Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude
256x256 MIMO to many customers at once is kind of a big deal. Fiber is just starting to get into more than one spatial stream. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Steve Jones" To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2023 12:04:40 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude See, I look at it the opposite. Physics may limit any new tech, but really we havent seen any wireless advances, just wider bandwidth, higher modulation, more subcarriers. To me, a true advancement is an improvement without major cost. Everyone of those improvements tends to come at an SNR cost at minimum and SNR is something we are already losing. Sure theres improved SNR with moar power, but thats just diminishing the aggregate to improve the minute On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 10:52 AM Chuck McCown via AF < af@af.afmug.com > wrote: I am impressed at the advancements with wireless over the years. I would have never expected to be able to deliver PMP 100 Mbps with any quality at all. And we all know that 100 mbps will do almost everything anyone would ever need, still we have fiber customers wanting 1. 2.5 and 10 gig... And to think that we used to be so happy to advertise 10 Mbps on Canopy. That burst mode was the bomb until Netflix arrived. -Original Message- From: dmmoff...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2023 7:37 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude Almost sounds like you're not serious. Fiber really is the future. How much wireless bandwidth is there to work with? If we kicked out all incumbent microwave users and made it all available for WISPs there'd be what, 50 GHz? More realistically 5-10GHz that you could really use for the last mileassuming they'd allocate all of it for a WISP. Within the reality of the regulatory framework we've got more like 1-2GHz available. Bandwidth of a single mode fiber is ~50 Thz. Even the most optimistic estimate for wireless doesn't compare. 100Gbps ethernet on fiber uses only a tiny fraction of the possible bandwidth and very primitive modulation. It's not because you couldn't do 1024QAM with a laser, it's just that right now we don't need to. Theoretically pushing Shannon-Hartley to the limits you could run 1.2 petabits per second on a single mode fiber. That's a million gigabits. Clearly there are badly implemented networks, but that just means a dumb person did it. If you're not branching out into fiber you'll eventually be left behind. IMO, the only debatable part is how many years that'll take. -Adam -Original Message- From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2023 8:57 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com >; Jan-GAMs < j.vank...@grnacres.net > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude But... But... fiber is the future. On 3/7/23 4:29 PM, Jan-GAMs wrote: > Our fiber competitor is using fiber to connect to a DSL connection. > Those customers who left our wisp for them came back within a few days. > > On 3/6/23 12:55, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: >> Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area. >> They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a >> price lock for three years. >> Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want >> to reactivate it. >> The disconnect was Friday. The reconnect was this morning... >> I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I >> gotta tell you, you never get service calls with fiber. >> Best Regards, >> Chuck McCown >> >> McCown Technology Corporation >> 8401 N Commerce Dr >> Lake Point, Utah 84074 >> 801-250-9503 Office >> 435-830-4306 Cell >> www.mccowntech.com >> www.microtrench.pro >> www.terabitnetworks.com >> > -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude
I know a WISP that picks up MetroNet (large FTTx only) customers all of the time. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Chuck McCown via AF" To: af@af.afmug.com Cc: "Chuck McCown" Sent: Monday, March 6, 2023 2:55:19 PM Subject: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area. They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a price lock for three years. Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want to reactivate it. The disconnect was Friday. The reconnect was this morning... I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I gotta tell you, you never get service calls with fiber. Best Regards, Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 Office 435-830-4306 Cell www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench.pro www.terabitnetworks.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude
See, I look at it the opposite. Physics may limit any new tech, but really we havent seen any wireless advances, just wider bandwidth, higher modulation, more subcarriers. To me, a true advancement is an improvement without major cost. Everyone of those improvements tends to come at an SNR cost at minimum and SNR is something we are already losing. Sure theres improved SNR with moar power, but thats just diminishing the aggregate to improve the minute On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 10:52 AM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: > I am impressed at the advancements with wireless over the years. I would > have never expected to be able to deliver PMP 100 Mbps with any quality at > all. And we all know that 100 mbps will do almost everything anyone would > ever need, still we have fiber customers wanting 1. 2.5 and 10 gig... > > And to think that we used to be so happy to advertise 10 Mbps on Canopy. > That burst mode was the bomb until Netflix arrived. > > -Original Message- > From: dmmoff...@gmail.com > Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2023 7:37 AM > To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude > > Almost sounds like you're not serious. Fiber really is the future. > > How much wireless bandwidth is there to work with? If we kicked out all > incumbent microwave users and made it all available for WISPs there'd be > what, 50 GHz? More realistically 5-10GHz that you could really use for > the > last mileassuming they'd allocate all of it for a WISP. Within the > reality of the regulatory framework we've got more like 1-2GHz available. > > Bandwidth of a single mode fiber is ~50 Thz. Even the most optimistic > estimate for wireless doesn't compare. > > 100Gbps ethernet on fiber uses only a tiny fraction of the possible > bandwidth and very primitive modulation. It's not because you couldn't do > 1024QAM with a laser, it's just that right now we don't need to. > Theoretically pushing Shannon-Hartley to the limits you could run 1.2 > petabits per second on a single mode fiber. That's a million gigabits. > > Clearly there are badly implemented networks, but that just means a dumb > person did it. If you're not branching out into fiber you'll eventually > be > left behind. IMO, the only debatable part is how many years that'll take. > > -Adam > > > -Original Message- > From: AF On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes > Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2023 8:57 AM > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Jan-GAMs > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude > > But... But... fiber is the future. > > On 3/7/23 4:29 PM, Jan-GAMs wrote: > > Our fiber competitor is using fiber to connect to a DSL connection. > > Those customers who left our wisp for them came back within a few days. > > > > On 3/6/23 12:55, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: > >> Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area. > >> They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a > >> price lock for three years. > >> Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want > >> to reactivate it. > >> The disconnect was Friday. The reconnect was this morning... > >> I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I > >> gotta tell you, you never get service calls with fiber. > >> Best Regards, > >> Chuck McCown > >> > >> McCown Technology Corporation > >> 8401 N Commerce Dr > >> Lake Point, Utah 84074 > >> 801-250-9503 Office > >> 435-830-4306 Cell > >> www.mccowntech.com > >> www.microtrench.pro > >> www.terabitnetworks.com > >> > > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude
Absolutely. To get that high performance though we're putting more processing power up onto the tower. Which means more wattage needed than PoE can do, so now you need fiber and power cables up the tower. You still might need the cat5 for timing or management or what-not depending on the platform. So now we're looking at bigger conduit to carry 3x as many cables up. Bigger power supply and battery backup at the bottom. New router/switch to carry the higher capacity. Upgrading from Canopy to the 430, 320, or 450 was basically just swapping one thing on the tower. Cambium450 to 450m or similar is more or less a complete do-over. We were talking about minimum $50,000 per tower. Our corporate overlords said they'd rather put that money into fiber. I saw no reason to argue the point. But yeah, in the right market, someplace where fiber is still a long way off you could do a 100% respectable job with wireless. -Original Message- From: AF On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2023 11:52 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Cc: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude I am impressed at the advancements with wireless over the years. I would have never expected to be able to deliver PMP 100 Mbps with any quality at all. And we all know that 100 mbps will do almost everything anyone would ever need, still we have fiber customers wanting 1. 2.5 and 10 gig... And to think that we used to be so happy to advertise 10 Mbps on Canopy. That burst mode was the bomb until Netflix arrived. -Original Message- From: dmmoff...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2023 7:37 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude Almost sounds like you're not serious. Fiber really is the future. How much wireless bandwidth is there to work with? If we kicked out all incumbent microwave users and made it all available for WISPs there'd be what, 50 GHz? More realistically 5-10GHz that you could really use for the last mileassuming they'd allocate all of it for a WISP. Within the reality of the regulatory framework we've got more like 1-2GHz available. Bandwidth of a single mode fiber is ~50 Thz. Even the most optimistic estimate for wireless doesn't compare. 100Gbps ethernet on fiber uses only a tiny fraction of the possible bandwidth and very primitive modulation. It's not because you couldn't do 1024QAM with a laser, it's just that right now we don't need to. Theoretically pushing Shannon-Hartley to the limits you could run 1.2 petabits per second on a single mode fiber. That's a million gigabits. Clearly there are badly implemented networks, but that just means a dumb person did it. If you're not branching out into fiber you'll eventually be left behind. IMO, the only debatable part is how many years that'll take. -Adam -Original Message- From: AF On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2023 8:57 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Jan-GAMs Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude But... But... fiber is the future. On 3/7/23 4:29 PM, Jan-GAMs wrote: > Our fiber competitor is using fiber to connect to a DSL connection. > Those customers who left our wisp for them came back within a few days. > > On 3/6/23 12:55, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: >> Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area. >> They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a >> price lock for three years. >> Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want >> to reactivate it. >> The disconnect was Friday. The reconnect was this morning... >> I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I >> gotta tell you, you never get service calls with fiber. >> Best Regards, >> Chuck McCown >> >> McCown Technology Corporation >> 8401 N Commerce Dr >> Lake Point, Utah 84074 >> 801-250-9503 Office >> 435-830-4306 Cell >> www.mccowntech.com >> www.microtrench.pro >> www.terabitnetworks.com >> > -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude
The biggest issue with wireless IMO is the continuously rising noise floor, more so than the capacity (for now at least). At some point it is going to be unusable for links of any decent range - everything will need to be microcell. Fiber does not have this problem. On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 10:52 AM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: > I am impressed at the advancements with wireless over the years. I would > have never expected to be able to deliver PMP 100 Mbps with any quality at > all. And we all know that 100 mbps will do almost everything anyone would > ever need, still we have fiber customers wanting 1. 2.5 and 10 gig... > > And to think that we used to be so happy to advertise 10 Mbps on Canopy. > That burst mode was the bomb until Netflix arrived. > > -Original Message- > From: dmmoff...@gmail.com > Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2023 7:37 AM > To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude > > Almost sounds like you're not serious. Fiber really is the future. > > How much wireless bandwidth is there to work with? If we kicked out all > incumbent microwave users and made it all available for WISPs there'd be > what, 50 GHz? More realistically 5-10GHz that you could really use for > the > last mileassuming they'd allocate all of it for a WISP. Within the > reality of the regulatory framework we've got more like 1-2GHz available. > > Bandwidth of a single mode fiber is ~50 Thz. Even the most optimistic > estimate for wireless doesn't compare. > > 100Gbps ethernet on fiber uses only a tiny fraction of the possible > bandwidth and very primitive modulation. It's not because you couldn't do > 1024QAM with a laser, it's just that right now we don't need to. > Theoretically pushing Shannon-Hartley to the limits you could run 1.2 > petabits per second on a single mode fiber. That's a million gigabits. > > Clearly there are badly implemented networks, but that just means a dumb > person did it. If you're not branching out into fiber you'll eventually > be > left behind. IMO, the only debatable part is how many years that'll take. > > -Adam > > > -Original Message- > From: AF On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes > Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2023 8:57 AM > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Jan-GAMs > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude > > But... But... fiber is the future. > > On 3/7/23 4:29 PM, Jan-GAMs wrote: > > Our fiber competitor is using fiber to connect to a DSL connection. > > Those customers who left our wisp for them came back within a few days. > > > > On 3/6/23 12:55, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: > >> Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area. > >> They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a > >> price lock for three years. > >> Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want > >> to reactivate it. > >> The disconnect was Friday. The reconnect was this morning... > >> I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I > >> gotta tell you, you never get service calls with fiber. > >> Best Regards, > >> Chuck McCown > >> > >> McCown Technology Corporation > >> 8401 N Commerce Dr > >> Lake Point, Utah 84074 > >> 801-250-9503 Office > >> 435-830-4306 Cell > >> www.mccowntech.com > >> www.microtrench.pro > >> www.terabitnetworks.com > >> > > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude
I am impressed at the advancements with wireless over the years. I would have never expected to be able to deliver PMP 100 Mbps with any quality at all. And we all know that 100 mbps will do almost everything anyone would ever need, still we have fiber customers wanting 1. 2.5 and 10 gig... And to think that we used to be so happy to advertise 10 Mbps on Canopy. That burst mode was the bomb until Netflix arrived. -Original Message- From: dmmoff...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2023 7:37 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude Almost sounds like you're not serious. Fiber really is the future. How much wireless bandwidth is there to work with? If we kicked out all incumbent microwave users and made it all available for WISPs there'd be what, 50 GHz? More realistically 5-10GHz that you could really use for the last mileassuming they'd allocate all of it for a WISP. Within the reality of the regulatory framework we've got more like 1-2GHz available. Bandwidth of a single mode fiber is ~50 Thz. Even the most optimistic estimate for wireless doesn't compare. 100Gbps ethernet on fiber uses only a tiny fraction of the possible bandwidth and very primitive modulation. It's not because you couldn't do 1024QAM with a laser, it's just that right now we don't need to. Theoretically pushing Shannon-Hartley to the limits you could run 1.2 petabits per second on a single mode fiber. That's a million gigabits. Clearly there are badly implemented networks, but that just means a dumb person did it. If you're not branching out into fiber you'll eventually be left behind. IMO, the only debatable part is how many years that'll take. -Adam -Original Message- From: AF On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2023 8:57 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Jan-GAMs Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude But... But... fiber is the future. On 3/7/23 4:29 PM, Jan-GAMs wrote: Our fiber competitor is using fiber to connect to a DSL connection. Those customers who left our wisp for them came back within a few days. On 3/6/23 12:55, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area. They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a price lock for three years. Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want to reactivate it. The disconnect was Friday. The reconnect was this morning... I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I gotta tell you, you never get service calls with fiber. Best Regards, Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 Office 435-830-4306 Cell www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench.pro www.terabitnetworks.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude
Almost sounds like you're not serious. Fiber really is the future. How much wireless bandwidth is there to work with? If we kicked out all incumbent microwave users and made it all available for WISPs there'd be what, 50 GHz? More realistically 5-10GHz that you could really use for the last mileassuming they'd allocate all of it for a WISP. Within the reality of the regulatory framework we've got more like 1-2GHz available. Bandwidth of a single mode fiber is ~50 Thz. Even the most optimistic estimate for wireless doesn't compare. 100Gbps ethernet on fiber uses only a tiny fraction of the possible bandwidth and very primitive modulation. It's not because you couldn't do 1024QAM with a laser, it's just that right now we don't need to. Theoretically pushing Shannon-Hartley to the limits you could run 1.2 petabits per second on a single mode fiber. That's a million gigabits. Clearly there are badly implemented networks, but that just means a dumb person did it. If you're not branching out into fiber you'll eventually be left behind. IMO, the only debatable part is how many years that'll take. -Adam -Original Message- From: AF On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2023 8:57 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Jan-GAMs Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude But... But... fiber is the future. On 3/7/23 4:29 PM, Jan-GAMs wrote: > Our fiber competitor is using fiber to connect to a DSL connection. > Those customers who left our wisp for them came back within a few days. > > On 3/6/23 12:55, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: >> Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area. >> They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a >> price lock for three years. >> Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want >> to reactivate it. >> The disconnect was Friday. The reconnect was this morning... >> I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I >> gotta tell you, you never get service calls with fiber. >> Best Regards, >> Chuck McCown >> >> McCown Technology Corporation >> 8401 N Commerce Dr >> Lake Point, Utah 84074 >> 801-250-9503 Office >> 435-830-4306 Cell >> www.mccowntech.com >> www.microtrench.pro >> www.terabitnetworks.com >> > -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude
I cringe when i have these people approach me. So very certain of the easy money. not aware of the market saturation. Very much not aware of the time commitment. After all, WiFi just works. On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 8:16 AM Matt Hoppes < mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote: > I'm amazed how many folks I've seen over the years think running a WISP > was so easy a caveman could do it and I had to sit them down and talk > them out of it for their good and my good. > > On 3/7/23 6:06 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: > > Well everybuddy knows that you can't compete with fiber, right?! > > > > (this guy (the WISP) is a coder/IT guy that decided becoming a WISP is > > easy. Heavy advertising as FOTA. I think he is learning that pesky RF > > stuff might indeed be important) > > > > -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes > > Sent: Tuesday, March 7, 2023 1:27 PM > > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > > Cc: Chuck McCown > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude > > > > Why did they come back? A properly running WISP should be as stable as > > a fiber connection. > > > > We rarely get service calls on wireless -- usually it's something > > related to the customer's router or interference they have caused > > that doesn't change with fiber. > > > > On 3/6/23 3:55 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: > >> Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area. > >> They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a > >> price lock for three years. > >> Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want > >> to reactivate it. > >> The disconnect was Friday. The reconnect was this morning... > >> I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I > >> gotta tell you, you never get service calls with fiber. > >> Best Regards, > >> Chuck McCown > >> > >> McCown Technology Corporation > >> 8401 N Commerce Dr > >> Lake Point, Utah 84074 > >> 801-250-9503 Office > >> 435-830-4306 Cell > >> www.mccowntech.com > >> www.microtrench.pro > >> www.terabitnetworks.com > >> > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude
That’s pretty amazing. From: AF On Behalf Of Jan-GAMs Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2023 4:29 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude Our fiber competitor is using fiber to connect to a DSL connection. Those customers who left our wisp for them came back within a few days. On 3/6/23 12:55, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area. They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a price lock for three years. Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want to reactivate it. The disconnect was Friday. The reconnect was this morning... I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I gotta tell you, you never get service calls with fiber. Best Regards, Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 Office 435-830-4306 Cell www.mccowntech.com <http://www.mccowntech.com> www.microtrench.pro <http://www.microtrench.pro> www.terabitnetworks.com <http://www.terabitnetworks.com> -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude
I'm amazed how many folks I've seen over the years think running a WISP was so easy a caveman could do it and I had to sit them down and talk them out of it for their good and my good. On 3/7/23 6:06 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: Well everybuddy knows that you can't compete with fiber, right?! (this guy (the WISP) is a coder/IT guy that decided becoming a WISP is easy. Heavy advertising as FOTA. I think he is learning that pesky RF stuff might indeed be important) -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes Sent: Tuesday, March 7, 2023 1:27 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Cc: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude Why did they come back? A properly running WISP should be as stable as a fiber connection. We rarely get service calls on wireless -- usually it's something related to the customer's router or interference they have caused that doesn't change with fiber. On 3/6/23 3:55 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area. They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a price lock for three years. Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want to reactivate it. The disconnect was Friday. The reconnect was this morning... I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I gotta tell you, you never get service calls with fiber. Best Regards, Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 Office 435-830-4306 Cell www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench.pro www.terabitnetworks.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude
But... But... fiber is the future. On 3/7/23 4:29 PM, Jan-GAMs wrote: Our fiber competitor is using fiber to connect to a DSL connection. Those customers who left our wisp for them came back within a few days. On 3/6/23 12:55, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area. They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a price lock for three years. Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want to reactivate it. The disconnect was Friday. The reconnect was this morning... I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I gotta tell you, you never get service calls with fiber. Best Regards, Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 Office 435-830-4306 Cell www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench.pro www.terabitnetworks.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude
I mean this is true... "new wisp" doesn't mean a quality new WISP. On 3/7/23 4:06 PM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote: Well he did say "new wisp" Maybe they put a DD-WRT router in Tupperware on the roof with a Pringles can yagi. Or they think it's smart to run wifi with a WDS mesh. Every customer is a POP and grows my networkso easy! Or they said "up to 200Mb" and actually delivered 5Mb Or the whole thing runs on a cable modem in his mom's basement or any number of other dumb ideas people thought were smart when they too were a "new wisp". I bet we can all think up a huge list of dumb things we've seen, heard, or maybe done ourselves. -Original Message- From: AF On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2023 3:27 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude Why did they come back? A properly running WISP should be as stable as a fiber connection. We rarely get service calls on wireless -- usually it's something related to the customer's router or interference they have caused that doesn't change with fiber. On 3/6/23 3:55 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area. They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a price lock for three years. Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want to reactivate it. The disconnect was Friday. The reconnect was this morning... I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I gotta tell you, you never get service calls with fiber. Best Regards, Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 Office 435-830-4306 Cell www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench.pro www.terabitnetworks.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude
Put that in te Karen file. bp On 3/7/2023 9:15 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: Yeah, but complainers like that deserve to go to the minor leagues. *From:* Josh Luthman *Sent:* Tuesday, March 7, 2023 9:20 AM *To:* Chuck McCown *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude That's lost revenue!!! On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 6:18 PM Chuck McCown wrote: We refer those guys to the wisp. *From:* Josh Luthman *Sent:* Monday, March 6, 2023 3:07 PM *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group *Cc:* Chuck McCown *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude Fiber customer called today. They want to paint the walls but couldn't remove the wall plate. They didn't understand that they could unplug the wall wart to remove the wall plate. How does fiber fix these calls? On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 3:57 PM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area. They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a price lock for three years. Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want to reactivate it. The disconnect was Friday. The reconnect was this morning... I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I gotta tell you, you never get service calls with fiber. Best Regards, Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 Office 435-830-4306 Cell www.mccowntech.com <http://www.mccowntech.com> www.microtrench.pro <http://www.microtrench.pro> www.terabitnetworks.com <http://www.terabitnetworks.com> -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude
On 3/7/23 3:06 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: Well everybuddy knows that you can't compete with fiber, right?! (this guy (the WISP) is a coder/IT guy that decided becoming a WISP is easy. Heavy advertising as FOTA. I think he is learning that pesky RF stuff might indeed be important) Once someone contacted me about setting up a WISP in a planned community. Their plan was "we can get all the homes (hundreds) on a single ubnt rocket with an omni in the middle". I just said sure you do that and never talked to them again. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude
Well everybuddy knows that you can't compete with fiber, right?! (this guy (the WISP) is a coder/IT guy that decided becoming a WISP is easy. Heavy advertising as FOTA. I think he is learning that pesky RF stuff might indeed be important) -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes Sent: Tuesday, March 7, 2023 1:27 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Cc: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude Why did they come back? A properly running WISP should be as stable as a fiber connection. We rarely get service calls on wireless -- usually it's something related to the customer's router or interference they have caused that doesn't change with fiber. On 3/6/23 3:55 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area. They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a price lock for three years. Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want to reactivate it. The disconnect was Friday. The reconnect was this morning... I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I gotta tell you, you never get service calls with fiber. Best Regards, Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 Office 435-830-4306 Cell www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench.pro www.terabitnetworks.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude
Our fiber competitor is using fiber to connect to a DSL connection. Those customers who left our wisp for them came back within a few days. On 3/6/23 12:55, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area. They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a price lock for three years. Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want to reactivate it. The disconnect was Friday. The reconnect was this morning... I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I gotta tell you, you never get service calls with fiber. Best Regards, Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 Office 435-830-4306 Cell www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench.pro www.terabitnetworks.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude
Well he did say "new wisp" Maybe they put a DD-WRT router in Tupperware on the roof with a Pringles can yagi. Or they think it's smart to run wifi with a WDS mesh. Every customer is a POP and grows my networkso easy! Or they said "up to 200Mb" and actually delivered 5Mb Or the whole thing runs on a cable modem in his mom's basement or any number of other dumb ideas people thought were smart when they too were a "new wisp". I bet we can all think up a huge list of dumb things we've seen, heard, or maybe done ourselves. -Original Message- From: AF On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2023 3:27 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude Why did they come back? A properly running WISP should be as stable as a fiber connection. We rarely get service calls on wireless -- usually it's something related to the customer's router or interference they have caused that doesn't change with fiber. On 3/6/23 3:55 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: > Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area. > They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a > price lock for three years. > Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want > to reactivate it. > The disconnect was Friday. The reconnect was this morning... > I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I > gotta tell you, you never get service calls with fiber. > Best Regards, > Chuck McCown > > McCown Technology Corporation > 8401 N Commerce Dr > Lake Point, Utah 84074 > 801-250-9503 Office > 435-830-4306 Cell > www.mccowntech.com > www.microtrench.pro > www.terabitnetworks.com > -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude
Why did they come back? A properly running WISP should be as stable as a fiber connection. We rarely get service calls on wireless -- usually it's something related to the customer's router or interference they have caused that doesn't change with fiber. On 3/6/23 3:55 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area. They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a price lock for three years. Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want to reactivate it. The disconnect was Friday. The reconnect was this morning... I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I gotta tell you, you never get service calls with fiber. Best Regards, Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 Office 435-830-4306 Cell www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench.pro www.terabitnetworks.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude
Yeah, but complainers like that deserve to go to the minor leagues. From: Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, March 7, 2023 9:20 AM To: Chuck McCown Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude That's lost revenue!!! On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 6:18 PM Chuck McCown wrote: We refer those guys to the wisp. From: Josh Luthman Sent: Monday, March 6, 2023 3:07 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Cc: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude Fiber customer called today. They want to paint the walls but couldn't remove the wall plate. They didn't understand that they could unplug the wall wart to remove the wall plate. How does fiber fix these calls? On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 3:57 PM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area. They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a price lock for three years. Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want to reactivate it. The disconnect was Friday. The reconnect was this morning... I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I gotta tell you, you never get service calls with fiber. Best Regards, Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 Office 435-830-4306 Cell www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench.pro www.terabitnetworks.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude
That's lost revenue!!! On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 6:18 PM Chuck McCown wrote: > We refer those guys to the wisp. > > *From:* Josh Luthman > *Sent:* Monday, March 6, 2023 3:07 PM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > *Cc:* Chuck McCown > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude > > Fiber customer called today. They want to paint the walls but couldn't > remove the wall plate. They didn't understand that they could unplug the > wall wart to remove the wall plate. > > How does fiber fix these calls? > > On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 3:57 PM Chuck McCown via AF > wrote: > >> Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area. >> They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a price >> lock for three years. >> >> Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want to >> reactivate it. >> >> The disconnect was Friday. The reconnect was this morning... >> >> I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I gotta >> tell you, you never get service calls with fiber. >> >> >> Best Regards, >> Chuck McCown >> >> McCown Technology Corporation >> 8401 N Commerce Dr >> Lake Point, Utah 84074 >> 801-250-9503 Office >> 435-830-4306 Cell >> www.mccowntech.com >> www.microtrench.pro >> www.terabitnetworks.com >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude
We refer those guys to the wisp. From: Josh Luthman Sent: Monday, March 6, 2023 3:07 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Cc: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude Fiber customer called today. They want to paint the walls but couldn't remove the wall plate. They didn't understand that they could unplug the wall wart to remove the wall plate. How does fiber fix these calls? On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 3:57 PM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area. They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a price lock for three years. Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want to reactivate it. The disconnect was Friday. The reconnect was this morning... I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I gotta tell you, you never get service calls with fiber. Best Regards, Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 Office 435-830-4306 Cell www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench.pro www.terabitnetworks.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude
Fiber customer called today. They want to paint the walls but couldn't remove the wall plate. They didn't understand that they could unplug the wall wart to remove the wall plate. How does fiber fix these calls? On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 3:57 PM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: > Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area. > They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a price > lock for three years. > > Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want to > reactivate it. > > The disconnect was Friday. The reconnect was this morning... > > I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I gotta > tell you, you never get service calls with fiber. > > > Best Regards, > Chuck McCown > > McCown Technology Corporation > 8401 N Commerce Dr > Lake Point, Utah 84074 > 801-250-9503 Office > 435-830-4306 Cell > www.mccowntech.com > www.microtrench.pro > www.terabitnetworks.com > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude
Lol We get about equal service tickets for fiber and wireless customers, but our fiber footprint is about 3x wireless and over half of the fiber plant is almost a decade old. I attribute my excellent wireless skillz and awesome group of dedicated employees to that though. From: AF On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF Sent: Monday, March 6, 2023 1:55 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Cc: Chuck McCown Subject: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area. They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a price lock for three years. Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want to reactivate it. The disconnect was Friday. The reconnect was this morning... I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I gotta tell you, you never get service calls with fiber. Best Regards, Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 Office 435-830-4306 Cell www.mccowntech.com<http://www.mccowntech.com> www.microtrench.pro<http://www.microtrench.pro> www.terabitnetworks.com<http://www.terabitnetworks.com> -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
[AFMUG] Shadenfreude
Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area. They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a price lock for three years. Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want to reactivate it. The disconnect was Friday. The reconnect was this morning... I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I gotta tell you, you never get service calls with fiber. Best Regards, Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 Office 435-830-4306 Cell www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench.pro www.terabitnetworks.com-- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com