolleys which
> service the route along the piers so I've been known to use the trolley to
> go from pier 49 to the exploratorium.
>
>
>
> Both myself and my wife were disappointed by the Monterey Bay aquarium,
> as in the one in the Salt Lake Valley might be better.   Different
> critters, obviously and the Monterey bay aquarium has been around for quite
> some time.   I'm sure this is because of how many aquariums and similar
> we've visited and that our expectations were higher than reality because of
> the reputation.   I'm not saying don't go,  just expect a smaller aquarium.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 7, 2024, 10:23 AM  wrote:
>
> Planning a 3 day largely unstructured excursion around the bay area with
> grand children and their DNA donors.
>
>
>
> Day 1 Computer Museum, Winchester House then thinking of heading toward
> Monterey for the clam chowder samples and perhaps the aquarium.  This might
> stretch into the second day.  Is there an amusement part in Half Moon Bay?
> I seem to remember some touristy stuff there.
>
>
>
> Then downtown SF, street cars, wharf with navy vessels and Bubba Gump
> shrimp, perhaps Alcatraz.
>
>
>
> Then ??? and home.
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Hey Bill Prince

[Bill Prince]

Well, the Ghirardelli factory is uphill, but it's really not far. But 
the uphill goes both ways.



bp


On 6/7/2024 4:33 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


I guess a block or two walk has to be taken in context in San 
Francisco.  I saw a post saying don’t believe people who say at least 
it will be downhill on the way back, that will be uphill too.


Now I’m having mental images of the car chase from Bullitt.

*From:*AF  *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
*Sent:* Friday, June 7, 2024 6:13 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Hey Bill Prince

There is a Ghirardelli factory/shop near fisherman's wharf; not more 
than a block or two walk IIRC (but it's been a while since I went there).


There's also fisherman's wharf and Pier 39 (not 49 if I remember 
correctly).


As mentioned there is the Exploratorium, Steinhart Aquarium, Cal 
Academy, and Muir Woods to name just a handful of the big ones, but 
there are probably a couple dozen in and around the city. If you 
haven't done it, taking one of the ferry rides around the bay is a 
real treat; especially for someone who has never been there.


In the south bay, there is Great America, the computer history museum, 
and Tech Interactive.


I do like the Monterey Bay Aquarium, but I haven't been there in a while.

bp


On 6/7/2024 11:32 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Is there a Ghirardelli factory or store?

*From:*AF 
 *On Behalf Of *ch...@go-mtc.com
*Sent:* Friday, June 7, 2024 1:14 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Hey Bill Prince

Thanks.

Best Regards,
Chuck McCown

McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com 
www.microtrench.pro 
www.terabitnetworks.com 

*From:*Forrest Christian (List Account)

*Sent:*Friday, June 7, 2024 11:58 AM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Hey Bill Prince

I'm not Bill, but I do have some recommendations based on my
semi-frequent visits...

First of all, don't forget to find a good,  authentic mission
style burrito somewhere along the way. If I find a specific place
next weekend when I'm down there,  I'll let you know.

Santa Cruz is where I always think when I think about Northern
California Beach with amusement park.

There's an old time coin operated arcade/museum near pier 49 in
San Francisco.   My visits to that part of the world almost always
contains a Boudin sourdough bread bowl with clam chowder in it
from the Boudin bakery and then a walk over to the arcade, and
then a walk over to the end of pier 49 to see the sea lions.

Closer to the bay Bridge is the explotatorium which is a great
science museum on one of the other piers.  I usually try to
arrange my visits for the adult only evenings but that won't apply
for you.

If I'm relying on public transportation (or just want the
experience) you can take a cable car from mission and market up
over the hill and down to basically the Boudin bakery.  Then there
are old time trolleys which service the route along the piers so
I've been known to use the trolley to go from pier 49 to the
exploratorium.

Both myself and my wife were disappointed by the Monterey Bay
aquarium,  as in the one in the Salt Lake Valley might be
better.   Different critters, obviously and the Monterey bay
aquarium has been around for quite some time.   I'm sure this is
because of how many aquariums and similar we've visited and that
our expectations were higher than reality because of the
reputation.   I'm not saying don't go,  just expect a smaller
aquarium.

On Fri, Jun 7, 2024, 10:23 AM  wrote:

Planning a 3 day largely unstructured excursion around the bay
area with grand children and their DNA donors.

Day 1 Computer Museum, Winchester House then thinking of
heading toward Monterey for the clam chowder samples and
perhaps the aquarium.  This might stretch into the second
day.  Is there an amusement part in Half Moon Bay?  I seem to
remember some touristy stuff there.

Then downtown SF, street cars, wharf with navy vessels and
Bubba Gump shrimp, perhaps Alcatraz.

Then ??? and home.

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Re: [AFMUG] Hey Bill Prince

[John Osmon]

On Fri, Jun 07, 2024 at 10:22:02AM -0600, ch...@go-mtc.com wrote:
> Planning a 3 day largely unstructured excursion around the bay area
> with grand children and their DNA donors.

The Bay Model
   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Army_Corps_of_Engineers_Bay_Model




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Re: [AFMUG] Hey Bill Prince

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

And it looks like I said "mission and market" instead of "powell and
market" for where the cable cars start.   Mission and market parallel each
other through downtown.  Powell is one of the cross streets that go up over
the hill

I'm sure I probably missed something else too been one of those weeks.
Thankfully it seems over ;)

On Fri, Jun 7, 2024 at 5:34 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> Sorry,  yes 39, not 49.
>
> On Fri, Jun 7, 2024, 5:14 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> There is a Ghirardelli factory/shop near fisherman's wharf; not more than
>> a block or two walk IIRC (but it's been a while since I went there).
>>
>> There's also fisherman's wharf and Pier 39 (not 49 if I remember
>> correctly).
>>
>> As mentioned there is the Exploratorium, Steinhart Aquarium, Cal Academy,
>> and Muir Woods to name just a handful of the big ones, but there are
>> probably a couple dozen in and around the city. If you haven't done it,
>> taking one of the ferry rides around the bay is a real treat; especially
>> for someone who has never been there.
>>
>> In the south bay, there is Great America, the computer history museum,
>> and Tech Interactive.
>>
>> I do like the Monterey Bay Aquarium, but I haven't been there in a while.
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 6/7/2024 11:32 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>> Is there a Ghirardelli factory or store?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF   *On
>> Behalf Of *ch...@go-mtc.com
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 7, 2024 1:14 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Hey Bill Prince
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Chuck McCown
>>
>> McCown Technology Corporation
>> 8401 N Commerce Dr
>> Lake Point, Utah 84074
>> 801-250-9503 Office
>> 435-830-4306 Cell
>> www.mccowntech.com
>> www.microtrench.pro
>> www.terabitnetworks.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
>>
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 7, 2024 11:58 AM
>>
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Hey Bill Prince
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm not Bill, but I do have some recommendations based on my
>> semi-frequent visits...
>>
>>
>>
>> First of all, don't forget to find a good,  authentic mission style
>> burrito somewhere along the way. If I find a specific place next weekend
>> when I'm down there,  I'll let you know.
>>
>>
>>
>> Santa Cruz is where I always think when I think about Northern California
>> Beach with amusement park.
>>
>>
>>
>> There's an old time coin operated arcade/museum near pier 49 in San
>> Francisco.   My visits to that part of the world almost always contains a
>> Boudin sourdough bread bowl with clam chowder in it from the Boudin bakery
>> and then a walk over to the arcade, and then a walk over to the end of pier
>> 49 to see the sea lions.
>>
>>
>>
>> Closer to the bay Bridge is the explotatorium which is a great science
>> museum on one of the other piers.  I usually try to arrange my visits for
>> the adult only evenings but that won't apply for you.
>>
>>
>>
>> If I'm relying on public transportation (or just want the experience) you
>> can take a cable car from mission and market up over the hill and down to
>> basically the Boudin bakery.  Then there are old time trolleys which
>> service the route along the piers so I've been known to use the trolley to
>> go from pier 49 to the exploratorium.
>>
>>
>>
>> Both myself and my wife were disappointed by the Monterey Bay aquarium,
>> as in the one in the Salt Lake Valley might be better.   Different
>> critters, obviously and the Monterey bay aquarium has been around for quite
>> some time.   I'm sure this is because of how many aquariums and similar
>> we've visited and that our expectations were higher than reality because of
>> the reputation.   I'm not saying don't go,  just expect a smaller aquarium.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 7, 2024, 10:23 AM  wrote:
>>
>> Planning a 3 day largely unstructured excursion around the bay area with
>> grand children and their DNA donors.
>>
>>
>>
>> Day 1 Computer Museum, Winchester House then thinking of heading toward
>> Monterey for the clam chowder samples and perhaps the aquarium.  This might
>> stretch into the second day.  Is there an amusement part in Half Moon Bay?
>> I seem to remember some touristy stuff there.
>>
>>
>>
>> Then downtown SF, street cars, wharf with navy vessels and Bubba Gump
>> shrimp, perhaps Alcatraz.
>>
>>
>>
>> Then ??? and home.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>

-- 
- Forrest
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