Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)
Depends on the wording of the lease. This is why attorneys exist. LOL. I had a grain leg owner years ago build a new, taller leg right next to the one I was and rent space to a competitor. My lease did not specify the wording of “tower” enough so I was advised was all legit. From that point on all my leases had more verbage about such things. Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net www.mtin.net www.midwest-ix.com > On Jun 28, 2017, at 2:52 PM, Mitch Koep wrote: > > And your question is? > > > On 6/27/2017 11:05 PM, Steve Jones wrote: >> I am not asking about any FCC Part X rules, I know this isn't an FCC issue >> under any circumstances. >> >> We have leases with all our POP landlords, in the lease we own the site >> spectrum, with the exception of very few locations we don't collocate, just >> not worth the hassle. >> >> I come rolling up on a site today, 100 feet from our POP is a new POP, not >> us, cause though I used to enjoy spooning some powder with baking soda, I >> don't smoke crack, POP#2 isn't ours, even though its on the same property, >> Id recall a full EPMP and backhaul deployment. >> >> I'm an honest operator, very honest, like the first time UBT sent us new >> stickers for spectrum I made sure we actually put them out (be honest, >> pretty much NOBODY did that) I turn down power where we don't need it. I do >> my best to make sure we are compliant. I fought bosses to remove non >> compliant stuff I put up before I knew better. For the most part, I'm a good >> fucking neighbor, ask anybody abutting me. (with the exception of one >> location I collocate where I'm a dick, but a legal dick) >> >> So you can understand my dismay, being the pillar of the spectrum community >> Ive tried to be (also found out today I inadvertently fucked a fellow wisp >> on a bad choice I made with no follow up, I owned it with him and will be >> working on fixing that as of tomorrow) >> >> I approach everything with combat boots, assuming a battle. I'm guessing >> when it gets in the database this backhaul is going to be UBNT 11ghz, or >> some other nonsense (probably affiliated with the over wind loaded tower 3/4 >> miles away with 3, yes 3, UBNT 5ghz peanut shaped airfibers within 8 feet of >> one another (one link, one side points to the sky the other side points to >> the dirt) >> >> The question I have is about lease rules, and contract law, which the bulk >> of you old timers has dealt with. If the other operator (if its who I >> suspect it is, they use fuckery, like the UBNT demo mode, or whatever its >> called and other such garbage to even operate overpowered in DFS channels) >> doesn't want to play ball, as in "shut that shit off" will we be able to >> fight it? >> >> I know what went down, and how it went down, and I suspect I know who it is. >> The usual, guy approaches a site owner, offers unrealistic unicorn farts, >> unicorn farts always win, spectrum gets fucked. >> >> We do 5 year auto renewing leases, with 2 year breakouts. (you guys would >> likely cream your jeans seeing our lease, and though Ive asked, no I cant >> share it publicly, and yes, it was drawn up by an attorney) we get full >> control of the 5, 6, 11, 3, 2, 900mhz, etc spectrum (I don't have a lease >> handy to see the specific wording) per the site. >> >> I know we wouldn't have a horse in the race with the FCC, but with this >> boiling down to contract law, whats to stop us from A. willful interference >> (assuming out power doesn't get cut) and B. a cease and desist from a court >> for the other ISP, pending the 2 year termination? >> >> I'm handing this to the boss to handle, because my communication will start >> with "listen here motherfucker" and I don't see that as conducive to a >> positive outcome. I had my boy with me when I came to the site today because >> I was just getting accurate AGLs for bringing in a licensed backhaul. If he >> hadn't been with me, I probably would have yanked their ghetto enclosure off >> the wall and shot their antennas. >> >> Ill tell you what, I'm about to start acting like a lot of these yahoos and >> saying fuck the FCC, fuck good stewardship of the spectrum, and fuck general >> good manners. >> >> TBH I'm not sure if I'm asking advice here or just venting. probably both. >> but FYI, I'm so pissed off right now, if you have an ex old lady who needs >> disappeared, I'm your freaking guy >
Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)
Yea, typo. Thanks for pointing that out so eloquently. Rory From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Andy Trimmell Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 5:41 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz) #savage From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 2:12 AM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz) Rogue vs. rouge A rogue is (1) a scoundrel, (2) a vicious or solitary animal, or (3) a fraudulent piece of software. The word is also an adjective<http://grammarist.com/grammar/adjectives/> meaning vicious and solitary. Rouge is a pinkish color or a reddish powder. It’s also a verb<http://grammarist.com/grammar/verbs/> meaning to put rouge onto. It appears surprisingly often in place of rogue. http://grammarist.com/spelling/rogue-rouge/ Just wanted to let you know.;-) bp On 7/17/2017 9:24 PM, Rory Conaway wrote: Rouge access point suppression. Rory From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones Sent: Monday, July 17, 2017 8:05 PM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz) Just an update on this nonsense. Turns out, this site is the only one who didnt sign the new cool beans lease, so im screwed in that regard. This fool has 4 epmp up in 5.1, same channel, new essids indicate all other sites are configured the same. And hes ripped right through thr middle of me. But as he says, DFS will take care of it... fucking douche On Jun 28, 2017 5:10 PM, "Dave" mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com>> wrote: Depends if hes from out of town :) On 06/28/2017 02:45 PM, Chris Wright wrote: All jokes aside, you do NOT want to get into a pissing match with another WISP. No one wins. Chris Wright Network Administrator From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 12:30 PM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz) ubnt in test mode On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 2:20 PM, Faisal Imtiaz mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net>> wrote: Let's follow the logic... Property Owner wants more $, as such has chosen to ignore the 'exclusivity' right you may have listed in the contract. You can exercise your right to complain You can exercise your right to take your marbles and go play somewhere else. Depending on who is paying more to the property owner, and who has a better relationship, you or the other guy can complaint on each other... but at the end of the day.. the property owner is going to ask you to just get along ! So the short answer is . NO, there is realistic recourse to what you have in mind.. You can always deploy Mimosa gear using 80mhz channels :) :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net<mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net> From: "Steve Jones" mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:10:52 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz) is there realistically any recourse? On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Mitch Koep mailto:af...@abwisp.com>> wrote: And your question is? On 6/27/2017 11:05 PM, Steve Jones wrote: I am not asking about any FCC Part X rules, I know this isn't an FCC issue under any circumstances. We have leases with all our POP landlords, in the lease we own the site spectrum, with the exception of very few locations we don't collocate, just not worth the hassle. I come rolling up on a site today, 100 feet from our POP is a new POP, not us, cause though I used to enjoy spooning some powder with baking soda, I don't smoke crack, POP#2 isn't ours, even though its on the same property, Id recall a full EPMP and backhaul deployment. I'm an honest operator, very honest, like the first time UBT sent us new stickers for spectrum I made sure we actually put them out (be honest, pretty much NOBODY did that) I turn down power where we don't need it. I do my best to make sure we are compliant. I fought bosses to remove non compliant stuff I put up before I knew better. For the most part, I'm a good fucking neighbor, ask anybody abutting me. (with the exception of one location I collocate where I'm a dick, but a legal dick) So you can understand my dismay, being the pillar of the spectrum community Ive tried to be (also found out today I inadvertently fucked a fellow wisp on a bad choice I made with no follow up, I owned it with him and will be working on fixing that as of tomorrow) I approach everything with combat boots, assuming a battle. I'm guessing when it get
Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)
#savage From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 2:12 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz) Rogue vs. rouge A rogue is (1) a scoundrel, (2) a vicious or solitary animal, or (3) a fraudulent piece of software. The word is also an adjective <http://grammarist.com/grammar/adjectives/> meaning vicious and solitary. Rouge is a pinkish color or a reddish powder. It’s also a verb <http://grammarist.com/grammar/verbs/> meaning to put rouge onto. It appears surprisingly often in place of rogue. http://grammarist.com/spelling/rogue-rouge/ Just wanted to let you know.;-) bp On 7/17/2017 9:24 PM, Rory Conaway wrote: Rouge access point suppression. Rory From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones Sent: Monday, July 17, 2017 8:05 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz) Just an update on this nonsense. Turns out, this site is the only one who didnt sign the new cool beans lease, so im screwed in that regard. This fool has 4 epmp up in 5.1, same channel, new essids indicate all other sites are configured the same. And hes ripped right through thr middle of me. But as he says, DFS will take care of it... fucking douche On Jun 28, 2017 5:10 PM, "Dave" wrote: Depends if hes from out of town :) On 06/28/2017 02:45 PM, Chris Wright wrote: All jokes aside, you do NOT want to get into a pissing match with another WISP. No one wins. Chris Wright Network Administrator From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 12:30 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz) ubnt in test mode On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 2:20 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Let's follow the logic... Property Owner wants more $, as such has chosen to ignore the 'exclusivity' right you may have listed in the contract. You can exercise your right to complain You can exercise your right to take your marbles and go play somewhere else. Depending on who is paying more to the property owner, and who has a better relationship, you or the other guy can complaint on each other... but at the end of the day.. the property owner is going to ask you to just get along ! So the short answer is . NO, there is realistic recourse to what you have in mind.. You can always deploy Mimosa gear using 80mhz channels :) :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net From: "Steve Jones" To: af@afmug.com Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:10:52 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz) is there realistically any recourse? On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Mitch Koep wrote: And your question is? On 6/27/2017 11:05 PM, Steve Jones wrote: I am not asking about any FCC Part X rules, I know this isn't an FCC issue under any circumstances. We have leases with all our POP landlords, in the lease we own the site spectrum, with the exception of very few locations we don't collocate, just not worth the hassle. I come rolling up on a site today, 100 feet from our POP is a new POP, not us, cause though I used to enjoy spooning some powder with baking soda, I don't smoke crack, POP#2 isn't ours, even though its on the same property, Id recall a full EPMP and backhaul deployment. I'm an honest operator, very honest, like t
Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)
Rogue vs. rouge A*rogue*is (1) a scoundrel, (2) a vicious or solitary animal, or (3) a fraudulent piece of software. The word is also anadjective <http://grammarist.com/grammar/adjectives/>meaning/vicious and solitary/.*Rouge*is a pinkish color or a reddish powder. It’s also averb <http://grammarist.com/grammar/verbs/>meaning/to put rouge onto/. It appears surprisingly often in place of /rogue/. http://grammarist.com/spelling/rogue-rouge/ Just wanted to let you know.;-) bp On 7/17/2017 9:24 PM, Rory Conaway wrote: Rouge access point suppression. Rory *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones *Sent:* Monday, July 17, 2017 8:05 PM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz) Just an update on this nonsense. Turns out, this site is the only one who didnt sign the new cool beans lease, so im screwed in that regard. This fool has 4 epmp up in 5.1, same channel, new essids indicate all other sites are configured the same. And hes ripped right through thr middle of me. But as he says, DFS will take care of it... fucking douche On Jun 28, 2017 5:10 PM, "Dave" <mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com>> wrote: Depends if hes from out of town :) On 06/28/2017 02:45 PM, Chris Wright wrote: All jokes aside, you do NOT want to get into a pissing match with another WISP. No one wins. Chris Wright Network Administrator *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones *Sent:* Wednesday, June 28, 2017 12:30 PM *To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz) ubnt in test mode On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 2:20 PM, Faisal Imtiaz mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net>> wrote: Let's follow the logic... Property Owner wants more $, as such has chosen to ignore the 'exclusivity' right you may have listed in the contract. You can exercise your right to complain You can exercise your right to take your marbles and go play somewhere else. Depending on who is paying more to the property owner, and who has a better relationship, you or the other guy can complaint on each other... but at the end of the day.. the property owner is going to ask you to just get along ! So the short answer is . NO, there is realistic recourse to what you have in mind.. You can always deploy Mimosa gear using 80mhz channels :) :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net <mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net> *From: *"Steve Jones" mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> *To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> *Sent: *Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:10:52 PM *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz) is there realistically any recourse? On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Mitch Koep mailto:af...@abwisp.com>> wrote: And your question is? On 6/27/2017 11:05 PM, Steve Jones wrote: I am not asking about any FCC Part X rules, I know this isn't an FCC issue under any circumstances. We have leases with all our POP landlords, in the lease we own the site spectrum, with the exception of very few locations we don't collocate, just not worth the hassle. I come rolling up on a site today, 100 feet from our POP is a new POP, not us, cause though I used to enjoy spooning some powder with baking soda, I don't smoke crack, POP#2 isn't ours, even though its on the same property, Id recall a full EPMP and backhaul deployment. I'm an honest operator, very honest, like the first time UBT sent us new stickers for spectrum I made sure we actually put them out (be honest, pretty much NOBODY did that) I turn down power where we don't need it. I do my best to make sure we are compliant. I fought bosses to remove non compliant stuff I put up before I knew better. For the most part, I'm a good fucking neighbor, ask anybody abutting me. (with the exception of one location I collocate where I'm a dick, but a legal dick) So you can understand my dismay, being the pillar of the spectrum community Ive tried to be (also found out today I inadvertently fucked a fellow wisp on a bad choice I made with no follow up, I owned it with him and will be working on fixing that as of tomorrow) I a
Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)
Rouge access point suppression. Rory From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones Sent: Monday, July 17, 2017 8:05 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz) Just an update on this nonsense. Turns out, this site is the only one who didnt sign the new cool beans lease, so im screwed in that regard. This fool has 4 epmp up in 5.1, same channel, new essids indicate all other sites are configured the same. And hes ripped right through thr middle of me. But as he says, DFS will take care of it... fucking douche On Jun 28, 2017 5:10 PM, "Dave" mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com>> wrote: Depends if hes from out of town :) On 06/28/2017 02:45 PM, Chris Wright wrote: All jokes aside, you do NOT want to get into a pissing match with another WISP. No one wins. Chris Wright Network Administrator From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 12:30 PM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz) ubnt in test mode On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 2:20 PM, Faisal Imtiaz mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net>> wrote: Let's follow the logic... Property Owner wants more $, as such has chosen to ignore the 'exclusivity' right you may have listed in the contract. You can exercise your right to complain You can exercise your right to take your marbles and go play somewhere else. Depending on who is paying more to the property owner, and who has a better relationship, you or the other guy can complaint on each other... but at the end of the day.. the property owner is going to ask you to just get along ! So the short answer is . NO, there is realistic recourse to what you have in mind.. You can always deploy Mimosa gear using 80mhz channels :) :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net<mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net> From: "Steve Jones" mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:10:52 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz) is there realistically any recourse? On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Mitch Koep mailto:af...@abwisp.com>> wrote: And your question is? On 6/27/2017 11:05 PM, Steve Jones wrote: I am not asking about any FCC Part X rules, I know this isn't an FCC issue under any circumstances. We have leases with all our POP landlords, in the lease we own the site spectrum, with the exception of very few locations we don't collocate, just not worth the hassle. I come rolling up on a site today, 100 feet from our POP is a new POP, not us, cause though I used to enjoy spooning some powder with baking soda, I don't smoke crack, POP#2 isn't ours, even though its on the same property, Id recall a full EPMP and backhaul deployment. I'm an honest operator, very honest, like the first time UBT sent us new stickers for spectrum I made sure we actually put them out (be honest, pretty much NOBODY did that) I turn down power where we don't need it. I do my best to make sure we are compliant. I fought bosses to remove non compliant stuff I put up before I knew better. For the most part, I'm a good fucking neighbor, ask anybody abutting me. (with the exception of one location I collocate where I'm a dick, but a legal dick) So you can understand my dismay, being the pillar of the spectrum community Ive tried to be (also found out today I inadvertently fucked a fellow wisp on a bad choice I made with no follow up, I owned it with him and will be working on fixing that as of tomorrow) I approach everything with combat boots, assuming a battle. I'm guessing when it gets in the database this backhaul is going to be UBNT 11ghz, or some other nonsense (probably affiliated with the over wind loaded tower 3/4 miles away with 3, yes 3, UBNT 5ghz peanut shaped airfibers within 8 feet of one another (one link, one side points to the sky the other side points to the dirt) The question I have is about lease rules, and contract law, which the bulk of you old timers has dealt with. If the other operator (if its who I suspect it is, they use fuckery, like the UBNT demo mode, or whatever its called and other such garbage to even operate overpowered in DFS channels) doesn't want to play ball, as in "shut that shit off" will we be able to fight it? I know what went down, and how it went down, and I suspect I know who it is. The usual, guy approaches a site owner, offers unrealistic unicorn farts, unicorn farts always win, spectrum gets fucked. We do 5 year auto renewing leases, with 2 year breakouts. (you guys would likely cream your jeans seeing our lease, and tho
Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)
Just an update on this nonsense. Turns out, this site is the only one who didnt sign the new cool beans lease, so im screwed in that regard. This fool has 4 epmp up in 5.1, same channel, new essids indicate all other sites are configured the same. And hes ripped right through thr middle of me. But as he says, DFS will take care of it... fucking douche On Jun 28, 2017 5:10 PM, "Dave" wrote: > Depends if hes from out of town :) > > > On 06/28/2017 02:45 PM, Chris Wright wrote: > > All jokes aside, you do NOT want to get into a pissing match with another > WISP. No one wins. > > > > Chris Wright > > Network Administrator > > > > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On > Behalf Of *Steve Jones > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 28, 2017 12:30 PM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz) > > > > ubnt in test mode > > > > On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 2:20 PM, Faisal Imtiaz > wrote: > > Let's follow the logic... > > > > Property Owner wants more $, as such has chosen to ignore the > 'exclusivity' right you may have listed in the contract. > > > > You can exercise your right to complain > > You can exercise your right to take your marbles and go play somewhere > else. > > Depending on who is paying more to the property owner, and who has a > better relationship, you or the other guy can complaint on each other... > but at the end of the day.. the property owner is going to ask you to just > get along ! > > > > So the short answer is . NO, there is realistic recourse to what you > have in mind.. > > > > You can always deploy Mimosa gear using 80mhz channels :) > > > > :) > > > > > > > > Faisal Imtiaz > Snappy Internet & Telecom > 7266 SW 48 Street > Miami, FL 33155 > Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 <%28305%29%20663-5518> > > Help-desk: (305)663-5518 <%28305%29%20663-5518> Option 2 or Email: > supp...@snappytelecom.net > > > -- > > *From: *"Steve Jones" > *To: *af@afmug.com > *Sent: *Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:10:52 PM > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz) > > is there realistically any recourse? > > > > On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Mitch Koep wrote: > > And your question is? > > > > > On 6/27/2017 11:05 PM, Steve Jones wrote: > > I am not asking about any FCC Part X rules, I know this isn't an FCC issue > under any circumstances. > > We have leases with all our POP landlords, in the lease we own the site > spectrum, with the exception of very few locations we don't collocate, just > not worth the hassle. > > I come rolling up on a site today, 100 feet from our POP is a new POP, not > us, cause though I used to enjoy spooning some powder with baking soda, I > don't smoke crack, POP#2 isn't ours, even though its on the same property, > Id recall a full EPMP and backhaul deployment. > > I'm an honest operator, very honest, like the first time UBT sent us new > stickers for spectrum I made sure we actually put them out (be honest, > pretty much NOBODY did that) I turn down power where we don't need it. I do > my best to make sure we are compliant. I fought bosses to remove non > compliant stuff I put up before I knew better. For the most part, I'm a > good fucking neighbor, ask anybody abutting me. (with the exception of one > location I collocate where I'm a dick, but a legal dick) > > So you can understand my dismay, being the pillar of the spectrum > community Ive tried to be (also found out today I inadvertently fucked a > fellow wisp on a bad choice I made with no follow up, I owned it with him > and will be working on fixing that as of tomorrow) > > I approach everything with combat boots, assuming a battle. I'm guessing > when it gets in the database this backhaul is going to be UBNT 11ghz, or > some other nonsense (probably affiliated with the over wind loaded tower > 3/4 miles away with 3, yes 3, UBNT 5ghz peanut shaped airfibers within 8 > feet of one another (one link, one side points to the sky the other side > points to the dirt) > > The question I have is about lease rules, and contract law, which the bulk > of you old timers has dealt with. If the other operator (if its who I > suspect it is, they use fuckery, like the UBNT demo mode, or whatever its > called and other such garbage to even operate overpowered in DFS channels) > doesn't want to play ball, as in "shut that shit off" will we be able to > fight it? > > I know what went down, and how it went down, and I suspect I know who it
Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)
Depends if hes from out of town :) On 06/28/2017 02:45 PM, Chris Wright wrote: All jokes aside, you do NOT want to get into a pissing match with another WISP. No one wins. Chris Wright Network Administrator *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones *Sent:* Wednesday, June 28, 2017 12:30 PM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz) ubnt in test mode On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 2:20 PM, Faisal Imtiaz mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net>> wrote: Let's follow the logic... Property Owner wants more $, as such has chosen to ignore the 'exclusivity' right you may have listed in the contract. You can exercise your right to complain You can exercise your right to take your marbles and go play somewhere else. Depending on who is paying more to the property owner, and who has a better relationship, you or the other guy can complaint on each other... but at the end of the day.. the property owner is going to ask you to just get along ! So the short answer is . NO, there is realistic recourse to what you have in mind.. You can always deploy Mimosa gear using 80mhz channels :) :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net <mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net> *From: *"Steve Jones" mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> *To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> *Sent: *Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:10:52 PM *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz) is there realistically any recourse? On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Mitch Koep mailto:af...@abwisp.com>> wrote: And your question is? On 6/27/2017 11:05 PM, Steve Jones wrote: I am not asking about any FCC Part X rules, I know this isn't an FCC issue under any circumstances. We have leases with all our POP landlords, in the lease we own the site spectrum, with the exception of very few locations we don't collocate, just not worth the hassle. I come rolling up on a site today, 100 feet from our POP is a new POP, not us, cause though I used to enjoy spooning some powder with baking soda, I don't smoke crack, POP#2 isn't ours, even though its on the same property, Id recall a full EPMP and backhaul deployment. I'm an honest operator, very honest, like the first time UBT sent us new stickers for spectrum I made sure we actually put them out (be honest, pretty much NOBODY did that) I turn down power where we don't need it. I do my best to make sure we are compliant. I fought bosses to remove non compliant stuff I put up before I knew better. For the most part, I'm a good fucking neighbor, ask anybody abutting me. (with the exception of one location I collocate where I'm a dick, but a legal dick) So you can understand my dismay, being the pillar of the spectrum community Ive tried to be (also found out today I inadvertently fucked a fellow wisp on a bad choice I made with no follow up, I owned it with him and will be working on fixing that as of tomorrow) I approach everything with combat boots, assuming a battle. I'm guessing when it gets in the database this backhaul is going to be UBNT 11ghz, or some other nonsense (probably affiliated with the over wind loaded tower 3/4 miles away with 3, yes 3, UBNT 5ghz peanut shaped airfibers within 8 feet of one another (one link, one side points to the sky the other side points to the dirt) The question I have is about lease rules, and contract law, which the bulk of you old timers has dealt with. If the other operator (if its who I suspect it is, they use fuckery, like the UBNT demo mode, or whatever its called and other such garbage to even operate overpowered in DFS channels) doesn't want to play ball, as in "shut that shit off" will we be able to fight it? I know what went down, and how it went down, and I suspect I know who it is. The usual, guy approaches a site owner, offers unrealistic unicorn farts, unicorn farts always win, spectrum gets fucked. We do 5 year auto renewing leases, with 2 year breakouts. (you guys would likely cream your jeans seeing our lease, and though Ive asked, no I cant share it publicly, and yes, it was drawn up by an attorney) we get full control of the 5, 6, 11, 3, 2, 900mhz, etc spectrum (I don't have a lease handy to see the specific wording) per the
Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)
Hence, a contract is not the thing we depend upon for our business, but the honesty of the people we deal with. We survive in a vulnerable context and have to be ten times cautious.. Know the people who know those you depend upon, their friends attest to their character and by association yours... On 06/28/2017 12:36 PM, James Howard wrote: Seems to me that the wording of the contract is the key to this. What does it define as the �site� that you have exclusive rights to. I believe our contract indicates either an address or a specific structure on an address if we include exclusive rights (which we typically do). IANAL but I would guess that if your contract doesn�t include specifics to the amount of area that you have exclusive rights to that you would not win. The other WISP does not have any contract with you that they are violating. The landlord is the only violator. The obvious problem with that if it escalates you end up with a bad relationship with the landlord and end up pretty much losing either way. *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones *Sent:* Wednesday, June 28, 2017 2:21 PM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz) that's what I'm wondering, I guess if we got a cease and desist it would be against the landlord, who would have to stop the tenant? On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 2:16 PM, Chris Fabien mailto:ch...@lakenetmi.com>> wrote: Your recourse would be with the landlord. Unfortunately this puts them in a bad situation since they violated the terms of your lease with them. I don't think you have any way to make a claim agianst the other ISP unless you had some non-compete agreement with them or something. On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 3:10 PM, Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote: is there realistically any recourse? On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Mitch Koep mailto:af...@abwisp.com>> wrote: And your question is? On 6/27/2017 11:05 PM, Steve Jones wrote: I am not asking about any FCC Part X rules, I know this isn't an FCC issue under any circumstances. We have leases with all our POP landlords, in the lease we own the site spectrum, with the exception of very few locations we don't collocate, just not worth the hassle. I come rolling up on a site today, 100 feet from our POP is a new POP, not us, cause though I used to enjoy spooning some powder with baking soda, I don't smoke crack, POP#2 isn't ours, even though its on the same property, Id recall a full EPMP and backhaul deployment. I'm an honest operator, very honest, like the first time UBT sent us new stickers for spectrum I made sure we actually put them out (be honest, pretty much NOBODY did that) I turn down power where we don't need it. I do my best to make sure we are compliant. I fought bosses to remove non compliant stuff I put up before I knew better. For the most part, I'm a good fucking neighbor, ask anybody abutting me. (with the exception of one location I collocate where I'm a dick, but a legal dick) So you can understand my dismay, being the pillar of the spectrum community Ive tried to be (also found out today I inadvertently fucked a fellow wisp on a bad choice I made with no follow up, I owned it with him and will be working on fixing that as of tomorrow) I approach everything with combat boots, assuming a battle. I'm guessing when it gets in the database this backhaul is going to be UBNT 11ghz, or some other nonsense (probably affiliated with the over wind loaded tower 3/4 miles away with 3, yes 3, UBNT 5ghz peanut shaped airfibers within 8 feet of one another (one link, one side points to the sky the other side points to the dirt) The question I have is about lease rules, and contract law, which the bulk of you old timers has dealt with. If the other operator (if its who I suspect it is, they use fuckery, like the UBNT demo mode, or whatever its called and other such garbage to even operate overpowered in DFS channels) doesn't want to play ball, as in "shut that shit off" will we be able to fight it? I know what went down, and how it went down, and I suspect I know who it is. The
Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)
All jokes aside, you do NOT want to get into a pissing match with another WISP. No one wins. Chris Wright Network Administrator From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 12:30 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz) ubnt in test mode On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 2:20 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Let's follow the logic... Property Owner wants more $, as such has chosen to ignore the 'exclusivity' right you may have listed in the contract. You can exercise your right to complain You can exercise your right to take your marbles and go play somewhere else. Depending on who is paying more to the property owner, and who has a better relationship, you or the other guy can complaint on each other... but at the end of the day.. the property owner is going to ask you to just get along ! So the short answer is . NO, there is realistic recourse to what you have in mind.. You can always deploy Mimosa gear using 80mhz channels :) :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net _ From: "Steve Jones" To: af@afmug.com Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:10:52 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz) is there realistically any recourse? On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Mitch Koep wrote: And your question is? On 6/27/2017 11:05 PM, Steve Jones wrote: I am not asking about any FCC Part X rules, I know this isn't an FCC issue under any circumstances. We have leases with all our POP landlords, in the lease we own the site spectrum, with the exception of very few locations we don't collocate, just not worth the hassle. I come rolling up on a site today, 100 feet from our POP is a new POP, not us, cause though I used to enjoy spooning some powder with baking soda, I don't smoke crack, POP#2 isn't ours, even though its on the same property, Id recall a full EPMP and backhaul deployment. I'm an honest operator, very honest, like the first time UBT sent us new stickers for spectrum I made sure we actually put them out (be honest, pretty much NOBODY did that) I turn down power where we don't need it. I do my best to make sure we are compliant. I fought bosses to remove non compliant stuff I put up before I knew better. For the most part, I'm a good fucking neighbor, ask anybody abutting me. (with the exception of one location I collocate where I'm a dick, but a legal dick) So you can understand my dismay, being the pillar of the spectrum community Ive tried to be (also found out today I inadvertently fucked a fellow wisp on a bad choice I made with no follow up, I owned it with him and will be working on fixing that as of tomorrow) I approach everything with combat boots, assuming a battle. I'm guessing when it gets in the database this backhaul is going to be UBNT 11ghz, or some other nonsense (probably affiliated with the over wind loaded tower 3/4 miles away with 3, yes 3, UBNT 5ghz peanut shaped airfibers within 8 feet of one another (one link, one side points to the sky the other side points to the dirt) The question I have is about lease rules, and contract law, which the bulk of you old timers has dealt with. If the other operator (if its who I suspect it is, they use fuckery, like the UBNT demo mode, or whatever its called and other such garbage to even operate overpowered in DFS channels) doesn't want to play ball, as in "shut that shit off" will we be able to fight it? I know what went down, and how it went down, and I suspect I know who it is. The usual, guy approaches a site owner, offers unrealistic unicorn farts, unicorn farts always win, spectrum gets fucked. We do 5 year auto renewing leases, with 2 year breakouts. (you guys would likely cream your jeans seeing our lease, and though Ive asked, no I cant share it publicly, and yes, it was drawn up by an attorney) we get full control of the 5, 6, 11, 3, 2, 900mhz, etc spectrum (I don't have a lease handy to see the specific wording) per the site. I know we wouldn't have a horse in the race with the FCC, but with this boiling down to contract law, whats to stop us from A. willful interference (assuming out power doesn't get cut) and B. a cease and desist from a court for the other ISP, pending the 2 year termination? I'm handing this to the boss to handle, because my communication will start with "listen here motherfucker" and I don't see that as conducive to a positive outcome. I had my boy with me when I came to the site today because I was just getting accurate AGLs for bringing in a licensed backhaul. If he hadn't been with me, I probably would have yanked their ghetto enclosure
Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)
Seems to me that the wording of the contract is the key to this. What does it define as the "site" that you have exclusive rights to. I believe our contract indicates either an address or a specific structure on an address if we include exclusive rights (which we typically do). IANAL but I would guess that if your contract doesn't include specifics to the amount of area that you have exclusive rights to that you would not win. The other WISP does not have any contract with you that they are violating. The landlord is the only violator. The obvious problem with that if it escalates you end up with a bad relationship with the landlord and end up pretty much losing either way. From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 2:21 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz) that's what I'm wondering, I guess if we got a cease and desist it would be against the landlord, who would have to stop the tenant? On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 2:16 PM, Chris Fabien mailto:ch...@lakenetmi.com>> wrote: Your recourse would be with the landlord. Unfortunately this puts them in a bad situation since they violated the terms of your lease with them. I don't think you have any way to make a claim agianst the other ISP unless you had some non-compete agreement with them or something. On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 3:10 PM, Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote: is there realistically any recourse? On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Mitch Koep mailto:af...@abwisp.com>> wrote: And your question is? On 6/27/2017 11:05 PM, Steve Jones wrote: I am not asking about any FCC Part X rules, I know this isn't an FCC issue under any circumstances. We have leases with all our POP landlords, in the lease we own the site spectrum, with the exception of very few locations we don't collocate, just not worth the hassle. I come rolling up on a site today, 100 feet from our POP is a new POP, not us, cause though I used to enjoy spooning some powder with baking soda, I don't smoke crack, POP#2 isn't ours, even though its on the same property, Id recall a full EPMP and backhaul deployment. I'm an honest operator, very honest, like the first time UBT sent us new stickers for spectrum I made sure we actually put them out (be honest, pretty much NOBODY did that) I turn down power where we don't need it. I do my best to make sure we are compliant. I fought bosses to remove non compliant stuff I put up before I knew better. For the most part, I'm a good fucking neighbor, ask anybody abutting me. (with the exception of one location I collocate where I'm a dick, but a legal dick) So you can understand my dismay, being the pillar of the spectrum community Ive tried to be (also found out today I inadvertently fucked a fellow wisp on a bad choice I made with no follow up, I owned it with him and will be working on fixing that as of tomorrow) I approach everything with combat boots, assuming a battle. I'm guessing when it gets in the database this backhaul is going to be UBNT 11ghz, or some other nonsense (probably affiliated with the over wind loaded tower 3/4 miles away with 3, yes 3, UBNT 5ghz peanut shaped airfibers within 8 feet of one another (one link, one side points to the sky the other side points to the dirt) The question I have is about lease rules, and contract law, which the bulk of you old timers has dealt with. If the other operator (if its who I suspect it is, they use fuckery, like the UBNT demo mode, or whatever its called and other such garbage to even operate overpowered in DFS channels) doesn't want to play ball, as in "shut that shit off" will we be able to fight it? I know what went down, and how it went down, and I suspect I know who it is. The usual, guy approaches a site owner, offers unrealistic unicorn farts, unicorn farts always win, spectrum gets fucked. We do 5 year auto renewing leases, with 2 year breakouts. (you guys would likely cream your jeans seeing our lease, and though Ive asked, no I cant share it publicly, and yes, it was drawn up by an attorney) we get full control of the 5, 6, 11, 3, 2, 900mhz, etc spectrum (I don't have a lease handy to see the specific wording) per the site. I know we wouldn't have a horse in the race with the FCC, but with this boiling down to contract law, whats to stop us from A. willful interference (assuming out power doesn't get cut) and B. a cease and desist from a court for the other ISP, pending the 2 year termination? I'm handing this to the boss to handle, because my communication will start with "listen here motherfucker" and I don't see that as conducive to a positive outcome. I had my boy with me when I came to the site today because I was just getting accurate AGLs for bringing in a lice
Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)
ubnt in test mode On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 2:20 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: > Let's follow the logic... > > Property Owner wants more $, as such has chosen to ignore the > 'exclusivity' right you may have listed in the contract. > > You can exercise your right to complain > You can exercise your right to take your marbles and go play somewhere > else. > Depending on who is paying more to the property owner, and who has a > better relationship, you or the other guy can complaint on each other... > but at the end of the day.. the property owner is going to ask you to just > get along ! > > So the short answer is . NO, there is realistic recourse to what you > have in mind.. > > You can always deploy Mimosa gear using 80mhz channels :) > > :) > > > > Faisal Imtiaz > Snappy Internet & Telecom > 7266 SW 48 Street > Miami, FL 33155 > Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 <(305)%20663-5518> > > Help-desk: (305)663-5518 <(305)%20663-5518> Option 2 or Email: > supp...@snappytelecom.net > > -------------- > > *From: *"Steve Jones" > *To: *af@afmug.com > *Sent: *Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:10:52 PM > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz) > > is there realistically any recourse? > > On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Mitch Koep wrote: > >> And your question is? >> >> >> >> On 6/27/2017 11:05 PM, Steve Jones wrote: >> >>> I am not asking about any FCC Part X rules, I know this isn't an FCC >>> issue under any circumstances. >>> >>> We have leases with all our POP landlords, in the lease we own the site >>> spectrum, with the exception of very few locations we don't collocate, just >>> not worth the hassle. >>> >>> I come rolling up on a site today, 100 feet from our POP is a new POP, >>> not us, cause though I used to enjoy spooning some powder with baking soda, >>> I don't smoke crack, POP#2 isn't ours, even though its on the same >>> property, Id recall a full EPMP and backhaul deployment. >>> >>> I'm an honest operator, very honest, like the first time UBT sent us new >>> stickers for spectrum I made sure we actually put them out (be honest, >>> pretty much NOBODY did that) I turn down power where we don't need it. I do >>> my best to make sure we are compliant. I fought bosses to remove non >>> compliant stuff I put up before I knew better. For the most part, I'm a >>> good fucking neighbor, ask anybody abutting me. (with the exception of one >>> location I collocate where I'm a dick, but a legal dick) >>> >>> So you can understand my dismay, being the pillar of the spectrum >>> community Ive tried to be (also found out today I inadvertently fucked a >>> fellow wisp on a bad choice I made with no follow up, I owned it with him >>> and will be working on fixing that as of tomorrow) >>> >>> I approach everything with combat boots, assuming a battle. I'm guessing >>> when it gets in the database this backhaul is going to be UBNT 11ghz, or >>> some other nonsense (probably affiliated with the over wind loaded tower >>> 3/4 miles away with 3, yes 3, UBNT 5ghz peanut shaped airfibers within 8 >>> feet of one another (one link, one side points to the sky the other side >>> points to the dirt) >>> >>> The question I have is about lease rules, and contract law, which the >>> bulk of you old timers has dealt with. If the other operator (if its who I >>> suspect it is, they use fuckery, like the UBNT demo mode, or whatever its >>> called and other such garbage to even operate overpowered in DFS channels) >>> doesn't want to play ball, as in "shut that shit off" will we be able to >>> fight it? >>> >>> I know what went down, and how it went down, and I suspect I know who it >>> is. The usual, guy approaches a site owner, offers unrealistic unicorn >>> farts, unicorn farts always win, spectrum gets fucked. >>> >>> We do 5 year auto renewing leases, with 2 year breakouts. (you guys >>> would likely cream your jeans seeing our lease, and though Ive asked, no I >>> cant share it publicly, and yes, it was drawn up by an attorney) we get >>> full control of the 5, 6, 11, 3, 2, 900mhz, etc spectrum (I don't have a >>> lease handy to see the specific wording) per the site. >>> >>> I know we wouldn't have a horse in the race with the FCC, but with this >>> boiling down to contract
Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)
Let's follow the logic... Property Owner wants more $, as such has chosen to ignore the 'exclusivity' right you may have listed in the contract. You can exercise your right to complain You can exercise your right to take your marbles and go play somewhere else. Depending on who is paying more to the property owner, and who has a better relationship, you or the other guy can complaint on each other... but at the end of the day.. the property owner is going to ask you to just get along ! So the short answer is . NO, there is realistic recourse to what you have in mind.. You can always deploy Mimosa gear using 80mhz channels :) :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net > From: "Steve Jones" > To: af@afmug.com > Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:10:52 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz) > is there realistically any recourse? > On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Mitch Koep < af...@abwisp.com > wrote: >> And your question is? >> On 6/27/2017 11:05 PM, Steve Jones wrote: >>> I am not asking about any FCC Part X rules, I know this isn't an FCC issue >>> under >>> any circumstances. >>> We have leases with all our POP landlords, in the lease we own the site >>> spectrum, with the exception of very few locations we don't collocate, just >>> not >>> worth the hassle. >>> I come rolling up on a site today, 100 feet from our POP is a new POP, not >>> us, >>> cause though I used to enjoy spooning some powder with baking soda, I don't >>> smoke crack, POP#2 isn't ours, even though its on the same property, Id >>> recall >>> a full EPMP and backhaul deployment. >>> I'm an honest operator, very honest, like the first time UBT sent us new >>> stickers for spectrum I made sure we actually put them out (be honest, >>> pretty >>> much NOBODY did that) I turn down power where we don't need it. I do my >>> best to >>> make sure we are compliant. I fought bosses to remove non compliant stuff I >>> put >>> up before I knew better. For the most part, I'm a good fucking neighbor, ask >>> anybody abutting me. (with the exception of one location I collocate where >>> I'm >>> a dick, but a legal dick) >>> So you can understand my dismay, being the pillar of the spectrum community >>> Ive >>> tried to be (also found out today I inadvertently fucked a fellow wisp on a >>> bad >>> choice I made with no follow up, I owned it with him and will be working on >>> fixing that as of tomorrow) >>> I approach everything with combat boots, assuming a battle. I'm guessing >>> when it >>> gets in the database this backhaul is going to be UBNT 11ghz, or some other >>> nonsense (probably affiliated with the over wind loaded tower 3/4 miles away >>> with 3, yes 3, UBNT 5ghz peanut shaped airfibers within 8 feet of one >>> another >>> (one link, one side points to the sky the other side points to the dirt) >>> The question I have is about lease rules, and contract law, which the bulk >>> of >>> you old timers has dealt with. If the other operator (if its who I suspect >>> it >>> is, they use fuckery, like the UBNT demo mode, or whatever its called and >>> other >>> such garbage to even operate overpowered in DFS channels) doesn't want to >>> play >>> ball, as in "shut that shit off" will we be able to fight it? >>> I know what went down, and how it went down, and I suspect I know who it >>> is. The >>> usual, guy approaches a site owner, offers unrealistic unicorn farts, >>> unicorn >>> farts always win, spectrum gets fucked. >>> We do 5 year auto renewing leases, with 2 year breakouts. (you guys would >>> likely >>> cream your jeans seeing our lease, and though Ive asked, no I cant share it >>> publicly, and yes, it was drawn up by an attorney) we get full control of >>> the >>> 5, 6, 11, 3, 2, 900mhz, etc spectrum (I don't have a lease handy to see the >>> specific wording) per the site. >>> I know we wouldn't have a horse in the race with the FCC, but with this >>> boiling >>> down to contract law, whats to stop us from A. willful interference >>> (assuming >>> out power doesn't get cut) and B. a cease and desist from a court for the
Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)
that's what I'm wondering, I guess if we got a cease and desist it would be against the landlord, who would have to stop the tenant? On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 2:16 PM, Chris Fabien wrote: > Your recourse would be with the landlord. Unfortunately this puts them in > a bad situation since they violated the terms of your lease with them. I > don't think you have any way to make a claim agianst the other ISP unless > you had some non-compete agreement with them or something. > > On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 3:10 PM, Steve Jones > wrote: > >> is there realistically any recourse? >> >> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Mitch Koep wrote: >> >>> And your question is? >>> >>> >>> >>> On 6/27/2017 11:05 PM, Steve Jones wrote: >>> I am not asking about any FCC Part X rules, I know this isn't an FCC issue under any circumstances. We have leases with all our POP landlords, in the lease we own the site spectrum, with the exception of very few locations we don't collocate, just not worth the hassle. I come rolling up on a site today, 100 feet from our POP is a new POP, not us, cause though I used to enjoy spooning some powder with baking soda, I don't smoke crack, POP#2 isn't ours, even though its on the same property, Id recall a full EPMP and backhaul deployment. I'm an honest operator, very honest, like the first time UBT sent us new stickers for spectrum I made sure we actually put them out (be honest, pretty much NOBODY did that) I turn down power where we don't need it. I do my best to make sure we are compliant. I fought bosses to remove non compliant stuff I put up before I knew better. For the most part, I'm a good fucking neighbor, ask anybody abutting me. (with the exception of one location I collocate where I'm a dick, but a legal dick) So you can understand my dismay, being the pillar of the spectrum community Ive tried to be (also found out today I inadvertently fucked a fellow wisp on a bad choice I made with no follow up, I owned it with him and will be working on fixing that as of tomorrow) I approach everything with combat boots, assuming a battle. I'm guessing when it gets in the database this backhaul is going to be UBNT 11ghz, or some other nonsense (probably affiliated with the over wind loaded tower 3/4 miles away with 3, yes 3, UBNT 5ghz peanut shaped airfibers within 8 feet of one another (one link, one side points to the sky the other side points to the dirt) The question I have is about lease rules, and contract law, which the bulk of you old timers has dealt with. If the other operator (if its who I suspect it is, they use fuckery, like the UBNT demo mode, or whatever its called and other such garbage to even operate overpowered in DFS channels) doesn't want to play ball, as in "shut that shit off" will we be able to fight it? I know what went down, and how it went down, and I suspect I know who it is. The usual, guy approaches a site owner, offers unrealistic unicorn farts, unicorn farts always win, spectrum gets fucked. We do 5 year auto renewing leases, with 2 year breakouts. (you guys would likely cream your jeans seeing our lease, and though Ive asked, no I cant share it publicly, and yes, it was drawn up by an attorney) we get full control of the 5, 6, 11, 3, 2, 900mhz, etc spectrum (I don't have a lease handy to see the specific wording) per the site. I know we wouldn't have a horse in the race with the FCC, but with this boiling down to contract law, whats to stop us from A. willful interference (assuming out power doesn't get cut) and B. a cease and desist from a court for the other ISP, pending the 2 year termination? I'm handing this to the boss to handle, because my communication will start with "listen here motherfucker" and I don't see that as conducive to a positive outcome. I had my boy with me when I came to the site today because I was just getting accurate AGLs for bringing in a licensed backhaul. If he hadn't been with me, I probably would have yanked their ghetto enclosure off the wall and shot their antennas. Ill tell you what, I'm about to start acting like a lot of these yahoos and saying fuck the FCC, fuck good stewardship of the spectrum, and fuck general good manners. TBH I'm not sure if I'm asking advice here or just venting. probably both. but FYI, I'm so pissed off right now, if you have an ex old lady who needs disappeared, I'm your freaking guy >>> >>> >> >
Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)
Your recourse would be with the landlord. Unfortunately this puts them in a bad situation since they violated the terms of your lease with them. I don't think you have any way to make a claim agianst the other ISP unless you had some non-compete agreement with them or something. On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 3:10 PM, Steve Jones wrote: > is there realistically any recourse? > > On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Mitch Koep wrote: > >> And your question is? >> >> >> >> On 6/27/2017 11:05 PM, Steve Jones wrote: >> >>> I am not asking about any FCC Part X rules, I know this isn't an FCC >>> issue under any circumstances. >>> >>> We have leases with all our POP landlords, in the lease we own the site >>> spectrum, with the exception of very few locations we don't collocate, just >>> not worth the hassle. >>> >>> I come rolling up on a site today, 100 feet from our POP is a new POP, >>> not us, cause though I used to enjoy spooning some powder with baking soda, >>> I don't smoke crack, POP#2 isn't ours, even though its on the same >>> property, Id recall a full EPMP and backhaul deployment. >>> >>> I'm an honest operator, very honest, like the first time UBT sent us new >>> stickers for spectrum I made sure we actually put them out (be honest, >>> pretty much NOBODY did that) I turn down power where we don't need it. I do >>> my best to make sure we are compliant. I fought bosses to remove non >>> compliant stuff I put up before I knew better. For the most part, I'm a >>> good fucking neighbor, ask anybody abutting me. (with the exception of one >>> location I collocate where I'm a dick, but a legal dick) >>> >>> So you can understand my dismay, being the pillar of the spectrum >>> community Ive tried to be (also found out today I inadvertently fucked a >>> fellow wisp on a bad choice I made with no follow up, I owned it with him >>> and will be working on fixing that as of tomorrow) >>> >>> I approach everything with combat boots, assuming a battle. I'm guessing >>> when it gets in the database this backhaul is going to be UBNT 11ghz, or >>> some other nonsense (probably affiliated with the over wind loaded tower >>> 3/4 miles away with 3, yes 3, UBNT 5ghz peanut shaped airfibers within 8 >>> feet of one another (one link, one side points to the sky the other side >>> points to the dirt) >>> >>> The question I have is about lease rules, and contract law, which the >>> bulk of you old timers has dealt with. If the other operator (if its who I >>> suspect it is, they use fuckery, like the UBNT demo mode, or whatever its >>> called and other such garbage to even operate overpowered in DFS channels) >>> doesn't want to play ball, as in "shut that shit off" will we be able to >>> fight it? >>> >>> I know what went down, and how it went down, and I suspect I know who it >>> is. The usual, guy approaches a site owner, offers unrealistic unicorn >>> farts, unicorn farts always win, spectrum gets fucked. >>> >>> We do 5 year auto renewing leases, with 2 year breakouts. (you guys >>> would likely cream your jeans seeing our lease, and though Ive asked, no I >>> cant share it publicly, and yes, it was drawn up by an attorney) we get >>> full control of the 5, 6, 11, 3, 2, 900mhz, etc spectrum (I don't have a >>> lease handy to see the specific wording) per the site. >>> >>> I know we wouldn't have a horse in the race with the FCC, but with this >>> boiling down to contract law, whats to stop us from A. willful interference >>> (assuming out power doesn't get cut) and B. a cease and desist from a court >>> for the other ISP, pending the 2 year termination? >>> >>> I'm handing this to the boss to handle, because my communication will >>> start with "listen here motherfucker" and I don't see that as conducive to >>> a positive outcome. I had my boy with me when I came to the site today >>> because I was just getting accurate AGLs for bringing in a licensed >>> backhaul. If he hadn't been with me, I probably would have yanked their >>> ghetto enclosure off the wall and shot their antennas. >>> >>> Ill tell you what, I'm about to start acting like a lot of these yahoos >>> and saying fuck the FCC, fuck good stewardship of the spectrum, and fuck >>> general good manners. >>> >>> TBH I'm not sure if I'm asking advice here or just venting. probably >>> both. but FYI, I'm so pissed off right now, if you have an ex old lady who >>> needs disappeared, I'm your freaking guy >>> >> >> >
Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)
is there realistically any recourse? On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Mitch Koep wrote: > And your question is? > > > > On 6/27/2017 11:05 PM, Steve Jones wrote: > >> I am not asking about any FCC Part X rules, I know this isn't an FCC >> issue under any circumstances. >> >> We have leases with all our POP landlords, in the lease we own the site >> spectrum, with the exception of very few locations we don't collocate, just >> not worth the hassle. >> >> I come rolling up on a site today, 100 feet from our POP is a new POP, >> not us, cause though I used to enjoy spooning some powder with baking soda, >> I don't smoke crack, POP#2 isn't ours, even though its on the same >> property, Id recall a full EPMP and backhaul deployment. >> >> I'm an honest operator, very honest, like the first time UBT sent us new >> stickers for spectrum I made sure we actually put them out (be honest, >> pretty much NOBODY did that) I turn down power where we don't need it. I do >> my best to make sure we are compliant. I fought bosses to remove non >> compliant stuff I put up before I knew better. For the most part, I'm a >> good fucking neighbor, ask anybody abutting me. (with the exception of one >> location I collocate where I'm a dick, but a legal dick) >> >> So you can understand my dismay, being the pillar of the spectrum >> community Ive tried to be (also found out today I inadvertently fucked a >> fellow wisp on a bad choice I made with no follow up, I owned it with him >> and will be working on fixing that as of tomorrow) >> >> I approach everything with combat boots, assuming a battle. I'm guessing >> when it gets in the database this backhaul is going to be UBNT 11ghz, or >> some other nonsense (probably affiliated with the over wind loaded tower >> 3/4 miles away with 3, yes 3, UBNT 5ghz peanut shaped airfibers within 8 >> feet of one another (one link, one side points to the sky the other side >> points to the dirt) >> >> The question I have is about lease rules, and contract law, which the >> bulk of you old timers has dealt with. If the other operator (if its who I >> suspect it is, they use fuckery, like the UBNT demo mode, or whatever its >> called and other such garbage to even operate overpowered in DFS channels) >> doesn't want to play ball, as in "shut that shit off" will we be able to >> fight it? >> >> I know what went down, and how it went down, and I suspect I know who it >> is. The usual, guy approaches a site owner, offers unrealistic unicorn >> farts, unicorn farts always win, spectrum gets fucked. >> >> We do 5 year auto renewing leases, with 2 year breakouts. (you guys would >> likely cream your jeans seeing our lease, and though Ive asked, no I cant >> share it publicly, and yes, it was drawn up by an attorney) we get full >> control of the 5, 6, 11, 3, 2, 900mhz, etc spectrum (I don't have a lease >> handy to see the specific wording) per the site. >> >> I know we wouldn't have a horse in the race with the FCC, but with this >> boiling down to contract law, whats to stop us from A. willful interference >> (assuming out power doesn't get cut) and B. a cease and desist from a court >> for the other ISP, pending the 2 year termination? >> >> I'm handing this to the boss to handle, because my communication will >> start with "listen here motherfucker" and I don't see that as conducive to >> a positive outcome. I had my boy with me when I came to the site today >> because I was just getting accurate AGLs for bringing in a licensed >> backhaul. If he hadn't been with me, I probably would have yanked their >> ghetto enclosure off the wall and shot their antennas. >> >> Ill tell you what, I'm about to start acting like a lot of these yahoos >> and saying fuck the FCC, fuck good stewardship of the spectrum, and fuck >> general good manners. >> >> TBH I'm not sure if I'm asking advice here or just venting. probably >> both. but FYI, I'm so pissed off right now, if you have an ex old lady who >> needs disappeared, I'm your freaking guy >> > >
Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)
And your question is? On 6/27/2017 11:05 PM, Steve Jones wrote: I am not asking about any FCC Part X rules, I know this isn't an FCC issue under any circumstances. We have leases with all our POP landlords, in the lease we own the site spectrum, with the exception of very few locations we don't collocate, just not worth the hassle. I come rolling up on a site today, 100 feet from our POP is a new POP, not us, cause though I used to enjoy spooning some powder with baking soda, I don't smoke crack, POP#2 isn't ours, even though its on the same property, Id recall a full EPMP and backhaul deployment. I'm an honest operator, very honest, like the first time UBT sent us new stickers for spectrum I made sure we actually put them out (be honest, pretty much NOBODY did that) I turn down power where we don't need it. I do my best to make sure we are compliant. I fought bosses to remove non compliant stuff I put up before I knew better. For the most part, I'm a good fucking neighbor, ask anybody abutting me. (with the exception of one location I collocate where I'm a dick, but a legal dick) So you can understand my dismay, being the pillar of the spectrum community Ive tried to be (also found out today I inadvertently fucked a fellow wisp on a bad choice I made with no follow up, I owned it with him and will be working on fixing that as of tomorrow) I approach everything with combat boots, assuming a battle. I'm guessing when it gets in the database this backhaul is going to be UBNT 11ghz, or some other nonsense (probably affiliated with the over wind loaded tower 3/4 miles away with 3, yes 3, UBNT 5ghz peanut shaped airfibers within 8 feet of one another (one link, one side points to the sky the other side points to the dirt) The question I have is about lease rules, and contract law, which the bulk of you old timers has dealt with. If the other operator (if its who I suspect it is, they use fuckery, like the UBNT demo mode, or whatever its called and other such garbage to even operate overpowered in DFS channels) doesn't want to play ball, as in "shut that shit off" will we be able to fight it? I know what went down, and how it went down, and I suspect I know who it is. The usual, guy approaches a site owner, offers unrealistic unicorn farts, unicorn farts always win, spectrum gets fucked. We do 5 year auto renewing leases, with 2 year breakouts. (you guys would likely cream your jeans seeing our lease, and though Ive asked, no I cant share it publicly, and yes, it was drawn up by an attorney) we get full control of the 5, 6, 11, 3, 2, 900mhz, etc spectrum (I don't have a lease handy to see the specific wording) per the site. I know we wouldn't have a horse in the race with the FCC, but with this boiling down to contract law, whats to stop us from A. willful interference (assuming out power doesn't get cut) and B. a cease and desist from a court for the other ISP, pending the 2 year termination? I'm handing this to the boss to handle, because my communication will start with "listen here motherfucker" and I don't see that as conducive to a positive outcome. I had my boy with me when I came to the site today because I was just getting accurate AGLs for bringing in a licensed backhaul. If he hadn't been with me, I probably would have yanked their ghetto enclosure off the wall and shot their antennas. Ill tell you what, I'm about to start acting like a lot of these yahoos and saying fuck the FCC, fuck good stewardship of the spectrum, and fuck general good manners. TBH I'm not sure if I'm asking advice here or just venting. probably both. but FYI, I'm so pissed off right now, if you have an ex old lady who needs disappeared, I'm your freaking guy