Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

We have some wireless sites in "rural alabama" using ospf rings.  The middle, 
occasionally, gets the short straw and we've had to make sure there is enough 
bandwidth across the ring to make sure the middle doesn't suffer a speed loss.

Is there enough bandwidth on your ring to prevent this problem?

  - Original Message - 
  From: Gino Villarini 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 12:27 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more


  Ken, we have been doing MDUs in PR and FL for about 18 months now. WE are
  using AF24 units to each bldg in a ring format with no more of 10 blds in
  the ring. Endpoints are fiber pops.  WE sell up to 500 Mbps, usage is in
  resitential ins avg 25-30 mbs, we only see 500 mbps whrn they go to the
  speed tests sites.

  On 10/27/16, 12:47 PM, "Af on behalf of Ken Hohhof" <af-boun...@afmug.com



Gino Villarini
   
President 
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 




  on behalf of af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

  >The way I read their change in direction is they are focusing now on high
  >rise apartment and office buildings where they can beam bandwidth to the
  >rooftop.  No more gigabit to individual homes.  Not a Vivint play.  Maybe
  >I'm wrong.
  >
  >As far as 250 people all expecting a gig, not sure what they are planning.
  >Maybe they figure there's enough spectrum in millimeter wave to do
  >whatever
  >they need to do.  Maybe creative marketing.  Let's face it, most big ISPs
  >now sell best effort speeds.  Well, to residential.  Businesses may still
  >expect to actually get what they were promised and maybe even to actually
  >use it.
  >
  >-Original Message-
  >From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
  >Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:32 AM
  >To: af@afmug.com
  >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
  >
  >But how about microwave to the home?  That is what people expect when they
  >hear Google is coming to town.  GigE to the home.  I think the MTU market
  >may eventually struggle with getting enough BW via microwave as well.
  >With
  >an apartment building with 250 people all expecting a gig, hard to do with
  >microwave.
  >
  >-Original Message-
  >From: Ken Hohhof
  >Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 10:27 AM
  >To: af@afmug.com
  >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
  >
  >Microwave to MTU/MDU rooftop.  Proven business model.  Ask Teligent,
  >Winstar, Nextlink.  In fairness, now almost 20 years later, there is more
  >demand for what they are selling.  But also more competition.
  >
  >And it's not like nobody is doing this already.  Like in Chicago SilverIP
  >comes to mind.
  >
  >
  >-Original Message-
  >From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
  >Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:05 AM
  >To: af@afmug.com
  >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
  >
  >I predict the PhD syndrome is going to also affect the wireless end.
  >Vivant
  >tried and failed.
  >
  >30 somethings that slept through physics are going to run up against the
  >hard limits of trees, hills and rain.
  >
  >Doesn't matter how crazy the radio is, they will learn as everyone that
  >tries RF distribution learns.
  >
  >5 years they will be back to fiber.  Or deciding not to be part of the
  >transport solution.
  >
  >-Original Message-
  >From: Robert
  >Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:49 AM
  >To: af@afmug.com
  >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
  >
  >Phd syndrome...  Getting an advanced degree at a big Uni gives you
  >almost zero experience in the trenches...   The move to wireless means
  >that they can buy their way into the FCC and move down from there...
  >
  >On 10/27/16 6:40 AM, Brian Webster wrote:
  >> I worked directly on the San Jose and Sand Diego projects. I was
  >> brought in by one of the main contractors to help reduce costs and
  >> increase efficiency. Google had way too many ï¿1Ž230 somethingsï¿1Ž2 who
  >> failed to listen to experienced telecom professionals. That was one of
  >> their biggest faults. It was insane to try and build a network in San
  >> Jose that was going to have to be built mostly underground. That
  >> market already had new AT U-verse fiber and Time Warner with a very
  >> strong network. Heck I could get 100 meg speeds on Wi-Fi at the hotel
  >> I stayed in. Their Ego to build in their own backyard was pushing the
  >> build more than anything.
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> The concept of cherry picking neighborhoods actually drove costs up.
  >> When they wanted a citywide network design, that is what they were

Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

[Mike Hammett]

I think one of our neighbors was selling 10 meg service with only 12 megs worth 
of T1 lines. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 6:48:45 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more 

That sounds like when I started in wireless 13 years ago with 2 bonded T1 lines 
to the tower and sold 3 Mbps service. Worked until Netflix and Youtube came 
along. 


-Original Message- 
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen 
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 1:25 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more 

On 10/27/16 10:37, Ken Hohhof wrote: 
> Yes, but isn’t Webpass new enough at the wireless-to-a-building thing 
> that they haven’t really tested what happens when adoption goes over 
> the first handful of customers within the building? 


Webpass has been doing the building MDU thing via microwave for at least a 
decade before Google came along and bought them. Maximum speed depended on the 
backhaul to the building you were in and what everyone else was doing at the 
moment in your building. 

~Seth 

Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

[Ken Hohhof]

That sounds like when I started in wireless 13 years ago with 2 bonded T1 lines 
to the tower and sold 3 Mbps service.  Worked until Netflix and Youtube came 
along.


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 1:25 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

On 10/27/16 10:37, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> Yes, but isn’t Webpass new enough at the wireless-to-a-building thing 
> that they haven’t really tested what happens when adoption goes over 
> the first handful of customers within the building?


Webpass has been doing the building MDU thing via microwave for at least a 
decade before Google came along and bought them. Maximum speed depended on the 
backhaul to the building you were in and what everyone else was doing at the 
moment in your building.

~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

[Gino Villarini]

We rate limit at the procera. For ring we are using mstp, (small L2 rings, each 
mdu has a vlan that gets encasulated into a vpls once it hits the fiber node)

From: Af <af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on behalf of Chuck 
McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>>
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" 
<af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Date: Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 2:28 PM
To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" <af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more




Gino Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

What are you using for customer control and rate limiting?  I know Netonix 
works well for smaller deployments.
What ring protocol are you using?

From: Gino Villarini
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:27 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

Ken, we have been doing MDUs in PR and FL for about 18 months now. WE are
using AF24 units to each bldg in a ring format with no more of 10 blds in
the ring. Endpoints are fiber pops.  WE sell up to 500 Mbps, usage is in
resitential ins avg 25-30 mbs, we only see 500 mbps whrn they go to the
speed tests sites.

On 10/27/16, 12:47 PM, "Af on behalf of Ken Hohhof" 
<af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>



Gino Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:5CE2F7495C9B4D14AF40F62A14FB4FD0@ChuckMcCownPC]

on behalf of af...@kwisp.com<mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:

>The way I read their change in direction is they are focusing now on high
>rise apartment and office buildings where they can beam bandwidth to the
>rooftop.  No more gigabit to individual homes.  Not a Vivint play.  Maybe
>I'm wrong.
>
>As far as 250 people all expecting a gig, not sure what they are planning.
>Maybe they figure there's enough spectrum in millimeter wave to do
>whatever
>they need to do.  Maybe creative marketing.  Let's face it, most big ISPs
>now sell best effort speeds.  Well, to residential.  Businesses may still
>expect to actually get what they were promised and maybe even to actually
>use it.
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
>Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:32 AM
>To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
>
>But how about microwave to the home?  That is what people expect when they
>hear Google is coming to town.  GigE to the home.  I think the MTU market
>may eventually struggle with getting enough BW via microwave as well.
>With
>an apartment building with 250 people all expecting a gig, hard to do with
>microwave.
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Ken Hohhof
>Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 10:27 AM
>To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
>
>Microwave to MTU/MDU rooftop.  Proven business model.  Ask Teligent,
>Winstar, Nextlink.  In fairness, now almost 20 years later, there is more
>demand for what they are selling.  But also more competition.
>
>And it's not like nobody is doing this already.  Like in Chicago SilverIP
>comes to mind.
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
>Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:05 AM
>To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
>
>I predict the PhD syndrome is going to also affect the wireless end.
>Vivant
>tried and failed.
>
>30 somethings that slept through physics are going to run up against the
>hard limits of trees, hills and rain.
>
>Doesn't matter how crazy the radio is, they will learn as everyone that
>tries RF distribution learns.
>
>5 years they will be back to fiber.  Or deciding not to be part of the
>transport solution.
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Robert
>Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:49 AM
>To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
>
>Phd syndrome...  Getting an advanced degree at a big Uni gives you
>almost zero experience in the trenches...   The move to wireless means
>that they can buy their way into the FCC and move down from there...
>
>On 10/27/16 6:40 AM, Brian Webster wrote:
>> I worked directly on the San Jose and Sand Diego projects. I was
>> brought in by one of the main contractors to help reduce costs and
>> increase efficiency. Google had way too many ï¿1Ž230 somethingsï¿1Ž2 who
>> failed to listen to experienced telecom professionals. That was one of
>> their bigg

Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

[Chuck McCown]

What are you using for customer control and rate limiting?  I know Netonix 
works well for smaller deployments.  
What ring protocol are you using?

From: Gino Villarini 
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:27 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

Ken, we have been doing MDUs in PR and FL for about 18 months now. WE are
using AF24 units to each bldg in a ring format with no more of 10 blds in
the ring. Endpoints are fiber pops.  WE sell up to 500 Mbps, usage is in
resitential ins avg 25-30 mbs, we only see 500 mbps whrn they go to the
speed tests sites.

On 10/27/16, 12:47 PM, "Af on behalf of Ken Hohhof" <af-boun...@afmug.com



  Gino Villarini
 
  President 
  Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 




on behalf of af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

>The way I read their change in direction is they are focusing now on high
>rise apartment and office buildings where they can beam bandwidth to the
>rooftop.  No more gigabit to individual homes.  Not a Vivint play.  Maybe
>I'm wrong.
>
>As far as 250 people all expecting a gig, not sure what they are planning.
>Maybe they figure there's enough spectrum in millimeter wave to do
>whatever
>they need to do.  Maybe creative marketing.  Let's face it, most big ISPs
>now sell best effort speeds.  Well, to residential.  Businesses may still
>expect to actually get what they were promised and maybe even to actually
>use it.
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
>Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:32 AM
>To: af@afmug.com
>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
>
>But how about microwave to the home?  That is what people expect when they
>hear Google is coming to town.  GigE to the home.  I think the MTU market
>may eventually struggle with getting enough BW via microwave as well.
>With
>an apartment building with 250 people all expecting a gig, hard to do with
>microwave.
>
>-Original Message-----
>From: Ken Hohhof
>Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 10:27 AM
>To: af@afmug.com
>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
>
>Microwave to MTU/MDU rooftop.  Proven business model.  Ask Teligent,
>Winstar, Nextlink.  In fairness, now almost 20 years later, there is more
>demand for what they are selling.  But also more competition.
>
>And it's not like nobody is doing this already.  Like in Chicago SilverIP
>comes to mind.
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
>Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:05 AM
>To: af@afmug.com
>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
>
>I predict the PhD syndrome is going to also affect the wireless end.
>Vivant
>tried and failed.
>
>30 somethings that slept through physics are going to run up against the
>hard limits of trees, hills and rain.
>
>Doesn't matter how crazy the radio is, they will learn as everyone that
>tries RF distribution learns.
>
>5 years they will be back to fiber.  Or deciding not to be part of the
>transport solution.
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Robert
>Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:49 AM
>To: af@afmug.com
>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
>
>Phd syndrome...  Getting an advanced degree at a big Uni gives you
>almost zero experience in the trenches...   The move to wireless means
>that they can buy their way into the FCC and move down from there...
>
>On 10/27/16 6:40 AM, Brian Webster wrote:
>> I worked directly on the San Jose and Sand Diego projects. I was
>> brought in by one of the main contractors to help reduce costs and
>> increase efficiency. Google had way too many ï¿1Ž230 somethingsï¿1Ž2 who
>> failed to listen to experienced telecom professionals. That was one of
>> their biggest faults. It was insane to try and build a network in San
>> Jose that was going to have to be built mostly underground. That
>> market already had new AT U-verse fiber and Time Warner with a very
>> strong network. Heck I could get 100 meg speeds on Wi-Fi at the hotel
>> I stayed in. Their Ego to build in their own backyard was pushing the
>> build more than anything.
>>
>>
>>
>> The concept of cherry picking neighborhoods actually drove costs up.
>> When they wanted a citywide network design, that is what they were
>> delivered, but then try and build out only neighborhoods they wanted
>> while still trying to figure out how much of their backbones, huts and
>> neighborhood distribution system needed to be put in place to service
>> the piecemeal buildout approach, when you were already having to open
>> ditches, while having to be a mostly underground build? Yea that was a
>&

Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

[Seth Mattinen]

On 10/27/16 10:37, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Yes, but isn’t Webpass new enough at the wireless-to-a-building thing
that they haven’t really tested what happens when adoption goes over the
first handful of customers within the building?



Webpass has been doing the building MDU thing via microwave for at least 
a decade before Google came along and bought them. Maximum speed 
depended on the backhaul to the building you were in and what everyone 
else was doing at the moment in your building.


~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

[Gino Villarini]

They offer $60 symetric best effort,  some bldgs is up to 500 mbps or up to 1 
Gig depending on the backhaul they have in place

From: Af <af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on behalf of Ken 
Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com<mailto:af...@kwisp.com>>
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" 
<af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Date: Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 1:37 PM
To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" <af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

Yes, but isn’t Webpass new enough at the wireless-to-a-building thing that they 
haven’t really tested what happens when adoption goes over the first handful of 
customers within the building?

Also, it looks like they sell 100M, 200M, 500M and 1G service, and define speed 
as upload+download on a symmetric service, so 1G would actually be 500M 
symmetric?

I’m also a bit confused about their pricing, they list $60/mo, and then the 
different speeds, so is that the price for the lowest speed?  Seems like some 
creative marketing is involved.


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 12:25 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

Webpass? that¹s the reason they bought it! Proven business model operating
in top cities

On 10/27/16, 12:27 PM, "Af on behalf of Ken Hohhof" 
<af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>



Gino Villarini

President

Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968


[cid:image001.png@01D2304E.DE173190]
on behalf of af...@kwisp.com<mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:

>Microwave to MTU/MDU rooftop.  Proven business model.  Ask Teligent,
>Winstar, Nextlink.  In fairness, now almost 20 years later, there is more
>demand for what they are selling.  But also more competition.
>
>And it's not like nobody is doing this already.  Like in Chicago SilverIP
>comes to mind.
>
>



Gino Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

>-Original Message-
>From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
>Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:05 AM
>To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
>
>I predict the PhD syndrome is going to also affect the wireless end.
>Vivant
>tried and failed.
>
>30 somethings that slept through physics are going to run up against the
>hard limits of trees, hills and rain.
>
>Doesn't matter how crazy the radio is, they will learn as everyone that
>tries RF distribution learns.
>
>5 years they will be back to fiber.  Or deciding not to be part of the
>transport solution.
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Robert
>Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:49 AM
>To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
>
>Phd syndrome...  Getting an advanced degree at a big Uni gives you
>almost zero experience in the trenches...   The move to wireless means
>that they can buy their way into the FCC and move down from there...
>
>On 10/27/16 6:40 AM, Brian Webster wrote:
>> I worked directly on the San Jose and Sand Diego projects. I was
>> brought in by one of the main contractors to help reduce costs and
>> increase efficiency. Google had way too many ï¿1Ž230 somethingsï¿1Ž2 who
>> failed to listen to experienced telecom professionals. That was one of
>> their biggest faults. It was insane to try and build a network in San
>> Jose that was going to have to be built mostly underground. That
>> market already had new AT U-verse fiber and Time Warner with a very
>> strong network. Heck I could get 100 meg speeds on Wi-Fi at the hotel
>> I stayed in. Their Ego to build in their own backyard was pushing the
>> build more than anything.
>>
>>
>>
>> The concept of cherry picking neighborhoods actually drove costs up.
>> When they wanted a citywide network design, that is what they were
>> delivered, but then try and build out only neighborhoods they wanted
>> while still trying to figure out how much of their backbones, huts and
>> neighborhood distribution system needed to be put in place to service
>> the piecemeal buildout approach, when you were already having to open
>> ditches, while having to be a mostly underground build? Yea that was a
>> nightmare too! Then letï¿1Ž2s talk about how they had no clue how hard
>> the MDU market is to secure. They gave no real consideration to
>> existing deals in the buildings, or the cost of having to wire on
>> their own because the building owner did 

Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

[Ken Hohhof]

Yes, but isn’t Webpass new enough at the wireless-to-a-building thing that they 
haven’t really tested what happens when adoption goes over the first handful of 
customers within the building?

 

Also, it looks like they sell 100M, 200M, 500M and 1G service, and define speed 
as upload+download on a symmetric service, so 1G would actually be 500M 
symmetric?

 

I’m also a bit confused about their pricing, they list $60/mo, and then the 
different speeds, so is that the price for the lowest speed?  Seems like some 
creative marketing is involved.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 12:25 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

 

Webpass? that¹s the reason they bought it! Proven business model operating
in top cities

On 10/27/16, 12:27 PM, "Af on behalf of Ken Hohhof" <af-boun...@afmug.com


 

Gino Villarini


President


Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968



on behalf of af...@kwisp.com <mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

>Microwave to MTU/MDU rooftop.  Proven business model.  Ask Teligent,
>Winstar, Nextlink.  In fairness, now almost 20 years later, there is more
>demand for what they are selling.  But also more competition.
>
>And it's not like nobody is doing this already.  Like in Chicago SilverIP
>comes to mind.
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
>Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:05 AM
>To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 
>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
>
>I predict the PhD syndrome is going to also affect the wireless end.
>Vivant
>tried and failed.
>
>30 somethings that slept through physics are going to run up against the
>hard limits of trees, hills and rain.
>
>Doesn't matter how crazy the radio is, they will learn as everyone that
>tries RF distribution learns.
>
>5 years they will be back to fiber.  Or deciding not to be part of the
>transport solution.
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Robert
>Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:49 AM
>To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 
>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
>
>Phd syndrome...  Getting an advanced degree at a big Uni gives you
>almost zero experience in the trenches...   The move to wireless means
>that they can buy their way into the FCC and move down from there...
>
>On 10/27/16 6:40 AM, Brian Webster wrote:
>> I worked directly on the San Jose and Sand Diego projects. I was
>> brought in by one of the main contractors to help reduce costs and
>> increase efficiency. Google had way too many ï¿1Ž230 somethingsï¿1Ž2 who
>> failed to listen to experienced telecom professionals. That was one of
>> their biggest faults. It was insane to try and build a network in San
>> Jose that was going to have to be built mostly underground. That
>> market already had new AT U-verse fiber and Time Warner with a very
>> strong network. Heck I could get 100 meg speeds on Wi-Fi at the hotel
>> I stayed in. Their Ego to build in their own backyard was pushing the
>> build more than anything.
>>
>>
>>
>> The concept of cherry picking neighborhoods actually drove costs up.
>> When they wanted a citywide network design, that is what they were
>> delivered, but then try and build out only neighborhoods they wanted
>> while still trying to figure out how much of their backbones, huts and
>> neighborhood distribution system needed to be put in place to service
>> the piecemeal buildout approach, when you were already having to open
>> ditches, while having to be a mostly underground build? Yea that was a
>> nightmare too! Then letï¿1Ž2s talk about how they had no clue how hard
>> the MDU market is to secure. They gave no real consideration to
>> existing deals in the buildings, or the cost of having to wire on
>> their own because the building owner did not actually own the existing
>> cable plant and such. These projects were not just a simple math problem
>to solve.
>>
>>
>>
>> They naively thought every city was going to welcome them with open
>> arms like Kansas City did. They believed the political hype the
>> politicians told them to lure them to their cities, then when actual
>> laws both of physics and real came in to play, the numbers looked a
>>whole
>lot uglier.
>> Underground building in established cities is a nightmare in both
>> costs, regulations, logistics and amount of work required. Just simple
>> things like trying to gather data on all the existing underground
>> infrastructure (that has no central source of documentation) was
>> painful and costl

Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

[Gino Villarini]

Ken, we have been doing MDUs in PR and FL for about 18 months now. WE are
using AF24 units to each bldg in a ring format with no more of 10 blds in
the ring. Endpoints are fiber pops.  WE sell up to 500 Mbps, usage is in
resitential ins avg 25-30 mbs, we only see 500 mbps whrn they go to the
speed tests sites.

On 10/27/16, 12:47 PM, "Af on behalf of Ken Hohhof" <af-boun...@afmug.com



Gino Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

on behalf of af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

>The way I read their change in direction is they are focusing now on high
>rise apartment and office buildings where they can beam bandwidth to the
>rooftop.  No more gigabit to individual homes.  Not a Vivint play.  Maybe
>I'm wrong.
>
>As far as 250 people all expecting a gig, not sure what they are planning.
>Maybe they figure there's enough spectrum in millimeter wave to do
>whatever
>they need to do.  Maybe creative marketing.  Let's face it, most big ISPs
>now sell best effort speeds.  Well, to residential.  Businesses may still
>expect to actually get what they were promised and maybe even to actually
>use it.
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
>Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:32 AM
>To: af@afmug.com
>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
>
>But how about microwave to the home?  That is what people expect when they
>hear Google is coming to town.  GigE to the home.  I think the MTU market
>may eventually struggle with getting enough BW via microwave as well.
>With
>an apartment building with 250 people all expecting a gig, hard to do with
>microwave.
>
>-Original Message-----
>From: Ken Hohhof
>Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 10:27 AM
>To: af@afmug.com
>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
>
>Microwave to MTU/MDU rooftop.  Proven business model.  Ask Teligent,
>Winstar, Nextlink.  In fairness, now almost 20 years later, there is more
>demand for what they are selling.  But also more competition.
>
>And it's not like nobody is doing this already.  Like in Chicago SilverIP
>comes to mind.
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
>Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:05 AM
>To: af@afmug.com
>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
>
>I predict the PhD syndrome is going to also affect the wireless end.
>Vivant
>tried and failed.
>
>30 somethings that slept through physics are going to run up against the
>hard limits of trees, hills and rain.
>
>Doesn't matter how crazy the radio is, they will learn as everyone that
>tries RF distribution learns.
>
>5 years they will be back to fiber.  Or deciding not to be part of the
>transport solution.
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Robert
>Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:49 AM
>To: af@afmug.com
>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
>
>Phd syndrome...  Getting an advanced degree at a big Uni gives you
>almost zero experience in the trenches...   The move to wireless means
>that they can buy their way into the FCC and move down from there...
>
>On 10/27/16 6:40 AM, Brian Webster wrote:
>> I worked directly on the San Jose and Sand Diego projects. I was
>> brought in by one of the main contractors to help reduce costs and
>> increase efficiency. Google had way too many ï¿1Ž230 somethingsï¿1Ž2 who
>> failed to listen to experienced telecom professionals. That was one of
>> their biggest faults. It was insane to try and build a network in San
>> Jose that was going to have to be built mostly underground. That
>> market already had new AT U-verse fiber and Time Warner with a very
>> strong network. Heck I could get 100 meg speeds on Wi-Fi at the hotel
>> I stayed in. Their Ego to build in their own backyard was pushing the
>> build more than anything.
>>
>>
>>
>> The concept of cherry picking neighborhoods actually drove costs up.
>> When they wanted a citywide network design, that is what they were
>> delivered, but then try and build out only neighborhoods they wanted
>> while still trying to figure out how much of their backbones, huts and
>> neighborhood distribution system needed to be put in place to service
>> the piecemeal buildout approach, when you were already having to open
>> ditches, while having to be a mostly underground build? Yea that was a
>> nightmare too! Then letï¿1Ž2s talk about how they had no clue how hard
>> the MDU market is to secure. They gave no real consideration to
>> existing deals in the buildings, or the cost of having to wire on
>> their own

Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

[Gino Villarini]

Webpass? that¹s the reason they bought it! Proven business model operating
in top cities

On 10/27/16, 12:27 PM, "Af on behalf of Ken Hohhof" <af-boun...@afmug.com



Gino Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

on behalf of af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

>Microwave to MTU/MDU rooftop.  Proven business model.  Ask Teligent,
>Winstar, Nextlink.  In fairness, now almost 20 years later, there is more
>demand for what they are selling.  But also more competition.
>
>And it's not like nobody is doing this already.  Like in Chicago SilverIP
>comes to mind.
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
>Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:05 AM
>To: af@afmug.com
>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
>
>I predict the PhD syndrome is going to also affect the wireless end.
>Vivant
>tried and failed.
>
>30 somethings that slept through physics are going to run up against the
>hard limits of trees, hills and rain.
>
>Doesn't matter how crazy the radio is, they will learn as everyone that
>tries RF distribution learns.
>
>5 years they will be back to fiber.  Or deciding not to be part of the
>transport solution.
>
>-Original Message-----
>From: Robert
>Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:49 AM
>To: af@afmug.com
>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
>
>Phd syndrome...  Getting an advanced degree at a big Uni gives you
>almost zero experience in the trenches...   The move to wireless means
>that they can buy their way into the FCC and move down from there...
>
>On 10/27/16 6:40 AM, Brian Webster wrote:
>> I worked directly on the San Jose and Sand Diego projects. I was
>> brought in by one of the main contractors to help reduce costs and
>> increase efficiency. Google had way too many ï¿1Ž230 somethingsï¿1Ž2 who
>> failed to listen to experienced telecom professionals. That was one of
>> their biggest faults. It was insane to try and build a network in San
>> Jose that was going to have to be built mostly underground. That
>> market already had new AT U-verse fiber and Time Warner with a very
>> strong network. Heck I could get 100 meg speeds on Wi-Fi at the hotel
>> I stayed in. Their Ego to build in their own backyard was pushing the
>> build more than anything.
>>
>>
>>
>> The concept of cherry picking neighborhoods actually drove costs up.
>> When they wanted a citywide network design, that is what they were
>> delivered, but then try and build out only neighborhoods they wanted
>> while still trying to figure out how much of their backbones, huts and
>> neighborhood distribution system needed to be put in place to service
>> the piecemeal buildout approach, when you were already having to open
>> ditches, while having to be a mostly underground build? Yea that was a
>> nightmare too! Then letï¿1Ž2s talk about how they had no clue how hard
>> the MDU market is to secure. They gave no real consideration to
>> existing deals in the buildings, or the cost of having to wire on
>> their own because the building owner did not actually own the existing
>> cable plant and such. These projects were not just a simple math problem
>to solve.
>>
>>
>>
>> They naively thought every city was going to welcome them with open
>> arms like Kansas City did. They believed the political hype the
>> politicians told them to lure them to their cities, then when actual
>> laws both of physics and real came in to play, the numbers looked a
>>whole
>lot uglier.
>> Underground building in established cities is a nightmare in both
>> costs, regulations, logistics and amount of work required. Just simple
>> things like trying to gather data on all the existing underground
>> infrastructure (that has no central source of documentation) was
>> painful and costly. You canï¿1Ž2t get drawings approved without first
>> showing you will not be interfering with existing utilities already
>> underground. In many cases you have to manually locate this stuff and
>> then map it and then do your design around that information. Other
>> issues to overhead builds were poles that would not pass loading
>> calculations, pole owners who were less than cooperative or that
>> pulled out new loading rules that they themselves donï¿1Ž2t follow and
>> you can see where it was not a simple process. The employee count to
>> deal with all of this on a large scale at the pace they wanted to move
>>was
>not small by any stretch.
>>
>>
>>
>> This was not new news. The

Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

[Josh Luthman]

Google get's the gear but Alphabet controls one of the SAS



Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 1:05 PM, George Skorup  wrote:

> So splain me this. If the google is interested in 3.5GHz, and they're also
> going to run one of the SAS's... is that not a conflict of interest? I mean
> I'd hate to go all Trumpian about it, but they could very easily rig the
> system.
>

Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

[George Skorup]

So splain me this. If the google is interested in 3.5GHz, and they're 
also going to run one of the SAS's... is that not a conflict of 
interest? I mean I'd hate to go all Trumpian about it, but they could 
very easily rig the system.

Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

[Rory Conaway]

Low-hanging fruit, MDU's.  Not the same as Vivint.  Vivint went into the 
trenches.

Rory

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 9:48 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

The way I read their change in direction is they are focusing now on high rise 
apartment and office buildings where they can beam bandwidth to the rooftop.  
No more gigabit to individual homes.  Not a Vivint play.  Maybe I'm wrong.

As far as 250 people all expecting a gig, not sure what they are planning.
Maybe they figure there's enough spectrum in millimeter wave to do whatever 
they need to do.  Maybe creative marketing.  Let's face it, most big ISPs now 
sell best effort speeds.  Well, to residential.  Businesses may still expect to 
actually get what they were promised and maybe even to actually use it.

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:32 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

But how about microwave to the home?  That is what people expect when they hear 
Google is coming to town.  GigE to the home.  I think the MTU market may 
eventually struggle with getting enough BW via microwave as well.  With an 
apartment building with 250 people all expecting a gig, hard to do with 
microwave.

-Original Message-
From: Ken Hohhof
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 10:27 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

Microwave to MTU/MDU rooftop.  Proven business model.  Ask Teligent, Winstar, 
Nextlink.  In fairness, now almost 20 years later, there is more demand for 
what they are selling.  But also more competition.

And it's not like nobody is doing this already.  Like in Chicago SilverIP comes 
to mind.


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:05 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

I predict the PhD syndrome is going to also affect the wireless end.  Vivant 
tried and failed.

30 somethings that slept through physics are going to run up against the hard 
limits of trees, hills and rain.

Doesn't matter how crazy the radio is, they will learn as everyone that tries 
RF distribution learns.

5 years they will be back to fiber.  Or deciding not to be part of the 
transport solution.

-Original Message-
From: Robert
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:49 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

Phd syndrome...  Getting an advanced degree at a big Uni gives you
almost zero experience in the trenches...   The move to wireless means
that they can buy their way into the FCC and move down from there...

On 10/27/16 6:40 AM, Brian Webster wrote:
> I worked directly on the San Jose and Sand Diego projects. I was 
> brought in by one of the main contractors to help reduce costs and 
> increase efficiency. Google had way too many �30 somethings� who 
> failed to listen to experienced telecom professionals. That was one of 
> their biggest faults. It was insane to try and build a network in San 
> Jose that was going to have to be built mostly underground. That 
> market already had new AT U-verse fiber and Time Warner with a very 
> strong network. Heck I could get 100 meg speeds on Wi-Fi at the hotel 
> I stayed in. Their Ego to build in their own backyard was pushing the 
> build more than anything.
>
>
>
> The concept of cherry picking neighborhoods actually drove costs up.
> When they wanted a citywide network design, that is what they were 
> delivered, but then try and build out only neighborhoods they wanted 
> while still trying to figure out how much of their backbones, huts and 
> neighborhood distribution system needed to be put in place to service 
> the piecemeal buildout approach, when you were already having to open 
> ditches, while having to be a mostly underground build? Yea that was a 
> nightmare too! Then let�s talk about how they had no clue how hard 
> the MDU market is to secure. They gave no real consideration to 
> existing deals in the buildings, or the cost of having to wire on 
> their own because the building owner did not actually own the existing 
> cable plant and such. These projects were not just a simple math 
> problem
to solve.
>
>
>
> They naively thought every city was going to welcome them with open 
> arms like Kansas City did. They believed the political hype the 
> politicians told them to lure them to their cities, then when actual 
> laws both of physics and real came in to play, the numbers looked a 
> whole
lot uglier.
> Underground building in established cities is a nightmare in both 
> costs, regulations, logistics and amount of work required. Just simple 
> things like tryin

Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

[Travis Johnson]

"Up to" is the key wording... "Up to"


On 10/27/2016 10:32 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
But how about microwave to the home?  That is what people expect when 
they hear Google is coming to town.  GigE to the home.  I think the 
MTU market may eventually struggle with getting enough BW via 
microwave as well.  With an apartment building with 250 people all 
expecting a gig, hard to do with microwave.


-Original Message- From: Ken Hohhof
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 10:27 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

Microwave to MTU/MDU rooftop.  Proven business model.  Ask Teligent,
Winstar, Nextlink.  In fairness, now almost 20 years later, there is more
demand for what they are selling.  But also more competition.

And it's not like nobody is doing this already.  Like in Chicago SilverIP
comes to mind.


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:05 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

I predict the PhD syndrome is going to also affect the wireless end.  
Vivant

tried and failed.

30 somethings that slept through physics are going to run up against the
hard limits of trees, hills and rain.

Doesn't matter how crazy the radio is, they will learn as everyone that
tries RF distribution learns.

5 years they will be back to fiber.  Or deciding not to be part of the
transport solution.

-Original Message-
From: Robert
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:49 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

Phd syndrome...  Getting an advanced degree at a big Uni gives you
almost zero experience in the trenches...   The move to wireless means
that they can buy their way into the FCC and move down from there...

On 10/27/16 6:40 AM, Brian Webster wrote:

I worked directly on the San Jose and Sand Diego projects. I was
brought in by one of the main contractors to help reduce costs and
increase efficiency. Google had way too many �30 somethings� who
failed to listen to experienced telecom professionals. That was one of
their biggest faults. It was insane to try and build a network in San
Jose that was going to have to be built mostly underground. That
market already had new AT U-verse fiber and Time Warner with a very
strong network. Heck I could get 100 meg speeds on Wi-Fi at the hotel
I stayed in. Their Ego to build in their own backyard was pushing the
build more than anything.



The concept of cherry picking neighborhoods actually drove costs up.
When they wanted a citywide network design, that is what they were
delivered, but then try and build out only neighborhoods they wanted
while still trying to figure out how much of their backbones, huts and
neighborhood distribution system needed to be put in place to service
the piecemeal buildout approach, when you were already having to open
ditches, while having to be a mostly underground build? Yea that was a
nightmare too! Then let�s talk about how they had no clue how hard
the MDU market is to secure. They gave no real consideration to
existing deals in the buildings, or the cost of having to wire on
their own because the building owner did not actually own the existing
cable plant and such. These projects were not just a simple math problem

to solve.




They naively thought every city was going to welcome them with open
arms like Kansas City did. They believed the political hype the
politicians told them to lure them to their cities, then when actual
laws both of physics and real came in to play, the numbers looked a 
whole

lot uglier.

Underground building in established cities is a nightmare in both
costs, regulations, logistics and amount of work required. Just simple
things like trying to gather data on all the existing underground
infrastructure (that has no central source of documentation) was
painful and costly. You can�t get drawings approved without first
showing you will not be interfering with existing utilities already
underground. In many cases you have to manually locate this stuff and
then map it and then do your design around that information. Other
issues to overhead builds were poles that would not pass loading
calculations, pole owners who were less than cooperative or that
pulled out new loading rules that they themselves don�t follow and
you can see where it was not a simple process. The employee count to
deal with all of this on a large scale at the pace they wanted to 
move was

not small by any stretch.




This was not new news. They pulled the plug on all of this stuff back
at the beginning of July.



Thank You,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com <http://www.wirelessmapping.com>

www.Broadband-Mapping.com



*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
*Sent:* Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:32 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more



As they should. Don't build 

Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

[Ken Hohhof]

The way I read their change in direction is they are focusing now on high
rise apartment and office buildings where they can beam bandwidth to the
rooftop.  No more gigabit to individual homes.  Not a Vivint play.  Maybe
I'm wrong.

As far as 250 people all expecting a gig, not sure what they are planning.
Maybe they figure there's enough spectrum in millimeter wave to do whatever
they need to do.  Maybe creative marketing.  Let's face it, most big ISPs
now sell best effort speeds.  Well, to residential.  Businesses may still
expect to actually get what they were promised and maybe even to actually
use it.

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:32 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

But how about microwave to the home?  That is what people expect when they
hear Google is coming to town.  GigE to the home.  I think the MTU market
may eventually struggle with getting enough BW via microwave as well.  With
an apartment building with 250 people all expecting a gig, hard to do with
microwave.

-Original Message-
From: Ken Hohhof
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 10:27 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

Microwave to MTU/MDU rooftop.  Proven business model.  Ask Teligent,
Winstar, Nextlink.  In fairness, now almost 20 years later, there is more
demand for what they are selling.  But also more competition.

And it's not like nobody is doing this already.  Like in Chicago SilverIP
comes to mind.


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:05 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

I predict the PhD syndrome is going to also affect the wireless end.  Vivant
tried and failed.

30 somethings that slept through physics are going to run up against the
hard limits of trees, hills and rain.

Doesn't matter how crazy the radio is, they will learn as everyone that
tries RF distribution learns.

5 years they will be back to fiber.  Or deciding not to be part of the
transport solution.

-Original Message-
From: Robert
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:49 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

Phd syndrome...  Getting an advanced degree at a big Uni gives you
almost zero experience in the trenches...   The move to wireless means
that they can buy their way into the FCC and move down from there...

On 10/27/16 6:40 AM, Brian Webster wrote:
> I worked directly on the San Jose and Sand Diego projects. I was 
> brought in by one of the main contractors to help reduce costs and 
> increase efficiency. Google had way too many �30 somethings� who 
> failed to listen to experienced telecom professionals. That was one of 
> their biggest faults. It was insane to try and build a network in San 
> Jose that was going to have to be built mostly underground. That 
> market already had new AT U-verse fiber and Time Warner with a very 
> strong network. Heck I could get 100 meg speeds on Wi-Fi at the hotel 
> I stayed in. Their Ego to build in their own backyard was pushing the 
> build more than anything.
>
>
>
> The concept of cherry picking neighborhoods actually drove costs up.
> When they wanted a citywide network design, that is what they were 
> delivered, but then try and build out only neighborhoods they wanted 
> while still trying to figure out how much of their backbones, huts and 
> neighborhood distribution system needed to be put in place to service 
> the piecemeal buildout approach, when you were already having to open 
> ditches, while having to be a mostly underground build? Yea that was a 
> nightmare too! Then let�s talk about how they had no clue how hard 
> the MDU market is to secure. They gave no real consideration to 
> existing deals in the buildings, or the cost of having to wire on 
> their own because the building owner did not actually own the existing 
> cable plant and such. These projects were not just a simple math 
> problem
to solve.
>
>
>
> They naively thought every city was going to welcome them with open 
> arms like Kansas City did. They believed the political hype the 
> politicians told them to lure them to their cities, then when actual 
> laws both of physics and real came in to play, the numbers looked a 
> whole
lot uglier.
> Underground building in established cities is a nightmare in both 
> costs, regulations, logistics and amount of work required. Just simple 
> things like trying to gather data on all the existing underground 
> infrastructure (that has no central source of documentation) was 
> painful and costly. You can�t get drawings approved without first 
> showing you will not be interfering with existing utilities already 
> underground. In many cases

Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

[Jaime Solorza]

PhD=push here dummy

On Oct 27, 2016 7:49 AM, "Robert" <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote:

> Phd syndrome...  Getting an advanced degree at a big Uni gives you almost
> zero experience in the trenches...   The move to wireless means that they
> can buy their way into the FCC and move down from there...
>
> On 10/27/16 6:40 AM, Brian Webster wrote:
>
>> I worked directly on the San Jose and Sand Diego projects. I was brought
>> in by one of the main contractors to help reduce costs and increase
>> efficiency. Google had way too many �30 somethings� who failed to
>> listen
>> to experienced telecom professionals. That was one of their biggest
>> faults. It was insane to try and build a network in San Jose that was
>> going to have to be built mostly underground. That market already had
>> new AT U-verse fiber and Time Warner with a very strong network. Heck
>> I could get 100 meg speeds on Wi-Fi at the hotel I stayed in. Their Ego
>> to build in their own backyard was pushing the build more than anything.
>>
>>
>>
>> The concept of cherry picking neighborhoods actually drove costs up.
>> When they wanted a citywide network design, that is what they were
>> delivered, but then try and build out only neighborhoods they wanted
>> while still trying to figure out how much of their backbones, huts and
>> neighborhood distribution system needed to be put in place to service
>> the piecemeal buildout approach, when you were already having to open
>> ditches, while having to be a mostly underground build? Yea that was a
>> nightmare too! Then let�s talk about how they had no clue how hard the
>> MDU market is to secure. They gave no real consideration to existing
>> deals in the buildings, or the cost of having to wire on their own
>> because the building owner did not actually own the existing cable plant
>> and such. These projects were not just a simple math problem to solve.
>>
>>
>>
>> They naively thought every city was going to welcome them with open arms
>> like Kansas City did. They believed the political hype the politicians
>> told them to lure them to their cities, then when actual laws both of
>> physics and real came in to play, the numbers looked a whole lot uglier.
>> Underground building in established cities is a nightmare in both costs,
>> regulations, logistics and amount of work required. Just simple things
>> like trying to gather data on all the existing underground
>> infrastructure (that has no central source of documentation) was painful
>> and costly. You can�t get drawings approved without first showing you
>> will not be interfering with existing utilities already underground. In
>> many cases you have to manually locate this stuff and then map it and
>> then do your design around that information. Other issues to overhead
>> builds were poles that would not pass loading calculations, pole owners
>> who were less than cooperative or that pulled out new loading rules that
>> they themselves don�t follow and you can see where it was not a simple
>> process. The employee count to deal with all of this on a large scale at
>> the pace they wanted to move was not small by any stretch.
>>
>>
>>
>> This was not new news. They pulled the plug on all of this stuff back at
>> the beginning of July.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank You,
>>
>> Brian Webster
>>
>> www.wirelessmapping.com <http://www.wirelessmapping.com>
>>
>> www.Broadband-Mapping.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:32 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
>>
>>
>>
>> As they should. Don't build where people who can't pay or don't want
>> your service.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+In
>> telligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/
>> company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.
>> com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNy

Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

[Chuck McCown]

But how about microwave to the home?  That is what people expect when they 
hear Google is coming to town.  GigE to the home.  I think the MTU market 
may eventually struggle with getting enough BW via microwave as well.  With 
an apartment building with 250 people all expecting a gig, hard to do with 
microwave.


-Original Message- 
From: Ken Hohhof

Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 10:27 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

Microwave to MTU/MDU rooftop.  Proven business model.  Ask Teligent,
Winstar, Nextlink.  In fairness, now almost 20 years later, there is more
demand for what they are selling.  But also more competition.

And it's not like nobody is doing this already.  Like in Chicago SilverIP
comes to mind.


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:05 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

I predict the PhD syndrome is going to also affect the wireless end.  Vivant
tried and failed.

30 somethings that slept through physics are going to run up against the
hard limits of trees, hills and rain.

Doesn't matter how crazy the radio is, they will learn as everyone that
tries RF distribution learns.

5 years they will be back to fiber.  Or deciding not to be part of the
transport solution.

-Original Message-
From: Robert
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:49 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

Phd syndrome...  Getting an advanced degree at a big Uni gives you
almost zero experience in the trenches...   The move to wireless means
that they can buy their way into the FCC and move down from there...

On 10/27/16 6:40 AM, Brian Webster wrote:

I worked directly on the San Jose and Sand Diego projects. I was
brought in by one of the main contractors to help reduce costs and
increase efficiency. Google had way too many �30 somethings� who
failed to listen to experienced telecom professionals. That was one of
their biggest faults. It was insane to try and build a network in San
Jose that was going to have to be built mostly underground. That
market already had new AT U-verse fiber and Time Warner with a very
strong network. Heck I could get 100 meg speeds on Wi-Fi at the hotel
I stayed in. Their Ego to build in their own backyard was pushing the
build more than anything.



The concept of cherry picking neighborhoods actually drove costs up.
When they wanted a citywide network design, that is what they were
delivered, but then try and build out only neighborhoods they wanted
while still trying to figure out how much of their backbones, huts and
neighborhood distribution system needed to be put in place to service
the piecemeal buildout approach, when you were already having to open
ditches, while having to be a mostly underground build? Yea that was a
nightmare too! Then let�s talk about how they had no clue how hard
the MDU market is to secure. They gave no real consideration to
existing deals in the buildings, or the cost of having to wire on
their own because the building owner did not actually own the existing
cable plant and such. These projects were not just a simple math problem

to solve.




They naively thought every city was going to welcome them with open
arms like Kansas City did. They believed the political hype the
politicians told them to lure them to their cities, then when actual
laws both of physics and real came in to play, the numbers looked a whole

lot uglier.

Underground building in established cities is a nightmare in both
costs, regulations, logistics and amount of work required. Just simple
things like trying to gather data on all the existing underground
infrastructure (that has no central source of documentation) was
painful and costly. You can�t get drawings approved without first
showing you will not be interfering with existing utilities already
underground. In many cases you have to manually locate this stuff and
then map it and then do your design around that information. Other
issues to overhead builds were poles that would not pass loading
calculations, pole owners who were less than cooperative or that
pulled out new loading rules that they themselves don�t follow and
you can see where it was not a simple process. The employee count to
deal with all of this on a large scale at the pace they wanted to move was

not small by any stretch.




This was not new news. They pulled the plug on all of this stuff back
at the beginning of July.



Thank You,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com <http://www.wirelessmapping.com>

www.Broadband-Mapping.com



*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
*Sent:* Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:32 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more



As they should. Don't build where people who can't pay or don't want
your service.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http:

Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

[Ken Hohhof]

Microwave to MTU/MDU rooftop.  Proven business model.  Ask Teligent,
Winstar, Nextlink.  In fairness, now almost 20 years later, there is more
demand for what they are selling.  But also more competition.

And it's not like nobody is doing this already.  Like in Chicago SilverIP
comes to mind.


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:05 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

I predict the PhD syndrome is going to also affect the wireless end.  Vivant
tried and failed.

30 somethings that slept through physics are going to run up against the
hard limits of trees, hills and rain.

Doesn't matter how crazy the radio is, they will learn as everyone that
tries RF distribution learns.

5 years they will be back to fiber.  Or deciding not to be part of the
transport solution.

-Original Message-
From: Robert
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:49 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

Phd syndrome...  Getting an advanced degree at a big Uni gives you
almost zero experience in the trenches...   The move to wireless means
that they can buy their way into the FCC and move down from there...

On 10/27/16 6:40 AM, Brian Webster wrote:
> I worked directly on the San Jose and Sand Diego projects. I was 
> brought in by one of the main contractors to help reduce costs and 
> increase efficiency. Google had way too many �30 somethings� who 
> failed to listen to experienced telecom professionals. That was one of 
> their biggest faults. It was insane to try and build a network in San 
> Jose that was going to have to be built mostly underground. That 
> market already had new AT U-verse fiber and Time Warner with a very 
> strong network. Heck I could get 100 meg speeds on Wi-Fi at the hotel 
> I stayed in. Their Ego to build in their own backyard was pushing the 
> build more than anything.
>
>
>
> The concept of cherry picking neighborhoods actually drove costs up.
> When they wanted a citywide network design, that is what they were 
> delivered, but then try and build out only neighborhoods they wanted 
> while still trying to figure out how much of their backbones, huts and 
> neighborhood distribution system needed to be put in place to service 
> the piecemeal buildout approach, when you were already having to open 
> ditches, while having to be a mostly underground build? Yea that was a 
> nightmare too! Then let�s talk about how they had no clue how hard 
> the MDU market is to secure. They gave no real consideration to 
> existing deals in the buildings, or the cost of having to wire on 
> their own because the building owner did not actually own the existing 
> cable plant and such. These projects were not just a simple math problem
to solve.
>
>
>
> They naively thought every city was going to welcome them with open 
> arms like Kansas City did. They believed the political hype the 
> politicians told them to lure them to their cities, then when actual 
> laws both of physics and real came in to play, the numbers looked a whole
lot uglier.
> Underground building in established cities is a nightmare in both 
> costs, regulations, logistics and amount of work required. Just simple 
> things like trying to gather data on all the existing underground 
> infrastructure (that has no central source of documentation) was 
> painful and costly. You can�t get drawings approved without first 
> showing you will not be interfering with existing utilities already 
> underground. In many cases you have to manually locate this stuff and 
> then map it and then do your design around that information. Other 
> issues to overhead builds were poles that would not pass loading 
> calculations, pole owners who were less than cooperative or that 
> pulled out new loading rules that they themselves don�t follow and 
> you can see where it was not a simple process. The employee count to 
> deal with all of this on a large scale at the pace they wanted to move was
not small by any stretch.
>
>
>
> This was not new news. They pulled the plug on all of this stuff back 
> at the beginning of July.
>
>
>
> Thank You,
>
> Brian Webster
>
> www.wirelessmapping.com <http://www.wirelessmapping.com>
>
> www.Broadband-Mapping.com
>
>
>
> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:32 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
>
>
>
> As they should. Don't build where people who can't pay or don't want 
> your service.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> 
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>&

Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

[Chuck McCown]

I predict the PhD syndrome is going to also affect the wireless end.  Vivant 
tried and failed.


30 somethings that slept through physics are going to run up against the 
hard limits of trees, hills and rain.


Doesn't matter how crazy the radio is, they will learn as everyone that 
tries RF distribution learns.


5 years they will be back to fiber.  Or deciding not to be part of the 
transport solution.


-Original Message- 
From: Robert

Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:49 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

Phd syndrome...  Getting an advanced degree at a big Uni gives you
almost zero experience in the trenches...   The move to wireless means
that they can buy their way into the FCC and move down from there...

On 10/27/16 6:40 AM, Brian Webster wrote:

I worked directly on the San Jose and Sand Diego projects. I was brought
in by one of the main contractors to help reduce costs and increase
efficiency. Google had way too many �30 somethings� who failed to 
listen

to experienced telecom professionals. That was one of their biggest
faults. It was insane to try and build a network in San Jose that was
going to have to be built mostly underground. That market already had
new AT U-verse fiber and Time Warner with a very strong network. Heck
I could get 100 meg speeds on Wi-Fi at the hotel I stayed in. Their Ego
to build in their own backyard was pushing the build more than anything.



The concept of cherry picking neighborhoods actually drove costs up.
When they wanted a citywide network design, that is what they were
delivered, but then try and build out only neighborhoods they wanted
while still trying to figure out how much of their backbones, huts and
neighborhood distribution system needed to be put in place to service
the piecemeal buildout approach, when you were already having to open
ditches, while having to be a mostly underground build? Yea that was a
nightmare too! Then let�s talk about how they had no clue how hard the
MDU market is to secure. They gave no real consideration to existing
deals in the buildings, or the cost of having to wire on their own
because the building owner did not actually own the existing cable plant
and such. These projects were not just a simple math problem to solve.



They naively thought every city was going to welcome them with open arms
like Kansas City did. They believed the political hype the politicians
told them to lure them to their cities, then when actual laws both of
physics and real came in to play, the numbers looked a whole lot uglier.
Underground building in established cities is a nightmare in both costs,
regulations, logistics and amount of work required. Just simple things
like trying to gather data on all the existing underground
infrastructure (that has no central source of documentation) was painful
and costly. You can�t get drawings approved without first showing you
will not be interfering with existing utilities already underground. In
many cases you have to manually locate this stuff and then map it and
then do your design around that information. Other issues to overhead
builds were poles that would not pass loading calculations, pole owners
who were less than cooperative or that pulled out new loading rules that
they themselves don�t follow and you can see where it was not a simple
process. The employee count to deal with all of this on a large scale at
the pace they wanted to move was not small by any stretch.



This was not new news. They pulled the plug on all of this stuff back at
the beginning of July.



Thank You,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com <http://www.wirelessmapping.com>

www.Broadband-Mapping.com



*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
*Sent:* Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:32 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more



As they should. Don't build where people who can't pay or don't want
your service.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>



*From: *"Rory Conaway" <r...@triadwireless.net
<mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>>
*To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent: *Wednesday, October 26, 2016 11:28:52 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

In other cities, the

Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

[Robert]

Phd syndrome...  Getting an advanced degree at a big Uni gives you 
almost zero experience in the trenches...   The move to wireless means 
that they can buy their way into the FCC and move down from there...


On 10/27/16 6:40 AM, Brian Webster wrote:

I worked directly on the San Jose and Sand Diego projects. I was brought
in by one of the main contractors to help reduce costs and increase
efficiency. Google had way too many �30 somethings� who failed to listen
to experienced telecom professionals. That was one of their biggest
faults. It was insane to try and build a network in San Jose that was
going to have to be built mostly underground. That market already had
new AT U-verse fiber and Time Warner with a very strong network. Heck
I could get 100 meg speeds on Wi-Fi at the hotel I stayed in. Their Ego
to build in their own backyard was pushing the build more than anything.



The concept of cherry picking neighborhoods actually drove costs up.
When they wanted a citywide network design, that is what they were
delivered, but then try and build out only neighborhoods they wanted
while still trying to figure out how much of their backbones, huts and
neighborhood distribution system needed to be put in place to service
the piecemeal buildout approach, when you were already having to open
ditches, while having to be a mostly underground build? Yea that was a
nightmare too! Then let�s talk about how they had no clue how hard the
MDU market is to secure. They gave no real consideration to existing
deals in the buildings, or the cost of having to wire on their own
because the building owner did not actually own the existing cable plant
and such. These projects were not just a simple math problem to solve.



They naively thought every city was going to welcome them with open arms
like Kansas City did. They believed the political hype the politicians
told them to lure them to their cities, then when actual laws both of
physics and real came in to play, the numbers looked a whole lot uglier.
Underground building in established cities is a nightmare in both costs,
regulations, logistics and amount of work required. Just simple things
like trying to gather data on all the existing underground
infrastructure (that has no central source of documentation) was painful
and costly. You can�t get drawings approved without first showing you
will not be interfering with existing utilities already underground. In
many cases you have to manually locate this stuff and then map it and
then do your design around that information. Other issues to overhead
builds were poles that would not pass loading calculations, pole owners
who were less than cooperative or that pulled out new loading rules that
they themselves don�t follow and you can see where it was not a simple
process. The employee count to deal with all of this on a large scale at
the pace they wanted to move was not small by any stretch.



This was not new news. They pulled the plug on all of this stuff back at
the beginning of July.



Thank You,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com <http://www.wirelessmapping.com>

www.Broadband-Mapping.com



*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
*Sent:* Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:32 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more



As they should. Don't build where people who can't pay or don't want
your service.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>



*From: *"Rory Conaway" <r...@triadwireless.net
<mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>>
*To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent: *Wednesday, October 26, 2016 11:28:52 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

In other cities, they cherry picked.



Rory



*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Sterling Jacobson
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 26, 2016 7:00 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more



From the director of one of the Google Fiber builds (in Provo) that is
not the case.



He said they overspent on contractors MAJORLY.

And that was just to expand the existing network to all homes in that area.



He argued with his bosses about he extravagant added fees on
construction but they just said to pay

Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

[Brian Webster]

I worked directly on the San Jose and Sand Diego projects. I was brought in by 
one of the main contractors to help reduce costs and increase efficiency. 
Google had way too many “30 somethings” who failed to listen to experienced 
telecom professionals. That was one of their biggest faults. It was insane to 
try and build a network in San Jose that was going to have to be built mostly 
underground. That market already had new AT U-verse fiber and Time Warner 
with a very strong network. Heck I could get 100 meg speeds on Wi-Fi at the 
hotel I stayed in. Their Ego to build in their own backyard was pushing the 
build more than anything. 

 

The concept of cherry picking neighborhoods actually drove costs up. When they 
wanted a citywide network design, that is what they were delivered, but then 
try and build out only neighborhoods they wanted while still trying to figure 
out how much of their backbones, huts and neighborhood distribution system 
needed to be put in place to service the piecemeal buildout approach, when you 
were already having to open ditches, while having to be a mostly underground 
build? Yea that was a nightmare too! Then let’s talk about how they had no clue 
how hard the MDU market is to secure. They gave no real consideration to 
existing deals in the buildings, or the cost of having to wire on their own 
because the building owner did not actually own the existing cable plant and 
such. These projects were not just a simple math problem to solve. 

 

They naively thought every city was going to welcome them with open arms like 
Kansas City did. They believed the political hype the politicians told them to 
lure them to their cities, then when actual laws both of physics and real came 
in to play, the numbers looked a whole lot uglier. Underground building in 
established cities is a nightmare in both costs, regulations, logistics and 
amount of work required. Just simple things like trying to gather data on all 
the existing underground infrastructure (that has no central source of 
documentation) was painful and costly. You can’t get drawings approved without 
first showing you will not be interfering with existing utilities already 
underground. In many cases you have to manually locate this stuff and then map 
it and then do your design around that information. Other issues to overhead 
builds were poles that would not pass loading calculations, pole owners who 
were less than cooperative or that pulled out new loading rules that they 
themselves don’t follow and you can see where it was not a simple process. The 
employee count to deal with all of this on a large scale at the pace they 
wanted to move was not small by any stretch.

 

This was not new news. They pulled the plug on all of this stuff back at the 
beginning of July.

 

Thank You,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

www.Broadband-Mapping.com

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:32 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

 

As they should. Don't build where people who can't pay or don't want your 
service.



-
Mike Hammett
 <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions
 <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>  
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>  
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> 
 <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange
 <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>  
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> 
 <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP
 <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>  
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> 




  _  

From: "Rory Conaway" <r...@triadwireless.net>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 11:28:52 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

In other cities, they cherry picked.

 

Rory

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 7:00 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

 

>From the director of one of the Google Fiber builds (in Provo) that is not the 
>case.

 

He said they overspent on contractors MAJORLY.

And that was just to expand the existing network to all homes in that area.

 

He argued with his bosses about he extravagant added fees on construction but 
they just said to pay them, no questions asked.

 

I had some of those figures from him at that conversation and some costs were 
over 80x what it should have been.

 

My best guess is that all the fiber build in certain areas increased the 
contract cost of build into the stratosphere.

 

And now they are reigning it in and going wireless to attempt to defray the 
costs.

 

At least with Provo they were not al

Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

[Mike Hammett]

As they should. Don't build where people who can't pay or don't want your 
service. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Rory Conaway" <r...@triadwireless.net> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 11:28:52 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more 



In other cities, they cherry picked. 

Rory 



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson 
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 7:00 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more 

>From the director of one of the Google Fiber builds (in Provo) that is not the 
>case. 

He said they overspent on contractors MAJORLY. 
And that was just to expand the existing network to all homes in that area. 

He argued with his bosses about he extravagant added fees on construction but 
they just said to pay them, no questions asked. 

I had some of those figures from him at that conversation and some costs were 
over 80x what it should have been. 

My best guess is that all the fiber build in certain areas increased the 
contract cost of build into the stratosphere. 

And now they are reigning it in and going wireless to attempt to defray the 
costs. 

At least with Provo they were not allowed to cherry pick, it was build 
everyone. 
And it seems like they picked up a large portion of the communities, but I 
didn’t get overall take rate. 



From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway 
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 12:56 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more 

Absolutely they cherry picked. Then they went into MDU’s for pennies and lost 
their shirts. 

Rory 

From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 9:34 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more 

I'd love to see their overall take rates. I have heard numbers of 75-85% in 
more affluent areas. They cherry picked neighborhoods for sure though. 



On Oct 25, 2016 10:15 PM, "Rory Conaway" < r...@triadwireless.net > wrote: 


Big surprise there. They built it and no one came. 

Rory 



From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Tushar Patel 
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 7:14 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more 


Their contractor are still hiring installer in Austin. 



Need to probably understand why those cities not others? 

Tushar 




On Oct 25, 2016, at 9:06 PM, Josh Reynolds < j...@kyneticwifi.com > wrote: 



New ones. They're still deploying existing networks. They just opened up a few 
new areas in Kansas City recently. 



On Oct 25, 2016 9:03 PM, "Jaime Solorza" < losguyswirel...@gmail.com > wrote: 


Moving folks to wireless Aye Dios 



On Oct 25, 2016 7:56 PM, "Gino Villarini" < ginovi...@gmail.com > wrote: 


https://gizmodo.com/google-fiber-halts-operations-in-ten-cities-1788214992?rev=1477443092657_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_facebook_source=gizmodo_facebook_medium=socialflow
 

Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

[Rory Conaway]

In other cities, they cherry picked.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 7:00 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

From the director of one of the Google Fiber builds (in Provo) that is not the 
case.

He said they overspent on contractors MAJORLY.
And that was just to expand the existing network to all homes in that area.

He argued with his bosses about he extravagant added fees on construction but 
they just said to pay them, no questions asked.

I had some of those figures from him at that conversation and some costs were 
over 80x what it should have been.

My best guess is that all the fiber build in certain areas increased the 
contract cost of build into the stratosphere.

And now they are reigning it in and going wireless to attempt to defray the 
costs.

At least with Provo they were not allowed to cherry pick, it was build everyone.
And it seems like they picked up a large portion of the communities, but I 
didn’t get overall take rate.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 12:56 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

Absolutely they cherry picked.  Then they went into MDU’s for pennies and lost 
their shirts.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 9:34 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more


I'd love to see their overall take rates. I have heard numbers of 75-85% in 
more affluent areas. They cherry picked neighborhoods for sure though.

On Oct 25, 2016 10:15 PM, "Rory Conaway" 
<r...@triadwireless.net<mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>> wrote:
Big surprise there.  They built it and no one came.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of Tushar Patel
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 7:14 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

Their contractor are still hiring installer in Austin.

Need to probably understand why those cities not others?

Tushar


On Oct 25, 2016, at 9:06 PM, Josh Reynolds 
<j...@kyneticwifi.com<mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>> wrote:

New ones. They're still deploying existing networks. They just opened up a few 
new areas in Kansas City recently.

On Oct 25, 2016 9:03 PM, "Jaime Solorza" 
<losguyswirel...@gmail.com<mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Moving folks to wireless Aye Dios

On Oct 25, 2016 7:56 PM, "Gino Villarini" 
<ginovi...@gmail.com<mailto:ginovi...@gmail.com>> wrote:
https://gizmodo.com/google-fiber-halts-operations-in-ten-cities-1788214992?rev=1477443092657_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_facebook_source=gizmodo_facebook_medium=socialflow

Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

[Sterling Jacobson]

From the director of one of the Google Fiber builds (in Provo) that is not the 
case.

He said they overspent on contractors MAJORLY.
And that was just to expand the existing network to all homes in that area.

He argued with his bosses about he extravagant added fees on construction but 
they just said to pay them, no questions asked.

I had some of those figures from him at that conversation and some costs were 
over 80x what it should have been.

My best guess is that all the fiber build in certain areas increased the 
contract cost of build into the stratosphere.

And now they are reigning it in and going wireless to attempt to defray the 
costs.

At least with Provo they were not allowed to cherry pick, it was build everyone.
And it seems like they picked up a large portion of the communities, but I 
didn’t get overall take rate.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 12:56 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

Absolutely they cherry picked.  Then they went into MDU’s for pennies and lost 
their shirts.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 9:34 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more


I'd love to see their overall take rates. I have heard numbers of 75-85% in 
more affluent areas. They cherry picked neighborhoods for sure though.

On Oct 25, 2016 10:15 PM, "Rory Conaway" 
<r...@triadwireless.net<mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>> wrote:
Big surprise there.  They built it and no one came.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of Tushar Patel
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 7:14 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

Their contractor are still hiring installer in Austin.

Need to probably understand why those cities not others?

Tushar


On Oct 25, 2016, at 9:06 PM, Josh Reynolds 
<j...@kyneticwifi.com<mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>> wrote:

New ones. They're still deploying existing networks. They just opened up a few 
new areas in Kansas City recently.

On Oct 25, 2016 9:03 PM, "Jaime Solorza" 
<losguyswirel...@gmail.com<mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Moving folks to wireless Aye Dios

On Oct 25, 2016 7:56 PM, "Gino Villarini" 
<ginovi...@gmail.com<mailto:ginovi...@gmail.com>> wrote:
https://gizmodo.com/google-fiber-halts-operations-in-ten-cities-1788214992?rev=1477443092657_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_facebook_source=gizmodo_facebook_medium=socialflow

Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

[Mike Hammett]

I don't think that's true. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Rory Conaway" <r...@triadwireless.net> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 10:15:32 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more 



Big surprise there. They built it and no one came. 

Rory 



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Tushar Patel 
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 7:14 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more 


Their contractor are still hiring installer in Austin. 



Need to probably understand why those cities not others? 

Tushar 




On Oct 25, 2016, at 9:06 PM, Josh Reynolds < j...@kyneticwifi.com > wrote: 



New ones. They're still deploying existing networks. They just opened up a few 
new areas in Kansas City recently. 



On Oct 25, 2016 9:03 PM, "Jaime Solorza" < losguyswirel...@gmail.com > wrote: 


Moving folks to wireless Aye Dios 



On Oct 25, 2016 7:56 PM, "Gino Villarini" < ginovi...@gmail.com > wrote: 


https://gizmodo.com/google-fiber-halts-operations-in-ten-cities-1788214992?rev=1477443092657_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_facebook_source=gizmodo_facebook_medium=socialflow
 

Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

[Rory Conaway]

Absolutely they cherry picked.  Then they went into MDU’s for pennies and lost 
their shirts.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 9:34 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more


I'd love to see their overall take rates. I have heard numbers of 75-85% in 
more affluent areas. They cherry picked neighborhoods for sure though.

On Oct 25, 2016 10:15 PM, "Rory Conaway" 
<r...@triadwireless.net<mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>> wrote:
Big surprise there.  They built it and no one came.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of Tushar Patel
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 7:14 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

Their contractor are still hiring installer in Austin.

Need to probably understand why those cities not others?

Tushar


On Oct 25, 2016, at 9:06 PM, Josh Reynolds 
<j...@kyneticwifi.com<mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>> wrote:

New ones. They're still deploying existing networks. They just opened up a few 
new areas in Kansas City recently.

On Oct 25, 2016 9:03 PM, "Jaime Solorza" 
<losguyswirel...@gmail.com<mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Moving folks to wireless Aye Dios

On Oct 25, 2016 7:56 PM, "Gino Villarini" 
<ginovi...@gmail.com<mailto:ginovi...@gmail.com>> wrote:
https://gizmodo.com/google-fiber-halts-operations-in-ten-cities-1788214992?rev=1477443092657_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_facebook_source=gizmodo_facebook_medium=socialflow

Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

[Josh Reynolds]

I'd love to see their overall take rates. I have heard numbers of 75-85% in
more affluent areas. They cherry picked neighborhoods for sure though.

On Oct 25, 2016 10:15 PM, "Rory Conaway" <r...@triadwireless.net> wrote:

> Big surprise there.  They built it and no one came.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Tushar Patel
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 7:14 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
>
>
>
> Their contractor are still hiring installer in Austin.
>
>
>
> Need to probably understand why those cities not others?
>
> Tushar
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 25, 2016, at 9:06 PM, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com> wrote:
>
> New ones. They're still deploying existing networks. They just opened up a
> few new areas in Kansas City recently.
>
>
>
> On Oct 25, 2016 9:03 PM, "Jaime Solorza" <losguyswirel...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Moving folks to wireless Aye Dios
>
>
>
> On Oct 25, 2016 7:56 PM, "Gino Villarini" <ginovi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> https://gizmodo.com/google-fiber-halts-operations-in-ten-
> cities-1788214992?rev=1477443092657_campaign=
> socialflow_gizmodo_facebook_source=gizmodo_facebook&
> utm_medium=socialflow
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

[Rory Conaway]

Big surprise there.  They built it and no one came.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Tushar Patel
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 7:14 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

Their contractor are still hiring installer in Austin.

Need to probably understand why those cities not others?

Tushar


On Oct 25, 2016, at 9:06 PM, Josh Reynolds 
<j...@kyneticwifi.com<mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>> wrote:

New ones. They're still deploying existing networks. They just opened up a few 
new areas in Kansas City recently.

On Oct 25, 2016 9:03 PM, "Jaime Solorza" 
<losguyswirel...@gmail.com<mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Moving folks to wireless Aye Dios

On Oct 25, 2016 7:56 PM, "Gino Villarini" 
<ginovi...@gmail.com<mailto:ginovi...@gmail.com>> wrote:
https://gizmodo.com/google-fiber-halts-operations-in-ten-cities-1788214992?rev=1477443092657_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_facebook_source=gizmodo_facebook_medium=socialflow

Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

[Tushar Patel]

Their contractor are still hiring installer in Austin.

Need to probably understand why those cities not others? 

Tushar


> On Oct 25, 2016, at 9:06 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:
> 
> New ones. They're still deploying existing networks. They just opened up a 
> few new areas in Kansas City recently.
> 
> 
>> On Oct 25, 2016 9:03 PM, "Jaime Solorza"  wrote:
>> Moving folks to wireless Aye Dios
>> 
>> 
>>> On Oct 25, 2016 7:56 PM, "Gino Villarini"  wrote:
>>> https://gizmodo.com/google-fiber-halts-operations-in-ten-cities-1788214992?rev=1477443092657_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_facebook_source=gizmodo_facebook_medium=socialflow

Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

[Josh Reynolds]

New ones. They're still deploying existing networks. They just opened up a
few new areas in Kansas City recently.

On Oct 25, 2016 9:03 PM, "Jaime Solorza"  wrote:

> Moving folks to wireless Aye Dios
>
> On Oct 25, 2016 7:56 PM, "Gino Villarini"  wrote:
>
>> https://gizmodo.com/google-fiber-halts-operations-in-ten-cit
>> ies-1788214992?rev=1477443092657_campaign=socialflow_
>> gizmodo_facebook_source=gizmodo_facebook_medium=socialflow
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

[Jaime Solorza]

Moving folks to wireless Aye Dios

On Oct 25, 2016 7:56 PM, "Gino Villarini"  wrote:

> https://gizmodo.com/google-fiber-halts-operations-in-ten-
> cities-1788214992?rev=1477443092657_campaign=
> socialflow_gizmodo_facebook_source=gizmodo_facebook&
> utm_medium=socialflow

Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

bloat isnt survivable? I thought that was a basic tenet of successful
ventures

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 8:56 PM, Gino Villarini  wrote:

> https://gizmodo.com/google-fiber-halts-operations-in-ten-
> cities-1788214992?rev=1477443092657_campaign=
> socialflow_gizmodo_facebook_source=gizmodo_facebook&
> utm_medium=socialflow




-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

[AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

[Gino Villarini]

https://gizmodo.com/google-fiber-halts-operations-in-ten-cities-1788214992?rev=1477443092657_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_facebook_source=gizmodo_facebook_medium=socialflow