Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[Paul Stewart]

I believe the issue is that the picture may not represent the actual IX in 
question (or MMR of the building where the IX is located might be more 
accurate).  Basically, and pardon me possibly putting words in some people’s 
mouthes here, when a group of people put a lot of work into something and then 
a picture of that work is used elsewhere to possibly resemble where a potential 
employee would work then it’s just misleading and could be considered offensive 
to the people who did all the work originally ….. make sense?

You’ll notice my choice of words here because I’m making assumptions about why 
the folks involved are upset and try to put myself in their shoes, at which 
point, if I have all my facts straight, I would be quite upset as well because 
it would look like someone else is taking complete credit for someone else’s 
work …. In the world of IX’s (something I do know a lot about) there is often 
people who don’t get pay checks as they volunteer however they get the rewards 
to contributing towards a great thing for the community … if you haven’t been 
involved at that level you may not understand anything I’m suggesting here ….

Paul


> On Aug 5, 2017, at 8:42 PM, Mitch Koep  wrote:
> 
> Question??
> 
> Eric
> 
> Why are you so upset?
> 
> Did you have a bad dealing with someone and this is get back at them time?
> 
> I agree with Faisal it's a picture
> 
> Mitch
> On 8/5/2017 11:29 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
>> Share with you a related story
>> 
>> I was in a Conf. room of one of our Colo Facilities Providers, they had some 
>> pictures on their Conf. Room wall, which all were nice.. but there was one 
>> picture that caught eye and appeared to be very familiar.. it was a picture 
>> of cluster of antennas mounted on the roof of that facility...
>> 
>> Upon a closer look, I recognized that that cluster was our antennas ! ... so 
>> instantly two emotions came to mind... one was .. Hey that is a nice picture 
>> ! I know to whom that stuff belongs to !... and the second... How dare you 
>> take pictures of my equipment and hang it your conf. room (we don't buy roof 
>> access from them)  !...
>> 
>> To me personally, the former feeling overcame the latter reaction... and I 
>> actually felt proud of our little Cluster that someone viewed presentable 
>> enough to put in their conf. room.
>> 
>> Having said that.. if you are not the copyright owner of the photo.. then 
>> why does it bother you at all ? Hopefully you should feel proud that picture 
>> of an actual facility you know is being liked by others and being promoted 
>> on the net... 
>> 
>> and that is IMHO !
>> 
>> Of course everyone is entitled to their opinions and your mileage may vary !.
>> 
>> :)
>> 
>> Faisal Imtiaz
>> Snappy Internet & Telecom
>> 7266 SW 48 Street
>> Miami, FL 33155
>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
>> 
>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 
>> 
>> 
>> From: "Eric Kuhnke"  
>> To: af@afmug.com 
>> Sent: Friday, August 4, 2017 7:38:33 PM
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX
>> I am not the copyright owner of the photo in question. This is only a 
>> request. 
>> Please stop using the photo of the Westin Building 1901 fiber meet-me room 
>> to advertise the Missouri IX. 
>> 
>> Property owners and ISPs in the Pacific Northwest have spent a great deal of 
>> time, money and effort building traffic exchange infrastructure.
>> 
>> In my opinion is not an accurate or factual depiction of whatever facilities 
>> may currently exist in Missouri to use a photograph from a carrier hotel in 
>> downtown Seattle.
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[Chuck McCown]

Marketing – always a question of how far do you stretch the truth.
How many products have been announced with an artists conception or rendering 
of the product as they hope it to be...

Our community is just particularly sensitive due to the fact the almost all of 
us have run lotsa CAT5 and fiber in equipment rooms.  
I liked Forrest’s analogy of hotels.  

We all own hotels, and someone puts up a photo showing they have a very nice 
pool, but we know the pool is not in at their hotel yet.  So some of us point 
that out.

Real estate developers always have artists renderings that they use to 
pre-sell.  An IX could be thought of as a multi tenant dwelling.  OK, so they 
plan on putting dishwashers in all the units, just not done yet.  

From: Paul Stewart 
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2017 5:56 AM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

I believe the issue is that the picture may not represent the actual IX in 
question (or MMR of the building where the IX is located might be more 
accurate).  Basically, and pardon me possibly putting words in some people’s 
mouthes here, when a group of people put a lot of work into something and then 
a picture of that work is used elsewhere to possibly resemble where a potential 
employee would work then it’s just misleading and could be considered offensive 
to the people who did all the work originally ….. make sense? 

You’ll notice my choice of words here because I’m making assumptions about why 
the folks involved are upset and try to put myself in their shoes, at which 
point, if I have all my facts straight, I would be quite upset as well because 
it would look like someone else is taking complete credit for someone else’s 
work …. In the world of IX’s (something I do know a lot about) there is often 
people who don’t get pay checks as they volunteer however they get the rewards 
to contributing towards a great thing for the community … if you haven’t been 
involved at that level you may not understand anything I’m suggesting here ….

Paul


  On Aug 5, 2017, at 8:42 PM, Mitch Koep  wrote:

  Question??

  Eric

  Why are you so upset?

  Did you have a bad dealing with someone and this is get back at them time?

  I agree with Faisal it's a picture

  Mitch

  On 8/5/2017 11:29 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:

Share with you a related story

I was in a Conf. room of one of our Colo Facilities Providers, they had 
some pictures on their Conf. Room wall, which all were nice.. but there was one 
picture that caught eye and appeared to be very familiar.. it was a picture of 
cluster of antennas mounted on the roof of that facility...

Upon a closer look, I recognized that that cluster was our antennas ! ... 
so instantly two emotions came to mind... one was .. Hey that is a nice picture 
! I know to whom that stuff belongs to !... and the second... How dare you take 
pictures of my equipment and hang it your conf. room (we don't buy roof access 
from them)  !...

To me personally, the former feeling overcame the latter reaction... and I 
actually felt proud of our little Cluster that someone viewed presentable 
enough to put in their conf. room.

Having said that.. if you are not the copyright owner of the photo.. then 
why does it bother you at all ? Hopefully you should feel proud that picture of 
an actual facility you know is being liked by others and being promoted on the 
net... 

and that is IMHO !

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinions and your mileage may vary 
!.

:)

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net




  From: "Eric Kuhnke" mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Friday, August 4, 2017 7:38:33 PM
  Subject: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

  I am not the copyright owner of the photo in question. This is only a 
request. 

  Please stop using the photo of the Westin Building 1901 fiber meet-me 
room to advertise the Missouri IX. 

  Property owners and ISPs in the Pacific Northwest have spent a great deal 
of time, money and effort building traffic exchange infrastructure.

  In my opinion is not an accurate or factual depiction of whatever 
facilities may currently exist in Missouri to use a photograph from a carrier 
hotel in downtown Seattle.

  

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[Matt Hoppes]

Would it be wrong for me to put towers from another WISP on my website?

Seems like you should sell your own dog food. 

> On Aug 6, 2017, at 10:08 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> 
> Marketing – always a question of how far do you stretch the truth.
> How many products have been announced with an artists conception or rendering 
> of the product as they hope it to be...
>  
> Our community is just particularly sensitive due to the fact the almost all 
> of us have run lotsa CAT5 and fiber in equipment rooms. 
> I liked Forrest’s analogy of hotels. 
>  
> We all own hotels, and someone puts up a photo showing they have a very nice 
> pool, but we know the pool is not in at their hotel yet.  So some of us point 
> that out.
>  
> Real estate developers always have artists renderings that they use to 
> pre-sell.  An IX could be thought of as a multi tenant dwelling.  OK, so they 
> plan on putting dishwashers in all the units, just not done yet. 
>  
> From: Paul Stewart
> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2017 5:56 AM
> To: Animal Farm
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX
>  
> I believe the issue is that the picture may not represent the actual IX in 
> question (or MMR of the building where the IX is located might be more 
> accurate).  Basically, and pardon me possibly putting words in some people’s 
> mouthes here, when a group of people put a lot of work into something and 
> then a picture of that work is used elsewhere to possibly resemble where a 
> potential employee would work then it’s just misleading and could be 
> considered offensive to the people who did all the work originally ….. make 
> sense?
>  
> You’ll notice my choice of words here because I’m making assumptions about  
> why the folks involved are upset and try to put myself in their shoes, at 
> which point, if I have all my facts straight, I would be quite upset as well 
> because it would look like someone else is taking complete credit for someone 
> else’s work …. In the world of IX’s (something I do know a lot about) there 
> is often people who don’t get pay checks as they volunteer however they get 
> the rewards to contributing towards a great thing for the community … if you 
> haven’t been involved at that level you may not understand anything I’m 
> suggesting here ….
>  
> Paul
>  
>  
>> On Aug 5, 2017, at 8:42 PM, Mitch Koep  wrote:
>>  
>> Question??
>> 
>> Eric
>> 
>> Why are you so upset?
>> 
>> Did you have a bad dealing with someone and this is get back at them time?
>> 
>> I agree with Faisal it's a picture
>> 
>> Mitch
>>> On 8/5/2017 11:29 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
>>> Share with you a related story
>>>  
>>> I was in a Conf. room of one of our Colo Facilities Providers, they had 
>>> some pictures on their Conf. Room wall, which all were nice.. but there was 
>>> one picture that caught eye and appeared to be very familiar.. it was a 
>>> picture of cluster of antennas mounted on the roof of that facility...
>>>  
>>> Upon a closer look, I recognized that that cluster was our antennas ! ... 
>>> so instantly two emotions came to mind... one was .. Hey that is a nice 
>>> picture ! I know to whom that stuff belongs to !... and the second... How 
>>> dare you take pictures of my equipment and hang it your conf. room (we 
>>> don't buy roof access from them)  !...
>>>  
>>> To me personally, the former feeling overcame the latter reaction... and I 
>>> actually felt proud of our little Cluster that someone viewed presentable 
>>> enough to put in their conf. room.
>>>  
>>> Having said that.. if you are not the copyright owner of the photo.. then 
>>> why does it bother you at all ? Hopefully you should feel proud that 
>>> picture of an actual facility you know is being liked by others and being 
>>> promoted on the net...
>>>  
>>> and that is IMHO !
>>>  
>>> Of course everyone is entitled to their opinions and your mileage may vary 
>>> !.
>>>  
>>> :)
>>>  
>>> Faisal Imtiaz
>>> Snappy Internet & Telecom
>>> 7266 SW 48 Street
>>> Miami, FL 33155
>>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
>>> 
>>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
>>>  
>>> From: "Eric Kuhnke" mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: Friday, August 4, 2017 7:38:33 PM
>>> Subject: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX
>>> I am not the copyright owner of the photo in question. This is only a 
>>> request. 
>>> Please stop using the photo of the Westin Building 1901 fiber meet-me room 
>>> to advertise the Missouri IX.
>>>  
>>> Property owners and ISPs in the Pacific Northwest have spent a great
>>> deal of time, money and effort building traffic exchange infrastructure.
>>>  
>>> In my opinion is not an accurate or factual depiction of whatever 
>>> facilities may currently exist in Missouri to use a photograph from a 
>>> carrier hotel in downtown Seattle.
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 
>  

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[Steve Jones]

Alot of isps have stock photos. As long as its not specifically marketed as
their site, its just a general image.
The nursing home here has all kinds of stock photos of nurses that dont
work there, its all young beautiful ladies, when the reality is its mostly
old obese women.
Ive also never eaten a fast food burger that looks like the image on the
menu.

Stock photos are sold to the stock photo vendors. Same as we buy upstream
bandwidth to sell to our customers. We dont own the internet, or the
"cloud" but many show images of a customer connected to a "cloud".

>From a facilities security standpoint, i would think it would be bad form
to present actual images of the real premise.

Somewhere along the lines the owner of the premise in this image gave
permission for it to be used as a stock photo. If our sites didnt look like
a bunch of rats had an orgy during a tornado, id love to see my sites used
to represent the industry

On Aug 6, 2017 9:13 AM, "Matt Hoppes" 
wrote:

Would it be wrong for me to put towers from another WISP on my website?

Seems like you should sell your own dog food.

On Aug 6, 2017, at 10:08 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Marketing – always a question of how far do you stretch the truth.
How many products have been announced with an artists conception or
rendering of the product as they hope it to be...

Our community is just particularly sensitive due to the fact the almost all
of us have run lotsa CAT5 and fiber in equipment rooms.
I liked Forrest’s analogy of hotels.

We all own hotels, and someone puts up a photo showing they have a very
nice pool, but we know the pool is not in at their hotel yet.  So some of
us point that out.

Real estate developers always have artists renderings that they use to
pre-sell.  An IX could be thought of as a multi tenant dwelling.  OK, so
they plan on putting dishwashers in all the units, just not done yet.

*From:* Paul Stewart
*Sent:* Sunday, August 06, 2017 5:56 AM
*To:* Animal Farm
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

I believe the issue is that the picture may not represent the actual IX in
question (or MMR of the building where the IX is located might be more
accurate).  Basically, and pardon me possibly putting words in some
people’s mouthes here, when a group of people put a lot of work into
something and then a picture of that work is used elsewhere to possibly
resemble where a potential employee would work then it’s just misleading
and could be considered offensive to the people who did all the work
originally ….. make sense?

You’ll notice my choice of words here because I’m making assumptions about
why the folks involved are upset and try to put myself in their shoes, at
which point, if I have all my facts straight, I would be quite upset as
well because it would look like someone else is taking complete credit for
someone else’s work …. In the world of IX’s (something I do know a lot
about) there is often people who don’t get pay checks as they volunteer
however they get the rewards to contributing towards a great thing for the
community … if you haven’t been involved at that level you may not
understand anything I’m suggesting here ….

Paul



On Aug 5, 2017, at 8:42 PM, Mitch Koep  wrote:


Question??

Eric

Why are you so upset?

Did you have a bad dealing with someone and this is get back at them time?

I agree with Faisal it's a picture
Mitch
On 8/5/2017 11:29 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:

Share with you a related story

I was in a Conf. room of one of our Colo Facilities Providers, they had
some pictures on their Conf. Room wall, which all were nice.. but there was
one picture that caught eye and appeared to be very familiar.. it was a
picture of cluster of antennas mounted on the roof of that facility...

Upon a closer look, I recognized that that cluster was our antennas ! ...
so instantly two emotions came to mind... one was .. Hey that is a nice
picture ! I know to whom that stuff belongs to !... and the second... How
dare you take pictures of my equipment and hang it your conf. room (we
don't buy roof access from them)  !...

To me personally, the former feeling overcame the latter reaction... and I
actually felt proud of our little Cluster that someone viewed presentable
enough to put in their conf. room.

Having said that.. if you are not the copyright owner of the photo.. then
why does it bother you at all ? Hopefully you should feel proud that
picture of an actual facility you know is being liked by others and being
promoted on the net...

and that is IMHO !

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinions and your mileage may vary
!.

:)

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 <(305)%20663-5518> x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 <(305)%20663-5518> Option 2 or Email:
supp...@snappytelecom.net

--

*From: *"Eric Kuhnke" mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com
*To: *af@afmug.

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[chuck]

After 4 and 7 years respectively, I ended two orgies this summer.  I feel so 
legit now.  Makes me want to do dishes and mow the lawn.  
> If our sites didnt look like a bunch of rats had an orgy during a tornado, id 
> love to see my sites used to represent the industry

On Aug 6, 2017 9:13 AM, "Matt Hoppes"  wrote:

  Would it be wrong for me to put towers from another WISP on my website?

  Seems like you should sell your own dog food. 

  On Aug 6, 2017, at 10:08 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:


Marketing – always a question of how far do you stretch the truth.
How many products have been announced with an artists conception or 
rendering of the product as they hope it to be...

Our community is just particularly sensitive due to the fact the almost all 
of us have run lotsa CAT5 and fiber in equipment rooms.  
I liked Forrest’s analogy of hotels.  

We all own hotels, and someone puts up a photo showing they have a very 
nice pool, but we know the pool is not in at their hotel yet.  So some of us 
point that out.

Real estate developers always have artists renderings that they use to 
pre-sell.  An IX could be thought of as a multi tenant dwelling.  OK, so they 
plan on putting dishwashers in all the units, just not done yet.  

From: Paul Stewart 
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2017 5:56 AM
To: Animal Farm 
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

I believe the issue is that the picture may not represent the actual IX in 
question (or MMR of the building where the IX is located might be more 
accurate).  Basically, and pardon me possibly putting words in some people’s 
mouthes here, when a group of people put a lot of work into something and then 
a picture of that work is used elsewhere to possibly resemble where a potential 
employee would work then it’s just misleading and could be considered offensive 
to the people who did all the work originally ….. make sense? 

You’ll notice my choice of words here because I’m making assumptions about 
why the folks involved are upset and try to put myself in their shoes, at which 
point, if I have all my facts straight, I would be quite upset as well because 
it would look like someone else is taking complete credit for someone else’s 
work …. In the world of IX’s (something I do know a lot about) there is often 
people who don’t get pay checks as they volunteer however they get the rewards 
to contributing towards a great thing for the community … if you haven’t been 
involved at that level you may not understand anything I’m suggesting here ….

Paul


  On Aug 5, 2017, at 8:42 PM, Mitch Koep  wrote:

  Question??

  Eric

  Why are you so upset?

  Did you have a bad dealing with someone and this is get back at them time?

  I agree with Faisal it's a picture

  Mitch

  On 8/5/2017 11:29 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:

Share with you a related story

I was in a Conf. room of one of our Colo Facilities Providers, they had 
some pictures on their Conf. Room wall, which all were nice.. but there was one 
picture that caught eye and appeared to be very familiar.. it was a picture of 
cluster of antennas mounted on the roof of that facility...

Upon a closer look, I recognized that that cluster was our antennas ! 
... so instantly two emotions came to mind... one was .. Hey that is a nice 
picture ! I know to whom that stuff belongs to !... and the second... How dare 
you take pictures of my equipment and hang it your conf. room (we don't buy 
roof access from them)  !...

To me personally, the former feeling overcame the latter reaction... 
and I actually felt proud of our little Cluster that someone viewed presentable 
enough to put in their conf. room.

Having said that.. if you are not the copyright owner of the photo.. 
then why does it bother you at all ? Hopefully you should feel proud that 
picture of an actual facility you know is being liked by others and being 
promoted on the net... 

and that is IMHO !

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinions and your mileage may 
vary !.

:)

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net




  From: "Eric Kuhnke" mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Friday, August 4, 2017 7:38:33 PM
  Subject: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

  I am not the copyright owner of the photo in question. This is only a 
request. 

  Please stop using the photo of the Westin Building 1901 fiber meet-me 
room to advertise the Missouri IX. 

  Property owners and ISPs in the Pacific Northwest have spent a great 
deal of time, mo

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[Faisal Imtiaz]

>>> I am not the copyright owner of the photo in question. This is only a 
>>> request. 
>>>> Please stop using the photo of the Westin Building 1901 fiber meet-me room 
>>>> to advertise the Missouri IX. 

Hmm... not the copyright owner.. 
Not the Building Owner 
Not the Colo Owner 

So hence my question... as a third party affiliate why should there be any 
resentment ! 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Paul Stewart" 
> To: "Animal Farm" 
> Cc: "Faisal Imtiaz" 
> Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 7:56:10 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

> I believe the issue is that the picture may not represent the actual IX in
> question (or MMR of the building where the IX is located might be more
> accurate). Basically, and pardon me possibly putting words in some people’s
> mouthes here, when a group of people put a lot of work into something and then
> a picture of that work is used elsewhere to possibly resemble where a 
> potential
> employee would work then it’s just misleading and could be considered 
> offensive
> to the people who did all the work originally ….. make sense?

> You’ll notice my choice of words here because I’m making assumptions about why
> the folks involved are upset and try to put myself in their shoes, at which
> point, if I have all my facts straight, I would be quite upset as well because
> it would look like someone else is taking complete credit for someone else’s
> work …. In the world of IX’s (something I do know a lot about) there is often
> people who don’t get pay checks as they volunteer however they get the rewards
> to contributing towards a great thing for the community … if you haven’t been
> involved at that level you may not understand anything I’m suggesting here ….

> Paul

>> On Aug 5, 2017, at 8:42 PM, Mitch Koep < af...@abwisp.com > wrote:

>> Question??

>> Eric

>> Why are you so upset?

>> Did you have a bad dealing with someone and this is get back at them time?

>> I agree with Faisal it's a picture Mitch
>> On 8/5/2017 11:29 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:

>>> Share with you a related story

>>> I was in a Conf. room of one of our Colo Facilities Providers, they had some
>>> pictures on their Conf. Room wall, which all were nice.. but there was one
>>> picture that caught eye and appeared to be very familiar.. it was a picture 
>>> of
>>> cluster of antennas mounted on the roof of that facility...

>>> Upon a closer look, I recognized that that cluster was our antennas ! ... so
>>> instantly two emotions came to mind... one was .. Hey that is a nice 
>>> picture !
>>> I know to whom that stuff belongs to !... and the second... How dare you 
>>> take
>>> pictures of my equipment and hang it your conf. room (we don't buy roof 
>>> access
>>> from them) !...

>>> To me personally, the former feeling overcame the latter reaction... and I
>>> actually felt proud of our little Cluster that someone viewed presentable
>>> enough to put in their conf. room.

>>> Having said that.. if you are not the copyright owner of the photo.. then 
>>> why
>>> does it bother you at all ? Hopefully you should feel proud that picture of 
>>> an
>>> actual facility you know is being liked by others and being promoted on the
>>> net...

>>> and that is IMHO !

>>> Of course everyone is entitled to their opinions and your mileage may vary 
>>> !.

>>> :)

>>> Faisal Imtiaz
>>> Snappy Internet & Telecom
>>> 7266 SW 48 Street
>>> Miami, FL 33155
>>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

>>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

>>>> From: "Eric Kuhnke" 
>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>> Sent: Friday, August 4, 2017 7:38:33 PM
>>>> Subject: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

>>>> I am not the copyright owner of the photo in question. This is only a 
>>>> request.
>>>> Please stop using the photo of the Westin Building 1901 fiber meet-me room 
>>>> to
>>>> advertise the Missouri IX.

>>>> Property owners and ISPs in the Pacific Northwest have spent a great deal 
>>>> of
>>>> time, money and effort building traffic exchange infrastructure.

>>>> In my opinion is not an accurate or factual depiction of whatever 
>>>> facilities may
>>>> currently exist in Missouri to use a photograph from a carrier hotel in
>>>> downtown Seattle.

>>>> 

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[Mike Hammett]

I'm not sure IX employees ever really work in the MMR, rarely in the data 
center at all. Once a month? Once every other month? 

No claim of credit is being taken. 

Going to the original complaintant's employer's web site... is that lady doing 
whatever dev work she's doing a Noel employee\customer? Is that phone the type 
of phone you get with their voice service? Are those switches, patch panels and 
depictions of swirling light really what they're using? I'm assuming not. I'm 
assuming they're just stock images. I'm not assuming Noel is claiming all of 
the above. It's just a random image that looked nice and fit in with the page 
and what the service generally is. 

I suppose it would be different if we had pictures of SIX's core switches on 
our web site. We don't. We have a generic, pretty MMR. An MMR not maintained by 
volunteers, but the paid building management. No one's volunteered blood, sweat 
and tears went into it. Someone paid to do it was. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Paul Stewart"  
To: "Animal Farm"  
Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 6:56:15 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX 

I believe the issue is that the picture may not represent the actual IX in 
question (or MMR of the building where the IX is located might be more 
accurate). Basically, and pardon me possibly putting words in some people’s 
mouthes here, when a group of people put a lot of work into something and then 
a picture of that work is used elsewhere to possibly resemble where a potential 
employee would work then it’s just misleading and could be considered offensive 
to the people who did all the work originally ….. make sense? 


You’ll notice my choice of words here because I’m making assumptions about why 
the folks involved are upset and try to put myself in their shoes, at which 
point, if I have all my facts straight, I would be quite upset as well because 
it would look like someone else is taking complete credit for someone else’s 
work …. In the world of IX’s (something I do know a lot about) there is often 
people who don’t get pay checks as they volunteer however they get the rewards 
to contributing towards a great thing for the community … if you haven’t been 
involved at that level you may not understand anything I’m suggesting here …. 


Paul 







On Aug 5, 2017, at 8:42 PM, Mitch Koep < af...@abwisp.com > wrote: 



Question?? 
Eric 
Why are you so upset? 
Did you have a bad dealing with someone and this is get back at them time? 
I agree with Faisal it's a picture Mitch 

On 8/5/2017 11:29 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: 




Share with you a related story 


I was in a Conf. room of one of our Colo Facilities Providers, they had some 
pictures on their Conf. Room wall, which all were nice.. but there was one 
picture that caught eye and appeared to be very familiar.. it was a picture of 
cluster of antennas mounted on the roof of that facility... 


Upon a closer look, I recognized that that cluster was our antennas ! ... so 
instantly two emotions came to mind... one was .. Hey that is a nice picture ! 
I know to whom that stuff belongs to !... and the second... How dare you take 
pictures of my equipment and hang it your conf. room (we don't buy roof access 
from them) !... 


To me personally, the former feeling overcame the latter reaction... and I 
actually felt proud of our little Cluster that someone viewed presentable 
enough to put in their conf. room. 


Having said that.. if you are not the copyright owner of the photo.. then why 
does it bother you at all ? Hopefully you should feel proud that picture of an 
actual facility you know is being liked by others and being promoted on the 
net... 


and that is IMHO ! 


Of course everyone is entitled to their opinions and your mileage may vary !. 


:) 


Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

- Original Message -



From: "Eric Kuhnke"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, August 4, 2017 7:38:33 PM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX 






I am not the copyright owner of the photo in question. This is only a request. 

Please stop using the photo of the Westin Building 1901 fiber meet-me room to 
advertise the Missouri IX. 

Property owners and ISPs in the Pacific Northwest have spent a great deal of 
time, money and effort building traffic exchange infrastructure. 

In my opinion is not an accurate or factual depiction of whatever facilities 
may currently exist in Missouri to use a photograph from a carrier hotel in 
downtown Seattle. 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[Mike Hammett]

Towers from another WISP or random towers in a pretty picture? One is similar 
to the situation, the other is not. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Matt Hoppes"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 9:13:36 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX 



Would it be wrong for me to put towers from another WISP on my website? 


Seems like you should sell your own dog food. 

On Aug 6, 2017, at 10:08 AM, Chuck McCown < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 







Marketing – always a question of how far do you stretch the truth. 
How many products have been announced with an artists conception or rendering 
of the product as they hope it to be... 

Our community is just particularly sensitive due to the fact the almost all of 
us have run lotsa CAT5 and fiber in equipment rooms. 
I liked Forrest’s analogy of hotels. 

We all own hotels, and someone puts up a photo showing they have a very nice 
pool, but we know the pool is not in at their hotel yet. So some of us point 
that out. 

Real estate developers always have artists renderings that they use to 
pre-sell. An IX could be thought of as a multi tenant dwelling. OK, so they 
plan on putting dishwashers in all the units, just not done yet. 




From: Paul Stewart 
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2017 5:56 AM 
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX 

I believe the issue is that the picture may not represent the actual IX in 
question (or MMR of the building where the IX is located might be more 
accurate). Basically, and pardon me possibly putting words in some people’s 
mouthes here, when a group of people put a lot of work into something and then 
a picture of that work is used elsewhere to possibly resemble where a potential 
employee would work then it’s just misleading and could be considered offensive 
to the people who did all the work originally ….. make sense? 

You’ll notice my choice of words here because I’m making assumptions about why 
the folks involved are upset and try to put myself in their shoes, at which 
point, if I have all my facts straight, I would be quite upset as well because 
it would look like someone else is taking complete credit for someone else’s 
work …. In the world of IX’s (something I do know a lot about) there is often 
people who don’t get pay checks as they volunteer however they get the rewards 
to contributing towards a great thing for the community … if you haven’t been 
involved at that level you may not understand anything I’m suggesting here …. 

Paul 






On Aug 5, 2017, at 8:42 PM, Mitch Koep < af...@abwisp.com > wrote: 



Question?? 
Eric 
Why are you so upset? 
Did you have a bad dealing with someone and this is get back at them time? 
I agree with Faisal it's a picture Mitch 

On 8/5/2017 11:29 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: 




Share with you a related story 

I was in a Conf. room of one of our Colo Facilities Providers, they had some 
pictures on their Conf. Room wall, which all were nice.. but there was one 
picture that caught eye and appeared to be very familiar.. it was a picture of 
cluster of antennas mounted on the roof of that facility... 

Upon a closer look, I recognized that that cluster was our antennas ! ... so 
instantly two emotions came to mind... one was .. Hey that is a nice picture ! 
I know to whom that stuff belongs to !... and the second... How dare you take 
pictures of my equipment and hang it your conf. room (we don't buy roof access 
from them) !... 

To me personally, the former feeling overcame the latter reaction... and I 
actually felt proud of our little Cluster that someone viewed presentable 
enough to put in their conf. room. 

Having said that.. if you are not the copyright owner of the photo.. then why 
does it bother you at all ? Hopefully you should feel proud that picture of an 
actual facility you know is being liked by others and being promoted on the 
net... 

and that is IMHO ! 

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinions and your mileage may vary !. 

:) 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 
- Original Message -



From: "Eric Kuhnke" mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, August 4, 2017 7:38:33 PM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX 






I am not the copyright owner of the photo in question. This is only a request. 

Please stop using the photo of the Westin Building 1901 fiber meet-me room to 
advertise the Missouri IX. 

Property owners and ISPs in the Pacific Northwest have spent a great deal of 
time, money and effort building traffic exchange infrastructure. 

In my opinion is not an accurate or factual depiction of whatever facilities 
may currently exist in Missouri to use 

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[Mike Hammett]

I suppose also different if I operated a datacenter, MMR, etc. I sell an IX, 
not an MMR. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Faisal Imtiaz"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 10:25:41 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX 



Sure, if you were actually paying for the room to stay in, then you should 
expect the room to look like the picture.. 


However we sell "fluff" (nothing physical) and "electrons moving over cables 
creating emotions".. you are not likely to get to touch, feel, smell or even 
step into the Colo Room as a subscriber to the IX there is no claim being 
made by Midwest IX that this Colo Room is theirs ... 


Folks have stock pictures of People on their web site... Should we now argue 
that it should be pictures of their actual Employees ? 
We have stock pictures of Equipment in a Colo, Racks / cabinets etc etc .. 
Should they be of the ones that we Own or Rent ? 
We have stock pictures of Towers and radios etc etc .. Should they be ours all 
the time ? 




Common.. this is 'meaningless conversation'... 


Bit of advice to Eric before issuing a condescending remark or a demand 
notice to others on a public list, especially when there is no direct personal 
vested interest, it would be best to ask the question rather than issuing a 
demand notice 


This conversation would have gone totally different if it was asked... " Hey 
you all @ Midwest IXP, why are you using the Picture of Westin Bldg Meet Me 
room" on your website ? 

:) 


Regards. 




Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

- Original Message -



From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)"  
To: "af"  
Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 1:24:42 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX 






Let me see if I can add some sanity to this discussion: 

Eric seems put out not because of the use of the picture itself, but instead 
because a site for one internet exchange is using a picture for a different 
internet exchange. 
The other side of the discussion is that it is a stock photo of an internet 
exchange meet-me room, and it is perfectly legitimate to use that picture. 

I look at this a lot like the photos on a hotel site. When you're looking at a 
site for a hotel, you'd expect all of the photos to be of that hotel. Yet, it 
is amazing how often I come across stock pictures used. Yes, it might be a 
picture of a particular brand of hotel, but sometimes it's just a 
representative picture, not a picture of the exact hotel. 

For example, compare the photos at: 
https://www.extendedstayamerica.com/hotels/il/chicago/skokie 

and 
https://www.extendedstayamerica.com/hotels/il/chicago/midway 


I've seen uses where the actual rooms aren't even close to the website photos. 
Personally this kinda pisses me off, as if you're showing photos of somewhere 
I'm going to stay or rent (or use for interconnect purposes) I'd really prefer 
them to be actually of the place. On the other hand, this seems to be 
widespread enough that it's pretty much an accepted practice at this point, so 
perhaps I'm in the minority with this opinion. 

Personally, I'd probably try very hard to ensure that I had pictures up on the 
website which were of the facility I was promoting. 



On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 5:38 PM, Eric Kuhnke < eric.kuh...@gmail.com > wrote: 



I am not the copyright owner of the photo in question. This is only a request. 

Please stop using the photo of the Westin Building 1901 fiber meet-me room to 
advertise the Missouri IX. 

Property owners and ISPs in the Pacific Northwest have spent a great deal of 
time, money and effort building traffic exchange infrastructure. 

In my opinion is not an accurate or factual depiction of whatever facilities 
may currently exist in Missouri to use a photograph from a carrier hotel in 
downtown Seattle. 

Inline image 1





-- 





Forrest Christian CEO , PacketFlux Technologies, Inc. 

Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com 

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[Paul Stewart]

> 
> I'm not sure IX employees ever really work in the MMR, rarely in the data 
> center at all. Once a month? Once every other month?

Depends on the IX (as I get off topic here) … some of them are daily in MMR’s.  
As for DC’s themselves, I can speak personally about one IX in particular where 
it’s 2-3 times a week I’d estimate and another one that is manned within the DC 
24x7.  
> 
>  An MMR not maintained by volunteers, but the paid building management. No 
> one's volunteered blood, sweat and tears went into it. Someone paid to do it 
> was.
> 
True … but lots of volunteers from IX’s sometimes have access to the MMR’s to 
do their work. It varies of course… quite a number of IX’s use colo providers 
whom are paid to do that MMR work but that’s not alway the case ….

Anyways - moot points here and I’m dropping from the conversation as probably 
not helping here :)  


> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>  <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> 
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> 
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> 
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>  <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> 
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> 
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>  <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
> 
> 
>  <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> From: "Paul Stewart" mailto:p...@paulstewart.org>>
> To: "Animal Farm" mailto:af@afmug.com>>
> Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 6:56:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX
> 
> I believe the issue is that the picture may not represent the actual IX in 
> question (or MMR of the building where the IX is located might be more 
> accurate).  Basically, and pardon me possibly putting words in some people’s 
> mouthes here, when a group of people put a lot of work into something and 
> then a picture of that work is used elsewhere to possibly resemble where a 
> potential employee would work then it’s just misleading and could be 
> considered offensive to the people who did all the work originally ….. make 
> sense?
> 
> You’ll notice my choice of words here because I’m making assumptions about 
> why the folks involved are upset and try to put myself in their shoes, at 
> which point, if I have all my facts straight, I would be quite upset as well 
> because it would look like someone else is taking complete credit for someone 
> else’s work …. In the world of IX’s (something I do know a lot about) there 
> is often people who don’t get pay checks as they volunteer however they get 
> the rewards to contributing towards a great thing for the community … if you 
> haven’t been involved at that level you may not understand anything I’m 
> suggesting here ….
> 
> Paul
> 
> 
> On Aug 5, 2017, at 8:42 PM, Mitch Koep  <mailto:af...@abwisp.com>> wrote:
> 
> Question??
> Eric
> Why are you so upset?
> Did you have a bad dealing with someone and this is get back at them time?
> I agree with Faisal it's a picture
> Mitch
> On 8/5/2017 11:29 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
> Share with you a related story
> 
> I was in a Conf. room of one of our Colo Facilities Providers, they had some 
> pictures on their Conf. Room wall, which all were nice.. but there was one 
> picture that caught eye and appeared to be very familiar.. it was a picture 
> of cluster of antennas mounted on the roof of that facility...
> 
> Upon a closer look, I recognized that that cluster was our antennas ! ... so 
> instantly two emotions came to mind... one was .. Hey that is a nice picture 
> ! I know to whom that stuff belongs to !... and the second... How dare you 
> take pictures of my equipment and hang it your conf. room (we don't buy roof 
> access from them)  !...
> 
> To me personally, the former feeling overcame the latter reaction... and I 
> actually felt proud of our little Cluster that someone viewed presentable 
> enough to put in their conf. room.
> 
> Having said that.. if you are not the copyright owner of the photo.. then why 
> does it bother you at all ? Hopefully you should feel proud that picture of 
> an actual facility you know is being liked by others and being promoted on 
> the net... 
> 
> and that is IMHO !
> 
> Of course everyone is entitled to their opinions and your mileage may vary !.
> 
> :)
> 
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 7266 SW 48 Street
> Miami, FL 33155

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[chuck]

It is amazing how a collection of subject matter experts can strain at gnats.  

I am just as guilty as anyone else when it comes to my area of special concern. 
 Part 15 antenna certification requirements etc.  

Time to listen to this again:
https://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/371/scenes-from-a-mall?act=3

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 9:31 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

I suppose also different if I operated a datacenter, MMR, etc. I sell an IX, 
not an MMR.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Faisal Imtiaz" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 10:25:41 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX


Sure, if you were actually paying for the room to stay in, then you should 
expect the room to look like the picture..

However we sell "fluff" (nothing physical) and "electrons moving over cables 
creating emotions".. you are not likely to  get to touch, feel, smell or even 
step into the Colo Room as a subscriber to the IX there is no claim being 
made by Midwest IX that this Colo Room is theirs ... 

Folks have stock pictures of People on their web site... Should we now argue 
that it should be pictures of their actual Employees ?  
We have stock pictures of Equipment in a Colo, Racks / cabinets etc etc .. 
Should they be of the ones that we Own or Rent ? 
We have stock pictures of Towers and radios etc etc .. Should they be ours all 
the time ? 


Common.. this is 'meaningless conversation'...

Bit of advice to Eric before issuing a condescending remark or a demand 
notice  to others on a public list, especially when there is no direct personal 
vested interest, it would be best to ask the question rather than issuing a 
demand notice

This conversation would have gone totally different if it was asked... " Hey 
you all @ Midwest IXP, why are you using the Picture of Westin Bldg Meet Me 
room" on your website ? 

:)

Regards.
 


Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net




  From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
  To: "af" 
  Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 1:24:42 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

  Let me see if I can add some sanity to this discussion:

  Eric seems put out not because of the use of the picture itself, but instead 
because a site for one internet exchange is using a picture for a different 
internet exchange.   
  The other side of the discussion is that it is a stock photo of an internet 
exchange meet-me room, and it is perfectly legitimate to use that picture.

  I look at this a lot like the photos on a hotel site.  When you're looking at 
a site for a hotel, you'd expect all of the photos to be of that hotel.  Yet, 
it is amazing how often I come across stock pictures used.   Yes, it might be a 
picture of a particular brand of hotel, but sometimes it's just a 
representative picture, not a picture of the exact hotel.  

  For example, compare the photos at:
  https://www.extendedstayamerica.com/hotels/il/chicago/skokie

  and
  https://www.extendedstayamerica.com/hotels/il/chicago/midway


  I've seen uses where the actual rooms aren't even close to the website 
photos.  Personally this kinda pisses me off, as if you're showing photos 
of somewhere I'm going to stay or rent (or use for interconnect purposes) I'd 
really prefer them to be actually of the place.  On the other hand, this seems 
to be widespread enough that it's pretty much an accepted practice at this 
point, so perhaps I'm in the minority with this opinion.

  Personally, I'd probably try very hard to ensure that I had pictures up on 
the website which were of the facility I was promoting.   


  On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 5:38 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

I am not the copyright owner of the photo in question. This is only a 
request. 

Please stop using the photo of the Westin Building 1901 fiber meet-me room 
to advertise the Missouri IX. 

Property owners and ISPs in the Pacific Northwest have spent a great deal 
of time, money and effort building traffic exchange infrastructure.

In my opinion is not an accurate or factual depiction of whatever 
facilities may currently exist in Missouri to use a photograph from a carrier 
hotel in downtown Seattle.






  -- 

Forrest Christian CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.

Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com

   

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[Mike Hammett]

Pre-patch a bunch of stuff into pre-populated SFPs and when orders are 
submitted, the data center's cross connect crew does all the work. No need to 
visit the facility regularly. :-) 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Paul Stewart"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 10:35:54 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX 







I'm not sure IX employees ever really work in the MMR, rarely in the data 
center at all. Once a month? Once every other month? 




Depends on the IX (as I get off topic here) … some of them are daily in MMR’s. 
As for DC’s themselves, I can speak personally about one IX in particular where 
it’s 2-3 times a week I’d estimate and another one that is manned within the DC 
24x7. 





An MMR not maintained by volunteers, but the paid building management. No one's 
volunteered blood, sweat and tears went into it. Someone paid to do it was. 



True … but lots of volunteers from IX’s sometimes have access to the MMR’s to 
do their work. It varies of course… quite a number of IX’s use colo providers 
whom are paid to do that MMR work but that’s not alway the case …. 


Anyways - moot points here and I’m dropping from the conversation as probably 
not helping here :) 










- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Paul Stewart" < p...@paulstewart.org > 
To: "Animal Farm" < af@afmug.com > 
Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 6:56:15 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX 

I believe the issue is that the picture may not represent the actual IX in 
question (or MMR of the building where the IX is located might be more 
accurate). Basically, and pardon me possibly putting words in some people’s 
mouthes here, when a group of people put a lot of work into something and then 
a picture of that work is used elsewhere to possibly resemble where a potential 
employee would work then it’s just misleading and could be considered offensive 
to the people who did all the work originally ….. make sense? 


You’ll notice my choice of words here because I’m making assumptions about why 
the folks involved are upset and try to put myself in their shoes, at which 
point, if I have all my facts straight, I would be quite upset as well because 
it would look like someone else is taking complete credit for someone else’s 
work …. In the world of IX’s (something I do know a lot about) there is often 
people who don’t get pay checks as they volunteer however they get the rewards 
to contributing towards a great thing for the community … if you haven’t been 
involved at that level you may not understand anything I’m suggesting here …. 


Paul 







On Aug 5, 2017, at 8:42 PM, Mitch Koep < af...@abwisp.com > wrote: 



Question?? 
Eric 
Why are you so upset? 
Did you have a bad dealing with someone and this is get back at them time? 
I agree with Faisal it's a picture Mitch 

On 8/5/2017 11:29 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: 




Share with you a related story 


I was in a Conf. room of one of our Colo Facilities Providers, they had some 
pictures on their Conf. Room wall, which all were nice.. but there was one 
picture that caught eye and appeared to be very familiar.. it was a picture of 
cluster of antennas mounted on the roof of that facility... 


Upon a closer look, I recognized that that cluster was our antennas ! ... so 
instantly two emotions came to mind... one was .. Hey that is a nice picture ! 
I know to whom that stuff belongs to !... and the second... How dare you take 
pictures of my equipment and hang it your conf. room (we don't buy roof access 
from them) !... 


To me personally, the former feeling overcame the latter reaction... and I 
actually felt proud of our little Cluster that someone viewed presentable 
enough to put in their conf. room. 


Having said that.. if you are not the copyright owner of the photo.. then why 
does it bother you at all ? Hopefully you should feel proud that picture of an 
actual facility you know is being liked by others and being promoted on the 
net... 


and that is IMHO ! 


Of course everyone is entitled to their opinions and your mileage may vary !. 


:) 


Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

- Original Message -



From: "Eric Kuhnke"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, August 4, 2017 7:38:33 PM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX 






I am not the copyright owner of the photo in question. This is only a request. 

Please stop using the photo of the Westin Building 1901 fiber meet-me room to 
advertise the Missouri IX. 

Property owners and ISPs in the Pacific

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[Matt Hoppes]

So let me throw this out. I advertise a colo facility with generator backup. 

Post pictures like this. 

Actual facility is a back room in an office with racks from Lowe's and a roll 
out generator we plug in with extension cords. 

At what point is this a problem?

> On Aug 6, 2017, at 11:37 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> 
> Pre-patch a bunch of stuff into pre-populated SFPs and when orders are 
> submitted, the data center's cross connect crew does all the work. No need to 
> visit the facility regularly.  :-)
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange
> 
> The Brothers WISP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: "Paul Stewart" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 10:35:54 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX
> 
> 
> I'm not sure IX employees ever really work in the MMR, rarely in the data 
> center at all. Once a month? Once every other month?
> 
> Depends on the IX (as I get off topic here) … some of them are daily in 
> MMR’s.  As for DC’s themselves, I can speak personally about one IX in 
> particular where it’s 2-3 times a week I’d estimate and another one that is 
> manned within the DC 24x7.  
> 
>  An MMR not maintained by volunteers, but the paid building management. No 
> one's volunteered blood, sweat and tears went into it. Someone paid to do it 
> was.
> 
> True … but lots of volunteers from IX’s sometimes have access to the MMR’s to 
> do their work. It varies of course… quite a number of IX’s use colo providers 
> whom are paid to do that MMR work but that’s not alway the case ….
> 
> Anyways - moot points here and I’m dropping from the conversation as probably 
> not helping here :)  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange
> 
> The Brothers WISP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: "Paul Stewart" 
> To: "Animal Farm" 
> Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 6:56:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX
> 
> I believe the issue is that the picture may not represent the actual IX in 
> question (or MMR of the building where the IX is located might be more 
> accurate).  Basically, and pardon me possibly putting words in some people’s 
> mouthes here, when a group of people put a lot of work into something and 
> then a picture of that work is used elsewhere to possibly resemble where a 
> potential employee would work then it’s just misleading and could be 
> considered offensive to the people who did all the work originally ….. make 
> sense?
> 
> You’ll notice my choice of words here because I’m making assumptions about 
> why the folks involved are upset and try to put myself in their shoes, at 
> which point, if I have all my facts straight, I would be quite upset as well 
> because it would look like someone else is taking complete credit for someone 
> else’s work …. In the world of IX’s (something I do know a lot about) there 
> is often people who don’t get pay checks as they volunteer however they get 
> the rewards to contributing towards a great thing for the community … if you 
> haven’t been involved at that level you may not understand anything I’m 
> suggesting here ….
> 
> Paul
> 
> 
> On Aug 5, 2017, at 8:42 PM, Mitch Koep  wrote:
> 
> Question??
> Eric
> Why are you so upset?
> Did you have a bad dealing with someone and this is get back at them time?
> I agree with Faisal it's a picture
> Mitch
> On 8/5/2017 11:29 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
> Share with you a related story
> 
> I was in a Conf. room of one of our Colo Facilities Providers, they had some 
> pictures on their Conf. Room wall, which all were nice.. but there was one 
> picture that caught eye and appeared to be very familiar.. it was a picture 
> of cluster of antennas mounted on the roof of that facility...
> 
> Upon a closer look, I recognized that that cluster was our antennas ! ... so 
> instantly two emotions came to mind... one was .. Hey that is a nice picture 
> ! I know to whom that stuff belongs to !... and the second... How dare you 
> take pictures of my equipment and hang it your conf. room (we don't buy roof 
> access from them)  !...
> 
> To me personally, the former feeling overcame the latter reaction... and I 
> actually felt proud of our little Cluster that someone viewed presentable 
> enough to put in their conf. room.
> 
> Having said that.. if you are not the copyright owner of the photo.. then why 
> does it bother you at all ? Hopefully you should feel proud that picture of 
> an actual facility you know is being liked by others and being promoted on 
> the net... 

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[Mike Hammett]

It's a problem when you're not even understanding what you're talking about, so 
it's a problem now. Well, and you didn't attach the pictures you were talking 
about. 

You said you advertise colo A and have colo B. That's different than having IX 
A and showing colo B. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Matt Hoppes"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 11:03:11 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX 



So let me throw this out. I advertise a colo facility with generator backup. 


Post pictures like this. 


Actual facility is a back room in an office with racks from Lowe's and a roll 
out generator we plug in with extension cords. 


At what point is this a problem? 

On Aug 6, 2017, at 11:37 AM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 





Pre-patch a bunch of stuff into pre-populated SFPs and when orders are 
submitted, the data center's cross connect crew does all the work. No need to 
visit the facility regularly. :-) 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Paul Stewart" < p...@paulstewart.org > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 10:35:54 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX 







I'm not sure IX employees ever really work in the MMR, rarely in the data 
center at all. Once a month? Once every other month? 




Depends on the IX (as I get off topic here) … some of them are daily in MMR’s. 
As for DC’s themselves, I can speak personally about one IX in particular where 
it’s 2-3 times a week I’d estimate and another one that is manned within the DC 
24x7. 





An MMR not maintained by volunteers, but the paid building management. No one's 
volunteered blood, sweat and tears went into it. Someone paid to do it was. 



True … but lots of volunteers from IX’s sometimes have access to the MMR’s to 
do their work. It varies of course… quite a number of IX’s use colo providers 
whom are paid to do that MMR work but that’s not alway the case …. 


Anyways - moot points here and I’m dropping from the conversation as probably 
not helping here :) 










- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Paul Stewart" < p...@paulstewart.org > 
To: "Animal Farm" < af@afmug.com > 
Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 6:56:15 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX 

I believe the issue is that the picture may not represent the actual IX in 
question (or MMR of the building where the IX is located might be more 
accurate). Basically, and pardon me possibly putting words in some people’s 
mouthes here, when a group of people put a lot of work into something and then 
a picture of that work is used elsewhere to possibly resemble where a potential 
employee would work then it’s just misleading and could be considered offensive 
to the people who did all the work originally ….. make sense? 


You’ll notice my choice of words here because I’m making assumptions about why 
the folks involved are upset and try to put myself in their shoes, at which 
point, if I have all my facts straight, I would be quite upset as well because 
it would look like someone else is taking complete credit for someone else’s 
work …. In the world of IX’s (something I do know a lot about) there is often 
people who don’t get pay checks as they volunteer however they get the rewards 
to contributing towards a great thing for the community … if you haven’t been 
involved at that level you may not understand anything I’m suggesting here …. 


Paul 







On Aug 5, 2017, at 8:42 PM, Mitch Koep < af...@abwisp.com > wrote: 



Question?? 
Eric 
Why are you so upset? 
Did you have a bad dealing with someone and this is get back at them time? 
I agree with Faisal it's a picture Mitch 

On 8/5/2017 11:29 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: 




Share with you a related story 


I was in a Conf. room of one of our Colo Facilities Providers, they had some 
pictures on their Conf. Room wall, which all were nice.. but there was one 
picture that caught eye and appeared to be very familiar.. it was a picture of 
cluster of antennas mounted on the roof of that facility... 


Upon a closer look, I recognized that that cluster was our antennas ! ... so 
instantly two emotions came to mind... one was .. Hey that is a nice picture ! 
I know to whom that stuff belongs to !... and the second... How dare you take 
pictures of my equipment and hang it your conf. room (we don't buy roof access 
from them) !... 


To me personally, the former feeling overcame the latter reaction... and I 
actually felt proud of our little Cluster that someone viewed presentable 
enoug

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[Steve Jones]

If youre not reading the contract before you sign it, and following up with
questions about basic things like that then there is a much bigger issue
for your company than a stock profile background image

On Aug 6, 2017 11:03 AM, "Matt Hoppes" 
wrote:

> So let me throw this out. I advertise a colo facility with generator
> backup.
>
> Post pictures like this.
>
> Actual facility is a back room in an office with racks from Lowe's and a
> roll out generator we plug in with extension cords.
>
> At what point is this a problem?
>
> On Aug 6, 2017, at 11:37 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
> Pre-patch a bunch of stuff into pre-populated SFPs and when orders are
> submitted, the data center's cross connect crew does all the work. No need
> to visit the facility regularly.  :-)
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Paul Stewart" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Sunday, August 6, 2017 10:35:54 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX
>
>
> I'm not sure IX employees ever really work in the MMR, rarely in the data
> center at all. Once a month? Once every other month?
>
>
> Depends on the IX (as I get off topic here) … some of them are daily in
> MMR’s.  As for DC’s themselves, I can speak personally about one IX in
> particular where it’s 2-3 times a week I’d estimate and another one that is
> manned within the DC 24x7.
>
>
>  An MMR not maintained by volunteers, but the paid building management. No
> one's volunteered blood, sweat and tears went into it. Someone paid to do
> it was.
>
> True … but lots of volunteers from IX’s sometimes have access to the MMR’s
> to do their work. It varies of course… quite a number of IX’s use colo
> providers whom are paid to do that MMR work but that’s not alway the case ….
>
> Anyways - moot points here and I’m dropping from the conversation as
> probably not helping here :)
>
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Paul Stewart" 
> *To: *"Animal Farm" 
> *Sent: *Sunday, August 6, 2017 6:56:15 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX
>
> I believe the issue is that the picture may not represent the actual IX in
> question (or MMR of the building where the IX is located might be more
> accurate).  Basically, and pardon me possibly putting words in some
> people’s mouthes here, when a group of people put a lot of work into
> something and then a picture of that work is used elsewhere to possibly
> resemble where a potential employee would work then it’s just misleading
> and could be considered offensive to the people who did all the work
> originally ….. make sense?
>
> You’ll notice my choice of words here because I’m making assumptions about
> why the folks involved are upset and try to put myself in their shoes, at
> which point, if I have all my facts straight, I would be quite upset as
> well because it would look like someone else is taking complete credit for
> someone else’s work …. In the world of IX’s (something I do know a lot
> about) there is often people who don’t get pay checks as they volunteer
> however they get the rewards to contributing towards a great thing for the
> community … if you haven’t been involved at that level you may not
> understand anything I

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[Faisal Imtiaz]

Are you prepared to give your customers a 'Tour of the Facilities?' 

We normally like to have a tour of the facilities before we engage for service. 

We also have 'informal' colo facilities, for which we highly encourage 
customers to visit before deciding to utilize. 

How does this 'relate' to a pictures of racks and cables ? which could be 
anywhere... 

BWT in case you all have not seen the large posters from Equinix they 
are using a beautiful picture of high rises in Dubai... should we be offended 
that are they using an awesome picture of high-rises from a foreign country 
when they are a US Based company ? 

Dude, get over it .. .there is a fine line in advertising and everyone 
dresses up for the formal presentation  So What ? 

:) 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Matt Hoppes" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 12:03:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

> So let me throw this out. I advertise a colo facility with generator backup.

> Post pictures like this.

> Actual facility is a back room in an office with racks from Lowe's and a roll
> out generator we plug in with extension cords.

> At what point is this a problem?

> On Aug 6, 2017, at 11:37 AM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote:

>> Pre-patch a bunch of stuff into pre-populated SFPs and when orders are
>> submitted, the data center's cross connect crew does all the work. No need to
>> visit the facility regularly. :-)

>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions

>> Midwest Internet Exchange

>> The Brothers WISP

>> From: "Paul Stewart" < p...@paulstewart.org >
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 10:35:54 AM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

>>> I'm not sure IX employees ever really work in the MMR, rarely in the data 
>>> center
>>> at all. Once a month? Once every other month?

>> Depends on the IX (as I get off topic here) … some of them are daily in 
>> MMR’s.
>> As for DC’s themselves, I can speak personally about one IX in particular 
>> where
>> it’s 2-3 times a week I’d estimate and another one that is manned within the 
>> DC
>> 24x7.

>>> An MMR not maintained by volunteers, but the paid building management. No 
>>> one's
>>> volunteered blood, sweat and tears went into it. Someone paid to do it was.

>> True … but lots of volunteers from IX’s sometimes have access to the MMR’s 
>> to do
>> their work. It varies of course… quite a number of IX’s use colo providers 
>> whom
>> are paid to do that MMR work but that’s not alway the case ….

>> Anyways - moot points here and I’m dropping from the conversation as probably
>> not helping here :)

>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions

>>> Midwest Internet Exchange

>>> The Brothers WISP

>>> From: "Paul Stewart" < p...@paulstewart.org >
>>> To: "Animal Farm" < af@afmug.com >
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 6:56:15 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

>>> I believe the issue is that the picture may not represent the actual IX in
>>> question (or MMR of the building where the IX is located might be more
>>> accurate). Basically, and pardon me possibly putting words in some people’s
>>> mouthes here, when a group of people put a lot of work into something and 
>>> then
>>> a picture of that work is used elsewhere to possibly resemble where a 
>>> potential
>>> employee would work then it’s just misleading and could be considered 
>>> offensive
>>> to the people who did all the work originally ….. make sense?

>>> You’ll notice my choice of words here because I’m making assumptions about 
>>> why
>>> the folks involved are upset and try to put myself in their shoes, at which
>>> point, if I have all my facts straight, I would be quite upset as well 
>>> because
>>> it would look like someone else is taking complete credit for someone else’s
>>> work …. In the world of IX’s (something I do know a lot about) there is 
>>> often
>>> people who don’t get pay checks as they volunteer however they get the 
>>> rewards
>>> to contributing towards a great thing for the community … if you haven’t 
>>> been
>>> involved at that level you may not unde

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[Mitch Koep]

Will somebody PLEASE kill this string?

LOL it will go on and on forever

Mitch


On 8/6/2017 3:32 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:

Are you prepared to give your customers a 'Tour of the Facilities?'

We normally like to have a tour of the facilities before we engage for 
service.


We also have 'informal' colo facilities, for which we highly encourage 
customers to visit before deciding to utilize.


How does this 'relate' to a pictures of racks and cables ? which could 
be anywhere...



BWT in case you all have not seen the large posters from 
Equinix they are using a beautiful picture of high rises in 
Dubai... should we be offended that  are they using an awesome picture 
of high-rises from a foreign country when they are a US Based company ?


Dude, get over it .. .there is a fine line in advertising and 
everyone dresses up for the formal presentation  So What ?


:)

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net



*From: *"Matt Hoppes" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Sunday, August 6, 2017 12:03:11 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

So let me throw this out. I advertise a colo facility with
generator backup.

Post pictures like this.

Actual facility is a back room in an office with racks from Lowe's
and a roll out generator we plug in with extension cords.

At what point is this a problem?

On Aug 6, 2017, at 11:37 AM, Mike Hammett mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:

Pre-patch a bunch of stuff into pre-populated SFPs and when
orders are submitted, the data center's cross connect crew
does all the work. No need to visit the facility regularly.  :-)



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>

<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>

<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

*From: *"Paul Stewart" mailto:p...@paulstewart.org>>
    *To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent: *Sunday, August 6, 2017 10:35:54 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

I'm not sure IX employees ever really work in the MMR,
rarely in the data center at all. Once a month? Once every
other month?


Depends on the IX (as I get off topic here) … some of them are
daily in MMR’s.  As for DC’s themselves, I can speak
personally about one IX in particular where it’s 2-3 times a
week I’d estimate and another one that is manned within the DC
24x7.


 An MMR not maintained by volunteers, but the paid
building management. No one's volunteered blood, sweat and
tears went into it. Someone paid to do it was.

True … but lots of volunteers from IX’s sometimes have access
to the MMR’s to do their work. It varies of course… quite a
number of IX’s use colo providers whom are paid to do that MMR
work but that’s not alway the case ….

Anyways - moot points here and I’m dropping from the
conversation as probably not helping here :)




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>

<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>

<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

--------------------
*From:*"Paul Stewart" mailto:p...@paulstewart.org>>
 

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[Mike Hammett]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G7b1zOhO_A 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Mitch Koep"  
To: af@afmug.com, "Faisal Imtiaz"  
Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 6:38:44 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX 


Will somebody PLEASE kill this string? 
LOL it will go on and on forever 
Mitch 


On 8/6/2017 3:32 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: 




Are you prepared to give your customers a 'Tour of the Facilities?' 


We normally like to have a tour of the facilities before we engage for service. 


We also have 'informal' colo facilities, for which we highly encourage 
customers to visit before deciding to utilize. 


How does this 'relate' to a pictures of racks and cables ? which could be 
anywhere... 




BWT in case you all have not seen the large posters from Equinix they 
are using a beautiful picture of high rises in Dubai... should we be offended 
that are they using an awesome picture of high-rises from a foreign country 
when they are a US Based company ? 


Dude, get over it .. .there is a fine line in advertising and everyone 
dresses up for the formal presentation  So What ? 


:) 


Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

- Original Message -



From: "Matt Hoppes"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 12:03:11 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX 






So let me throw this out. I advertise a colo facility with generator backup. 

Post pictures like this. 

Actual facility is a back room in an office with racks from Lowe's and a roll 
out generator we plug in with extension cords. 

At what point is this a problem? 

On Aug 6, 2017, at 11:37 AM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 





Pre-patch a bunch of stuff into pre-populated SFPs and when orders are 
submitted, the data center's cross connect crew does all the work. No need to 
visit the facility regularly. :-) 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Paul Stewart" < p...@paulstewart.org > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 10:35:54 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX 






I'm not sure IX employees ever really work in the MMR, rarely in the data 
center at all. Once a month? Once every other month? 




Depends on the IX (as I get off topic here) … some of them are daily in MMR’s. 
As for DC’s themselves, I can speak personally about one IX in particular where 
it’s 2-3 times a week I’d estimate and another one that is manned within the DC 
24x7. 





An MMR not maintained by volunteers, but the paid building management. No one's 
volunteered blood, sweat and tears went into it. Someone paid to do it was. 



True … but lots of volunteers from IX’s sometimes have access to the MMR’s to 
do their work. It varies of course… quite a number of IX’s use colo providers 
whom are paid to do that MMR work but that’s not alway the case …. 


Anyways - moot points here and I’m dropping from the conversation as probably 
not helping here :) 










- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Paul Stewart" < p...@paulstewart.org > 
To: "Animal Farm" < af@afmug.com > 
Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 6:56:15 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX 

I believe the issue is that the picture may not represent the actual IX in 
question (or MMR of the building where the IX is located might be more 
accurate). Basically, and pardon me possibly putting words in some people’s 
mouthes here, when a group of people put a lot of work into something and then 
a picture of that work is used elsewhere to possibly resemble where a potential 
employee would work then it’s just misleading and could be considered offensive 
to the people who did all the work originally ….. make sense? 


You’ll notice my choice of words here because I’m making assumptions about why 
the folks involved are upset and try to put myself in their shoes, at which 
point, if I have all my facts straight, I would be quite upset as well because 
it would look like someone else is taking complete credit for someone else’s 
work …. In the world of IX’s (something I do know a lot about) there is often 
people who don’t get pay checks as they volunteer however they get the rewards 
to contributing towards a great thing for the community … if you haven’t been 
involved at that level you may not understand anything I’m suggesting here …. 


Paul 







On Aug 5, 2017, at 8:42 PM, Mitch Koep < af...@

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[Chuck McCown]

You got it:

Posts of snark, posts so cussed 
full of butt hurt, bitches not just 
I scatter these posts, these posts of rage 
take thine ignorant friend, make him age 
I see thine missives before me now 
I trash them, delete them, filter them down 
With these keystrokes I now do pwn 
Make thine mouse balls turn to stone 
With this hex I curse this thread 
further thoughts -  pain in head 
So mote it be! 


From: Mitch Koep 
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2017 5:38 PM
To: af@afmug.com ; Faisal Imtiaz 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX


Will somebody PLEASE kill this string?

LOL it will go on and on forever

Mitch




On 8/6/2017 3:32 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:

Are you prepared to give your customers a 'Tour of the Facilities?'

We normally like to have a tour of the facilities before we engage for service.

We also have 'informal' colo facilities, for which we highly encourage 
customers to visit before deciding to utilize.

How does this 'relate' to a pictures of racks and cables ? which could be 
anywhere...


BWT in case you all have not seen the large posters from Equinix they 
are using a beautiful picture of high rises in Dubai... should we be offended 
that  are they using an awesome picture of high-rises from a foreign country 
when they are a US Based company ? 

Dude, get over it .. .there is a fine line in advertising and everyone 
dresses up for the formal presentation  So What ? 

:)

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net


From: "Matt Hoppes" mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 12:03:11 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX


So let me throw this out. I advertise a colo facility with generator backup. 

Post pictures like this. 

Actual facility is a back room in an office with racks from Lowe's and a roll 
out generator we plug in with extension cords. 

At what point is this a problem?

On Aug 6, 2017, at 11:37 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:


Pre-patch a bunch of stuff into pre-populated SFPs and when orders are 
submitted, the data center's cross connect crew does all the work. No need to 
visit the facility regularly.  :-)




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP





From: "Paul Stewart" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 10:35:54 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX



I'm not sure IX employees ever really work in the MMR, rarely in the data 
center at all. Once a month? Once every other month?


Depends on the IX (as I get off topic here) … some of them are daily in MMR’s.  
As for DC’s themselves, I can speak personally about one IX in particular where 
it’s 2-3 times a week I’d estimate and another one that is manned within the DC 
24x7.  


An MMR not maintained by volunteers, but the paid building management. No one's 
volunteered blood, sweat and tears went into it. Someone paid to do it was.

True … but lots of volunteers from IX’s sometimes have access to the MMR’s to 
do their work. It varies of course… quite a number of IX’s use colo providers 
whom are paid to do that MMR work but that’s not alway the case ….

Anyways - moot points here and I’m dropping from the conversation as probably 
not helping here :)  





-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP





From: "Paul Stewart" 
To: "Animal Farm" 
Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 6:56:15 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

I believe the issue is that the picture may not represent the actual IX in 
question (or MMR of the building where the IX is located might be more 
accurate).  Basically, and pardon me possibly putting words in some people’s 
mouthes here, when a group of people put a lot of work into something and then 
a picture of that work is used elsewhere to possibly resemble where a potential 
employee would work then it’s just misleading and could be considered offensive 
to the people who did all the work originally ….. make sense? 

You’ll notice my choice of words here because I’m making assumptions about why 
the folks involved are upset and try to put myself in their shoes, at which 
point, if I have all my facts straight, I would be quite upset as well because 
it would look like someone else is taking complete credit for someone else’s 
work …. In the world of IX’s (something I do know a lot about) there is often 
people who don’t get pay checks as they volunteer however they get the rewards 
to contributing towards a great thing for the community … if you haven’t been 
involved at that level you may not understand anything I’m suggesting here ….

Paul



On Aug 5, 2017, at 8:42 PM, Mitch Koep  wrote:
Question??
Eric
Why are you so upset?
Did y

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[Matt Hoppes]

/quit

> On Aug 6, 2017, at 7:56 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> 
> You got it:
>  
> Posts of snark, posts so cussed
> full of butt hurt, bitches not just
> I scatter these posts, these posts of rage
> take thine ignorant friend, make him age
> I see thine missives before me now
> I trash them, delete them, filter them down
> With these keystrokes I now do pwn
> Make thine mouse balls turn to stone 
> With this hex I curse this thread
> further thoughts -  pain in head
> So mote it be!
>  
>  
> From: Mitch Koep
> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2017 5:38 PM
> To: af@afmug.com ; Faisal Imtiaz
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX
>  
>  
> Will somebody PLEASE kill this string?
>  
> LOL it will go on and on forever
>  
> Mitch
>  
>  
>  
>  
> On 8/6/2017 3:32 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
>  
> Are you prepared to give your customers a 'Tour of the Facilities?'
>  
> We normally like to have a tour of the facilities before we engage for 
> service.
>  
> We also have 'informal' colo facilities, for which we highly encourage 
> customers to visit before deciding to utilize.
>  
> How does this 'relate' to a pictures of racks and cables ? which could be 
> anywhere...
>  
>  
> BWT in case you all have not seen the large posters from Equinix they 
> are using a beautiful picture of high rises in Dubai... should we be offended 
> that  are they using an awesome picture of high-rises from a  foreign country 
> when they are a US Based company ?
>  
> Dude, get over it .. .there is a fine line in advertising and everyone 
> dresses up for the formal presentation  So What ?
>  
> :)
>  
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 7266 SW 48 Street
> Miami, FL 33155
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
>  
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
>  
>  
> From: "Matt Hoppes" mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 12:03:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX
>  
>  
> So let me throw this out. I advertise a colo facility with generator backup.
>  
> Post pictures like this.
>  
> Actual facility is a back room in an office with racks from Lowe's and a roll 
> out generator we plug in with extension cords.
>  
> At what point is this a problem?
>  
> On Aug 6, 2017, at 11:37 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>  
>  
> Pre-patch a bunch of stuff into pre-populated SFPs and when orders are 
> submitted, the data center's cross connect crew does all the work. No need to 
> visit the facility regularly.  :-)
>  
>  
>  
>  
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>  
> Midwest Internet Exchange
>  
> The Brothers WISP
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> From: "Paul Stewart" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 10:35:54 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX
>  
>  
>  
> I'm not sure IX employees ever really work in the MMR, rarely in the data 
> center at all. Once a month? Once every other month?
>  
>  
> Depends on the IX (as I get off topic here) … some of them are daily in 
> MMR’s.  As for DC’s themselves, I can speak personally about one IX in 
> particular where it’s 2-3 times a week I’d estimate and another one that is 
> manned within the DC 24x7. 
>  
>  
> An MMR not maintained by volunteers, but the paid building management. No 
> one's volunteered blood, sweat and tears went into it. Someone paid to do it 
> was.
>  
> True … but lots of volunteers from IX’s sometimes have access to the MMR’s to 
> do their work. It varies of course… quite a number of IX’s use colo providers 
> whom are paid to do that MMR work but that’s not alway the case ….
>  
> Anyways - moot points here and I’m dropping from the conversation as probably 
> not helping here :) 
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>  
> Midwest Internet Exchange
>  
> The Brothers WISP
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> From: "Paul Stewart" 
> To: "Animal Farm" 
> Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 6:56:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX
>  
> I believe the issue is that the picture may not represent the actual IX in 
> question (or MMR of the building where the IX is located might be more 
> accurate).  Basically, and pardon me possibly putting words in some people’s 
> mouthes here, when a group of people put a lot of work into something and 
> then a picture of that work is used elsewhere to possibly resemble wher

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[Faisal Imtiaz]

Wow Ye a Man of Many Talents .. 

Spoken Word be one of them I would have thought naught ! 

The Big C M hath spoken... so let this thread be naught ! 

:) 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Chuck McCown" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 7:56:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

> You got it:
> Posts of snark, posts so cussed
> full of butt hurt, bitches not just
> I scatter these posts, these posts of rage
> take thine ignorant friend, make him age
> I see thine missives before me now
> I trash them, delete them, filter them down
> With these keystrokes I now do pwn
> Make thine mouse balls turn to stone
> With this hex I curse this thread
> further thoughts - pain in head
> So mote it be!
> From: Mitch Koep
> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2017 5:38 PM
> To: af@afmug.com ; Faisal Imtiaz
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX
> Will somebody PLEASE kill this string?
> LOL it will go on and on forever
> Mitch
> On 8/6/2017 3:32 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
> Are you prepared to give your customers a 'Tour of the Facilities?'
> We normally like to have a tour of the facilities before we engage for 
> service.
> We also have 'informal' colo facilities, for which we highly encourage 
> customers
> to visit before deciding to utilize.
> How does this 'relate' to a pictures of racks and cables ? which could be
> anywhere...
> BWT in case you all have not seen the large posters from Equinix they
> are using a beautiful picture of high rises in Dubai... should we be offended
> that are they using an awesome picture of high-rises from a foreign country
> when they are a US Based company ?
> Dude, get over it .. .there is a fine line in advertising and everyone
> dresses up for the formal presentation  So What ?
> :)
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 7266 SW 48 Street
> Miami, FL 33155
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
> From: "Matt Hoppes" mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 12:03:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX
> So let me throw this out. I advertise a colo facility with generator backup.
> Post pictures like this.
> Actual facility is a back room in an office with racks from Lowe's and a roll
> out generator we plug in with extension cords.
> At what point is this a problem?
> On Aug 6, 2017, at 11:37 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> Pre-patch a bunch of stuff into pre-populated SFPs and when orders are
> submitted, the data center's cross connect crew does all the work. No need to
> visit the facility regularly. :-)
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> Midwest Internet Exchange
> The Brothers WISP
> From: "Paul Stewart" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 10:35:54 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX
> I'm not sure IX employees ever really work in the MMR, rarely in the data 
> center
> at all. Once a month? Once every other month?
> Depends on the IX (as I get off topic here) … some of them are daily in MMR’s.
> As for DC’s themselves, I can speak personally about one IX in particular 
> where
> it’s 2-3 times a week I’d estimate and another one that is manned within the 
> DC
> 24x7.
> An MMR not maintained by volunteers, but the paid building management. No 
> one's
> volunteered blood, sweat and tears went into it. Someone paid to do it was.
> True … but lots of volunteers from IX’s sometimes have access to the MMR’s to 
> do
> their work. It varies of course… quite a number of IX’s use colo providers 
> whom
> are paid to do that MMR work but that’s not alway the case ….
> Anyways - moot points here and I’m dropping from the conversation as probably
> not helping here :)
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> Midwest Internet Exchange
> The Brothers WISP
> From: "Paul Stewart" 
> To: "Animal Farm" 
> Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 6:56:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX
> I believe the issue is that the picture may not represent the actual IX in
> question (or MMR of the building where the IX is located might be more
> accurate). Basically, and pardon me possibly putting words in some people’s
> mouthes here, when a group of people put a lot of work into something and then
> a picture of that work is used elsewhere to possibly resemble where a 
> pot

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[Justin Wilson]

Thank you Mitch!

Being one of the owners or MidWest-IX I wanted to address this then someone 
please kill this thread.


1.I am not sure who Eric Kuhnke is.  We have never had dealings with him nor 
have I ever spoken to him except on Facebook.  Not sure what got under his skin 
but he has a major issue.  It’s kinda creepy.

2.The photo is of the Westin Building meet me room.  It’s kinda hard to miss 
that.

3.The photo was purchased from a Stock Photo site when we created the new 
version of midwest-ix.com.  I still have the receipt as part of business 
expenses. It was given with a limited license.  We could use it on a web-site 
and in limited usage.  It was not an exclusive license. I believe the site is 
stockphoto.com and they were responsible for the license of the image.

4.In no way do we represent the photo as being our network. It’s a photo for 
crap sake.  By design, we do not own data centers.Nowhere do we say this is 
out data center our our meet me room. If it was a random photo it would not be 
used.  If it hadn’t been bought from a stock photo site it would not have been 
used.

5.We are not Missouri IX.  We are MidWest-IX and FD-IX. We are not just in 
Missouri.  We are in many places not even listed on the web-site for one reason 
or another.Nowhere do we imply that is our meet me room.  Any implication 
is a totally subjective to the person viewing the room.


And here is the most Important thing of all of this!
6.How do you know we don’t have a presence in that room? Have you ever had the 
courtesy to ask us before assuming? How do you know we do not do business with 
the Westin Building and it’s tenants? How do you know if we have had any 
conversations about the meet me room and the photo with representatives of the 
Westin Building? One of the folks from the Westin was at WispAmerica this year. 
Him and I sat down and talked and I even showed him our web-site. 

Done and Done.


Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

www.mtin.net
j2sw.com
www.midwest-ix.com

> On Aug 5, 2017, at 8:42 PM, Mitch Koep  wrote:
> 
> Question??
> 
> Eric
> 
> Why are you so upset?
> 
> Did you have a bad dealing with someone and this is get back at them time?
> 
> I agree with Faisal it's a picture
> 
> Mitch
> On 8/5/2017 11:29 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
>> Share with you a related story
>> 
>> I was in a Conf. room of one of our Colo Facilities Providers, they had some 
>> pictures on their Conf. Room wall, which all were nice.. but there was one 
>> picture that caught eye and appeared to be very familiar.. it was a picture 
>> of cluster of antennas mounted on the roof of that facility...
>> 
>> Upon a closer look, I recognized that that cluster was our antennas ! ... so 
>> instantly two emotions came to mind... one was .. Hey that is a nice picture 
>> ! I know to whom that stuff belongs to !... and the second... How dare you 
>> take pictures of my equipment and hang it your conf. room (we don't buy roof 
>> access from them)  !...
>> 
>> To me personally, the former feeling overcame the latter reaction... and I 
>> actually felt proud of our little Cluster that someone viewed presentable 
>> enough to put in their conf. room.
>> 
>> Having said that.. if you are not the copyright owner of the photo.. then 
>> why does it bother you at all ? Hopefully you should feel proud that picture 
>> of an actual facility you know is being liked by others and being promoted 
>> on the net... 
>> 
>> and that is IMHO !
>> 
>> Of course everyone is entitled to their opinions and your mileage may vary !.
>> 
>> :)
>> 
>> Faisal Imtiaz
>> Snappy Internet & Telecom
>> 7266 SW 48 Street
>> Miami, FL 33155
>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
>> 
>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 
>> 
>> 
>> From: "Eric Kuhnke"  
>> To: af@afmug.com 
>> Sent: Friday, August 4, 2017 7:38:33 PM
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX
>> I am not the copyright owner of the photo in question. This is only a 
>> request. 
>> Please stop using the photo of the Westin Building 1901 fiber meet-me room 
>> to advertise the Missouri IX. 
>> 
>> Property owners and ISPs in the Pacific Northwest have spent a great deal of 
>> time, money and effort building traffic exchange infrastructure.
>> 
>> In my opinion is not an accurate or factual depiction of whatever facilities 
>> may currently exist in Missouri to use a photograph from a carrier hotel in 
>> downtown Seattle.
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[Steve Jones]

so, one of my habanero plants has zero capsaicin, like none.

On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:44 PM, Justin Wilson  wrote:

> Thank you Mitch!
>
> Being one of the owners or MidWest-IX I wanted to address this then
> someone please kill this thread.
>
>
> 1.I am not sure who Eric Kuhnke is.  We have never had dealings with him
> nor have I ever spoken to him except on Facebook.  Not sure what got under
> his skin but he has a major issue.  It’s kinda creepy.
>
> 2.The photo is of the Westin Building meet me room.  It’s kinda hard to
> miss that.
>
> 3.The photo was purchased from a Stock Photo site when we created the new
> version of midwest-ix.com.  I still have the receipt as part of business
> expenses. It was given with a limited license.  We could use it on a
> web-site and in limited usage.  It was not an exclusive license. I believe
> the site is stockphoto.com and they were responsible for the license of
> the image.
>
> 4.In no way do we represent the photo as being our network. It’s a photo
> for crap sake.  By design, we do not own data centers.Nowhere do we say
> this is out data center our our meet me room. If it was a random photo it
> would not be used.  If it hadn’t been bought from a stock photo site it
> would not have been used.
>
> 5.We are not Missouri IX.  We are MidWest-IX and FD-IX. We are not just in
> Missouri.  We are in many places not even listed on the web-site for one
> reason or another.Nowhere do we imply that is our meet me room.  Any
> implication is a totally subjective to the person viewing the room.
>
>
> And here is the most Important thing of all of this!
> 6.How do you know we don’t have a presence in that room? Have you ever had
> the courtesy to ask us before assuming? How do you know we do not do
> business with the Westin Building and it’s tenants? How do you know if we
> have had any conversations about the meet me room and the photo with
> representatives of the Westin Building? One of the folks from the Westin
> was at WispAmerica this year. Him and I sat down and talked and I even
> showed him our web-site.
>
> Done and Done.
>
>
> Justin Wilson
> j...@mtin.net
>
> www.mtin.net
> j2sw.com
> www.midwest-ix.com
>
> On Aug 5, 2017, at 8:42 PM, Mitch Koep  wrote:
>
> Question??
>
> Eric
>
> Why are you so upset?
>
> Did you have a bad dealing with someone and this is get back at them time?
>
> I agree with Faisal it's a picture
> Mitch
> On 8/5/2017 11:29 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
>
> Share with you a related story
>
> I was in a Conf. room of one of our Colo Facilities Providers, they had
> some pictures on their Conf. Room wall, which all were nice.. but there was
> one picture that caught eye and appeared to be very familiar.. it was a
> picture of cluster of antennas mounted on the roof of that facility...
>
> Upon a closer look, I recognized that that cluster was our antennas ! ...
> so instantly two emotions came to mind... one was .. Hey that is a nice
> picture ! I know to whom that stuff belongs to !... and the second... How
> dare you take pictures of my equipment and hang it your conf. room (we
> don't buy roof access from them)  !...
>
> To me personally, the former feeling overcame the latter reaction... and I
> actually felt proud of our little Cluster that someone viewed presentable
> enough to put in their conf. room.
>
> Having said that.. if you are not the copyright owner of the photo.. then
> why does it bother you at all ? Hopefully you should feel proud that
> picture of an actual facility you know is being liked by others and being
> promoted on the net...
>
> and that is IMHO !
>
> Of course everyone is entitled to their opinions and your mileage may vary
> !.
>
> :)
>
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 7266 SW 48 Street
> Miami, FL 33155
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 <(305)%20663-5518>
>
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 <(305)%20663-5518> Option 2 or Email:
> supp...@snappytelecom.net
>
> --
>
> *From: *"Eric Kuhnke"  
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, August 4, 2017 7:38:33 PM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX
>
> I am not the copyright owner of the photo in question. This is only a
> request.
> Please stop using the photo of the Westin Building 1901 fiber meet-me room
> to advertise the Missouri IX.
>
> Property owners and ISPs in the Pacific Northwest have spent a great deal
> of time, money and effort building traffic exchange infrastructure.
>
> In my opinion is not an accurate or factual depiction of whatever
> facilities may currently exist in Missouri to use a photograph from a
> carrier hotel in downtown Seattle.
>
> 
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[Chuck McCown]

It identifies as a bell pepper.  You need to be more understanding.  I was born 
that way.  

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2017 7:59 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

so, one of my habanero plants has zero capsaicin, like none. 

On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:44 PM, Justin Wilson  wrote:

  Thank you Mitch!

  Being one of the owners or MidWest-IX I wanted to address this then someone 
please kill this thread.


  1.I am not sure who Eric Kuhnke is.  We have never had dealings with him nor 
have I ever spoken to him except on Facebook.  Not sure what got under his skin 
but he has a major issue.  It’s kinda creepy.

  2.The photo is of the Westin Building meet me room.  It’s kinda hard to miss 
that.

  3.The photo was purchased from a Stock Photo site when we created the new 
version of midwest-ix.com.  I still have the receipt as part of business 
expenses. It was given with a limited license.  We could use it on a web-site 
and in limited usage.  It was not an exclusive license. I believe the site is 
stockphoto.com and they were responsible for the license of the image.

  4.In no way do we represent the photo as being our network. It’s a photo for 
crap sake.  By design, we do not own data centers.Nowhere do we say this is 
out data center our our meet me room. If it was a random photo it would not be 
used.  If it hadn’t been bought from a stock photo site it would not have been 
used.

  5.We are not Missouri IX.  We are MidWest-IX and FD-IX. We are not just in 
Missouri.  We are in many places not even listed on the web-site for one reason 
or another.Nowhere do we imply that is our meet me room.  Any implication 
is a totally subjective to the person viewing the room.


  And here is the most Important thing of all of this!
  6.How do you know we don’t have a presence in that room? Have you ever had 
the courtesy to ask us before assuming? How do you know we do not do business 
with the Westin Building and it’s tenants? How do you know if we have had any 
conversations about the meet me room and the photo with representatives of the 
Westin Building? One of the folks from the Westin was at WispAmerica this year. 
Him and I sat down and talked and I even showed him our web-site. 

  Done and Done.


  Justin Wilson
  j...@mtin.net

  www.mtin.net
  j2sw.com
  www.midwest-ix.com

On Aug 5, 2017, at 8:42 PM, Mitch Koep  wrote:


Question??

Eric

Why are you so upset?

Did you have a bad dealing with someone and this is get back at them time?

I agree with Faisal it's a picture

Mitch

On 8/5/2017 11:29 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:

  Share with you a related story

  I was in a Conf. room of one of our Colo Facilities Providers, they had 
some pictures on their Conf. Room wall, which all were nice.. but there was one 
picture that caught eye and appeared to be very familiar.. it was a picture of 
cluster of antennas mounted on the roof of that facility...

  Upon a closer look, I recognized that that cluster was our antennas ! ... 
so instantly two emotions came to mind... one was .. Hey that is a nice picture 
! I know to whom that stuff belongs to !... and the second... How dare you take 
pictures of my equipment and hang it your conf. room (we don't buy roof access 
from them)  !...

  To me personally, the former feeling overcame the latter reaction... and 
I actually felt proud of our little Cluster that someone viewed presentable 
enough to put in their conf. room.

  Having said that.. if you are not the copyright owner of the photo.. then 
why does it bother you at all ? Hopefully you should feel proud that picture of 
an actual facility you know is being liked by others and being promoted on the 
net... 

  and that is IMHO !

  Of course everyone is entitled to their opinions and your mileage may 
vary !.

  :)

  Faisal Imtiaz
  Snappy Internet & Telecom
  7266 SW 48 Street
  Miami, FL 33155
  Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

  Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net


--

From: "Eric Kuhnke" mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, August 4, 2017 7:38:33 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

I am not the copyright owner of the photo in question. This is only a 
request. 

Please stop using the photo of the Westin Building 1901 fiber meet-me 
room to advertise the Missouri IX. 

Property owners and ISPs in the Pacific Northwest have spent a great 
deal of time, money and effort building traffic exchange infrastructure.

In my opinion is not an accurate or factual depiction of whatever 
facilities may currently exist in Missouri to use a photograph from a carrier 
hotel in downtown Seattle.

Re: [AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

[George Skorup]

You were supposed to get a can of holy Tecate from Jaime to bless it. Or 
maybe you drink it and then piss on the plant. I forget.


On 8/7/2017 8:59 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

so, one of my habanero plants has zero capsaicin, like none.

On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:44 PM, Justin Wilson > wrote:


Thank you Mitch!

Being one of the owners or MidWest-IX I wanted to address this
then someone please kill this thread.


1.I am not sure who Eric Kuhnke is.  We have never had dealings
with him nor have I ever spoken to him except on Facebook.  Not
sure what got under his skin but he has a major issue.  It’s kinda
creepy.

2.The photo is of the Westin Building meet me room. It’s kinda
hard to miss that.

3.The photo was purchased from a Stock Photo site when we created
the new version of midwest-ix.com .  I
still have the receipt as part of business expenses. It was given
with a limited license.  We could use it on a web-site and in
limited usage.  It was not an exclusive license. I believe the
site is stockphoto.com  and they were
responsible for the license of the image.

4.In no way do we represent the photo as being our network. It’s a
photo for crap sake.  By design, we do not own data centers.  
 Nowhere do we say this is out data center our our meet me room.

If it was a random photo it would not be used.  If it hadn’t been
bought from a stock photo site it would not have been used.

5.We are not Missouri IX.  We are MidWest-IX and FD-IX. We are not
just in Missouri.  We are in many places not even listed on the
web-site for one reason or another.Nowhere do we imply that is
our meet me room.  Any implication is a totally subjective to the
person viewing the room.


And here is the most Important thing of all of this!
6.How do you know we don’t have a presence in that room? Have you
ever had the courtesy to ask us before assuming? How do you know
we do not do business with the Westin Building and it’s tenants?
How do you know if we have had any conversations about the meet me
room and the photo with representatives of the Westin Building?
One of the folks from the Westin was at WispAmerica this year. Him
and I sat down and talked and I even showed him our web-site.

Done and Done.


Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net 

www.mtin.net 
j2sw.com 
www.midwest-ix.com 


On Aug 5, 2017, at 8:42 PM, Mitch Koep mailto:af...@abwisp.com>> wrote:

Question??

Eric

Why are you so upset?

Did you have a bad dealing with someone and this is get back at
them time?

I agree with Faisal it's a picture

Mitch
On 8/5/2017 11:29 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:

Share with you a related story

I was in a Conf. room of one of our Colo Facilities Providers,
they had some pictures on their Conf. Room wall, which all were
nice.. but there was one picture that caught eye and appeared to
be very familiar.. it was a picture of cluster of antennas
mounted on the roof of that facility...

Upon a closer look, I recognized that that cluster was our
antennas ! ... so instantly two emotions came to mind... one was
.. Hey that is a nice picture ! I know to whom that stuff
belongs to !... and the second... How dare you take pictures of
my equipment and hang it your conf. room (we don't buy roof
access from them)  !...

To me personally, the former feeling overcame the latter
reaction... and I actually felt proud of our little Cluster that
someone viewed presentable enough to put in their conf. room.

Having said that.. if you are not the copyright owner of the
photo.. then why does it bother you at all ? Hopefully you
should feel proud that picture of an actual facility you know is
being liked by others and being promoted on the net...

and that is IMHO !

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinions and your
mileage may vary !.

:)

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518  Option 2 or
Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 



*From: *"Eric Kuhnke" 

*To: *af@afmug.com 
*Sent: *Friday, August 4, 2017 7:38:33 PM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] Matt Hoppes and Missouri IX

I am not the copyright owner of the photo in question. This
is only a request.
Please stop using the photo of the Westin Building 1901
fiber meet-me room to advertise the Missouri IX.

Property owners and ISPs in t