Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Secretary] Weekly Report (revision 2)

[Owen Jacobson]

> On Oct 11, 2017, at 11:19 PM, Ørjan Johansen  wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 11 Oct 2017, Owen Jacobson wrote:
> 
>> On Oct 11, 2017, at 12:17 AM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:
>> 
>>> As Secretary, I flip the Floating Value to 20.
>> 
>> On Oct 11, 2017, at 12:29 AM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:
>> 
>>> As Secretary, I flip the Floating Value to 22.
>> 
>> On Oct 11, 2017, at 12:54 AM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:
>> 
>>> As Secretary, I flip the Floating Value to 9.
>> 
>> Something snagged my memory, so I went back and looked at the rules. We did, 
>> in fact, make this mechanism less brittle. From rule 2456 (“The Secretary”):
>> 
>>> The Secretary CAN flip the floating value once a week by announcement. As 
>>> part of eir weekly duties, e SHALL flip the Floating Value to the number of 
>>> Shinies owned by Agora; e SHALL NOT ever set it to a different value. E 
>>> SHOULD do this while publishing eir weekly report. If the Secretary 
>>> discovers that e last flipped the floating value to an incorrect value and 
>>> e would not otherwise be able to set it again yet, e CAN and SHALL set the 
>>> value to what it should have been set to in the first place by announcement.
> 
> I note that this is still brittle - the _initial_ flip works, but when using 
> the correction option, the CAN only applies when setting the value to what it 
> _should_ have been in the initial flip.  And it cannot consider intermediate 
> events.  I am not sure which of the three values above is currently the 
> actual one.

There’s an error in the Secretary’s report - I noticed the same problem this 
morning. When I flipped it to 20, it was incorrect but platonically possible 
the way I did it, so it succeeded. The 22 was never correct, and it was no 
longer possible for me to flip it to an incorrect value. As a result, the 
amount I tracked for V.J Rada’s stamp purchase was incorrect, so 9 was also 
never correct, and did not happen.

I’ll go through and un-pick buggy transactions. I don’t think the damage is too 
bad. Everyone gets the appropriate stamps; if anyone spent more than they meant 
to, I’ll figure something out.

-o



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DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Secretary] Weekly Report (revision 2)

[Ørjan Johansen]

On Wed, 11 Oct 2017, Owen Jacobson wrote:


On Oct 11, 2017, at 12:17 AM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:


As Secretary, I flip the Floating Value to 20.


On Oct 11, 2017, at 12:29 AM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:


As Secretary, I flip the Floating Value to 22.


On Oct 11, 2017, at 12:54 AM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:


As Secretary, I flip the Floating Value to 9.


Something snagged my memory, so I went back and looked at the rules. We 
did, in fact, make this mechanism less brittle. From rule 2456 (“The 
Secretary”):


The Secretary CAN flip the floating value once a week by announcement. 
As part of eir weekly duties, e SHALL flip the Floating Value to the 
number of Shinies owned by Agora; e SHALL NOT ever set it to a 
different value. E SHOULD do this while publishing eir weekly report. 
If the Secretary discovers that e last flipped the floating value to an 
incorrect value and e would not otherwise be able to set it again yet, 
e CAN and SHALL set the value to what it should have been set to in the 
first place by announcement.


I note that this is still brittle - the _initial_ flip works, but when 
using the correction option, the CAN only applies when setting the value 
to what it _should_ have been in the initial flip.  And it cannot consider 
intermediate events.  I am not sure which of the three values above is 
currently the actual one.


Greetings,
Ørjan.

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Secretary] Weekly Report (revision 2)

[VJ Rada]

No it wasn't: you might have missed the secretary's revision last
week, which came a couple of days after eir first report.

On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 9:18 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
 wrote:
> CoE: The previous floating value was 132 and V.J. Rada paid 26 shinies for
> eir stamp.
>
>
> On 10/11/2017 12:54 AM, Owen Jacobson wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 3:46 PM, VJ Rada  wrote:
>>>
>>> CoE: Between your last report and this one, I bought a stamp from
>>> Agora. I'm COEing bc obviously that would change the values again.
>>
>> I publish the following revision, and claim a reward of 5 shinies for it
>> if and only if I have not received a reward for the Secretary’s weekly
>> report this week.
>>
>> As Secretary, I flip the Floating Value to 9.
>>
>> Secretary's Weekly Report
>>
>> Date of this report: Wed, 11 Oct 2017
>> Date of last report: Thu,  4 Oct 2017
>>
>> Recent events (all times UTC):
>>
>> Tue, 26 Sep 2017 03:49:30  V.J Rada paid Agora 1 sh.
>> Tue, 26 Sep 2017 03:59:47  o destroyed Agoran Betting Market
>> Tue, 26 Sep 2017 04:41:59  Aris paid Agora 16 sh.
>> Tue, 26 Sep 2017 04:53:22  V.J Rada paid Agora 20 sh.
>> Tue, 26 Sep 2017 05:01:59  o paid Agora 44 sh.
>> Tue, 26 Sep 2017 06:26:11  Gaelan paid Agora 23 sh.
>> Tue, 26 Sep 2017 10:54:41  P.S.S.[1] paid Agora 13 sh.
>> Tue, 26 Sep 2017 11:15:12  V.J Rada created a stamp for 1 sh.
>> Tue, 26 Sep 2017 14:27:23  grok created a stamp for 1 sh.
>> Tue, 26 Sep 2017 22:18:15  G. paid Agora 14 sh.
>> Wed, 27 Sep 2017 10:13:46  Gaelan paid Trigon 20 sh.
>> Wed, 27 Sep 2017 10:13:46  Gaelan paid Alexis 20 sh.
>> Wed, 27 Sep 2017 16:05:28  Agora paid Alexis 50 sh.
>> Wed, 27 Sep 2017 16:35:50  grok transferred a stamp (grok) to Agora
>> Wed, 27 Sep 2017 15:38:43  grok deregistered
>> Thu, 28 Sep 2017 01:41:09  o paid Agora 1 sh.
>> Fri, 29 Sep 2017 00:45:06  V.J Rada paid Agora 1 sh.
>> Fri, 29 Sep 2017 00:45:06  Agora paid the Community Chest 1 sh.
>> Fri, 29 Sep 2017 00:54:47  G. paid Gaelan 4 sh.
>> Sat, 30 Sep 2017 12:39:18  Agora paid V.J Rada 5 sh.
>> Sat, 30 Sep 2017 12:39:18  V.J Rada paid Agora 2 sh.
>> Sat, 30 Sep 2017 12:39:18  V.J Rada paid the Community Chest 2 sh.
>> Sun,  1 Oct 2017 14:57:04  P.S.S.[1] paid Agora 1 sh.
>> Mon,  2 Oct 2017 00:08:16  Gaelan paid Agora 1 sh.
>> Mon,  2 Oct 2017 01:19:38  Gaelan paid Agora 1 sh.
>> Tue,  3 Oct 2017 21:29:09  Agora paid G. 5 sh.
>> Tue,  3 Oct 2017 21:29:09  G. paid nichdel 5 sh.
>> - previous report -
>> Wed,  4 Oct 2017 01:37:30  Agora paid o 15 sh.
>> Wed,  4 Oct 2017 01:43:46  Agora paid G. 5 sh.
>> Wed,  4 Oct 2017 01:49:02  Agora paid o 5 sh.
>> Wed,  4 Oct 2017 04:27:27  V.J Rada destroyed a stamp (V.J Rada) for 27
>> sh.
>> Wed,  4 Oct 2017 04:27:27  V.J Rada paid the Community Chest 13 sh.
>> Wed,  4 Oct 2017 04:50:06  G. destroyed a stamp for 27 sh.
>> Wed,  4 Oct 2017 19:18:13  Agora paid G. 5 sh.
>> Wed,  4 Oct 2017 19:44:15  Agora paid Alexis 7 sh.
>> Thu,  5 Oct 2017 01:07:32  P.S.S.[1] destroyed a stamp for 27 sh.
>> Thu,  5 Oct 2017 01:47:41  o paid 天火狐 2 sh.
>> Thu,  5 Oct 2017 01:47:41  o paid G. 2 sh.
>> Thu,  5 Oct 2017 05:11:29  Agora paid o 5 sh.
>> - time of last report -
>> Mon,  9 Oct 2017 02:12:32  V.J Rada paid Agora 2 sh.
>> Mon,  9 Oct 2017 02:34:35  Agora paid V.J Rada 5 sh.
>> Mon,  9 Oct 2017 02:34:35  V.J Rada paid the Community Chest 2 sh.
>> Mon,  9 Oct 2017 02:36:25  V.J Rada paid the Community Chest 2 sh.
>> Mon,  9 Oct 2017 04:03:00  Aris paid the Community Chest 2 sh.
>> Mon,  9 Oct 2017 04:03:00  Aris paid Agora 2 sh.
>> Tue, 10 Oct 2017 15:03:10  Agora paid 天火狐 5 sh.
>> Wed, 11 Oct 2017 02:18:55  o paid 天火狐 2 sh.
>> Wed, 11 Oct 2017 03:50:12  Agora paid V.J Rada 5 sh.
>> Wed, 11 Oct 2017 04:21:36  V.J Rada created a stamp for 7 sh.
>> Wed, 11 Oct 2017 04:22:26  Agora paid o 20 sh.
>>
>> [1] In full, "Publius Scribonius Scholasticus"
>>
>>
>> Personal Lockouts: None
>>
>> Global Lockout: No
>>
>>
>> Floating Value: 9
>>
>> Floating Derived Values:
>>
>> NameFormula Value
>> -
>> Pend Cost   1/20 * FV   1
>> CFJ Cost1/20 * FV   1
>> Authorship Reward   1/40 * FV   1
>> Pend Reward 1/40 * FV   1
>> CFJ Reward  1/20 * FV   1
>> Stamp Value 1/5 * FV2
>>
>>
>> Balances:
>>
>> 9 Shinies  Agora
>>22 Shinies  Community Chest
>> 1 Shinies  Organization
>> 1 ShiniesASaAA
>>   968 Shinies  Player
>>51 ShiniesATMunn
>>57 ShiniesAlexis
>>28 ShiniesAris
>>65 ShiniesCuddleBeam
>>65 ShiniesG.
>> 4 ShiniesGaelan
>>50 ShiniesIenpw III
>>50 ShiniesK
>>50 ShiniesMurphy
>>   120 ShiniesPublius Scribonius Scholasticus
>>50 ShiniesQuazie

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Secretary] Weekly Report

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus]

When you purchased this, the floating value was still 132.


On 10/11/2017 12:21 AM, VJ Rada wrote:

I buy a stamp.

On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 3:17 PM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:

As Secretary, I flip the Floating Value to 20.

Secretary's Weekly Report

Date of this report: Wed, 11 Oct 2017
Date of last report: Thu,  4 Oct 2017

Recent events (all times UTC):

Tue, 26 Sep 2017 03:49:30  V.J Rada paid Agora 1 sh.
Tue, 26 Sep 2017 03:59:47  o destroyed Agoran Betting Market
Tue, 26 Sep 2017 04:41:59  Aris paid Agora 16 sh.
Tue, 26 Sep 2017 04:53:22  V.J Rada paid Agora 20 sh.
Tue, 26 Sep 2017 05:01:59  o paid Agora 44 sh.
Tue, 26 Sep 2017 06:26:11  Gaelan paid Agora 23 sh.
Tue, 26 Sep 2017 10:54:41  P.S.S.[1] paid Agora 13 sh.
Tue, 26 Sep 2017 11:15:12  V.J Rada created a stamp for 1 sh.
Tue, 26 Sep 2017 14:27:23  grok created a stamp for 1 sh.
Tue, 26 Sep 2017 22:18:15  G. paid Agora 14 sh.
Wed, 27 Sep 2017 10:13:46  Gaelan paid Trigon 20 sh.
Wed, 27 Sep 2017 10:13:46  Gaelan paid Alexis 20 sh.
Wed, 27 Sep 2017 16:05:28  Agora paid Alexis 50 sh.
Wed, 27 Sep 2017 16:35:50  grok transferred a stamp (grok) to Agora
Wed, 27 Sep 2017 15:38:43  grok deregistered
Thu, 28 Sep 2017 01:41:09  o paid Agora 1 sh.
Fri, 29 Sep 2017 00:45:06  V.J Rada paid Agora 1 sh.
Fri, 29 Sep 2017 00:45:06  Agora paid the Community Chest 1 sh.
Fri, 29 Sep 2017 00:54:47  G. paid Gaelan 4 sh.
Sat, 30 Sep 2017 12:39:18  Agora paid V.J Rada 5 sh.
Sat, 30 Sep 2017 12:39:18  V.J Rada paid Agora 2 sh.
Sat, 30 Sep 2017 12:39:18  V.J Rada paid the Community Chest 2 sh.
Sun,  1 Oct 2017 14:57:04  P.S.S.[1] paid Agora 1 sh.
Mon,  2 Oct 2017 00:08:16  Gaelan paid Agora 1 sh.
Mon,  2 Oct 2017 01:19:38  Gaelan paid Agora 1 sh.
Tue,  3 Oct 2017 21:29:09  Agora paid G. 5 sh.
Tue,  3 Oct 2017 21:29:09  G. paid nichdel 5 sh.
- previous report -
Wed,  4 Oct 2017 01:37:30  Agora paid o 15 sh.
Wed,  4 Oct 2017 01:43:46  Agora paid G. 5 sh.
Wed,  4 Oct 2017 01:49:02  Agora paid o 5 sh.
Wed,  4 Oct 2017 04:27:27  V.J Rada destroyed a stamp (V.J Rada) for 27 sh.
Wed,  4 Oct 2017 04:27:27  V.J Rada paid the Community Chest 13 sh.
Wed,  4 Oct 2017 04:50:06  G. destroyed a stamp for 27 sh.
Wed,  4 Oct 2017 19:18:13  Agora paid G. 5 sh.
Wed,  4 Oct 2017 19:44:15  Agora paid Alexis 7 sh.
Thu,  5 Oct 2017 01:07:32  P.S.S.[1] destroyed a stamp for 27 sh.
Thu,  5 Oct 2017 01:47:41  o paid 天火狐 2 sh.
Thu,  5 Oct 2017 01:47:41  o paid G. 2 sh.
Thu,  5 Oct 2017 05:11:29  Agora paid o 5 sh.
- time of last report -
Mon,  9 Oct 2017 02:12:32  V.J Rada paid Agora 2 sh.
Mon,  9 Oct 2017 02:34:35  Agora paid V.J Rada 5 sh.
Mon,  9 Oct 2017 02:34:35  V.J Rada paid the Community Chest 2 sh.
Mon,  9 Oct 2017 02:36:25  V.J Rada paid the Community Chest 2 sh.
Tue, 10 Oct 2017 15:03:10  Agora paid 天火狐 5 sh.
Wed, 11 Oct 2017 02:18:55  o paid 天火狐 2 sh.
Wed, 11 Oct 2017 03:50:12  Agora paid V.J Rada 5 sh.

[1] In full, "Publius Scribonius Scholasticus"


Personal Lockouts: None

Global Lockout: No


Floating Value: 20

Floating Derived Values:

NameFormula Value
-
Pend Cost   1/20 * FV   1
CFJ Cost1/20 * FV   1
Authorship Reward   1/40 * FV   1
Pend Reward 1/40 * FV   1
CFJ Reward  1/20 * FV   1
Stamp Value 1/5 * FV4


Balances:

   20 Shinies  Agora
   20 Shinies  Community Chest
1 Shinies  Organization
1 ShiniesASaAA
  959 Shinies  Player
   51 ShiniesATMunn
   57 ShiniesAlexis
   32 ShiniesAris
   65 ShiniesCuddleBeam
   65 ShiniesG.
4 ShiniesGaelan
   50 ShiniesIenpw III
   50 ShiniesK
   50 ShiniesMurphy
  120 ShiniesPublius Scribonius Scholasticus
   50 ShiniesQuazie
   20 ShiniesTrigon
   59 ShiniesV.J Rada
   50 Shiniesbayushi
   17 Shiniesnichdel
  105 Shinieso
   50 Shiniesomd
   64 Shinies天火狐

Stamps:

Made By  Owned By Qty
-
ais523   Agora  2
grok Agora  1
oAgora  1
Aris Aris   1
Gaelan   Gaelan 1
Quazie   Quazie 1
nichdel  nichdel2
oo  1
天火狐天火狐  2


Budgets:

Player ACU  ASaAA  蘭亭社 Expenditure

nichdel50  50
Murphy  50 50
omd 20 20
天火狐 50   50

Income  70 50 50  170

ABM = The Agoran Betting Market
ACU = The Agoran Credit Union
ASaAA = Agoran Stamps and Awards Association

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Secretary] Weekly Report (revision 1)

[Owen Jacobson]

> On Oct 11, 2017, at 12:47 AM, VJ Rada  wrote:
> 
> PF
> 
> On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 3:46 PM, VJ Rada  wrote:
>> CoE: Between your last report and this one, I bought a stamp from
>> Agora. I'm COEing bc obviously that would change the values again.

This mechanism is _shockingly_ brittle. Let’s never make a rule-defined state 
transition that can only be done to the exact right value again.

-o



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DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Secretary] Weekly Report

[Owen Jacobson]

> On Oct 4, 2017, at 9:07 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus 
>  wrote:
> 
> If I have a stamp, depending on the gamestate, I destroy a stamp, gaining 27 
> shinies.

According to my records, after the resolution of CFJ 3561, you did have a stamp.

-o




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DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Secretary] Weekly Report

[Owen Jacobson]

> On Oct 4, 2017, at 12:27 AM, VJ Rada  wrote:
> 
> how do i have so many? I had 63 last week, spent a lot, and don't
> remember a big payday.


It appears that I accidentally counted this transaction

On Sep 26, 2017, at 12:53 AM, VJ Rada  wrote:

> I have like 62 I think? I give Agora 20 shinies.

against Aris’ balance, not yours. Good catch.

-o



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Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Secretary] Weekly Report

[Alexis Hunt]

On Wed, 4 Oct 2017 at 21:52 Owen Jacobson  wrote:

>
> > On Oct 4, 2017, at 9:35 AM, ATMunn .  wrote:
> >
> > Nevermind, I think I had sent that when I didn't understand pf and
> such. Your report is just fine. I retract my CoE (if that's possible, idk
> if it is)
>
> It’s not. However, I could deny this CoE, though, and common convention is
> to deny a CoE if the claimant wants to withdraw it or no longer believes
> the error is present. Given the other two CoEs raised about the report, I’m
> going to publish a revision anyways, so it’s a moot point.
>
> It might be worth an experimental proposal to add withdrawal of CoEs, if
> you want. It’s a surprisingly interesting problem: a CoE stops a report
> from self-ratifying, but does withdrawing a CoE cause it to self-ratify on
> the original schedule? A new schedule? Never?
>
> -o
>

I believe that rule 2201 both makes clear you must explicitly deny the
claims, and explains what happens vis-a-vis self-ratification.

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Secretary] Weekly Report

[Owen Jacobson]

> On Oct 4, 2017, at 9:35 AM, ATMunn .  wrote:
> 
> Nevermind, I think I had sent that when I didn't understand pf and such. 
> Your report is just fine. I retract my CoE (if that's possible, idk if it is)

It’s not. However, I could deny this CoE, though, and common convention is to 
deny a CoE if the claimant wants to withdraw it or no longer believes the error 
is present. Given the other two CoEs raised about the report, I’m going to 
publish a revision anyways, so it’s a moot point.

It might be worth an experimental proposal to add withdrawal of CoEs, if you 
want. It’s a surprisingly interesting problem: a CoE stops a report from 
self-ratifying, but does withdrawing a CoE cause it to self-ratify on the 
original schedule? A new schedule? Never?

-o



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DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Secretary] Weekly Report

[ATMunn .]

CoE: A while back I paid Agora 17 shinies, in response to a request someone
made for everyone to give 1/3 of their shinies to Agora. I don't see this
in the report.
(Or, did I send that to the wrong forum?)

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 12:50 AM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
>
> On Wed, 4 Oct 2017, VJ Rada wrote:
> > I destroy my stamp, getting 27 shinies. I transfer 13 shinies to the
> > Community Chest.
>
> Ooh, thanks for the reminder.  I destroy my stamp, getting 27 shinies.
> -G.
>
>
>
>

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Secretary] Weekly Report

[VJ Rada]

Also don't forget your empty agronomist report this week!

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 2:27 PM, VJ Rada  wrote:
> how do i have so many? I had 63 last week, spent a lot, and don't
> remember a big payday.
>
> I destroy my stamp, getting 27 shinies. I transfer 13 shinies to the
> Community Chest.
>
> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 11:35 AM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:
>> As Secretary, I flip the Floating Value to 132.
>>
>> Secretary's Weekly Report
>>
>> Date of this report: Wed,  3 Oct 2017
>> Date of last report: Tue, 26 Sep 2017
>>
>> Recent events (all times UTC):
>>
>> Tue, 12 Sep 2017 05:22:23  Agora paid o 15 sh.
>> Tue, 12 Sep 2017 05:22:23  Agora paid K 50 sh.
>> Tue, 12 Sep 2017 05:27:39  CuddleBeam destroyed a CuddleBeam stamp
>> Tue, 12 Sep 2017 05:27:39  Agora paid CuddleBeam 23 sh.
>> Tue, 12 Sep 2017 05:27:39  CuddleBeam paid Agora 68 sh.
>> Tue, 12 Sep 2017 05:31:02  CuddleBeam paid Agora 1 sh.
>> Tue, 12 Sep 2017 05:31:02  Agora paid CuddleBeam 50 sh.
>> Tue, 12 Sep 2017 17:30:50  Agora paid nichdel 5 sh.
>> Wed, 13 Sep 2017 00:56:58  Agora paid o 6 sh.
>> Wed, 13 Sep 2017 04:08:34  CuddleBeam paid o 2 sh.
>> Wed, 13 Sep 2017 18:59:18  Agora paid 天火狐 5 sh.
>> Wed, 13 Sep 2017 19:03:40  Aris paid 天火狐 5 sh.
>> Thu, 14 Sep 2017 22:14:17  o paid 天火狐 2 sh.
>> Fri, 15 Sep 2017 21:52:11  Veggiekeks and babelien deregistered
>> - previous report -
>> Wed, 20 Sep 2017 06:11:50  Agora paid o 15 sh.
>> Wed, 20 Sep 2017 06:16:18  Agora paid V.J Rada 50 sh.
>> Wed, 20 Sep 2017 22:02:57  Agora paid 天火狐 5 sh.
>> Thu, 21 Sep 2017 19:32:10  Quazie paid ATMunn 1 sh.
>> Fri, 22 Sep 2017 13:36:08  o paid 天火狐 2 sh.
>> Fri, 22 Sep 2017 14:01:12  Agora paid ATMunn 50 sh.
>> Sun, 24 Sep 2017 02:23:32  Agora paid V.J Rada 5 sh.
>> Sun, 24 Sep 2017 21:02:28  Agora paid P.S.S.[1] 5 sh.
>> - time of last report -
>> Tue, 26 Sep 2017 03:49:30  V.J Rada paid Agora 1 sh.
>> Tue, 26 Sep 2017 03:59:47  o destroyed Agoran Betting Market
>> Tue, 26 Sep 2017 04:41:59  Aris paid Agora 16 sh.
>> Tue, 26 Sep 2017 04:53:22  V.J Rada paid Agora 20 sh.
>> Tue, 26 Sep 2017 05:01:59  o paid Agora 44 sh.
>> Tue, 26 Sep 2017 06:26:11  Gaelan paid Agora 23 sh.
>> Tue, 26 Sep 2017 10:54:41  P.S.S.[1] paid Agora 13 sh.
>> Tue, 26 Sep 2017 11:15:12  V.J Rada created a stamp for 1 sh.
>> Tue, 26 Sep 2017 14:27:23  grok created a stamp for 1 sh.
>> Tue, 26 Sep 2017 22:18:15  G. paid Agora 14 sh.
>> Wed, 27 Sep 2017 10:13:46  Gaelan paid Trigon 20 sh.
>> Wed, 27 Sep 2017 10:13:46  Gaelan paid Alexis 20 sh.
>> Wed, 27 Sep 2017 16:05:28  Agora paid Alexis 50 sh.
>> Wed, 27 Sep 2017 16:35:50  grok transferred a stamp (grok) to Agora
>> Wed, 27 Sep 2017 15:38:43  grok deregistered
>> Thu, 28 Sep 2017 01:41:09  o paid Agora 1 sh.
>> Fri, 29 Sep 2017 00:45:06  V.J Rada paid Agora 1 sh.
>> Fri, 29 Sep 2017 00:45:06  Agora paid the Community Chest 1 sh.
>> Fri, 29 Sep 2017 00:54:47  G. paid Gaelan 4 sh.
>> Sat, 30 Sep 2017 12:39:18  Agora paid V.J Rada 5 sh.
>> Sat, 30 Sep 2017 12:39:18  V.J Rada paid Agora 2 sh.
>> Sat, 30 Sep 2017 12:39:18  V.J Rada paid the Community Chest 2 sh.
>> Sun,  1 Oct 2017 14:57:04  P.S.S.[1] paid Agora 1 sh.
>> Mon,  2 Oct 2017 00:08:16  Gaelan paid Agora 1 sh.
>> Mon,  2 Oct 2017 01:19:38  Gaelan paid Agora 1 sh.
>> Tue,  3 Oct 2017 21:29:09  Agora paid G. 5 sh.
>> Tue,  3 Oct 2017 21:29:09  G. paid nichdel 5 sh.
>>
>> [1] In full, "Publius Scribonius Scholasticus"
>>
>>
>> Personal Lockouts: None
>>
>> Global Lockout: No
>>
>>
>> Floating Value: 132
>>
>> Floating Derived Values:
>>
>> NameFormula Value
>> -
>> Pend Cost   1/20 * FV   7
>> CFJ Cost1/20 * FV   7
>> Authorship Reward   1/40 * FV   4
>> Pend Reward 1/40 * FV   4
>> CFJ Reward  1/20 * FV   7
>> Stamp Value 1/5 * FV   27
>>
>>
>> Balances:
>>
>>  132 Shinies  Agora
>>3 Shinies  Community Chest
>>1 Shinies  Organization
>>1 ShiniesASaAA
>>  864 Shinies  Player
>>   51 ShiniesATMunn
>>   70 ShiniesAlexis
>>   12 ShiniesAris
>>   65 ShiniesCuddleBeam
>>   26 ShiniesG.
>>8 ShiniesGaelan
>>   50 ShiniesIenpw III
>>   50 ShiniesK
>>   50 ShiniesMurphy
>>   93 ShiniesPublius Scribonius Scholasticus
>>   50 ShiniesQuazie
>>   20 ShiniesTrigon
>>   61 ShiniesV.J Rada
>>   50 Shiniesbayushi
>>   17 Shiniesnichdel
>>   86 Shinieso
>>   50 Shiniesomd
>>   55 Shinies天火狐
>>
>>
>> Stamps:
>>
>> The following table is provisional, and may not reflect a recent CFJ.
>>
>> Made By  Owned By Qty
>> -
>> CuddleBeam   CuddleBeam 1
>> G.   G. 1
>> Gaelan   Gaelan 1
>> grok 

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Secretary] Weekly Report

[Josh T]

I see. I forgot about that actually. Carry on.

天火狐

On Sep 26, 2017 21:15, "Owen Jacobson"  wrote:

>
> > On Sep 26, 2017, at 11:25 AM, Josh T  wrote:
> >
> > I haven't been credited with it, so I assumed it has failed, since my 1
> stamp is from August.
> >
> > 天火狐
>
> I have two records for this:
>
> 2017-08-23 ! 天火狐 created a stamp
> 2017-09-08 ! 天火狐 created a stamp
>
> However, you lost one to Gaelan’s stamp-destruction scam:
>
> 2017-09-07 ! Gaelan destroyed all Stamps
>
> (Note that this is after the first, but before the second).
>
> I can dig up the specific messages to verify this, if you’d like, but
> that’s what I’m basing my assertion on.
>
> -o
>
>

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Secretary] Weekly Report

[Owen Jacobson]

> On Sep 26, 2017, at 11:25 AM, Josh T  wrote:
> 
> I haven't been credited with it, so I assumed it has failed, since my 1 stamp 
> is from August.
> 
> 天火狐

I have two records for this:

2017-08-23 ! 天火狐 created a stamp
2017-09-08 ! 天火狐 created a stamp

However, you lost one to Gaelan’s stamp-destruction scam:

2017-09-07 ! Gaelan destroyed all Stamps

(Note that this is after the first, but before the second).

I can dig up the specific messages to verify this, if you’d like, but that’s 
what I’m basing my assertion on.

-o



signature.asc
Description: Message signed with OpenPGP

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Secretary] Weekly Report

[Josh T]

I haven't been credited with it, so I assumed it has failed, since my 1
stamp is from August.

天火狐

On 26 September 2017 at 10:14, Owen Jacobson  wrote:

>
> > On Sep 26, 2017, at 6:46 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus <
> p.scribonius.scholasti...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I purchase a stamp for 1 shiny.
>
> You last created a Stamp on Sept. 4th, which is within the same Agoran
> Month as this attempt. I _think_ this was ineffective:
>
> > Once per month, a player MAY [sic], by announcement, transfer to Agora
> the Stamp Value, in shinies, to create a Stamp.
>
> -o
>
>

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Secretary] Weekly Report

[Owen Jacobson]

> On Sep 26, 2017, at 6:46 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus 
>  wrote:
> 
> I purchase a stamp for 1 shiny.

You last created a Stamp on Sept. 4th, which is within the same Agoran Month as 
this attempt. I _think_ this was ineffective:

> Once per month, a player MAY [sic], by announcement, transfer to Agora the 
> Stamp Value, in shinies, to create a Stamp.

-o



signature.asc
Description: Message signed with OpenPGP

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Secretary] Weekly Report (revision 2)

[Owen Jacobson]

> On Sep 26, 2017, at 12:10 AM, Alex Smith  wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 2017-09-25 at 23:59 -0400, Owen Jacobson wrote:
>> As Secretary, I destroy the organization “Agoran Betting Market”, as
>> its Income is below the Income Floor of 50.
>> 
>> If anyone feels like reinstating it, its final charter is reproduced
>> below.
> 
> About time too, I guess; its charter was broken, which is one of the
> main reasons it wasn't being used, and it was proving surprisingly
> difficult to fix. (This is a good argument for moving towards
> Contracts, which would make something like that easier to write now
> that we have Shinies as something to bet with.)
> 
> I'm surprised it only fell below floor recently, though. IIRC I was
> contributing less than 50 to it personally, but you have it at 0.

You were, according to my records, contributing 25 to it. However, Sprocklem 
was contributing another 25, getting it to 50 and thus keeping it alive.

Sprocklem’s been deregistered for some time, but - while I correctly noted eir 
deregistration for Shinies, I failed to account for it for Budget. (Same for 
you, actually.) The Organization-related parts of the Secretary’s offical 
duties move so slowly, compared to the Shinies-related parts, that I just plain 
forgot about deregistrations affecting them.

-o



signature.asc
Description: Message signed with OpenPGP

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Secretary] Weekly Report (revision 2)

[Alex Smith]

On Mon, 2017-09-25 at 23:59 -0400, Owen Jacobson wrote:
> As Secretary, I destroy the organization “Agoran Betting Market”, as
> its Income is below the Income Floor of 50.
> 
> If anyone feels like reinstating it, its final charter is reproduced
> below.

About time too, I guess; its charter was broken, which is one of the
main reasons it wasn't being used, and it was proving surprisingly
difficult to fix. (This is a good argument for moving towards
Contracts, which would make something like that easier to write now
that we have Shinies as something to bet with.)

I'm surprised it only fell below floor recently, though. IIRC I was
contributing less than 50 to it personally, but you have it at 0.

-- 
ais523

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Secretary] Weekly Report

[Cuddle Beam]

Oy Owen, that same argument can be given to anyone who has set the Agora
Balance to below 50.

On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 4:47 AM, VJ Rada  wrote:

> Personally I don't care. Cuddlebeam is fine to keep it if e wants.
>
> On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 12:43 PM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:
> >
> >> On Sep 12, 2017, at 2:20 AM, VJ Rada  wrote:
> >>
> >> I cause myself to receive a welcome package
> >
> > For obvious reasons, I believe this actually failed.
> >
> > However, I also believe it nominally failed, even if the rules were as
> they should have been. CuddleBeam’s, ah, creative application of rules 869
> and 2499 would have left Agora with 45 shinies, which isn’t sufficient to
> pay a Welcome Package with.
> >
> > As you have not received one since you last registered while
> deregistered, and CuddleBeam has received one within eir current term as a
> player, I consider this to be grossly unsporting. CB, you might consider
> returning that welcome package, or paying it to V.J Rada. I don’t think
> anyone can formally penalize you over this, but it’d go a long ways towards
> repairing your reputation as a sporting player.
> >
> > -o
> >
>
>
>
> --
> From V.J Rada
>

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Secretary] Weekly Report

[VJ Rada]

Personally I don't care. Cuddlebeam is fine to keep it if e wants.

On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 12:43 PM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:
>
>> On Sep 12, 2017, at 2:20 AM, VJ Rada  wrote:
>>
>> I cause myself to receive a welcome package
>
> For obvious reasons, I believe this actually failed.
>
> However, I also believe it nominally failed, even if the rules were as they 
> should have been. CuddleBeam’s, ah, creative application of rules 869 and 
> 2499 would have left Agora with 45 shinies, which isn’t sufficient to pay a 
> Welcome Package with.
>
> As you have not received one since you last registered while deregistered, 
> and CuddleBeam has received one within eir current term as a player, I 
> consider this to be grossly unsporting. CB, you might consider returning that 
> welcome package, or paying it to V.J Rada. I don’t think anyone can formally 
> penalize you over this, but it’d go a long ways towards repairing your 
> reputation as a sporting player.
>
> -o
>



-- 
>From V.J Rada

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Secretary] Weekly Report

[Owen Jacobson]

> On Sep 12, 2017, at 2:20 AM, VJ Rada  wrote:
> 
> I cause myself to receive a welcome package

For obvious reasons, I believe this actually failed.

However, I also believe it nominally failed, even if the rules were as they 
should have been. CuddleBeam’s, ah, creative application of rules 869 and 2499 
would have left Agora with 45 shinies, which isn’t sufficient to pay a Welcome 
Package with.

As you have not received one since you last registered while deregistered, and 
CuddleBeam has received one within eir current term as a player, I consider 
this to be grossly unsporting. CB, you might consider returning that welcome 
package, or paying it to V.J Rada. I don’t think anyone can formally penalize 
you over this, but it’d go a long ways towards repairing your reputation as a 
sporting player.

-o



signature.asc
Description: Message signed with OpenPGP

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Secretary] Weekly Report

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus]

I’m sorry, why does it sudden;y become a problem, when you aren’t benefitting 
from it.

Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com



> On Sep 12, 2017, at 2:24 AM, VJ Rada  wrote:
> 
> Formal CoE: This report is a tissue of lies.
> 
> If we aren't fixing it by ratification this week and proposals take a
> long time to pend, we might as well just have the correct gamestate.
> 
> On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 4:20 PM, VJ Rada  wrote:
>> I cause myself to receive a welcome package
>> 
>> On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:
>>> As Secretary, I flip the Floating Value to 114.
>>> 
>>> This week:
>>> 
>>> * Pending a proposal costs 1 AP or 6 sh.
>>> * Calling for judgement, if a player, costs 1 AP or 6 sh.
>>> * The reward for authoring or pending a successful proposal pended with 
>>> shinies is 3 sh.
>>> * The reward for judging a CFJ called with shinies is 6 sh.
>>> * The Stamp Value is 23 sh.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Secretary's Weekly Report
>>> 
>>> Date of this report: Sun, 10 Sep 2017
>>> Date of last report: Sun,  3 Sep 2017
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Recent events (all times UTC):
>>> 
>>> Mon, 21 Aug 2017 14:47:58  Agora paid o 15 sh.
>>> Mon, 21 Aug 2017 14:47:58  o paid Agora 11 sh.
>>> Mon, 21 Aug 2017 14:54:50  ais523 paid Agora 11 sh.
>>> Wed, 23 Aug 2017 03:31:05  Agora paid Quazie 5 sh.
>>> Wed, 23 Aug 2017 03:31:26  o paid Agora 3 sh.
>>> Wed, 23 Aug 2017 04:04:25  Agora paid K 50 sh.
>>> Wed, 23 Aug 2017 19:42:45  天火狐 paid Agora 11 sh.
>>> Thu, 24 Aug 2017 01:03:07  Agora paid ais523 5 sh.
>>> Thu, 24 Aug 2017 03:08:13  K deregistered
>>> Fri, 25 Aug 2017 19:21:50  Agora paid G. 50 sh.
>>> Sun, 27 Aug 2017 22:43:19  tmanthe2nd, Zachary Watterson deregistered
>>> - previous report -
>>> Mon, 28 Aug 2017 23:02:05  Agora paid o 15 sh.
>>> Mon, 28 Aug 2017 23:02:05  Agora paid CuddleBeam 50 sh.
>>> Mon, 28 Aug 2017 23:02:05  o caused a Shiny Relevelling Event (-5 sh.)
>>> Sat,  2 Sep 2017 04:06:47  Agora paid o 5 sh.
>>> Sun,  3 Sep 2017 21:28:19  Agora paid P.S.S. 6 sh.
>>> Sun,  3 Sep 2017 21:52:45  Agora paid P.S.S. 5 sh.
>>> Sun,  3 Sep 2017 21:53:02  Agora paid P.S.S. 5 sh.
>>> Sun,  3 Sep 2017 22:07:03  Agora paid P.S.S. 5 sh.
>>> - time of last report -
>>> Mon,  4 Sep 2017 21:59:53  P.S.S. paid Agora 4 sh.
>>> Mon,  4 Sep 2017 22:10:20  ais523 paid Agora 4 sh.
>>> Mon,  4 Sep 2017 22:18:07  o paid Agora 4 sh.
>>> Mon,  4 Sep 2017 22:21:11  Aris paid Agora 4 sh.
>>> Tue,  5 Sep 2017 05:06:00  ais523 paid o 10 sh.
>>> Tue,  5 Sep 2017 05:11:06  o transferred an o stamp to ais523
>>> Tue,  5 Sep 2017 18:27:50  nichdel paid Agora 4 sh.
>>> Thu,  7 Sep 2017 06:13:43  Agora paid V.J Rada 5 sh.
>>> Thu,  7 Sep 2017 06:21:18  Agora paid V.J Rada 5 sh.
>>> Thu,  7 Sep 2017 07:14:23  Agora paid Gaelan 24 sh.
>>> Thu,  7 Sep 2017 07:14:23  Gaelan paid CuddleBeamn 10 sh.
>>> Thu,  7 Sep 2017 23:23:46  o paid Agora 1 sh.
>>> Thu,  7 Sep 2017 23:33:23  o paid Agora 1 sh.
>>> Thu,  7 Sep 2017 23:39:53  o paid Agora 1 sh.
>>> Thu,  7 Sep 2017 23:45:56  o paid Agora 1 sh.
>>> Thu,  7 Sep 2017 19:48:39  o paid Agora 1 sh.
>>> Fri,  8 Sep 2017 02:17:14  o paid Agora 1 sh.
>>> Fri,  8 Sep 2017 05:24:06  o paid Agora 1 sh.
>>> Fri,  8 Sep 2017 17:02:13  G. paid Agora 1 sh.
>>> Fri,  8 Sep 2017 19:28:48  G. paid Agora 1 sh.
>>> Fri,  8 Sep 2017 19:26:15  G. paid Agora 4 sh.
>>> Fri,  8 Sep 2017 19:47:44  天火狐 paid Agora 4 sh.
>>> Fri,  8 Sep 2017 19:53:26  Quazie paid Agora 4 sh.
>>> Fri,  8 Sep 2017 20:21:36  CuddleBeam paid Agora 4 sh.
>>> Sat,  9 Sep 2017 07:20:38  o paid CuddleBeam 7 sh.
>>> Sat,  9 Sep 2017 19:20:25  Aris paid Agora 1 sh.
>>> Sat,  9 Sep 2017 19:42:37  Aris paid Agora 1 sh.
>>> Sat,  9 Sep 2017 21:26:49  o paid Agora 2 sh.
>>> Sat,  9 Sep 2017 21:51:28  Gaelan paid Agora 4 sh.
>>> Sat,  9 Sep 2017 21:52:47  Aris paid Agora 1 sh.
>>> Sun, 10 Sep 2017 22:37:41  V.J Rada deregistered Sprocklem
>>> Sun, 10 Sep 2017 22:38:36  Aris paid Agora 1 sh.
>>> Sun, 10 Sep 2017 22:40:01  Aris paid Agora 1 sh.
>>> Sun, 10 Sep 2017 22:56:31  Aris paid Agora 1 sh.
>>> Sun, 10 Sep 2017 22:58:07  Aris paid Agora 1 sh.
>>> Sun, 10 Sep 2017 23:05:47  V.J Rada paid Agora 1 sh.
>>> Sun, 10 Sep 2017 23:36:38  Gaelan paid Agora 1 sh.
>>> Mon, 11 Sep 2017 00:12:00  V.J Rada paid 天火狐 1 sh.
>>> Mon, 11 Sep 2017 01:51:45  Aris paid Agora 1 sh.
>>> Mon, 11 Sep 2017 03:54:53  Gaelan paid Agora 1 sh.
>>> Mon, 11 Sep 2017 05:42:35  Agora paid Aris 5 sh.
>>> Mon, 11 Sep 2017 17:35:30  ais523 deregistered
>>> Tue, 12 Sep 2017 03:45:16  o paid Aris 1 sh.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Personal Lockouts: None
>>> 
>>> Global Lockout: No
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Balances:
>>> 
>>> 114 Shinies  Agora
>>>   1 Shinies  Organization
>>>   1 ShiniesASaAA
>>> 885 Shinies  Player
>>>  53 ShiniesAris
>>>  63 ShiniesCuddleBeam
>>>  44 ShiniesG.
>>>  69 ShiniesGaelan
>>>  50 

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Secretary] Weekly Report

[Aris Merchant]

We are fixing it by ratification this week (or at least the floating value,
see G.'s RWO), and the fix proposal has been distributed. It's only a
matter of time before someone does the "fix everything" ratification too. I
recommend that this CoE be denied (note that that would not actually
violate any rules).

-Aris


On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 11:24 PM VJ Rada  wrote:

> Formal CoE: This report is a tissue of lies.
>
> If we aren't fixing it by ratification this week and proposals take a
> long time to pend, we might as well just have the correct gamestate.
>
> On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 4:20 PM, VJ Rada  wrote:
> > I cause myself to receive a welcome package
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:
> >> As Secretary, I flip the Floating Value to 114.
> >>
> >> This week:
> >>
> >> * Pending a proposal costs 1 AP or 6 sh.
> >> * Calling for judgement, if a player, costs 1 AP or 6 sh.
> >> * The reward for authoring or pending a successful proposal pended with
> shinies is 3 sh.
> >> * The reward for judging a CFJ called with shinies is 6 sh.
> >> * The Stamp Value is 23 sh.
> >>
> >>
> >> Secretary's Weekly Report
> >>
> >> Date of this report: Sun, 10 Sep 2017
> >> Date of last report: Sun,  3 Sep 2017
> >>
> >>
> >> Recent events (all times UTC):
> >>
> >> Mon, 21 Aug 2017 14:47:58  Agora paid o 15 sh.
> >> Mon, 21 Aug 2017 14:47:58  o paid Agora 11 sh.
> >> Mon, 21 Aug 2017 14:54:50  ais523 paid Agora 11 sh.
> >> Wed, 23 Aug 2017 03:31:05  Agora paid Quazie 5 sh.
> >> Wed, 23 Aug 2017 03:31:26  o paid Agora 3 sh.
> >> Wed, 23 Aug 2017 04:04:25  Agora paid K 50 sh.
> >> Wed, 23 Aug 2017 19:42:45  天火狐 paid Agora 11 sh.
> >> Thu, 24 Aug 2017 01:03:07  Agora paid ais523 5 sh.
> >> Thu, 24 Aug 2017 03:08:13  K deregistered
> >> Fri, 25 Aug 2017 19:21:50  Agora paid G. 50 sh.
> >> Sun, 27 Aug 2017 22:43:19  tmanthe2nd, Zachary Watterson deregistered
> >> - previous report -
> >> Mon, 28 Aug 2017 23:02:05  Agora paid o 15 sh.
> >> Mon, 28 Aug 2017 23:02:05  Agora paid CuddleBeam 50 sh.
> >> Mon, 28 Aug 2017 23:02:05  o caused a Shiny Relevelling Event (-5 sh.)
> >> Sat,  2 Sep 2017 04:06:47  Agora paid o 5 sh.
> >> Sun,  3 Sep 2017 21:28:19  Agora paid P.S.S. 6 sh.
> >> Sun,  3 Sep 2017 21:52:45  Agora paid P.S.S. 5 sh.
> >> Sun,  3 Sep 2017 21:53:02  Agora paid P.S.S. 5 sh.
> >> Sun,  3 Sep 2017 22:07:03  Agora paid P.S.S. 5 sh.
> >> - time of last report -
> >> Mon,  4 Sep 2017 21:59:53  P.S.S. paid Agora 4 sh.
> >> Mon,  4 Sep 2017 22:10:20  ais523 paid Agora 4 sh.
> >> Mon,  4 Sep 2017 22:18:07  o paid Agora 4 sh.
> >> Mon,  4 Sep 2017 22:21:11  Aris paid Agora 4 sh.
> >> Tue,  5 Sep 2017 05:06:00  ais523 paid o 10 sh.
> >> Tue,  5 Sep 2017 05:11:06  o transferred an o stamp to ais523
> >> Tue,  5 Sep 2017 18:27:50  nichdel paid Agora 4 sh.
> >> Thu,  7 Sep 2017 06:13:43  Agora paid V.J Rada 5 sh.
> >> Thu,  7 Sep 2017 06:21:18  Agora paid V.J Rada 5 sh.
> >> Thu,  7 Sep 2017 07:14:23  Agora paid Gaelan 24 sh.
> >> Thu,  7 Sep 2017 07:14:23  Gaelan paid CuddleBeamn 10 sh.
> >> Thu,  7 Sep 2017 23:23:46  o paid Agora 1 sh.
> >> Thu,  7 Sep 2017 23:33:23  o paid Agora 1 sh.
> >> Thu,  7 Sep 2017 23:39:53  o paid Agora 1 sh.
> >> Thu,  7 Sep 2017 23:45:56  o paid Agora 1 sh.
> >> Thu,  7 Sep 2017 19:48:39  o paid Agora 1 sh.
> >> Fri,  8 Sep 2017 02:17:14  o paid Agora 1 sh.
> >> Fri,  8 Sep 2017 05:24:06  o paid Agora 1 sh.
> >> Fri,  8 Sep 2017 17:02:13  G. paid Agora 1 sh.
> >> Fri,  8 Sep 2017 19:28:48  G. paid Agora 1 sh.
> >> Fri,  8 Sep 2017 19:26:15  G. paid Agora 4 sh.
> >> Fri,  8 Sep 2017 19:47:44  天火狐 paid Agora 4 sh.
> >> Fri,  8 Sep 2017 19:53:26  Quazie paid Agora 4 sh.
> >> Fri,  8 Sep 2017 20:21:36  CuddleBeam paid Agora 4 sh.
> >> Sat,  9 Sep 2017 07:20:38  o paid CuddleBeam 7 sh.
> >> Sat,  9 Sep 2017 19:20:25  Aris paid Agora 1 sh.
> >> Sat,  9 Sep 2017 19:42:37  Aris paid Agora 1 sh.
> >> Sat,  9 Sep 2017 21:26:49  o paid Agora 2 sh.
> >> Sat,  9 Sep 2017 21:51:28  Gaelan paid Agora 4 sh.
> >> Sat,  9 Sep 2017 21:52:47  Aris paid Agora 1 sh.
> >> Sun, 10 Sep 2017 22:37:41  V.J Rada deregistered Sprocklem
> >> Sun, 10 Sep 2017 22:38:36  Aris paid Agora 1 sh.
> >> Sun, 10 Sep 2017 22:40:01  Aris paid Agora 1 sh.
> >> Sun, 10 Sep 2017 22:56:31  Aris paid Agora 1 sh.
> >> Sun, 10 Sep 2017 22:58:07  Aris paid Agora 1 sh.
> >> Sun, 10 Sep 2017 23:05:47  V.J Rada paid Agora 1 sh.
> >> Sun, 10 Sep 2017 23:36:38  Gaelan paid Agora 1 sh.
> >> Mon, 11 Sep 2017 00:12:00  V.J Rada paid 天火狐 1 sh.
> >> Mon, 11 Sep 2017 01:51:45  Aris paid Agora 1 sh.
> >> Mon, 11 Sep 2017 03:54:53  Gaelan paid Agora 1 sh.
> >> Mon, 11 Sep 2017 05:42:35  Agora paid Aris 5 sh.
> >> Mon, 11 Sep 2017 17:35:30  ais523 deregistered
> >> Tue, 12 Sep 2017 03:45:16  o paid Aris 1 sh.
> >>
> >>
> >> Personal Lockouts: None
> >>
> >> Global Lockout: No
> >>
> >>
> >> Balances:
> >>
> >>  114 Shinies  Agora
> >>1 Shinies  

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Secretary] Weekly Report

[Cuddle Beam]

You can't, there's no money left (would what I have done succeeded)

On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 8:20 AM, VJ Rada  wrote:

> I cause myself to receive a welcome package
>
> On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:
> > As Secretary, I flip the Floating Value to 114.
> >
> > This week:
> >
> > * Pending a proposal costs 1 AP or 6 sh.
> > * Calling for judgement, if a player, costs 1 AP or 6 sh.
> > * The reward for authoring or pending a successful proposal pended with
> shinies is 3 sh.
> > * The reward for judging a CFJ called with shinies is 6 sh.
> > * The Stamp Value is 23 sh.
> >
> >
> > Secretary's Weekly Report
> >
> > Date of this report: Sun, 10 Sep 2017
> > Date of last report: Sun,  3 Sep 2017
> >
> >
> > Recent events (all times UTC):
> >
> > Mon, 21 Aug 2017 14:47:58  Agora paid o 15 sh.
> > Mon, 21 Aug 2017 14:47:58  o paid Agora 11 sh.
> > Mon, 21 Aug 2017 14:54:50  ais523 paid Agora 11 sh.
> > Wed, 23 Aug 2017 03:31:05  Agora paid Quazie 5 sh.
> > Wed, 23 Aug 2017 03:31:26  o paid Agora 3 sh.
> > Wed, 23 Aug 2017 04:04:25  Agora paid K 50 sh.
> > Wed, 23 Aug 2017 19:42:45  天火狐 paid Agora 11 sh.
> > Thu, 24 Aug 2017 01:03:07  Agora paid ais523 5 sh.
> > Thu, 24 Aug 2017 03:08:13  K deregistered
> > Fri, 25 Aug 2017 19:21:50  Agora paid G. 50 sh.
> > Sun, 27 Aug 2017 22:43:19  tmanthe2nd, Zachary Watterson deregistered
> > - previous report -
> > Mon, 28 Aug 2017 23:02:05  Agora paid o 15 sh.
> > Mon, 28 Aug 2017 23:02:05  Agora paid CuddleBeam 50 sh.
> > Mon, 28 Aug 2017 23:02:05  o caused a Shiny Relevelling Event (-5 sh.)
> > Sat,  2 Sep 2017 04:06:47  Agora paid o 5 sh.
> > Sun,  3 Sep 2017 21:28:19  Agora paid P.S.S. 6 sh.
> > Sun,  3 Sep 2017 21:52:45  Agora paid P.S.S. 5 sh.
> > Sun,  3 Sep 2017 21:53:02  Agora paid P.S.S. 5 sh.
> > Sun,  3 Sep 2017 22:07:03  Agora paid P.S.S. 5 sh.
> > - time of last report -
> > Mon,  4 Sep 2017 21:59:53  P.S.S. paid Agora 4 sh.
> > Mon,  4 Sep 2017 22:10:20  ais523 paid Agora 4 sh.
> > Mon,  4 Sep 2017 22:18:07  o paid Agora 4 sh.
> > Mon,  4 Sep 2017 22:21:11  Aris paid Agora 4 sh.
> > Tue,  5 Sep 2017 05:06:00  ais523 paid o 10 sh.
> > Tue,  5 Sep 2017 05:11:06  o transferred an o stamp to ais523
> > Tue,  5 Sep 2017 18:27:50  nichdel paid Agora 4 sh.
> > Thu,  7 Sep 2017 06:13:43  Agora paid V.J Rada 5 sh.
> > Thu,  7 Sep 2017 06:21:18  Agora paid V.J Rada 5 sh.
> > Thu,  7 Sep 2017 07:14:23  Agora paid Gaelan 24 sh.
> > Thu,  7 Sep 2017 07:14:23  Gaelan paid CuddleBeamn 10 sh.
> > Thu,  7 Sep 2017 23:23:46  o paid Agora 1 sh.
> > Thu,  7 Sep 2017 23:33:23  o paid Agora 1 sh.
> > Thu,  7 Sep 2017 23:39:53  o paid Agora 1 sh.
> > Thu,  7 Sep 2017 23:45:56  o paid Agora 1 sh.
> > Thu,  7 Sep 2017 19:48:39  o paid Agora 1 sh.
> > Fri,  8 Sep 2017 02:17:14  o paid Agora 1 sh.
> > Fri,  8 Sep 2017 05:24:06  o paid Agora 1 sh.
> > Fri,  8 Sep 2017 17:02:13  G. paid Agora 1 sh.
> > Fri,  8 Sep 2017 19:28:48  G. paid Agora 1 sh.
> > Fri,  8 Sep 2017 19:26:15  G. paid Agora 4 sh.
> > Fri,  8 Sep 2017 19:47:44  天火狐 paid Agora 4 sh.
> > Fri,  8 Sep 2017 19:53:26  Quazie paid Agora 4 sh.
> > Fri,  8 Sep 2017 20:21:36  CuddleBeam paid Agora 4 sh.
> > Sat,  9 Sep 2017 07:20:38  o paid CuddleBeam 7 sh.
> > Sat,  9 Sep 2017 19:20:25  Aris paid Agora 1 sh.
> > Sat,  9 Sep 2017 19:42:37  Aris paid Agora 1 sh.
> > Sat,  9 Sep 2017 21:26:49  o paid Agora 2 sh.
> > Sat,  9 Sep 2017 21:51:28  Gaelan paid Agora 4 sh.
> > Sat,  9 Sep 2017 21:52:47  Aris paid Agora 1 sh.
> > Sun, 10 Sep 2017 22:37:41  V.J Rada deregistered Sprocklem
> > Sun, 10 Sep 2017 22:38:36  Aris paid Agora 1 sh.
> > Sun, 10 Sep 2017 22:40:01  Aris paid Agora 1 sh.
> > Sun, 10 Sep 2017 22:56:31  Aris paid Agora 1 sh.
> > Sun, 10 Sep 2017 22:58:07  Aris paid Agora 1 sh.
> > Sun, 10 Sep 2017 23:05:47  V.J Rada paid Agora 1 sh.
> > Sun, 10 Sep 2017 23:36:38  Gaelan paid Agora 1 sh.
> > Mon, 11 Sep 2017 00:12:00  V.J Rada paid 天火狐 1 sh.
> > Mon, 11 Sep 2017 01:51:45  Aris paid Agora 1 sh.
> > Mon, 11 Sep 2017 03:54:53  Gaelan paid Agora 1 sh.
> > Mon, 11 Sep 2017 05:42:35  Agora paid Aris 5 sh.
> > Mon, 11 Sep 2017 17:35:30  ais523 deregistered
> > Tue, 12 Sep 2017 03:45:16  o paid Aris 1 sh.
> >
> >
> > Personal Lockouts: None
> >
> > Global Lockout: No
> >
> >
> > Balances:
> >
> >  114 Shinies  Agora
> >1 Shinies  Organization
> >1 ShiniesASaAA
> >  885 Shinies  Player
> >   53 ShiniesAris
> >   63 ShiniesCuddleBeam
> >   44 ShiniesG.
> >   69 ShiniesGaelan
> >   50 ShiniesIenpw III
> >   50 ShiniesMurphy
> >  102 ShiniesPublius Scribonius Scholasticus
> >   51 ShiniesQuazie
> >8 ShiniesV.J Rada
> >   50 ShiniesVeggiekeks
> >   55 Shiniesbabelian
> >   50 Shiniesbayushi
> >   50 Shiniesgrok
> >7 Shiniesnichdel
> > 

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Secretary] Weekly Report

[VJ Rada]

JK JK I don't.

On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 4:20 PM, VJ Rada  wrote:
> I cause myself to receive a welcome package
>
> On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:
>> As Secretary, I flip the Floating Value to 114.
>>
>> This week:
>>
>> * Pending a proposal costs 1 AP or 6 sh.
>> * Calling for judgement, if a player, costs 1 AP or 6 sh.
>> * The reward for authoring or pending a successful proposal pended with 
>> shinies is 3 sh.
>> * The reward for judging a CFJ called with shinies is 6 sh.
>> * The Stamp Value is 23 sh.
>>
>>
>> Secretary's Weekly Report
>>
>> Date of this report: Sun, 10 Sep 2017
>> Date of last report: Sun,  3 Sep 2017
>>
>>
>> Recent events (all times UTC):
>>
>> Mon, 21 Aug 2017 14:47:58  Agora paid o 15 sh.
>> Mon, 21 Aug 2017 14:47:58  o paid Agora 11 sh.
>> Mon, 21 Aug 2017 14:54:50  ais523 paid Agora 11 sh.
>> Wed, 23 Aug 2017 03:31:05  Agora paid Quazie 5 sh.
>> Wed, 23 Aug 2017 03:31:26  o paid Agora 3 sh.
>> Wed, 23 Aug 2017 04:04:25  Agora paid K 50 sh.
>> Wed, 23 Aug 2017 19:42:45  天火狐 paid Agora 11 sh.
>> Thu, 24 Aug 2017 01:03:07  Agora paid ais523 5 sh.
>> Thu, 24 Aug 2017 03:08:13  K deregistered
>> Fri, 25 Aug 2017 19:21:50  Agora paid G. 50 sh.
>> Sun, 27 Aug 2017 22:43:19  tmanthe2nd, Zachary Watterson deregistered
>> - previous report -
>> Mon, 28 Aug 2017 23:02:05  Agora paid o 15 sh.
>> Mon, 28 Aug 2017 23:02:05  Agora paid CuddleBeam 50 sh.
>> Mon, 28 Aug 2017 23:02:05  o caused a Shiny Relevelling Event (-5 sh.)
>> Sat,  2 Sep 2017 04:06:47  Agora paid o 5 sh.
>> Sun,  3 Sep 2017 21:28:19  Agora paid P.S.S. 6 sh.
>> Sun,  3 Sep 2017 21:52:45  Agora paid P.S.S. 5 sh.
>> Sun,  3 Sep 2017 21:53:02  Agora paid P.S.S. 5 sh.
>> Sun,  3 Sep 2017 22:07:03  Agora paid P.S.S. 5 sh.
>> - time of last report -
>> Mon,  4 Sep 2017 21:59:53  P.S.S. paid Agora 4 sh.
>> Mon,  4 Sep 2017 22:10:20  ais523 paid Agora 4 sh.
>> Mon,  4 Sep 2017 22:18:07  o paid Agora 4 sh.
>> Mon,  4 Sep 2017 22:21:11  Aris paid Agora 4 sh.
>> Tue,  5 Sep 2017 05:06:00  ais523 paid o 10 sh.
>> Tue,  5 Sep 2017 05:11:06  o transferred an o stamp to ais523
>> Tue,  5 Sep 2017 18:27:50  nichdel paid Agora 4 sh.
>> Thu,  7 Sep 2017 06:13:43  Agora paid V.J Rada 5 sh.
>> Thu,  7 Sep 2017 06:21:18  Agora paid V.J Rada 5 sh.
>> Thu,  7 Sep 2017 07:14:23  Agora paid Gaelan 24 sh.
>> Thu,  7 Sep 2017 07:14:23  Gaelan paid CuddleBeamn 10 sh.
>> Thu,  7 Sep 2017 23:23:46  o paid Agora 1 sh.
>> Thu,  7 Sep 2017 23:33:23  o paid Agora 1 sh.
>> Thu,  7 Sep 2017 23:39:53  o paid Agora 1 sh.
>> Thu,  7 Sep 2017 23:45:56  o paid Agora 1 sh.
>> Thu,  7 Sep 2017 19:48:39  o paid Agora 1 sh.
>> Fri,  8 Sep 2017 02:17:14  o paid Agora 1 sh.
>> Fri,  8 Sep 2017 05:24:06  o paid Agora 1 sh.
>> Fri,  8 Sep 2017 17:02:13  G. paid Agora 1 sh.
>> Fri,  8 Sep 2017 19:28:48  G. paid Agora 1 sh.
>> Fri,  8 Sep 2017 19:26:15  G. paid Agora 4 sh.
>> Fri,  8 Sep 2017 19:47:44  天火狐 paid Agora 4 sh.
>> Fri,  8 Sep 2017 19:53:26  Quazie paid Agora 4 sh.
>> Fri,  8 Sep 2017 20:21:36  CuddleBeam paid Agora 4 sh.
>> Sat,  9 Sep 2017 07:20:38  o paid CuddleBeam 7 sh.
>> Sat,  9 Sep 2017 19:20:25  Aris paid Agora 1 sh.
>> Sat,  9 Sep 2017 19:42:37  Aris paid Agora 1 sh.
>> Sat,  9 Sep 2017 21:26:49  o paid Agora 2 sh.
>> Sat,  9 Sep 2017 21:51:28  Gaelan paid Agora 4 sh.
>> Sat,  9 Sep 2017 21:52:47  Aris paid Agora 1 sh.
>> Sun, 10 Sep 2017 22:37:41  V.J Rada deregistered Sprocklem
>> Sun, 10 Sep 2017 22:38:36  Aris paid Agora 1 sh.
>> Sun, 10 Sep 2017 22:40:01  Aris paid Agora 1 sh.
>> Sun, 10 Sep 2017 22:56:31  Aris paid Agora 1 sh.
>> Sun, 10 Sep 2017 22:58:07  Aris paid Agora 1 sh.
>> Sun, 10 Sep 2017 23:05:47  V.J Rada paid Agora 1 sh.
>> Sun, 10 Sep 2017 23:36:38  Gaelan paid Agora 1 sh.
>> Mon, 11 Sep 2017 00:12:00  V.J Rada paid 天火狐 1 sh.
>> Mon, 11 Sep 2017 01:51:45  Aris paid Agora 1 sh.
>> Mon, 11 Sep 2017 03:54:53  Gaelan paid Agora 1 sh.
>> Mon, 11 Sep 2017 05:42:35  Agora paid Aris 5 sh.
>> Mon, 11 Sep 2017 17:35:30  ais523 deregistered
>> Tue, 12 Sep 2017 03:45:16  o paid Aris 1 sh.
>>
>>
>> Personal Lockouts: None
>>
>> Global Lockout: No
>>
>>
>> Balances:
>>
>>  114 Shinies  Agora
>>1 Shinies  Organization
>>1 ShiniesASaAA
>>  885 Shinies  Player
>>   53 ShiniesAris
>>   63 ShiniesCuddleBeam
>>   44 ShiniesG.
>>   69 ShiniesGaelan
>>   50 ShiniesIenpw III
>>   50 ShiniesMurphy
>>  102 ShiniesPublius Scribonius Scholasticus
>>   51 ShiniesQuazie
>>8 ShiniesV.J Rada
>>   50 ShiniesVeggiekeks
>>   55 Shiniesbabelian
>>   50 Shiniesbayushi
>>   50 Shiniesgrok
>>7 Shiniesnichdel
>>   97 Shinieso
>>   50 Shiniesomd
>>   36 Shinies天火狐
>>
>>
>> Stamps:
>>
>> Made By  Owned By Qty
>> 

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Secretary] Weekly Report

[Aris Merchant]

On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 10:24 PM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:
> On Aug 17, 2017, at 1:20 AM, Aris Merchant 
>  wrote:
>> On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 10:18 PM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:
>>>
 On Aug 17, 2017, at 1:17 AM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:

 Secretary's Weekly Report

 Balances:

 85 Shinies  Agora
>>>
>>> As Secretary, I flip the Floating Level to 85.
>>>
>>> -o
>>>
>> CoE: It's the floating value.
>>
>> -Aris
>
> That’s the second time I’ve done that.
>
> -o
>

Look at me. I publish drafts of every Promotor report, check
everything like twice, and still manage to make mistakes on a pretty
regular basis. :)

-Aris

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Secretary] Weekly Report

[Owen Jacobson]

On Aug 17, 2017, at 1:20 AM, Aris Merchant  
wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 10:18 PM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:
>> 
>>> On Aug 17, 2017, at 1:17 AM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Secretary's Weekly Report
>>> 
>>> Balances:
>>> 
>>> 85 Shinies  Agora
>> 
>> As Secretary, I flip the Floating Level to 85.
>> 
>> -o
>> 
> CoE: It's the floating value.
> 
> -Aris

That’s the second time I’ve done that.

-o



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Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Secretary] Weekly Report

[Alex Smith]

On Sat, 2017-07-29 at 00:34 -0400, Owen Jacobson wrote:
> On Jul 28, 2017, at 9:55 AM, Nic Evans  wrote:
> > Real idea: Ratify the Ruleset every Read the Ruleset Week.
> Seconded.

I like this idea, but it should be a tradition that we do so via
proposal, as opposed to something automatic in the rules.

-- 
ais523

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Secretary] Weekly Report

[Owen Jacobson]

> On Jul 28, 2017, at 9:55 AM, Nic Evans  wrote:
> 
> On 07/27/2017 08:30 PM, Ørjan Johansen wrote:
>> I note that GII disturbingly requires the SLR to be _accurate_ for any of 
>> the actions to happen. What's the likelihood of that, when (according to 
>> itself) it hasn't been ratified in 3 years...
>> 
>> Greetings,
>> Ørjan.
> 
> 
> Real idea: Ratify the Ruleset every Read the Ruleset Week.

Seconded.

-o



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Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Secretary] Weekly Report

[Nic Evans]

On 07/27/2017 08:30 PM, Ørjan Johansen wrote:
I note that GII disturbingly requires the SLR to be _accurate_ for any 
of the actions to happen. What's the likelihood of that, when 
(according to itself) it hasn't been ratified in 3 years...


Greetings,
Ørjan.



Real idea: Ratify the Ruleset every Read the Ruleset Week.

Bad idea: Attempt to ratify two Rulesets every Read the Ruleset Week, 
one including a subtle scam, and make players discern the two.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Secretary] Weekly Report

[V.J Rada]

Surely it should be presumed accurate until somebody finds an inaccuracy

On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 11:30 AM, Ørjan Johansen  wrote:

> On Wed, 26 Jul 2017, Owen Jacobson wrote:
>
> On Jul 26, 2017, at 9:48 PM, Nic Evans  wrote:
>>>
>>> CoE: Gaelan paid me 2 shinies (through GII, when I published the
>>> Rulekeepor report).
>>>
>>
>> Note the report’s effective date. (Sorry - I was out of town on short
>> notice.) That payment will appear in this week’s report.
>>
>
> I note that GII disturbingly requires the SLR to be _accurate_ for any of
> the actions to happen. What's the likelihood of that, when (according to
> itself) it hasn't been ratified in 3 years...
>
> Greetings,
> Ørjan.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Secretary] Weekly Report

[Ørjan Johansen]

On Wed, 26 Jul 2017, Owen Jacobson wrote:


On Jul 26, 2017, at 9:48 PM, Nic Evans  wrote:

CoE: Gaelan paid me 2 shinies (through GII, when I published the Rulekeepor 
report).


Note the report’s effective date. (Sorry - I was out of town on short 
notice.) That payment will appear in this week’s report.


I note that GII disturbingly requires the SLR to be _accurate_ for any of 
the actions to happen. What's the likelihood of that, when (according to 
itself) it hasn't been ratified in 3 years...


Greetings,
Ørjan.

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Secretary] Weekly Report

[Owen Jacobson]

> On Jul 26, 2017, at 9:48 PM, Nic Evans  wrote:
> 
> CoE: Gaelan paid me 2 shinies (through GII, when I published the Rulekeepor 
> report).

Note the report’s effective date. (Sorry - I was out of town on short notice.) 
That payment will appear in this week’s report.

-o



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DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Secretary] Weekly Report

[Quazie]

You're gonna break that pledge, aren't you?

On Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 20:23 Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, 15 Jun 2017, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > Secretary's Weekly Report
>
> I pledge that I SHALL NOT deny any CoE concerning this alleged report.
>
> I note that I do NOT give any willful consent to be bound by the Rules.
>
>
>
>

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Secretary] Weekly Report

[Kerim Aydin]

On Fri, 16 Jun 2017, Alex Smith wrote:
> On Thu, 2017-06-15 at 20:04 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > This logic (the Secretary's Report can only be published by the 
> > Secretary) would still break the whole purpose of allowing anyone to
> > do it in times when the Secretary is uncertain, I think.
> 
> Well, you could do it via RWO if you know that the Secretary is
> uncertain.
> 
> The main purpose here is to cause ratification if everyone is
> collectively mistaken as to who the Secretary is. A non-Secretary (who
> thinks they're Secretary) posts the report, nobody challenges it (why
> would they?), it self-ratifies. However, pointing out that it wasn't by
> the Secretary stops the automatic ratification and forces it to be done
> manually.

I still disagree that it does, so I guess that's CFJ territory :)
(not my main point and not a pressing concern, so I'm not actually
calling one...)

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Secretary] Weekly Report

[Kerim Aydin]

On Fri, 16 Jun 2017, Alex Smith wrote:
> On Thu, 2017-06-15 at 18:23 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > 
> > On Fri, 16 Jun 2017, Alex Smith wrote:
> > > there's at least one error in it. Thus, in order to block ratification,
> > > I picked the mistake in the report that was a) most clearly a mistake, 
> > > and b) hardest for you to correct.
> > 
> > But I don't need to correct that for this particular self-ratification to
> > function!
> 
> OK, I guess the argument here is about the semantics of "identifying a
> document and explaining the scope and nature of a perceived error in
> it:" in rule 2201. Note that pointing out *any* error in a document
> prevents *the entire document* self-ratifying. I was under the
> impression that the "error" identified need not be an error, or indeed
> have any relationship to the document (i.e. it's just there for
> informing people about the reason behind the CoE), but I'm now not
> entirely sure that's correct.

Ah, it is confusing!  I would say that the R2201 "document defined by 
the rules as self-ratifying" is actually the *portion* of the report 
purporting to contain the switch values (Rule 2162), as that portion 
(a sub-document if you will) is the only thing defined by the rules as 
self-ratifying!

It doesn't matter in this case because I missed the "whole document"
part, and it means that 天火狐's CoE, which I thought covered one line of
the switch portion, thus CoE'd the whole set of switches whichever way
we think of it.

> CoE: the implicit claim made by the document in question (that was
> recently published by G., purporting to be the Secretary's Report) to
> contain a section of the Secretary's Report is invalid, because a
> Secretary's Report can only be published by the Secretary.

This logic (the Secretary's Report can only be published by the 
Secretary) would still break the whole purpose of allowing anyone to
do it in times when the Secretary is uncertain, I think.

-G.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Secretary] Weekly Report

[V.J Rada]

Unless "e SHALL either impose summary judgement on a player" means he must
only do it to one player to be absolved of this rule.

The card rules are badly written.

On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 11:51 AM, V.J Rada  wrote:

> Fun fact about cards "
>
>   As part of the Referee's weekly duties, e SHALL either impose
>   Summary Judgment on a player or truthfully announce that e
>   believes that there are no rules violations in the preceding
>   Agoran week for which a Card has not already been issued."
>
> conflicts with the previous paragraph
>
>  "The Referee CANNOT Point eir Finger or impose Summary Judgment
>   more than five total times per week, or more than twice per week
>   at or on the same player."
>
>
> if there are more than 5 valid finger points by other players, the Referee 
> has to break the rule and leaves himself open to (green) Cardation.
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 11:34 AM, Alex Smith 
> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 2017-06-15 at 18:23 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, 16 Jun 2017, Alex Smith wrote:
>> > > there's at least one error in it. Thus, in order to block
>> ratification,
>> > > I picked the mistake in the report that was a) most clearly a
>> mistake,
>> > > and b) hardest for you to correct.
>> >
>> > But I don't need to correct that for this particular self-ratification
>> to
>> > function!
>>
>> OK, I guess the argument here is about the semantics of "identifying a
>> document and explaining the scope and nature of a perceived error in
>> it:" in rule 2201. Note that pointing out *any* error in a document
>> prevents *the entire document* self-ratifying. I was under the
>> impression that the "error" identified need not be an error, or indeed
>> have any relationship to the document (i.e. it's just there for
>> informing people about the reason behind the CoE), but I'm now not
>> entirely sure that's correct.
>>
>> Let me make my CoE a bit more specific to address this point:
>>
>> CoE: the implicit claim made by the document in question (that was
>> recently published by G., purporting to be the Secretary's Report) to
>> contain a section of the Secretary's Report is invalid, because a
>> Secretary's Report can only be published by the Secretary.
>>
>> (Note that the implicit claim is necessarily part of the document, or
>> otherwise the document would not be self-ratifying in the first place.)
>>
>> Normally we don't bother with this level of specificity in Agora, but I
>> agree that when someone's attempting a scam (and this is a scam-like
>> action, even if it isn't necessarily intended to gain an advantage), it
>> pays to be as precise as possible.
>>
>> --
>> ais523
>>
>
>

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Secretary] Weekly Report

[V.J Rada]

Fun fact about cards "

  As part of the Referee's weekly duties, e SHALL either impose
  Summary Judgment on a player or truthfully announce that e
  believes that there are no rules violations in the preceding
  Agoran week for which a Card has not already been issued."

conflicts with the previous paragraph

 "The Referee CANNOT Point eir Finger or impose Summary Judgment
  more than five total times per week, or more than twice per week
  at or on the same player."


if there are more than 5 valid finger points by other players, the
Referee has to break the rule and leaves himself open to (green)
Cardation.


On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 11:34 AM, Alex Smith 
wrote:

> On Thu, 2017-06-15 at 18:23 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 16 Jun 2017, Alex Smith wrote:
> > > there's at least one error in it. Thus, in order to block ratification,
> > > I picked the mistake in the report that was a) most clearly a mistake,
> > > and b) hardest for you to correct.
> >
> > But I don't need to correct that for this particular self-ratification to
> > function!
>
> OK, I guess the argument here is about the semantics of "identifying a
> document and explaining the scope and nature of a perceived error in
> it:" in rule 2201. Note that pointing out *any* error in a document
> prevents *the entire document* self-ratifying. I was under the
> impression that the "error" identified need not be an error, or indeed
> have any relationship to the document (i.e. it's just there for
> informing people about the reason behind the CoE), but I'm now not
> entirely sure that's correct.
>
> Let me make my CoE a bit more specific to address this point:
>
> CoE: the implicit claim made by the document in question (that was
> recently published by G., purporting to be the Secretary's Report) to
> contain a section of the Secretary's Report is invalid, because a
> Secretary's Report can only be published by the Secretary.
>
> (Note that the implicit claim is necessarily part of the document, or
> otherwise the document would not be self-ratifying in the first place.)
>
> Normally we don't bother with this level of specificity in Agora, but I
> agree that when someone's attempting a scam (and this is a scam-like
> action, even if it isn't necessarily intended to gain an advantage), it
> pays to be as precise as possible.
>
> --
> ais523
>

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Secretary] Weekly Report

[Owen Jacobson]

On Jun 15, 2017, at 7:14 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Jun 2017, Alex Smith wrote:
>> On Thu, 2017-06-15 at 07:49 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>>> Secretary's Weekly Report
>> 
>> Just to make absolutely sure:
>> 
>> CoE: You are not the Secretary.
> 
> C'mon now.  You just said yourself that the rule was designed so that
> anyone could do it.  CoEing the Officeholder switch in the ADoP Report
> has nothing to do with the values of switches in this report.  Whether
> or not I'm the secretary or not has no bearing on whether the report
> (the document) claims to be a particular report of particular switches.
> I don't really want to explore all these tertiary issues that come from
> ignoring plain readings of the rules.  Please CoE on the contents of
> the report (the switch values) if you find it necessary.
> 
> I also find it interesting that everyone's basing their interpretations
> of this report on the From: line.  I thought long-standing precedent
> was that we paid attention to the message contents, not the headers.

Were this a carding scenario, I’d base my reasoning on 天火狐’s CoE. In fact, the 
only reason I haven’t posted one is that e beat me to it - it takes _time_ to 
review the contents for factual accuracy.

It’s pretty clear that you intentionally published a misleading report, but 
without malice, so a Yellow Card is likely appropriate. The significant, but 
small, effect would be the creation of a potentially self-ratifying document 
containing intentional errors. I can flesh that out, but that’s the bones of it.

I’m still convinced I can’t give you a card, and I suspect you won’t 
re-register until it’s no longer possible for me to do so. The real question 
is, am I breaking any rules by _failing_ to card you? Feel free to assume that 
I’m not going to lie in the upcoming Referee’s report about whether I believe 
any infractions have occurred this week.

-o



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Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Secretary] Weekly Report

[Kerim Aydin]

On Fri, 16 Jun 2017, Alex Smith wrote:
> there's at least one error in it. Thus, in order to block ratification,
> I picked the mistake in the report that was a) most clearly a mistake, 
> and b) hardest for you to correct.

But I don't need to correct that for this particular self-ratification to
function!

I'm using this, specific to switches.  Rule 2162:
  That officer's (weekly, if not specified
  otherwise) report includes the value of each instance of that
  switch whose value is not its default value; a public
  document purporting to be this portion of that officer's
  report is self-ratifying, and implies that other instances
  are at their default value.

and this definition:

  Purport.  1.  appear or claim to be or do something, especially
falsely; profess.

So here's my logic stages, let me know if you think my logic breaks down,
and exactly why?

1.  The "public document" in question does not include the email headers,
 so the document itself doesn't make claims about any particular
 person being its publisher.

2.  The document claims to be "that officer's" report for Shiny switches,
 including the portion containing switch values.

3.  The word "purport" implies that even a false claim qualifies it to
 be self-ratifying.  In fact, a false claim would be *especially*
 qualifying if you follow the exact dictionary definition.  And as you
 said earlier, "purport" is used specifically to allow it to function
 when we might know or learn it's a false claim at some point.

4.  The Secretary Officeholder switch is NOT purported to be part of
 this report.  That's explicitly part of the ADoP's report.  So
 it's not subject to ratification here.

Therefore, even if you CoE that I am "not the Secretary", that still 
leaves a document purporting (albeit falsely) to contain self-ratifying 
portions of an officer's report, which is what R2162 requires.  Therefore
that portion is still subject to self-ratification, and the portions so-
subject have not been CoE'd by you.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Secretary] Weekly Report

[Alex Smith]

On Thu, 2017-06-15 at 16:14 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 15 Jun 2017, Alex Smith wrote:
> > On Thu, 2017-06-15 at 07:49 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > > Secretary's Weekly Report
> > 
> > Just to make absolutely sure:
> > 
> > CoE: You are not the Secretary.
> 
> C'mon now.  You just said yourself that the rule was designed so that
> anyone could do it.  CoEing the Officeholder switch in the ADoP Report
> has nothing to do with the values of switches in this report.  Whether
> or not I'm the secretary or not has no bearing on whether the report
> (the document) claims to be a particular report of particular switches.
> I don't really want to explore all these tertiary issues that come from 
> ignoring plain readings of the rules.  Please CoE on the contents of
> the report (the switch values) if you find it necessary.

Actually, my assumption was that as you claim not to be bound by the
rules, and thus rule 2143 in particular, I had no basis on which to
expect you to put in the normal effort that an officer does to verify
the correctness of the report. Normally, when I see an office report,
I'm assuming that the officer has made at least a good-faith effort to
ensure that it's correct. Given that part of the point of your original
test was to violate that rule, it seems inappropriate to allow the
report to self-ratify, on the basis that the context implies that
there's at least one error in it. Thus, in order to block ratification,
I picked the mistake in the report that was a) most clearly a mistake, 
and b) hardest for you to correct.

-- 
ais523

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Secretary] Weekly Report

[Kerim Aydin]

On Thu, 15 Jun 2017, Alex Smith wrote:
> On Thu, 2017-06-15 at 07:49 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > Secretary's Weekly Report
> 
> Just to make absolutely sure:
> 
> CoE: You are not the Secretary.

C'mon now.  You just said yourself that the rule was designed so that
anyone could do it.  CoEing the Officeholder switch in the ADoP Report
has nothing to do with the values of switches in this report.  Whether
or not I'm the secretary or not has no bearing on whether the report
(the document) claims to be a particular report of particular switches.
I don't really want to explore all these tertiary issues that come from 
ignoring plain readings of the rules.  Please CoE on the contents of
the report (the switch values) if you find it necessary.

I also find it interesting that everyone's basing their interpretations
of this report on the From: line.  I thought long-standing precedent
was that we paid attention to the message contents, not the headers.

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Secretary] Weekly Report

[Owen Jacobson]

Gameplay note:

On Jun 14, 2017, at 3:23 AM, Quazie  wrote:

> COE - I paid 30 shinies to pend my 5 oroposals


In the interests of friendliness and expedience, I choose to interpret

> For each proposal submitted above, of which there are 5, I N shinies to Agora 
> to pend the proposal, where N is the minimum price I can pay to pend a 
> proposal and have it succeed right now.


as if it read

> For each proposal submitted above, of which there are 5, I >>pay<< N shinies 
> to Agora to pend the proposal, where N is the minimum price I can pay to pend 
> a proposal and have it succeed right now.


which makes this CoE correct and avoids challenging the validity of the current 
round of proposal voting.

-o



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