[Apertium-stuff] With This One Simple Trick You Can Lengthen Your BiDix by 1000s in Only 15 Minutes a Day

[Flammie Pirinen]

Hi all,

I seen some people talk in IRC about recording (screencasting?) a
typical apertium improvement session, and I wanted to learn how to
record desktop and edit videos for youtube, so I made a video of my
lunch break routines I used to learn German in ~year after moving in
here; I hope it's useful at least I had fun doing it :-D



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Re: [Apertium-stuff] apertium-spa does not compile

[Flammie Pirinen]

2018-03-08, Francis Tyers sanoi:

> El 2018-03-08 09:05, Mikel L. Forcada escribió:

> > Now that we are in GitHub, there is no excuse whatsoever for pushing
> > content that does not compile. One can always locally commit and
> > only push when things nicely compile.
> >   
> 
> Exactly! Or they can work in branches and merge when it compiles.

I strongly recommend enabling travis, even if there's not tests it will
name and shame breaking commits :-)

[0] 

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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Lttoolbox tasks - use HFST instead?

[Flammie Pirinen]

2018-02-17, Jonathan Washington sanoi:

> I don't oppose the idea of adding support for compiling dix-format
> lexicons with HFST and implementing it for existing language modules,
> but we'd still need to process the transducers with lt-proc because
> of the tokenisation bug.¹  If the HFST tokenisation bug were to
> disappear, then what you propose for the long term might make sense.
> In any case, it couldn't hurt to add .dix support in hfst-comp as a
> GSoC project idea—that'd be a good step in the right direction.

Well, there's a hfst-dix-compiler prototype I demoed in
LREC somewhere some year, if this is pitched up as a GSOC project it
must contain a plan for repo rollout to be successful imho. The dix
compiler should be at most a coding challenge.

> Maybe if someone ends up working on this and has extra time, they
> could investigate the tokenisation bug as well.
> 
> ¹ https://sourceforge.net/p/hfst/bugs/59/ seems to suggest that this
> was fixed, and I'm unable to reproduce it at the moment.  I remember
> something about undesired side-effects of the implementation, but I
> don't remember now what those were.

The two things are, there are likely some more corner cases where
hfst-ape-proc just eats random parts of strings wrongly, and the
code-base is a bit unmaintainable. I use that for fin-x though since
apertium-fin used to be uncompilable for lt-proc format, the bugs are
reasonably minor not to be problematic for my personal experimentation.

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Re: [Apertium-stuff] GSOC application period open

[Flammie Pirinen]

2018-01-11, Francis Tyers sanoi:

> Deadline is 23rd January.
> 
> We need to update the ideas page.[1] Also we need volunteer mentors.
> 
> If you'd like to volunteer as a mentor, please contact one of the 
> admins.

I didn't have time to do anything this year but did you get
ideas sorted out / application submitted?

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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Using in bidix

[Flammie Pirinen]

2017-10-30, Francis Tyers sanoi:

> El 2017-10-30 00:31, Flammie Pirinen escribió:

> >  > c="eng-feil" r="RL">sama > n="ess"/>päivä > n="ess"/>onthesameday 

> 
> It depends on if you're using pretransfer or not. But I'd suspect
> that the default behaviour is not what you might predict.

It's just something I tried out and got results and never touched again
so I thought it just works:

$ apertium -d  . eng-fin 
I saw you on the same day
sahaan sinä samanapäivänä

no?

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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Using in bidix

[Flammie Pirinen]

2017-10-29, Xavi Ivars sanoi:


> Is it possible to use  in bidixes?
> 
> [...]
> 
> Anyone has ever used it?

I've been using it apertium-fin-{eng,deu} a bit, it seems to work for
my cases so I'm not sure what the rest of the thread is a bout?

Here's an excerpt from apertium-fin-eng.fin-eng.dix, that I have seen
working at least one point in time:

$ fgrep '

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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Genitives in apertium-eng

[Flammie Pirinen]

2017-07-18, Francis Tyers sanoi:

> El 2017-07-18 14:44, Marc Riera Irigoyen escribió:
> > Hello! I'm working on apertium-eng-cat and I've been having some
> > issues with genitives. Currently, many noun paradigms in
> > apertium-eng (mostly irregular nouns) have a  form with the
> > genitive. Not all nouns have it, so apertium-eng also includes a
> > specific lemma for the regular genitive ('s) to add the  tag
> > in the analysis.
> > 
> > However, when using apertium-eng for generation, it is impossible to
> > know in advance whether or not a lemma has the genitive form, so
> > generation for lemmas without the  form is broken.
> > 
> > I'm considering adding a  form to all the affected paradigms to
> > fix this issue. Any objections?  
> 
> Are there other pairs relying on apertium-eng ? Would this break
> them ?


I’ve genitives and apertium-eng set up for e.g. fin-eng, but I’m ok with
whichever solution, if you can post a bidix formula for that once
you’ve updated the eng.

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Re: [Apertium-stuff] separable words module -- call for requests

[Flammie Pirinen]

2017-07-10, Benedikt Freisen sanoi:

> Well, for German we would need something that correctly handles the
> following:
[...]
> Please note that it is
>   "Sie reisen ab." (= "They depart.")
> but
>   ", wenn sie abreisen." (= ", when they depart.")

I’ve sent a German test set[1] based on my experiences with
apertium-fin-deu, but it would be a good thing if a native speaker
could search and annotate a corpus of real-world examples. It should be
noted though that the case like abocve, where there are no intervening
words between the prefix and the verb is already handled fine.

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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Help with Linter Project (Apertium, GSoC)

[Flammie Pirinen]

2016-06-07, Kevin Brubeck Unhammer sanoi:

> Flammie Pirinen <flam...@iki.fi> čálii:
> 
> > I already early on added my pet peeve in very general
> > formulation on wikipage about references to non-existent
> > multichars/sdefs/etc.s that are easy to check across the files but
> > not necessarily always within one file (i.e. that noun is always
> >  in dix, t1x, rlx, etc. usw.).  
> 
> Can you give a concrete example? I think I understand in general, but
> I have no idea how you'd actually check something like that,
> considering the differing formats and how CG thinks of things as
> unordered sets (that can be chopped and mixed around) while transfer
> uses sets of orderered lists while dix just looks at one ordered
> entry at a time …

I haven't worked out thorough example, but I see it as a short
engineering exercise that can be built bottom-up: first come up with
way of gathering definitions inside one file and check for consistency
inside a file, xmllint does so for most apertium formats, cg has strict
options but the xerox legacy formats have nothing and only conventions.

Then, can one use set operations over multichar symbol sets between
files, this will usually reveal that "%<n%>" in apertium-foo.foo.lexc
does not match to anything in apertium-foo-bar.foo-bar.dix...  > Today I’ve been debugging / developing my fin-deu and saw another
> > thing and thought this would be easy for computer to solve but a
> > fiddly time for me: matching entries in bidix to what actually is
> > in monolingual dixes, we already have this chopping feature that
> > removes half of the dictionaries that don't match each other, it
> > would be a a good thing to have a feature to say: "foo" from
> > fin-deu.dix dosen't exit in fin.hfst, did you mean "foo"? or
> > "schmerzelina" cannot be found in deu.automorfi.bin, did you
> > mean "schmerzelina"? That would be very nice thing to  have
> > too   
> 
> I would very much like that too! But I guess to make it fast (without
> being too heuristic) you'd have to do prefix-lookup in the (untrimmed)
> FST? 

Or edit distance lookup, like with hfst-ospell on wrong side (more
details in [1] ;-)

[1] http://urn.fi/URN:ISBN:978-952-10-9695-2

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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Help with Linter Project (Apertium, GSoC)

[Flammie Pirinen]

2016-05-20, Tino Didriksen sanoi:

> We need feedback on what a linter should warn you about. Things that
> will compile and pass current sanity checks, but really shouldn't
> have. So hard errors that break the build aren't interesting - we're
> looking for soft errors that only become apparent when it doesn't
> work the way you expected. Things like:

I don’t know if you’ve developed this further and gathered enough
feedback, I already early on added my pet peeve in very general
formulation on wikipage about references to non-existent
multichars/sdefs/etc.s that are easy to check across the files but not
necessarily always within one file (i.e. that noun is always  in
dix, t1x, rlx, etc. usw.).

Today I’ve been debugging / developing my fin-deu and saw another thing
and thought this would be easy for computer to solve but a fiddly time
for me: matching entries in bidix to what actually is in monolingual
dixes, we already have this chopping feature that removes half of the
dictionaries that don't match each other, it would be a a good thing to
have a feature to say: "foo" from fin-deu.dix dosen't exit in
fin.hfst, did you mean "foo"? or "schmerzelina" cannot be
found in deu.automorfi.bin, did you mean "schmerzelina"? That
would be very nice thing to  have too 


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Re: [Apertium-stuff] GSoC '16 Ideas seriously need attention

[Flammie Pirinen]

2016-03-05, Flammie Pirinen sanoi:

> 2016-03-04, Tino Didriksen sanoi:
> 
> > Students are already looking at them and starting to do the coding
> > challenges, but they're not all still relevant, or now need to be
> > done in a radically different way because we've improved a lot of
> > things over the last 1.5 years.
> > 
> > So please read through the ideas and the attached Read More page and
> > fix what you find.  
> 
> Excellent idea Tino. Looking at the things I know the best, maybe we
> want to re-organise these:
> 
> * Extend lttoolbox to have the power of HFST
> * Flag diacritics in lttoolbox
> * (Weighted transfer rules)
> * Weights in lttoolbox
> 
> It's all basically the same large concept that fits under the first
> heading. I'm thinking the some of the challenges like ATT format
> handler have been in apertium already for a while. If you agree I
> could try combining them over the weekend or at least in part.

I've moved the three under first heading and left the transfer rules
alone, and deleted the two topics, I did not move the mentors from
other tasks into the new one so you can decide if you want to follow
this one, if someone has time to clean the page to be more
understandable for someone outside the HFST stuff it would be a good
thing.
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] GSoC '16 Ideas seriously need attention

[Flammie Pirinen]

2016-03-04, Tino Didriksen sanoi:

> Students are already looking at them and starting to do the coding
> challenges, but they're not all still relevant, or now need to be
> done in a radically different way because we've improved a lot of
> things over the last 1.5 years.
> 
> So please read through the ideas and the attached Read More page and
> fix what you find.

Excellent idea Tino. Looking at the things I know the best, maybe we
want to re-organise these:

* Extend lttoolbox to have the power of HFST
* Flag diacritics in lttoolbox
* (Weighted transfer rules)
* Weights in lttoolbox

It's all basically the same large concept that fits under the first
heading. I'm thinking the some of the challenges like ATT format
handler have been in apertium already for a while. If you agree I could
try combining them over the weekend or at least in part.

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Re: [Apertium-stuff] lttoolbox 3.3.2

[Flammie Pirinen]

2016-01-02, Kevin Brubeck Unhammer sanoi:

> There's a minor point release to lttoolbox, available from
> 
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/apertium/files/lttoolbox/3.3/ (3.3.2)

Thanks for the update, for my workflow, ebuilding the upstream-approved
tarballs are very much appreciated over guessing and picking random VCS
revisions.

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Re: [Apertium-stuff] moved apertium-fin* to github (was: Re: SF SVN up, but missing data)

[Flammie Pirinen]

2015-07-28, Sushain Cherivirala sanoi:

 As discussed in the past, a read only mirror of the Github repo could
 be placed in the SVN repo.
 
 A script running on Tino's server can listen on Github's webhooks,
 and when a commit is detected, unlock, git pull, svn commit and
 finally lock the relevant SVN folder.

That was what I was thinking as well, if we can get that it would
probably good for most use cases and users.

 On Tue, Jul 28, 2015, 12:26 PM Francis Tyers
 fty...@prompsit.com wrote:
 
  A 2015-07-28 22:15, Flammie Pirinen escrigué:
   FWIW, I've taken the opportunity to finally migrate
   apertium-fin[1] and apertium-fin-eng[2] to github, I expect to
   move rest of fin-* as I touch
   them the next time. As those who follow IRC may know, this is not
   only a response to the downtime but also continued
   controversies[3] involving
   sourceforge, which I do not really want to associate any of my
   projects and name with, and constant slowness, bugginess and
   unresponsiveness of their SVN and other systems.
  
 
  Sounds reasonable, probably a good idea to remove them from the SVN
  after
  you migrate them.

well, strictly speaking that'd possibly require ack from all
contributors, or it'd be nice. I’m ok with sushain’s idea or leaving
some kind of link or redirect at least.

  But leave the ones you haven't worked on, e.g.
  fin-est,
  fin-sme, fin-udm, fin-myv, eus-fin, etc.

Can do, it wouldn't be the ones I'd have skills to touch in near future
anyways :-)

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[Apertium-stuff] moved apertium-fin* to github (was: Re: SF SVN up, but missing data)

[Flammie Pirinen]

FWIW, I've taken the opportunity to finally migrate apertium-fin[1] and
apertium-fin-eng[2] to github, I expect to move rest of fin-* as I touch
them the next time. As those who follow IRC may know, this is not only
a response to the downtime but also continued controversies[3] involving
sourceforge, which I do not really want to associate any of my projects
and name with, and constant slowness, bugginess and unresponsiveness of
their SVN and other systems.

[1] https://github.com/flammie/apertium-fin
[2] https://github.com/flammie/apertium-fin-eng
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SourceForge#Controversies
https://blog.l0cal.com/2015/06/02/what-happened-to-sourceforge/
...
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] CG3 in Android

[Flammie Pirinen]

2015-06-08, Jacob Nordfalk sanoi:

 So, here's an idea: If the CG binaries aren't present we could ignore
 those stages, and issue a warning.
 
 I don't know if the same applies to HFST.

Is there something wrong with sf.net.hfst.* java stuff? I experimented
with it a bit with omorfi's java interface and trying to build dummy
android app and it seemed to compile and stuff. No need for fiddly
binaries really.

It will become more necessary with future versions of hfst lexicon
compilers creating automagic flag diacritics unless you ask them not
to.
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] High Frequency Missing Words

[Flammie Pirinen]

2015-03-04, Tino Didriksen sanoi:


 There's a lot of source/target language confusion and people using the
 entirely wrong language pair, which means we have a problem and need
 to fix the apertium.org interface so people don't make that mistake.
 Or make it detect languages better and override people's choice when
 they're clearly wrong.

I’m not sure it’s an actual problem in UI, I do it all the time that I
try out bunch of things back and forth and since these new fangly
widgets nowadays process what I copy-paste without me clicking any
buttons it happens all the time that I copy-paste stuff first and
change languages then and it has already translated things in obviously
wrong pairs. (Yes I am aware of the check-box but it's not that big of
an issue for me as a user to have wrong translations on the fly that
I’d bother...)

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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Google Summer of Code 2015: Application not accepted

[Flammie Pirinen]

2015-03-02, Xavi Ivars sanoi:

 Fran, is there any information Apertium can get as a project about
 why it wasn't accepted?

Past years there's been an IRC session for failed orgs you can go and
have couple of minutes to ask  questions but I don't see that on the
web site now. 
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Doubt in the nursery language pair eng-hin

[Flammie Pirinen]

2015-01-05, Nurendra Choudhary sanoi:

 I was going through the eng-hin language for adding words. According
 to the manual[1], there have to three dictionaries
 *apertium-eng-hin.en.dix * *apertium-eng-hin.hin.dix*
 * apertium-eng-hin.eng-hin.dix. *
 But in the svn repository, I found only two *.eng.dix, eng-hin.dix*.
 There was another one *.post-eng.dix*.
 So, I want to know whether the *.hin.dix* has not yet been developed
 or is it just another type of implementation.

Monolingual dictionaries for most new languages are in separate
directories, in this case,
https://sourceforge.net/p/apertium/svn/HEAD/tree/languages/apertium-hin/

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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Release 3.3 pretty please

[Flammie Pirinen]

2014-08-20, Francis Tyers sanoi:

 Shiny new apertium and lttoolbox packages available from SourceForge:
 
https://sourceforge.net/projects/apertium/files/lttoolbox/3.3/
https://sourceforge.net/projects/apertium/files/apertium/3.3/

Thanks. I just briefly tested ebuilds with copypasted versions
from 3.2 and it seems to work. Gentoo still have a stack of patches that
I've mentioned earlier (in IRC maybe), any news on these:

http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/sci-misc/apertium/files/
http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/sci-misc/lttoolbox/files/
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=440632
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=282425

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[Apertium-stuff] HFST-3.0 release

[Flammie Pirinen]

The HFST's new major version has been released as stable package now.
New features include foma integration, dynamic linking to external
backend libraries, xfst scripting language support (via foma) and more.
Downloads are available in http://sf.net/projects/hfst/. Bugs and
regressions can be reported to sourceforge's bug tracking system, via
email to hfst-b...@helsinki.fi, or at HFST's IRC channel #hfst on
Freenode networks. 

-- 
Flammie, computer scientist bachelor, linguist master, free software
Finnish localiser, and more! http://www.iki.fi/flammie/

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