[AFMUG] White Paper: DC Resistance Unbalance Testing: Easy, Low-Cost Insurance for Your PoE Systems | www.flukenetworks.com

[Jaime Solorza]

http://m.flukenetworks.com/?ref=http%3A%2F%2Fgo.flukenetworks.com%2FFnjGp00GS1H0q2LD000BYGE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flukenetworks.com%2Fcontent%2Fwhite-paper-dc-resistance-unbalance-testing-easy-low-cost-insurance-your-poe-systems%3Fmkt_tok%3DeyJpIjoiTnpGbFlUaGlNMlZrWWpkaSIsInQiOiJHeEs4XC82TWVoVlR1TmM4MlQ1VjRGcUgwbWdhVnBLYWVnSk5Cak1hT1lhOHUzUFlEQ0JzSzIzdTVsUVFkNTAyXC9aNUtYNXFXNW5yZ1pQREJPMEtWUGsxNHF0WnZUeU4xTGdQYnNWeldcL1NiMD0ifQ%253D%253D&width=360

[AFMUG] Small Outdoor Plastic Case

[Matt]

Looking for a 'neat looking' small plastic outdoor case.  I need to
replace a Canopy 600SS with a case that can hold small surge arrestor
and small 2 port mikrotik like maybe a map.  Its basically because the
cat5 run is too long and I need to split it.  I do not want it any
larger then possible.  I thought about taking map out of case and
fitting it in 600ss case but then I would have no surge arrestor.

Any ideas?

Re: [AFMUG] Small Outdoor Plastic Case

[chuck]

Give me the dimensions you need.  

-Original Message- 
From: Matt 
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2016 8:18 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] Small Outdoor Plastic Case 


Looking for a 'neat looking' small plastic outdoor case.  I need to
replace a Canopy 600SS with a case that can hold small surge arrestor
and small 2 port mikrotik like maybe a map.  Its basically because the
cat5 run is too long and I need to split it.  I do not want it any
larger then possible.  I thought about taking map out of case and
fitting it in 600ss case but then I would have no surge arrestor.

Any ideas?

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP 2.6.2 - (was 2.5.5)

[Paul McCall]

No, we do our own DNS (always have).   But, even though the DNS is accessible 
and working perfectly, the SM craps out (no local Ethernet data works) when we 
put our DNS numbers in the SM.  Take them out and the SM works fine.  The RF 
interface works fine either way.

I was just stating that Cambiums comment about “and the DNS server does not 
respond to the device” would seem to imply that you have an invalid DNS server. 
 And, I am saying that is not the case.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 6:43 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP 2.6.2 - (was 2.5.5)


Hmm.  Looks like Paul isn't doing his own DNS server ;)

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Jun 30, 2016 6:01 PM, "Mike Hammett" 
mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:

Hi,



We have determined the defect.



The problem occurs when there is a valid DNS server on the device and the DNS 
server does not respond to the device.  To avoid the problem until we come out 
with a fix, either make sure the DNS server always responds or make sure no IP 
address is specified for the DNS server either statically or from DHCP.



We are working on a fix now and will post this as soon as it is ready.



If the problem occurs, the device will become accessible, but it will take 
about 15 minutes.



Dan



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
Midwest Internet Exchange
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
The Brothers WISP
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]




From: "Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications Inc" 
mailto:t...@franklinisp.net>>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 4:11:11 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP 2.6.2  - (was 2.5.5)
This ONLY applies if you add DNS to the device.


Tyson Burris, President
Internet Communications Inc.
739 Commerce Dr.
Franklin, IN 46131

317-738-0320 Daytime #
317-412-1540 Cell/Direct #
Online: www.surfici.net

[ICI]
What can ICI do for you?

Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP 
Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the
addressee shown. It contains information that is
confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,
dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by
unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly
prohibited.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Paul McCall
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 4:43 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] ePMP 2.6.2 - (was 2.5.5)

Guys,

Just be aware there is a known issue with 2.6.2 that can cause the radio to not 
respond on the Ethernet side.  It’s a known issue on Cambium’s site.  It bit is 
in the butt a couple times this week.  We have found that its best to NOT but 
DNS in AT ALL to be safe, as their description of the problem and “solution” 
doesn’t necessarily match our experience.  We had working DNS values in several 
radios and they wouldn’t respond until we removed them.

http://community.cambiumnetworks.com/t5/ePMP-2000-and-1000/Serious-issue-with-2-6-2-on-brand-new-Force-180s/m-p/56370/highlight/false#M6825

Paul

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Tyson Burris @ Internet 
Communications Inc
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 4:10 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP 2.5.2

Mike,

Recommend you move to 2.6.2


Tyson Burris, President
Internet Communications Inc.
739 Commerce Dr.
Franklin, IN 46131

317-738-0320 Daytime #
317-412-1540 Cell/Direct #
Online: www.surfici.net

[ICI]
What can ICI do for you?

Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP 
Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the
addressee shown. It contains information that is
confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,
dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by
unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly
p

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP 2.6.2 - (was 2.5.5)

[Josh Luthman]

>From what Dan posted it said the bug happens when the DNS server doesn't
respond.  Are you finding something different?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 11:15 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:

> No, we do our own DNS (always have).   But, even though the DNS is
> accessible and working perfectly, the SM craps out (no local Ethernet data
> works) when we put our DNS numbers in the SM.  Take them out and the SM
> works fine.  The RF interface works fine either way.
>
>
>
> I was just stating that Cambiums comment about “and the DNS server does
> not respond to the device” would seem to imply that you have an invalid DNS
> server.  And, I am saying that is not the case.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 30, 2016 6:43 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP 2.6.2 - (was 2.5.5)
>
>
>
> Hmm.  Looks like Paul isn't doing his own DNS server ;)
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Jun 30, 2016 6:01 PM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> We have determined the defect.
>
>
>
> The problem occurs when there is a valid DNS server on the device and the
> DNS server does not respond to the device.  To avoid the problem until we
> come out with a fix, either make sure the DNS server always responds or
> make sure no IP address is specified for the DNS server either statically
> or from DHCP.
>
>
>
> We are working on a fix now and will post this as soon as it is ready.
>
>
>
> If the problem occurs, the device will become accessible, but it will take
> about 15 minutes.
>
>
>
> Dan
>
>
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications Inc" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, June 30, 2016 4:11:11 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] ePMP 2.6.2  - (was 2.5.5)
>
> This ONLY applies if you add DNS to the device.
>
>
>
>
>
> *Tyson Burris, President*
> *Internet Communications Inc.*
> *739 Commerce Dr.*
> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>
> *317-738-0320 <317-738-0320> Daytime #*
> *317-412-1540 <317-412-1540> Cell/Direct #*
> *Online: www.surfici.net *
>
>
>
> [image: ICI]
>
> *What can ICI do for you?*
>
>
> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP
> Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.*
>
> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
> *addressee shown. It contains information that is*
> *confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
> *dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
> *unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
> *prohibited.*
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Paul McCall
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 30, 2016 4:43 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] ePMP 2.6.2 - (was 2.5.5)
>
>
>
> Guys,
>
>
>
> Just be aware there is a known issue with 2.6.2 that can cause the radio
> to not respond on the Ethernet side.  It’s a known issue on Cambium’s
> site.  It bit is in the butt a couple times this week.  We have found that
> its best to NOT but DNS in AT ALL to be safe, as their description of the
> problem and “solution” doesn’t necessarily match our experience.  We had
> working DNS values in several radios and they wouldn’t respond until we
> removed them.
>
>
>
>
> http://community.cambiumnetworks.com/t5/ePMP-2000-and-1000/Serious-issue-with-2-6-2-on-brand-new-Force-180s/m-p/56370/highlight/false#M6825
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications Inc
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 30, 2016 4:10 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP 2.5.2
>
>
>
> Mike,
>
>
>
> Recommend you move to 2.6.2
>
>
>
>
>
> *Tyson Burris, President*
> *Internet Communications Inc.*
> *739 Commerce Dr.*
> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>
> *317-738-0320 <317-738-0320> Daytime #*
> *317-412-1540 <317-412-1540> Cell/Direct #*
> *Online: www.surfici.net *
>
>
>
> [image: ICI]
>
> *What can ICI do for you?*
>
>
> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP
> Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.*
>
> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
> *addressee sh

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP 2.6.2 - (was 2.5.5)

[Mike Hammett]

On SMs only or on APs too? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Paul McCall"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2016 10:15:23 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP 2.6.2 - (was 2.5.5) 



No, we do our own DNS (always have). But, even though the DNS is accessible and 
working perfectly, the SM craps out (no local Ethernet data works) when we put 
our DNS numbers in the SM. Take them out and the SM works fine. The RF 
interface works fine either way. 

I was just stating that Cambiums comment about “and the DNS server does not 
respond to the device” would seem to imply that you have an invalid DNS server. 
And, I am saying that is not the case. 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman 
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 6:43 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP 2.6.2 - (was 2.5.5) 

Hmm. Looks like Paul isn't doing his own DNS server ;) 
Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 

On Jun 30, 2016 6:01 PM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




Hi, 

We have determined the defect. 

The problem occurs when there is a valid DNS server on the device and the DNS 
server does not respond to the device. To avoid the problem until we come out 
with a fix, either make sure the DNS server always responds or make sure no IP 
address is specified for the DNS server either statically or from DHCP. 

We are working on a fix now and will post this as soon as it is ready. 

If the problem occurs, the device will become accessible, but it will take 
about 15 minutes. 

Dan 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications Inc" < t...@franklinisp.net > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 4:11:11 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP 2.6.2 - (was 2.5.5) 

This ONLY applies if you add DNS to the device. 



Tyson Burris, President 
Internet Communications Inc. 
739 Commerce Dr. 
Franklin, IN 46131 

317-738-0320 Daytime # 
317-412-1540 Cell/Direct # 
Online: www.surfici.net 

ICI
What can ICI do for you? 

Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP 
Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure. 

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the 
addressee shown. It contains information that is 
confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review, 
dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by 
unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly 
prohibited. 



From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Paul McCall 
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 4:43 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] ePMP 2.6.2 - (was 2.5.5) 

Guys, 

Just be aware there is a known issue with 2.6.2 that can cause the radio to not 
respond on the Ethernet side. It’s a known issue on Cambium’s site. It bit is 
in the butt a couple times this week. We have found that its best to NOT but 
DNS in AT ALL to be safe, as their description of the problem and “solution” 
doesn’t necessarily match our experience. We had working DNS values in several 
radios and they wouldn’t respond until we removed them. 

http://community.cambiumnetworks.com/t5/ePMP-2000-and-1000/Serious-issue-with-2-6-2-on-brand-new-Force-180s/m-p/56370/highlight/false#M6825
 

Paul 



From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Tyson Burris @ Internet 
Communications Inc 
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 4:10 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP 2.5.2 

Mike, 

Recommend you move to 2.6.2 



Tyson Burris, President 
Internet Communications Inc. 
739 Commerce Dr. 
Franklin, IN 46131 

317-738-0320 Daytime # 
317-412-1540 Cell/Direct # 
Online: www.surfici.net 

ICI
What can ICI do for you? 

Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP 
Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure. 

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the 
addressee shown. It contains information that is 
confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review, 
dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by 
unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly 
prohibited. 



From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 3:51 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] ePMP 2.5.2 


Has anyone seen DFS false positive issues in 2.5.2? Newer firmwares pretty 
safe? 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.pnghttp://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.pnghttp://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.pnghttp://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png
Midwest Internet Exchange 
http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.pnghttp://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.pnghttp://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png
The Brothers WISP 
http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.pnghttp://www.ics-il.com/i

Re: [AFMUG] Small Outdoor Plastic Case

[Matt]

Found I had one of these hiding in store room.

http://www.wlanparts.com/enclosures/wlanparts-enctel-enclosure-9x6x3-inch-outdoor-1-port-gray/

Its a bit big though.  This is kind of a one off project.



On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 9:46 AM,   wrote:
> Give me the dimensions you need.
> -Original Message- From: Matt Sent: Friday, July 1, 2016 8:18 AM To:
> af@afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] Small Outdoor Plastic Case
> Looking for a 'neat looking' small plastic outdoor case.  I need to
> replace a Canopy 600SS with a case that can hold small surge arrestor
> and small 2 port mikrotik like maybe a map.  Its basically because the
> cat5 run is too long and I need to split it.  I do not want it any
> larger then possible.  I thought about taking map out of case and
> fitting it in 600ss case but then I would have no surge arrestor.
>
> Any ideas?

Re: [AFMUG] Graduated $/'

[SmarterBroadband]

Last one we did was

 

Monthly rent for each Panel and/or ≤ 24” Dish Antenna shall be $50.00.

Monthly rent for each > 24” Dish Antenna shall be $100.00.

Minimum Monthly rent shall be $400.00.

 

This was written a few years back.

 

Adam

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 7:29 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Graduated $/'

 

The intent is a rooftop, which has no practical wind loading limit, at least 
not like a tower does.

The intent isn't so much a bunch of 8' dishes, but a bunch of 1', 1.5', 2' type 
dishes. Easier to just put a rate in there to cover what may lie ahead than to 
renegotiate each addition. Maybe I do need a 3' dish for an 11 GHz link, but 
most likely 1' - 2' for 24 GHz and up.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 




  _  

From: "Ken Hohhof" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 9:12:39 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Graduated $/'

Weight and wind load would go up approximately as the square of diameter, 
right?  So it seems your proposed graduated pricing is actually in the wrong 
direction.

 

I guess it depends on how you define real estate on the particular tower.  If 
structural loading isn’t the limiting factor, you could take the view that the 
tenant can put whatever they want at their designated rad center for a fixed 
price.  That 5 or 10 feet of vertical space is theirs, doesn’t matter how many 
dishes and sectors they cram into it.  It’s not like you are going to put 
another tenant in that same space.  Unless you’re talking about the top which 
you might lease for multiple omnis.

 

From: Mike Hammett   

Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 8:16 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Graduated $/'

 

I didn't say as much, but I meant aggregate. 3x 2' dishes would be 6' of 
antenna.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 




  _  

From: "Eric Kuhnke" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 6:07:38 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Graduated $/'

For rooftop anything over 6' is a totally custom negotiation thing, the pain 
factor for building management depends on a lot of engineering concerns that 
are unique to a particular site. 

Does somebody want to put a 6' high performance dish on a 8'x8' footprint non 
penetrating roof mount and what is its weight loading (with concrete blocks) in 
kg/square meter? 

Or a penetrating roof tripod/four legged mount attached to the roof structural 
members of the building, in which case you get into insurance liability 
concerns and roofing (usually requiring a custom price quote from a roofing 
company to modify the membrane in a code compliant way).


Or on a 4.5"/6" size sch40 pipe on wall standoff mounts on the side of a 
mechanical penthouse?

 

Sticking to $/ft ratio works up to the 4 ft size and multiples thereof but 
anything bigger is really an answer of "It depends..."



 

On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 4:02 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

Do any of you have a rooftop (or I suppose tower too) lease that has a 
graduated $/' rate? Say $100 per antenna foot until you hit 10', then only $75 
per antenna foot? Looking at a way to make lease rates easy, yet allow for bulk 
discounts. If so, looking for what dollars\thresholds you have.

Maybe you don't have it spelled out like that, but have similar pricing that 
just happens to work out that way?



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
  
Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP






 

 

   

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP 2.6.2 - (was 2.5.5)

[Paul McCall]

Again, for us, it happens when we had ANY DNS server addresses in there (all of 
which DO respond normally)

Hadn’t noticed it on APs , but we stopped after the 2nd tower when the SMs 
acted up

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2016 11:17 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP 2.6.2 - (was 2.5.5)

From what Dan posted it said the bug happens when the DNS server doesn't 
respond.  Are you finding something different?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 11:15 AM, Paul McCall 
mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>> wrote:
No, we do our own DNS (always have).   But, even though the DNS is accessible 
and working perfectly, the SM craps out (no local Ethernet data works) when we 
put our DNS numbers in the SM.  Take them out and the SM works fine.  The RF 
interface works fine either way.

I was just stating that Cambiums comment about “and the DNS server does not 
respond to the device” would seem to imply that you have an invalid DNS server. 
 And, I am saying that is not the case.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 6:43 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP 2.6.2 - (was 2.5.5)


Hmm.  Looks like Paul isn't doing his own DNS server ;)

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Jun 30, 2016 6:01 PM, "Mike Hammett" 
mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:

Hi,



We have determined the defect.



The problem occurs when there is a valid DNS server on the device and the DNS 
server does not respond to the device.  To avoid the problem until we come out 
with a fix, either make sure the DNS server always responds or make sure no IP 
address is specified for the DNS server either statically or from DHCP.



We are working on a fix now and will post this as soon as it is ready.



If the problem occurs, the device will become accessible, but it will take 
about 15 minutes.



Dan



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
Midwest Internet Exchange
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
The Brothers WISP
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]




From: "Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications Inc" 
mailto:t...@franklinisp.net>>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 4:11:11 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP 2.6.2  - (was 2.5.5)
This ONLY applies if you add DNS to the device.


Tyson Burris, President
Internet Communications Inc.
739 Commerce Dr.
Franklin, IN 46131

317-738-0320 Daytime #
317-412-1540 Cell/Direct #
Online: www.surfici.net

[ICI]
What can ICI do for you?

Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP 
Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the
addressee shown. It contains information that is
confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,
dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by
unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly
prohibited.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Paul McCall
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 4:43 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] ePMP 2.6.2 - (was 2.5.5)

Guys,

Just be aware there is a known issue with 2.6.2 that can cause the radio to not 
respond on the Ethernet side.  It’s a known issue on Cambium’s site.  It bit is 
in the butt a couple times this week.  We have found that its best to NOT but 
DNS in AT ALL to be safe, as their description of the problem and “solution” 
doesn’t necessarily match our experience.  We had working DNS values in several 
radios and they wouldn’t respond until we removed them.

http://community.cambiumnetworks.com/t5/ePMP-2000-and-1000/Serious-issue-with-2-6-2-on-brand-new-Force-180s/m-p/56370/highlight/false#M6825

Paul

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Tyson Burris @ Internet 
Communications Inc
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 4:10 PM
To: af@afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP 2.6.2 - (was 2.5.5)

[Craig Schmaderer]

Josh I think you hit a nerve….   ☺

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Paul McCall
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2016 12:48 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP 2.6.2 - (was 2.5.5)

Again, for us, it happens when we had ANY DNS server addresses in there (all of 
which DO respond normally)

Hadn’t noticed it on APs , but we stopped after the 2nd tower when the SMs 
acted up

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2016 11:17 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP 2.6.2 - (was 2.5.5)

From what Dan posted it said the bug happens when the DNS server doesn't 
respond.  Are you finding something different?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 11:15 AM, Paul McCall 
mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>> wrote:
No, we do our own DNS (always have).   But, even though the DNS is accessible 
and working perfectly, the SM craps out (no local Ethernet data works) when we 
put our DNS numbers in the SM.  Take them out and the SM works fine.  The RF 
interface works fine either way.

I was just stating that Cambiums comment about “and the DNS server does not 
respond to the device” would seem to imply that you have an invalid DNS server. 
 And, I am saying that is not the case.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 6:43 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP 2.6.2 - (was 2.5.5)


Hmm.  Looks like Paul isn't doing his own DNS server ;)

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Jun 30, 2016 6:01 PM, "Mike Hammett" 
mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:

Hi,



We have determined the defect.



The problem occurs when there is a valid DNS server on the device and the DNS 
server does not respond to the device.  To avoid the problem until we come out 
with a fix, either make sure the DNS server always responds or make sure no IP 
address is specified for the DNS server either statically or from DHCP.



We are working on a fix now and will post this as soon as it is ready.



If the problem occurs, the device will become accessible, but it will take 
about 15 minutes.



Dan



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
Midwest Internet Exchange
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
The Brothers WISP
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]




From: "Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications Inc" 
mailto:t...@franklinisp.net>>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 4:11:11 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP 2.6.2  - (was 2.5.5)
This ONLY applies if you add DNS to the device.


Tyson Burris, President
Internet Communications Inc.
739 Commerce Dr.
Franklin, IN 46131

317-738-0320 Daytime #
317-412-1540 Cell/Direct #
Online: www.surfici.net

[ICI]
What can ICI do for you?

Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP 
Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the
addressee shown. It contains information that is
confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,
dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by
unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly
prohibited.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Paul McCall
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 4:43 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] ePMP 2.6.2 - (was 2.5.5)

Guys,

Just be aware there is a known issue with 2.6.2 that can cause the radio to not 
respond on the Ethernet side.  It’s a known issue on Cambium’s site.  It bit is 
in the butt a couple times this week.  We have found that its best to NOT but 
DNS in AT ALL to be safe, as their description of the problem and “solution” 
doesn’t necessarily match our experience.  We had working DNS values in several 
radios and they wouldn’t respond until we removed them.

http://community.cambiumnetworks.com/t5/ePMP-2000-and-1000/Serious-issue-wit

Re: [AFMUG] New generator almost ready!

[George Skorup]

Vibration. Our Generac included a short flexible hose. You are allowed 
one 90 degree elbow out of the input on the frame rail to allow the line 
to run parallel. That elbow should immediately connect to the flex 
section. I've seen it done both ways. The ones with rigid piping all the 
way (like yours) work fine, but at the possible risk of a gas leak.


On 7/1/2016 11:31 AM, Craig Schmaderer wrote:


We had a local plumber hook up the gas, what do you mean?  I think 
they hook up a lot of generators, this is my first NG should there be 
a flex hose there?


*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Erich Kaiser
*Sent:* Friday, July 1, 2016 9:07 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New generator almost ready!

No flex hose after regulator?


Erich Kaiser

North Central Tower

er...@northcentraltower.com 

Office: 630-621-4804

Cell: 630-777-9291

On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 8:55 AM, Craig Schmaderer 
mailto:cr...@skywaveconnect.com>> wrote:



Craig Schmaderer
Cell 402-380-1245 
Skywave Wireless, Inc.

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP 2.6.2 - (was 2.5.5)

[Paul McCall]

Naaah…   It’s FRIDAY!☺

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Craig Schmaderer
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2016 1:51 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP 2.6.2 - (was 2.5.5)

Josh I think you hit a nerve….   ☺

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Paul McCall
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2016 12:48 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP 2.6.2 - (was 2.5.5)

Again, for us, it happens when we had ANY DNS server addresses in there (all of 
which DO respond normally)

Hadn’t noticed it on APs , but we stopped after the 2nd tower when the SMs 
acted up

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2016 11:17 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP 2.6.2 - (was 2.5.5)

From what Dan posted it said the bug happens when the DNS server doesn't 
respond.  Are you finding something different?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 11:15 AM, Paul McCall 
mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>> wrote:
No, we do our own DNS (always have).   But, even though the DNS is accessible 
and working perfectly, the SM craps out (no local Ethernet data works) when we 
put our DNS numbers in the SM.  Take them out and the SM works fine.  The RF 
interface works fine either way.

I was just stating that Cambiums comment about “and the DNS server does not 
respond to the device” would seem to imply that you have an invalid DNS server. 
 And, I am saying that is not the case.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 6:43 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP 2.6.2 - (was 2.5.5)


Hmm.  Looks like Paul isn't doing his own DNS server ;)

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Jun 30, 2016 6:01 PM, "Mike Hammett" 
mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:

Hi,



We have determined the defect.



The problem occurs when there is a valid DNS server on the device and the DNS 
server does not respond to the device.  To avoid the problem until we come out 
with a fix, either make sure the DNS server always responds or make sure no IP 
address is specified for the DNS server either statically or from DHCP.



We are working on a fix now and will post this as soon as it is ready.



If the problem occurs, the device will become accessible, but it will take 
about 15 minutes.



Dan



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
Midwest Internet Exchange
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
The Brothers WISP
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]




From: "Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications Inc" 
mailto:t...@franklinisp.net>>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 4:11:11 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP 2.6.2  - (was 2.5.5)
This ONLY applies if you add DNS to the device.


Tyson Burris, President
Internet Communications Inc.
739 Commerce Dr.
Franklin, IN 46131

317-738-0320 Daytime #
317-412-1540 Cell/Direct #
Online: www.surfici.net

[ICI]
What can ICI do for you?

Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP 
Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the
addressee shown. It contains information that is
confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,
dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by
unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly
prohibited.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Paul McCall
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 4:43 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] ePMP 2.6.2 - (was 2.5.5)

Guys,

Just be aware there is a known issue with 2.6.2 that can cause the radio to not 
respond on the Ethernet side.  It’s a known issue on Cambium’s site.  It bit is 
in the butt a couple times this week.  We have found that its best to NOT but 
DNS in AT ALL to be safe, as their description of the problem and “solution

Re: [AFMUG] Graduated $/'

[Mike Hammett]

What market? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "SmarterBroadband"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2016 12:20:55 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Graduated $/' 



Last one we did was 

Monthly rent for each Panel and/or ≤ 24” Dish Antenna shall be $50.00. 
Monthly rent for each > 24” Dish Antenna shall be $100.00. 
Minimum Monthly rent shall be $400.00. 

This was written a few years back. 

Adam 



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 7:29 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Graduated $/' 


The intent is a rooftop, which has no practical wind loading limit, at least 
not like a tower does. 

The intent isn't so much a bunch of 8' dishes, but a bunch of 1', 1.5', 2' type 
dishes. Easier to just put a rate in there to cover what may lie ahead than to 
renegotiate each addition. Maybe I do need a 3' dish for an 11 GHz link, but 
most likely 1' - 2' for 24 GHz and up. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -


From: "Ken Hohhof" < af...@kwisp.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 9:12:39 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Graduated $/' 



Weight and wind load would go up approximately as the square of diameter, 
right? So it seems your proposed graduated pricing is actually in the wrong 
direction. 



I guess it depends on how you define real estate on the particular tower. If 
structural loading isn’t the limiting factor, you could take the view that the 
tenant can put whatever they want at their designated rad center for a fixed 
price. That 5 or 10 feet of vertical space is theirs, doesn’t matter how many 
dishes and sectors they cram into it. It’s not like you are going to put 
another tenant in that same space. Unless you’re talking about the top which 
you might lease for multiple omnis. 






From: Mike Hammett 

Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 8:16 PM 

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Graduated $/' 




I didn't say as much, but I meant aggregate. 3x 2' dishes would be 6' of 
antenna. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -


From: "Eric Kuhnke" < eric.kuh...@gmail.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 6:07:38 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Graduated $/' 


For rooftop anything over 6' is a totally custom negotiation thing, the pain 
factor for building management depends on a lot of engineering concerns that 
are unique to a particular site. 

Does somebody want to put a 6' high performance dish on a 8'x8' footprint non 
penetrating roof mount and what is its weight loading (with concrete blocks) in 
kg/square meter? 

Or a penetrating roof tripod/four legged mount attached to the roof structural 
members of the building, in which case you get into insurance liability 
concerns and roofing (usually requiring a custom price quote from a roofing 
company to modify the membrane in a code compliant way). 


Or on a 4.5"/6" size sch40 pipe on wall standoff mounts on the side of a 
mechanical penthouse? 


Sticking to $/ft ratio works up to the 4 ft size and multiples thereof but 
anything bigger is really an answer of "It depends..." 






On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 4:02 PM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 


Do any of you have a rooftop (or I suppose tower too) lease that has a 
graduated $/' rate? Say $100 per antenna foot until you hit 10', then only $75 
per antenna foot? Looking at a way to make lease rates easy, yet allow for bulk 
discounts. If so, looking for what dollars\thresholds you have. 

Maybe you don't have it spelled out like that, but have similar pricing that 
just happens to work out that way? 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

Re: [AFMUG] Graduated $/'

[SmarterBroadband]

Private building, Rural, Grass Valley CA.

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 11:37 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Graduated $/'

 

What market?



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 




  _  

From: "SmarterBroadband" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2016 12:20:55 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Graduated $/'

Last one we did was

 

Monthly rent for each Panel and/or ≤ 24” Dish Antenna shall be $50.00.

Monthly rent for each > 24” Dish Antenna shall be $100.00.

Minimum Monthly rent shall be $400.00.

 

This was written a few years back.

 

Adam

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 7:29 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Graduated $/'

 

The intent is a rooftop, which has no practical wind loading limit, at least 
not like a tower does.

The intent isn't so much a bunch of 8' dishes, but a bunch of 1', 1.5', 2' type 
dishes. Easier to just put a rate in there to cover what may lie ahead than to 
renegotiate each addition. Maybe I do need a 3' dish for an 11 GHz link, but 
most likely 1' - 2' for 24 GHz and up.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 




  _  

From: "Ken Hohhof" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 9:12:39 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Graduated $/'

Weight and wind load would go up approximately as the square of diameter, 
right?  So it seems your proposed graduated pricing is actually in the wrong 
direction.

 

I guess it depends on how you define real estate on the particular tower.  If 
structural loading isn’t the limiting factor, you could take the view that the 
tenant can put whatever they want at their designated rad center for a fixed 
price.  That 5 or 10 feet of vertical space is theirs, doesn’t matter how many 
dishes and sectors they cram into it.  It’s not like you are going to put 
another tenant in that same space.  Unless you’re talking about the top which 
you might lease for multiple omnis.

 

From: Mike Hammett   

Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 8:16 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Graduated $/'

 

I didn't say as much, but I meant aggregate. 3x 2' dishes would be 6' of 
antenna.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 




  _  

From: "Eric Kuhnke" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 6:07:38 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Graduated $/'

For rooftop anything over 6' is a totally custom negotiation thing, the pain 
factor for building management depends on a lot of engineering concerns that 
are unique to a particular site. 

Does somebody want to put a 6' high performance dish on a 8'x8' footprint non 
penetrating roof mount and what is its weight loading (with concrete blocks) in 
kg/square meter? 

Or a penetrating roof tripod/four legged mount attached to the roof structural 
members of the building, in which case you get into insurance liability 
concerns and roofing (usually requiring a custom price quote from a roofing 
company to modify the membrane in a code compliant way).


Or on a 4.5"/6" size sch40 pipe on wall standoff mounts on the side of a 
mechanical penthouse?

 

Sticking to $/ft ratio wor

Re: [AFMUG] Small Outdoor Plastic Case

[Mathew Howard]

I've used this for that sort of thing in the past:

http://www.alliedelec.com/bud-industries-nbf-32010/70148200/?mkwid=sabYU23qn&pcrid=30980760979&gclid=CjwKEAjwqdi7BRCL6Zmjk5-rsTwSJABmrVab3asXbbP5r2Z90ODFKArGjjxxTMcuOcuJQdVdts9behoCOI3w_wcB

Or you could buy a 6x6x4 NEMA box from somewhere like Home Depot or Lowes
for about the same price.

On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 11:03 AM, Matt  wrote:

> Found I had one of these hiding in store room.
>
>
> http://www.wlanparts.com/enclosures/wlanparts-enctel-enclosure-9x6x3-inch-outdoor-1-port-gray/
>
> Its a bit big though.  This is kind of a one off project.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 9:46 AM,   wrote:
> > Give me the dimensions you need.
> > -Original Message- From: Matt Sent: Friday, July 1, 2016 8:18 AM
> To:
> > af@afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] Small Outdoor Plastic Case
> > Looking for a 'neat looking' small plastic outdoor case.  I need to
> > replace a Canopy 600SS with a case that can hold small surge arrestor
> > and small 2 port mikrotik like maybe a map.  Its basically because the
> > cat5 run is too long and I need to split it.  I do not want it any
> > larger then possible.  I thought about taking map out of case and
> > fitting it in 600ss case but then I would have no surge arrestor.
> >
> > Any ideas?
>

Re: [AFMUG] Graduated $/'

[Mike Hammett]

Yeah, that is fairly middle of nowhere. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "SmarterBroadband"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2016 1:40:44 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Graduated $/' 



Private building, Rural, Grass Valley CA. 



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 11:37 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Graduated $/' 


What market? 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -


From: "SmarterBroadband" < li...@smarterbroadband.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2016 12:20:55 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Graduated $/' 
Last one we did was 

Monthly rent for each Panel and/or ≤ 24” Dish Antenna shall be $50.00. 
Monthly rent for each > 24” Dish Antenna shall be $100.00. 
Minimum Monthly rent shall be $400.00. 

This was written a few years back. 

Adam 



From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 7:29 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Graduated $/' 


The intent is a rooftop, which has no practical wind loading limit, at least 
not like a tower does. 

The intent isn't so much a bunch of 8' dishes, but a bunch of 1', 1.5', 2' type 
dishes. Easier to just put a rate in there to cover what may lie ahead than to 
renegotiate each addition. Maybe I do need a 3' dish for an 11 GHz link, but 
most likely 1' - 2' for 24 GHz and up. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "Ken Hohhof" < af...@kwisp.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 9:12:39 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Graduated $/' 



Weight and wind load would go up approximately as the square of diameter, 
right? So it seems your proposed graduated pricing is actually in the wrong 
direction. 



I guess it depends on how you define real estate on the particular tower. If 
structural loading isn’t the limiting factor, you could take the view that the 
tenant can put whatever they want at their designated rad center for a fixed 
price. That 5 or 10 feet of vertical space is theirs, doesn’t matter how many 
dishes and sectors they cram into it. It’s not like you are going to put 
another tenant in that same space. Unless you’re talking about the top which 
you might lease for multiple omnis. 






From: Mike Hammett 

Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 8:16 PM 

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Graduated $/' 




I didn't say as much, but I meant aggregate. 3x 2' dishes would be 6' of 
antenna. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "Eric Kuhnke" < eric.kuh...@gmail.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 6:07:38 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Graduated $/' 


For rooftop anything over 6' is a totally custom negotiation thing, the pain 
factor for building management depends on a lot of engineering concerns that 
are unique to a particular site. 

Does somebody want to put a 6' high performance dish on a 8'x8' footprint non 
penetrating roof mount and what is its weight loading (with concrete blocks) in 
kg/square meter? 

Or a penetrating roof tripod/four legged mount attached to the roof structural 
members of the building, in which case you get into insurance liability 
concerns and roofing (usually requiring a custom price quote from a roofing 
company to modify the membrane in a code compliant way). 


Or on a 4.5"/6" size sch40 pipe on wall standoff mounts on the side of a 
mechanical penthouse? 


Sticking to $/ft ratio works up to the 4 ft size and multiples thereof but 
anything bigger is really an answer of "It depends..." 




On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 4:02 PM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 


Do any of you have a rooftop (or I suppose tower too) lease that has a 
graduated $/' rate? Say $100 per antenna foot until you hit 10', then only $75 
per antenna foot? Looking at a way to make lease rates easy, yet allow for bulk 
discounts. If so, looking for what dollars\thresholds you have. 

Maybe you don't have it spelled out like that, but have similar pricing that 
just happens to work out that way? 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

Re: [AFMUG] 100 Foot Towers and Less

[Eric Rogers]

Nello in Ft Wayne...

 

Eric Rogers



  

www.pdsconnect.me

(317) 831-3000 x200

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Tyson Burris @
Internet Communications Inc
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2016 3:09 PM
To: memb...@wispa.org; af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] 100 Foot Towers and Less

 

Where you geeks buying these from these days?

 

Tyson Burris, President 
Internet Communications Inc. 
739 Commerce Dr. 
Franklin, IN 46131 
  
317-738-0320 Daytime # 
317-412-1540 Cell/Direct # 
Online: www.surfici.net 

 

 

What can ICI do for you? 


Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones -
IP Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure. 
  
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the 
addressee shown. It contains information that is 
confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review, 
dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by 
unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly 
prohibited. 

 

[AFMUG] FS: Epmp 2.4 connectorized radios, panels

[Josh Luthman]

Looking to get rid of these things.  Please let me know if you're at all
interested!

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

Re: [AFMUG] FS: Epmp 2.4 connectorized radios, panels

[Colin Stanners]

Switching over to Skypilot right?

We may be interested in the radios, please email offlist with number and
what you're looking for.
On Jul 1, 2016 2:02 PM, "Josh Luthman"  wrote:

> Looking to get rid of these things.  Please let me know if you're at all
> interested!
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>

Re: [AFMUG] FS: Epmp 2.4 connectorized radios, panels

[Josh Luthman]

Whatever you think is fair

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Jul 1, 2016 3:17 PM, "Colin Stanners"  wrote:

> Switching over to Skypilot right?
>
> We may be interested in the radios, please email offlist with number and
> what you're looking for.
> On Jul 1, 2016 2:02 PM, "Josh Luthman" 
> wrote:
>
>> Looking to get rid of these things.  Please let me know if you're at all
>> interested!
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] FS: Epmp 2.4 connectorized radios, panels

[Colin Stanners]

How many radios? Are they the GPS-sync/gigabit version or the
unsync/100mbit version?

On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 3:06 PM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Whatever you think is fair
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Jul 1, 2016 3:17 PM, "Colin Stanners"  wrote:
>
>> Switching over to Skypilot right?
>>
>> We may be interested in the radios, please email offlist with number and
>> what you're looking for.
>> On Jul 1, 2016 2:02 PM, "Josh Luthman" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Looking to get rid of these things.  Please let me know if you're at all
>>> interested!
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] FS: Epmp 2.4 connectorized radios, panels

[Josh Luthman]

I think 2 gps and 20 non gps.  Bunch of it elite panels

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Jul 1, 2016 4:09 PM, "Colin Stanners"  wrote:

> How many radios? Are they the GPS-sync/gigabit version or the
> unsync/100mbit version?
>
> On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 3:06 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
>> Whatever you think is fair
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> On Jul 1, 2016 3:17 PM, "Colin Stanners"  wrote:
>>
>>> Switching over to Skypilot right?
>>>
>>> We may be interested in the radios, please email offlist with number and
>>> what you're looking for.
>>> On Jul 1, 2016 2:02 PM, "Josh Luthman" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Looking to get rid of these things.  Please let me know if you're at
 all interested!

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

>>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] New generator almost ready!

[Robert Haas]

There is a piece of flex. The iron pipe makes a 180 after the regulator back to 
the rail and then comes up on the left to a shutoff, a union and the flex to 
the carb.

 

Seems like it had to be a lot of work to get that regulator in there, but 
perhaps the plumber wanted to keep it out of the way?

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of George Skorup
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 1:10 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New generator almost ready!

 

Vibration. Our Generac included a short flexible hose. You are allowed one 90 
degree elbow out of the input on the frame rail to allow the line to run 
parallel. That elbow should immediately connect to the flex section. I've seen 
it done both ways. The ones with rigid piping all the way (like yours) work 
fine, but at the possible risk of a gas leak.

On 7/1/2016 11:31 AM, Craig Schmaderer wrote:

We had a local plumber hook up the gas, what do you mean?  I think they hook up 
a lot of generators, this is my first NG should there be a flex hose there?

 

From: Af [  mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Erich Kaiser
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2016 9:07 AM
To:   af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New generator almost ready!

 

No flex hose after regulator?




 

Erich Kaiser

North Central Tower

er...@northcentraltower.com  

Office: 630-621-4804

Cell: 630-777-9291

 

 

On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 8:55 AM, Craig Schmaderer mailto:cr...@skywaveconnect.com> > wrote:





Craig Schmaderer
Cell 402-380-1245  
Skywave Wireless, Inc.

 

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] 100 Foot Towers and Less

[Eric Kuhnke]

How about Rohn 45G, 55G or 65G pieces from www.3starinc.com ?  They also
sell the full Rohn kits that come with everything. If you want something
stronger/shorter than a normal design (like a 90' 65G with heavier than
usual guying, for big dishes) you can easily see the individual component
pieces and put together an Excel sheet for your total cost.

On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 2:51 PM, Robert Haas 
wrote:

> Coincidentally, I was going to ask a similar question.
>
> I’m looking for suggestions for a 60’-80’ tower (preferred guyed) that
> will hold a 4’ dish. The STG looks like it may work well.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 29, 2016 3:24 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com; memb...@wispa.org
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 100 Foot Towers and Less
>
>
>
> Hutton, Rohn, Talley. So many options. Direct Rohn rep is
> bobby.tann...@rohnnet.com.
>
> Kind of depends on the loading. For a little heavier load I really like
> the Trylon STG. Solid rod, goes together smooth. Self support for limited
> load to something like 70'.
>
> On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 2:09 PM Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications Inc
>  wrote:
>
> Where you geeks buying these from these days?
>
>
>
> *Tyson Burris, President*
> *Internet Communications Inc.*
> *739 Commerce Dr.*
> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>
> *317-738-0320 Daytime #*
> *317-412-1540 Cell/Direct #*
> *Online: **www.surfici.net* 
>
>
>
> *What can ICI do for you?*
>
>
> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP
> Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.*
>
> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
> *addressee shown. It contains information that is*
> *confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
> *dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
> *unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
> *prohibited.*
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 100 Foot Towers and Less

[Jason McKemie]

How tall can you take a 45 or 55 without guy wires?

On Friday, July 1, 2016, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

> How about Rohn 45G, 55G or 65G pieces from www.3starinc.com ?  They also
> sell the full Rohn kits that come with everything. If you want something
> stronger/shorter than a normal design (like a 90' 65G with heavier than
> usual guying, for big dishes) you can easily see the individual component
> pieces and put together an Excel sheet for your total cost.
>
> On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 2:51 PM, Robert Haas  > wrote:
>
>> Coincidentally, I was going to ask a similar question.
>>
>> I’m looking for suggestions for a 60’-80’ tower (preferred guyed) that
>> will hold a 4’ dish. The STG looks like it may work well.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
>> ] *On Behalf Of *Lewis
>> Bergman
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 29, 2016 3:24 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com ;
>> memb...@wispa.org 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 100 Foot Towers and Less
>>
>>
>>
>> Hutton, Rohn, Talley. So many options. Direct Rohn rep is
>> bobby.tann...@rohnnet.com
>> .
>>
>> Kind of depends on the loading. For a little heavier load I really like
>> the Trylon STG. Solid rod, goes together smooth. Self support for limited
>> load to something like 70'.
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 2:09 PM Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications
>> Inc > > wrote:
>>
>> Where you geeks buying these from these days?
>>
>>
>>
>> *Tyson Burris, President*
>> *Internet Communications Inc.*
>> *739 Commerce Dr.*
>> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>>
>> *317-738-0320 Daytime #*
>> *317-412-1540 Cell/Direct #*
>> *Online: **www.surfici.net* 
>>
>>
>>
>> *What can ICI do for you?*
>>
>>
>> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones -
>> IP Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.*
>>
>> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
>> *addressee shown. It contains information that is*
>> *confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
>> *dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
>> *unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
>> *prohibited.*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

[AFMUG] Cogent

[Jason McKemie]

Does anyone have experience with Cogent as a primary upstream? Good, bad,
ugly? I assume the service location makes some difference as well.

-Jason

[AFMUG] WTB

[Craig House]

Looking for a Antel 900mhz Hpol omni.  HIt me off list please

Re: [AFMUG] 100 Foot Towers and Less

[Sean Heskett]

as always "it depends" the ROHN manual will have the exact specs.

I wouldn't go above 30 feet without guy wires, the system is designed to be
a loaded spring which is what gives it strength.

if you are putting up a 4' dish, i'd want guy wires even at 30 feet, if you
are putting an SM up you might be able to go to 40 feet...but climbing it
would be sketchy :-/

-sean


On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 4:48 PM, Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> How tall can you take a 45 or 55 without guy wires?
>
>
> On Friday, July 1, 2016, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:
>
>> How about Rohn 45G, 55G or 65G pieces from www.3starinc.com ?  They also
>> sell the full Rohn kits that come with everything. If you want something
>> stronger/shorter than a normal design (like a 90' 65G with heavier than
>> usual guying, for big dishes) you can easily see the individual component
>> pieces and put together an Excel sheet for your total cost.
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 2:51 PM, Robert Haas 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Coincidentally, I was going to ask a similar question.
>>>
>>> I’m looking for suggestions for a 60’-80’ tower (preferred guyed) that
>>> will hold a 4’ dish. The STG looks like it may work well.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Lewis Bergman
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 29, 2016 3:24 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com; memb...@wispa.org
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 100 Foot Towers and Less
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hutton, Rohn, Talley. So many options. Direct Rohn rep is
>>> bobby.tann...@rohnnet.com.
>>>
>>> Kind of depends on the loading. For a little heavier load I really like
>>> the Trylon STG. Solid rod, goes together smooth. Self support for limited
>>> load to something like 70'.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 2:09 PM Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications
>>> Inc  wrote:
>>>
>>> Where you geeks buying these from these days?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Tyson Burris, President*
>>> *Internet Communications Inc.*
>>> *739 Commerce Dr.*
>>> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>>>
>>> *317-738-0320 <317-738-0320> Daytime #*
>>> *317-412-1540 <317-412-1540> Cell/Direct #*
>>> *Online: **www.surfici.net* 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *What can ICI do for you?*
>>>
>>>
>>> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones -
>>> IP Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.*
>>>
>>> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
>>> *addressee shown. It contains information that is*
>>> *confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
>>> *dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
>>> *unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
>>> *prohibited.*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] 100 Foot Towers and Less

[Jason McKemie]

Yeah, I've climbed some 25Gs that I probably shouldn't have...

On Friday, July 1, 2016, Sean Heskett  wrote:

> as always "it depends" the ROHN manual will have the exact specs.
>
> I wouldn't go above 30 feet without guy wires, the system is designed to
> be a loaded spring which is what gives it strength.
>
> if you are putting up a 4' dish, i'd want guy wires even at 30 feet, if
> you are putting an SM up you might be able to go to 40 feet...but climbing
> it would be sketchy :-/
>
> -sean
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 4:48 PM, Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com
> > wrote:
>
>> How tall can you take a 45 or 55 without guy wires?
>>
>>
>> On Friday, July 1, 2016, Eric Kuhnke > > wrote:
>>
>>> How about Rohn 45G, 55G or 65G pieces from www.3starinc.com ?  They
>>> also sell the full Rohn kits that come with everything. If you want
>>> something stronger/shorter than a normal design (like a 90' 65G with
>>> heavier than usual guying, for big dishes) you can easily see the
>>> individual component pieces and put together an Excel sheet for your total
>>> cost.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 2:51 PM, Robert Haas 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Coincidentally, I was going to ask a similar question.

 I’m looking for suggestions for a 60’-80’ tower (preferred guyed) that
 will hold a 4’ dish. The STG looks like it may work well.









 *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Lewis Bergman
 *Sent:* Wednesday, June 29, 2016 3:24 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com; memb...@wispa.org
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 100 Foot Towers and Less



 Hutton, Rohn, Talley. So many options. Direct Rohn rep is
 bobby.tann...@rohnnet.com.

 Kind of depends on the loading. For a little heavier load I really like
 the Trylon STG. Solid rod, goes together smooth. Self support for limited
 load to something like 70'.

 On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 2:09 PM Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications
 Inc  wrote:

 Where you geeks buying these from these days?



 *Tyson Burris, President*
 *Internet Communications Inc.*
 *739 Commerce Dr.*
 *Franklin, IN 46131*

 *317-738-0320 <317-738-0320> Daytime #*
 *317-412-1540 <317-412-1540> Cell/Direct #*
 *Online: **www.surfici.net* 



 *What can ICI do for you?*


 *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones -
 IP Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.*

 *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
 *addressee shown. It contains information that is*
 *confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
 *dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
 *unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
 *prohibited.*




>>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cogent

[Josh Reynolds]

Service changes take forever. Sales runs everything. 14% of our routes have
a best hop to them, others to HE. (Telia added soon)
On Jul 1, 2016 5:52 PM, "Jason McKemie" 
wrote:

> Does anyone have experience with Cogent as a primary upstream? Good, bad,
> ugly? I assume the service location makes some difference as well.
>
> -Jason
>

Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

[Peter Kranz]

“Originally, the connector was designed to carry signals at frequencies up to 1 
GHz   in military applications, but today's 
common Type N easily handles frequencies up to 11 GHz. More recent precision 
enhancements to the design by Julius Botka at Hewlett Packard 
  have pushed this to 18 GHz.”

 

http://inmet.apitech.com/inmet/micro-inmet-between-typen.cfm

 

Peter Kranz
  www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
  pkr...@unwiredltd.com

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 3:24 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

 

Yeah, I think this is a case of somebody bowing their neck - a pissing contest 
between a boss and underlings at UBNT.  

 

From: Eric Kuhnke   

Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 4:19 PM

To: af@afmug.com   

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

 

I have never in my life personally seen an N connector rated above 11 GHz. 
High-quality/expensive N connectors are used extensively in two way satellite - 
such as with 3.0 meter C-band Tx/Rx earth station dishes...  But you only use N 
for the 50 ohm coax cables from the modem (indoors) to the electronics which 
lives directly attached to the waveguide/feed on the dish (Rx LNB and Tx 
SSPA/BUC). 

The coax is used between 1.2 to 1.8 GHz to communicate with the Tx and Rx 
electronics on the dish. A satellite LNB on the Rx side is basically a 10:1 
ratio downconverter.

Like so: http://beta.satcomresources.com/sca/images/NORS3120N_detail-3.jpg

There's your single polarity waveguide interface on one side, N on the other. 

 

On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 6:49 AM, Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

First of all, I have never seen an N connector rated above 11 GHz, and those 
are extra expensive.

If there is an 18 GHz version, it will be even more expensive.  

 

This will not be a cable you can make yourself in the field and it will be very 
sensitive to being fully seated so you will probably have to use a torque 
wrench to make it work at 18 GHz.  

 

Silly.  You can weatherproof an SMA just as easy as an N connector.  Good 
heatshrink can be found for both.  

Folks trying to use N connectors at 18 GHz are going to quickly get introduced 
to the world of return loss problems.  

 

 

 

Von: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com  ] Im Auftrag 
von Rob Genovesi
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 30. Juni 2016 01:32
An: af@afmug.com  
Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

 

>From Gary-UBNT:

"We are working on data sheets right now so hopefully you will get more 
questions answered shortly.  The reason for N connectors relates to demand for 
higher mechanical robustness and the ability for the connectors to be 
weather-proof as a stand alone connector (fully weatherproof gaskets and the 
ability to accept larger diameter jumpers readily).  The N connectors we use 
are rated to 18+ GHz."

An active thread on the UBNT forums right now, more available here: 
http://community.ubnt.com/t5/airFiber/Some-AF11X-details/td-p/1512145

-Rob

 

On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 12:05 PM, Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I'm looking at all the other AF-nnX radios from UBNT, and they all use SMA 
connectors. What reason would they have to use N instead of SMA? Seems the SMA 
connector would have fewer issues at 11 GHz. 

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Cogent

[Eric Kuhnke]

Expect that significant chunks of the internet might be unreachable for
large periods of time due to Cogent's occasional peering disputes with
other large tier-1/2 ISPs.



On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 3:52 PM, Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> Does anyone have experience with Cogent as a primary upstream? Good, bad,
> ugly? I assume the service location makes some difference as well.
>
> -Jason
>

Re: [AFMUG] 100 Foot Towers and Less

[Eric Kuhnke]

20', maybe 30' if bracketed to the side of a house. Really not what it's
intended to do. Also varies greatly with wind loading, a 40' 55G with some
VHF/UHF whip antennas on top is going to be very different than if you were
to try putting several 2' dishes on top.

On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 3:48 PM, Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> How tall can you take a 45 or 55 without guy wires?
>
> On Friday, July 1, 2016, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:
>
>> How about Rohn 45G, 55G or 65G pieces from www.3starinc.com ?  They also
>> sell the full Rohn kits that come with everything. If you want something
>> stronger/shorter than a normal design (like a 90' 65G with heavier than
>> usual guying, for big dishes) you can easily see the individual component
>> pieces and put together an Excel sheet for your total cost.
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 2:51 PM, Robert Haas 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Coincidentally, I was going to ask a similar question.
>>>
>>> I’m looking for suggestions for a 60’-80’ tower (preferred guyed) that
>>> will hold a 4’ dish. The STG looks like it may work well.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Lewis Bergman
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 29, 2016 3:24 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com; memb...@wispa.org
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 100 Foot Towers and Less
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hutton, Rohn, Talley. So many options. Direct Rohn rep is
>>> bobby.tann...@rohnnet.com.
>>>
>>> Kind of depends on the loading. For a little heavier load I really like
>>> the Trylon STG. Solid rod, goes together smooth. Self support for limited
>>> load to something like 70'.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 2:09 PM Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications
>>> Inc  wrote:
>>>
>>> Where you geeks buying these from these days?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Tyson Burris, President*
>>> *Internet Communications Inc.*
>>> *739 Commerce Dr.*
>>> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>>>
>>> *317-738-0320 Daytime #*
>>> *317-412-1540 Cell/Direct #*
>>> *Online: **www.surfici.net* 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *What can ICI do for you?*
>>>
>>>
>>> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones -
>>> IP Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.*
>>>
>>> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
>>> *addressee shown. It contains information that is*
>>> *confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
>>> *dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
>>> *unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
>>> *prohibited.*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Cogent

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

our upstream dumped them

On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 6:22 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

> Expect that significant chunks of the internet might be unreachable for
> large periods of time due to Cogent's occasional peering disputes with
> other large tier-1/2 ISPs.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 3:52 PM, Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
>> Does anyone have experience with Cogent as a primary upstream? Good, bad,
>> ugly? I assume the service location makes some difference as well.
>>
>> -Jason
>>
>
>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Cogent

[Craig Schmaderer]

I would never use them.  Ever.  I have a upstream issue with them on my 
Centurlylink circuit. Those 2 idiots have been arguing on that peer agreement 
for 6 months now.

Craig Schmaderer
Cell 402-380-1245
Skywave Wireless, Inc.




On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 6:29 PM -0500, "That One Guy /sarcasm" 
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:

our upstream dumped them

On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 6:22 PM, Eric Kuhnke 
mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Expect that significant chunks of the internet might be unreachable for large 
periods of time due to Cogent's occasional peering disputes with other large 
tier-1/2 ISPs.



On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 3:52 PM, Jason McKemie 
mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>> 
wrote:
Does anyone have experience with Cogent as a primary upstream? Good, bad, ugly? 
I assume the service location makes some difference as well.

-Jason




--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

[Chuck McCown]

IMHO, 6 GHz is the upper limit.  

From: Peter Kranz 
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 5:22 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

“Originally, the connector was designed to carry signals at frequencies up to 1 
GHz in military applications, but today's common Type N easily handles 
frequencies up to 11 GHz. More recent precision enhancements to the design by 
Julius Botka at Hewlett Packard have pushed this to 18 GHz.”

 

http://inmet.apitech.com/inmet/micro-inmet-between-typen.cfm

 

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 3:24 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

 

Yeah, I think this is a case of somebody bowing their neck - a pissing contest 
between a boss and underlings at UBNT.  

 

From: Eric Kuhnke 

Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 4:19 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

 

I have never in my life personally seen an N connector rated above 11 GHz. 
High-quality/expensive N connectors are used extensively in two way satellite - 
such as with 3.0 meter C-band Tx/Rx earth station dishes...  But you only use N 
for the 50 ohm coax cables from the modem (indoors) to the electronics which 
lives directly attached to the waveguide/feed on the dish (Rx LNB and Tx 
SSPA/BUC). 

The coax is used between 1.2 to 1.8 GHz to communicate with the Tx and Rx 
electronics on the dish. A satellite LNB on the Rx side is basically a 10:1 
ratio downconverter.

Like so: http://beta.satcomresources.com/sca/images/NORS3120N_detail-3.jpg

There's your single polarity waveguide interface on one side, N on the other. 

 

On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 6:49 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  First of all, I have never seen an N connector rated above 11 GHz, and those 
are extra expensive.

  If there is an 18 GHz version, it will be even more expensive.  

   

  This will not be a cable you can make yourself in the field and it will be 
very sensitive to being fully seated so you will probably have to use a torque 
wrench to make it work at 18 GHz.  

   

  Silly.  You can weatherproof an SMA just as easy as an N connector.  Good 
heatshrink can be found for both.  

  Folks trying to use N connectors at 18 GHz are going to quickly get 
introduced to the world of return loss problems.  

   

   

   

  Von: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] Im Auftrag von Rob Genovesi
  Gesendet: Donnerstag, 30. Juni 2016 01:32
  An: af@afmug.com
  Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

   

  From Gary-UBNT:

  "We are working on data sheets right now so hopefully you will get more 
questions answered shortly.  The reason for N connectors relates to demand for 
higher mechanical robustness and the ability for the connectors to be 
weather-proof as a stand alone connector (fully weatherproof gaskets and the 
ability to accept larger diameter jumpers readily).  The N connectors we use 
are rated to 18+ GHz."

  An active thread on the UBNT forums right now, more available here: 
http://community.ubnt.com/t5/airFiber/Some-AF11X-details/td-p/1512145

  -Rob

   

  On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 12:05 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:

I'm looking at all the other AF-nnX radios from UBNT, and they all use SMA 
connectors. What reason would they have to use N instead of SMA? Seems the SMA 
connector would have fewer issues at 11 GHz. 

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Cogent

[Mike Hammett]

Location does make a big difference. I would in no way use them for a single 
upstream. For one, Cogent doesn't have the entire IPv6 Internet. They are great 
in a mix, especially if you have a route management platform or take only 
customer routes. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Jason McKemie"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2016 5:52:04 PM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Cogent 

Does anyone have experience with Cogent as a primary upstream? Good, bad, ugly? 
I assume the service location makes some difference as well. 


-Jason 

Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

[Josh Reynolds]

So, nothing personal by this... but if the connector is designed for it
(and has several versions by other manufacturers to boot), has been used
(and is still used) on testing equipment... I'm probably more inclined to
take their word for it over yours.
On Jul 1, 2016 7:58 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> IMHO, 6 GHz is the upper limit.
>
> *From:* Peter Kranz 
> *Sent:* Friday, July 01, 2016 5:22 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N
>
>
> “Originally, the connector was designed to carry signals at frequencies
> up to 1 GHz  in military applications,
> but today's common Type N easily handles frequencies up to 11 GHz. More
> recent precision enhancements to the design by Julius Botka at Hewlett
> Packard  have pushed this
> to 18 GHz.”
>
>
>
> http://inmet.apitech.com/inmet/micro-inmet-between-typen.cfm
>
>
>
>
> *Peter Kranz*www.UnwiredLtd.com 
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> Mobile: 510-207-
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 30, 2016 3:24 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N
>
>
>
> Yeah, I think this is a case of somebody bowing their neck - a pissing
> contest between a boss and underlings at UBNT.
>
>
>
> *From:* Eric Kuhnke 
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 30, 2016 4:19 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N
>
>
>
> I have never in my life personally seen an N connector rated above 11 GHz.
> High-quality/expensive N connectors are used extensively in two way
> satellite - such as with 3.0 meter C-band Tx/Rx earth station dishes...
> But you only use N for the 50 ohm coax cables from the modem (indoors) to
> the electronics which lives directly attached to the waveguide/feed on the
> dish (Rx LNB and Tx SSPA/BUC).
>
> The coax is used between 1.2 to 1.8 GHz to communicate with the Tx and Rx
> electronics on the dish. A satellite LNB on the Rx side is basically a 10:1
> ratio downconverter.
>
> Like so: http://beta.satcomresources.com/sca/images/NORS3120N_detail-3.jpg
>
> There's your single polarity waveguide interface on one side, N on the
> other.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 6:49 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> First of all, I have never seen an N connector rated above 11 GHz, and
> those are extra expensive.
>
> If there is an 18 GHz version, it will be even more expensive.
>
>
>
> This will not be a cable you can make yourself in the field and it will be
> very sensitive to being fully seated so you will probably have to use a
> torque wrench to make it work at 18 GHz.
>
>
>
> Silly.  You can weatherproof an SMA just as easy as an N connector.  Good
> heatshrink can be found for both.
>
> Folks trying to use N connectors at 18 GHz are going to quickly get
> introduced to the world of return loss problems.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Von:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *Im Auftrag von *Rob Genovesi
> *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 30. Juni 2016 01:32
> *An:* af@afmug.com
> *Betreff:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N
>
>
>
> From Gary-UBNT:
>
> "We are working on data sheets right now so hopefully you will get more
> questions answered shortly.  The reason for N connectors relates to demand
> for higher mechanical robustness and the ability for the connectors to be
> weather-proof as a stand alone connector (fully weatherproof gaskets and
> the ability to accept larger diameter jumpers readily).  The N connectors
> we use are rated to 18+ GHz."
>
> An active thread on the UBNT forums right now, more available here:
> http://community.ubnt.com/t5/airFiber/Some-AF11X-details/td-p/1512145
>
> -Rob
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 12:05 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>
> I'm looking at all the other AF-nnX radios from UBNT, and they all use SMA
> connectors. What reason would they have to use N instead of SMA? Seems the
> SMA connector would have fewer issues at 11 GHz.
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 100 Foot Towers and Less

[Mike Hammett]

https://www.tessco.com/selector/tower/ 






- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Robert Haas"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2016 4:51:54 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 100 Foot Towers and Less 



Coincidentally, I was going to ask a similar question. 
I’m looking for suggestions for a 60’-80’ tower (preferred guyed) that will 
hold a 4’ dish. The STG looks like it may work well. 




From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2016 3:24 PM 
To: af@afmug.com; memb...@wispa.org 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 100 Foot Towers and Less 


Hutton, Rohn, Talley. So many options. Direct Rohn rep is 
bobby.tann...@rohnnet.com . 

Kind of depends on the loading. For a little heavier load I really like the 
Trylon STG. Solid rod, goes together smooth. Self support for limited load to 
something like 70'. 


On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 2:09 PM Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications Inc < 
t...@franklinisp.net > wrote: 




Where you geeks buying these from these days? 

Tyson Burris, President 
Internet Communications Inc. 
739 Commerce Dr. 
Franklin, IN 46131 

317-738-0320 Daytime # 
317-412-1540 Cell/Direct # 
Online: www.surfici.net 


What can ICI do for you? 

Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP 
Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure. 

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the 
addressee shown. It contains information that is 
confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review, 
dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by 
unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly 
prohibited. 

Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

[Chuck McCown]

Type N connectors are not in common use above 6 GHz.  Believe me or not.  

You wanna go above 6, there are plenty of other cheaper and better connectors 
to use.  N connector concentricity is not inherent to the design of the 
connector.  And concentricity is essential to good return loss.  

You send me an N connector cable.  I will put it on a load and connect it to a 
vector network analyzer with a smith chart on the screen.   Will record video.  
Then I will wiggle the cable and back off the connector a bit you can see for  
yourself the dot (arc actually)  wander all over the place.  The higher the 
frequency the more it becomes a wild line.  

Then I will do the same for SMA and you can see for yourself which one is more 
stable.   Opinions don’t matter.  A dot is a dot, an arc is an arc and a 
squiggly line is a squiggly line.  

From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 7:53 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

So, nothing personal by this... but if the connector is designed for it (and 
has several versions by other manufacturers to boot), has been used (and is 
still used) on testing equipment... I'm probably more inclined to take their 
word for it over yours.

On Jul 1, 2016 7:58 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

  IMHO, 6 GHz is the upper limit.  

  From: Peter Kranz 
  Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 5:22 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

  “Originally, the connector was designed to carry signals at frequencies up to 
1 GHz in military applications, but today's common Type N easily handles 
frequencies up to 11 GHz. More recent precision enhancements to the design by 
Julius Botka at Hewlett Packard have pushed this to 18 GHz.”



  http://inmet.apitech.com/inmet/micro-inmet-between-typen.cfm



  Peter Kranz
  www.UnwiredLtd.com
  Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
  Mobile: 510-207-
  pkr...@unwiredltd.com



  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
  Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 3:24 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N



  Yeah, I think this is a case of somebody bowing their neck - a pissing 
contest between a boss and underlings at UBNT.  



  From: Eric Kuhnke 

  Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 4:19 PM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N



  I have never in my life personally seen an N connector rated above 11 GHz. 
High-quality/expensive N connectors are used extensively in two way satellite - 
such as with 3.0 meter C-band Tx/Rx earth station dishes...  But you only use N 
for the 50 ohm coax cables from the modem (indoors) to the electronics which 
lives directly attached to the waveguide/feed on the dish (Rx LNB and Tx 
SSPA/BUC). 

  The coax is used between 1.2 to 1.8 GHz to communicate with the Tx and Rx 
electronics on the dish. A satellite LNB on the Rx side is basically a 10:1 
ratio downconverter.

  Like so: http://beta.satcomresources.com/sca/images/NORS3120N_detail-3.jpg

  There's your single polarity waveguide interface on one side, N on the other. 



  On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 6:49 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

First of all, I have never seen an N connector rated above 11 GHz, and 
those are extra expensive.

If there is an 18 GHz version, it will be even more expensive.  



This will not be a cable you can make yourself in the field and it will be 
very sensitive to being fully seated so you will probably have to use a torque 
wrench to make it work at 18 GHz.  



Silly.  You can weatherproof an SMA just as easy as an N connector.  Good 
heatshrink can be found for both.  

Folks trying to use N connectors at 18 GHz are going to quickly get 
introduced to the world of return loss problems.  







Von: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] Im Auftrag von Rob Genovesi
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 30. Juni 2016 01:32
An: af@afmug.com
Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N



From Gary-UBNT:

"We are working on data sheets right now so hopefully you will get more 
questions answered shortly.  The reason for N connectors relates to demand for 
higher mechanical robustness and the ability for the connectors to be 
weather-proof as a stand alone connector (fully weatherproof gaskets and the 
ability to accept larger diameter jumpers readily).  The N connectors we use 
are rated to 18+ GHz."

An active thread on the UBNT forums right now, more available here: 
http://community.ubnt.com/t5/airFiber/Some-AF11X-details/td-p/1512145

-Rob



On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 12:05 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:

  I'm looking at all the other AF-nnX radios from UBNT, and they all use 
SMA connectors. What reason would they have to use N instead of SMA? Seems the 
SMA connector would have fewer issues at 11 GHz. 

Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

[Josh Reynolds]

I'm saying the same thing. Take the connector designed for it, thrown your
opinion in the trash, and post the results. Repeat the test. Have someone
else repeat the test. Scientific method.
On Jul 1, 2016 9:10 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> Type N connectors are not in common use above 6 GHz.  Believe me or not.
>
> You wanna go above 6, there are plenty of other cheaper and better
> connectors to use.  N connector concentricity is not inherent to the design
> of the connector.  And concentricity is essential to good return loss.
>
> You send me an N connector cable.  I will put it on a load and connect it
> to a vector network analyzer with a smith chart on the screen.   Will
> record video.  Then I will wiggle the cable and back off the connector a
> bit you can see for  yourself the dot (arc actually)  wander all over the
> place.  The higher the frequency the more it becomes a wild line.
>
> Then I will do the same for SMA and you can see for yourself which one is
> more stable.   Opinions don’t matter.  A dot is a dot, an arc is an arc and
> a squiggly line is a squiggly line.
>
> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
> *Sent:* Friday, July 01, 2016 7:53 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N
>
>
> So, nothing personal by this... but if the connector is designed for it
> (and has several versions by other manufacturers to boot), has been used
> (and is still used) on testing equipment... I'm probably more inclined to
> take their word for it over yours.
> On Jul 1, 2016 7:58 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
>> IMHO, 6 GHz is the upper limit.
>>
>> *From:* Peter Kranz 
>> *Sent:* Friday, July 01, 2016 5:22 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N
>>
>>
>> “Originally, the connector was designed to carry signals at frequencies
>> up to 1 GHz  in military
>> applications, but today's common Type N easily handles frequencies up to 11
>> GHz. More recent precision enhancements to the design by Julius Botka at 
>> Hewlett
>> Packard  have pushed this
>> to 18 GHz.”
>>
>>
>>
>> http://inmet.apitech.com/inmet/micro-inmet-between-typen.cfm
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Peter Kranz*www.UnwiredLtd.com 
>> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
>> Mobile: 510-207-
>> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 30, 2016 3:24 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N
>>
>>
>>
>> Yeah, I think this is a case of somebody bowing their neck - a pissing
>> contest between a boss and underlings at UBNT.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Eric Kuhnke 
>>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 30, 2016 4:19 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N
>>
>>
>>
>> I have never in my life personally seen an N connector rated above 11
>> GHz. High-quality/expensive N connectors are used extensively in two way
>> satellite - such as with 3.0 meter C-band Tx/Rx earth station dishes...
>> But you only use N for the 50 ohm coax cables from the modem (indoors) to
>> the electronics which lives directly attached to the waveguide/feed on the
>> dish (Rx LNB and Tx SSPA/BUC).
>>
>> The coax is used between 1.2 to 1.8 GHz to communicate with the Tx and Rx
>> electronics on the dish. A satellite LNB on the Rx side is basically a 10:1
>> ratio downconverter.
>>
>> Like so:
>> http://beta.satcomresources.com/sca/images/NORS3120N_detail-3.jpg
>>
>> There's your single polarity waveguide interface on one side, N on the
>> other.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 6:49 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>> First of all, I have never seen an N connector rated above 11 GHz, and
>> those are extra expensive.
>>
>> If there is an 18 GHz version, it will be even more expensive.
>>
>>
>>
>> This will not be a cable you can make yourself in the field and it will
>> be very sensitive to being fully seated so you will probably have to use a
>> torque wrench to make it work at 18 GHz.
>>
>>
>>
>> Silly.  You can weatherproof an SMA just as easy as an N connector.  Good
>> heatshrink can be found for both.
>>
>> Folks trying to use N connectors at 18 GHz are going to quickly get
>> introduced to the world of return loss problems.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Von:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *Im Auftrag von *Rob Genovesi
>> *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 30. Juni 2016 01:32
>> *An:* af@afmug.com
>> *Betreff:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N
>>
>>
>>
>> From Gary-UBNT:
>>
>> "We are working on data sheets right now so hopefully you will get more
>> questions answered shortly.  The reason for N connectors relates to demand
>> for higher mechanical robustness and the ability for the connectors to be
>> weather-proof as a stand alone connector (fully weatherproof gaskets and
>> the ability to accept larger diameter jumpers readily).  The N 

Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

[Josh Reynolds]

Let me clarify something, I'm not taking about comparing N to SMA, I'm
talking about verifying these high quality N connectors are suitable for
use in low to medium cost licensed backhaul links.
On Jul 1, 2016 9:12 PM, wrote:

> I'm saying the same thing. Take the connector designed for it, thrown your
> opinion in the trash, and post the results. Repeat the test. Have someone
> else repeat the test. Scientific method.
> On Jul 1, 2016 9:10 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
>> Type N connectors are not in common use above 6 GHz.  Believe me or not.
>>
>> You wanna go above 6, there are plenty of other cheaper and better
>> connectors to use.  N connector concentricity is not inherent to the design
>> of the connector.  And concentricity is essential to good return loss.
>>
>> You send me an N connector cable.  I will put it on a load and connect it
>> to a vector network analyzer with a smith chart on the screen.   Will
>> record video.  Then I will wiggle the cable and back off the connector a
>> bit you can see for  yourself the dot (arc actually)  wander all over the
>> place.  The higher the frequency the more it becomes a wild line.
>>
>> Then I will do the same for SMA and you can see for yourself which one is
>> more stable.   Opinions don’t matter.  A dot is a dot, an arc is an arc and
>> a squiggly line is a squiggly line.
>>
>> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
>> *Sent:* Friday, July 01, 2016 7:53 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N
>>
>>
>> So, nothing personal by this... but if the connector is designed for it
>> (and has several versions by other manufacturers to boot), has been used
>> (and is still used) on testing equipment... I'm probably more inclined to
>> take their word for it over yours.
>> On Jul 1, 2016 7:58 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>
>>> IMHO, 6 GHz is the upper limit.
>>>
>>> *From:* Peter Kranz 
>>> *Sent:* Friday, July 01, 2016 5:22 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N
>>>
>>>
>>> “Originally, the connector was designed to carry signals at frequencies
>>> up to 1 GHz  in military
>>> applications, but today's common Type N easily handles frequencies up to 11
>>> GHz. More recent precision enhancements to the design by Julius Botka at 
>>> Hewlett
>>> Packard  have pushed
>>> this to 18 GHz.”
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://inmet.apitech.com/inmet/micro-inmet-between-typen.cfm
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Peter Kranz*www.UnwiredLtd.com 
>>> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
>>> Mobile: 510-207-
>>> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 30, 2016 3:24 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yeah, I think this is a case of somebody bowing their neck - a pissing
>>> contest between a boss and underlings at UBNT.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Eric Kuhnke 
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 30, 2016 4:19 PM
>>>
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have never in my life personally seen an N connector rated above 11
>>> GHz. High-quality/expensive N connectors are used extensively in two way
>>> satellite - such as with 3.0 meter C-band Tx/Rx earth station dishes...
>>> But you only use N for the 50 ohm coax cables from the modem (indoors) to
>>> the electronics which lives directly attached to the waveguide/feed on the
>>> dish (Rx LNB and Tx SSPA/BUC).
>>>
>>> The coax is used between 1.2 to 1.8 GHz to communicate with the Tx and
>>> Rx electronics on the dish. A satellite LNB on the Rx side is basically a
>>> 10:1 ratio downconverter.
>>>
>>> Like so:
>>> http://beta.satcomresources.com/sca/images/NORS3120N_detail-3.jpg
>>>
>>> There's your single polarity waveguide interface on one side, N on the
>>> other.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 6:49 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>
>>> First of all, I have never seen an N connector rated above 11 GHz, and
>>> those are extra expensive.
>>>
>>> If there is an 18 GHz version, it will be even more expensive.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This will not be a cable you can make yourself in the field and it will
>>> be very sensitive to being fully seated so you will probably have to use a
>>> torque wrench to make it work at 18 GHz.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Silly.  You can weatherproof an SMA just as easy as an N connector.
>>> Good heatshrink can be found for both.
>>>
>>> Folks trying to use N connectors at 18 GHz are going to quickly get
>>> introduced to the world of return loss problems.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Von:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *Im Auftrag von *Rob Genovesi
>>> *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 30. Juni 2016 01:32
>>> *An:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Betreff:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From Gary-UBNT:
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

[Chuck McCown]

Here is  the thing, you buy a radio that has 11 or 18 GHz appearing on an N 
connector.

Then you purchase a cable from your favorite cable place.  Connect the two and 
wonder why you are having problems.  

If  you get a cable that actually has connectors rated for the frequency if 
they did not sweep it, there is  no guarantee it will work properly.  And if 
they did sweep it it is going to cost a ton.  

SMA is cheap, easy and always works at those frequencies.  N is only cheap and 
easy below 6 GHz.  
I am  not saying a connector that is rated for the frequency will  not do the 
job, but the connector is just the first step.  If you do not use extreme 
precision at 18 GHz then sweep the cable with the proper gear it is going to 
have problems.  Things like terminations at 18 GHz are not even trivial.  It is 
so hard to get a good 50 ohm termination for calibration you generally use a 
sliding load.  (Actually, you are normally using waveguide at 18 GHz.  )

I do – do this for a living, you know...

From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 8:13 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

I'm saying the same thing. Take the connector designed for it, thrown your 
opinion in the trash, and post the results. Repeat the test. Have someone else 
repeat the test. Scientific method.

On Jul 1, 2016 9:10 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

  Type N connectors are not in common use above 6 GHz.  Believe me or not.  

  You wanna go above 6, there are plenty of other cheaper and better connectors 
to use.  N connector concentricity is not inherent to the design of the 
connector.  And concentricity is essential to good return loss.  

  You send me an N connector cable.  I will put it on a load and connect it to 
a vector network analyzer with a smith chart on the screen.   Will record 
video.  Then I will wiggle the cable and back off the connector a bit you can 
see for  yourself the dot (arc actually)  wander all over the place.  The 
higher the frequency the more it becomes a wild line.  

  Then I will do the same for SMA and you can see for yourself which one is 
more stable.   Opinions don’t matter.  A dot is a dot, an arc is an arc and a 
squiggly line is a squiggly line.  

  From: Josh Reynolds 
  Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 7:53 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

  So, nothing personal by this... but if the connector is designed for it (and 
has several versions by other manufacturers to boot), has been used (and is 
still used) on testing equipment... I'm probably more inclined to take their 
word for it over yours.

  On Jul 1, 2016 7:58 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

IMHO, 6 GHz is the upper limit.  

From: Peter Kranz 
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 5:22 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

“Originally, the connector was designed to carry signals at frequencies up 
to 1 GHz in military applications, but today's common Type N easily handles 
frequencies up to 11 GHz. More recent precision enhancements to the design by 
Julius Botka at Hewlett Packard have pushed this to 18 GHz.”



http://inmet.apitech.com/inmet/micro-inmet-between-typen.cfm



Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 3:24 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N



Yeah, I think this is a case of somebody bowing their neck - a pissing 
contest between a boss and underlings at UBNT.  



From: Eric Kuhnke 

Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 4:19 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N



I have never in my life personally seen an N connector rated above 11 GHz. 
High-quality/expensive N connectors are used extensively in two way satellite - 
such as with 3.0 meter C-band Tx/Rx earth station dishes...  But you only use N 
for the 50 ohm coax cables from the modem (indoors) to the electronics which 
lives directly attached to the waveguide/feed on the dish (Rx LNB and Tx 
SSPA/BUC). 

The coax is used between 1.2 to 1.8 GHz to communicate with the Tx and Rx 
electronics on the dish. A satellite LNB on the Rx side is basically a 10:1 
ratio downconverter.

Like so: http://beta.satcomresources.com/sca/images/NORS3120N_detail-3.jpg

There's your single polarity waveguide interface on one side, N on the 
other. 



On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 6:49 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  First of all, I have never seen an N connector rated above 11 GHz, and 
those are extra expensive.

  If there is an 18 GHz version, it will be even more expensive.  



  This will not be a cable you can make yourself in the field and it will 
be very sensitive to being fully seated so you will probably have

Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

[Josh Reynolds]

Right, and so do the people you're talking about - keep it in mind they've
already tested these.

I brought up this exact issue by the way, when they (idiot customer) fuck
up a connector and buy one from BillyBobs HAM shop and wonder why it
doesn't work.

I was told the cost on these was low, and they would be sold like any other
connector or accessory. I mean, you DO buy spares for licensed backhaul,
right?

I was also told they are working on "other accessories" for this radio that
will be some of the highest quality in the industry.
On Jul 1, 2016 9:27 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> Here is  the thing, you buy a radio that has 11 or 18 GHz appearing on an
> N connector.
>
> Then you purchase a cable from your favorite cable place.  Connect the two
> and wonder why you are having problems.
>
> If  you get a cable that actually has connectors rated for the frequency
> if they did not sweep it, there is  no guarantee it will work properly.
> And if they did sweep it it is going to cost a ton.
>
> SMA is cheap, easy and always works at those frequencies.  N is only cheap
> and easy below 6 GHz.
> I am  not saying a connector that is rated for the frequency will  not do
> the job, but the connector is just the first step.  If you do not use
> extreme precision at 18 GHz then sweep the cable with the proper gear it is
> going to have problems.  Things like terminations at 18 GHz are not even
> trivial.  It is so hard to get a good 50 ohm termination for calibration
> you generally use a sliding load.  (Actually, you are normally using
> waveguide at 18 GHz.  )
>
> I do – do this for a living, you know...
>
> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
> *Sent:* Friday, July 01, 2016 8:13 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N
>
>
> I'm saying the same thing. Take the connector designed for it, thrown your
> opinion in the trash, and post the results. Repeat the test. Have someone
> else repeat the test. Scientific method.
> On Jul 1, 2016 9:10 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
>> Type N connectors are not in common use above 6 GHz.  Believe me or not.
>>
>> You wanna go above 6, there are plenty of other cheaper and better
>> connectors to use.  N connector concentricity is not inherent to the design
>> of the connector.  And concentricity is essential to good return loss.
>>
>> You send me an N connector cable.  I will put it on a load and connect it
>> to a vector network analyzer with a smith chart on the screen.   Will
>> record video.  Then I will wiggle the cable and back off the connector a
>> bit you can see for  yourself the dot (arc actually)  wander all over the
>> place.  The higher the frequency the more it becomes a wild line.
>>
>> Then I will do the same for SMA and you can see for yourself which one is
>> more stable.   Opinions don’t matter.  A dot is a dot, an arc is an arc and
>> a squiggly line is a squiggly line.
>>
>> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
>> *Sent:* Friday, July 01, 2016 7:53 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N
>>
>>
>> So, nothing personal by this... but if the connector is designed for it
>> (and has several versions by other manufacturers to boot), has been used
>> (and is still used) on testing equipment... I'm probably more inclined to
>> take their word for it over yours.
>> On Jul 1, 2016 7:58 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>
>>> IMHO, 6 GHz is the upper limit.
>>>
>>> *From:* Peter Kranz 
>>> *Sent:* Friday, July 01, 2016 5:22 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N
>>>
>>>
>>> “Originally, the connector was designed to carry signals at frequencies
>>> up to 1 GHz  in military
>>> applications, but today's common Type N easily handles frequencies up to 11
>>> GHz. More recent precision enhancements to the design by Julius Botka at 
>>> Hewlett
>>> Packard  have pushed
>>> this to 18 GHz.”
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://inmet.apitech.com/inmet/micro-inmet-between-typen.cfm
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Peter Kranz*www.UnwiredLtd.com 
>>> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
>>> Mobile: 510-207-
>>> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 30, 2016 3:24 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yeah, I think this is a case of somebody bowing their neck - a pissing
>>> contest between a boss and underlings at UBNT.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Eric Kuhnke 
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 30, 2016 4:19 PM
>>>
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have never in my life personally seen an N connector rated above 11
>>> GHz. High-quality/expensive N connectors are used extensively in two way
>>> satellite - such as with 3.0 meter C-band Tx/Rx earth station dishe

Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

[Mike Hammett]

UBNT said that they went with N for its increased mechanical robustness and 
weatherproofing. Were they having issues with that at SMA? 

Why go cabled over waveguide at all anyway? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Reynolds"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2016 9:38:01 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N 


Right, and so do the people you're talking about - keep it in mind they've 
already tested these. 
I brought up this exact issue by the way, when they (idiot customer) fuck up a 
connector and buy one from BillyBobs HAM shop and wonder why it doesn't work. 
I was told the cost on these was low, and they would be sold like any other 
connector or accessory. I mean, you DO buy spares for licensed backhaul, right? 
I was also told they are working on "other accessories" for this radio that 
will be some of the highest quality in the industry. 
On Jul 1, 2016 9:27 PM, "Chuck McCown" < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






Here is the thing, you buy a radio that has 11 or 18 GHz appearing on an N 
connector. 

Then you purchase a cable from your favorite cable place. Connect the two and 
wonder why you are having problems. 

If you get a cable that actually has connectors rated for the frequency if they 
did not sweep it, there is no guarantee it will work properly. And if they did 
sweep it it is going to cost a ton. 

SMA is cheap, easy and always works at those frequencies. N is only cheap and 
easy below 6 GHz. 
I am not saying a connector that is rated for the frequency will not do the 
job, but the connector is just the first step. If you do not use extreme 
precision at 18 GHz then sweep the cable with the proper gear it is going to 
have problems. Things like terminations at 18 GHz are not even trivial. It is 
so hard to get a good 50 ohm termination for calibration you generally use a 
sliding load. (Actually, you are normally using waveguide at 18 GHz. ) 

I do – do this for a living, you know... 




From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 8:13 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N 


I'm saying the same thing. Take the connector designed for it, thrown your 
opinion in the trash, and post the results. Repeat the test. Have someone else 
repeat the test. Scientific method. 
On Jul 1, 2016 9:10 PM, "Chuck McCown" < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






Type N connectors are not in common use above 6 GHz. Believe me or not. 

You wanna go above 6, there are plenty of other cheaper and better connectors 
to use. N connector concentricity is not inherent to the design of the 
connector. And concentricity is essential to good return loss. 

You send me an N connector cable. I will put it on a load and connect it to a 
vector network analyzer with a smith chart on the screen. Will record video. 
Then I will wiggle the cable and back off the connector a bit you can see for 
yourself the dot (arc actually) wander all over the place. The higher the 
frequency the more it becomes a wild line. 

Then I will do the same for SMA and you can see for yourself which one is more 
stable. Opinions don’t matter. A dot is a dot, an arc is an arc and a squiggly 
line is a squiggly line. 




From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 7:53 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N 


So, nothing personal by this... but if the connector is designed for it (and 
has several versions by other manufacturers to boot), has been used (and is 
still used) on testing equipment... I'm probably more inclined to take their 
word for it over yours. 
On Jul 1, 2016 7:58 PM, "Chuck McCown" < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






IMHO, 6 GHz is the upper limit. 




From: Peter Kranz 
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 5:22 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N 



“ Originally, the connector was designed to carry signals at frequencies up to 
1 GHz in military applications, but today's common Type N easily handles 
frequencies up to 11 GHz. More recent precision enhancements to the design by 
Julius Botka at Hewlett Packard have pushed this to 18 GHz.” 

http://inmet.apitech.com/inmet/micro-inmet-between-typen.cfm 


Peter Kranz 
www.UnwiredLtd.com 
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100 
Mobile: 510-207- 
pkr...@unwiredltd.com 



From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown 
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 3:24 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N 




Yeah, I think this is a case of somebody bowing their neck - a pissing contest 
between a boss and underlings at UBNT. 






From: Eric Kuhnke 

Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 4:19 PM 

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N 






I have never in my life personally seen an N connector rated above 11 GHz. 
High-quality/expensi

Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

[Josh Reynolds]

You just said the same thing I did 2 days ago. I asked if I could post a
screenshot of the response, but havent been given a go ahead on this yet.

If my understanding is correct, there's about 15 people working on this
radio. 12 of which came from Motorola.
On Jul 1, 2016 9:41 PM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

> UBNT said that they went with N for its increased mechanical robustness
> and weatherproofing. Were they having issues with that at SMA?
>
> Why go cabled over waveguide at all anyway?
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, July 1, 2016 9:38:01 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N
>
> Right, and so do the people you're talking about - keep it in mind they've
> already tested these.
>
> I brought up this exact issue by the way, when they (idiot customer) fuck
> up a connector and buy one from BillyBobs HAM shop and wonder why it
> doesn't work.
>
> I was told the cost on these was low, and they would be sold like any
> other connector or accessory. I mean, you DO buy spares for licensed
> backhaul, right?
>
> I was also told they are working on "other accessories" for this radio
> that will be some of the highest quality in the industry.
> On Jul 1, 2016 9:27 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
>> Here is  the thing, you buy a radio that has 11 or 18 GHz appearing on an
>> N connector.
>>
>> Then you purchase a cable from your favorite cable place.  Connect the
>> two and wonder why you are having problems.
>>
>> If  you get a cable that actually has connectors rated for the frequency
>> if they did not sweep it, there is  no guarantee it will work properly.
>> And if they did sweep it it is going to cost a ton.
>>
>> SMA is cheap, easy and always works at those frequencies.  N is only
>> cheap and easy below 6 GHz.
>> I am  not saying a connector that is rated for the frequency will  not do
>> the job, but the connector is just the first step.  If you do not use
>> extreme precision at 18 GHz then sweep the cable with the proper gear it is
>> going to have problems.  Things like terminations at 18 GHz are not even
>> trivial.  It is so hard to get a good 50 ohm termination for calibration
>> you generally use a sliding load.  (Actually, you are normally using
>> waveguide at 18 GHz.  )
>>
>> I do – do this for a living, you know...
>>
>> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
>> *Sent:* Friday, July 01, 2016 8:13 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N
>>
>>
>> I'm saying the same thing. Take the connector designed for it, thrown
>> your opinion in the trash, and post the results. Repeat the test. Have
>> someone else repeat the test. Scientific method.
>> On Jul 1, 2016 9:10 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>
>>> Type N connectors are not in common use above 6 GHz.  Believe me or
>>> not.
>>>
>>> You wanna go above 6, there are plenty of other cheaper and better
>>> connectors to use.  N connector concentricity is not inherent to the design
>>> of the connector.  And concentricity is essential to good return loss.
>>>
>>> You send me an N connector cable.  I will put it on a load and connect
>>> it to a vector network analyzer with a smith chart on the screen.   Will
>>> record video.  Then I will wiggle the cable and back off the connector a
>>> bit you can see for  yourself the dot (arc actually)  wander all over the
>>> place.  The higher the frequency the more it becomes a wild line.
>>>
>>> Then I will do the same for SMA and you can see for yourself which one
>>> is more stable.   Opinions don’t matter.  A dot is a dot, an arc is an arc
>>> and a squiggly line is a squiggly line.
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
>>> *Sent:* Friday, July 01, 2016 7:53 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N
>>>
>>>
>>> So, nothing personal by this... but if the connector is designed for it
>>> (and has several versions by other manufacturers to boot), has been used
>>> (and is still used) on testing equipment... I'm probably more inclined to
>>> take their word for it over yours.
>>> On Jul 1, 2016 7:58 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>>
 IMHO, 6 GHz is the upper limit.

 *From:* Peter Kranz 
 *Sent:* Friday, July 01, 2016 5:22 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to

Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

[Chuck McCown]

No doubt that the mechanical robustness is better.  Weatherproofing can be done 
to SMA.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 8:41 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

UBNT said that they went with N for its increased mechanical robustness and 
weatherproofing. Were they having issues with that at SMA?

Why go cabled over waveguide at all anyway?




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Josh Reynolds" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2016 9:38:01 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N


Right, and so do the people you're talking about - keep it in mind they've 
already tested these.

I brought up this exact issue by the way, when they (idiot customer) fuck up a 
connector and buy one from BillyBobs HAM shop and wonder why it doesn't work.

I was told the cost on these was low, and they would be sold like any other 
connector or accessory. I mean, you DO buy spares for licensed backhaul, right?

I was also told they are working on "other accessories" for this radio that 
will be some of the highest quality in the industry.

On Jul 1, 2016 9:27 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

  Here is  the thing, you buy a radio that has 11 or 18 GHz appearing on an N 
connector.

  Then you purchase a cable from your favorite cable place.  Connect the two 
and wonder why you are having problems.  

  If  you get a cable that actually has connectors rated for the frequency if 
they did not sweep it, there is  no guarantee it will work properly.  And if 
they did sweep it it is going to cost a ton.  

  SMA is cheap, easy and always works at those frequencies.  N is only cheap 
and easy below 6 GHz.  
  I am  not saying a connector that is rated for the frequency will  not do the 
job, but the connector is just the first step.  If you do not use extreme 
precision at 18 GHz then sweep the cable with the proper gear it is going to 
have problems.  Things like terminations at 18 GHz are not even trivial.  It is 
so hard to get a good 50 ohm termination for calibration you generally use a 
sliding load.  (Actually, you are normally using waveguide at 18 GHz.  )

  I do – do this for a living, you know...

  From: Josh Reynolds 
  Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 8:13 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

  I'm saying the same thing. Take the connector designed for it, thrown your 
opinion in the trash, and post the results. Repeat the test. Have someone else 
repeat the test. Scientific method.

  On Jul 1, 2016 9:10 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

Type N connectors are not in common use above 6 GHz.  Believe me or not.  

You wanna go above 6, there are plenty of other cheaper and better 
connectors to use.  N connector concentricity is not inherent to the design of 
the connector.  And concentricity is essential to good return loss.  

You send me an N connector cable.  I will put it on a load and connect it 
to a vector network analyzer with a smith chart on the screen.   Will record 
video.  Then I will wiggle the cable and back off the connector a bit you can 
see for  yourself the dot (arc actually)  wander all over the place.  The 
higher the frequency the more it becomes a wild line.  

Then I will do the same for SMA and you can see for yourself which one is 
more stable.   Opinions don’t matter.  A dot is a dot, an arc is an arc and a 
squiggly line is a squiggly line.  

From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 7:53 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

So, nothing personal by this... but if the connector is designed for it 
(and has several versions by other manufacturers to boot), has been used (and 
is still used) on testing equipment... I'm probably more inclined to take their 
word for it over yours.

On Jul 1, 2016 7:58 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

  IMHO, 6 GHz is the upper limit.  

  From: Peter Kranz 
  Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 5:22 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

  “Originally, the connector was designed to carry signals at frequencies 
up to 1 GHz in military applications, but today's common Type N easily handles 
frequencies up to 11 GHz. More recent precision enhancements to the design by 
Julius Botka at Hewlett Packard have pushed this to 18 GHz.”



  http://inmet.apitech.com/inmet/micro-inmet-between-typen.cfm



  Peter Kranz
  www.UnwiredLtd.com
  Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
  Mobile: 510-207-
  pkr...@unwiredltd.com



  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
  Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 3:24 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N



  Yeah, I

Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

[Chuck McCown]

It will be interesting to see what “low” means when it comes to a fully tested 
and guaranteed 18 GHz cable.  Perhaps they will supply the cables too.   
Perhaps advances in N connectors are something I am oblivious to.  

From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 8:38 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

Right, and so do the people you're talking about - keep it in mind they've 
already tested these.

I brought up this exact issue by the way, when they (idiot customer) fuck up a 
connector and buy one from BillyBobs HAM shop and wonder why it doesn't work.

I was told the cost on these was low, and they would be sold like any other 
connector or accessory. I mean, you DO buy spares for licensed backhaul, right?

I was also told they are working on "other accessories" for this radio that 
will be some of the highest quality in the industry.

On Jul 1, 2016 9:27 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

  Here is  the thing, you buy a radio that has 11 or 18 GHz appearing on an N 
connector.

  Then you purchase a cable from your favorite cable place.  Connect the two 
and wonder why you are having problems.  

  If  you get a cable that actually has connectors rated for the frequency if 
they did not sweep it, there is  no guarantee it will work properly.  And if 
they did sweep it it is going to cost a ton.  

  SMA is cheap, easy and always works at those frequencies.  N is only cheap 
and easy below 6 GHz.  
  I am  not saying a connector that is rated for the frequency will  not do the 
job, but the connector is just the first step.  If you do not use extreme 
precision at 18 GHz then sweep the cable with the proper gear it is going to 
have problems.  Things like terminations at 18 GHz are not even trivial.  It is 
so hard to get a good 50 ohm termination for calibration you generally use a 
sliding load.  (Actually, you are normally using waveguide at 18 GHz.  )

  I do – do this for a living, you know...

  From: Josh Reynolds 
  Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 8:13 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

  I'm saying the same thing. Take the connector designed for it, thrown your 
opinion in the trash, and post the results. Repeat the test. Have someone else 
repeat the test. Scientific method.

  On Jul 1, 2016 9:10 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

Type N connectors are not in common use above 6 GHz.  Believe me or not.  

You wanna go above 6, there are plenty of other cheaper and better 
connectors to use.  N connector concentricity is not inherent to the design of 
the connector.  And concentricity is essential to good return loss.  

You send me an N connector cable.  I will put it on a load and connect it 
to a vector network analyzer with a smith chart on the screen.   Will record 
video.  Then I will wiggle the cable and back off the connector a bit you can 
see for  yourself the dot (arc actually)  wander all over the place.  The 
higher the frequency the more it becomes a wild line.  

Then I will do the same for SMA and you can see for yourself which one is 
more stable.   Opinions don’t matter.  A dot is a dot, an arc is an arc and a 
squiggly line is a squiggly line.  

From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 7:53 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

So, nothing personal by this... but if the connector is designed for it 
(and has several versions by other manufacturers to boot), has been used (and 
is still used) on testing equipment... I'm probably more inclined to take their 
word for it over yours.

On Jul 1, 2016 7:58 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

  IMHO, 6 GHz is the upper limit.  

  From: Peter Kranz 
  Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 5:22 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

  “Originally, the connector was designed to carry signals at frequencies 
up to 1 GHz in military applications, but today's common Type N easily handles 
frequencies up to 11 GHz. More recent precision enhancements to the design by 
Julius Botka at Hewlett Packard have pushed this to 18 GHz.”



  http://inmet.apitech.com/inmet/micro-inmet-between-typen.cfm



  Peter Kranz
  www.UnwiredLtd.com
  Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
  Mobile: 510-207-
  pkr...@unwiredltd.com



  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
  Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 3:24 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N



  Yeah, I think this is a case of somebody bowing their neck - a pissing 
contest between a boss and underlings at UBNT.  



  From: Eric Kuhnke 

  Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 4:19 PM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N



  I have never in my life personally seen an N connector rated above 11 
GHz. High-quality/e

Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

[Josh Reynolds]

They are part of the base kit...
On Jul 1, 2016 9:44 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> It will be interesting to see what “low” means when it comes to a fully
> tested and guaranteed 18 GHz cable.  Perhaps they will supply the cables
> too.   Perhaps advances in N connectors are something I am oblivious to.
>
> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
> *Sent:* Friday, July 01, 2016 8:38 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N
>
>
> Right, and so do the people you're talking about - keep it in mind they've
> already tested these.
>
> I brought up this exact issue by the way, when they (idiot customer) fuck
> up a connector and buy one from BillyBobs HAM shop and wonder why it
> doesn't work.
>
> I was told the cost on these was low, and they would be sold like any
> other connector or accessory. I mean, you DO buy spares for licensed
> backhaul, right?
>
> I was also told they are working on "other accessories" for this radio
> that will be some of the highest quality in the industry.
> On Jul 1, 2016 9:27 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
>> Here is  the thing, you buy a radio that has 11 or 18 GHz appearing on an
>> N connector.
>>
>> Then you purchase a cable from your favorite cable place.  Connect the
>> two and wonder why you are having problems.
>>
>> If  you get a cable that actually has connectors rated for the frequency
>> if they did not sweep it, there is  no guarantee it will work properly.
>> And if they did sweep it it is going to cost a ton.
>>
>> SMA is cheap, easy and always works at those frequencies.  N is only
>> cheap and easy below 6 GHz.
>> I am  not saying a connector that is rated for the frequency will  not do
>> the job, but the connector is just the first step.  If you do not use
>> extreme precision at 18 GHz then sweep the cable with the proper gear it is
>> going to have problems.  Things like terminations at 18 GHz are not even
>> trivial.  It is so hard to get a good 50 ohm termination for calibration
>> you generally use a sliding load.  (Actually, you are normally using
>> waveguide at 18 GHz.  )
>>
>> I do – do this for a living, you know...
>>
>> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
>> *Sent:* Friday, July 01, 2016 8:13 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N
>>
>>
>> I'm saying the same thing. Take the connector designed for it, thrown
>> your opinion in the trash, and post the results. Repeat the test. Have
>> someone else repeat the test. Scientific method.
>> On Jul 1, 2016 9:10 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>
>>> Type N connectors are not in common use above 6 GHz.  Believe me or
>>> not.
>>>
>>> You wanna go above 6, there are plenty of other cheaper and better
>>> connectors to use.  N connector concentricity is not inherent to the design
>>> of the connector.  And concentricity is essential to good return loss.
>>>
>>> You send me an N connector cable.  I will put it on a load and connect
>>> it to a vector network analyzer with a smith chart on the screen.   Will
>>> record video.  Then I will wiggle the cable and back off the connector a
>>> bit you can see for  yourself the dot (arc actually)  wander all over the
>>> place.  The higher the frequency the more it becomes a wild line.
>>>
>>> Then I will do the same for SMA and you can see for yourself which one
>>> is more stable.   Opinions don’t matter.  A dot is a dot, an arc is an arc
>>> and a squiggly line is a squiggly line.
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
>>> *Sent:* Friday, July 01, 2016 7:53 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N
>>>
>>>
>>> So, nothing personal by this... but if the connector is designed for it
>>> (and has several versions by other manufacturers to boot), has been used
>>> (and is still used) on testing equipment... I'm probably more inclined to
>>> take their word for it over yours.
>>> On Jul 1, 2016 7:58 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>>
 IMHO, 6 GHz is the upper limit.

 *From:* Peter Kranz 
 *Sent:* Friday, July 01, 2016 5:22 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N


 “Originally, the connector was designed to carry signals at
 frequencies up to 1 GHz  in
 military applications, but today's common Type N easily handles frequencies
 up to 11 GHz. More recent precision enhancements to the design by Julius
 Botka at Hewlett Packard
  have pushed this to 18
 GHz.”



 http://inmet.apitech.com/inmet/micro-inmet-between-typen.cfm




 *Peter Kranz*www.UnwiredLtd.com 
 Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
 Mobile: 510-207-
 pkr...@unwiredltd.com



 *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
 *Sent:* Thursday, June 30, 2016 3:24 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert

Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

[Chuck McCown]

It is just damned hard to use cables at 11 GHz and up.  On test gear where you 
are trying to optimize and tune waveguide components, my $1200 huber shuner 
cable is not even that reliable.  You wiggle it and things that should not move 
move on the screen.

I hate using cables when I am above 6 GHz.  

From: Chuck McCown 
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 8:44 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

It will be interesting to see what “low” means when it comes to a fully tested 
and guaranteed 18 GHz cable.  Perhaps they will supply the cables too.   
Perhaps advances in N connectors are something I am oblivious to.  

From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 8:38 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

Right, and so do the people you're talking about - keep it in mind they've 
already tested these.

I brought up this exact issue by the way, when they (idiot customer) fuck up a 
connector and buy one from BillyBobs HAM shop and wonder why it doesn't work.

I was told the cost on these was low, and they would be sold like any other 
connector or accessory. I mean, you DO buy spares for licensed backhaul, right?

I was also told they are working on "other accessories" for this radio that 
will be some of the highest quality in the industry.

On Jul 1, 2016 9:27 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

  Here is  the thing, you buy a radio that has 11 or 18 GHz appearing on an N 
connector.

  Then you purchase a cable from your favorite cable place.  Connect the two 
and wonder why you are having problems.  

  If  you get a cable that actually has connectors rated for the frequency if 
they did not sweep it, there is  no guarantee it will work properly.  And if 
they did sweep it it is going to cost a ton.  

  SMA is cheap, easy and always works at those frequencies.  N is only cheap 
and easy below 6 GHz.  
  I am  not saying a connector that is rated for the frequency will  not do the 
job, but the connector is just the first step.  If you do not use extreme 
precision at 18 GHz then sweep the cable with the proper gear it is going to 
have problems.  Things like terminations at 18 GHz are not even trivial.  It is 
so hard to get a good 50 ohm termination for calibration you generally use a 
sliding load.  (Actually, you are normally using waveguide at 18 GHz.  )

  I do – do this for a living, you know...

  From: Josh Reynolds 
  Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 8:13 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

  I'm saying the same thing. Take the connector designed for it, thrown your 
opinion in the trash, and post the results. Repeat the test. Have someone else 
repeat the test. Scientific method.

  On Jul 1, 2016 9:10 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

Type N connectors are not in common use above 6 GHz.  Believe me or not.  

You wanna go above 6, there are plenty of other cheaper and better 
connectors to use.  N connector concentricity is not inherent to the design of 
the connector.  And concentricity is essential to good return loss.  

You send me an N connector cable.  I will put it on a load and connect it 
to a vector network analyzer with a smith chart on the screen.   Will record 
video.  Then I will wiggle the cable and back off the connector a bit you can 
see for  yourself the dot (arc actually)  wander all over the place.  The 
higher the frequency the more it becomes a wild line.  

Then I will do the same for SMA and you can see for yourself which one is 
more stable.   Opinions don’t matter.  A dot is a dot, an arc is an arc and a 
squiggly line is a squiggly line.  

From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 7:53 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

So, nothing personal by this... but if the connector is designed for it 
(and has several versions by other manufacturers to boot), has been used (and 
is still used) on testing equipment... I'm probably more inclined to take their 
word for it over yours.

On Jul 1, 2016 7:58 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

  IMHO, 6 GHz is the upper limit.  

  From: Peter Kranz 
  Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 5:22 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

  “Originally, the connector was designed to carry signals at frequencies 
up to 1 GHz in military applications, but today's common Type N easily handles 
frequencies up to 11 GHz. More recent precision enhancements to the design by 
Julius Botka at Hewlett Packard have pushed this to 18 GHz.”



  http://inmet.apitech.com/inmet/micro-inmet-between-typen.cfm



  Peter Kranz
  www.UnwiredLtd.com
  Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
  Mobile: 510-207-
  pkr...@unwiredltd.com



  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
  Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 3:24 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: 

Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

[Chuck McCown]

The connectors may very well be designed such they will work at that frequency, 
but the care that is taken when terminating cables with them and the quality of 
the cable is every bit as important.  UBNT ain’t exactly known for high end 
stuff.  (Sorry Chuck M).  I am sure that if it is critical to  the success of 
the  product, they will make it work.  But really, why waste time speculating.  
Time will tell.  

From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 8:23 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

Let me clarify something, I'm not taking about comparing N to SMA, I'm talking 
about verifying these high quality N connectors are suitable for use in low to 
medium cost licensed backhaul links.

On Jul 1, 2016 9:12 PM, wrote:

  I'm saying the same thing. Take the connector designed for it, thrown your 
opinion in the trash, and post the results. Repeat the test. Have someone else 
repeat the test. Scientific method.

  On Jul 1, 2016 9:10 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

Type N connectors are not in common use above 6 GHz.  Believe me or not.  

You wanna go above 6, there are plenty of other cheaper and better 
connectors to use.  N connector concentricity is not inherent to the design of 
the connector.  And concentricity is essential to good return loss.  

You send me an N connector cable.  I will put it on a load and connect it 
to a vector network analyzer with a smith chart on the screen.   Will record 
video.  Then I will wiggle the cable and back off the connector a bit you can 
see for  yourself the dot (arc actually)  wander all over the place.  The 
higher the frequency the more it becomes a wild line.  

Then I will do the same for SMA and you can see for yourself which one is 
more stable.   Opinions don’t matter.  A dot is a dot, an arc is an arc and a 
squiggly line is a squiggly line.  

From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 7:53 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

So, nothing personal by this... but if the connector is designed for it 
(and has several versions by other manufacturers to boot), has been used (and 
is still used) on testing equipment... I'm probably more inclined to take their 
word for it over yours.

On Jul 1, 2016 7:58 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

  IMHO, 6 GHz is the upper limit.  

  From: Peter Kranz 
  Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 5:22 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

  “Originally, the connector was designed to carry signals at frequencies 
up to 1 GHz in military applications, but today's common Type N easily handles 
frequencies up to 11 GHz. More recent precision enhancements to the design by 
Julius Botka at Hewlett Packard have pushed this to 18 GHz.”



  http://inmet.apitech.com/inmet/micro-inmet-between-typen.cfm



  Peter Kranz
  www.UnwiredLtd.com
  Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
  Mobile: 510-207-
  pkr...@unwiredltd.com



  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
  Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 3:24 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N



  Yeah, I think this is a case of somebody bowing their neck - a pissing 
contest between a boss and underlings at UBNT.  



  From: Eric Kuhnke 

  Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 4:19 PM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N



  I have never in my life personally seen an N connector rated above 11 
GHz. High-quality/expensive N connectors are used extensively in two way 
satellite - such as with 3.0 meter C-band Tx/Rx earth station dishes...  But 
you only use N for the 50 ohm coax cables from the modem (indoors) to the 
electronics which lives directly attached to the waveguide/feed on the dish (Rx 
LNB and Tx SSPA/BUC). 

  The coax is used between 1.2 to 1.8 GHz to communicate with the Tx and Rx 
electronics on the dish. A satellite LNB on the Rx side is basically a 10:1 
ratio downconverter.

  Like so: http://beta.satcomresources.com/sca/images/NORS3120N_detail-3.jpg

  There's your single polarity waveguide interface on one side, N on the 
other. 



  On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 6:49 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

First of all, I have never seen an N connector rated above 11 GHz, and 
those are extra expensive.

If there is an 18 GHz version, it will be even more expensive.  



This will not be a cable you can make yourself in the field and it will 
be very sensitive to being fully seated so you will probably have to use a 
torque wrench to make it work at 18 GHz.  



Silly.  You can weatherproof an SMA just as easy as an N connector.  
Good heatshrink can be found for both.  

Folks trying to use N connectors at 18 GHz are going to quickly get 
introduced to the world of return 

Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

[George Skorup]

If they figure out how to put a waveguide interface on their 
interchangeable/reversible diplexer design, they may have something. But 
until then, it ain't waveguide, so I ain't buyin it. That simple.


On 7/1/2016 10:13 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
The connectors may very well be designed such they will work at that 
frequency, but the care that is taken when terminating cables with 
them and the quality of the cable is every bit as important.  UBNT 
ain’t exactly known for high end stuff.  (Sorry Chuck M).  I am sure 
that if it is critical to  the success of the  product, they will make 
it work.  But really, why waste time speculating.  Time will tell.

*From:* Josh Reynolds 
*Sent:* Friday, July 01, 2016 8:23 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

Let me clarify something, I'm not taking about comparing N to SMA, I'm 
talking about verifying these high quality N connectors are suitable 
for use in low to medium cost licensed backhaul links.


On Jul 1, 2016 9:12 PM, wrote:

I'm saying the same thing. Take the connector designed for it,
thrown your opinion in the trash, and post the results. Repeat the
test. Have someone else repeat the test. Scientific method.

On Jul 1, 2016 9:10 PM, "Chuck McCown" mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

Type N connectors are not in common use above 6 GHz.  Believe
me or not.
You wanna go above 6, there are plenty of other cheaper and
better connectors to use. N connector concentricity is not
inherent to the design of the connector.  And concentricity is
essential to good return loss.
You send me an N connector cable.  I will put it on a load and
connect it to a vector network analyzer with a smith chart on
the screen.   Will record video.  Then I will wiggle the cable
and back off the connector a bit you can see for  yourself the
dot (arc actually)  wander all over the place.  The higher the
frequency the more it becomes a wild line.
Then I will do the same for SMA and you can see for yourself
which one is more stable.   Opinions don’t matter.  A dot is a
dot, an arc is an arc and a squiggly line is a squiggly line.
*From:* Josh Reynolds 
*Sent:* Friday, July 01, 2016 7:53 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

So, nothing personal by this... but if the connector is
designed for it (and has several versions by other
manufacturers to boot), has been used (and is still used) on
testing equipment... I'm probably more inclined to take their
word for it over yours.

On Jul 1, 2016 7:58 PM, "Chuck McCown" mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

IMHO, 6 GHz is the upper limit.
*From:* Peter Kranz 
*Sent:* Friday, July 01, 2016 5:22 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

“Originally, the connector was designed to carry signals
at frequencies up to 1 GHz
 in military
applications, but today's common Type N easily handles
frequencies up to 11 GHz. More recent precision
enhancements to the design by Julius Botka at Hewlett
Packard 
have pushed this to 18 GHz.”

http://inmet.apitech.com/inmet/micro-inmet-between-typen.cfm

*Peter Kranz
*www.UnwiredLtd.com 
Desk: 510-868-1614  x100
Mobile: 510-207- 
pkr...@unwiredltd.com 

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Thursday, June 30, 2016 3:24 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

Yeah, I think this is a case of somebody bowing their neck
- a pissing contest between a boss and underlings at UBNT.

*From:*Eric Kuhnke 

*Sent:*Thursday, June 30, 2016 4:19 PM

*To:*af@afmug.com 

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

I have never in my life personally seen an N connector
rated above 11 GHz. High-quality/expensive N connectors
are used extensively in two way satellite - such as with
3.0 meter C-band Tx/Rx earth station dishes...  But you
only use N for the 50 ohm coax cables from the modem
   

Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

[Mathew Howard]

It seems to me that something along the lines of what the RF elements horn
antennas have could work...
On Jul 1, 2016 10:27 PM, "George Skorup"  wrote:

> If they figure out how to put a waveguide interface on their
> interchangeable/reversible diplexer design, they may have something. But
> until then, it ain't waveguide, so I ain't buyin it. That simple.
>
> On 7/1/2016 10:13 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> The connectors may very well be designed such they will work at that
> frequency, but the care that is taken when terminating cables with them and
> the quality of the cable is every bit as important.  UBNT ain’t exactly
> known for high end stuff.  (Sorry Chuck M).  I am sure that if it is
> critical to  the success of the  product, they will make it work.  But
> really, why waste time speculating.  Time will tell.
>
> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
> *Sent:* Friday, July 01, 2016 8:23 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N
>
>
> Let me clarify something, I'm not taking about comparing N to SMA, I'm
> talking about verifying these high quality N connectors are suitable for
> use in low to medium cost licensed backhaul links.
> On Jul 1, 2016 9:12 PM, wrote:
>
>> I'm saying the same thing. Take the connector designed for it, thrown
>> your opinion in the trash, and post the results. Repeat the test. Have
>> someone else repeat the test. Scientific method.
>> On Jul 1, 2016 9:10 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>
>>> Type N connectors are not in common use above 6 GHz.  Believe me or
>>> not.
>>>
>>> You wanna go above 6, there are plenty of other cheaper and better
>>> connectors to use.  N connector concentricity is not inherent to the design
>>> of the connector.  And concentricity is essential to good return loss.
>>>
>>> You send me an N connector cable.  I will put it on a load and connect
>>> it to a vector network analyzer with a smith chart on the screen.   Will
>>> record video.  Then I will wiggle the cable and back off the connector a
>>> bit you can see for  yourself the dot (arc actually)  wander all over the
>>> place.  The higher the frequency the more it becomes a wild line.
>>>
>>> Then I will do the same for SMA and you can see for yourself which one
>>> is more stable.   Opinions don’t matter.  A dot is a dot, an arc is an arc
>>> and a squiggly line is a squiggly line.
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
>>> *Sent:* Friday, July 01, 2016 7:53 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N
>>>
>>>
>>> So, nothing personal by this... but if the connector is designed for it
>>> (and has several versions by other manufacturers to boot), has been used
>>> (and is still used) on testing equipment... I'm probably more inclined to
>>> take their word for it over yours.
>>> On Jul 1, 2016 7:58 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>>
 IMHO, 6 GHz is the upper limit.

 *From:* Peter Kranz 
 *Sent:* Friday, July 01, 2016 5:22 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N


 “Originally, the connector was designed to carry signals at
 frequencies up to 1 GHz  in
 military applications, but today's common Type N easily handles frequencies
 up to 11 GHz. More recent precision enhancements to the design by Julius
 Botka at Hewlett Packard
  have pushed this to 18
 GHz.”



 http://inmet.apitech.com/inmet/micro-inmet-between-typen.cfm




 *Peter Kranz *www.UnwiredLtd.com 
 Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
 Mobile: 510-207-
 pkr...@unwiredltd.com



 *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
 *Sent:* Thursday, June 30, 2016 3:24 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N



 Yeah, I think this is a case of somebody bowing their neck - a pissing
 contest between a boss and underlings at UBNT.



 *From:* Eric Kuhnke 

 *Sent:* Thursday, June 30, 2016 4:19 PM

 *To:* af@afmug.com

 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N



 I have never in my life personally seen an N connector rated above 11
 GHz. High-quality/expensive N connectors are used extensively in two way
 satellite - such as with 3.0 meter C-band Tx/Rx earth station dishes...
 But you only use N for the 50 ohm coax cables from the modem (indoors) to
 the electronics which lives directly attached to the waveguide/feed on the
 dish (Rx LNB and Tx SSPA/BUC).

 The coax is used between 1.2 to 1.8 GHz to communicate with the Tx and
 Rx electronics on the dish. A satellite LNB on the Rx side is basically a
 10:1 ratio downconverter.

 Like so:
 http://beta.satcomresources.com/sca/images/NORS3120N_det

Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

[Eric Kuhnke]

IMHO it should be neither N or SMA or anything else, it should be direct to
waveguide... What is wrong with the mechanical robustness of mounting a
radio directly on a dish (cylindrical waveguide + 4 bolt REMEC)?  Or the
way a Dragonwave radio mounts with the four clips?



On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 7:41 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

> UBNT said that they went with N for its increased mechanical robustness
> and weatherproofing. Were they having issues with that at SMA?
>
> Why go cabled over waveguide at all anyway?
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, July 1, 2016 9:38:01 PM
>
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N
>
> Right, and so do the people you're talking about - keep it in mind they've
> already tested these.
>
> I brought up this exact issue by the way, when they (idiot customer) fuck
> up a connector and buy one from BillyBobs HAM shop and wonder why it
> doesn't work.
>
> I was told the cost on these was low, and they would be sold like any
> other connector or accessory. I mean, you DO buy spares for licensed
> backhaul, right?
>
> I was also told they are working on "other accessories" for this radio
> that will be some of the highest quality in the industry.
> On Jul 1, 2016 9:27 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
>> Here is  the thing, you buy a radio that has 11 or 18 GHz appearing on an
>> N connector.
>>
>> Then you purchase a cable from your favorite cable place.  Connect the
>> two and wonder why you are having problems.
>>
>> If  you get a cable that actually has connectors rated for the frequency
>> if they did not sweep it, there is  no guarantee it will work properly.
>> And if they did sweep it it is going to cost a ton.
>>
>> SMA is cheap, easy and always works at those frequencies.  N is only
>> cheap and easy below 6 GHz.
>> I am  not saying a connector that is rated for the frequency will  not do
>> the job, but the connector is just the first step.  If you do not use
>> extreme precision at 18 GHz then sweep the cable with the proper gear it is
>> going to have problems.  Things like terminations at 18 GHz are not even
>> trivial.  It is so hard to get a good 50 ohm termination for calibration
>> you generally use a sliding load.  (Actually, you are normally using
>> waveguide at 18 GHz.  )
>>
>> I do – do this for a living, you know...
>>
>> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
>> *Sent:* Friday, July 01, 2016 8:13 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N
>>
>>
>> I'm saying the same thing. Take the connector designed for it, thrown
>> your opinion in the trash, and post the results. Repeat the test. Have
>> someone else repeat the test. Scientific method.
>> On Jul 1, 2016 9:10 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>
>>> Type N connectors are not in common use above 6 GHz.  Believe me or
>>> not.
>>>
>>> You wanna go above 6, there are plenty of other cheaper and better
>>> connectors to use.  N connector concentricity is not inherent to the design
>>> of the connector.  And concentricity is essential to good return loss.
>>>
>>> You send me an N connector cable.  I will put it on a load and connect
>>> it to a vector network analyzer with a smith chart on the screen.   Will
>>> record video.  Then I will wiggle the cable and back off the connector a
>>> bit you can see for  yourself the dot (arc actually)  wander all over the
>>> place.  The higher the frequency the more it becomes a wild line.
>>>
>>> Then I will do the same for SMA and you can see for yourself which one
>>> is more stable.   Opinions don’t matter.  A dot is a dot, an arc is an arc
>>> and a squiggly line is a squiggly line.
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
>>> *Sent:* Friday, July 01, 2016 7:53 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N
>>>
>>>
>>> So, nothing personal by this... but if the connector is designed for it
>>> (and has several versions by other manufacturers to boot), has been used
>>> (and is still used) on testing equipment... I'm probably more inclined to
>>> take their word for it over yours.
>>> On Jul 1, 2016 7:58 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>>
 IMHO, 6 GHz is the upper limit.

 *From:* Peter Kranz 
 *Sent:* Friday, July 01, 2016 5:22 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert And

Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N

[Mathew Howard]

It wouldn't be disruptive :P

On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 11:18 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

> IMHO it should be neither N or SMA or anything else, it should be direct
> to waveguide... What is wrong with the mechanical robustness of mounting a
> radio directly on a dish (cylindrical waveguide + 4 bolt REMEC)?  Or the
> way a Dragonwave radio mounts with the four clips?
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 7:41 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> UBNT said that they went with N for its increased mechanical robustness
>> and weatherproofing. Were they having issues with that at SMA?
>>
>> Why go cabled over waveguide at all anyway?
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Friday, July 1, 2016 9:38:01 PM
>>
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N
>>
>> Right, and so do the people you're talking about - keep it in mind
>> they've already tested these.
>>
>> I brought up this exact issue by the way, when they (idiot customer) fuck
>> up a connector and buy one from BillyBobs HAM shop and wonder why it
>> doesn't work.
>>
>> I was told the cost on these was low, and they would be sold like any
>> other connector or accessory. I mean, you DO buy spares for licensed
>> backhaul, right?
>>
>> I was also told they are working on "other accessories" for this radio
>> that will be some of the highest quality in the industry.
>> On Jul 1, 2016 9:27 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>
>>> Here is  the thing, you buy a radio that has 11 or 18 GHz appearing on
>>> an N connector.
>>>
>>> Then you purchase a cable from your favorite cable place.  Connect the
>>> two and wonder why you are having problems.
>>>
>>> If  you get a cable that actually has connectors rated for the frequency
>>> if they did not sweep it, there is  no guarantee it will work properly.
>>> And if they did sweep it it is going to cost a ton.
>>>
>>> SMA is cheap, easy and always works at those frequencies.  N is only
>>> cheap and easy below 6 GHz.
>>> I am  not saying a connector that is rated for the frequency will  not
>>> do the job, but the connector is just the first step.  If you do not use
>>> extreme precision at 18 GHz then sweep the cable with the proper gear it is
>>> going to have problems.  Things like terminations at 18 GHz are not even
>>> trivial.  It is so hard to get a good 50 ohm termination for calibration
>>> you generally use a sliding load.  (Actually, you are normally using
>>> waveguide at 18 GHz.  )
>>>
>>> I do – do this for a living, you know...
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
>>> *Sent:* Friday, July 01, 2016 8:13 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm saying the same thing. Take the connector designed for it, thrown
>>> your opinion in the trash, and post the results. Repeat the test. Have
>>> someone else repeat the test. Scientific method.
>>> On Jul 1, 2016 9:10 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>>
 Type N connectors are not in common use above 6 GHz.  Believe me or
 not.

 You wanna go above 6, there are plenty of other cheaper and better
 connectors to use.  N connector concentricity is not inherent to the design
 of the connector.  And concentricity is essential to good return loss.

 You send me an N connector cable.  I will put it on a load and connect
 it to a vector network analyzer with a smith chart on the screen.   Will
 record video.  Then I will wiggle the cable and back off the connector a
 bit you can see for  yourself the dot (arc actually)  wander all over the
 place.  The higher the frequency the more it becomes a wild line.

 Then I will do the same for SMA and you can see for yourself which one
 is more stable.   Opinions don’t matter.  A dot is a dot, an arc is an arc
 and a squiggly line is a squiggly line.

 *From:* Josh Reynolds 
 *Sent:* Friday, July 01, 2016 7:53 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Convert Andrew Dragonwave dishes to N


 So, nothing personal by this... but if the connector is designed for it
 (and has several versions by other manufacturers to boot), has been used
 (and is still used) on testing equipment... I'm probably more inclined to
 take their word for it over yours.
 On Jul 1, 2016 7:58 P

Re: [AFMUG] Cogent

[Peter Kranz]

Cogent is great as long as you have another peer to balance out “issues”. They 
have a shitload of the internet as directly connected customers. 

 

-PK

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 6:44 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cogent

 

Location does make a big difference. I would in no way use them for a single 
upstream. For one, Cogent doesn't have the entire IPv6 Internet. They are great 
in a mix, especially if you have a route management platform or take only 
customer routes.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 




  _  

From: "Jason McKemie" mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> >
To: af@afmug.com  
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2016 5:52:04 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Cogent

Does anyone have experience with Cogent as a primary upstream? Good, bad, ugly? 
I assume the service location makes some difference as well.

 

-Jason