Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

2023-03-19 Thread Mike Hammett 
256x256 MIMO to many customers at once is kind of a big deal. Fiber is just 
starting to get into more than one spatial stream. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Steve Jones"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2023 12:04:40 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude 


See, I look at it the opposite. Physics may limit any new tech, but really we 
havent seen any wireless advances, just wider bandwidth, higher modulation, 
more subcarriers. To me, a true advancement is an improvement without major 
cost. Everyone of those improvements tends to come at an SNR cost at minimum 
and SNR is something we are already losing. Sure theres improved SNR with moar 
power, but thats just diminishing the aggregate to improve the minute 


On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 10:52 AM Chuck McCown via AF < af@af.afmug.com > wrote: 


I am impressed at the advancements with wireless over the years. I would 
have never expected to be able to deliver PMP 100 Mbps with any quality at 
all. And we all know that 100 mbps will do almost everything anyone would 
ever need, still we have fiber customers wanting 1. 2.5 and 10 gig... 

And to think that we used to be so happy to advertise 10 Mbps on Canopy. 
That burst mode was the bomb until Netflix arrived. 

-Original Message- 
From: dmmoff...@gmail.com 
Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2023 7:37 AM 
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude 

Almost sounds like you're not serious. Fiber really is the future. 

How much wireless bandwidth is there to work with? If we kicked out all 
incumbent microwave users and made it all available for WISPs there'd be 
what, 50 GHz? More realistically 5-10GHz that you could really use for the 
last mileassuming they'd allocate all of it for a WISP. Within the 
reality of the regulatory framework we've got more like 1-2GHz available. 

Bandwidth of a single mode fiber is ~50 Thz. Even the most optimistic 
estimate for wireless doesn't compare. 

100Gbps ethernet on fiber uses only a tiny fraction of the possible 
bandwidth and very primitive modulation. It's not because you couldn't do 
1024QAM with a laser, it's just that right now we don't need to. 
Theoretically pushing Shannon-Hartley to the limits you could run 1.2 
petabits per second on a single mode fiber. That's a million gigabits. 

Clearly there are badly implemented networks, but that just means a dumb 
person did it. If you're not branching out into fiber you'll eventually be 
left behind. IMO, the only debatable part is how many years that'll take. 

-Adam 


-Original Message- 
From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes 
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2023 8:57 AM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com >; Jan-GAMs 
< j.vank...@grnacres.net > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude 

But... But... fiber is the future. 

On 3/7/23 4:29 PM, Jan-GAMs wrote: 
> Our fiber competitor is using fiber to connect to a DSL connection. 
> Those customers who left our wisp for them came back within a few days. 
> 
> On 3/6/23 12:55, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: 
>> Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area. 
>> They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a 
>> price lock for three years. 
>> Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want 
>> to reactivate it. 
>> The disconnect was Friday. The reconnect was this morning... 
>> I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I 
>> gotta tell you, you never get service calls with fiber. 
>> Best Regards, 
>> Chuck McCown 
>> 
>> McCown Technology Corporation 
>> 8401 N Commerce Dr 
>> Lake Point, Utah 84074 
>> 801-250-9503 Office 
>> 435-830-4306 Cell 
>> www.mccowntech.com 
>> www.microtrench.pro 
>> www.terabitnetworks.com 
>> 
> 

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Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

2023-03-19 Thread Mike Hammett 
I know a WISP that picks up MetroNet (large FTTx only) customers all of the 
time. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Chuck McCown via AF"  
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Cc: "Chuck McCown"  
Sent: Monday, March 6, 2023 2:55:19 PM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude 




Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area. 

They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a price lock 
for three years. 

Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want to 
reactivate it. 

The disconnect was Friday. The reconnect was this morning... 

I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I gotta tell 
you, you never get service calls with fiber. 


Best Regards, 
Chuck McCown 

McCown Technology Corporation 
8401 N Commerce Dr 
Lake Point, Utah 84074 
801-250-9503 Office 
435-830-4306 Cell 
www.mccowntech.com 
www.microtrench.pro 
www.terabitnetworks.com 
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Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

2023-03-08 Thread Steve Jones 
See, I look at it the opposite. Physics may limit any new tech, but really
we havent seen any wireless advances, just wider bandwidth, higher
modulation, more subcarriers. To me, a true advancement is an improvement
without major cost. Everyone of those improvements tends to come at an SNR
cost at minimum and SNR is something we are already losing. Sure theres
improved SNR with moar power, but thats just diminishing the aggregate to
improve the minute

On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 10:52 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> I am impressed at the advancements with wireless over the years.  I would
> have never expected to be able to deliver PMP 100 Mbps with any quality at
> all.  And we all know that 100 mbps will do almost everything anyone would
> ever need, still we have fiber customers wanting 1. 2.5 and 10 gig...
>
> And to think that we used to be so happy to advertise 10 Mbps on Canopy.
> That burst mode was the bomb until Netflix arrived.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: dmmoff...@gmail.com
> Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2023 7:37 AM
> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude
>
> Almost sounds like you're not serious.  Fiber really is the future.
>
> How much wireless bandwidth is there to work with?  If we kicked out all
> incumbent microwave users and made it all available for WISPs there'd be
> what, 50 GHz? More realistically 5-10GHz  that you could really use for
> the
> last mileassuming they'd allocate all of it for a WISP.   Within the
> reality of the regulatory framework we've got more like 1-2GHz available.
>
> Bandwidth of a single mode fiber is ~50 Thz.   Even the most optimistic
> estimate for wireless doesn't compare.
>
> 100Gbps ethernet on fiber uses only a tiny fraction of the possible
> bandwidth and very primitive modulation.  It's not because you couldn't do
> 1024QAM with a laser, it's just that right now we don't need to.
> Theoretically pushing Shannon-Hartley to the limits you could run 1.2
> petabits per second on a single mode fiber.  That's a million gigabits.
>
> Clearly there are badly implemented networks, but that just means a dumb
> person did it.  If you're not branching out into fiber you'll eventually
> be
> left behind.  IMO, the only debatable part is how many years that'll take.
>
> -Adam
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2023 8:57 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Jan-GAMs
> 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude
>
> But... But... fiber is the future.
>
> On 3/7/23 4:29 PM, Jan-GAMs wrote:
> > Our fiber competitor is using fiber to connect to a DSL connection.
> > Those customers who left our wisp for them came back within a few days.
> >
> > On 3/6/23 12:55, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
> >> Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area.
> >> They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a
> >> price lock for three years.
> >> Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want
> >> to reactivate it.
> >> The disconnect was Friday.  The reconnect was this morning...
> >> I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I
> >> gotta tell you, you never get service calls with fiber.
> >> Best Regards,
> >> Chuck McCown
> >>
> >> McCown Technology Corporation
> >> 8401 N Commerce Dr
> >> Lake Point, Utah 84074
> >> 801-250-9503 Office
> >> 435-830-4306 Cell
> >> www.mccowntech.com
> >> www.microtrench.pro
> >> www.terabitnetworks.com
> >>
> >
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

2023-03-08 Thread dmmoffett 
Absolutely.

To get that high performance though we're putting more processing power up
onto the tower.  Which means more wattage needed than PoE can do, so now you
need fiber and power cables up the tower.  You still might need the cat5 for
timing or management or what-not depending on the platform.  So now we're
looking at bigger conduit to carry 3x as many cables up.  Bigger power
supply and battery backup at the bottom.  New router/switch to carry the
higher capacity.  Upgrading from Canopy to the 430, 320, or 450 was
basically just swapping one thing on the tower.  Cambium450 to 450m or
similar is more or less a complete do-over.   We were talking about minimum
$50,000 per tower.  Our corporate overlords said they'd rather put that
money into fiber.  I saw no reason to argue the point.

But yeah, in the right market, someplace where fiber is still a long way off
you could do a 100% respectable job with wireless.  



-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2023 11:52 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

I am impressed at the advancements with wireless over the years.  I would
have never expected to be able to deliver PMP 100 Mbps with any quality at
all.  And we all know that 100 mbps will do almost everything anyone would
ever need, still we have fiber customers wanting 1. 2.5 and 10 gig...

And to think that we used to be so happy to advertise 10 Mbps on Canopy. 
That burst mode was the bomb until Netflix arrived.

-Original Message-
From: dmmoff...@gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2023 7:37 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

Almost sounds like you're not serious.  Fiber really is the future.

How much wireless bandwidth is there to work with?  If we kicked out all
incumbent microwave users and made it all available for WISPs there'd be
what, 50 GHz? More realistically 5-10GHz  that you could really use for the 
last mileassuming they'd allocate all of it for a WISP.   Within the 
reality of the regulatory framework we've got more like 1-2GHz available.

Bandwidth of a single mode fiber is ~50 Thz.   Even the most optimistic 
estimate for wireless doesn't compare.

100Gbps ethernet on fiber uses only a tiny fraction of the possible
bandwidth and very primitive modulation.  It's not because you couldn't do
1024QAM with a laser, it's just that right now we don't need to. 
Theoretically pushing Shannon-Hartley to the limits you could run 1.2
petabits per second on a single mode fiber.  That's a million gigabits.

Clearly there are badly implemented networks, but that just means a dumb
person did it.  If you're not branching out into fiber you'll eventually be
left behind.  IMO, the only debatable part is how many years that'll take.

-Adam


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2023 8:57 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Jan-GAMs

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

But... But... fiber is the future.

On 3/7/23 4:29 PM, Jan-GAMs wrote:
> Our fiber competitor is using fiber to connect to a DSL connection.
> Those customers who left our wisp for them came back within a few days.
>
> On 3/6/23 12:55, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>> Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area.
>> They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a 
>> price lock for three years.
>> Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want 
>> to reactivate it.
>> The disconnect was Friday.  The reconnect was this morning...
>> I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I 
>> gotta tell you, you never get service calls with fiber.
>> Best Regards,
>> Chuck McCown
>>
>> McCown Technology Corporation
>> 8401 N Commerce Dr
>> Lake Point, Utah 84074
>> 801-250-9503 Office
>> 435-830-4306 Cell
>> www.mccowntech.com
>> www.microtrench.pro
>> www.terabitnetworks.com
>>
>

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Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

2023-03-08 Thread Jason McKemie 
The biggest issue with wireless IMO is the continuously rising noise
floor, more so than the capacity (for now at least).  At some point it is
going to be unusable for links of any decent range - everything will need
to be microcell.  Fiber does not have this problem.

On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 10:52 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> I am impressed at the advancements with wireless over the years.  I would
> have never expected to be able to deliver PMP 100 Mbps with any quality at
> all.  And we all know that 100 mbps will do almost everything anyone would
> ever need, still we have fiber customers wanting 1. 2.5 and 10 gig...
>
> And to think that we used to be so happy to advertise 10 Mbps on Canopy.
> That burst mode was the bomb until Netflix arrived.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: dmmoff...@gmail.com
> Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2023 7:37 AM
> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude
>
> Almost sounds like you're not serious.  Fiber really is the future.
>
> How much wireless bandwidth is there to work with?  If we kicked out all
> incumbent microwave users and made it all available for WISPs there'd be
> what, 50 GHz? More realistically 5-10GHz  that you could really use for
> the
> last mileassuming they'd allocate all of it for a WISP.   Within the
> reality of the regulatory framework we've got more like 1-2GHz available.
>
> Bandwidth of a single mode fiber is ~50 Thz.   Even the most optimistic
> estimate for wireless doesn't compare.
>
> 100Gbps ethernet on fiber uses only a tiny fraction of the possible
> bandwidth and very primitive modulation.  It's not because you couldn't do
> 1024QAM with a laser, it's just that right now we don't need to.
> Theoretically pushing Shannon-Hartley to the limits you could run 1.2
> petabits per second on a single mode fiber.  That's a million gigabits.
>
> Clearly there are badly implemented networks, but that just means a dumb
> person did it.  If you're not branching out into fiber you'll eventually
> be
> left behind.  IMO, the only debatable part is how many years that'll take.
>
> -Adam
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2023 8:57 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Jan-GAMs
> 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude
>
> But... But... fiber is the future.
>
> On 3/7/23 4:29 PM, Jan-GAMs wrote:
> > Our fiber competitor is using fiber to connect to a DSL connection.
> > Those customers who left our wisp for them came back within a few days.
> >
> > On 3/6/23 12:55, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
> >> Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area.
> >> They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a
> >> price lock for three years.
> >> Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want
> >> to reactivate it.
> >> The disconnect was Friday.  The reconnect was this morning...
> >> I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I
> >> gotta tell you, you never get service calls with fiber.
> >> Best Regards,
> >> Chuck McCown
> >>
> >> McCown Technology Corporation
> >> 8401 N Commerce Dr
> >> Lake Point, Utah 84074
> >> 801-250-9503 Office
> >> 435-830-4306 Cell
> >> www.mccowntech.com
> >> www.microtrench.pro
> >> www.terabitnetworks.com
> >>
> >
>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

2023-03-08 Thread Chuck McCown via AF 
I am impressed at the advancements with wireless over the years.  I would 
have never expected to be able to deliver PMP 100 Mbps with any quality at 
all.  And we all know that 100 mbps will do almost everything anyone would 
ever need, still we have fiber customers wanting 1. 2.5 and 10 gig...


And to think that we used to be so happy to advertise 10 Mbps on Canopy. 
That burst mode was the bomb until Netflix arrived.


-Original Message- 
From: dmmoff...@gmail.com

Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2023 7:37 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

Almost sounds like you're not serious.  Fiber really is the future.

How much wireless bandwidth is there to work with?  If we kicked out all 
incumbent microwave users and made it all available for WISPs there'd be 
what, 50 GHz? More realistically 5-10GHz  that you could really use for the 
last mileassuming they'd allocate all of it for a WISP.   Within the 
reality of the regulatory framework we've got more like 1-2GHz available.


Bandwidth of a single mode fiber is ~50 Thz.   Even the most optimistic 
estimate for wireless doesn't compare.


100Gbps ethernet on fiber uses only a tiny fraction of the possible 
bandwidth and very primitive modulation.  It's not because you couldn't do 
1024QAM with a laser, it's just that right now we don't need to. 
Theoretically pushing Shannon-Hartley to the limits you could run 1.2 
petabits per second on a single mode fiber.  That's a million gigabits.


Clearly there are badly implemented networks, but that just means a dumb 
person did it.  If you're not branching out into fiber you'll eventually be 
left behind.  IMO, the only debatable part is how many years that'll take.


-Adam


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2023 8:57 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Jan-GAMs 


Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

But... But... fiber is the future.

On 3/7/23 4:29 PM, Jan-GAMs wrote:

Our fiber competitor is using fiber to connect to a DSL connection.
Those customers who left our wisp for them came back within a few days.

On 3/6/23 12:55, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area.
They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a
price lock for three years.
Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want
to reactivate it.
The disconnect was Friday.  The reconnect was this morning...
I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I
gotta tell you, you never get service calls with fiber.
Best Regards,
Chuck McCown

McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench.pro
www.terabitnetworks.com





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Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

2023-03-08 Thread dmmoffett 
Almost sounds like you're not serious.  Fiber really is the future.

How much wireless bandwidth is there to work with?  If we kicked out all 
incumbent microwave users and made it all available for WISPs there'd be what, 
50 GHz? More realistically 5-10GHz  that you could really use for the last 
mileassuming they'd allocate all of it for a WISP.   Within the reality of 
the regulatory framework we've got more like 1-2GHz available.

Bandwidth of a single mode fiber is ~50 Thz.   Even the most optimistic 
estimate for wireless doesn't compare.

100Gbps ethernet on fiber uses only a tiny fraction of the possible bandwidth 
and very primitive modulation.  It's not because you couldn't do 1024QAM with a 
laser, it's just that right now we don't need to.  Theoretically pushing 
Shannon-Hartley to the limits you could run 1.2 petabits per second on a single 
mode fiber.  That's a million gigabits. 

Clearly there are badly implemented networks, but that just means a dumb person 
did it.  If you're not branching out into fiber you'll eventually be left 
behind.  IMO, the only debatable part is how many years that'll take. 

-Adam


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2023 8:57 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Jan-GAMs 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

But... But... fiber is the future.

On 3/7/23 4:29 PM, Jan-GAMs wrote:
> Our fiber competitor is using fiber to connect to a DSL connection.  
> Those customers who left our wisp for them came back within a few days.
> 
> On 3/6/23 12:55, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>> Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area.
>> They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a 
>> price lock for three years.
>> Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want 
>> to reactivate it.
>> The disconnect was Friday.  The reconnect was this morning...
>> I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I 
>> gotta tell you, you never get service calls with fiber.
>> Best Regards,
>> Chuck McCown
>>
>> McCown Technology Corporation
>> 8401 N Commerce Dr
>> Lake Point, Utah 84074
>> 801-250-9503 Office
>> 435-830-4306 Cell
>> www.mccowntech.com
>> www.microtrench.pro
>> www.terabitnetworks.com
>>
> 

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Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

2023-03-08 Thread Steve Jones 
I cringe when i have these people approach me. So very certain of the easy
money. not aware of the market saturation. Very much not aware of the time
commitment. After all, WiFi just works.

On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 8:16 AM Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> I'm amazed how many folks I've seen over the years think running a WISP
> was so easy a caveman could do it and I had to sit them down and talk
> them out of it for their good and my good.
>
> On 3/7/23 6:06 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
> > Well everybuddy knows that  you can't compete with fiber, right?!
> >
> > (this guy (the WISP) is a coder/IT guy that decided becoming a WISP is
> > easy. Heavy advertising as FOTA.  I think he is learning that pesky RF
> > stuff might indeed be important)
> >
> > -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 7, 2023 1:27 PM
> > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> > Cc: Chuck McCown
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude
> >
> > Why did they come back?  A properly running WISP should be as stable as
> > a fiber connection.
> >
> > We rarely get service calls on wireless -- usually it's something
> > related to the customer's router or interference they have caused
> > that doesn't change with fiber.
> >
> > On 3/6/23 3:55 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
> >> Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area.
> >> They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a
> >> price lock for three years.
> >> Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want
> >> to reactivate it.
> >> The disconnect was Friday.  The reconnect was this morning...
> >> I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I
> >> gotta tell you, you never get service calls with fiber.
> >> Best Regards,
> >> Chuck McCown
> >>
> >> McCown Technology Corporation
> >> 8401 N Commerce Dr
> >> Lake Point, Utah 84074
> >> 801-250-9503 Office
> >> 435-830-4306 Cell
> >> www.mccowntech.com
> >> www.microtrench.pro
> >> www.terabitnetworks.com
> >>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

2023-03-08 Thread dmmoffett 
That’s pretty amazing.  

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Jan-GAMs
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2023 4:29 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

 

Our fiber competitor is using fiber to connect to a DSL connection.  Those 
customers who left our wisp for them came back within a few days.

On 3/6/23 12:55, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area.  

They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a price lock 
for three years. 

 

Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want to 
reactivate it.  

 

The disconnect was Friday.  The reconnect was this morning...

 

I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I gotta tell 
you, you never get service calls with fiber.

 

 

Best Regards,
Chuck McCown

McCown Technology Corporation 
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com <http://www.mccowntech.com> 
www.microtrench.pro <http://www.microtrench.pro> 
www.terabitnetworks.com <http://www.terabitnetworks.com> 





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Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

2023-03-08 Thread Matt Hoppes 
I'm amazed how many folks I've seen over the years think running a WISP 
was so easy a caveman could do it and I had to sit them down and talk 
them out of it for their good and my good.


On 3/7/23 6:06 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Well everybuddy knows that  you can't compete with fiber, right?!

(this guy (the WISP) is a coder/IT guy that decided becoming a WISP is 
easy. Heavy advertising as FOTA.  I think he is learning that pesky RF 
stuff might indeed be important)


-Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Tuesday, March 7, 2023 1:27 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Cc: Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

Why did they come back?  A properly running WISP should be as stable as
a fiber connection.

We rarely get service calls on wireless -- usually it's something
related to the customer's router or interference they have caused
that doesn't change with fiber.

On 3/6/23 3:55 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area.
They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a 
price lock for three years.
Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want 
to reactivate it.

The disconnect was Friday.  The reconnect was this morning...
I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I 
gotta tell you, you never get service calls with fiber.

Best Regards,
Chuck McCown

McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench.pro
www.terabitnetworks.com



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Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

2023-03-08 Thread Matt Hoppes 

But... But... fiber is the future.

On 3/7/23 4:29 PM, Jan-GAMs wrote:
Our fiber competitor is using fiber to connect to a DSL connection.  
Those customers who left our wisp for them came back within a few days.


On 3/6/23 12:55, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area.
They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a 
price lock for three years.
Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want 
to reactivate it.

The disconnect was Friday.  The reconnect was this morning...
I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I 
gotta tell you, you never get service calls with fiber.

Best Regards,
Chuck McCown

McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench.pro
www.terabitnetworks.com





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Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

2023-03-08 Thread Matt Hoppes 

I mean this is true... "new wisp" doesn't mean a quality new WISP.

On 3/7/23 4:06 PM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:

Well he did say "new wisp"
Maybe they put a DD-WRT router in Tupperware on the roof with a Pringles can
yagi.
Or they think it's smart to run wifi with a WDS mesh.  Every customer is a
POP and grows my networkso easy!
Or they said "up to 200Mb" and actually delivered 5Mb
Or the whole thing runs on a cable modem in his mom's basement

or any number of other dumb ideas people thought were smart when they
too were a "new wisp".
I bet we can all think up a huge list of dumb things we've seen, heard, or
maybe done ourselves.




-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2023 3:27 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

Why did they come back?  A properly running WISP should be as stable as a
fiber connection.

We rarely get service calls on wireless -- usually it's something related to
the customer's router or interference they have caused
that doesn't change with fiber.

On 3/6/23 3:55 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area.
They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a
price lock for three years.
Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want
to reactivate it.
The disconnect was Friday.  The reconnect was this morning...
I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I
gotta tell you, you never get service calls with fiber.
Best Regards,
Chuck McCown

McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench.pro
www.terabitnetworks.com



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Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

2023-03-07 Thread Bill Prince 

Put that in te Karen file.

bp


On 3/7/2023 9:15 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Yeah, but complainers like that deserve to go to the minor leagues.
*From:* Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 7, 2023 9:20 AM
*To:* Chuck McCown
*Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude
That's lost revenue!!!
On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 6:18 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

We refer those guys to the wisp.
*From:* Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Monday, March 6, 2023 3:07 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Cc:* Chuck McCown
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude
Fiber customer called today. They want to paint the walls but
couldn't remove the wall plate.  They didn't understand that they
could unplug the wall wart to remove the wall plate.

How does fiber fix these calls?
On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 3:57 PM Chuck McCown via AF
 wrote:

Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in
the area.
They said the new service was half the price of ours and they
got a price lock for three years.
Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time
you want to reactivate it.
The disconnect was Friday.  The reconnect was this morning...
I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies,
but I gotta tell you, you never get service calls with fiber.
Best Regards,
Chuck McCown

McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com <http://www.mccowntech.com>
www.microtrench.pro <http://www.microtrench.pro>
www.terabitnetworks.com <http://www.terabitnetworks.com>
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Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

2023-03-07 Thread Seth Mattinen via AF 

On 3/7/23 3:06 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Well everybuddy knows that  you can't compete with fiber, right?!

(this guy (the WISP) is a coder/IT guy that decided becoming a WISP is 
easy. Heavy advertising as FOTA.  I think he is learning that pesky RF 
stuff might indeed be important)




Once someone contacted me about setting up a WISP in a planned 
community. Their plan was "we can get all the homes (hundreds) on a 
single ubnt rocket with an omni in the middle". I just said sure you do 
that and never talked to them again.



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Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

2023-03-07 Thread Chuck McCown via AF 

Well everybuddy knows that  you can't compete with fiber, right?!

(this guy (the WISP) is a coder/IT guy that decided becoming a WISP is easy. 
Heavy advertising as FOTA.  I think he is learning that pesky RF stuff might 
indeed be important)


-Original Message- 
From: Matt Hoppes

Sent: Tuesday, March 7, 2023 1:27 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Cc: Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

Why did they come back?  A properly running WISP should be as stable as
a fiber connection.

We rarely get service calls on wireless -- usually it's something
related to the customer's router or interference they have caused
that doesn't change with fiber.

On 3/6/23 3:55 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area.
They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a price 
lock for three years.
Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want to 
reactivate it.

The disconnect was Friday.  The reconnect was this morning...
I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I gotta 
tell you, you never get service calls with fiber.

Best Regards,
Chuck McCown

McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench.pro
www.terabitnetworks.com



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Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

2023-03-07 Thread Jan-GAMs 
Our fiber competitor is using fiber to connect to a DSL connection.  
Those customers who left our wisp for them came back within a few days.


On 3/6/23 12:55, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area.
They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a 
price lock for three years.
Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want 
to reactivate it.

The disconnect was Friday.  The reconnect was this morning...
I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I 
gotta tell you, you never get service calls with fiber.

Best Regards,
Chuck McCown

McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench.pro
www.terabitnetworks.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

2023-03-07 Thread dmmoffett 
Well he did say "new wisp"
Maybe they put a DD-WRT router in Tupperware on the roof with a Pringles can
yagi.
Or they think it's smart to run wifi with a WDS mesh.  Every customer is a
POP and grows my networkso easy!
Or they said "up to 200Mb" and actually delivered 5Mb
Or the whole thing runs on a cable modem in his mom's basement

or any number of other dumb ideas people thought were smart when they
too were a "new wisp".  
I bet we can all think up a huge list of dumb things we've seen, heard, or
maybe done ourselves.




-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2023 3:27 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

Why did they come back?  A properly running WISP should be as stable as a
fiber connection.

We rarely get service calls on wireless -- usually it's something related to
the customer's router or interference they have caused 
that doesn't change with fiber.

On 3/6/23 3:55 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
> Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area.
> They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a 
> price lock for three years.
> Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want 
> to reactivate it.
> The disconnect was Friday.  The reconnect was this morning...
> I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I 
> gotta tell you, you never get service calls with fiber.
> Best Regards,
> Chuck McCown
> 
> McCown Technology Corporation
> 8401 N Commerce Dr
> Lake Point, Utah 84074
> 801-250-9503 Office
> 435-830-4306 Cell
> www.mccowntech.com
> www.microtrench.pro
> www.terabitnetworks.com
> 

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Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

2023-03-07 Thread Matt Hoppes 
Why did they come back?  A properly running WISP should be as stable as 
a fiber connection.


We rarely get service calls on wireless -- usually it's something 
related to the customer's router or interference they have caused 
that doesn't change with fiber.


On 3/6/23 3:55 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area.
They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a 
price lock for three years.
Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want to 
reactivate it.

The disconnect was Friday.  The reconnect was this morning...
I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I gotta 
tell you, you never get service calls with fiber.

Best Regards,
Chuck McCown

McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench.pro
www.terabitnetworks.com



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Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

2023-03-07 Thread Chuck McCown via AF 
Yeah, but complainers like that deserve to go to the minor leagues.  
From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Tuesday, March 7, 2023 9:20 AM
To: Chuck McCown 
Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

That's lost revenue!!!

On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 6:18 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

  We refer those guys to the wisp.

  From: Josh Luthman 
  Sent: Monday, March 6, 2023 3:07 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Cc: Chuck McCown 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

  Fiber customer called today.  They want to paint the walls but couldn't 
remove the wall plate.  They didn't understand that they could unplug the wall 
wart to remove the wall plate. 

  How does fiber fix these calls?

  On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 3:57 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area.  
They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a price 
lock for three years. 

Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want to 
reactivate it.  

The disconnect was Friday.  The reconnect was this morning...

I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I gotta 
tell you, you never get service calls with fiber.


Best Regards,
Chuck McCown

McCown Technology Corporation 
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench.pro
www.terabitnetworks.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

2023-03-07 Thread Josh Luthman 
That's lost revenue!!!

On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 6:18 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> We refer those guys to the wisp.
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Monday, March 6, 2023 3:07 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude
>
> Fiber customer called today.  They want to paint the walls but couldn't
> remove the wall plate.  They didn't understand that they could unplug the
> wall wart to remove the wall plate.
>
> How does fiber fix these calls?
>
> On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 3:57 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area.
>> They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a price
>> lock for three years.
>>
>> Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want to
>> reactivate it.
>>
>> The disconnect was Friday.  The reconnect was this morning...
>>
>> I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I gotta
>> tell you, you never get service calls with fiber.
>>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Chuck McCown
>>
>> McCown Technology Corporation
>> 8401 N Commerce Dr
>> Lake Point, Utah 84074
>> 801-250-9503 Office
>> 435-830-4306 Cell
>> www.mccowntech.com
>> www.microtrench.pro
>> www.terabitnetworks.com
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

2023-03-06 Thread Chuck McCown via AF 
We refer those guys to the wisp.

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Monday, March 6, 2023 3:07 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

Fiber customer called today.  They want to paint the walls but couldn't remove 
the wall plate.  They didn't understand that they could unplug the wall wart to 
remove the wall plate. 

How does fiber fix these calls?

On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 3:57 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

  Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area.  
  They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a price 
lock for three years. 

  Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want to 
reactivate it.  

  The disconnect was Friday.  The reconnect was this morning...

  I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I gotta tell 
you, you never get service calls with fiber.


  Best Regards,
  Chuck McCown

  McCown Technology Corporation 
  8401 N Commerce Dr
  Lake Point, Utah 84074
  801-250-9503 Office
  435-830-4306 Cell
  www.mccowntech.com
  www.microtrench.pro
  www.terabitnetworks.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

2023-03-06 Thread Josh Luthman 
Fiber customer called today.  They want to paint the walls but couldn't
remove the wall plate.  They didn't understand that they could unplug the
wall wart to remove the wall plate.

How does fiber fix these calls?

On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 3:57 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area.
> They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a price
> lock for three years.
>
> Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want to
> reactivate it.
>
> The disconnect was Friday.  The reconnect was this morning...
>
> I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I gotta
> tell you, you never get service calls with fiber.
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Chuck McCown
>
> McCown Technology Corporation
> 8401 N Commerce Dr
> Lake Point, Utah 84074
> 801-250-9503 Office
> 435-830-4306 Cell
> www.mccowntech.com
> www.microtrench.pro
> www.terabitnetworks.com
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

2023-03-06 Thread Sterling Jacobson 
Lol

We get about equal service tickets for fiber and wireless customers, but our 
fiber footprint is about 3x wireless and over half of the fiber plant is almost 
a decade old.

I attribute my excellent wireless skillz and awesome group of dedicated 
employees to that though.

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Monday, March 6, 2023 1:55 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area.
They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a price lock 
for three years.

Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want to 
reactivate it.

The disconnect was Friday.  The reconnect was this morning...

I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I gotta tell 
you, you never get service calls with fiber.


Best Regards,
Chuck McCown

McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench.pro
www.terabitnetworks.com
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