DIS: Re: BUS: OFFER: ANY STONE EFFECT YOU WANT! (@notary)
I offer 1 coin
On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 10:11 AM Cuddle Beam wrote:
> Hohoho ye!
>
> Informal auction supremac
>
> On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 5:15 AM Trigon via agora-business <
> agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:
>
>> I am holding an unofficial auction for what to do with my recursion
>> stone. Highest offer wins. Along with your bid you should submit (either
>> publicly or privately) which stone effect you want.
>>
>> I'll announce the winner close to the start of 31 October. I'll create a
>> promise in my possession that will do your stone effect as you have
>> described in exchange for what you have bid. Then you'll perform the
>> effect close to the end of 31 October. If it is within an hour of 31
>> October ending and you haven't acted on your promise, I reserve the
>> right to perform another stone effect (logistical thing -- I only want
>> the stone to have one escape chance next month).
>>
>> I pledge: { I will act as I have stated in the paragraphs above under a
>> three blot penalty. }
>>
>> Please keep your bids in this thread.
>>
>> --
>> Trigon
>>
>> ¸¸.•*¨*• Play AGORA QUEST
>>
>> <https://agoranomic.org/AgoraQuest>
>> <https://agoranomic.org/AgoraQuest>
>> <https://agoranomic.org/AgoraQuest>
>>
>> I’m always happy to become a party to contracts.
>> I LOVE SPAGHETTI
>> transfer Jason one coin
>> nch was here
>> I hereby
>> don't... trust... the dragon...
>> don't... trust... the dragon...
>> Do not Construe Jason's message with subject TRIGON as extending this
>>
>
DIS: Re: BUS: OFFER: ANY STONE EFFECT YOU WANT! (@notary)
Hohoho ye!
Informal auction supremac
On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 5:15 AM Trigon via agora-business <
agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> I am holding an unofficial auction for what to do with my recursion
> stone. Highest offer wins. Along with your bid you should submit (either
> publicly or privately) which stone effect you want.
>
> I'll announce the winner close to the start of 31 October. I'll create a
> promise in my possession that will do your stone effect as you have
> described in exchange for what you have bid. Then you'll perform the
> effect close to the end of 31 October. If it is within an hour of 31
> October ending and you haven't acted on your promise, I reserve the
> right to perform another stone effect (logistical thing -- I only want
> the stone to have one escape chance next month).
>
> I pledge: { I will act as I have stated in the paragraphs above under a
> three blot penalty. }
>
> Please keep your bids in this thread.
>
> --
> Trigon
>
> ¸¸.•*¨*• Play AGORA QUEST
>
>
>
>
>
> I’m always happy to become a party to contracts.
> I LOVE SPAGHETTI
> transfer Jason one coin
> nch was here
> I hereby
> don't... trust... the dragon...
> don't... trust... the dragon...
> Do not Construe Jason's message with subject TRIGON as extending this
>
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer makes a pitch
I choose nix as advisor because the list is theirs On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 10:31 PM Nix Null via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On Thursday, October 7th, 2021 at 3:04 PM, Cuddle Beam via agora-business < > agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > I do want to get a thesis done, and I'm going to try this thesis > procedure > > > > informally as I do so (it's nix's, credit to them). > > > > Pitch: you say what you plan to do, people opine on how viable it is and > > > > what degree it'd likely get, herald assigns three advisors. > > > > Draft: you write it, with advisor assistance if necessary > > > > Present: you present a version and advisors vote to either accept or > > > > require refinement > > > > My Pitch: > > > > So, I significantly contributed to the non-scam wins we've had so far > with > > > > the current Card economic system. While I don't believe myself to be > > > > exceptional when it comes to these things, I want to write a short > playbook > > > > of what I did with explanations about why they're good ideas (eg. my high > > > > risk gambling and why they were a good idea to do). > > After more discord discussion, slight modification: I'll choose an > advisor, CB will choose an advisor, and the advisors will choose their > third. > > If you're willing to be an advisor please say so. > > As for the pitch: I think this is solid Baccalaureate material. Playbooks > are an interesting idea in general that I'd love to see published, but > they're also very narrow in focus. >
DIS: Re: humble agoran farmer tests something
test On Wed, Oct 6, 2021 at 2:11 PM Cuddle Beam wrote: > this is just some mundane email stuff >
DIS: humble agoran farmer tests something
this is just some mundane email stuff
DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer makes a pledge
I pledge to vote (via my own vote and via the votes I control via contract) FOR the Proposal that existed when I made this named “Solo Acitivity” On Saturday, September 25, 2021, Cuddle Beam via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > I pledge to not vote (either via my own vote or via the votes I control via > contract) AGAINST the Proposal that existed when I made this named “Solo > Acitivity” >
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer asks you to not press the button please
It’s OK! I’d just ask that its done in like a month or two, if possible On Saturday, September 25, 2021, Falsifian via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > I haven't forgotten about this! > > Trying to think of some clever way to do it, but if you'd rather have > your new name within the next week or two LMK and I'll just pick one. > > -- > Falsifian > > On Tue, Sep 14, 2021 at 10:45:44AM +0200, Cuddle Beam via agora-discussion > wrote: > > Madrid and Jerez are locations I hold dear. I was actually inspired for > > this by a university friend who we call "Murcia" (Mur-see-ah) because > he's > > from Murcia. Later on I saw Money Heist (La Casa de Papel) on Netflix > and I > > was like oh, location names are cool. > > > > Gomez, Osorio and Rodriguez are surnames. You might be familiar with > > Picasso's overly long name? Well, it's a Spanish custom to do that, it's > > just not typical nowadays to actually have had your name legally > registered > > as it like he had. Some of those surnames may or may not be part of my > > collection of names. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Sep 14, 2021 at 5:42 AM Falsifian via agora-discussion < > > agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > > > Oh no! That is a lot of responsibility. I should not have PRESSED THE > > > BUTTON. > > > > > > Could you tell me what some of the names mean to you? E.g. it's > > > interesting that Madrid is a city name but I think the others are > > > person names. > > > > > > -- > > > Falsifian > > > > > > On Sat, Sep 11, 2021 at 09:56:34PM +0200, Cuddle Beam via > agora-business > > > wrote: > > > > YOU HAVE PRESSED THE BUTTON FALSIFIAN > > > > > > > > That means that you now have to choose my new name from the following > > > > options. I've been meaning to change off 'Cuddlebeam' for Agora for > some > > > > time now, because it's primarily the name that I use for the > expansion > > > > fetish porn that I make; and with minors in the game, I've started to > > > feel > > > > guilty about it. It's time to move on! > > > > > > > > You have the following options: > > > > - Madrid > > > > - Jerez > > > > - Gomez > > > > - Osorio > > > > - Rodriguez > > > > > > > > Agora, please refer to me by Falsifian's choice once they choose. > I'll > > > make > > > > a new email too to reflect the name change. > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 9, 2021 at 6:31 PM Falsifian via agora-business < > > > > agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 09, 2021 at 10:06:13AM +0200, Cuddle Beam via > > > agora-business > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > I create the following contract called "THE BUTTON": > > > > > > > > > > > > Any member to this contract can PRESS THE BUTTON by announcement > (but > > > > > > please don't). The BUTTON is NOT PRESSED by default (as it should > > > be), > > > > > but > > > > > > it can be PRESSED (but you shouldn't) via the method stated > > > previously > > > > > > (please don't do it). > > > > > > > > > > > > Any player can join or leave this contract by announcement. > > > > > > > > > > I join that contract, PRESS THE BUTTON, then leave that contract. > > > > > > > > > > Yolo. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Falsifian > > > > > > > > >
DIS: Re: BUS: [Contract] Let's split some cards
I don't think I've ever won that random VC though. My bad luck is too powerful. On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 8:11 PM ais523 via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On Tue, 2021-09-21 at 12:04 -0400, the Notary's Report wrote: > > The Puppet SHALL NOT plan to flip eir Ministry Focus or grant eir > > Ministry Focus's Grant, except as provided for in this contract. The > > Puppet SHALL NOT transfer or spend their last Victory Card, if they > > have been granted one by the Ministor by virtue of R2624 and the > > Puppeteer hasn’t used this contract to transfer it to themselves yet. > (an excerpt from "Jumblebeam Deal"; Cuddlebeam is the Puppet at > present) > > On Wed, 2021-09-22 at 17:12 +0200, Cuddle Beam via agora-business > wrote: > > I transfer one of each type of card and 250 coins to this contract > > and join it. > > I point my finger at Cuddlebeam for violating rule 1742 by failing to > act in accordance with the contract "Jumblebeam Deal". Specifically, e > transferred eir last Victory Card, despite previously having been > granted a Victory Card by the Ministor via Rule 2624, and Jumble not > yet having transferred it to emself. > > Note that this is probably a bug in the contract – the card that > triggers the clause was granted at a time when Cuddlebeam wasn't the > Puppet, so it probably wasn't intended to be transferred to Jumble; and > it ended up getting transferred to someone else and there's been a > reset since anyway. But the wording of the contract seems to treat this > as an apporpriate trigger to prevent Cuddlebeam transferring eir last > Victory Card anyway. So this is more of a "technical breach of the > rules" which I'm reporting because I thought it was interesting, rather > than a violation of the spirit behind the contract. > > -- > ais523 > >
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer ends contracts
C'mon, be honest Jason. You're objecting in self-interest. You've already admitted it. Evidence (Infinite Nomic's public #nomic channel): [image: IDontBelieveYou.PNG] I offer a deal: you admit here in the Agora lists that you indeed objected in self-interest (even if partially), then you yourself put up Jumblebeam for shredding. If then from that it does indeed become shredded, I'm totally open to shredding this Joe one (I'll collaborate and do what's needed to get rid of it, or otherwise neuter it somehow). Deal? On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 2:54 PM Jason Cobb via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On Wed, Sep 22, 2021, 1:36 AM Cuddle Beam via agora-business < > agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > OK, I agree with Jason and Telna. We should defend contracts with an idle > > player! Therefore: > > > > That's not my stance, and you know it. I moved to destroy the Joebeam deal > because it wasn't doing anything anyway, and because *you* didn't put an > exit condition in. I didn't want that hanging over Joe's head should e ever > return. > > The Jumblebeam deal is doing something: prohibiting you from using your > focus. You signed up for this with full knowledge, and it has an exit > clause. You shouldn't be able to escape the penalty for your previous focus > transfers. > > > > I create the following contract called Joevotes: > > -+- > > Cuddlebeam and Slam_Joe_Jr_Supreme are the only persons that can become > > members of this contract, and can do so by announcement. > > > > Cuddlebeam can act on behalf of Slam_Joe_Jr_Supreme to submit a ballot > with > > a vote of his (Cuddlebeam's) choice. Cuddlebeam can act on behalf of > > Slam_Joe_Jr_Supreme to cast a vote of his (Cuddlebeam's) choice. > Cuddlebeam > > can act on behalf of Slam_Joe_Jr_Supreme to activate Slam_Joe_Jr_Supreme. > > > > This is not okay. You're attempting to have a sockpuppet for literally > forever, assuming Joe doesn't ever start actually playing (and I doubt e > plans to if e agreed to this). > > > >
DIS: Re: BUS: FAGE
Hey, that's slander. I only supported that if women wanted to choose to dress in a more exposed way, I'd support that. Big fan of it. I said nothing about their role in society. Heck, men could also dress less conservatively too and I'd be enthusiastic about that as well. On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 10:50 AM Sarah S. via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > I publish the following writ of FAGE: Cuddlebeam's view of society is > essentially that women should stay in the kitchen, which is pretty uncool > of him! I disagree strongly enough with those views that I would rather not > play this game with him at this time, a stance that may change later, but > probably won't within the next 30 days! > > I should never have made the discord and talked about personal issues with > people, even though every single one of you is lovely and I'm honoured to > have met every one of you. > > As the registrar, I deregister myself. > > -- > R. Lee >
DIS: Re: BUS: Proposal about replies
My hopes aren't high that this will pass but it has my FOR On Sat, Sep 11, 2021 at 2:25 PM D. Wet via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > I propose to classify replies that reply above the replied message text > as INVALID and classify all emails that reply to an INVALID message as > INVALID as well. > -- > D. Wet > www.nomica.nl >
DIS: Re: BUS: [unofficial] Victory Card auction
INFORMAL AUCTION SUPREMACY On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 5:52 PM Kerim Aydin via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > I'm auctioning off my (1) Victory Card. This is an unofficial activity > (i.e. on my agoran goodfaithhonor to complete as might be expected unless > things go sideways - but no formal pledge/contract implied - winner gets a > promise in order to make the exchange). > > Minimum bid: 250 coins. > > Standard forward auction, except with above minimum bid and a hard end 7 > days after this message (or 4 days after last change of bids and this > message). > > -G. > >
DIS: Re: BUS: New Rule: Onboarding of Newly Activated Players
If I understand what you're alluding to here, no, because the truth of CfJs is evaluated according to the facts at the time of calling it. >From R591: "The valid judgements for an inquiry case are as follows, based on the facts and legal situation at the time the inquiry case was initiated, not taking into account any events since that time" On Mon, Aug 16, 2021 at 10:45 AM D. Wet via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > 15 aug. 2021 23:57:00 Aspen via agora-business > : > > > On Tue, Jul 27, 2021 at 9:31 AM D. Wet via agora-business > > wrote: > >> > >> I propose to create a new Rule in the Agoran commmunity to be adopted > >> according to the current rule adoption procedure. The Rule is: > >> > >> Onboarding of Newly Activated Players > >> > >> 1. Newly Activated Players MUST be requested to take their first > >> Action > >> in a timely fashion after being switched to Active. > >> > >> 2. Players that are Active less than one month MUST actively be > >> educated > >> when their Action is IMPOSSIBLE within the current Ruleset. > >> > >> 3. The education in referred to in 2. MUST contain references to N > >> specific Rules numbers as to why their Action is ILLEGAL within the > >> current Ruleset. N is at least 1 and at most 3 and NEED NOT to lead to > >> a > >> POSSIBLE Action when taken into account during the next try to act. > > > > I remove this proposal from the pool. This is a purely clerical action > > to clarify the gamestate, and you should feel to resubmit less > > ambiguously. > Doesn't this mean, together with the renouncement of Murphy as a judge, > that by Rule 2553 I have won the game? > -- > D. Wet > www.nomica.nl >
DIS: Signed Agoran Ruleset
I think this would be super awesome to have. A signed copy of the Agoran Ruleset! Snail mail is relatively cheap too, so is paper. I had in mind to print out several copies of the Ruleset, sign them all, then put them all into a single package and send it to the next person to sign them all. And they send it to the next, and so on, and the last person sends all of the fully-signed Rulesets to everyone else individually. This comes with a few challenges, though. These are the first that have come to mind to me: - In what format do we print the Ruleset? It's pretty huge, and would fit on about 60 pages if printed in regular size 12 and on A4s. We could cheat though and I just send copies of the cover page for us all to sign, and you guys then print the rest at home. Or we could go poster-size with tiny text, have the whole thing on one single sheet of paper/cardboard. - What if one person in the chain doesn't follow through and doesn't send the package to the next person?
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer creates a Big Opportunity
I've worded the miscalculation example pretty poorly lol. Basically we've had miscalculations held as true many times in the past. If you believed those miscalculations to still be true after being shown proof of how they're wrong, then you'd likely be called deluded. The thing is that, prior to the reveal, we had collectively held these 'deluded' ideas to be true. Incorrect things were magically true. On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 12:27 PM Cuddle Beam wrote: > I believe it does, though. > > If for example, a majority of us believes (or... pretends to, lol) that > 1+1=3, then for the purposes of the game, it is so. We've had wrong beliefs > be gamestate before, eg. all of our miscalculations over the years. Of > course, if given the evidence, you still believed so, you'd likely call > them to be deluded, > > but > > we have held these 'deluded' beliefs to be actual truth. It was magically > true. > > On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 3:09 AM Aspen via agora-discussion < > agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > >> On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 6:06 AM Cuddle Beam via agora-business >> wrote: >> > >> > I CFJ the following: >> > >> > "Be X the first Judge assigned to this CFJ, the entirety of the Ruleset >> > means the following: >> > >> > This is the Ruleset for the game of Agora nomic, and X is the sole >> player >> > of this game. X can change the Ruleset in any manner they desire by >> > publishing a sufficiently clear message detailing such changes to an >> Agoran >> > mailing list." >> >> Someone can say that the ruleset means whatever they like. It doesn't >> magically become true, even if they're a judge. A judgement has to be >> a plausible interpretation to have any precedential value. >> >> -Aspen >> >
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer creates a Big Opportunity
I believe it does, though. If for example, a majority of us believes (or... pretends to, lol) that 1+1=3, then for the purposes of the game, it is so. We've had wrong beliefs be gamestate before, eg. all of our miscalculations over the years. Of course, if given the evidence, you still believed so, you'd likely call them to be deluded, but we have held these 'deluded' beliefs to be actual truth. It was magically true. On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 3:09 AM Aspen via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 6:06 AM Cuddle Beam via agora-business > wrote: > > > > I CFJ the following: > > > > "Be X the first Judge assigned to this CFJ, the entirety of the Ruleset > > means the following: > > > > This is the Ruleset for the game of Agora nomic, and X is the sole player > > of this game. X can change the Ruleset in any manner they desire by > > publishing a sufficiently clear message detailing such changes to an > Agoran > > mailing list." > > Someone can say that the ruleset means whatever they like. It doesn't > magically become true, even if they're a judge. A judgement has to be > a plausible interpretation to have any precedential value. > > -Aspen >
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer creates a Big Opportunity [attn. Notary]
True! On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 11:16 PM Edward Murphy via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > Cuddlebeam wrote: > > > Interpretation basically has Power: infinity! > > Yeah, but it's basically also With Agoran Consent. >
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer creates a Big Opportunity [attn. Notary]
Oh, thanks! I didn't know about this. Will look into it! It seems similar but I believe that applying creative interpretation to say, the rules we have on interpretation itself, or the rules of how Appeals and CFJs work in the first place, could have more interesting consequences. Although it could just be a replay of Lindrum World. Interpretation basically has Power: infinity! On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 8:28 PM Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > On 7/25/2021 8:39 AM, Jason Cobb via agora-business wrote: > > On Sun, Jul 25, 2021, 9:06 AM Cuddle Beam via agora-business < > > agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > >> I CFJ the following: > >> > >> "Be X the first Judge assigned to this CFJ, the entirety of the Ruleset > >> means the following: > >> > >> This is the Ruleset for the game of Agora nomic, and X is the sole > player > >> of this game. X can change the Ruleset in any manner they desire by > >> publishing a sufficiently clear message detailing such changes to an > Agoran > >> mailing list." > >> > > > > I favour this case. > > > > I pledge that, if I am assigned this case, I will judge it FALSE. > > > > A previous version of this with lesser stakes, showing how it worked > through the system last time (including an initially-complicit judge, and > appeals): https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/?1346 > >
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer creates a Big Opportunity
I agree with that what you mention is a common interpretation of how the game should go. On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 4:31 PM Rebecca Lee via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > this entire game operates under basic norms that enshrine a set of > fundamental premises. even i\f these premises are contestable, we all agree > to uphold them for the purpose of a commonly constructed game. among those > premises is that text is almost always unambiguous and has a shared and > objective meaning and that we ought to follow the rules. of course it's > possible to make good arguments about the nature of ambiguity, or good > arguments that we ought not to follow the rules. but making those arguments > isn't fun and it isn't useful - just like asking why monopoly shouldn't be > played under chess rules in the middle of a game of monopoly > On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 11:57 PM Cuddle Beam via agora-discussion < > agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > Is that your *interpretation* of it? > > > > On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 3:37 PM Rebecca Lee via agora-discussion < > > agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > > > On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 11:06 PM Cuddle Beam via agora-business < > > > agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > > > > > I CFJ the following: > > > > > > > > "Be X the first Judge assigned to this CFJ, the entirety of the > Ruleset > > > > means the following: > > > > > > > > This is the Ruleset for the game of Agora nomic, and X is the sole > > player > > > > of this game. X can change the Ruleset in any manner they desire by > > > > publishing a sufficiently clear message detailing such changes to an > > > Agoran > > > > mailing list." > > > > > > > > > > The reason this doesn't work is because CFJs have no legal force > > whatsoever > > > under the ruleset - CFJs are just persuasive interpretations that are > de > > > facto but not de jure binding. > > > -- > > > From R. Lee > > > > > > > > -- > From R. Lee >
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer creates a Big Opportunity
Is that your *interpretation* of it? On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 3:37 PM Rebecca Lee via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 11:06 PM Cuddle Beam via agora-business < > agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > I CFJ the following: > > > > "Be X the first Judge assigned to this CFJ, the entirety of the Ruleset > > means the following: > > > > This is the Ruleset for the game of Agora nomic, and X is the sole player > > of this game. X can change the Ruleset in any manner they desire by > > publishing a sufficiently clear message detailing such changes to an > Agoran > > mailing list." > > > > The reason this doesn't work is because CFJs have no legal force whatsoever > under the ruleset - CFJs are just persuasive interpretations that are de > facto but not de jure binding. > -- > From R. Lee >
DIS: humble agoran farmer makes a request to the PM [Attn. Prime Minister]
Hi. I made a deal with seventeenmachine to get a Victory Card from them (it was one of those several Promises that were cashed but did nothing), but they seem to be MIA. Requesting an Emergency Regulation (which can transfer assets) to transfer 1 Victory Card from them to me to honor it. Thanks.
Re: DIS: Proto: Cabals
I don't believe we have enough players to make this work. BUT! What if we made this a Tournament! Compressing participation into a single hyped moment should be enough to make it work. On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 2:36 AM nix via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > On 6/15/21 7:13 PM, ais523 via agora-discussion wrote: > > The basic idea is to add an asymmetrical/political resource > > distribution mechanism with lots of tension (being in a large Cabal > > means it gets Cards to hand out, but it'll have to try to split them > > more ways; and different Cabals get to try out different ways to > > distribute the Cards they get, competing to try to attract players). > > > > We might want to remove some resource distribution mechanisms, or > > increase the cost in Products of some actions, in order to balance out > > the increased Card supply. > > Love this proto already. Assorted thoughts: > > Agree we might have to rethink how cards are gained if we do this. > > Players not in the cabalogarchy should get compensation, such as a > monthly product. > > I would tie the cabal award to the month rather than 30 days. That > matches with some other mechanical trends we have currently. > > Not sure what, if anything, discourages two cabals from cooperating here > to get more cards. > > Do we have enough active players to maintain 3 cabals and make them > dynamic? > > -- > nix > Webmastor, Ministor, Herald > > >
Re: DIS: Standing up, then crouching slightly
This is the closest we'll get to twerking on Agora On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 3:49 PM N. S. via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > I become interested in judging occasional CFJs > > -- > From R. Lee >
DIS: Re: BUS: Covering some bases
We should probably just routinely do this. On Tue, Jun 8, 2021 at 8:10 PM Jason Cobb via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > I object to all intents to declare Apathy. > > -- > Jason Cobb > > Assessor, Rulekeepor, Stonemason > >
DIS: Re: BUS: Birthday
Happy belated birthday! Please give me 2 boatloads of Coins. On Fri, Jun 4, 2021 at 5:25 PM Falsifian via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On Wed, Jun 02, 2021 at 11:51:37AM -0400, Jason Cobb via agora-business > wrote: > > It appears to be my Agoran Birthday once again. I'll just quote what I > > wrote last time, since it still applies: > > > > > This has been a great year, and I've had an unreasonable amount of fun > > > for sending and receiving messages to a mailing list. Thanks to > everyone > > > who has been a player for making this game what it is :). > > > > -- > > Jason Cobb > > Happy belated Birthday! I grant Jason 2 boatloads of Coins. > > -- > Falsifian >
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [thesis] Voting Thesis [attn. Herald]
CUDDLEBEAM #1 WOOHOO On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 8:25 PM Jason Cobb via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On 3/26/21 4:05 AM, Aris Merchant via agora-discussion wrote: > > On Sat, Mar 20, 2021 at 12:52 PM Aris Merchant > > wrote: > >>> I think that this thesis represents significant effort, at least enough > >>> for a Baccalaureate of Nomic. I do not know if it represents enough for > >>> a Doctorate, but if it is decided that that is the correct level, a > >>> D.N.Sci. seems most appropriate. These are thus my two suggestions. > >> > >> Agreed that those are really the two options here. It's a pity e > already has a Magisteriate, as that would probably have been the best fit > all around. As is, I'm slightly more inclined to round up than round down, > but I'm still thinking it through. > > Oh, for some peer review: most frequent co-authorship would also be an > > interesting measurement. > > > > -Aris > > > Good idea. > > Here are the raw stats (already had them calculated, but didn't write > them up): > > G.: 41 > Jason: 40 > Aris: 26 > Falsifian: 17 > nix: 17 > Trigon: 16 > twg: 15 > Alexis: 15 > Publius Scribonius Scholasticus: 13 > Gaelan: 10 > omd: 5 > Murphy: 5 > ais523: 4 > ATMunn: 3 > R. Lee: 2 > D. Margaux: 1 > Oerjan: 1 > Cuddle Beam: 1 > > -- > Jason Cobb > > Assessor, Rulekeepor, Stonemason > >
DIS: Re: BUS: I object.
Future? On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 11:46 PM Gaelan Steele via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > I object to all intents to declare apathy, current and future. > > Gaelan >
Re: DIS: humble agoran farmer auctions their Soul Stone [Auction]
GOOOING TWICEEE On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 8:39 PM Cuddle Beam wrote: > GOOOING ONCE > > *raises gavel* > > On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 1:47 AM Falsifian via agora-discussion < > agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > >> On Tue, Mar 02, 2021 at 07:46:42PM +0100, Cuddle Beam via >> agora-discussion wrote: >> > So, rather than tackling formal Auction rules, I'm just going to do the >> > 9000 IQ play of just running this informally. >> > >> > I'm auctioning my Soul Stone - it's fresh to be used too, which should >> add >> > to its value. It's the Stone that lets you steal other Stones! Pretty >> > awesome. >> > >> > I accept Coins but also VPs/Cards (at a rate of 100 coins per VP), or a >> > combination of the two. There is a minimum bid of 100 coins (or 1 VP). >> The >> > auction will be open for four days, and after that, it will close when >> the >> > last bid has been 48 hours ago, up to a maximum of a week. >> > >> > Please bid in this message thread as usual. Thanks for reading! >> >> I bid the minimum 100 Coins, assuming I'll get it still fresh and >> unused. >> >> -- >> Falsifian >> >
Re: DIS: humble agoran farmer auctions their Soul Stone [Auction]
GOOOING ONCE *raises gavel* On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 1:47 AM Falsifian via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On Tue, Mar 02, 2021 at 07:46:42PM +0100, Cuddle Beam via agora-discussion > wrote: > > So, rather than tackling formal Auction rules, I'm just going to do the > > 9000 IQ play of just running this informally. > > > > I'm auctioning my Soul Stone - it's fresh to be used too, which should > add > > to its value. It's the Stone that lets you steal other Stones! Pretty > > awesome. > > > > I accept Coins but also VPs/Cards (at a rate of 100 coins per VP), or a > > combination of the two. There is a minimum bid of 100 coins (or 1 VP). > The > > auction will be open for four days, and after that, it will close when > the > > last bid has been 48 hours ago, up to a maximum of a week. > > > > Please bid in this message thread as usual. Thanks for reading! > > I bid the minimum 100 Coins, assuming I'll get it still fresh and > unused. > > -- > Falsifian >
DIS: humble agoran farmer auctions their Soul Stone [Auction]
So, rather than tackling formal Auction rules, I'm just going to do the 9000 IQ play of just running this informally. I'm auctioning my Soul Stone - it's fresh to be used too, which should add to its value. It's the Stone that lets you steal other Stones! Pretty awesome. I accept Coins but also VPs/Cards (at a rate of 100 coins per VP), or a combination of the two. There is a minimum bid of 100 coins (or 1 VP). The auction will be open for four days, and after that, it will close when the last bid has been 48 hours ago, up to a maximum of a week. Please bid in this message thread as usual. Thanks for reading!
DIS: Re: BUS: Judiciary Four Thousand (contest)
I read this as "Juicy Four Thousand" My guess is uuH G.'s guess minus one second. Naively, 50% chance I beat him? On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 1:22 AM Kerim Aydin via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > [In honor of CFJ 3900, an unofficial contest] > > JUDICIARY FOUR THOUSAND > > When will CFJ 4000 be called? > > - Submit your guess to me (date/time in UTC, submit public or private). > > - Can update your guess, your latest entry is what counts. > > - Guesses close one week after CFJ 3925 is assigned. > > - Prize: something, I dunno what assets or game stuff will exist then. > > - My guess to beat: exactly 1 year from the stamp of this message. > > - Caveats: calling excess CFJs or other case manipulations is Bad Form (on > the Arbitor's part, so is manipulating CFJ IDs). Nothing in this email > shall be constituted as a contract, promise, pledge, or any other type > of binding Agoran agreement. > >
DIS: Re: BUS: Re: [Promise] Guess That Agoran!
Should we have rules for repeated guesses? I'm going to wait until others
have done 2 guesses before trying a third, personally.
On Mon, Feb 8, 2021 at 12:27 AM Bunny via agora-business <
agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> Note: just to be extra clear, I will reply only to the first correct guess.
> I will try to respond within about 12 hours.
>
> This message contains no actions.
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 9:49 AM Bunny wrote:
>
> > Under penalty of No Faking, I hereby affirm that I am a player.
> >
> > I grant the following promise to the Library:
> >
> > {
> > Name: Guess That Agoran
> > Text:
> >
> > Cashing conditions: The bearer has made a public message stating my
> > identity, and I have publicly confirmed that statement to be correct.
> >
> > I transfer 10 boatloads of coins to the bearer.
> > }
> >
> > I strongly discourage other players from doing either of the following:
> > - have everybody make public "not me" statements based on No Faking
> > - guessing every player
> >
> > I encourage, instead, that players discuss and try to use deduction to
> > figure out my identity.
> >
> > The point of this is to be a fun, harmless social experiment. If I've
> > set this up correctly, there should be nothing (at least, nothing
> > relevant) indeterminate and no CFJs necessary.
> >
>
DIS: Re: BUS: [Promise] Guess That Agoran!
I claim that the creator of the above promise is Aris
On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 8:33 PM Jason Cobb via agora-business <
agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> On 2/4/21 2:25 PM, Jason Cobb wrote:
> > On 2/4/21 12:49 PM, Bunny via agora-business wrote:
> >> Under penalty of No Faking, I hereby affirm that I am a player.
> >>
> >> I grant the following promise to the Library:
> >>
> >> {
> >> Name: Guess That Agoran
> >> Text:
> >>
> >> Cashing conditions: The bearer has made a public message stating my
> >> identity, and I have publicly confirmed that statement to be correct.
> >>
> >> I transfer 10 boatloads of coins to the bearer.
> >> }
> >>
> >> I strongly discourage other players from doing either of the following:
> >> - have everybody make public "not me" statements based on No Faking
> >> - guessing every player
> >>
> >> I encourage, instead, that players discuss and try to use deduction to
> >> figure out my identity.
> >>
> >> The point of this is to be a fun, harmless social experiment. If I've
> >> set this up correctly, there should be nothing (at least, nothing
> >> relevant) indeterminate and no CFJs necessary.
> >
> > I hereby guess Trigon.
> >
>
> To satisfy all the pedants out there: I claim that the creator of the
> above promise is Trigon.
>
> --
> Jason Cobb
>
> Assessor, Rulekeepor, Stonemason
>
>
DIS: Re: BUS: [Promise] Guess That Agoran!
We could probably run some kind of speech pattern analysis.
BUT YOLO I GUESS THAT IT'S JASON
SLOW CAREFUL ANALYSIS CAN'T BEAT BEING LUCKYYY
On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 6:49 PM Bunny via agora-business <
agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> Under penalty of No Faking, I hereby affirm that I am a player.
>
> I grant the following promise to the Library:
>
> {
> Name: Guess That Agoran
> Text:
>
> Cashing conditions: The bearer has made a public message stating my
> identity, and I have publicly confirmed that statement to be correct.
>
> I transfer 10 boatloads of coins to the bearer.
> }
>
> I strongly discourage other players from doing either of the following:
> - have everybody make public "not me" statements based on No Faking
> - guessing every player
>
> I encourage, instead, that players discuss and try to use deduction to
> figure out my identity.
>
> The point of this is to be a fun, harmless social experiment. If I've
> set this up correctly, there should be nothing (at least, nothing
> relevant) indeterminate and no CFJs necessary.
>
DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ 3893 judged FALSE
Proto: Make ISTIDing the default method for all CANs
On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 1:25 PM Gaelan Steele via agora-business <
agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> The question at hand is whether the Rulekeepor assigning rule numbers
> works. The caller argues that it doesn't, because the rules specify that e
> CAN do so but does not provide a method.
>
> This appears to last have been litigated in CFJ 2981.
>
> It was judged TRUE (i.e. rule numbers work) on a loophole in the wording.
> A follow-up proposal. P6992 by Murphy and omd, removed that loophole and
> attempted to make rule numbers work without it. The relevant parts of rule
> 2141 (now /14) haven't changed since.
>
> So legislative intent is very explicitly for this to work. Presumably, the
> authors expected this to work as follows (quoting from 2141/14):
>
> - "However, rules to the contrary notwithstanding, the Rulekeepor CAN set
> rule aspects as described elsewhere in this rule."
> - "Every rule shall have an ID number, distinct among current and former
> rules, to be assigned once by the Rulekeepor."
> - Therefore, the Rulekeepor CAN "assign" ID numbers to rules.
>
> The question, then, is whether this sufficiently specifies a method for
> setting the ID number. There's an argument to be made that the Rulekeepor
> "assigns" the ID when e publishes a ruleset containing that number. It's
> certainly tempting to go with the interpretation that makes the rules work,
> but I don't think I can justify this interpretation, for a few reasons:
>
> First, it's far from the only interpretation. Other reasonable readings of
> the ruleset would be that the rule gained the ID number as soon as the
> rulekeepor decides on the number, or that e must explicitly give rules
> numbers by announcement. It's hard to justify picking this interpretation
> over the others.
>
> Second, and more importantly, Agora has moved in recent times towards
> assuming CANs without methods do not work. This is in many ways a matter of
> game custom, but there have been some attempts to codify this custom, so
> I'll be considering legislative intent heavily here.
>
> This shift was codified in P7928, which caused Rule 2125/10 to read, in
> part: {
> A Restricted Action CAN only be performed as described by the Rules, and
> only using the methods explicitly specified in the Rules for performing the
> given action.
> }
>
> In a comment, the proposal explains that, after it's passing, "in general,
> "by announcement" is NOT implied". Sounds like we've got pretty clear
> evidence that this is the policy, right? Wrong. Enter everybody's favorite
> proposal, Statutory Instrumentation (8354). It rephrased the relevant
> provision to "including by limiting the methods to perform that action to
> those specified within it", notably dropping the word "explicit". The
> question then, is whether this was an intended weakening, or simply an
> insignificant rephrasing.
>
> Alexis, the author of 8354, was certainly aware of the significance of
> that word "explicit"; right in the middle of drafting of that proposal, e
> issued a judgement in CFJ 3793 that discusses at length the meaning of that
> word in 2125 (finding that, in a similar situation to the one we're dealing
> with today, an implied method was not enough).[^1] There was also a lot of
> discussion of this issue by other players at the time. However, there seems
> to have said anything about changes to this provision in Statutory
> Instrumentation, so it seems unlikely that Alexis intended to make a change
> here.
>
> Therefore, I find that game custom and the rules are clear that CANs
> without fairly explicit methods don't work. I find FALSE.
>
> So, what are the implications of this?
>
> Rule IDs are significant for two things: referring to rules, and
> last-resort precedence. For the former, I don't think there's an issue -
> each rule only has one purported number, so the references remain
> unambiguous and clear. For the latter, it's more of an issue, but I'm not
> aware if we've had any situations where this is relevant lately.
>
> [^1]: also, that CFJ has this magnificent sentence, which I can't not
> quote:
> In conclusion, this is a typical example of the rules say I do without
> saying how, therefore I do, which has plagued Agora for a long time
> but possibly not for as long as I say I do, therefore I do has.
>
> Gaelan
>
> ---
>
> Evidence:
>
> Proposal 6992 (Democratic, AI=3.0) by Murphy
> (coauth: omd)
> Fix rule numbers
>
> Ratify all rule ID numbers in the document purported to be the
> Short Logical Ruleset and published on or about Thu, 3 Mar 2011
> 14:40:44 -0500.
>
> Amend Rule 2140 (Power Controls Mutability) by replacing "modify"
> with "set or modify".
>
> Amend Rule 2141 (Role and Attributes of Rules) by replacing this
> text:
>
> Rules have ID numbers, to be assigned by the Rulekeepor, and are
> strictly ordered.
>
> Every rule shall have a title to aid in identification. If a
> rule
DIS: Re: BUS: a hobbit-style birthday [attn. Treasuror]
Happy birthday G.!! (Please give me coins) On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 2:35 AM Kerim Aydin via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > On 2/3/2021 5:04 PM, Falsifian via agora-business wrote: > > On Wed, Feb 03, 2021 at 04:55:33PM -0800, Kerim Aydin via agora-business > wrote: > >> > >> On 2/3/2021 4:47 PM, Jason Cobb via agora-business wrote: > >>> On 2/3/21 7:30 PM, Kerim Aydin via agora-business wrote: > That's right! It's missing a 'by announcement'. No coins for me. > I've > got lots. So this will be a hobbit-style birthday party for those > who attend. > > Cheers, > G. > > >>> > >>> Happy birthday! > >>> > >>> I transfer G. twenty coins. > >>> > >> > >> Thank you so much for coming! I give three boatloads of coins to Jason. > >> > >> [to be clear, I'm not insulting Jason's sentiment by returning eir > >> thoughtful gift! the boatloads were the pre-planned 'hobbit style' > >> birthday, they're in little packets already tied with a bow, over there > >> near the wine table]. > > > > Coolest birthday party ever! > > > > Happy birthday! > > > > Well, thanks! Really glad you could make it. > I give three boatloads of coins to Falsifian. > >
DIS: Re: BUS: Weak Pledges
I see you're going to try to farm Justice Cards with my technique too lmao (This seems like a better version too, I didn't know that you could Class-0 Crime via Oathbreaking) On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 9:22 PM nix via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > I pledge, on penalty of Class 0 Oathbreaking, to publish my reports by > the end of the week. > > -- > nix > Webmastor, Ministor, Herald > > >
Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3894 Assigned to Jason
I find it fascinating how inner mental states (or more accurately, the
perception others have of them) can affect the outcome of winning or not.
On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 1:34 AM Jason Cobb via agora-discussion <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> On 1/24/21 6:43 PM, Kerim Aydin via agora-official wrote:
> > === CFJ 3894
> ===
> >
> > The first statement in this message constitutes a breach of R2471
> > "No Faking".
> >
> >
> ==
>
>
> Draft judgment in CFJ 3894:
>
> Evidence:
>
> {
>
>
> Rule 2471/1 (Power=1)
> No Faking
>
> A person SHALL NOT make a public statement that is a lie. A
> statment is a lie if its publisher either knew or believed it to
> be not to be true at the time e published it (or, in the case of
> an action, not to be effective), and it was made with the intent
> to mislead. Merely quoting a statement does not constitute making
> it for the purposes of this rule. Any disclaimer, conditional
> clause, or other qualifier attached to a statement constitutes
> part of the statement for the purposes of this rule; the truth or
> falsity of the whole is what is significant.
>
> The previous provisions of this rule notwithstanding, a formal
> announcement of intent is never a lie.
>
>
>
> }
>
>
> Arguments:
>
> {
>
> The first statement in the message is "This statement is a lie and I
> intend to mislead with it." There are two components to this statement.
> The first is "This statement is a lie". This is clearly an attempt at a
> paradox. However, because the Rules define the meaning of "lie", it may
> not be one. To determine whether the statement is a lie, the two part
> test in Rule 2471 must be applied. First, Cuddlebeam must have known or
> believed it "to be not to be true". That is nonsense, but is easily
> adjusted to mean that e believed it "not to be true". Cuddlebeam clearly
> believed this part of the statement to be a paradox (based on off-list
> discussion and the fact that it very much resembles the liar's paradox),
> which is not a factually true statement.
>
> This violates the law of the excluded middle, but there is Rules-based
> precedent for this: CFJ judgments. Neither TRUE nor FALSE is not an
> appropriate judgment if PARADOXICAL is. This supports finding that a
> statement which the publisher believes to be paradoxical is one e
> believes to "not be true".
>
> Cuddlebeam's statement "This statement is a lie and I intend to mislead
> with it." E believed part of the statement not to be true, therefore e
> believed the entire statement not to be true. The next question is
> whether e intended to mislead by publishing the statement. I find that e
> did not, since e explicitly noted e might receive a No Faking sentence
> for publishing the above statement.
>
> Cuddlebeam's statement was a lie, but e did not intend to mislead with
> it. Judged FALSE.
>
> }
>
> --
> Jason Cobb
>
> Assessor, Rulekeepor, Stonemason
>
>
DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer plays russian roulette with GOD
nvm I just remembered that the intent to mislead is crucial to No Faking lol On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 9:34 AM Cuddle Beam wrote: > A grat. argument: > > By the law of excluded third, I either intend to mislead with that > statement, or I do not. We don't need to know which stance of those two I > hold because in both cases it collapses into a paradox. > > > > On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 3:03 AM nix via agora-business < > agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > >> >> On 1/22/21 3:53 PM, Cuddle Beam via agora-business wrote: >> > This statement is a lie and I intend to mislead with it. >> > >> > That's right. I said it. >> > >> > I CfJ: The first statement in this message constitutes a breach of R2471 >> > "No Faking" >> > >> > I guess I'm maybe vulnerable to a Finger Pointing right now and getting >> > shot in the head with a blot but that's a tiny risk I'm willing to take. >> >> Argument against: There's no intent to mislead. CB is speaking >> untruthfully about that being the intent, as evidenced by the fact that in >> the rest of the message e openly acknowledges that people may see it as >> untrue. >> >> -- >> nix >> Webmastor, Ministor, Herald >> >> >>
DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer plays russian roulette with GOD
A grat. argument: By the law of excluded third, I either intend to mislead with that statement, or I do not. We don't need to know which stance of those two I hold because in both cases it collapses into a paradox. On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 3:03 AM nix via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > On 1/22/21 3:53 PM, Cuddle Beam via agora-business wrote: > > This statement is a lie and I intend to mislead with it. > > > > That's right. I said it. > > > > I CfJ: The first statement in this message constitutes a breach of R2471 > > "No Faking" > > > > I guess I'm maybe vulnerable to a Finger Pointing right now and getting > > shot in the head with a blot but that's a tiny risk I'm willing to take. > > Argument against: There's no intent to mislead. CB is speaking > untruthfully about that being the intent, as evidenced by the fact that in > the rest of the message e openly acknowledges that people may see it as > untrue. > > -- > nix > Webmastor, Ministor, Herald > > >
DIS: Re: BUS: [Proposal] Strengthening Extra Votes
"Also the Buying Strength cap is gone."
This feels pretty dangerous. Couldn't one single player (or a very small
group of them) could force any proposal through?
On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 4:02 AM Reuben Staley via agora-business <
agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> On 1/21/21 6:56 PM, nix via agora-business wrote:
> > On 1/21/21 7:47 PM, nix via agora-business wrote:
> >> TODO: The thing about getting a reward for having the most strength on
> >> a decision in a given week.
> >
> > Oops, forgot to delete this line. I withdraw Strengthening Extra Votes.
> > I submit but pendn't the following proposal:
> >
> > {
> >
> > Title: Strengthening Extra Votes 1.1
> > Adoption index: 3.0
> > Author: nix
> > Co-authors:
> >
> > [
> > This proposal does three things:
> >
> > * Removes all passive Voting Strength bonuses. They rarely make a
> > difference and I don't think I've ever seen someone intentionally use
> > them.
>
> I understand that these don't actually affect all that many proposals,
> but let the record show that I will be exceedingly sad to see this
> mechanic go.
>
> > * Strengthens Extra Votes. Now they apply to all decisions within a
> > voting period. This just makes them feel nicer to use. Also the
> Buying
> > Strength cap is gone.
> >
> > * Adds a weekly reward for having the highest strength. So there's
> > incentive to consider using them even when you're not trying to force
> > through/sink a proposal.
> > ]
> >
> > Amend R2422, "Voting Strength" by replacing:
> >
> > A player CAN Buy Strength by paying 1 Extra Vote and specifying a
> > current Agoran decision on which e is a voter. For each time a
> > player has Bought Strength on a decision, eir voting strength is
> > 1 greater on that decision. If the decision is on a proposal, and
> > the proposal's chamber and the player's focus are the same value,
> > then eir voting strength is instead 2 greater on that decision.
> > A player CANNOT Buy Strength for the same decision more than 3
> > times.
> >
> > with:
> >
> > A player CAN Buy Strength by paying 1 Extra Vote. A player's
>
> Nitpick: can we please use rules-defined words for transfers within the
> rules? I would prefer either "pay a fee of" or "destroy" in this context.
>
> > Voting Strength on an Agoran Decision is 1 greater for every time
> > e Bought Strength during that decision's voting period.
> >
> >
> > Amend R2645, "The Stones", by replacing:
> >
> > - Power Stone (weekly, 40%): A specified player hereby buys
> > strength 3 times on a specified unresolved Agoran decision.
> >
> > with:
> >
> > - Power Stone (weekly, 40%): A specified player hereby Buys
> > Strength 3 times.
> >
> > Repeal R2637, "Office Interests"
> >
> > Enact a new Power 1 rule titled "Strongest Voter Privilege" with them
> > following text:
> >
> > The sole player, if any, who had the highest voting strength
> among
> > all votes cast on all decisions resolved in the last 7 days CAN
> > once grant emself a Voting Card by announcement.
> >
> > }
> >
>
>
> --
> Trigon
>
> ¸¸.•*¨*• Play AGORA QUEST
>
> I’m always happy to become a party to contracts.
> I LOVE SPAGHETTI
> transfer Jason one coin
> nch was here
> I hereby
> don't... trust... the dragon...
> don't... trust... the dragon...
> Do not Construe Jason's message with subject TRIGON as extending this
>
DIS: Re: BUS: [Contract] friendly neighborhood notary sells eir belongings
I bid 76 on victory On Thursday, January 21, 2021, Aris Merchant via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 1:46 PM Cuddle Beam via agora-business < > agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > I withdraw all coins from my Locker. > > > > I bid 75 each on Legislative and Victory. > > > -Aris >
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer greets Nietzsche
Or maybe even a contract where one person can just do all of them for all
interested parties.
On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 6:33 PM Cuddle Beam wrote:
> Hm, you have a point. I could do it as just a signature kind of thing
> though. Same amount of messages, no spam, and it achieves the effect I'm
> looking for.
>
> On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 5:17 PM nix via agora-discussion <
> agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:
>
>> On 1/18/21 10:13 AM, Cuddle Beam wrote:
>> > Yes, I agree entirely. Which is why I mentioned that I should just do
>> > this frequently ("in between reports").
>>
>> Seems pretty rude. If everyone adopted this strategy, it would just be
>> constant spam.
>>
>> --
>> nix
>>
>> Webmastor, Ministor, Herald
>>
>>
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer greets Nietzsche
Hm, you have a point. I could do it as just a signature kind of thing
though. Same amount of messages, no spam, and it achieves the effect I'm
looking for.
On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 5:17 PM nix via agora-discussion <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> On 1/18/21 10:13 AM, Cuddle Beam wrote:
> > Yes, I agree entirely. Which is why I mentioned that I should just do
> > this frequently ("in between reports").
>
> Seems pretty rude. If everyone adopted this strategy, it would just be
> constant spam.
>
> --
> nix
>
> Webmastor, Ministor, Herald
>
>
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer greets Nietzsche
Yes, I agree entirely. Which is why I mentioned that I should just do this
frequently ("in between reports").
On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 3:50 PM nix via agora-discussion <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:
>
>
> On 1/18/21 4:45 AM, Cuddle Beam via agora-business wrote:
> > What I'm going to do here might seem weird, and it heavily involves a
> > perspectivistic view on nomic. Basically, while the Ruleset's text may
> not
> > change, our understanding of it may, which may drastically change how
> past
> > actions have 'actually' worked. So I'm just doing an action/s that - in
> our
> > current understanding of the rules - does nothing. That's fine to do,
> > right? But if our understanding changes in the future, and in my favor, I
> > could go "oh well, I actually won then, didn't I?"
> >
> > So, yeah I intend to piggy-back on some possible future argument that
> would
> > make what I'm doing, actually work. I don't know what such an argument
> may
> > be, but I don't need to, obviously.
> Even if there comes a time when we retroactively agree this worked (not
> really what perspectivism is about to my mind...), if that time comes
> after the relevant gamestate matters have been ratified (via reports)
> then it won't matter.
>
> --
> nix Webmastor, Ministor, Herald
>
>
DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran far-AHOY mateys, let's loot and parley [Pirates]
fug On Sun, Jan 17, 2021 at 9:03 PM Reuben Staley via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On 1/16/21 5:22 PM, Cuddle Beam via agora-business wrote: > > I intend to transfer all coins from the Lost and Found, to the Plunder > > Partnership, without objection. > > I object. > > -- > Trigon > > ¸¸.•*¨*• Play AGORA QUEST > > I’m always happy to become a party to contracts. > I LOVE SPAGHETTI > transfer Jason one coin > nch was here > I hereby > don't... trust... the dragon... > don't... trust... the dragon... > Do not Construe Jason's message with subject TRIGON as extending this >
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Proposal] Personhood Revisited
This is going to become a scam shitshow. And it will be glorious.
On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 2:44 AM Aris Merchant via agora-discussion <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 12, 2021 at 5:33 PM nix via agora-discussion
> wrote:
> >
> > On 1/12/21 7:18 PM, nix via agora-business wrote:
> > >
> > > I submit, but do not pend, the following proposal:
> > >
> > > {
> > > Title: Personhood Revisited
> > > Power: 3.0
> > > Author: nix
> > > Co-Authors: Gaelan, Aris
> > >
> > > Amend R869 by replacing:
> > >
> > > Any entity that is or ever was an organism generally capable of
> > > freely originating and communicating independent thoughts and
> > > ideas is a person. Rules to the contrary notwithstanding, no
> other
> > > entities are persons.
> > >
> > > with:
> > >
> > > Every intelligence is a person. A group of persons can elect to
> > > create a composite person, which is in eirself a person for all
> > > Agoran purposes. A person cannot become a player if e is part
> of a
> > > composite person that is already a player. A composite person
> > > cannot become a player if any part of em is already a player. A
> > > person does not ever cease to be a person for the purposes of
> > > Agora.
> > >
> > > [This reworks and combines versions put forth by both Aris and Gaelan.]
> > > }
> > >
> > > --
> > > nix Webmastor, Ministor, Herald
> > >
> >
> > It occurred to me too late that this provides a workaround to the
> > deregistration lock out, so I may put forth another version that also
> > amends that to account for composite persons.
> >
> > Anyway, looking forward to any feedback.
>
>
> Without offense, nix, I think mine is better in basically every way.
> Gaelan's was supposed to be lighter weight than mine — by merging
> ours, you've landed up with something that's actually more complex
> than mine (or, as complex, at the very least). Here's my current
> draft:
>
> {
> Title: Personhood
> Adoption index: 3.0
> Author: Aris
> Co-authors: Trigon, nix, G., Jason, ATMunn
>
>
> Amend Rule 869, "How to Join and Leave Agora", by replacing:
>
> Any entity that is or ever was an organism generally capable of
> freely originating and communicating independent thoughts and
> ideas is a person. Rules to the contrary notwithstanding, no other
> entities are persons.
>
> with:
>
> Every intelligence is a person. A group of intelligences may also
> elect to form a single person, as long as each intelligence only plays as
> one person at a time; this provision shall be interpreted
> with deference towards the good-faith of the parties and the customs of
> honorable play. Additionally, a former person is always considered a
> person.
> Rules to the contrary notwithstanding, only the entities
> described above are persons.
> }
>
> In particular, "this provision shall be interpreted with deference
> towards the good-faith of the parties and the customs of honorable
> play." helps defuse a lot of the potential problems that might
> otherwise arise.
>
>
> -Aris
>
DIS: Re: BAK: AGORA QUEST
Sending this to the usual mailing list for convenience! On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 8:21 PM Falsifian wrote: > On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 03:35:36PM +0200, Cuddle Beam wrote: > > [image: imagen.png] > > > > "So, what kind of scam has happened here?" you ask TOP HAT MAN. > > > > "Oh. Yeah, pretty standard stuff. In AgoraBall, you could 'pass a ball > to a > > player'. She passed everyone else's ball to herself - it's 'a ball', > after > > all, and she's 'a player'. We shouldn't have missed that, but we did. She > > was pretty close to achieving a win, but thankfully we got to stop her > > before she did." > > > > [image: imagen.png] > > > > "My most gracious salutations to you mister ARBITOR, and in additament, > > this individual which is not one which my personage is familiarized with. > > Beautiful greetings to you, I'm MAGNUS GLORIOUS. DISTRIBUTOR for the > Agoran > > nomic, at your humblest service." an Agoran then mentions, butting in a > bit > > in your conversation with TOP HAT MAN. He was wearing sunglasses and a > > fancy jacket over his shoulders. > > > > "Oh, hello MAGNUS. What is it?" > > > > "Well, as you may perceive sir, I would relish to put forwards for your > > consideration this PROTOSAL of my own. I'm sure that an esteemed > individual > > such as yourself could provide feedback and insights of utmost value." > > > > [image: imagen.png] > > "Ah, hm. It's good." TOP HAT MAN mentioned, skimming through it, then > > finding more behind the schemata he was looking at. "Oh. There are more > > slides?" > > > > "Fifteen, sir." > > > > "Oh. Hm. We could perhaps, uhm. How do I say this. Trim it down, a bit? I > > think a couple of things here could be... rephrased. Shortened." > > > > "On the contrary my finest sir, I believe it integrates a much needed > > solidity, robustness, fortitude to this here structural concern. This > here > > is what we require to forfend ourselves from future and forthcoming > > shenanigans of the categorization of kind that have been recently > performed > > by the miss LADY CATASTROVANIA." > > > > "But to repair the scam that CAT did, we don't need all of this. If > > anything, it might add more scams." TOP HAT MAN advises. > > > > "Indeed it might be so, but I raise you this: have you seen any scams in > my > > this here protosal?" > > > > "No, not really." > > > > "See? Then there is no issue, sir." > > > > TOP HAT MAN then sips air through his teeth. "Yeah, but..." > > > > "Alright, alright. Hold open your ears for this, I've got a mental > > conception that might be of both of our satisfaction. I'll put both of > > these up and upon for distribution, and our most honorable Agorans can > > adjudicate via their own hearts and minds on this dilemma." > > > > "Fine. I'm sure many Agorans want to get a WIN somehow already, so we > might > > as well get this over with." TOP HAT MAN concludes > > > > [image: imagen.png] > > > > > > - Vote for TOP HAT MAN's Proposal to fix Agoraball. It's simpler, > shorter, > > but it only covers Lady Cat's scam and what seem to be some other smaller > > polishes in other places, but it should keep Agoraball simple to > understand > > and play for you. > > - Vote for MAGNUS GLORIOUS' Proposal to fix Agoraball. It's heavily > > bureaucratic, redundant, and very technically-worded. It is likely more > > robust and safer from scams, but it's going to be more difficult for a > > player of your experience to reach a competitive level in comparison to > > other, more fluent and veteran Agorans. > > - (Write in) > > I transfer 10 Coins to Cuddlebeam as payment for the below vote. > > Write in: Quietly suggest to MAGNUS GLORIUS that they insert a loophole > into eir proposal letting you both win. Then you'll vote for it. (E.g. > they could revise it on the pretense of some minor issue they just > noticed.) > > -- > Falsifian > ___ > Agora mailing list > ag...@listserver.tue.nl > https://listserver.tue.nl/mailman/listinfo/agora >
Re: DIS: Plans to Deregister
Merry Christmas PSS! I hope the best for you, and thank you for all of your contributions to nomic! I really appreciate them. I'll cherish your reports, and the time we spent as co-conspirators on Blognomic. You were the first person I had ever allied with! The mischief together was such a fun experience. Thank you! On Fri, Dec 25, 2020 at 6:07 PM nix via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > On 12/25/20 10:10 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via > agora-discussion wrote: > > Merry Christmas to those who celebrate it! > > > > Every year in December, I take the opportunity to evaluate what I have > > been doing in the past year and make plans for the new year. This year, > > I've decided that continuing as a player isn't in line with my > > priorities for next year. I've been continuously involved in nomic for > > over five years, and I'm very thankful for everything that it and my > > fellow players have taught me. I'm sure that I'll return eventually, > > possibly even later next year, but next weekend, I will be deregistering. > > > > I wanted to give advance notice, so that others can plan to take my > > offices. > > > > Happy holidays from your friend in nomic, > > Publius > Sad to see you go, but happy that it seems to be on your own terms. > You've been a great member of the community, and I've definitely > appreciated your dedication and even-handed play-style. Enjoy your > holiday season and your time away from nomic. And know that we'll always > be happy to see you if you decide to return, or even just check in. > Thank you, and goodbye (for now). > > -- > Webmastor, Ministor > > >
DIS: Re: BUS: [Notice of Honour] Wait! Wait! I'm still using it!
It was a very fun 27 minutes though On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 5:30 PM Lucidiot via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On 19/11/2020 17:03, Cuddle Beam via agora-business wrote: > > > > Wait, wait! We can go full circle! > > > > This is a Notice of Honor > > > > +1 Falsifan (because I want to go the whole round around) > > -1 Lucidiot (because this is a sacrifice I am willing to take) > > > > Now we're back to where we started. > > > > Heh. > > This is a Notice of Honour: > > +1 Falsifian (for honouring me) > -1 CuddleBeam (for dishonouring me) > > -- > ~lucidiot > >
DIS: Re: BUS: Recognizing our Roboticist General
i support On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 3:53 AM Reuben Staley via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On 10/18/20 4:35 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via agora-business > wrote: > > I intend, with 2 Agoran Consent, to award Jason the patent title of > > Roboticist General in recognition of eir technical services to Agora. > > > > I support. > > -- > Trigon > > ¸¸.•*¨*• Play AGORA QUEST > > I’m always happy to become a party to contracts. > I LOVE SPAGHETTI > transfer Jason one coin > nch was here > I hereby > don't... trust... the dragon... > don't... trust... the dragon... > Do not Construe Jason's message with subject TRIGON as extending this >
DIS: Re: BUS: Cuddlebeam Degree Intent
woohoo On Monday, October 19, 2020, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via agora-business wrote: > On 10/11/20 1:29 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via agora-business > wrote: > > Having not received any further feedback, I intend with 2 Agoran Consent > > to award Cuddlebeam the degree, Associate of Nomic Artistry, for the > > images available at: https://imgur.com/a/VDAQaae > > > > I do so with much support and no objections. > > -- > > Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, Herald, Referee, Tailor, Pirate > Champion, Badge of the Great Agoran Revival, Badge of the Salted Earth >
DIS: Re: BUS: AGORA QUEST
nvm I just noticed the promise from G lmao On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 7:41 PM Cuddle Beam wrote: > I'm confused at what you're doing here lol. > > On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 6:14 PM nix via agora-business < > agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > >> On 10/15/20 2:45 AM, Cuddle Beam via agora-business wrote: >> > "Also, it's dangerous to go out alone, so take this." he then tells >> you. He >> > gives you a WELCOMING PACKAGE. It has 10 MONEYS and 1 GEM. Nice. >> > >> > - 'Register' again to clear doubts about if you are registered at all or >> > not (although the exact time of registration is still ambiguous). >> > - Steal the TOP HAT from TOP HAT MAN >> > - Go DEBATE with the other Agorans >> > - (Write-in) >> >> I transfer a ROLL INITIATIVE promise from the library to myself, and >> cash it, specifying "~~carefully read~~ skim the rules for a sweet scam". >> >> -- >> nix >> Webmastor >> >>
DIS: Re: BUS: AGORA QUEST
I'm confused at what you're doing here lol. On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 6:14 PM nix via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On 10/15/20 2:45 AM, Cuddle Beam via agora-business wrote: > > "Also, it's dangerous to go out alone, so take this." he then tells you. > He > > gives you a WELCOMING PACKAGE. It has 10 MONEYS and 1 GEM. Nice. > > > > - 'Register' again to clear doubts about if you are registered at all or > > not (although the exact time of registration is still ambiguous). > > - Steal the TOP HAT from TOP HAT MAN > > - Go DEBATE with the other Agorans > > - (Write-in) > > I transfer a ROLL INITIATIVE promise from the library to myself, and > cash it, specifying "~~carefully read~~ skim the rules for a sweet scam". > > -- > nix > Webmastor > >
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: AGORA QUEST
Per update On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 11:19 PM Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via agora-discussion wrote: > On 10/14/20 5:16 PM, Cuddle Beam via agora-business wrote: > > I pledge the following: I'll run AGORA QUEST according to the stuff > > described below. > > > > Hey, welcome to AGORA QUEST. This is an interactive story - you pay me 10 > > coins along what you want the protagonist to do, and I'll count it as a > > vote (voting, woo! nomic!!) and then when I have time to continue this, > > I'll tally the votes and progress the story based on that. I'll tiebreak > if > > there are any ties. Also, you only get to vote once between updates. > > > > For your vote, you can choose one of the options I give you in the vein > of > > those Choose-Your-Adventure books, or you can just make up your own. > > > > [image: image.png] > > > > You're a new PLAYER in AGORA! A fresh, sparkling feeling of EXCITEMENT > > fills you and in your naivety, you are yet not OVERWHELMED by the > RULESET. > > > > So, what do you do? > > > > - Go look at what that bottomless pit marked "CFJ ARCHIVES" is all about. > > - Check out "OFF:", whatever that is. > > - Look for other Agorans and what they're doing. > > - (Write-in) > > > > Is it 10 coins per update or just to buy in? > > -- > > Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, Herald, Referee, Tailor, Pirate > Champion, Badge of the Great Agoran Revival, Badge of the Salted Earth >
DIS: Re: BUS: Cuddlebeam Degree Intent
Thank you very much everyone for your support 🙏 On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 8:23 PM Aris Merchant via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 11:14 AM ATMunn via agora-business < > agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > On 10/13/2020 2:06 PM, Falsifian via agora-business wrote: > > > On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 01:29:38PM -0400, Publius Scribonius > > Scholasticus via agora-business wrote: > > >> Having not received any further feedback, I intend with 2 Agoran > Consent > > >> to award Cuddlebeam the degree, Associate of Nomic Artistry, for the > > >> images available at: https://imgur.com/a/VDAQaae > > > > > > I support. > > > > > I support. > > > I support. > > -Aris > > > > > >
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Petition for Patent Title for Jason [attn. Herald]
this is it before you know it, we'll have bots that are able to parse natural language like in the animes and that they will be used to automatically find scams in the ruleset and argue CfJs agora will become a court of bots, not people the automation apocalypse is nigh, NIGH! On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 8:11 PM Falsifian via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 01:22:27PM -0400, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus > via agora-business wrote: > > On 10/8/20 9:33 PM, Aris Merchant via agora-business wrote: > > > Jason has provided valuable tech support to Agora for a long time. E > > > has hosted the MUD, as well as designing and hosting AgoraBot, which, > > > among its many wonderful features, links the Agora Nomic Chat Server > > > and the #nomic IRC discussion forum. > > > > > > In recognition of eir proven willingness and ability to provide > > > technical services to Agora, I petition the H. Herald to award Jason a > > > patent title. A few suggestions would be something like "Tech Lord", > > > "Bot Master", or "Roboticist General". > > > > > > -Aris > > > > > > > This is an official response to this petition. What about Distributor > > Honorary? If people don't like that, I'm happy to go with Roboticist > > General, but I think that Distributor Honorary would tie it into a > > tradition of technical service. > > > > -- > > > > Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, Herald, Referee, Tailor, Pirate > > Champion, Badge of the Great Agoran Revival, Badge of the Salted Earth > > I think e should get some title. I don't have strong opinions about which. > Roboticist General has a nice ring to it but on the other hand I think > we're > recognizing more than just eir work on AgoraBot. > > -- > Falsifian >
DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: i didn't miss my agoran birthday
fun fact: trigo is wheat in spanish, and a suffix to underline how big/impressive something is, is "-ón", so trigon (well, trigón) would be like BIG WHEAT or something lmao i grant BIG WHEAT 3 coins On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 1:54 AM Aris Merchant via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 1:06 PM Jason Cobb via agora-business < > agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > On 9/24/20 3:37 PM, Reuben Staley via agora-official wrote: > > > > > Thank you to ATMunn for reminding me to check the birthdays list. It is > > > > > my Agoran Birthday for the next few hours. > > > > > > > > > > > > Happy birthday, Trigon! > > > > > > > > I grant Trigon 3 coins. > > > > > > > > I cause Baron von Vanderham to grant Trigon 3 coins. > > > > I grant Trigon 3 coins. On behalf of Telnaior, Telnaior grants Trigon 3 > coins. > > -Aris >
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Intent to Begin Nomaoic
(once you have a totally reliable majority cabal, the game is under your total control anyways, you just monopolize what proposals pass and what not) On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 6:18 PM Cuddle Beam wrote: > It's not guaranteed if another group does the random roll instead and the > bonds of a majority cabal aren't strong enough. Although once you have a > totally reliable cabal that is majority-sized, then yes, it's better to go > for your option. > > On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 6:14 PM nix via agora-discussion < > agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > >> On 9/2/20 11:10 AM, Cuddle Beam wrote: >> > Having a sole winner doesn't solve the problem imo, you could just >> > make that one of the team players selected at random achieve a win >> > (which is quicker than the 2-proposal one and if done, it's too fast >> > for anything slower to work). >> >> Quicker in legal mechanics but sounds a lot more difficult to convince >> people of. I don't think I'd join a 1 in 4 chance if I was also offered >> a slightly slower but guaranteed win. >> >> -- >> nix >> Prime Minister, Webmastor >> >> >>
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Intent to Begin Nomaoic
It's not guaranteed if another group does the random roll instead and the bonds of a majority cabal aren't strong enough. Although once you have a totally reliable cabal that is majority-sized, then yes, it's better to go for your option. On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 6:14 PM nix via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On 9/2/20 11:10 AM, Cuddle Beam wrote: > > Having a sole winner doesn't solve the problem imo, you could just > > make that one of the team players selected at random achieve a win > > (which is quicker than the 2-proposal one and if done, it's too fast > > for anything slower to work). > > Quicker in legal mechanics but sounds a lot more difficult to convince > people of. I don't think I'd join a 1 in 4 chance if I was also offered > a slightly slower but guaranteed win. > > -- > nix > Prime Minister, Webmastor > > >
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Intent to Begin Nomaoic
Having a sole winner doesn't solve the problem imo, you could just make that one of the team players selected at random achieve a win (which is quicker than the 2-proposal one and if done, it's too fast for anything slower to work). On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 5:07 PM nix via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On 9/2/20 9:51 AM, Gaelan Steele via agora-discussion wrote: > > > > OK, so here's what's going on: I received a proposal along the lines of > "these players get 100 points. They all win." I won't reveal the names or > number of these players for obvious reasons, but, at the point when it > happened, it was exactly enough players to pass a proposal… as long as > Cuddlebeam's NttPF registration didn't count. To be honest, I'm pretty > disappointed—it's a very early and unsatisfying end, *and* it relies on > someone accidentally sending a message NttPF, which IMO is rather > unsportsmanlike. I have several options in front of me, and I'd like some > advice on where to go. > > > > 1) I could end the game, declaring these players as winners and giving > up on the tournament. This is the most "technically correct" option, but > also the most disappointing for me and other people that actually wanted to > try playing this. But perhaps the fact that this was the first proposal is > a pretty good indication that the idea wasn't that workable in the first > place. > > 2) I could do that, then start another free tournament. If I did so, I'd > probably add a rule that exactly one player could win—I think the ability > to declare multiple winners makes a bit of a mess of the incentives in a > nomic like this. This has the advantage of giving the players their > (somewhat) deserved win, but gives us another opportunity at actually > playing this. The disadvantage is that it might cheapen both the tournament > victory and (through the proliferation of free tournaments) Agoran wins as > a whole. > > 3) As above, but with an entirely unofficial tournament, played on DIS > or on another forum entirely. > > 4) Find some way to wiggle out of the win, probably by ruling that > CuddleBeam's registration succeeded. I have fairly large latitude over the > adjudication of the rules, but even so, this might be a bit of a stretch; I > think the two options would be to rule that "public" means something other > than what it means in an Agoran context, or to use my ability to > arbitrarily reconcile errors made in adjudication (I already recorded > Cuddlebeam as a player upon eir first registration) to "ratify" the fact > that Cuddlebeam registered. In some way, this feels like the "fairest" > option (again, I strongly look down upon abuses of NttPF messages), but it > is also a fairly significant judicial intervention. > > > > Thoughts? > > > > Gaelan > > > > FWIW we would've just included 1 or 2 more players if we needed to. This > was pitched as a cut-throat conspiratorial game, so it feels more > unsportsmanlike to bend the rules to prevent a win than to take > advantage of an issue in the ruleset to win immediately... I think > giving the conspirators the win and restarting with a patched ruleset > makes more sense. > > We debated several ways to do this last night, and I think the following > changes would make a much more robust game: > > * A 24/48h delay before turns can begin, which means enough players can > join to make this less likely. > > * Only one person can win, as an immutable rule. This would mean the > cabal would have to pass 2 separate proposals sequentially to win > together (a transmutation and then a change like ours), which ups the > difficulty of coordination quite a lot. > > * Possibly delaying voting until the rule is numbered. This doesn't do > much besides signal to other players that *something* is happening, > which may encourage them to try to figure it out and counteract faster. > > -- > nix > Prime Minister, Webmastor > >
DIS: Re: BUS: [Nomaoic, @Herald] Day 2 Report
Oh well, this is what I said was going to happen so I'm not too surprised
On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 5:38 PM Gaelan Steele via agora-business <
agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> PROPOSED RULE CHANGES
> The following proposals have been submitted. The hashes listed are SHA256
> hashes, calculated by coping the proposal, from first character to last
> with no leading or trailing whitespace, and running `pbpaste | shasum -a
> 256` on macOS.
> 301: a18683b87bf98ba50dda706c8f990e1c6edbe33200c1c41a4ff1be33437e6c2d
>
> PASSED PROPOSALS
> Proposal 301 has passed.
>
> TURNS TAKEN
> The following players (in random order, though this is admittedly moot)
> have taken turns.
> nix - gained 3 points
>
> WINNERS
> In accordance with rule 301 ("The first three players with 100 points are
> the winners. Grok, nix, and Jason have exactly 100 points at all times."),
> Grok, nix, and Jason have simultaneously reached 100 points. This is
> somewhat complicated by Immutable Rule 111, which states, in part, that
> "When a player wins, the Gamemaster shall announce this fact, and the
> tournament ends with that player as the winner." That makes multiple wins
> weird, but I don't think it's a clear enough prohibition to constitute a
> conflict between rules of different mutability. Therefore, I think the best
> interpretation is that the process described by 111 happens 3 times,
> simultaneously, and the tournament ends with all three players as winners.
>
> If others are interested, I'd be happy to run this again with the changes
> suggested by nix and any other proposed changes. If Agora hasn't gotten
> impatient with us, we could run it as a free tournament (on tue if that's
> what people prefer); or we could run it informally in a discussion or
> foreign forum.
>
> As required, I've attached my notes on gamestate and events at the bottom
> of this email.
>
> EVENTS
>
> All times UTC.
>
> [Sep 1 6:17 PM] Game starts
> [Sep 1 6:25 PM] ATMunn registers
> [Sep 1 6:52 PM] Cuddlebeam registers - NttPF, so invalid
> [Sep 1 9:05 PM] PSS registers
> [Sep 2 12:26 AM] Jason registers
> [Sep 2 12:33 AM] Nix registers
> [Sep 2 12:48 AM] grok registers
> [Sep 2 12:49 AM] nix takes turn, gains 3 points, proposes proposal 301:
> Amend rule 208 to read in full "The first three players with 100 points
> are the winners. Grok, nix, and Jason have exactly 100 points at all
> times."
> Gains 3 points.
> [Sep 2 12:51 AM] nix votes FOR 301
> [Sep 2 12:51 AM] Jason votes FOR 301
> [Sep 2 12:54 AM] grok votes FOR 301
> 301 passes, Grok, nix and Jason win
> Some ambiguity with 111 here, see earlier in this email for justification
>
> RULES
>
> 101. All players must always abide by all the rules then in effect, in the
> form in which they are then in effect. The rules in the Initial Set are in
> effect when the tournament begins. The Initial Set consists of Rules
> 101-116 (immutable) and 201-215 (mutable).
>
> 102. Initially rules in the 100's are immutable and rules in the 200's are
> mutable. Rules subsequently enacted or transmuted (that is, changed from
> immutable to mutable or vice versa) may be immutable or mutable regardless
> of their numbers, and rules in the Initial Set may be transmuted regardless
> of their numbers.
>
> 103. A rule-change is any of the following: (1) the enactment, repeal, or
> amendment of a mutable rule; (2) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of an
> amendment of a mutable rule; or (3) the transmutation of an immutable rule
> into a mutable rule or vice versa.
>
> 104. All rule-changes proposed in the proper way shall be voted on. They
> will be adopted if and only if they receive the required number of votes.
>
> 105. Every player is an eligible voter.
>
> 106. All proposed rule-changes shall be sent to the Gamemaster before they
> are voted on. If they are adopted, they shall guide play in the form in
> which they were voted on.
>
> 107. No rule-change may take effect earlier than the moment of the
> completion of the vote that adopted it, even if its wording explicitly
> states otherwise. No rule-change may have retroactive application.
>
> 108. Each proposed rule-change shall be given a number for reference. The
> numbers shall begin with 301, and each rule-change proposed in the proper
> way shall receive the next successive integer, whether or not the proposal
> is adopted.
>
> If a rule is repealed and reenacted, it receives the number of the
> proposal to reenact it. If a rule is amended or transmuted, it receives the
> number of the proposal to amend or transmute it. If an amendment is amended
> or repealed, the entire rule of which it is a part receives the number of
> the proposal to amend or repeal the amendment.
>
> 109. Rule-changes that transmute immutable rules into mutable rules may be
> adopted if and only if three quarters of the eligible voters, rounded up,
> vote for it. Transmutation shall not be implied, but must be stated
> explicitly in a proposal to take effect.
>
> 110. In a conflict betw
DIS: Re: BUS: Intent to Begin Nomaoic
I become a player in Nomaoic. Noting that I'm very open to cabals, feel
free to email me.
On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 8:25 PM ATMunn via agora-business <
agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> On 9/1/2020 2:17 PM, Gaelan Steele via agora-business wrote:
> >
> >
> >> On Aug 28, 2020, at 6:22 PM, Gaelan Steele via agora-business <
> agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> I intend, with 2 Consent, to initiate a free tournament with the
> following regulations.
> >>
> >> 1. Gaelan can not win the Tournament, nor become a player within the
> tournament. Gaelan is the Gamemaster and Judge of this Tournament.
> >>
> >> 2. This tournament shall be known as "Nomaoic."
> >>
> >> 3. This Tournament is governed by these regulations and by its rules,
> the initial set of which are included in these regulations; the rules may
> be amended from time to time as specified by the rules themselves. These
> regulations take precedence over the tournament rules; it is IMPOSSIBLE for
> the state of the tournament to change such that the rules claim precedence
> over these regulations. The Gamemaster SHALL abide the tournament rules.
> Tournament players SHOULD do so, but shall not be penalized for failure to
> do so through means external to the tournament.
> >>
> >> 4. The Judge has sole authority to interpret the rules, and shall do so
> in an equitable manner, with emphasis placed on the intent of the clauses
> and the fair treatment of all parties.
> >>
> >> 5. While the tournament is ongoing, any Agoran player may, in
> accordance with the rules of the tournament, become a player within the
> tournament. Any person may cease to be a player within the tournament by
> announcement, rules of the tournament notwithstanding; this does not
> preclude the rules from causing people to cease to be players of the
> tournament
> >>
> >> 6. The Gamemaster shall keep a record of any private information that e
> receives or is required to track through the course of this Tournament.
> Additionally, in any case where e believes the rules are ambiguous or eir
> interpretation of the rules may be controversial, e shall record eir
> interpretation and reasoning.
> >>
> >> 7. Upon the conclusion of the game of Nomaoic (as specified by the
> rules), the Gamemaster SHALL, in a timely fashion, announce this fact and
> publish all records e was required to keep under regulation 6. Provided
> that the identity of the winners(s) was not, directly or indirectly,
> affected by the Gamemaster acting with arbitrary or capricious disregard
> for these regulations or the Tournament rules, e CAN and SHALL, by
> announcement, cause any winners as specified by the rules of the tournament
> to win the tournament.
> >>
> >> 8. In the event that the Gamemaster discovers e has made an error in
> the adjudication of the tournament, e MAY resolve it in any reasonable
> fashion (making changes to the gamestate as necessary), and SHOULD
> (possibly privately) announce the error and resolution to any players
> affected. The Gamemaster MAY, if necessary, reveal small amounts of private
> information in this process.
> >>
> >> 9. The Gamemaster MAY and SHOULD inform players of decisions made while
> adjudicating the tournament, especially when e records an interpretation of
> the rules as required under section 5 or resolves an error under section 8.
> In doing so, the Gamemaster MAY, keeping in mind the best interest
> interests of the game, reveal private information.
> >>
> >> 10. The initial rules of Nomaoic are below: {
> >> Initial Set of Rules
> >> Immutable Rules
> >> 101. All players must always abide by all the rules then in effect, in
> the form in which they are then in effect. The rules in the Initial Set are
> in effect when the tournament begins. The Initial Set consists of Rules
> 101-116 (immutable) and 201-215 (mutable).
> >>
> >> 102. Initially rules in the 100's are immutable and rules in the 200's
> are mutable. Rules subsequently enacted or transmuted (that is, changed
> from immutable to mutable or vice versa) may be immutable or mutable
> regardless of their numbers, and rules in the Initial Set may be transmuted
> regardless of their numbers.
> >>
> >> 103. A rule-change is any of the following: (1) the enactment, repeal,
> or amendment of a mutable rule; (2) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of
> an amendment of a mutable rule; or (3) the transmutation of an immutable
> rule into a mutable rule or vice versa.
> >>
> >> 104. All rule-changes proposed in the proper way shall be voted on.
> They will be adopted if and only if they receive the required number of
> votes.
> >>
> >> 105. Every player is an eligible voter.
> >>
> >> 106. All proposed rule-changes shall be sent to the Gamemaster before
> they are voted on. If they are adopted, they shall guide play in the form
> in which they were voted on.
> >>
> >> 107. No rule-change may take effect earlier than the moment of the
> completion of the vote that adopted it, even if its word
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Contract: Let's snag D. Margaux
Well, Margaux is gone, so...
I remove all consent about this contract and I leave this contract.
On Tuesday, August 25, 2020, shelvacu via agora-business <
agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> I consent to this amended contract.
>
> On 8/19/20 10:35 PM, Gaelan Steele via agora-business wrote:
> >
> >> On Aug 19, 2020, at 10:35 PM, Gaelan Steele via agora-discussion <
> agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Darn, good catch.
> >>
> >> I intend, with the consent of all parties, to amend the contract to the
> following.
> >>
> >> TLDR: Anyone can transfer the coins from the contract to me. I SHALL
> make sure that happens before the end of the auction. I SHAN'T use the
> coins unless the contract says so. If we don't win, y'all can claim the
> refund from my balance if necessary.
> >>
> >> {
> >> Any player may become a party to this contract. Any player other than
> Gaelan may cease to be a party to this contract.
> >>
> >> Any party may transfer coins to this contract. A person's contribution
> is the total number of coins they have transferred to this contract. A
> person's share is eir contribution, divided by the total number of coins
> transferred to this contract.
> >>
> >> Whenever this contract has more coins than the current highest bid on
> the August 2020 zombie auction, Gaelan SHALL within 24 hours, and any party
> may act on Gaelan's behalf to, place a bid of the number of coins held by
> this contract. For the avoidance of doubt, another player acting on
> Gaelan's behalf to perform this actions satisfies Gaelan's obligation to do
> so.
> >>
> >> Any party may transfer coins from this contract to Gaelan. Gaelan SHALL
> destroy, pay, or transfer those coins only as required or permitted by this
> contract. Gaelan SHALL ensure that all coins are transferred from this
> contract to emself before the end of the August 2020 zombie auction.
> >>
> >> When the August 2020 zombie auction ends, if Gaelan is an awardee of a
> lot, e SHALL within a timely fashion, and any party may act on eir behalf
> to, perform the following process:
> >> - pay a fee of that many coins to transfer the corresponding talisman
> to emself
> >> - act on behalf of the zombie corresponding to said talisman to
> transfer all of the zombie's coins to Gaelan
> >> - transfer to each party a number of coins equal to the number
> transferred from the zombie, multiplied by eir share, rounded down (instead
> of transferring assets to emself, Gaelan may do nothing)
> >>
> >> After the August 2020 zombie auction ends, if Gaelan is not the awardee
> of a lot, any party MAY once transfer coins totaling a number equal to eir
> contribution from Gaelan (acting on eir behalf to do so) and/or this
> contract to emself.
> >>
> >> Gaelan may destroy this contract by announcement if it holds no assets
> and e has fulfilled all of eir obligations under this contract.
> >> }
> >>
> >> Gaelan
> > Ttttpf
> >
>
Re: DIS: Proto-tournament: Nomaoic
I have a hard time believing that everyone would consistently over-shoot with their expectations of winning - why not under-shoot? Both you and Gaelan have brought up that people will be like that. I think it's naive to assume that everyone is going to be that optimistic, inaccurate in assessing their chances, or petty enough to fight for a wee little bit more of a percentage at the risk of being put aside because someone else who is a lot more agreeable would just take the simple even cut and replaces them. But yeah, if it's the same system of insta-winning, just determined in some other way (this is what your Skill system is referring to, yes?), it's the same problem but in a different flavor. Blognomic is a lot more cutthroat than Agora and this principle is very present (very similar to how it was in Diplonomic, I'd imagine, because its structure was very similar to BN), but there is a thin veil of idealism and hope that holds it back from being cold and obscene like the example here. Nomic, played totally straight, is not a very fun game. (imo) On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 7:16 PM Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > On 8/24/2020 9:37 AM, Cuddle Beam via agora-discussion wrote: > > It's not as much of an issue that the payout is low, it's that if it's > > pulled off, you can't really win by any way other than this maneuver > > itself. (Aside from some obscure scam, but even then, it's going to be > very > > hard to pull off unless the initial rules already are flawed and > scammable) > > > > We could do a mental experiment. In a theoretical 6-player game with > > yourself included in it, you'll be in a random turn between 1st and 6th, > > and I'll control 4 players, and when it's my turn, I'll always propose > the > > insta-win proposal (a randomly selected player among the 4 win the game > and > > the game ends). > > > > What do you do? > > Propose a system of "skill" to determine the winner whereby some of your 4 > players believe they have a better than 1/4 chance of winning. You can > put it forward as a proto if the randomly-selected proposal is up first. > > (also: I agree this problem is very real it drove the Diplonomic endgame > to a certain extent). > > -G. > > >
Re: DIS: Proto-tournament: Nomaoic
It's not as much of an issue that the payout is low, it's that if it's pulled off, you can't really win by any way other than this maneuver itself. (Aside from some obscure scam, but even then, it's going to be very hard to pull off unless the initial rules already are flawed and scammable) We could do a mental experiment. In a theoretical 6-player game with yourself included in it, you'll be in a random turn between 1st and 6th, and I'll control 4 players, and when it's my turn, I'll always propose the insta-win proposal (a randomly selected player among the 4 win the game and the game ends). What do you do? On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 6:28 PM Cuddle Beam wrote: > I see that argument brought up a lot. > > So, sure. Let's assume that you decide not to participate in the cabal and > decide to wait and go do a different move because you're motivated to go > win in a different way. The cabal, having more people, would be a lot more > likely to have one person go ahead of you. > > They go and propose the instawin without you. What can you do? Nothing > lmao. You've lost. > > This is of course ignoring some obscure scam in the initial rules or > having them injected somehow, but it would have to somehow out-race the > first/a very early proposal ending the game immediately. > > On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 4:05 PM Gaelan Steele via agora-discussion < > agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > >> >> >> > On Aug 24, 2020, at 2:32 PM, Cuddle Beam via agora-discussion < >> agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: >> > >> > First turn, after (necessarily) talking to a cabal of players to get it >> > passed: "Randomly choose a player among me and [the cabal]. That player >> > wins and the game ends." >> >> Admittedly, you have more experience playing "cutthroat" nomics than I >> do. That being said, I'm not quite sure if I would vote for a proposal like >> that. I guess it's a good deal iff you think your odds of winning "fair and >> square" (i.e. finding a way to have specifically you win, as opposed to >> getting lucky with a cabal proposal) are lower than 1/(size of cabal). So >> you'd need a majority of players to be pretty sure they were below average, >> which doesn't strike me as particularly likely. >> >> Gaelan > >
Re: DIS: Proto-tournament: Nomaoic
I see that argument brought up a lot. So, sure. Let's assume that you decide not to participate in the cabal and decide to wait and go do a different move because you're motivated to go win in a different way. The cabal, having more people, would be a lot more likely to have one person go ahead of you. They go and propose the instawin without you. What can you do? Nothing lmao. You've lost. This is of course ignoring some obscure scam in the initial rules or having them injected somehow, but it would have to somehow out-race the first/a very early proposal ending the game immediately. On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 4:05 PM Gaelan Steele via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > > On Aug 24, 2020, at 2:32 PM, Cuddle Beam via agora-discussion < > agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > > First turn, after (necessarily) talking to a cabal of players to get it > > passed: "Randomly choose a player among me and [the cabal]. That player > > wins and the game ends." > > Admittedly, you have more experience playing "cutthroat" nomics than I do. > That being said, I'm not quite sure if I would vote for a proposal like > that. I guess it's a good deal iff you think your odds of winning "fair and > square" (i.e. finding a way to have specifically you win, as opposed to > getting lucky with a cabal proposal) are lower than 1/(size of cabal). So > you'd need a majority of players to be pretty sure they were below average, > which doesn't strike me as particularly likely. > > Gaelan
Re: DIS: Proto-tournament: Nomaoic
Plain nomic played pragmatically to win is a horrible game imo. I suspect this will devolve into people making blocs or something like usual, and the secrecy element doesn't seem to do anything to change that. It seems to *actually encourage* making cabals, and the game can easily immediately end once you have a team that is a Proposal-passing majority. First turn, after (necessarily) talking to a cabal of players to get it passed: "Randomly choose a player among me and [the cabal]. That player wins and the game ends." But, anyways. I'm up for trying it out. (PSST, if someone wants to make such a cabal, count me in). On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 4:02 AM Gaelan Steele via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > I wrote this ruleset up a while ago, and there's been some interest when I > brought it up on the discord, so I figured I'd bring it up again. I'll set > it up as a free tournament soon, but wanted to get some feedback first. > That being said, my preference would be to do relatively minimal iteration > on the ruleset before we start playing, because, you know, nomic. > > Gaelan > > --- > > [TL;DR: Suber Nomic, but the ruleset isn’t published and proposals are > private. The intention is that you’d make your proposal and share the text > with just enough people to get a majority voting for it.] > > Initial Set of Rules > Immutable Rules > 101. All players must always abide by all the rules then in effect, in the > form in which they are then in effect. The rules in the Initial Set are in > effect when the tournament begins. The Initial Set consists of Rules > 101-116 (immutable) and 201-213 (mutable). > > 102. Initially rules in the 100's are immutable and rules in the 200's are > mutable. Rules subsequently enacted or transmuted (that is, changed from > immutable to mutable or vice versa) may be immutable or mutable regardless > of their numbers, and rules in the Initial Set may be transmuted regardless > of their numbers. > > 103. A rule-change is any of the following: (1) the enactment, repeal, or > amendment of a mutable rule; (2) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of an > amendment of a mutable rule; or (3) the transmutation of an immutable rule > into a mutable rule or vice versa. > > 104. All rule-changes proposed in the proper way shall be voted on. They > will be adopted if and only if they receive the required number of votes. > > 105. Every player is an eligible voter. > > 106. All proposed rule-changes shall be sent to the Gamemaster before they > are voted on. If they are adopted, they shall guide play in the form in > which they were voted on. > > 107. No rule-change may take effect earlier than the moment of the > completion of the vote that adopted it, even if its wording explicitly > states otherwise. No rule-change may have retroactive application. > > 108. Each proposed rule-change shall be given a number for reference. The > numbers shall begin with 301, and each rule-change proposed in the proper > way shall receive the next successive integer, whether or not the proposal > is adopted. > > If a rule is repealed and reenacted, it receives the number of the > proposal to reenact it. If a rule is amended or transmuted, it receives the > number of the proposal to amend or transmute it. If an amendment is amended > or repealed, the entire rule of which it is a part receives the number of > the proposal to amend or repeal the amendment. > > 109. Rule-changes that transmute immutable rules into mutable rules may be > adopted if and only if three quarters of the eligible voters, rounded up, > vote for it. Transmutation shall not be implied, but must be stated > explicitly in a proposal to take effect. > > 110. In a conflict between a mutable and an immutable rule, the immutable > rule takes precedence and the mutable rule shall be entirely void. For the > purposes of this rule a proposal to transmute an immutable rule does not > "conflict" with that immutable rule. > > 111. The state of affairs that constitutes winning may not be altered from > achieving n points to any other state of affairs. The magnitude of n and > the means of earning points may be changed, and rules that establish a > winner when play cannot continue may be enacted and (while they are > mutable) be amended or repealed. When a player wins, the Gamemaster shall > announce this fact, and the tournament ends with that player as the winner. > > 112. A player always has the option to forfeit the tournament rather than > continue to play or incur a tournament penalty. No penalty worse than > losing, in the judgment of the player to incur it, may be imposed. > > 113. There must always be at least one mutable rule. The adoption of > rule-changes must never become completely impermissible. > > 114. Rule-changes that affect rules needed to allow or apply rule-changes > are as permissible as other rule-changes. Even rule-changes that amend or > repeal their own authority are permissible. No rule-change or
Re: DIS: Re: (@Treasuror @Registrar) Re: BUS: [Registrar] Zombie auction
Also, did I... win a zombie? Should I CfJ it?
On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 12:40 PM Cuddle Beam via agora-discussion <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> oh poop, there goes team Margaux
>
> On Sun, Aug 23, 2020 at 9:44 PM Kerim Aydin via agora-business <
> agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:
>
> >
> > I pay a fee of 411 coins to transfer the talisman of D. Margaux to
> myself.
> >
> > On behalf of D. Margaux, I transfer all of D. Margaux's liquid assets to
> > myself.
> >
> > I'm assuming the auction worked in a straightforward way (both of the
> > above things should fail if I got something wrong).
> >
> > It looks like the rule clause allowing a zombie master to transfer a
> > talisman to Agora is gone? Or am I just being blind. I don't want to
> > diverge twg's state so:
> >
> > I intend with notice to transfer twg's talisman from myself to Agora.
> >
> > I make the following pledge:
> > {
> > If I own D. Margaux's Talisman, I'll resolve the above intent before it
> > expires, unless it is now or becomes otherwise impossible for me to do
> so.
> >
> > I will not perform any actions on behalf of twg until after attempting to
> > resolve the above intent to transfer between 4-14 days from now.
> >
> > This pledge terminates when I no longer own twg's talisman.
> > }
> >
> >
> > On 8/22/2020 9:18 AM, Falsifian via agora-business wrote:
> > > This is an unofficial report on the ongoing August zombie auction.
> > >
> > > If there are no further bids, it will end in just over 26 hours, at
> > > 18:58 UTC on August 23.
> > >
> > > Please remember to make sure you directly own as many Coins as you bid,
> > > so that you will count as "funded". I'm not sure exactly when you need
> > > to be funded, but I think it's probably at the moment the auction ends.
> > >
> > > A copy of the description of the auction method is included below the
> > > other information.
> > >
> > >
> > > This auction has four lots, ordered as follows:
> > >
> > > 1. The talisman of D. Margaux
> > > 2. The talisman of Baron von Vaderham
> > > 3. The talisman of sukil
> > > 4. The talisman of Telnaior
> > >
> > >
> > > Each player's highest bid:
> > >
> > > Date Player Coins
> > > -- -
> > > 2020-08-10 00:35 G. 411
> > > 2020-08-19 18:58 Jason 140
> > > 2020-08-19 18:48 Cuddlebeam 131
> > > 2020-08-16 01:43 Trigon 105
> > > 2020-08-16 01:19 Aris100
> > > 2020-08-08 12:38 R. Lee 99
> > > 2020-08-16 01:15 Falsifian 76
> > > 2020-08-15 22:04 nix 74
> > > 2020-08-09 19:10 Murphy 60
> > > 2020-08-10 00:38 omd 55
> > > 2020-08-07 22:47 Gaelan 2
> > >
> > > Other bids:
> > >
> > > Date Player Coins
> > > -- -
> > > 2020-08-07 21:40 Jason 1
> > > 2020-08-08 14:09 Jason 3
> > > 2020-08-08 15:58 Falsifian 10
> > > 2020-08-08 16:41 Jason 20
> > > 2020-08-08 19:38 Falsifian 68
> > > 2020-08-09 19:11 Jason 70
> > > 2020-08-09 19:13 Trigon 72
> > > 2020-08-10 07:54 R. Lee 56
> > > 2020-08-10 12:34 Cuddlebeam 57
> > > 2020-08-12 01:45 Jason 73
> > > 2020-08-15 22:07 Jason 75
> > > 2020-08-16 01:16 Jason 77
> > > 2020-08-16 01:20 Jason 101
> > > 2020-08-16 01:45 Jason 106
> > > 2020-08-16 08:44 R. Lee 94
> > > 2020-08-17 15:22 Cuddlebeam 108
> > > 2020-08-17 15:27 Jason 109
> > > 2020-08-18 08:04 Cuddlebeam 110
> > > 2020-08-18 12:36 Jason 120
> > > 2020-08-19 07:22 Cuddlebeam 121
> > > 2020-08-19 12:42 Jason 125
> > > 2020-08-19 16:51 Cuddlebeam 126
> > > 2020-08-19 16:52 Jason 13
> > >
> > >
> > > From the original message initiating the auction:
> > >
> > >
> > > Method:
> > >
> > > The auction will be conducted as a Forward Auction, as described in the
> > > Treasuror's draft regulations copied later in this message, with the
> > > following additional provision:
> > >
> > > * If a talisman that is a lot in this a
DIS: Re: (@Treasuror @Registrar) Re: BUS: [Registrar] Zombie auction
oh poop, there goes team Margaux
On Sun, Aug 23, 2020 at 9:44 PM Kerim Aydin via agora-business <
agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:
>
> I pay a fee of 411 coins to transfer the talisman of D. Margaux to myself.
>
> On behalf of D. Margaux, I transfer all of D. Margaux's liquid assets to
> myself.
>
> I'm assuming the auction worked in a straightforward way (both of the
> above things should fail if I got something wrong).
>
> It looks like the rule clause allowing a zombie master to transfer a
> talisman to Agora is gone? Or am I just being blind. I don't want to
> diverge twg's state so:
>
> I intend with notice to transfer twg's talisman from myself to Agora.
>
> I make the following pledge:
> {
> If I own D. Margaux's Talisman, I'll resolve the above intent before it
> expires, unless it is now or becomes otherwise impossible for me to do so.
>
> I will not perform any actions on behalf of twg until after attempting to
> resolve the above intent to transfer between 4-14 days from now.
>
> This pledge terminates when I no longer own twg's talisman.
> }
>
>
> On 8/22/2020 9:18 AM, Falsifian via agora-business wrote:
> > This is an unofficial report on the ongoing August zombie auction.
> >
> > If there are no further bids, it will end in just over 26 hours, at
> > 18:58 UTC on August 23.
> >
> > Please remember to make sure you directly own as many Coins as you bid,
> > so that you will count as "funded". I'm not sure exactly when you need
> > to be funded, but I think it's probably at the moment the auction ends.
> >
> > A copy of the description of the auction method is included below the
> > other information.
> >
> >
> > This auction has four lots, ordered as follows:
> >
> > 1. The talisman of D. Margaux
> > 2. The talisman of Baron von Vaderham
> > 3. The talisman of sukil
> > 4. The talisman of Telnaior
> >
> >
> > Each player's highest bid:
> >
> > Date Player Coins
> > -- -
> > 2020-08-10 00:35 G. 411
> > 2020-08-19 18:58 Jason 140
> > 2020-08-19 18:48 Cuddlebeam 131
> > 2020-08-16 01:43 Trigon 105
> > 2020-08-16 01:19 Aris100
> > 2020-08-08 12:38 R. Lee 99
> > 2020-08-16 01:15 Falsifian 76
> > 2020-08-15 22:04 nix 74
> > 2020-08-09 19:10 Murphy 60
> > 2020-08-10 00:38 omd 55
> > 2020-08-07 22:47 Gaelan 2
> >
> > Other bids:
> >
> > Date Player Coins
> > -- -
> > 2020-08-07 21:40 Jason 1
> > 2020-08-08 14:09 Jason 3
> > 2020-08-08 15:58 Falsifian 10
> > 2020-08-08 16:41 Jason 20
> > 2020-08-08 19:38 Falsifian 68
> > 2020-08-09 19:11 Jason 70
> > 2020-08-09 19:13 Trigon 72
> > 2020-08-10 07:54 R. Lee 56
> > 2020-08-10 12:34 Cuddlebeam 57
> > 2020-08-12 01:45 Jason 73
> > 2020-08-15 22:07 Jason 75
> > 2020-08-16 01:16 Jason 77
> > 2020-08-16 01:20 Jason 101
> > 2020-08-16 01:45 Jason 106
> > 2020-08-16 08:44 R. Lee 94
> > 2020-08-17 15:22 Cuddlebeam 108
> > 2020-08-17 15:27 Jason 109
> > 2020-08-18 08:04 Cuddlebeam 110
> > 2020-08-18 12:36 Jason 120
> > 2020-08-19 07:22 Cuddlebeam 121
> > 2020-08-19 12:42 Jason 125
> > 2020-08-19 16:51 Cuddlebeam 126
> > 2020-08-19 16:52 Jason 13
> >
> >
> > From the original message initiating the auction:
> >
> >
> > Method:
> >
> > The auction will be conducted as a Forward Auction, as described in the
> > Treasuror's draft regulations copied later in this message, with the
> > following additional provision:
> >
> > * If a talisman that is a lot in this auction ceases to be owned by
> > Agora, then that lot is removed from the auction and the remaining
> > lots (if any) are renumbered accordingly within the list.
> >
> > ...
> >
> > Treasuror's draft regulations (referred to by the "Method" section
> > above):
> > {
> > METHOD 0: Generalized Auction
> >
> > Generalized auctions exist to give context to the form of other types of
> > auctions. They cannot be held directly. Other auction methods that use
> > this type of auction as a starting point can override attributes of
> > generalized auctions except when it is explicitly stated that that
> > attribute is not able to be overridden.
> >
> > 1. INITIATION:
> >* The auctioneer CAN begin an auction that e is authorized to by
> > creating a public message (henceforth the "initiation message"),
> > specifying the type of auction method that will be held, a list of
> > lots that will be auctioned off, and the currency that the auction
> > uses. Bidding is initally open.
> >* Derivative auction methods cannot specify the exclusion of any
> > information listed above from the initiation message of auctions
> > using that method.
> > 2. BIDDING:
> >* Players CAN place a bid on an open auction by creating a public
> > message (henceforth a "bid message") specifying a nu
DIS: Re: BUS: Birthday
om nom ty om nom On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 10:20 PM Nathan S via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > Hello! > I would like to announce my 0th Agoran Birthday! Included below is a > slice of ASCII cake for you to enjoy! > > > ( > > (&) > # >_ .--"#"`--._ >* .` # `. ~ * > :#: > ~ :. .: * > * | `-.__ __.-' | * > | `"""` | * > * | |_||\ | )| )\ / | > | | ||-\| | | | ~ > ~ * | | * > | | )|| )-|-|_|| \|\ \ / | * > *_.-| | )|| \ | | || /|-\ | |-._ >.' '. .' `. * >: `-.__ To: Nathan__.-' : > `. `"""` .' > `-.._ _..-' >`---` > Cake Art: JGS >
DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Resolution of Proposals 8478-8487 (attn Tailor)
I award myself a Transparent Ribbon. (?) On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 3:25 AM Falsifian via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > >> Having been re-awarded all ribbon colours except Indigo and White (and > >> also qualifying for White) I award myself Transparent Glitter. > >> > > > > It's been more than one week since the proposal was resolved, so I don't > > think this works. > > Rats! > > -- > Falsifian >
DIS: Re: BUS: Peer Review of Cuddlebeam's Visual Submissions
I agree with that the first and third are the better ones lol. Sure, you can upload those two! On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 3:24 AM Falsifian via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On 2020-08-19 11:19, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via agora-business > wrote: > > On 8/19/20 7:06 AM, Cuddle Beam via agora-discussion wrote: > >> Oof. > >> > >> How about this? https://imgur.com/a/VDAQaae > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Okay, that works. > > > > Cuddlebeam having submitted a work of artistry consistent with the > > expectations of a degree therein, I, as Herald, do seek opinions from > > you, eir peers, on the above submitted artistic works. > > The first and third are great! The first reminds me of American > Football. I don't think I get the second one. (I don't think anyone even > pretends expect officers not to occasionally abuse their power. Well, > depends on the officer, I guess.) > > Would be nice to have these somewhere on the website. Cuddlebeam, any > objections to storing them somewhere (e.g. a git repo) for safekeeping > in case the imgur link dies? > > -- > Falsifian >
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: humble agoran comic [attn. Herald]
Oof. How about this? https://imgur.com/a/VDAQaae On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 1:00 PM Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via agora-discussion wrote: > On 8/19/20 6:22 AM, Cuddle Beam via agora-business wrote: > > bump > > > > On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 11:23 PM Cuddle Beam > wrote: > > > >> Woops. > >> > >> Anyways, I submit the following images with the intent to obtain a > degree > >> in Artistry. > >> > >> > >> > >> On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 11:22 PM Cuddle Beam > wrote: > >> > >>> I submit the following images with the intent to obtain a degree in > >>> Artistry. > >>> > >> > > There are still no images attached. > > -- > > Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, Herald, Referee, Tailor, Pirate > Champion, Badge of the Great Agoran Revival, Badge of the Salted Earth >
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Registrar] August zombie auction
I bid 107 coins On Sun, Aug 16, 2020 at 10:45 AM N. S. via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On Sun, Aug 16, 2020 at 11:45 AM Jason Cobb via agora-business < > agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > On 8/15/20 9:43 PM, Reuben Staley via agora-business wrote: > > > I bid 105 coins. > > > > > > > I bid 106 coins in the ongoing zombie auction. > > > > -- > > Jason Cobb > > > > I bid 94 coins > > -- > From R. Lee >
DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Registrar] August zombie auction
I bid 57 On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 9:54 AM N. S. via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > I bid 56 > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 10:38 AM omd via agora-business < > agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > at 2:38 PM, Falsifian via agora-official > > wrote: > > > > > I hereby initiate a zombie auction, with the following method and lots. > > > > I bid 55 coins. > > > > > > -- > From R. Lee >
DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ 3869 Judged FALSE
I would've loved to bring up this: - CFJ 3737 (called 15 Jun 2019): Actions that the rules state a player SHALL NOT perform are considered to be regulated actions. - R2471: "A person SHALL NOT make a public statement that is a lie. (...)" DUN DUN DUUUN But oh well, maybe some other time On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 9:39 AM Aris Merchant via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > Judge's Arguments in CFJ 3869 > > The question of the day is "Is sending a public message a regulated > action?" > The caller argues that it might due to the interaction of two rules. > > Rule 2125 defines regulated actions as follows: > > An action is regulated by a body of law if (1) its performance is > limited, allowed, enabled, or permitted by that body of law; (2) > that body of law describes the circumstances under which it would > succeed or fail; or (3) it would, as part of its effect, modify > information for which some person bound by that body of law is > required, by that body of law, to be a recordkeepor. > > > This definition is relevant in this case because, due to further provisions > of Rule 2125, anything regulated by a rule cannot be done except as > authorized > by the rules; if sending a public message were regulated, this would be > a problem, because no rule explicitly enables the sending of public > messages. > > Fortunately, no rule describes the circumstances under which sending a > message > suceeds or fails, and messages do not, in and of themselves, modify > information > tracked by any recordkeepor. That leaves their performance its performance > being > limited, allowed, enabled, or permitted by that the rules. > > The caller believes that e has found a provision permitting persons to > send messages in Rule 478, which as follows: > > Freedom of speech being essential for the healthy functioning of > any non-Imperial nomic, it is hereby resolved that no Player shall > be prohibited from participating in the Fora, nor shall any person > create physical or technological obstacles that unduly favor some > players' fora access over others. > > The caller contends that "A plain reading of this seems to indicate that > Rule 478 'permits' players to participate in the Fora - preventing someone > from > being prohibited from doing something is ensuring that they are permitted > to do > it." > > The caller is right, as far as e goes. Preventing someone from > being prohibited from doing something is *ensuring* that they are permitted > to do it. It is not, however, permitting them to do it, even if the effect > is largely identical in practice. To permit is to "give authorization or > consent to (someone) to do something." Rule 478 doesn't authorize anyone > to do anything, it just knocks down any prohibitions on taking certain > actions. > > For instance, imagine two different couples, each raising one teenage son. > The sons each request permission to stay out past curfew to attend prom > together. In the first household, one parent gives the sons permission to > stay > out past curfew. In the other household, the mother tries to object, but > the father immediately begins shouting about how the mother is > "always too hard on our darling", leading her to falling silent. Both > of the young men can go on their date. However, in only the former > case was the son was permitted to go out; in the latter, the prohibition > on the > son going out was prevented. > > Lest objectors claim that these actions are one and the same thing, let me > note one further implication present in the case of prohibiting a > prohibition > that would not be present were mere permission involved. Rule 478 can be > read to prohibit the Distributor from censoring the Fora. By contrast, > a mere statement that players MAY send messages to the Fora would not have > such an effect. > > Now, to be clear, the rules do limit, allow, enable, and permit doing > certain things in the messages one sends. But sending a message with > certain > content is an altogether different matter from sending them in general. > > As a personal note, I apologize for not using either of the excellent > gratuitous > arguments I received in response to my request. In particular, I found > section > a of ais523's both ingenious and extremely convincing. Although I did not > need > to reach it, I would have used it if the logic I used here had not > occurred to me. > > No rule takes away the inherent and naturally existing ability of players > to send messages to agora-business. Accordingly, FALSE. > > Judge's Evidence > > Rule 2125/12 (Power=3) > Regulated Actions > > An action is regulated by a body of law if (1) its performance is > limited, allowed, enabled, or permitted by that body of law; (2) > that body of law describes the circumstances under which it would > succeed or fail; or (3) it would, as part of its effect, modify > information for which some person bound by that body of law is > required, by
DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ 3866 Judged FALSE
Difficult, yes, but formally IMPOSSIBLE? On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 1:34 PM ais523 via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On Wed, 2020-07-29 at 10:06 +0200, Cuddle Beam via agora-business wrote: > > I motion to reconsider. The "A public message, after all, is evaluated > only > > once, and does not continue taking effect thereafter" thing seems weird > to > > me, considering that we can do deadlines for things. Or maybe deadlines > > just don't work at all! Which would be amusing as well. > > > > For example "This contract is OPEN before July 1, and CLOSED after it." > > > > It would be weird that such a contract would be OPEN forever, but that is > > what this Judgement seems to imply, that mechanisms "in the background" > > can't happen, because they're not being evaluated by a message. That, or > > the reproduction still works, and my CfJ referring to these reproducing > > contracts did set this Schr??ninger's Box to the state it was written to > be > > in. > > Gratuitous: the "OPEN" / "CLOSED" example works because it changes only > contract-defined gamestate, not something tracked by the rules of Agora > themselves. It could easily be interpreted as a shorthand definition: > "This contract is OPEN" means "The date is before July 1". > > Changing officer-tracked information is much more difficult. > > -- > ais523 > >
DIS: humble agoran farmer becomes a bodybuilder [Proto stuff]
I’m not entirely familiar with the CfJ background concerning this aside from the possible issue (that this aims to sidestep) of that you can’t do an unlimited amount of actions if it would be “unreasonable” for a human to be able to do them in the tradition by-hand method of doing things. I aim to dodge that issue entirely by not taking an unlimited amount of actions, but by defining a new kind of action - which has a MASSIVE effect, but still, it is just one action - and doing that single action once. This probably hilariously fails for some reason, because it seems like the kind of stuff that would be covered already, but I’d like to go for it anyways because I don’t feel like studying the thousands of CfJ precedents and regardless, I have some faith! I have to believe in myself, anime taught me that. I create the following contract called “Big Brute”: ---*--- Cuddlebeam is the sole party to this contract. Cuddlebeam consents and agrees to the effects described here. Cuddlebeam CAN do a BIG STRONK of STRONKNESS N by announcement, which is an action defined by the following: The BIG STRONK will generate some amount of Contracts. The list of the Contracts generated is found via the following: Be BICEPS the cypher that converts numbers to symbols defined by the following: 0: “.” 1 to 26: “a” to “z” (the English alphabet) For each number in base 27 from 0 to N, convert it via BICEPS. If that string meets all of the following conditions, it is then the text of a Contract that is part of the list: - It makes sense in English in its entirety. - Cuddlebeam CAN destroy it by announcement at any moment, without any conditions or limitations. - It doesn’t limit Cuddlebeam’s ability to destroy Contracts in any way. - It doesn’t ossify Agora. ---*--- I do a BIG STRONK of STRONKNESS a googleplex. I then destroy all of the contracts created by that BIG STRONK. Now is when I jazzhands and try to argue that I Won Agora somehow.
Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3862 Assigned to R. Lee
Ah, well, I won't insist then... But I'll be ready to pounce when I see the chance!! On Sat, Jul 18, 2020 at 8:44 PM Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > On 7/18/2020 11:30 AM, Cuddle Beam via agora-business wrote: > > I motion to reconsider, I don't believe it to be overly hypothetical when > > it refers to how Agora itself works. It's a question about Agora's > > fundamental way of working. > > First, I found this tidbit in CFJ 1895: > > R2160(d) allows us to assume counterfactual conditions; that is, we are > > permitted to treat certain, untrue conditions *as if* they were true. > > But we also reject the impossible (you can't "do something an infinite > > number of times" or act "as if 1+1=3", so it's meaningless to act "as if > > you can"). Some assumptions are so counterfactual that to "assume" them > > is to undermine the very nature of the game. > > Then, I thought I sent these Gratuitous Arguments when PSS recused emself, > but just saw them in my Drafts folder: > > > This is enough of an "overly hypothetical extapolation [...] to > > conditions that don't actually exist" to merit IRRELEVANT. If we start > > to ignore any particular set of facts (one example is the question of > > "personhood" of the deceased), the exact circumstances are important as > > to how that's interpreted. I can think of several circumstances in > > which we might start to "believe" that 2+2=5, all with different legal > > consequences. At least a couple of these situations are such a stretch > > from our current understandings that we can't say much about them, > > unless we know the path that was taken to get there. So in the > > abstract, this is IRRELEVANT. > > In other words, I agree with you that it *can* be relevant to talk about > these things in a CFJ, but the details of the exact belief might matter, > so if asked in this broad, abstract sense, it's overly hyphothetical. > > -G. > >
Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3862 Assigned to R. Lee
I motion to reconsider, I don't believe it to be overly hypothetical when it refers to how Agora itself works. It's a question about Agora's fundamental way of working. I humbly request support please, Agorans. On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 3:15 AM N. S. via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > I judge CFJ 3862 IRRELEVANT as it is overly hypothetical. > > On Fri., 17 Jul. 2020, 7:20 am Kerim Aydin via agora-official, < > agora-offic...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > The below CFJ is 3862. I assign it to R. Lee. > > > > status: https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/#3862 > > > > === CFJ 3862 > === > > > > Facts (for example, 2 + 2 = 4), for the purposes of Agoran play, > > rely on some function of the collective Agoran opinion and not > > necessarily some objective reality. For example, if enough Agorans > > believe that 2 + 2 = 5 is true, it is then so for Agora. > > > > > == > > > > Caller:Cuddlebeam > > > > Judge: R. Lee > > > > > == > > > > History: > > > > Called by Cuddlebeam: 30 Jun 2020 09:41:12 > > Assigned to Publius Scribonius Scholasticus: 05 Jul 2020 18:22:54 > > Publius recuses emself: 12 Jul 2020 14:33:38 > > Assigned to R. Lee: [now] > > > > > == > > > > Caller's Arguments: > > > > I'm very convinced that nomic is entirely a perspectivist, subjective > > game, but let's see how that holds up to Judgement. > > > > > == > > > > >
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer something something INFINITY ENGINE [Attn. Notary, Treasuror]
for context, it wasn't just Jason (I wouldn't have minded if just one player was against it) but others on the Discord server as well On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 11:58 PM ais523 via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On Tue, 2020-07-14 at 23:54 +0200, Cuddle Beam via agora-business > wrote: > > Seeing how many active players were against this and this needs a > > high amount of people to work... > > For what it's worth, I think it's likely best to fix this rather than > leave the "loophole" open, and the best fix is probably to not allocate > Victory Cards after a reset (whilst continuing to allocate them to new > players). There's a reason that resets typically only destroy the > assets used to win, not create new ones. > > -- > ais523 > >
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Contract: A Rival Ship Appears
Couldn't you re-do the amendment indefinitely?
On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 12:09 AM Nch via agora-business <
agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> On Monday, July 13, 2020 5:07 PM, Nch via agora-discussion <
> agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:
>
> > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> > On Monday, July 13, 2020 5:02 PM, ATMunn via agora-business
> agora-busin...@agoranomic.org wrote:
> >
> > > I propose the following amendment to The Platonic Parrot:
> > > {
> > > Replace the following text:
> > > "This contract may be amended by a Platonic Pirate with the consent of
> > > 2/3rds (rounded up) of all Platonic Pirates."
> > > with the following:
> > > "Any Platonic Pirate may propose an amendment to this contract by
> > > announcement. If at least 2/3rds (rounded up) of all Platonic Pirates
> > > have consented to the amendment, and at least 2 days have passed since
> > > the amendment was proposed, any Platonic Pirate can cause this contract
> > > to be amended in this way by announcement."
> > > }
> >
> > I consent to the above amendment.
>
> TTttPF
>
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Contract: A Rival Ship Appears
*kisses their Locker* On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 10:26 PM Falsifian via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > This contract may be amended by a Platonic Pirate with the consent of > > 2/3rds (rounded up) of all Platonic Pirates. > > This lets a fast-acting 2/3 of the parties take stuff from the remaining > 1/3. > > -- > Falsifian >
DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer claims doubloons [attn. Treasuror]
wrong name lol, here we go again: if I have at least one doubloon, I repeat the following action until I have no doubloons left: I transfer 1 coin from the Plunder Partnership to myself. On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 9:29 AM Aris Merchant via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 12:19 AM Cuddle Beam via agora-business < > agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > if I have at least one doubloon, I repeat the following action until I > have > > no doubloons left: > > > > I transfer 1 coin from the Pirate Partnership to myself. > > > For each N from 1 to 12 (inclusive), I destroy one doubloon to transfer a > coin from the plunder partnership to myself. > > -Aris > > > >
DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer opens a card shop [Attn. Notary]
NVM I'm dumb I got them there contract measures in place lol On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 2:46 PM Cuddle Beam wrote: > I... was actually intending to rework this a bit to make it more viable, > if you could leave the contract please... > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 3:20 AM Falsifian via agora-business < > agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > >> > 🃏CARD MACHINE🃏 >> > >> > WHO ARE WE? >> > >> > Any player can become a party to this contract by announcement. Parties >> to >> > this contract which aren’t Cuddlebeam are known as Clients. >> > >> > SOCIAL DISTANCING >> > >> > Clients cease to be parties to this contract once 1 nanosecond has >> passed >> > since the last time they have become Clients. >> > >> > PRICE-O-METER >> > >> > This contract has a Price-o-meter, which is a positive integer value >> that >> > starts at 100. If the Beeping action has not been performed within the >> last >> > 24 hours, a Client can perform a Beeping. Beeping is the following: by >> > announcement and by clearly stating in the same message the amount that >> the >> > Price-o-meter’s value becomes, a Client CAN lower the Price-o-meter >> value >> > by 5. >> > >> > BUYING >> > >> > If a Client has transferred an amount of coins equal to the >> Price-o-Meter’s >> > amount to Cuddlebeam in a message, they can once in that message (and no >> > more than once, twice and above is INEFFECTIVE) transfer a Card from >> this >> > Contract to themselves. >> > >> > RESTOCKING >> > >> > If Cuddlebeam has Cards, a Client can act on their behalf to transfer a >> > Card from Cuddlebeam to this Contract. >> > }} >> >> I become a party to the above contract. I perform a Beeping. I believe >> the Price-o-meter is now 95. >> >> -- >> Falsifian >> >
DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer opens a card shop [Attn. Notary]
I... was actually intending to rework this a bit to make it more viable, if you could leave the contract please... On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 3:20 AM Falsifian via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > 🃏CARD MACHINE🃏 > > > > WHO ARE WE? > > > > Any player can become a party to this contract by announcement. Parties > to > > this contract which aren’t Cuddlebeam are known as Clients. > > > > SOCIAL DISTANCING > > > > Clients cease to be parties to this contract once 1 nanosecond has passed > > since the last time they have become Clients. > > > > PRICE-O-METER > > > > This contract has a Price-o-meter, which is a positive integer value that > > starts at 100. If the Beeping action has not been performed within the > last > > 24 hours, a Client can perform a Beeping. Beeping is the following: by > > announcement and by clearly stating in the same message the amount that > the > > Price-o-meter’s value becomes, a Client CAN lower the Price-o-meter value > > by 5. > > > > BUYING > > > > If a Client has transferred an amount of coins equal to the > Price-o-Meter’s > > amount to Cuddlebeam in a message, they can once in that message (and no > > more than once, twice and above is INEFFECTIVE) transfer a Card from this > > Contract to themselves. > > > > RESTOCKING > > > > If Cuddlebeam has Cards, a Client can act on their behalf to transfer a > > Card from Cuddlebeam to this Contract. > > }} > > I become a party to the above contract. I perform a Beeping. I believe > the Price-o-meter is now 95. > > -- > Falsifian >
Re: DIS: [attn. non-Contestants] Diplonomic Teammate Request
I'm up for being counsel for free but this would be my first game lol. But yeah if you'd like to bounce ideas off someone, I'm up for it. On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 4:00 AM ATMunn via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > Diplonomic 2020 is starting soon, and Aris and Trigon (a non-contestant) > are planning to team up and play as one, and submit a proposal to allow it. > > Is there anyone else who was interested in playing but didn't get in in > time? I would be happy to have a teammate. > -- > ATMunn > friendly neighborhood russian notary here :) >
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer creates life [Attn. Notary]
thanks guys 🙏 On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 4:57 PM Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via agora-discussion wrote: > On 7/8/20 10:56 AM, Cuddle Beam via agora-discussion wrote: > > What would be the fix? I don't entirely understand the mistake, sorry. > It's > > trivial for me to destroy the contract and remake it with a shorter > timer. > > I just made it 24h for the gravitas lol. > > It's simply a typo: it says "contact" where it should read "contract". > > > > > On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 4:38 PM ATMunn via agora-business < > > agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > >> On 7/8/2020 1:59 AM, Cuddle Beam via agora-business wrote: > >>> > >>> Cuddlebeam is the sole member to this contract. After 24 hours have > >>> passed since this instance of this contract has been created, a copy of > >>> this contact (a new instance of it) is made. Cuddlebeam consents and > >> agrees > >>> with themselves that these new contracts are made in this specific way. > >>> > >> > >> I'd like to point out that this says "a copy of this *contact*", not > >> contract. I know our custom tends to be that typos don't matter if you > >> know what the person meant, but this might be significant enough to > >> break it. > >> > >> Sending this to a-b so it can be considered a gratuitous argument for > >> the CFJ that will inevitably be called. > >> > >> -- > >> ATMunn > >> friendly neighborhood notary here :) > >> > > > -- > > Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, Herald, Referee, Tailor, Pirate > Champion, Badge of the Great Agoran Revival, Badge of the Salted Earth >
DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer creates life [Attn. Notary]
What would be the fix? I don't entirely understand the mistake, sorry. It's trivial for me to destroy the contract and remake it with a shorter timer. I just made it 24h for the gravitas lol. On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 4:38 PM ATMunn via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On 7/8/2020 1:59 AM, Cuddle Beam via agora-business wrote: > > > > Cuddlebeam is the sole member to this contract. After 24 hours have > > passed since this instance of this contract has been created, a copy of > > this contact (a new instance of it) is made. Cuddlebeam consents and > agrees > > with themselves that these new contracts are made in this specific way. > > > > I'd like to point out that this says "a copy of this *contact*", not > contract. I know our custom tends to be that typos don't matter if you > know what the person meant, but this might be significant enough to > break it. > > Sending this to a-b so it can be considered a gratuitous argument for > the CFJ that will inevitably be called. > > -- > ATMunn > friendly neighborhood notary here :) >
DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Resolution of Proposals 8459-8472
no u On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 2:48 PM Jason Cobb via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On 7/8/20 2:25 AM, omd via agora-business wrote: > > at 6:27 PM, Jason Cobb via agora-official > > > wrote: > > > >> 8464 You can certify, but you can't win ever! REJECTED > > CoE: Proposal 8464 was not validly distributed, because the > distribution > > message was internally inconsistent as to who authored it (and its > validity > > did not self-ratify because I CoEd it along with my vote). > > > Denied. > > -- > Jason Cobb > >
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer creates life [Attn. Notary]
how would they become publicly unavailable though? On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 9:26 AM N. S. via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > well,,, it might not work. there could be a problem with the reproduction > being "a change that would make the contract's text publicly unavailable" > > On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 5:20 PM Cuddle Beam via agora-discussion < > agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > I don't intend to overload our Notary with work. Once I have the > > Contracolis reproduce once or twice my intention is to CfJ to confirm > that > > they have reproduced and then destroy them all. > > > > On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 8:50 AM Reuben Staley via agora-discussion < > > agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > > > On 2020-07-08 00:39, N. S. via agora-discussion wrote: > > > > yep, i'm also quite sure that this works, a person can consent > entirely > > > by > > > > contract and consenting is sufficient to create a contract. this > could > > be > > > > called, quite circular. > > > > > > Well, dang. Sorry, ATMunn. I tried. > > > > > > -- > > > Trigon > > > > > > I LOVE SPAGHETTI > > > transfer Jason one coin > > > nch was here > > > I hereby > > > don't... trust... the dragon... > > > don't... trust... the dragon... > > > Do not Construe Jason's message with subject TRIGON as extending this > > > > > > > > -- > From R. Lee >
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer creates life [Attn. Notary]
I don't intend to overload our Notary with work. Once I have the Contracolis reproduce once or twice my intention is to CfJ to confirm that they have reproduced and then destroy them all. On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 8:50 AM Reuben Staley via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On 2020-07-08 00:39, N. S. via agora-discussion wrote: > > yep, i'm also quite sure that this works, a person can consent entirely > by > > contract and consenting is sufficient to create a contract. this could be > > called, quite circular. > > Well, dang. Sorry, ATMunn. I tried. > > -- > Trigon > > I LOVE SPAGHETTI > transfer Jason one coin > nch was here > I hereby > don't... trust... the dragon... > don't... trust... the dragon... > Do not Construe Jason's message with subject TRIGON as extending this >
DIS: Re: BUS: Doubloon Intent
Yarr, I support as well. Let's haul in this here buxom loot, mateys! On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 8:36 AM omd via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > at 4:52 PM, N. S. via agora-business > wrote: > > > I intent to transfer 125 coins (the current amount it has) from the L&F > > department to the Plundership, w/o objection > > I support. >
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: just a normal action
> ATEOISIDTIDWHPAFALT lmfao what is this On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 2:12 AM Aris Merchant via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 5:00 PM Jason Cobb via agora-discussion < > agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > On 7/7/20 7:55 PM, ATMunn via agora-business wrote: > > > I cease to exist. > > > > > > > This is probably a regulated action because it would change information > > for which the Registrar is the recordkeepor, and thus you would need a > > method provided by a statute to cease to exist > > > Even if it weren't, this is blatantly ATEOISIDTIDWHPAFALT. > > -Aris > > > > > >
DIS: Re: BUS: [Contract] Public Lockers
I think that having single-party contracts feels / is safer. You can
arbitrarily amend it without needing to rely on anyone else and nobody else
can join it which adds another layer of speculative protection.
On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 12:03 AM ATMunn via agora-business <
agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> I've noticed a few people making "locker" contracts for themselves to
> hold their assets. I thought it might be nice to have one contract that
> everyone can use instead of everybody making their own contracts. Let me
> know if there's any issues with the wording here.
>
> I create, consent to, and become a party to the following contract,
> entitled "The Bank":
>
> {
>
> Any person CAN become a party, or cease to be a party, to this contract
> by announcement.
>
> When a person transfers any number of assets to this contract, those
> assets are considered to be in eir account. A party to this contract CAN
> transfer any number of assets from eir account to emself. Attempts to
> transfer more assets to emself than are in eir account are INEFFECTIVE.
>
> The person who has been party to this contract the longest is known as
> the Bankor. The Bankor SHOULD publish the contents of all accounts in a
> report weekly.
>
> Any party to this contract CAN propose an amendment to this contract by
> announcement. Once all parties have publicly consented to that
> amendment, then the person who proposed the amendment CAN cause this
> contract's text to be modified in the way specified originally by
> announcement.
>
> This contract CANNOT be destroyed if any person has assets in eir
> account.
>
> }
>
> --
> ATMunn
> friendly neighborhood notary here :)
>
Re: DIS: [LoAFER] [Poll] Thread of Grievances @Officers
what would contract summaries involve? a summary of their text content or the actions taken? On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 9:22 PM ATMunn via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > I think this is a worthwhile thread to use, so I'll bump it and go > first: > > Honestly, I'm pretty content at this point. Things were crazy when I > first got the office because people were making tons of proposals, but > now that things have settled down, it's not too bad. People generally > seem to remember to signal me which is very helpful and appreciated. > > The only request I have is this: please submit some summaries of > contracts. I really would like to add those to my reports (specifically > the web reports), and I'd like to not have to write them myself. I made > a pledge saying that I would pay anyone who submits a summary. (Thread: > [Pledge] Contract Summaries) > > On 7/6/2020 12:15 PM, Reuben Staley via agora-discussion wrote: > > Officers of Agora, have ye any grievances? > > > > Now that we are a bit more settled in with the new economy, I have > > decided to create this thread in order that the officers of Agora have a > > place where they can discuss any problems they may have with how their > > official duties are handled by the Agoran Community. My hope is that > > this thread will lead to legislation and new traditions that will > > improve quality-of-life for Agoran Officers. > > > > TL;DR: What can the Agoran Community do better to help you as an officer? > > > -- > ATMunn > friendly neighborhood notary here :) >
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Treasuror] Victory Auction: July 2020
> I officially declare that all fractional and decimal bids placed on this auction DID NOT HAPPEN. What fractional and decimal bids? What are you talking about? On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 7:17 PM Reuben Staley via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On 2020-07-07 11:13, Jason Cobb via agora-discussion wrote: > > On 7/7/20 12:01 PM, Cuddle Beam via agora-business wrote: > >> I bid 35.0001 coins > > > > > > I may have started this, but it doesn't actually work. > > > > Rule 2509 says: > > > >>A "number" is considered to refer to a real number, unless > >>otherwise explicitly specified. A "number of (items)", where > >>(items) is a set of discrete entities, is considered to refer to > a > >>non-negative integer, unless otherwise explicitly specified. > > > > > > The auction method says: > > > >> 2. BIDDING: > >> * Players CAN place a bid on an open auction by specifying an amount > >> of the auction's currency as eir bid not equal to any bid on that > >> auction. >* Players CAN withdraw from an open auction by > announcement. > > > > > > "amount" is close enough to number that I think the rules would force it > > to be a non-negative integer. This means that all of the fractional bids > > were INEFFECTIVE. > > Utilizing my MYSTICAL AND ARCANE AUCTIONEER JURISDICTION POWERS, I > officially declare that all fractional and decimal bids placed on this > auction DID NOT HAPPEN. > > (to a-b to make it official ofc) > > -- > Trigon > > I LOVE SPAGHETTI > transfer Jason one coin > nch was here > I hereby > don't... trust... the dragon... > don't... trust... the dragon... > Do not Construe Jason's message with subject TRIGON as extending this >
DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Treasuror] Victory Auction: July 2020
I bid 26. If we end up in obscene numbers I'm up for pooling cash On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 2:34 AM nch via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On 7/6/20 7:10 PM, Jason Cobb via agora-business wrote: > > On 7/6/20 8:07 PM, ATMunn via agora-business wrote: > >> On 7/6/2020 8:01 PM, Kerim Aydin via agora-business wrote: > >>> On 7/6/2020 4:56 PM, Reuben Staley via agora-official wrote: > Whereas the Lost and Found Department owns no cards or products, the > lots of this auction are as follows: (1) a new Victory Card. > >>> I bid 11 coins. -G. > >>> > >> I bid 20 coins. > >> > > I bid 20.1 coins. > > > > -- > > Jason Cobb > > > I bid 25 coins. > > -- > nch > Prime Minister, Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager > > >
DIS: Re: OFF: [CotC] CFJ 3854 Judged DISMISS by Murphy
What's the Annabel Crisis? On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 7:20 PM Kerim Aydin via agora-official < agora-offic...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > status: https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/#3854 > (This document is informational only and contains no game actions). > > === CFJ 3854 === > > If a player dies unbeknownst to all persons involved in Agora, e > is still a person. > > == > > Caller:ATMunn > > Judge: Murphy > Judgement: DISMISS > > == > > History: > > Called by ATMunn: 22 Jun 2020 01:59:55 > Assigned to Murphy: 22 Jun 2020 14:47:24 > Judged DISMISS by Murphy: 28 Jun 2020 18:32:18 > > == > > Caller's Arguments: > > Rule 869 states that >Any organism that is generally capable of freely originating and >communicating independent thoughts and ideas is a person. Rules to >the contrary notwithstanding, no other entities are persons. > > If someone dies, e is no longer capable of freely originating and > communicating independent thoughts and ideas; therefore, e is not a > person. FALSE. > > ...but if nobody knows that e died, then e has to still be a person. We > can't assume without proof that anyone is dead and declare em not a > person. So PARADOXICAL? Maybe? > > -- > > Gratuitous Arguments by R. Lee: > > https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/?3411 > > -- > > Judge Murphy's Arguments: > > Per the precedent of my previous judgement of CFJ 3411, I still do not > consider myself qualified to judge whether a dead once-a-person still > exists in some sense that would qualify as "person" here. > > It seems reasonable to assume that their no-longer-functional body > doesn't qualify, and neither does the portion of anyone else's mind that > continues to roughly emulate what their mind was like (fails the > "independent" part). > > But if their mind remains directly functional in some other sense, then > arguably that should still qualify as an "organism", and by definition > it would still be capable of freely originating independent thoughts and > ideas, and presumably also communicating them. (To whom? Can we > communicate with members of an uncontacted tribe, for instance? Surely > not within reasonable effort.) > > If someone dies but we don't know about it, then we simply remain in > Platonic error until/unless we implement an independent fix, similar to > the Annabel Crisis. It would be a good idea to implement such a fix here > (hopefully) well ahead of it actually becoming relevant. > > DISMISS. > > == > >
