Re: [android-developers] Re: Market package name on Xoom?
it would be, in this case, a minor phone OS that likely would not have stood a chance, marketing wise, or programming wise, without google, so the case still stands. On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 10:48 PM, Greg Donald gdon...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 4:44 PM, Hari Edo hari@gmail.com wrote: Without Dianne's team, Android wouldn't be. Google bought Android, it would indeed be without her. http://www.google.com/search?q=google+buys+android -- Greg Donald destiney.com | gregdonald.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Re: Market package name on Xoom?
Really interesting to see a little sneak peak behind the scenes of Android's development. Would be interesting to see more of that honestly. Thanks for all you do Dianne, it's greatly appreciated. -- Chris Stewart http://chriswstewart.com On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 1:16 PM, Dianne Hackborn hack...@android.com wrote: Hi all, I appreciate people jumping to me defense, but this is really not necessary. To be honest, Shane's reply was so tame compared to other discussions I've had that it didn't even register to me as rude. (And to be clear, I am not telling people absolutely to not do something, I just try when I see someone doing something that will cause problems in the future, to tell them don't do this because your code will break. I can't stop people from doing stuff that will break, I just want them to know this going in.) Anyway to address a few more comments -- Technically my job is to manage the Android core frameworks. Whether this includes replying to developers on forums is not specified, but personally I see that as part of the job. Whatever the case it is nothing like the main part of the job... so I post on these forums mostly when I am not at work (like I am now, before going to work). This is mostly a matter of prioritizing my time -- should I spend that time posting to these forums, or working on new versions of Android, or investigating bugs like the onStartCommand() that has been discussed elsewhere here? The reason I ask people to not send replies directly to me is because that does not benefit anyone else, and the time I spend replying to the same question twice means one less question I can answer. I already can't keep up with all the questions on online forums, so I want to keep my time spent there where it benefits everyone. And as far as who developed Android -- what Android is today was developed mostly at Google. When I joined Google and started on Android, most of the existing work (which was creating a mobile API unified across Java, JavaScript, and C++) was being replaced with the Dalvik Uber Alles approach we have today. Some of the original implementation remains in bits and pieces (such as the C++ AssetManager), but what you think of Android today was mostly created from 2005 to 2007/2008 while engineers were at Google. Activities, notifications, resources, Dalvik, content providers, the view hierarchy, and on, and on, that was all done by engineers while working at Google. (I should also say that Google's management was also strongly involved with Android and helped make the project successful. For example, we had quarterly updates where had to show them real progress in the software. This was extremely valuable from the start to focus development priorities on what was needed to ship the software. Did I mention Google is a pretty awesome company? It is. I doubt Android could have happened anywhere else.) Anyway, let's consider discussions about who is being rude or whatever done and get back to more interesting technical stuff. :) On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 9:36 AM, Indicator Veritatis mej1...@yahoo.comwrote: As I read your reply, I somehow remember the saying of Ben Franklin from his Wit and Wisdom, Quarrels would be neither bitter nor long, if on one side -only-, lay the wrong. This is because, yes, Shane did not need to be rude. But even after having defended Dianne's answer in another post, I now feel the need to point out how her answer was not an example of sterling politeness, either. Even though she was 100% correct to warn against hard coding package names. In your own words, none of the backlash would have happened if Dianne has not been, true to style, so extremely curt, writing just like so many highly accomplished technical people who get everything technically correct, but everything that is not technical not correct: ( One should expect a backlash when two out of three sentences read like an impatient mother scolding a child, starting out with such an abrupt imperative, Don't. Nor is it often considered helpful to say Don't do A without proposing an -alternative- to A. Speaking of alternatives, it surprises me no one has noticed yet: Dianne's prohibition was not on using package names, but on using HARD-CODED package names. Why has no one mentioned alternatives? Put the package name in a configuration file somewhere, or (even more extreme, in my opinion), pull it down from a server, so that it can be changed when the package name changes, without having to download a new APK. Surely Shane can get the client to accept that. On Feb 28, 3:03 pm, Justin Anderson magouyaw...@gmail.com wrote: None of that matters... It's just a simple matter of etiquette. When asking for help you don't have to be rude if you don't like the answer. And if you feel it doesn't apply then great... don't apply it! The OP could just as easily have said Thanks for the advice
[android-developers] Re: Market package name on Xoom?
Ah, so you have a history of saying impolitic things! Now we understand you much better;) On Feb 28, 5:44 pm, Shane Isbell shane.isb...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Justin Anderson magouyaw...@gmail.comwrote: None of that matters... It's just a simple matter of etiquette. When asking for help you don't have to be rude if you don't like the answer. And if you feel it doesn't apply then great... don't apply it! The OP could just as easily have said Thanks for the advice Dianne, but in my case this doesn't apply because of X, Y, and Z. and then none of the backlash would have happened No reason whatsoever to cop an attitude... You guys crack me up. I haven't had this type of backlash since the time I said the G1 looked like a brick when it first came out. Shane -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: Market package name on Xoom?
The way you reach your conclusion from your premises is so illogical, you are casting doubt on your own ability to think logically enough to be a competent programmer. The real reason Dianne has quite a following is because she really does know Android extremely well, having been at the center of everything Android since very near its beginning. And she has dispensed a great deal of valuable Android knowledge in this forum over the years, too, even if some of her responses were so brief they read like Delphic utterances:( And not surprisingly, Dianne is 100% correct on this one: hard coding package names is bound to break the code, whether now or in the future. If it really is, as you say, a hard requirement then you are going to have to resign yourself to having broken code. You have been warned, don't shoot the messenger. Go back to your client and explain the consequences of this hard requirement. You just might find it is not such a hard requirement after all. Finally, I have argued with Dianne about some things (usually related to the overly brief character of her replies), but I have never sent her or any other group member 'hate mail'. Don't go there, if anyone else goes there, don't support them, distance yourself from them. On Feb 28, 2:15 pm, Shane Isbell shane.isb...@gmail.com wrote: It appears that Dianne has quite a following but enough with the hate emails, both public and private. I have control over the environment and distribution so saying not to do something just doesn't apply in my case. Shane On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 2:06 PM, rich friedel rich.frie...@gmail.comwrote: boy you have balls! she's only the one who makes this OS happen... show some respect... On Feb 28, 2011 3:17 PM, Shane Isbell shane.isb...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 12:00 PM, Dianne Hackborn hack...@android.com wrote: Don't hard-code package names. This is fragile, as you've already found. Don't continue doing it. You'll just break again sometime in the future. If there is no public API to do something so simple, then opening with market package name way is the only way. I have a hard-requirement to open the market (all tested on specific devices and specific firmware before-hand). And who are you to tell me not to do it anyway? I understand the limitations. Shane -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: Market package name on Xoom?
You are misinterpreting the tag line. It is not because she only answers when convenient, it is because both the question and the answer belong in a public forum, best of all this one, so that it becomes part of the public knowledge base. This is SUCH a common meme in open source software, I am surprised you missed it. On Feb 28, 2:52 pm, Greg Donald gdon...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 4:42 PM, rich friedel rich.frie...@gmail.com wrote: framework engineers who takes her free time to help people like you and me. Free time? You think she's not getting paid? You did notice the don't email me privately, cause I don't have time to help you thing in all her emails, right? She answers questions when they are convenient to answer, much like everyone else here. -- Greg Donald destiney.com | gregdonald.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Re: Market package name on Xoom?
On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 9:15 AM, Indicator Veritatis mej1...@yahoo.comwrote: The way you reach your conclusion from your premises is so illogical, you are casting doubt on your own ability to think logically enough to be a competent programmer. The real reason Dianne has quite a following is because she really does know Android extremely well, having been at the center of everything Android since very near its beginning. And she has dispensed a great deal of valuable Android knowledge in this forum over the years, too, even if some of her responses were so brief they read like Delphic utterances:( And not surprisingly, Dianne is 100% correct on this one: hard coding package names is bound to break the code, whether now or in the future. If it really is, as you say, a hard requirement then you are going to have to resign yourself to having broken code. You have been warned, don't shoot the messenger. Go back to your client and explain the consequences of this hard requirement. You just might find it is not such a hard requirement after all. I don't know how many times I have to say but the client has complete control of the environment. Why is this so difficult to understand? Shane -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: Market package name on Xoom?
As I read your reply, I somehow remember the saying of Ben Franklin from his Wit and Wisdom, Quarrels would be neither bitter nor long, if on one side -only-, lay the wrong. This is because, yes, Shane did not need to be rude. But even after having defended Dianne's answer in another post, I now feel the need to point out how her answer was not an example of sterling politeness, either. Even though she was 100% correct to warn against hard coding package names. In your own words, none of the backlash would have happened if Dianne has not been, true to style, so extremely curt, writing just like so many highly accomplished technical people who get everything technically correct, but everything that is not technical not correct: ( One should expect a backlash when two out of three sentences read like an impatient mother scolding a child, starting out with such an abrupt imperative, Don't. Nor is it often considered helpful to say Don't do A without proposing an -alternative- to A. Speaking of alternatives, it surprises me no one has noticed yet: Dianne's prohibition was not on using package names, but on using HARD-CODED package names. Why has no one mentioned alternatives? Put the package name in a configuration file somewhere, or (even more extreme, in my opinion), pull it down from a server, so that it can be changed when the package name changes, without having to download a new APK. Surely Shane can get the client to accept that. On Feb 28, 3:03 pm, Justin Anderson magouyaw...@gmail.com wrote: None of that matters... It's just a simple matter of etiquette. When asking for help you don't have to be rude if you don't like the answer. And if you feel it doesn't apply then great... don't apply it! The OP could just as easily have said Thanks for the advice Dianne, but in my case this doesn't apply because of X, Y, and Z. and then none of the backlash would have happened No reason whatsoever to cop an attitude... On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 3:54 PM, rich friedel rich.frie...@gmail.comwrote: You're right. Mr. Edo didn't finish, so let me... ...wouldn't be the super awesome mobile framework that we enjoy and love! On Feb 28, 2011 5:49 PM, Greg Donald gdon...@gmail.com wrote: -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Re: Market package name on Xoom?
* I don't know how many times I have to say but the client has complete control of the environment. Why is this so difficult to understand?* Because obviously is not true... otherwise you would not have had this problem in the first place. :-) On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 10:25 AM, Shane Isbell shane.isb...@gmail.comwrote: On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 9:15 AM, Indicator Veritatis mej1...@yahoo.comwrote: The way you reach your conclusion from your premises is so illogical, you are casting doubt on your own ability to think logically enough to be a competent programmer. The real reason Dianne has quite a following is because she really does know Android extremely well, having been at the center of everything Android since very near its beginning. And she has dispensed a great deal of valuable Android knowledge in this forum over the years, too, even if some of her responses were so brief they read like Delphic utterances:( And not surprisingly, Dianne is 100% correct on this one: hard coding package names is bound to break the code, whether now or in the future. If it really is, as you say, a hard requirement then you are going to have to resign yourself to having broken code. You have been warned, don't shoot the messenger. Go back to your client and explain the consequences of this hard requirement. You just might find it is not such a hard requirement after all. I don't know how many times I have to say but the client has complete control of the environment. Why is this so difficult to understand? Shane -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Re: Market package name on Xoom?
Hi all, I appreciate people jumping to me defense, but this is really not necessary. To be honest, Shane's reply was so tame compared to other discussions I've had that it didn't even register to me as rude. (And to be clear, I am not telling people absolutely to not do something, I just try when I see someone doing something that will cause problems in the future, to tell them don't do this because your code will break. I can't stop people from doing stuff that will break, I just want them to know this going in.) Anyway to address a few more comments -- Technically my job is to manage the Android core frameworks. Whether this includes replying to developers on forums is not specified, but personally I see that as part of the job. Whatever the case it is nothing like the main part of the job... so I post on these forums mostly when I am not at work (like I am now, before going to work). This is mostly a matter of prioritizing my time -- should I spend that time posting to these forums, or working on new versions of Android, or investigating bugs like the onStartCommand() that has been discussed elsewhere here? The reason I ask people to not send replies directly to me is because that does not benefit anyone else, and the time I spend replying to the same question twice means one less question I can answer. I already can't keep up with all the questions on online forums, so I want to keep my time spent there where it benefits everyone. And as far as who developed Android -- what Android is today was developed mostly at Google. When I joined Google and started on Android, most of the existing work (which was creating a mobile API unified across Java, JavaScript, and C++) was being replaced with the Dalvik Uber Alles approach we have today. Some of the original implementation remains in bits and pieces (such as the C++ AssetManager), but what you think of Android today was mostly created from 2005 to 2007/2008 while engineers were at Google. Activities, notifications, resources, Dalvik, content providers, the view hierarchy, and on, and on, that was all done by engineers while working at Google. (I should also say that Google's management was also strongly involved with Android and helped make the project successful. For example, we had quarterly updates where had to show them real progress in the software. This was extremely valuable from the start to focus development priorities on what was needed to ship the software. Did I mention Google is a pretty awesome company? It is. I doubt Android could have happened anywhere else.) Anyway, let's consider discussions about who is being rude or whatever done and get back to more interesting technical stuff. :) On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 9:36 AM, Indicator Veritatis mej1...@yahoo.comwrote: As I read your reply, I somehow remember the saying of Ben Franklin from his Wit and Wisdom, Quarrels would be neither bitter nor long, if on one side -only-, lay the wrong. This is because, yes, Shane did not need to be rude. But even after having defended Dianne's answer in another post, I now feel the need to point out how her answer was not an example of sterling politeness, either. Even though she was 100% correct to warn against hard coding package names. In your own words, none of the backlash would have happened if Dianne has not been, true to style, so extremely curt, writing just like so many highly accomplished technical people who get everything technically correct, but everything that is not technical not correct: ( One should expect a backlash when two out of three sentences read like an impatient mother scolding a child, starting out with such an abrupt imperative, Don't. Nor is it often considered helpful to say Don't do A without proposing an -alternative- to A. Speaking of alternatives, it surprises me no one has noticed yet: Dianne's prohibition was not on using package names, but on using HARD-CODED package names. Why has no one mentioned alternatives? Put the package name in a configuration file somewhere, or (even more extreme, in my opinion), pull it down from a server, so that it can be changed when the package name changes, without having to download a new APK. Surely Shane can get the client to accept that. On Feb 28, 3:03 pm, Justin Anderson magouyaw...@gmail.com wrote: None of that matters... It's just a simple matter of etiquette. When asking for help you don't have to be rude if you don't like the answer. And if you feel it doesn't apply then great... don't apply it! The OP could just as easily have said Thanks for the advice Dianne, but in my case this doesn't apply because of X, Y, and Z. and then none of the backlash would have happened No reason whatsoever to cop an attitude... On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 3:54 PM, rich friedel rich.frie...@gmail.com wrote: You're right. Mr. Edo didn't finish, so let me... ...wouldn't be the super awesome mobile
[android-developers] Re: Market package name on Xoom?
You only have to say it once -- if you get it right. This you have yet to do. 'Environment' has too many different meanings, all of which make sense in this context, few, if any justify your assertions, none your impatience. On Mar 1, 9:25 am, Shane Isbell shane.isb...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 9:15 AM, Indicator Veritatis mej1...@yahoo.comwrote: The way you reach your conclusion from your premises is so illogical, you are casting doubt on your own ability to think logically enough to be a competent programmer. The real reason Dianne has quite a following is because she really does know Android extremely well, having been at the center of everything Android since very near its beginning. And she has dispensed a great deal of valuable Android knowledge in this forum over the years, too, even if some of her responses were so brief they read like Delphic utterances:( And not surprisingly, Dianne is 100% correct on this one: hard coding package names is bound to break the code, whether now or in the future. If it really is, as you say, a hard requirement then you are going to have to resign yourself to having broken code. You have been warned, don't shoot the messenger. Go back to your client and explain the consequences of this hard requirement. You just might find it is not such a hard requirement after all. I don't know how many times I have to say but the client has complete control of the environment. Why is this so difficult to understand? Shane -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: Market package name on Xoom?
Greg, reading fail. There's a difference between she's only the one who... and she's the only one who... Without Dianne's team, Android wouldn't be. Shane, the advice (from Google team or anyone else) is trying to coach you into a sustainable design. You can write whatever compiles, but the advice is to write something robust and future-proof. Have you tried the original suggestion, clipping the query parameters? I don't know if it would succeed. Uri.parse(market://) On Feb 28, 5:16 pm, Greg Donald gdon...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 4:06 PM, rich friedel rich.frie...@gmail.com wrote: she's only the one who makes this OS happen... I'm pretty sure Linus Torvalds (and 16K kernel hackers) would disagree, not to mention Dan Bornstein, Andy Rubin, etc. -- Greg Donald destiney.com | gregdonald.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Re: Market package name on Xoom?
On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 4:44 PM, Hari Edo hari@gmail.com wrote: Without Dianne's team, Android wouldn't be. Google bought Android, it would indeed be without her. http://www.google.com/search?q=google+buys+android -- Greg Donald destiney.com | gregdonald.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Re: Market package name on Xoom?
You're right. Mr. Edo didn't finish, so let me... ...wouldn't be the super awesome mobile framework that we enjoy and love! On Feb 28, 2011 5:49 PM, Greg Donald gdon...@gmail.com wrote: -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Re: Market package name on Xoom?
None of that matters... It's just a simple matter of etiquette. When asking for help you don't have to be rude if you don't like the answer. And if you feel it doesn't apply then great... don't apply it! The OP could just as easily have said Thanks for the advice Dianne, but in my case this doesn't apply because of X, Y, and Z. and then none of the backlash would have happened No reason whatsoever to cop an attitude... On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 3:54 PM, rich friedel rich.frie...@gmail.comwrote: You're right. Mr. Edo didn't finish, so let me... ...wouldn't be the super awesome mobile framework that we enjoy and love! On Feb 28, 2011 5:49 PM, Greg Donald gdon...@gmail.com wrote: -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Re: Market package name on Xoom?
On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Justin Anderson magouyaw...@gmail.comwrote: None of that matters... It's just a simple matter of etiquette. When asking for help you don't have to be rude if you don't like the answer. And if you feel it doesn't apply then great... don't apply it! The OP could just as easily have said Thanks for the advice Dianne, but in my case this doesn't apply because of X, Y, and Z. and then none of the backlash would have happened No reason whatsoever to cop an attitude... You guys crack me up. I haven't had this type of backlash since the time I said the G1 looked like a brick when it first came out. Shane -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
