[arr] Re: Jagjit Singh - What does Rahman know about ghazals - My thoughts

[Nagaraj]

I meant same computer..not composer..typo

--- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, "Nagaraj"  
wrote:
>
> Funny thing is the acclaimed composer's son is also using the same 
> composer but not with the same success ..lol
> 
> 
> --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, "jayaram81"  
> wrote:
> >
> > There is a post by Anil Nair with the video link. Please watch 
> > that.
> > 
> > I am reminded of a "highly respected" Tamil movie composer, whom 
I 
> > don't wish to name, said this on Doordarshan about Rahman in 
> > 1993 "Let me see how long he lasts. He cannot compose Tamil folk 
> > numbers with a computer." He might have been the authority at 
that 
> > time, but not after that. Such statements always precede one's 
> > downfall and yes, he had one, never to recover. Jagjit's comments 
> > are similar. They mean only one thing - Arrogance (My opinion)
> > 
> > Rahman has nothing to prove. His fan base is extremely diverse. 
> > The funny thing about that is that he has dealt with a much wider 
> > range of genres than any other composer and yet his fans want 
> > their tastes rewarded more. 
> > 
> > If you have an opinion, you are entitled to it, but declaring 
such 
> > things publicly and challenging somebody, leaves nothing but a 
bad 
> > taste. Jagjit Singh lost my respect for that (even though he 
might 
> > not need mine) like the other composer did. 
> > 
> > I am not going to give any more credence to Jagjit, his comments 
> > or anybody trying to defend his statements which he said in the 
> > interview by continuing this disscussion anymore.
> > 
> > Rgds.
> > 
> > ---
> > DISCLAIMER: My doctor diagnosed me with an Obsessive Compulsive 
> > Listening Disorder for Rahman's music. Fortunately, it is 
> > contagious with no cure! :)
> > 
> > 
> > --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, Aakarsh  
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Ok, first things first.
> > >  
> > > 1. I am not completely convinced that those words were indeed 
> > spoken by Jagjit Singh, who, (I have seen one of his TV 
> > interviews) admires ARR. And to tell you more, He listens to 
> > Michael Jackson also (he admitted, when interviewer asked about 
> > western music). 
> > > 2. I am not defending Jagjit Singh, but offering a point of 
view.
> > >  
> > > Coming to your 3 bullet-points: Here, I am assuming that he did 
> > say these statements and hence here are my takes:
> > >  
> > > 1. How much does ARR know? -  I dont know how much ARR knows 
> > about Ghazals, but all i said was that he Got to compose very few 
> > (if i exclude Tehzeeb, then there are none) Ghazals. 
> > > 2. He will never use Ghazals in his films - Agreed a director 
> > has higher say on the music for a certain situation. Still, in a 
> > career spanning 16 years and 100 films, ARR has given only 3 
> > Ghazals (as far as i know. i would be glad if someone can cite me 
> > few more examples.). On an average (say 4 songs per film), out of 
> > 400 songs he has composed, there are 3 ghazals. Yes, there are 
> > more soulful, slowpaced numbers, classical numbers, and more fast-
> > paced numbers and wide array of genres for sure, but not many 
> > ghazals.
> > > 3. All They do is pick up tunes from west - Tell me, today, 
when 
> > ARR is at the centre of Indian Film Music, with Golden Globe and 
> > Oscar euphoria and almost every album being rated as a milestone, 
> > with songs catering to every taste (rock, classical, vintage 
> > melodies, western, folk etc), will Any person really call ARR as 
> > Plagiarist? I really doubt so. If Jagjit Singh really said so, I 
> > oppose and condemn. If he didnt, then it is the handiwork of the 
> > author of the article.
> > >  
> > > As for the rest, I stick to my statements. Some of the members 
> > have rightly cited some of the names here. Farida Khannum, Ghulam 
> > Ali, Iqbal Bano, Mehdi Hassan, Begum Akhtar, Talat Mahmood, 
> > NoorJehan, Nayra Noor the list is endless. For that matter, 
> > ARR's and our own favourite - Hariharan is an established Ghazal 
> > singer in his own right. And Madan Mohan is unbeatable (something 
> > which even ARR himself will agree, i am sure)
> > > Please listen to the ghazals by some of these singers to 
> > understand the genre, the musical treatment given to the lyrics, 
> > the rendition and the form.
> > > It is indeed a fact that we dont have Ghazals 

[arr] Re: Jagjit Singh - What does Rahman know about ghazals - My thoughts

[Nagaraj]

Funny thing is the acclaimed composer's son is also using the same 
composer but not with the same success ..lol


--- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, "jayaram81"  
wrote:
>
> There is a post by Anil Nair with the video link. Please watch 
> that.
> 
> I am reminded of a "highly respected" Tamil movie composer, whom I 
> don't wish to name, said this on Doordarshan about Rahman in 
> 1993 "Let me see how long he lasts. He cannot compose Tamil folk 
> numbers with a computer." He might have been the authority at that 
> time, but not after that. Such statements always precede one's 
> downfall and yes, he had one, never to recover. Jagjit's comments 
> are similar. They mean only one thing - Arrogance (My opinion)
> 
> Rahman has nothing to prove. His fan base is extremely diverse. 
> The funny thing about that is that he has dealt with a much wider 
> range of genres than any other composer and yet his fans want 
> their tastes rewarded more. 
> 
> If you have an opinion, you are entitled to it, but declaring such 
> things publicly and challenging somebody, leaves nothing but a bad 
> taste. Jagjit Singh lost my respect for that (even though he might 
> not need mine) like the other composer did. 
> 
> I am not going to give any more credence to Jagjit, his comments 
> or anybody trying to defend his statements which he said in the 
> interview by continuing this disscussion anymore.
> 
> Rgds.
> 
> ---
> DISCLAIMER: My doctor diagnosed me with an Obsessive Compulsive 
> Listening Disorder for Rahman's music. Fortunately, it is 
> contagious with no cure! :)
> 
> 
> --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, Aakarsh  
> wrote:
> >
> > Ok, first things first.
> >  
> > 1. I am not completely convinced that those words were indeed 
> spoken by Jagjit Singh, who, (I have seen one of his TV 
> interviews) admires ARR. And to tell you more, He listens to 
> Michael Jackson also (he admitted, when interviewer asked about 
> western music). 
> > 2. I am not defending Jagjit Singh, but offering a point of view.
> >  
> > Coming to your 3 bullet-points: Here, I am assuming that he did 
> say these statements and hence here are my takes:
> >  
> > 1. How much does ARR know? -  I dont know how much ARR knows 
> about Ghazals, but all i said was that he Got to compose very few 
> (if i exclude Tehzeeb, then there are none) Ghazals. 
> > 2. He will never use Ghazals in his films - Agreed a director 
> has higher say on the music for a certain situation. Still, in a 
> career spanning 16 years and 100 films, ARR has given only 3 
> Ghazals (as far as i know. i would be glad if someone can cite me 
> few more examples.). On an average (say 4 songs per film), out of 
> 400 songs he has composed, there are 3 ghazals. Yes, there are 
> more soulful, slowpaced numbers, classical numbers, and more fast-
> paced numbers and wide array of genres for sure, but not many 
> ghazals.
> > 3. All They do is pick up tunes from west - Tell me, today, when 
> ARR is at the centre of Indian Film Music, with Golden Globe and 
> Oscar euphoria and almost every album being rated as a milestone, 
> with songs catering to every taste (rock, classical, vintage 
> melodies, western, folk etc), will Any person really call ARR as 
> Plagiarist? I really doubt so. If Jagjit Singh really said so, I 
> oppose and condemn. If he didnt, then it is the handiwork of the 
> author of the article.
> >  
> > As for the rest, I stick to my statements. Some of the members 
> have rightly cited some of the names here. Farida Khannum, Ghulam 
> Ali, Iqbal Bano, Mehdi Hassan, Begum Akhtar, Talat Mahmood, 
> NoorJehan, Nayra Noor the list is endless. For that matter, 
> ARR's and our own favourite - Hariharan is an established Ghazal 
> singer in his own right. And Madan Mohan is unbeatable (something 
> which even ARR himself will agree, i am sure)
> > Please listen to the ghazals by some of these singers to 
> understand the genre, the musical treatment given to the lyrics, 
> the rendition and the form.
> > It is indeed a fact that we dont have Ghazals anymore in film 
> songs (irrespective of who the composer is), which is why we have 
> Ghazals in separate albums, by the likes of above names and even 
> Jagjit Singh and Chitra Singh.
> >  
> > Wish ARR covers this genre too.
> > 
> > 
> > Regards
> > Kamal Aakarsh Vishnubhotla.
> >  
> > http://kamal-aakarsh.blogspot.com 
> >  
> > 
> > --- On Wed, 1/28/09, jayaram81  wrote:
> > 
> > From: jayaram81 
> > Subject: [arr] Re: Jagjit Singh - What does Rahman know about 

[arr] Re: Jagjit Singh - What does Rahman know about ghazals - My thoughts

[Varun Nair]

As I read this... there is a dialogue from guru which i remember... " Jab
log tumhare baare mein bolne lage... tab samjho.. tarrakki kar rahe ho! "
... it means when people start speaking about you... understand that you are
succeeding in life!

Re: [arr] Re: Jagjit Singh - What does Rahman know about ghazals - My thoughts

[Aakarsh]

Hi! Jayaram
 
I agree. Initially i thought that it was the media rubbing it, but having seen 
the video, i do agree that his statements were in very bad taste. You summed it 
up right, that people might have opinions, but then the way they put those 
opinions across also matters.
 
I have already said it in a mail, that i only wish ARR does some stupendous 
work to silence these detractors.


Regards
Kamal Aakarsh Vishnubhotla.
 
http://kamal-aakarsh.blogspot.com 
 

--- On Thu, 1/29/09, jayaram81  wrote:

From: jayaram81 
Subject: [arr] Re: Jagjit Singh - What does Rahman know about ghazals - My 
thoughts
To: arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, January 29, 2009, 5:40 PM






There is a post by Anil Nair with the video link. Please watch 
that.

I am reminded of a "highly respected" Tamil movie composer, whom I 
don't wish to name, said this on Doordarshan about Rahman in 
1993 "Let me see how long he lasts. He cannot compose Tamil folk 
numbers with a computer." He might have been the authority at that 
time, but not after that. Such statements always precede one's 
downfall and yes, he had one, never to recover. Jagjit's comments 
are similar. They mean only one thing - Arrogance (My opinion)

Rahman has nothing to prove. His fan base is extremely diverse. 
The funny thing about that is that he has dealt with a much wider 
range of genres than any other composer and yet his fans want 
their tastes rewarded more. 

If you have an opinion, you are entitled to it, but declaring such 
things publicly and challenging somebody, leaves nothing but a bad 
taste. Jagjit Singh lost my respect for that (even though he might 
not need mine) like the other composer did. 

I am not going to give any more credence to Jagjit, his comments 
or anybody trying to defend his statements which he said in the 
interview by continuing this disscussion anymore.

Rgds.

---
DISCLAIMER: My doctor diagnosed me with an Obsessive Compulsive 
Listening Disorder for Rahman's music. Fortunately, it is 
contagious with no cure! :)

--- In arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com, Aakarsh  
wrote:
>
> Ok, first things first.
>  
> 1. I am not completely convinced that those words were indeed 
spoken by Jagjit Singh, who, (I have seen one of his TV 
interviews) admires ARR. And to tell you more, He listens to 
Michael Jackson also (he admitted, when interviewer asked about 
western music). 
> 2. I am not defending Jagjit Singh, but offering a point of view.
>  
> Coming to your 3 bullet-points: Here, I am assuming that he did 
say these statements and hence here are my takes:
>  
> 1. How much does ARR know? -  I dont know how much ARR knows 
about Ghazals, but all i said was that he Got to compose very few 
(if i exclude Tehzeeb, then there are none) Ghazals. 
> 2. He will never use Ghazals in his films - Agreed a director 
has higher say on the music for a certain situation. Still, in a 
career spanning 16 years and 100 films, ARR has given only 3 
Ghazals (as far as i know. i would be glad if someone can cite me 
few more examples.). On an average (say 4 songs per film), out of 
400 songs he has composed, there are 3 ghazals. Yes, there are 
more soulful, slowpaced numbers, classical numbers,  and more fast-
paced numbers and wide array of genres for sure, but not many 
ghazals.
> 3. All They do is pick up tunes from west - Tell me, today, when 
ARR is at the centre of Indian Film Music, with Golden Globe and 
Oscar euphoria and almost every album being rated as a milestone, 
with songs catering to every taste (rock, classical, vintage 
melodies, western, folk etc), will Any person really call ARR as 
Plagiarist? I really doubt so. If Jagjit Singh really said so, I 
oppose and condemn. If he didnt, then it is the handiwork of the 
author of the article.
>  
> As for the rest, I stick to my statements. Some of the members 
have rightly cited some of the names here. Farida Khannum, Ghulam 
Ali, Iqbal Bano, Mehdi Hassan, Begum Akhtar, Talat Mahmood, 
NoorJehan, Nayra Noor the list is endless. For that matter, 
ARR's and our own favourite - Hariharan is an established Ghazal 
singer in his own right. And Madan Mohan is unbeatable (something 
which even ARR himself will agree, i am sure)
> Please listen to the ghazals by some of these singers to 
understand the genre, the musical treatment given to the lyrics, 
the rendition and the form.
> It is indeed a fact that we dont have Ghazals anymore in film 
songs (irrespective of who the composer is), which is why we have 
Ghazals in separate albums, by the likes of above names and even 
Jagjit Singh and Chitra Singh.
>  
> Wish ARR covers this genre too.
> 
> 
> Regards
> Kamal Aakarsh Vishnubhotla.
>  
> http://kamal- aakarsh.blogspot .com 
>  
> 
> --- On Wed, 1/28/09, jayaram81  wrote:
> 
> From: jayaram81 
> Subject: [arr] Re: Jagjit Singh - 

Re: [arr] Re: Jagjit Singh - What does Rahman know about ghazals - My thoughts

[Anantha Dreamer]

Yes, as always ARR choose to reply with his music than with his toungue...
This time the same is to happen...

On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 5:40 PM, jayaram81  wrote:

>   There is a post by Anil Nair with the video link. Please watch
> that.
>
> I am reminded of a "highly respected" Tamil movie composer, whom I
> don't wish to name, said this on Doordarshan about Rahman in
> 1993 "Let me see how long he lasts. He cannot compose Tamil folk
> numbers with a computer." He might have been the authority at that
> time, but not after that. Such statements always precede one's
> downfall and yes, he had one, never to recover. Jagjit's comments
> are similar. They mean only one thing - Arrogance (My opinion)
>
> Rahman has nothing to prove. His fan base is extremely diverse.
> The funny thing about that is that he has dealt with a much wider
> range of genres than any other composer and yet his fans want
> their tastes rewarded more.
>
> If you have an opinion, you are entitled to it, but declaring such
> things publicly and challenging somebody, leaves nothing but a bad
> taste. Jagjit Singh lost my respect for that (even though he might
> not need mine) like the other composer did.
>
> I am not going to give any more credence to Jagjit, his comments
> or anybody trying to defend his statements which he said in the
> interview by continuing this disscussion anymore.
>
> Rgds.
>
> ---
> DISCLAIMER: My doctor diagnosed me with an Obsessive Compulsive
> Listening Disorder for Rahman's music. Fortunately, it is
> contagious with no cure! :)
>
> --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com ,
> Aakarsh 
> wrote:
> >
> > Ok, first things first.
> >
> > 1. I am not completely convinced that those words were indeed
> spoken by Jagjit Singh, who, (I have seen one of his TV
> interviews) admires ARR. And to tell you more, He listens to
> Michael Jackson also (he admitted, when interviewer asked about
> western music).
> > 2. I am not defending Jagjit Singh, but offering a point of view.
> >
> > Coming to your 3 bullet-points: Here, I am assuming that he did
> say these statements and hence here are my takes:
> >
> > 1. How much does ARR know? -  I dont know how much ARR knows
> about Ghazals, but all i said was that he Got to compose very few
> (if i exclude Tehzeeb, then there are none) Ghazals.
> > 2. He will never use Ghazals in his films - Agreed a director
> has higher say on the music for a certain situation. Still, in a
> career spanning 16 years and 100 films, ARR has given only 3
> Ghazals (as far as i know. i would be glad if someone can cite me
> few more examples.). On an average (say 4 songs per film), out of
> 400 songs he has composed, there are 3 ghazals. Yes, there are
> more soulful, slowpaced numbers, classical numbers, and more fast-
> paced numbers and wide array of genres for sure, but not many
> ghazals.
> > 3. All They do is pick up tunes from west - Tell me, today, when
> ARR is at the centre of Indian Film Music, with Golden Globe and
> Oscar euphoria and almost every album being rated as a milestone,
> with songs catering to every taste (rock, classical, vintage
> melodies, western, folk etc), will Any person really call ARR as
> Plagiarist? I really doubt so. If Jagjit Singh really said so, I
> oppose and condemn. If he didnt, then it is the handiwork of the
> author of the article.
> >
> > As for the rest, I stick to my statements. Some of the members
> have rightly cited some of the names here. Farida Khannum, Ghulam
> Ali, Iqbal Bano, Mehdi Hassan, Begum Akhtar, Talat Mahmood,
> NoorJehan, Nayra Noor the list is endless. For that matter,
> ARR's and our own favourite - Hariharan is an established Ghazal
> singer in his own right. And Madan Mohan is unbeatable (something
> which even ARR himself will agree, i am sure)
> > Please listen to the ghazals by some of these singers to
> understand the genre, the musical treatment given to the lyrics,
> the rendition and the form.
> > It is indeed a fact that we dont have Ghazals anymore in film
> songs (irrespective of who the composer is), which is why we have
> Ghazals in separate albums, by the likes of above names and even
> Jagjit Singh and Chitra Singh.
> >
> > Wish ARR covers this genre too.
> >
> >
> > Regards
> > Kamal Aakarsh Vishnubhotla.
> >
> > http://kamal-aakarsh.blogspot.com
> >
> >
> > --- On Wed, 1/28/09, jayaram81  wrote:
> >
> > From: jayaram81 
> > Subject: [arr] Re: Jagjit Singh - What does Rahman know about
> ghazals - My thoughts
> > To: arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com 
> > Date: Wednesday, January 28

[arr] Re: Jagjit Singh - What does Rahman know about ghazals - My thoughts

[jayaram81]

There is a post by Anil Nair with the video link. Please watch 
that.

I am reminded of a "highly respected" Tamil movie composer, whom I 
don't wish to name, said this on Doordarshan about Rahman in 
1993 "Let me see how long he lasts. He cannot compose Tamil folk 
numbers with a computer." He might have been the authority at that 
time, but not after that. Such statements always precede one's 
downfall and yes, he had one, never to recover. Jagjit's comments 
are similar. They mean only one thing - Arrogance (My opinion)

Rahman has nothing to prove. His fan base is extremely diverse. 
The funny thing about that is that he has dealt with a much wider 
range of genres than any other composer and yet his fans want 
their tastes rewarded more. 

If you have an opinion, you are entitled to it, but declaring such 
things publicly and challenging somebody, leaves nothing but a bad 
taste. Jagjit Singh lost my respect for that (even though he might 
not need mine) like the other composer did. 

I am not going to give any more credence to Jagjit, his comments 
or anybody trying to defend his statements which he said in the 
interview by continuing this disscussion anymore.

Rgds.

---
DISCLAIMER: My doctor diagnosed me with an Obsessive Compulsive 
Listening Disorder for Rahman's music. Fortunately, it is 
contagious with no cure! :)


--- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, Aakarsh  
wrote:
>
> Ok, first things first.
>  
> 1. I am not completely convinced that those words were indeed 
spoken by Jagjit Singh, who, (I have seen one of his TV 
interviews) admires ARR. And to tell you more, He listens to 
Michael Jackson also (he admitted, when interviewer asked about 
western music). 
> 2. I am not defending Jagjit Singh, but offering a point of view.
>  
> Coming to your 3 bullet-points: Here, I am assuming that he did 
say these statements and hence here are my takes:
>  
> 1. How much does ARR know? -  I dont know how much ARR knows 
about Ghazals, but all i said was that he Got to compose very few 
(if i exclude Tehzeeb, then there are none) Ghazals. 
> 2. He will never use Ghazals in his films - Agreed a director 
has higher say on the music for a certain situation. Still, in a 
career spanning 16 years and 100 films, ARR has given only 3 
Ghazals (as far as i know. i would be glad if someone can cite me 
few more examples.). On an average (say 4 songs per film), out of 
400 songs he has composed, there are 3 ghazals. Yes, there are 
more soulful, slowpaced numbers, classical numbers, and more fast-
paced numbers and wide array of genres for sure, but not many 
ghazals.
> 3. All They do is pick up tunes from west - Tell me, today, when 
ARR is at the centre of Indian Film Music, with Golden Globe and 
Oscar euphoria and almost every album being rated as a milestone, 
with songs catering to every taste (rock, classical, vintage 
melodies, western, folk etc), will Any person really call ARR as 
Plagiarist? I really doubt so. If Jagjit Singh really said so, I 
oppose and condemn. If he didnt, then it is the handiwork of the 
author of the article.
>  
> As for the rest, I stick to my statements. Some of the members 
have rightly cited some of the names here. Farida Khannum, Ghulam 
Ali, Iqbal Bano, Mehdi Hassan, Begum Akhtar, Talat Mahmood, 
NoorJehan, Nayra Noor the list is endless. For that matter, 
ARR's and our own favourite - Hariharan is an established Ghazal 
singer in his own right. And Madan Mohan is unbeatable (something 
which even ARR himself will agree, i am sure)
> Please listen to the ghazals by some of these singers to 
understand the genre, the musical treatment given to the lyrics, 
the rendition and the form.
> It is indeed a fact that we dont have Ghazals anymore in film 
songs (irrespective of who the composer is), which is why we have 
Ghazals in separate albums, by the likes of above names and even 
Jagjit Singh and Chitra Singh.
>  
> Wish ARR covers this genre too.
> 
> 
> Regards
> Kamal Aakarsh Vishnubhotla.
>  
> http://kamal-aakarsh.blogspot.com 
>  
> 
> --- On Wed, 1/28/09, jayaram81  wrote:
> 
> From: jayaram81 
> Subject: [arr] Re: Jagjit Singh - What does Rahman know about 
ghazals - My thoughts
> To: arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 6:41 PM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously? Are you trying to defend "everything" that he said in 
> that interview?
> 
> 1. What does AR Rahman know about ghazals? 
> 2. He will never use a ghazal in his films. 
> 3. All they do is pick up tunes from the West
> 
> He starts something which is personal here, singling out 
somebody 
> and then try to generalize it in his third sentence. If you take 
> each of the question one by one in the same order it was said, 
the 
> answer would be 
> 
> 1. "Not much as y

[arr] Re: Jagjit Singh - What does Rahman know about ghazals - My thoughts

[rayrai2k]

why not push this topic aside and start a fresh day just like our boss
who takes critics, comments & praise in equal balance and get back to
work. Why AR might not have done ghazal is because he is composing for
movies and if a director wants he can. Also if music is western
remember even others can do music and it shows our shallow depth
thinking only our music is the greatest. 
Both AR & JS are weighted artists. They have achieved in their
respective category. If any day we meet JS lets sought for an
explanation and till then lets take it as much as positiveness it has.
 Just like how Tendulkar answers his critic by scoring AR also has
done it over the time and he will again. How can he bat a ghazal as
long as his directors deny? and probably that's one among the reason
he worked in Tehzeeb where he thought he got a slight opportunity for
ghazals and he did a great job. Whom to blame if the movie was yet
another sleeping pill. 


--- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, partha sarathi
 wrote:
>
> Hi All,
> 
> I have been going through all the comments made by fellow fans of
ARRji and others who were trying to defend Jagjit Singh's comments on
what ARR knows about ghazals. Fans and friends one thing you have to
understand is out of how many compositions of jagjit singh are out of
ghazals I would strongly say none. He is only good at that kind of
music and he mastered it and he at that cadre really can't make
statements which could hurt ARR's fans (If he really had made though). 
> 
> One other thing that I don't understand is why can't somebody learn
things from the GOD ARR. Why can't somebody just mind their business.
Have anyone heard ARR atleast commenting on any other music director.
He is so humble just minds his business and this is something one has
to learn. A person like Jagjit singh making such statements only helps
him in receiving disrespect from ARR's fans who might have once been
his fan like me.
> 
> ARR is an inspiration for many and GOD for few like me. I strongly
believe that everybody on this earth has their own stand in the field
they are and ARR is at his best in the world of music.
> 
> JAI HO ARR
> 
> Thanks everybody for listening to me,
> 
> Regards
> Parth.
> GOD for few, 
> --- On Wed, 28/1/09, Aakarsh  wrote:
> From: Aakarsh 
> Subject: Re: [arr] Re: Jagjit Singh - What does Rahman know about
ghazals - My thoughts
> To: arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, 28 January, 2009, 7:14 PM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, first things first.
>  
> 1. I am not completely convinced that those words were indeed spoken
by Jagjit Singh, who, (I have seen one of his TV interviews) admires
ARR. And to tell you more, He listens to Michael Jackson also (he
admitted, when interviewer asked about western music). 
> 2. I am not defending Jagjit Singh, but offering a point of view.
>  
> Coming to your 3 bullet-points: Here, I am assuming that he did say
these statements and hence here are my takes:
>  
> 1. How much does ARR know? -  I dont know how much ARR knows about
Ghazals, but all i said was that he Got to compose very few (if i
exclude Tehzeeb, then there are none) Ghazals. 
> 2. He will never use Ghazals in his films - Agreed a director has
higher say on the music for a certain situation. Still, in a career
spanning 16 years and 100 films, ARR has given only 3 Ghazals (as far
as i know. i would be glad if someone can cite me few more examples.).
On an average (say 4 songs per film), out of 400 songs he has
composed, there are 3 ghazals. Yes, there are more soulful, slowpaced
numbers, classical numbers, and more fast-paced numbers and wide
array of genres for sure, but not many ghazals.
> 3. All They do is pick up tunes from west - Tell me, today, when ARR
is at the centre of Indian Film Music, with Golden Globe and Oscar
euphoria and almost every album being rated as a milestone, with songs
catering to every taste (rock, classical, vintage melodies, western,
folk etc), will Any person really call ARR as Plagiarist? I really
doubt so. If Jagjit Singh really said so, I oppose and condemn. If he
didnt, then it is the handiwork of the author of the article.
>  
> As for the rest, I stick to my statements. Some of the members have
rightly cited some of the names here. Farida Khannum, Ghulam Ali,
Iqbal Bano, Mehdi Hassan, Begum Akhtar, Talat Mahmood, NoorJehan,
Nayra Noor the list is endless. For that matter, ARR's and our own
favourite - Hariharan is an established Ghazal singer in his own
right. And Madan Mohan is unbeatable (something which even ARR himself
will agree, i am sure)
> Please listen to the ghazals by some of these singers to understand
the genre, the musical treatment given to the lyrics, the rendition
and the form.
> It is indeed a fact that 

Re: [arr] Re: Jagjit Singh - What does Rahman know about ghazals - My thoughts

[partha sarathi]

Hi All,

I have been going through all the comments made by fellow fans of ARRji and 
others who were trying to defend Jagjit Singh's comments on what ARR knows 
about ghazals. Fans and friends one thing you have to understand is out of how 
many compositions of jagjit singh are out of ghazals I would strongly say none. 
He is only good at that kind of music and he mastered it and he at that cadre 
really can't make statements which could hurt ARR's fans (If he really had made 
though). 

One other thing that I don't understand is why can't somebody learn things from 
the GOD ARR. Why can't somebody just mind their business. Have anyone heard ARR 
atleast commenting on any other music director. He is so humble just minds his 
business and this is something one has to learn. A person like Jagjit singh 
making such statements only helps him in receiving disrespect from ARR's fans 
who might have once been his fan like me.

ARR is an inspiration for many and GOD for few like me. I strongly believe that 
everybody on this earth has their own stand in the field they are and ARR is at 
his best in the world of music.

JAI HO ARR

Thanks everybody for listening to me,

Regards
Parth.
GOD for few, 
--- On Wed, 28/1/09, Aakarsh  wrote:
From: Aakarsh 
Subject: Re: [arr] Re: Jagjit Singh - What does Rahman know about ghazals - My 
thoughts
To: arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, 28 January, 2009, 7:14 PM











Ok, first things first.
 
1. I am not completely convinced that those words were indeed spoken by Jagjit 
Singh, who, (I have seen one of his TV interviews) admires ARR. And to tell you 
more, He listens to Michael Jackson also (he admitted, when interviewer asked 
about western music). 
2. I am not defending Jagjit Singh, but offering a point of view.
 
Coming to your 3 bullet-points: Here, I am assuming that he did say these 
statements and hence here are my takes:
 
1. How much does ARR know? -  I dont know how much ARR knows about Ghazals, but 
all i said was that he Got to compose very few (if i exclude Tehzeeb, then 
there are none) Ghazals. 
2. He will never use Ghazals in his films - Agreed a director has higher say on 
the music for a certain situation. Still, in a career spanning 16 years and 100 
films, ARR has given only 3 Ghazals (as far as i know. i would be glad if 
someone can cite me few more examples.). On an average (say 4 songs per film), 
out of 400 songs he has composed, there are 3 ghazals. Yes, there are more 
soulful, slowpaced numbers, classical numbers, and more fast-paced numbers and 
wide array of genres for sure, but not many ghazals.
3. All They do is pick up tunes from west - Tell me, today, when ARR is at the 
centre of Indian Film Music, with Golden Globe and Oscar euphoria and almost 
every album being rated as a milestone, with songs catering to every taste 
(rock, classical, vintage melodies, western, folk etc), will Any person really 
call ARR as Plagiarist? I really doubt so. If Jagjit Singh really said so, I 
oppose and condemn. If he didnt, then it is the handiwork of the author of the 
article.
 
As for the rest, I stick to my statements. Some of the members have rightly 
cited some of the names here. Farida Khannum, Ghulam Ali, Iqbal Bano, Mehdi 
Hassan, Begum Akhtar, Talat Mahmood, NoorJehan, Nayra Noor the list is 
endless. For that matter, ARR's and our own favourite - Hariharan is an 
established Ghazal singer in his own right. And Madan Mohan is unbeatable 
(something which even ARR himself will agree, i am sure)
Please listen to the ghazals by some of these singers to understand the genre, 
the musical treatment given to the lyrics, the rendition and the form.
It is indeed a fact that we dont have Ghazals anymore in film songs 
(irrespective of who the composer is), which is why we have Ghazals in separate 
albums, by the likes of above names and even Jagjit Singh and Chitra Singh.
 
Wish ARR covers this genre too.


Regards
Kamal Aakarsh Vishnubhotla.
 
http://kamal- aakarsh.blogspot .com 
 

--- On Wed, 1/28/09, jayaram81  wrote:

From: jayaram81 
Subject: [arr] Re: Jagjit Singh - What does Rahman know about ghazals - My 
thoughts
To: arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 6:41 PM




Seriously? Are you trying to defend "everything" that he said in 
that interview?

1. What does AR Rahman know about ghazals? 
2. He will never use a ghazal in his films. 
3. All they do is pick up tunes from the West

He starts something which is personal here, singling out somebody 
and then try to generalize it in his third sentence. If you take 
each of the question one by one in the same order it was said, the 
answer would be 

1. "Not much as you know, but not nothing"
2. Ya right. If you don't listen to his film songs, you will 
always end up using the word "Never"
3. O the generalization. If only he had mentioned "he&

Re: [arr] Re: Jagjit Singh - What does Rahman know about ghazals - My thoughts

[Aakarsh]

Ok, first things first.
 
1. I am not completely convinced that those words were indeed spoken by Jagjit 
Singh, who, (I have seen one of his TV interviews) admires ARR. And to tell you 
more, He listens to Michael Jackson also (he admitted, when interviewer asked 
about western music). 
2. I am not defending Jagjit Singh, but offering a point of view.
 
Coming to your 3 bullet-points: Here, I am assuming that he did say these 
statements and hence here are my takes:
 
1. How much does ARR know? -  I dont know how much ARR knows about Ghazals, but 
all i said was that he Got to compose very few (if i exclude Tehzeeb, then 
there are none) Ghazals. 
2. He will never use Ghazals in his films - Agreed a director has higher say on 
the music for a certain situation. Still, in a career spanning 16 years and 100 
films, ARR has given only 3 Ghazals (as far as i know. i would be glad if 
someone can cite me few more examples.). On an average (say 4 songs per film), 
out of 400 songs he has composed, there are 3 ghazals. Yes, there are more 
soulful, slowpaced numbers, classical numbers, and more fast-paced numbers and 
wide array of genres for sure, but not many ghazals.
3. All They do is pick up tunes from west - Tell me, today, when ARR is at the 
centre of Indian Film Music, with Golden Globe and Oscar euphoria and almost 
every album being rated as a milestone, with songs catering to every taste 
(rock, classical, vintage melodies, western, folk etc), will Any person really 
call ARR as Plagiarist? I really doubt so. If Jagjit Singh really said so, I 
oppose and condemn. If he didnt, then it is the handiwork of the author of the 
article.
 
As for the rest, I stick to my statements. Some of the members have rightly 
cited some of the names here. Farida Khannum, Ghulam Ali, Iqbal Bano, Mehdi 
Hassan, Begum Akhtar, Talat Mahmood, NoorJehan, Nayra Noor the list is 
endless. For that matter, ARR's and our own favourite - Hariharan is an 
established Ghazal singer in his own right. And Madan Mohan is unbeatable 
(something which even ARR himself will agree, i am sure)
Please listen to the ghazals by some of these singers to understand the genre, 
the musical treatment given to the lyrics, the rendition and the form.
It is indeed a fact that we dont have Ghazals anymore in film songs 
(irrespective of who the composer is), which is why we have Ghazals in separate 
albums, by the likes of above names and even Jagjit Singh and Chitra Singh.
 
Wish ARR covers this genre too.


Regards
Kamal Aakarsh Vishnubhotla.
 
http://kamal-aakarsh.blogspot.com 
 

--- On Wed, 1/28/09, jayaram81  wrote:

From: jayaram81 
Subject: [arr] Re: Jagjit Singh - What does Rahman know about ghazals - My 
thoughts
To: arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 6:41 PM






Seriously? Are you trying to defend "everything" that he said in 
that interview?

1. What does AR Rahman know about ghazals? 
2. He will never use a ghazal in his films. 
3. All they do is pick up tunes from the West

He starts something which is personal here, singling out somebody 
and then try to generalize it in his third sentence. If you take 
each of the question one by one in the same order it was said, the 
answer would be 

1. "Not much as you know, but not nothing"
2. Ya right. If you don't listen to his film songs, you will 
always end up using the word "Never"
3. O the generalization. If only he had mentioned "he" instead 
of "they", I would have gone on a rampage here. I have been 
defending Rahman on this for more than 15 years now. Picking up 
tunes they say.

As somebody said, I smell sour grapes.

Aakarsh,
With all due respects, Jagjit Singh is a great Ghazal artist. But, 
you got to stop putting oxymorons in your sentences. "We dont have 
ghazals anymore and lets accept it, even ARR did not compose 
many." -I read your blog (spent a few 
minutes there) and understand that you love poetry but vehemently 
defending these statements are not the way to go here.

By the way, a director gets to say how many Ghazals are to be 
there in a movie. 

Rgds.

--- In arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com, Aakarsh  
wrote:
>
> With all due respects to both, Jagjit Singh and also ARR, let us 
first note that it is an opinion and not necessarily a case of mud-
slinging.
>  
> And he was referring specifically to 'Ghazals' alone. We must 
note that of Jagjit Singh did not admire ARR, he would not have 
agreed to be part of 'Jan Gan Man' by ARR. 
>  
> So, lets not blow it out of proportion.
>  
> Now, coming to ghazals, if one really listens to Ghazals, say 
the ones that were composed in films, what jagjit Singh said is 
absolutely right. We dont have ghazals anymore and lets accept it, 
even ARR did not compose many. 
>  
> ARR is music-driven composer and many lyricists, including 
Gulzar, agreed that he gets to write lyrics

[arr] Re: Jagjit Singh - What does Rahman know about ghazals - My thoughts

[jayaram81]

Seriously? Are you trying to defend "everything" that he said in
that interview?

1. What does AR Rahman know about ghazals?
2. He will never use a ghazal in his films.
3. All they do is pick up tunes from the West

He starts something which is personal here, singling out somebody
and then try to generalize it in his third sentence. If you take
each of the question one by one in the same order it was said, the
answer would be

1. "Not much as you know, but not nothing"
2. Ya right. If you don't listen to his film songs, you will
always end up using the word "Never"
3. O the generalization. If only he had mentioned "he" instead
of "they", I would have gone on a rampage here. I have been
defending Rahman on this for more than 15 years now. Picking up
tunes they say.

As somebody said, I smell sour grapes.

Aakarsh,
With all due respects, Jagjit Singh is a great Ghazal artist. But,
you got to stop putting oxymorons in your sentences. "We dont have
ghazals anymore and lets accept it, even ARR did not compose
many." -I read your blog (spent a few
minutes there) and understand that you love poetry but vehemently
defending these statements are not the way to go here.

By the way, a director gets to say how many Ghazals are to be
there in a movie.

Rgds.

--- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, Aakarsh 
wrote:
>
> With all due respects to both, Jagjit Singh and also ARR, let us
first note that it is an opinion and not necessarily a case of mud-
slinging.
>  
> And he was referring specifically to 'Ghazals' alone. We must
note that of Jagjit Singh did not admire ARR, he would not have
agreed to be part of 'Jan Gan Man' by ARR.
>  
> So, lets not blow it out of proportion.
>  
> Now, coming to ghazals, if one really listens to Ghazals, say
the ones that were composed in films, what jagjit Singh said is
absolutely right. We dont have ghazals anymore and lets accept it,
even ARR did not compose many.
>  
> ARR is music-driven composer and many lyricists, including
Gulzar, agreed that he gets to write lyrics for the tunes already
set into music. and later they work around it.
>  
>
> In Ghazals, the words are born first and then music is set to
the words.
> Also, the composer has a very indepth acumen about the language,
words, vocabulary, usage etc, while composing Ghazals. More
importantly urdu.
>  
> For both these points, ARR actually does not fit in.  So, he has
a point. I am not saying that ARR is incapable of composing tunes
for lyrics. Neither i am saying that ARR lacks lyrical sense. Just
that he has recently started learning Hindi/urdu and that too out
of the songs he composed. So, it is not that he speaks/converses
in Hindi/urdu to have a grasp/mastery over the language to
understand the nuances and then set music accordingly so that
certain words outshine the music, as the ghazals demand that.
>  
> Jagjit Singh is a seasoned ghazal singer and he has seen the
length and breadth of this field called 'Ghazals', having been one
of the great singers himself. So, from his angle and point of
view, it is natural for him to feel so. Rahman songs have good
lyrics for sure, but they are definitely not comparable to the
ones in Ghazals or the world which Jagjit Singh has seen.
>  
> The only exception is ARR's Tehzeeb, which had 3 wonderful
Ghazals, that reaffirmed my faith in ARR that he can compose good
ghazals too. But tell me, How many people know about Tehzeeb,
because it is not a great audio-hit commercially, for us to see it
in all TV channels. And also, How many Tehzeebs did ARR do after
that? None. I am sure that Jagjit Singh never got to listen to
this album.
>  
> Just that ARR is not getting film-makers who insist on such rich
ghazals. Whatever might be reason, Jagjit has a point though. Lets
look at it objectivistically, instead of just posting negative
comments on Jagjit, without verifying whether he has a valid point
or not.
>
>
> Regards
> Kamal Aakarsh Vishnubhotla.
>  
> http://kamal-aakarsh.blogspot.com
>  
>
> --- On Wed, 1/28/09, gut but  wrote:
>
> From: gut but 
> Subject: Re: [arr] Re: Jagjit Singh - What does Rahman know
about ghazals
> To: arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 11:52 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I think Jagit singh is not happy about the fame and attention
that rahman is getting at the moment !
> we need to understand that rahman is not sticking to particular
kind of music, he goes according to
> the taste of contemporary world and theme of movie.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: jsrwm 
> To: arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Tuesday, 27 January, 2009 23:22:32
> Subject: [arr] Re: Jagjit Singh - What does Rahman know about
ghazals
>
>
>
> Another story of "Oops this is a sour grape" begins..
>
> --- In arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com, Anil Nair
 wrote:
> >
> > Didn't expect Jagjit Singh to say this ...or maybe its just
yet again
> the
> > "media monster" at work
> >
> > -A
> >
> > http://movies. indiainfo. com/2009/ 01/28/0901280633
_gazals.html
> >
> > What does R

Re: [arr] Re: Jagjit Singh - What does Rahman know about ghazals - My thoughts

[V S Rawat]

To add to it, Ghazals started as a written form of urdu/ hindi poetry. 
It was sung in vocals, san any instruments, may be because Islam bars 
music but allows a form of spoken/ sung poems called Naats.

Later on, music got added to ghazals.

So, him saying that ghazals have some particular, specific form of music 
is totally wrong statement. Ghazal is a written form of poetry and has 
nothing to do with music in real sense.

Now, when a poetry is put to music, it is the freedom of the composer 
what kind of music he puts for it. ARR used modern music for ghazals in 
Tahzeeb which sounded "out of place" to my ears used to other type of 
music for ghazals, but still, they were ghazals because there poetry was 
ghazal.

i am still sad that JS chose to trash pappu. It is like decrying what 
kind of desh-bhakti pappu song would inculcate. Well, papu is not a 
ghzal, not a desh-bhakti song.

--
Rawat

On 1/28/2009 1:15 PM India Time, _Aakarsh_ wrote:

> With all due respects to both, Jagjit Singh and also ARR, let us first 
> note that it is an opinion and not necessarily a case of mud-slinging.
>  
> And he was referring specifically to 'Ghazals' alone. We must note that 
> of Jagjit Singh did not admire ARR, he would not have agreed to be part 
> of 'Jan Gan Man' by ARR.
>  
> So, lets not blow it out of proportion.
>  
> Now, coming to ghazals, if one really listens to Ghazals, say the ones 
> that were composed in films, what jagjit Singh said is absolutely right. 
> We dont have ghazals anymore and lets accept it, even ARR did not 
> compose many.
>  
> ARR is music-driven composer and many lyricists, including Gulzar, 
> agreed that he gets to write lyrics for the tunes already set into 
> music. and later they work around it.
>  
> 
> * In Ghazals, the words are born first and then music is set to the
>   words.
> * Also, the composer has a very indepth acumen about the language,
>   words, vocabulary, usage etc, while composing Ghazals. More
>   importantly urdu.
> 
>  
> For both these points, ARR actually does not fit in.  So, he has a 
> point. I am not saying that ARR is incapable of composing tunes for 
> lyrics. Neither i am saying that ARR lacks lyrical sense. Just that he 
> has recently started learning Hindi/urdu and that too out of the songs 
> he composed. So, it is not that he speaks/converses in Hindi/urdu to 
> have a grasp/mastery over the language to understand the nuances and 
> then set music accordingly so that certain words outshine the music, as 
> the ghazals demand that.
>  
> Jagjit Singh is a seasoned ghazal singer and he has seen the length and 
> breadth of this field called 'Ghazals', having been one of the great 
> singers himself. So, from his angle and point of view, it is natural for 
> him to feel so. Rahman songs have good lyrics for sure, but they are 
> definitely not comparable to the ones in Ghazals or the world which 
> Jagjit Singh has seen.
>  
> The only exception is ARR's Tehzeeb, which had 3 wonderful Ghazals, that 
> reaffirmed my faith in ARR that he can compose good ghazals too. But 
> tell me, How many people know about Tehzeeb, because it is not a great 
> audio-hit commercially, for us to see it in all TV channels. And also, 
> How many Tehzeebs did ARR do after that? None. I am sure that Jagjit 
> Singh never got to listen to this album.
>  
> Just that ARR is not getting film-makers who insist on such rich 
> ghazals. Whatever might be reason, Jagjit has a point though. Lets look 
> at it objectivistically, instead of just posting negative comments on 
> Jagjit, without verifying whether he has a valid point or not.
> Regards
> /*Kamal Aakarsh Vishnubhotla.*/
> *//* 
> */http://kamal-aakarsh.blogspot.com  /*
>  
> 
> 
> --- On *Wed, 1/28/09, gut but //* wrote:
> 
> From: gut but 
> Subject: Re: [arr] Re: Jagjit Singh - What does Rahman know about
> ghazals
> To: arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 11:52 AM
> 
> I think Jagit singh is not happy about the fame and attention that
> rahman is getting at the moment !
> we need to understand that rahman is not sticking to particular kind
> of music, he goes according to
> the taste of contemporary world and theme of movie.
> 
> 
> 
> *From:* jsrwm 
> *To:* arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 27 January, 2009 23:22:32
> *Subject:* [arr] Re: Jagjit Singh - What does Rahman know about ghazals
> 
> Another story of "Oops this is a sour grape" begins..
> 
> --- In arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com
> , Anil Nair  ...> wrote:
>  >
>  > Didn't expect Jagjit Singh to say this ...or maybe its just yet again
> the
>  > "media monster" at work
>  >
>  > -A
>  >
>  > http://movies. indiainfo. com/2009/ 01/28/0

Re: [arr] Re: Jagjit Singh - What does Rahman know about ghazals - My thoughts

[Gomzy™]

It absolutely is. And an awesome ghazal.

On 1/28/09, nivensamy  wrote:
>
>   Just wondering... is 'Aye hairathe' - Guru, a ghazhal??
>
> Niven
>
> --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com ,
> Aakarsh  wrote:
> >
> > With all due respects to both, Jagjit Singh and also ARR, let us
> first note that it is an opinion and not necessarily a case of
> mud-slinging.
> > �
> > And he was referring specifically to 'Ghazals' alone. We must note
> that of Jagjit Singh did not admire ARR, he would not have agreed to
> be part of 'Jan Gan Man' by ARR.
> > �
> > So, lets not blow it out of proportion.
> > �
> > Now, coming to ghazals, if one really listens to Ghazals, say the
> ones that were composed in films, what jagjit Singh said is absolutely
> right. We dont have ghazals anymore and lets accept it, even ARR did
> not compose many.
> > �
> > ARR is music-driven composer and many lyricists, including Gulzar,
> agreed that he gets to write lyrics for the tunes already set into
> music. and later they work around it.
> > �
> >
> > In Ghazals, the words are born first and then music is set to the words.
> > Also, the composer has a very indepth acumen about the language,
> words, vocabulary, usage etc, while composing Ghazals. More
> importantly urdu.
> > �
> > For both these points, ARR actually does not fit in.��So, he has a
> point. I am not saying that ARR is incapable of composing tunes for
> lyrics. Neither i am saying that ARR lacks lyrical sense. Just that he
> has recently started learning Hindi/urdu and that too out of the songs
> he composed. So, it is not that he speaks/converses in Hindi/urdu to
> have a grasp/mastery over the language to understand the nuances and
> then set music accordingly so that certain words outshine the music,
> as the ghazals demand that.
> > �
> > Jagjit Singh is a seasoned ghazal singer and he has seen the length
> and breadth of this field called 'Ghazals', having been one of the
> great singers himself. So, from his angle and point of view, it is
> natural for him to feel so. Rahman songs have good lyrics for sure,
> but they are definitely not comparable to the ones in Ghazals or the
> world which Jagjit Singh has seen.
> > �
> > The only exception is ARR's Tehzeeb, which had 3 wonderful Ghazals,
> that reaffirmed my faith in ARR that he can compose good ghazals too.
> But tell me, How many people know about Tehzeeb, because it is not a
> great audio-hit commercially, for us to see it in all TV channels. And
> also, How many Tehzeebs did ARR do after that? None. I am sure that
> Jagjit Singh never got to listen to this album.
> > �
> > Just that ARR is not getting film-makers who insist on such rich
> ghazals. Whatever might be reason, Jagjit has a point though. Lets
> look at it objectivistically, instead of just posting negative
> comments on Jagjit, without verifying whether he has a valid point or not.
> >
> >
> > Regards
> > Kamal Aakarsh Vishnubhotla.
> > �
> > http://kamal-aakarsh.blogspot.com
> > �
> >
> > --- On Wed, 1/28/09, gut but  wrote:
> >
> > From: gut but 
> > Subject: Re: [arr] Re: Jagjit Singh - What does Rahman know about
> ghazals
> > To: arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com 
> > Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 11:52 AM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I think Jagit singh is not happy about the fame and attention that
> rahman is getting at the moment !
> > we need to understand that rahman is not sticking to particular kind
> of music, he goes according to
> > the taste of contemporary world and theme of movie.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: jsrwm 
> > To: arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com
> > Sent: Tuesday, 27 January, 2009 23:22:32
> > Subject: [arr] Re: Jagjit Singh - What does Rahman know about ghazals
> >
> >
> >
> > Another story of "Oops this is a sour grape" begins..
> >
> > --- In arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com, Anil Nair 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Didn't expect Jagjit Singh to say this ...or maybe its just yet again
> > the
> > > "media monster" at work
> > >
> > > -A
> > >
> > > http://movies. indiainfo. com/2009/ 01/28/0901280633 _gazals.html
> > >
> > > What does Rahman know about ghazals?Wednesday, January 28, 2009 06:31
> > [IST]
> > >
> > > Mumbai: DNA
> > ,
> > > in association with Rotary Club of Hiranandani Estate, Thane, brings
> > on
> > > stage the legendary ghazal maestro to recreate the magic of the
> > > music _gazals.html#>
> > > form.
> > > On the eve of Jagjit Singh Live in
> > >
> > Concert _gazals.html#>
> > > (at
> > > the Shanmukhananda Auditorium), the veteran exponent of ghazals rues
> > the end
> > > of their era in Hindi films.
> > >
> > > Jagjit is not singing any film songs currently because he feels there
> > is a
> > > lack of taste on the part of today's filmmakers and music directors.
> > "They
> > > don't know what ghazals

[arr] Re: Jagjit Singh - What does Rahman know about ghazals - My thoughts

[: Avinash :]

Cool man! Nice detailed reply for Jagjit Saab!

Jagjitji should aware that there's no stone unturned by ARR in 
music. He has composed some of difficult Ghazal poems in Tehzeeb. 
Sabaq aisa, Na shiqwa hota & mujhpe toofan uthaye are among my 
favourite ARR songs...

My suggestion is, he should approch ARR with his Ghazals, so they 
can be hit! (just kidding :) )





--- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, Aakarsh  wrote:
>
> With all due respects to both, Jagjit Singh and also ARR, let us 
first note that it is an opinion and not necessarily a case of mud-
slinging.
>  
> And he was referring specifically to 'Ghazals' alone. We must note 
that of Jagjit Singh did not admire ARR, he would not have agreed to 
be part of 'Jan Gan Man' by ARR. 
>  
> So, lets not blow it out of proportion.
>  
> Now, coming to ghazals, if one really listens to Ghazals, say the 
ones that were composed in films, what jagjit Singh said is 
absolutely right. We dont have ghazals anymore and lets accept it, 
even ARR did not compose many. 
>  
> ARR is music-driven composer and many lyricists, including Gulzar, 
agreed that he gets to write lyrics for the tunes already set into 
music. and later they work around it.
>  
> 
> In Ghazals, the words are born first and then music is set to the 
words.
> Also, the composer has a very indepth acumen about the language, 
words, vocabulary, usage etc, while composing Ghazals. More 
importantly urdu.
>  
> For both these points, ARR actually does not fit in.  So, he has a 
point. I am not saying that ARR is incapable of composing tunes for 
lyrics. Neither i am saying that ARR lacks lyrical sense. Just that 
he has recently started learning Hindi/urdu and that too out of the 
songs he composed. So, it is not that he speaks/converses in 
Hindi/urdu to have a grasp/mastery over the language to understand 
the nuances and then set music accordingly so that certain words 
outshine the music, as the ghazals demand that.
>  
> Jagjit Singh is a seasoned ghazal singer and he has seen the 
length and breadth of this field called 'Ghazals', having been one 
of the great singers himself. So, from his angle and point of view, 
it is natural for him to feel so. Rahman songs have good lyrics for 
sure, but they are definitely not comparable to the ones in Ghazals 
or the world which Jagjit Singh has seen.
>  
> The only exception is ARR's Tehzeeb, which had 3 wonderful 
Ghazals, that reaffirmed my faith in ARR that he can compose good 
ghazals too. But tell me, How many people know about Tehzeeb, 
because it is not a great audio-hit commercially, for us to see it 
in all TV channels. And also, How many Tehzeebs did ARR do after 
that? None. I am sure that Jagjit Singh never got to listen to this 
album.
>  
> Just that ARR is not getting film-makers who insist on such rich 
ghazals. Whatever might be reason, Jagjit has a point though. Lets 
look at it objectivistically, instead of just posting negative 
comments on Jagjit, without verifying whether he has a valid point 
or not.
> 
> 
> Regards
> Kamal Aakarsh Vishnubhotla.
>  
> http://kamal-aakarsh.blogspot.com 
>  
> 
> --- On Wed, 1/28/09, gut but  wrote:
> 
> From: gut but 
> Subject: Re: [arr] Re: Jagjit Singh - What does Rahman know about 
ghazals
> To: arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 11:52 AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think Jagit singh is not happy about the fame and attention that 
rahman is getting at the moment ! 
> we need to understand that rahman is not sticking to particular 
kind of music, he goes according to
> the taste of contemporary world and theme of movie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: jsrwm 
> To: arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Tuesday, 27 January, 2009 23:22:32
> Subject: [arr] Re: Jagjit Singh - What does Rahman know about 
ghazals
> 
> 
> 
> Another story of "Oops this is a sour grape" begins..
> 
> --- In arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com, Anil Nair 
 wrote:
> >
> > Didn't expect Jagjit Singh to say this ...or maybe its just yet 
again
> the
> > "media monster" at work
> >
> > -A
> >
> > http://movies. indiainfo. com/2009/ 01/28/0901280633 _gazals.html
> >
> > What does Rahman know about ghazals?Wednesday, January 28, 2009 
06:31
> [IST]
> >
> > Mumbai: DNA
> ,
> > in association with Rotary Club of Hiranandani Estate, Thane, 
brings
> on
> > stage the legendary ghazal maestro to recreate the magic of the
> > music
> > form.
> > On the eve of Jagjit Singh Live in
> >
> Concert
> > (at
> > the Shanmukhananda Auditorium), the veteran exponent of ghazals 
rues
> the end
> > of their era in Hindi films.
> >
> > Jagjit is not singing any film songs currently because he feels 
there
> is a
> > lack of taste on the part of today's filmmakers and music 
directors.
> "They
> > don't know what ghaz

Re: [arr] Re: Jagjit Singh - What does Rahman know about ghazals - My thoughts

[|| V i s h w e s h ||]

Highly uncalled for comments by Jagjit Singh, if all this is true...

"What does AR Rahman know about ghazals? He will never use a ghazal in his 
films. All they do is pick up tunes from the West." 

I still can't believe that Jagjit Singh will say such things about anyone. But 
if it is true then with due respect to your opinion, Aakarsh, saying such 
baseless things publically, about one of most beloved & highly respected 
persons of India today, is the last thing we fans expect from a well respected 
& senior person like Jagjit Singh. [Yes, I am a fan of his!]

" The search is more important than the destination "  - a r rahman -

--- On Wed, 28/1/09, Aakarsh  wrote:
From: Aakarsh 
Subject: Re: [arr] Re: Jagjit Singh - What does Rahman know about ghazals - My 
thoughts
To: arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, 28 January, 2009, 1:15 PM











With all due respects to both, Jagjit Singh and also ARR, let us 
first note that it is an opinion and not necessarily a case of mud-slinging.
 
And he was referring specifically to 'Ghazals' alone. We must note that of 
Jagjit Singh did not admire ARR, he would not have agreed to be part of 'Jan 
Gan Man' by ARR. 
 
So, lets not blow it out of proportion.
 
Now, coming to ghazals, if one really listens to Ghazals, say the ones that 
were composed in films, what jagjit Singh said is absolutely right. We dont 
have ghazals anymore and lets accept it, even ARR did not compose many. 
 
ARR is music-driven composer and many lyricists, including Gulzar, agreed that 
he gets to write lyrics for the tunes already set into music. and later they 
work around it.
 

In Ghazals, the words are born first and then music is set to the words.
Also, the composer has a very indepth acumen about the language, words, 
vocabulary, usage etc, while composing Ghazals. More importantly urdu.
 
For both these points, ARR actually does not fit in.  So, he has a point. I am 
not saying that ARR is incapable of composing tunes for lyrics. Neither i am 
saying that ARR lacks lyrical sense. Just that he has recently started learning 
Hindi/urdu and that too out of the songs he composed. So, it is not that he 
speaks/converses in Hindi/urdu to have a grasp/mastery over the language to 
understand the nuances and then set music accordingly so that certain words 
outshine the music, as the ghazals demand that.
 
Jagjit Singh is a seasoned ghazal singer and he has seen the length and breadth 
of this field called 'Ghazals', having been one of the great singers himself. 
So, from his angle and point of view, it is natural for him to feel so. Rahman 
songs have good lyrics for sure, but they are definitely not comparable to the 
ones in Ghazals or the world which Jagjit Singh has seen.
 
The only exception is ARR's Tehzeeb, which had 3 wonderful Ghazals, that 
reaffirmed my faith in ARR that he can compose good ghazals too. But tell me, 
How many people know about Tehzeeb, because it is not a great audio-hit 
commercially, for us to see it in all TV channels. And also, How many Tehzeebs 
did ARR do after that? None. I am sure that Jagjit Singh never got to listen to 
this album.
 
Just that ARR is not getting film-makers who insist on such rich ghazals. 
Whatever might be reason, Jagjit has a point though. Lets look at it 
objectivistically, instead of just posting negative comments on Jagjit, without 
verifying whether he has a valid point or not.


Regards
Kamal Aakarsh Vishnubhotla.
 

  
  
  
  




 




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[arr] Re: Jagjit Singh - What does Rahman know about ghazals - My thoughts

[nivensamy]

Just wondering... is 'Aye hairathe' - Guru, a ghazhal??

Niven


--- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, Aakarsh  wrote:
>
> With all due respects to both, Jagjit Singh and also ARR, let us
first note that it is an opinion and not necessarily a case of
mud-slinging.
> �
> And he was referring specifically to 'Ghazals' alone. We must note
that of Jagjit Singh did not admire ARR, he would not have agreed to
be part of 'Jan Gan Man' by ARR. 
> �
> So, lets not blow it out of proportion.
> �
> Now, coming to ghazals, if one really listens to Ghazals, say the
ones that were composed in films, what jagjit Singh said is absolutely
right. We dont have ghazals anymore and lets accept it, even ARR did
not compose many. 
> �
> ARR is music-driven composer and many lyricists, including Gulzar,
agreed that he gets to write lyrics for the tunes already set into
music. and later they work around it.
> �
> 
> In Ghazals, the words are born first and then music is set to the words.
> Also, the composer has a very indepth acumen about the language,
words, vocabulary, usage etc, while composing Ghazals. More
importantly urdu.
> �
> For both these points, ARR actually does not fit in.��So, he has a
point. I am not saying that ARR is incapable of composing tunes for
lyrics. Neither i am saying that ARR lacks lyrical sense. Just that he
has recently started learning Hindi/urdu and that too out of the songs
he composed. So, it is not that he speaks/converses in Hindi/urdu to
have a grasp/mastery over the language to understand the nuances and
then set music accordingly so that certain words outshine the music,
as the ghazals demand that.
> �
> Jagjit Singh is a seasoned ghazal singer and he has seen the length
and breadth of this field called 'Ghazals', having been one of the
great singers himself. So, from his angle and point of view, it is
natural for him to feel so. Rahman songs have good lyrics for sure,
but they are definitely not comparable to the ones in Ghazals or the
world which Jagjit Singh has seen.
> �
> The only exception is ARR's Tehzeeb, which had 3 wonderful Ghazals,
that reaffirmed my faith in ARR that he can compose good ghazals too.
But tell me, How many people know about Tehzeeb, because it is not a
great audio-hit commercially, for us to see it in all TV channels. And
also, How many Tehzeebs did ARR do after that? None. I am sure that
Jagjit Singh never got to listen to this album.
> �
> Just that ARR is not getting film-makers who insist on such rich
ghazals. Whatever might be reason, Jagjit has a point though. Lets
look at it objectivistically, instead of just posting negative
comments on Jagjit, without verifying whether he has a valid point or not.
> 
> 
> Regards
> Kamal Aakarsh Vishnubhotla.
> �
> http://kamal-aakarsh.blogspot.com 
> �
> 
> --- On Wed, 1/28/09, gut but  wrote:
> 
> From: gut but 
> Subject: Re: [arr] Re: Jagjit Singh - What does Rahman know about
ghazals
> To: arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 11:52 AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think Jagit singh is not happy about the fame and attention that
rahman is getting at the moment ! 
> we need to understand that rahman is not sticking to particular kind
of music, he goes according to
> the taste of contemporary world and theme of movie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: jsrwm 
> To: arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Tuesday, 27 January, 2009 23:22:32
> Subject: [arr] Re: Jagjit Singh - What does Rahman know about ghazals
> 
> 
> 
> Another story of "Oops this is a sour grape" begins..
> 
> --- In arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com, Anil Nair 
wrote:
> >
> > Didn't expect Jagjit Singh to say this ...or maybe its just yet again
> the
> > "media monster" at work
> >
> > -A
> >
> > http://movies. indiainfo. com/2009/ 01/28/0901280633 _gazals.html
> >
> > What does Rahman know about ghazals?Wednesday, January 28, 2009 06:31
> [IST]
> >
> > Mumbai: DNA
> ,
> > in association with Rotary Club of Hiranandani Estate, Thane, brings
> on
> > stage the legendary ghazal maestro to recreate the magic of the
> > music
> > form.
> > On the eve of Jagjit Singh Live in
> >
> Concert
> > (at
> > the Shanmukhananda Auditorium), the veteran exponent of ghazals rues
> the end
> > of their era in Hindi films.
> >
> > Jagjit is not singing any film songs currently because he feels there
> is a
> > lack of taste on the part of today's filmmakers and music directors.
> "They
> > don't know what ghazals are all about and they lack good taste in
> music.
> > What does AR Rahman know about ghazals? He will never use a ghazal in
> his
> > films. All they do is pick up tunes from the West," he says.
> >
> > He criticises contemporary music directors for ruining the Indianness
> of
> > sound. "Earlier, in the 60s and 70s, 90%

Re: [arr] Re: Jagjit Singh - What does Rahman know about ghazals - My thoughts

[Vinayakam Murugan]

Good point, Aakarsh
In our anxiety to glorify ARR, we should be careful not to demean other
artists.
Warm Regards
~~~
Vinayak

theregoesanotherday.blogspot.com


On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 11:45 PM, Aakarsh  wrote:

>   With all due respects to both, Jagjit Singh and also ARR, let us first
> note that it is an opinion and not necessarily a case of mud-slinging.
>
> And he was referring specifically to 'Ghazals' alone. We must note that of
> Jagjit Singh did not admire ARR, he would not have agreed to be part of 'Jan
> Gan Man' by ARR.
>
> So, lets not blow it out of proportion.
>
> Now, coming to ghazals, if one really listens to Ghazals, say the ones that
> were composed in films, what jagjit Singh said is absolutely right. We dont
> have ghazals anymore and lets accept it, even ARR did not compose many.
>
> ARR is music-driven composer and many lyricists, including Gulzar, agreed
> that he gets to write lyrics for the tunes already set into music. and later
> they work around it.
>
>
>- In Ghazals, the words are born first and then music is set to the
>words.
>- Also, the composer has a very indepth acumen about the language,
>words, vocabulary, usage etc, while composing Ghazals. More importantly
>urdu.
>
>
> For both these points, ARR actually does not fit in.  So, he has a point. I
> am not saying that ARR is incapable of composing tunes for lyrics. Neither i
> am saying that ARR lacks lyrical sense. Just that he has recently started
> learning Hindi/urdu and that too out of the songs he composed. So, it is not
> that he speaks/converses in Hindi/urdu to have a grasp/mastery over the
> language to understand the nuances and then set music accordingly so that
> certain words outshine the music, as the ghazals demand that.
>
> Jagjit Singh is a seasoned ghazal singer and he has seen the length and
> breadth of this field called 'Ghazals', having been one of the great singers
> himself. So, from his angle and point of view, it is natural for him to feel
> so. Rahman songs have good lyrics for sure, but they are definitely not
> comparable to the ones in Ghazals or the world which Jagjit Singh has seen.
>
> The only exception is ARR's Tehzeeb, which had 3 wonderful Ghazals, that
> reaffirmed my faith in ARR that he can compose good ghazals too. But tell
> me, How many people know about Tehzeeb, because it is not a great audio-hit
> commercially, for us to see it in all TV channels. And also, How many
> Tehzeebs did ARR do after that? None. I am sure that Jagjit Singh never got
> to listen to this album.
>
> Just that ARR is not getting film-makers who insist on such rich ghazals.
> Whatever might be reason, Jagjit has a point though. Lets look at it
> objectivistically, instead of just posting negative comments on Jagjit,
> without verifying whether he has a valid point or not.
>  Regards
> *Kamal Aakarsh Vishnubhotla.*
> **
> *http://kamal-aakarsh.blogspot.com *
>
>
>
> --- On *Wed, 1/28/09, gut but * wrote:
>
> From: gut but 
> Subject: Re: [arr] Re: Jagjit Singh - What does Rahman know about ghazals
> To: arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 11:52 AM
>
>   I think Jagit singh is not happy about the fame and attention that
> rahman is getting at the moment !
> we need to understand that rahman is not sticking to particular kind of
> music, he goes according to
> the taste of contemporary world and theme of movie.
>
>
>  --
> *From:* jsrwm 
> *To:* arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 27 January, 2009 23:22:32
> *Subject:* [arr] Re: Jagjit Singh - What does Rahman know about ghazals
>
>  Another story of "Oops this is a sour grape" begins..
>
> --- In arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com ,
> Anil Nair  wrote:
> >
> > Didn't expect Jagjit Singh to say this ...or maybe its just yet again
> the
> > "media monster" at work
> >
> > -A
> >
> > http://movies. indiainfo. com/2009/ 01/28/0901280633 
> > _gazals.html
> >
> > What does Rahman know about ghazals?Wednesday, January 28, 2009 06:31
> [IST]
> >
> > Mumbai: DNA
>  _gazals.html#
> >,
> > in association with Rotary Club of Hiranandani Estate, Thane, brings
> on
> > stage the legendary ghazal maestro to recreate the magic of the
> > music > _gazals.html#
> >
> > form.
> > On the eve of Jagjit Singh Live in
> >
> Concert _gazals.html#
> >
> > (at
> > the Shanmukhananda Auditorium), the veteran exponent of ghazals rues
> the end
> > of their era in Hindi films.
> >
> > Jagjit is not singing any film songs currently because he feels there
> is a
> > lack

Re: [arr] Re: Jagjit Singh - What does Rahman know about ghazals - My thoughts

[Aakarsh]

With all due respects to both, Jagjit Singh and also ARR, let us first note 
that it is an opinion and not necessarily a case of mud-slinging.
 
And he was referring specifically to 'Ghazals' alone. We must note that of 
Jagjit Singh did not admire ARR, he would not have agreed to be part of 'Jan 
Gan Man' by ARR. 
 
So, lets not blow it out of proportion.
 
Now, coming to ghazals, if one really listens to Ghazals, say the ones that 
were composed in films, what jagjit Singh said is absolutely right. We dont 
have ghazals anymore and lets accept it, even ARR did not compose many. 
 
ARR is music-driven composer and many lyricists, including Gulzar, agreed that 
he gets to write lyrics for the tunes already set into music. and later they 
work around it.
 

In Ghazals, the words are born first and then music is set to the words.
Also, the composer has a very indepth acumen about the language, words, 
vocabulary, usage etc, while composing Ghazals. More importantly urdu.
 
For both these points, ARR actually does not fit in.  So, he has a point. I am 
not saying that ARR is incapable of composing tunes for lyrics. Neither i am 
saying that ARR lacks lyrical sense. Just that he has recently started learning 
Hindi/urdu and that too out of the songs he composed. So, it is not that he 
speaks/converses in Hindi/urdu to have a grasp/mastery over the language to 
understand the nuances and then set music accordingly so that certain words 
outshine the music, as the ghazals demand that.
 
Jagjit Singh is a seasoned ghazal singer and he has seen the length and breadth 
of this field called 'Ghazals', having been one of the great singers himself. 
So, from his angle and point of view, it is natural for him to feel so. Rahman 
songs have good lyrics for sure, but they are definitely not comparable to the 
ones in Ghazals or the world which Jagjit Singh has seen.
 
The only exception is ARR's Tehzeeb, which had 3 wonderful Ghazals, that 
reaffirmed my faith in ARR that he can compose good ghazals too. But tell me, 
How many people know about Tehzeeb, because it is not a great audio-hit 
commercially, for us to see it in all TV channels. And also, How many Tehzeebs 
did ARR do after that? None. I am sure that Jagjit Singh never got to listen to 
this album.
 
Just that ARR is not getting film-makers who insist on such rich ghazals. 
Whatever might be reason, Jagjit has a point though. Lets look at it 
objectivistically, instead of just posting negative comments on Jagjit, without 
verifying whether he has a valid point or not.


Regards
Kamal Aakarsh Vishnubhotla.
 
http://kamal-aakarsh.blogspot.com 
 

--- On Wed, 1/28/09, gut but  wrote:

From: gut but 
Subject: Re: [arr] Re: Jagjit Singh - What does Rahman know about ghazals
To: arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 11:52 AM








I think Jagit singh is not happy about the fame and attention that rahman is 
getting at the moment ! 
we need to understand that rahman is not sticking to particular kind of music, 
he goes according to
the taste of contemporary world and theme of movie.






From: jsrwm 
To: arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Tuesday, 27 January, 2009 23:22:32
Subject: [arr] Re: Jagjit Singh - What does Rahman know about ghazals



Another story of "Oops this is a sour grape" begins..

--- In arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com, Anil Nair  wrote:
>
> Didn't expect Jagjit Singh to say this ...or maybe its just yet again
the
> "media monster" at work
>
> -A
>
> http://movies. indiainfo. com/2009/ 01/28/0901280633 _gazals.html
>
> What does Rahman know about ghazals?Wednesday, January 28, 2009 06:31
[IST]
>
> Mumbai: DNA
,
> in association with Rotary Club of Hiranandani Estate, Thane, brings
on
> stage the legendary ghazal maestro to recreate the magic of the
> music
> form.
> On the eve of Jagjit Singh Live in
>
Concert
> (at
> the Shanmukhananda Auditorium), the veteran exponent of ghazals rues
the end
> of their era in Hindi films.
>
> Jagjit is not singing any film songs currently because he feels there
is a
> lack of taste on the part of today's filmmakers and music directors.
"They
> don't know what ghazals are all about and they lack good taste in
music.
> What does AR Rahman know about ghazals? He will never use a ghazal in
his
> films. All they do is pick up tunes from the West," he says.
>
> He criticises contemporary music directors for ruining the Indianness
of
> sound. "Earlier, in the 60s and 70s, 90% of the music was based on the
> ghazal. Today, there's no poetry phrasing, it's all Western and the
language
> is tapori -- a mix of English and Hindi. What kind of lyrics are Pappu
> can't dance

> saala?"
>
> Yet the popularity of the form endures. He