DIS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Propositions 9073-9086

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

I couldn't add myself to the spreadsheet as I'm not listed there, nor do I
know if moving everything down a column and adding myself will affect the
formulas.

On Tue, Mar 26, 2024 at 2:06 PM Sarah S.  wrote:

> I vote as follows
> 9073~   Kate, Gaelan1.0   In case of unexpected nonplayerhood
> AGAINST (I literally don't understand what this does due to the formatting)
> 9074*   Janet   3.0   Close enough
> AGAINST, makes ruleset longer for little gain
> 9075*   nix, Janet, kiako   3.0   No Hidden Ownership Restrictions
> AGAINST, the current way is more intuitifve
> 9076*   nix 3.0   FUNgibility
> FOR
> 9077~   snail   1.0   Less Fragile Crystals
> FOR
> 9078~   Janet   1.0   Empire fixes
> PRESENT (should repeal imo)
> 9079~   nix, Janet, kiako   2.0   Spendies v1.1
> FOR
> 9080~   Gaelan, Kate1.0   One from the archives
> AGAINST, look at the webmastor office for reference at how little this
> will do
> 9081~   Gaelan  2.0   Don't humiliate the recently departed
> AGAINST
> 9082~   Gaelan  1.7   yes, yes, I got the memo
> FOR
> 9083*   Janet   3.0   SLR ratification 2023-12-31
> PRESENT
> 9084~   kiako   2.0   Oneironauts in the Ocean
> AGAINST will be superseded
> 9085~   ais523  1.0   Fix truthfulness loophole
> FOR
> 9086~   R. Lee  1.0   Trimming the most useless rule in the
> ruleset
> FOR
>
> On Tue, Mar 26, 2024 at 9:50 AM secretsnail9 via agora-official <
> agora-offic...@agoranomic.org> wrote:
>
>> PROMOTOR'S REPORT AS OF RIGHT NOW
>>
>> If you vote on a proposal, please edit this spreadsheet with your votes:
>>
>>
>> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1F39OHtBlZlQ8XVccqKCFtP-DPuHz4wPnujxbxkCN3LI/edit?usp=sharing
>>
>> I hereby distribute each listed proposal, initiating a referendum on it,
>> and removing it from the proposal pool. For each decision, the vote
>> collector is the Assessor, the quorum is 5, the voting method is
>> AI-majority, the adoption index is the adoption index of the associated
>> proposal, and the valid options are FOR and AGAINST (PRESENT is also a
>> valid vote, as are conditional votes).
>>
>>
>> ID  Author(s)   AITitle
>>
>> ---
>> 9073~   Kate, Gaelan1.0   In case of unexpected nonplayerhood
>> 9074*   Janet   3.0   Close enough
>> 9075*   nix, Janet, kiako   3.0   No Hidden Ownership Restrictions
>> 9076*   nix 3.0   FUNgibility
>> 9077~   snail   1.0   Less Fragile Crystals
>> 9078~   Janet   1.0   Empire fixes
>> 9079~   nix, Janet, kiako   2.0   Spendies v1.1
>> 9080~   Gaelan, Kate1.0   One from the archives
>> 9081~   Gaelan  2.0   Don't humiliate the recently
>> departed
>> 9082~   Gaelan  1.7   yes, yes, I got the memo
>> 9083*   Janet   3.0   SLR ratification 2023-12-31
>> 9084~   kiako   2.0   Oneironauts in the Ocean
>> 9085~   ais523  1.0   Fix truthfulness loophole
>> 9086~   R. Lee  1.0   Trimming the most useless rule in
>> the
>> ruleset
>>
>>
>>
>> [1]
>>
>>
>> The proposal pool contains the following proposals:
>>
>> ID  Author(s)   AITitle
>>
>> ---
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Legend: * : Democratic proposal.
>> ~ : Ordinary proposal.
>>
>> The full text of the aforementioned proposal(s) is included below. Where
>> the information shown below differs from the information shown above,
>> the information shown above shall control.
>>
>>
>> //
>> ID: 9073
>> Title: In case of unexpected nonplayerhood
>> Adoption Index: 1.0
>> Author: Kate
>> Co-authors: Gaelan
>>
>> In Rule 2492 (Recusal),
>>
>> s/deregistered/unregistered
>>
>> [Allows a judge to be removed if, through some mishap, the CFJ has
>>  been assigned to someone who has never been a player or who ceased to
>>  be a player through some means other than deregistration. Composition
>>  fully intended to annoy Janet, but I think completely effective under
>>  the new standard of "clear to a reasonable player".]
>>
>> //
>> ID: 9074
>> Title: Close enough
>> Adoption Index: 3.0
>> Author: Janet
>> Co-authors:
>>
>>
>> Amend Rule 105 by deleting the text " and the next change identifier".
>>
>> [Remove the reference to "change identifiers" (presumably just revision
>> numbers) for reenactment.]
>>
>>
>> Amend Rule 1681 by, as a single amendment, deleting the text ", revision
>> number, " and inserting the following paragraph after the paragraph
>> beginning "The listing of each rule in the SLR":

DIS: Re: BUS: [Collector] Stamp Raffle Results

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

I joined the raffle no?

- R.Lee

On Mon, 25 Mar 2024, 10:30 am secretsnail9 via agora-business, <
agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:

>  I publish the following Raffle Result.
>
> Raffle Participants:
> Mercury
>
> Raffle Winner:
> Mercury
> --
> snail
>

DIS: Re: BUS: Testing Agora of Empires @Everyone

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

On Sun, Mar 24, 2024 at 5:22 AM ais523 via agora-business <
agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> On Sun, 2024-03-24 at 05:08 +1100, Sarah S. via agora-business wrote:
> > I amend the Empireworld by announcement (progressing the narrative in
> > a
> > 'reasonable fashion' so it reads the following)
> >
> > I intend, without two objections, to win the game as the records of
> > Empireworld clearly demonstrate I have achieved 3 extraordinary feats
>
> I object. This isn't an interesting way to win the game (and I'm still
> not sure why we passed the proposal in the first place).
>
> --
> ais523
>

Agree that it's terribly uninteresting! I didn't vote for the proposal - I
couldn't vote on it. I was seeing if people would allow it to be applied as
written.

DIS: Re: BUS: Ah what the hell (Registrar, Dream Keeper)

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

On Sun, Mar 17, 2024 at 11:42 PM Sarah S. via agora-business <
agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> I register, claim a welcome package, and dream of Wealth
>

Sorry, this is R. Lee

--
R. Lee

DIS: @Arbitor @Herald: CFJ and Thesis Review Board

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

I declare my interest in judging CFJs and reviewing theses.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Herald] Granting Champion

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

On Wed, Feb 8, 2023 at 10:35 AM Ned Strange via agora-discussion <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 8, 2023 at 10:30 AM nix via agora-business <
> agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:
>
> > On 2/5/23 20:52, secretsnail9 via agora-business wrote:
> > > I notice the rock garden, specifying Murphy.
> >
> > I award Murphy the patent title of Champion. Currently planning to
> > record it as Rock Gardening.
> >
> > --
> > nix
> > Herald, Collector
> >
> >
> > There are already stone wins in the Scroll recorded as by 'Gauntlet',
> though after the flavor change that isn't ideal. But under many names and
> iterations of points we've still always used the name 'High Score', so all
> stone wins should have the same name. I suggest champion by Masonry for all
> of those wins.
>
> --
> From R. Lee
>

Of course this is me, from my old email.

--
R. Lee

DIS: Re: BUS: @Dream Keeper @Stonemason @Herald Stone Actions

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

On Thu, Feb 2, 2023 at 2:21 PM Sarah S. via agora-business <
agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> I have not possessed a stone within the last 30 days. I thus gain control
> of the Soul Stone, which is tied for the Highest Mossiness at 2. I wield
> the Soul Stone, targeting the Recursion Stone, which is owned by Murphy. I
> then wield the Recursion Stone specifying the power of the Hot Potato
> Stone, and choose to transfer the Stone (which is acting as the Potato
> Stone and thus transfers itself)  to Aced7,  This gains me 8 points,
> putting my total to 8 (the most recent report lists me as already having 2,
> but this is wrong as I was not then a player, and score is a player switch
> that goes to 0 every time you deregister).
>
> I also envision my dream to Gardens.
>

Snail already owned the Soul stone, this all failed except the envisioning
(I therefore have 0 points)

DIS: (Proto) Values

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

Create the following power 0.1 rule entitled "Agora's values".
edits/additions entirely welcome, i'm not the best writer at all.

{{Nothing in this rule creates a legal obligation.

Since Agora's founding over 30 years ago, Agorans have been making not only
a game but a certain form of society, with voting, judgements and norms to
match. As Agora is a democratic society, we value and respect difference
and dissent, As people who respect dissent, we are entirely opposed to
rancor, invective and personal abuse.. As people who respect difference, we
value differences of opinion. We also hold discrimination based on entirely
irrelevant characteristics including race, sex, gender and religion
completely repugnant and against everything we stand for. For over 30
years, our commitment to this principle has led us to use gender-neutral
pronouns, which you will find throughout these Rules.))

Re: DIS: A proto

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

Why do I always forget to send from.this damn email

On Thu, 1 Sep 2022, 10:25 Ned Strange,  wrote:

> I think that you don't need to ask 'hard questions' about why trans people
> are trans. I'm quite open about my gender and why I'm trans, but I don't
> think anything I have said in any way invited 'hard questions' to be posed
> about the subject. Sure, I have spoken from a more academic perspective
> about what I believe about gender and my own struggles with the subject -
> because I believed at that time I wouldn't receive absurd pushback from you
> or your ilk. I will not discuss those things again, which is actually quite
> sad for me because some of these people are my friends and I want to be
> open with my friends. There may be a forum for discussing 'hard questions'
> of gender and race - I believe the rest of us unanimously agree that any
> agora nomic forum is not it. Open discussion is one thing, but making
> strange insinuations about how trans women are actually men or randomly
> bringing up biological racial differences and blaming political correctness
> out of nowhere is not it, chief.
>
> On Wed, 31 Aug 2022, 18:48 Madrid via agora-discussion, <
> agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:
>
>> Before I get dogpiled for being called a "racist" - different races, in a
>> very general way, have different medical needs.
>>
>> What I mainly wanted to bring up back then was that it puts those in a
>> racial minority at a disadvantage when general medical culture seems
>> (often
>> unintentionally) catered towards a particular racial majority and
>> 'political correctness' silences voices that want to bring up that these
>> minorities generally have different inborn vulnerabilities than the
>> majority. It seems racist to say "darker skinned people need more sunlight
>> to be healthy". But it's true. I'm darker skinned myself, I want to know
>> these things to get the vitamin D I need! This doesn't only apply to skin
>> color, but ultimately, what's more important, political correctness, or
>> people's health?
>>
>> About trans people, I think I'm the only guy making hard questions about
>> the phenomenon. I curious about these things that people seem so hushed
>> about. Like, for example:
>>
>> Why are the vast majority of women on Agora, trans?
>>
>> Stone me, burn me on the stake, I am legitimately curious.
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 31, 2022, Sarah S. via agora-discussion <
>> agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:
>>
>> > On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 9:40 AM Sarah S. 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 3:32 AM Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion <
>> > > agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >>
>> > >> On 8/30/2022 9:25 AM, ais523 via agora-discussion wrote:
>> > >> > On Tue, 2022-08-30 at 18:14 +0200, Madrid via agora-discussion
>> wrote:
>> > >> >> Its true that I don't care much about upholding ancient tradition.
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> It's nomic, a game of change, and I'm very willing to see Spivak
>> > >> >> removed.
>> > >>
>> > >> [snip]
>> > >>
>> > >> > I probably wouldn't object to a widespread change to singular-they
>> if
>> > >> > the general view of the playerlist is that that would be
>> preferable,
>> > >> > but it would be likely to add a little extra confusion for no real
>> > >> > benefit (the distinction between singular "e" and plural "they"
>> makes
>> > >> > it easier to parse what a rule is saying).
>> > >> >
>> > >>
>> > >> Just as a minor clarification, I'm not arguing for Spivak per se
>> based
>> > on
>> > >> "ancient tradition" but more along the lines you suggest here, of
>> > >> evaluating our community standards continuously but generally
>> > >> respectfully.  The important point for me is that this is not just an
>> > >> isolated quibble over a single instance of language use (and a single
>> > >> unfortunate comparison), but rather an inability to reach a
>> reasonable
>> > >> accommodation with the current community's longstanding/currently-
>> > standing
>> > >> practices.
>> > >>
>> > >> That stuff is just exhausting and not fun in any gaming group, beyond
>> > an

Re: DIS: A proto

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 9:40 AM Sarah S.  wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 3:32 AM Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion <
> agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> On 8/30/2022 9:25 AM, ais523 via agora-discussion wrote:
>> > On Tue, 2022-08-30 at 18:14 +0200, Madrid via agora-discussion wrote:
>> >> Its true that I don't care much about upholding ancient tradition.
>> >>
>> >> It's nomic, a game of change, and I'm very willing to see Spivak
>> >> removed.
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> > I probably wouldn't object to a widespread change to singular-they if
>> > the general view of the playerlist is that that would be preferable,
>> > but it would be likely to add a little extra confusion for no real
>> > benefit (the distinction between singular "e" and plural "they" makes
>> > it easier to parse what a rule is saying).
>> >
>>
>> Just as a minor clarification, I'm not arguing for Spivak per se based on
>> "ancient tradition" but more along the lines you suggest here, of
>> evaluating our community standards continuously but generally
>> respectfully.  The important point for me is that this is not just an
>> isolated quibble over a single instance of language use (and a single
>> unfortunate comparison), but rather an inability to reach a reasonable
>> accommodation with the current community's longstanding/currently-standing
>> practices.
>>
>> That stuff is just exhausting and not fun in any gaming group, beyond any
>> historical points or future changes.
>>
>> -G.
>>
>> I personally support spivak - any change to referring to players always
> by the singular 'they' would probably offend me - I'm not a they, I'm a
> she. E/em pronouns, as something that are generally confined within the
> game, don't annoy me in the same way that 'they' would and I enjoy our odd
> little game pronouns. That said, Agora Is A Nomic and people are free to
> advocate changing to the use of preferred pronouns if they like - this
> doesn't bother me particularly much when Madrid does it. I too find them
> odd to adapt to (and get them wrong quite often), and blognomic did start
> with spivak then abolish them many years ago. And yes, I do think
> traditions ought to be questioned - a substantial majority of the player
> base is newer and if they choose to revise something that doesn't work for
> them, they should do so.
>
> What bothers me rather more is Madrid's attitude to trans people and women
> expressed on discord, which I think is quite consistently discriminatory. E
> has also made remarks about racial differences (deleted by moderator) which
> in my view were discriminatory. To be clear, I don't remotely feel
> emotionally threatened by Madrid, nor do I feel like e
> personally discriminates against or devalues other players including myself
> - which is why I don't want to ban em. E is, perhaps unfortunately, quite
> good at confining these conversations to the abstract. But I do want to
> make it clear that I think women ought not be needlessly sexualised, trans
> people should be accomodated, and ideologies that approach 'race-realism'
> are pernicious and entirely beyond the pale. These are sentences that I
> wouldn't think I would have to type to the agora nomic email server of all
> places, but I want to make what I think clear. I think it would be quite
> appropriate for agora as a whole to affirm in the rules that we are a
> diverse place and will always welcome anyone from any minority group. This
> is the sort of social norm I believe it would be appropriate to crystallise
> and enshrine for all time.
>


Upon reflection I probably shouldn't have sent this email, except perhaps
the last two sentences. It is adding fuel that certainly didn't need to be
added.

Re: DIS: A proto

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 3:32 AM Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:

>
> On 8/30/2022 9:25 AM, ais523 via agora-discussion wrote:
> > On Tue, 2022-08-30 at 18:14 +0200, Madrid via agora-discussion wrote:
> >> Its true that I don't care much about upholding ancient tradition.
> >>
> >> It's nomic, a game of change, and I'm very willing to see Spivak
> >> removed.
>
> [snip]
>
> > I probably wouldn't object to a widespread change to singular-they if
> > the general view of the playerlist is that that would be preferable,
> > but it would be likely to add a little extra confusion for no real
> > benefit (the distinction between singular "e" and plural "they" makes
> > it easier to parse what a rule is saying).
> >
>
> Just as a minor clarification, I'm not arguing for Spivak per se based on
> "ancient tradition" but more along the lines you suggest here, of
> evaluating our community standards continuously but generally
> respectfully.  The important point for me is that this is not just an
> isolated quibble over a single instance of language use (and a single
> unfortunate comparison), but rather an inability to reach a reasonable
> accommodation with the current community's longstanding/currently-standing
> practices.
>
> That stuff is just exhausting and not fun in any gaming group, beyond any
> historical points or future changes.
>
> -G.
>
> I personally support spivak - any change to referring to players always by
the singular 'they' would probably offend me - I'm not a they, I'm a she.
E/em pronouns, as something that are generally confined within the game,
don't annoy me in the same way that 'they' would and I enjoy our odd little
game pronouns. That said, Agora Is A Nomic and people are free to advocate
changing to the use of preferred pronouns if they like - this doesn't
bother me particularly much when Madrid does it. I too find them odd to
adapt to (and get them wrong quite often), and blognomic did start with
spivak then abolish them many years ago. And yes, I do think traditions
ought to be questioned - a substantial majority of the player base is newer
and if they choose to revise something that doesn't work for them, they
should do so.

What bothers me rather more is Madrid's attitude to trans people and women
expressed on discord, which I think is quite consistently discriminatory. E
has also made remarks about racial differences (deleted by moderator) which
in my view were discriminatory. To be clear, I don't remotely feel
emotionally threatened by Madrid, nor do I feel like e
personally discriminates against or devalues other players including myself
- which is why I don't want to ban em. E is, perhaps unfortunately, quite
good at confining these conversations to the abstract. But I do want to
make it clear that I think women ought not be needlessly sexualised, trans
people should be accomodated, and ideologies that approach 'race-realism'
are pernicious and entirely beyond the pale. These are sentences that I
wouldn't think I would have to type to the agora nomic email server of all
places, but I want to make what I think clear. I think it would be quite
appropriate for agora as a whole to affirm in the rules that we are a
diverse place and will always welcome anyone from any minority group. This
is the sort of social norm I believe it would be appropriate to crystallise
and enshrine for all time.

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Herald] Scroll of Agora, Jan 2022

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

On Mon, Mar 14, 2022 at 11:10 AM ais523 via agora-discussion <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> On Thu, 2022-02-03 at 01:54 +, nix via agora-official wrote:
> >   LONG SERVICE AWARDS
> >  Three Months: ais523, Alexis, aranea, Aris, ATMunn, BobTHJ,
> >Falsifian, G., Iammers, Jason, Michael, Murphy,
> >nix, omd, OscarMeyr, PerlNomic Partnership,
> >Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, root, Sgeo,
> >Sherlock, Taral, the AFO, Tiger, Trigon, woggle,
> >Wooble, Yally, Zefram
> >Six Months: ais523, Alexis, aranea, Aris, Falsifian, G.,
> >Jason, Michael, Murphy, omd, OscarMeyr,
> >PerlNomic Partnership, root, Sherlock, Trigon,
> >woggle, Wooble, Yally, Zefram
> >   Nine Months: aranea, Aris, Falsifian, G., Jason, Michael,
> >Murphy, omd, OscarMeyr, root, Trigon, woggle,
> >Wooble, Zefram
> > Twelve Months: Aris, Falsifian, G., Jason, Michael, Murphy, omd,
> >OscarMeyr, root, Trigon, Wooble, Zefram
>
> We used to award these semi-automatically to anyone who had held an
> office for a sufficiently long time, without significantly neglecting
> any of its duties.
>
> Perhaps it would make sense to bring it back and/or bring it more up to
> date? We have some newer players who have held offices for a while, but
> not been placed on the record appropriately, and it seems unfair to
> favour players simply because they were around when the awards existed.
>
> --
> ais523
>
>
Yes, I agree. We do have a title called Hard Labour enumerated in the
ruleset, along with a bunch of other neglected officer titles as well.
Officers, get on it


-- 
--
R. Lee

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Proposal] Scoring Integer Points

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 9:45 PM Aspen via agora-discussion <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 1:41 AM Sarah S. via agora-discussion <
> agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 6:47 PM secretsnail9 via agora-business <
> > agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> >
> > > I submit the below proposal, and then pay a pendant to pend it:
> > >
> > > Title: Scoring Integer Points
> > > Author: secretsnail
> > > Coauthors:
> > > AI : 1.0
> > >
> > > {
> > >
> > > Amend Rule 2657 (Scoring) by replacing "add to that player's score the
> > > associated amount of points" with "add to that player's score the floor
> > of
> > > the associated amount of points".
> > >
> > > (This would let players score points for proposals with non-integer
> AIs.)
> > >
> > > }
> > >
> > > --
> > > secretsnail
> > >
> >
> > im telling on myself here but idk what 'the floor' means in this
> context. i
> > assume it's mathematical?
>
>
> "The floor of X" means "X rounded down to the nearest integer". Ceiling is
> the same, but rounded up. They pop up in math and computer programming.
>
> -Aspen
>

i'd prefer it written out like that because i wouldn't really understand
its meaning if i read it in the ruleset. but it has been pended already so
no big deal, it's just me being a word person instead of a numbers person.

obviously its a very necessary bugfix anyway.
--
R. Lee

DIS: Re: BUS: [Proposal] Scoring Integer Points

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 6:47 PM secretsnail9 via agora-business <
agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> I submit the below proposal, and then pay a pendant to pend it:
>
> Title: Scoring Integer Points
> Author: secretsnail
> Coauthors:
> AI : 1.0
>
> {
>
> Amend Rule 2657 (Scoring) by replacing "add to that player's score the
> associated amount of points" with "add to that player's score the floor of
> the associated amount of points".
>
> (This would let players score points for proposals with non-integer AIs.)
>
> }
>
> --
> secretsnail
>

im telling on myself here but idk what 'the floor' means in this context. i
assume it's mathematical?
--
R. Lee

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] Recusal of cuddlybanana from CFJ 3941, assigned to G.

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

On Tue, Feb 15, 2022 at 8:40 AM Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:

>
> On 2/10/2022 7:52 PM, secretsnail9 via agora-official wrote:
> > I recuse cuddlybanana from CFJ 3941, and note that an apology or
> > explanation is in order.
> >
> > I assign G. to be the judge of CFJ 3941. ("Rule 2465 is a Device.")
>
> proto-judgement:
>
> First, "the device" (the switch) is different than "a device".
> Critically, "the device" (with the definite article) is not part of the
> general set of "devices", but rather distinct, so rules that refer to
> "devices" generally do not apply to "the device" switch.  This is fairly
> clear from R2655 (The Mad Engineer) which defines the device (switch) and
> always refers to it using the definite article.  I find in the context of
> the current rules, that difference is substantial and not a minor
> grammatical point.[*]
>
> Second, this may go without saying, but R2654 (The Device) is not a device
> or The Device by virtue of its title alone - that's just a label for a
> rule, not a definition of a rule.
>
> Third, this judgement does not opine on whether "voting devices", or
> "Agoran devices" or "Platinum devices" etc. fit into the set of devices
> referred to individually as "a device".
>
> With those preliminaries, the text in question is:
> * A Device is an entity with positive Power.
>
> Further, a look at R2654 at the time of the CFJ shows that this bullet
> stands on its own (it is not contextual with previous or following list
> items).
>
> This mirrors the text in R1688:
>   An instrument is an entity with positive Power.
>
> That text is taken as the definitional description of "instrument".  There
> is no contradictory text indicating another definition for "instrument",
> so this straightforwardly defines the term.
>
> The mirror text, then, is similarly clear - it defines "a device" as a
> term for entities with positive power.  Furthermore, all of the other
> clauses referring to "devices" talk about additional abilities for devices
> without being definitions.  So there is nothing in the rules to contradict
> the basic definitional idea that "a device" is an additional term for an
> "entity with positive power".
>
> TRUE.
>
> [*] An example here is the distinguishing of "The Lord" from "a lord".  If
> you were speaking about the House of Lords, you'd say "the lords moved to
> adjourn" without meaning to include The Lord, and the fact that "the
> lords..." uses the definite article without the set including "The Lord"
> is reasonably clear from context.
>
>
>
> I don't read "A Device is an entity with positive power" as saying that
Device = entity with positive power (the two terms are synonyms). Rather
it's describing an attribute of Devices - a Device is a type of instrument
and it has positive power. Admittedly the only difference between the
instrument text and Device text is contextual and the Device rules are
intentionally gibberish nonsense with no rules. If I was more naturally
writing the instruments rule I would write it 'Entities with positive power
are also known as Instruments" or something, although its meaning is clear
in context.

Like if I said "A strawberry is a fruit with red coloring" that wouldn't
mean all red fruits are strawberries and that's precisely the same as this
rule here.
--
R. Lee

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Herald] HIGH SCORES - Feb 10, 2022 - "Everyone's a Winner" Edition

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 12:01 PM nix via agora-discussion <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> On 2/9/22 18:59, nix via agora-official wrote:
> > PLACE   NAME   SCORE   CHANGE
>
> This is the first pass at this report. Constructive feedback appreciated.
>
>
> --
> nix
> Herald
>
> Please make my 3 letter name LEE.

Thanks,

-- 
--
R. Lee

DIS: Re: BUS: [@Rulekeepor] Re: OFF: [Mad Engineer] Intent to Invent

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

Must be noted that I don't think anything whatsoever that's in the FLR that
isn't in the SLR has legal effect

On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 6:58 PM ais523 via agora-business <
agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> On Sun, 2022-01-02 at 03:10 +, ais523 via agora-official wrote:
> > I intend, with Agoran Consent, to cause rule 2655 to amend the rule
> > "The Device" by appending the following as a list item to the "When the
> > device is off:" list:
> > {{{
> >   The Rulekeepor SHOULD also include any other information which e
> >   feels may be helpful in the use of the Device in the FLR.
> > }}}
>
> With Agoran Consent, I do so. (Jason supported; there were no
> objections.)
>
> --
> ais523
> Mad Engineer
>
>

-- 
--
R. Lee

DIS: Re: BUS: [DoV] Dawn of a New Day

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

On Mon, Jan 3, 2022 at 1:11 PM Aspen via agora-business <
agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> Last year, there were a few days that held great personal significance
> for me. As of the 13th of September, I had been a player for five
> years. Just over a month later, on the 21st of October, I had been
> your Promotor for five years as well.
>
> Now, as I watch the winter holiday end and a new year begin in Agora
> for the fifth time, I feel something coming over me. I have
> accomplished a lot in Agora. I like it here. My fellow players are
> pretty cool. The moment these happy thoughts cross my mind, I feel the
> inexorable power of my spirit lifting me upward.
>
> I award myself a white ribbon.
>
> I Raise a Banner.
>
> -Aspen
>

Well played
-- 
--
R. Lee

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Mad Engineer weekly random rule selection

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

"   The Arbitor is an office, responsible for the administration of
  justice in a manner that is fair for the Device, if not for the rest
  of Agora."

On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 4:25 AM Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:

>
> On 11/15/2021 8:48 AM, Trigon via agora-discussion wrote:
> > El 15/11/2021 a las 15:02, ais523 via agora-discussion escribió:
> >> On Mon, 2021-11-15 at 16:00 +0100, nethack4.org dicebot via agora-
> >> business wrote:
> >>
> >> Lots of nice short sentences here, so it may well be possible to come
> >> up with something that works quite well.
> >>
> >
> > Suggestions:
> >
> > (1) funny, but may take a lot of upkeep from officers
> >> When an open device's judge is unassigned, the Arbitor CAN assign any
> >> eligible player to be its judge by announcement, and SHALL do so in a >
> timely fashion after it becomes an open and unassigned device.
> >
> > (2) similar appeal, but less upkeep
> >> If a device has no judge assigned, then any player eligible to judge >
> that device CAN assign it to emself without 3 objections.
> >
> > either of these could lead to fun CFJs.
> >
>
> If these are implemented, I wonder if we could make the argument that the
> device has a whole separate judicial process for determining how it works.
>  I think this could be done in common law - i.e. if something like the
> above is inserted (either option), an actual CFJ about the device could be
> judged "DISMISS - ask the device's assigned judge instead" to set the
> precedent.
>
> -G.
>
>

-- 
--
R. Lee

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Mad Engineer weekly random rule selection

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

i know it wouldnt do anything (yet), yes

On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 1:25 PM Ørjan Johansen via agora-discussion <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> On Tue, 9 Nov 2021, Sarah S. via agora-discussion wrote:
>
> > "Device is secured with Power Threshold 3."
>
> Conflicts with Rule 1688, which only allows Thresholds lower than the
> Power of the securing Rule.
>
> Greetings,
> Ørjan.
>


-- 
--
R. Lee

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Mad Engineer weekly random rule selection

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

"Device is secured with Power Threshold 3."


On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 1:33 PM Falsifian via agora-discussion <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 08, 2021 at 12:04:11AM +, ais523 via agora-discussion
> wrote:
> > On Mon, 2021-11-08 at 01:02 +0100, nethack4.org dicebot via agora-
> > business wrote:
> > > The dice roll was: 24
> > > This is R1551, Ratification.
> >
> > For reference:
> > {{{
> >   When a document or statement (hereafter "document") is ratified,
> >   rules to the contrary notwithstanding, the gamestate is modified
> >   to what it would be if, at the time the ratified document was
> >   published, the gamestate had been minimally modified to make the
> >   ratified document as true and accurate as possible; however, if
> >   the document explicitly specifies a different past time as being
> >   the time the document was true, the specified time is used to
> >   determine the minimal modifications. Such a modification cannot
> >   add inconsistencies between the gamestate and the rules, and it
> >   cannot include rule changes unless the ratified document
> >   explicitly and unambiguously recites either the changes or the
> >   resulting properties of the rule(s). If no such modification is
> >   possible, or multiple substantially distinct possible
> >   modifications would be equally appropriate, the ratification
> >   fails.
> >
> >   An internally inconsistent document generally cannot be ratified;
> >   however, if such a document can be divided into a summary section
> >   and a main section, where the only purpose of the summary section
> >   is to summarize information in the main section, and the main
> >   section is internally consistent, ratification of the document
> >   proceeds as if it contained only the main section.
> >
> >   Text purportedly about previous instances of ratification (e.g. a
> >   report's date of last ratification) is excluded from ratification.
> >   The rules may define additional information that is considered to
> >   be part of the document for the purposes of ratification; such
> >   definitions are secured at a Power Threshold of 3.
> >
> >   Ratification is secured with Power Threshold 3.
> > }}}
> >
> > A pity that the sentences are so long on average, which somewhat limits
> > what we can do with this. Any suggestions?
> >
> > --
> > ais523
> > Mad Engineer
>
> Text purportedly about previous instances of device (e.g. a report's
> date of last device) is excluded from device.
>
> Not quite grammatical, but maybe it would interact with the device
> ceasing to exist.
>
> --
> Falsifian
>


-- 
--
R. Lee

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Mad Engineer weekly random rule selection

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

  "The Notary CAN destroy a device Without Objection, but SHOULD NOT
  do so unless the device no longer serves any significant purpose."

On Mon, Nov 1, 2021 at 12:27 PM Jason Cobb via agora-discussion <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> On 10/31/21 20:59, ais523 via agora-discussion wrote:
> > On Sun, 2021-10-31 at 17:47 -0700, Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion
> > wrote:
> >> The self-destruct timer is hard to resist:
> >>>The time window of a device is W days, where W is the value
> >>>explicitly stated by the device, or 60 if the device does not
> >>>explicitly state a value. A device ceases to exist at the end of
> >>>its time window.
> >> (not sure I'd support it tho).
> > I'm not entirely sure what would happen if the self-destruct expired -
> > it would cause the device to cease to exist, but it couldn't modify the
> > rules defining it (it doesn't meet R105's requirement to post the full
> > text of the change).
> >
> > Rule 2654 does win precedence battles with rule 2655, which is the more
> > interesting way round for it to happen (if the numbers were the other
> > way round, I'd say this change would unambiguously do nothing).
> >
> > The *other* interesting thing about this is, of course, that it only
> > works while the device is in a given position, which complicates
> > matters still further (especially if the Device doesn't exist at the
> > time).
> >
> > As a side note, "ceases to exist at the end of its time window" appears
> > to be a point check - it wouldn't cause it to cease to exist *after*
> > the end of its time window. The Device will have existed for more than
> > 60 days by the time the intent can be resolved, but it's unclear at
> > what point in time the time window would start.
> >
> > All in all, a very fertile ground for CFJs! The main drawback would be
> > a risk of accidentally ending things early, but it couldn't destroy the
> > rules defining the Device - just potentially the Device itself, and we
> > could presumably recreate it by proposal.
> >
>
> I don't think the sole instance of a singleton switch can be permanently
> destroyed by an instantaneous destruction. Even if the destruction
> worked, the rule defining the switch should immediately recreate it (in
> the same way that it immediately creates it when first coming into
> effect after being enacted).
>
> --
> Jason Cobb
>
> Assessor, Rulekeepor, S​tonemason
>
>

-- 
--
R. Lee

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Mad Engineer weekly random rule selection

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

Use the first sentence and replace Rule with Device. A royal
paradeimbued in this very Device. The rulekeepor should place this
Device.

On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 11:12 AM ais523 via agora-discussion <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> On Mon, 2021-10-25 at 02:07 +0200, nethack4.org dicebot via agora-
> business wrote:
> > The dice roll was: 82
> > This is R2486, The Royal Parade.
>
> For reference:
>
> {{{ _
>   _\ /_
>   >_X_<
>.---._  /_\  _.---.
>  /`.---._`{/ \}`_.---.`\
> | /   ___`{\_/}`___   \ |
> \ \."`*  `"{_}"`  *`"./ /
>  \ \  )\  _\ /_  /(  / /
>   \ *<()( >_X_< )()>* /
>|._)/._./_\._.\(_.|
>   jgs  |() () () () () ()|
><><>><>
>   `"""`
>IN CELEBRATION of Alexis being crowned Princess of Agora,
> without prejudice to Any before or since
> who may come to hold a Title
> whether Patent or otherwise;
>   IT IS HEREBY PROCLAIMED that a Royal Parade be established,
> imbued in this very Rule,
> which shall travel around Agora to Rules of import;
>   AND THEREFORE, the Rulekeepor SHOULD place this Rule
> near recently-amended rules of high Power;
>   AND FURTHERMORE, additions to this Parade are most welcome
>when Events suiting the honour should occur.
>   NEXT UP in the Parade comes the Discordian Court:  G. the
>Grand Vizier is arguing with Jason the Untitled, while
>nix, Court Anarchist, is cramming cancelled ballots into
>eir pockets.
> }}}
>
> I don't think this rule is particularly suited to the Mad Scientist
> fomat, but I have to try anyway. Any suggestions?
>
> As far as I can tell, there are only two sentences here. The second one
> may be easier to work with than the first, but text replacements aren't
> going to do a whole lot for either of them.
>
> --
> ais523
> Mad Scientist
>
>

-- 
--
R. Lee

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Registrar] Weekly Report

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

Did I delete the watchers section in error? Sorry Orjan.

On Sat, Oct 16, 2021 at 2:07 PM Ørjan Johansen via agora-discussion <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> On Fri, 15 Oct 2021, Shy Owl via agora-official wrote:
>
> > Below is the registrar's weekly report.
>
> > Fora
> > 
> >
> > The publicity switch values (Rule 478) are self-ratifying.
> >
> > PublicityLocation or description Typical use
> > ---- ---
> > Public   agora-official at agoranomic.orgofficial reports
> > Public   agora-business at agoranomic.orgother business
> > Discussion   agora-discussion at agoranomic.org  discussion
> > Discussion   https://discord.gg/JCC6YGc  discussion
> > Foreign* irc://irc.libera.chat:6667/##nomic  discussion
> > Public   agora at listserver.tue.nl  backup
> > Public   agoranomic at groups.io **  backup
> >
> > *This is the current IRC forum. We may replace it with another, but in
> > the long run one IRC channel or another will be made a discussion forum.
> >
> > **The forum is specifically just that email list. From the message that
> > made it public: "Note that although groups.io provides many features
> > besides email, the forum I am referring to is specifically the email
> > list: if something doesn't get to Gio's subscribers by email, it wasn't
> > sent via Gio.
> >
> > Subscribe or unsubscribe from main
> > lists:http://www.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo
> >
> > Subscribe or unsubscribe from tue.nl backup
> > list:http://listserver.tue.nl/mailman/listinfo/agora
>
> > The IRC channel does not require subscription; set your IRC client to
> > server irc.freenode.net, port 6667, channel ##nomic, and whatever
> > nickname you like.
>
> This is missing the server name correction from the previous Registrar's
> report.
>
> Also, it's still (correctly) foreign after the move.  I seem to recall
> people waiting for it to be properly registrered at liberachat (possibly
> with a different name), and having asked liberachat's chanserv, it seems
> that hasn't happened yet?
>
> > Watchers
> > 
>
> Thanks for bringing back this section.
>
> Greetings,
> Ørjan.
>


-- 
--
R. Lee

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: humble agoran farmer makes more deals

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

I think the contract still works without you being a party to it

On Sat, Oct 9, 2021 at 5:07 AM Cuddle Beam via agora-business <
agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> I leave Trapvotes, cheers
>
> On Thu, Sep 23, 2021 at 8:27 PM Cuddle Beam  wrote:
>
> > I create the following contract called Trapvotes:
> >
> > -+-
> >
> > Cuddlebeam and the person who is the Blognomic player "Trapdoorspyder"
> (also here named as simply 'Trapdoorspyder') are the only persons that can
> become members of this contract, and can do so by announcement.
> >
> > Cuddlebeam can act on behalf of Trapdoorspyder to submit a ballot with a
> vote of his (Cuddlebeam's) choice. Cuddlebeam can act on behalf of
> Trapdoorspyder to cast a vote of his (Cuddlebeam's) choice. Cuddlebeam can
> act on behalf of Trapdoorspyder to activate Trapdoorspyder.
> >
> > After 6 months have passed since the creation of this contract, any
> party to this contract can destroy it by announcement. Any party to this
> contract can leave it by announcement.
> >
> > -+-
> >
> >
> >
>


-- 
--
R. Lee

DIS: Re: BUS: Just in Case

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 1:48 PM Aspen via agora-business <
agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 6, 2021 at 7:39 PM Falsifian via agora-business <
> agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Oct 05, 2021 at 12:44:47PM -0400, Jason Cobb via agora-business
> > wrote:
> > > I intend, with 4 support from other players who own at least 2 types of
> > > ribbon, to start a Rank 2 Festival.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jason Cobb
> > >
> > > Assessor, Rulekeepor, Stonemason
> >
> > I support. (I haven't really been following, but if someone wants to
> > start a festival, then sure.)
>
>
> I do so. Let the festivities commence!
>
> -Aspen
>
> >
>
Maybe this was a terrible idea given two non-puppet new players (shy owl
and benbot) just joined?

-- 
--
R. Lee

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Unsuspicious Apathy Intent

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

On Tue, Oct 5, 2021 at 11:58 AM Ørjan Johansen via agora-discussion <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> On Mon, 4 Oct 2021, Jason Cobb via agora-business wrote:
>
> > I intend, without objection, to declare Apathy.
>
> Ouch. I pity the judge that gets to sort this out.
>
> Greetings,
> Ørjan.
>

what's different about this intent compared to the usual?
-- 
--
R. Lee

DIS: Re: BUS: Four years of three sides

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 3:38 PM Trigon via agora-business <
agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> It was my birthday on the 24th. I am now four years old. My association
> with Agora and Nomic in general has honestly changed my life in so many
> ways. All of you are amazing, and I am honored to have played with you
> for this long.
>
> --
> Trigon
>
>   ¸¸.•*¨*• Play AGORA QUEST
>
> 
> 
> 
>
> I’m always happy to become a party to contracts.
> I LOVE SPAGHETTI
> transfer Jason one coin
> nch was here
> I hereby
> don't... trust... the dragon...
> don't... trust... the dragon...
> Do not Construe Jason's message with subject TRIGON as extending this
>

nice, you have been here a long time

--
R. Lee

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Mad Engineer weekly random rule selection

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 10:16 AM ais523 via agora-discussion <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> On Mon, 2021-09-27 at 02:00 +0200, nethack4.org dicebot via agora-
> business wrote:
> > The dice roll was: 140
> > This is R2646, Activity.
>
> For reference:
>
> {{{
>   Activity is a player switch tracked by the Registrar, with values
>   Active (default) and Inactive.  To flip a player's activity to
>   active (inactive) is to activate (deactivate) em.  The date on
>   which each player's activity was last changed is part of the
>   Registrar's weekly report.
>
>   A player CAN activate or deactivate emself by announcement.
>
>   Any player CAN, with notice, make a player who has not made a
>   public announcement in the past 30 days inactive.
>
>   If a player has been inactive continuously for the past 60 days,
>   then any player CAN deregister em without 3 objections. The
>   Registrar SHOULD attempt to deregister players who meet this
>   condition. The publication of intent for such a deregistration
>   SHOULD be sent to the inactive player's registered email address
>   at the same time that it is published.
> }}}
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> --
> ais523
> Mad Engineer
>
>
The most chaotic one would be 'Activity is a player device tracked by the
Registrar' - that would be impossible to figure out. Or 'A device CAN
activate emself by announcement'
-- 
--
R. Lee

DIS: Re: BUS: Deregister [attn: Registrar]

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 12:44 AM D. Wet via agora-business <
agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> I deregister as a player because Trapdoorspyder explicitly claimed a
> welcome package in his registering message.
> --
> D. Wet
> www.nomica.nl
>
what? why?
--
R. Lee

DIS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Rewards for Proposals 8603-8606

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 12:33 PM Jason Cobb via agora-official <
agora-offic...@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> For the adoption of Proposal 8603, I grant Jason 8-0=8 boatloads of coins.
> For the adoption of Proposal 8604, I grant R. Lee 3-1=2 boatloads of coins.
> For the adoption of Proposal 8605, I grant G. 6-0=6 boatloads of coins.
>
> --
> Jason Cobb
>
> Assessor, Rulekeepor, Stonemason
>


Did granting me coins give them to the L dept or did it just not work?


--
R. Lee

DIS: Re: BUS: (@adop, @tailor) Ministor Election Resolution

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 11:21 AM Kerim Aydin via agora-business <
agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:

>
> On 9/19/2021 4:40 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > Having received 2 support, I initiate an election for Ministor.
> >
> > I nominate myself.
> >
> > -G.
>
> Being the only candidate following the closing of the nomination period, I
> declare myself the winner of the Ministor election.
>
> I award myself an Emerald Ribbon.
>
> -G.
>
> you should take referee

-- 
--
R. Lee

DIS: Re: OFF: [Notary] The Notes (contracts)

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

I intend to shred without 2 objections each contract which I am a member of

On Wed, Sep 22, 2021, 2:06 AM ATMunn via agora-official <
agora-offic...@agoranomic.org> wrote:

>
> ██   ██ ███   ███   ██  █   ███  ██
>   ████   ██ ██  ██ ██   ██████  ██
>   █████ █ ██ ██ ██ ██   ██████
>   ████   ██ ████   ██   ██████   ██
>   ████   ██ ███   ██   ███  █ █████ ██
>
>   -~= Notary's weekly report =~-
>
> 
>
>   ~~ Shoutout to Telna for putting eir promise in the format ~~
>   that I use in these reports so I have less work to do.
>
> All times and dates in this report are given in Coordinated Universal
> Time (UTC).
>
> Date of last report: 14 Sep 2021
> Date of this report:
>
>
> If any contract(s) have no name currently, I assign it/them the name(s)
> displayed in this report.
>
> 
> === SHORT LIST OF CONTRACTS 
> 
> Contracts marked with an asterisk (*) are charities.
>
>   Title   Parties
> "The Dragon Corporation" Aspen, Jason, Falsifian
> "TPP"[1] Cuddlebeam, G., Jason, Falsifian, Aspen
> "LoAFER"[2]Trigon, Jason, ATMunn
> "Cuddlebeam's Locker" Cuddlebeam
> "SEAMSTRESS"[3]   Trigon, nix, Jason
> "Dragon QuickExchange" Falsifian
> "SNOCS"[4]   omd, ATMunn, Gaelan
> "Dragon Political Outreach" Falsifian, Jason
> "The Platonic Parrot"ATMunn, omd, Cuddlebeam
> "I bet that was written by G."   omd, ATMunn
> * "Agoran Press"Falsifian, Murphy, Telna, ATMunn
> "The Splat Market" Gaelan, ATMunn, nix, Jason, Falsifian
> "Humble Agoran Farming"   Cuddlebeam, Trigon, Falsifian, Gaelan, ... [5]
> "The Orchard"   Cuddlebeam, Jason, Gaelan, Murphy, Lucidiot, ... [6]
> "FIAA"[7] Aspen, Trigon, ATMunn, nix, Cuddlebeam
> "Boatloans"   Gaelan
> "Obstructive Pooling"   Falsifian, Jason, ATMunn
> "Nathan's Locker" Nathan
> "Cuddlebeam's Sandwich"   Cuddlebeam
> "Cuddle Cabal"  Cuddlebeam, cuddlybanana
> "Jumblebeam Deal" Cuddlebeam, Jumble
> "Lee's Card Shop" R. Lee
> "Now We Nomic"Cuddlebeam
> "The Pointkeepor" G.
> "contract with cuddlybananaq"   R. Lee, cuddlybanana
>
>
> [1] The Plunder Partnership
> [2] League of Agorans Facilitating Effective Recordkeeping
> [3] Signature Enthusiast Allows Modification of Signature Through
> Rigorous Exchanging of Signature Suggestions
> [4] Simple, No-Opportunity-Cost Sets
> [5] also Aspen, Murphy, Lucidiot
> [6] also G., Telna, cuddlybanana
> [7] Food Industry Association of Agora
> 
>
>
> 
>  COMBINED HISTORY OF CONTRACTS =
> 
>
> 21 Sep 2021: Cuddlebeam destroyed "Secret Dealings"
> 21 Sep 2021: Cuddlebeam destroyed "Intent Assassin"
> 21 Sep 2021: Cuddlebeam destroyed "THE BUTTON"
> 21 Sep 2021: Cuddlebeam destroyed "Anime Powers"
> 21 Sep 2021: Cuddlebeam destroyed "A Contractual Agreement"
> -- time of last report --
> 13 Sep 2021: Cuddlebeam created "Anime Powers"
> 11 Sep 2021: R. lee shredded eir contract
> 09 Sep 2021: Falsifian ceased to be a party to "THE BUTTON"
> 09 Sep 2021: Falsifian became a party to "THE BUTTON"
> 09 Sep 2021: Cuddlebeam created "THE BUTTON"
> 05 Sep 2021: cuddlybanana became a party to "contract with cuddlybananaq"
> 05 Sep 2021: R. Lee created "contract with cuddlybananaq"
> 05 Sep 2021: cuddlybanana became a party to R. Lee's contract
> 05 Sep 2021: R. Lee created a contract
> -- 2 reports ago --
> 29 Aug 2021: Jason shredded the contract "Joebeam Deal"
> 24 Aug 2021: G. created "The Pointkeepor"
> -- 3 reports ago --
>
> 
>
>
> 

DIS: Re: BUS: Mad Engineer weekly random rule selection

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 10:18 AM nethack4.org dicebot via agora-business <
agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> This is an automated selection of a random rule from Agora's ruleset,
> as part of the Mad Engineer's weekly duties.
> Randomizing from 145 rules.
>
> Assignment of dice rolls to rules:
> 1:R101; 2:R103; 3:R104; 4:R105; 5:R106; 6:R107; 7:R208; 8:R217;
> 9:R478; 10:R591; 11:R649; 12:R683; 13:R693; 14:R869; 15:R879;
> 16:R911; 17:R955; 18:R991; 19:R1006; 20:R1023; 21:R1030; 22:R1051;
> 23:R1367; 24:R1551; 25:R1586; 26:R1607; 27:R1681; 28:R1688; 29:R1698;
> 30:R1727; 31:R1728; 32:R1742; 33:R1769; 34:R1789; 35:R1950; 36:R2029;
> 37:R2034; 38:R2124; 39:R2125; 40:R2127; 41:R2137; 42:R2138; 43:R2139;
> 44:R2140; 45:R2141; 46:R2143; 47:R2152; 48:R2154; 49:R2160; 50:R2162;
> 51:R2166; 52:R2168; 53:R2175; 54:R2201; 55:R2202; 56:R2221; 57:R2231;
> 58:R2240; 59:R2246; 60:R2327; 61:R2350; 62:R2379; 63:R2415; 64:R2422;
> 65:R2423; 66:R2429; 67:R2438; 68:R2449; 69:R2450; 70:R2451; 71:R2456;
> 72:R2463; 73:R2464; 74:R2465; 75:R2466; 76:R2471; 77:R2472; 78:R2478;
> 79:R2480; 80:R2481; 81:R2483; 82:R2486; 83:R2492; 84:R2493; 85:R2495;
> 86:R2496; 87:R2499; 88:R2505; 89:R2509; 90:R2518; 91:R2519; 92:R2528;
> 93:R2531; 94:R2545; 95:R2553; 96:R2555; 97:R2556; 98:R2557; 99:R2559;
> 100:R2566; 101:R2573; 102:R2575; 103:R2576; 104:R2577; 105:R2578;
> 106:R2579; 107:R2581; 108:R2582; 109:R2585; 110:R2595; 111:R2602;
> 112:R2603; 113:R2605; 114:R2606; 115:R2608; 116:R2614; 117:R2616;
> 118:R2617; 119:R2618; 120:R2620; 121:R2621; 122:R2622; 123:R2623;
> 124:R2624; 125:R2625; 126:R2629; 127:R2630; 128:R2631; 129:R2632;
> 130:R2634; 131:R2635; 132:R2636; 133:R2638; 134:R2640; 135:R2641;
> 136:R2642; 137:R2643; 138:R2644; 139:R2645; 140:R2646; 141:R2649;
> 142:R2651; 143:R2653; 144:R2654; 145:R2655.
>
> The dice roll was: 34
> This is R1789, Cantus Cygneus.
>
> --
> ruleroller.pl v0.1.  For source code,
> see 
> and .
>

wow, topical!

-- 
--
R. Lee

DIS: Re: BUS: So does glitter work at all? [@Arbitor, Tailor]

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 2:24 PM ais523 via agora-business <
agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> I award myself Blue Glitter. (I judged CFJ 3925 recently, already have
> a Blue Ribbon, and have not tried to claim Blue Glitter since.)
>
> CFJ: The Tailor SHALL and CAN grant me coins as a consequence of my
> Blue Glitter award earlier in this message.
>
> Evidence: this message, and the following quote from the online FLR:
> {{{
> Rule 2602/7 (Power=1)
> Glitter
>
>   "Each type of Ribbon has a corresponding type of Glitter with the
>   same name. A player qualifies for a type of Glitter when e
>   qualifies for the same type of Ribbon while already owning such a
>   Ribbon. If a player has not been awarded that type of Ribbon or e
>   corresponding type of Glitter since e last earned or came to
>   qualify for that type of Ribbon, and has not been so awarded five
>   or more times within the past 24 hours, any player CAN award em
>   that type of Glitter by announcement. When a player gains a type
>   of Glitter, the Tailor SHALL in an officially timely fashion and
>   CAN once by announcement award em N/2 boatloads of coins rounded
>   up, where N is the number of players that did not own the
>   corresponding type of Ribbon at the time of the award. The amount
>   payable for each type of Glitter is tracked in the Tailor's
>   weekly report.
>
> Rule 2577/6 (Power=3), exerpt
> Asset Actions
>
>   For an entity to gain (historical syn. earn) an asset is for that
>   asset to be created in that entity's possession. To grant an
>   entity an asset is to create it in eir possession.
> }}}
>
> Arguments:
> {{{
> The version of Rule 2602 on the online FLR is a mess. In addition to an
> unmatched double quote, it starts by defining the circumstances in
> which a player "qualifies" for glitter, but then probably ignores them
> (it may be that an oddly placed "that" is trying to point to this
> definition). It then continues by saying that a player can be "awarded"
> glitter if they haven't had glitter for a redundant earning of a
> Ribbon. That's the action I took in the message where I called this
> CFJ.
>
> However, the Tailor's coin reward is based on "gaining" glitter. What
> relationship does this have to being awarded it? The term "award" is
> normally used for Ribbons and for Patent Titles, whereas "gain" is
> typically used for assets; neither a Ribbon nor a Patent Title is an
> asset. "Gain" is mentioned in the definition of the White Ribbon,
> though. Rule 2577 mentions "gain" as a historical synonym for "earn",
> which doesn't really help matters much (it may make the White Ribbon's
> definition easier to understand, but maybe not); also, defining
> something as a historical synonym doesn't necessarily imply that the
> synonym exists now.
>
> If being "awarded" glitter causes you to "gain" it, then is the glitter
> itself some sort of tracked object? Perhaps an asset, or a Patent
> Title? Or is this meant as some sort of hypothetical condition that
> rules can look at (in which case there's no obvious reason to link
> "gain" to "award"?).
>
> It also seems possible that there's been a Rulekeepor error related to
> the rule in question, and the online FLR doesn't match the actual
> ruleset; I haven't looked into this.
> }}}
>
> --
> ais523
>
> Glitter is sui generis - neither a patent title nor an asset or something
that's tracked. Just a proxy for coins. The ordinary meanings are what
matters here. Ordinary meaning of being 'awarded' something is to get that
thing, or 'gain' it. So someone who is awarded glitter gains it. The only
rules-defined consequence of gaining a ribbon is that the Tailor gives you
coins. Your speculation about ribbons being a tracked object isn't correct
- the only objects that are tracked are objects that say they are tracked
in the rules.

Also there is no rulekeepor error, the erroneous quote mark was in the
proposal.

-- 
--
R. Lee

Re: DIS: Draft to make the stone proposal clearer (happy G?)

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

I've innovatively (or not?) put comments in line, sorry for kinda snapping
btw.

On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 2:59 AM Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:

>
> On 8/30/2021 8:58 PM, Sarah S. via agora-discussion wrote:
> > - Hot Potato Stone (Weekly, 100%): This stone obeys special rules that
> > override other applicable rules to the extent they conflict. When this
> > stone is wielded, the wielder gains 8 boatloads of coins if the wielder,
> in
> > the same message as the wielding, transfers this stone to a player who
> has
> > not owned this stone since Agora last owned it. This stone is never
> > collected if 3 or more players have wielded it in the most recent Agoran
> > month.
>
> Some thoughts, hopefully constructive:
>
> * I think you can use immunity to avoid any conflicts, so the first
> sentence isn't needed?  (in the below, I don't think "granting immunity"
> continuously breaks things, but maybe it does):
>
>  - Hot Potato Stone (Weekly, 100%):  When this stone is wielded, the
>wielder gains 8 boatloads of coins if the wielder, in the same message
>as the wielding, transfers this stone to a player who has not owned
>this stone since Agora last owned it. This stone is granted immunity
>whenever 3 or more players have wielded it in the most recent Agoran
>month.
>
> * If you keep the initial overriding, I wouldn't say "obeys special rules"
> because "rules" means a specific thing which I don't think you mean here?
>
>
True, I didn't realize immunity existed because I'm bad at reading

> * As it's written, saying "I wield the Hot Potato Stone" without
> transferring it, or while transferring it to a nonqualified person, would
> get you no coins, but would count towards the "3 or more players wielding
> it" and the number of escape chances.  Is that intended?
>
True, that's probably bad, but you shouldn't be able to transfer at all to
a not allowed person imo, maybe I can put a sentence in that says the stone
cant be transferred except as provided in the wielding section. I dont have
any problem with wielding and not transferring though because you could
just not wield. Number of escape chances literally doesnt matter because
its 100%, it escapes always unless its immune.

>
> * If you transfer it as part of wielding but the wielding otherwise fails
> (say it's the second use in a week) should the transfer go through?
>
Probably not, see above

>
> * I don't know what you mean by [most recent Agoran month] is that most
> recently completed [previous month] or the current month?  If you sync it
> to collection notices instead of months it might become easier to write
> (since collection notices reset immunity).
>
> Yes, it should say "since the last collection notice" I guess

-- 
--
R. Lee

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Assessor] Resolution of Proposals 8596-8601

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

On Tue, Aug 31, 2021 at 5:03 PM D. Wet via agora-discussion <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:

>
> 31 aug. 2021 01:29:32 Falsifian via agora-discussion
> :
>
> >> //
> >> ID: 8598
> >> Title:
> >> Adoption index: 1.0
> >> Author: G.
> >> Co-authors:
> >>
> >>
> >> I create a proposal with this sentence as its text, and make it
> >> pending.
> >
> > I feel sympathy for our brave Promotor.
> >
> It seems like my newbie action has inspired a new direction to explore?
> Or is this unrelated?
>
> That action itself was inspired by trying to play a reverse Gödel's
> statement 'This statement is unproveable in this system of axioms'.
> Probably aided by the fact that my English is not proficient enough (yet)
> to play a language-game.
>
> Unfortunately it does not qualify as PARADOXICAL ... only as ambiguous.
>
> I like the reflection of Aspen on the matter.
>
> Should and could I do something to make progress on the CFJ besides my
> vote?
> --
> D. Wet
> www.nomica.nl
>
I think the CFJ called on your proposal is the longest and most
controversial CFJ I at least have ever seen. Sorry for all the bother about
that.

-- 
--
R. Lee

DIS: Draft to make the stone proposal clearer (happy G?)

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

Title: Paschal English sucked (literally?)
AI: 2
Coauthor: G
Amend rule 2642, 'Distributing Stones' by replacing its second paragraph
with 'The Stonemason SHALL if possible initiate such an auction monthly and
only once a month, in a timely fashion after a collection notice has been
issued. The Stonemason SHALL auction exactly 2 stones in a month if
possible'

Retitle rule 2644 'The Gauntlet' to 'Zen Gardening' [cosmetic change to
remove the annoying movie reference that I discussed once on discord]

Amend rule 2644 by replacing any instances of the word 'Gauntlet' with
'Rock Garden' [sorry for the bad way of putting this, but this rule might
get amended soon so I have to do it for safety]

Amend rule 2644 by replacing '5 or more' with '8 or more'

Amend rule 2645 'The Stones' by adding the following text on the end.
"-  Recursion Stone (Monthly, 80%): The recursion stone can be wielded once
per
month as if it had the power of any other stone of your choice.

- Hot Potato Stone (Weekly, 100%): This stone obeys special rules that
override other applicable rules to the extent they conflict. When this
stone is wielded, the wielder gains 8 boatloads of coins if the wielder, in
the same message as the wielding, transfers this stone to a player who has
not owned this stone since Agora last owned it. This stone is never
collected if 3 or more players have wielded it in the most recent Agoran
month.

Blank Stone (Monthly, 5%): This stone has no effect.

Alchemy Stone (weekly, 70%): Destroy four cards you own. If four cards were
destroyed this way, gain 7 products of your choice"

-- 
--
R. Lee

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: @Promotor [proposal] Getting Stoned

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

On Tue, Aug 24, 2021 at 11:32 PM Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:

>
> On 8/24/2021 1:52 AM, Sarah S. via agora-business wrote:
> > - Hot Potato Stone (Weekly, 100%): You must transfer this stone to a
> player
> > of your choice
> > who has never owned this stone since the last time agora has owned it.
> Then
> > the original wielder gains 8 boatloads of coins.
> > SPECIAL RULE: Other rules notwithstanding, this stone never escapes as
> long
> > as at least three players have owned it in the last Agoran month
>
> The link between wielding and "must transfer" is really unclear.  It's not
> clear that the transfer is "wielding" or that there ever is an "original
> wielder".  This could be the first person who ever wields it?
>
> There's also no time limit on the must, and there's nothing stopping you
> from transferring it to someone who doesn't meet the criterion.
>
> -G.
>

The must transfer seems to be clearly on wielding, as all of the stones are
formatted that  way, with the wielding effect directly after the colon.

True enough on the part about must transfer, but the stone clearly says
that the original wielder only gets the coins "then", aka after the stone
is transferred. So there's no benefit in wielding and not transferring it -
you can keep the stone for the whole month but obviously it will be
collected.

Overall I think these objections are meritless, although it could have been
clearer. Proposal can be passed as is imo.
--
R. Lee

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 8596-8601

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 1:34 PM Aspen via agora-discussion <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 7:09 PM Sarah S. via agora-business <
> agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:
>
> > I vote as follows
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 8:54 AM Aspen via agora-official <
> > agora-offic...@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > ID  Author(s)   AITitle
> > >
> >
> ---
> > > 8596&   R. Lee  1.0   decimation times 9
> > >
> > AGAINST (also I'm quite sure I retracted this, but maybe you can't do it
> > after pending or maybe i didnt, idk)
>
>
> You did. My apologies. I missed it because it was in a Re: DIS: thread and
> I didn't check adequately. I'll CoE and submit a revision in a bit.
>
> -Aspen
>

no worries, mb for not flagging
--
R. Lee

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [proposal] Paradox Patch

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

On Mon, Aug 16, 2021 at 11:03 AM Jason Cobb via agora-discussion <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> On 8/15/21 9:00 PM, Sarah S. via agora-discussion wrote:
> > why not just spend a pendant
> >
> > --
> > R. Lee
>
>
> This is a bugfix. I don't mind forgoing the rewards.
>
> --
> Jason Cobb
>
> Assessor, Rulekeepor, Stonemason
>
>
Very charitable. But I think it's better that we use the correct gameplay
resource for immediately pending proposals, especially given that (as this
situation proves), using a pendant is much easier to get a bugfix pended
quickly.

-- 
--
R. Lee

DIS: Re: BUS: [proposal] Paradox Patch

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

On Mon, Aug 16, 2021 at 10:58 AM Jason Cobb via agora-business <
agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> On 8/15/21 6:03 PM, Aspen via agora-business wrote:
> > On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 at 2:07 PM Jason Cobb via agora-business
> >  wrote:
> >> On 8/5/21 4:27 PM, Jason Cobb via agora-business wrote:
> >>> Title: Paradox Patch
> >>>
> >>> Adoption index: 1.0
> >>>
> >>> Author: Jason
> >>>
> >>> Coauthors:
> >>>
> >>> {
> >>>
> >>> Amend Rule 2553 "Win by Paradox" to read, in whole:
> >>>
> >>> {
> >>>
> >>> If a CFJ about the effectiveness, possibility, or legality of a change
> >>> in the gamestate has been assigned a judgment of PARADOXICAL
> >>> continuously for at least 7 days, then that case's initiator, CAN, by
> >>> announcement, Transcend Logic, provided that e has not already
> >>> Transcended Logic or won the game with respect to that CFJ. When a
> >>> person transcends logic, e wins the game.
> >>>
> >>> A player who wins in this fashion SHOULD submit a proposal to prevent
> >>> the paradox from arising again.
> >>>
> >>> }
> >>>
> >>> }
> >>
> >> *sigh*
> >>
> >> I withdraw the above proposal
> >>
> >> I submit, and request certification of, the following proposal:
> >>
> >> Title: Paradox Patch
> >>
> >> Adoption index: 1.0
> >>
> >> Author: Jason
> >>
> >> Coauthors: G.
> > For N from 2 through 5, I intend to certify this proposal with N support.
>
>
> I support.
>
> --
> Jason Cobb
>
> Assessor, Rulekeepor, Stonemason
>
>
why not just spend a pendant

--
R. Lee

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Deputy Registrar] Weekly Report

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

On Mon, Aug 16, 2021 at 8:41 AM Edward Murphy via agora-discussion <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> R. Lee wrote:
>
> > I deputise for Registrar (office is vacant) & publish the below weekly
> > report
>
> How is it vacant? I'm holding off on adding this to ADoP records, but
> will hang on to relevant messages in case I overlooked something.
>

It wasn't vacant. I deputised based on inactivity (3 weeks were missed),
but accidentally said the wrong thing. The action still worked though.
--
R. Lee

DIS: Re: BUS: Stone Ideas (proto-ish)

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

On Fri, Aug 13, 2021 at 2:15 PM Sarah S. via agora-business <
agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> We had a discussion in discord where those who discussed it agreed on the
> folllowing
> - Stone wins are super easy right now
> - We should have more stones in principle
> - Stones shouldn't be able to steal things from other people or somehow
> prevent them from enjoying game mechanics.
> - Stones shouldn't be too complex to track (anymore so than what we already
> have).
>
> I therefore offer the following ideas for discussion.
>
> Recursion Stone (Monthly, 80%): The recursion stone can be wielded once per
> month as if it had the power of any other stone of your choice.
> Blank Stone (monthly, 5%): This stone has no effect when wielded.
> Robin Hood Stone (weekly, 100%): Transfer this stone to a player with less
> coins than you, then the original wielder gains 8 boatloads of coins.
> SPECIAL RULE: This stone never escapes as long as at least three players
> have owned it in the last Agoran month.
> Alchemy Stone (weekly: 70%): Destroy four cards of any type you own
> (including different types). If four cards were destroyed this way, gain 7
> products of any type (including different types)
> --
> R. Lee
>
Revision to Robin Hood Stone based on comments on discord (it could easily
be used between any group of 3 until the end of time if they just passed
coins around)

Hot Potato Stone: You must transfer this stone to a player of your choice
who has never owned this stone since the last time agora has owned it. Then
the original wielder gains 8 boatloads of coins.
SPECIAL RULE: This stone never escapes as long as at least three players
have owned it in the last Agoran month

This was trigon's idea, I believe, thanks to em.

--
R. Lee

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Treasuror] [Victory Auction] First Victory Auction of August 2021

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 6:28 PM D. Wet via agora-discussion <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> Ah...
>
> So I have to pay more attention to the list I am sending. Obviously, just
> clicking reply does not give the expected result. I will need to check
> what the To-field really contains, not only the name, but also the
> associated email address.
>
> About my bidding: Isn't it that
> 1) if I win the auction and
> 2) I do not have enough coins immediately, then
> 3) I have 3 days to get the funding?
>
> For now, I will not send this bid to the public forum.
>
> (Public-private reflection: For some reason this group straying me away
> from my learning strategy ...)
> --
> D. Wet
> www.nomica.nl
>
That's true about the auctions, you can bid as much as you think you can
acquire by the end of that period. You have it right.

With regards to forums, all emails automatically reply to agora-discussion,
which means you have to send everything intentionally to agora-business.
I'm not sure why this is, but I think it's to avoid people accidentally
sending public messages and taking game actions

--
R. Lee

DIS: Re: OFF: asdfghjjl

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 10:41 PM Collin Tir via agora-official <
agora-offic...@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> I flip the activity switch
>


I'm going to count this as having its intended purpose, I think.
--
R. Lee

DIS: testing

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

"hahaha yes" - sickos