Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

[Jeremy]

Yeah, straying off-topic but our 6GHz link is actually a Trango that we own
and are moving around as we upgrade to higher capacity backhauls.

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 5:49 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:

> The older ubiquiti radios can be set to "compliance test" mode, and then
> you can use any channel that the chipset supports (not legally, obviously).
> On later firmware, they get rid of that option, and the new radios are
> locked to the US/Canada country code, so they're a lot harder to do
> blatantly illegal stuff with (unless you get the world wide version, which
> you aren't supposed to be able to buy in the US, but it's not hard to get
> one if you really want to). I don't think you can get too far into the 6ghz
> range with a normal Rocket, but they did (maybe still do... ) make an M6
> version for the Russian market...
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 5:35 PM, Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> I have picked Ubiquiti 6GHz links on a rocket I use for spectral analysis
>> that has 4900 to 6xxx ...I was given it when I replaced that Rocket with
>> Cambium EPMP  client was using ,5740 on Rocket...claims he did know why
>> it had all those channelsguess he felt guilty and gave it to
>> me...another tool in my bag...
>>
>> Jaime Solorza
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018, 10:58 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> Pop the cover on the AF5x, there is a tiny screwdriver adjustment marked
>>> “freq”.  Just tweak it up to 6 GHz and you are good to go.  Saves lots of
>>> money that way.  
>>>
>>> *From:* Jeremy
>>> *Sent:* Friday, June 8, 2018 10:23 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>>>
>>> I have an AF5X on 3' UBNT dishes (x-pol modified) that does 300x100 at
>>> 19 miles.  It is about to be swapped for 6GHz though.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 4:48 PM, Rory Conaway 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Mimosa B5c can pull 500Mbps to 1Gbps on that type of link depending on
 how much spectrum you want to use.



 Rory



 *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
 *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 2:32 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed



 Well, that explains everything.



 *From:* Chris Fabien

 *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 3:28 PM

 *To:* af@afmug.com

 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed



 3ft... Jirous on one side and one of the WB Optic on the other actually!



 On Wed, Jun 6, 2018, 5:17 PM  wrote:

 Wow, what size dishes?



 *From:* Chris Fabien

 *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 3:16 PM

 *To:* af@afmug.com

 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed



 Chuck we just did a 13 mile link using AF5XHD, getting about 350mbps in
 both directions using 60mhz and 50/50 ratio.



 On Jun 6, 2018 2:42 PM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:

 Yeah, if you go with 3' dishes you might be getting close to $1500 in
 cost, but that'll easily cover it with 2 footers.



 The only parts involved are going to be the dishes and the radios, so
 it's pretty simple to price... well, I suppose mounts and surge suppressors
 too, but I assume you know where to get those...





 On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:14 PM,  wrote:

 Thanks, that is what I am looking for.  Actually not sure yet what up
 down ratio the customer will be buying yet.



 If I tell the owners $1500 for parts then I should be good to go?



 *From:* Mathew Howard

 *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 11:47 AM

 *To:* af

 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed



 That's because airfibers use a fixed up/down ratio (75/25, in this
 case). If you needed 50/50, this link would only be get you somewhere
 around 140Mbps each way.

 Signal is just a little too low to get 8X (256qam) on this case, but I
 probably could if I changed them to the new HD version, since they can get
 a little higher power at any given modulation, and they can achieve higher
 modulations at lower signal levels... it might even be able to do 1024qam
 (it probably could with 3' dishes anyway). going to a 50mhz channel would
 also add some 20% capacity (50mhz is the max for the standard af-5x, but
 the hd can go up to 100mhz if you have lots of spectrum to burn).



 An entire link with 2' dishes should come to router around $1000. I
 haven't priced the 3' dishes recently, but they are quite a bit pricier.





 On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 11:21 AM,  wrote:

 Is the 65 Mbps a limitation of the link or system settings or ??



 *From:* Mathew Howard

 *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:16 AM

 *To:* af

 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed



 Here's an 

Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

[Mathew Howard]

The older ubiquiti radios can be set to "compliance test" mode, and then
you can use any channel that the chipset supports (not legally, obviously).
On later firmware, they get rid of that option, and the new radios are
locked to the US/Canada country code, so they're a lot harder to do
blatantly illegal stuff with (unless you get the world wide version, which
you aren't supposed to be able to buy in the US, but it's not hard to get
one if you really want to). I don't think you can get too far into the 6ghz
range with a normal Rocket, but they did (maybe still do... ) make an M6
version for the Russian market...


On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 5:35 PM, Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> I have picked Ubiquiti 6GHz links on a rocket I use for spectral analysis
> that has 4900 to 6xxx ...I was given it when I replaced that Rocket with
> Cambium EPMP  client was using ,5740 on Rocket...claims he did know why
> it had all those channelsguess he felt guilty and gave it to
> me...another tool in my bag...
>
> Jaime Solorza
>
> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018, 10:58 AM  wrote:
>
>> Pop the cover on the AF5x, there is a tiny screwdriver adjustment marked
>> “freq”.  Just tweak it up to 6 GHz and you are good to go.  Saves lots of
>> money that way.  
>>
>> *From:* Jeremy
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 8, 2018 10:23 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>>
>> I have an AF5X on 3' UBNT dishes (x-pol modified) that does 300x100 at 19
>> miles.  It is about to be swapped for 6GHz though.
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 4:48 PM, Rory Conaway 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Mimosa B5c can pull 500Mbps to 1Gbps on that type of link depending on
>>> how much spectrum you want to use.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Rory
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 2:32 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Well, that explains everything.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Chris Fabien
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 3:28 PM
>>>
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 3ft... Jirous on one side and one of the WB Optic on the other actually!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018, 5:17 PM  wrote:
>>>
>>> Wow, what size dishes?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Chris Fabien
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 3:16 PM
>>>
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Chuck we just did a 13 mile link using AF5XHD, getting about 350mbps in
>>> both directions using 60mhz and 50/50 ratio.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 6, 2018 2:42 PM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:
>>>
>>> Yeah, if you go with 3' dishes you might be getting close to $1500 in
>>> cost, but that'll easily cover it with 2 footers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The only parts involved are going to be the dishes and the radios, so
>>> it's pretty simple to price... well, I suppose mounts and surge suppressors
>>> too, but I assume you know where to get those...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:14 PM,  wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks, that is what I am looking for.  Actually not sure yet what up
>>> down ratio the customer will be buying yet.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If I tell the owners $1500 for parts then I should be good to go?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Mathew Howard
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 11:47 AM
>>>
>>> *To:* af
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That's because airfibers use a fixed up/down ratio (75/25, in this
>>> case). If you needed 50/50, this link would only be get you somewhere
>>> around 140Mbps each way.
>>>
>>> Signal is just a little too low to get 8X (256qam) on this case, but I
>>> probably could if I changed them to the new HD version, since they can get
>>> a little higher power at any given modulation, and they can achieve higher
>>> modulations at lower signal levels... it might even be able to do 1024qam
>>> (it probably could with 3' dishes anyway). going to a 50mhz channel would
>>> also add some 20% capacity (50mhz is the max for the standard af-5x, but
>>> the hd can go up to 100mhz if you have lots of spectrum to burn).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> An entire link with 2' dishes should come to router around $1000. I
>>> haven't priced the 3' dishes recently, but they are quite a bit pricier.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 11:21 AM,  wrote:
>>>
>>> Is the 65 Mbps a limitation of the link or system settings or ??
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Mathew Howard
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:16 AM
>>>
>>> *To:* af
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Here's an example of a 25km AF-5x link using 2' dishes. I'd probably use
>>> AF-5xHD radios these days, and I'd use the airFiber dishes (the only
>>> difference between them and the RocketDish LW is that they're slant vs H/V).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Error! Filename not specified.*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 12:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>
>>> W

Re: [AFMUG] this list

[Jaime Solorza]

Knobs, switches , buttons and levers!!

Jaime Solorza

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018, 11:01 AM  wrote:

> Not sure.  Since the domain has not transferred yet I cannot even get into
> the back end of the new list server.  Not sure how many knobs it has.
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Friday, June 8, 2018 10:44 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] this list
>
> if there is a mechanism to sign up manually, it might be best to share in
> the event it doesnt migrate well so the info is already out there
>
> out of curiousity, is the new list going to be publicly searchable like
> the aws list?
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 10:10 AM  wrote:
>
>> I should be able to automatically sign everyone up.  I have the list.  I
>> believe there is a bulk import.
>> It may send you a note asking you to verify.  I would hope it will.
>>
>> *From:* Carl Peterson
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 8, 2018 9:07 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] this list
>>
>> So before it dies, is there a process for us to sign up for the new
>> list?
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 10:55 AM,  wrote:
>>
>>> It is gonna die any day now.  I gave GoDaddy the magic Tucows key to
>>> steal it away from them.
>>>
>>> I have mailman hired to host.
>>>
>>> I keep checking on the status of the domain transfer and it just says
>>> “in process” or something like that.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Carl Peterson
>>
>> *PORT NETWORKS*
>>
>> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
>>
>> Baltimore, MD 21202
>>
>> (410) 637-3707
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

[Jaime Solorza]

I have picked Ubiquiti 6GHz links on a rocket I use for spectral analysis
that has 4900 to 6xxx ...I was given it when I replaced that Rocket with
Cambium EPMP  client was using ,5740 on Rocket...claims he did know why
it had all those channelsguess he felt guilty and gave it to
me...another tool in my bag...

Jaime Solorza

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018, 10:58 AM  wrote:

> Pop the cover on the AF5x, there is a tiny screwdriver adjustment marked
> “freq”.  Just tweak it up to 6 GHz and you are good to go.  Saves lots of
> money that way.  
>
> *From:* Jeremy
> *Sent:* Friday, June 8, 2018 10:23 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>
> I have an AF5X on 3' UBNT dishes (x-pol modified) that does 300x100 at 19
> miles.  It is about to be swapped for 6GHz though.
>
> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 4:48 PM, Rory Conaway 
> wrote:
>
>> Mimosa B5c can pull 500Mbps to 1Gbps on that type of link depending on
>> how much spectrum you want to use.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 2:32 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>>
>>
>>
>> Well, that explains everything.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Chris Fabien
>>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 3:28 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>>
>>
>>
>> 3ft... Jirous on one side and one of the WB Optic on the other actually!
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018, 5:17 PM  wrote:
>>
>> Wow, what size dishes?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Chris Fabien
>>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 3:16 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>>
>>
>>
>> Chuck we just did a 13 mile link using AF5XHD, getting about 350mbps in
>> both directions using 60mhz and 50/50 ratio.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 6, 2018 2:42 PM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:
>>
>> Yeah, if you go with 3' dishes you might be getting close to $1500 in
>> cost, but that'll easily cover it with 2 footers.
>>
>>
>>
>> The only parts involved are going to be the dishes and the radios, so
>> it's pretty simple to price... well, I suppose mounts and surge suppressors
>> too, but I assume you know where to get those...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:14 PM,  wrote:
>>
>> Thanks, that is what I am looking for.  Actually not sure yet what up
>> down ratio the customer will be buying yet.
>>
>>
>>
>> If I tell the owners $1500 for parts then I should be good to go?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Mathew Howard
>>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 11:47 AM
>>
>> *To:* af
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>>
>>
>>
>> That's because airfibers use a fixed up/down ratio (75/25, in this case).
>> If you needed 50/50, this link would only be get you somewhere around
>> 140Mbps each way.
>>
>> Signal is just a little too low to get 8X (256qam) on this case, but I
>> probably could if I changed them to the new HD version, since they can get
>> a little higher power at any given modulation, and they can achieve higher
>> modulations at lower signal levels... it might even be able to do 1024qam
>> (it probably could with 3' dishes anyway). going to a 50mhz channel would
>> also add some 20% capacity (50mhz is the max for the standard af-5x, but
>> the hd can go up to 100mhz if you have lots of spectrum to burn).
>>
>>
>>
>> An entire link with 2' dishes should come to router around $1000. I
>> haven't priced the 3' dishes recently, but they are quite a bit pricier.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 11:21 AM,  wrote:
>>
>> Is the 65 Mbps a limitation of the link or system settings or ??
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Mathew Howard
>>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:16 AM
>>
>> *To:* af
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>>
>>
>>
>> Here's an example of a 25km AF-5x link using 2' dishes. I'd probably use
>> AF-5xHD radios these days, and I'd use the airFiber dishes (the only
>> difference between them and the RocketDish LW is that they're slant vs H/V).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Error! Filename not specified.*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 12:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>> Which is better, Rocket 5AC + RocketDish LW
>>
>> or
>>
>> AF5X + AF-5G34-S45
>>
>>
>>
>> ?
>>
>>
>>
>> Or some other brand.  Hauling out PTP to a customer.  Like to keep the
>> bandwidth up but they are not currently asking for more than 100 Mbps.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 450M - Medusa groupings?

[castarritt]

Those MU-MIMO numbers look pretty weak.  The only one I've seen that bad on
our network turned out to be defective.  What does the VC sounding look
like under stats/radio?  Do you have a bunch of VCs that are un-tracked?

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 2:52 PM, Joe Novak  wrote:

> This doesn't tell you what group the users are apart of, more about how
> often you are able to group users on the downlink.
>
> https://community.cambiumnetworks.com/t5/PMP-450/450m-slot-grouping-help/
> td-p/71749
>
> 2nd post,
>
> " What the table shows is actually like a "histogram" of how many SMs are
> grouped together, not *which* group the SMs are in.  In your case, about
> 2/3 of the time there are 5 SMs, and 1/3 of the time 4 SMs are grouped
> together.  Occassionally, you get 6 together."
>
>
> Also see the follow up Matt shared: https://community.
> cambiumnetworks.com/t5/PMP-450/PMP450M-Grouping-Question/td-p/61580
>
>
> Joe
>
> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 2:47 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> Beyond the grouping, I would like to know the various azimuths so I know
>> how well or poorly we've aimed the Medusa.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 6/8/2018 12:41 PM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:
>>
>>
>> On the statistics, you can see the mummy groupings, so this means my
>> users are mostly in 2,3,4 elements of the MUMIMO sector? Is there a way to
>> physically know were most users are located within the sector?�
>>
>> �
>>
>> *Gino A. Villarini*
>> President
>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 450M - Medusa groupings?

[Joe Novak]

This doesn't tell you what group the users are apart of, more about how
often you are able to group users on the downlink.

https://community.cambiumnetworks.com/t5/PMP-450/450m-slot-grouping-help/td-p/71749

2nd post,

" What the table shows is actually like a "histogram" of how many SMs are
grouped together, not *which* group the SMs are in.  In your case, about
2/3 of the time there are 5 SMs, and 1/3 of the time 4 SMs are grouped
together.  Occassionally, you get 6 together."


Also see the follow up Matt shared:
https://community.cambiumnetworks.com/t5/PMP-450/PMP450M-Grouping-Question/td-p/61580


Joe

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 2:47 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:

> Beyond the grouping, I would like to know the various azimuths so I know
> how well or poorly we've aimed the Medusa.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 6/8/2018 12:41 PM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:
>
>
> On the statistics, you can see the mummy groupings, so this means my users
> are mostly in 2,3,4 elements of the MUMIMO sector? Is there a way to
> physically know were most users are located within the sector?�
>
> �
>
> *Gino A. Villarini*
> President
> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 450M - Medusa groupings?

[Bill Prince]

Beyond the grouping, I would like to know the various azimuths so I know 
how well or poorly we've aimed the Medusa.



bp


On 6/8/2018 12:41 PM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:


On the statistics, you can see the mummy groupings, so this means my 
users are mostly in 2,3,4 elements of the MUMIMO sector? Is there a 
way to physically know were most users are located within the sector?


*//*

*/Gino A. Villarini/*

President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[AFMUG] Fiber blowing y block

[Jon Langeler]

Any recommendations?

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.

[AFMUG] 450M - Medusa groupings?

[Gino A. Villarini]

On the statistics, you can see the mummy groupings, so this means my users are 
mostly in 2,3,4 elements of the MUMIMO sector? Is there a way to physically 
know were most users are located within the sector?

[cid:61A79637-3867-42F3-8E88-7EE2B8D9793D]



Gino A. Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?

[Paul Stewart]

I’ve done a lot of work with that model in the past and it works very well …. 
Extremely flexible what you can then do for multi-service handoff as well 😉

 

-p

 

From: Af  on behalf of Carl Peterson 

Reply-To: 
Date: Friday, June 8, 2018 at 1:52 PM
To: 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?

 

I've been thinking a lot about the flat -> routed transition lately and my 
current thinking is that we over reacted and just went to routers everywhere.  
We have been trimming back a lot and moving to running QinQ over VPLS where 
every sub has their own CVLAN in an SVLAN.  As I get more comfortable with it, 
I'm thinking about expanding it and dropping more of the "core" locations with 
routers.  Instead of A--B--C all with routers, we would drop the router at B 
and just run B with a primary and secondary VPLS circuit, say primary through A 
and secondary through C.  Saves a ton on enclosures, batteries etc.  

 

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 12:54 PM, Paul Stewart  wrote:

Can’t comment on “small iron” routers as limited experience but can tell you 
with larger gear (which in theory has a lot more CPU/processing capability) 
that large OSPF networks (100k routes) exist and work just fine.  One company I 
consulted for a number of years ago had over 600k routes in OSPF .. seriously … 
and yes they did experience some issues but they were not big enough issues to 
warrant changing til a few years later when they migrated everything to ISIS 
anyways.  That’s the most extreme example and not one I personally recommend 😉

 

As others have mentioned, it’s a hard question to answer as there is no “one 
size fits all” … often it’s more about how the network is designed then 
specific sizes of routes or numbers of routers… 

 

Paul

 

 

From: Af  on behalf of Eric Kuhnke 
Reply-To: 
Date: Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 6:06 PM
To: 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?

 

Also worth mentioning that a lot of OSPF documentation available on the 
Internet, makes assumptions that were valid in 2002 or so...  When a typical 
router had a lot less DRAM and CPU. Such as a Cisco 3725/3745 or even something 
smaller like a 2621. 

 

Probably still true if you're trying to do OSPF on very small Mikrotiks but not 
as much of a concern in the modern era. The main bottleneck in routing 
platforms is FIB size and RAM for BGP tables, not so much OSPF. 

 

 

 

On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 1:15 PM, Dennis Burgess  wrote:

This is a “unanswerable” question.  In honesty, you can have 20k routes in OSPF 
and it be responsive so the routing platform does not have a limit.  The number 
of routers, is another issue, if you have 500 routers all fiber connected and 
they don’t go up/down much, then no big deal, however, if they do go up down 
quite a bit or you don’t know how to manage them, then yes this can be a 
factor. The last thing is convergence time, if you have lots of fiber, and/or 
well connected routers, then that is not a major issue, break part of your 
network and see how long it takes for a reroute, if that is acceptable, then 
again no worries.

 

Now OSPF books, state that you should have no more than 75-100 routers, but I 
have read things that state no more than 50 and I have other networks that have 
more than 500. So..  Again, it’s not a good answerable question.  

 

However, my suggestion is to look at your network as a whole and see if there 
is some kind of logic, to splitting up your OSPF domains.  You can use OSPF 
areas, or you can use BGP between them.  But there needs to be a good, constant 
method to splitting your network like that.  Keep in mind that using defaults 
will cause traffic to shift, etc, so you need to plan plan plan…

 

Just my two cents.

 

 

 

Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer 

Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition” 

Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services 

Office: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net 

Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com 

 

From: Af  On Behalf Of Brough Turner
Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 1:41 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?

 

We're an urban WISP with a dense mesh of wireless links and a router per 
building. I am concerned that, without paying attention, we have grown to 600+ 
routers and ~2550 routes in one OSPF domain. This network has a diverse mix of 
routers from CCR1036s down to RB750UPs. We're not having any OSPF problems at 
this time and I have plenty of other things to worry about, but I'd hate to hit 
some limit and have the whole thing blow up.

Does anyone have experience (positive or negative) with large flat OSPF 
networks?
And, if you have had problems, what were the problems? 
Thanks,
Brough

Brough Turner
netBlazr Inc. – Free your Broadband!
Mobile:  617-285-0433   Skype:  brough
netBlazr Inc. | Google+ | Twitter | LinkedIn | Facebook | Blog | Personal 
website 

 

 



 

-- 

Carl Peterson

P

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

[Gino A. Villarini]

Make that a single radio with a “beeamforming” Omni, radio selects what beam 
subs are in…

From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on behalf of Matt 
Mangriotis 
mailto:matt.mangrio...@cambiumnetworks.com>>
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Date: Friday, June 8, 2018 at 2:17 PM
To: "af@afmug.com" mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

I certainly hoped you filled in the survey!  This is good stuff.

Thanks,
Matt

From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> On Behalf Of Carl 
Peterson
Sent: Friday, June 8, 2018 11:43 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

Because you have a few thousand 450 subs and don't wan't to have to stock your 
vans with something new.
Because you want to unload some of your sectors without re-installing 
customers, just a repoint.  Being able to move 20-30 subs off a sector to a 
micropop is huge.
Because you want consistency for your back office and support staff.
Because you need to pay a lineman to put it up on a pole above the Electrical 
space and don't want to touch it for 5-8 years. (I have no idea what ePMP 
reliability looks like but have had plenty FSK etc gear up for 10+ years)

For me, the perfect 450 micropop would be an omni 450M with Direct DC input, an 
SFP, a copper port, and an integrated GPS receiver.  1A 48V POE out would be 
nice too.  Something in the 1-1.5K price range to support 20-30 subs with a 
form factor like the A5-19.  I could power it and a Siklu with a two 48V runs 
up the pole, or just it with fiber and DC up the pole.





Gino A. Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 10:47 PM, George Skorup 
mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:
Ok, I guess I have to be the one to say this. Why would we want a 450-based 
micro-POP product when we have ePMP? Just askin'.
On 6/7/2018 10:29 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:
I would really like to get your opinions on this topicï¿1Ž2 would a 450 device 
like this help you in your network?
ï¿1Ž2
Nowï¿1Ž2s you chance to comment and help direct us!
ï¿1Ž2
Please fill out the short survey and add any other info youï¿1Ž2d like.ï¿1Ž2 
Itï¿1Ž2s only 16 questions.
ï¿1Ž2
Matt
ï¿1Ž2
From: Af  On Behalf Of Ray 
Savich
Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:08 AM
To: 'af@afmug.com' 
Subject [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
ï¿1Ž2
Add your input to the Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey.
https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP
ï¿1Ž2
ï¿1Ž2
Join the Conversation
Cambium Networks Community 
Forum
ï¿1Ž2




--

Carl Peterson

PORT NETWORKS

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

[Matt Mangriotis]

I certainly hoped you filled in the survey!  This is good stuff.

Thanks,
Matt

From: Af  On Behalf Of Carl Peterson
Sent: Friday, June 8, 2018 11:43 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

Because you have a few thousand 450 subs and don't wan't to have to stock your 
vans with something new.
Because you want to unload some of your sectors without re-installing 
customers, just a repoint.  Being able to move 20-30 subs off a sector to a 
micropop is huge.
Because you want consistency for your back office and support staff.
Because you need to pay a lineman to put it up on a pole above the Electrical 
space and don't want to touch it for 5-8 years. (I have no idea what ePMP 
reliability looks like but have had plenty FSK etc gear up for 10+ years)

For me, the perfect 450 micropop would be an omni 450M with Direct DC input, an 
SFP, a copper port, and an integrated GPS receiver.  1A 48V POE out would be 
nice too.  Something in the 1-1.5K price range to support 20-30 subs with a 
form factor like the A5-19.  I could power it and a Siklu with a two 48V runs 
up the pole, or just it with fiber and DC up the pole.


On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 10:47 PM, George Skorup 
mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:
Ok, I guess I have to be the one to say this. Why would we want a 450-based 
micro-POP product when we have ePMP? Just askin'.
On 6/7/2018 10:29 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:
I would really like to get your opinions on this topic� would a 450 device 
like this help you in your network?
�
Now�s you chance to comment and help direct us!
�
Please fill out the short survey and add any other info you�d like.� It�s 
only 16 questions.
�
Matt
�
From: Af  On Behalf Of Ray 
Savich
Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:08 AM
To: 'af@afmug.com' 
Subject [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
�
Add your input to the Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey.
https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP
�
�
Join the Conversation
Cambium Networks Community 
Forum
�




--

Carl Peterson

PORT NETWORKS

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707

Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?

[Carl Peterson]

I've been thinking a lot about the flat -> routed transition lately and my
current thinking is that we over reacted and just went to routers
everywhere.  We have been trimming back a lot and moving to running QinQ
over VPLS where every sub has their own CVLAN in an SVLAN.  As I get more
comfortable with it, I'm thinking about expanding it and dropping more of
the "core" locations with routers.  Instead of A--B--C all with routers, we
would drop the router at B and just run B with a primary and secondary VPLS
circuit, say primary through A and secondary through C.  Saves a ton on
enclosures, batteries etc.

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 12:54 PM, Paul Stewart  wrote:

> Can’t comment on “small iron” routers as limited experience but can tell
> you with larger gear (which in theory has a lot more CPU/processing
> capability) that large OSPF networks (100k routes) exist and work just
> fine.  One company I consulted for a number of years ago had over 600k
> routes in OSPF .. seriously … and yes they did experience some issues but
> they were not big enough issues to warrant changing til a few years later
> when they migrated everything to ISIS anyways.  That’s the most extreme
> example and not one I personally recommend 😉
>
>
>
> As others have mentioned, it’s a hard question to answer as there is no
> “one size fits all” … often it’s more about how the network is designed
> then specific sizes of routes or numbers of routers…
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Af  on behalf of Eric Kuhnke <
> eric.kuh...@gmail.com>
> *Reply-To: *
> *Date: *Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 6:06 PM
> *To: *
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?
>
>
>
> Also worth mentioning that a lot of OSPF documentation available on the
> Internet, makes assumptions that were valid in 2002 or so...  When a
> typical router had a lot less DRAM and CPU. Such as a Cisco 3725/3745 or
> even something smaller like a 2621.
>
>
>
> Probably still true if you're trying to do OSPF on very small Mikrotiks
> but not as much of a concern in the modern era. The main bottleneck in
> routing platforms is FIB size and RAM for BGP tables, not so much OSPF.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 1:15 PM, Dennis Burgess 
> wrote:
>
> This is a “unanswerable” question.  In honesty, you can have 20k routes in
> OSPF and it be responsive so the routing platform does not have a limit.
> The number of routers, is another issue, if you have 500 routers all fiber
> connected and they don’t go up/down much, then no big deal, however, if
> they do go up down quite a bit or you don’t know how to manage them, then
> yes this can be a factor. The last thing is convergence time, if you have
> lots of fiber, and/or well connected routers, then that is not a major
> issue, break part of your network and see how long it takes for a reroute,
> if that is acceptable, then again no worries.
>
>
>
> Now OSPF books, state that you should have no more than 75-100 routers,
> but I have read things that state no more than 50 and I have other networks
> that have more than 500. So..  Again, it’s not a good answerable question.
>
>
>
> However, my suggestion is to look at your network as a whole and see if
> there is some kind of logic, to splitting up your OSPF domains.  You can
> use OSPF areas, or you can use BGP between them.  But there needs to be a
> good, constant method to splitting your network like that.  Keep in mind
> that using defaults will cause traffic to shift, etc, so you need to plan
> plan plan…
>
>
>
> Just my two cents.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer *
>
> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
>
> *Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>
> *Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>
> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Af  *On Behalf Of *Brough Turner
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 7, 2018 1:41 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?
>
>
>
> We're an urban WISP with a dense mesh of wireless links and a router per
> building. I am concerned that, without paying attention, we have grown to
> 600+ routers and ~2550 routes in one OSPF domain. This network has a
> diverse mix of routers from CCR1036s down to RB750UPs. We're not having any
> OSPF problems at this time and I have plenty of other things to worry
> about, but I'd hate to hit some limit and have the whole thing blow up.
>
> Does anyone have experience (positive or negative) with large flat OSPF
> networks?
> And, if you have had problems, what were the problems?
>
> Thanks,
> Brough
>
> Brough Turner
> netBlazr Inc. – Free your Broadband!
> Mobile:  617-285-0433   Skype:  brough
> netBlazr Inc.  | Google+
>  | Twitter
>  | LinkedIn
>  | Facebook
>  | Bl

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

[Mathew Howard]

Not that much, in most cases. Canopy PTP450 in 900mhz can use a 20mhz
channel, and do 256qam, but most of the time you're lucky if it even works.
In ideal conditions, I guess it should be able to do 100Mbps or so, but
900mhz rarely works as well as one would hope.

We have a 1.7 mile PTP450 link feeding a micropop, and at present, a link
test is giving me about 40Mbps aggregate. On a good day it'll do better
than that, but when you're going through as many trees as we are there,
signal tends to be all over the place, even with 900mhz.

Personally, I don't see that much value in having backhaul and AP
integrated into the same unit. I'd rather just have an auxiliary PoE out
ethernet port on one or the other, so that you can easily mix and match
different frequencies, and so on.


On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 12:09 PM,  wrote:

> I wonder how much speed you could get from a 900 radio that uses the whole
> 20 MHz.  If that was the output of the micropop and you kept distances
> short and antenna gains up it would hammer through almost anything.  Say
> 512 QAM.  You could deliver 100 Mbps.  Of course you would be claiming a
> monopoly on the whole band.  Perhaps OFDM might be a better way to go.  Use
> the orthogon method to occupy as much as you can find.
>
> *From:* Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Friday, June 8, 2018 11:03 AM
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
>
> Yeah, "under the canopy" doesn't really happen around here, but getting
> into the middle of the trees does work in some cases... if we can get a
> point-to-point link working to one house in the middle of a subdivision,
> you can often get LOS to several other houses and  nLOS will sometimes even
> work with 5ghz at that kind of range.
>
> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 10:40 AM, Steve D  wrote:
>
>> And in bands outside of 5GHz as well.  I don't think there is such a
>> thing as "under the canopy" around here.  When you're in the trees, you're
>> in the trees.
>>
>> 900 in a lite configuration would be ideal for us.
>>
>> -Steve D
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 7:05 AM Matt  wrote:
>>
>>> Why not just make a PMP450i lite connectorized AP?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 8:19 AM, Matt Mangriotis
>>>  wrote:
>>> > Very good question George…
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I am trying to gauge interest.  Some folks would prefer that they are
>>> using
>>> > the same equipment throughout the network, and we don’t really have an
>>> > option right now for a lower priced (shorter range) but high throughput
>>> > extension of the network, but still a 450.  Same SMs, etc…
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Really wondering if many folks can’t complete a certain percentage of
>>> > installs due to obstructions (foliage) using 5 GHz, but could utilize
>>> an
>>> > “under the canopy” type of solution to light up a neighborhood.  Is
>>> that a
>>> > really common situation?  How common?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Any feedback is welcome, and I value your guys’ opinions (more than
>>> some
>>> > others)…
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Matt
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > From: Af  On Behalf Of George Skorup
>>> > Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 9:48 PM
>>> > To: af@afmug.com
>>> > Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Ok, I guess I have to be the one to say this. Why would we want a
>>> 450-based
>>> > micro-POP product when we have ePMP? Just askin'.
>>> >
>>> > On 6/7/2018 10:29 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:
>>> >
>>> > I would really like to get your opinions on this topic� would a 450
>>> device
>>> > like this help you in your network?
>>> >
>>> > �
>>> >
>>> > Now�s you chance to comment and help direct us!
>>> >
>>> > �
>>> >
>>> > Please fill out the short survey and add any other info you�d
>>> like.�
>>> > It�s only 16 questions.
>>> >
>>> > �
>>> >
>>> > Matt
>>> >
>>> > �
>>> >
>>> > From: Af  On Behalf Of Ray Savich
>>> > Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:08 AM
>>> > To: 'af@afmug.com' 
>>> > Subject [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
>>> >
>>> > �
>>> >
>>> > Add your input to the Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey.
>>> >
>>> > https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP
>>> >
>>> > �
>>> >
>>> > �
>>> >
>>> > Join the Conversation
>>> >
>>> > Cambium Networks Community Forum
>>> >
>>> > �
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

[chuck]

Oh, input on 900, yes.  
Get the guys in Devon to roll a PTP600 in a 900 MHz version.  

From: Brian Sullivan 
Sent: Friday, June 8, 2018 11:08 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

A neat product (which we couldn't use around here) would be a 5G 450 AP with 
900MHz OFDM PTP built in.  Although you would have to use all the available 
900Mhz spectrum to make it worthwhile.
Perhaps a nLOS 3.65 or LTE PTP combined with 450 AP would work in some areas.


On 6/8/2018 12:03 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:

  Yeah, "under the canopy" doesn't really happen around here, but getting into 
the middle of the trees does work in some cases... if we can get a 
point-to-point link working to one house in the middle of a subdivision, you 
can often get LOS to several other houses and  nLOS will sometimes even work 
with 5ghz at that kind of range.


  On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 10:40 AM, Steve D  wrote:

And in bands outside of 5GHz as well.  I don't think there is such a thing 
as "under the canopy" around here.  When you're in the trees, you're in the 
trees. 

900 in a lite configuration would be ideal for us.  

-Steve D

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 7:05 AM Matt  wrote:

  Why not just make a PMP450i lite connectorized AP?


  On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 8:19 AM, Matt Mangriotis
   wrote:

  > Very good question George…
  >
  >
  >
  > I am trying to gauge interest.  Some folks would prefer that they are 
using
  > the same equipment throughout the network, and we don’t really have an
  > option right now for a lower priced (shorter range) but high throughput
  > extension of the network, but still a 450.  Same SMs, etc…
  >
  >
  >
  > Really wondering if many folks can’t complete a certain percentage of
  > installs due to obstructions (foliage) using 5 GHz, but could utilize an
  > “under the canopy” type of solution to light up a neighborhood.  Is 
that a
  > really common situation?  How common?
  >
  >
  >
  > Any feedback is welcome, and I value your guys’ opinions (more than some
  > others)…
  >
  >
  >
  > Matt
  >
  >
  >
  > From: Af  On Behalf Of George Skorup
  > Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 9:48 PM
  > To: af@afmug.com
  > Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
  >
  >
  >
  > Ok, I guess I have to be the one to say this. Why would we want a 
450-based
  > micro-POP product when we have ePMP? Just askin'.
  >
  > On 6/7/2018 10:29 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:
  >
  > I would really like to get your opinions on this topic� would a 450 
device
  > like this help you in your network?
  >
  > �
  >
  > Now�s you chance to comment and help direct us!
  >
  > �
  >
  > Please fill out the short survey and add any other info you�d like.�
  > It�s only 16 questions.
  >
  > �
  >
  > Matt
  >
  > �
  >
  > From: Af  On Behalf Of Ray Savich
  > Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:08 AM
  > To: 'af@afmug.com' 
  > Subject [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
  >
  > �
  >
  > Add your input to the Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey.
  >
  > https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP
  >
  > �
  >
  > �
  >
  > Join the Conversation
  >
  > Cambium Networks Community Forum
  >
  > �
  >
  >

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

[chuck]

I wonder how much speed you could get from a 900 radio that uses the whole 20 
MHz.  If that was the output of the micropop and you kept distances short and 
antenna gains up it would hammer through almost anything.  Say 512 QAM.  You 
could deliver 100 Mbps.  Of course you would be claiming a monopoly on the 
whole band.  Perhaps OFDM might be a better way to go.  Use the orthogon method 
to occupy as much as you can find.  

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Friday, June 8, 2018 11:03 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

Yeah, "under the canopy" doesn't really happen around here, but getting into 
the middle of the trees does work in some cases... if we can get a 
point-to-point link working to one house in the middle of a subdivision, you 
can often get LOS to several other houses and  nLOS will sometimes even work 
with 5ghz at that kind of range.


On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 10:40 AM, Steve D  wrote:

  And in bands outside of 5GHz as well.  I don't think there is such a thing as 
"under the canopy" around here.  When you're in the trees, you're in the trees. 

  900 in a lite configuration would be ideal for us.  

  -Steve D

  On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 7:05 AM Matt  wrote:

Why not just make a PMP450i lite connectorized AP?


On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 8:19 AM, Matt Mangriotis
 wrote:

> Very good question George…
>
>
>
> I am trying to gauge interest.  Some folks would prefer that they are 
using
> the same equipment throughout the network, and we don’t really have an
> option right now for a lower priced (shorter range) but high throughput
> extension of the network, but still a 450.  Same SMs, etc…
>
>
>
> Really wondering if many folks can’t complete a certain percentage of
> installs due to obstructions (foliage) using 5 GHz, but could utilize an
> “under the canopy” type of solution to light up a neighborhood.  Is that a
> really common situation?  How common?
>
>
>
> Any feedback is welcome, and I value your guys’ opinions (more than some
> others)…
>
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> From: Af  On Behalf Of George Skorup
> Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 9:48 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
>
>
>
> Ok, I guess I have to be the one to say this. Why would we want a 
450-based
> micro-POP product when we have ePMP? Just askin'.
>
> On 6/7/2018 10:29 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:
>
> I would really like to get your opinions on this topic� would a 450 
device
> like this help you in your network?
>
> �
>
> Now�s you chance to comment and help direct us!
>
> �
>
> Please fill out the short survey and add any other info you�d like.�
> It�s only 16 questions.
>
> �
>
> Matt
>
> �
>
> From: Af  On Behalf Of Ray Savich
> Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:08 AM
> To: 'af@afmug.com' 
> Subject [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
>
> �
>
> Add your input to the Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey.
>
> https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP
>
> �
>
> �
>
> Join the Conversation
>
> Cambium Networks Community Forum
>
> �
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

[Brian Sullivan]

A neat product (which we couldn't use around here) would be a 5G 450 AP 
with 900MHz OFDM PTP built in.  Although you would have to use all the 
available 900Mhz spectrum to make it worthwhile.
Perhaps a nLOS 3.65 or LTE PTP combined with 450 AP would work in some 
areas.


On 6/8/2018 12:03 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
Yeah, "under the canopy" doesn't really happen around here, but 
getting into the middle of the trees does work in some cases... if we 
can get a point-to-point link working to one house in the middle of a 
subdivision, you can often get LOS to several other houses and  nLOS 
will sometimes even work with 5ghz at that kind of range.


On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 10:40 AM, Steve D > wrote:


And in bands outside of 5GHz as well.  I don't think there is such
a thing as "under the canopy" around here.  When you're in the
trees, you're in the trees.

900 in a lite configuration would be ideal for us.

-Steve D

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 7:05 AM Matt mailto:matt.mailingli...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Why not just make a PMP450i lite connectorized AP?


On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 8:19 AM, Matt Mangriotis
mailto:matt.mangrio...@cambiumnetworks.com>> wrote:
> Very good question George…
>
>
>
> I am trying to gauge interest.  Some folks would prefer that
they are using
> the same equipment throughout the network, and we don’t
really have an
> option right now for a lower priced (shorter range) but high
throughput
> extension of the network, but still a 450. Same SMs, etc…
>
>
>
> Really wondering if many folks can’t complete a certain
percentage of
> installs due to obstructions (foliage) using 5 GHz, but
could utilize an
> “under the canopy” type of solution to light up a
neighborhood.  Is that a
> really common situation?  How common?
>
>
>
> Any feedback is welcome, and I value your guys’ opinions
(more than some
> others)…
>
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> On Behalf Of George Skorup
> Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 9:48 PM
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP
survey
>
>
>
> Ok, I guess I have to be the one to say this. Why would we
want a 450-based
> micro-POP product when we have ePMP? Just askin'.
>
> On 6/7/2018 10:29 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:
>
> I would really like to get your opinions on this topic�
would a 450 device
> like this help you in your network?
>
> �
>
> Now�s you chance to comment and help direct us!
>
> �
>
> Please fill out the short survey and add any other info
you�d like.�
> It�s only 16 questions.
>
> �
>
> Matt
>
> �
>
> From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> On Behalf Of Ray Savich
> Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:08 AM
> To: 'af@afmug.com ' mailto:af@afmug.com>>
> Subject [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
>
> �
>
> Add your input to the Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey.
>
> https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP

>
> �
>
> �
>
> Join the Conversation
>
> Cambium Networks Community Forum
>
> �
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

[Mathew Howard]

Yeah, "under the canopy" doesn't really happen around here, but getting
into the middle of the trees does work in some cases... if we can get a
point-to-point link working to one house in the middle of a subdivision,
you can often get LOS to several other houses and  nLOS will sometimes even
work with 5ghz at that kind of range.

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 10:40 AM, Steve D  wrote:

> And in bands outside of 5GHz as well.  I don't think there is such a thing
> as "under the canopy" around here.  When you're in the trees, you're in the
> trees.
>
> 900 in a lite configuration would be ideal for us.
>
> -Steve D
>
> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 7:05 AM Matt  wrote:
>
>> Why not just make a PMP450i lite connectorized AP?
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 8:19 AM, Matt Mangriotis
>>  wrote:
>> > Very good question George…
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I am trying to gauge interest.  Some folks would prefer that they are
>> using
>> > the same equipment throughout the network, and we don’t really have an
>> > option right now for a lower priced (shorter range) but high throughput
>> > extension of the network, but still a 450.  Same SMs, etc…
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Really wondering if many folks can’t complete a certain percentage of
>> > installs due to obstructions (foliage) using 5 GHz, but could utilize an
>> > “under the canopy” type of solution to light up a neighborhood.  Is
>> that a
>> > really common situation?  How common?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Any feedback is welcome, and I value your guys’ opinions (more than some
>> > others)…
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Matt
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > From: Af  On Behalf Of George Skorup
>> > Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 9:48 PM
>> > To: af@afmug.com
>> > Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Ok, I guess I have to be the one to say this. Why would we want a
>> 450-based
>> > micro-POP product when we have ePMP? Just askin'.
>> >
>> > On 6/7/2018 10:29 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:
>> >
>> > I would really like to get your opinions on this topic� would a 450
>> device
>> > like this help you in your network?
>> >
>> > �
>> >
>> > Now�s you chance to comment and help direct us!
>> >
>> > �
>> >
>> > Please fill out the short survey and add any other info you�d like.�
>> > It�s only 16 questions.
>> >
>> > �
>> >
>> > Matt
>> >
>> > �
>> >
>> > From: Af  On Behalf Of Ray Savich
>> > Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:08 AM
>> > To: 'af@afmug.com' 
>> > Subject [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
>> >
>> > �
>> >
>> > Add your input to the Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey.
>> >
>> > https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP
>> >
>> > �
>> >
>> > �
>> >
>> > Join the Conversation
>> >
>> > Cambium Networks Community Forum
>> >
>> > �
>> >
>> >
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] this list

[chuck]

Not sure.  Since the domain has not transferred yet I cannot even get into the 
back end of the new list server.  Not sure how many knobs it has.  

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Friday, June 8, 2018 10:44 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] this list

if there is a mechanism to sign up manually, it might be best to share in the 
event it doesnt migrate well so the info is already out there 

out of curiousity, is the new list going to be publicly searchable like the aws 
list?




On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 10:10 AM  wrote:

  I should be able to automatically sign everyone up.  I have the list.  I 
believe there is a bulk import.  
  It may send you a note asking you to verify.  I would hope it will.  

  From: Carl Peterson 
  Sent: Friday, June 8, 2018 9:07 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] this list

  So before it dies, is there a process for us to sign up for the new list?  

  On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 10:55 AM,  wrote:

It is gonna die any day now.  I gave GoDaddy the magic Tucows key to steal 
it away from them.

I have mailman hired to host.  

I keep checking on the status of the domain transfer and it just says “in 
process” or something like that.  




  -- 

  Carl Peterson


  PORT NETWORKS

  401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

  Baltimore, MD 21202

  (410) 637-3707 

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

[chuck]

A 450 translator would be a cool device. 
5G in and some other frequency out.  

Essentially an SM and AP in one box.  

SM circuit for the backhaul, AP for the micropop.  Maintains timing etc.  

From: Carl Peterson 
Sent: Friday, June 8, 2018 10:43 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

Because you have a few thousand 450 subs and don't wan't to have to stock your 
vans with something new. 
Because you want to unload some of your sectors without re-installing 
customers, just a repoint.  Being able to move 20-30 subs off a sector to a 
micropop is huge. 

Because you want consistency for your back office and support staff.

Because you need to pay a lineman to put it up on a pole above the Electrical 
space and don't want to touch it for 5-8 years. (I have no idea what ePMP 
reliability looks like but have had plenty FSK etc gear up for 10+ years) 


For me, the perfect 450 micropop would be an omni 450M with Direct DC input, an 
SFP, a copper port, and an integrated GPS receiver.  1A 48V POE out would be 
nice too.  Something in the 1-1.5K price range to support 20-30 subs with a 
form factor like the A5-19.  I could power it and a Siklu with a two 48V runs 
up the pole, or just it with fiber and DC up the pole.  


On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 10:47 PM, George Skorup  wrote:

  Ok, I guess I have to be the one to say this. Why would we want a 450-based 
micro-POP product when we have ePMP? Just askin'.


  On 6/7/2018 10:29 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:

I would really like to get your opinions on this topic� would a 450 
device like this help you in your network?

�

Now�s you chance to comment and help direct us!

�

Please fill out the short survey and add any other info you�d like.� 
It�s only 16 questions.

�

Matt

�

From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com On Behalf Of Ray Savich
Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:08 AM
To: 'af@afmug.com' mailto:af@afmug.com
Subject [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

�

Add your input to the Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP 

�

�

Join the Conversation

Cambium Networks Community Forum

�







-- 

Carl Peterson


PORT NETWORKS

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707 

Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

[chuck]

Pop the cover on the AF5x, there is a tiny screwdriver adjustment marked 
“freq”.  Just tweak it up to 6 GHz and you are good to go.  Saves lots of money 
that way.  

From: Jeremy 
Sent: Friday, June 8, 2018 10:23 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

I have an AF5X on 3' UBNT dishes (x-pol modified) that does 300x100 at 19 
miles.  It is about to be swapped for 6GHz though.

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 4:48 PM, Rory Conaway  wrote:

  Mimosa B5c can pull 500Mbps to 1Gbps on that type of link depending on how 
much spectrum you want to use.



  Rory 



  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
  Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 2:32 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed



  Well, that explains everything.



  From: Chris Fabien 

  Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 3:28 PM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed



  3ft... Jirous on one side and one of the WB Optic on the other actually!



  On Wed, Jun 6, 2018, 5:17 PM  wrote:

Wow, what size dishes?



From: Chris Fabien 

Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 3:16 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed



Chuck we just did a 13 mile link using AF5XHD, getting about 350mbps in 
both directions using 60mhz and 50/50 ratio. 



On Jun 6, 2018 2:42 PM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:

Yeah, if you go with 3' dishes you might be getting close to $1500 in cost, 
but that'll easily cover it with 2 footers.



The only parts involved are going to be the dishes and the radios, so it's 
pretty simple to price... well, I suppose mounts and surge suppressors too, but 
I assume you know where to get those...





On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:14 PM,  wrote:

Thanks, that is what I am looking for.  Actually not sure yet what up down 
ratio the customer will be buying yet.  



If I tell the owners $1500 for parts then I should be good to go?



From: Mathew Howard 

Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 11:47 AM

To: af 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed



That's because airfibers use a fixed up/down ratio (75/25, in this case). 
If you needed 50/50, this link would only be get you somewhere around 140Mbps 
each way.

Signal is just a little too low to get 8X (256qam) on this case, but I 
probably could if I changed them to the new HD version, since they can get a 
little higher power at any given modulation, and they can achieve higher 
modulations at lower signal levels... it might even be able to do 1024qam (it 
probably could with 3' dishes anyway). going to a 50mhz channel would also add 
some 20% capacity (50mhz is the max for the standard af-5x, but the hd can go 
up to 100mhz if you have lots of spectrum to burn).



An entire link with 2' dishes should come to router around $1000. I haven't 
priced the 3' dishes recently, but they are quite a bit pricier.





On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 11:21 AM,  wrote:

  Is the 65 Mbps a limitation of the link or system settings or ??



  From: Mathew Howard 

  Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:16 AM

  To: af 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed



  Here's an example of a 25km AF-5x link using 2' dishes. I'd probably use 
AF-5xHD radios these days, and I'd use the airFiber dishes (the only difference 
between them and the RocketDish LW is that they're slant vs H/V).





  Error! Filename not specified.









  On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 12:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Which is better, Rocket 5AC + RocketDish LW

or

AF5X + AF-5G34-S45



?



Or some other brand.  Hauling out PTP to a customer.  Like to keep the 
bandwidth up but they are not currently asking for more than 100 Mbps.  

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

[Jay Weekley]

I added up around 15 different models of radios that we may run into 
during a day.  The van gets crowded.


Colin Stanners wrote:
In our company we have 900FSK, 2.4FSK, 2.4 450, 3.65 WiMAX, 3.65 450, 
5ghz 430 and 5ghz 450 SMs... really trying to minimize the number of 
radio models but there isn't much that you can do due to history, 
existing customer base, cost of upgrades and interference/trees in 
different areas. At least everything that isn't 900mhz / WiMAX works 
on the same reflector dishes, that is a lifesaver.


We absolutely can't start adding ePMP radios in the mix, as in 
addition to van space / stocking requirements it has a different GUI / 
SNMP / standards which would require re-training everyone (there's a 
lot of "cabling" guys who aren't whizzes with that) and ePMP doesn't 
seem to work too well on dishes due to the multi-element panel antennas.


On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 9:47 PM, George Skorup 
mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:


Ok, I guess I have to be the one to say this. Why would we want a
450-based micro-POP product when we have ePMP? Just askin'.

On 6/7/2018 10:29 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:


I would really like to get your opinions on this topic� would a
450 device like this help you in your network?

�

Now�s you chance to comment and help direct us!

�

Please fill out the short survey and add any other info you�d
like.� It�s only 16 questions.

�

Matt

�

*From:* Af  
*On Behalf Of *Ray Savich
*Sent:* Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:08 AM
*To:* 'af@afmug.com ' 

*Subject* [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

�

Add your input to the Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP




�

�

Join the Conversation

Cambium Networks Community Forum



�





 
	Virus-free. www.avg.com 
 



<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>


--
*Jay Weekley*
*Cyber Broadband
*

Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?

[Paul Stewart]

Can’t comment on “small iron” routers as limited experience but can tell you 
with larger gear (which in theory has a lot more CPU/processing capability) 
that large OSPF networks (100k routes) exist and work just fine.  One company I 
consulted for a number of years ago had over 600k routes in OSPF .. seriously … 
and yes they did experience some issues but they were not big enough issues to 
warrant changing til a few years later when they migrated everything to ISIS 
anyways.  That’s the most extreme example and not one I personally recommend 😉

 

As others have mentioned, it’s a hard question to answer as there is no “one 
size fits all” … often it’s more about how the network is designed then 
specific sizes of routes or numbers of routers… 

 

Paul

 

 

From: Af  on behalf of Eric Kuhnke 
Reply-To: 
Date: Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 6:06 PM
To: 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?

 

Also worth mentioning that a lot of OSPF documentation available on the 
Internet, makes assumptions that were valid in 2002 or so...  When a typical 
router had a lot less DRAM and CPU. Such as a Cisco 3725/3745 or even something 
smaller like a 2621. 

 

Probably still true if you're trying to do OSPF on very small Mikrotiks but not 
as much of a concern in the modern era. The main bottleneck in routing 
platforms is FIB size and RAM for BGP tables, not so much OSPF. 

 

 

 

On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 1:15 PM, Dennis Burgess  wrote:

This is a “unanswerable” question.  In honesty, you can have 20k routes in OSPF 
and it be responsive so the routing platform does not have a limit.  The number 
of routers, is another issue, if you have 500 routers all fiber connected and 
they don’t go up/down much, then no big deal, however, if they do go up down 
quite a bit or you don’t know how to manage them, then yes this can be a 
factor. The last thing is convergence time, if you have lots of fiber, and/or 
well connected routers, then that is not a major issue, break part of your 
network and see how long it takes for a reroute, if that is acceptable, then 
again no worries.

 

Now OSPF books, state that you should have no more than 75-100 routers, but I 
have read things that state no more than 50 and I have other networks that have 
more than 500. So..  Again, it’s not a good answerable question.  

 

However, my suggestion is to look at your network as a whole and see if there 
is some kind of logic, to splitting up your OSPF domains.  You can use OSPF 
areas, or you can use BGP between them.  But there needs to be a good, constant 
method to splitting your network like that.  Keep in mind that using defaults 
will cause traffic to shift, etc, so you need to plan plan plan…

 

Just my two cents.

 

 

 

Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer 

Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition” 

Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services 

Office: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net 

Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com 

 

From: Af  On Behalf Of Brough Turner
Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 1:41 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?

 

We're an urban WISP with a dense mesh of wireless links and a router per 
building. I am concerned that, without paying attention, we have grown to 600+ 
routers and ~2550 routes in one OSPF domain. This network has a diverse mix of 
routers from CCR1036s down to RB750UPs. We're not having any OSPF problems at 
this time and I have plenty of other things to worry about, but I'd hate to hit 
some limit and have the whole thing blow up.

Does anyone have experience (positive or negative) with large flat OSPF 
networks?
And, if you have had problems, what were the problems? 
Thanks,
Brough

Brough Turner
netBlazr Inc. – Free your Broadband!
Mobile:  617-285-0433   Skype:  brough
netBlazr Inc. | Google+ | Twitter | LinkedIn | Facebook | Blog | Personal 
website 

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] this list

[Steve Jones]

if there is a mechanism to sign up manually, it might be best to share in
the event it doesnt migrate well so the info is already out there

out of curiousity, is the new list going to be publicly searchable like the
aws list?



On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 10:10 AM  wrote:

> I should be able to automatically sign everyone up.  I have the list.  I
> believe there is a bulk import.
> It may send you a note asking you to verify.  I would hope it will.
>
> *From:* Carl Peterson
> *Sent:* Friday, June 8, 2018 9:07 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] this list
>
> So before it dies, is there a process for us to sign up for the new list?
>
> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 10:55 AM,  wrote:
>
>> It is gonna die any day now.  I gave GoDaddy the magic Tucows key to
>> steal it away from them.
>>
>> I have mailman hired to host.
>>
>> I keep checking on the status of the domain transfer and it just says “in
>> process” or something like that.
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Carl Peterson
>
> *PORT NETWORKS*
>
> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
>
> Baltimore, MD 21202
>
> (410) 637-3707
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

[Carl Peterson]

Because you have a few thousand 450 subs and don't wan't to have to stock
your vans with something new.
Because you want to unload some of your sectors without re-installing
customers, just a repoint.  Being able to move 20-30 subs off a sector to a
micropop is huge.
Because you want consistency for your back office and support staff.
Because you need to pay a lineman to put it up on a pole above the
Electrical space and don't want to touch it for 5-8 years. (I have no idea
what ePMP reliability looks like but have had plenty FSK etc gear up for
10+ years)

For me, the perfect 450 micropop would be an omni 450M with Direct DC
input, an SFP, a copper port, and an integrated GPS receiver.  1A 48V POE
out would be nice too.  Something in the 1-1.5K price range to support
20-30 subs with a form factor like the A5-19.  I could power it and a Siklu
with a two 48V runs up the pole, or just it with fiber and DC up the pole.


On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 10:47 PM, George Skorup 
wrote:

> Ok, I guess I have to be the one to say this. Why would we want a
> 450-based micro-POP product when we have ePMP? Just askin'.
>
> On 6/7/2018 10:29 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:
>
> I would really like to get your opinions on this topic� would a 450
> device like this help you in your network?
>
> �
>
> Now�s you chance to comment and help direct us!
>
> �
>
> Please fill out the short survey and add any other info you�d like.�
> It�s only 16 questions.
>
> �
>
> Matt
>
> �
>
> *From:* Af   *On Behalf Of *Ray
> Savich
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:08 AM
> *To:* 'af@afmug.com'  
> *Subject* [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
>
> �
>
> Add your input to the Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey.
>
> https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP
> 
>
> �
>
> �
>
> Join the Conversation
>
> Cambium Networks Community Forum
> 
>
> �
>
>
>


-- 

Carl Peterson

*PORT NETWORKS*

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707

[AFMUG] EPMP Force 200, Buy only the Radio

[Nate Burke]

We're getting enough F200 radios in the air now that we are starting to 
have some failures, mostly storm related.  We just change the radio 
unit, since alignment is all done.  So I'm ending up with all these F200 
dish parts sitting on the shelf that have no use.  Is anyone selling 
just the F200 radio unit?

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

[Dave]

Have you seen the Force 200 radios :)
Our guys love em for our 2 little micro-pops using epmp1000 sectors
Fixing to have to look at higher capacity at one of the micropops


On 06/08/2018 11:22 AM, Colin Stanners wrote:
In our company we have 900FSK, 2.4FSK, 2.4 450, 3.65 WiMAX, 3.65 450, 
5ghz 430 and 5ghz 450 SMs... really trying to minimize the number of 
radio models but there isn't much that you can do due to history, 
existing customer base, cost of upgrades and interference/trees in 
different areas. At least everything that isn't 900mhz / WiMAX works 
on the same reflector dishes, that is a lifesaver.


We absolutely can't start adding ePMP radios in the mix, as in 
addition to van space / stocking requirements it has a different GUI / 
SNMP / standards which would require re-training everyone (there's a 
lot of "cabling" guys who aren't whizzes with that) and ePMP doesn't 
seem to work too well on dishes due to the multi-element panel antennas.


On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 9:47 PM, George Skorup 
mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:


Ok, I guess I have to be the one to say this. Why would we want a
450-based micro-POP product when we have ePMP? Just askin'.

On 6/7/2018 10:29 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:


I would really like to get your opinions on this topic� would a
450 device like this help you in your network?

�

Now�s you chance to comment and help direct us!

�

Please fill out the short survey and add any other info you�d
like.� It�s only 16 questions.

�

Matt

�

*From:* Af  
*On Behalf Of *Ray Savich
*Sent:* Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:08 AM
*To:* 'af@afmug.com ' 

*Subject* [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

�

Add your input to the Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP




�

�

Join the Conversation

Cambium Networks Community Forum



�






--

Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

[Jeremy]

I have an AF5X on 3' UBNT dishes (x-pol modified) that does 300x100 at 19
miles.  It is about to be swapped for 6GHz though.

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 4:48 PM, Rory Conaway  wrote:

> Mimosa B5c can pull 500Mbps to 1Gbps on that type of link depending on how
> much spectrum you want to use.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 2:32 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>
>
>
> Well, that explains everything.
>
>
>
> *From:* Chris Fabien
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 3:28 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>
>
>
> 3ft... Jirous on one side and one of the WB Optic on the other actually!
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018, 5:17 PM  wrote:
>
> Wow, what size dishes?
>
>
>
> *From:* Chris Fabien
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 3:16 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>
>
>
> Chuck we just did a 13 mile link using AF5XHD, getting about 350mbps in
> both directions using 60mhz and 50/50 ratio.
>
>
>
> On Jun 6, 2018 2:42 PM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:
>
> Yeah, if you go with 3' dishes you might be getting close to $1500 in
> cost, but that'll easily cover it with 2 footers.
>
>
>
> The only parts involved are going to be the dishes and the radios, so it's
> pretty simple to price... well, I suppose mounts and surge suppressors too,
> but I assume you know where to get those...
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:14 PM,  wrote:
>
> Thanks, that is what I am looking for.  Actually not sure yet what up down
> ratio the customer will be buying yet.
>
>
>
> If I tell the owners $1500 for parts then I should be good to go?
>
>
>
> *From:* Mathew Howard
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 11:47 AM
>
> *To:* af
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>
>
>
> That's because airfibers use a fixed up/down ratio (75/25, in this case).
> If you needed 50/50, this link would only be get you somewhere around
> 140Mbps each way.
>
> Signal is just a little too low to get 8X (256qam) on this case, but I
> probably could if I changed them to the new HD version, since they can get
> a little higher power at any given modulation, and they can achieve higher
> modulations at lower signal levels... it might even be able to do 1024qam
> (it probably could with 3' dishes anyway). going to a 50mhz channel would
> also add some 20% capacity (50mhz is the max for the standard af-5x, but
> the hd can go up to 100mhz if you have lots of spectrum to burn).
>
>
>
> An entire link with 2' dishes should come to router around $1000. I
> haven't priced the 3' dishes recently, but they are quite a bit pricier.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 11:21 AM,  wrote:
>
> Is the 65 Mbps a limitation of the link or system settings or ??
>
>
>
> *From:* Mathew Howard
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:16 AM
>
> *To:* af
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>
>
>
> Here's an example of a 25km AF-5x link using 2' dishes. I'd probably use
> AF-5xHD radios these days, and I'd use the airFiber dishes (the only
> difference between them and the RocketDish LW is that they're slant vs H/V).
>
>
>
>
>
> *Error! Filename not specified.*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 12:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> Which is better, Rocket 5AC + RocketDish LW
>
> or
>
> AF5X + AF-5G34-S45
>
>
>
> ?
>
>
>
> Or some other brand.  Hauling out PTP to a customer.  Like to keep the
> bandwidth up but they are not currently asking for more than 100 Mbps.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

[Colin Stanners]

In our company we have 900FSK, 2.4FSK, 2.4 450, 3.65 WiMAX, 3.65 450, 5ghz
430 and 5ghz 450 SMs... really trying to minimize the number of radio
models but there isn't much that you can do due to history, existing
customer base, cost of upgrades and interference/trees in different areas.
At least everything that isn't 900mhz / WiMAX works on the same reflector
dishes, that is a lifesaver.

We absolutely can't start adding ePMP radios in the mix, as in addition to
van space / stocking requirements it has a different GUI / SNMP / standards
which would require re-training everyone (there's a lot of "cabling" guys
who aren't whizzes with that) and ePMP doesn't seem to work too well on
dishes due to the multi-element panel antennas.

On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 9:47 PM, George Skorup 
wrote:

> Ok, I guess I have to be the one to say this. Why would we want a
> 450-based micro-POP product when we have ePMP? Just askin'.
>
> On 6/7/2018 10:29 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:
>
> I would really like to get your opinions on this topic� would a 450
> device like this help you in your network?
>
> �
>
> Now�s you chance to comment and help direct us!
>
> �
>
> Please fill out the short survey and add any other info you�d like.�
> It�s only 16 questions.
>
> �
>
> Matt
>
> �
>
> *From:* Af   *On Behalf Of *Ray
> Savich
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:08 AM
> *To:* 'af@afmug.com'  
> *Subject* [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
>
> �
>
> Add your input to the Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey.
>
> https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP
> 
>
> �
>
> �
>
> Join the Conversation
>
> Cambium Networks Community Forum
> 
>
> �
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

[Steve D]

And in bands outside of 5GHz as well.  I don't think there is such a thing
as "under the canopy" around here.  When you're in the trees, you're in the
trees.

900 in a lite configuration would be ideal for us.

-Steve D

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 7:05 AM Matt  wrote:

> Why not just make a PMP450i lite connectorized AP?
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 8:19 AM, Matt Mangriotis
>  wrote:
> > Very good question George…
> >
> >
> >
> > I am trying to gauge interest.  Some folks would prefer that they are
> using
> > the same equipment throughout the network, and we don’t really have an
> > option right now for a lower priced (shorter range) but high throughput
> > extension of the network, but still a 450.  Same SMs, etc…
> >
> >
> >
> > Really wondering if many folks can’t complete a certain percentage of
> > installs due to obstructions (foliage) using 5 GHz, but could utilize an
> > “under the canopy” type of solution to light up a neighborhood.  Is that
> a
> > really common situation?  How common?
> >
> >
> >
> > Any feedback is welcome, and I value your guys’ opinions (more than some
> > others)…
> >
> >
> >
> > Matt
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Af  On Behalf Of George Skorup
> > Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 9:48 PM
> > To: af@afmug.com
> > Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
> >
> >
> >
> > Ok, I guess I have to be the one to say this. Why would we want a
> 450-based
> > micro-POP product when we have ePMP? Just askin'.
> >
> > On 6/7/2018 10:29 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:
> >
> > I would really like to get your opinions on this topic� would a 450
> device
> > like this help you in your network?
> >
> > �
> >
> > Now�s you chance to comment and help direct us!
> >
> > �
> >
> > Please fill out the short survey and add any other info you�d like.�
> > It�s only 16 questions.
> >
> > �
> >
> > Matt
> >
> > �
> >
> > From: Af  On Behalf Of Ray Savich
> > Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:08 AM
> > To: 'af@afmug.com' 
> > Subject [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
> >
> > �
> >
> > Add your input to the Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey.
> >
> > https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP
> >
> > �
> >
> > �
> >
> > Join the Conversation
> >
> > Cambium Networks Community Forum
> >
> > �
> >
> >
>

Re: [AFMUG] this list

[chuck]

I should be able to automatically sign everyone up.  I have the list.  I 
believe there is a bulk import.  
It may send you a note asking you to verify.  I would hope it will.  

From: Carl Peterson 
Sent: Friday, June 8, 2018 9:07 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] this list

So before it dies, is there a process for us to sign up for the new list?  

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 10:55 AM,  wrote:

  It is gonna die any day now.  I gave GoDaddy the magic Tucows key to steal it 
away from them.

  I have mailman hired to host.  

  I keep checking on the status of the domain transfer and it just says “in 
process” or something like that.  




-- 

Carl Peterson


PORT NETWORKS

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707 

Re: [AFMUG] this list

[Carl Peterson]

So before it dies, is there a process for us to sign up for the new list?

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 10:55 AM,  wrote:

> It is gonna die any day now.  I gave GoDaddy the magic Tucows key to steal
> it away from them.
>
> I have mailman hired to host.
>
> I keep checking on the status of the domain transfer and it just says “in
> process” or something like that.
>



-- 

Carl Peterson

*PORT NETWORKS*

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707

[AFMUG] this list

[chuck]

It is gonna die any day now.  I gave GoDaddy the magic Tucows key to steal it 
away from them.

I have mailman hired to host.  

I keep checking on the status of the domain transfer and it just says “in 
process” or something like that.  

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

[Matt]

Why not just make a PMP450i lite connectorized AP?


On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 8:19 AM, Matt Mangriotis
 wrote:
> Very good question George…
>
>
>
> I am trying to gauge interest.  Some folks would prefer that they are using
> the same equipment throughout the network, and we don’t really have an
> option right now for a lower priced (shorter range) but high throughput
> extension of the network, but still a 450.  Same SMs, etc…
>
>
>
> Really wondering if many folks can’t complete a certain percentage of
> installs due to obstructions (foliage) using 5 GHz, but could utilize an
> “under the canopy” type of solution to light up a neighborhood.  Is that a
> really common situation?  How common?
>
>
>
> Any feedback is welcome, and I value your guys’ opinions (more than some
> others)…
>
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> From: Af  On Behalf Of George Skorup
> Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 9:48 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
>
>
>
> Ok, I guess I have to be the one to say this. Why would we want a 450-based
> micro-POP product when we have ePMP? Just askin'.
>
> On 6/7/2018 10:29 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:
>
> I would really like to get your opinions on this topic� would a 450 device
> like this help you in your network?
>
> �
>
> Now�s you chance to comment and help direct us!
>
> �
>
> Please fill out the short survey and add any other info you�d like.�
> It�s only 16 questions.
>
> �
>
> Matt
>
> �
>
> From: Af  On Behalf Of Ray Savich
> Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:08 AM
> To: 'af@afmug.com' 
> Subject [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
>
> �
>
> Add your input to the Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey.
>
> https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP
>
> �
>
> �
>
> Join the Conversation
>
> Cambium Networks Community Forum
>
> �
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

[Mathew Howard]

Yes, it is very common to not able to complete an install with 5ghz because
of foliage, and we have done exactly that in several areas (using ePMP, in
our case).

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 8:19 AM, Matt Mangriotis <
matt.mangrio...@cambiumnetworks.com> wrote:

> Very good question George…
>
>
>
> I am trying to gauge interest.  Some folks would prefer that they are
> using the same equipment throughout the network, and we don’t really have
> an option right now for a lower priced (shorter range) but high throughput
> extension of the network, but still a 450.  Same SMs, etc…
>
>
>
> Really wondering if many folks can’t complete a certain percentage of
> installs due to obstructions (foliage) using 5 GHz, but could utilize an
> “under the canopy” type of solution to light up a neighborhood.  Is that a
> really common situation?  How common?
>
>
>
> Any feedback is welcome, and I value your guys’ opinions (more than some
> others)…
>
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> *From:* Af  *On Behalf Of *George Skorup
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 7, 2018 9:48 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
>
>
>
> Ok, I guess I have to be the one to say this. Why would we want a
> 450-based micro-POP product when we have ePMP? Just askin'.
>
> On 6/7/2018 10:29 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:
>
> I would really like to get your opinions on this topic� would a 450
> device like this help you in your network?
>
> �
>
> Now�s you chance to comment and help direct us!
>
> �
>
> Please fill out the short survey and add any other info you�d like.�
> It�s only 16 questions.
>
> �
>
> Matt
>
> �
>
> *From:* Af   *On Behalf Of *Ray
> Savich
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:08 AM
> *To:* 'af@afmug.com'  
> *Subject* [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
>
> �
>
> Add your input to the Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey.
>
> https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP
> 
>
> �
>
> �
>
> Join the Conversation
>
> Cambium Networks Community Forum
> 
>
> �
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

[Faisal Imtiaz]

Simple reason.. 

The need to deliver Next Gen level of Internet Service BW. 
(50meg/100meg/150meg/200meg/300meg + ) on a per client basis. 

:) 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
http://www.snappytelecom.net 

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "George Skorup" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:47:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

> Ok, I guess I have to be the one to say this. Why would we want a 450-based
> micro-POP product when we have ePMP? Just askin'.

> On 6/7/2018 10:29 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:

>> I would really like to get your opinions on this topic� would a 450 device
>> like this help you in your network?

>> �

>> Now�s you chance to comment and help direct us!

>> �

>> Please fill out the short survey and add any other info you�d like.� 
>> It�s
>> only 16 questions.

>> �

>> Matt

>> �

>> From: Af  On Behalf Of Ray Savich
>> Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:08 AM
>> To: ' af@afmug.com ' 
>> Subject [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

>> �

>> Add your input to the Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey.

>> https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP

>> �

>> �

>> Join the Conversation

>> Cambium Networks Community Forum

>> �

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

[Matt Mangriotis]

Very good question George...

I am trying to gauge interest.  Some folks would prefer that they are using the 
same equipment throughout the network, and we don't really have an option right 
now for a lower priced (shorter range) but high throughput extension of the 
network, but still a 450.  Same SMs, etc...

Really wondering if many folks can't complete a certain percentage of installs 
due to obstructions (foliage) using 5 GHz, but could utilize an "under the 
canopy" type of solution to light up a neighborhood.  Is that a really common 
situation?  How common?

Any feedback is welcome, and I value your guys' opinions (more than some 
others)...

Matt

From: Af  On Behalf Of George Skorup
Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 9:48 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

Ok, I guess I have to be the one to say this. Why would we want a 450-based 
micro-POP product when we have ePMP? Just askin'.
On 6/7/2018 10:29 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:
I would really like to get your opinions on this topic� would a 450 device 
like this help you in your network?
�
Now�s you chance to comment and help direct us!
�
Please fill out the short survey and add any other info you�d like.� It�s 
only 16 questions.
�
Matt
�
From: Af  On Behalf Of Ray 
Savich
Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:08 AM
To: 'af@afmug.com' 
Subject [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
�
Add your input to the Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey.
https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP
�
�
Join the Conversation
Cambium Networks Community 
Forum
�