[AFMUG] Strange CTM/CMM behavior

[Gabriel Pike]

I had something strange happen yesterday Sunday the 18th between 7 AM and 10
PM where 3 different devices in 3 different locations all went crazy. During
this time period GPS would drop and re-establish repeatedly. The strange
thing is after 10 PM it stopped. We have had no change in weather or any
other condition that would cause this. Has anyone else seen this kind of odd
behavior?

 

Gabriel Pike

Re: [AFMUG] Strange CTM/CMM behavior

[David]

Are you close to a military base,Airport or coastline?

On 01/19/2015 06:57 AM, Gabriel Pike wrote:


I had something strange happen yesterday Sunday the 18^th between 7 AM 
and 10 PM where 3 different devices in 3 different locations all went 
crazy. During this time period GPS would drop and re-establish 
repeatedly. The strange thing is after 10 PM it stopped. We have had 
no change in weather or any other condition that would cause this. Has 
anyone else seen this kind of odd behavior?


Gabriel Pike

Re: [AFMUG] Anyone seeing HTTPS issues to Google via IP6

[David]

We saw this even on ipv4.. cached page would load but no update.

On 01/17/2015 07:05 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
I'm not posting to the outages list since I haven't seen anything 
there already, and have only tested from my House. Just curious if 
anyone else is seeing anything.


I'm Native IPv6, Google/youtube are intermittently loading on multiple 
machines.  Error is related to HTTPS/SSL versions not matching what 
was requested (of course I just cleared the error, and now it's 
working again).  Refreshing the page after a couple seconds seems to 
fix it.  Been having this happen on and off for most of the day.


There is no packetloss with ICMP.

Nate

Re: [AFMUG] Strange CTM/CMM behavior

[Gabriel Pike]

No. I am in a rural area of Michigan. 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of David
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 8:49 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Strange CTM/CMM behavior

 

Are you close to a military base,Airport or coastline?

On 01/19/2015 06:57 AM, Gabriel Pike wrote:

I had something strange happen yesterday Sunday the 18th between 7 AM and 10
PM where 3 different devices in 3 different locations all went crazy. During
this time period GPS would drop and re-establish repeatedly. The strange
thing is after 10 PM it stopped. We have had no change in weather or any
other condition that would cause this. Has anyone else seen this kind of odd
behavior?

�

Gabriel Pike

 

Re: [AFMUG] Anyone seeing HTTPS issues to Google via IP6

[Paul McCall]

+1

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of David
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 8:55 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Anyone seeing HTTPS issues to Google via IP6

We saw this even on ipv4.. cached page would load but no update.

On 01/17/2015 07:05 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
> I'm not posting to the outages list since I haven't seen anything 
> there already, and have only tested from my House. Just curious if 
> anyone else is seeing anything.
>
> I'm Native IPv6, Google/youtube are intermittently loading on multiple 
> machines.  Error is related to HTTPS/SSL versions not matching what 
> was requested (of course I just cleared the error, and now it's 
> working again).  Refreshing the page after a couple seconds seems to 
> fix it.  Been having this happen on and off for most of the day.
>
> There is no packetloss with ICMP.
>
> Nate

Re: [AFMUG] 450AP interfering with 900Mhz Cambium

[Paul McCall]

Good to know Andreas!

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Colin Stanners
Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2015 9:02 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450AP interfering with 900Mhz Cambium

Were there other APs on the tower, to rule out a strange voltage issue?

On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Andreas Wiatowski 
mailto:andr...@silowireless.com>> wrote:
I just wanted to share that last week we had an issue with a 450 5Ghz ap . 
Every time it was powered up…even without a frequency carrier, the co-located 
900 AP would drop 50% of the subscribers.  We suspected a leaky circuit board 
and swapped the AP.  Voila! All 900 subs stay up.

We are submitting an RMA..but indeed..the AP had a bad board.

Cheers,

Andreas Wiatowski, CEO
Silo Wireless Inc.
1-866-727-4138 x-600
Web: www.silowireless.com
Facebook: www.facebook.com/silowireless
Twitter: @silowireless

Re: [AFMUG] Anyone seeing HTTPS issues to Google via IP6

[Matt Brendle]

IPv4 is showing intermittent packet loss to 8.8.8.8.  Looks like it started
around 6 this morning.

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Paul McCall
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 9:24 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Anyone seeing HTTPS issues to Google via IP6

+1

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of David
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 8:55 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Anyone seeing HTTPS issues to Google via IP6

We saw this even on ipv4.. cached page would load but no update.

On 01/17/2015 07:05 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
> I'm not posting to the outages list since I haven't seen anything 
> there already, and have only tested from my House. Just curious if 
> anyone else is seeing anything.
>
> I'm Native IPv6, Google/youtube are intermittently loading on multiple 
> machines.  Error is related to HTTPS/SSL versions not matching what 
> was requested (of course I just cleared the error, and now it's 
> working again).  Refreshing the page after a couple seconds seems to 
> fix it.  Been having this happen on and off for most of the day.
>
> There is no packetloss with ICMP.
>
> Nate

Re: [AFMUG] Strange CTM/CMM behavior

[Ken Hohhof]

You could check here for GPS testing advisories:
http://www.faasafety.gov/SPANS/notices_public.aspx


From: Gabriel Pike 
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 8:09 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Strange CTM/CMM behavior

No. I am in a rural area of Michigan. 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of David
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 8:49 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Strange CTM/CMM behavior

 

Are you close to a military base,Airport or coastline?

On 01/19/2015 06:57 AM, Gabriel Pike wrote:

  I had something strange happen yesterday Sunday the 18th between 7 AM and 10 
PM where 3 different devices in 3 different locations all went crazy. During 
this time period GPS would drop and re-establish repeatedly. The strange thing 
is after 10 PM it stopped. We have had no change in weather or any other 
condition that would cause this. Has anyone else seen this kind of odd behavior?

  �

  Gabriel Pike

 

Re: [AFMUG] Strange CTM/CMM behavior

[Bill Prince]

Do you monitor satellite status via SNMP?  We don't show any 
low-satellite periods in the last week, but you might be seeing issues 
due to antenna placement.


bp


On 1/19/2015 4:57 AM, Gabriel Pike wrote:


I had something strange happen yesterday Sunday the 18^th between 7 AM 
and 10 PM where 3 different devices in 3 different locations all went 
crazy. During this time period GPS would drop and re-establish 
repeatedly. The strange thing is after 10 PM it stopped. We have had 
no change in weather or any other condition that would cause this. Has 
anyone else seen this kind of odd behavior?


Gabriel Pike

[AFMUG] OT. Hello..hello answer your phone

[Jaime Solorza]

http://www.hngn.com/articles/61574/20150119/alien-radio-burst-outside-milky-way-discovered-scientists-setting-trap.htm

Jaime Solorza

Re: [AFMUG] 450AP interfering with 900Mhz Cambium

[Andreas Wiatowski]

Yes.  We did power down all the other AP’s on the CMM4 except for the 900 AP…. 
Same issue.  Power down the suspect 450 and power up the other 450 on the same 
tower…no issues.

Bad hardware out of the box.

Cheers,

Andreas Wiatowski, CEO
Silo Wireless Inc.
1-866-727-4138 x-600
Web: www.silowireless.com
Facebook: www.facebook.com/silowireless
Twitter: @silowireless

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Colin Stanners
Sent: January 18, 2015 9:02 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450AP interfering with 900Mhz Cambium

Were there other APs on the tower, to rule out a strange voltage issue?

On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Andreas Wiatowski 
mailto:andr...@silowireless.com>> wrote:
I just wanted to share that last week we had an issue with a 450 5Ghz ap . 
Every time it was powered up…even without a frequency carrier, the co-located 
900 AP would drop 50% of the subscribers.  We suspected a leaky circuit board 
and swapped the AP.  Voila! All 900 subs stay up.

We are submitting an RMA..but indeed..the AP had a bad board.

Cheers,

Andreas Wiatowski, CEO
Silo Wireless Inc.
1-866-727-4138 x-600
Web: www.silowireless.com
Facebook: www.facebook.com/silowireless
Twitter: @silowireless

[AFMUG] Laying your own fiber?

[Zephyr Broadband]

So we've started looking at trenching our own fiber but we've run into a
couple roadblocks and I thought I'd reach out to the list and see if others
have run into similar issues. Obviously this is location and jurisdiction
dependent, but we can't seem to get anyone from City Hall to return our
calls or offer any hints as to where to look.

How did you get permission to use utility right of ways and easements? Did
you file for CLEC certification? Did you look at a CATV franchise agreement
with your city? Did you approach each landowner and negotiate your own
easement?

Also, do any of you offer triple play services? We haven't had a lot of
luck looking into distribution agreements for TV services either.

Any info or resources would be appreciated!

Re: [AFMUG] Laying your own fiber?

[Chuck Hogg]

AFAIK, the 2 primary ways to get access to ROW for most of the US is a
Franchise agreement and/or CLEC certification.  This gets you into the
Utility ROW Easements without issues.  Many properties have ROW Utility
easements.

If you plan to do Video, you might as well do the CATV franchise
agreement.  This typically gets you into the Utility ROW easements and
easements set aside for the city.​

Some states have allowed broadband providers to use utility easements.

Unless you are prepared to spend a minimum of $250k for video, I recommend
you run away.  Dish just launch phase 1 of their internet video offering.
More channels will follow.   I don't think you'll ever make your money back
here, unless you plan to be at 5k subs.

Re: [AFMUG] Laying your own fiber?

[Jason McKemie]

Yeah, I'd stay away from video.  It is nice if you're competing with
cablecos, but the payoff just isn't there.  I'd try just blowing the
cableco's internet speeds out of the water to stay competitive.

On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 12:04 PM, Chuck Hogg  wrote:

> AFAIK, the 2 primary ways to get access to ROW for most of the US is a
> Franchise agreement and/or CLEC certification.  This gets you into the
> Utility ROW Easements without issues.  Many properties have ROW Utility
> easements.
>
> If you plan to do Video, you might as well do the CATV franchise
> agreement.  This typically gets you into the Utility ROW easements and
> easements set aside for the city.​
>
> Some states have allowed broadband providers to use utility easements.
>
> Unless you are prepared to spend a minimum of $250k for video, I recommend
> you run away.  Dish just launch phase 1 of their internet video offering.
> More channels will follow.   I don't think you'll ever make your money back
> here, unless you plan to be at 5k subs.
>

Re: [AFMUG] Laying your own fiber?

[Zephyr Broadband]

>
> AFAIK, the 2 primary ways to get access to ROW for most of the US is a
> Franchise agreement and/or CLEC certification.  This gets you into the
> Utility ROW Easements without issues.  Many properties have ROW Utility
> easements.
>
> If you plan to do Video, you might as well do the CATV franchise
> agreement.  This typically gets you into the Utility ROW easements and
> easements set aside for the city.​
>

And therein lies the rub. The Colorado PUC stated last week that they are
cracking down on data-only providers filing for CLEC certification simply
for ROW access. Now, if you want certification, you have to have a Class 5
switch and must plan to originate access traffic or they'll deny the
application on the spot.

>
> Some states have allowed broadband providers to use utility easements.
>
> Unless you are prepared to spend a minimum of $250k for video, I recommend
> you run away.  Dish just launch phase 1 of their internet video offering.
> More channels will follow.   I don't think you'll ever make your money back
> here, unless you plan to be at 5k subs.
>

Yeah, saw their plans for sling.com pop up last week. Ouch. $250k. That's
expensive, but considering the PUCs stance on data only providers...it
might be cheaper than jumping into the facilities-based telecom game 15
years too late.

Re: [AFMUG] Laying your own fiber?

[Zephyr Broadband]

We're doing that where we can, but the lack of reasonable tower/roof access
makes network planning a pain in the ass. We had looked at FTTH in select
neighborhoods, but getting ROW acccess has proven to be tougher than we
expected. Shame on us for wanting to compete with the incumbant telco &
cablecos.

On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 11:10 AM, Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> Yeah, I'd stay away from video.  It is nice if you're competing with
> cablecos, but the payoff just isn't there.  I'd try just blowing the
> cableco's internet speeds out of the water to stay competitive.
>
> On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 12:04 PM, Chuck Hogg  wrote:
>
>> AFAIK, the 2 primary ways to get access to ROW for most of the US is a
>> Franchise agreement and/or CLEC certification.  This gets you into the
>> Utility ROW Easements without issues.  Many properties have ROW Utility
>> easements.
>>
>> If you plan to do Video, you might as well do the CATV franchise
>> agreement.  This typically gets you into the Utility ROW easements and
>> easements set aside for the city.​
>>
>> Some states have allowed broadband providers to use utility easements.
>>
>> Unless you are prepared to spend a minimum of $250k for video, I
>> recommend you run away.  Dish just launch phase 1 of their internet video
>> offering.  More channels will follow.   I don't think you'll ever make your
>> money back here, unless you plan to be at 5k subs.
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Laying your own fiber?

[Hass, Douglas A.]

One other option, depending on local politics, is to get the local ordinance 
redrafted to accommodate broadband providers in the ROW easements.  Where doing 
the CATV franchise agreement isn’t an option for whatever reason, this is a 
relatively painless route to try, too.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 12:04 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Laying your own fiber?

AFAIK, the 2 primary ways to get access to ROW for most of the US is a 
Franchise agreement and/or CLEC certification.  This gets you into the Utility 
ROW Easements without issues.  Many properties have ROW Utility easements.

If you plan to do Video, you might as well do the CATV franchise agreement.  
This typically gets you into the Utility ROW easements and easements set aside 
for the city.​

Some states have allowed broadband providers to use utility easements.

Unless you are prepared to spend a minimum of $250k for video, I recommend you 
run away.  Dish just launch phase 1 of their internet video offering.  More 
channels will follow.   I don't think you'll ever make your money back here, 
unless you plan to be at 5k subs.
Doug Hass
Associate
312.786.6502

Franczek Radelet P.C.
Celebrating 20 Years | 1994-2014

300 South Wacker Drive
Suite 3400
Chicago, IL 60606
312.986.0300 - Main
312.986.9192 - Fax
www.franczek.com

Circular 230 Disclosure: Under requirements imposed by the Internal Revenue 
Service, we inform you that, unless specifically stated otherwise, any federal 
tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments) is not 
intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purposes of (i) 
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environment before printing this email 

Re: [AFMUG] Laying your own fiber?

[Chuck Hogg]

Then I guess your option is to get a franchise.  Doesn't matter if you are
doing video or not.

Regards,
Chuck

On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 1:14 PM, Zephyr Broadband  wrote:

> We're doing that where we can, but the lack of reasonable tower/roof
> access makes network planning a pain in the ass. We had looked at FTTH in
> select neighborhoods, but getting ROW acccess has proven to be tougher than
> we expected. Shame on us for wanting to compete with the incumbant telco &
> cablecos.
>
> On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 11:10 AM, Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
>> Yeah, I'd stay away from video.  It is nice if you're competing with
>> cablecos, but the payoff just isn't there.  I'd try just blowing the
>> cableco's internet speeds out of the water to stay competitive.
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 12:04 PM, Chuck Hogg  wrote:
>>
>>> AFAIK, the 2 primary ways to get access to ROW for most of the US is a
>>> Franchise agreement and/or CLEC certification.  This gets you into the
>>> Utility ROW Easements without issues.  Many properties have ROW Utility
>>> easements.
>>>
>>> If you plan to do Video, you might as well do the CATV franchise
>>> agreement.  This typically gets you into the Utility ROW easements and
>>> easements set aside for the city.​
>>>
>>> Some states have allowed broadband providers to use utility easements.
>>>
>>> Unless you are prepared to spend a minimum of $250k for video, I
>>> recommend you run away.  Dish just launch phase 1 of their internet video
>>> offering.  More channels will follow.   I don't think you'll ever make your
>>> money back here, unless you plan to be at 5k subs.
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?

[SmarterBroadband]

You could also look at the Exalt ExtremeAir. 

2 x 80 Mhz channels with X-Pic all in one all-outdoor unit.

Does a Gig.

Adam

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of TJ Trout
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:48 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?

 

What is my least expensive option for getting  more bandwidth in 6ghz or 11ghz 
? Right now I have 366mbps (56mhz 256qam) would like double or better?

 

On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Jon Langeler  wrote:

compression yields a lot at 64byte packet, but yields much less at 256byte and 
larger...it's a curve. 

 

Also if your upgrading a long 5GHz link with 6Ghz, you'll probably be slightly 
better off even if the calcs say 'low uptime'. 11GHz will 'swing' during rains 
more than 6GHz obviously so the higher gain from the same size dishes helps 
there. Licensing a wide single polarity is always cheapest...

 

-Jon

 

Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 16, 2015, at 3:13 PM, Josh Luthman  wrote:

That sounds backwards.  Why would smaller packets net you greater throughput?




 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 3:10 PM, Jeremy  wrote:

It's really 60.  Ours does 1.4Gbps, 700Mbps full duplex (if every packet was a 
VoIP packet)...500Mbps FDX is a more realistic real-world TCP throughput that 
you can expect.

 

On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Hardy, Tim  wrote:

It’s really 60!

 


60 MHz 


CH

N(

G(


1

5960.0250

6212.0650


2

6019.3250

6271.3650


3

6078.6250

6330.6650


4

6137.9250

6389.9650

 

As far as XPIC on 30 MHz vs. 60 MHz it all depends on the environment.  If 
x-pol is needed to clear a channel, it isn’t going to be available on the 
orthogonal polarization. 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 2:59 PM


To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?

 

In 6 GHz, is 60 really 60, or is it 30+30 contiguous?

 

I’m thinking it might be easier to do XPIC on the same 30 MHz channel than to 
find 60 MHz of available spectrum, but I haven’t done anything in 6 GHz, mainly 
because of antenna size.  Yes the FCC did relax the antenna rules to allow down 
to a 3 ft dish, but realistically that won’t give you enough gain unless it’s a 
short link, especially given that 6 GHz is subject to multipath fades.  So 
bottom line I haven’t kept up with what you can do in 6 GHz, so I could easily 
be wrong or behind the times.

 

From: Mike Hammett   

Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:24 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?

 

30 MHz in the 7 GHz band, 30 MHz in some 6 GHz, 60 MHz in the rest of 6 GHz...  
IIRC.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

 


  _  


From: "Ken Hohhof" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:18:19 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?

I would first talk to your frequency coordinator about what FCC channel widths 
can be licensed in what bands.  I’m not sure 40 MHz channels exist in 6 GHz, 
and I believe you’ll find an 80 MHz channel width means you need to license 2 
adjacent channels.  There is no benefit to having a radio that does 80 MHz 
channels if that’s not what you license, other than maybe having consistent 
equipment across your network to simplify sparing.

 

 

From: TJ Trout   

Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:05 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?

 

11ghz integra doesn't exist, and when it does in april it's just 60mhz! Should 
I even be considering a 60mhz radio? Seems like 80 is the way to go?

 

On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Gino Villarini  wrote:

11 ghz integra

 

 

 

Gino A. Villarini

President

Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.

www.aeronetpr.com   

@aeronetpr

 

 

 

From: TJ Trout 
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
Date: Friday, January 16, 2015 at 2:57 PM
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?

 

I guess what I'm interested in is what is the cheapest 6 or 11ghz 80mhz radio 
in terms of bits/hz or should I just use the lumina in 2+0?

On Jan 16, 2015 10:54 AM, "TJ Trout"  wrote:

So I have a lumina on 11ghz 56mhz that I need to upgrade, what is the most 
economical option for more capacity ? Saf doesn't really have much besides 2+0 
right now (maybe that's my best option?) So I was thinking about trying another 
brand something with maybe 80mhz channels ? What are my options that won't cost 
an arm and a leg ?

 

 

 

 

 

[AFMUG] 450 colo'd with FSK

[Timothy D. McNabb]

Pretty sure this has been discussed but I have been looking for a document that 
proves whether or not this is true. When you colo FSK with 450 in the same band 
(ie 5.7GHz) the downlink percentages need to the same so that no sync issues 
present themselves, correct?

-Tim

Re: [AFMUG] 450 colo'd with FSK

[Josh Baird]

You should need to make sure they are timed correctly.  It's definitely
possible.  There should be a document on Cambium's support site (sorry, I
don't have it handy) describing the procedure.

Josh

On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 1:32 PM, Timothy D. McNabb 
wrote:

> Pretty sure this has been discussed but I have been looking for a document
> that proves whether or not this is true. When you colo FSK with 450 in the
> same band (ie 5.7GHz) the downlink percentages need to the same so that no
> sync issues present themselves, correct?
>
>
>
> -Tim
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Laying your own fiber?

[Mark - Myakka Technologies]

Wow, I guess we were lucky.  We just asked the county and they let us
submit permits for the use of the ROW.

In our case we used an engineer that has been working with the county
for years to draw up the permits.

You may want to start talking to some of the local engineers or
contractors that do ROW work.  They seem to have more answers then the
county people.





-- 
Best regards,
 Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

Proud Sponsor of the Myakka City Relay For Life
http://www.RelayForLife.org/MyakkaCityFL

Please Donate at 
http://main.acsevents.org/site/TR/RelayForLife/RFLFY12FL?team_id=1030009&pg=team&fr_id=37555
--

Monday, January 19, 2015, 1:18:53 PM, you wrote:

CH> Then I guess your option is to get a franchise.ￜ Doesn't
CH> matter if you are doing video or not.

CH> Regards,
CH> Chuck


CH> On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 1:14 PM, Zephyr Broadband
CH>  wrote:
CH> We're doing that where we can, but the lack of reasonable
CH> tower/roof access makes network planning a pain in the ass. We had
CH> looked at FTTH in select neighborhoods, but getting ROW acccess
CH> has proven to be tougher than we expected. Shame on us for wanting
CH> to compete with the incumbant telco   cablecos.ￜ

CH> On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 11:10 AM, Jason McKemie
CH>  wrote:
CH> Yeah, I'd stay away from video.ￜ It is nice if you're
CH> competing with cablecos, but the payoff just isn't there.ￜ I'd try
CH> just blowing the cableco's internet speeds out of the water to
CH> stay competitive.

CH> On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 12:04 PM, Chuck Hogg  wrote:
CH> AFAIK, the 2 primary ways to get access to ROW for most of
CH> the US is a Franchise agreement and/or CLEC certification.ￜ This
CH> gets you into the Utility ROW Easements without issues.ￜ Many
CH> properties have ROW Utility easements.


CH> If you plan to do Video, you might as well do the CATV
CH> franchise agreement.ￜ This typically gets you into the Utility ROW
CH> easements and easements set aside for the city.?


CH> Some states have allowed broadband providers to use utility easements.


CH> Unless you are prepared to spend a minimum of $250k for
CH> video, I recommend you run away.ￜ Dish just launch phase 1 of
CH> their internet video offering.ￜ More channels will follow. ￜ I
CH> don't think you'll ever make your money back here, unless you plan
CH> to be at 5k subs.


















  


---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection 
is active.
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Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?

[Steve Utick]

My problem is at this point, I've had so many problems with Exalt that I'm
not sure I'd buy another one of their radios period



On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 11:31 AM, SmarterBroadband <
li...@smarterbroadband.com> wrote:

> You could also look at the Exalt ExtremeAir.
>
> 2 x 80 Mhz channels with X-Pic all in one all-outdoor unit.
>
> Does a Gig.
>
> Adam
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *TJ Trout
> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 1:48 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>
>
>
> What is my least expensive option for getting  more bandwidth in 6ghz or
> 11ghz ? Right now I have 366mbps (56mhz 256qam) would like double or better?
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Jon Langeler 
> wrote:
>
> compression yields a lot at 64byte packet, but yields much less at 256byte
> and larger...it's a curve.
>
>
>
> Also if your upgrading a long 5GHz link with 6Ghz, you'll probably be
> slightly better off even if the calcs say 'low uptime'. 11GHz will 'swing'
> during rains more than 6GHz obviously so the higher gain from the same size
> dishes helps there. Licensing a wide single polarity is always cheapest...
>
>
>
> -Jon
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Jan 16, 2015, at 3:13 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
> That sounds backwards.  Why would smaller packets net you greater
> throughput?
>
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 3:10 PM, Jeremy  wrote:
>
> It's really 60.  Ours does 1.4Gbps, 700Mbps full duplex (if every packet
> was a VoIP packet)...500Mbps FDX is a more realistic real-world TCP
> throughput that you can expect.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Hardy, Tim  wrote:
>
> It’s really 60!
>
>
>
> *60 MHz *
>
> *CH*
>
> *N(*
>
> *G(*
>
> 1
>
> 5960.0250
>
> 6212.0650
>
> 2
>
> 6019.3250
>
> 6271.3650
>
> 3
>
> 6078.6250
>
> 6330.6650
>
> 4
>
> 6137.9250
>
> 6389.9650
>
>
>
> As far as XPIC on 30 MHz vs. 60 MHz it all depends on the environment.  If
> x-pol is needed to clear a channel, it isn’t going to be available on the
> orthogonal polarization.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 2:59 PM
>
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>
>
>
> In 6 GHz, is 60 really 60, or is it 30+30 contiguous?
>
>
>
> I’m thinking it might be easier to do XPIC on the same 30 MHz channel than
> to find 60 MHz of available spectrum, but I haven’t done anything in 6 GHz,
> mainly because of antenna size.  Yes the FCC did relax the antenna rules to
> allow down to a 3 ft dish, but realistically that won’t give you enough
> gain unless it’s a short link, especially given that 6 GHz is subject to
> multipath fades.  So bottom line I haven’t kept up with what you can do in
> 6 GHz, so I could easily be wrong or behind the times.
>
>
>
> *From:* Mike Hammett 
>
> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 1:24 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>
>
>
> 30 MHz in the 7 GHz band, 30 MHz in some 6 GHz, 60 MHz in the rest of 6
> GHz...  IIRC.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
> --
>
> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, January 16, 2015 1:18:19 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>
> I would first talk to your frequency coordinator about what FCC channel
> widths can be licensed in what bands.  I’m not sure 40 MHz channels exist
> in 6 GHz, and I believe you’ll find an 80 MHz channel width means you need
> to license 2 adjacent channels.  There is no benefit to having a radio that
> does 80 MHz channels if that’s not what you license, other than maybe
> having consistent equipment across your network to simplify sparing.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* TJ Trout 
>
> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 1:05 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>
>
>
> 11ghz integra doesn't exist, and when it does in april it's just 60mhz!
> Should I even be considering a 60mhz radio? Seems like 80 is the way to go?
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Gino Villarini 
> wrote:
>
> 11 ghz integra
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Gino A. Villarini
>
> President
>
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>
> www.aeronetpr.com
>
> @aeronetpr
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *TJ Trout 
> *Reply-To: *"af@afmug.com" 
> *Date: *Friday, January 16, 2015 at 2:57 PM
> *To: *"af@afmug.com" 
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>
>
>
> I guess what I'm interested in is what is the cheapest 6 or 11ghz 80mhz
> radio in terms of bits/hz or should I just use the lumina in 2+0?
>
> On Jan 16, 2015 10:54 AM, "TJ Trout"  wrote:
>
> So I have a lumina on 11ghz 56mhz that I need to upgrade, what is th

Re: [AFMUG] 450 colo'd with FSK

[Ken Hohhof]

You need to use the frame calculator, the timing parameters like downlink 
percent will be different between FSK and OFDM to get them to line up.

Doing a quick search at the Cambium website, I think this is the document you 
want:
http://community.cambiumnetworks.com/bstrc49894/attachments/bstrc49894/kb_pmp_configuration_examples/3/1/Frame%20calculator%20Quick-guide%20FSK_OFDM.pdf


From: Timothy D. McNabb 
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 12:32 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] 450 colo'd with FSK

Pretty sure this has been discussed but I have been looking for a document that 
proves whether or not this is true. When you colo FSK with 450 in the same band 
(ie 5.7GHz) the downlink percentages need to the same so that no sync issues 
present themselves, correct?

 

-Tim

 

Re: [AFMUG] Laying your own fiber?

[Mark Radabaugh]

I spent a bunch of time researching this in Ohio.

Ohio has regulations in place for pole attach / duct access for ISP’s along 
with a requirement for tariffed rates from the pole owners.  Curiously even 
though as an ISP we can go on the poles, we still have to obtain permission to 
be in whatever right-of-way the poles are in.   If Edison obtained public or 
private ROW for the pole line, we have to get our own permission to be in that 
ROW from whoever granted it.

Ohio does not have specific regulations for access into public ROW.  They don’t 
specifically prohibit it, so it’s up to the discretion of the local political 
authority - typically the township, village, county, city, or ODOT (department 
of transportation) to permit or deny.   ODOT has so far been cooperative at 
least in our district - they are more concerned about your ‘traffic control 
plan’ than anything else, and you are not allowed to parallel and limited 
access highway but we can cross them pretty much at will.   In dealing with the 
township and county level we have not had an issue yet, but we also have not 
done much yet.

Mark


> On Jan 19, 2015, at 1:40 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies  
> wrote:
> 
> Wow, I guess we were lucky.  We just asked the county and they let us
> submit permits for the use of the ROW.
> 
> In our case we used an engineer that has been working with the county
> for years to draw up the permits.
> 
> You may want to start talking to some of the local engineers or
> contractors that do ROW work.  They seem to have more answers then the
> county people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Best regards,
> Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com
> 
> Myakka Technologies, Inc.
> www.MyakkaTech.com
> 
> Proud Sponsor of the Myakka City Relay For Life
> http://www.RelayForLife.org/MyakkaCityFL
> 
> Please Donate at 
> http://main.acsevents.org/site/TR/RelayForLife/RFLFY12FL?team_id=1030009&pg=team&fr_id=37555
> --
> 
> Monday, January 19, 2015, 1:18:53 PM, you wrote:
> 
> CH> Then I guess your option is to get a franchise.ￜ Doesn't
> CH> matter if you are doing video or not.
> 
> CH> Regards,
> CH> Chuck
> 
> 
> CH> On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 1:14 PM, Zephyr Broadband
> CH>  wrote:
> CH> We're doing that where we can, but the lack of reasonable
> CH> tower/roof access makes network planning a pain in the ass. We had
> CH> looked at FTTH in select neighborhoods, but getting ROW acccess
> CH> has proven to be tougher than we expected. Shame on us for wanting
> CH> to compete with the incumbant telco   cablecos.ￜ
> 
> CH> On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 11:10 AM, Jason McKemie
> CH>  wrote:
> CH> Yeah, I'd stay away from video.ￜ It is nice if you're
> CH> competing with cablecos, but the payoff just isn't there.ￜ I'd try
> CH> just blowing the cableco's internet speeds out of the water to
> CH> stay competitive.
> 
> CH> On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 12:04 PM, Chuck Hogg  wrote:
> CH> AFAIK, the 2 primary ways to get access to ROW for most of
> CH> the US is a Franchise agreement and/or CLEC certification.ￜ This
> CH> gets you into the Utility ROW Easements without issues.ￜ Many
> CH> properties have ROW Utility easements.
> 
> 
> CH> If you plan to do Video, you might as well do the CATV
> CH> franchise agreement.ￜ This typically gets you into the Utility ROW
> CH> easements and easements set aside for the city.?
> 
> 
> CH> Some states have allowed broadband providers to use utility easements.
> 
> 
> CH> Unless you are prepared to spend a minimum of $250k for
> CH> video, I recommend you run away.ￜ Dish just launch phase 1 of
> CH> their internet video offering.ￜ More channels will follow. ￜ I
> CH> don't think you'll ever make your money back here, unless you plan
> CH> to be at 5k subs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus 
> protection is active.
> http://www.avast.com
> 

Re: [AFMUG] 450 colo'd with FSK

[Sean Heskett]

works great.

as others have said you need to use the frame calculator.

if you need help with the calculator let me know and i can help you.

-sean


On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 11:32 AM, Timothy D. McNabb 
wrote:

> Pretty sure this has been discussed but I have been looking for a document
> that proves whether or not this is true. When you colo FSK with 450 in the
> same band (ie 5.7GHz) the downlink percentages need to the same so that no
> sync issues present themselves, correct?
>
>
>
> -Tim
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Laying your own fiber?

[Chuck McCown]

Assuming you are going underground, simply apply for an excavation permit. 

If they ask, tell them you are a long haul fiber company similar to Level3 and 
AT&T.
You do not need to be a CLEC.  Local ROW jurisdictions don’t even know what 
that is.
You may need a franchise agreement.  That depends on the city or county.  But 
that is straightforward.

If on poles, much more paperwork and regulation.  

From: Zephyr Broadband 
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 10:56 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] Laying your own fiber?

So we've started looking at trenching our own fiber but we've run into a couple 
roadblocks and I thought I'd reach out to the list and see if others have run 
into similar issues. Obviously this is location and jurisdiction dependent, but 
we can't seem to get anyone from City Hall to return our calls or offer any 
hints as to where to look.  

How did you get permission to use utility right of ways and easements? Did you 
file for CLEC certification? Did you look at a CATV franchise agreement with 
your city? Did you approach each landowner and negotiate your own easement? 

Also, do any of you offer triple play services? We haven't had a lot of luck 
looking into distribution agreements for TV services either. 

Any info or resources would be appreciated! 

Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?

[Ken Hohhof]

What kind of problems, and what model?

The G2 links we put in just worked.  Granted that is their entry level model, 
maybe less to go wrong.


From: Steve Utick 
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 12:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?

My problem is at this point, I've had so many problems with Exalt that I'm not 
sure I'd buy another one of their radios period




On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 11:31 AM, SmarterBroadband  
wrote:

  You could also look at the Exalt ExtremeAir. 

  2 x 80 Mhz channels with X-Pic all in one all-outdoor unit.

  Does a Gig.

  Adam



  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of TJ Trout
  Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:48 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?



  What is my least expensive option for getting  more bandwidth in 6ghz or 
11ghz ? Right now I have 366mbps (56mhz 256qam) would like double or better?



  On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Jon Langeler  
wrote:

  compression yields a lot at 64byte packet, but yields much less at 256byte 
and larger...it's a curve. 



  Also if your upgrading a long 5GHz link with 6Ghz, you'll probably be 
slightly better off even if the calcs say 'low uptime'. 11GHz will 'swing' 
during rains more than 6GHz obviously so the higher gain from the same size 
dishes helps there. Licensing a wide single polarity is always cheapest...



  -Jon



  Sent from my iPhone



  On Jan 16, 2015, at 3:13 PM, Josh Luthman  wrote:
That sounds backwards.  Why would smaller packets net you greater 
throughput?






Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 3:10 PM, Jeremy  wrote:

  It's really 60.  Ours does 1.4Gbps, 700Mbps full duplex (if every packet 
was a VoIP packet)...500Mbps FDX is a more realistic real-world TCP throughput 
that you can expect.



  On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Hardy, Tim  wrote:

It’s really 60!



  60 MHz 
 
  CH
 N(
 G(
 
  1
 5960.0250
 6212.0650
 
  2
 6019.3250
 6271.3650
 
  3
 6078.6250
 6330.6650
 
  4
 6137.9250
 6389.9650
 



As far as XPIC on 30 MHz vs. 60 MHz it all depends on the environment.  
If x-pol is needed to clear a channel, it isn’t going to be available on the 
orthogonal polarization. 



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 2:59 PM


To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?



In 6 GHz, is 60 really 60, or is it 30+30 contiguous?



I’m thinking it might be easier to do XPIC on the same 30 MHz channel 
than to find 60 MHz of available spectrum, but I haven’t done anything in 6 
GHz, mainly because of antenna size.  Yes the FCC did relax the antenna rules 
to allow down to a 3 ft dish, but realistically that won’t give you enough gain 
unless it’s a short link, especially given that 6 GHz is subject to multipath 
fades.  So bottom line I haven’t kept up with what you can do in 6 GHz, so I 
could easily be wrong or behind the times.



From: Mike Hammett 

Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:24 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?



30 MHz in the 7 GHz band, 30 MHz in some 6 GHz, 60 MHz in the rest of 6 
GHz...  IIRC.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com






From: "Ken Hohhof" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:18:19 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?

I would first talk to your frequency coordinator about what FCC channel 
widths can be licensed in what bands.  I’m not sure 40 MHz channels exist in 6 
GHz, and I believe you’ll find an 80 MHz channel width means you need to 
license 2 adjacent channels.  There is no benefit to having a radio that does 
80 MHz channels if that’s not what you license, other than maybe having 
consistent equipment across your network to simplify sparing.





From: TJ Trout 

Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:05 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?



11ghz integra doesn't exist, and when it does in april it's just 60mhz! 
Should I even be considering a 60mhz radio? Seems like 80 is the way to go?



On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Gino Villarini  
wrote:

11 ghz integra







  

Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?

[Dan Petermann]

I’m curious also. I have 13 ExtremeAir links, and a few G2 and ExploreAir.


On Jan 19, 2015, at 12:15 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> What kind of problems, and what model?
>  
> The G2 links we put in just worked.  Granted that is their entry level model, 
> maybe less to go wrong.
>  
>  
> From: Steve Utick
> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 12:46 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>  
> My problem is at this point, I've had so many problems with Exalt that I'm 
> not sure I'd buy another one of their radios period
> 
> 
>  
> On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 11:31 AM, SmarterBroadband 
>  wrote:
> You could also look at the Exalt ExtremeAir.
> 
> 2 x 80 Mhz channels with X-Pic all in one all-outdoor unit.
> 
> Does a Gig.
> 
> Adam
> 
>  
> 
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of TJ Trout
> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:48 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
> 
>  
> 
> What is my least expensive option for getting  more bandwidth in 6ghz or 
> 11ghz ? Right now I have 366mbps (56mhz 256qam) would like double or better?
> 
>  
> 
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Jon Langeler  
> wrote:
> 
> compression yields a lot at 64byte packet, but yields much less at 256byte 
> and larger...it's a curve.
> 
>  
> 
> Also if your upgrading a long 5GHz link with 6Ghz, you'll probably be 
> slightly better off even if the calcs say 'low uptime'. 11GHz will 'swing' 
> during rains more than 6GHz obviously so the higher gain from the same size 
> dishes helps there. Licensing a wide single polarity is always cheapest...
> 
>  
> 
> -Jon
> 
>  
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>  
> On Jan 16, 2015, at 3:13 PM, Josh Luthman  wrote:
> That sounds backwards.  Why would smaller packets net you greater throughput?
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
>  
> 
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 3:10 PM, Jeremy  wrote:
> 
> It's really 60.  Ours does 1.4Gbps, 700Mbps full duplex (if every packet was 
> a VoIP packet)...500Mbps FDX is a more realistic real-world TCP throughput 
> that you can expect.
> 
>  
> 
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Hardy, Tim  wrote:
> 
> It’s really 60!
> 
>  
> 
> 60 MHz
> 
> CH
> 
> N(
> 
> G(
> 
> 1
> 
> 5960.0250
> 
> 6212.0650
> 
> 2
> 
> 6019.3250
> 
> 6271.3650
> 
> 3
> 
> 6078.6250
> 
> 6330.6650
> 
> 4
> 
> 6137.9250
> 
> 6389.9650
> 
>  
> 
> As far as XPIC on 30 MHz vs. 60 MHz it all depends on the environment.  If 
> x-pol is needed to clear a channel, it isn’t going to be available on the 
> orthogonal polarization.
> 
>  
> 
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 2:59 PM
> 
> 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
> 
>  
> 
> In 6 GHz, is 60 really 60, or is it 30+30 contiguous?
> 
>  
> 
> I’m thinking it might be easier to do XPIC on the same 30 MHz channel than to 
> find 60 MHz of available spectrum, but I haven’t done anything in 6 GHz, 
> mainly because of antenna size.  Yes the FCC did relax the antenna rules to 
> allow down to a 3 ft dish, but realistically that won’t give you enough gain 
> unless it’s a short link, especially given that 6 GHz is subject to multipath 
> fades.  So bottom line I haven’t kept up with what you can do in 6 GHz, so I 
> could easily be wrong or behind the times.
> 
>  
> 
> From: Mike Hammett
> 
> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:24 PM
> 
> To: af@afmug.com
> 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
> 
>  
> 
> 30 MHz in the 7 GHz band, 30 MHz in some 6 GHz, 60 MHz in the rest of 6 
> GHz...  IIRC.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
> 
>  
> 
> From: "Ken Hohhof" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:18:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
> 
> I would first talk to your frequency coordinator about what FCC channel 
> widths can be licensed in what bands.  I’m not sure 40 MHz channels exist in 
> 6 GHz, and I believe you’ll find an 80 MHz channel width means you need to 
> license 2 adjacent channels.  There is no benefit to having a radio that does 
> 80 MHz channels if that’s not what you license, other than maybe having 
> consistent equipment across your network to simplify sparing.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> From: TJ Trout
> 
> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:05 PM
> 
> To: af@afmug.com
> 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
> 
>  
> 
> 11ghz integra doesn't exist, and when it does in april it's just 60mhz! 
> Should I even be considering a 60mhz radio? Seems like 80 is the way to go?
> 
>  
> 
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Gino Villarini  wrote:
> 
> 11 ghz integra
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Gino A. Villarini
> 
> President
> 
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> 
> www.aeronetpr.c

Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?

[Steve Utick]

We have three G2 links in currently.   We had problems with two of those.
One, the radio died a few hours after we put it up.   The other link, the
snout on the radio was too small to fit over the feedhorn on the antenna.
Of course, both of these issues had "Never been seen before" at Exalt.

The ExploreAir LR link we are having problems with, I've been through 5
radios to get two that somewhat work.   We are still off by 8db on the path
though, and have OOB Management issues that they haven't been able to
resolve.We've been fighting this link for a couple of months now, and
still haven't passed traffic over it...



On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 12:24 PM, Dan Petermann  wrote:

> I’m curious also. I have 13 ExtremeAir links, and a few G2 and ExploreAir.
>
>
> On Jan 19, 2015, at 12:15 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>   What kind of problems, and what model?
>
> The G2 links we put in just worked.  Granted that is their entry level
> model, maybe less to go wrong.
>
>
>  *From:* Steve Utick 
> *Sent:* Monday, January 19, 2015 12:46 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>
>  My problem is at this point, I've had so many problems with Exalt that
> I'm not sure I'd buy another one of their radios period
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 11:31 AM, SmarterBroadband <
> li...@smarterbroadband.com> wrote:
>
>>  You could also look at the Exalt ExtremeAir.
>>
>> 2 x 80 Mhz channels with X-Pic all in one all-outdoor unit.
>>
>> Does a Gig.
>>
>> Adam
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *TJ Trout
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 1:48 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>
>>
>>
>> What is my least expensive option for getting  more bandwidth in 6ghz or
>> 11ghz ? Right now I have 366mbps (56mhz 256qam) would like double or better?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Jon Langeler 
>> wrote:
>>
>> compression yields a lot at 64byte packet, but yields much less at
>> 256byte and larger...it's a curve.
>>
>>
>>
>> Also if your upgrading a long 5GHz link with 6Ghz, you'll probably be
>> slightly better off even if the calcs say 'low uptime'. 11GHz will 'swing'
>> during rains more than 6GHz obviously so the higher gain from the same size
>> dishes helps there. Licensing a wide single polarity is always cheapest...
>>
>>
>>
>> -Jon
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>  On Jan 16, 2015, at 3:13 PM, Josh Luthman 
>> wrote:
>>
>>   That sounds backwards.  Why would smaller packets net you greater
>> throughput?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 3:10 PM, Jeremy  wrote:
>>
>>  It's really 60.  Ours does 1.4Gbps, 700Mbps full duplex (if every
>> packet was a VoIP packet)...500Mbps FDX is a more realistic real-world TCP
>> throughput that you can expect.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Hardy, Tim  wrote:
>>
>>   It’s really 60!
>>
>>
>>
>> *60 MHz *
>>
>> *CH*
>>
>> *N(*
>>
>> *G(*
>>
>> 1
>>
>> 5960.0250
>>
>> 6212.0650
>>
>> 2
>>
>> 6019.3250
>>
>> 6271.3650
>>
>> 3
>>
>> 6078.6250
>>
>> 6330.6650
>>
>> 4
>>
>> 6137.9250
>>
>> 6389.9650
>>
>>
>>
>> As far as XPIC on 30 MHz vs. 60 MHz it all depends on the environment.
>> If x-pol is needed to clear a channel, it isn’t going to be available on
>> the orthogonal polarization.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 2:59 PM
>>
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>
>>
>>
>> In 6 GHz, is 60 really 60, or is it 30+30 contiguous?
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m thinking it might be easier to do XPIC on the same 30 MHz channel
>> than to find 60 MHz of available spectrum, but I haven’t done anything in 6
>> GHz, mainly because of antenna size.  Yes the FCC did relax the antenna
>> rules to allow down to a 3 ft dish, but realistically that won’t give you
>> enough gain unless it’s a short link, especially given that 6 GHz is
>> subject to multipath fades.  So bottom line I haven’t kept up with what you
>> can do in 6 GHz, so I could easily be wrong or behind the times.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Mike Hammett 
>>
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 1:24 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>
>>
>>
>> 30 MHz in the 7 GHz band, 30 MHz in some 6 GHz, 60 MHz in the rest of 6
>> GHz...  IIRC.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>  --
>>
>> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Friday, January 16, 2015 1:18:19 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>
>> I would first talk to your frequency coordinator about what FCC channel
>> widths can be licensed in what bands.  I’m not sure 40 MHz 

Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?

[Ken Hohhof]

When were these purchased?  Was it after their organization/ownership change, 
or before that?  Just wondering if that is a factor.

FWIW we found the Exalt slip fit mount was a tight fit on the Radiowaves 
antennas we bought, but it was mainly learning to use the latches to pull it 
tight and not try to do it by hand.  But if you’ve gone through a bunch of 
radios you already know this.  What brand antennas?


From: Steve Utick 
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 1:43 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?

We have three G2 links in currently.   We had problems with two of those.  One, 
the radio died a few hours after we put it up.   The other link, the snout on 
the radio was too small to fit over the feedhorn on the antenna.   Of course, 
both of these issues had "Never been seen before" at Exalt.

The ExploreAir LR link we are having problems with, I've been through 5 radios 
to get two that somewhat work.   We are still off by 8db on the path though, 
and have OOB Management issues that they haven't been able to resolve.We've 
been fighting this link for a couple of months now, and still haven't passed 
traffic over it...




On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 12:24 PM, Dan Petermann  wrote:

  I’m curious also. I have 13 ExtremeAir links, and a few G2 and ExploreAir. 


  On Jan 19, 2015, at 12:15 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:


What kind of problems, and what model?

The G2 links we put in just worked.  Granted that is their entry level 
model, maybe less to go wrong.


From: Steve Utick 
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 12:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?

My problem is at this point, I've had so many problems with Exalt that I'm 
not sure I'd buy another one of their radios period




On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 11:31 AM, SmarterBroadband 
 wrote:

  You could also look at the Exalt ExtremeAir. 

  2 x 80 Mhz channels with X-Pic all in one all-outdoor unit.

  Does a Gig.

  Adam



  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of TJ Trout
  Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:48 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?



  What is my least expensive option for getting  more bandwidth in 6ghz or 
11ghz ? Right now I have 366mbps (56mhz 256qam) would like double or better?



  On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Jon Langeler  
wrote:

  compression yields a lot at 64byte packet, but yields much less at 
256byte and larger...it's a curve. 



  Also if your upgrading a long 5GHz link with 6Ghz, you'll probably be 
slightly better off even if the calcs say 'low uptime'. 11GHz will 'swing' 
during rains more than 6GHz obviously so the higher gain from the same size 
dishes helps there. Licensing a wide single polarity is always cheapest...



  -Jon



  Sent from my iPhone


   
  On Jan 16, 2015, at 3:13 PM, Josh Luthman  
wrote:
That sounds backwards.  Why would smaller packets net you greater 
throughput?






Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 3:10 PM, Jeremy  wrote:

  It's really 60.  Ours does 1.4Gbps, 700Mbps full duplex (if every 
packet was a VoIP packet)...500Mbps FDX is a more realistic real-world TCP 
throughput that you can expect.



  On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Hardy, Tim  
wrote:

It’s really 60!



  60 MHz 
 
  CH
 N(
 G(
 
  1
 5960.0250
 6212.0650
 
  2
 6019.3250
 6271.3650
 
  3
 6078.6250
 6330.6650
 
  4
 6137.9250
 6389.9650
 



As far as XPIC on 30 MHz vs. 60 MHz it all depends on the 
environment.  If x-pol is needed to clear a channel, it isn’t going to be 
available on the orthogonal polarization. 



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 2:59 PM


To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?



In 6 GHz, is 60 really 60, or is it 30+30 contiguous?



I’m thinking it might be easier to do XPIC on the same 30 MHz 
channel than to find 60 MHz of available spectrum, but I haven’t done anything 
in 6 GHz, mainly because of antenna size.  Yes the FCC did relax the antenna 
rules to allow down to a 3 ft dish, but realistically that won’t give you 
enough gain unless it’s a short link, especially given that 6 GHz is subject to 
multipath fades.  S

[AFMUG] Service in Rosehill VA ?

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

anyone?  anyone?


Following is their entered information:


Preferred Contact Method: telephone


James stacey


4197 dr thomas walker rd




Rosehill va 24281


Email Address : jstac...@hotmail.com


Telephone: 8649826102

Re: [AFMUG] Strange CTM/CMM behavior

[Kerry]

I'm in Michigan and yesterday at that time we had a CTM1 timing a 900 
six-pack lose it's mind and got out of sync. Not the first time that has 
happened for us with the CTM's.
We had no http response from the unit, so it was powercycled  around 
2:30ish. After it came back up, all was well with sync again. Our graphs 
show the issue starting roughly the same time.

The issue was cleared after 2:30pm.


On 1/19/2015 9:09 AM, Gabriel Pike wrote:


No. I am in a rural area of Michigan.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *David
*Sent:* Monday, January 19, 2015 8:49 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Strange CTM/CMM behavior

Are you close to a military base,Airport or coastline?

On 01/19/2015 06:57 AM, Gabriel Pike wrote:

I had something strange happen yesterday Sunday the 18^th between
7 AM and 10 PM where 3 different devices in 3 different locations
all went crazy. During this time period GPS would drop and
re-establish repeatedly. The strange thing is after 10 PM it
stopped. We have had no change in weather or any other condition
that would cause this. Has anyone else seen this kind of odd behavior?

�

Gabriel Pike

Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?

[Steve Utick]

All of our Exalt stuff is over the last year.   My personal feeling is that
there are a LOT of quality control issues happening over the last year with
the employee buyout/organization change.

There was no way this one was going to fit.   It just flat wasn't milled
out big enough.   We could have maybe made it fit with a bigger hammer, but
I didn't really want to do that.   When we got the replacement radio, it
fit right on the antenna, so it was clearly a problem with the radio.   I
think it's all been RadioWaves antennas.



On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 12:50 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

>   When were these purchased?  Was it after their organization/ownership
> change, or before that?  Just wondering if that is a factor.
>
> FWIW we found the Exalt slip fit mount was a tight fit on the Radiowaves
> antennas we bought, but it was mainly learning to use the latches to pull
> it tight and not try to do it by hand.  But if you’ve gone through a bunch
> of radios you already know this.  What brand antennas?
>
>
>  *From:* Steve Utick 
> *Sent:* Monday, January 19, 2015 1:43 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>
>  We have three G2 links in currently.   We had problems with two of
> those.  One, the radio died a few hours after we put it up.   The other
> link, the snout on the radio was too small to fit over the feedhorn on the
> antenna.   Of course, both of these issues had "Never been seen before" at
> Exalt.
>
> The ExploreAir LR link we are having problems with, I've been through 5
> radios to get two that somewhat work.   We are still off by 8db on the path
> though, and have OOB Management issues that they haven't been able to
> resolve.We've been fighting this link for a couple of months now, and
> still haven't passed traffic over it...
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 12:24 PM, Dan Petermann  wrote:
>
>> I’m curious also. I have 13 ExtremeAir links, and a few G2 and
>> ExploreAir.
>>
>>
>>  On Jan 19, 2015, at 12:15 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>>   What kind of problems, and what model?
>>
>> The G2 links we put in just worked.  Granted that is their entry level
>> model, maybe less to go wrong.
>>
>>
>>  *From:* Steve Utick 
>> *Sent:* Monday, January 19, 2015 12:46 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>
>>  My problem is at this point, I've had so many problems with Exalt that
>> I'm not sure I'd buy another one of their radios period
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 11:31 AM, SmarterBroadband <
>> li...@smarterbroadband.com> wrote:
>>
>>>  You could also look at the Exalt ExtremeAir.
>>>
>>> 2 x 80 Mhz channels with X-Pic all in one all-outdoor unit.
>>>
>>> Does a Gig.
>>>
>>> Adam
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *TJ Trout
>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 1:48 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What is my least expensive option for getting  more bandwidth in 6ghz or
>>> 11ghz ? Right now I have 366mbps (56mhz 256qam) would like double or better?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Jon Langeler 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> compression yields a lot at 64byte packet, but yields much less at
>>> 256byte and larger...it's a curve.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Also if your upgrading a long 5GHz link with 6Ghz, you'll probably be
>>> slightly better off even if the calcs say 'low uptime'. 11GHz will 'swing'
>>> during rains more than 6GHz obviously so the higher gain from the same size
>>> dishes helps there. Licensing a wide single polarity is always cheapest...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Jon
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>>  On Jan 16, 2015, at 3:13 PM, Josh Luthman 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>   That sounds backwards.  Why would smaller packets net you greater
>>> throughput?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 3:10 PM, Jeremy  wrote:
>>>
>>>   It's really 60.  Ours does 1.4Gbps, 700Mbps full duplex (if every
>>> packet was a VoIP packet)...500Mbps FDX is a more realistic real-world TCP
>>> throughput that you can expect.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Hardy, Tim 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>   It’s really 60!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *60 MHz *
>>>
>>> *CH*
>>>
>>> *N(*
>>>
>>> *G(*
>>>
>>> 1
>>>
>>> 5960.0250
>>>
>>> 6212.0650
>>>
>>> 2
>>>
>>> 6019.3250
>>>
>>> 6271.3650
>>>
>>> 3
>>>
>>> 6078.6250
>>>
>>> 6330.6650
>>>
>>> 4
>>>
>>> 6137.9250
>>>
>>> 6389.9650
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As far as XPIC on 30 MHz vs. 60 MHz it all depends on the environment.
>>> If x-pol is needed to clear a channel, it isn’t going to be available on
>>> the orthogonal polarization.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 2:59 PM
>>>
>>>
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 

Re: [AFMUG] UBNT firewall

[Bill Prince]

Nobody actually using the UBNT firewall?

bp


On 1/14/2015 11:25 AM, Bill Prince wrote:


We notice that any time we use NAT on UBNT we get a lot of login 
attempts via SSH.  Are any of you using the firewall built in? It's 
not clear from the GUI interface whether this affects input or 
forwarding, or both.


What I'd like to do is block any SSH logins that are not in one of our 
subnets, but I'm afraid if I turn it on, it will affect forwarded 
traffic.


Examples?

Re: [AFMUG] Laying your own fiber?

[Mike Hammett]

Go to your state level elected officials. Tell them you need ROW access and 
until now you could have done it by being a CLEC, but the PUC is no longer 
honoring that, so you need them to either pass a new law or convince the PUC to 
stop being dicks. 

Can you rent space on someone else's switch? 

Can they even do that? I don't know, I'm not an attorney. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Zephyr Broadband"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 12:12:31 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Laying your own fiber? 







AFAIK, the 2 primary ways to get access to ROW for most of the US is a 
Franchise agreement and/or CLEC certification. This gets you into the Utility 
ROW Easements without issues. Many properties have ROW Utility easements. 


If you plan to do Video, you might as well do the CATV franchise agreement. 
This typically gets you into the Utility ROW easements and easements set aside 
for the city. 




And therein lies the rub. The Colorado PUC stated last week that they are 
cracking down on data-only providers filing for CLEC certification simply for 
ROW access. Now, if you want certification, you have to have a Class 5 switch 
and must plan to originate access traffic or they'll deny the application on 
the spot. 





Some states have allowed broadband providers to use utility easements. 


Unless you are prepared to spend a minimum of $250k for video, I recommend you 
run away. Dish just launch phase 1 of their internet video offering. More 
channels will follow. I don't think you'll ever make your money back here, 
unless you plan to be at 5k subs. 



Yeah, saw their plans for sling.com pop up last week. Ouch. $250k. That's 
expensive, but considering the PUCs stance on data only providers...it might be 
cheaper than jumping into the facilities-based telecom game 15 years too late. 

Re: [AFMUG] Laying your own fiber?

[Mike Hammett]

See if the various road jurisdictions will just let you in. If you're a CLEC or 
franchise, they have to let you in, but they can just be nice and let you in 
anyway. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Zephyr Broadband"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 11:56:58 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Laying your own fiber? 


So we've started looking at trenching our own fiber but we've run into a couple 
roadblocks and I thought I'd reach out to the list and see if others have run 
into similar issues. Obviously this is location and jurisdiction dependent, but 
we can't seem to get anyone from City Hall to return our calls or offer any 
hints as to where to look. 


How did you get permission to use utility right of ways and easements? Did you 
file for CLEC certification? Did you look at a CATV franchise agreement with 
your city? Did you approach each landowner and negotiate your own easement? 


Also, do any of you offer triple play services? We haven't had a lot of luck 
looking into distribution agreements for TV services either. 


Any info or resources would be appreciated! 

Re: [AFMUG] For sale: MTI mt-484034/nv

[Josh Luthman]

Anyone want this at all?  Going in the trash if not.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 2:49 PM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> MTI 120* 5 ghz vpol
>
> New in the box, opened to get the model number.  Just want it out of here.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>

Re: [AFMUG] Laying your own fiber?

[Chuck McCown]

CLEC certification is not required for ROW access.  That is just someone 
blowing smoke.  What if you wanted to put in a water line to water your cows?  
Or a culvert?  

I would ask for an excavation permit first and deal with the authority over 
that particular ROW.  You have state, city and county roads as well as private 
land owners.  They all will have a different reaction to ROW use.  

CATV folks are not CLECs (at least they don’t have to be) and they get ROW 
access.  You are an IPTV company, you haul netflix.  They have to treat you as 
a peer with the CATV.  

I would pressure any authority to cite you chapter and verse if they deny you.  
Otherwise they are discriminating against you.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 4:04 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Laying your own fiber?

Go to your state level elected officials. Tell them you need ROW access and 
until now you could have done it by being a CLEC, but the PUC is no longer 
honoring that, so you need them to either pass a new law or convince the PUC to 
stop being dicks.

Can you rent space on someone else's switch?

Can they even do that? I don't know, I'm not an attorney.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com





From: "Zephyr Broadband" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 12:12:31 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Laying your own fiber?


  AFAIK, the 2 primary ways to get access to ROW for most of the US is a 
Franchise agreement and/or CLEC certification.  This gets you into the Utility 
ROW Easements without issues.  Many properties have ROW Utility easements. 

  If you plan to do Video, you might as well do the CATV franchise agreement.  
This typically gets you into the Utility ROW easements and easements set aside 
for the city.​

And therein lies the rub. The Colorado PUC stated last week that they are 
cracking down on data-only providers filing for CLEC certification simply for 
ROW access. Now, if you want certification, you have to have a Class 5 switch 
and must plan to originate access traffic or they'll deny the application on 
the spot.  

  Some states have allowed broadband providers to use utility easements.

  Unless you are prepared to spend a minimum of $250k for video, I recommend 
you run away.  Dish just launch phase 1 of their internet video offering.  More 
channels will follow.   I don't think you'll ever make your money back here, 
unless you plan to be at 5k subs.

Yeah, saw their plans for sling.com pop up last week. Ouch. $250k. That's 
expensive, but considering the PUCs stance on data only providers...it might be 
cheaper than jumping into the facilities-based telecom game 15 years too late. 

Re: [AFMUG] Laying your own fiber?

[Erich Kaiser]

In some areas around here as long as you are not providing TV service, you
do not need to do anything with a franchise agreement.  You will even find
some counties are willing to work with you and give you info like what
areas do not have franchise agreements, etc..


On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 5:09 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

>   CLEC certification is not required for ROW access.  That is just
> someone blowing smoke.  What if you wanted to put in a water line to water
> your cows?  Or a culvert?
>
> I would ask for an excavation permit first and deal with the authority
> over that particular ROW.  You have state, city and county roads as well as
> private land owners.  They all will have a different reaction to ROW use.
>
> CATV folks are not CLECs (at least they don’t have to be) and they get ROW
> access.  You are an IPTV company, you haul netflix.  They have to treat you
> as a peer with the CATV.
>
> I would pressure any authority to cite you chapter and verse if they deny
> you.  Otherwise they are discriminating against you.
>
>  *From:* Mike Hammett 
> *Sent:* Monday, January 19, 2015 4:04 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Laying your own fiber?
>
>  Go to your state level elected officials. Tell them you need ROW access
> and until now you could have done it by being a CLEC, but the PUC is no
> longer honoring that, so you need them to either pass a new law or convince
> the PUC to stop being dicks.
>
> Can you rent space on someone else's switch?
>
> Can they even do that? I don't know, I'm not an attorney.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
> --
> *From: *"Zephyr Broadband" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Monday, January 19, 2015 12:12:31 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Laying your own fiber?
>
>   AFAIK, the 2 primary ways to get access to ROW for most of the US is a
>> Franchise agreement and/or CLEC certification.  This gets you into the
>> Utility ROW Easements without issues.  Many properties have ROW Utility
>> easements.
>>
>> If you plan to do Video, you might as well do the CATV franchise
>> agreement.  This typically gets you into the Utility ROW easements and
>> easements set aside for the city.​
>>
>
> And therein lies the rub. The Colorado PUC stated last week that they are
> cracking down on data-only providers filing for CLEC certification simply
> for ROW access. Now, if you want certification, you have to have a Class 5
> switch and must plan to originate access traffic or they'll deny the
> application on the spot.
>
>>
>> Some states have allowed broadband providers to use utility easements.
>>
>> Unless you are prepared to spend a minimum of $250k for video, I
>> recommend you run away.  Dish just launch phase 1 of their internet video
>> offering.  More channels will follow.   I don't think you'll ever make your
>> money back here, unless you plan to be at 5k subs.
>>
>
> Yeah, saw their plans for sling.com pop up last week. Ouch. $250k. That's
> expensive, but considering the PUCs stance on data only providers...it
> might be cheaper than jumping into the facilities-based telecom game 15
> years too late.
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Laying your own fiber?

[Josh Reynolds]

What happens when netflix/sling are considered TV service?

josh reynolds :: chief information officer
spitwspots :: www.spitwspots.com

On 01/19/2015 03:44 PM, Erich Kaiser wrote:

In some areas around here as long as you are not providing TV service, you
do not need to do anything with a franchise agreement.  You will even find
some counties are willing to work with you and give you info like what
areas do not have franchise agreements, etc..


On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 5:09 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:


   CLEC certification is not required for ROW access.  That is just
someone blowing smoke.  What if you wanted to put in a water line to water
your cows?  Or a culvert?

I would ask for an excavation permit first and deal with the authority
over that particular ROW.  You have state, city and county roads as well as
private land owners.  They all will have a different reaction to ROW use.

CATV folks are not CLECs (at least they don’t have to be) and they get ROW
access.  You are an IPTV company, you haul netflix.  They have to treat you
as a peer with the CATV.

I would pressure any authority to cite you chapter and verse if they deny
you.  Otherwise they are discriminating against you.

  *From:* Mike Hammett 
*Sent:* Monday, January 19, 2015 4:04 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Laying your own fiber?

  Go to your state level elected officials. Tell them you need ROW access
and until now you could have done it by being a CLEC, but the PUC is no
longer honoring that, so you need them to either pass a new law or convince
the PUC to stop being dicks.

Can you rent space on someone else's switch?

Can they even do that? I don't know, I'm not an attorney.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

--
*From: *"Zephyr Broadband" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Monday, January 19, 2015 12:12:31 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Laying your own fiber?

   AFAIK, the 2 primary ways to get access to ROW for most of the US is a

Franchise agreement and/or CLEC certification.  This gets you into the
Utility ROW Easements without issues.  Many properties have ROW Utility
easements.

If you plan to do Video, you might as well do the CATV franchise
agreement.  This typically gets you into the Utility ROW easements and
easements set aside for the city.​


And therein lies the rub. The Colorado PUC stated last week that they are
cracking down on data-only providers filing for CLEC certification simply
for ROW access. Now, if you want certification, you have to have a Class 5
switch and must plan to originate access traffic or they'll deny the
application on the spot.


Some states have allowed broadband providers to use utility easements.

Unless you are prepared to spend a minimum of $250k for video, I
recommend you run away.  Dish just launch phase 1 of their internet video
offering.  More channels will follow.   I don't think you'll ever make your
money back here, unless you plan to be at 5k subs.


Yeah, saw their plans for sling.com pop up last week. Ouch. $250k. That's
expensive, but considering the PUCs stance on data only providers...it
might be cheaper than jumping into the facilities-based telecom game 15
years too late.

Re: [AFMUG] Laying your own fiber?

[Mark - Myakka Technologies]

Josh,

That is a very interesting question.  Even better what happens when
sony/ms/dish all create virtual cable companies.  If I'm not selling
the service why would I need a franchise fee.  If Sony is the cable
company and they sell directly to the end user, wouldn't Sony need to
be the franchise.

This could get very interesting in the next few years.

-- 
Best regards,
 Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

Proud Sponsor of the Myakka City Relay For Life
http://www.RelayForLife.org/MyakkaCityFL

Please Donate at 
http://main.acsevents.org/site/TR/RelayForLife/RFLFY12FL?team_id=1030009&pg=team&fr_id=37555
--

Monday, January 19, 2015, 7:46:25 PM, you wrote:


  
JR> What happenswhen netflix/sling are considered TV  service?
  
JR> josh reynolds :: chief information officer
JR> spitwspots :: www.spitwspots.com

JR>  On 01/19/2015 03:44 PM, Erich Kaiser wrote:
  
  
  
JR> In some areas around here as long as you are not providing TV service, you
JR> do not need to do anything with a franchise agreement.  You will even find
JR> some counties are willing to work with you and give you info like what
JR> areas do not have franchise agreements, etc..


JR> On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 5:09 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  
  
JR>  CLEC certification is not required for ROW access.  That is just
JR> someone blowing smoke.  What if you wanted to put in a water line to water
JR> your cows?  Or a culvert?

JR> I would ask for an excavation permit first and deal with the authority
JR> over that particular ROW.  You have state, city and county roads as well as
JR> private land owners.  They all will have a different reaction to ROW use.

JR> CATV folks are not CLECs (at least they donï¿œt have to be) and they get ROW
JR> access.  You are an IPTV company, you haul netflix.  They have to treat you
JR> as a peer with the CATV.

JR> I would pressure any authority to cite you chapter and verse if they deny
JR> you.  Otherwise they are discriminating against you.

JR>  *From:* Mike Hammett *Sent:* Monday, January 19, 2015 
4:04 PM
JR> *To:* af@afmug.com*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Laying your own fiber?

JR>  Go to your state level elected officials. Tell them you need ROW access
JR> and until now you could have done it by being a CLEC, but the PUC is no
JR> longer honoring that, so you need them to either pass a new law or convince
JR> the PUC to stop being dicks.

JR> Can you rent space on someone else's switch?

JR> Can they even do that? I don't know, I'm not an attorney.



JR> -
JR> Mike Hammett
JR> Intelligent Computing
JR> Solutionshttp://www.ics-il.com--
JR> *From: *"Zephyr Broadband" *To: *af@afmug.com
JR> *Sent: *Monday, January 19, 2015 12:12:31 PM
JR> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Laying your own fiber?

JR>   AFAIK, the 2 primary ways to get access to ROW for most of the US is a

  
  
JR> Franchise agreement and/or CLEC certification.  This gets you into the
JR> Utility ROW Easements without issues.  Many properties have ROW Utility
JR> easements.

JR> If you plan to do Video, you might as well do the CATV franchise
JR> agreement.  This typically gets you into the Utility ROW easements and
JR> easements set aside for the city.?

  

  
JR> And therein lies the rub. The Colorado PUC stated last week that they are
JR> cracking down on data-only providers filing for CLEC certification simply
JR> for ROW access. Now, if you want certification, you have to have a Class 5
JR> switch and must plan to originate access traffic or they'll deny the
JR> application on the spot.

  
  
JR> Some states have allowed broadband providers to use utility easements.

JR> Unless you are prepared to spend a minimum of $250k for video, I
JR> recommend you run away.  Dish just launch phase 1 of their internet video
JR> offering.  More channels will follow.   I don't think you'll ever make your
JR> money back here, unless you plan to be at 5k subs.

  

  
JR> Yeah, saw their plans for sling.com pop up last week. Ouch. $250k. That's
JR> expensive, but considering the PUCs stance on data only providers...it
JR> might be cheaper than jumping into the facilities-based telecom game 15
JR> years too late.

  

  


  

  
  

  


---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection 
is active.
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Re: [AFMUG] Laying your own fiber?

[Trevor Bough]

Currently in the natural gas distribution industry here. Most cities of any
size at all will require a franchise agreement to use their ROW. There just
isn't enough space for everyone and their brother to lay whatever they want
wherever they want. Most of the time this requires a new city ordinance
spelling out how big a percentage of your sales in that city you will pay
the city. State ROW is a little easier, typically, in that as long as you
fill out their ROW permit to their satisfaction (sometimes requires
engineer drawings, and approximate locations) you can lay in their ROW,
but, here at least, you only get the last 6' of the ROW for  all utilities.
Pretty cramped every time. County ROW is usually easiest as they usually
don't have too many requirements and will probably just want it cleaned up
back to normal when you are done.
On Jan 19, 2015 1:10 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

>   Assuming you are going underground, simply apply for an excavation
> permit.
>
> If they ask, tell them you are a long haul fiber company similar to Level3
> and AT&T.
> You do not need to be a CLEC.  Local ROW jurisdictions don’t even know
> what that is.
> You may need a franchise agreement.  That depends on the city or county.
> But that is straightforward.
>
> If on poles, much more paperwork and regulation.
>
>  *From:* Zephyr Broadband 
> *Sent:* Monday, January 19, 2015 10:56 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Laying your own fiber?
>
>  So we've started looking at trenching our own fiber but we've run into a
> couple roadblocks and I thought I'd reach out to the list and see if others
> have run into similar issues. Obviously this is location and jurisdiction
> dependent, but we can't seem to get anyone from City Hall to return our
> calls or offer any hints as to where to look.
>
> How did you get permission to use utility right of ways and easements? Did
> you file for CLEC certification? Did you look at a CATV franchise agreement
> with your city? Did you approach each landowner and negotiate your own
> easement?
>
> Also, do any of you offer triple play services? We haven't had a lot of
> luck looking into distribution agreements for TV services either.
>
> Any info or resources would be appreciated!
>

Re: [AFMUG] Laying your own fiber?

[Ken Hohhof]

I don't see how these are cable companies at all.  They don't install cable 
in the public right of way.  Broadcast TV doesn't need a franchise agreement 
or pay franchise fees, nor does satellite TV.


I think you are confusing OTT content providers with cable companies, the 
latter have physical infrastructure installed in public ROW, benefitting 
from use of public resources and having somewhat of a natural monopoly 
because of their local "franchise" even if some towns have 2 cable 
companies, like Comcast and UVerse or FIOS.



-Original Message- 
From: Mark - Myakka Technologies

Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 7:31 PM
To: Josh Reynolds
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Laying your own fiber?

Josh,

That is a very interesting question.  Even better what happens when
sony/ms/dish all create virtual cable companies.  If I'm not selling
the service why would I need a franchise fee.  If Sony is the cable
company and they sell directly to the end user, wouldn't Sony need to
be the franchise.

This could get very interesting in the next few years.

--
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

Proud Sponsor of the Myakka City Relay For Life
http://www.RelayForLife.org/MyakkaCityFL

Please Donate at 
http://main.acsevents.org/site/TR/RelayForLife/RFLFY12FL?team_id=1030009&pg=team&fr_id=37555

--

Monday, January 19, 2015, 7:46:25 PM, you wrote:



JR> What happenswhen netflix/sling are considered TV  service?

JR> josh reynolds :: chief information officer
JR> spitwspots :: www.spitwspots.com

JR>  On 01/19/2015 03:44 PM, Erich Kaiser wrote:



JR> In some areas around here as long as you are not providing TV service, 
you
JR> do not need to do anything with a franchise agreement.  You will even 
find

JR> some counties are willing to work with you and give you info like what
JR> areas do not have franchise agreements, etc..


JR> On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 5:09 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:



JR>  CLEC certification is not required for ROW access.  That is just
JR> someone blowing smoke.  What if you wanted to put in a water line to 
water

JR> your cows?  Or a culvert?

JR> I would ask for an excavation permit first and deal with the authority
JR> over that particular ROW.  You have state, city and county roads as well 
as
JR> private land owners.  They all will have a different reaction to ROW 
use.


JR> CATV folks are not CLECs (at least they donï¿œt have to be) and they get 
ROW
JR> access.  You are an IPTV company, you haul netflix.  They have to treat 
you

JR> as a peer with the CATV.

JR> I would pressure any authority to cite you chapter and verse if they 
deny

JR> you.  Otherwise they are discriminating against you.

JR>  *From:* Mike Hammett *Sent:* Monday, January 19, 2015 
4:04 PM

JR> *To:* af@afmug.com*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Laying your own fiber?

JR>  Go to your state level elected officials. Tell them you need ROW access
JR> and until now you could have done it by being a CLEC, but the PUC is no
JR> longer honoring that, so you need them to either pass a new law or 
convince

JR> the PUC to stop being dicks.

JR> Can you rent space on someone else's switch?

JR> Can they even do that? I don't know, I'm not an attorney.



JR> -
JR> Mike Hammett
JR> Intelligent Computing
JR> Solutionshttp://www.ics-il.com--
JR> *From: *"Zephyr Broadband" *To: *af@afmug.com
JR> *Sent: *Monday, January 19, 2015 12:12:31 PM
JR> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Laying your own fiber?

JR>   AFAIK, the 2 primary ways to get access to ROW for most of the US is a



JR> Franchise agreement and/or CLEC certification.  This gets you into the
JR> Utility ROW Easements without issues.  Many properties have ROW Utility
JR> easements.

JR> If you plan to do Video, you might as well do the CATV franchise
JR> agreement.  This typically gets you into the Utility ROW easements and
JR> easements set aside for the city.?




JR> And therein lies the rub. The Colorado PUC stated last week that they 
are
JR> cracking down on data-only providers filing for CLEC certification 
simply
JR> for ROW access. Now, if you want certification, you have to have a Class 
5

JR> switch and must plan to originate access traffic or they'll deny the
JR> application on the spot.



JR> Some states have allowed broadband providers to use utility easements.

JR> Unless you are prepared to spend a minimum of $250k for video, I
JR> recommend you run away.  Dish just launch phase 1 of their internet 
video
JR> offering.  More channels will follow.   I don't think you'll ever make 
your

JR> money back here, unless you plan to be at 5k subs.




JR> Yeah, saw their plans for sling.com pop up last week. Ouch. $250k. 
That's

JR> expensive, but considering the PUCs stance on data only providers...it
JR> might be cheaper than jumping into the facilities-based telecom game 15
JR> years too late.














---
This email is free from viruses and malware

Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?

[Steve Discher]

Butting in here. We sell a ton of Exalt with zero comebacks.  What issues are 
you having?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 19, 2015, at 11:46 AM, Steve Utick  wrote:
> 
> My problem is at this point, I've had so many problems with Exalt that I'm 
> not sure I'd buy another one of their radios period
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 11:31 AM, SmarterBroadband 
>>  wrote:
>> You could also look at the Exalt ExtremeAir.
>> 
>> 2 x 80 Mhz channels with X-Pic all in one all-outdoor unit.
>> 
>> Does a Gig.
>> 
>> Adam
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of TJ Trout
>> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:48 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> What is my least expensive option for getting  more bandwidth in 6ghz or 
>> 11ghz ? Right now I have 366mbps (56mhz 256qam) would like double or better?
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Jon Langeler  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> compression yields a lot at 64byte packet, but yields much less at 256byte 
>> and larger...it's a curve. 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Also if your upgrading a long 5GHz link with 6Ghz, you'll probably be 
>> slightly better off even if the calcs say 'low uptime'. 11GHz will 'swing' 
>> during rains more than 6GHz obviously so the higher gain from the same size 
>> dishes helps there. Licensing a wide single polarity is always cheapest...
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> -Jon
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jan 16, 2015, at 3:13 PM, Josh Luthman  
>> wrote:
>> That sounds backwards.  Why would smaller packets net you greater throughput?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 3:10 PM, Jeremy  wrote:
>> 
>> It's really 60.  Ours does 1.4Gbps, 700Mbps full duplex (if every packet was 
>> a VoIP packet)...500Mbps FDX is a more realistic real-world TCP throughput 
>> that you can expect.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Hardy, Tim  wrote:
>> 
>> It’s really 60!
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 60 MHz
>> 
>> CH
>> 
>> N(
>> 
>> G(
>> 
>> 1
>> 
>> 5960.0250
>> 
>> 6212.0650
>> 
>> 2
>> 
>> 6019.3250
>> 
>> 6271.3650
>> 
>> 3
>> 
>> 6078.6250
>> 
>> 6330.6650
>> 
>> 4
>> 
>> 6137.9250
>> 
>> 6389.9650
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> As far as XPIC on 30 MHz vs. 60 MHz it all depends on the environment.  If 
>> x-pol is needed to clear a channel, it isn’t going to be available on the 
>> orthogonal polarization.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
>> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 2:59 PM
>> 
>> 
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> In 6 GHz, is 60 really 60, or is it 30+30 contiguous?
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I’m thinking it might be easier to do XPIC on the same 30 MHz channel than 
>> to find 60 MHz of available spectrum, but I haven’t done anything in 6 GHz, 
>> mainly because of antenna size.  Yes the FCC did relax the antenna rules to 
>> allow down to a 3 ft dish, but realistically that won’t give you enough gain 
>> unless it’s a short link, especially given that 6 GHz is subject to 
>> multipath fades.  So bottom line I haven’t kept up with what you can do in 6 
>> GHz, so I could easily be wrong or behind the times.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: Mike Hammett
>> 
>> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:24 PM
>> 
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 30 MHz in the 7 GHz band, 30 MHz in some 6 GHz, 60 MHz in the rest of 6 
>> GHz...  IIRC.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: "Ken Hohhof" 
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:18:19 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>> 
>> I would first talk to your frequency coordinator about what FCC channel 
>> widths can be licensed in what bands.  I’m not sure 40 MHz channels exist in 
>> 6 GHz, and I believe you’ll find an 80 MHz channel width means you need to 
>> license 2 adjacent channels.  There is no benefit to having a radio that 
>> does 80 MHz channels if that’s not what you license, other than maybe having 
>> consistent equipment across your network to simplify sparing.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: TJ Trout
>> 
>> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:05 PM
>> 
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 11ghz integra doesn't exist, and when it does in april it's just 60mhz! 
>> Should I even be considering a 60mhz radio? Seems like 80 is the way to go?
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Gino Villarini  wrote:
>> 
>> 11 ghz integra
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Gino A. Villarini
>> 
>> President
>> 
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>> 
>> www.aeronetpr.com  
>> 
>> @aeronetpr
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>

Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?

[TJ Trout]

I'm sorry if I'm beating a dead horse here, but besides the integra which
we don't have availability or pricing on yet, what are some of the "lower"
cost options for something say 600mbps or better that are currently
available? The IP20C looks like the best thing available but $30k is a
little too spendy

On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 7:43 PM, Steve Discher 
wrote:

> Butting in here. We sell a ton of Exalt with zero comebacks.  What issues
> are you having?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 19, 2015, at 11:46 AM, Steve Utick  wrote:
>
> My problem is at this point, I've had so many problems with Exalt that I'm
> not sure I'd buy another one of their radios period
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 11:31 AM, SmarterBroadband <
> li...@smarterbroadband.com> wrote:
>
>> You could also look at the Exalt ExtremeAir.
>>
>> 2 x 80 Mhz channels with X-Pic all in one all-outdoor unit.
>>
>> Does a Gig.
>>
>> Adam
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *TJ Trout
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 1:48 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>
>>
>>
>> What is my least expensive option for getting  more bandwidth in 6ghz or
>> 11ghz ? Right now I have 366mbps (56mhz 256qam) would like double or better?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Jon Langeler 
>> wrote:
>>
>> compression yields a lot at 64byte packet, but yields much less at
>> 256byte and larger...it's a curve.
>>
>>
>>
>> Also if your upgrading a long 5GHz link with 6Ghz, you'll probably be
>> slightly better off even if the calcs say 'low uptime'. 11GHz will 'swing'
>> during rains more than 6GHz obviously so the higher gain from the same size
>> dishes helps there. Licensing a wide single polarity is always cheapest...
>>
>>
>>
>> -Jon
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Jan 16, 2015, at 3:13 PM, Josh Luthman 
>> wrote:
>>
>> That sounds backwards.  Why would smaller packets net you greater
>> throughput?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 3:10 PM, Jeremy  wrote:
>>
>> It's really 60.  Ours does 1.4Gbps, 700Mbps full duplex (if every packet
>> was a VoIP packet)...500Mbps FDX is a more realistic real-world TCP
>> throughput that you can expect.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Hardy, Tim  wrote:
>>
>> It’s really 60!
>>
>>
>>
>> *60 MHz *
>>
>> *CH*
>>
>> *N(*
>>
>> *G(*
>>
>> 1
>>
>> 5960.0250
>>
>> 6212.0650
>>
>> 2
>>
>> 6019.3250
>>
>> 6271.3650
>>
>> 3
>>
>> 6078.6250
>>
>> 6330.6650
>>
>> 4
>>
>> 6137.9250
>>
>> 6389.9650
>>
>>
>>
>> As far as XPIC on 30 MHz vs. 60 MHz it all depends on the environment.
>> If x-pol is needed to clear a channel, it isn’t going to be available on
>> the orthogonal polarization.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 2:59 PM
>>
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>
>>
>>
>> In 6 GHz, is 60 really 60, or is it 30+30 contiguous?
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m thinking it might be easier to do XPIC on the same 30 MHz channel
>> than to find 60 MHz of available spectrum, but I haven’t done anything in 6
>> GHz, mainly because of antenna size.  Yes the FCC did relax the antenna
>> rules to allow down to a 3 ft dish, but realistically that won’t give you
>> enough gain unless it’s a short link, especially given that 6 GHz is
>> subject to multipath fades.  So bottom line I haven’t kept up with what you
>> can do in 6 GHz, so I could easily be wrong or behind the times.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Mike Hammett 
>>
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 1:24 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>
>>
>>
>> 30 MHz in the 7 GHz band, 30 MHz in some 6 GHz, 60 MHz in the rest of 6
>> GHz...  IIRC.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Friday, January 16, 2015 1:18:19 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>
>> I would first talk to your frequency coordinator about what FCC channel
>> widths can be licensed in what bands.  I’m not sure 40 MHz channels exist
>> in 6 GHz, and I believe you’ll find an 80 MHz channel width means you need
>> to license 2 adjacent channels.  There is no benefit to having a radio that
>> does 80 MHz channels if that’s not what you license, other than maybe
>> having consistent equipment across your network to simplify sparing.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* TJ Trout 
>>
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 1:05 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>
>>
>>
>> 11ghz integra doesn't exist, and when it does in april it's just 60mhz!
>> Should I even be co

Re: [AFMUG] Laying your own fiber?

[Josh Reynolds]

We're moving to a position where "cable companies" won't be putting 
intoo much cable, and where their content may not come from them 
anymore, but might be IPTV.


The line is getting very, very blurred.

josh reynolds :: chief information officer
spitwspots :: www.spitwspots.com

On 01/19/2015 06:22 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
I don't see how these are cable companies at all. They don't install 
cable in the public right of way.  Broadcast TV doesn't need a 
franchise agreement or pay franchise fees, nor does satellite TV.


I think you are confusing OTT content providers with cable companies, 
the latter have physical infrastructure installed in public ROW, 
benefitting from use of public resources and having somewhat of a 
natural monopoly because of their local "franchise" even if some towns 
have 2 cable companies, like Comcast and UVerse or FIOS.



-Original Message- From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 7:31 PM
To: Josh Reynolds
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Laying your own fiber?

Josh,

That is a very interesting question.  Even better what happens when
sony/ms/dish all create virtual cable companies.  If I'm not selling
the service why would I need a franchise fee.  If Sony is the cable
company and they sell directly to the end user, wouldn't Sony need to
be the franchise.

This could get very interesting in the next few years.

Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?

[Mike Hammett]

My post had at least two radios that weren't Integra. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

- Original Message -

From: "TJ Trout"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 9:47:28 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ? 


I'm sorry if I'm beating a dead horse here, but besides the integra which we 
don't have availability or pricing on yet, what are some of the "lower" cost 
options for something say 600mbps or better that are currently available? The 
IP20C looks like the best thing available but $30k is a little too spendy 


On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 7:43 PM, Steve Discher < sdisc...@ispsupplies.com > 
wrote: 




Butting in here. We sell a ton of Exalt with zero comebacks. What issues are 
you having? 

Sent from my iPhone 

On Jan 19, 2015, at 11:46 AM, Steve Utick < sut...@gmail.com > wrote: 





My problem is at this point, I've had so many problems with Exalt that I'm not 
sure I'd buy another one of their radios period 





On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 11:31 AM, SmarterBroadband < li...@smarterbroadband.com 
> wrote: 





You could also look at the Exalt ExtremeAir. 
2 x 80 Mhz channels with X-Pic all in one all-outdoor unit. 
Does a Gig. 
Adam 

From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of TJ Trout 
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:48 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ? 


What is my least expensive option for getting more bandwidth in 6ghz or 11ghz ? 
Right now I have 366mbps (56mhz 256qam) would like double or better? 



On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Jon Langeler < jon-ispli...@michwave.net > 
wrote: 






compression yields a lot at 64byte packet, but yields much less at 256byte and 
larger...it's a curve. 



Also if your upgrading a long 5GHz link with 6Ghz, you'll probably be slightly 
better off even if the calcs say 'low uptime'. 11GHz will 'swing' during rains 
more than 6GHz obviously so the higher gain from the same size dishes helps 
there. Licensing a wide single polarity is always cheapest... 



-Jon 



Sent from my iPhone 




On Jan 16, 2015, at 3:13 PM, Josh Luthman < j...@imaginenetworksllc.com > 
wrote: 









That sounds backwards. Why would smaller packets net you greater throughput? 










Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 




On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 3:10 PM, Jeremy < jeremysmi...@gmail.com > wrote: 





It's really 60. Ours does 1.4Gbps, 700Mbps full duplex (if every packet was a 
VoIP packet)...500Mbps FDX is a more realistic real-world TCP throughput that 
you can expect. 







On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Hardy, Tim < tha...@comsearch.com > wrote: 






It’s really 60! 

60 MHz 

CH  
N(  
G( 

1   
5960.0250   
6212.0650 

2   
6019.3250   
6271.3650 

3   
6078.6250   
6330.6650 

4   
6137.9250   
6389.9650 

As far as XPIC on 30 MHz vs. 60 MHz it all depends on the environment. If x-pol 
is needed to clear a channel, it isn’t going to be available on the orthogonal 
polarization. 



From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 2:59 PM 





To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ? 








In 6 GHz, is 60 really 60, or is it 30+30 contiguous? 



I’m thinking it might be easier to do XPIC on the same 30 MHz channel than to 
find 60 MHz of available spectrum, but I haven’t done anything in 6 GHz, mainly 
because of antenna size. Yes the FCC did relax the antenna rules to allow down 
to a 3 ft dish, but realistically that won’t give you enough gain unless it’s a 
short link, especially given that 6 GHz is subject to multipath fades. So 
bottom line I haven’t kept up with what you can do in 6 GHz, so I could easily 
be wrong or behind the times. 






From: Mike Hammett 

Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:24 PM 

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ? 




30 MHz in the 7 GHz band, 30 MHz in some 6 GHz, 60 MHz in the rest of 6 GHz... 
IIRC. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 




From: "Ken Hohhof" < af...@kwisp.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:18:19 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ? 



I would first talk to your frequency coordinator about what FCC channel widths 
can be licensed in what bands. I’m not sure 40 MHz channels exist in 6 GHz, and 
I believe you’ll find an 80 MHz channel width means you need to license 2 
adjacent channels. There is no benefit to having a radio that does 80 MHz 
channels if that’s not what you license, other than maybe having consistent 
equipment across your network to simplify sparing. 








From: TJ Trout 

Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:05 PM 

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option fo

[AFMUG] What LICENSED radios have you had fail?

[TJ Trout]

Kind of a curious question to the operators on the list, if you have had a
licensed radio fail, what brand and model was it?

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Deployment/Construction

[Sterling Jacobson]

I'm thinking of doing this at two times, one on Tuesday afternoon and another 
Friday Mid-morning.

I don't know when the Forrest University is, so maybe I should change that to 
Friday afternoon?

Was trying to get the people that were flying in so they had time to get in and 
come down if they wished.
And then the opposite on Friday, if they are flying out Friday maybe get them 
in the morning.



-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2015 9:22 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Deployment/Construction

How much time were you thinking for the Tour/Travel?  I don't leave until 
Saturday, so I'd be fine with going down after Forrest University on Friday.  
(I will also have a car and can transport others)

Nate

On 1/16/2015 6:44 PM, Jay Weekley wrote:
> So Sterling. What is the official date for our tour?
>
> Chuck McCown wrote:
>> And Daniel et al are the ones paying for lunch, dinner, the show, 
>> pretty much everything.  Please show your thanks by sticking around 
>> as much as possible.
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Daniel White
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2015 10:03 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Deployment/Construction
>>
>> I heard that :-)
>>
>> Seriously I hope everyone sticks around.  We got some new things to 
>> announce (or at least soft launch - I think Mobile World Congress 
>> will get the spotlight with the press releases, etc.) and some cool 
>> things to talk about.
>>
>> I'm sure I am going to talk about a lot more than I will be allowed 
>> to put in slides.
>>
>> Mimosa is after us as well - and I'm sure they have a lot to talk 
>> about as well.  If I don't get dragged away - I'll be listening in.
>>
>> Of course I know Sterling is only doing fiber now ;-)  That wireless 
>> stuff is just boring!
>>
>> Tuesday might be a good day to check out your fiber build as well 
>> Sterling.
>> I won't be able to make it Tuesday or Friday... but I hope to see it 
>> myself sometime.
>>
>> Daniel White – Managing Director
>> SAF North America LLC
>>
>> Cell:  (303) 746-3590
>> Skype: danieldwhite
>> daniel.wh...@saftehnika.com
>>
>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sterling 
>>> Jacobson
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2015 7:38 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Deployment/Construction
>>>
>>> And no offense to SAF, but I'm leaving after lunch regardless :)
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sterling 
>>> Jacobson
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2015 7:36 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Deployment/Construction
>>>
>>> Ok, looks like I might be doing a panel on this too, maybe Friday.
>>>
>>> Maybe I can do a panel or a speech thing on it, then get whoever 
>>> wants to come take an actual look at it as well.
>>>
>>> That way those that can't go will have some material and those that 
>>> can
>> will
>>> get a better actual look at it and more in depth.
>>>
>>> This would make the visit to my city potentially shorter and 
>>> concentrate
>> on
>>> looking at the deployment.
>>>
>>> Honestly it would be nice if I had the noonish panel slot and then 
>>> we ate lunch and went down then came back.
>>> But that would mean missing the SAF presentation.
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2015 2:38 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Deployment/Construction
>>>
>>> Me too
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gino A. Villarini
>>> President
>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>> www.aeronetpr.com
>>> @aeronetpr
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1/13/15, 3:54 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>>
>>> >Count me in.
>>> >
>>> >-Original Message-
>>> >From: Sterling Jacobson
>>> >Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2015 12:17 PM
>>> >To: 'af@afmug.com'
>>> >Subject: [AFMUG] Fiber Deployment/Construction
>>> >
>>> >I wouldn't mind taking a group of AF people down to my city Saratoga
>>> >Springs south of Animal Farm and showing my fiber network.
>>> >
>>> >We would need to pick a day/time for it.
>>> >
>>> >I can show the cabinet/switch deployment side as I do things and give
>>> >an overview of the networking etc. at my office.
>>> >
>>> >It may even be possible to show some actual construction in action, 
>>> but
>>> >that depends on what is going on first week of February in my
>>> >construction schedule.
>>> >
>>> >Let me know what you guys think.
>>> >
>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Laying your own fiber?

[Sterling Jacobson]

Find a lawyer who is versed in the state data transit laws and have them help 
you with the city you are working with.

I did that.

One of the cities wanted to charge me per customer.

Since I decided I don’t do telephone or TV, they put me under a franchise.

My lawyer had a good conversation with the city attorney about how its actually 
illegal to do a franchise like that in the state of Utah, lol!

So we worked out a different agreement.

The cities just can’t deny you access.
There has got to be a way.

Another thing to do is just garner a LOT of support behind your product.
Then have the residents come forward and push for a change.

That has worked for me too.



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Zephyr Broadband
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 10:57 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Laying your own fiber?

So we've started looking at trenching our own fiber but we've run into a couple 
roadblocks and I thought I'd reach out to the list and see if others have run 
into similar issues. Obviously this is location and jurisdiction dependent, but 
we can't seem to get anyone from City Hall to return our calls or offer any 
hints as to where to look.

How did you get permission to use utility right of ways and easements? Did you 
file for CLEC certification? Did you look at a CATV franchise agreement with 
your city? Did you approach each landowner and negotiate your own easement?

Also, do any of you offer triple play services? We haven't had a lot of luck 
looking into distribution agreements for TV services either.

Any info or resources would be appreciated!

Re: [AFMUG] What LICENSED radios have you had fail?

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

You need to further clarify 'fail'.   Do you mean a software failure (aka
stop passing traffic, lock up, needs reboot, etc.), or out and out die?

-forrest

On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 9:08 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:

> Kind of a curious question to the operators on the list, if you have had a
> licensed radio fail, what brand and model was it?
>

Re: [AFMUG] What LICENSED radios have you had fail?

[TJ Trout]

Any outage related failure
On Jan 19, 2015 10:13 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> You need to further clarify 'fail'.   Do you mean a software failure (aka
> stop passing traffic, lock up, needs reboot, etc.), or out and out die?
>
> -forrest
>
> On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 9:08 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:
>
>> Kind of a curious question to the operators on the list, if you have had
>> a licensed radio fail, what brand and model was it?
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] What LICENSED radios have you had fail?

[That One Guy]

Im curious also, but am curious what the vendor/manufacturer response was,
both in and out of warranty

On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 12:17 AM, TJ Trout  wrote:

> Any outage related failure
> On Jan 19, 2015 10:13 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>> You need to further clarify 'fail'.   Do you mean a software failure (aka
>> stop passing traffic, lock up, needs reboot, etc.), or out and out die?
>>
>> -forrest
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 9:08 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:
>>
>>> Kind of a curious question to the operators on the list, if you have had
>>> a licensed radio fail, what brand and model was it?
>>>
>>
>>


-- 
All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the
parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you
can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not
use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925