[AFMUG] WB Mfg Europe Distributor

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Chuck-
Are your products available in (western) Europe?  I called WB today asking for 
any if there are any European distributors and the gal who answered said “not 
to my knowledge”.

I’m recommending your product out here but can’t seem to find a place to buy 
it!  (:

Thanks,
Scott

Re: [AFMUG] New competition in town

[Scott Vander Dussen]

I see they sprung for the pressure treated 4x4 — nice touch; clearly they’re 
planning long-term.

> On 28 Apr 2017, at 16:31, Adam Moffett  wrote:
> 
> We can hope that.  Even so, my temporary install would be a lot prettier than 
> that.
> 
> 
> 
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Jay Weekley" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 4/28/2017 10:22:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New competition in town
> 
>> Maybe it's an emergency link that's temporary.  I've been known to use 
>> materials at hand because we got a call at 2pm that a fiber link had been 
>> damaged and they needed an emergency bypass.
>> 
>> Nate Burke wrote:
>>> The actual install aside, why is this guy coming to town?  Filling in areas 
>>> that you couldn't/wouldn't?  Or somebody specifically trying to screw with 
>>> you.  Or is this a municipality that had a 'consultant' tell them he could 
>>> link all their buildings together with 1G for $75.
>>> 
>>> On 4/28/2017 8:51 AM, Dave wrote:
 Lets consider the design for a moment besides the untreated wood and 
 single base pole mount.
 How long do we expect the life of this to last when the first big rain 
 storm comes through with water running straight into the bucket and 
 filling it with water
 given the wind doesnt blow it clean off the roof.
 I need this competitor in my area. LOL
 
 
 On 04/27/2017 12:18 AM, Sean Heskett wrote:
> I think my favorite part (besides the bucket) is the single hose clamp 
> holding the whole thing to the roof :-/
> 
> -sean
> 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 10:05 PM Mathew Howard  
> wrote:
> 
>that... is a thing of beauty!
> 
>On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 11:53 PM, Steve Jones
>mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>
>wrote:
> 
>if youre going to mount your radios on some plywood, you
>might as well use indoor patch cords to connect them to your
>bucket
> 
>On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 11:42 PM, Sean Heskett
> wrote:
> 
>Seems legit to me...
> 
> 
> 
 
 --
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Virus-free. www.avg.com 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>> 
> 

[AFMUG] 450m sync with legacy 450

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Assuming all parameters (downlink, channel size, max distance, control slots, 
frame size..etc.) are consistent, will a 450m sync with the legacy 450 APs?

[AFMUG] TowerPoint Capital

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Anyone have experience working with TowerPoint Capital?  They’re a tower lease 
acquirer, they’re offering to purchase a Verizon tower lease contract- reading 
through the agreement they seem a bit slimy.

TIA,
Scott

Re: [AFMUG] RF armor radome

[Scott Vander Dussen]

lololo

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Lewis Bergman
Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2016 15:13
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RF armor radome

You should borrow Jaime's camera. I can't see a thing.

On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 8:10 AM Josh Luthman 
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:

RIP in pieces.  Who knows how long that's been that way.  Will never buy them 
again.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

Re: [AFMUG] Routed Gigabit Micro Repeater (Mimosa hardware)

[Scott Vander Dussen]

No ventilation for that enclosure?  Those Netonix are only rated for +55C*

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rob Genovesi
Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2016 01:22
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Routed Gigabit Micro Repeater (Mimosa hardware)

Netonix switches have been great for us.  We're using the DC model with a few 
batteries for backup.  The Netonix takes 9-60 VDC in and can output 24V or 48V 
(configurable by port).  Perfect for powering a 24V Mikrotik and a few 48V 
radios.

-Rob



On Wed, May 4, 2016 at 3:02 PM, Christopher Gray  
wrote:
> For my routed 100 Mbps micro repeater sites I've been running MikroTik 
> RB750P routers for both routing traffic and powering radios (With good 
> results).
>
> I want to setup my first small routed 1 Gbps repeater site using 2x B5 
> backhaul links and 1x A5 PtMP. What are others using to run a small 
> routed site that runs 48V Gigabit radios?
>
> I'm considering a RB750G with a Netonix WS-6-MINI, but using a Netonix 
> as a power injector seems a little overkill.

Re: [AFMUG] Enclosure AC install

[Scott Vander Dussen]

What the heck Jamie… that tap to focus is really working out for you, like for 
2/3 photos man—excellente!  (:

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 15:27
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Enclosure AC install

On Apr 29, 2016 4:23 PM, "Jaime Solorza" 
mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:

We got unit this morning.   Installed in 2 1/2 hours

Re: [AFMUG] Padlock with tether (solution)

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Yeah, I was thinking more security but I don't know how real that threat is. 
Anyone have their stuff messed with by other tower tenants?  Once we had a crew 
step on the eth liquid tight threaded into the bottom of an AP. Upon damaging 
the liquid tight and threads they kindly taped it back into place. We 
discovered the problem after a few rain storms when the eth would only connect 
at 10FDX.

Thanks,
`S

---
Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.

On Apr 29, 2016, at 10:54, Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

For a box on the tower I would put in a pin or chunk of wire instead of a lock.

My fear would be somebody climbing up and finding the lock seized up.now 
they gotta haul up an angle grinder or sawsall.


-- Original Message ------
From: "Scott Vander Dussen" mailto:sc...@velociter.net>>
To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Sent: 4/29/2016 1:16:26 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Padlock with tether (solution)

This is one of those mind boggling websites that gives you everything you want 
with the exception of actually being able to purchase the product.

Thanks,
'S

Sent mobile!

On Apr 29, 2016, at 10:14, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:

https://www.dropsafe.com/products/padlock/

Thanks,
'S

Sent mobile!

On Apr 29, 2016, at 10:06, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:

Lol, there's an idea!  I'm most concerned about dropping the lock when it's 
unlocked and the tower crew is working on the enclosure.

Thanks,
'S

Sent mobile!

On Apr 29, 2016, at 09:37, Josh Luthman 
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:


Couldn't you just lock it?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Apr 29, 2016 12:34 PM, "Scott Vander Dussen" 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
Looking for a lock, preferably combination that has a short tether or 
provisions for adding one. It will be installed at height and I want to prevent 
accidental dropping of the lock, thx.

Thanks,
'S

Sent mobile!

Re: [AFMUG] Padlock with tether (solution)

[Scott Vander Dussen]

This is one of those mind boggling websites that gives you everything you want 
with the exception of actually being able to purchase the product.

Thanks,
'S

Sent mobile!

On Apr 29, 2016, at 10:14, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:

https://www.dropsafe.com/products/padlock/

Thanks,
'S

Sent mobile!

On Apr 29, 2016, at 10:06, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:

Lol, there's an idea!  I'm most concerned about dropping the lock when it's 
unlocked and the tower crew is working on the enclosure.

Thanks,
'S

Sent mobile!

On Apr 29, 2016, at 09:37, Josh Luthman 
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:


Couldn't you just lock it?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Apr 29, 2016 12:34 PM, "Scott Vander Dussen" 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
Looking for a lock, preferably combination that has a short tether or 
provisions for adding one. It will be installed at height and I want to prevent 
accidental dropping of the lock, thx.

Thanks,
'S

Sent mobile!

Re: [AFMUG] Padlock with tether (solution)

[Scott Vander Dussen]

https://www.dropsafe.com/products/padlock/

Thanks,
'S

Sent mobile!

On Apr 29, 2016, at 10:06, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:

Lol, there's an idea!  I'm most concerned about dropping the lock when it's 
unlocked and the tower crew is working on the enclosure.

Thanks,
'S

Sent mobile!

On Apr 29, 2016, at 09:37, Josh Luthman 
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:


Couldn't you just lock it?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Apr 29, 2016 12:34 PM, "Scott Vander Dussen" 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
Looking for a lock, preferably combination that has a short tether or 
provisions for adding one. It will be installed at height and I want to prevent 
accidental dropping of the lock, thx.

Thanks,
'S

Sent mobile!

Re: [AFMUG] Padlock with tether

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Wanting a more robust long term professional in appearance solution, but maybe 
like a small cable riveted in some fashion.

Thanks,
'S

Sent mobile!

On Apr 29, 2016, at 09:45, Joshaven Mailing Lists 
mailto:lis...@joshaven.com>> wrote:

You don't want to just put a shoe string on padlock?

Sincerely,
Joshaven Potter
Google Hangouts: j...@g2wireless.co<mailto:j...@g2wireless.co>
Cell & SMS: 1-517-607-9370
supp...@joshaven.com<mailto:supp...@joshaven.com>



On Apr 29, 2016, at 12:34 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:

Looking for a lock, preferably combination that has a short tether or 
provisions for adding one. It will be installed at height and I want to prevent 
accidental dropping of the lock, thx.

Thanks,
'S

Sent mobile!

Re: [AFMUG] Padlock with tether

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Lol, there's an idea!  I'm most concerned about dropping the lock when it's 
unlocked and the tower crew is working on the enclosure.

Thanks,
'S

Sent mobile!

On Apr 29, 2016, at 09:37, Josh Luthman 
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:


Couldn't you just lock it?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Apr 29, 2016 12:34 PM, "Scott Vander Dussen" 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
Looking for a lock, preferably combination that has a short tether or 
provisions for adding one. It will be installed at height and I want to prevent 
accidental dropping of the lock, thx.

Thanks,
'S

Sent mobile!

[AFMUG] Padlock with tether

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Looking for a lock, preferably combination that has a short tether or 
provisions for adding one. It will be installed at height and I want to prevent 
accidental dropping of the lock, thx. 

Thanks,
'S

Sent mobile!

Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

[Scott Vander Dussen]

He sees me as redeemed! :)

Thanks,
`S

---
Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.

On Apr 28, 2016, at 16:27, Jaime Solorza 
mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:


You must be on good terms with God...14:years. wow

On Apr 28, 2016 2:49 PM, "Scott Vander Dussen" 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
Thanks Jamie, we didn't fuse/breaker the inside of the box because we have that 
at the base with the rectifier.  We live in CA where the weather is fairly 
predictable and don't suffer from lightening.  In 14 years we've never had a 
single device fried from something that fuse/breaker would have prevented.  I 
didn't want to risk having something that needed to be reset or replaced that 
was tower mounted, but only at the base.

`S

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 9:55 AM
To: Animal Farm mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?


Oops
On Apr 28, 2016 9:31 AM, "Brian Sullivan" 
mailto:installe...@foxvalley.net>> wrote:
Like.  How much to just build three for us?
On 4/28/2016 7:02 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
Hopefully you don't have rackmount at the top of your towers.  :)

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 6:57 AM, David 
mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com>> wrote:
Now we need rack mount since 99% of mine are all rackmount :)

On 04/28/2016 06:32 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
This looks nice.  Good job.  What all do you have at the bottom?

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
I built a CMM for 2016!

Highlights:

* Gigabit everything

* BiDi fiber support for 6 devices

* Sync/Power up to 24 devices

* Power 24v and 48v devices

* Temperature monitoring

* Fan ventilation controlled by rain/condensation sensor

* Fan seizure notification

* LED light strip controlled by door

* Door alarm trigger

* Hoist pull loop

* 20" x 18" x 10"

* 36lbs

* Price circa $2100

Photo here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM.jpg
Parts list here: 
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM%20Details.pdf

Any suggestions to make this more awesome?

[http://www.flutecrate.com/uploads/1/0/2/0/10200817/5243300_orig.jpg]

Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

[Scott Vander Dussen]

I ordered the ICT rectifier from Matthew Bavosa at Tessco

Matthew Bavosa
TESSCO Technologies Inc.
Public Network Organizations
410-229-1182  Tel
410-527-0005 Fax
bavo...@tessco.com
Sales Support: (800) 472-7373

Pricing was about $770 for the ICT600-24SBC and $1150 for the ICT1200-24SBC.  
Just curious, why are people always so shy to share pricing on-list?  Seems 
like it would be beneficial for others but obviously I must be missing 
something and committing a faux pas.

`S

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Baird
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 9:12 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

Interesting that you are using 24V and not 48V especially since you are running 
DC up the tower where voltage drop may be a concern.  I realize the 
WS-12-250-DC's will automatically up-convert to whatever, but they are more 
efficient if you feed them a higher voltage (~48V).  If you already have 4 
batteries at the base, what is keeping you from using a 48VDC rectifier?

Would you mind sharing the approximate cost of that ICT?  Off-list is fine if 
you would like.

Thanks,

Josh

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 12:01 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
Thanks!  The base of the tower is quite simple:

Kendall Howard 12U 19" Wall Mount Rack http://goo.gl/pbpnbk
ICT1200-24SBC 24v rectifier (also a 600W version available) http://goo.gl/GkOBBW
12v 45ah TR45-12 Tempest AGM Batteries (4x in parallel and series to make 24v) 
http://goo.gl/rCXciW
3U 19" Inch Rack Mount Shelf For Pro Audio and Computer Networking 
http://goo.gl/SJQ6DP
MikroTik CCR1016-12S-1S+ http://goo.gl/h5N4RQ
6 Port Rack Mount Fiber Enclosure Pre-Loaded with SC SM Connectors 
http://goo.gl/8x5fcg

The 4x batteries fit on the 3U tray and take up just under 4U of total height.  
There is enough room in the 12U rack for up to 2 of these 4U battery trays.  
The MikroTik is all SFP ports because we run fiber to everything, with the 
exception of one copper eth cable to the rectifier for battery management and 
monitoring.

Incidentally the Mimosa B11 backhauls will accept the BiDi SFP transceivers 
linked on the SMM Details.PDF parts list, provided they are HP compatibility.  
So we use the switch to power the B11s and then it’s fiber goes directly into 
the fiber patch panel (fiber run in liquidtight from enclosure).  The CCR1016 
then has all the backhauls directly connected via fiber, and the APs are 
grouped 8 APs per switch (per fiber) so for every 8 APs there’s a full gig to 
the router.  (You could have 12 APs per switch if you added 6 SyncInjectors 
total).  The enclosures are standardized so we are building to have hot spares 
on standby ready to go in the event of a catastrophic failure.

I was asked offline about what DC/fiber we’re using:
1000’ 12/4 SOOW SO 600V Power Cord http://goo.gl/mKVXG1
Armored outdoor OS2 singlemode 9/125 6-strand fiber, Male SC UPC Simplex to 
Male SC UPC Simplex, http://www.best-tronics.com/fiber.htm

`S


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of Josh Baird
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 04:32
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

This looks nice.  Good job.  What all do you have at the bottom?

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
I built a CMM for 2016!

Highlights:

* Gigabit everything

* BiDi fiber support for 6 devices

* Sync/Power up to 24 devices

* Power 24v and 48v devices

* Temperature monitoring

* Fan ventilation controlled by rain/condensation sensor

* Fan seizure notification

* LED light strip controlled by door

* Door alarm trigger

* Hoist pull loop

* 20" x 18" x 10"

* 36lbs

* Price circa $2100

Photo here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM.jpg
Parts list here: 
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM%20Details.pdf

Any suggestions to make this more awesome?

[http://www.flutecrate.com/uploads/1/0/2/0/10200817/5243300_orig.jpg]

Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Oh right, I didn’t want separate timing cables, that’s what it was.  A 12 port 
Gigabit SyncInjector would be awesome though!

`S

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Baird
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 10:01 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

They only do timing, not ethernet.  You run dedicated timing cables from the AP 
to the SyncBox, and then Cat5 from the AP to the Netonix switch for power+data.

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 12:41 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
I considered those but they're not gigabit, correct?

Thanks,
`S

---
Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.

On Apr 28, 2016, at 09:39, Josh Baird 
mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Oh, yeah, that was you!  That makes sense.  We are looking at using SyncBox 
12's at the top just for timing FSK (and 450 too I guess).  This allows us to 
run 48V up the tower which we use to power WS-12-250-DC's.  The FSK/450 gets 
timing port sync from the SyncBox and 24V power from the WS-12-250-DC.  No need 
for separate SyncInjectors or DC-DC converters in this scenario.  Just an idea.

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 11:25 AM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
I'm the guy who just smoked a ring of FSK APs by running 48v to them! :)  I 
wanted to use 48v for the reasons you just stated but because much of the 
Cambium equipment is only 24v this meant having a DC DC converter in the 
enclosure which is another point of failure, expensive, and impractical to step 
down large wattages.  I understand the same point of failure is in the WS but 
it's integrated and hidden so I pretend it's not there. :)

With the 12awg SOOW we use even on a 600' run there is less than 3% voltage 
drop. The WS can take as little as 9VDC. The rectifier can easily be tuned up 
to 27v to offset any drop. Also we gut the AC DC supplies in the 1016 Mikrotik 
and run it direct DC since it takes 24vdc.  Everything is fully DC, finally!

I'll reply with ICT price when I'm back in the office.
Thanks,
'S

Sent mobile!

On Apr 28, 2016, at 09:15, Josh Baird 
mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Interesting that you are using 24V and not 48V especially since you are running 
DC up the tower where voltage drop may be a concern.  I realize the 
WS-12-250-DC's will automatically up-convert to whatever, but they are more 
efficient if you feed them a higher voltage (~48V).  If you already have 4 
batteries at the base, what is keeping you from using a 48VDC rectifier?

Would you mind sharing the approximate cost of that ICT?  Off-list is fine if 
you would like.

Thanks,

Josh

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 12:01 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
Thanks!  The base of the tower is quite simple:

Kendall Howard 12U 19" Wall Mount Rack http://goo.gl/pbpnbk
ICT1200-24SBC 24v rectifier (also a 600W version available) http://goo.gl/GkOBBW
12v 45ah TR45-12 Tempest AGM Batteries (4x in parallel and series to make 24v) 
http://goo.gl/rCXciW
3U 19" Inch Rack Mount Shelf For Pro Audio and Computer Networking 
http://goo.gl/SJQ6DP
MikroTik CCR1016-12S-1S+ http://goo.gl/h5N4RQ
6 Port Rack Mount Fiber Enclosure Pre-Loaded with SC SM Connectors 
http://goo.gl/8x5fcg

The 4x batteries fit on the 3U tray and take up just under 4U of total height.  
There is enough room in the 12U rack for up to 2 of these 4U battery trays.  
The MikroTik is all SFP ports because we run fiber to everything, with the 
exception of one copper eth cable to the rectifier for battery management and 
monitoring.

Incidentally the Mimosa B11 backhauls will accept the BiDi SFP transceivers 
linked on the SMM Details.PDF parts list, provided they are HP compatibility.  
So we use the switch to power the B11s and then it’s fiber goes directly into 
the fiber patch panel (fiber run in liquidtight from enclosure).  The CCR1016 
then has all the backhauls directly connected via fiber, and the APs are 
grouped 8 APs per switch (per fiber) so for every 8 APs there’s a full gig to 
the router.  (You could have 12 APs per switch if you added 6 SyncInjectors 
total).  The enclosures are standardized so we are building to have hot spares 
on standby ready to go in the event of a catastrophic failure.

I was asked offline about what DC/fiber we’re using:
1000’ 12/4 SOOW SO 600V Power Cord http://goo.gl/mKVXG1
Armored outdoor OS2 singlemode 9/125 6-strand fiber, Male SC UPC Simplex to 
Male SC UPC Simplex, http://www.best-tronics.com/fiber.htm

`S


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of Josh Baird
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 04:32
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

This looks nice.  Good job.  What all do you have at the bottom?

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>

Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

[Scott Vander Dussen]

I didn't use a condensate drain besides two small weep holes.  I'll give some 
consideration to reinforcing the strut, tower guys said the same thing.

`S

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 9:51 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

Put a neoprene washer under the bolt, and a bead of silicone behind the 
strut.� Even if it someday down the road it started weeping during the rain 
it would just fall out through your condensate drain.

.I didn't read your parts list though.� If you don't have a condensate 
drain you should think about that.

On 4/28/2016 12:40 PM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote:

Yeah I feel the same. The two are going into reinforced embedded threads- 
adding more would mean a penetration to the box :/ maybe JB weld the strut on 
there too!



Thanks,

`S



---

Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.



On Apr 28, 2016, at 09:37, Adam Moffett 
<mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:



Very nice.



Just an opinion, but I would put a few more bolts into that mounting strut.  
I'm guessing you've got one in each corner.  Even low grade steel bolts are 
staggeringly strong, but if you had a bad one then suddenly you're hanging on 
one bolt.





On 4/27/2016 8:54 PM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote:

I built a CMM for 2016!



Highlights:



* Gigabit everything



* BiDi fiber support for 6 devices



* Sync/Power up to 24 devices



* Power 24v and 48v devices



* Temperature monitoring



* Fan ventilation controlled by rain/condensation sensor



* Fan seizure notification



* LED light strip controlled by door



* Door alarm trigger



* Hoist pull loop



* 20" x 18" x 10"



* 36lbs



* Price circa $2100



Photo here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM.jpg

Parts list here: 
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM%20Details.pdf



Any suggestions to make this more awesome?



[http://www.flutecrate.com/uploads/1/0/2/0/10200817/5243300_orig.jpg]

Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Thanks Jamie, we didn’t fuse/breaker the inside of the box because we have that 
at the base with the rectifier.  We live in CA where the weather is fairly 
predictable and don’t suffer from lightening.  In 14 years we’ve never had a 
single device fried from something that fuse/breaker would have prevented.  I 
didn’t want to risk having something that needed to be reset or replaced that 
was tower mounted, but only at the base.

`S

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 9:55 AM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?


Oops
On Apr 28, 2016 9:31 AM, "Brian Sullivan" 
mailto:installe...@foxvalley.net>> wrote:
Like.  How much to just build three for us?
On 4/28/2016 7:02 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
Hopefully you don't have rackmount at the top of your towers.  :)

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 6:57 AM, David 
mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com>> wrote:
Now we need rack mount since 99% of mine are all rackmount :)

On 04/28/2016 06:32 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
This looks nice.  Good job.  What all do you have at the bottom?

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
I built a CMM for 2016!

Highlights:

* Gigabit everything

* BiDi fiber support for 6 devices

* Sync/Power up to 24 devices

* Power 24v and 48v devices

* Temperature monitoring

* Fan ventilation controlled by rain/condensation sensor

* Fan seizure notification

* LED light strip controlled by door

* Door alarm trigger

* Hoist pull loop

* 20" x 18" x 10"

* 36lbs

* Price circa $2100

Photo here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM.jpg
Parts list here: 
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM%20Details.pdf

Any suggestions to make this more awesome?

[http://www.flutecrate.com/uploads/1/0/2/0/10200817/5243300_orig.jpg]

Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

[Scott Vander Dussen]

I considered those but they're not gigabit, correct?

Thanks,
`S

---
Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.

On Apr 28, 2016, at 09:39, Josh Baird 
mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Oh, yeah, that was you!  That makes sense.  We are looking at using SyncBox 
12's at the top just for timing FSK (and 450 too I guess).  This allows us to 
run 48V up the tower which we use to power WS-12-250-DC's.  The FSK/450 gets 
timing port sync from the SyncBox and 24V power from the WS-12-250-DC.  No need 
for separate SyncInjectors or DC-DC converters in this scenario.  Just an idea.

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 11:25 AM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
I'm the guy who just smoked a ring of FSK APs by running 48v to them! :)  I 
wanted to use 48v for the reasons you just stated but because much of the 
Cambium equipment is only 24v this meant having a DC DC converter in the 
enclosure which is another point of failure, expensive, and impractical to step 
down large wattages.  I understand the same point of failure is in the WS but 
it's integrated and hidden so I pretend it's not there. :)

With the 12awg SOOW we use even on a 600' run there is less than 3% voltage 
drop. The WS can take as little as 9VDC. The rectifier can easily be tuned up 
to 27v to offset any drop. Also we gut the AC DC supplies in the 1016 Mikrotik 
and run it direct DC since it takes 24vdc.  Everything is fully DC, finally!

I'll reply with ICT price when I'm back in the office.

Thanks,
'S

Sent mobile!

On Apr 28, 2016, at 09:15, Josh Baird 
mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Interesting that you are using 24V and not 48V especially since you are running 
DC up the tower where voltage drop may be a concern.  I realize the 
WS-12-250-DC's will automatically up-convert to whatever, but they are more 
efficient if you feed them a higher voltage (~48V).  If you already have 4 
batteries at the base, what is keeping you from using a 48VDC rectifier?

Would you mind sharing the approximate cost of that ICT?  Off-list is fine if 
you would like.

Thanks,

Josh

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 12:01 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
Thanks!  The base of the tower is quite simple:

Kendall Howard 12U 19" Wall Mount Rack http://goo.gl/pbpnbk
ICT1200-24SBC 24v rectifier (also a 600W version available) http://goo.gl/GkOBBW
12v 45ah TR45-12 Tempest AGM Batteries (4x in parallel and series to make 24v) 
http://goo.gl/rCXciW
3U 19" Inch Rack Mount Shelf For Pro Audio and Computer Networking 
http://goo.gl/SJQ6DP
MikroTik CCR1016-12S-1S+ http://goo.gl/h5N4RQ
6 Port Rack Mount Fiber Enclosure Pre-Loaded with SC SM Connectors 
http://goo.gl/8x5fcg

The 4x batteries fit on the 3U tray and take up just under 4U of total height.  
There is enough room in the 12U rack for up to 2 of these 4U battery trays.  
The MikroTik is all SFP ports because we run fiber to everything, with the 
exception of one copper eth cable to the rectifier for battery management and 
monitoring.

Incidentally the Mimosa B11 backhauls will accept the BiDi SFP transceivers 
linked on the SMM Details.PDF parts list, provided they are HP compatibility.  
So we use the switch to power the B11s and then it’s fiber goes directly into 
the fiber patch panel (fiber run in liquidtight from enclosure).  The CCR1016 
then has all the backhauls directly connected via fiber, and the APs are 
grouped 8 APs per switch (per fiber) so for every 8 APs there’s a full gig to 
the router.  (You could have 12 APs per switch if you added 6 SyncInjectors 
total).  The enclosures are standardized so we are building to have hot spares 
on standby ready to go in the event of a catastrophic failure.

I was asked offline about what DC/fiber we’re using:
1000’ 12/4 SOOW SO 600V Power Cord http://goo.gl/mKVXG1
Armored outdoor OS2 singlemode 9/125 6-strand fiber, Male SC UPC Simplex to 
Male SC UPC Simplex, http://www.best-tronics.com/fiber.htm

`S


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of Josh Baird
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 04:32
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

This looks nice.  Good job.  What all do you have at the bottom?

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
I built a CMM for 2016!

Highlights:

* Gigabit everything

* BiDi fiber support for 6 devices

* Sync/Power up to 24 devices

* Power 24v and 48v devices

* Temperature monitoring

* Fan ventilation controlled by rain/condensation sensor

* Fan seizure notification

* LED light strip controlled by door

* Door alarm trigger

* Hoist pull loop

* 20" x 18" x 10"

* 36lbs

* Price circa $2100

Photo here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6

Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Yeah I feel the same. The two are going into reinforced embedded threads- 
adding more would mean a penetration to the box :/ maybe JB weld the strut on 
there too! 

Thanks,
`S

---
Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.

> On Apr 28, 2016, at 09:37, Adam Moffett  wrote:
> 
> Very nice.
> 
> Just an opinion, but I would put a few more bolts into that mounting strut.  
> I'm guessing you've got one in each corner.  Even low grade steel bolts are 
> staggeringly strong, but if you had a bad one then suddenly you're hanging on 
> one bolt.
> 
> 
>> On 4/27/2016 8:54 PM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote:
>> I built a CMM for 2016!
>> 
>> Highlights:
>> 
>> * Gigabit everything
>> 
>> * BiDi fiber support for 6 devices
>> 
>> * Sync/Power up to 24 devices
>> 
>> * Power 24v and 48v devices
>> 
>> * Temperature monitoring
>> 
>> * Fan ventilation controlled by rain/condensation sensor
>> 
>> * Fan seizure notification
>> 
>> * LED light strip controlled by door
>> 
>> * Door alarm trigger
>> 
>> * Hoist pull loop
>> 
>> * 20" x 18" x 10"
>> 
>> * 36lbs
>> 
>> * Price circa $2100
>> 
>> Photo here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM.jpg
>> Parts list here: 
>> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM%20Details.pdf
>> 
>> Any suggestions to make this more awesome?
>> 
>> [http://www.flutecrate.com/uploads/1/0/2/0/10200817/5243300_orig.jpg]
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

[Scott Vander Dussen]

I'm the guy who just smoked a ring of FSK APs by running 48v to them! :)  I 
wanted to use 48v for the reasons you just stated but because much of the 
Cambium equipment is only 24v this meant having a DC DC converter in the 
enclosure which is another point of failure, expensive, and impractical to step 
down large wattages.  I understand the same point of failure is in the WS but 
it's integrated and hidden so I pretend it's not there. :)

With the 12awg SOOW we use even on a 600' run there is less than 3% voltage 
drop. The WS can take as little as 9VDC. The rectifier can easily be tuned up 
to 27v to offset any drop. Also we gut the AC DC supplies in the 1016 Mikrotik 
and run it direct DC since it takes 24vdc.  Everything is fully DC, finally!

I'll reply with ICT price when I'm back in the office.

Thanks,
'S

Sent mobile!

On Apr 28, 2016, at 09:15, Josh Baird 
mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Interesting that you are using 24V and not 48V especially since you are running 
DC up the tower where voltage drop may be a concern.  I realize the 
WS-12-250-DC's will automatically up-convert to whatever, but they are more 
efficient if you feed them a higher voltage (~48V).  If you already have 4 
batteries at the base, what is keeping you from using a 48VDC rectifier?

Would you mind sharing the approximate cost of that ICT?  Off-list is fine if 
you would like.

Thanks,

Josh

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 12:01 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
Thanks!  The base of the tower is quite simple:

Kendall Howard 12U 19" Wall Mount Rack http://goo.gl/pbpnbk
ICT1200-24SBC 24v rectifier (also a 600W version available) http://goo.gl/GkOBBW
12v 45ah TR45-12 Tempest AGM Batteries (4x in parallel and series to make 24v) 
http://goo.gl/rCXciW
3U 19" Inch Rack Mount Shelf For Pro Audio and Computer Networking 
http://goo.gl/SJQ6DP
MikroTik CCR1016-12S-1S+ http://goo.gl/h5N4RQ
6 Port Rack Mount Fiber Enclosure Pre-Loaded with SC SM Connectors 
http://goo.gl/8x5fcg

The 4x batteries fit on the 3U tray and take up just under 4U of total height.  
There is enough room in the 12U rack for up to 2 of these 4U battery trays.  
The MikroTik is all SFP ports because we run fiber to everything, with the 
exception of one copper eth cable to the rectifier for battery management and 
monitoring.

Incidentally the Mimosa B11 backhauls will accept the BiDi SFP transceivers 
linked on the SMM Details.PDF parts list, provided they are HP compatibility.  
So we use the switch to power the B11s and then it's fiber goes directly into 
the fiber patch panel (fiber run in liquidtight from enclosure).  The CCR1016 
then has all the backhauls directly connected via fiber, and the APs are 
grouped 8 APs per switch (per fiber) so for every 8 APs there's a full gig to 
the router.  (You could have 12 APs per switch if you added 6 SyncInjectors 
total).  The enclosures are standardized so we are building to have hot spares 
on standby ready to go in the event of a catastrophic failure.

I was asked offline about what DC/fiber we're using:
1000' 12/4 SOOW SO 600V Power Cord http://goo.gl/mKVXG1
Armored outdoor OS2 singlemode 9/125 6-strand fiber, Male SC UPC Simplex to 
Male SC UPC Simplex, http://www.best-tronics.com/fiber.htm

`S


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of Josh Baird
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 04:32
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

This looks nice.  Good job.  What all do you have at the bottom?

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
I built a CMM for 2016!

Highlights:

* Gigabit everything

* BiDi fiber support for 6 devices

* Sync/Power up to 24 devices

* Power 24v and 48v devices

* Temperature monitoring

* Fan ventilation controlled by rain/condensation sensor

* Fan seizure notification

* LED light strip controlled by door

* Door alarm trigger

* Hoist pull loop

* 20" x 18" x 10"

* 36lbs

* Price circa $2100

Photo here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM.jpg
Parts list here: 
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM%20Details.pdf

Any suggestions to make this more awesome?

[http://www.flutecrate.com/uploads/1/0/2/0/10200817/5243300_orig.jpg]

Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Thanks!  The base of the tower is quite simple:

Kendall Howard 12U 19" Wall Mount Rack http://goo.gl/pbpnbk
ICT1200-24SBC 24v rectifier (also a 600W version available) http://goo.gl/GkOBBW
12v 45ah TR45-12 Tempest AGM Batteries (4x in parallel and series to make 24v) 
http://goo.gl/rCXciW
3U 19" Inch Rack Mount Shelf For Pro Audio and Computer Networking 
http://goo.gl/SJQ6DP
MikroTik CCR1016-12S-1S+ http://goo.gl/h5N4RQ
6 Port Rack Mount Fiber Enclosure Pre-Loaded with SC SM Connectors 
http://goo.gl/8x5fcg

The 4x batteries fit on the 3U tray and take up just under 4U of total height.  
There is enough room in the 12U rack for up to 2 of these 4U battery trays.  
The MikroTik is all SFP ports because we run fiber to everything, with the 
exception of one copper eth cable to the rectifier for battery management and 
monitoring.

Incidentally the Mimosa B11 backhauls will accept the BiDi SFP transceivers 
linked on the SMM Details.PDF parts list, provided they are HP compatibility.  
So we use the switch to power the B11s and then it’s fiber goes directly into 
the fiber patch panel (fiber run in liquidtight from enclosure).  The CCR1016 
then has all the backhauls directly connected via fiber, and the APs are 
grouped 8 APs per switch (per fiber) so for every 8 APs there’s a full gig to 
the router.  (You could have 12 APs per switch if you added 6 SyncInjectors 
total).  The enclosures are standardized so we are building to have hot spares 
on standby ready to go in the event of a catastrophic failure.

I was asked offline about what DC/fiber we’re using:
1000’ 12/4 SOOW SO 600V Power Cord http://goo.gl/mKVXG1
Armored outdoor OS2 singlemode 9/125 6-strand fiber, Male SC UPC Simplex to 
Male SC UPC Simplex, http://www.best-tronics.com/fiber.htm

`S


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Baird
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 04:32
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

This looks nice.  Good job.  What all do you have at the bottom?

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
I built a CMM for 2016!

Highlights:

* Gigabit everything

* BiDi fiber support for 6 devices

* Sync/Power up to 24 devices

* Power 24v and 48v devices

* Temperature monitoring

* Fan ventilation controlled by rain/condensation sensor

* Fan seizure notification

* LED light strip controlled by door

* Door alarm trigger

* Hoist pull loop

* 20" x 18" x 10"

* 36lbs

* Price circa $2100

Photo here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM.jpg
Parts list here: 
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM%20Details.pdf

Any suggestions to make this more awesome?

[http://www.flutecrate.com/uploads/1/0/2/0/10200817/5243300_orig.jpg]

[AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

[Scott Vander Dussen]

I built a CMM for 2016!

Highlights:

* Gigabit everything

* BiDi fiber support for 6 devices

* Sync/Power up to 24 devices

* Power 24v and 48v devices

* Temperature monitoring

* Fan ventilation controlled by rain/condensation sensor

* Fan seizure notification

* LED light strip controlled by door

* Door alarm trigger

* Hoist pull loop

* 20" x 18" x 10"

* 36lbs

* Price circa $2100

Photo here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM.jpg
Parts list here: 
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM%20Details.pdf

Any suggestions to make this more awesome?

[http://www.flutecrate.com/uploads/1/0/2/0/10200817/5243300_orig.jpg]

Re: [AFMUG] PacketFlux Site Monitor Switch

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Weird, stripped off my PNG attachment?  Here's the link:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/sitemonitor.png

`S

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Scott Vander Dussen
Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 2:11 PM
To: 'AF Cambium List (af@afmug.com)' 
Subject: [AFMUG] PacketFlux Site Monitor Switch

Enclosure with a door relay switch.  When the door is open the relay switch 
turns on a light, and trips the site monitor's switch input to send an alert 
that the door is open.

When the circuit is connected as show in the attached PNG the site monitor 
always reads the switch input as 1 or connected regardless of the state of the 
door switch relay.  When we reverse the wires going into the site monitor 
switch input everything works perfectly.  So when the door relay switch's C is 
connected to the right hand side of the switch input and the NO is connected to 
the left it works as expected.

This totally does NOT make sense to me at all :/

I thought perhaps the Site Monitor was bridging the switch inputs and the 
negative rail of the power source internally.  To test that theory I connected 
a different power supply directly to the Site Monitor that was separate from 
the power supply used for the light and network switch and also connected to 
the door relay switch.  But even in this state it performed the exact same.  I 
must be missing something?

Scott

[AFMUG] PacketFlux Site Monitor Switch

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Enclosure with a door relay switch.  When the door is open the relay switch 
turns on a light, and trips the site monitor's switch input to send an alert 
that the door is open.

When the circuit is connected as show in the attached PNG the site monitor 
always reads the switch input as 1 or connected regardless of the state of the 
door switch relay.  When we reverse the wires going into the site monitor 
switch input everything works perfectly.  So when the door relay switch's C is 
connected to the right hand side of the switch input and the NO is connected to 
the left it works as expected.

This totally does NOT make sense to me at all :/

I thought perhaps the Site Monitor was bridging the switch inputs and the 
negative rail of the power source internally.  To test that theory I connected 
a different power supply directly to the Site Monitor that was separate from 
the power supply used for the light and network switch and also connected to 
the door relay switch.  But even in this state it performed the exact same.  I 
must be missing something?

Scott

Re: [AFMUG] WTB: 5ghz 450 APs

[Scott Vander Dussen]

#broadbandstimulus... we wipe with Benjamin's.

Thanks,
`S

---
Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.

On Apr 22, 2016, at 19:46, Josh Luthman 
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:


Thanks Scott.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Apr 22, 2016 10:41 PM, "Tyson @ Internet Communications Inc (ICI)" 
mailto:t...@franklinisp.net>> wrote:
Deal!  Hell yes.

Tyson Burris, President
Internet Communications Inc.
739 Commerce Dr.
Franklin, IN 46131

317-738-0320 Daytime #
317-412-1540 Cell/Direct #
Online: www.surfici.net

Forgive the brevity, the typos and my fat fingers!

On Apr 22, 2016, at 10:39 PM, Josh Luthman 
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:


Long as Scott buys em at 15.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Apr 22, 2016 10:36 PM, "Tyson @ Internet Communications Inc (ICI)" 
mailto:t...@franklinisp.net>> wrote:
LMAO.  Ok I will sell you guys 450 APs w sectors and poes for 7K.  Do we have a 
deal?

Tyson Burris, President
Internet Communications Inc.
739 Commerce Dr.
Franklin, IN 46131

317-738-0320 Daytime #
317-412-1540 Cell/Direct #
Online: www.surfici.net

Forgive the brevity, the typos and my fat fingers!

On Apr 22, 2016, at 10:30 PM, Josh Luthman 
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:


Black market radios!

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Apr 22, 2016 10:27 PM, "Tyson @ Internet Communications Inc (ICI)" 
mailto:t...@franklinisp.net>> wrote:
15k?  More like $1700

Tyson Burris, President
Internet Communications Inc.
739 Commerce Dr.
Franklin, IN 46131

317-738-0320 Daytime #
317-412-1540 Cell/Direct #
Online: www.surfici.net

Forgive the brevity, the typos and my fat fingers!

On Apr 22, 2016, at 10:04 PM, Josh Luthman 
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:


450 are pretty expensive...

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Apr 22, 2016 9:54 PM, "Tyson @ Internet Communications Inc (ICI)" 
mailto:t...@franklinisp.net>> wrote:
What exactly are you smoking?

Tyson Burris, President
Internet Communications Inc.
739 Commerce Dr.
Franklin, IN 46131

317-738-0320 Daytime #
317-412-1540 Cell/Direct #
Online: www.surfici.net

Forgive the brevity, the typos and my fat fingers!

On Apr 22, 2016, at 9:06 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:

IKR.. Cambium and their pricing needs to get updated for 2016!

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2016 6:01 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WTB: 5ghz 450 APs

$15k each no antennas or POEs


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 8:56 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
TTSIA!

Re: [AFMUG] WTB: 5ghz 450 APs

[Scott Vander Dussen]

IKR.. Cambium and their pricing needs to get updated for 2016!

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2016 6:01 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WTB: 5ghz 450 APs

$15k each no antennas or POEs


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 8:56 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
TTSIA!

[AFMUG] WTB: 5ghz 450 APs

[Scott Vander Dussen]

TTSIA!

Re: [AFMUG] Enclosure ventilation

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Awesome, thank you.  I ordered one of the RG-11 Rain Sensors which has a 24v 1A 
relay on it and am going to try that out as well.  We have a door sensor 
attached to the site monitor now, could I use that to trigger the site monitor 
relay?  To turn on some 24vdc LED lights inside the enclosure when the door 
opens?

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Forrest Christian (List 
Account)
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 21:22
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Enclosure ventilation

The relay on the base unit is more than large enough to turn on and off that 
fan - at 24V it can switch 2A.  You just run power from your power source into 
the 'c' terminal, and then from the 'n.o' terminal to the fan.  Hook the black 
back to the power source.

If you just want temperature control, there are two values you can set which 
say 'relay on above' and 'relay on below' which will allow you set the relay to 
turn on/off with temperature control.  I'd just set 'relay on above' to 
something like '200', which means turn the fan on over 20*C (about room 
temperature).  If this doesn't work, let me know and I'll get you the correct 
firmware for that (there was a bug which we fixed, but I'm not sure where it is 
in the whole release/shipping/on website process).

-forrest



On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 9:28 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
Fiberglass enclosure
Bud Industries 
IPV-1116<http://www.alliedelec.com/bud-industries-ipv-1116/70368864/> vents
Orion 
WMG60M<http://www.alliedelec.com/orion-knight-electronics-inc-wmg60m/70103693/> 
wire filters
60mm DC 
fan<http://www.rpelectronics.com/cfa246025ms-24vdc-sleeve-bearing-60mm-fan.html>
 with Locked Rotor Alarm Signal Output
60mm guard<http://www.rpelectronics.com/cfg-60m-60mm-metal-finger-guard.html>

The enclosure includes a Site Monitor, I'm hoping to use its secondary DC input 
to monitor the fan's yellow alarm wire lead and trigger an error state in our 
SNMP monitoring if a fan becomes locked.

I'm concerned about the fans running 24x7 potentially bringing in moisture from 
fog/nightly humidity.  With the site monitor could to turn the fans on/off 
based upon ambient temperature or time of day?  If yes, how would I do that, a 
relay?  What kind of relay?  I don't have much experience with relays/Site 
Monitors, thanks.  Or is there some other obvious solution I'm missing?

Another idea is to use a Hyderon RG-11 Rain Sensor / 
Gauge<http://rainsensors.com/how-it-works/> to trigger the fans off for both 
dark (less than 2000 lux) and/or rain.  This seems pretty rad!

Thanks,
`S



--
Forrest Christian CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com<mailto:forre...@imach.com> | 
http://www.packetflux.com<http://www.packetflux.com/>
[https://s3.amazonaws.com/images.wisestamp.com/icons/linkedin.png]<http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian>
 [https://s3.amazonaws.com/images.wisestamp.com/icons/facebook.png] 
<http://facebook.com/packetflux>  
[https://s3.amazonaws.com/images.wisestamp.com/icons/twitter.png] 
<http://twitter.com/@packetflux>

Re: [AFMUG] Enclosure ventilation

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Incidentally, was Tecate to blame for the passenger door?

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 20:34
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Enclosure ventilation


I will share what we are installing tomorrow. We are building an outdoor 
panel with stainless steel enclosure...
On Apr 20, 2016 9:28 PM, "Scott Vander Dussen" 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
Fiberglass enclosure
Bud Industries 
IPV-1116<http://www.alliedelec.com/bud-industries-ipv-1116/70368864/> vents
Orion 
WMG60M<http://www.alliedelec.com/orion-knight-electronics-inc-wmg60m/70103693/> 
wire filters
60mm DC 
fan<http://www.rpelectronics.com/cfa246025ms-24vdc-sleeve-bearing-60mm-fan.html>
 with Locked Rotor Alarm Signal Output
60mm guard<http://www.rpelectronics.com/cfg-60m-60mm-metal-finger-guard.html>

The enclosure includes a Site Monitor, I'm hoping to use its secondary DC input 
to monitor the fan's yellow alarm wire lead and trigger an error state in our 
SNMP monitoring if a fan becomes locked.

I'm concerned about the fans running 24x7 potentially bringing in moisture from 
fog/nightly humidity.  With the site monitor could to turn the fans on/off 
based upon ambient temperature or time of day?  If yes, how would I do that, a 
relay?  What kind of relay?  I don't have much experience with relays/Site 
Monitors, thanks.  Or is there some other obvious solution I'm missing?

Another idea is to use a Hyderon RG-11 Rain Sensor / 
Gauge<http://rainsensors.com/how-it-works/> to trigger the fans off for both 
dark (less than 2000 lux) and/or rain.  This seems pretty rad!

Thanks,
`S

Re: [AFMUG] Enclosure ventilation

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Oh right, ya, they make a 1115 
model<http://www.alliedelec.com/bud-industries-ipv-1115/70368863/> which is 
designed for 60mm, good eye!

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Eric Kuhnke
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 20:37
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Enclosure ventilation

by the way the fan you've linked is 60mm, for that particular vent you will 
want 80mm.  I've never seen an outdoor enclosure done with 60mm fans. 80 or 
120mm move a lot more air and are much quieter.

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 8:28 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
Fiberglass enclosure
Bud Industries 
IPV-1116<http://www.alliedelec.com/bud-industries-ipv-1116/70368864/> vents
Orion 
WMG60M<http://www.alliedelec.com/orion-knight-electronics-inc-wmg60m/70103693/> 
wire filters
60mm DC 
fan<http://www.rpelectronics.com/cfa246025ms-24vdc-sleeve-bearing-60mm-fan.html>
 with Locked Rotor Alarm Signal Output
60mm guard<http://www.rpelectronics.com/cfg-60m-60mm-metal-finger-guard.html>

The enclosure includes a Site Monitor, I'm hoping to use its secondary DC input 
to monitor the fan's yellow alarm wire lead and trigger an error state in our 
SNMP monitoring if a fan becomes locked.

I'm concerned about the fans running 24x7 potentially bringing in moisture from 
fog/nightly humidity.  With the site monitor could to turn the fans on/off 
based upon ambient temperature or time of day?  If yes, how would I do that, a 
relay?  What kind of relay?  I don't have much experience with relays/Site 
Monitors, thanks.  Or is there some other obvious solution I'm missing?

Another idea is to use a Hyderon RG-11 Rain Sensor / 
Gauge<http://rainsensors.com/how-it-works/> to trigger the fans off for both 
dark (less than 2000 lux) and/or rain.  This seems pretty rad!

Thanks,
`S

Re: [AFMUG] Enclosure ventilation

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Oh my gosh Jamie! First off, not only is that photo completely in focus but 
there’s no Tecate in it- I doubt it’s yours.  Second that thing is the size of 
a refrigerator!  Our enclosures are tower-top mounted, about 1.6ft3.  How will 
you keep that cool?  Mini-split!

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 20:34
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Enclosure ventilation


I will share what we are installing tomorrow. We are building an outdoor 
panel with stainless steel enclosure...
On Apr 20, 2016 9:28 PM, "Scott Vander Dussen" 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
Fiberglass enclosure
Bud Industries 
IPV-1116<http://www.alliedelec.com/bud-industries-ipv-1116/70368864/> vents
Orion 
WMG60M<http://www.alliedelec.com/orion-knight-electronics-inc-wmg60m/70103693/> 
wire filters
60mm DC 
fan<http://www.rpelectronics.com/cfa246025ms-24vdc-sleeve-bearing-60mm-fan.html>
 with Locked Rotor Alarm Signal Output
60mm guard<http://www.rpelectronics.com/cfg-60m-60mm-metal-finger-guard.html>

The enclosure includes a Site Monitor, I'm hoping to use its secondary DC input 
to monitor the fan's yellow alarm wire lead and trigger an error state in our 
SNMP monitoring if a fan becomes locked.

I'm concerned about the fans running 24x7 potentially bringing in moisture from 
fog/nightly humidity.  With the site monitor could to turn the fans on/off 
based upon ambient temperature or time of day?  If yes, how would I do that, a 
relay?  What kind of relay?  I don't have much experience with relays/Site 
Monitors, thanks.  Or is there some other obvious solution I'm missing?

Another idea is to use a Hyderon RG-11 Rain Sensor / 
Gauge<http://rainsensors.com/how-it-works/> to trigger the fans off for both 
dark (less than 2000 lux) and/or rain.  This seems pretty rad!

Thanks,
`S

[AFMUG] Enclosure ventilation

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Fiberglass enclosure
Bud Industries 
IPV-1116 vents
Orion 
WMG60M 
wire filters
60mm DC 
fan
 with Locked Rotor Alarm Signal Output
60mm guard

The enclosure includes a Site Monitor, I'm hoping to use its secondary DC input 
to monitor the fan's yellow alarm wire lead and trigger an error state in our 
SNMP monitoring if a fan becomes locked.

I'm concerned about the fans running 24x7 potentially bringing in moisture from 
fog/nightly humidity.  With the site monitor could to turn the fans on/off 
based upon ambient temperature or time of day?  If yes, how would I do that, a 
relay?  What kind of relay?  I don't have much experience with relays/Site 
Monitors, thanks.  Or is there some other obvious solution I'm missing?

Another idea is to use a Hyderon RG-11 Rain Sensor / 
Gauge to trigger the fans off for both 
dark (less than 2000 lux) and/or rain.  This seems pretty rad!

Thanks,
`S

Re: [AFMUG] OT No Snowboarders at Alta

[Scott Vander Dussen]

I rode Taos the year after they opened it to snowboarders.  I wasn’t sure what 
to expect, everyone was totally cool about it except one yuppie who angled 
himself away from me while we rode the chair up and acted like I didn’t exist 
or have a soul.  Sorry to hear that same sentiment is prevalent on this list?  
I’m assuming it’s in jest..

Anyhow, Alta can pull it off because it’s surrounded by other mountains, Taos 
needed the business and needed to fit in with 2010.  Anyhow, my favorite riding 
partners are skiers because they tend to have more technical skill and speed.. 
haven’t met a skier I can’t keep up with.  (:

Peace out gapers!
`S

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Cameron Crum
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 12:55
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT No Snowboarders at Alta

Hear, hear! I was really bummed when Taos allowed snowboards a few years back. 
I always though of it as a pure skier mountain. They needed the business 
though. It's too remote to not take everyone. It's not like you can fly in 
there and be on the lift in 30 min like Alta...unless you fly yourself. Toas 
takes some time to get to...but it's worth it.



On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 2:28 PM, Chuck McCown 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
This is pretty much purely a Utah thing.  Has been going on for several years.
The protesters that have pushed the lawsuit were such whiners.
They claim discrimination.

Alta leases the mountain from the USFS.  They run a business.
They don’t allow you to take a sled or tube up and slide down.
Nor can you tow people up with a snowmobile to sled/ski/snowboard down.

Their business, their rules.  Kinda like wanting to use a jet ski in a water 
park.
They have a right to limit the types of recreational activities they will allow.

Lots of business lease federal ground.  Ranchers.  Perhaps a lawsuit ought to 
be drawn to force the ranchers to have a more diverse herd.  Too many angus, 
need some herefords in there.

A minority trying to force their wishes on everyone else.
Plenty of other hills for them to do what they want.
You only want what you can’t have I guess
I am glad that for once the court ruled that a business can conduct its 
business as it wishes.

From: Cameron Crum
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 1:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT No Snowboarders at Alta

They can bring their snowboard, they just can't ride the lift with it or strap 
it on their feet to slide down the hill.

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 2:01 PM, Chuck McCown 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
That’s OK as long as they don’t need to use the restroom...

From: Paul McCall
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 12:59 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT No Snowboarders at Alta

Unless they are transgender, LOL

Of if they “identify” as skier.

/stirring the pot initiliazed

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 10:02 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OT No Snowboarders at Alta

Gotta love the latest court ruling.
Alta is for skiers!

Re: [AFMUG] OT No Snowboarders at Alta

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Yes, very important to protect your kids from snowboarders! 
https://vimeo.com/9692428

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 10:34
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT No Snowboarders at Alta

They don’t respect the mountain, the experience, the others using the mountain.
And some of them are reckless.  You don’t want your little kids mixing with 
them.

From: That One Guy /sarcasm
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 10:38 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT No Snowboarders at Alta

ahh theyre uncouth

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 10:56 AM, Chuck McCown 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
It is like forcing a 5 star hotel to allow homeless folks sleep free in the 
lobby... or something like that  I dunno.
Or allowing burning man to happen inside the louvre.
Perhaps asking Tosh.0 to substitute for your preacher at church

Am I painting a picture here?

-Original Message- From: Jay Weekley
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 8:48 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT No Snowboarders at Alta


What is wrong with snow boarders?

Chuck McCown wrote:
Gotta love the latest court ruling.
Alta is for skiers!




--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Merchant services

[Scott Vander Dussen]

I'm sure we've had a chargeback at some point, but none that I can ever recall. 
We've had some issues in the past where IPPay changed some things on their side 
and had our funds delayed by a day (we process most everything on the first so 
it's a big deal of they're held up) and a few other minor issues here and 
there, but nothing huge.

This took place over two days while I was on vacation to further irritate me. I 
called Friday after T's email telling me that she would not process the 
transaction. I asked to speak to her supervisor. She was out that day and not 
back in until Friday. I tried to speak to T and she was out to lunch. I told 
the gal my customer service issue was going to result in them losing me as a 
customer that still there was no sup or person of authority I could speak with.

I asked for someone to call me back, presumably that will happen Monday. I 
wrote T one last time telling her that her actions were unacceptable and she 
never replied. And no, I haven't made any changes yet because I'm not even in 
the office yet :)

Thanks,
'S

Sent mobile!

On Apr 17, 2016, at 06:33, Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> 
wrote:

It sounds like you had a bad customer service experience, where their actions 
didn’t match their words.

I don’t use IPPay, but they are a small enough company you could call and talk 
to the guy in charge, I think that’s Brian Young?  Have you tried that?  I 
would expect them to train their reps to either say upfront no we can’t do 
that, or do what they say they will.

Also, they seem to offer a somewhat unique service geared to small monthly 
telecom service charges at fixed locations, resulting in low processing costs 
and features like not having to get new card numbers and expiration dates from 
the customer all the time.  Have you found another processor that is 
equivalent?  How much will your costs go up with another processor?

I would also ask how their customer service has been for more normal issues.  
Is this a one-time bad experience?  I know one of the frustrating things with 
my current processor is how they handle chargebacks.  The merchant is always 
wrong.  And if you challenge the chargeback, you are also always wrong, no 
matter what.  Even if the customer says their bank cancelled their card due to 
a fraud alert and charged back all transactions including legitimate recurring 
transactions.  How has IPPay been in situations like this, which occur in the 
normal course of business?


From: Scott Vander Dussen<mailto:sc...@velociter.net>
Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2016 11:26 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Merchant services

In my OP explanation message I cited my reason for leaving, and it's not what 
you've cited here... But whatever!

Thanks,
'S

Sent mobile!

On Apr 16, 2016, at 16:56, Chuck Hogg 
mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com>> wrote:

Um, so if you don't seewhy this isn't allowed, I don't know what to say.  And 
to quit a processor over running an unnatural charge that wasn't a normal part 
of your charge history is crazy.  I bet they tried to help you and thats why 
the runnaround only to be told by their bank that its a no-no.  Its also in 
most merchant agreements.



On Saturday, April 16, 2016, Jason McKemie 
mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>> 
wrote:
I would have done the same thing.

On Saturday, April 16, 2016, Jeremy 
 wrote:
Sorry, but this is a ridiculous reason to leave IPPay.  Also, it is a grey area 
when it comes to legality.

On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 8:55 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
 wrote:
ther may be ftc regulations that would create a criminal liability for 
processors allowing kiting

On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 8:05 PM, Tyson @ Internet Communications Inc (ICI) 
 wrote:
My 2 cents:

Who cares! The merchant gets their damn money.  Unless you have some kind of 
charge back history, it's stupid.   The only thing I will say, as an outsider, 
if you did it for the rewards perk...why?

Doesn't the reward get off set by the merchant fees?  It's a wash.

If the intent was for something else, it's really none of their business.  They 
make money.

Disclaimer:  I don't use them

Tyson Burris, President
Internet Communications Inc.
739 Commerce Dr.
Franklin, IN 46131

317-738-0320 Daytime #
317-412-1540 Cell/Direct #
Online: www.surfici.net

Forgive the brevity, the typos and my fat fingers!

On Apr 15, 2016, at 4:43 PM, Scott Vander Dussen  wrote:

I’ve received a few off-list request for my story and a couple here on-list.  I 
don’t mind sharing, I just didn’t want to come out with a rant about IPPay 
because that wasn’t my goal.  I share this experience because I really value 
this list and the contributions made by all you wonderful people.  Few things 
have shaped my business and been as valuable of a resource as this list 
(beginning as Part-15.org<http://

Re: [AFMUG] Merchant services

[Scott Vander Dussen]

With all due respect, no you still didn't "get it"; but neither is it important 
that you do.  So I'm going to drop this aspect of the discussion it here.  :)

Thanks,
'S

Sent mobile!

On Apr 17, 2016, at 06:26, Chuck Hogg 
mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com>> wrote:

So, the issue, is that they enforced policy that they originally thought they 
could try to let you slide on.  IPPay has no control over VISA/MC/AMEX, so when 
they say no, it's their fault.  Got it.  I'll bow out of this one, because I 
fail to see the logic of breaking the rules, getting caught, they tried to 
help, and then they couldn't process the transaction.  Now you quit doing 
business with them over a non-business related transaction.  I've worked with 
probably 15 different merchant processors over the last 20 years, and none of 
them have ever allowed this.  I wouldn't quit a company that wouldn't help me 
break card processing rules, even if they originallly tried to help me break 
them.




On Sunday, April 17, 2016, Jason McKemie 
mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>> 
wrote:
The issue is how it was handled.

On Saturday, April 16, 2016, Chuck Hogg 
> wrote:
Um, so if you don't seewhy this isn't allowed, I don't know what to say.  And 
to quit a processor over running an unnatural charge that wasn't a normal part 
of your charge history is crazy.  I bet they tried to help you and thats why 
the runnaround only to be told by their bank that its a no-no.  Its also in 
most merchant agreements.



On Saturday, April 16, 2016, Jason McKemie  
wrote:
I would have done the same thing.

On Saturday, April 16, 2016, Jeremy  wrote:
Sorry, but this is a ridiculous reason to leave IPPay.  Also, it is a grey area 
when it comes to legality.

On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 8:55 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
 wrote:
ther may be ftc regulations that would create a criminal liability for 
processors allowing kiting

On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 8:05 PM, Tyson @ Internet Communications Inc (ICI) 
 wrote:
My 2 cents:

Who cares! The merchant gets their damn money.  Unless you have some kind of 
charge back history, it's stupid.   The only thing I will say, as an outsider, 
if you did it for the rewards perk...why?

Doesn't the reward get off set by the merchant fees?  It's a wash.

If the intent was for something else, it's really none of their business.  They 
make money.

Disclaimer:  I don't use them

Tyson Burris, President
Internet Communications Inc.
739 Commerce Dr.
Franklin, IN 46131

317-738-0320 Daytime #
317-412-1540 Cell/Direct #
Online: www.surfici.net

Forgive the brevity, the typos and my fat fingers!

On Apr 15, 2016, at 4:43 PM, Scott Vander Dussen  wrote:

I’ve received a few off-list request for my story and a couple here on-list.  I 
don’t mind sharing, I just didn’t want to come out with a rant about IPPay 
because that wasn’t my goal.  I share this experience because I really value 
this list and the contributions made by all you wonderful people.  Few things 
have shaped my business and been as valuable of a resource as this list 
(beginning as Part-15.org<http://part-15.org> to current), so thank you 
everyone!  (:  Part of that awesomeness is sometimes sharing the less than 
stellar experiences we face, here’s mine with IP Pay.

1. I wanted to make a purchase that was not eligible for a CC payment and get 
the cash back rewards

2. I contacted Cap1 and asked if I could use one of those blank “courtesy 
checks” they send out to write to myself and basically get a cash advance plus 
then get the cash back rewards. They said no problem, but the checks are exempt 
from cash back rewards.

3. I asked if I as a business could run my own card into my own bank account 
for the cash rewards.  She said no problem, I asked her to research the Cap 1 
Visa ToS to verify, she did and again no problem.  I then asked her to triple 
verify by confirming with her supervisor, and again no problem.  They said if 
you have that resource to process your own card and you’re paying your minimum 
balances etc. it’s a non-issue.

4. I researched “Credit Card Kiting” which is the process of paying a credit 
card balance with another credit card- the practice is only a problem when 
there is deception involved.  Even the Wikipedia article demonstrates its OK 
when there is not deception.  And this isn’t even kiting, it’s just processing 
a credit card for cash in the bank.

5. We process a card for $20k

6. Tanya Krapil from IPPay halts the transaction,  holds the funds and emails 
me asking if it’s legit.  (lost a whole day of expected funds because of this)

7. I reply it’s legit.

8. Tayan demands invoices and “documentation” before she will release the funds.

9. I reply: “We don't share our invoices with parties not involved with the 
transaction, that is not only a breach of confidentiality but inappropriate for 
you to ask. While I ca

Re: [AFMUG] Merchant services

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Yup agree with all this. I first experienced this concept of a company standing 
by their representations even when it means them "eating it" was from an Apple 
Store.  One of the employees shared with me how important it was for them not 
to rescind a promise or pledge. The total cost to the company covering a screw 
up is ultimately more profitable than saving a few bucks at the cost of 
customer service and losing a customer.

Thanks,
`S

---
Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.

On Apr 16, 2016, at 21:51, That One Guy /sarcasm 
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:

It sounds to me like the issue has little to do with whether IP Pay wanted to 
do the transaction or not. It has to do with the fact they promised to do it, 
then rescinded that promise, creating a serious operational rift.

Personally, it sounds like Scott was trying to nickel and dime some extra cash 
flow, but attitudes of superiority aside, an extra nickel, or an extra dime, is 
an extra nickel or dime.

the problem arose when the dishonesty took place on the part of IP Pay.

it doesnt matter whether what scott was doing was right or wrong, once a 
business commits to something, they need to do it.

It doesnt matter if the story was Scott was going to trade crack for heroin, 
and the heroin dealer said hed give him back 5% of the crack on the 
transaction. Once the word was given, it would be a matter of principle that 
the word be abided by, and in this case, it was not.

any company, who allows its representatives to not stand by their word (given 
on behalf of the company) is not worth dealing with. It could be a matter that 
this sheila decided to allow the transaction, and it was her supervisor who 
made the decision not to allow it, but the reality is, the coos should not be 
in a position where she is allowed to communicate decisions to customers she is 
not allowed to make if this is the case. Once a representative of a company 
makes a commitment on the behalf of the company, unless they are going to 
terminate the employee, that commitment needs to be adhered to.

If I were scott, Id do something very simple to determine my relationship with 
said company. Id call and ask to speak with that sheila, if the call is 
transferred to her, then the relationship is done


On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 11:26 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
In my OP explanation message I cited my reason for leaving, and it's not what 
you've cited here... But whatever!

Thanks,
'S

Sent mobile!

On Apr 16, 2016, at 16:56, Chuck Hogg 
mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com>> wrote:

Um, so if you don't seewhy this isn't allowed, I don't know what to say.  And 
to quit a processor over running an unnatural charge that wasn't a normal part 
of your charge history is crazy.  I bet they tried to help you and thats why 
the runnaround only to be told by their bank that its a no-no.  Its also in 
most merchant agreements.



On Saturday, April 16, 2016, Jason McKemie 
mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>> 
wrote:
I would have done the same thing.

On Saturday, April 16, 2016, Jeremy  wrote:
Sorry, but this is a ridiculous reason to leave IPPay.  Also, it is a grey area 
when it comes to legality.

On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 8:55 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
 wrote:
ther may be ftc regulations that would create a criminal liability for 
processors allowing kiting

On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 8:05 PM, Tyson @ Internet Communications Inc (ICI) 
 wrote:
My 2 cents:

Who cares! The merchant gets their damn money.  Unless you have some kind of 
charge back history, it's stupid.   The only thing I will say, as an outsider, 
if you did it for the rewards perk...why?

Doesn't the reward get off set by the merchant fees?  It's a wash.

If the intent was for something else, it's really none of their business.  They 
make money.

Disclaimer:  I don't use them

Tyson Burris, President
Internet Communications Inc.
739 Commerce Dr.
Franklin, IN 46131

317-738-0320 Daytime #
317-412-1540 Cell/Direct #
Online: www.surfici.net

Forgive the brevity, the typos and my fat fingers!

On Apr 15, 2016, at 4:43 PM, Scott Vander Dussen  wrote:

I’ve received a few off-list request for my story and a couple here on-list.  I 
don’t mind sharing, I just didn’t want to come out with a rant about IPPay 
because that wasn’t my goal.  I share this experience because I really value 
this list and the contributions made by all you wonderful people.  Few things 
have shaped my business and been as valuable of a resource as this list 
(beginning as Part-15.org<http://part-15.org> to current), so thank you 
everyone!  (:  Part of that awesomeness is sometimes sharing the less than 
stellar experiences we face, here’s mine with IP Pay.

1. I wanted to make a purchase that was not eligible for a CC payment and get 
the cash back rewards

2. I contacted Cap1 and asked if I could use one of those b

Re: [AFMUG] Merchant services

[Scott Vander Dussen]

In my OP explanation message I cited my reason for leaving, and it's not what 
you've cited here... But whatever!

Thanks,
'S

Sent mobile!

On Apr 16, 2016, at 16:56, Chuck Hogg 
mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com>> wrote:

Um, so if you don't seewhy this isn't allowed, I don't know what to say.  And 
to quit a processor over running an unnatural charge that wasn't a normal part 
of your charge history is crazy.  I bet they tried to help you and thats why 
the runnaround only to be told by their bank that its a no-no.  Its also in 
most merchant agreements.



On Saturday, April 16, 2016, Jason McKemie 
mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>> 
wrote:
I would have done the same thing.

On Saturday, April 16, 2016, Jeremy 
>
 wrote:
Sorry, but this is a ridiculous reason to leave IPPay.  Also, it is a grey area 
when it comes to legality.

On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 8:55 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
 wrote:
ther may be ftc regulations that would create a criminal liability for 
processors allowing kiting

On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 8:05 PM, Tyson @ Internet Communications Inc (ICI) 
 wrote:
My 2 cents:

Who cares! The merchant gets their damn money.  Unless you have some kind of 
charge back history, it's stupid.   The only thing I will say, as an outsider, 
if you did it for the rewards perk...why?

Doesn't the reward get off set by the merchant fees?  It's a wash.

If the intent was for something else, it's really none of their business.  They 
make money.

Disclaimer:  I don't use them

Tyson Burris, President
Internet Communications Inc.
739 Commerce Dr.
Franklin, IN 46131

317-738-0320 Daytime #
317-412-1540 Cell/Direct #
Online: www.surfici.net

Forgive the brevity, the typos and my fat fingers!

On Apr 15, 2016, at 4:43 PM, Scott Vander Dussen  wrote:

I’ve received a few off-list request for my story and a couple here on-list.  I 
don’t mind sharing, I just didn’t want to come out with a rant about IPPay 
because that wasn’t my goal.  I share this experience because I really value 
this list and the contributions made by all you wonderful people.  Few things 
have shaped my business and been as valuable of a resource as this list 
(beginning as Part-15.org<http://part-15.org> to current), so thank you 
everyone!  (:  Part of that awesomeness is sometimes sharing the less than 
stellar experiences we face, here’s mine with IP Pay.

1. I wanted to make a purchase that was not eligible for a CC payment and get 
the cash back rewards

2. I contacted Cap1 and asked if I could use one of those blank “courtesy 
checks” they send out to write to myself and basically get a cash advance plus 
then get the cash back rewards. They said no problem, but the checks are exempt 
from cash back rewards.

3. I asked if I as a business could run my own card into my own bank account 
for the cash rewards.  She said no problem, I asked her to research the Cap 1 
Visa ToS to verify, she did and again no problem.  I then asked her to triple 
verify by confirming with her supervisor, and again no problem.  They said if 
you have that resource to process your own card and you’re paying your minimum 
balances etc. it’s a non-issue.

4. I researched “Credit Card Kiting” which is the process of paying a credit 
card balance with another credit card- the practice is only a problem when 
there is deception involved.  Even the Wikipedia article demonstrates its OK 
when there is not deception.  And this isn’t even kiting, it’s just processing 
a credit card for cash in the bank.

5. We process a card for $20k

6. Tanya Krapil from IPPay halts the transaction,  holds the funds and emails 
me asking if it’s legit.  (lost a whole day of expected funds because of this)

7. I reply it’s legit.

8. Tayan demands invoices and “documentation” before she will release the funds.

9. I reply: “We don't share our invoices with parties not involved with the 
transaction, that is not only a breach of confidentiality but inappropriate for 
you to ask. While I can appreciate your concern for fraud I have, as the CEO of 
Velociter, already confirmed the legitimacy of this transaction. If at this 
time you are cause further delays in processing this transaction then I will 
consider your actions as unreasonable non-performance and a termination of our 
long standing business relationship.”

10. Tayna the replies that she will process this transaction.

11. Subsequently Tayna spoke telephonically with other staff and determined the 
card was employee owned.  Tayna said she’d process the payment but it isn’t a 
kosher practice.

12. Tayna then emails me to tell me just kidding, she’s not going to process 
the payment after all. (losing yet another day of expected funds)

My grief is that on a $20k tag Tayna doesn’t bother to pick up the phone and 
call, just arbitrarily held the funds and sent an email.  Then she said two 
times that she would indeed process the payment only to 

Re: [AFMUG] Merchant services

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Just not getting the logic why they wouldn't want to process a $20k charge, why 
does the merchant care?  Have they created a model where they're losing money?

Thanks,
`S

---
Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.

On Apr 15, 2016, at 16:10, Sterling Jacobson 
mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:

Yeah, nice trick, but not surprised IPPay handled it that way.

The way I use IPPay its really expected a bunch of low monthly charges.

$20k charge on my own card for rewards? Probably not something the merchants or 
card company cares for.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Friday, April 15, 2016 4:54 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Merchant services


This seems like it was a lot of work and issues and headaches (phone calls 
getting pre-auths, then calling again to double check, etc) all to get cashback 
rewards that probably equated to less than $400. Your time should be worth more 
than that as the CEO of a company.



Travis



On 4/15/2016 2:43 PM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote:
I’ve received a few off-list request for my story and a couple here on-list.  I 
don’t mind sharing, I just didn’t want to come out with a rant about IPPay 
because that wasn’t my goal.  I share this experience because I really value 
this list and the contributions made by all you wonderful people.  Few things 
have shaped my business and been as valuable of a resource as this list 
(beginning as Part-15.org<http://part-15.org> to current), so thank you 
everyone!  (:  Part of that awesomeness is sometimes sharing the less than 
stellar experiences we face, here’s mine with IP Pay.

1. I wanted to make a purchase that was not eligible for a CC payment and get 
the cash back rewards

2. I contacted Cap1 and asked if I could use one of those blank “courtesy 
checks” they send out to write to myself and basically get a cash advance plus 
then get the cash back rewards. They said no problem, but the checks are exempt 
from cash back rewards.

3. I asked if I as a business could run my own card into my own bank account 
for the cash rewards.  She said no problem, I asked her to research the Cap 1 
Visa ToS to verify, she did and again no problem.  I then asked her to triple 
verify by confirming with her supervisor, and again no problem.  They said if 
you have that resource to process your own card and you’re paying your minimum 
balances etc. it’s a non-issue.

4. I researched “Credit Card Kiting” which is the process of paying a credit 
card balance with another credit card- the practice is only a problem when 
there is deception involved.  Even the Wikipedia article demonstrates its OK 
when there is not deception.  And this isn’t even kiting, it’s just processing 
a credit card for cash in the bank.

5. We process a card for $20k

6. Tanya Krapil from IPPay halts the transaction,  holds the funds and emails 
me asking if it’s legit.  (lost a whole day of expected funds because of this)

7. I reply it’s legit.

8. Tayan demands invoices and “documentation” before she will release the funds.

9. I reply: “We don't share our invoices with parties not involved with the 
transaction, that is not only a breach of confidentiality but inappropriate for 
you to ask. While I can appreciate your concern for fraud I have, as the CEO of 
Velociter, already confirmed the legitimacy of this transaction. If at this 
time you are cause further delays in processing this transaction then I will 
consider your actions as unreasonable non-performance and a termination of our 
long standing business relationship.”

10. Tayna the replies that she will process this transaction.

11. Subsequently Tayna spoke telephonically with other staff and determined the 
card was employee owned.  Tayna said she’d process the payment but it isn’t a 
kosher practice.

12. Tayna then emails me to tell me just kidding, she’s not going to process 
the payment after all. (losing yet another day of expected funds)

My grief is that on a $20k tag Tayna doesn’t bother to pick up the phone and 
call, just arbitrarily held the funds and sent an email.  Then she said two 
times that she would indeed process the payment only to then change her mind 
later.  It’s horrible customer service to say one thing and then not honor it, 
even if you made a mistake.  I’m particularly bothered by her asking for 
“invoices and documentation” to support the charge; the US in particular is 
getting so used to sacrificing our privacy and freedoms.  Tayna is demanding I 
send over information that completely out of her sphere of concern.

Tayna is citing that it’s a Visa policy not process your own card, but has 
provided no documentation to support that.  There is no deception involved, we 
called and pre-authorized the transaction with Cap1 on a recorded call and Cap1 
gave their blessing.  I contract with IPPay to process the CC cards I enter, 
nothing more.  Even if there is some obscure Visa ToS tha

Re: [AFMUG] Merchant services

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Yeah, the initial call to Cap1 was not so much a pre auth as verifying this was 
OK with their ToS.

Thanks,
`S

---
Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.

On Apr 15, 2016, at 15:56, Travis Johnson mailto:t...@ida.net>> 
wrote:


This seems like it was a lot of work and issues and headaches (phone calls 
getting pre-auths, then calling again to double check, etc) all to get cashback 
rewards that probably equated to less than $400. Your time should be worth more 
than that as the CEO of a company.


Travis


On 4/15/2016 2:43 PM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote:
I’ve received a few off-list request for my story and a couple here on-list.  I 
don’t mind sharing, I just didn’t want to come out with a rant about IPPay 
because that wasn’t my goal.  I share this experience because I really value 
this list and the contributions made by all you wonderful people.  Few things 
have shaped my business and been as valuable of a resource as this list 
(beginning as Part-15.org<http://part-15.org> to current), so thank you 
everyone!  (:  Part of that awesomeness is sometimes sharing the less than 
stellar experiences we face, here’s mine with IP Pay.

1. I wanted to make a purchase that was not eligible for a CC payment and get 
the cash back rewards

2. I contacted Cap1 and asked if I could use one of those blank “courtesy 
checks” they send out to write to myself and basically get a cash advance plus 
then get the cash back rewards. They said no problem, but the checks are exempt 
from cash back rewards.

3. I asked if I as a business could run my own card into my own bank account 
for the cash rewards.  She said no problem, I asked her to research the Cap 1 
Visa ToS to verify, she did and again no problem.  I then asked her to triple 
verify by confirming with her supervisor, and again no problem.  They said if 
you have that resource to process your own card and you’re paying your minimum 
balances etc. it’s a non-issue.

4. I researched “Credit Card Kiting” which is the process of paying a credit 
card balance with another credit card- the practice is only a problem when 
there is deception involved.  Even the Wikipedia article demonstrates its OK 
when there is not deception.  And this isn’t even kiting, it’s just processing 
a credit card for cash in the bank.

5. We process a card for $20k

6. Tanya Krapil from IPPay halts the transaction,  holds the funds and emails 
me asking if it’s legit.  (lost a whole day of expected funds because of this)

7. I reply it’s legit.

8. Tayan demands invoices and “documentation” before she will release the funds.

9. I reply: “We don't share our invoices with parties not involved with the 
transaction, that is not only a breach of confidentiality but inappropriate for 
you to ask. While I can appreciate your concern for fraud I have, as the CEO of 
Velociter, already confirmed the legitimacy of this transaction. If at this 
time you are cause further delays in processing this transaction then I will 
consider your actions as unreasonable non-performance and a termination of our 
long standing business relationship.”

10. Tayna the replies that she will process this transaction.

11. Subsequently Tayna spoke telephonically with other staff and determined the 
card was employee owned.  Tayna said she’d process the payment but it isn’t a 
kosher practice.

12. Tayna then emails me to tell me just kidding, she’s not going to process 
the payment after all. (losing yet another day of expected funds)

My grief is that on a $20k tag Tayna doesn’t bother to pick up the phone and 
call, just arbitrarily held the funds and sent an email.  Then she said two 
times that she would indeed process the payment only to then change her mind 
later.  It’s horrible customer service to say one thing and then not honor it, 
even if you made a mistake.  I’m particularly bothered by her asking for 
“invoices and documentation” to support the charge; the US in particular is 
getting so used to sacrificing our privacy and freedoms.  Tayna is demanding I 
send over information that completely out of her sphere of concern.

Tayna is citing that it’s a Visa policy not process your own card, but has 
provided no documentation to support that.  There is no deception involved, we 
called and pre-authorized the transaction with Cap1 on a recorded call and Cap1 
gave their blessing.  I contract with IPPay to process the CC cards I enter, 
nothing more.  Even if there is some obscure Visa ToS that prohibits this 
transaction for this specific reason (this is *not* credit card kiting) Tayna’s 
lack of professionalism and the subsequent headache it’s caused me finished my 
company’s business relationship with IPPay.  And I would greatly question who 
is the enforcement of Visa’s ToS, the merchant or the issuing bank.  I’d lean 
heavily towards the issuing bank.

Anyhow, thanks for the feedback and suggestions of other merchants.

Scott

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Se

Re: [AFMUG] Merchant services

[Scott Vander Dussen]

It's not the alarm from IP Pay that was an issue, it's how it was handled. Out 
of 10's of 1,000's of transactions from multiple companies I've never had the 
processor act in this way, the ISSUING BANK yes, but not the processor. Just to 
clarify, the issuing bank who's money was being processed, they were ok with it.

Thanks,
`S

---
Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.

On Apr 15, 2016, at 14:59, Eric Kuhnke 
mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>> wrote:


I really don't see how paying yourself $20k with your own card is NOT going to 
set off all sorts of automated fraud alerts. This is what any responsible card 
processor would do.

On Apr 15, 2016 1:43 PM, "Scott Vander Dussen" 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
I’ve received a few off-list request for my story and a couple here on-list.  I 
don’t mind sharing, I just didn’t want to come out with a rant about IPPay 
because that wasn’t my goal.  I share this experience because I really value 
this list and the contributions made by all you wonderful people.  Few things 
have shaped my business and been as valuable of a resource as this list 
(beginning as Part-15.org<http://part-15.org> to current), so thank you 
everyone!  (:  Part of that awesomeness is sometimes sharing the less than 
stellar experiences we face, here’s mine with IP Pay.

1. I wanted to make a purchase that was not eligible for a CC payment and get 
the cash back rewards

2. I contacted Cap1 and asked if I could use one of those blank “courtesy 
checks” they send out to write to myself and basically get a cash advance plus 
then get the cash back rewards. They said no problem, but the checks are exempt 
from cash back rewards.

3. I asked if I as a business could run my own card into my own bank account 
for the cash rewards.  She said no problem, I asked her to research the Cap 1 
Visa ToS to verify, she did and again no problem.  I then asked her to triple 
verify by confirming with her supervisor, and again no problem.  They said if 
you have that resource to process your own card and you’re paying your minimum 
balances etc. it’s a non-issue.

4. I researched “Credit Card Kiting” which is the process of paying a credit 
card balance with another credit card- the practice is only a problem when 
there is deception involved.  Even the Wikipedia article demonstrates its OK 
when there is not deception.  And this isn’t even kiting, it’s just processing 
a credit card for cash in the bank.

5. We process a card for $20k

6. Tanya Krapil from IPPay halts the transaction,  holds the funds and emails 
me asking if it’s legit.  (lost a whole day of expected funds because of this)

7. I reply it’s legit.

8. Tayan demands invoices and “documentation” before she will release the funds.

9. I reply: “We don't share our invoices with parties not involved with the 
transaction, that is not only a breach of confidentiality but inappropriate for 
you to ask. While I can appreciate your concern for fraud I have, as the CEO of 
Velociter, already confirmed the legitimacy of this transaction. If at this 
time you are cause further delays in processing this transaction then I will 
consider your actions as unreasonable non-performance and a termination of our 
long standing business relationship.”

10. Tayna the replies that she will process this transaction.

11. Subsequently Tayna spoke telephonically with other staff and determined the 
card was employee owned.  Tayna said she’d process the payment but it isn’t a 
kosher practice.

12. Tayna then emails me to tell me just kidding, she’s not going to process 
the payment after all. (losing yet another day of expected funds)

My grief is that on a $20k tag Tayna doesn’t bother to pick up the phone and 
call, just arbitrarily held the funds and sent an email.  Then she said two 
times that she would indeed process the payment only to then change her mind 
later.  It’s horrible customer service to say one thing and then not honor it, 
even if you made a mistake.  I’m particularly bothered by her asking for 
“invoices and documentation” to support the charge; the US in particular is 
getting so used to sacrificing our privacy and freedoms.  Tayna is demanding I 
send over information that completely out of her sphere of concern.

Tayna is citing that it’s a Visa policy not process your own card, but has 
provided no documentation to support that.  There is no deception involved, we 
called and pre-authorized the transaction with Cap1 on a recorded call and Cap1 
gave their blessing.  I contract with IPPay to process the CC cards I enter, 
nothing more.  Even if there is some obscure Visa ToS that prohibits this 
transaction for this specific reason (this is *not* credit card kiting) Tayna’s 
lack of professionalism and the subsequent headache it’s caused me finished my 
company’s business relationship with IPPay.  And I would greatly question who 
is the enforcement of Visa’s ToS, the merch

Re: [AFMUG] Merchant services

[Scott Vander Dussen]

 Exchange<http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

From: "Jason Wilson" 
mailto:ja...@remotelylocated.com>>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Friday, April 15, 2016 1:22:03 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Merchant services
Scott, I am an IPPay client,  email privately your decision to move.

Jason

[http://remotelylocated.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/cropped-Remotely-Located-Logo.jpg]
Jason Wilson
Remotely Located
Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
530-651-1736
530-748-9608 Cell
www.remotelylocated.com<http://www.remotelylocated.com>

On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 11:08 AM, Josh Reynolds 
mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>> wrote:
Authorize.net?

On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 1:02 PM, Scott Vander Dussen
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
> Without all the nasty details, I'm completely done doing business with IPPay. 
> Any recommendations for alternatives?
>
> Thanks,
> 'S
>
> Sent mobile!

[AFMUG] Merchant services

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Without all the nasty details, I'm completely done doing business with IPPay. 
Any recommendations for alternatives?

Thanks,
'S

Sent mobile!

Re: [AFMUG] 9 sectors @ 40*

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Is that a FM horn right below the APs?

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sean Heskett
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 20:51
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 9 sectors @ 40*

Even at 60*its possible ;)

-Sean

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
450 APs, 9x 40* sectors.  Is ABCABCABC channel reuse realistic?

Thanks,
Scott

Re: [AFMUG] 9 sectors @ 40*

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Awesome, thanks!

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Craig House
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2016 3:38 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 9 sectors @ 40*

We have done it and we actually did it with 60° sectors allowing for a bit of 
overlap on each sector about 10° on each edge still seem to work fine

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 6, 2016, at 17:20, Scott Vander Dussen  wrote:
> 
> 450 APs, 9x 40* sectors.  Is ABCABCABC channel reuse realistic?
> 
> Thanks,
> Scott

[AFMUG] 9 sectors @ 40*

[Scott Vander Dussen]

450 APs, 9x 40* sectors.  Is ABCABCABC channel reuse realistic?

Thanks,
Scott

Re: [AFMUG] I fried 6 APs and all I got was this stupid t-shirt

[Scott Vander Dussen]

We'll check the SI ports after a complete power cycle. We tested 3/6 of the APs 
and they're not powering up. I figured the APs VR smoked and shorted the SI 
power portion of its port.

Thanks,
`S

---
Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.

On Mar 10, 2016, at 14:29, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
mailto:li...@packetflux.com>> wrote:


Ummm. ..  probably not.

The ports probably shut down in response to the overcurrent caused by the 
overvoltage.

You'll just need to remove power completely from the injector and re power it.  
This means both the power and the site monitor port.

Just curious,  are you sure those aps are dead?   I know some devices have 
overvoltage protection and if that tripped, the injector may have shut down 
fast enough to save the label.

On Mar 10, 2016 2:30 PM, "Scott Vander Dussen" 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
96.3% of customers restored!   (:

Incidentally, when the FSK APs received 48v and fried, they also fried their 
corresponding SyncInjector port.  :/

Re: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Well, we powered several 450 APs this morning off 48v for about 3 hours :)

Thanks,
`S

---
Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.

On Mar 10, 2016, at 16:36, George Skorup 
mailto:geo...@cbcast.com>> wrote:

At one time, there was a roadmap slide that stated 48V support for the 450 AP. 
Long, long before the 450i was ever mentioned. So I wonder if the hardware 
supports 22-56V, but they tell us that it's just the 29.5 standard.

Matt, Aaron, someone.. what's the deal? If the regular 450 AP will indeed run 
fine at 48-56V, that would really simplify a lot. Like I can downsize some 
DC-DC converters.

On 3/10/2016 1:38 PM, Josh Baird wrote:
Good point.  We don't use hardly any 450.. but the spec sheet does indeed say 
22-32VDC.

On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 2:20 PM, George Skorup 
mailto:geo...@cbcast.com>> wrote:
So if I'm reading this correctly... regular 450 APs are being powered and 
running happily at 48VDC? That's funny because they're also supposed to be 
30VDC max.

On 3/10/2016 11:45 AM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote:
You know what's funny is we did... But every time we tested we happened to grab 
450 since that's almost exclusively what were installing now. One time one of 
the techs put a FSK SM on it and it died- he mentioned it in passing but we 
chalked it up to bad FSK taken from our graveyard bin on pulls. ��

Thanks,
`S

---
Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.

On Mar 10, 2016, at 09:34, Josh Luthman 
<<mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>j...@imaginenetworksllc.com<mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>
 wrote:


That's awesome.  Glad it's not too bad.

Next time lab it :)

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mar 10, 2016 12:31 PM, "Scott Vander Dussen" 
<<mailto:sc...@velociter.net>sc...@velociter.net<mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> 
wrote:
As an update, we scrounged up 4 connectorized APs of our own and Bill Prince 
has 2 which I'm driving out to go get.  Paul McCall is also connectorized and 
shipping me some for spares.  Love this list, thanks guys!  We'll have 80% of 
the customers restored within 90 minutes, the rest this afternoon.

Whew, fun morning.


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 8:07 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?

Or, if Cambium was nice, they could give you code to convert an SM into an AP.

-Original Message-
From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 9:05 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?

If you are good with an iron, you could remove the regulator chip from an SM 
and replace it into the AP (assuming it is the regulator that dies from 
overvoltage).

-Original Message-
From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 9:05 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?

He might could do an advance replacement...

-Original Message-
From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 9:04 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?

Paul McCall can probably fix those APs.

-Original Message-
From: Christopher Tyler
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 9:03 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?

Live an learn. At least you'll never do it again (hopefully).

--
Christopher Tyler
MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE
Total Highspeed Internet Services
417.851.1107

- Original Message -
From: "Chuck McCown" 
<<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>ch...@wbmfg.com<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 10:02:07 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?

We all just shed a collective tear...

At least tomorrow is Friday, right?
Spring his here!
Jaime is bound to put some photos of good food on the list.
Plenty of reasons to continue to live Scott.

From: Scott Vander Dussen
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 8:58 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?

Oh wow, that’s fairly misleading.  So I just smoked a ring of FSK.



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of Josh Baird
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 7:56 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?



Yeah, the SI's take up to ~60V, but they output what you feed them.  If you 
feed them 48V, they output 48V.  They do not have internal DC/DC converters 
unless I completely missed a new product announcement from Forrest (but, I 
don't see this product on the website).



On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 10:55 AM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>>
wrote:

Re: [AFMUG] I fried 6 APs and all I got was this stupid t-shirt

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Yeah, it was from the “FSK power problem?” thread earlier this morning.. I 
changed out a 24V power supply with a 48v rectifier.  I thought because the 
SyncInjectors accepts up to 56V that it would step the voltage down to 24V, 
didn’t realize they were just passive in/out same voltage.  Anyhow, zapped a 
ring of FSKs in the process.  :/

`S

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 1:36 PM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] I fried 6 APs and all I got was this stupid t-shirt


Yikes... how did you manage that?
On Mar 10, 2016 2:30 PM, "Scott Vander Dussen" 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
96.3% of customers restored!   (:

Incidentally, when the FSK APs received 48v and fried, they also fried their 
corresponding SyncInjector port.  :/

[AFMUG] I fried 6 APs and all I got was this stupid t-shirt

[Scott Vander Dussen]

96.3% of customers restored!   (:

Incidentally, when the FSK APs received 48v and fried, they also fried their 
corresponding SyncInjector port.  :/

Re: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?

[Scott Vander Dussen]

You know what's funny is we did... But every time we tested we happened to grab 
450 since that's almost exclusively what were installing now. One time one of 
the techs put a FSK SM on it and it died- he mentioned it in passing but we 
chalked it up to bad FSK taken from our graveyard bin on pulls. ?

Thanks,
`S

---
Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.

On Mar 10, 2016, at 09:34, Josh Luthman 
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:


That's awesome.  Glad it's not too bad.

Next time lab it :)

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mar 10, 2016 12:31 PM, "Scott Vander Dussen" 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
As an update, we scrounged up 4 connectorized APs of our own and Bill Prince 
has 2 which I'm driving out to go get.  Paul McCall is also connectorized and 
shipping me some for spares.  Love this list, thanks guys!  We'll have 80% of 
the customers restored within 90 minutes, the rest this afternoon.

Whew, fun morning.


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 8:07 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?

Or, if Cambium was nice, they could give you code to convert an SM into an AP.

-Original Message-
From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 9:05 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?

If you are good with an iron, you could remove the regulator chip from an SM 
and replace it into the AP (assuming it is the regulator that dies from 
overvoltage).

-Original Message-
From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 9:05 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?

He might could do an advance replacement...

-Original Message-
From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 9:04 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?

Paul McCall can probably fix those APs.

-Original Message-
From: Christopher Tyler
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 9:03 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?

Live an learn. At least you'll never do it again (hopefully).

--
Christopher Tyler
MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE
Total Highspeed Internet Services
417.851.1107

- Original Message -
From: "Chuck McCown" mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 10:02:07 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?

We all just shed a collective tear...

At least tomorrow is Friday, right?
Spring his here!
Jaime is bound to put some photos of good food on the list.
Plenty of reasons to continue to live Scott.

From: Scott Vander Dussen
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 8:58 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?

Oh wow, that's fairly misleading.  So I just smoked a ring of FSK.



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of Josh Baird
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 7:56 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?



Yeah, the SI's take up to ~60V, but they output what you feed them.  If you 
feed them 48V, they output 48V.  They do not have internal DC/DC converters 
unless I completely missed a new product announcement from Forrest (but, I 
don't see this product on the website).



On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 10:55 AM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>>
wrote:



  Thanks,

  `S



  ---

  Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.


  On Mar 10, 2016, at 07:53, Josh Baird 
mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>> wrote:

    I haven't heard of this magical SyncInjector with a built in DC-DC 
converter that you speak of!



On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 10:48 AM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:

  Yes, but we're using SyncInjector version IO which allows 24-56VDC input 
and regulates that back down to 24VDC for the radios.

  -Original Message-
  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On 
Behalf Of Chuck McCown
  Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 7:39 AM
  To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?

      Dumb question:
  You know the FSK have an absolute max input voltage of 30 VDC with the 
smoke exit voltage around 36 VDC, right?

  -Original Message-
  From: Scott Vander Dussen
  Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 8:34 AM
  To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
  Subject: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?

  We just changed out a 24vdc 20A AC/DC power supply with a 48vdc rectifier.
  This powers 4 Syncinjectors and 2 Netonix. There is

Re: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?

[Scott Vander Dussen]

As an update, we scrounged up 4 connectorized APs of our own and Bill Prince 
has 2 which I'm driving out to go get.  Paul McCall is also connectorized and 
shipping me some for spares.  Love this list, thanks guys!  We'll have 80% of 
the customers restored within 90 minutes, the rest this afternoon.

Whew, fun morning.


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 8:07 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?

Or, if Cambium was nice, they could give you code to convert an SM into an AP.

-Original Message-
From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 9:05 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?

If you are good with an iron, you could remove the regulator chip from an SM 
and replace it into the AP (assuming it is the regulator that dies from 
overvoltage).

-Original Message-
From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 9:05 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?

He might could do an advance replacement...

-Original Message-
From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 9:04 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?

Paul McCall can probably fix those APs.

-Original Message-
From: Christopher Tyler
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 9:03 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?

Live an learn. At least you'll never do it again (hopefully).

--
Christopher Tyler
MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE
Total Highspeed Internet Services
417.851.1107

- Original Message -
From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 10:02:07 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?

We all just shed a collective tear...

At least tomorrow is Friday, right?
Spring his here!
Jaime is bound to put some photos of good food on the list.
Plenty of reasons to continue to live Scott.

From: Scott Vander Dussen
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 8:58 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?

Oh wow, that’s fairly misleading.  So I just smoked a ring of FSK.



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Baird
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 7:56 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?



Yeah, the SI's take up to ~60V, but they output what you feed them.  If you 
feed them 48V, they output 48V.  They do not have internal DC/DC converters 
unless I completely missed a new product announcement from Forrest (but, I 
don't see this product on the website).



On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 10:55 AM, Scott Vander Dussen 
wrote:



  Thanks,

  `S



  ---

  Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.


  On Mar 10, 2016, at 07:53, Josh Baird  wrote:

I haven't heard of this magical SyncInjector with a built in DC-DC 
converter that you speak of!



    On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 10:48 AM, Scott Vander Dussen  
wrote:

  Yes, but we're using SyncInjector version IO which allows 24-56VDC input 
and regulates that back down to 24VDC for the radios.

  -Original Message-
  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
  Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 7:39 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?

  Dumb question:
  You know the FSK have an absolute max input voltage of 30 VDC with the 
smoke exit voltage around 36 VDC, right?

  -Original Message-
  From: Scott Vander Dussen
  Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 8:34 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?

  We just changed out a 24vdc 20A AC/DC power supply with a 48vdc rectifier.
  This powers 4 Syncinjectors and 2 Netonix. There is a mix of 450 and FSK 
APs in each of those Syncinjectors.  When we powered back up 6 of the 6 FSK 
wont establish eth link with the Netonix, all the 450 are fine.  Ideas?
Tower climber en route but I'm stumped. TIA

  Thanks,
  `S

  ---
  Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.

Re: [AFMUG] Need FSK APs, will travel

[Scott Vander Dussen]

5.7ghz

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 8:11 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Need FSK APs, will travel

What frequency?

-Original Message-
From: Scott Vander Dussen
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 9:07 AM
To: 'AF Cambium List (af@afmug.com)'
Subject: [AFMUG] Need FSK APs, will travel

I'm in the market for 3-6 FSK APs today somewhere in central California. 
I'll come pick them up!  Please hit me off-list if you have any, boards without 
cases OK.  We're searching our inventory now for spares.  Or call
209-838-1221 x905.

Thx,
Scott 

Re: [AFMUG] Need FSK APs, will travel

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Oh, and connectorized.

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Scott Vander Dussen
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 8:07 AM
To: 'AF Cambium List (af@afmug.com)' 
Subject: [AFMUG] Need FSK APs, will travel

I'm in the market for 3-6 FSK APs today somewhere in central California.  I'll 
come pick them up!  Please hit me off-list if you have any, boards without 
cases OK.  We're searching our inventory now for spares.  Or call 209-838-1221 
x905.

Thx,
Scott

[AFMUG] Need FSK APs, will travel

[Scott Vander Dussen]

I'm in the market for 3-6 FSK APs today somewhere in central California.  I'll 
come pick them up!  Please hit me off-list if you have any, boards without 
cases OK.  We're searching our inventory now for spares.  Or call 209-838-1221 
x905.

Thx,
Scott

Re: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?

[Scott Vander Dussen]

ROFL, but Jamie’s photos are always blurry.. :/

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 8:02 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?

We all just shed a collective tear...

At least tomorrow is Friday, right?
Spring his here!
Jaime is bound to put some photos of good food on the list.
Plenty of reasons to continue to live Scott.

From: Scott Vander Dussen<mailto:sc...@velociter.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 8:58 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?

Oh wow, that’s fairly misleading.  So I just smoked a ring of FSK.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Baird
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 7:56 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?

Yeah, the SI's take up to ~60V, but they output what you feed them.  If you 
feed them 48V, they output 48V.  They do not have internal DC/DC converters 
unless I completely missed a new product announcement from Forrest (but, I 
don't see this product on the website).

On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 10:55 AM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:


Thanks,
`S

---
Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.

On Mar 10, 2016, at 07:53, Josh Baird 
mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I haven't heard of this magical SyncInjector with a built in DC-DC converter 
that you speak of!

On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 10:48 AM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
Yes, but we're using SyncInjector version IO which allows 24-56VDC input and 
regulates that back down to 24VDC for the radios.

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 7:39 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?

Dumb question:
You know the FSK have an absolute max input voltage of 30 VDC with the smoke 
exit voltage around 36 VDC, right?

-Original Message-
From: Scott Vander Dussen
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 8:34 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?
We just changed out a 24vdc 20A AC/DC power supply with a 48vdc rectifier.
This powers 4 Syncinjectors and 2 Netonix. There is a mix of 450 and FSK APs in 
each of those Syncinjectors.  When we powered back up 6 of the 6 FSK wont 
establish eth link with the Netonix, all the 450 are fine.  Ideas? Tower 
climber en route but I'm stumped. TIA

Thanks,
`S

---
Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.

Re: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Oh wow, that’s fairly misleading.  So I just smoked a ring of FSK.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Baird
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 7:56 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?

Yeah, the SI's take up to ~60V, but they output what you feed them.  If you 
feed them 48V, they output 48V.  They do not have internal DC/DC converters 
unless I completely missed a new product announcement from Forrest (but, I 
don't see this product on the website).

On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 10:55 AM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:


Thanks,
`S

---
Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.

On Mar 10, 2016, at 07:53, Josh Baird 
mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I haven't heard of this magical SyncInjector with a built in DC-DC converter 
that you speak of!

On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 10:48 AM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
Yes, but we're using SyncInjector version IO which allows 24-56VDC input and 
regulates that back down to 24VDC for the radios.

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 7:39 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?

Dumb question:
You know the FSK have an absolute max input voltage of 30 VDC with the smoke 
exit voltage around 36 VDC, right?

-----Original Message-
From: Scott Vander Dussen
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 8:34 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?
We just changed out a 24vdc 20A AC/DC power supply with a 48vdc rectifier.
This powers 4 Syncinjectors and 2 Netonix. There is a mix of 450 and FSK APs in 
each of those Syncinjectors.  When we powered back up 6 of the 6 FSK wont 
establish eth link with the Netonix, all the 450 are fine.  Ideas? Tower 
climber en route but I'm stumped. TIA

Thanks,
`S

---
Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.

Re: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Yeah, these SyncInjectors can take up to 56VDC, and it’s an Eltek with a 
floating ground so we’re able to put out 48vdc.  Just to verify that I’m doing 
+48 if I put my multimeter on, red to red, and back to black I’m reading 
+53.98VDC which is as expected for +48, right?

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Baird
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 7:44 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?

I'm assuming you are using a DC-DC converter to convert your -48VDC down to 24V 
for the SyncInjectors handling the FSK?

Also, your rectifier is probably -48VDC, not 48VDC.

On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 10:34 AM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
We just changed out a 24vdc 20A AC/DC power supply with a 48vdc rectifier. This 
powers 4 Syncinjectors and 2 Netonix. There is a mix of 450 and FSK APs in each 
of those Syncinjectors.  When we powered back up 6 of the 6 FSK wont establish 
eth link with the Netonix, all the 450 are fine.  Ideas? Tower climber en route 
but I'm stumped. TIA

Thanks,
`S

---
Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.

Re: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Yes, but we're using SyncInjector version IO which allows 24-56VDC input and 
regulates that back down to 24VDC for the radios.

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 7:39 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?

Dumb question:
You know the FSK have an absolute max input voltage of 30 VDC with the smoke 
exit voltage around 36 VDC, right?

-Original Message-
From: Scott Vander Dussen
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 8:34 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] FSK power problem?

We just changed out a 24vdc 20A AC/DC power supply with a 48vdc rectifier. 
This powers 4 Syncinjectors and 2 Netonix. There is a mix of 450 and FSK APs in 
each of those Syncinjectors.  When we powered back up 6 of the 6 FSK wont 
establish eth link with the Netonix, all the 450 are fine.  Ideas? Tower 
climber en route but I'm stumped. TIA

Thanks,
`S

---
Sent mobile, typed by thumbs. 

[AFMUG] FSK power problem?

[Scott Vander Dussen]

We just changed out a 24vdc 20A AC/DC power supply with a 48vdc rectifier. This 
powers 4 Syncinjectors and 2 Netonix. There is a mix of 450 and FSK APs in each 
of those Syncinjectors.  When we powered back up 6 of the 6 FSK wont establish 
eth link with the Netonix, all the 450 are fine.  Ideas? Tower climber en route 
but I'm stumped. TIA

Thanks,
`S

---
Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.

Re: [AFMUG] Eltek Rectifier Huh?

[Scott Vander Dussen]

+1 for Chuck, Eltek guy was kind enough to provide this explains it all PDF.

`S

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2016 1:47 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Eltek Rectifier Huh?

You connect the batts and the load and the rectifier all in parallel.  It 
should be set for giving you 54-55 VDC out.

If the load, rectifier and batts are all on the same parallel circuit, then 
when the power is out, the batts provide the load current.  When the power 
comes back on the rectifier powers the load and charges the batts.



From: Scott Vander Dussen<mailto:sc...@velociter.net>
Sent: Friday, March 4, 2016 1:26 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] Eltek Rectifier Huh?

Trying to figure these things out!  I purchased and built an Eltek rectifier 
product using these products:

CG1S-AUN-VC COMPACT POWER SHELF / REAR WIRE 200AMP MAX 48V UNIVERSAL OUTPUT 
POLARITY
BC2000-A01-10VC 48V, SYSTEM CONTROLLER W/ ETHERNET, NEXTGENERATION, W/ CLEI
V0750A-VC RECTIFIER, 840W, 53.5V, 15A, FAN COOLED (BOTTOM TO TOP) -INPUT: 
90-264VAC

It seems like this just takes AC power and gives me 48v DC out.  I was 
expecting it would also attach to a battery array and provide charging of those 
batteries plus use their power source if grid power was lost.  Am I totally 
wrong on that?  I don’t see any method of connecting batteries to this power 
shelf :/

Noob out,
Scott


Compact G Sketch.pdf
Description: Compact G Sketch.pdf

Re: [AFMUG] Eltek Rectifier Huh?

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Jason-
Thanks, do you know what version or model power shelf you have?  TIA.

`S

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2016 12:29 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Eltek Rectifier Huh?

On mine, the power shelf has a breaker unit that also has connections for the 
batteries.

On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 2:26 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
Trying to figure these things out!  I purchased and built an Eltek rectifier 
product using these products:

CG1S-AUN-VC COMPACT POWER SHELF / REAR WIRE 200AMP MAX 48V UNIVERSAL OUTPUT 
POLARITY
BC2000-A01-10VC 48V, SYSTEM CONTROLLER W/ ETHERNET, NEXTGENERATION, W/ CLEI
V0750A-VC RECTIFIER, 840W, 53.5V, 15A, FAN COOLED (BOTTOM TO TOP) -INPUT: 
90-264VAC

It seems like this just takes AC power and gives me 48v DC out.  I was 
expecting it would also attach to a battery array and provide charging of those 
batteries plus use their power source if grid power was lost.  Am I totally 
wrong on that?  I don’t see any method of connecting batteries to this power 
shelf :/

Noob out,
Scott

[AFMUG] Eltek Rectifier Huh?

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Trying to figure these things out!  I purchased and built an Eltek rectifier 
product using these products:

CG1S-AUN-VC COMPACT POWER SHELF / REAR WIRE 200AMP MAX 48V UNIVERSAL OUTPUT 
POLARITY
BC2000-A01-10VC 48V, SYSTEM CONTROLLER W/ ETHERNET, NEXTGENERATION, W/ CLEI
V0750A-VC RECTIFIER, 840W, 53.5V, 15A, FAN COOLED (BOTTOM TO TOP) -INPUT: 
90-264VAC

It seems like this just takes AC power and gives me 48v DC out.  I was 
expecting it would also attach to a battery array and provide charging of those 
batteries plus use their power source if grid power was lost.  Am I totally 
wrong on that?  I don’t see any method of connecting batteries to this power 
shelf :/

Noob out,
Scott

Re: [AFMUG] married-male seeking internet service

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Yeah yeah.. just before I read this I remember the name Michael.. old memories! 
 (:  Speaking of old, I remember reading about WiFi stuff on Seattle Wireless 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Wireless not sure if anyone was part of 
that deal.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, February 29, 2016 11:10 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] married-male seeking internet service

Mike Anderson.

One day he got mad and sent a note “I OUIT!!!” to the list.  He was pissed 
because someone posted a Trango question on the Canopy list or something like 
that.

Then, part 15 quit working.  It stayed down all day.  That evening I was 
fielding lots of questions about whether or not part 15 was done for good.

We set up a listserv and told everyone about it and everyone ended up here.  
Michael realized a day or two later that his server had crashed ( I think he 
may have went on a short vacation or something).  By then everyone was chatting 
over here.

(We did take a rather odd detour through WISPA for a while, but they decided 
they then owned the list and we got it out of there).

From: Scott Vander Dussen<mailto:sc...@velociter.net>
Sent: Monday, February 29, 2016 12:02 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] married-male seeking internet service

Part-15.org days—wow, haven’t thought of that for a while.  What was the name 
of the dude who ran that list?  IIRC something went down between him and Chuck? 
 Some kind of conflict..

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of justsumname .
Sent: Monday, February 29, 2016 9:38 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] married-male seeking internet service

...in central / northish Kentucky, near Lexington / Frankfurt / Lawrenceburg / 
Anderson County.

I don't need it *now* but I am scouting in advance of being there.Don't 
need a ton of bandwidth, just decent latency and reliability for working from 
home.   Good-ol-days 900Mhz Canopy -- no thanks.

Thanks to anyone who gots any help.

(I joined this group many years ago ... part-15.org<http://part-15.org> days 
cuz I was doing this for money, but been outta it since 2010).

--m

Re: [AFMUG] married-male seeking internet service

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Part-15.org days—wow, haven’t thought of that for a while.  What was the name 
of the dude who ran that list?  IIRC something went down between him and Chuck? 
 Some kind of conflict..

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of justsumname .
Sent: Monday, February 29, 2016 9:38 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] married-male seeking internet service

...in central / northish Kentucky, near Lexington / Frankfurt / Lawrenceburg / 
Anderson County.

I don't need it *now* but I am scouting in advance of being there.Don't 
need a ton of bandwidth, just decent latency and reliability for working from 
home.   Good-ol-days 900Mhz Canopy -- no thanks.

Thanks to anyone who gots any help.

(I joined this group many years ago ... part-15.org days 
cuz I was doing this for money, but been outta it since 2010).

--m

[AFMUG] Your favorite LFNC

[Scott Vander Dussen]

For encasing fiber leads outdoors, do you just buy the cheap stuff from the big 
box stores or something special like Thomas and Betts online?

Re: [AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Josh-
That’s cool, do you have a link to that product or name or anything?  I’ve 
searched around but just keep finding plug/receptacle power entry blocks, not 
that screw terminal type.  TIA!

`S

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Baird
Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2016 07:16
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC

You could do something like this.  The model pictured is a 1036.


On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 11:32 PM, Ken Hohhof 
mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
Looks like I remembered wrong, 125 watts, $3050.
http://routerboard.com/CCR1072-1G-8Splus


From: Scott Vander Dussen<mailto:sc...@velociter.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2016 10:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC

Close, it's the 256 core version is 72W, $895 MSRP.

Thanks,
`S

---
Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.

On Jan 2, 2016, at 16:59, Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> 
wrote:
The 72 core version is something like 250 watts, isn’t it?

From: Scott Vander Dussen<mailto:sc...@velociter.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2016 6:55 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC

Well, it doesn't have PoE in, but I also don't have a PoE device there, it's 
just the CCR1016-12S-1S+ by itself.  But you're right, even 802.11at or PoE+ 
only supports 30W. This must he why MT does not support PoE-in on the 
higher-end CCRs.
Thanks,
'S

Sent mobile!

On Jan 2, 2016, at 16:47, Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> 
wrote:
Max power consumption 44 watts, so I guess you could power it via POE, but it 
would have to be a high power POE.

From: Scott Vander Dussen<mailto:sc...@velociter.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2016 6:37 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC

No copper ports, all SFP.  :/

Instead of including a "free" copper transceiver I'd prefer one of the ports as 
PoE-in copper like most of their other products.

Thanks,
`S

---
Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.

On Jan 2, 2016, at 16:27, TJ Trout mailto:t...@voltbb.com>> 
wrote:
feed it poe

On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 4:22 PM, George Skorup 
mailto:geo...@cbcast.com>> wrote:
Oh look, a new product! And MikroTik still didn't listen. Seriously, how f'n 
hard is it to listen to your customers for one, and two, at least make it easy 
to run these things straight off of DC.

I have a 1016-12S-1S+ for a fiber project. It's pretty nice with the redundant 
power supplies. And if this project called for a DC plant, I'd be using 
something else.

Anyway, I'm sure you could rip the AC-DC power supplies out and wire it up how 
you want. Or drill a couple holes and put some of those banana plug terminal 
things in I suppose. Too much work for me.
On 1/2/2016 5:40 PM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote:

With a +48vdc power source would it make sense to power a 
CCR1016-12S-1S+<http://routerboard.com/CCR1016-12S-1Splus> by opening the case, 
bypassing the AC power supplies, and connecting a TRACO Power TCL 
060-124<http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TRACO-Power/TCL-060-124/?qs=ckJk83FOD0WMJFH7E7aMOQ%3D%3D>
 directly to the routerboard?  Is there an easier more efficient way?  Trying 
to avoid using AC at all, thanks.

Re: [AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Josh-
That’s cool, do you have a link to that product or name or anything?  I’ve 
searched around but just keep finding plug/receptacle power entry blocks, not 
that screw terminal type.  TIA!

`S

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Baird
Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2016 07:16
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC

You could do something like this.  The model pictured is a 1036.


On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 11:32 PM, Ken Hohhof 
mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
Looks like I remembered wrong, 125 watts, $3050.
http://routerboard.com/CCR1072-1G-8Splus


From: Scott Vander Dussen<mailto:sc...@velociter.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2016 10:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC

Close, it's the 256 core version is 72W, $895 MSRP.

Thanks,
`S

---
Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.

On Jan 2, 2016, at 16:59, Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> 
wrote:
The 72 core version is something like 250 watts, isn’t it?

From: Scott Vander Dussen<mailto:sc...@velociter.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2016 6:55 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC

Well, it doesn't have PoE in, but I also don't have a PoE device there, it's 
just the CCR1016-12S-1S+ by itself.  But you're right, even 802.11at or PoE+ 
only supports 30W. This must he why MT does not support PoE-in on the 
higher-end CCRs.
Thanks,
'S

Sent mobile!

On Jan 2, 2016, at 16:47, Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> 
wrote:
Max power consumption 44 watts, so I guess you could power it via POE, but it 
would have to be a high power POE.

From: Scott Vander Dussen<mailto:sc...@velociter.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2016 6:37 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC

No copper ports, all SFP.  :/

Instead of including a "free" copper transceiver I'd prefer one of the ports as 
PoE-in copper like most of their other products.

Thanks,
`S

---
Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.

On Jan 2, 2016, at 16:27, TJ Trout mailto:t...@voltbb.com>> 
wrote:
feed it poe

On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 4:22 PM, George Skorup 
mailto:geo...@cbcast.com>> wrote:
Oh look, a new product! And MikroTik still didn't listen. Seriously, how f'n 
hard is it to listen to your customers for one, and two, at least make it easy 
to run these things straight off of DC.

I have a 1016-12S-1S+ for a fiber project. It's pretty nice with the redundant 
power supplies. And if this project called for a DC plant, I'd be using 
something else.

Anyway, I'm sure you could rip the AC-DC power supplies out and wire it up how 
you want. Or drill a couple holes and put some of those banana plug terminal 
things in I suppose. Too much work for me.
On 1/2/2016 5:40 PM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote:

With a +48vdc power source would it make sense to power a 
CCR1016-12S-1S+<http://routerboard.com/CCR1016-12S-1Splus> by opening the case, 
bypassing the AC power supplies, and connecting a TRACO Power TCL 
060-124<http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TRACO-Power/TCL-060-124/?qs=ckJk83FOD0WMJFH7E7aMOQ%3D%3D>
 directly to the routerboard?  Is there an easier more efficient way?  Trying 
to avoid using AC at all, thanks.

Re: [AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Close, it's the 256 core version is 72W, $895 MSRP.

Thanks,
`S

---
Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.

On Jan 2, 2016, at 16:59, Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> 
wrote:

The 72 core version is something like 250 watts, isn’t it?

From: Scott Vander Dussen<mailto:sc...@velociter.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2016 6:55 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC

Well, it doesn't have PoE in, but I also don't have a PoE device there, it's 
just the CCR1016-12S-1S+ by itself.  But you're right, even 802.11at or PoE+ 
only supports 30W. This must he why MT does not support PoE-in on the 
higher-end CCRs.

Thanks,
'S

Sent mobile!

On Jan 2, 2016, at 16:47, Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> 
wrote:

Max power consumption 44 watts, so I guess you could power it via POE, but it 
would have to be a high power POE.

From: Scott Vander Dussen<mailto:sc...@velociter.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2016 6:37 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC

No copper ports, all SFP.  :/

Instead of including a "free" copper transceiver I'd prefer one of the ports as 
PoE-in copper like most of their other products.

Thanks,
`S

---
Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.

On Jan 2, 2016, at 16:27, TJ Trout mailto:t...@voltbb.com>> 
wrote:

feed it poe

On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 4:22 PM, George Skorup 
mailto:geo...@cbcast.com>> wrote:
Oh look, a new product! And MikroTik still didn't listen. Seriously, how f'n 
hard is it to listen to your customers for one, and two, at least make it easy 
to run these things straight off of DC.

I have a 1016-12S-1S+ for a fiber project. It's pretty nice with the redundant 
power supplies. And if this project called for a DC plant, I'd be using 
something else.

Anyway, I'm sure you could rip the AC-DC power supplies out and wire it up how 
you want. Or drill a couple holes and put some of those banana plug terminal 
things in I suppose. Too much work for me.

On 1/2/2016 5:40 PM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote:

With a +48vdc power source would it make sense to power a 
CCR1016-12S-1S+<http://routerboard.com/CCR1016-12S-1Splus> by opening the case, 
bypassing the AC power supplies, and connecting a TRACO Power TCL 
060-124<http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TRACO-Power/TCL-060-124/?qs=ckJk83FOD0WMJFH7E7aMOQ%3D%3D>
 directly to the routerboard?  Is there an easier more efficient way?  Trying 
to avoid using AC at all, thanks.

Re: [AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Well, it doesn't have PoE in, but I also don't have a PoE device there, it's 
just the CCR1016-12S-1S+<http://routerboard.com/CCR1016-12S-1Splus> by itself.  
But you're right, even 802.11at or PoE+ only supports 30W. This must he why MT 
does not support PoE-in on the higher-end CCRs.

Thanks,
'S

Sent mobile!

On Jan 2, 2016, at 16:47, Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> 
wrote:

Max power consumption 44 watts, so I guess you could power it via POE, but it 
would have to be a high power POE.

From: Scott Vander Dussen<mailto:sc...@velociter.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2016 6:37 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC

No copper ports, all SFP.  :/

Instead of including a "free" copper transceiver I'd prefer one of the ports as 
PoE-in copper like most of their other products.

Thanks,
`S

---
Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.

On Jan 2, 2016, at 16:27, TJ Trout mailto:t...@voltbb.com>> 
wrote:

feed it poe

On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 4:22 PM, George Skorup 
mailto:geo...@cbcast.com>> wrote:
Oh look, a new product! And MikroTik still didn't listen. Seriously, how f'n 
hard is it to listen to your customers for one, and two, at least make it easy 
to run these things straight off of DC.

I have a 1016-12S-1S+ for a fiber project. It's pretty nice with the redundant 
power supplies. And if this project called for a DC plant, I'd be using 
something else.

Anyway, I'm sure you could rip the AC-DC power supplies out and wire it up how 
you want. Or drill a couple holes and put some of those banana plug terminal 
things in I suppose. Too much work for me.

On 1/2/2016 5:40 PM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote:

With a +48vdc power source would it make sense to power a 
CCR1016-12S-1S+<http://routerboard.com/CCR1016-12S-1Splus> by opening the case, 
bypassing the AC power supplies, and connecting a TRACO Power TCL 
060-124<http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TRACO-Power/TCL-060-124/?qs=ckJk83FOD0WMJFH7E7aMOQ%3D%3D>
 directly to the routerboard?  Is there an easier more efficient way?  Trying 
to avoid using AC at all, thanks.

Re: [AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC

[Scott Vander Dussen]

No copper ports, all SFP.  :/

Instead of including a "free" copper transceiver I'd prefer one of the ports as 
PoE-in copper like most of their other products.

Thanks,
`S

---
Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.

On Jan 2, 2016, at 16:27, TJ Trout mailto:t...@voltbb.com>> 
wrote:

feed it poe

On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 4:22 PM, George Skorup 
mailto:geo...@cbcast.com>> wrote:
Oh look, a new product! And MikroTik still didn't listen. Seriously, how f'n 
hard is it to listen to your customers for one, and two, at least make it easy 
to run these things straight off of DC.

I have a 1016-12S-1S+ for a fiber project. It's pretty nice with the redundant 
power supplies. And if this project called for a DC plant, I'd be using 
something else.

Anyway, I'm sure you could rip the AC-DC power supplies out and wire it up how 
you want. Or drill a couple holes and put some of those banana plug terminal 
things in I suppose. Too much work for me.

On 1/2/2016 5:40 PM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote:

With a +48vdc power source would it make sense to power a 
CCR1016-12S-1S+<http://routerboard.com/CCR1016-12S-1Splus> by opening the case, 
bypassing the AC power supplies, and connecting a TRACO Power TCL 
060-124<http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TRACO-Power/TCL-060-124/?qs=ckJk83FOD0WMJFH7E7aMOQ%3D%3D>
 directly to the routerboard?  Is there an easier more efficient way?  Trying 
to avoid using AC at all, thanks.

[AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC

[Scott Vander Dussen]

With a +48vdc power source would it make sense to power a 
CCR1016-12S-1S+ by opening the case, 
bypassing the AC power supplies, and connecting a TRACO Power TCL 
060-124
 directly to the routerboard?  Is there an easier more efficient way?  Trying 
to avoid using AC at all, thanks.

Re: [AFMUG] 48v Rectifier Recommendations

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Thx, that actually helped a lot!

Thanks,
'S

Sent mobile!

On Dec 31, 2015, at 14:18, Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> 
wrote:

The difference is which side of the power supply is grounded.

Telecom standard “office battery” is negative with respect to ground, it goes 
back to galvanic corrosion and copper cables.  Or you could just view it as the 
standard, why is negative less logical than positive?

There is more confusion regarding 24 volts.  I think that was kind of a 
cellular standard voltage and tended to be +24 with respect to ground, but I’m 
not totally sure about that.  The other place you see a lot of 24VDC is the 
process control / DIN rail world, and I think that’s always +24.

And some references will tell you that 802.11at is +48V with respect to ground, 
but in actuality, I think most 802.11at POEs are floating, and most 802.11at 
powered devices are too.  But just to be totally safe at some DC sites with 
expensive licensed radios and WB GigE-POE, I have put in a DC-DC converter to 
provide +48V.


From: Scott Vander Dussen<mailto:sc...@velociter.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2015 3:56 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 48v Rectifier Recommendations

Not to be a total noob, but what exactly is -48, and why does it exist instead 
of just +48? I read up on it sometime ago I think it had its origins with the 
telecom industry frying stuff or something? But I don't understand what the 
fundamental difference between -48/+48 is.

Thanks,
'S

Sent mobile!

On Dec 31, 2015, at 10:26, Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> 
wrote:

Either of those should be good.  I have some Eltek gear, but people have said 
nice things about Emerson also.

One other option would be this:
http://www.alpha.ca/web2/products/standard-systems/dc-power-solutions/item/48vdc-cordex-hp-300w-2

I haven’t used that product, but I do have some of their FXM series UPS and 
they have been very solid.

Watch out that some of the rectifier products only work for one polarity, like 
–48VDC, so if you primarily need +48 that might be a problem.


From: Josh Baird<mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2015 11:52 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 48v Rectifier Recommendations

Check Emerson Netsure (211) or Eltek for rectifier solutions.

On Dec 31, 2015, at 12:45 PM, David Milholen 
mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com>> wrote:

I throw this name out there alot but dont know if anyone ever bites because the 
Cheaper solutions prevail.
When it comes to power I do not want to keep going back to revise or figure out 
what doesnt work.
�
Have a look at these babies from Duracomm. The price is right on these to. We 
are having to update a majority of our sites since the release of pmp450i
We also invested in the dc -dc converters and isolators for the -48 needed for 
ptp microwave gear.
http://www.duracomm.com/product-category/rack-mount-power-supplies/he1u-mu-series/

�

On 12/31/2015 11:35 AM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote:

I need to upgrade several sites from AC to DC.  Usage is 15A or less at 48vdc.  
Desire a robust, rack mount, with SNMP solution.  Any specific recommendations?


--

Re: [AFMUG] 48v Rectifier Recommendations

[Scott Vander Dussen]

That's what I remember reading before!

Thanks,
'S

Sent mobile!

On Dec 31, 2015, at 14:33, Chuck McCown 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

When a copper wire gets a fault in its insulation and it is exposed to the 
environment (rain, mud etc), you want the wire to be negative with respect to 
earth.  That allows conductive ions to flow to the wire.

If the wire was positive with respect to the earth, then copper ions would flow 
from the wire to the earth and the wire would slowly disappear.

Phone companies learned this years ago and went totally –48 because of this.



From: Scott Vander Dussen<mailto:sc...@velociter.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2015 2:56 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 48v Rectifier Recommendations

Not to be a total noob, but what exactly is -48, and why does it exist instead 
of just +48? I read up on it sometime ago I think it had its origins with the 
telecom industry frying stuff or something? But I don't understand what the 
fundamental difference between -48/+48 is.

Thanks,
'S

Sent mobile!

On Dec 31, 2015, at 10:26, Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> 
wrote:

Either of those should be good.  I have some Eltek gear, but people have said 
nice things about Emerson also.

One other option would be this:
http://www.alpha.ca/web2/products/standard-systems/dc-power-solutions/item/48vdc-cordex-hp-300w-2

I haven’t used that product, but I do have some of their FXM series UPS and 
they have been very solid.

Watch out that some of the rectifier products only work for one polarity, like 
–48VDC, so if you primarily need +48 that might be a problem.


From: Josh Baird<mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2015 11:52 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 48v Rectifier Recommendations

Check Emerson Netsure (211) or Eltek for rectifier solutions.

On Dec 31, 2015, at 12:45 PM, David Milholen 
mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com>> wrote:

I throw this name out there alot but dont know if anyone ever bites because the 
Cheaper solutions prevail.
When it comes to power I do not want to keep going back to revise or figure out 
what doesnt work.
�
Have a look at these babies from Duracomm. The price is right on these to. We 
are having to update a majority of our sites since the release of pmp450i
We also invested in the dc -dc converters and isolators for the -48 needed for 
ptp microwave gear.
http://www.duracomm.com/product-category/rack-mount-power-supplies/he1u-mu-series/

�

On 12/31/2015 11:35 AM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote:

I need to upgrade several sites from AC to DC.  Usage is 15A or less at 48vdc.  
Desire a robust, rack mount, with SNMP solution.  Any specific recommendations?


--

Re: [AFMUG] 48v Rectifier Recommendations

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Not to be a total noob, but what exactly is -48, and why does it exist instead 
of just +48? I read up on it sometime ago I think it had its origins with the 
telecom industry frying stuff or something? But I don't understand what the 
fundamental difference between -48/+48 is.

Thanks,
'S

Sent mobile!

On Dec 31, 2015, at 10:26, Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> 
wrote:

Either of those should be good.  I have some Eltek gear, but people have said 
nice things about Emerson also.

One other option would be this:
http://www.alpha.ca/web2/products/standard-systems/dc-power-solutions/item/48vdc-cordex-hp-300w-2

I haven’t used that product, but I do have some of their FXM series UPS and 
they have been very solid.

Watch out that some of the rectifier products only work for one polarity, like 
–48VDC, so if you primarily need +48 that might be a problem.


From: Josh Baird<mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2015 11:52 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 48v Rectifier Recommendations

Check Emerson Netsure (211) or Eltek for rectifier solutions.

On Dec 31, 2015, at 12:45 PM, David Milholen 
mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com>> wrote:

I throw this name out there alot but dont know if anyone ever bites because the 
Cheaper solutions prevail.
When it comes to power I do not want to keep going back to revise or figure out 
what doesnt work.
�
Have a look at these babies from Duracomm. The price is right on these to. We 
are having to update a majority of our sites since the release of pmp450i
We also invested in the dc -dc converters and isolators for the -48 needed for 
ptp microwave gear.
http://www.duracomm.com/product-category/rack-mount-power-supplies/he1u-mu-series/

�

On 12/31/2015 11:35 AM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote:

I need to upgrade several sites from AC to DC.  Usage is 15A or less at 48vdc.  
Desire a robust, rack mount, with SNMP solution.  Any specific recommendations?


--

Re: [AFMUG] 48v Rectifier Recommendations

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Thx for the recommendation. I checked out the 211, anything specific from 
Eltek?  I've read on this list recommendations for the BC2000 controller, but 
am not certain which chassis that fits with. Is there a particular setup from 
Eltek you prefer?

Thanks,
'S

Sent mobile!

On Dec 31, 2015, at 09:52, Josh Baird 
mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Check Emerson Netsure (211) or Eltek for rectifier solutions.

On Dec 31, 2015, at 12:45 PM, David Milholen 
mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com>> wrote:

I throw this name out there alot but dont know if anyone ever bites because the 
Cheaper solutions prevail.
When it comes to power I do not want to keep going back to revise or figure out 
what doesnt work.
�
Have a look at these babies from Duracomm. The price is right on these to. We 
are having to update a majority of our sites since the release of pmp450i
We also invested in the dc -dc converters and isolators for the -48 needed for 
ptp microwave gear.
<http://www.duracomm.com/product-category/rack-mount-power-supplies/he1u-mu-series/>http://www.duracomm.com/product-category/rack-mount-power-supplies/he1u-mu-series/

�

On 12/31/2015 11:35 AM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote:

I need to upgrade several sites from AC to DC.  Usage is 15A or less at 48vdc.  
Desire a robust, rack mount, with SNMP solution.  Any specific recommendations?


--

Re: [AFMUG] 48v Rectifier Recommendations

[Scott Vander Dussen]

David-
Thx, what's the ballpark on these? I tried to request a quote but the website 
but it errors out  :/

Thx.

Thanks,
'S

Sent mobile!

On Dec 31, 2015, at 09:45, David Milholen 
mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com>> wrote:

I throw this name out there alot but dont know if anyone ever bites because the 
Cheaper solutions prevail.
When it comes to power I do not want to keep going back to revise or figure out 
what doesnt work.
�
Have a look at these babies from Duracomm. The price is right on these to. We 
are having to update a majority of our sites since the release of pmp450i
We also invested in the dc -dc converters and isolators for the -48 needed for 
ptp microwave gear.
<http://www.duracomm.com/product-category/rack-mount-power-supplies/he1u-mu-series/>http://www.duracomm.com/product-category/rack-mount-power-supplies/he1u-mu-series/

�

On 12/31/2015 11:35 AM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote:

I need to upgrade several sites from AC to DC.  Usage is 15A or less at 48vdc.  
Desire a robust, rack mount, with SNMP solution.  Any specific recommendations?


--

[AFMUG] 48v Rectifier Recommendations

[Scott Vander Dussen]

I need to upgrade several sites from AC to DC.  Usage is 15A or less at 48vdc.  
Desire a robust, rack mount, with SNMP solution.  Any specific recommendations?

Re: [AFMUG] SiteMonitor Moisture Wetness Sensor

[Scott Vander Dussen]

If there is, I can’t find anything like that on Packetflux’s website.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 19:12
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SiteMonitor Moisture Wetness Sensor


Uhmm isn't there a voltage output humidity sensor for Packetflux?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Dec 30, 2015 10:10 PM, "Scott Vander Dussen" 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
Would something like 
this<http://www.ebay.com/itm/Water-Leak-Sensor-Detector-for-Home-Security-Warning-Signal-System-5-24V-DC-/291126157902?hash=item43c878a24e:g:pfQAAOxycD9TTh9D>
 work connected to the relay block?

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of Scott Vander Dussen
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 19:05
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] SiteMonitor Moisture Wetness Sensor

Has anyone connected a moisture sensor to a SiteMonitor for wetness detection 
inside an enclosure?  Looking for a compatible sensor, thx!

Re: [AFMUG] SiteMonitor Moisture Wetness Sensor

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Would something like 
this<http://www.ebay.com/itm/Water-Leak-Sensor-Detector-for-Home-Security-Warning-Signal-System-5-24V-DC-/291126157902?hash=item43c878a24e:g:pfQAAOxycD9TTh9D>
 work connected to the relay block?

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Scott Vander Dussen
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 19:05
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] SiteMonitor Moisture Wetness Sensor

Has anyone connected a moisture sensor to a SiteMonitor for wetness detection 
inside an enclosure?  Looking for a compatible sensor, thx!

[AFMUG] SiteMonitor Moisture Wetness Sensor

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Has anyone connected a moisture sensor to a SiteMonitor for wetness detection 
inside an enclosure?  Looking for a compatible sensor, thx!

Re: [AFMUG] SyncInjector n00b question (SOLVED)

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Bill-
Bingo, so it’s a single CAT5 RJ45 8P8C from the SyncInjector’s “SyncPipe” port 
to the center RJ45 of the SyncPipe Deluxe and that’s the complete connection.  
Thanks, we tried this before coming here but apparently had something wrong as 
when I tried it again it worked. (:

Thanks again,
Scott

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2015 17:04
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SyncInjector n00b question

When the syncpipe is plugged into the sync injector, it gets power and 
transfers data over through the ethernet cable (RJ45 at each end).



bp




On 12/29/2015 5:01 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

No POE.  Both devices need power.  The Syncpipe has a GPS module and does 
timing on the 6p6c ports.

Timing ports can be daisy chained (which is how SyncInjector gets timing).

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Dec 29, 2015 7:53 PM, "Scott Vander Dussen" 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
OK, so the SyncInjector provides PoE from its “SyncPipe or Daisy Chain In” RJ45 
port, and that plugs into the center RJ45 port of the SyncPipe?  So the 
SyncPipe receives PoE from the SyncInjector and sends timing back though that 
same cable?  I tried that and it didn’t work :/

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2015 16:49
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SyncInjector n00b question

Correct.  RJ45 simply won't fit on the outside ones.

It will have one of the LEDs on when it's powered/booted if memory serves.  
Maybe green?  I think the amber blinks every second or three to let you know 
it's good to go...something like that...


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 7:46 PM, Steve Utick 
mailto:sut...@gmail.com>> wrote:
And, I believe it needs to be plugged into the center jack on the SyncPipe as 
well, not the side ones.   The side ones are 6p6c connectors to provide sync to 
a A/P by sync cable.

On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 5:44 PM, Josh Luthman 
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:

Syncpipe needs power.  Up to 50v?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Dec 29, 2015 7:18 PM, "Scott Vander Dussen" 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
Trying to use a SyncInjector to provide timing over power to a mix of 
100/450APs.

Gigabit SyncInjector revision I0, SyncPipe Deluxe revision H1 both receiving 
27vdc.  SyncPipe timing port directly to APs timing port works fine.  SyncPipe 
timing port to SyncInjector “SyncPipe or Daisy Chain In” port does not seem to 
work. (see syncinjector.jpg)  I’ve tried two SyncInjectors with the same 
results.  If the SyncInjector is receiving sync from the SyncPipe, should I see 
the value column populated? (See site monitor string.png)

Is there any configuration I need to change for the SyncInjector/SiteMonitor to 
make this combo work?  Thanks in advance.

Re: [AFMUG] SyncInjector n00b question

[Scott Vander Dussen]

OK, so the SyncInjector provides PoE from its “SyncPipe or Daisy Chain In” RJ45 
port, and that plugs into the center RJ45 port of the SyncPipe?  So the 
SyncPipe receives PoE from the SyncInjector and sends timing back though that 
same cable?  I tried that and it didn’t work :/

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2015 16:49
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SyncInjector n00b question

Correct.  RJ45 simply won't fit on the outside ones.

It will have one of the LEDs on when it's powered/booted if memory serves.  
Maybe green?  I think the amber blinks every second or three to let you know 
it's good to go...something like that...


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 7:46 PM, Steve Utick 
mailto:sut...@gmail.com>> wrote:
And, I believe it needs to be plugged into the center jack on the SyncPipe as 
well, not the side ones.   The side ones are 6p6c connectors to provide sync to 
a A/P by sync cable.


On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 5:44 PM, Josh Luthman 
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:

Syncpipe needs power.  Up to 50v?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Dec 29, 2015 7:18 PM, "Scott Vander Dussen" 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
Trying to use a SyncInjector to provide timing over power to a mix of 
100/450APs.

Gigabit SyncInjector revision I0, SyncPipe Deluxe revision H1 both receiving 
27vdc.  SyncPipe timing port directly to APs timing port works fine.  SyncPipe 
timing port to SyncInjector “SyncPipe or Daisy Chain In” port does not seem to 
work. (see syncinjector.jpg)  I’ve tried two SyncInjectors with the same 
results.  If the SyncInjector is receiving sync from the SyncPipe, should I see 
the value column populated? (See site monitor string.png)

Is there any configuration I need to change for the SyncInjector/SiteMonitor to 
make this combo work?  Thanks in advance.

Re: [AFMUG] SyncInjector n00b question

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Yes, this photo was just demonstrating how I was connecting the SyncPipe to the 
SyncInjector.  I have a separate CAT5 with just Canopy-polarity power 27vdc (no 
data pins) going to the center port on the SyncPipe.  Is this correct?

`S

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2015 16:45
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SyncInjector n00b question


Syncpipe needs power.  Up to 50v?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Dec 29, 2015 7:18 PM, "Scott Vander Dussen" 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
Trying to use a SyncInjector to provide timing over power to a mix of 
100/450APs.

Gigabit SyncInjector revision I0, SyncPipe Deluxe revision H1 both receiving 
27vdc.  SyncPipe timing port directly to APs timing port works fine.  SyncPipe 
timing port to SyncInjector “SyncPipe or Daisy Chain In” port does not seem to 
work. (see syncinjector.jpg)  I’ve tried two SyncInjectors with the same 
results.  If the SyncInjector is receiving sync from the SyncPipe, should I see 
the value column populated? (See site monitor string.png)

Is there any configuration I need to change for the SyncInjector/SiteMonitor to 
make this combo work?  Thanks in advance.

Re: [AFMUG] DC up tower

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Wanted to share this cool tool for measuring distance, resistance, etc. pretty 
snazzy-

http://www.bulkwire.com/wireresistance.asp

`S

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Forrest Christian (List 
Account)
Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2015 22:07
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC up tower

Yep.  Usually you end up with SOOW anyways, since type SOOW actually is an 
acceptable SO subsitute, and most manufacturers have switched to just 
manufacturing SOOW.  I'm not even sure you can buy "normal" SO cord anymore.

S = Severge service cord.
O = Oil Reistant outer Jacket
O = Oil resistant wire insulation.
W = CSA Weather and water resistant.

Mainly you want to avoid the 'SJ' variant (aka SJOOW) since that is typically 
thinner cord.  Many/most round extension cords are type SJ.



On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 4:01 PM, Chuck McCown 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
Or SOOW, a bit easier to get.

From: Forrest Christian (List Account)<mailto:li...@packetflux.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2015 3:58 PM
To: af<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC up tower

My preference is just good old fashioned SO cord of an appropriate gauge.   Not 
such a big fan of SJO or other cables, as the SO cord has good, solid jacket 
which will last almost forever.

-forrest



On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 3:44 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:

Recommendations for 2/4 conductor cable for DC power up tower?  Is it totally 
ghetto to use 
“Landscaping<http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-2-Low-Voltage-Outdoor-Landscape-Lighting-Wire-Cable-500ft-UV-rated-DB-10awg-/150747457706?hash=item23193fa8aa:m:mr3HyII5iUGAr7vrCsUfOvw>”
 cable?





--
Forrest Christian CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com<mailto:forre...@imach.com> | 
http://www.packetflux.com<http://www.packetflux.com/>
[https://s3.amazonaws.com/images.wisestamp.com/icons/linkedin.png]<http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian>
 [https://s3.amazonaws.com/images.wisestamp.com/icons/facebook.png] 
<http://facebook.com/packetflux>  
[https://s3.amazonaws.com/images.wisestamp.com/icons/twitter.png] 
<http://twitter.com/@packetflux>





--
Forrest Christian CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com<mailto:forre...@imach.com> | 
http://www.packetflux.com<http://www.packetflux.com/>
[https://s3.amazonaws.com/images.wisestamp.com/icons/linkedin.png]<http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian>
 [https://s3.amazonaws.com/images.wisestamp.com/icons/facebook.png] 
<http://facebook.com/packetflux>  
[https://s3.amazonaws.com/images.wisestamp.com/icons/twitter.png] 
<http://twitter.com/@packetflux>

Re: [AFMUG] Site Survey question

[Scott Vander Dussen]

It’s UBNT’s feature to make all the wireless cowboys just a tad more obnoxious.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2015 18:05
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Site Survey question


Seriously doubt it.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Dec 8, 2015 9:01 PM, "Jaime Solorza" 
mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Do the UBNT Rockets M5 or AC radios pick up the Mimosa B5 Lite radios on site 
survey tool?  Thanks

Re: [AFMUG] SyncInjector powering Mimosa B11

[Scott Vander Dussen]

OK got it, thx again for the input.  Put a few on order, should arrive before 
Christmas!  (:

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of TJ Trout
Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2015 16:32
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SyncInjector powering Mimosa B11

the 250 will take 9-60 in and give you solid 24v and 48v out, the ws-12-dc will 
do solid 24v out and your input voltage at the tower top as your 48v poe out 
even if it's 30v or whatever makes it to the top.

On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 4:30 PM, TJ Trout 
mailto:t...@voltbb.com>> wrote:
it will pass the input out for the 48v poe devices (so your b11 will get 
whatever your input voltage is) and 24v devices will be down converted from 
your input voltage to 24v.



On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 4:17 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
LOL, thx- I’ll post some pix when it’s done.  I think the WS-12 would suffice 
despite voltage drop, from website:

“This model is for people who have conditioned 48V DC sites, it expects 48V +/- 
input but can safely operate on 37V to 53V input as it will condition 24V out 
from this input range but will pass out the input voltage as the 48V POE 
option.”

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of TJ Trout
Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2015 16:14
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SyncInjector powering Mimosa B11

power the sync injector off of one of the POE ports, feed the WS-12-250 fiber 
and you can connect everything to it, even loop fiber back out for the b11 if 
you must :) wouldn't even need any dc distribution either just DC straight into 
the netonix, ok I'll shut up now

On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 4:12 PM, TJ Trout 
mailto:t...@voltbb.com>> wrote:
streak has the ws-6 in stock

On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 4:12 PM, TJ Trout 
mailto:t...@voltbb.com>> wrote:
actually, just use a ws-12-250-dc and u get your switch and poe in the same 
box, just plug your syncinjector and done. alternatively you could use the 
ws-12-dc but the 250 will account for the volt drop on the aerial run.



On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 4:04 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
Why is everything cool that Netonix makes always out of stock!

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of TJ Trout
Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2015 15:56
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SyncInjector powering Mimosa B11

maybe the apc-din and gige-poe-apc, or maybe a ws-6-mini would be better, u can 
always use as midspan

On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 3:53 PM, George Skorup 
mailto:geo...@cbcast.com>> wrote:
No definitely don't use the 320/430 injector. You don't need sync over power 
either. Just use a PacketFlux 4 or 8 port GigE PoE injector module. Or Chuck's 
GigE-APC-POE cards.
On 12/8/2015 5:47 PM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote:

Mimosa B11 is 802.11at compliant, power consumption up to 48vdc 30 watts.  I 
need a din rail solution to power up 2 B11s; any reason a SyncInjector for the 
Canopy 320 and 430 product 
lines<http://store.packetflux.com/syncinjector-for-canopy-320-430-48-volt/> 
wouldn't work just to inject power onto the eth line?  Data is through fiber.

Re: [AFMUG] SyncInjector powering Mimosa B11

[Scott Vander Dussen]

LOL, thx- I’ll post some pix when it’s done.  I think the WS-12 would suffice 
despite voltage drop, from website:

“This model is for people who have conditioned 48V DC sites, it expects 48V +/- 
input but can safely operate on 37V to 53V input as it will condition 24V out 
from this input range but will pass out the input voltage as the 48V POE 
option.”

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of TJ Trout
Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2015 16:14
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SyncInjector powering Mimosa B11

power the sync injector off of one of the POE ports, feed the WS-12-250 fiber 
and you can connect everything to it, even loop fiber back out for the b11 if 
you must :) wouldn't even need any dc distribution either just DC straight into 
the netonix, ok I'll shut up now

On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 4:12 PM, TJ Trout 
mailto:t...@voltbb.com>> wrote:
streak has the ws-6 in stock

On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 4:12 PM, TJ Trout 
mailto:t...@voltbb.com>> wrote:
actually, just use a ws-12-250-dc and u get your switch and poe in the same 
box, just plug your syncinjector and done. alternatively you could use the 
ws-12-dc but the 250 will account for the volt drop on the aerial run.



On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 4:04 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
Why is everything cool that Netonix makes always out of stock!

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of TJ Trout
Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2015 15:56
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SyncInjector powering Mimosa B11

maybe the apc-din and gige-poe-apc, or maybe a ws-6-mini would be better, u can 
always use as midspan

On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 3:53 PM, George Skorup 
mailto:geo...@cbcast.com>> wrote:
No definitely don't use the 320/430 injector. You don't need sync over power 
either. Just use a PacketFlux 4 or 8 port GigE PoE injector module. Or Chuck's 
GigE-APC-POE cards.
On 12/8/2015 5:47 PM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote:

Mimosa B11 is 802.11at compliant, power consumption up to 48vdc 30 watts.  I 
need a din rail solution to power up 2 B11s; any reason a SyncInjector for the 
Canopy 320 and 430 product 
lines<http://store.packetflux.com/syncinjector-for-canopy-320-430-48-volt/> 
wouldn't work just to inject power onto the eth line?  Data is through fiber.

Re: [AFMUG] SyncInjector powering Mimosa B11

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Why is everything cool that Netonix makes always out of stock!

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of TJ Trout
Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2015 15:56
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SyncInjector powering Mimosa B11

maybe the apc-din and gige-poe-apc, or maybe a ws-6-mini would be better, u can 
always use as midspan

On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 3:53 PM, George Skorup 
mailto:geo...@cbcast.com>> wrote:
No definitely don't use the 320/430 injector. You don't need sync over power 
either. Just use a PacketFlux 4 or 8 port GigE PoE injector module. Or Chuck's 
GigE-APC-POE cards.
On 12/8/2015 5:47 PM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote:

Mimosa B11 is 802.11at compliant, power consumption up to 48vdc 30 watts.  I 
need a din rail solution to power up 2 B11s; any reason a SyncInjector for the 
Canopy 320 and 430 product 
lines<http://store.packetflux.com/syncinjector-for-canopy-320-430-48-volt/> 
wouldn't work just to inject power onto the eth line?  Data is through fiber.

Re: [AFMUG] SyncInjector powering Mimosa B11

[Scott Vander Dussen]

I didn’t even notice the PF SITEMONITOR 4 CHANNEL GIGABIT POE INJECTOR & 
CONTROLLER offers a din rail mounting solution- cool, thx.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of George Skorup
Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2015 15:53
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SyncInjector powering Mimosa B11

No definitely don't use the 320/430 injector. You don't need sync over power 
either. Just use a PacketFlux 4 or 8 port GigE PoE injector module. Or Chuck's 
GigE-APC-POE cards.
On 12/8/2015 5:47 PM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote:

Mimosa B11 is 802.11at compliant, power consumption up to 48vdc 30 watts.  I 
need a din rail solution to power up 2 B11s; any reason a SyncInjector for the 
Canopy 320 and 430 product 
lines<http://store.packetflux.com/syncinjector-for-canopy-320-430-48-volt/> 
wouldn't work just to inject power onto the eth line?  Data is through fiber.

Re: [AFMUG] DC up tower

[Scott Vander Dussen]

LOL, no!  A combined 2000’ for multiple sites.  (:

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2015 15:47
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC up tower

The tower is only 1950', he's got to get it to the building 50' over.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 6:44 PM, TJ Trout 
mailto:t...@voltbb.com>> wrote:
Not a 2000ft run right? that would be interesting.

On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 3:41 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
~2000’

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2015 14:51
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC up tower

There are some nice cables made for doing lights on trailers.  Usually 16 or 18 
gauge.  How much do you need?

From: Scott Vander Dussen<mailto:sc...@velociter.net>
Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2015 3:44 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] DC up tower


Recommendations for 2/4 conductor cable for DC power up tower?  Is it totally 
ghetto to use 
“Landscaping<http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-2-Low-Voltage-Outdoor-Landscape-Lighting-Wire-Cable-500ft-UV-rated-DB-10awg-/150747457706?hash=item23193fa8aa:m:mr3HyII5iUGAr7vrCsUfOvw>”
 cable?

[AFMUG] SyncInjector powering Mimosa B11

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Mimosa B11 is 802.11at compliant, power consumption up to 48vdc 30 watts.  I 
need a din rail solution to power up 2 B11s; any reason a SyncInjector for the 
Canopy 320 and 430 product 
lines 
wouldn't work just to inject power onto the eth line?  Data is through fiber.

Re: [AFMUG] DC up tower

[Scott Vander Dussen]

~2000’

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2015 14:51
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC up tower

There are some nice cables made for doing lights on trailers.  Usually 16 or 18 
gauge.  How much do you need?

From: Scott Vander Dussen<mailto:sc...@velociter.net>
Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2015 3:44 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] DC up tower


Recommendations for 2/4 conductor cable for DC power up tower?  Is it totally 
ghetto to use 
“Landscaping<http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-2-Low-Voltage-Outdoor-Landscape-Lighting-Wire-Cable-500ft-UV-rated-DB-10awg-/150747457706?hash=item23193fa8aa:m:mr3HyII5iUGAr7vrCsUfOvw>”
 cable?

[AFMUG] DC up tower

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Recommendations for 2/4 conductor cable for DC power up tower?  Is it totally 
ghetto to use 
“Landscaping”
 cable?

Re: [AFMUG] Din rail terminal blocks

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Cool thx!

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2015 13:15
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Din rail terminal blocks


Terminal Blocks
§  DDFL4U(E)/24 
http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=5Hao8BkaeM0an4lZUc1lww%3D%3D
§  EPDDFL4U 
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Altech/EPDDFL4U/?qs=iNSDi2pFYG%252b%252b33mJIWE%252b5A%3d%3d
§  CA711/10 
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Altech/CA711-10/?qs=ZqY8%252biA3zwJGZ4Z3jrpxkBi69KJlA50F

one block gets fed the power, bigger fuse, then the rest get a smaller fuse for 
the individual radio


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 4:09 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
I’m attempting an enclosure that “looks clean” but don’t have much experience 
with this stuff.  I want to take in a 2 conductor DC power lead and split it 
multiple ways inside.  The incoming DC lead is 12AWG and the split off leads 
range from 16-20AWG.  Is a din rail terminal block what I want to use for this, 
or is there something better?

If I use terminal 
blocks<http://www.ebay.com/itm/DIN-Rail-Terminal-Blocks-10-Quantity-DK2-5N-RD-Red-Dinkle-12-AWG-Gauge-20A-600V-/121808617275?hash=item1c5c5bff3b:g:ni8AAOSwYHxWPPsz>
 do I then use 
jumpers<http://www.ebay.com/itm/DIN-Rail-Terminal-Block-Jumpers-50-Qty-DSS2-5N-02P-Dinkle-12-AWG-2-Pole-DK2-5N-/121326062425?hash=item1c3f98cb59:g:P7kAAOxyBjBTWBni>
 to bond two or more together?  Is it hokey to jump multiple terminal blocks 
together with those two terminal jumpers?  Do all the wires go in one side and 
jumpers in the back?

Sorry for all the n00bness.

[AFMUG] Din rail terminal blocks

[Scott Vander Dussen]

I’m attempting an enclosure that “looks clean” but don’t have much experience 
with this stuff.  I want to take in a 2 conductor DC power lead and split it 
multiple ways inside.  The incoming DC lead is 12AWG and the split off leads 
range from 16-20AWG.  Is a din rail terminal block what I want to use for this, 
or is there something better?

If I use terminal 
blocks
 do I then use 
jumpers
 to bond two or more together?  Is it hokey to jump multiple terminal blocks 
together with those two terminal jumpers?  Do all the wires go in one side and 
jumpers in the back?

Sorry for all the n00bness.

Re: [AFMUG] Cord grips / liquid tight

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Awesome, thx!

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jon Langeler
Sent: Monday, December 7, 2015 17:06
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cord grips / liquid tight

M4524GBW-SM

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.

On Dec 7, 2015, at 7:26 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
I have a NEMA4 fiberglass enclosure that has 18-24 cables (CAT5/Fiber/DC) that 
need entry.

Is there a better method than using tons of Liquid Tight 
Cordgrips<http://www.heyco.com/Liquid_Tight_Cordgrips/pdf/3-2_115.pdf> / Strain 
relief connectors?

[AFMUG] Cord grips / liquid tight

[Scott Vander Dussen]

I have a NEMA4 fiberglass enclosure that has 18-24 cables (CAT5/Fiber/DC) that 
need entry.

Is there a better method than using tons of Liquid Tight 
Cordgrips / Strain 
relief connectors?

Re: [AFMUG] WiFi Nightmare (Picture)

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Thx for the Ruckus recommendation- what’s the magic sauce that allows so many 
concurrent connections?  The ZoneFlex R710 claims up to 500 connections, does 
any of the new UniFi stuff get anywhere near that?

Is a ZoneDirector required for using the APs?


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 15:00
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WiFi Nightmare (Picture)


Three ruckus devices.  Done.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Dec 2, 2015 5:53 PM, "Scott Vander Dussen" 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
Project to provide public Wi-Fi coverage in a church sanctuary.  Occupancy 
ranges from 300-900; walls are concrete and ceiling is multipath-infused metal. 
 Ideas how to make the best of this?

Thinking UniFi AC-Pro, limiting G radio to 45 users, limiting AC radio to 65
Install 6x APs below metal rafters, turn down G radio transmit power to 
mitigate self-interference from channel reuse.  Green circles show approximate 
placement, kinda skewed in photo tho.