Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
bloat isnt survivable? I thought that was a basic tenet of successful ventures On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 8:56 PM, Gino Villarini wrote: > https://gizmodo.com/google-fiber-halts-operations-in-ten- > cities-1788214992?rev=1477443092657&utm_campaign= > socialflow_gizmodo_facebook&utm_source=gizmodo_facebook& > utm_medium=socialflow -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
Moving folks to wireless Aye Dios On Oct 25, 2016 7:56 PM, "Gino Villarini" wrote: > https://gizmodo.com/google-fiber-halts-operations-in-ten- > cities-1788214992?rev=1477443092657&utm_campaign= > socialflow_gizmodo_facebook&utm_source=gizmodo_facebook& > utm_medium=socialflow
Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
New ones. They're still deploying existing networks. They just opened up a few new areas in Kansas City recently. On Oct 25, 2016 9:03 PM, "Jaime Solorza" wrote: > Moving folks to wireless Aye Dios > > On Oct 25, 2016 7:56 PM, "Gino Villarini" wrote: > >> https://gizmodo.com/google-fiber-halts-operations-in-ten-cit >> ies-1788214992?rev=1477443092657&utm_campaign=socialflow_ >> gizmodo_facebook&utm_source=gizmodo_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow > >
Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
Their contractor are still hiring installer in Austin. Need to probably understand why those cities not others? Tushar > On Oct 25, 2016, at 9:06 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote: > > New ones. They're still deploying existing networks. They just opened up a > few new areas in Kansas City recently. > > >> On Oct 25, 2016 9:03 PM, "Jaime Solorza" wrote: >> Moving folks to wireless Aye Dios >> >> >>> On Oct 25, 2016 7:56 PM, "Gino Villarini" wrote: >>> https://gizmodo.com/google-fiber-halts-operations-in-ten-cities-1788214992?rev=1477443092657&utm_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_facebook&utm_source=gizmodo_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow
Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
Big surprise there. They built it and no one came. Rory From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Tushar Patel Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 7:14 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more Their contractor are still hiring installer in Austin. Need to probably understand why those cities not others? Tushar On Oct 25, 2016, at 9:06 PM, Josh Reynolds mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>> wrote: New ones. They're still deploying existing networks. They just opened up a few new areas in Kansas City recently. On Oct 25, 2016 9:03 PM, "Jaime Solorza" mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote: Moving folks to wireless Aye Dios On Oct 25, 2016 7:56 PM, "Gino Villarini" mailto:ginovi...@gmail.com>> wrote: https://gizmodo.com/google-fiber-halts-operations-in-ten-cities-1788214992?rev=1477443092657&utm_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_facebook&utm_source=gizmodo_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow
Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
I'd love to see their overall take rates. I have heard numbers of 75-85% in more affluent areas. They cherry picked neighborhoods for sure though. On Oct 25, 2016 10:15 PM, "Rory Conaway" wrote: > Big surprise there. They built it and no one came. > > > > Rory > > > > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Tushar Patel > *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 7:14 PM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more > > > > Their contractor are still hiring installer in Austin. > > > > Need to probably understand why those cities not others? > > Tushar > > > > > On Oct 25, 2016, at 9:06 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote: > > New ones. They're still deploying existing networks. They just opened up a > few new areas in Kansas City recently. > > > > On Oct 25, 2016 9:03 PM, "Jaime Solorza" > wrote: > > Moving folks to wireless Aye Dios > > > > On Oct 25, 2016 7:56 PM, "Gino Villarini" wrote: > > https://gizmodo.com/google-fiber-halts-operations-in-ten- > cities-1788214992?rev=1477443092657&utm_campaign= > socialflow_gizmodo_facebook&utm_source=gizmodo_facebook& > utm_medium=socialflow > >
Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
Absolutely they cherry picked. Then they went into MDU’s for pennies and lost their shirts. Rory From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 9:34 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more I'd love to see their overall take rates. I have heard numbers of 75-85% in more affluent areas. They cherry picked neighborhoods for sure though. On Oct 25, 2016 10:15 PM, "Rory Conaway" mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>> wrote: Big surprise there. They built it and no one came. Rory From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf Of Tushar Patel Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 7:14 PM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more Their contractor are still hiring installer in Austin. Need to probably understand why those cities not others? Tushar On Oct 25, 2016, at 9:06 PM, Josh Reynolds mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>> wrote: New ones. They're still deploying existing networks. They just opened up a few new areas in Kansas City recently. On Oct 25, 2016 9:03 PM, "Jaime Solorza" mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote: Moving folks to wireless Aye Dios On Oct 25, 2016 7:56 PM, "Gino Villarini" mailto:ginovi...@gmail.com>> wrote: https://gizmodo.com/google-fiber-halts-operations-in-ten-cities-1788214992?rev=1477443092657&utm_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_facebook&utm_source=gizmodo_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow
Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
I don't think that's true. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Rory Conaway" To: af@afmug.com Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 10:15:32 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more Big surprise there. They built it and no one came. Rory From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Tushar Patel Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 7:14 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more Their contractor are still hiring installer in Austin. Need to probably understand why those cities not others? Tushar On Oct 25, 2016, at 9:06 PM, Josh Reynolds < j...@kyneticwifi.com > wrote: New ones. They're still deploying existing networks. They just opened up a few new areas in Kansas City recently. On Oct 25, 2016 9:03 PM, "Jaime Solorza" < losguyswirel...@gmail.com > wrote: Moving folks to wireless Aye Dios On Oct 25, 2016 7:56 PM, "Gino Villarini" < ginovi...@gmail.com > wrote: https://gizmodo.com/google-fiber-halts-operations-in-ten-cities-1788214992?rev=1477443092657&utm_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_facebook&utm_source=gizmodo_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow
Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
From the director of one of the Google Fiber builds (in Provo) that is not the case. He said they overspent on contractors MAJORLY. And that was just to expand the existing network to all homes in that area. He argued with his bosses about he extravagant added fees on construction but they just said to pay them, no questions asked. I had some of those figures from him at that conversation and some costs were over 80x what it should have been. My best guess is that all the fiber build in certain areas increased the contract cost of build into the stratosphere. And now they are reigning it in and going wireless to attempt to defray the costs. At least with Provo they were not allowed to cherry pick, it was build everyone. And it seems like they picked up a large portion of the communities, but I didn’t get overall take rate. From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 12:56 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more Absolutely they cherry picked. Then they went into MDU’s for pennies and lost their shirts. Rory From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 9:34 PM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more I'd love to see their overall take rates. I have heard numbers of 75-85% in more affluent areas. They cherry picked neighborhoods for sure though. On Oct 25, 2016 10:15 PM, "Rory Conaway" mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>> wrote: Big surprise there. They built it and no one came. Rory From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf Of Tushar Patel Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 7:14 PM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more Their contractor are still hiring installer in Austin. Need to probably understand why those cities not others? Tushar On Oct 25, 2016, at 9:06 PM, Josh Reynolds mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>> wrote: New ones. They're still deploying existing networks. They just opened up a few new areas in Kansas City recently. On Oct 25, 2016 9:03 PM, "Jaime Solorza" mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote: Moving folks to wireless Aye Dios On Oct 25, 2016 7:56 PM, "Gino Villarini" mailto:ginovi...@gmail.com>> wrote: https://gizmodo.com/google-fiber-halts-operations-in-ten-cities-1788214992?rev=1477443092657&utm_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_facebook&utm_source=gizmodo_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow
Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
In other cities, they cherry picked. Rory From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 7:00 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more From the director of one of the Google Fiber builds (in Provo) that is not the case. He said they overspent on contractors MAJORLY. And that was just to expand the existing network to all homes in that area. He argued with his bosses about he extravagant added fees on construction but they just said to pay them, no questions asked. I had some of those figures from him at that conversation and some costs were over 80x what it should have been. My best guess is that all the fiber build in certain areas increased the contract cost of build into the stratosphere. And now they are reigning it in and going wireless to attempt to defray the costs. At least with Provo they were not allowed to cherry pick, it was build everyone. And it seems like they picked up a large portion of the communities, but I didn’t get overall take rate. From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 12:56 AM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more Absolutely they cherry picked. Then they went into MDU’s for pennies and lost their shirts. Rory From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 9:34 PM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more I'd love to see their overall take rates. I have heard numbers of 75-85% in more affluent areas. They cherry picked neighborhoods for sure though. On Oct 25, 2016 10:15 PM, "Rory Conaway" mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>> wrote: Big surprise there. They built it and no one came. Rory From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf Of Tushar Patel Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 7:14 PM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more Their contractor are still hiring installer in Austin. Need to probably understand why those cities not others? Tushar On Oct 25, 2016, at 9:06 PM, Josh Reynolds mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>> wrote: New ones. They're still deploying existing networks. They just opened up a few new areas in Kansas City recently. On Oct 25, 2016 9:03 PM, "Jaime Solorza" mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote: Moving folks to wireless Aye Dios On Oct 25, 2016 7:56 PM, "Gino Villarini" mailto:ginovi...@gmail.com>> wrote: https://gizmodo.com/google-fiber-halts-operations-in-ten-cities-1788214992?rev=1477443092657&utm_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_facebook&utm_source=gizmodo_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow
Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
As they should. Don't build where people who can't pay or don't want your service. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Rory Conaway" To: af@afmug.com Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 11:28:52 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more In other cities, they cherry picked. Rory From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 7:00 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more >From the director of one of the Google Fiber builds (in Provo) that is not the >case. He said they overspent on contractors MAJORLY. And that was just to expand the existing network to all homes in that area. He argued with his bosses about he extravagant added fees on construction but they just said to pay them, no questions asked. I had some of those figures from him at that conversation and some costs were over 80x what it should have been. My best guess is that all the fiber build in certain areas increased the contract cost of build into the stratosphere. And now they are reigning it in and going wireless to attempt to defray the costs. At least with Provo they were not allowed to cherry pick, it was build everyone. And it seems like they picked up a large portion of the communities, but I didn’t get overall take rate. From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 12:56 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more Absolutely they cherry picked. Then they went into MDU’s for pennies and lost their shirts. Rory From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 9:34 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more I'd love to see their overall take rates. I have heard numbers of 75-85% in more affluent areas. They cherry picked neighborhoods for sure though. On Oct 25, 2016 10:15 PM, "Rory Conaway" < r...@triadwireless.net > wrote: Big surprise there. They built it and no one came. Rory From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Tushar Patel Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 7:14 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more Their contractor are still hiring installer in Austin. Need to probably understand why those cities not others? Tushar On Oct 25, 2016, at 9:06 PM, Josh Reynolds < j...@kyneticwifi.com > wrote: New ones. They're still deploying existing networks. They just opened up a few new areas in Kansas City recently. On Oct 25, 2016 9:03 PM, "Jaime Solorza" < losguyswirel...@gmail.com > wrote: Moving folks to wireless Aye Dios On Oct 25, 2016 7:56 PM, "Gino Villarini" < ginovi...@gmail.com > wrote: https://gizmodo.com/google-fiber-halts-operations-in-ten-cities-1788214992?rev=1477443092657&utm_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_facebook&utm_source=gizmodo_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow
Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
I worked directly on the San Jose and Sand Diego projects. I was brought in by one of the main contractors to help reduce costs and increase efficiency. Google had way too many “30 somethings” who failed to listen to experienced telecom professionals. That was one of their biggest faults. It was insane to try and build a network in San Jose that was going to have to be built mostly underground. That market already had new AT&T U-verse fiber and Time Warner with a very strong network. Heck I could get 100 meg speeds on Wi-Fi at the hotel I stayed in. Their Ego to build in their own backyard was pushing the build more than anything. The concept of cherry picking neighborhoods actually drove costs up. When they wanted a citywide network design, that is what they were delivered, but then try and build out only neighborhoods they wanted while still trying to figure out how much of their backbones, huts and neighborhood distribution system needed to be put in place to service the piecemeal buildout approach, when you were already having to open ditches, while having to be a mostly underground build? Yea that was a nightmare too! Then let’s talk about how they had no clue how hard the MDU market is to secure. They gave no real consideration to existing deals in the buildings, or the cost of having to wire on their own because the building owner did not actually own the existing cable plant and such. These projects were not just a simple math problem to solve. They naively thought every city was going to welcome them with open arms like Kansas City did. They believed the political hype the politicians told them to lure them to their cities, then when actual laws both of physics and real came in to play, the numbers looked a whole lot uglier. Underground building in established cities is a nightmare in both costs, regulations, logistics and amount of work required. Just simple things like trying to gather data on all the existing underground infrastructure (that has no central source of documentation) was painful and costly. You can’t get drawings approved without first showing you will not be interfering with existing utilities already underground. In many cases you have to manually locate this stuff and then map it and then do your design around that information. Other issues to overhead builds were poles that would not pass loading calculations, pole owners who were less than cooperative or that pulled out new loading rules that they themselves don’t follow and you can see where it was not a simple process. The employee count to deal with all of this on a large scale at the pace they wanted to move was not small by any stretch. This was not new news. They pulled the plug on all of this stuff back at the beginning of July. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com www.Broadband-Mapping.com From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:32 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more As they should. Don't build where people who can't pay or don't want your service. - Mike Hammett <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> _ From: "Rory Conaway" To: af@afmug.com Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 11:28:52 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more In other cities, they cherry picked. Rory From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 7:00 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more >From the director of one of the Google Fiber builds (in Provo) that is not the >case. He said they overspent on contractors MAJORLY. And that was just to expand the existing network to all homes in that area. He argued with his bosses about he extravagant added fees on construction but they just said to pay them, no questions asked. I had some of those figures from him at that conversation and some costs were over 80x what it should have been. My best guess is that all the fiber build in certain areas increased the contract cost of build into the stratosphere. And now they are reigning it in and going wireless to attempt to defray the costs. At least with Provo they were not allowed to cher
Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
Phd syndrome... Getting an advanced degree at a big Uni gives you almost zero experience in the trenches... The move to wireless means that they can buy their way into the FCC and move down from there... On 10/27/16 6:40 AM, Brian Webster wrote: I worked directly on the San Jose and Sand Diego projects. I was brought in by one of the main contractors to help reduce costs and increase efficiency. Google had way too many �30 somethings� who failed to listen to experienced telecom professionals. That was one of their biggest faults. It was insane to try and build a network in San Jose that was going to have to be built mostly underground. That market already had new AT&T U-verse fiber and Time Warner with a very strong network. Heck I could get 100 meg speeds on Wi-Fi at the hotel I stayed in. Their Ego to build in their own backyard was pushing the build more than anything. The concept of cherry picking neighborhoods actually drove costs up. When they wanted a citywide network design, that is what they were delivered, but then try and build out only neighborhoods they wanted while still trying to figure out how much of their backbones, huts and neighborhood distribution system needed to be put in place to service the piecemeal buildout approach, when you were already having to open ditches, while having to be a mostly underground build? Yea that was a nightmare too! Then let�s talk about how they had no clue how hard the MDU market is to secure. They gave no real consideration to existing deals in the buildings, or the cost of having to wire on their own because the building owner did not actually own the existing cable plant and such. These projects were not just a simple math problem to solve. They naively thought every city was going to welcome them with open arms like Kansas City did. They believed the political hype the politicians told them to lure them to their cities, then when actual laws both of physics and real came in to play, the numbers looked a whole lot uglier. Underground building in established cities is a nightmare in both costs, regulations, logistics and amount of work required. Just simple things like trying to gather data on all the existing underground infrastructure (that has no central source of documentation) was painful and costly. You can�t get drawings approved without first showing you will not be interfering with existing utilities already underground. In many cases you have to manually locate this stuff and then map it and then do your design around that information. Other issues to overhead builds were poles that would not pass loading calculations, pole owners who were less than cooperative or that pulled out new loading rules that they themselves don�t follow and you can see where it was not a simple process. The employee count to deal with all of this on a large scale at the pace they wanted to move was not small by any stretch. This was not new news. They pulled the plug on all of this stuff back at the beginning of July. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com <http://www.wirelessmapping.com> www.Broadband-Mapping.com *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett *Sent:* Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:32 AM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more As they should. Don't build where people who can't pay or don't want your service. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> *From: *"Rory Conaway" mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>> *To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> *Sent: *Wednesday, October 26, 2016 11:28:52 PM *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more In other cities, they cherry picked. Rory *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Sterling Jacobson *Sent:* Wednesday, October 26, 2016 7:00 PM *To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more From the director of one of the Google Fiber builds (in Provo) that is not the case. He said they overspent on contractors MAJORLY. And that was just to expand the existing network to all homes in that area. He argued with his bosses about he extravagant added fees on construction but they just said to pay them, no q
Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
I predict the PhD syndrome is going to also affect the wireless end. Vivant tried and failed. 30 somethings that slept through physics are going to run up against the hard limits of trees, hills and rain. Doesn't matter how crazy the radio is, they will learn as everyone that tries RF distribution learns. 5 years they will be back to fiber. Or deciding not to be part of the transport solution. -Original Message- From: Robert Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:49 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more Phd syndrome... Getting an advanced degree at a big Uni gives you almost zero experience in the trenches... The move to wireless means that they can buy their way into the FCC and move down from there... On 10/27/16 6:40 AM, Brian Webster wrote: I worked directly on the San Jose and Sand Diego projects. I was brought in by one of the main contractors to help reduce costs and increase efficiency. Google had way too many �30 somethings� who failed to listen to experienced telecom professionals. That was one of their biggest faults. It was insane to try and build a network in San Jose that was going to have to be built mostly underground. That market already had new AT&T U-verse fiber and Time Warner with a very strong network. Heck I could get 100 meg speeds on Wi-Fi at the hotel I stayed in. Their Ego to build in their own backyard was pushing the build more than anything. The concept of cherry picking neighborhoods actually drove costs up. When they wanted a citywide network design, that is what they were delivered, but then try and build out only neighborhoods they wanted while still trying to figure out how much of their backbones, huts and neighborhood distribution system needed to be put in place to service the piecemeal buildout approach, when you were already having to open ditches, while having to be a mostly underground build? Yea that was a nightmare too! Then let�s talk about how they had no clue how hard the MDU market is to secure. They gave no real consideration to existing deals in the buildings, or the cost of having to wire on their own because the building owner did not actually own the existing cable plant and such. These projects were not just a simple math problem to solve. They naively thought every city was going to welcome them with open arms like Kansas City did. They believed the political hype the politicians told them to lure them to their cities, then when actual laws both of physics and real came in to play, the numbers looked a whole lot uglier. Underground building in established cities is a nightmare in both costs, regulations, logistics and amount of work required. Just simple things like trying to gather data on all the existing underground infrastructure (that has no central source of documentation) was painful and costly. You can�t get drawings approved without first showing you will not be interfering with existing utilities already underground. In many cases you have to manually locate this stuff and then map it and then do your design around that information. Other issues to overhead builds were poles that would not pass loading calculations, pole owners who were less than cooperative or that pulled out new loading rules that they themselves don�t follow and you can see where it was not a simple process. The employee count to deal with all of this on a large scale at the pace they wanted to move was not small by any stretch. This was not new news. They pulled the plug on all of this stuff back at the beginning of July. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com <http://www.wirelessmapping.com> www.Broadband-Mapping.com *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett *Sent:* Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:32 AM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more As they should. Don't build where people who can't pay or don't want your service. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> *From: *"Rory Conaway" mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>> *To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> *Sent: *Wednesday, October 26, 2016 11:28:52 PM *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more In other cities, they cher
Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
Microwave to MTU/MDU rooftop. Proven business model. Ask Teligent, Winstar, Nextlink. In fairness, now almost 20 years later, there is more demand for what they are selling. But also more competition. And it's not like nobody is doing this already. Like in Chicago SilverIP comes to mind. -Original Message- From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:05 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more I predict the PhD syndrome is going to also affect the wireless end. Vivant tried and failed. 30 somethings that slept through physics are going to run up against the hard limits of trees, hills and rain. Doesn't matter how crazy the radio is, they will learn as everyone that tries RF distribution learns. 5 years they will be back to fiber. Or deciding not to be part of the transport solution. -Original Message- From: Robert Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:49 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more Phd syndrome... Getting an advanced degree at a big Uni gives you almost zero experience in the trenches... The move to wireless means that they can buy their way into the FCC and move down from there... On 10/27/16 6:40 AM, Brian Webster wrote: > I worked directly on the San Jose and Sand Diego projects. I was > brought in by one of the main contractors to help reduce costs and > increase efficiency. Google had way too many �30 somethings� who > failed to listen to experienced telecom professionals. That was one of > their biggest faults. It was insane to try and build a network in San > Jose that was going to have to be built mostly underground. That > market already had new AT&T U-verse fiber and Time Warner with a very > strong network. Heck I could get 100 meg speeds on Wi-Fi at the hotel > I stayed in. Their Ego to build in their own backyard was pushing the > build more than anything. > > > > The concept of cherry picking neighborhoods actually drove costs up. > When they wanted a citywide network design, that is what they were > delivered, but then try and build out only neighborhoods they wanted > while still trying to figure out how much of their backbones, huts and > neighborhood distribution system needed to be put in place to service > the piecemeal buildout approach, when you were already having to open > ditches, while having to be a mostly underground build? Yea that was a > nightmare too! Then let�s talk about how they had no clue how hard > the MDU market is to secure. They gave no real consideration to > existing deals in the buildings, or the cost of having to wire on > their own because the building owner did not actually own the existing > cable plant and such. These projects were not just a simple math problem to solve. > > > > They naively thought every city was going to welcome them with open > arms like Kansas City did. They believed the political hype the > politicians told them to lure them to their cities, then when actual > laws both of physics and real came in to play, the numbers looked a whole lot uglier. > Underground building in established cities is a nightmare in both > costs, regulations, logistics and amount of work required. Just simple > things like trying to gather data on all the existing underground > infrastructure (that has no central source of documentation) was > painful and costly. You can�t get drawings approved without first > showing you will not be interfering with existing utilities already > underground. In many cases you have to manually locate this stuff and > then map it and then do your design around that information. Other > issues to overhead builds were poles that would not pass loading > calculations, pole owners who were less than cooperative or that > pulled out new loading rules that they themselves don�t follow and > you can see where it was not a simple process. The employee count to > deal with all of this on a large scale at the pace they wanted to move was not small by any stretch. > > > > This was not new news. They pulled the plug on all of this stuff back > at the beginning of July. > > > > Thank You, > > Brian Webster > > www.wirelessmapping.com <http://www.wirelessmapping.com> > > www.Broadband-Mapping.com > > > > *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett > *Sent:* Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:32 AM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more > > > > As they should. Don't build where people who can't pay or don't want > your service. > > > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> > <https:
Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
But how about microwave to the home? That is what people expect when they hear Google is coming to town. GigE to the home. I think the MTU market may eventually struggle with getting enough BW via microwave as well. With an apartment building with 250 people all expecting a gig, hard to do with microwave. -Original Message- From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 10:27 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more Microwave to MTU/MDU rooftop. Proven business model. Ask Teligent, Winstar, Nextlink. In fairness, now almost 20 years later, there is more demand for what they are selling. But also more competition. And it's not like nobody is doing this already. Like in Chicago SilverIP comes to mind. -Original Message- From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:05 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more I predict the PhD syndrome is going to also affect the wireless end. Vivant tried and failed. 30 somethings that slept through physics are going to run up against the hard limits of trees, hills and rain. Doesn't matter how crazy the radio is, they will learn as everyone that tries RF distribution learns. 5 years they will be back to fiber. Or deciding not to be part of the transport solution. -Original Message- From: Robert Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:49 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more Phd syndrome... Getting an advanced degree at a big Uni gives you almost zero experience in the trenches... The move to wireless means that they can buy their way into the FCC and move down from there... On 10/27/16 6:40 AM, Brian Webster wrote: I worked directly on the San Jose and Sand Diego projects. I was brought in by one of the main contractors to help reduce costs and increase efficiency. Google had way too many �30 somethings� who failed to listen to experienced telecom professionals. That was one of their biggest faults. It was insane to try and build a network in San Jose that was going to have to be built mostly underground. That market already had new AT&T U-verse fiber and Time Warner with a very strong network. Heck I could get 100 meg speeds on Wi-Fi at the hotel I stayed in. Their Ego to build in their own backyard was pushing the build more than anything. The concept of cherry picking neighborhoods actually drove costs up. When they wanted a citywide network design, that is what they were delivered, but then try and build out only neighborhoods they wanted while still trying to figure out how much of their backbones, huts and neighborhood distribution system needed to be put in place to service the piecemeal buildout approach, when you were already having to open ditches, while having to be a mostly underground build? Yea that was a nightmare too! Then let�s talk about how they had no clue how hard the MDU market is to secure. They gave no real consideration to existing deals in the buildings, or the cost of having to wire on their own because the building owner did not actually own the existing cable plant and such. These projects were not just a simple math problem to solve. They naively thought every city was going to welcome them with open arms like Kansas City did. They believed the political hype the politicians told them to lure them to their cities, then when actual laws both of physics and real came in to play, the numbers looked a whole lot uglier. Underground building in established cities is a nightmare in both costs, regulations, logistics and amount of work required. Just simple things like trying to gather data on all the existing underground infrastructure (that has no central source of documentation) was painful and costly. You can�t get drawings approved without first showing you will not be interfering with existing utilities already underground. In many cases you have to manually locate this stuff and then map it and then do your design around that information. Other issues to overhead builds were poles that would not pass loading calculations, pole owners who were less than cooperative or that pulled out new loading rules that they themselves don�t follow and you can see where it was not a simple process. The employee count to deal with all of this on a large scale at the pace they wanted to move was not small by any stretch. This was not new news. They pulled the plug on all of this stuff back at the beginning of July. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com <http://www.wirelessmapping.com> www.Broadband-Mapping.com *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett *Sent:* Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:32 AM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more As they should. Don't build where people who can't pay or don't want your service. - Mike Hammett In
Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
PhD=push here dummy On Oct 27, 2016 7:49 AM, "Robert" wrote: > Phd syndrome... Getting an advanced degree at a big Uni gives you almost > zero experience in the trenches... The move to wireless means that they > can buy their way into the FCC and move down from there... > > On 10/27/16 6:40 AM, Brian Webster wrote: > >> I worked directly on the San Jose and Sand Diego projects. I was brought >> in by one of the main contractors to help reduce costs and increase >> efficiency. Google had way too many �30 somethings� who failed to >> listen >> to experienced telecom professionals. That was one of their biggest >> faults. It was insane to try and build a network in San Jose that was >> going to have to be built mostly underground. That market already had >> new AT&T U-verse fiber and Time Warner with a very strong network. Heck >> I could get 100 meg speeds on Wi-Fi at the hotel I stayed in. Their Ego >> to build in their own backyard was pushing the build more than anything. >> >> >> >> The concept of cherry picking neighborhoods actually drove costs up. >> When they wanted a citywide network design, that is what they were >> delivered, but then try and build out only neighborhoods they wanted >> while still trying to figure out how much of their backbones, huts and >> neighborhood distribution system needed to be put in place to service >> the piecemeal buildout approach, when you were already having to open >> ditches, while having to be a mostly underground build? Yea that was a >> nightmare too! Then let�s talk about how they had no clue how hard the >> MDU market is to secure. They gave no real consideration to existing >> deals in the buildings, or the cost of having to wire on their own >> because the building owner did not actually own the existing cable plant >> and such. These projects were not just a simple math problem to solve. >> >> >> >> They naively thought every city was going to welcome them with open arms >> like Kansas City did. They believed the political hype the politicians >> told them to lure them to their cities, then when actual laws both of >> physics and real came in to play, the numbers looked a whole lot uglier. >> Underground building in established cities is a nightmare in both costs, >> regulations, logistics and amount of work required. Just simple things >> like trying to gather data on all the existing underground >> infrastructure (that has no central source of documentation) was painful >> and costly. You can�t get drawings approved without first showing you >> will not be interfering with existing utilities already underground. In >> many cases you have to manually locate this stuff and then map it and >> then do your design around that information. Other issues to overhead >> builds were poles that would not pass loading calculations, pole owners >> who were less than cooperative or that pulled out new loading rules that >> they themselves don�t follow and you can see where it was not a simple >> process. The employee count to deal with all of this on a large scale at >> the pace they wanted to move was not small by any stretch. >> >> >> >> This was not new news. They pulled the plug on all of this stuff back at >> the beginning of July. >> >> >> >> Thank You, >> >> Brian Webster >> >> www.wirelessmapping.com <http://www.wirelessmapping.com> >> >> www.Broadband-Mapping.com >> >> >> >> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett >> *Sent:* Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:32 AM >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more >> >> >> >> As they should. Don't build where people who can't pay or don't want >> your service. >> >> >> >> - >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+In >> telligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/ >> company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin. >> com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >> >> >> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg&g
Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
The way I read their change in direction is they are focusing now on high rise apartment and office buildings where they can beam bandwidth to the rooftop. No more gigabit to individual homes. Not a Vivint play. Maybe I'm wrong. As far as 250 people all expecting a gig, not sure what they are planning. Maybe they figure there's enough spectrum in millimeter wave to do whatever they need to do. Maybe creative marketing. Let's face it, most big ISPs now sell best effort speeds. Well, to residential. Businesses may still expect to actually get what they were promised and maybe even to actually use it. -Original Message- From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:32 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more But how about microwave to the home? That is what people expect when they hear Google is coming to town. GigE to the home. I think the MTU market may eventually struggle with getting enough BW via microwave as well. With an apartment building with 250 people all expecting a gig, hard to do with microwave. -Original Message- From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 10:27 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more Microwave to MTU/MDU rooftop. Proven business model. Ask Teligent, Winstar, Nextlink. In fairness, now almost 20 years later, there is more demand for what they are selling. But also more competition. And it's not like nobody is doing this already. Like in Chicago SilverIP comes to mind. -Original Message- From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:05 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more I predict the PhD syndrome is going to also affect the wireless end. Vivant tried and failed. 30 somethings that slept through physics are going to run up against the hard limits of trees, hills and rain. Doesn't matter how crazy the radio is, they will learn as everyone that tries RF distribution learns. 5 years they will be back to fiber. Or deciding not to be part of the transport solution. -Original Message- From: Robert Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:49 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more Phd syndrome... Getting an advanced degree at a big Uni gives you almost zero experience in the trenches... The move to wireless means that they can buy their way into the FCC and move down from there... On 10/27/16 6:40 AM, Brian Webster wrote: > I worked directly on the San Jose and Sand Diego projects. I was > brought in by one of the main contractors to help reduce costs and > increase efficiency. Google had way too many �30 somethings� who > failed to listen to experienced telecom professionals. That was one of > their biggest faults. It was insane to try and build a network in San > Jose that was going to have to be built mostly underground. That > market already had new AT&T U-verse fiber and Time Warner with a very > strong network. Heck I could get 100 meg speeds on Wi-Fi at the hotel > I stayed in. Their Ego to build in their own backyard was pushing the > build more than anything. > > > > The concept of cherry picking neighborhoods actually drove costs up. > When they wanted a citywide network design, that is what they were > delivered, but then try and build out only neighborhoods they wanted > while still trying to figure out how much of their backbones, huts and > neighborhood distribution system needed to be put in place to service > the piecemeal buildout approach, when you were already having to open > ditches, while having to be a mostly underground build? Yea that was a > nightmare too! Then let�s talk about how they had no clue how hard > the MDU market is to secure. They gave no real consideration to > existing deals in the buildings, or the cost of having to wire on > their own because the building owner did not actually own the existing > cable plant and such. These projects were not just a simple math > problem to solve. > > > > They naively thought every city was going to welcome them with open > arms like Kansas City did. They believed the political hype the > politicians told them to lure them to their cities, then when actual > laws both of physics and real came in to play, the numbers looked a > whole lot uglier. > Underground building in established cities is a nightmare in both > costs, regulations, logistics and amount of work required. Just simple > things like trying to gather data on all the existing underground > infrastructure (that has no central source of documentation) was > painful and costly. You can�t get drawings approved without first > showing you will not be interfering with existing utilities a
Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
"Up to" is the key wording... "Up to" On 10/27/2016 10:32 AM, Chuck McCown wrote: But how about microwave to the home? That is what people expect when they hear Google is coming to town. GigE to the home. I think the MTU market may eventually struggle with getting enough BW via microwave as well. With an apartment building with 250 people all expecting a gig, hard to do with microwave. -Original Message- From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 10:27 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more Microwave to MTU/MDU rooftop. Proven business model. Ask Teligent, Winstar, Nextlink. In fairness, now almost 20 years later, there is more demand for what they are selling. But also more competition. And it's not like nobody is doing this already. Like in Chicago SilverIP comes to mind. -Original Message- From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:05 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more I predict the PhD syndrome is going to also affect the wireless end. Vivant tried and failed. 30 somethings that slept through physics are going to run up against the hard limits of trees, hills and rain. Doesn't matter how crazy the radio is, they will learn as everyone that tries RF distribution learns. 5 years they will be back to fiber. Or deciding not to be part of the transport solution. -Original Message- From: Robert Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:49 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more Phd syndrome... Getting an advanced degree at a big Uni gives you almost zero experience in the trenches... The move to wireless means that they can buy their way into the FCC and move down from there... On 10/27/16 6:40 AM, Brian Webster wrote: I worked directly on the San Jose and Sand Diego projects. I was brought in by one of the main contractors to help reduce costs and increase efficiency. Google had way too many �30 somethings� who failed to listen to experienced telecom professionals. That was one of their biggest faults. It was insane to try and build a network in San Jose that was going to have to be built mostly underground. That market already had new AT&T U-verse fiber and Time Warner with a very strong network. Heck I could get 100 meg speeds on Wi-Fi at the hotel I stayed in. Their Ego to build in their own backyard was pushing the build more than anything. The concept of cherry picking neighborhoods actually drove costs up. When they wanted a citywide network design, that is what they were delivered, but then try and build out only neighborhoods they wanted while still trying to figure out how much of their backbones, huts and neighborhood distribution system needed to be put in place to service the piecemeal buildout approach, when you were already having to open ditches, while having to be a mostly underground build? Yea that was a nightmare too! Then let�s talk about how they had no clue how hard the MDU market is to secure. They gave no real consideration to existing deals in the buildings, or the cost of having to wire on their own because the building owner did not actually own the existing cable plant and such. These projects were not just a simple math problem to solve. They naively thought every city was going to welcome them with open arms like Kansas City did. They believed the political hype the politicians told them to lure them to their cities, then when actual laws both of physics and real came in to play, the numbers looked a whole lot uglier. Underground building in established cities is a nightmare in both costs, regulations, logistics and amount of work required. Just simple things like trying to gather data on all the existing underground infrastructure (that has no central source of documentation) was painful and costly. You can�t get drawings approved without first showing you will not be interfering with existing utilities already underground. In many cases you have to manually locate this stuff and then map it and then do your design around that information. Other issues to overhead builds were poles that would not pass loading calculations, pole owners who were less than cooperative or that pulled out new loading rules that they themselves don�t follow and you can see where it was not a simple process. The employee count to deal with all of this on a large scale at the pace they wanted to move was not small by any stretch. This was not new news. They pulled the plug on all of this stuff back at the beginning of July. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com <http://www.wirelessmapping.com> www.Broadband-Mapping.com *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett *Sent:* Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:32 AM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more As they should. D
Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
Low-hanging fruit, MDU's. Not the same as Vivint. Vivint went into the trenches. Rory -Original Message- From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 9:48 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more The way I read their change in direction is they are focusing now on high rise apartment and office buildings where they can beam bandwidth to the rooftop. No more gigabit to individual homes. Not a Vivint play. Maybe I'm wrong. As far as 250 people all expecting a gig, not sure what they are planning. Maybe they figure there's enough spectrum in millimeter wave to do whatever they need to do. Maybe creative marketing. Let's face it, most big ISPs now sell best effort speeds. Well, to residential. Businesses may still expect to actually get what they were promised and maybe even to actually use it. -Original Message- From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:32 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more But how about microwave to the home? That is what people expect when they hear Google is coming to town. GigE to the home. I think the MTU market may eventually struggle with getting enough BW via microwave as well. With an apartment building with 250 people all expecting a gig, hard to do with microwave. -Original Message- From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 10:27 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more Microwave to MTU/MDU rooftop. Proven business model. Ask Teligent, Winstar, Nextlink. In fairness, now almost 20 years later, there is more demand for what they are selling. But also more competition. And it's not like nobody is doing this already. Like in Chicago SilverIP comes to mind. -Original Message- From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:05 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more I predict the PhD syndrome is going to also affect the wireless end. Vivant tried and failed. 30 somethings that slept through physics are going to run up against the hard limits of trees, hills and rain. Doesn't matter how crazy the radio is, they will learn as everyone that tries RF distribution learns. 5 years they will be back to fiber. Or deciding not to be part of the transport solution. -Original Message- From: Robert Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:49 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more Phd syndrome... Getting an advanced degree at a big Uni gives you almost zero experience in the trenches... The move to wireless means that they can buy their way into the FCC and move down from there... On 10/27/16 6:40 AM, Brian Webster wrote: > I worked directly on the San Jose and Sand Diego projects. I was > brought in by one of the main contractors to help reduce costs and > increase efficiency. Google had way too many �30 somethings� who > failed to listen to experienced telecom professionals. That was one of > their biggest faults. It was insane to try and build a network in San > Jose that was going to have to be built mostly underground. That > market already had new AT&T U-verse fiber and Time Warner with a very > strong network. Heck I could get 100 meg speeds on Wi-Fi at the hotel > I stayed in. Their Ego to build in their own backyard was pushing the > build more than anything. > > > > The concept of cherry picking neighborhoods actually drove costs up. > When they wanted a citywide network design, that is what they were > delivered, but then try and build out only neighborhoods they wanted > while still trying to figure out how much of their backbones, huts and > neighborhood distribution system needed to be put in place to service > the piecemeal buildout approach, when you were already having to open > ditches, while having to be a mostly underground build? Yea that was a > nightmare too! Then let�s talk about how they had no clue how hard > the MDU market is to secure. They gave no real consideration to > existing deals in the buildings, or the cost of having to wire on > their own because the building owner did not actually own the existing > cable plant and such. These projects were not just a simple math > problem to solve. > > > > They naively thought every city was going to welcome them with open > arms like Kansas City did. They believed the political hype the > politicians told them to lure them to their cities, then when actual > laws both of physics and real came in to play, the numbers looked a > whole lot uglier. > Underground building in established cities is a nightmare in both > costs, regulations, logistics and amount of wo
Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
So splain me this. If the google is interested in 3.5GHz, and they're also going to run one of the SAS's... is that not a conflict of interest? I mean I'd hate to go all Trumpian about it, but they could very easily rig the system.
Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
Google get's the gear but Alphabet controls one of the SAS Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 1:05 PM, George Skorup wrote: > So splain me this. If the google is interested in 3.5GHz, and they're also > going to run one of the SAS's... is that not a conflict of interest? I mean > I'd hate to go all Trumpian about it, but they could very easily rig the > system. >
Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
Webpass? that¹s the reason they bought it! Proven business model operating in top cities On 10/27/16, 12:27 PM, "Af on behalf of Ken Hohhof" wrote: >Microwave to MTU/MDU rooftop. Proven business model. Ask Teligent, >Winstar, Nextlink. In fairness, now almost 20 years later, there is more >demand for what they are selling. But also more competition. > >And it's not like nobody is doing this already. Like in Chicago SilverIP >comes to mind. > > >-Original Message- >From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown >Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:05 AM >To: af@afmug.com >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more > >I predict the PhD syndrome is going to also affect the wireless end. >Vivant >tried and failed. > >30 somethings that slept through physics are going to run up against the >hard limits of trees, hills and rain. > >Doesn't matter how crazy the radio is, they will learn as everyone that >tries RF distribution learns. > >5 years they will be back to fiber. Or deciding not to be part of the >transport solution. > >-Original Message- >From: Robert >Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:49 AM >To: af@afmug.com >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more > >Phd syndrome... Getting an advanced degree at a big Uni gives you >almost zero experience in the trenches... The move to wireless means >that they can buy their way into the FCC and move down from there... > >On 10/27/16 6:40 AM, Brian Webster wrote: >> I worked directly on the San Jose and Sand Diego projects. I was >> brought in by one of the main contractors to help reduce costs and >> increase efficiency. Google had way too many ï¿1Ž230 somethingsï¿1Ž2 who >> failed to listen to experienced telecom professionals. That was one of >> their biggest faults. It was insane to try and build a network in San >> Jose that was going to have to be built mostly underground. That >> market already had new AT&T U-verse fiber and Time Warner with a very >> strong network. Heck I could get 100 meg speeds on Wi-Fi at the hotel >> I stayed in. Their Ego to build in their own backyard was pushing the >> build more than anything. >> >> >> >> The concept of cherry picking neighborhoods actually drove costs up. >> When they wanted a citywide network design, that is what they were >> delivered, but then try and build out only neighborhoods they wanted >> while still trying to figure out how much of their backbones, huts and >> neighborhood distribution system needed to be put in place to service >> the piecemeal buildout approach, when you were already having to open >> ditches, while having to be a mostly underground build? Yea that was a >> nightmare too! Then letï¿1Ž2s talk about how they had no clue how hard >> the MDU market is to secure. They gave no real consideration to >> existing deals in the buildings, or the cost of having to wire on >> their own because the building owner did not actually own the existing >> cable plant and such. These projects were not just a simple math problem >to solve. >> >> >> >> They naively thought every city was going to welcome them with open >> arms like Kansas City did. They believed the political hype the >> politicians told them to lure them to their cities, then when actual >> laws both of physics and real came in to play, the numbers looked a >>whole >lot uglier. >> Underground building in established cities is a nightmare in both >> costs, regulations, logistics and amount of work required. Just simple >> things like trying to gather data on all the existing underground >> infrastructure (that has no central source of documentation) was >> painful and costly. You canï¿1Ž2t get drawings approved without first >> showing you will not be interfering with existing utilities already >> underground. In many cases you have to manually locate this stuff and >> then map it and then do your design around that information. Other >> issues to overhead builds were poles that would not pass loading >> calculations, pole owners who were less than cooperative or that >> pulled out new loading rules that they themselves donï¿1Ž2t follow and >> you can see where it was not a simple process. The employee count to >> deal with all of this on a large scale at the pace they wanted to move >>was >not small by any stretch. >> >> >> >> This was not new news. They pulled the plug on all of this stuff back >> at the beginning of July. >> >> >> >> Thank You, >> >> Brian Webster >> >> www.wirelessmapp
Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
Ken, we have been doing MDUs in PR and FL for about 18 months now. WE are using AF24 units to each bldg in a ring format with no more of 10 blds in the ring. Endpoints are fiber pops. WE sell up to 500 Mbps, usage is in resitential ins avg 25-30 mbs, we only see 500 mbps whrn they go to the speed tests sites. On 10/27/16, 12:47 PM, "Af on behalf of Ken Hohhof" wrote: >The way I read their change in direction is they are focusing now on high >rise apartment and office buildings where they can beam bandwidth to the >rooftop. No more gigabit to individual homes. Not a Vivint play. Maybe >I'm wrong. > >As far as 250 people all expecting a gig, not sure what they are planning. >Maybe they figure there's enough spectrum in millimeter wave to do >whatever >they need to do. Maybe creative marketing. Let's face it, most big ISPs >now sell best effort speeds. Well, to residential. Businesses may still >expect to actually get what they were promised and maybe even to actually >use it. > >-Original Message- >From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown >Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:32 AM >To: af@afmug.com >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more > >But how about microwave to the home? That is what people expect when they >hear Google is coming to town. GigE to the home. I think the MTU market >may eventually struggle with getting enough BW via microwave as well. >With >an apartment building with 250 people all expecting a gig, hard to do with >microwave. > >-Original Message- >From: Ken Hohhof >Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 10:27 AM >To: af@afmug.com >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more > >Microwave to MTU/MDU rooftop. Proven business model. Ask Teligent, >Winstar, Nextlink. In fairness, now almost 20 years later, there is more >demand for what they are selling. But also more competition. > >And it's not like nobody is doing this already. Like in Chicago SilverIP >comes to mind. > > >-Original Message----- >From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown >Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:05 AM >To: af@afmug.com >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more > >I predict the PhD syndrome is going to also affect the wireless end. >Vivant >tried and failed. > >30 somethings that slept through physics are going to run up against the >hard limits of trees, hills and rain. > >Doesn't matter how crazy the radio is, they will learn as everyone that >tries RF distribution learns. > >5 years they will be back to fiber. Or deciding not to be part of the >transport solution. > >-Original Message- >From: Robert >Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:49 AM >To: af@afmug.com >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more > >Phd syndrome... Getting an advanced degree at a big Uni gives you >almost zero experience in the trenches... The move to wireless means >that they can buy their way into the FCC and move down from there... > >On 10/27/16 6:40 AM, Brian Webster wrote: >> I worked directly on the San Jose and Sand Diego projects. I was >> brought in by one of the main contractors to help reduce costs and >> increase efficiency. Google had way too many ï¿1Ž230 somethingsï¿1Ž2 who >> failed to listen to experienced telecom professionals. That was one of >> their biggest faults. It was insane to try and build a network in San >> Jose that was going to have to be built mostly underground. That >> market already had new AT&T U-verse fiber and Time Warner with a very >> strong network. Heck I could get 100 meg speeds on Wi-Fi at the hotel >> I stayed in. Their Ego to build in their own backyard was pushing the >> build more than anything. >> >> >> >> The concept of cherry picking neighborhoods actually drove costs up. >> When they wanted a citywide network design, that is what they were >> delivered, but then try and build out only neighborhoods they wanted >> while still trying to figure out how much of their backbones, huts and >> neighborhood distribution system needed to be put in place to service >> the piecemeal buildout approach, when you were already having to open >> ditches, while having to be a mostly underground build? Yea that was a >> nightmare too! Then letï¿1Ž2s talk about how they had no clue how hard >> the MDU market is to secure. They gave no real consideration to >> existing deals in the buildings, or the cost of having to wire on >> their own because the building owner did not actually own the existing >> cable plant and such. These projects were not just a simple math >> problem >to solve. >> >>
Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
Yes, but isn’t Webpass new enough at the wireless-to-a-building thing that they haven’t really tested what happens when adoption goes over the first handful of customers within the building? Also, it looks like they sell 100M, 200M, 500M and 1G service, and define speed as upload+download on a symmetric service, so 1G would actually be 500M symmetric? I’m also a bit confused about their pricing, they list $60/mo, and then the different speeds, so is that the price for the lowest speed? Seems like some creative marketing is involved. From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 12:25 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more Webpass? that¹s the reason they bought it! Proven business model operating in top cities On 10/27/16, 12:27 PM, "Af on behalf of Ken Hohhof" mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote: >Microwave to MTU/MDU rooftop. Proven business model. Ask Teligent, >Winstar, Nextlink. In fairness, now almost 20 years later, there is more >demand for what they are selling. But also more competition. > >And it's not like nobody is doing this already. Like in Chicago SilverIP >comes to mind. > > >-Original Message- >From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown >Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:05 AM >To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more > >I predict the PhD syndrome is going to also affect the wireless end. >Vivant >tried and failed. > >30 somethings that slept through physics are going to run up against the >hard limits of trees, hills and rain. > >Doesn't matter how crazy the radio is, they will learn as everyone that >tries RF distribution learns. > >5 years they will be back to fiber. Or deciding not to be part of the >transport solution. > >-Original Message----- >From: Robert >Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:49 AM >To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more > >Phd syndrome... Getting an advanced degree at a big Uni gives you >almost zero experience in the trenches... The move to wireless means >that they can buy their way into the FCC and move down from there... > >On 10/27/16 6:40 AM, Brian Webster wrote: >> I worked directly on the San Jose and Sand Diego projects. I was >> brought in by one of the main contractors to help reduce costs and >> increase efficiency. Google had way too many ï¿1Ž230 somethingsï¿1Ž2 who >> failed to listen to experienced telecom professionals. That was one of >> their biggest faults. It was insane to try and build a network in San >> Jose that was going to have to be built mostly underground. That >> market already had new AT&T U-verse fiber and Time Warner with a very >> strong network. Heck I could get 100 meg speeds on Wi-Fi at the hotel >> I stayed in. Their Ego to build in their own backyard was pushing the >> build more than anything. >> >> >> >> The concept of cherry picking neighborhoods actually drove costs up. >> When they wanted a citywide network design, that is what they were >> delivered, but then try and build out only neighborhoods they wanted >> while still trying to figure out how much of their backbones, huts and >> neighborhood distribution system needed to be put in place to service >> the piecemeal buildout approach, when you were already having to open >> ditches, while having to be a mostly underground build? Yea that was a >> nightmare too! Then letï¿1Ž2s talk about how they had no clue how hard >> the MDU market is to secure. They gave no real consideration to >> existing deals in the buildings, or the cost of having to wire on >> their own because the building owner did not actually own the existing >> cable plant and such. These projects were not just a simple math problem >to solve. >> >> >> >> They naively thought every city was going to welcome them with open >> arms like Kansas City did. They believed the political hype the >> politicians told them to lure them to their cities, then when actual >> laws both of physics and real came in to play, the numbers looked a >>whole >lot uglier. >> Underground building in established cities is a nightmare in both >> costs, regulations, logistics and amount of work required. Just simple >> things like trying to gather data on all the existing underground >> infrastructure (that has no central source of documentation) was >> painful and costly. You canï¿1Ž2t get drawings approved without first >> showing you will not be interfering with existing utilities already >> u
Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
They offer $60 symetric best effort, some bldgs is up to 500 mbps or up to 1 Gig depending on the backhaul they have in place From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on behalf of Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" mailto:af@afmug.com>> Date: Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 1:37 PM To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" mailto:af@afmug.com>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more Yes, but isn’t Webpass new enough at the wireless-to-a-building thing that they haven’t really tested what happens when adoption goes over the first handful of customers within the building? Also, it looks like they sell 100M, 200M, 500M and 1G service, and define speed as upload+download on a symmetric service, so 1G would actually be 500M symmetric? I’m also a bit confused about their pricing, they list $60/mo, and then the different speeds, so is that the price for the lowest speed? Seems like some creative marketing is involved. From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 12:25 PM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more Webpass? that¹s the reason they bought it! Proven business model operating in top cities On 10/27/16, 12:27 PM, "Af on behalf of Ken Hohhof" mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com> Gino Villarini President Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 [cid:image001.png@01D2304E.DE173190] on behalf of af...@kwisp.com<mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote: >Microwave to MTU/MDU rooftop. Proven business model. Ask Teligent, >Winstar, Nextlink. In fairness, now almost 20 years later, there is more >demand for what they are selling. But also more competition. > >And it's not like nobody is doing this already. Like in Chicago SilverIP >comes to mind. > > Gino Villarini President Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 [cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png] >-Original Message- >From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown >Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:05 AM >To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more > >I predict the PhD syndrome is going to also affect the wireless end. >Vivant >tried and failed. > >30 somethings that slept through physics are going to run up against the >hard limits of trees, hills and rain. > >Doesn't matter how crazy the radio is, they will learn as everyone that >tries RF distribution learns. > >5 years they will be back to fiber. Or deciding not to be part of the >transport solution. > >-Original Message- >From: Robert >Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:49 AM >To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more > >Phd syndrome... Getting an advanced degree at a big Uni gives you >almost zero experience in the trenches... The move to wireless means >that they can buy their way into the FCC and move down from there... > >On 10/27/16 6:40 AM, Brian Webster wrote: >> I worked directly on the San Jose and Sand Diego projects. I was >> brought in by one of the main contractors to help reduce costs and >> increase efficiency. Google had way too many ï¿1Ž230 somethingsï¿1Ž2 who >> failed to listen to experienced telecom professionals. That was one of >> their biggest faults. It was insane to try and build a network in San >> Jose that was going to have to be built mostly underground. That >> market already had new AT&T U-verse fiber and Time Warner with a very >> strong network. Heck I could get 100 meg speeds on Wi-Fi at the hotel >> I stayed in. Their Ego to build in their own backyard was pushing the >> build more than anything. >> >> >> >> The concept of cherry picking neighborhoods actually drove costs up. >> When they wanted a citywide network design, that is what they were >> delivered, but then try and build out only neighborhoods they wanted >> while still trying to figure out how much of their backbones, huts and >> neighborhood distribution system needed to be put in place to service >> the piecemeal buildout approach, when you were already having to open >> ditches, while having to be a mostly underground build? Yea that was a >> nightmare too! Then letï¿1Ž2s talk about how they had no clue how hard >> the MDU market is to secure. They gave no real consideration to >> existing deals in the buildings, or the cost of having to wire on >> their own because the building owner did not actually own the existing >> cable plant and such. These projects were not just a simple math proble
Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
On 10/27/16 10:37, Ken Hohhof wrote: Yes, but isn’t Webpass new enough at the wireless-to-a-building thing that they haven’t really tested what happens when adoption goes over the first handful of customers within the building? Webpass has been doing the building MDU thing via microwave for at least a decade before Google came along and bought them. Maximum speed depended on the backhaul to the building you were in and what everyone else was doing at the moment in your building. ~Seth
Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
What are you using for customer control and rate limiting? I know Netonix works well for smaller deployments. What ring protocol are you using? From: Gino Villarini Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:27 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more Ken, we have been doing MDUs in PR and FL for about 18 months now. WE are using AF24 units to each bldg in a ring format with no more of 10 blds in the ring. Endpoints are fiber pops. WE sell up to 500 Mbps, usage is in resitential ins avg 25-30 mbs, we only see 500 mbps whrn they go to the speed tests sites. On 10/27/16, 12:47 PM, "Af on behalf of Ken Hohhof" wrote: >The way I read their change in direction is they are focusing now on high >rise apartment and office buildings where they can beam bandwidth to the >rooftop. No more gigabit to individual homes. Not a Vivint play. Maybe >I'm wrong. > >As far as 250 people all expecting a gig, not sure what they are planning. >Maybe they figure there's enough spectrum in millimeter wave to do >whatever >they need to do. Maybe creative marketing. Let's face it, most big ISPs >now sell best effort speeds. Well, to residential. Businesses may still >expect to actually get what they were promised and maybe even to actually >use it. > >-Original Message- >From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown >Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:32 AM >To: af@afmug.com >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more > >But how about microwave to the home? That is what people expect when they >hear Google is coming to town. GigE to the home. I think the MTU market >may eventually struggle with getting enough BW via microwave as well. >With >an apartment building with 250 people all expecting a gig, hard to do with >microwave. > >-Original Message- >From: Ken Hohhof >Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 10:27 AM >To: af@afmug.com >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more > >Microwave to MTU/MDU rooftop. Proven business model. Ask Teligent, >Winstar, Nextlink. In fairness, now almost 20 years later, there is more >demand for what they are selling. But also more competition. > >And it's not like nobody is doing this already. Like in Chicago SilverIP >comes to mind. > > >-Original Message----- >From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown >Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:05 AM >To: af@afmug.com >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more > >I predict the PhD syndrome is going to also affect the wireless end. >Vivant >tried and failed. > >30 somethings that slept through physics are going to run up against the >hard limits of trees, hills and rain. > >Doesn't matter how crazy the radio is, they will learn as everyone that >tries RF distribution learns. > >5 years they will be back to fiber. Or deciding not to be part of the >transport solution. > >-Original Message- >From: Robert >Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:49 AM >To: af@afmug.com >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more > >Phd syndrome... Getting an advanced degree at a big Uni gives you >almost zero experience in the trenches... The move to wireless means >that they can buy their way into the FCC and move down from there... > >On 10/27/16 6:40 AM, Brian Webster wrote: >> I worked directly on the San Jose and Sand Diego projects. I was >> brought in by one of the main contractors to help reduce costs and >> increase efficiency. Google had way too many ï¿1Ž230 somethingsï¿1Ž2 who >> failed to listen to experienced telecom professionals. That was one of >> their biggest faults. It was insane to try and build a network in San >> Jose that was going to have to be built mostly underground. That >> market already had new AT&T U-verse fiber and Time Warner with a very >> strong network. Heck I could get 100 meg speeds on Wi-Fi at the hotel >> I stayed in. Their Ego to build in their own backyard was pushing the >> build more than anything. >> >> >> >> The concept of cherry picking neighborhoods actually drove costs up. >> When they wanted a citywide network design, that is what they were >> delivered, but then try and build out only neighborhoods they wanted >> while still trying to figure out how much of their backbones, huts and >> neighborhood distribution system needed to be put in place to service >> the piecemeal buildout approach, when you were already having to open >> ditches, while having to be a mostly underground build? Yea that was a >> nightmare too! Then letï¿1Ž2s talk about how they had no clue how hard >> the MDU market is to secure. They gave no real consideration t
Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
We rate limit at the procera. For ring we are using mstp, (small L2 rings, each mdu has a vlan that gets encasulated into a vpls once it hits the fiber node) From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on behalf of Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" mailto:af@afmug.com>> Date: Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 2:28 PM To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" mailto:af@afmug.com>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more Gino Villarini President Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 [cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png] What are you using for customer control and rate limiting? I know Netonix works well for smaller deployments. What ring protocol are you using? From: Gino Villarini Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:27 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more Ken, we have been doing MDUs in PR and FL for about 18 months now. WE are using AF24 units to each bldg in a ring format with no more of 10 blds in the ring. Endpoints are fiber pops. WE sell up to 500 Mbps, usage is in resitential ins avg 25-30 mbs, we only see 500 mbps whrn they go to the speed tests sites. On 10/27/16, 12:47 PM, "Af on behalf of Ken Hohhof" mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com> Gino Villarini President Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 [cid:5CE2F7495C9B4D14AF40F62A14FB4FD0@ChuckMcCownPC] on behalf of af...@kwisp.com<mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote: >The way I read their change in direction is they are focusing now on high >rise apartment and office buildings where they can beam bandwidth to the >rooftop. No more gigabit to individual homes. Not a Vivint play. Maybe >I'm wrong. > >As far as 250 people all expecting a gig, not sure what they are planning. >Maybe they figure there's enough spectrum in millimeter wave to do >whatever >they need to do. Maybe creative marketing. Let's face it, most big ISPs >now sell best effort speeds. Well, to residential. Businesses may still >expect to actually get what they were promised and maybe even to actually >use it. > >-Original Message- >From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown >Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:32 AM >To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more > >But how about microwave to the home? That is what people expect when they >hear Google is coming to town. GigE to the home. I think the MTU market >may eventually struggle with getting enough BW via microwave as well. >With >an apartment building with 250 people all expecting a gig, hard to do with >microwave. > >-Original Message- >From: Ken Hohhof >Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 10:27 AM >To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more > >Microwave to MTU/MDU rooftop. Proven business model. Ask Teligent, >Winstar, Nextlink. In fairness, now almost 20 years later, there is more >demand for what they are selling. But also more competition. > >And it's not like nobody is doing this already. Like in Chicago SilverIP >comes to mind. > > >-Original Message- >From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown >Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:05 AM >To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more > >I predict the PhD syndrome is going to also affect the wireless end. >Vivant >tried and failed. > >30 somethings that slept through physics are going to run up against the >hard limits of trees, hills and rain. > >Doesn't matter how crazy the radio is, they will learn as everyone that >tries RF distribution learns. > >5 years they will be back to fiber. Or deciding not to be part of the >transport solution. > >-Original Message- >From: Robert >Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:49 AM >To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more > >Phd syndrome... Getting an advanced degree at a big Uni gives you >almost zero experience in the trenches... The move to wireless means >that they can buy their way into the FCC and move down from there... > >On 10/27/16 6:40 AM, Brian Webster wrote: >> I worked directly on the San Jose and Sand Diego projects. I was >> brought in by one of the main contractors to help reduce costs and >> increase efficiency. Google had way too many ï¿1Ž230 somethingsï¿1Ž2 who >> failed to listen to experienced telecom professionals. That was one of >> their biggest faults. It was insane to try and build a network in San >> Jose that was going to have to be built mo
Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
That sounds like when I started in wireless 13 years ago with 2 bonded T1 lines to the tower and sold 3 Mbps service. Worked until Netflix and Youtube came along. -Original Message- From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 1:25 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more On 10/27/16 10:37, Ken Hohhof wrote: > Yes, but isn’t Webpass new enough at the wireless-to-a-building thing > that they haven’t really tested what happens when adoption goes over > the first handful of customers within the building? Webpass has been doing the building MDU thing via microwave for at least a decade before Google came along and bought them. Maximum speed depended on the backhaul to the building you were in and what everyone else was doing at the moment in your building. ~Seth
Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
I think one of our neighbors was selling 10 meg service with only 12 megs worth of T1 lines. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Ken Hohhof" To: af@afmug.com Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 6:48:45 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more That sounds like when I started in wireless 13 years ago with 2 bonded T1 lines to the tower and sold 3 Mbps service. Worked until Netflix and Youtube came along. -Original Message- From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 1:25 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more On 10/27/16 10:37, Ken Hohhof wrote: > Yes, but isn’t Webpass new enough at the wireless-to-a-building thing > that they haven’t really tested what happens when adoption goes over > the first handful of customers within the building? Webpass has been doing the building MDU thing via microwave for at least a decade before Google came along and bought them. Maximum speed depended on the backhaul to the building you were in and what everyone else was doing at the moment in your building. ~Seth
Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
We have some wireless sites in "rural alabama" using ospf rings. The middle, occasionally, gets the short straw and we've had to make sure there is enough bandwidth across the ring to make sure the middle doesn't suffer a speed loss. Is there enough bandwidth on your ring to prevent this problem? - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini To: af@afmug.com Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 12:27 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more Ken, we have been doing MDUs in PR and FL for about 18 months now. WE are using AF24 units to each bldg in a ring format with no more of 10 blds in the ring. Endpoints are fiber pops. WE sell up to 500 Mbps, usage is in resitential ins avg 25-30 mbs, we only see 500 mbps whrn they go to the speed tests sites. On 10/27/16, 12:47 PM, "Af on behalf of Ken Hohhof" wrote: >The way I read their change in direction is they are focusing now on high >rise apartment and office buildings where they can beam bandwidth to the >rooftop. No more gigabit to individual homes. Not a Vivint play. Maybe >I'm wrong. > >As far as 250 people all expecting a gig, not sure what they are planning. >Maybe they figure there's enough spectrum in millimeter wave to do >whatever >they need to do. Maybe creative marketing. Let's face it, most big ISPs >now sell best effort speeds. Well, to residential. Businesses may still >expect to actually get what they were promised and maybe even to actually >use it. > >-Original Message- >From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown >Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:32 AM >To: af@afmug.com >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more > >But how about microwave to the home? That is what people expect when they >hear Google is coming to town. GigE to the home. I think the MTU market >may eventually struggle with getting enough BW via microwave as well. >With >an apartment building with 250 people all expecting a gig, hard to do with >microwave. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ken Hohhof >Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 10:27 AM >To: af@afmug.com >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more > >Microwave to MTU/MDU rooftop. Proven business model. Ask Teligent, >Winstar, Nextlink. In fairness, now almost 20 years later, there is more >demand for what they are selling. But also more competition. > >And it's not like nobody is doing this already. Like in Chicago SilverIP >comes to mind. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown >Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:05 AM >To: af@afmug.com >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more > >I predict the PhD syndrome is going to also affect the wireless end. >Vivant >tried and failed. > >30 somethings that slept through physics are going to run up against the >hard limits of trees, hills and rain. > >Doesn't matter how crazy the radio is, they will learn as everyone that >tries RF distribution learns. > >5 years they will be back to fiber. Or deciding not to be part of the >transport solution. > >-Original Message- >From: Robert >Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 7:49 AM >To: af@afmug.com >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more > >Phd syndrome... Getting an advanced degree at a big Uni gives you >almost zero experience in the trenches... The move to wireless means >that they can buy their way into the FCC and move down from there... > >On 10/27/16 6:40 AM, Brian Webster wrote: >> I worked directly on the San Jose and Sand Diego projects. I was >> brought in by one of the main contractors to help reduce costs and >> increase efficiency. Google had way too many ï¿1Ž230 somethingsï¿1Ž2 who >> failed to listen to experienced telecom professionals. That was one of >> their biggest faults. It was insane to try and build a network in San >> Jose that was going to have to be built mostly underground. That >> market already had new AT&T U-verse fiber and Time Warner with a very >> strong network. Heck I could get 100 meg speeds on Wi-Fi at the hotel >> I stayed in. Their Ego to build in their own backyard was pushing the >> build more than anything. >> >> >> >> The concept of cherry picking neighborhoods actually drove costs up. >> When they wanted a citywide network design, that is what they were >> delivered, but then try and build out only neighborhoods they wanted >> while still trying to figure out how much of their ba